WEBVTT 00:00:11.020 --> 00:00:16.899 Lost in the fog of a cosmic storm Floating on 00:00:16.899 --> 00:00:21.140 whimsical wavelengths is the norm Dancing through 00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:31.410 the stars, chasing spectrums of light I have 00:00:31.410 --> 00:00:33.609 an absolute treat for you. Or maybe it's just 00:00:33.609 --> 00:00:36.490 a treat for me. Well, I guarantee I am super 00:00:36.490 --> 00:00:38.649 excited for this discussion. Why? Well, because 00:00:38.649 --> 00:00:42.250 I'm going to have my past graduate supervisor, 00:00:42.469 --> 00:00:47.789 mentor, and friend on for this episode. Dr. Glynn 00:00:47.789 --> 00:00:50.090 Williams -Jones, professor at Simon Fraser University 00:00:50.090 --> 00:00:52.649 in the Department of Earth Sciences. So that 00:00:52.649 --> 00:00:57.179 means back towards volcanology. This one and 00:00:57.179 --> 00:00:59.020 the next one, it's almost a two -parter. Two 00:00:59.020 --> 00:01:01.380 episodes, two different guests, approximately 00:01:01.380 --> 00:01:05.159 the same location, and a great way to start the 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:08.459 year. Usually, my guest and I's backstory is 00:01:08.459 --> 00:01:10.840 pretty simple. I poke someone by email, they 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:13.379 say yes, or they redirect me to someone else 00:01:13.379 --> 00:01:17.239 who says yes. The two exceptions, no surprise, 00:01:17.340 --> 00:01:20.879 have been the episodes that sit squarely in my 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:24.329 geological wheelhouse. I think because there's 00:01:24.329 --> 00:01:27.609 a colorful story here, I'll dig into a little 00:01:27.609 --> 00:01:29.870 bit of the backstory before getting into the 00:01:29.870 --> 00:01:33.010 science. So I came out of my bachelor's with 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:36.010 a combined major in physics and geology. Because 00:01:36.010 --> 00:01:39.409 why choose between rocks and hard places? Also 00:01:39.409 --> 00:01:42.150 dreams of studying volcanoes. You know, poke 00:01:42.150 --> 00:01:45.299 and lava with a stick. I wasn't a straight -A 00:01:45.299 --> 00:01:47.260 student. I mean, I wasn't a bad student either. 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:50.159 I was just, you know, somewhere in the middle. 00:01:50.379 --> 00:01:53.219 Not exactly the kind that just grabs a committee's 00:01:53.219 --> 00:01:56.219 attention. So I headed north. Literally. It's 00:01:56.219 --> 00:01:58.640 a cliche that young people go backpacking and 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.120 see the world when they're young. I guess I did 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:04.019 the same, although I traded culture for mosquitoes, 00:02:04.260 --> 00:02:07.680 caribou, and bears. I used my parents' address 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.639 as a fixed address while I bounced around Canada's 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:13.689 remote regions collecting geophysical data. When 00:02:13.689 --> 00:02:15.909 you're in the middle of nowhere, there's no rent, 00:02:16.009 --> 00:02:19.030 no groceries, no distractions. I saved up a pile 00:02:19.030 --> 00:02:21.629 of money and managed to volunteer at the Hawaiian 00:02:21.629 --> 00:02:24.370 Volcano Observatory. Between the degree and the 00:02:24.370 --> 00:02:27.150 previous three -month co -op stint at the Hawaiian 00:02:27.150 --> 00:02:29.030 Volcano Observatory and experience working in 00:02:29.030 --> 00:02:31.870 hazardous environments in Canada, I managed to 00:02:31.870 --> 00:02:34.909 get in. I even spent a night camping on the erupting 00:02:34.909 --> 00:02:37.210 vent of Pu 'u O 'o, which for a volcanologist 00:02:37.210 --> 00:02:39.610 is basically the equivalent of a front row seat 00:02:39.610 --> 00:02:43.210 at the universe's... biggest concert. Along the 00:02:43.210 --> 00:02:45.830 way, I met retiring professor Dr. Al Edgars, 00:02:45.849 --> 00:02:47.909 who picked up the work from a former student 00:02:47.909 --> 00:02:51.169 who had tragically passed away. I must have made 00:02:51.169 --> 00:02:52.930 some kind of impression because he connected 00:02:52.930 --> 00:02:56.030 me directly with my future supervisor. And that 00:02:56.030 --> 00:02:59.349 was that. Instead of how I met your mother, how 00:02:59.349 --> 00:03:02.469 I met my PhD supervisor? Luckily, that's not 00:03:02.469 --> 00:03:06.210 what we tuned in to today. Today's topic, Mount 00:03:06.210 --> 00:03:10.469 Meagher. A volcano in British Columbia, Canada, 00:03:10.550 --> 00:03:13.849 that shares a surprising amount of overlap with 00:03:13.849 --> 00:03:17.229 Mount Baker and even Mount St. Helens. It's a 00:03:17.229 --> 00:03:22.210 Cascade volcano. Full stop. And no, the Cascade 00:03:22.210 --> 00:03:25.129 arc doesn't politely end at the Canadian -U .S. 00:03:25.150 --> 00:03:27.930 border. Subduction zones don't carry passports, 00:03:27.990 --> 00:03:29.849 and as we've covered here on Whimsical Wavelengths 00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:32.949 before, this is where dense oceanic crust is 00:03:32.949 --> 00:03:36.050 sinking beneath North America, releasing volatiles 00:03:36.050 --> 00:03:39.550 into the mantle. lowering the melting point of 00:03:39.550 --> 00:03:43.990 the mantle above, and creating magma that eventually 00:03:43.990 --> 00:03:47.969 pushes its way up towards the surface. If you 00:03:47.969 --> 00:03:50.289 need a refresher, have a listen to the first 00:03:50.289 --> 00:03:52.610 episode of the season all about Messiah Volcano 00:03:52.610 --> 00:03:55.250 and basaltic plinian eruptions. It's a blast, 00:03:55.449 --> 00:03:59.849 literally. So this is kind of a two -parter, 00:03:59.889 --> 00:04:02.509 and the second will be something completely different 00:04:02.509 --> 00:04:05.930 with a different guest. But same rough location. 00:04:06.110 --> 00:04:08.310 Listeners, please welcome Professor at Simon 00:04:08.310 --> 00:04:10.210 Fraser University in the Department of Earth 00:04:10.210 --> 00:04:14.569 Sciences, my past PhD supervisor, Dr. Glynn Williams 00:04:14.569 --> 00:04:19.269 -Jones. Hey there. Glad to join you today. It's 00:04:19.269 --> 00:04:21.790 about time. I mean, normally on academic resumes 00:04:21.790 --> 00:04:25.170 and application packages, it's standard, normal 00:04:25.170 --> 00:04:27.649 to have your past PhD supervisor as a reference. 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:31.740 Why is that, and what does that say about Whimsical 00:04:31.740 --> 00:04:35.139 Wavelengths not having you on until now? Well, 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:37.500 I guess some people like to say it's all about 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:42.819 the academic pedigree, but really it's more about 00:04:42.819 --> 00:04:46.459 what you get on and go and do with things. So, 00:04:46.459 --> 00:04:49.519 you know, you are missing out that the first 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:53.959 episode of Whimsical Wavelengths was in my basement. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:59.879 So I was in there serendipitously. I think technically 00:04:59.879 --> 00:05:02.480 it was like the third or fourth, but whatever. 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:07.740 But yeah, no, I think for most of us, the key 00:05:07.740 --> 00:05:11.699 thing is as a supervisor is like being a proud 00:05:11.699 --> 00:05:16.459 parent. You know, what does your former students 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:19.560 go on and move on to and do bigger and better 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.939 things? I was more thinking more of like a sausage 00:05:22.939 --> 00:05:26.689 making of science thing because. If you don't 00:05:26.689 --> 00:05:29.449 have your PhD supervisor on your application 00:05:29.449 --> 00:05:32.550 to say to become a professor for a job, like 00:05:32.550 --> 00:05:36.110 that's usually a red flag, isn't it? I mean, 00:05:36.170 --> 00:05:39.230 it would raise a flag potentially. People would 00:05:39.230 --> 00:05:42.389 ask why. And then you'd have to have some difficult 00:05:42.389 --> 00:05:47.610 conversation as to why. But, you know, my dad 00:05:47.610 --> 00:05:52.240 said a PhD, it's just a driver's license. Uh, 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:55.860 it's, it's a degree to go on and do your thing, 00:05:55.980 --> 00:05:59.180 do what you need to do. Okay. This is totally 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:02.800 piled higher than deeper. Now this is kind of 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.000 like, we're really getting in deep. Um, so your 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.240 dad is actually a professor at McGill university 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:12.740 emeritus now, right? He's still fully active, 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.339 fully active and producing more papers now than, 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:18.939 than he ever has. It's insane. But that's not 00:06:18.939 --> 00:06:20.879 why we got you on here. But that's what happens 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:22.480 when you start chatting, especially to an old 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:25.399 friend who we still drink beer on regular occasions 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:28.360 and lament about how we're going to take over 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:30.139 the world with science. I'm not sure who's pinky 00:06:30.139 --> 00:06:32.639 and who's the brain. Global domination, that's 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:37.560 where we're at. So we're here for me to ask you 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:40.139 questions about a volcano that I love dearly 00:06:40.139 --> 00:06:43.180 and is absolutely gorgeous. The Canadian volcano 00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:46.209 Mount Meagher. So many different ways to tell 00:06:46.209 --> 00:06:49.069 this story. It's also been framed the most dangerous 00:06:49.069 --> 00:06:53.689 Canadian volcano. That implies we have lots of 00:06:53.689 --> 00:06:56.970 them. I mean, we're not known for them. So why 00:06:56.970 --> 00:06:59.629 is Mount Meager dangerous and how many do we 00:06:59.629 --> 00:07:03.629 actually have? So we've got lots. The challenge, 00:07:03.730 --> 00:07:07.029 why is Meager dangerous? Well, and that's the 00:07:07.029 --> 00:07:09.550 bigger issue for most of our volcanoes is we 00:07:09.550 --> 00:07:13.790 know very little about them. They're fairly remote. 00:07:14.329 --> 00:07:18.290 They're hard to get to. And we've not had a big 00:07:18.290 --> 00:07:21.949 eruption in sort of, well, any eruption in living 00:07:21.949 --> 00:07:25.230 memory. And so getting people to be thinking 00:07:25.230 --> 00:07:28.790 about it, aware, is a challenge. And that awareness 00:07:28.790 --> 00:07:32.709 is also funding to go out and do the work. But 00:07:32.709 --> 00:07:36.990 Meagher is, it's 60 kilometers northwest of Pemberton, 00:07:37.050 --> 00:07:41.069 about 150, 160 kilometers northwest of Vancouver. 00:07:41.310 --> 00:07:45.379 So it's a bit remote. But nevertheless, the communities 00:07:45.379 --> 00:07:50.160 are at risk. And it's the site of Canada's most 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:55.060 recent explosive eruption only 2 ,400 years ago. 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.240 So by lots, though, like we talking all of our 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.459 volcanoes are like Yellowstone. They're like 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:02.699 Kilauea. Where are we going here? Because no 00:08:02.699 --> 00:08:05.079 one really talks about volcanoes in Canada. Yeah, 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:07.600 we don't talk about volcanoes. We've got students 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:10.060 in my group have been doing some research on 00:08:10.060 --> 00:08:12.860 that, trying to better understand. the perception 00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:16.420 issue. We've got, you could certainly say, hundreds, 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:21.439 but the issue is that, again, they're not overly 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:24.800 active in terms of the time frame, and British 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.899 Columbia being a very young part of the country, 00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:32.759 those observations are sort of lacking. We haven't 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:36.460 had our Mount St. Helens eruption to be up front 00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:40.000 and center, but we have... Volcanoes that run 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:45.440 the Gambit from small little innocuous cinder 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:49.200 cones that you might see in Mexico through to 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:54.899 big volcanic complexes, Mount Edziza up north, 00:08:55.299 --> 00:09:00.080 and now, again, very close to home, Mount Meager, 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.600 Mount Cayley, Mount Garibaldi. And those are 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:09.240 of... concern because they are closest to population 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:12.779 centers and infrastructure. So highways and pipelines 00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:16.419 and electricity corridors, these are important 00:09:16.419 --> 00:09:19.980 aspects that we have to consider. All right, 00:09:20.059 --> 00:09:28.779 so let's dive into the 2 ,400 years ago. Yeah, 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.360 the last eruption of Mount Meagher, mainly because 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:37.320 it's the one I know best. But how? When? Why? 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.279 Like what happened? Yeah. And it's a cool story, 00:09:41.379 --> 00:09:44.799 which is like so much in real estate. It's location, 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:49.500 location, location. So we have this large mountain 00:09:49.500 --> 00:09:54.580 of multiple overlapping volcanoes built up over 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:56.980 about the last two million years of activity. 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:01.740 But 2400 years ago, there was an eruption again. 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:05.279 Think visually on the scale of a Mount St. Helens 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:11.039 style event. So there was a big ash column jetted 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:14.279 up into the air. We think on the order of maybe 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:18.860 15 to 20 kilometers high. And it was big enough 00:10:18.860 --> 00:10:21.639 that it sent ash all the way out to Calgary, 00:10:21.740 --> 00:10:24.320 just on the outskirts of Calgary. So we're looking, 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:27.279 you know, 500 kilometers to the east. So we had 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:31.629 this big explosion and it... rain down sort of 00:10:31.629 --> 00:10:34.269 things like tephra, but specifically pumice, 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:37.789 you know, what you have in the bathroom to work 00:10:37.789 --> 00:10:41.330 on those bunions. Well, up to 80 meters of this 00:10:41.330 --> 00:10:45.889 material built up around the volcano. And then 00:10:45.889 --> 00:10:49.370 subsequently, the eruption actually changed. 00:10:49.570 --> 00:10:52.669 And it went from an explosive eruption into what 00:10:52.669 --> 00:10:56.360 we call an effusive eruption. lava flows coming 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:00.159 out of the side of the volcano. But that's not 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.559 abnormal, isn't it? Like Mount St. Helens did 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.480 the same thing. Yeah, exactly. So it's not abnormal. 00:11:06.019 --> 00:11:08.799 But also the key thing is that those lava flows 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:11.879 are not like Hawaii. They're more like Mount 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:15.860 St. Helens, much more sticky and viscous because 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:19.299 of their composition. And that lava flow tried 00:11:19.299 --> 00:11:22.059 to come out onto the side of the volcano. We're 00:11:22.059 --> 00:11:24.600 still not certain whether we would classify it 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:28.600 as a flow or as a dome think about sticky toothpaste 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:32.419 coming out the side and but it's hot you know 00:11:32.419 --> 00:11:34.399 it's maybe eight nine hundred degrees celsius 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:38.779 it's pushing out onto a steep slope and then 00:11:38.779 --> 00:11:43.679 eventually it can't gravity is at work and it's 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:47.019 pulling down on that that dome and it breaks 00:11:47.019 --> 00:11:51.019 apart and it breaks apart and flows down the 00:11:51.019 --> 00:11:55.399 the flank of that volcano into the Upper Lillooet 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:59.179 River Valley. The flow is what we call a pyroclastic 00:11:59.179 --> 00:12:02.419 density current, or what used to be called pyroclastic 00:12:02.419 --> 00:12:06.080 flows, and this specific type is what's called 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:10.299 a block and ash flow. So there were huge fragments 00:12:10.299 --> 00:12:13.899 on the order of, you know, car -sized blocks 00:12:13.899 --> 00:12:17.960 of this lava surrounded by pulverized blocks 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.559 of the same lava, just fine ash. And what's so 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:27.740 cool is that pyroclastic flow flowed down into 00:12:27.740 --> 00:12:30.340 the river valley, couldn't go anywhere, and so 00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:35.059 it bulked up and built up a dam of material 110 00:12:35.059 --> 00:12:38.899 meters high and about three kilometers wide. 00:12:39.259 --> 00:12:41.379 And because it couldn't go anywhere and because 00:12:41.379 --> 00:12:45.379 it was still hot, it basically melted itself 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:50.179 back together again. It welded to form this essentially 00:12:50.179 --> 00:12:54.419 impermeable dam. Wow. And you can see this actually, 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:58.539 as well as SFU and UBC, I guess you guys often 00:12:58.539 --> 00:13:01.340 do this field trip together. So if you're taking 00:13:01.340 --> 00:13:03.759 forth your volcanology at SFU, and I suggest 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:06.259 you do it if you're at all interested, you can 00:13:06.259 --> 00:13:09.200 go and see these cliffs that the river has cut 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.159 down. And it's quite amazing because you see 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.620 these clasts or these broken bits in a finer 00:13:15.620 --> 00:13:19.159 grained matrix, a gray. matrix and black class. 00:13:19.460 --> 00:13:22.379 And I think the most special thing of all is 00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:27.360 what you can find downstream. Yeah, because what's 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:30.299 cool is, you know, we dammed, we, the volcano 00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:34.039 products dammed the river. And this is a sizable 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:36.519 river, the Lillooet. Yeah, it's not small. It's 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:38.080 not huge, but it's not small. It's not small, 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:41.860 but it's not huge. And it ended up making, forming 00:13:41.860 --> 00:13:45.220 a lake behind that dam of up to a half cubic 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:48.279 kilometer of water. So the river is building 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:50.500 up, it's got nowhere to go, it forms this huge 00:13:50.500 --> 00:13:55.700 lake, and then that lake overtops the dam, and 00:13:55.700 --> 00:14:00.139 we get a catastrophic outburst flood. We use 00:14:00.139 --> 00:14:03.440 the term Jalkulof, it's the Icelandic term, because 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.080 we see these events so often in Iceland. But 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:11.669 it bursts out, and then... Thanks to work by 00:14:11.669 --> 00:14:14.830 my friend and colleague at UBC, Kelly Russell, 00:14:15.029 --> 00:14:17.870 and his team of graduate students and researchers, 00:14:18.149 --> 00:14:21.149 they model, they suggest that this whole thing 00:14:21.149 --> 00:14:24.429 unzipped two and a half kilometers of that three 00:14:24.429 --> 00:14:28.389 kilometers of dam, unzipped backwards in maybe 00:14:28.389 --> 00:14:31.220 as little as eight hours, which is... Absolutely 00:14:31.220 --> 00:14:34.440 mind -blowing. And now what we see, if you stand 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.600 on the remnants on the leftover part, what's 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:40.159 called Keyhole Falls, you can see this tiny little 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:44.220 slot canyon that has formed over the last 2 ,400 00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:47.220 years of erosion, and this amazing valley just 00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:50.100 opening up in front of your eyes. But downstream, 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:54.500 as you mentioned, we can see these blocks of, 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.120 you know, sort of, say, a meter to three, four 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:02.820 meters in diameter. blocks in the deposits from 00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:06.539 that outburst flood and what's so cool it's these 00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:10.559 welded blocks of really glassy fragmental material 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:14.559 that have then are rounded just as they've been 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.259 you know transported but you can see all of these 00:15:17.259 --> 00:15:20.559 what we call cooling joints uh and they're radial 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.960 so they come from the outer edges cooling in 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:28.899 and that tells us that that dam was still hot 00:15:28.899 --> 00:15:32.750 when it fail catastrophically because the cooling 00:15:32.750 --> 00:15:36.750 joints tell us about that process. So it's this 00:15:36.750 --> 00:15:40.929 amazing detective story to figure out the sequence 00:15:40.929 --> 00:15:45.409 of events. And history has a tendency to repeat 00:15:45.409 --> 00:15:49.769 itself. So in 2010, big landslide, dammed the 00:15:49.769 --> 00:15:53.490 river, and lo and behold, we had another event. 00:15:53.649 --> 00:15:58.620 Not of the same scale, but it's a concern. Yeah, 00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:00.899 I think for listeners following along, I think 00:16:00.899 --> 00:16:03.360 the best way, if you're at all geology curious, 00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:05.820 you've probably already seen columnar joints 00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:10.940 with basalt due to it just cooling from the top. 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:13.440 And that's essentially what this is. Although 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.879 it's not basalt, you can still get these types 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:19.720 of jointing in other lava flows, not just basalt. 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.700 important things that I'll always remember Professor 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:26.580 Kelly Russell for is that the columns never lie. 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.840 They always tell you the direction of cooling. 00:16:30.259 --> 00:16:33.379 And so if you ever see those images, and I've 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:35.440 seen lots of people say they're AI, most of them 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:38.360 are not anyway, where you have these radial joints, 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.980 they almost look like a fan. And that's because 00:16:40.980 --> 00:16:44.440 the cooling surface was rounded. And so it's 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.679 always pointing back to where it was cooling 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:49.889 from. In this case, usually it's due to glaciers. 00:16:49.909 --> 00:16:53.289 In this time, you have this hot class being rafted 00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:56.429 out in this amazing flood, huge giant flood. 00:16:56.649 --> 00:16:58.870 And so now the cooling surface is all around 00:16:58.870 --> 00:17:00.690 the class. And that's why you get these radial 00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:03.990 joints. I just so phenomenal. I always get a 00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:05.869 kick out of seeing those things. The rule of 00:17:05.869 --> 00:17:08.849 thumb is that that joint is always perpendicular 00:17:08.849 --> 00:17:11.630 to the cooling surface. So if the cooling surface 00:17:11.630 --> 00:17:14.390 is changing, then your joint is going to change 00:17:14.390 --> 00:17:17.710 and rotate. And so. You know, that's one of the 00:17:17.710 --> 00:17:20.490 really also the neat things. It wasn't the case 00:17:20.490 --> 00:17:24.170 2400 years ago, but in Western Canada, where 00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:27.769 we've had glaciations, you see so many of these 00:17:27.769 --> 00:17:31.029 different features where, yeah, you've had lavas 00:17:31.029 --> 00:17:33.890 come into contact with glaciers. And in fact, 00:17:33.970 --> 00:17:36.769 just a little bit to the south near Whistler, 00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:39.430 there's some amazing lava flows that we think 00:17:39.430 --> 00:17:43.089 are like lava eskers that flowed into either 00:17:43.089 --> 00:17:46.410 beneath glaciers or maybe even to glacial curves. 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:49.339 crevasses, and you can see these incredible changes 00:17:49.339 --> 00:17:52.539 in orientation of those joints and the sizes 00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:55.460 of those joints. So some really neat stuff. Okay, 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:59.279 so the last eruption, about 2 ,400 years ago, 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.380 was smaller but similar to Mount St. Helens' 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.539 1980 eruption. Its dome, instead of being in 00:18:05.539 --> 00:18:08.619 a central crater, was off to the side of a hillside, 00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:11.579 so it ended up being too steep, and eventually 00:18:11.579 --> 00:18:14.740 that dome failed, filled the valley, created 00:18:14.740 --> 00:18:18.500 a lake, which then overtopped and broke that 00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:22.500 dam, that landslide, as I'll call it. And that 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:25.140 was the last eruption. So what does the future 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:28.519 hold for Mount Meagher? Well, and that's what 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:31.400 we're trying to figure out, because one of the 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:36.099 challenges in volcanology is trying to forecast 00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:39.599 the future. So what we always try to do then 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:43.130 is if you... want to get a hint of what might 00:18:43.130 --> 00:18:44.769 be happening in the future. Well, you look to 00:18:44.769 --> 00:18:48.390 the past. So some recent work with Kelly and 00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:53.230 his team, we were able to put some dates on some 00:18:53.230 --> 00:18:57.630 using isotopes on an earlier eruption about 24 00:18:57.630 --> 00:19:01.710 ,000 years ago. And it was the same kind of eruption. 00:19:01.789 --> 00:19:05.490 It formed one of these block and ash flows. And 00:19:05.490 --> 00:19:08.569 in that case, 24 ,000 years ago, there were glaciers 00:19:08.569 --> 00:19:10.910 in that valley. So we're fairly certain that 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:14.569 the flow went right across the top of the glacier, 00:19:14.869 --> 00:19:18.150 the valley glacier, and glued itself up onto 00:19:18.150 --> 00:19:21.170 the far side of the river valley. So we've got 00:19:21.170 --> 00:19:23.990 two eruptions that we have dates on. We need 00:19:23.990 --> 00:19:30.630 much better resolution. So in lacking that, some 00:19:30.630 --> 00:19:33.329 of the work that my team have done in the past 00:19:33.329 --> 00:19:36.079 is to... take some scenarios and say, well, if 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.920 we had an eruption in the future, if it was a 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:41.519 little one, what could we expect? If it was a 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:43.920 medium -sized one, what could we expect? And 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.119 if it was a papa bear, well, yeah, what would 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:52.019 we look for? And so in all likelihood, a future 00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:56.119 reactivation of Meagher would involve something 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:59.000 similar, some kind of a probable dome growth. 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.339 Maybe because it is still capped with glaciers, 00:20:03.339 --> 00:20:05.920 although the glaciers are in pretty terrible 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:10.859 shape because of changing climate, what we call 00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:15.140 phreatic eruptions, so steam bursts if we've 00:20:15.140 --> 00:20:18.700 got heat coming up close to the surface. Maybe 00:20:18.700 --> 00:20:24.519 some small explosions if the system were to build 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:29.009 up. But right now, we are in sort of a background 00:20:29.009 --> 00:20:31.869 level. There are hot springs at the base of the 00:20:31.869 --> 00:20:35.869 volcano. And a few years ago, working with some 00:20:35.869 --> 00:20:42.289 expert speleologists, expert ice cave, actually, 00:20:42.329 --> 00:20:45.529 they work in cave search and rescue. They went 00:20:45.529 --> 00:20:49.589 in into these ice caves where there is volcanic 00:20:49.589 --> 00:20:54.250 gases coming from Meagher and were able to sample. 00:20:54.910 --> 00:20:58.809 and measure what we call fumaroles, so these 00:20:58.809 --> 00:21:02.210 volcanic vents. And the temperatures are about 00:21:02.210 --> 00:21:04.650 90 degrees Celsius, which is sort of the boiling 00:21:04.650 --> 00:21:08.009 temperature at that elevation, about 2 ,000 meters, 00:21:08.230 --> 00:21:12.009 2 ,200 meters. So it's low -level activity right 00:21:12.009 --> 00:21:16.309 now, but this mountain's been active for 2 million 00:21:16.309 --> 00:21:19.410 years. So looking forward, we've got to start 00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:21.890 monitoring the volcano, and that's a challenge. 00:21:22.630 --> 00:21:25.470 Okay, well. You've answered kind of my whole 00:21:25.470 --> 00:21:28.029 question about the next thing. But it does bring 00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:30.990 up another important kind of suggestion because 00:21:30.990 --> 00:21:33.529 I know every once in a while you'll see Mount 00:21:33.529 --> 00:21:35.569 Meager kind of in the local news, obviously not 00:21:35.569 --> 00:21:37.329 the international news because it's not erupting, 00:21:37.349 --> 00:21:40.329 with something like, oh my gosh, we found another 00:21:40.329 --> 00:21:42.910 vent. Is it getting active type thing? Only locally, 00:21:43.069 --> 00:21:46.170 only through journalism. But I guess that comes 00:21:46.170 --> 00:21:48.730 down to the fact that we just don't monitor it 00:21:48.730 --> 00:21:52.819 very well, hey? Nope. At the moment, the only 00:21:52.819 --> 00:21:55.779 monitoring that we have, well, there's sort of 00:21:55.779 --> 00:22:00.539 two things. We have one station up on a ridge 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:04.359 looking at what's called Jobe Glacier. And this 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:07.779 is where there are these basically ice caves 00:22:07.779 --> 00:22:10.420 that have been formed by the volcanic gases. 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.240 melting away and also the glacier thinning because 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:17.579 of warming climate. So that's one station. We've 00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:21.680 got a couple of cameras and a small seismometer. 00:22:21.859 --> 00:22:25.579 That's not very effective. We have, thankfully, 00:22:25.779 --> 00:22:30.400 satellite monitoring now in place. Natural Resources 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:35.779 Canada are using a special type of radar satellite 00:22:35.779 --> 00:22:40.119 monitoring to look for changes in surface deformation 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:44.680 so that's in SAR in SAR yeah so yeah just just 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.079 for the listeners that's where you take a couple 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.140 of pictures and you compare the two pictures 00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:51.180 and then you're looking for phase difference 00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:53.740 from a laser essentially bouncing off I'm simplifying 00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:55.559 a lot but you're looking for a difference in 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.740 the length distance between the two satellite 00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:02.019 images there and it can be accurate down to it 00:23:02.019 --> 00:23:04.059 depends on how you do it but it can be about 00:23:04.059 --> 00:23:07.049 half a centimeter yep And especially if you keep 00:23:07.049 --> 00:23:09.950 measuring over time and get repeat measurements, 00:23:10.170 --> 00:23:12.869 then you can start. It's challenging in Canada 00:23:12.869 --> 00:23:16.150 because of forests, because of steep slopes, 00:23:16.470 --> 00:23:20.789 all sorts of things. But that's now a semi -routine 00:23:20.789 --> 00:23:24.829 monitoring system. But beyond that, as with any 00:23:24.829 --> 00:23:27.230 kind of volcano monitoring, we never rely on 00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:30.130 just one technique. We want to have multiple 00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:35.079 layered approaches. we really need to have on 00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:37.319 -the -ground seismometers. And that's really 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:39.960 the challenge, to measure those tiny earthquakes 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:44.619 that might be generated by movement of magma, 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:48.680 changes in the hot hydrothermal fluids that are 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.319 within the volcano. And the more important thing 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.480 right now, given Meagher's sort of non -volcanic 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.960 activity, is the landslides. It is the site. 00:24:01.309 --> 00:24:05.029 of Canada's largest ever landslide in 2010. And 00:24:05.029 --> 00:24:10.190 so there are, again, former work by one of our 00:24:10.190 --> 00:24:15.650 former research students here identified at least 00:24:15.650 --> 00:24:20.789 25 slopes on the volcano massif that are moving. 00:24:20.950 --> 00:24:25.589 And this is because the volcano is altered. And 00:24:25.589 --> 00:24:28.589 so there's unstable ground there. So we're trying 00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:32.259 to... uh to understand those areas and better 00:24:32.259 --> 00:24:34.839 map them but we need to be monitoring that so 00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:36.660 that's what we're hoping to start to be building 00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:39.960 out this coming summer in fact you talk too fast 00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.680 glenn okay yeah i'm joking i'm joking i just 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:45.000 didn't get a chance to get in there with another 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:47.440 question yeah because now i want to move on to 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.480 the actual landslides but i still feel like i 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:51.740 need to go back you did mention there was one 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.480 seismometer currently there yeah and i guess 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.259 is it close enough to be able to pick up tremor 00:24:58.259 --> 00:25:00.619 and that kind of stuff if it were to happen the 00:25:00.619 --> 00:25:02.920 the little seismometer that we've got it could 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.519 but because of its location it's it's really 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:10.180 too noisy that's what you mean by it's not a 00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:12.559 very good station and we mentioned it it's just 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.579 because ground is not good yeah look listeners 00:25:16.579 --> 00:25:18.680 sometimes you really want to make sure that your 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:21.480 seismometer is directly installed into bedrock 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.579 or something. Because if you're into certain 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:25.920 types of sediment, that sediment can shift. It 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:28.839 can also pick up vibrations from wind a lot easier. 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.839 And it can be a very noisy station if it's not 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:35.700 right on bedrock or a good substrate. So that's, 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:37.539 I guess, what we're talking about here. Although 00:25:37.539 --> 00:25:39.920 I did not know that. I'm just putting it together. 00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:41.400 But I really want to get into the landslides 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:45.160 because I think that is really the real danger 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.460 probably in our lifetimes from this volcano, 00:25:47.779 --> 00:25:50.680 right? Like it's not... Of course, it could start 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.980 getting the activity to erupt in the near future, 00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:56.180 but it's much more likely to fall down on us. 00:25:56.460 --> 00:26:00.700 Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, the 00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:04.940 2010 landslide is the largest in Canadian history. 00:26:05.299 --> 00:26:08.119 So, you know, this was... Even bigger than the 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:10.400 Hope slide and the one on the crow's nest? Yep. 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:14.500 This was, the recent work suggests it was 53 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:19.519 million cubic meters. So that is about... 20 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:24.119 times the volume of the pyramids, the Great Pyramids 00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:27.119 of Cheops. I didn't bother figuring out how many 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:31.140 swimming pools that was. But, you know, a huge 00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:35.359 volume, absolutely huge volume. And that landslide 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:39.640 came down on the south side of Mount Meagher, 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:43.660 went into a river there called Meagher Creek, 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:49.869 and then dammed the river. And so it forced evacuation 00:26:49.869 --> 00:26:54.549 of, I believe, 1 ,500 people downstream in the 00:26:54.549 --> 00:26:56.990 area of what's called Pemberton Meadows and actually 00:26:56.990 --> 00:27:01.529 the village of Pemberton. And there is continual 00:27:01.529 --> 00:27:07.390 movement on the whole Massif because of landslide 00:27:07.390 --> 00:27:11.750 activity. That Big 2010, it's so big, it's having 00:27:11.750 --> 00:27:17.579 long -term impacts on the downstream. component 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:19.940 because of flooding, because of the sediment 00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:24.160 moving down. But we know that it continues to 00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:28.640 have small rockfalls and landslides. And in fact, 00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:33.319 just two years ago, with our one sort of on the 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:35.619 ground monitoring station and the two cameras 00:27:35.619 --> 00:27:38.799 and this little seismometer that's not so good 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.400 for volcano monitoring, we just by good luck 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:47.069 picked up a rockfall that ended up Running the 00:27:47.069 --> 00:27:49.630 numbers, we figured it out as about 200 ,000 00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:53.950 cubic meters. So not as big by any means as the 00:27:53.950 --> 00:27:57.950 2010 failure, but still a sizable event. And 00:27:57.950 --> 00:28:02.150 that was just above where the fumaroles are located. 00:28:02.490 --> 00:28:05.509 And so this rockfall actually flowed, turned 00:28:05.509 --> 00:28:09.329 into a debris flow. It scooted across the glacier 00:28:09.329 --> 00:28:13.130 and down the valley and didn't quite... get far 00:28:13.130 --> 00:28:17.250 enough to enter the um the lillooet river but 00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:20.710 it just goes to show that these are our major 00:28:20.710 --> 00:28:25.150 challenges uh for for this volcano so why does 00:28:25.150 --> 00:28:27.970 it want to fall down though What makes it so 00:28:27.970 --> 00:28:30.190 hazardous? Because it's not every mountain tries 00:28:30.190 --> 00:28:32.230 to fall down on us all the time like this one 00:28:32.230 --> 00:28:35.609 does. This one, it's because of its volcanic 00:28:35.609 --> 00:28:39.190 history. So this long -lived history, 2 million 00:28:39.190 --> 00:28:43.309 years of activity, 1 .9 if you want to argue 00:28:43.309 --> 00:28:49.940 the details, but over that 2 million years, You've 00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:52.380 had all of these fluids, you know, I mentioned 00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:56.079 sort of hydrothermal fluids, hot water coming 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.339 around the magma at depth. And a lot of the time, 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.759 these fluids are acidic. And so that those fluids 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.099 and any acid gases are percolating their way 00:29:07.099 --> 00:29:11.420 through the mountain. altering that rock that 00:29:11.420 --> 00:29:14.000 rock that typically is actually fairly strong 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.019 but turning it more into like essentially changing 00:29:18.019 --> 00:29:23.859 its chemistry into much weaker rock that is more 00:29:23.859 --> 00:29:26.400 like a clay and so if you go out and dig in your 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.240 garden you can see how that clay when it's compacted 00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:32.140 could be you know quite hard but you get in there 00:29:32.140 --> 00:29:35.079 you can smear it around with your you know with 00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.740 your fingers so If now you've over time, over 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:43.900 geologic time, turned these rocks into clay or 00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:47.059 lots of parts of it, then you've made it weaker. 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.000 And then on top of it, we've got glaciers. So 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.259 in the Canadian context, we've had long periods 00:29:54.259 --> 00:29:59.519 of glaciation and the surface glaciers on the 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:03.299 mountain are changing and interacting with the 00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:07.529 mountain and making it weaker. And so then it's 00:30:07.529 --> 00:30:13.329 just gravity. Right. OK, one more really hardcore 00:30:13.329 --> 00:30:16.690 science question, because I got I mean, I kind 00:30:16.690 --> 00:30:19.089 of know the answer to it because I was your student. 00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:21.390 I would have been a poor student if I hadn't 00:30:21.390 --> 00:30:24.789 already had my own thoughts on this. But just 00:30:24.789 --> 00:30:27.769 not that long ago, something similar came out 00:30:27.769 --> 00:30:32.549 across kind of the science media where glaciers, 00:30:32.549 --> 00:30:38.619 the rapid removal of glacier ice. can cause or 00:30:38.619 --> 00:30:42.039 destabilize magma chambers because you're removing 00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:44.160 all that mass. And I already think I'm doing 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.779 a better job of explaining it than some of the 00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:48.380 science media that I read. But if we have this 00:30:48.380 --> 00:30:51.720 very large edifice or relatively large edifice, 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:55.140 and it can have very large landslides, you're 00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:58.440 moving a lot of mass very, very quickly. Is that 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:01.059 having a potential knock -on effect to the volcanic 00:31:01.059 --> 00:31:05.900 hazards as well? It could. So in this case, the 00:31:05.900 --> 00:31:10.480 ice that is up there now is so thin that the 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:13.720 change, if we just melted all of the ice off 00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.759 Mount Meagher tomorrow, that change, removing 00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.500 that weight is going to be actually pretty minor 00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:24.640 in the scheme of things. If we were in Iceland 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.240 and we had a kilometer or maybe two kilometers 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:29.440 of ice and we removed that, all of a sudden, 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:34.099 different situation. However... There is interesting 00:31:34.099 --> 00:31:38.339 work suggesting that if you remove those glaciers 00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:40.500 because of changing climate, because of warmer 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:44.940 temperatures, there's a debuttracing effect in 00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:47.740 the sense that that glacier is helping support 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:52.380 the slope. And again, there's still some details 00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:57.069 in there, how strong is that relationship. But 00:31:57.069 --> 00:32:01.250 one of the sort of thought experiments that we're 00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:05.349 quite interested in looking into is to say, if 00:32:05.349 --> 00:32:10.730 we had another really big landslide like the 00:32:10.730 --> 00:32:14.990 2010, or maybe bigger still, it's in fact possible, 00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:20.150 if the unfortunate dominoes lined up, that you 00:32:20.150 --> 00:32:24.990 could lose maybe something even 10 times. larger 00:32:24.990 --> 00:32:29.990 in volume than the 2010 failure. If that were 00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:33.910 to happen, and this is where we need to do some 00:32:33.910 --> 00:32:37.630 sort of computer modeling, is that change, if 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:41.630 you have a massive landslide, could that pressure 00:32:41.630 --> 00:32:45.869 change be enough to actually pull the cork, take 00:32:45.869 --> 00:32:49.190 the top off your pressure cooker and trigger 00:32:49.190 --> 00:32:52.950 a volcanic eruption? So this is something, again, 00:32:53.029 --> 00:32:56.589 that a former PhD student had put out as a thought 00:32:56.589 --> 00:33:01.269 experiment with some sort of advanced but still 00:33:01.269 --> 00:33:05.609 fairly sort of limited modeling. That's an area 00:33:05.609 --> 00:33:07.990 that we're quite interested in trying to further 00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:11.650 explore. What would it take? So in the case of 00:33:11.650 --> 00:33:14.109 Meagher, just melting off the ice is not going 00:33:14.109 --> 00:33:18.230 to do it. But if we had a truly massive landslide, 00:33:18.569 --> 00:33:21.890 That might be enough. But we actually need to 00:33:21.890 --> 00:33:24.809 do the geophysical modeling and the numerical 00:33:24.809 --> 00:33:28.730 modeling to pin that down. And a lot of dominoes 00:33:28.730 --> 00:33:30.670 have to be lined up for that to happen. That 00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:34.789 magma would need to be primed and ready to go. 00:33:35.710 --> 00:33:37.930 But we know that there's lots of it down there. 00:33:38.349 --> 00:33:41.289 We don't have a handle on the numbers, but it's 00:33:41.289 --> 00:33:43.990 there. When you get the numbers, whoever does 00:33:43.990 --> 00:33:46.509 it needs to come back on the show. Oh, yeah. 00:33:46.750 --> 00:33:48.269 Because, I mean, you're going to be all over 00:33:48.269 --> 00:33:50.549 the media locally anyway, once you come up with 00:33:50.549 --> 00:33:52.710 that paper. They're going to be like asking you 00:33:52.710 --> 00:33:54.609 for all kinds of things. Well, see, this is other 00:33:54.609 --> 00:33:56.369 dominoes that have to line up. I need to line 00:33:56.369 --> 00:33:59.650 up the right person and the right funding and 00:33:59.650 --> 00:34:02.190 then the right, you know, modeling. And maybe 00:34:02.190 --> 00:34:04.430 we can basically show that actually this is not 00:34:04.430 --> 00:34:07.109 a problem. You know, that the change would have 00:34:07.109 --> 00:34:10.250 to be so extreme as it's just incredibly unlikely. 00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:13.289 Or be so close to eruption that the point is 00:34:13.289 --> 00:34:16.469 kind of moved. It really doesn't matter. It was 00:34:16.469 --> 00:34:19.010 going to erupt anyway. It just triggers it. Yeah. 00:34:19.449 --> 00:34:22.230 Okay. So what about the average person? So we're 00:34:22.230 --> 00:34:24.989 all talking here, science and, you know, this 00:34:24.989 --> 00:34:28.389 is what we've kind of sort of dedicated our life 00:34:28.389 --> 00:34:31.309 or at least large, you know, chunks of our life 00:34:31.309 --> 00:34:33.650 to. What about the average person living in BC 00:34:33.650 --> 00:34:36.130 or around these volcanoes? Do they have, are 00:34:36.130 --> 00:34:39.690 they recognize these hazards? they are starting 00:34:39.690 --> 00:34:43.010 to recognize these hazards. And in fact, work 00:34:43.010 --> 00:34:47.150 by one of my recently graduated PhD students, 00:34:47.309 --> 00:34:51.710 Uyen Pan, has actually been out to try to explore. 00:34:51.929 --> 00:34:55.829 And in fact, you and I, we were both very much 00:34:55.829 --> 00:34:59.110 under this assumption, faulty assumption, that 00:34:59.110 --> 00:35:00.769 Canadians didn't know anything about volcanoes, 00:35:00.989 --> 00:35:03.349 that they didn't have. Well, in fact, Uyen's 00:35:03.349 --> 00:35:07.369 research suggests that in fact, people broadly 00:35:08.139 --> 00:35:10.460 do understand that we've got volcanism because 00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:13.179 they understand the idea of plate tectonics and 00:35:13.179 --> 00:35:15.719 the ring of fire. But it's in, you know, getting 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:19.579 into the subtleties of things like volcanic hazards. 00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:23.159 Are you dealing with a lava flow versus a pyroclastic 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:27.260 density current versus ashfall? Those are details 00:35:27.260 --> 00:35:33.019 that still need more education. You know, as 00:35:33.019 --> 00:35:36.280 a scientist, we know what the implications are, 00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:40.219 but there are some interesting challenges that 00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:44.739 UEN study, for example, when communicating with 00:35:44.739 --> 00:35:49.460 emergency managers, there's a misconception on 00:35:49.460 --> 00:35:52.619 the part of the emergency managers that the volcanologists 00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:57.119 will be able to provide long -term warning of 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:01.340 an imminent event. And if we're not monitoring, 00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:04.380 We can't do that. Even if we're monitoring, we 00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:07.440 may not be able to do that. Exactly. So that's 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.159 why there is this push to expand monitoring. 00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:13.420 And if all goes well, we will have our first 00:36:13.420 --> 00:36:17.820 monitoring site set up this coming summer. So 00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:20.610 it'll be a start. But that's only one site. For 00:36:20.610 --> 00:36:23.170 sure. And just for listeners, like normally at 00:36:23.170 --> 00:36:25.550 a volcano that hasn't erupted in a very long 00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:29.590 time, you often get precursory activity for weeks 00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:31.789 or months ahead of time. Not years, but usually 00:36:31.789 --> 00:36:35.389 weeks and months as things become destabilized. 00:36:35.389 --> 00:36:38.750 But you can also have it erupt. pretty quickly 00:36:38.750 --> 00:36:41.329 without a whole lot of precursory activity, like 00:36:41.329 --> 00:36:44.130 days to week. And that's not enough time for 00:36:44.130 --> 00:36:47.889 most, I would say, emergency managers to get 00:36:47.889 --> 00:36:50.010 fully up to steam of what's going to happen and 00:36:50.010 --> 00:36:52.630 how to deal with the situation, which is definitely 00:36:52.630 --> 00:36:54.730 a problem if they're just kind of assuming that 00:36:54.730 --> 00:36:58.289 the volcanologists will have time. And in fact, 00:36:58.389 --> 00:37:01.590 you know, in the ideal situation, a bare minimum 00:37:01.590 --> 00:37:07.179 to be monitoring a volcano that is that is active 00:37:07.179 --> 00:37:10.900 but not currently erupting, we should have at 00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:15.179 a bare minimum at least six seismometers around 00:37:15.179 --> 00:37:17.360 the volcano. At the moment, the only seismic 00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.019 network we have is focused on earthquake monitoring 00:37:20.019 --> 00:37:22.480 at the tectonic scale. So it's not sensitive 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:26.780 enough. It's not sort of deployed in the appropriate 00:37:26.780 --> 00:37:31.059 fashion for volcano monitoring. So we don't even 00:37:31.059 --> 00:37:34.920 have one at this stage. But, you know, there 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.179 are some situations. There was an eruption in 00:37:38.179 --> 00:37:41.039 Chile at the volcano called Calbuco where they 00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:44.739 had seismometers around the volcano. They'd been 00:37:44.739 --> 00:37:48.360 monitoring it for many, many years. And the eruption 00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:53.559 happened so fast with almost very, very, very 00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:57.190 little seismic activity beforehand that... They 00:37:57.190 --> 00:38:00.530 didn't detect it until a few hours before it 00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:03.949 erupted. So the locals felt it and self -evacuated. 00:38:04.190 --> 00:38:07.289 So even in the best scenario where you've got 00:38:07.289 --> 00:38:10.809 lots of monitoring, those volcanoes can pull 00:38:10.809 --> 00:38:14.210 some surprises. Each one's got its own personality. 00:38:14.570 --> 00:38:18.030 So every now and then, there'll be a surprise. 00:38:18.269 --> 00:38:20.449 But if we're not monitoring, then we have no 00:38:20.449 --> 00:38:23.690 chance. That's where we have to be going. And 00:38:23.690 --> 00:38:26.650 we're taking baby steps. But we've got a way 00:38:26.650 --> 00:38:31.190 to go. All right. So this is actually part one 00:38:31.190 --> 00:38:33.949 of a two part series, but you're not on. You're 00:38:33.949 --> 00:38:37.929 not the star of the show for part two. So I'm 00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:39.710 going to go out on a limb and see if you can 00:38:39.710 --> 00:38:43.210 plug. Give me a hook for for the next episode. 00:38:43.570 --> 00:38:46.010 So I think the next episode, what is so cool, 00:38:46.150 --> 00:38:51.389 it's about how do we manage these types of events? 00:38:51.469 --> 00:38:55.010 Because we're dealing with a natural. event. 00:38:55.050 --> 00:38:57.449 You're not going to stop a volcanic eruption 00:38:57.449 --> 00:38:59.989 just like you won't stop a hurricane, but you 00:38:59.989 --> 00:39:03.590 can manage the impact. And so some of that is 00:39:03.590 --> 00:39:06.809 about monitoring, but other parts, especially 00:39:06.809 --> 00:39:11.130 in the case of Mount Meagher, is how do you respond 00:39:11.130 --> 00:39:14.769 after the fact? And in the case of Mount Meagher, 00:39:14.869 --> 00:39:18.070 where we've had this huge landslide in 2010, 00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:22.659 What can you do to minimize that impact? And 00:39:22.659 --> 00:39:27.159 some amazing work is being done in terms of nature 00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:32.739 -based solutions to try to reduce the cascading 00:39:32.739 --> 00:39:37.780 hazards of multiple events in a way that's sustainable, 00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:42.599 that's economically sustainable and doesn't involve 00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:47.500 pouring billions of tons of concrete. Yeah. Okay, 00:39:47.539 --> 00:39:51.280 so now is the time to, I guess, call out future 00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:55.099 work. Yeah, future work. I mean, what we need 00:39:55.099 --> 00:39:59.099 to do in all of the Canadian volcanoes, but in 00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:03.340 volcanoes worldwide, is be able to better understand... 00:40:04.300 --> 00:40:07.940 those precursor signals that you mentioned. And 00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:10.119 so there's really neat work that can be done 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:14.159 using advanced AI techniques, machine learning. 00:40:14.260 --> 00:40:18.039 In Canada proper, we need to be doing more work 00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:21.679 to understand what has happened in the past as 00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:26.179 we start to monitor. And so some really neat 00:40:26.179 --> 00:40:30.900 work looking at the rocks from past eruptions 00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:34.719 and dialing in. Where did that magma go? How 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:37.739 long did it sit there before it erupted? These 00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:41.699 kinds of things. While also doing the planning 00:40:41.699 --> 00:40:45.760 and the communication. And so, yes, we're fortunate 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:49.500 to have, in fact, a recently funded grant that'll 00:40:49.500 --> 00:40:54.219 continue both expanding the monitoring at MIGR 00:40:54.219 --> 00:40:59.260 over the next four to five years, but also seeing 00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:04.250 about how we go around. really working collaboratively 00:41:04.250 --> 00:41:07.650 with communities who are potentially at risk 00:41:07.650 --> 00:41:10.949 from these natural hazards. And I think that's 00:41:10.949 --> 00:41:14.090 a really interesting area that hasn't had much 00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:17.050 work. So this is going to be fun. More than anything, 00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:18.809 it's also going to be really important to get 00:41:18.809 --> 00:41:22.750 this work done. Absolutely. Maybe that's why 00:41:22.750 --> 00:41:25.469 I was so drawn to natural hazards as a young 00:41:25.469 --> 00:41:27.820 kid, because I realized... more than just being 00:41:27.820 --> 00:41:30.480 awesome about looking at volcanoes and poking 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:33.039 lava with a stick is like some of the things 00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:35.800 that you learn have real world implications directly 00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:37.960 without even having to go into the nuance of 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.690 it all which is awesome and and it's When I was 00:41:42.690 --> 00:41:47.690 a grad student working on a volcano in Nicaragua, 00:41:47.869 --> 00:41:52.469 one of the key things was that realization, yes, 00:41:52.869 --> 00:41:55.150 I get to come down and I get to do exciting science 00:41:55.150 --> 00:41:58.809 and learn new things, but I'm not living next 00:41:58.809 --> 00:42:01.369 to this volcano and dealing with the day -to 00:42:01.369 --> 00:42:06.309 -day impacts of long -term volcanic activity. 00:42:07.099 --> 00:42:10.920 And so that's a it's eye opening. And so, you 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.940 know, your point is really important. Can we 00:42:13.940 --> 00:42:16.820 can we help those people who are living next 00:42:16.820 --> 00:42:19.920 to volcanoes live, continue to live there, but 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:24.099 in a safe way? And that means having plans, you 00:42:24.099 --> 00:42:27.460 know, if there is an eruption and having the 00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:31.139 ability to know to forecast that one may be imminent. 00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:34.059 Yeah. So maybe this is a good you brought it 00:42:34.059 --> 00:42:36.519 up again. Messiah volcano. that was the first 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:38.840 episode of this season i i made you listen to 00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:44.980 it yeah yeah i know it's fun you know um anything 00:42:44.980 --> 00:42:46.960 you want to add i like you got it and if you 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:48.219 haven't listened to it and you've listened to 00:42:48.219 --> 00:42:49.539 this one you got to go back and listen to that 00:42:49.539 --> 00:42:53.000 one uh we i took a very high level kind of approach 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:55.539 glenn's like i'm gonna make my fourth years listen 00:42:55.539 --> 00:42:59.059 to it as kind of like a review I didn't put it 00:42:59.059 --> 00:43:01.480 on the exam, though. You didn't? Well, there's 00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:05.019 always next year. But I think the key thing with 00:43:05.019 --> 00:43:10.440 the Messiah episode that you brought up that 00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:14.099 is really important is when we're communicating 00:43:14.099 --> 00:43:18.679 to the broader public, there's this, oh, yes, 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.880 all basaltic volcanoes look like Kilauea. Well, 00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:24.179 of course they don't because everyone is different. 00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:28.980 And the fact that... a volcano like Masaya can 00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:32.840 have these incredibly large eruptions, like explosive 00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:37.659 eruptions. It's not just nice, passive, runny 00:43:37.659 --> 00:43:42.340 lava that is safe. These systems are far more 00:43:42.340 --> 00:43:48.400 complex than we initially thought. And so that's 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:51.780 where the science is interesting. And again, 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.900 why it's also so important to... you know, be 00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:58.159 communicating to the public that it's, you know, 00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:01.320 the devil is in the details. For sure. And part 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:04.519 of the reason why this whole podcast got launched, 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:07.539 it's not the only reason, was a brainchild of 00:44:07.539 --> 00:44:10.340 mine that we are still going to work on without 00:44:10.340 --> 00:44:12.119 getting too much in the details, but looking 00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:16.559 at very large runny type eruptions of basalt 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:19.519 and how quickly they happen. How quickly can 00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:24.590 they inflate? How much gas do they produce? And 00:44:24.590 --> 00:44:27.769 I guess we're still looking at like three to 00:44:27.769 --> 00:44:30.150 four years away from being able to do that work. 00:44:30.309 --> 00:44:32.369 Yeah. Well, we'll have to be patient on that 00:44:32.369 --> 00:44:35.030 project, unfortunately. Yeah, it sucks, but it 00:44:35.030 --> 00:44:37.650 is what it is. And I honestly can't wait because 00:44:37.650 --> 00:44:41.269 this entire feed, it'll be several episodes all 00:44:41.269 --> 00:44:43.510 at once, probably all about the same thing. Hopefully 00:44:43.510 --> 00:44:46.809 at some point, maybe we'll even do like a before 00:44:46.809 --> 00:44:50.610 middle, like before, during and after. So that 00:44:50.610 --> 00:44:52.710 way you guys, the listeners, whenever we get 00:44:52.710 --> 00:44:55.389 around to it and. the stars align. I'm pretty 00:44:55.389 --> 00:44:58.090 sure it'll happen, though, can actually follow 00:44:58.090 --> 00:45:00.550 along the beginning, the middle and the end of 00:45:00.550 --> 00:45:03.210 how one of these science projects actually come 00:45:03.210 --> 00:45:05.969 together. Because I think that's a bit eye opening 00:45:05.969 --> 00:45:09.550 for people that have just because life is life. 00:45:09.610 --> 00:45:11.730 It is no one. Not everyone can be a scientist. 00:45:11.809 --> 00:45:13.829 Not everyone can be able to go through one of 00:45:13.829 --> 00:45:16.449 these things and take them from start to finish. 00:45:16.469 --> 00:45:18.949 So I think it'll be an interesting project for 00:45:18.949 --> 00:45:20.590 you guys to listen to and for us to conduct. 00:45:21.309 --> 00:45:23.809 Yeah. And I think that one take home is science, 00:45:23.989 --> 00:45:27.489 like so much in life, involves a lot of patience. 00:45:27.889 --> 00:45:31.849 Oh, gosh. Yes. Yes. Yes. Backing to the Messiah 00:45:31.849 --> 00:45:34.530 episode again, picking crystals out of Petri 00:45:34.530 --> 00:45:38.630 dishes. Yeah. Yeah. OK. But we're here at the 00:45:38.630 --> 00:45:41.789 most infamous part of every episode with a guest. 00:45:42.289 --> 00:45:47.429 Glenn, you have to tell us a science joke. So 00:45:47.429 --> 00:45:51.179 I went hunting and. All of the volcano science 00:45:51.179 --> 00:45:53.880 jokes, I thought they were kind of dumb. This 00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:55.659 is the only type of hunting you'll ever do, right? 00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:59.539 I know, exactly. Except with a cat. But I thought, 00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:03.559 you know, given the scope and the, you know, 00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:07.000 the name of your podcast, I would go with this 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:11.679 one. So, Photon walks into a hotel and asks for 00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:14.960 a room. The front desk attendant says, any luggage? 00:46:15.579 --> 00:46:19.559 Photon replies, me? Nah. I'm traveling light. 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:26.960 Awesome. Awesome. Well, I can almost guarantee 00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:31.679 that Glenn will be on again. So don't provide 00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:33.380 me too much hate because I'm bringing him on 00:46:33.380 --> 00:46:37.280 anyway. Thank you so much for doing this, Glenn. 00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:40.300 My pleasure. This is fun. And there it is. The 00:46:40.300 --> 00:46:44.159 first full episode of the new year out to your 00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:46.420 listening ears. Thanks so much for listening. 00:46:47.019 --> 00:46:50.159 If you haven't all yet, subscribe. Poke me on 00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:53.659 social media. Continue bringing in some of that 00:46:53.659 --> 00:46:56.699 amazing and good feedback. I need it. I need 00:46:56.699 --> 00:46:59.500 to know what listeners want and how that jives 00:46:59.500 --> 00:47:01.800 with where I want to take the show. I did get 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.139 some listener feedback most recently, and I'm 00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:07.179 creating a solo episode just about that topic. 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:10.219 It's amazing. You can have an effect on the show 00:47:10.219 --> 00:47:12.780 and what everybody else gets to hear. In the 00:47:12.780 --> 00:47:16.000 meantime, subscribe, tell a friend. You know 00:47:16.000 --> 00:48:06.420 the drill. See you in two weeks. Chasing down 00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:09.820 wonders Always seeking