Five, four, three, two, one, zero. Welcome to
the show, people. Welcome to the show. Eat my
shorts. So here is to conversation. Tranquility
base here. Vehicle has landed. Welcome to the
Cash Exchange. What up? All right, so your three
things for today. What do deep dives into random
IMDBs, filling digital shopping carts, and reading
clickbait political articles have in common?
That statement was a lot wordier than I, a lot
harder to say than I thought it would be. They
can keep you occupied for quite some time. This
is true. That is essentially what I had for today.
So they are all things that we do to kill time
online. Nice. I definitely have my experience
with that and feel like this is a conversation
that I give a lot to. I have a lot of really
bad habits when it comes to the internet, but
I think one of my most personally annoying habits
when it comes to the internet is that I can't
watch a show or a movie and not end up on IMDb
for someone or something because I recognize
that guy from something and I'm going to figure
out what it is. And then after that, you see
that he was in this other thing. Who did he play
in that thing? And then next thing you know,
you're... The rabbit hole is endless. Your movie
is over and you're just sitting on the up next
screen and you didn't even watch any of what
you set out to watch. Yeah, realistically, I
could probably tell you anyone's bacon number.
Do you remember the bacon number? Degrees of
separation from bacon? Yeah. I had a phase where
I was trying to, I don't know Kevin Bacon's filmography
well enough to really play that game. But I think
if I put some time behind it, I could probably
figure out anyone's Bacon number. He definitely.
He's been in some stuff. He's been around. He's
been around the block and still going strong.
I also have a habit. So these are all very personal
to me. There are things that I wish I didn't
do online because I have a really bad habit of
window shopping online. So I'll just like fill
a cart and then decide that I don't actually
need to go shopping. Which is probably for the
best. Abandon my cart. Yeah. That was absolutely
for the best. And then do you get the message
later on saying, hey, this stuff's still in your
cart. Are you ready to pull the trigger on it?
I get a notification from Amazon every single
day. Hey, are you still looking at? No, I was
a different person then. I'm not so big into
the clickbaity political articles now because
I get enough of that when I'm not actively seeking
it out. There have definitely been a couple recently
that have caught me. I don't want to get into
a political conversation, but everything is bananas
right now. There's a lot of clickbait to be found.
That is a very, very... kid glove way of saying
it that everything is bananas right now everything
is bananas right now yeah i don't want to i think
that's the perfect way to phrase it yeah i mean
bananas we don't know what's coming down the
line so uh just give it some time and see how
everything shakes out all right and speaking
of politics and the internet today's topic is
doom scrolling Don't think that I had to edit
anything because of the context of the TikTok
ban, but I will say that I did write all of this
when I thought it was still going to be banned.
I'm not 100 % sure why I thought it was going
to hold, but it lasted a total of about 10 hours.
Maybe, maybe, yeah. Maybe 12. And if you listen
to our, what episode was that? Which one are
we? The last one, the one last night. Parodies.
Parodies. If you listen to our parodies, then
you, you lucky, lucky person, get to hear my
live reaction to realizing that I no longer have
access to TikTok. Yeah, he, in case you didn't
listen to that one, he thought that it was going
to be canceled the next day. Or at least that
it would happen at midnight, but we are in the
central time zone and not the eastern, which
is where it actually... I actually got shut down.
So I went through a semi -spiral, but you know
what? I came through, and then I wasn't even
the one to recognize that it was back up and
running. That was the person across the table
from me. I'm not proud of it, but I instinctively
picked up my phone and was going to doom scroll
through TikTok, and it worked. It wasn't supposed
to, but it did. And then she had the audacity
to try to rub it in my face. Oh, I got access
to TikTok. I don't think I was rubbing it in
your face. You didn't say, hey, is your TikTok
working? It was, hey, I got access to TikTok,
and then you showed me your phone. And then you
kind of in turn picked up your phone and checked
if you also had TikTok. I forced closed TikTok
on my phone and then opened it back up, and then
I did too, and that took all the wind out of
your sails. I thought I was special. Well. It's
a damn shame. Welcome to 2025. Being special
isn't enough anymore. Therefore, no one is. Exactly.
I'm not getting thrown into an existential crisis
this early on. So anyway, doomscrolling. Doomscrolling.
So I was trying to figure out what the kind of
history of doomscrolling is and where that kind
of term originated. Because in my head, it would
have started whenever social media did. So I
wasn't on MySpace, so I don't know. Kind of what
that interface looked like, if that was something
that you could really scroll on. Well, for my
real old folks, there's Xanga. X -A -N -G -A.
What the hell is that? That was MySpace before
MySpace was MySpace. I thought, was it before
Friendster? Not sure. But I know that you could,
like, it's pretty much just like making your
own webpage. But it was a precursor to you could
do everything that you could do on Facebook or
Instagram or anything like that today. Okay.
So I thought that doom scrolling would have started
somewhere around there. That would make sense,
yeah. If it didn't start with MySpace, that it
at least started with Vine, the short form video
scrollable thing. But in kind of researching
this episode, the first time that I found that
term used was during the pandemic. Which means
that TikTok was kind of the catalyst for the
concept of doom scrolling. Whenever TikTok started
taking off, you definitely had all these people
saying, well, this is a Chinese spying app and
all this other stuff. But once that subsided,
then you were left with the people saying, well,
this is just brain rot and this is all your stuff.
And this is just going to drop our kids even
farther down. Especially when you read this stuff
about the... the Chinese side of it, the side
that actually owns it, and them having very strict
content restrictions and time limits on their
end, but not on ours. Yeah. I will say that whenever
I originally downloaded TikTok, it was because
it was during the pandemic and I was in a mental
hole. And I do think that it was, it's still
95 % at least brain rot. I don't think that there
are necessarily enough good and useful things
on the app for the amount of time that I spend
on it to make sense. So if I were to just use
it for, like, I needed to search a recipe or
a tutorial on how to crochet a thing, which is
what I'm working on now. I've picked up a lot
of hobbies and learned a lot of cool things because
of TikTok. No, I mean, there's definitely a lot
of good qualities that have come from the app,
but then... There is also a plethora of things
that you don't want that have also come from
it. Yeah. When did you download TikTok? I was
a late adopter. I bought into all the brain rot
and all that stuff. And then one day it was just,
you know, if you can't beat them, join them.
And that's when it ended up happening. Yeah.
Well, I think that... So much of the reputation
for TikTok was that it was like these middle
schoolers dancing. So at a certain age, it feels
like it's something that you're not supposed
to be a part of. I definitely thought that whenever
I opened it the first time was I don't want to
be on an app where it's just like 15 -year -olds
dancing to whatever 15 -year -olds listen to.
Well, that's how it started. It started out as
a dance app. And that's where one of the bigger
ones that came out of it was Charlie. D 'Amelio
and all of her peeps. Still blows my mind that
they got a Hulu series. Yeah, I mean, all you
need is to ride that 15 seconds of fame, and
then if you can milk it long enough to get a
reality show, then you're pretty well set. Or
a crypto. Shout out to whatever the actual name
of the hot two -year -old girl is. Sure, yeah.
Spit on that thing. Insane thing to be known
for. Insane thing to put your life savings into.
Absolutely. Insane all the way around. Insane
all the way around, yeah. So is there, how much
time would you say that you spend on TikTok per
week? Too much. Yeah? With my job, I have a lot
of downtime in between having to do things. And
so... Let's just take a gander real quick and
find out. I forgot that there's a screen time
feature on your phone. Just so we know. Welcome
back. Thanks for your patience and support. As
a result of President Trump's efforts, TikTok
is back in the U .S. You can continue to create,
share, and discover all the things you love on
TikTok. Isn't he still former President Trump
until tomorrow? it should be president elect
trump yeah but hey and we got hd back that was
another thing that happened that was the first
thing i noticed whenever tiktok whenever you
informed me that tiktok was back is that everything
looked like it was coming off a tv from the 90s
yeah but hey it looks like now we got a full
resolution back so yeah i mean a lot of people
are leaning really hard into the retro thing
so if they did go back to the 90s television
static quality then I don't think it'd be the
worst thing yeah I'd spend less time on it I'm
going to release these numbers but I'm not going
to be alone so you also have to release your
numbers okay so for the week of January 12th
to January 18th oh okay well this is better than
I thought it would be so for that seven day span
a total of Five hours and 17 minutes. Five hours
and seven minutes during the day and only 10
minutes at night. What constitutes nighttime?
Between 6 p .m. and 6 a .m., so that makes sense.
Are we about to find out that you need an intervention?
Yes. I spend about an hour on it per day. I mean...
Which is not... You're doing a lot of transitional
stuff right now, so you've got a lot of... A
lot of free time in between getting things settled
here. So I think that maybe you should have to
go back. I don't know what. Go back two months.
Two months? Two months. Let's see how far back
it goes. And I'll do the same. I'll go back two
months. Okay, you can only go back like a month.
The farthest I can go back is December 29th to
January 4th. And that was seven hours and 48
minutes. I can't, yeah, mine doesn't get granular
enough to give me specifics too far back. But
I will say that now that TikTok was gone for
a very short amount of time and I realized how
many times I just opened it instinctually, that
that's definitely a thing I want to be conscious
of, is that I doom -scrolled a lot on TikTok,
especially in the sense that, like, I was mentioning,
a little bit ago that I had this, like, I was
watching the band play as the ship went down
in the Titanic. I was watching all of these people
make their, like, last TikTok videos and all
of the brands and stuff, all the influencers
doing the family guy sound that, like, since
we're all about to die, I didn't care for the
godfather. And just admitting this out -of -pocket
stuff that people got monetized for. Mm -hmm.
They were like, actually, I've been deceiving
you for years. And it grosses me out now that
TikTok is actually back. So I don't know if it's
going to happen because I am aware of my own
willpower and also the fact that I have a lot
of free time on my hands right now. But I would
like to delete TikTok. It's not good for my psyche.
I found some cool stuff on it. You're saying
that this whole experience losing TikTok was
a reset in your head about... what maybe your
priorities need to be moving forward yes yeah
okay see see so if trump hadn't have brought
it back then you wouldn't have that perspective
now that you do have it back you would just be
missing it but if i didn't have it i would also
learn to adjust without it you just move on to
something else sure yeah So I had a question
on the research for this episode that I was going
to ask you, which is a little bit different now
that we do have TikTok back. I was going to ask
you what you thought was going to replace TikTok
in terms of doom scrolling, or if there would
be a replacement, or if people were actually
going to spend a little bit less time on their
phones. I think that void would probably be filled
up pretty quickly. People might be more inclined
to go back to like a YouTube short. type of thing
okay I don't think that that platform is very
conducive to the the way that TikTok operates
because it's not its own thing it's you would
probably get Google to develop YouTube shorts
and split it off into its own thing to where
it was like because I'm sure they would love
that but they know that TikTok is such a behemoth
that they can't even attempt to come close. And
that's why YouTube Shorts is kind of like a running
joke right now. Yeah. Like you can get a lot
more views on someone just randomly scrolling
if that's all they're there to do. If you go
on TikTok, you're just there to scroll through
stuff. Yeah. It's not likely that you, sometimes
I do, sometimes I go to look for something that
I heard about specifically. If there is like
a little blurb I heard somewhere, then I'm going
to go to TikTok to see if I can just get a snippet
of whatever that story is or whatever I heard
and get confirmation on it. But I'm not going
to YouTube, especially because I don't really
use YouTube on my phone. If I do, it's because
I'm doing something else and my phone is just
what happens to be right there. So I'm watching
a video on it, but I'm not touching my phone.
I'm not scrolling through stuff. And so I think
that if Google had had the opportunity to take
YouTube shorts or even create its own thing and
make it the new TikTok, then I think that this
whole TikTok thing wouldn't have taken place.
But, you know, it's funny because we're so worried
about Chinese spies on our apps and giving information
to... these apps controlled by other countries,
but how, how is Google much different than what
Google has more power than you could ever know
that you could ever wrap your head around. So
how is that any different than the, the TikTok
stuff, just because they're American based, there's
plenty of American based companies that do not
have your best interest at heart and do not have
your privacy and your safety top of mind. Yeah,
so much of the stuff around this conversation
about like banning TikTok has also brought meta
into like the forefront and about all of the
stuff that we've given up to meta over the years
because they were kind of the first one. And
so a lot of people agreed to things that they
really shouldn't have because it was just, we
were so blinded by this kind of new thing that
connected us with TikTok. everyone that we needed
to connect with. And then it just got more and
more perverse until it ended up, they know more
about me than I will ever know about myself because
they have aggregate data of, I think I've had
a Facebook technically since like 2010 maybe.
So like all of my, most of my formative years
up to this point, cause I haven't deleted my
account, but like it's, I think conversations
like this and. All of the narrative that's happening
around TikTok, it's kind of nauseating if you
think about the actual scope of the information
that we've given out to all kinds of people.
What I think also is happening is that enough
people are starting to wake up to how much of
their daily lives are controlled by these giant
tech companies. And they're starting to speak
out about it. And now these companies are starting
to backtrack. Like all the stuff that Zuckerberg
just came out with about how they're going to
get rid of their fact -checking system and all
this other stuff and try to alleviate the censorship,
which I would be okay with an unbiased opinion
on whether a news article or a comment or whatever
was actually true or not. But the problem is
that you're not going to have someone that is
truly unbiased. And then you're going to have
people start attacking the information they don't
like in order to promote their own information.
And it's a flawed system, but that's because
there's humans at the helm. But I don't think
that AI is a good replacement for it either,
because then you're just solely giving all of
the controls to these gigantic companies. Yeah,
which is also... Not related, but if you give
AI so much power, it's also the way to send the
environment to hell in a handbasket. Have you
heard of the kind of environmental impact of
ChatGPT? So ChatGPT is run through data centers.
And so every time you request, like say you want
a recipe for carbonara, if you were to ask ChatGPT
for that, it's going to crowdsource all of its
information before it actually... puts anything
back on you. It's going to source that information
from hundreds of thousands of places. That is
a lot of computing power. And if you've used
a laptop that's gotten too hot, you realize that
if you were trying to make your laptop do 100
,000 things at once, it would burn. And so these
data centers require a lot of water to cool them,
which it's not, I don't think, a real tinfoil
hat thing to... to kind of make by extension
is that a lot of the issues with like the California
wildfires were that they didn't have the water
to fight these fires. And a lot of the problems
that we've had with sourcing water is because
a lot of that goes into data centers. It's making
sure that stuff like that stays cool. I didn't
know that. Chat GPT is so bad for the environment.
And it's a thing that we don't really think about
necessarily because in my head until I probably
watched a video on TikTok. But in my head, it
was just like the same kind of computing power
that it would take to just search something on
Google. But it is in no way, shape, or form that
simple. AI is going to be a very bad thing for
the environment. I mean, one thing it all boils
down to is you just have to find a happy medium.
You're not going to be able to stop the snowball
effect of all the... The AI stuff, the chat GBTs,
the TikToks, the algorithms, the gathering all
your information. So we just need to find a way
to mitigate the damages for as long as possible.
And I'm going to tell you right now, this is
not the show to get that information from. Oh,
absolutely not. But we're just giving our opinions
on some silly stuff that's happening. I do think
that one of the good things that we're going
to get out of this is a little bit more conscious
consumption. Yeah. The conversation that's happened
for all of the time that they've been talking
about banning TikTok and all of the kind of things
that Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk and stuff
have said in that sort of context is, I think
a lot of people are becoming a little more aware
of exactly what they're doing when they're online.
And it's kind of a diminishing returns thing.
Yeah. At least from my perspective, it is. I
understand the things that I'm gaining because
I'm spending more time online, but I also am
more acutely aware of the things I'm giving up
for it. Yeah. Yeah, I think that all these things,
every market, every app, every whatever has a
bubble. And the bigger that bubble gets, by the
more people that use it, by the more people that
are talking about it, eventually that bubble
is going to get so unstable it's going to pop.
Yeah. And so I think that this is probably the
popping of the TikTok bubble. And I think that
moving forward, there's probably going to be
a lot more, not necessarily restrictions, but
more eyes put on it so that things don't get
completely out of control. Yeah, I think that
for me personally, it was also a thing of whenever
there started being all of these like copycats
of the app, the big tech giants that... I really
questioned how much time and energy I was putting
into any of it. So like when Threads came out,
which is basically just Meta's Twitter, or whenever
YouTube Shorts came out, which was just Google's
TikTok. Like the fact that there's now a Twitter
that's specific to like liberals. It's called
like Blue Sky. It's going to say Blue Zone, but
that's definitely not right. There's that Trump
one. Truth social. Truth social. The fact that
there's just all of these kind of echo chambers
where you're allowed to be as loud with the people
that believe exactly the way that you do as you
want. Uncontested. It's gross. Everyone's entitled
to their own opinion, but I don't think that
we should be in this kind of vacuum. I don't
think it helps anyone. No. And I think that,
I mean, I'm not a social media poster. I take
the information and I... I mean, I would love
to say that I do something with it in my personal
life, but I don't really. But I can see the endorphins
that people get from getting someone riled up
on the internet, some stranger, you don't know
them, but you know that you got someone's goat
and they're going after you because you said
something they didn't like. And all the elation
that comes from... those kind of feelings. Like
I understand that part. I know a lot of people
that live their entire lives based off of likes
and shares and all that stuff. And that's just
not me. And if that's you, that's fine. But that
also comes at a pretty hefty consequence or a
pretty hefty price of just what are you having
to give in order to get that? Yeah. There aren't
free things in this world. Mm -hmm. Especially
in the sense of apps and stuff. If you're not
paying for the app itself, you're paying with
something else. You are the payment. Yeah. Your
information is the payment. Circling back a little
less. Doom and gloom? Yeah. I was going to say
a little less tinfoil hattie, but that wasn't
really conspiracy theories. A little less doom
and gloom. I will say in defense of doom scrolling
that I... It's kind of a catch -22, but... I
will scroll on my phone whenever I'm on the treadmill
or like on the elliptical or whatever because
I won't pay attention to how much I'm moving.
And so I could theoretically like get all of
my steps in for the day without necessarily realizing
it. Yeah. Which is good in the sense that like
I'm getting exercise, but really bad in the sense
that how much time have I passed just in my everyday
life because I haven't had this kind of consciousness
of how much time I'm spending without. My brain
being present. How much time am I on autopilot?
Well, I think that that's a pretty healthy way
to look at it, that I know I'm doing this thing
that overall isn't very healthy for me. But while
I'm doing this, I'm going to do something that
is healthy for me, that is going to be better
for me. Maybe you could look at it as a way of
like trading off all the mental headaches for,
well, at least I'm getting exercise or maybe.
I don't know. I mean, if you're going to do it,
I think that is the best way to go about it.
Yeah, for sure. Is to find some sort of healthy
trade -off to where it's not a complete loss.
You didn't completely piss your day away. You
did something else that you needed to while you
were also getting this TikTok fix. Yeah. Do you
have any... Kind of like doom scrolling apps
or websites or whatever that are non -traditional,
so not like the social medias? I used to. I used
to use Crackle. Not Crackle, Cracked. I was about
to say, what is Crackle? No, Cracked. Like a
lot of satirical, long form, kind of like...
That was like BuzzFeed, right? Kind of, but not
just so brazenly annoying with their opinions.
That's fair. It was definitely comedy -focused.
It was like The Onion, but not liberal. It was
like Babylon Bee, but not conservative. It was
in the middle. Just like middle of the road,
okay. Yeah, and I mean, a lot of it was like
listicle stuff that would be like, well, don't
you think this is weird? That kind of stuff.
And so I would spend probably about 45 minutes
a day. reading through those articles. I'd get
to one, and then something in that article would
pique my interest to look into something else,
and then it would just go on and on. But for
the most part, that was a relatively healthy
doom scrolling because I was getting actual information
in the process. Let's see. Unconventional doom
scrolling. Quick segue, do you know if The Onion
was able to successfully buy Alex Jones's...
No, I don't think so. No? I don't think so. I
wanted to follow up on that and I keep forgetting.
Well, now you can because TikTok's back. Does
doom scrolling just have to be social media?
No. Okay, so I could be looking on Netflix for
45 minutes just trying to pick something. Streaming
services were one of mine, my non -traditional
doom scrolling. Yeah. Yeah, because I definitely
do that. I can't make my mind up on what to watch.
And I'm just going to re -watch How I Met Your
Mother for the fifth time. Well, I don't know
if that show really holds up anymore. It's kind
of a rough re -watch at this point. As long as
you skip the last season. That's kind of how
I feel about The Office, too. I don't know if
I've just seen it so many times. I overplayed
it. Yeah, that I've worn it out. I used to just
be able to put on any episode of The Office and
just be content, just sit there and watch it,
but I can't do that anymore. My thing right now
for just mindless background noise is Family
Guy. Yeah. But I'm also about to burn myself
out on that one too. Yeah, me too. Especially
because now as Seth MacFarlane is getting busier
and busier, it's just the newer episodes are
fewer and far between. So you're stuck with just
the same stuff that you've always had. I miss
the... When it comes to Family Guy specifically,
I miss the musicality of it. My Shapoopy? Not
necessarily Shapoopy. Or Shapoopy, not my Shapoopy.
Like Down Syndrome Girl or the... What is the...
All You Need is a Bag of Weed. That era of Family
Guy, I feel like that was a really fun time.
And since Seth MacFarlane stepped away from writing,
it's been... On a kind of steady downhill on
that respect. Yeah. Yeah, what's the... What
was the one about Terry Shivo? She's kind of
a livo. Oh, man. Back in the heyday. Those were
good times. So, in terms of non -traditional
doom scrolling, the things that I had in mind
were Wikipedia. Okay. Because it's very easy
to go down a rabbit hole in that one. Like I
mentioned earlier, IMDB. I have the worst habit.
of trying to find a guy from a thing that i'm
actively watching and then figuring out what
all of the things that that man has done in his
career and then being like oh there's that movie
have i seen that movie i don't know and then
i'll like go through that page it's ridiculous
um and my last one was indeed linkedin and zillow
linkedin jobs oh yeah i do not want to watch
the for lack of a better term the circle jerk
that is linkedin It exhausts me. Ryan George
on YouTube has a really funny video about out
-of -pocket LinkedIn stuff. Is that the movie
synopsis guy, the movie pitch guy? Pitch meetings,
yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, so definitely anyone
out there, check that out. Check out pitch meetings,
too. They're really funny. Yeah. Yeah, every
once in a while, I'll get this, like, I'll get
a specific kind of board, and I'll go through
either, like, job boards or I'll go through,
like, housing. For houses that I'm realistically
never going to afford. Yeah. I'm not looking
for starter homes. You're not even looking for
a house at the moment. I'm looking at mansions,
yeah. Did you watch that show on HBO that was
hosted by Jack McBrayer and it was just the weirdest
Zillow listings? I think I caught a couple episodes
of it. It was interesting. Yeah. Would he actually
go to the house? Mm -hmm. He would go on a tour
with it and just make bad puns about whatever
weird things they had in their house. There was
a pirate -themed house in Vegas, and he just
said, holy ship, the whole time. Oh. I mean,
is that the worst thing in the world? No, it
was worth the watch. Okay. That particular house
was fugly, but it was worth the watch. Good,
clean comedy is hard to come by these days. I
can't watch Ted Lasso anymore because I don't
have Apple TV+. I can bring you into the fold.
Can you? I can, yeah. Yeah, we'll sort that out
later. All right. Okay, so do you doom scroll
news? Yes. If I hear a story that just seems
like it is wildly leaning one way, I will look
up that thing and double check and make sure
I get which is something you should do with everything.
Make sure that you check out multiple sources
to get the actual facts because there's going
to be a lean, whichever way you go. Yeah. And
so you want to make sure if you don't like CNN,
you don't like Fox News, that's fine. But check
them out to see what they're saying and then
find where the middle is because that's where
the truth is going to be. And this most recently
happened with these videos of PR control for
all these L .A. fires. The like it was like the
unhoused that are starting these fires and stuff
like that. That's part of it. Yeah. Yeah, and
then one side will blame the homeless, the other
side will blame the insurance companies, and
the third side will just say, well, they knew
this was happening and this is a failure from
the city's department, which all of those may
be true. All of those may be exaggerations. You
don't know until you do your research and figure
it out. But what I'm talking about mostly that
comes to mind when I think about the question
you asked is the situation with the... I just
showed you this video with the fire department
chief that said that people, whenever someone
is in danger, they want to see someone like them.
It makes them feel more comfortable. That part,
fine. I get that. I get that. But then when this
woman was asked, what if my husband was in a
fire? And her response is, well, if your husband
was in a fire, then he probably shouldn't have
got himself in that situation in the first place,
which is just such a completely... wild response
to someone who is entire job is to take people
from danger and get them out and that was something
that I had to double triple quadruple check to
make sure that this wasn't like yeah some parody
of something and this is an actual thing that
the LA fire department put out thinking that
this was going to be like some slam dunk. And
this went through so many people and all these
people are still don't see the problem with it.
Yeah. I think the representation is great. I
think it matters. I also think that when you're
talking about your first responders, who cares?
Maybe your identity should be like the fourth
or fifth thing checked off on the list. Are you
less alive? Because the paramedic that saved
you was a straight white man? Like, I don't understand
how in an emergency situation that's relevant.
Like, yes, it's not like we shouldn't hire people.
Like, I support DEI. Yeah. I don't think that
we should put people in those kind of boxes,
but at the same time, like, does it matter in
this situation? I don't believe if I was trapped
in a... fire and a person of a DEI persuasion
came up to me and said hey I can't do anything
for you you shouldn't have gotten yourself in
this position in the first place then I'm probably
going to have some feelings about that yeah and
I'm probably going to be super duper pissed and
try to find my way out because this is their
entire job and just the fact that we have swung
so far away from Making sure that people are
qualified to focus on other things is just, it's
glaringly apparent when you watch that video.
Do we know the name of that person? Kristen.
Let me open up TikTok and find it again because
that's something I can do now. Once again. Christine
Larson. There you go. And you can't tell me that
there's not qualified people. that can do the
job, that can handle all the physical requirements
and can see everyone as someone that just needs
to be rescued in a time of crisis, that also
checks all the boxes that they need to check
in order to make sure that there is a diverse
group of people hired for these positions. A
quick thing that I wanted to mention on the Christine
Larson thing is that it says that she's the Deputy
Chief of Equity and Human Resources Bureau. So
I don't think she's like an actual fire chief.
I might be wrong. That might just be what I'm
ascertaining from this article. Well, from the
video, she was talking about, I mean, they were
talking about her having a position of power
in the Los Angeles Fire Department. And she was
speaking like she would be going on these calls.
to be the person that would make people feel
more comfortable because she would be like the
people that they were trying to help. And then
when asked about, okay, well, that's great, but
if my husband was in a fire, would you be able
to get him out? And then just wildly swinging
for the fences that, well, if he does, that's
on him. It is genuinely so incredible to hear
if you're on fire. then you shouldn't have put
yourself in a situation. Like, you shouldn't
live in California. No one should live in California.
That is correct. That place burns down fairly
regularly. A lot, yeah. There are wildfires every
single year. And they're right next to the ocean.
Like, why would people still live in the state
if, you know, they could just not put themselves
in a situation where there might be a fire? Why
have electricity? Electricity causes a lot of
fires. Well, yeah. Why have hobos that sleep
outside needing to start fires just to stay warm?
That's just a safety hazard. Kick all them out
of there. And we're not here to argue how not
well -run California is because I think there
are other people much more qualified to do that.
This is just an example of TikTok run amok that
just happens to be timely right now because of
all the devastation in L .A. That's crazy. But
on a lighter note... One thing that I am proud
to say that I do scroll on is these videos of,
because do you know how the ad revenue and stuff
works for TikTok? That you get a certain time
amount into the video and it starts counting
as views that can be monetized, right? Yes. And
so from that, you have all these cases of...
people that are trying to take advantage of that
system and not take advantage like in a negative
way but like this is an opportunity available
to them and so they're trying to make the most
of it and I'm sure that I've gotten duped more
than once when I've watched some of these videos
but if it's something with a compelling story
like a baby that has some sort of illness or
a dad that has cancer or a mom that It's just
trying to survive. And it says, hang around for
60 seconds and watch me do this thing. And that
way we can get money from your views. Then I'll
stick around. I support that in a crowdfunding
thing. But it also makes me so sad that that's
the state that we're in now. For lack of a better
term, you're pandering for views. Because these
views are going to make your medical debt ease
up a little. But you can look at it from... the
other side and say that isn't creating videos
on TikTok all for pandering views. At least this
way, you know that your attention and your time
is being put towards something that's a little
more goodwill -ish than it would be if it were
just going to some 17 -year -old twerp that needs
to buy a Lamborghini. Sure. I just, I don't know.
I see that I guess more pessimistically. I see
it more from the dystopian side of things than
the fact that... I'm still going to watch the
60 -second video or whatever, or sometimes I'll
just leave the video on while I was doing something
else. Because if it helps, great. I would love
for my bad habit to be beneficial to someone.
But it's so gross that we're in a situation where
we're... Where a lot of people are having to
like beg for likes so that they can afford necessities
in life. I agree with that. I think that that
can lead you down another rabbit hole where you're
just going to be doom scrolling on the American
healthcare system versus other countries that
have socialized healthcare. And the fact that
with socialized healthcare, there's a lot of
wait times. There's a lot of... paperwork and
there's a lot of stuff that falls through the
cracks because of the system they have. There's
definitely stuff that falls through the cracks
because of the system we have. Having, giving
as much control to the insurance companies as
we do is a flawed system. I don't think that
socialized health care altogether is the answer.
I don't think that the system we have now is
the answer. But what I can do is I can use my
time. As a way to help alleviate some of those
burdens from whoever. And that's, I mean, I think
that's the overarching thesis behind this episode
is that your time is worth something to someone.
Most importantly, you. So if you are spending
your time doing something that is not going to
further you, is not going to enrich you, is not
going to make you better at all, then you're
wasting your time. And you're wasting the only
thing that you aren't guaranteed in this world.
Yeah, that's a good point. And so if you can
use what time you are given towards something
that you feel happy about, something that you
feel... confident about giving up that part of
yourself too then I don't I don't think it's
it's a bad thing like I if you feel that comfortable
about just sitting on TikTok all day then you
spent your time that you were given how you wanted
to yeah so I don't think necessarily that doom
scrolling on its own is a bad thing I think that
everyone has their all the free will they need
to choose how to spend their time. And if that's
how they want to spend their time, that's how
they want to spend their time. Yeah. I, yeah,
I don't know. I think that given the context
of the last couple of days where everyone was
kind of saying their, their goodbyes to TikTok,
that it's, I feel like I'm a little bit more
cognizant of that, that like the way that I've
been spending my time is not necessarily productive.
It's not necessarily good for my, my mental or
my physical health. Yeah. That. Like I, moving
forward, I would like to be a lot more conscious
of the way that I spend my time because yeah,
none of it, none of it's guaranteed. And I will,
I do want to kind of justify some of the time
that I've spent on TikTok and say that I've learned,
I learned a lot of cool things. I used a tutorial
that I found on TikTok from, or to make a, to
start a flower crochet blanket. Yeah. Which is
a thing that has. conversely, has helped me spend
time off of my phone. There you go. And so that's
definitely a benefit. I've done workouts that
I've done on TikTok and stuff. But I think by
and large, again, specific to me, I've spent
a lot of wasted time on TikTok. That's a thing
that I want to kind of work on moving forward.
That's a great goal to have. But also at the
same time, if all of that doom scrolling led
you to find a new hobby, that you enjoy then
wasn't all that bad yeah if you had to go there
to to get to being a crochet queen i so in just
the couple of weeks that we've been into 2025
i feel like so much of my time on tiktok has
been split and like yeah i've learned a lot of
things i have learned to to crochet flowers and
stuff like that but the flip side of that is
that i am so deeply embedded in the lawsuit between
Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively I don't need
to know and I will still watch a video even when
90 % of the video is the same information that
I was already aware of from the last TikTok that's
the kind of thing that I want to stop doing so
if it's maybe a little bit more conscious of
a choice where I'm like only going on TikTok
if I want to look up something specific or if
it's like me I don't know only watching TikTok
in black and white because I have a setting on
my phone right now where it'll just shut out
the color in my phone. But it's because the human
brain is very easily distracted by color. And
so if you have all of these colorful, flashy
things in front of you because you're constantly
scrolling through things that are made to catch
your attention, then it will kind of de -incentivize
you being on your phone. And it works. Like the
Simpsons. What? That's the reason they're yellow.
So that when you were flipping through the channel,
when you just flashed on a scene and you saw
yellow people, you knew it was The Simpsons.
Really? Uh -huh. Interesting. Okay. Then yeah,
like The Simpsons. No word on why the Asians
are still pasty white and why the black people
are still black, but the yellow people are yellow
because of catching your eye. Could be. Could
be. We talk about it a lot, but I think that...
One of the things that is also making a comeback
that's helpful to people spending a lot of time
just doing nothing tasks on their phone is the
revival of the flip phone or the dumb phone or
whatever. Did we ever actually post that? I don't
think we have yet. No. I don't think so. This
is something we've talked about before. Once
we get monetized, we want to do a... We want
to challenge ourselves to see how long we can
last with just a flip phone. No bells and whistles,
maybe very, very sparse internet access, but
other than that, just a straight -up flip phone
that cannot be used to eat away our day and take
away our productivity. So in the situation where
you would be able to switch to just a flip phone,
what do you think would be the hardest thing
to part with? Probably the podcast and music
aspect of it. Okay. Because I do a lot of driving
and when I'm doing that, I'm either playing music
or playing a podcast from my phone. So what we
might be able to do is just go back to an iPod.
Yeah. Go back to some sort of MP3 player where
we can put everything on. on the device before
we leave and then we'll just have that to to
play whatever we want to and then for everything
else we'll just have the flip phone i will say
i seriously miss cd players my yeah the car that
i have now is just like the screen i want cds
yeah uh my first car had a cassette player which
i used with a little cassette with a little aux
cord attached to it because I was living in the
future. The Ranger? Yeah. I think the hardest
time that I would have in switching to a flip
phone would be Maps. My sense of direction is
garbage. And it's a thing that I've wanted to
work on, and I know that a lot of that comes
from the fact that I don't use my... my brain
to navigate a whole lot so like if i know very
clearly the place that i'm going then i can just
make that drive yeah but my i get this kind of
like tunnel vision when it comes to directions
so like i know how to get there but if i'm trying
to go from point a to point b to point c my brain
will just like not be able to to make those connections
the right way yeah and so i think that losing
like google maps would be a really hard thing
for me I don't think it's a thing that I couldn't
get around. Eventually I would have to develop
a better sense of direction and I would get lost
plenty of times in the process. How long do you
think that would take? Honestly, I have no idea.
My sense of direction is real bad. I wish it
weren't. It's always been rough. I would still
get directions. I worked at the restaurant that
I was in most recently. For a long time. And
I would still get directions every once in a
while to the restaurant to check on traffic,
which is fine. But I would also just like leave
it up in the background. Like I wouldn't be paying
attention to it, but I would just have it like
up. Yeah. And that's also not really helpful.
I don't need those directions if there is like
a crutch. So in my head, like I'm not actually
making conscious decisions because I'm still
sort of following these directions. Yeah, if
I feel like I'm running late for something, I
will put directions into somewhere where I know
like the back of my hand how to get there just
to see what the general time frame is that I
can look at for being there. Because I am okay
at like estimating based on perfect conditions.
Yeah. But you never know. And especially living
in cities as big as we live in. It's difficult
to be able to gauge that appropriately because
people drive like idiots. And there's constantly
accidents. There's constantly people slowing
down past these accidents because they just want
to see what's going on. And so it's very difficult
in this sort of urban environment for you to
be able to gauge that properly and be able to
know. without having to leave 45 minutes before
you meant to just so you know that you can get
wherever you need it to. So I definitely think
that that's something that the maps, Google Maps
or the map app on Apple has definitely chipped
away at that part of my brain. And I use it for
more of a crutch now than anything else. And
so I... I don't know how I would react to that.
I don't know how I would react going back to
that and just not having that knowledge, knowing
that I easily could. Yeah. And I think that that
would be the biggest part of if we did make a
switch to a flip phone would be just knowing
that all this stuff is available to us, but actively
trying to avoid using any of it. Yeah, I think.
So I've been kind of in this loop. So there have
been a lot of times where I've sat down and been
like, I am spending too much time on my phone.
So I will go through some kind of half measure
where I obviously still have my phone because
I still need it. But I'm trying to figure out
a way to spend less time on it. And so I've had
the annoying interfaces or I'll delete all of
the apps that I don't. either don't need or shouldn't
be on. And there's just this, so far at least,
I haven't been disciplined enough to actually
maintain all of those changes. And so I'll have
a month go by where I'm not on any of the social
medias or I'm not spending all of this time on
my phone. It stays in black and white or whatever.
And then there's this. There's this one thing
where I'm just, I'm just like generally curious.
It's not a thing that I absolutely need to know.
And I'm like, well, you know, one time won't
hurt. And so I'll Google something that I don't
use to Google because I don't need to know how
I know that guy from that thing. And inevitably
I would just go down this rabbit hole and it's,
it's exhausting. Like doing this time and time
again, where I have all of these. things put
in place to try to stop me from playing into
my phone the way that like all these companies
are trying to get me to yeah and I still just
I just delay my willingness to go back into that
rabbit hole that's something that I have experienced
in other aspects of my life that I can I can
stop doing something I can consciously stop doing
something and I don't have a problem with it
yeah Until I do it that one time. I do it that
one time and then all of a sudden it's all I
want to do. So there's a thing that I've been
trying to work on for this year. I don't necessarily
believe in resolutions, but I'm trying to be
in a broader scheme just better this year. And
so I'm trying to think of my missteps as just...
a one -off thing and not like oh well I was supposed
to eat healthy all of this year and I what a
burger yesterday so my year is shot yeah like
it's the middle of January and I messed up once
so I can't have that perfect record I don't want
to do it anymore and that's just such a ridiculous
thing to to operate by yeah I think it's a it's
a matter of one setting your sights too narrowly
yeah not giving yourself room for to step outside
the confines a little bit and give yourself the
ability to have those cheat days or whatever
you want to call them. Yeah. But then it's also
just a, and this, this is the same thing that
I've dealt with, with, um, with drinking, with
tobacco, with all kinds of stuff is that. I have
to, I feel like I have to put myself into such
a tight box in order to make sure that I stay
in there. So I have to, it's gotten better. I
can be around alcohol and it doesn't faze me.
I don't want it. I don't need it. I don't, I
have no interest in it. But it took me a really
long time of holding myself in that box and making
sure that I didn't step one toe over that line
in order to get to where I am now. And then the
same thing with tobacco. I have to keep myself
just really tightly confined. And that one isn't
as... I'm not as strict about that one as I probably
should be. But... When I feel like I, and I'm
not on the same plane with tobacco anywhere near
like what I am with alcohol. Alcohol, no issue
whatsoever. I can be around it. I can see it.
It can be offered to me and I'll say no. No,
thank you. I'm good. But tobacco, I just, I don't
know. I just feel like maybe it's less of a...
less of a mood alterer so I don't take it as
seriously okay as the alcohol but at the same
time it's it definitely has the same hold in
it and it has the same hold as if I decided today
that I wasn't going to use TikTok I wouldn't
use TikTok until I just decided to use well it's
not that bad yeah and so I used it once and then
all of a sudden it's all I'm going to be doing
Yeah, like a lot of the conversations that the
two of us have been having in the last day or
so have been just like normal conversations.
And there would be just this one thing that would
come up every so often. And it would be like,
oh, well, I'd be able to know that if I had TikTok.
Like it's not that real. If we needed to know
it, we could very much Google it. Or take a sec
and realize that we don't actually need to know
that thing. And really when it comes to recording
these, whenever... Whenever we need to pause
and check something, it's because we don't want
to get fact -checked later on. So we want to
make sure that what we're putting out originally
is as correct as we can get it. Sure, but I think
that's also kind of a scapegoat for we just want
to do things. It is. And then, I mean, that goes
into the, well, I said I wasn't going to do it,
but I do want it for this one thing. And I need
it because, yeah. And then that just snowballs
into... Just a never ending pile of hot, hot
garbage. I had TikTok deleted from my phone for
a long time. And then I don't remember what it
was, but there was like one specific conversation
that I was having or like a friend of mine mentioned,
hey, I sent you this thing on TikTok. And I was
like, oh, well, I want to see the thing this
person sent me. And so I redownloaded it and
it was on my phone for a problematic amount of
time after that. I didn't need it for the couple
of months or whatever that it wasn't on my phone.
But then as soon as I got it back for theoretically
the one thing I needed it for, then I went down
a rabbit hole and I was just like, oh, well,
it's fine. I can just keep this on my phone.
I wasn't going to be more conscious about my
use of it. Anything in your life that you deem
to be problematic or other people have deemed
to be problematic, most of the time it's just
about having a... reasonable amount of control
and having restrictions put in it. Moderation,
guys. Moderation. Yeah. So overall, is TikTok
the devil? No. Overall, is the internet the devil?
Kind of. No. It's all about how you use it. It's
all about the way that you use these tools that
are at your disposal. Yeah. Like if me and you
need to share. need to share TikToks about this
stupid ass Robbie Williams movie because that's
our love language to each other, then that's
fine. Then that's what we're going to do. I will
say that that is one of the better things that
I've seen on TikTok recently was whenever the
Robbie Williams biopic came out, which at some
point I'm going to watch it just out of curiosity.
I'll watch it on a live stream. I would love
to do that. But people have just been like mercilessly
mocking it in the States because no one here
knows who Robbie Williams is. If I'm wrong, please
correct me. I don't know anyone near me who knows
who Robbie Williams is. And based on the discourse
that I've seen on TikTok, neither do most people
in the States. No. But they've been doing like
a stop motion mockery of the. I think it's from
the trailer. For the next two hours, your ass
is mine. And then it just plays the most mid
-pop song you've ever heard. That's a good use
of the internet. Do you think that Robbie Williams
was pissed whenever they said Trump was, they're
going to bring back TikTok because Trump made
some deal with them? He thought he was going
to get a break. He thought he was going to get
just a little ounce of peace. And then all of
a sudden it's back. And now so are every single,
Who the hell is Robbie Williams' TikTok? I don't
think that this movie would exist with the concept
the way that it is if this man did not have the
healthiest ego. And so I don't necessarily think
that it's going to matter what the TikTok discourse
is about this man who's one of the biggest pop
stars in the world, according to people from
the UK. More like the uncool. Do we have a crickets
button? Because we need a crickets button. Yeah,
I think that he probably doesn't really care
what the people in the States think of him. He
totally cares. Yeah? He totally cares, yes. Has
he come out and said things about it? I'm sure.
I don't keep up. I don't care about his side
of it because I don't know him. I don't care
what his opinion is because he is a guy that
was in a Brad Paisley song for Cars 2 with Larry
the Cable Guy. You keep mentioning that, and
every time you say it, I forget about it. Yeah.
And so I just keep remembering Collision of Worlds
is a whole thing, and that is the one song by
50 % is Robbie Williams. Yes. The only one I
know of is. Yes, me too. And now, Against My
Will, Candy. Oh, is that the song? That's the
one that everyone follows for the next two hours,
Cliff with, is the song Candy. See, I didn't
even know that. And I know about 15 seconds of
that song. And it's the one that they use the
stop motion monkey animal or monkey action figures
for, yeah. King Kong, Curious George. Incredible.
Oh. This episode got a lot more existential than
I thought it would. This is like the things ruined
by the internet. Yeah. It's just like sort of
a continuation. It had a lot of tendrils into.
All kinds of other aspects of our lives. Yeah.
Doomscrolling is a topic that is near and dear
to me. Yeah? It's a thing that affects my everyday
life. Do you have any words of wisdom to leave
on? Consume consciously. Oh, that's a good one.
That could be a t -shirt. In case you're on the
fence, this podcast is consuming consciously.
It is. We spit nothing but facts that have been
fact -checked on the fly, and so you know they're
accurate. We do our best. Do you have anything
for the people? Your time is worth something
to someone. Most importantly should be you. Use
it wisely. Use it wisely. All right, we'll see
you next time.