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Enjoy the show. Welcome to Soul Decodes. Join

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us as we wander off the path to find the ideas

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that fascinate. We talk about spirituality, the

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mind, the ego, wellness and hidden history with

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tips, travels and tales. Charms for a better

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life. Welcome everybody, you're listening to

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Soul Decodes and it's Friday. November 7th, episode

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64. It's another special guest day. We have a

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really good opportunity here to talk about something

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that we feel is relevant to just so many people.

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Do you agree? I do. Everyone. Yes. So I'm Dr.

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Tia Jolie Phillips and you're listening to Sarah

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Tirri. Sarah, we talked about depression. What's

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your take on just the overall? state of affairs

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with people well what are your thoughts on depression

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well it's a very useful conversation to have

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because everyone at some point has been depressed

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we all know what that feels like so it's a really

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worthwhile discussion and so we we have a we

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have a guest in the house we're still getting

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used to the guest thing but uh we have a guest

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in the house and her name is jess and she's going

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to be remain a little bit anonymous but we're

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going to get the essence of her story out and

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then we'll go from there. But Sarah's going to

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take the lead and just kind of, because we're

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both meeting Jess really for the first time.

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We had a brief conversation, but Sarah's really

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good about getting information out and kind of

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getting the human interest part of this down

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before we go into the details. So have at it,

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Sarah, go for it. So you realize that you were

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depressed. This was three years ago or prior

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to that. And then you decided to take a radical

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measure to. to investigate why that was, to alleviate

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it. Can you just give us a brief rundown of what

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made, because that's quite a big decision to

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partake in, isn't it? Well, thank you so much

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for having me and for having this discussion.

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Also fill in the blanks about how you found out

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about us. What's the connection? For sure. So

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if you heard last week's podcast, you'd know

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that Mike is my brother. And I know he mentioned

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his sister a couple of times. So I figured it'd

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be a good opportunity to come and share. And

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to use this to reach people, you know, it's like

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you said, depression has touched so many people.

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Yeah. I can't think of anyone I know who hasn't

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been depressed. Right. For sure. It's an epidemic.

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And to the human condition. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

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And it hinders so many areas of life. So for

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me, I hit a wall. I was 39 growing up. I never

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could visualize my life as an older person because

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I was so depressed. I never thought that I would

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reach the age of 40. And so at 39, I hit that

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wall and I said, there's, I've got nothing to

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lose. Right. Got everything to gain. And I've

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tried everything. And what was the day to day

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running of your life in this depressed condition?

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Could you still work? Could you raise children?

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Could you hold down relationships? Could you

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tick tock along? It depends. Yeah, it depended

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on the day. There was a lot of fake it till you

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make it. But I never made it. Right. There was

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a lot of faking it. There was a lot of putting

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on that mask of this is who people think I should

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be. This is who I think I should be. I should

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be smiling. I should be happy. A lot of pressure.

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Why not? You know, but inside it wasn't. Didn't

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feel it. I wasn't. And this started at 15 years

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old. So the majority of my life, I had the identity

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of depression. It was a veil. It was a shadow

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that was over me. But you recognized it. So you

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were the watcher of this experience and the participant.

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I recognized it, but I was never in control of

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it ever. Went through all of the motions of trying

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to get help in so many various forms. And a lot

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of things helped, but nothing healed. Nothing

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alleviated it. Nothing healed. You know, at 15,

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I went to the doctor. Because, you know, my parents

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realized something's going on. You're sleeping

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a lot. You're apathetic. You don't want to go

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to school. There's something wrong. So I went

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to my pediatrician and he said, you need to exercise

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more. And was there any truth in that? Sure.

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There's benefits to eating healthy. There's benefits

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to exercise. There's benefits to happy, clean

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living. So did you try that? Did you implement

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that? I tried, but I also left without a... Quote

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unquote prescription. He said exercise. OK, what

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does that mean? I'm 15 years old. Yes, you needed

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more of a plan. And at that time, you know, I

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was I was 12 years old when we got dial up Internet

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at home. The Internet was not what it is today.

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Right. So I didn't have access to a ton of information

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and mental health wasn't talked about the way

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it's talked about now. And it's still not talked

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about. As much as it should be. It's not accepted

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as much as it should be. But we're making advances,

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aren't we? We're making great advances, but we're

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not there. And for me, in the, you know, mid

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to late 90s, that was not the reality. And do

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you think... hand you have listened to conversations

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perhaps like the one that we're having that this

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would have been of benefit to you so what we're

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doing is addressing what you might have needed

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at the time where there's an open conversation

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i'm not feeling the things i should feel that

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a healthy young girl should feel for sure and

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yet you came from an upbringing because your

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brother said that that appeared to be quite normal

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happy on the lake had all these you know it seems

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quite an idyllic child very very i would absolutely

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describe it as idyllic it really was we we I

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grew up in nature. My parents really instilled

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in us, you know, the love of God, the love of

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family, treating each other with kindness, all

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the things. But at 15, call it hormones, call

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it biology, call it, you know, environmental

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factors. You just lost interest. Yeah, just lost

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interest in the whole thing. Yeah. Who knows

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what it was that triggered it, but it was there

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and it latched on and it never went away. Tough.

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It really was. It was. And I... Really struggled,

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you know, as a teenager, trying to make sense

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of what all those things mean. You know, I I

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had a what most people would call a normal young

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adulthood. Yeah, I went to college. I got a job.

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I moved around. I did things. But it was in spite

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of depression. You know, I had to fight my way

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yourself every time. And it got to a point, especially

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in my. early to mid to late 20s where it was

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debilitating i couldn't get out of bed the apathy

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the apathy but then also along with the feelings

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of hopelessness the all the mental aspects you

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would anticipate feeling hopeless um feeling

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down feeling sad all of the things that you could

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equate to mentally also came with physical components

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i couldn't physically get out of bed my whole

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body Had you got dystrophy in your muscles as

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a result of not moving? Had you slept a lot and

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not done any exercise? I mean, your body was

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packing up along with your mind in a way. Yeah,

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my body was definitely holding on and creating

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trauma in itself. And so, you know, it's like

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when you put on a weighted blanket, you know,

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those extra, you know, 15, 20 pounds, whatever

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it is. I tried one of those recently. It was

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horrible. Well, that's what it, that's what it

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feel like in the morning. The weight just not.

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So the effort, there was just so much effort

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just to do something normal. Exerting so much

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effort. I, there were days I couldn't brush my

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teeth. I couldn't get in the shower. My hair

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would hurt like my scalp. I mean, there were

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just pieces of me that were just not functioning

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and it was really painful. Um, and I didn't give

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up hope during that time. I visited doctors,

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therapists. I had a psychiatrist. And at 28,

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I checked myself into a hospital. Oh, did you?

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I did. That was brave of you. Well, I had gotten

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to the point where I didn't trust myself. I didn't

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trust myself to be alone in my house. I didn't

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trust myself. To make decisions for yourself.

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Yeah. I was scared that I could potentially harm

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myself. And so I, you know, with the support

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of my family. said okay this is how do you got

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to the point where you thought of harming yourself

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have you ever been close to suicide or was checking

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yourself into hospital to prevent that it was

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to prevent it but all of the suicidal ideations

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were coming into my mind and i re i i could acknowledge

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you know as you say the watcher i could acknowledge

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this isn't normal thought patterns this isn't

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what how other people function why am I functioning

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this way there must be something wrong or different

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about me and I need to get help and good for

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you because that's a big decision it was the

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backing of your family it was now I can say it

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was a big decision and I am thankful that I did

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it because it gave me that quick time out it

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was a 48 hour stay To know, okay, I don't have

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to worry about anything. I don't have to worry

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about, you know, harming myself, but I also don't

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have to worry about work. I don't have to worry

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about, you know. You could check out. I could

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check out. Under supervised care. Correct. I

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could take a mental time out. However, that facility

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is not something that is built for people dealing

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with depression. It is a facility that's throwing

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everybody in there. So if you're dealing with.

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major psychotic break you've got schizophrenia

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oh really you've got people who are dealing with

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major depression issues and people who are detoxing

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all in the same space wow that's intense and

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it's different those those those maybe require

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different treatments yes and different so I sat

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there thinking I don't belong here but I also

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the best thing for you actually at that point

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I really it was it was like a reality check like

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I don't belong here And I don't have it that

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bad. But I still don't know what's wrong with

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me. Yeah, you haven't investigated it. You know,

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so it was... Oh, that was freaky. It was. It

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was a real... Listening to all those people in

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distress like that. It was hard. It was really

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hard. I took away a couple tips and tools, you

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know, to... you know breathing and you know just

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just some meditation techniques but nothing but

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nothing concrete that alleviated anything so

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that's kind of disappointing it is it is but

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I also left with a depression with a a prescription

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for an SSRI so that's when my path of medicating

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pharmaceutically my depression began and that

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was about 10 years so I was on an SSRI for 10

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years and did that help you initially I think

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it was a stopgap because I had hope. I had hope

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that this was going to work. Hope is a powerful

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thing. I mean, I had hope every time I walked

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into a therapist's office. I had hope every time

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I walked into a doctor's office. I had hope every

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time I took that SSRI that something's going

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to turn around. And isn't SSR an antidepressant?

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That would be the general classification of that.

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I'll go ahead and chime in on this because I

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think, first of all, I want to share with you

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that we admire you for your bravery back then,

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but also now. I think you're doing a major public

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service, showing up here and telling your story.

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I know it's not easy, but I appreciate you doing

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that. The questions that come to my mind as you

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talk about your history were... I understand

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you went through this beautiful upbringing and

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things, but these are questions from a holistic

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natural health doctor. Presumably, you're getting

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fresh air and sunshine and clean foods. But you

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weren't, though, because you were lying in bed.

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Your body was breaking down. Yeah, that's why

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I was curious. I was going to ask that. So when

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you're in bed, was it because you were not eating

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properly or were you eating junk food? What do

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you think was going on there? Because your body...

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You were obviously hungry at some point, right?

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Like you had hunger or not hungry. I mean, I

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have tried different avenues for nutrition. So

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I've tried a vegetarian diet, a vegan diet, mostly

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in my teenage years. But my depression wasn't.

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It was peaks and valleys, you know, not to not

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to like the the manic state. I didn't have the

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bipolar disorder where you have a huge manic

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highs and then those low, low, low. This was

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a low grade, solid depression. I was steady until

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I was low, especially in those teenage years.

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And when I was low, it was. depending on the

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episode, a couple of days, maybe a week. If it

00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:36.049
stretched to two weeks, that was kind of long,

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but I would have gaps in between where I was

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okay. But in my head, I was melancholy. In my

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head, I was sad. But I could function. And I

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wasn't, you know, in the dark in my room constantly.

00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:51.519
So just meeting you for the first time and talking

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to you, you strike me as a very brilliant girl.

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Like you've got a good command of the English

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language. You're logical. You present yourself

00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:02.700
well. It seems to me just intuitively that you

00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:06.990
are a very bright. Oh, sure. I got great, good

00:14:06.990 --> 00:14:09.870
grades. And a lot of times bright, because all

00:14:09.870 --> 00:14:12.190
of us were bright teenagers, all three of us.

00:14:13.669 --> 00:14:16.929
I found that, at least in my youth, being bright

00:14:16.929 --> 00:14:20.309
was also a very lonely place. Did you find the

00:14:20.309 --> 00:14:25.269
same with you? Or did you find that you were

00:14:25.269 --> 00:14:28.009
bright and people were okay with that? No, that's

00:14:28.009 --> 00:14:32.629
fair. I think that there is a loneliness to being...

00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:35.549
the other in any sort of way. I think there's

00:14:35.549 --> 00:14:37.590
a loneliness to being a human being. Yeah. How

00:14:37.590 --> 00:14:39.870
are you the other? What is the other? You know,

00:14:39.870 --> 00:14:43.990
I was kind of the artsy kid in school. You know,

00:14:44.009 --> 00:14:47.730
I wasn't, I played sports. I wasn't good at them,

00:14:47.750 --> 00:14:52.389
but I played, you know, I, I tagged along for

00:14:52.389 --> 00:14:56.779
a lot of things, but I didn't have that. sense

00:14:56.779 --> 00:14:59.220
of self. I didn't have that full understanding

00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:01.639
of who I am. And I don't think a lot of teenagers

00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.580
do. And I'm in all of the ones who have it figured

00:15:04.580 --> 00:15:06.799
out early. And your brother was in the same position

00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.419
at age 17. He had an existential crisis. He had

00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:11.759
no meaning to his life whatsoever. So this is

00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.240
running in the family. Now you said you did 10

00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.840
years on this medicine and it helped initially.

00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:20.299
It did something that alleviated it, but ultimately

00:15:20.299 --> 00:15:23.419
you were just still, you hadn't made the progress

00:15:23.419 --> 00:15:26.440
that you were hoping for. It did something in

00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.259
that I was hopeful that it would cure. I could,

00:15:29.259 --> 00:15:31.059
you know, if I could be on this medication and

00:15:31.059 --> 00:15:35.080
it would cure my, my mental state, it would cure

00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:37.720
my physical state. Then, you know, I was happy

00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.370
to figure it out and go along. I had to change

00:15:41.370 --> 00:15:43.809
medications multiple times. Every time you change

00:15:43.809 --> 00:15:46.309
a medication, it came with its own side effects.

00:15:46.330 --> 00:15:49.549
I would have to increase dosage because my dose

00:15:49.549 --> 00:15:53.230
had stopped working. Or I'd have to add another

00:15:53.230 --> 00:15:57.330
pill onto it to be a booster. So there was always

00:15:57.330 --> 00:16:00.950
these tweaking that were going along. So let

00:16:00.950 --> 00:16:03.470
me kind of dive in here because there's a lot

00:16:03.470 --> 00:16:06.240
of people out there that think. That the SSRI

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.820
does some benefit to you. What does it do? It

00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:11.539
inhibits or enhances something. Well, it doesn't

00:16:11.539 --> 00:16:16.240
enhance anything. Is it a tranquilizer? No. An

00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:19.379
SSRI does not enhance something. It actually

00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:23.820
inhibits something. Is that the I, the inhibitor?

00:16:23.899 --> 00:16:29.659
Yeah. So SSR means selective serotonin reuptake

00:16:29.659 --> 00:16:33.539
inhibitor. What does that mean? Basically...

00:16:33.950 --> 00:16:36.490
It doesn't give you serotonin. Serotonin is that

00:16:36.490 --> 00:16:42.169
neurotransmitter that gives your brain the sense

00:16:42.169 --> 00:16:45.830
that everything's okay. Well -being. Just general

00:16:45.830 --> 00:16:49.210
well -being. Now, it's similar to dopamine. Dopamine

00:16:49.210 --> 00:16:52.309
is the, I'm thrilled to meet you. I'm so excited

00:16:52.309 --> 00:16:54.629
because something is new or novel. Yes, the higher

00:16:54.629 --> 00:16:56.429
level. When I first flew airplanes, I was just

00:16:56.429 --> 00:16:58.750
so excited. It was just this high because it

00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:01.289
was new and exciting and different. I was learning

00:17:01.289 --> 00:17:04.250
new things. That's dopamine. Serotonin is a little

00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:08.869
bit not as up there. So is it the inhibitor removes

00:17:08.869 --> 00:17:11.769
serotonin in order to do what to your consciousness?

00:17:12.069 --> 00:17:17.029
Serotonin is the feel good. Here's the link.

00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:20.930
Holistically, there's two types of serotonin

00:17:20.930 --> 00:17:24.089
that your body has generally. And I'm not a biochemist.

00:17:24.109 --> 00:17:27.710
I don't want to get into that. But S1 is a configuration

00:17:27.710 --> 00:17:31.049
of serotonin that's made in your gut. It's generated

00:17:31.049 --> 00:17:37.210
in your gut. And the purpose of it is to stimulate

00:17:37.210 --> 00:17:41.450
gut motility. What that means is that the smooth

00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:44.369
muscle contraction of your gut The serotonin

00:17:44.369 --> 00:17:47.710
squeezes your guts and it helps you poop, right?

00:17:47.869 --> 00:17:50.750
It basically squeezes the gut so the poop comes

00:17:50.750 --> 00:17:53.849
out. That's basically what S1 does. And if you've

00:17:53.849 --> 00:17:56.109
ever had a really good bowel movement, you have

00:17:56.109 --> 00:17:58.289
this really good feeling that comes over you,

00:17:58.410 --> 00:18:03.730
that's the serotonin in the gut. It's done doing

00:18:03.730 --> 00:18:07.730
its thing and it gets... released into the body

00:18:07.730 --> 00:18:10.609
it gets released into the body and you feel good

00:18:10.609 --> 00:18:13.710
it's a relief so it's done doing its job squeezing

00:18:13.710 --> 00:18:17.369
the gastrointestinal tracts to do its job the

00:18:17.369 --> 00:18:20.750
um the sequential movement of the gut the pair

00:18:20.750 --> 00:18:24.490
the the motility of the it's called the uh peristalsis

00:18:24.490 --> 00:18:27.289
of the gut so it's squeezing the gut but when

00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:30.630
it's done doing its job it's done so it can go

00:18:30.630 --> 00:18:33.630
back into circulation and you can feel good that's

00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:36.720
why people who are constipated are cranky because

00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:41.759
serotonin doesn't get released. It's trying to

00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.140
do its job, but they ate the wrong foods. They

00:18:44.140 --> 00:18:47.839
ate junk food, and they can't poop. That's why

00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.079
the gut and the brain are so intimately connected.

00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:53.799
So the S1 configuration, as soon as you release

00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.500
it, quickly gets transferred. It gets flipped

00:18:56.500 --> 00:18:59.160
over to tryptophan, passes the blood -brain barrier.

00:18:59.930 --> 00:19:02.369
Then it becomes an S2 configuration within your

00:19:02.369 --> 00:19:05.289
brain. The S2 configuration is just a slight

00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:08.529
variance. That becomes the building block for

00:19:08.529 --> 00:19:11.490
your melatonin, which is essential for your deep

00:19:11.490 --> 00:19:13.950
sleep. So that's why your gut and brain are connected.

00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:16.509
So if somebody's not pooping, they don't feel

00:19:16.509 --> 00:19:19.190
good, they don't sleep well. It all starts with

00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:23.410
the gut. So what an SSRI does is it prevents

00:19:23.410 --> 00:19:30.140
the reuptake or the dissolution. or the absorption

00:19:30.140 --> 00:19:36.440
of the serotonin that you're generating. Why

00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.559
is that helpful to someone? Because that feel

00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:45.259
-good that you have stays there. But if the initial

00:19:45.259 --> 00:19:47.579
feel -good's not there, then the SSRI is useless.

00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:51.960
The original serotonin comes from you. Your body

00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:54.920
produces the serotonin. So what I do as a holistic

00:19:54.920 --> 00:20:00.859
doctor is I help people. build their body so

00:20:00.859 --> 00:20:03.640
it produces the serotonin, so it can have good

00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.579
motility, so you can poop well, you can feel

00:20:06.579 --> 00:20:08.579
good, and you can sleep well. And you can make

00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.220
melatonin. And then you can make melatonin. And

00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:13.519
during melatonin, you get the deep REM sleep,

00:20:13.660 --> 00:20:15.960
and that's when your body rest repairs. So you

00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:18.859
have this beautiful healing spiral, but it all

00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:20.380
starts in the gut. But this wasn't naturally

00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:24.220
occurring in Jess. She's given inhibitors. Sometime,

00:20:24.220 --> 00:20:28.109
if you're not producing enough serotonin, the

00:20:28.109 --> 00:20:30.609
little scrap of serotonin that you're actually

00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:32.890
producing, they don't want that to be absorbed.

00:20:32.930 --> 00:20:35.910
They want it to stay in circulation. So instead

00:20:35.910 --> 00:20:39.150
of letting it be absorbed, they use a selective

00:20:39.150 --> 00:20:42.769
serotonin reuptake inhibitor to keep it in circulation

00:20:42.769 --> 00:20:46.049
so it's not resorbed, so you can at least have

00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:48.569
that little bit of stability that the serotonin

00:20:48.569 --> 00:20:50.869
offers. That's probably as far as we need to

00:20:50.869 --> 00:20:54.029
go there. But just the bottom line is, if your

00:20:54.029 --> 00:20:56.690
gut's not working, or it's deficient, or you're

00:20:56.690 --> 00:20:58.670
missing some minerals, or you're missing some...

00:20:58.670 --> 00:21:00.950
And did you have a complete panel with your body

00:21:00.950 --> 00:21:04.250
to see what you were deficient in? Because now

00:21:04.250 --> 00:21:07.450
you would have a complete blood panel. Spoiler

00:21:07.450 --> 00:21:11.710
alert. Modern medicine could care less what your

00:21:11.710 --> 00:21:14.690
enterotype is. The fungus and the bacteria in

00:21:14.690 --> 00:21:18.779
your gut, modern medicine could care less. But

00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:21.119
holistic medicine, if you had known Jess at this

00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:22.539
time, you would have been able to give her this

00:21:22.539 --> 00:21:23.579
information. I would have interviewed her and

00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:25.660
asked her about her. What does she eat? And that

00:21:25.660 --> 00:21:27.740
wasn't available to you. You had none of this

00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:30.279
information. I had none of the information. And,

00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.519
you know, you walk into a doctor's office, a

00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:38.559
traditional practice, and they already have their

00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:42.220
prescription pad out. Now, if an SSRI works for

00:21:42.220 --> 00:21:44.660
somebody. Great. You know, if therapy works for

00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:47.019
somebody, awesome. Like I am not here to say

00:21:47.019 --> 00:21:50.259
that these things don't have a time and a place.

00:21:50.299 --> 00:21:52.759
But for 10 years, you didn't get to where you

00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:53.740
needed to be. But for 10 years, I didn't get

00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:56.480
to where I needed to be. No. And from what I

00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:00.380
now know, SSRIs were never initially created

00:22:00.380 --> 00:22:03.180
for people to be on them for that length of time.

00:22:03.339 --> 00:22:05.980
It was a couple of months. It was to get you

00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:10.819
over the hump to where you could. take all the

00:22:10.819 --> 00:22:13.480
tools in that you need to self -regulate without

00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:16.400
this medication, but it's become prescribed,

00:22:16.619 --> 00:22:18.440
prescribed, prescribed. So take us to the time.

00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:20.380
So you decided, okay, I'm coming off the, I guess

00:22:20.380 --> 00:22:22.279
you had to wean yourself off that. And that was

00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.460
a process. And then you decided that you were

00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:26.740
going to take ayahuasca because you needed something

00:22:26.740 --> 00:22:29.059
radical to take place in your head. Because I

00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:31.059
mean, like I said, the SSRI wasn't working. Happy

00:22:31.059 --> 00:22:33.220
anniversary, by the way, three years today. How

00:22:33.220 --> 00:22:35.559
did you even find out? Like, how did you even

00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:37.779
take us through the process? Because of Mike,

00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:40.170
right? Because of your brother. Yeah. So did

00:22:40.170 --> 00:22:43.009
you know about ayahuasca before Mike? No. Okay.

00:22:43.089 --> 00:22:45.009
So he introduced me to it. So I will say like,

00:22:45.069 --> 00:22:47.910
just to go back on the SSRI real quickly, what

00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:53.049
it did was make me robotic. I was a robot. I

00:22:53.049 --> 00:22:56.829
had feelings when I felt real low. Cause I still

00:22:56.829 --> 00:22:59.230
got the super lows. Even with this medication,

00:22:59.490 --> 00:23:03.170
I could not feel happiness. I could not cry.

00:23:04.059 --> 00:23:07.259
Unless I was in a very, very low state. I couldn't

00:23:07.259 --> 00:23:09.799
feel emotion. I couldn't, I was not happy. I

00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:12.240
couldn't feel happy. It just, it just created

00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.759
this numbness. And I was tired of being numb.

00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.740
I got to the point where I was so tired. Really

00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:22.799
boring. Yeah. You know, I, I wrote in my journal,

00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:25.779
I looked back on it prior to us talking and I

00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:28.539
looked back to that timeframe and I wrote in

00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:31.160
my journal, like I am at the point. Where I'm

00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:33.839
done with a day before it is done. Done, yeah.

00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.500
And I'm ready to just go to sleep. Yeah, you're

00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:38.180
looking forward to that. And try again tomorrow.

00:23:38.259 --> 00:23:41.660
It was always a let's try again. It was not this

00:23:41.660 --> 00:23:44.140
looking forward to the next day. It was, okay,

00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:48.700
it's coming. Let's battle through it. I just

00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:52.779
hit that wall. So Mike said to you, ayahuasca

00:23:52.779 --> 00:23:54.859
is something. So did you start doing your own

00:23:54.859 --> 00:23:57.700
research? Yes, he presented it to our family

00:23:57.700 --> 00:24:01.400
about six years before we actually pulled the

00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.259
trigger to go. Yes, because he had a kid, didn't

00:24:03.259 --> 00:24:07.619
he? Yes, he was ready to go to the gym. He was

00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:11.779
ready to go and he found out that my niece was

00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:14.680
on the way. That's okay, that's timing. It wasn't

00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:18.019
the right time for him. That's right. this thing

00:24:18.019 --> 00:24:20.839
with ayahuasca that people say you know like

00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:23.819
you will get the call you will know when it's

00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:25.700
time yes you will know when it's time for you

00:24:25.700 --> 00:24:30.279
and I had gotten to that hopeless point and I

00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:32.539
I looked at everything that I had done and I

00:24:32.539 --> 00:24:35.500
said none of this is working and so I did some

00:24:35.500 --> 00:24:39.549
research um And thankfully, you know, now there's

00:24:39.549 --> 00:24:41.670
so many more things out there. There's documentaries,

00:24:42.109 --> 00:24:44.269
there's books and there's podcasts. And so I

00:24:44.269 --> 00:24:46.450
was able to absorb all the information and take

00:24:46.450 --> 00:24:49.369
it in and make a decision. And I balanced and

00:24:49.369 --> 00:24:52.539
weighed. What is the best option for me? Because

00:24:52.539 --> 00:24:54.059
there are other things. I think you'd got to

00:24:54.059 --> 00:24:56.420
the point, though, where it was shit or bust.

00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.640
You were so depressed and so numb. Completely.

00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:00.359
It didn't really matter what was going to happen.

00:25:00.500 --> 00:25:02.339
Even if you'd have got freaked out, it would

00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:04.579
have still been better than this robotic. 100%.

00:25:04.579 --> 00:25:06.619
I was ready to lay it all out on the line because

00:25:06.619 --> 00:25:10.200
I had nothing to lose. But there were other therapies.

00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.640
There's ketamine therapy. And I looked into that

00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:17.569
and balancing how much it costs. um that it's

00:25:17.569 --> 00:25:20.589
not a natural substance and that you could potentially

00:25:20.589 --> 00:25:22.829
get addicted to the substance coming out of it

00:25:22.829 --> 00:25:24.490
i said okay that's not for me no you'd already

00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:26.910
been on this stuff for 10 years so we covered

00:25:26.910 --> 00:25:29.930
last last week we talked about iboga yeah did

00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.750
you even consider iboga iboga was not on my radar

00:25:32.750 --> 00:25:36.880
okay so um as far as psychedelics go And ayahuasca

00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.160
was on my radar. And I think it's because that's

00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.480
the one I was meant to do. And to be clear, nobody,

00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:44.940
this whole process, nobody ever talked to you

00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:47.859
about what do you eat? How do you sleep? No alternative.

00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:51.660
Nothing about, because right now. Absolutely

00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:54.640
not. Have you ever heard of no tropics? Okay.

00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.569
No tropics. N -O -O tropics. There's mushroom

00:25:58.569 --> 00:26:01.210
blends and things like the energy drink I gave

00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:03.650
you, Sarah, the energy drink that's got no tropics

00:26:03.650 --> 00:26:07.390
in it. Our greens have no tropics. These are

00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:11.009
plant -based extracts, a lot of them from mushrooms,

00:26:11.130 --> 00:26:13.710
some from roots, but they have a very profound

00:26:13.710 --> 00:26:17.849
ability to normalize the brain. I talked to three

00:26:17.849 --> 00:26:20.720
people in the past three days about this. Just

00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:26.059
using these natural, very, they're not even pharmacological.

00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:28.900
They're nutraceutical. They're from plant -based

00:26:28.900 --> 00:26:32.500
extracts. But to help normalize the brain function,

00:26:32.619 --> 00:26:35.400
to normalize the connection between the gut and

00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:37.579
the brain, that's called the vagus nerve system.

00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:42.440
But even now we're learning that bringing plant

00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.480
fibers into the gut and feeding the good bacteria,

00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:49.309
introducing prebiotics. probiotics to the gut,

00:26:49.390 --> 00:26:52.690
those can have profound impact on the brain.

00:26:53.809 --> 00:26:57.650
Feeding different families of bacteria like Bifidobacterium

00:26:57.650 --> 00:27:00.309
longum, I know these are long names, but if you

00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:05.329
feed the correct bacteria, Bifidobacterium prevotella

00:27:05.329 --> 00:27:08.309
bacteroides, these are different types of bacteria,

00:27:08.450 --> 00:27:11.390
where if you feed them and you feed the good

00:27:11.390 --> 00:27:15.140
guys in your gut, The byproduct of them just

00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:18.619
existing, the metabolic byproduct, are things

00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:21.980
like acetate, butyrate, and propionate. Those

00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.779
are very, very good chemicals for your brain.

00:27:25.099 --> 00:27:27.700
Those are foundational for your neurotransmitters.

00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:29.799
But Jess is going to see a doctor and he's ready

00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:32.039
to write a prescription. It's a load of chemicals

00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.119
and this information is just not presented to

00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:36.440
you. This would have been a game changer. For

00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.839
sure. But there's medical doctors. Some time

00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:43.180
ago, they didn't even know this because it's

00:27:43.180 --> 00:27:45.680
suppressed. They don't want you to know because

00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.779
if I get your gut working properly and you feel

00:27:49.779 --> 00:27:53.319
terrific all day, every day. You said in four

00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:55.700
months you can recycle the whole blood system.

00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:59.299
You can have new blood in four months. So that's

00:27:59.299 --> 00:28:01.240
good that this is available. It wasn't to you.

00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:04.259
The other question, just quickly, something tells

00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:07.579
me that you were supposed to take ayahuasca on

00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:10.400
the spiritual side of it. Yeah, there is that

00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.609
spiritual side. Mike's podcast definitely dove

00:28:14.609 --> 00:28:17.589
into that. I found that fascinating because you

00:28:17.589 --> 00:28:20.309
said the same thing. You're called. You're almost

00:28:20.309 --> 00:28:22.529
called to it. Tell me what that means. It's an

00:28:22.529 --> 00:28:26.769
incredible experience that you really don't know

00:28:26.769 --> 00:28:32.170
until you know. Until you experience it, it's

00:28:32.170 --> 00:28:34.930
something that's going to be so foreign to so

00:28:34.930 --> 00:28:38.740
many people. And it's very difficult to describe.

00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.180
It's difficult to describe. It really is difficult

00:28:41.180 --> 00:28:44.400
to describe. And people would tell me, you know,

00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.039
the medicine calls you, the medicine calls you.

00:28:47.059 --> 00:28:49.380
I'm like, okay, don't quite know what that means.

00:28:49.460 --> 00:28:52.400
But, you know, even talking today, all of the

00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.519
amazing things that you mentioned that plants

00:28:54.519 --> 00:28:58.200
can do. I now know that. I didn't know that then.

00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:02.839
It's fascinating. I mean, mushrooms, if you look

00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:06.160
at their root systems, it's like your neurons.

00:29:06.380 --> 00:29:08.819
I mean, it mimics the body. It's fascinating.

00:29:09.579 --> 00:29:12.640
You know, even ayahuasca is a plant. It's natural.

00:29:12.819 --> 00:29:17.279
It is a vine and a leaf that's crushed together

00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.789
to make a tea. It is a natural. living substance

00:29:20.789 --> 00:29:23.130
we can talk about your ayahuasca trip if you'd

00:29:23.130 --> 00:29:25.849
like but when you got back from it what was your

00:29:25.849 --> 00:29:28.809
state of mind how could you integrate after this

00:29:28.809 --> 00:29:31.309
vast i'm assuming it was a vast experience wherever

00:29:31.309 --> 00:29:35.490
you went so my experience was much different

00:29:35.490 --> 00:29:38.009
than my brother's um i think he was because you

00:29:38.009 --> 00:29:40.970
just did it once right once he was blown away

00:29:40.970 --> 00:29:44.569
when i went to him to say i think this is what

00:29:44.569 --> 00:29:47.690
i need to do and his response was like all right

00:29:47.690 --> 00:29:53.559
let's go We're going. And thank God. Because

00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:58.819
I wouldn't have done it on my own. Yeah. I needed

00:29:58.819 --> 00:30:00.839
him. Yeah. I would not have done it on my own.

00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:03.519
He was your rock. Yeah. Yeah. And he knew that.

00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.380
He knew that. And I knew that. You know, we had

00:30:06.380 --> 00:30:09.539
to do this together. Yeah. And thank God we did.

00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:14.059
Because literally, it was like a light switch.

00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.490
Was it really? I went in. You know, I guess to

00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:21.609
describe the experience, it's a tea. It tastes

00:30:21.609 --> 00:30:25.690
awful. I mean. When people call it a drug, it

00:30:25.690 --> 00:30:28.490
is not a drug because there is no way that you

00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:30.150
would get addicted to this substance. So disgusting.

00:30:30.150 --> 00:30:32.970
Because it tastes so bad and it wreaks havoc,

00:30:33.150 --> 00:30:36.250
good havoc on your body. But it's not comfortable.

00:30:36.509 --> 00:30:39.569
No. You're throwing up. You're shitting yourself.

00:30:39.769 --> 00:30:42.390
I mean, it happens. I'd have to wear a diaper

00:30:42.390 --> 00:30:45.170
and have a big plastic bag. It's okay because

00:30:45.170 --> 00:30:47.029
everybody there is going through it and it's

00:30:47.029 --> 00:30:49.329
a healing process. So you're purging something.

00:30:49.470 --> 00:30:51.990
You are. You're purging something. But it's not.

00:30:52.779 --> 00:30:55.099
You're going in there to really fight some demons.

00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:58.059
Yeah. So you have your eyes closed and then you

00:30:58.059 --> 00:31:01.140
arrive in a location of some sort. Everybody's

00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:04.559
experience is different. My brother can see things.

00:31:04.660 --> 00:31:07.980
He had visions and traveled to what you would

00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:11.480
call other worlds and had a very spiritual experience,

00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.619
which was what he needed. My prayer for him was

00:31:15.619 --> 00:31:18.779
that he would encounter spirit, that he would

00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:21.559
find faith, that he would believe in a higher

00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:24.589
power. And he got that and he did, which is incredible.

00:31:24.589 --> 00:31:27.569
Well, he met Jesus, didn't he? He did. It's incredible.

00:31:27.869 --> 00:31:30.609
Yeah. You know, you come in with an intention.

00:31:30.609 --> 00:31:31.990
And what was your agenda going on? So my intention

00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:35.710
and, you know. You just wanted to be healed.

00:31:35.750 --> 00:31:38.789
You just wanted some sanity back. That was my,

00:31:39.130 --> 00:31:42.950
that was my intention was to be healed. Yeah.

00:31:43.009 --> 00:31:46.130
To be healed. I mean, I had some other, you know,

00:31:46.130 --> 00:31:49.470
things I'd love to interact spiritually. You

00:31:49.470 --> 00:31:53.900
know, I'd love to. To conquer, you know, have

00:31:53.900 --> 00:31:57.579
a conquering over fear. You know, there were

00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:01.019
other things. But my primary, if I came out and

00:32:01.019 --> 00:32:03.720
I could be healed, that's all I wanted. And did

00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.279
you come out completely changed? Completely healed.

00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:08.680
You were a different person. Completely healed.

00:32:08.779 --> 00:32:11.220
And when I say it was like a light switch, you

00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:14.559
know, you take your tea, you drink it. It was

00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.519
about 45 minutes to an hour. And you kind of

00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.519
gauge where you are. Were you nervous? You know,

00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:24.460
I was nervous, but I also had that freeing sensation

00:32:24.460 --> 00:32:27.160
of I've got nothing to lose. So whatever happens,

00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.440
happens. Yeah. I've got everything to gain. Yes.

00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.920
And so you take your tea, you sit for 45 minutes

00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:37.180
to an hour, and there's another call to say if

00:32:37.180 --> 00:32:39.680
you need more, if you need what they call a booster.

00:32:40.910 --> 00:32:43.910
come and take it. And so I went up, I talked

00:32:43.910 --> 00:32:46.269
to one of the facilitators and I said, they said,

00:32:46.309 --> 00:32:47.789
what are you feeling? What are you seeing? And

00:32:47.789 --> 00:32:50.150
I kind of described like, I'm seeing some rainbow

00:32:50.150 --> 00:32:54.450
patterns, some fractals. I feel good, but that's,

00:32:54.450 --> 00:32:56.230
I haven't crossed the line. Right. That's about

00:32:56.230 --> 00:32:58.410
it. She said, okay. I haven't broken on through.

00:32:58.490 --> 00:33:00.950
She said, okay. She gave me another cup and she

00:33:00.950 --> 00:33:02.589
said, take this. It'll get you where you need

00:33:02.589 --> 00:33:08.710
to go. And so you were catapulted. And it was

00:33:08.710 --> 00:33:13.420
amazing. absolutely amazing and it was a light

00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:16.240
switch so literally that's what the amazing part

00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.359
of is you went in one woman and came out refreshed

00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:21.980
so you're in for for maybe eight hours depending

00:33:21.980 --> 00:33:25.980
on you know how much you've absorbed um it is

00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:28.000
something that's absorbed into your digestion

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.420
like this is a digestive system the way it works

00:33:31.420 --> 00:33:35.359
um so it's fascinating that you talk about depression

00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:38.559
being in in your gut because that's what i felt

00:33:39.130 --> 00:33:42.990
Wow. Felt it in my gut. Wow. That's so interesting.

00:33:43.329 --> 00:33:44.869
There's a lot of us that believe very strongly

00:33:44.869 --> 00:33:49.849
that depression is linked to pathogens. Many

00:33:49.849 --> 00:33:54.339
of them are basically... They're not only just

00:33:54.339 --> 00:33:56.940
bacteria, but there's sometimes some parasites.

00:33:57.259 --> 00:33:59.420
Right. Right. So you might have a parasite in

00:33:59.420 --> 00:34:01.859
your gut. So the working idea, at least in my

00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:04.640
brain, is if you can introduce something that's

00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:07.140
going to kill the bad parasites and keep the

00:34:07.140 --> 00:34:09.179
other balance, then you're going to come out

00:34:09.179 --> 00:34:12.219
the other end just like she did. So I think as

00:34:12.219 --> 00:34:14.559
time goes on and we research this further, that's

00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:16.920
what we're going to end up seeing is a normalizing

00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:19.880
the gut, a specific targeting of certain parasites.

00:34:20.489 --> 00:34:23.449
Because think of it this way, the same way that

00:34:23.449 --> 00:34:25.909
the good bacteria and the good fungus in your

00:34:25.909 --> 00:34:29.809
gut produce good outputs for your brain and body,

00:34:29.969 --> 00:34:33.590
the bad ones are also producing bad outputs.

00:34:33.969 --> 00:34:38.530
So if the toxicity, if they're producing, a lot

00:34:38.530 --> 00:34:45.159
of human pathogens produce ammonia. They produce

00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:48.659
ammonia. That ammonia is very toxic to us. It's

00:34:48.659 --> 00:34:52.260
like cat urine in your gut, right? That's not

00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:54.719
a good look. It's not a good feel. And that would

00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.739
necessarily cause depression. So normalizing

00:34:57.739 --> 00:35:01.340
that, bringing a balance to the gut. makes all

00:35:01.340 --> 00:35:03.639
the sense so when you've done this tea in eight

00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:05.860
hours you sensed that it was doing something

00:35:05.860 --> 00:35:08.300
to your gut but psychologically you were different

00:35:08.300 --> 00:35:10.699
did you feel physically and psychologically yeah

00:35:10.699 --> 00:35:13.559
yeah i'm gonna piggyback on that because i know

00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.000
you said that mike i don't want to interrupt

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.599
but mike you said that mike's experience was

00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.719
more spiritual but at the same time you say that

00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.750
i'm going to call you out on this because You

00:35:24.750 --> 00:35:28.750
got emotional. I like to watch people. You got

00:35:28.750 --> 00:35:31.829
emotional when you thanked God for this. Oh,

00:35:31.829 --> 00:35:34.289
yeah. That was the thing that made you cry. For

00:35:34.289 --> 00:35:36.090
sure. Tell me more about that. For sure. So,

00:35:36.090 --> 00:35:42.030
so I will highlight, I can cry now. So it's still

00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:43.510
something I'm getting used to because I'm only

00:35:43.510 --> 00:35:46.409
three years in and I'm now able to express emotions

00:35:46.409 --> 00:35:49.730
and cry. So you're safe here. You know, it, it

00:35:49.730 --> 00:35:53.010
happens a lot more regularly. Um, does it feel

00:35:53.010 --> 00:35:56.539
quite liberating? Celebrate it. Yeah. You know,

00:35:56.599 --> 00:36:00.860
I'm learning to embrace it. Yes, a new emotion.

00:36:00.860 --> 00:36:04.119
And to not apologize for it. Right. But it is

00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.360
a new emotion for me. So I'm getting used to

00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:08.559
it. After you had this experience, were you able

00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.179
to laugh? I mean, a lot of normal things, did

00:36:11.179 --> 00:36:14.659
they get reinstated? Yes, but I'm still working

00:36:14.659 --> 00:36:19.219
on it. So I'm in a depressive state for a majority

00:36:19.219 --> 00:36:24.690
of my life. That's gone. I'm healed. However,

00:36:24.949 --> 00:36:29.989
there are habits and tendencies that I have still,

00:36:30.090 --> 00:36:32.409
I'm still working through. So we're going to,

00:36:32.409 --> 00:36:35.789
before you go into your journal, I want to highlight

00:36:35.789 --> 00:36:38.710
this because it's very relevant. I went to the

00:36:38.710 --> 00:36:41.329
Air Force Academy and one of my summer programs,

00:36:41.469 --> 00:36:44.610
I was actually an instructor, an instructor,

00:36:44.630 --> 00:36:47.550
they call it cadre for commando school. So I

00:36:47.550 --> 00:36:50.690
was teaching one day classes to cadets how to

00:36:50.690 --> 00:36:53.090
be commandos, right? And it was just like an

00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:57.389
orientation. Prior to that, we were taught how

00:36:57.389 --> 00:37:00.389
to identify people with suicidal symptoms. Because

00:37:00.389 --> 00:37:03.610
that program is very intense. And the whole cadet

00:37:03.610 --> 00:37:06.750
program is very intense. So we were trained for

00:37:06.750 --> 00:37:09.429
an entire weekend how to note depression, suicidal

00:37:09.429 --> 00:37:12.530
tendencies, and this type of thing. So since

00:37:12.530 --> 00:37:14.630
that time, I've really taken and paid a lot of

00:37:14.630 --> 00:37:16.869
attention. Especially having lost my best friend

00:37:16.869 --> 00:37:19.829
when I was about 40. He committed suicide. And

00:37:19.829 --> 00:37:22.190
I'm just like... Wow. So I've really been paying

00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:24.170
attention to sadness, depression, all these things.

00:37:24.389 --> 00:37:28.909
What I know when I hear you is you said you're

00:37:28.909 --> 00:37:32.070
able to cry now. Well, this is fascinating because

00:37:32.070 --> 00:37:36.489
my working model of depression is being angry

00:37:36.489 --> 00:37:39.849
or sad or having these motions that are not able

00:37:39.849 --> 00:37:42.969
to come out. Either you're unable to let them

00:37:42.969 --> 00:37:45.429
out because of a belief system or there's something

00:37:45.429 --> 00:37:48.590
not permitting you to express that. So you can

00:37:48.590 --> 00:37:52.019
be sad or angry. And those are legitimate. Like

00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:54.699
if somebody smashes the windshield of your car,

00:37:54.739 --> 00:37:56.539
you can be angry. That's a legitimate feeling.

00:37:56.980 --> 00:37:59.500
But if you're not allowed to be angry or you're

00:37:59.500 --> 00:38:02.400
not allowed to cry or you're not allowed, like

00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:05.320
I grew up in a different than you, but same.

00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:09.260
I was very, very depressed, very sad. My answer

00:38:09.260 --> 00:38:11.599
was always action. Take action, climb trees,

00:38:11.599 --> 00:38:14.559
do excitement, get that dopamine hit. I was always

00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:18.900
doing crazy things. risking my life. So I was

00:38:18.900 --> 00:38:21.539
using dopamine to compensate for that, like the

00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:25.739
radical, just being a crazy person. So the thing

00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:28.639
is, but when I reflect on my life, I'm sharing

00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:31.340
this with you because the suppression of core

00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:35.400
feelings is very central because I grew up in

00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.619
a place where my mom would say, oh, you shouldn't

00:38:38.619 --> 00:38:42.429
feel that way. But I would be sad or I'd be angry.

00:38:42.489 --> 00:38:44.010
Get yourself together. Have certain feelings

00:38:44.010 --> 00:38:47.630
about who I was or how I felt about life. You

00:38:47.630 --> 00:38:50.289
shouldn't feel that way. I think that we as a

00:38:50.289 --> 00:38:53.610
society need to lay off a little bit. And if

00:38:53.610 --> 00:38:55.510
somebody's going through stuff, I've done this

00:38:55.510 --> 00:38:59.130
to freaking 10 people in the past 10 years. Complete

00:38:59.130 --> 00:39:02.030
strangers I saw crying. Complete strangers, I

00:39:02.030 --> 00:39:04.809
went up and hugged them. And whatever they're

00:39:04.809 --> 00:39:06.070
going through, I'm not going to judge them. I

00:39:06.070 --> 00:39:08.389
say, don't feel that way. They're obviously feeling

00:39:08.389 --> 00:39:11.730
that way, so let them go. And my question is,

00:39:11.889 --> 00:39:15.070
did you have, as a child, did you have an opportunity

00:39:15.070 --> 00:39:18.550
to, not did you, but did you have the chance

00:39:18.550 --> 00:39:21.190
to? Did anyone tell you, don't feel that way?

00:39:21.309 --> 00:39:25.590
Did you have a need to feel perfect? That's a

00:39:25.590 --> 00:39:28.210
really good question. Because I felt like I needed

00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:31.150
to be perfect. Yeah. Well, the expectations that

00:39:31.150 --> 00:39:33.889
you shouldn't express too much emotion. We were

00:39:33.889 --> 00:39:39.110
in a very open, loving household. Some of what

00:39:39.110 --> 00:39:41.829
I felt was probably a genetic link. I mean, there's

00:39:41.829 --> 00:39:45.590
depression in both sides of my family. That genetic

00:39:45.590 --> 00:39:48.550
something that's just wired differently. I don't

00:39:48.550 --> 00:39:52.829
know. But, you know, I... I was very, I was an

00:39:52.829 --> 00:39:56.369
introverted child. I was shy. Did you have many

00:39:56.369 --> 00:40:00.150
friends? I definitely had friends. Did you spend

00:40:00.150 --> 00:40:02.170
a lot of time alone? I spent a lot of time alone.

00:40:02.590 --> 00:40:06.050
I was the oldest, so I self -imposed a lot of

00:40:06.050 --> 00:40:10.030
responsibility upon myself. So, you know, who

00:40:10.030 --> 00:40:12.429
knows? Who knows at the end of the day, you know,

00:40:12.429 --> 00:40:16.349
what... junk food I was eating or, you know,

00:40:16.369 --> 00:40:19.550
who knows, environmental. I mean, it all plays

00:40:19.550 --> 00:40:22.969
a part and just been a perfect storm of crap,

00:40:23.110 --> 00:40:25.150
you know. Or you were supposed to go through

00:40:25.150 --> 00:40:26.829
something spiritually and it was all supposed

00:40:26.829 --> 00:40:29.349
to happen. So you could frame it like that. So

00:40:29.349 --> 00:40:31.650
you could be here today talking to us. For sure.

00:40:32.130 --> 00:40:34.809
And not to, you know, I don't want to downplay

00:40:34.809 --> 00:40:37.230
the spiritual aspect of it because it was definitely

00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:40.369
there for me in my experience. You know, I felt.

00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:45.099
a communing with spirit. I felt the presence

00:40:45.099 --> 00:40:49.019
of God. I felt my ancestors there. Now, was this

00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:52.460
a presence, an audible, or was this visual like

00:40:52.460 --> 00:40:56.539
Mike's? Did you see, I mean, big vistas or were

00:40:56.539 --> 00:40:58.579
your eyes closed and this was a presence? So

00:40:58.579 --> 00:41:01.559
interestingly with me, when my eyes were open,

00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:08.719
I saw colors in lights. lights were intensified.

00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:11.920
So if I was sitting by the fire, it was an intensified

00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:16.980
light and I could feel the spirit of a relative

00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:21.500
in that way. Wow. You know, I shamanic for sure.

00:41:21.579 --> 00:41:26.659
I mean, I, I talked to people of past. I, I saw

00:41:26.659 --> 00:41:30.579
images of, of what I could relate to, you know,

00:41:30.579 --> 00:41:33.860
what this substance would have been like sitting

00:41:33.860 --> 00:41:36.840
around the fire. back in biblical times. Maybe

00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:41.139
you did. You know, it had that sense of connection

00:41:41.139 --> 00:41:46.320
for me to God. Maybe this is more of a remembering.

00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:50.820
Yes, that's a great way of framing it. I don't

00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:53.019
want to keep interrupting, but these are curious

00:41:53.019 --> 00:41:57.579
things for me. With your transition through this

00:41:57.579 --> 00:42:00.440
process, like I don't even know what, well, I

00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:03.639
do, but the listeners don't know who you are,

00:42:03.659 --> 00:42:07.599
what you do. Did this experience, are you in

00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:09.639
an environment, like a work environment where

00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:12.980
this is commonplace? Or, I mean, is this, are

00:42:12.980 --> 00:42:14.840
you, do you do accounting? I mean, what do you

00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.349
do? And is this what you're? What you went through,

00:42:18.369 --> 00:42:21.110
is that relevant to your work in any way? So

00:42:21.110 --> 00:42:23.650
this is something I was so not connected to.

00:42:23.710 --> 00:42:26.510
So this is totally... Completely in a different

00:42:26.510 --> 00:42:30.769
space than who I am on a day -to -day basis,

00:42:30.829 --> 00:42:34.849
what I do for an occupation. This was foreign.

00:42:35.289 --> 00:42:37.849
Yes, foreign reality. So you really, literally

00:42:37.849 --> 00:42:40.050
did not even see this coming until it was here?

00:42:40.070 --> 00:42:43.679
No, no. And that's where it's slightly... You

00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:48.219
know, my brother is a free spirit. He is a business

00:42:48.219 --> 00:42:52.380
owner and can do his own thing. I'm on the other

00:42:52.380 --> 00:42:55.260
end of it where I'm in a professional occupation.

00:42:56.039 --> 00:43:00.099
I don't talk about ayahuasca to pretty much anyone

00:43:00.099 --> 00:43:04.159
outside my family, my closest friends who know

00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:08.519
what I did. I just recently met someone after

00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:11.599
three years. that through a conversation, I figured

00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:14.059
out, oh, you've done ayahuasca. And we had that,

00:43:14.059 --> 00:43:17.940
you know, that created an immediate bond. Immediate

00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:20.380
bonds, like, oh my gosh, I finally met somebody

00:43:20.380 --> 00:43:22.360
in the wild, you know, that has done this. You

00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:26.139
feel less lonely. Right, right. So this isn't,

00:43:26.139 --> 00:43:28.380
and unfortunately. So you mentioned patterns.

00:43:28.420 --> 00:43:30.880
So you came back, you felt healed and you felt

00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:33.659
rejuvenated, but you realized you still had mental

00:43:33.659 --> 00:43:36.739
patterns of thought forms. And now you had to

00:43:36.739 --> 00:43:38.119
still do the work to overcome those. There's

00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:40.889
still work to do. That's a good segue because

00:43:40.889 --> 00:43:43.960
I want to know about the patterns. Yeah. Yeah,

00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:45.880
because I think we all deal with those. I mean,

00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:47.440
you and I probably got patterns we still got

00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:50.119
to transcend. Right. No, there's still work to

00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:52.940
do. I mean, and that's part of what's called

00:43:52.940 --> 00:43:54.900
an integration. Like you are integrating your

00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:58.619
experience into your life. How does it fit together?

00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.519
And how do you continue doing the work outside

00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:04.960
of the medicine space? Do you need more light?

00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:07.380
No, no, no. So here, I do want to share this

00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:09.400
with you. So like I said, I journal. Do you want

00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.559
to use my flashlight? No, no, no. I journal,

00:44:11.800 --> 00:44:16.380
I write. Um, and, and so during that experience

00:44:16.380 --> 00:44:20.380
before, after I really tried my best to, to take

00:44:20.380 --> 00:44:22.780
down things that happened. And so I might cry

00:44:22.780 --> 00:44:28.960
during this, but this is the, this is the moment,

00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:32.679
you know, I. You know, I wrote a couple of things.

00:44:32.739 --> 00:44:35.139
I drank the medicine. I saw a blue butterfly.

00:44:35.619 --> 00:44:38.019
You know, she wrapped her arms around me. I felt

00:44:38.019 --> 00:44:39.420
comfortable. I felt safe. Oh, that was nice.

00:44:39.539 --> 00:44:40.980
You know, there's things that I see. Can I just

00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:44.000
quickly, quickly, is that as real, that butterfly

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:46.340
as you sitting with Tia Jolie and I? So for me,

00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:50.079
my eyes were closed. And I saw and felt it. And

00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:52.139
it was as real as this. Oh, for sure. So you

00:44:52.139 --> 00:44:53.460
were right there. Like if the butterfly touched

00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:55.760
you, wait a minute, if I touched you. Absolutely.

00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:58.840
Right. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. That's a

00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:00.760
nice entry though. Beautiful entry into that.

00:45:00.940 --> 00:45:03.420
I got some comfort and some peace right away.

00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:04.440
Yeah, I want to see a butterfly. And I think

00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.079
I needed that. Yes. Because what came next was

00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:11.460
not lessons. So here's what I wrote down. Okay.

00:45:11.619 --> 00:45:14.679
It says, I said, the best I can remember is it's

00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:17.940
dark. It was a shadowy presence. It felt like

00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:20.699
I was in a cold, dark graveyard on Halloween.

00:45:21.019 --> 00:45:24.880
Oh my goodness. And I knew there were dark spirits.

00:45:25.219 --> 00:45:28.119
I knew there were dark spirits all around me.

00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:30.719
And did they have the intention to harm you?

00:45:30.780 --> 00:45:35.340
It was depression. I felt it physically. It was

00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:39.199
there. When I looked down at my belly, it was

00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.539
bulging and it was filled with a large pumpkin.

00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.320
And I felt like I was laying in a pumpkin patch.

00:45:45.099 --> 00:45:47.380
And I knew that it had to get out of me. Wow.

00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.000
Whatever it was, was sick and poisonous. And

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:57.820
it was rooted in my belly. I felt sick. And that's

00:45:57.820 --> 00:46:00.360
when I asked Ayahuasca to take it away from me.

00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:03.619
So you gave it a command. You commanded this.

00:46:03.619 --> 00:46:07.659
I asked it. I said, take it away from me. To

00:46:07.659 --> 00:46:10.800
get whatever was sick out of my mind. And that's

00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:14.369
when I felt it all get pulled out. And I could

00:46:14.369 --> 00:46:18.769
see a sewer grate. A sewer grate? Like a sewer

00:46:18.769 --> 00:46:21.550
grate that had been placed over my mind to get

00:46:21.550 --> 00:46:24.469
pulled off and lifted into space. And at that

00:46:24.469 --> 00:46:30.769
moment, I knew that my depression was gone and

00:46:30.769 --> 00:46:33.630
that life was worth living. So it had gone through

00:46:33.630 --> 00:46:37.309
this sewer gate. It had been released. You felt

00:46:37.309 --> 00:46:41.599
this pumpkin -sized ball of energy. And you asked

00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:43.820
it to be released. And that's why you only did

00:46:43.820 --> 00:46:46.099
it once, because you felt all this negativity

00:46:46.099 --> 00:46:50.820
had gone. Yeah, I felt like I had a bookend experience.

00:46:50.980 --> 00:46:55.059
I went from the beauty to getting my healing

00:46:55.059 --> 00:46:58.380
to seeing other beautiful, wonderful things that

00:46:58.380 --> 00:47:01.440
I could take away and hold close to heart. But

00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:05.360
I also came away with a really, really sore stomach.

00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.300
Like sore like you were punched or sore like

00:47:10.300 --> 00:47:12.340
you had the flu? Or was it the ayahuasca? It

00:47:12.340 --> 00:47:15.320
was a strange soreness. It was not like I needed

00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:17.980
to lay down and I was sick and I couldn't move.

00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:21.880
It was what I called my fire belly. It felt just

00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:29.039
this burning physical pain in my stomach. I probably

00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:31.420
had it into the next, I definitely had it into

00:47:31.420 --> 00:47:32.960
the next day. Okay, so it's relatively short

00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.719
span of time. It was short. It went away within

00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:38.840
24 hours or so, but it was this burning pain.

00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:42.719
And I mean, you're physically ill. You're throwing

00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:46.219
up. You know, I was definitely coming out the

00:47:46.219 --> 00:47:51.610
other end too. Yeah. You have, for me. I could

00:47:51.610 --> 00:47:54.110
open my eyes. I knew where I was. I knew if I

00:47:54.110 --> 00:47:55.949
needed assistance, somebody was going to come

00:47:55.949 --> 00:47:58.409
over and help me. I physically got myself to

00:47:58.409 --> 00:48:00.369
the bathroom and then I got back onto the mat

00:48:00.369 --> 00:48:04.119
and I kept having an experience. I was, well,

00:48:04.139 --> 00:48:05.820
you held your shit together really. I really

00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:08.840
did. I mean, literally take a little bit here

00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:11.059
and there. So that's good. You didn't get, cause

00:48:11.059 --> 00:48:13.400
being in this ghouly graveyard with all these

00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:15.159
sinister people, I mean, that's a hell of a trip

00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:17.860
to be on if it's as real as this, which I'm assuming

00:48:17.860 --> 00:48:20.280
it is. So you really have to have a presence

00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:22.039
of mind that you might not even be aware of.

00:48:22.059 --> 00:48:24.179
But there really was a, there was a physical

00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:26.840
purge. There was a mental purge. At some point

00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:30.599
I remember staring at a candle and it was flickering.

00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:33.230
And I, this was after my depression. just gotten

00:48:33.230 --> 00:48:35.570
ripped out of me and i'm looking at this candle

00:48:35.570 --> 00:48:36.869
and i'm thinking god this is such a beautiful

00:48:36.869 --> 00:48:39.630
moment and then i saw it again that is such a

00:48:39.630 --> 00:48:41.550
beautiful moment that is such a beautiful moment

00:48:41.550 --> 00:48:44.369
so your level of appreciation i was but then

00:48:44.369 --> 00:48:46.670
i started grieving that moment is gone and i'm

00:48:46.670 --> 00:48:48.949
never gonna have it again that moment is gone

00:48:48.949 --> 00:48:50.690
and i'm never gonna have it you're having a good

00:48:50.690 --> 00:48:52.730
moment and then you're seeing it being but that

00:48:52.730 --> 00:48:57.699
realization of this moment is beautiful and I

00:48:57.699 --> 00:48:59.800
need to live in it and I need to capture it and

00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:03.219
I need to be thankful for it because yes, it's

00:49:03.219 --> 00:49:08.280
fleeting. I never had that. No. Ever. I was ready.

00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:10.239
I mean, on the flip side, you would have taken

00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:12.239
it all for granted. You're not taking any of

00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:14.500
this for granted. Everything has a massive amount

00:49:14.500 --> 00:49:17.199
of meaning. I used to feel like if I died, it's

00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.400
okay. And now if you saw a sunset, you'd probably

00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:21.260
collapse after pulling your car over, wouldn't

00:49:21.260 --> 00:49:24.809
you? And now. I know that it's worth living.

00:49:24.949 --> 00:49:28.210
Like I know that every moment is of value and

00:49:28.210 --> 00:49:32.110
it's beautiful. It's like the divine. Wow. Gratitude.

00:49:32.349 --> 00:49:34.769
We've talked about this a lot on the show. I

00:49:34.769 --> 00:49:36.710
mean, that's where you've got appreciation and

00:49:36.710 --> 00:49:38.030
gratitude. And the importance of being present.

00:49:38.230 --> 00:49:41.829
Yes. I wrote Robin some time ago. It was like

00:49:41.829 --> 00:49:43.349
years ago. I was going through some stuff and

00:49:43.349 --> 00:49:47.650
I wrote her a haiku. It was like 50 stanzas of

00:49:47.650 --> 00:49:50.510
haiku for, but it was called the special present.

00:49:51.309 --> 00:49:53.730
And it was a double entendre, but basically the

00:49:53.730 --> 00:49:56.849
special present is the gift of the poetry. But

00:49:56.849 --> 00:49:59.269
at the same time, the essence of the poetry was

00:49:59.269 --> 00:50:04.269
this discussion of being present. The beauty

00:50:04.269 --> 00:50:08.170
of the moment, the exact, everything from witnessing

00:50:08.170 --> 00:50:12.429
a baby being born or celebrating a birthday or

00:50:12.429 --> 00:50:15.250
being in a studio with two friends, right? The

00:50:15.250 --> 00:50:18.780
presence of being in the presence of... perfect

00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:21.780
divinity every moment every moment and that's

00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:24.539
the thing about the candle in the grieving process

00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:28.099
doesn't have to be there yes it's optional yes

00:50:28.099 --> 00:50:30.340
it's up like the grieving of the but the grieving

00:50:30.340 --> 00:50:32.820
was necessary because the appreciation was now

00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:34.199
you felt like you were clinging on because i'm

00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:35.940
going to lose it it's like you're not it created

00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:40.239
the contrast yes which is great and I never felt

00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:42.679
that before. No. I never grieved the passing

00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:44.940
of a moment because I didn't care if that moment,

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:46.300
I didn't care if I was here. Well, I don't even

00:50:46.300 --> 00:50:48.119
know whether you were in the moment. No. You

00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:50.300
were in some mental elsewhere. Absolutely. Which

00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:52.239
was a prison, so you were present. So a lot of

00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:53.940
what we talked about now has brought us from

00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:55.860
the past to the present. You experienced this

00:50:55.860 --> 00:51:00.920
ayahuasca. Since that time, like I want to make

00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:03.880
this real for the listeners. Sure. So somebody's

00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:05.280
sitting here and there's going to be somebody

00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:07.440
that's a Bible thumper and this is black magic.

00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:10.079
And, you know, there's all these belief systems

00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:12.360
and there's other people are like, oh, I'm all

00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.099
about medicine. You need to go to your medical

00:51:15.099 --> 00:51:16.679
doctor and all this stuff, like all of these

00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:20.139
belief systems. Let's make it real for the person

00:51:20.139 --> 00:51:22.219
that's listening, that's going through depression.

00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:25.340
Like, I'm going to always suggest you talk to

00:51:25.340 --> 00:51:28.260
somebody like me, you know, find somebody. Holistic

00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.599
doctor close to you. Talk about your gut. Let's

00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:32.579
bring some balance. So I'm always going to start

00:51:32.579 --> 00:51:37.460
with that. But in your opinion, and this is not

00:51:37.460 --> 00:51:39.639
medical advice or anything, but in your opinion,

00:51:39.699 --> 00:51:43.860
who is ayahuasca indicated for? But importantly...

00:51:44.219 --> 00:51:48.179
Who is it not for? Those are two populations.

00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:50.860
Who do you think might... Start with the not

00:51:50.860 --> 00:51:53.820
for. Who is this not for? Yeah, that's a good

00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:56.519
one. And I'll preface it also by saying I am

00:51:56.519 --> 00:52:00.360
not a professional in this area. And the listeners

00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:02.420
know that. You're just a regular woman. I would

00:52:02.420 --> 00:52:05.480
make an argument that you are the professional.

00:52:05.980 --> 00:52:09.400
Well, you've got subjective experience. Yeah,

00:52:09.500 --> 00:52:14.489
I have the experience for sure. done research

00:52:14.489 --> 00:52:17.150
and you know i've i've dug into it but this is

00:52:17.150 --> 00:52:21.929
not my field um but from what i understand that

00:52:21.929 --> 00:52:28.150
there are some significant um significant uh

00:52:28.150 --> 00:52:31.889
illnesses that you should not seek out ayahuasca

00:52:31.889 --> 00:52:33.989
for one is bipolar disorder one is schizophrenia

00:52:33.989 --> 00:52:39.119
um Because that could exacerbate it. Because

00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.800
that could exacerbate it. I had to get off SSRIs.

00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:46.460
If you are on medications and you take ayahuasca,

00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:47.920
there are some significant issues with that.

00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:51.739
So there's an issue, yes. It was very difficult,

00:52:51.820 --> 00:52:55.739
but I had to detox and I had to be clean for

00:52:55.739 --> 00:52:58.119
a couple of weeks without the medication in my

00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:00.199
system that I had been taking for 10 years. So

00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:03.239
is it fair to say that there's a process leading

00:53:03.239 --> 00:53:07.039
up to... You have to do it responsibly. is a

00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:09.219
right you have to get off right you can't be

00:53:09.219 --> 00:53:11.599
schizophrenic you can't be bipolar you can't

00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:13.559
be on that medicine what about an age now you

00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:15.800
were what 30 how old were you i was 39 at the

00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:18.280
time 39 now this obviously might not have been

00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:20.699
right for you in your 20s is an age a factor

00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:27.010
here i um i don't know no i i feel like you know

00:53:27.010 --> 00:53:29.030
what what's the age when your brain is fully

00:53:29.030 --> 00:53:33.090
developed 25 ish well 26 for males and women

00:53:33.090 --> 00:53:36.670
we mature like a 21 sure oh really that early

00:53:36.670 --> 00:53:39.469
so i mean i think that there's something to that

00:53:39.469 --> 00:53:41.690
like you would you suggest would you suggest

00:53:41.690 --> 00:53:44.570
that someone get in touch with their higher self

00:53:44.570 --> 00:53:46.929
that's that and i haven't done it i intend to

00:53:46.929 --> 00:53:50.090
but i would want to be having a prayer with my

00:53:50.090 --> 00:53:53.230
higher self going the holy spirit whatever that

00:53:53.389 --> 00:53:56.570
looks like in my pantheon my religion and I would

00:53:56.570 --> 00:54:00.170
probably go on a gut feeling yeah yeah just I'm

00:54:00.170 --> 00:54:02.429
going to do this or I'm not and I and I use my

00:54:02.429 --> 00:54:04.710
intuition a lot it's a guiding principle in my

00:54:04.710 --> 00:54:06.949
life so and I'm talking from a woman's perspective

00:54:06.949 --> 00:54:09.510
I'm not sure about a dude but that would be a

00:54:09.510 --> 00:54:12.769
guiding principle should I do this or not and

00:54:12.769 --> 00:54:14.929
you'll be guided because your brother said he

00:54:14.929 --> 00:54:17.389
was guided by the medicine the medicine was talking

00:54:17.389 --> 00:54:20.809
to him so perhaps I agree go with your gut I

00:54:20.809 --> 00:54:25.260
mean if you If you do the research, if you sit

00:54:25.260 --> 00:54:27.460
with yourself and you understand your needs and

00:54:27.460 --> 00:54:30.539
you've got real intentions for doing this and

00:54:30.539 --> 00:54:34.019
you feel called to do it, why not? What do you

00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:36.480
have to lose? And you've got to that point because

00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:38.400
you didn't realize. I haven't got anything to

00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:40.599
lose. Things can't get any more fucked up than

00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:42.840
this, so I'm going to do it. So what resources

00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:45.719
are available to people? We're in North America,

00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:48.500
right? We're in Florida now, but just in the

00:54:48.500 --> 00:54:51.250
broader scope of things. Let's just say somebody

00:54:51.250 --> 00:54:53.329
hears this podcast and they're like, okay, this

00:54:53.329 --> 00:54:55.630
sounds fascinating. I'd like to talk to somebody.

00:54:55.650 --> 00:54:57.829
Maybe you have a big brother, big sister. Like

00:54:57.829 --> 00:55:01.590
you had Mike to talk to. But let's say somebody

00:55:01.590 --> 00:55:03.530
is in a vacuum. They literally have nobody and

00:55:03.530 --> 00:55:06.090
they need to speak to somebody about such things.

00:55:06.650 --> 00:55:11.250
What's a good first step? So there are a surprising

00:55:11.250 --> 00:55:14.969
amount of documentaries. I mean, on mainstream

00:55:14.969 --> 00:55:18.460
Netflix. you know where where they if you just

00:55:18.460 --> 00:55:19.940
put ayahuasca and you're going to get a load

00:55:19.940 --> 00:55:21.940
of programming on it there's oh i'm going to

00:55:21.940 --> 00:55:24.840
try that yeah um it's a difficult word to spell

00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:31.659
but i'll try there's a um there's a book uh called

00:55:31.659 --> 00:55:34.340
how to change your mind um that was turned into

00:55:34.340 --> 00:55:36.619
a documentary on netflix so if you're not a reader

00:55:36.619 --> 00:55:39.280
you know Plug that into Netflix and watch that.

00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:43.559
You know, there are celebrities who have done

00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:45.059
this and have talked about their experience.

00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:48.300
Aaron Rodgers is a huge proponent, NFL quarterback.

00:55:49.579 --> 00:55:53.420
And, you know, there are just tons of podcasts.

00:55:53.420 --> 00:55:55.980
Joe Rogan is. Joe Rogan talks about it. For sure.

00:55:56.019 --> 00:55:59.420
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, there's resources out

00:55:59.420 --> 00:56:01.519
there to dig into. And it's important to go in

00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:03.420
with the correct intent. For sure. And yours

00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:06.179
was healing. For sure. Take this away. Yeah.

00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:09.679
Yeah. So what advice would you give to somebody

00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:13.480
that's depressed now? Because teenagers, I mean,

00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:18.800
just being a teenager in general is a shit sandwich.

00:56:19.179 --> 00:56:23.000
Okay. I mean, especially the past five years,

00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:25.840
there's nothing normal about what's happened

00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:28.139
in the past five years. Yes. Now the good news

00:56:28.139 --> 00:56:30.380
is there's a bunch of people really suffering

00:56:30.380 --> 00:56:34.159
from the result of these past five years of being

00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:42.360
jacked up. So walk us through. Walk us through

00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:44.480
if you were if you were the queen for a day.

00:56:44.900 --> 00:56:47.679
Right. How would this how would we play out?

00:56:47.739 --> 00:56:50.139
How do we manage the government? How do we manage

00:56:50.139 --> 00:56:51.780
the state? How do we get through this? You force

00:56:51.780 --> 00:56:54.280
everyone on planet Earth to do an ayahuasca trip.

00:56:54.340 --> 00:56:56.860
That's your power. Well, I mean, everyone's doing

00:56:56.860 --> 00:56:58.960
this. It sounds like it was sort of great deal

00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:01.380
out. It was wonderful. But, you know, I've met

00:57:01.380 --> 00:57:04.820
some very well adjusted people. people as a result

00:57:04.820 --> 00:57:07.679
of doing no just just in life right so they wouldn't

00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:10.500
need to spiritually they're healthy they've got

00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:13.320
things figured out you know maybe you don't need

00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:16.179
to to plug in i don't know i'm just curious about

00:57:16.179 --> 00:57:18.139
what you and your brother have seen so mine is

00:57:18.139 --> 00:57:20.780
just going to be a journey and i think i'm curiosity

00:57:20.780 --> 00:57:24.039
is a great reason yeah i want to see what this

00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:26.500
realm is and this is fascinating because we you

00:57:26.500 --> 00:57:28.800
and i have a lot in common but i'm listening

00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:31.340
to you so this is back -to -back episodes about

00:57:31.340 --> 00:57:36.019
um natural compounds and stuff i i love listening

00:57:36.019 --> 00:57:37.960
to this but i have no interest in this right

00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:40.000
now fair enough which is yeah it's just totally

00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:42.480
yeah um i want to hear why you're sure i want

00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:44.099
to see it i want to see what's out there because

00:57:44.099 --> 00:57:47.619
the things you're describing i get on a daily

00:57:47.619 --> 00:57:52.139
basis i use lucidity i use states of relaxation

00:57:52.139 --> 00:57:55.699
meditation i get to those states those full -color

00:57:55.699 --> 00:57:59.239
states i get there almost on a daily basis so

00:57:59.239 --> 00:58:02.239
i'm going to just say just to balance the conversation

00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:06.699
that to those of you who are resistant to the

00:58:06.699 --> 00:58:09.559
idea of natural chemicals, plant -based chemicals,

00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:12.099
that's okay. That's okay. You know, you can get

00:58:12.099 --> 00:58:13.920
to a place. It might not be in your life plan.

00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:16.400
You can get to a place and I'll teach you how

00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:18.059
to do it or there's other people that can teach

00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:20.659
you how to do it. But just be patient and love

00:58:20.659 --> 00:58:23.619
yourself and just understand that there's other

00:58:23.619 --> 00:58:26.360
ways because your body produces chemicals and

00:58:26.360 --> 00:58:28.480
you can get your body to produce those chemicals.

00:58:29.340 --> 00:58:32.360
And Sarah's books, your books do an amazing job,

00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:34.139
Sarah. I don't know if you know this, but she's

00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:37.980
a prolific author. And, you know, the idea of

00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:41.760
using, learning about your inner power, your

00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:43.960
inner self and those things. Maybe you can comment

00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:47.760
on that after Jess is done. But I want to kind

00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:52.000
of bring this to a wrap up. And we talked about,

00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:56.960
you made one mention about Iboga. Being a little

00:58:56.960 --> 00:59:00.159
bit too much. Would you explain what Iboga is?

00:59:00.500 --> 00:59:03.019
Yeah. Just in a nutshell. Sure. We don't need

00:59:03.019 --> 00:59:06.139
to deep dive it. What's the distinction between

00:59:06.139 --> 00:59:09.179
Iboga and Ayahuasca? From your perspective, knowing

00:59:09.179 --> 00:59:11.460
that you're not a professional, but you're well

00:59:11.460 --> 00:59:13.619
read and well researched, what's your take on

00:59:13.619 --> 00:59:17.019
it? So there are a series of plant medicines

00:59:17.019 --> 00:59:21.619
that fall under the psychedelic umbrella. Iboga

00:59:21.619 --> 00:59:26.219
is one of those. Iboga or ibogatine is something

00:59:26.219 --> 00:59:29.320
that there have been a lot of studies that are

00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:34.380
happening very recently for veterans, individuals

00:59:34.380 --> 00:59:37.900
who are dealing with PTSD, traumatic brain injury.

00:59:38.300 --> 00:59:42.659
And there's a really big push right now in Texas

00:59:42.659 --> 00:59:48.840
to bring it to allow these individuals to have...

00:59:49.159 --> 00:59:51.340
clinical trials, you know, bring this to them

00:59:51.340 --> 00:59:56.550
and allow it to be a medicine. I think that There

00:59:56.550 --> 00:59:59.090
are different psychedelics for different needs.

01:00:00.269 --> 01:00:04.269
Iboga is... Is it a light weight compared to

01:00:04.269 --> 01:00:06.110
the ayahuasca? It's heavy weight. It's heavy

01:00:06.110 --> 01:00:08.769
weight. Heavy weight. So Iboga is a 36 -hour

01:00:08.769 --> 01:00:11.409
journey. Oh. Ayahuasca is about an eight. Oh,

01:00:11.409 --> 01:00:14.670
wow. So, you know, you're in it for a longer

01:00:14.670 --> 01:00:17.909
haul. However, the individuals that they are

01:00:17.909 --> 01:00:22.440
studying this against have... traumatic things

01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:24.940
that they have to work through so this is and

01:00:24.940 --> 01:00:28.460
that time frame is more appropriate for what

01:00:28.460 --> 01:00:30.760
they're battling it's a heavy duty it's deeper

01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:34.059
it's a deeper yeah deeper work yes um but you

01:00:34.059 --> 01:00:38.079
know psilocybin mushrooms you can microdose that

01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:42.079
and and get great success for anxiety and for

01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:44.820
relieving depression symptoms so there's shades

01:00:44.820 --> 01:00:50.480
of psychedelics that are beneficial and medicinal.

01:00:51.260 --> 01:00:56.179
The problem is they're seen as drugs. They're

01:00:56.179 --> 01:00:59.119
seen as something that you have to go to the

01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:03.360
black market for. And it's unfortunate that that's

01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:07.369
our situation in our society right now. It needs

01:01:07.369 --> 01:01:10.530
to be presented as an option. It doesn't need

01:01:10.530 --> 01:01:12.230
to be for everyone. Tia and I did a podcast,

01:01:12.489 --> 01:01:14.409
I think it was in January, and I bought all my

01:01:14.409 --> 01:01:16.449
drugs in, didn't I? Do you remember I shook them

01:01:16.449 --> 01:01:18.250
all and I had all these compounds, all these

01:01:18.250 --> 01:01:20.409
chemicals, and I just decided absolutely I'm

01:01:20.409 --> 01:01:23.070
not doing this anymore. And I was given Xanax

01:01:23.070 --> 01:01:24.750
for sleeping and I had to come off. I didn't

01:01:24.750 --> 01:01:26.929
sleep for the entire month of January and I've

01:01:26.929 --> 01:01:29.510
been off them since. But that's just crazy to

01:01:29.510 --> 01:01:32.110
me that we're given chemicals, yet these things,

01:01:32.170 --> 01:01:34.269
which are plant compounds, and I believe that

01:01:34.269 --> 01:01:37.139
there's a creator. that created this Garden of

01:01:37.139 --> 01:01:39.760
Eden that we live in. And where is the logic

01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:42.920
in not using what God gave us? And what's interesting

01:01:42.920 --> 01:01:45.820
about this, Sarah, is you've got this bag full

01:01:45.820 --> 01:01:48.920
of drugs, chemicals, that are basically petroleum

01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:54.360
-based derivatives. I've got people who have

01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:57.480
come to me because they're not sleeping. And

01:01:57.480 --> 01:01:59.139
if you're not sleeping, your brain eventually

01:01:59.139 --> 01:02:00.960
is going to get messed up because you're not

01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:02.300
going to poop right, you're not going to sleep

01:02:02.300 --> 01:02:04.579
right. Nothing's going to be right. Nothing's

01:02:04.579 --> 01:02:07.210
going to work in the bedroom. Right. And so what

01:02:07.210 --> 01:02:10.750
I do is there's a again, these are natural compounds

01:02:10.750 --> 01:02:13.070
right from the earth. They're not psychedelic.

01:02:13.170 --> 01:02:16.730
Things like it's called Shilajit or sometimes

01:02:16.730 --> 01:02:19.309
it's called Mumio. I'll put some links in the

01:02:19.309 --> 01:02:23.889
show notes. These are earth amino acid. They're

01:02:23.889 --> 01:02:28.730
basically earth acids. All right. Things like

01:02:28.730 --> 01:02:33.869
basically, if you ever like Mumio comes from

01:02:33.869 --> 01:02:36.440
the Himalayas. You've seen these mountain goats

01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:40.699
climbing these 84, you know, 85 degree slopes.

01:02:40.980 --> 01:02:42.599
And they're in there and they're chipping out

01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:46.300
this black tar sappy stuff, right? Chipping it

01:02:46.300 --> 01:02:48.460
out. And they're eating it. They're risking their

01:02:48.460 --> 01:02:51.099
lives trying to chip out this black stuff. That's

01:02:51.099 --> 01:02:55.380
called Shilajit. And it's the earth. Again, it's

01:02:55.380 --> 01:02:59.960
an earth compound. It's being presented from

01:02:59.960 --> 01:03:02.679
the earth and it's a black tarry substance. And

01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:05.900
what it permits you to do is it's very rich in

01:03:05.900 --> 01:03:09.400
some of the earth minerals. It's got fulvic acid.

01:03:09.699 --> 01:03:13.039
It's got humic acid. It's got a beautiful natural

01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:16.980
mineral profile. Well, I give this to my people

01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:21.960
to sleep better. I've got my God. Is this a pure

01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:24.500
product? Yeah. OK, I'm going to try that. Yeah,

01:03:24.539 --> 01:03:26.360
I'll give you some. Yeah, let me take some. I'll

01:03:26.360 --> 01:03:29.980
take it. But basically. My sister -in -law is

01:03:29.980 --> 01:03:36.139
an actress in Toronto. Her name is Jen. She was

01:03:36.139 --> 01:03:37.800
having a hard time sleeping. She had just lost

01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.719
her husband. My godbrother is a firefighter.

01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:44.760
She was not sleeping, not sleeping, not sleeping.

01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:49.869
She had this compound for one night. I also had

01:03:49.869 --> 01:03:51.530
her take it. I can't wait to take it tonight

01:03:51.530 --> 01:03:54.090
because I still get hot flashes at night. But

01:03:54.090 --> 01:03:57.449
I also gave her some calcium, magnesium, potassium.

01:03:58.809 --> 01:04:02.750
I still do it. I sleep just fine. But boy, when

01:04:02.750 --> 01:04:06.010
I get into my lucidity, I can stay there. And

01:04:06.010 --> 01:04:08.429
it's just natural compounds that the goats eat

01:04:08.429 --> 01:04:11.530
and the amylase. And it just brings you. It's

01:04:11.530 --> 01:04:14.849
very earthy. It's very foundational. So your

01:04:14.849 --> 01:04:17.690
way of tackling mental health is to do the compounds

01:04:17.690 --> 01:04:21.030
but start off as nutrients before you get onto

01:04:21.030 --> 01:04:23.869
the prescriptive side of it. Because I feel like

01:04:23.869 --> 01:04:26.949
we're going to take care of a lot of this if

01:04:26.949 --> 01:04:28.869
we get our body correct. Then we wouldn't be

01:04:28.869 --> 01:04:30.989
needing to go into it. I'm going to do it out

01:04:30.989 --> 01:04:34.329
of curiosity. It's not just for sleeping. I use

01:04:34.329 --> 01:04:35.809
it for my athletes. Because what you're going

01:04:35.809 --> 01:04:38.570
to find is that the Shilajits and the Mumio,

01:04:38.750 --> 01:04:42.710
elite athletes, are seeking this out. So if they're

01:04:42.710 --> 01:04:47.570
in college level or above Olympic athletes, the

01:04:47.570 --> 01:04:50.090
Mumio and Shilajit, they help your blood hold

01:04:50.090 --> 01:04:52.710
on to oxygen better. Your tissues hold on to

01:04:52.710 --> 01:04:55.510
oxygen better. So it's a very good, healthy move.

01:04:55.929 --> 01:04:58.010
But also, if you're going to train at sea level,

01:04:58.070 --> 01:04:59.630
like we have the Olympic Training Center here

01:04:59.630 --> 01:05:03.750
in Claremont. If you're going to train at sea

01:05:03.750 --> 01:05:07.559
level and then go compete in Denver. You needed

01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:10.219
a little advantage. So getting your blood chemistry

01:05:10.219 --> 01:05:13.079
able to hold on to oxygen better is a good move.

01:05:13.300 --> 01:05:15.619
So do you believe that if we treat our body and

01:05:15.619 --> 01:05:17.940
we have all the compounds we need, that will

01:05:17.940 --> 01:05:20.440
take care of our mental health? Do you see that

01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:22.599
this correlation in the work that you've been

01:05:22.599 --> 01:05:25.260
doing, that if our body's messed up mentally,

01:05:25.539 --> 01:05:27.980
it's going to correlate? Well, I look at it this

01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:30.539
way. There's layers. So you have to have, first

01:05:30.539 --> 01:05:31.719
of all, if you don't have a good foundation.

01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:36.780
You can have a good foundation, but if your mom,

01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:40.840
if your dad beats you as a child, you still have

01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:43.260
to resolve that conflict. So I can still build

01:05:43.260 --> 01:05:46.260
a foundation. But I work together with different

01:05:46.260 --> 01:05:49.199
professionals. And I will tell people, look,

01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:53.599
you need to get even red light therapy or even

01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:57.699
a hyperbaric chamber. I can create the substrate

01:05:57.699 --> 01:06:01.559
so that their body holds oxygen better. But then

01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:04.360
maybe they need to get oxygen pressed into them,

01:06:04.460 --> 01:06:07.000
right? So you can do things, even grounding.

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:09.380
I'm barefoot all the time. Being grounded, sleeping

01:06:09.380 --> 01:06:12.320
on a grounding pad, bringing electrons into your

01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:15.280
body. These are all very relevant. Even people

01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:17.239
with low stomach acid, they're not absorbing

01:06:17.239 --> 01:06:19.420
nutrients because they have low stomach acid

01:06:19.420 --> 01:06:22.739
because they're deficient on electrons. Grounding

01:06:22.739 --> 01:06:25.579
yourself. allows you to create it gives you more

01:06:25.579 --> 01:06:27.460
electrons you can create stomach acid you can

01:06:27.460 --> 01:06:30.119
absorb nutrients better it's all connected the

01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:32.480
more we connect to the earth and return to the

01:06:32.480 --> 01:06:35.900
garden the less likely we are need to need an

01:06:35.900 --> 01:06:39.840
ibogaine or a an ayahuasca i'm not discounting

01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:43.000
the use of those for certain populations or even

01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:45.199
the use for people that are in combat and saw

01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:47.460
their body get blown up or something there's

01:06:47.460 --> 01:06:50.519
certain levels depends what your intention is

01:06:50.519 --> 01:06:53.719
is it to heal is it exploration so don't is it

01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:56.139
finding out new aspects of reality that are going

01:06:56.139 --> 01:06:58.059
to be of benefit spiritually there's all sorts

01:06:58.059 --> 01:07:00.719
of reasons for doing this yeah i mean and just

01:07:01.079 --> 01:07:03.340
being able to talk to somebody about your feelings.

01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:07.639
I have people who come into my studio and they

01:07:07.639 --> 01:07:09.760
bawl their eyes out. In fact, if they're not

01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:11.659
crying, I usually think something's wrong with

01:07:11.659 --> 01:07:15.239
them. No, for real, because almost everybody

01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:17.420
cries in the first 10 minutes of talking to me.

01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:21.039
And it's not me. I mean, I don't hurt them. I'm

01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:24.599
not busting on them. There's somebody that loves

01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:26.920
them, they feel the love, and they start to cry

01:07:26.920 --> 01:07:31.050
because nobody listens to people anymore. Nobody,

01:07:31.090 --> 01:07:32.789
they're not girlfriends. They're not sitting

01:07:32.789 --> 01:07:35.730
around. They're walking around with their phones

01:07:35.730 --> 01:07:38.309
in their face and there's this disconnection.

01:07:38.489 --> 01:07:42.090
But as soon as they feel a connection, if I go

01:07:42.090 --> 01:07:46.309
to the chamber, Sarah, I go to the chamber. This

01:07:46.309 --> 01:07:48.130
is a business chamber. People talking about their

01:07:48.130 --> 01:07:51.130
plumbing and their real estate. There's a whole

01:07:51.130 --> 01:07:53.150
people line up and they come and get their hug

01:07:53.150 --> 01:07:56.369
from me. I hug them and they receive their hug.

01:07:57.159 --> 01:07:59.059
Because it's free and it helps them and they

01:07:59.059 --> 01:08:02.500
know it. Have you ever seen, it's Amma. She's

01:08:02.500 --> 01:08:06.679
alive and well. She's a Hindu. I think she's

01:08:06.679 --> 01:08:09.820
a saint. And she has a hugging ministry. So she

01:08:09.820 --> 01:08:12.280
basically sits there for 12 hours on this big

01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:14.559
podium and there's flowers. And all she does

01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:17.579
is hug people all day long. I'm going to send

01:08:17.579 --> 01:08:20.789
you. Ama, her name is, she's alive now. I mean,

01:08:20.810 --> 01:08:23.210
she's revered in India and it is just hugging.

01:08:23.289 --> 01:08:26.149
What she is doing is called a Shakti put. She's

01:08:26.149 --> 01:08:29.189
putting energy into them in her presence. I do

01:08:29.189 --> 01:08:32.750
that. And when I hug people, you talk about ayahuasca

01:08:32.750 --> 01:08:35.510
being the mother, right? I actually, when I,

01:08:35.609 --> 01:08:38.670
it's an energetic imprint, right? So when I hug

01:08:38.670 --> 01:08:41.670
people, like if you come in, you're just a brand

01:08:41.670 --> 01:08:44.689
new client. When I hug you, what I'm doing is

01:08:44.689 --> 01:08:48.119
I'm actually visualizing. All of the mothers

01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:52.199
throughout your entire lineage. To infinity.

01:08:52.260 --> 01:08:55.039
All of your mothers. This is your mental process.

01:08:55.180 --> 01:08:57.380
This is what I do before I hug the person. Wow.

01:08:58.260 --> 01:09:01.279
All of the mothers to infinity. And I'm realizing

01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:07.500
that you are their dream. You are their dream.

01:09:07.760 --> 01:09:10.159
Every mother wants to do better. They want to

01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:12.979
love and extend love to their progeny. And they

01:09:12.979 --> 01:09:14.239
want their progeny to do better. And you are

01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:18.020
their dream. So what I do is I manifest that

01:09:18.020 --> 01:09:20.180
energy within me, and we're going to have an

01:09:20.180 --> 01:09:22.760
energy worker on our next podcast. We'll talk

01:09:22.760 --> 01:09:27.100
about energy. But I manifest that coherent energy,

01:09:27.260 --> 01:09:33.260
and I hug the person as if it was like a group

01:09:33.260 --> 01:09:36.140
hug from all of the mothers, and I surround that

01:09:36.140 --> 01:09:38.880
person with that loving. nurturing, maternal

01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:41.659
love. That's a big intent, a big transfer. You're

01:09:41.659 --> 01:09:44.340
transmitting something. But it's not me by myself.

01:09:44.560 --> 01:09:46.579
It's coming through. I'm literally summoning

01:09:46.579 --> 01:09:49.960
all of her ancestors to be present with her because

01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:54.239
she needs it. And you can't not cry. It's impossible

01:09:54.239 --> 01:09:58.760
to not cry. If you permit it. But the people

01:09:58.760 --> 01:10:00.680
who don't cry, they're almost always on medications.

01:10:01.340 --> 01:10:04.859
So what you're saying about being numb? They

01:10:04.859 --> 01:10:07.119
don't cry because they're not able to receive

01:10:07.119 --> 01:10:10.460
it. It's like having a radio and it's got no

01:10:10.460 --> 01:10:13.119
batteries or it's got the wrong circuitry or

01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.460
there's a cut wire. They can't receive that blessing

01:10:16.460 --> 01:10:18.899
because their circuitry is being short -circuited.

01:10:18.899 --> 01:10:21.439
Yes, it is being transmitted, but they can't

01:10:21.439 --> 01:10:23.140
receive it. Yeah, they don't have the receiving

01:10:23.140 --> 01:10:25.500
capability. But once they're off the drugs, they

01:10:25.500 --> 01:10:27.550
can receive, they can cry, they can... Do whatever

01:10:27.550 --> 01:10:29.670
they have to do. So your life now, the fact that

01:10:29.670 --> 01:10:31.810
you can actually experience emotion again is

01:10:31.810 --> 01:10:36.050
very liberating, isn't it? That's good. So it's

01:10:36.050 --> 01:10:38.449
a success story. It is. The whole thing, three

01:10:38.449 --> 01:10:40.890
years today. Honestly, I look at it as... I mean,

01:10:40.890 --> 01:10:42.270
where would you have been if you hadn't have

01:10:42.270 --> 01:10:45.050
just had all this taken out of you? I mean, it

01:10:45.050 --> 01:10:47.069
was almost like an exorcism. I don't know that

01:10:47.069 --> 01:10:49.010
I'd be here. Really? I really don't know that

01:10:49.010 --> 01:10:53.789
I'd be here. Yeah. It was... a true healing and

01:10:53.789 --> 01:10:56.850
i the best i can equate it to is a miracle yeah

01:10:56.850 --> 01:11:00.949
absolute miracle i never and your work now what's

01:11:00.949 --> 01:11:03.310
your daily work to break the patterns of thinking

01:11:03.310 --> 01:11:06.489
that got you into that situation so my work now

01:11:06.489 --> 01:11:10.390
is you know to to reinforce all the positives

01:11:10.390 --> 01:11:12.930
that i've learned to live in gratitude to right

01:11:12.930 --> 01:11:17.689
to to be in a state of Feeling gratitude, feeling

01:11:17.689 --> 01:11:20.189
blessed. You know, I really am blessed. It's

01:11:20.189 --> 01:11:23.569
not easy for me to say I feel it, but it's not

01:11:23.569 --> 01:11:26.649
easy for me to express because. The reality of

01:11:26.649 --> 01:11:29.670
my life was I never used those words. I never

01:11:29.670 --> 01:11:31.689
really used those words and truly felt them.

01:11:31.789 --> 01:11:33.750
You didn't know what they meant. Right. And so

01:11:33.750 --> 01:11:36.710
now to actually feel those things and be able

01:11:36.710 --> 01:11:39.430
to express those things, expressing things openly,

01:11:39.529 --> 01:11:42.229
I'm an introvert by nature. So expressing things

01:11:42.229 --> 01:11:45.750
like that, it's a little challenging to begin

01:11:45.750 --> 01:11:48.909
with just because of how I'm wired, but also

01:11:48.909 --> 01:11:51.770
because that wasn't. That wasn't the way I was.

01:11:51.949 --> 01:11:53.789
Well, the majority of your life, maybe 40 years,

01:11:53.850 --> 01:11:55.949
was spent in a certain way. So you've got to

01:11:55.949 --> 01:11:58.789
reinvent yourself. For sure. And that's your

01:11:58.789 --> 01:12:02.229
great work now. Yeah. The hard part's been done.

01:12:02.449 --> 01:12:03.890
Oh, the hard part's over. You've got all that

01:12:03.890 --> 01:12:06.670
bullshit's gone. So now it's just embracing that

01:12:06.670 --> 01:12:09.149
and integrating that experience. So Jess, what

01:12:09.149 --> 01:12:12.630
is your hope as people listen to this episode?

01:12:13.260 --> 01:12:14.979
And Sarah, thanks for being open to having another

01:12:14.979 --> 01:12:17.359
guest. Yeah. I love this. I think it's a great

01:12:17.359 --> 01:12:19.920
format. It's fascinating. You're only our third

01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:22.079
guest, or maybe third, fourth, third, whatever.

01:12:22.300 --> 01:12:23.800
I'm going to have to be a guest on my own show

01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:26.720
after I've done it. But I think it's really cool.

01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:29.340
I didn't expect we'd have guests, but after 60

01:12:29.340 --> 01:12:33.079
episodes, I think it's time. I think so. So we're

01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:34.960
going to start having other guests. The whole

01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:37.420
premise is this is a soul's journey. What does

01:12:37.420 --> 01:12:40.399
this mean to our soul's journey? But what is

01:12:40.399 --> 01:12:43.229
your hope? For somebody that's listening to this

01:12:43.229 --> 01:12:45.590
podcast, what do you hope they pull from it?

01:12:46.050 --> 01:12:49.689
So I'd say first, my hope is that someone would

01:12:49.689 --> 01:12:51.789
feel some hope, you know, especially if you deal

01:12:51.789 --> 01:12:55.170
with depression. Just know that you're not alone

01:12:55.170 --> 01:13:00.189
and there's an answer out there for you too.

01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:03.439
Maybe it's not ayahuasca. Maybe it's something

01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:05.840
else. And I hope that you find that something

01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:09.220
else, whatever it is. This is my story and my

01:13:09.220 --> 01:13:12.880
journey and how I found healing and I was able

01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:16.699
to overcome depression and live a life I never

01:13:16.699 --> 01:13:21.159
thought I'd be able to live. So hope would be

01:13:21.159 --> 01:13:25.699
first and foremost. Don't give up. Keep trying.

01:13:25.859 --> 01:13:28.140
Keep pushing. Keep fighting. It sucks, but you

01:13:28.140 --> 01:13:32.220
can do it. Keep looking. And I guess secondary

01:13:32.220 --> 01:13:35.920
to that is we as a culture just need to be more

01:13:35.920 --> 01:13:40.279
open. We need to stop saying no and start saying

01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:43.279
maybe. Yeah, let's look into this. Could this

01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:44.760
be something? Do you think that there's some

01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:47.960
conspiracy within the powers that be that don't

01:13:47.960 --> 01:13:50.239
want a load of enlightened people walking around

01:13:50.239 --> 01:13:53.460
the planet? Because if you open up these realms

01:13:53.460 --> 01:13:55.340
and this liberates people, maybe we're going

01:13:55.340 --> 01:13:58.500
to be harder to govern and manage. Who is easier

01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:01.840
to control? Is it? brainwashed depressed sick

01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:04.000
people it's kind of like you were just that numb

01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:06.899
robot right right is it is it those people or

01:14:06.899 --> 01:14:09.180
is it the people who found healing who are happy

01:14:09.180 --> 01:14:11.380
who are productive who we might be up against

01:14:11.380 --> 01:14:13.500
a kind of a machine but we still have to push

01:14:13.500 --> 01:14:15.760
through have conversations like this and it's

01:14:15.760 --> 01:14:17.699
encouraging that conversations like this are

01:14:17.699 --> 01:14:19.640
happening that there's all these documentaries

01:14:19.640 --> 01:14:22.239
out there that i never dreamed i would be able

01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:24.079
to i'm gonna watch one so i'm going on to netflix

01:14:24.079 --> 01:14:27.560
tonight yeah there's there's If you search, you

01:14:27.560 --> 01:14:30.239
will find. And you can go onto YouTube and put

01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:32.600
that in. And there's loads of people taking journeys.

01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:34.800
Aubrey Marcus is another one. He's done a lot

01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:37.220
and he's great. And I love hearing about, and

01:14:37.220 --> 01:14:39.699
he just sounds like a very well -adjusted, expanded

01:14:39.699 --> 01:14:42.579
man. So he's an inspiration. And I think that's.

01:14:43.130 --> 01:14:45.649
well it's available these these youtube videos

01:14:45.649 --> 01:14:47.390
and that's where i see all my videos they're

01:14:47.390 --> 01:14:51.369
there they're being downloaded and you can arrive

01:14:51.369 --> 01:14:53.449
at you know more information than you could have

01:14:53.449 --> 01:14:56.369
done 10 years ago there's some amazing thought

01:14:56.369 --> 01:14:58.770
leaders that are coming to the forefront and

01:14:58.770 --> 01:15:01.489
and making an impact and their voices are being

01:15:01.489 --> 01:15:05.689
heard but also acknowledging this psychedelics

01:15:05.689 --> 01:15:08.789
this isn't new You know, they were doing some

01:15:08.789 --> 01:15:11.810
incredible studies in the 60s and it was showing

01:15:11.810 --> 01:15:15.050
incredible things for people who are dealing

01:15:15.050 --> 01:15:19.409
with trauma and PTSD and veterans. And there

01:15:19.409 --> 01:15:21.949
were so many positives that came out of it. But,

01:15:21.989 --> 01:15:27.329
you know, it's it's not lucrative. And there's

01:15:27.329 --> 01:15:28.890
some major challenges to it. I also think in

01:15:28.890 --> 01:15:31.689
the 60s, you had the backlash of a lot of people,

01:15:31.729 --> 01:15:34.149
the hippie culture in California. And it was

01:15:34.149 --> 01:15:36.369
like, you know, it was portrayed as a load of

01:15:36.369 --> 01:15:38.710
zombies. That everybody's going to lose their

01:15:38.710 --> 01:15:39.449
mind. You know, they're walking around and their

01:15:39.449 --> 01:15:41.470
children are playing in the street and they're

01:15:41.470 --> 01:15:43.930
not coherent. And it was a really bad. Kind of

01:15:43.930 --> 01:15:47.890
like it is right now. Funny that, isn't it? Unfortunately,

01:15:47.890 --> 01:15:50.090
there were some big scare tactics. But, you know,

01:15:50.090 --> 01:15:53.909
even beyond the 60s, like there are, it is. biblical

01:15:53.909 --> 01:15:57.250
i mean i i can't quote that this is actually

01:15:57.250 --> 01:16:00.250
totally factual but i have heard that if you

01:16:00.250 --> 01:16:03.989
were to mix frankincense and myrrh together it

01:16:03.989 --> 01:16:06.289
would create a psychedelic compound it's probably

01:16:06.289 --> 01:16:08.729
what ezekiel happened to ezekiel in theory in

01:16:08.729 --> 01:16:11.010
theory there could have been psychedelics oh

01:16:11.010 --> 01:16:13.970
i think she's sure i mean i absolutely well let

01:16:13.970 --> 01:16:16.770
me just go way back let me just give you an insight

01:16:16.770 --> 01:16:19.989
everybody thinks gold set gold frankincense and

01:16:19.989 --> 01:16:23.289
myrrh they automatically think gold is this This

01:16:23.289 --> 01:16:27.250
precious metal. My position is it was not gold,

01:16:27.289 --> 01:16:30.289
the precious metal. My position is it was probably

01:16:30.289 --> 01:16:33.970
something like curcumin or turmeric. Because

01:16:33.970 --> 01:16:36.970
why would you have two herbs and then a stack

01:16:36.970 --> 01:16:39.369
of metal? That makes no sense. Something gold

01:16:39.369 --> 01:16:42.109
in color. It was gold in color. It could have

01:16:42.109 --> 01:16:45.170
been any one of the golden herbs. But the trinity,

01:16:45.189 --> 01:16:47.590
the three of those together, probably had some

01:16:47.590 --> 01:16:50.380
beautiful... impact on the people and that's

01:16:50.380 --> 01:16:53.079
how all the sacred and spiritual literature got

01:16:53.079 --> 01:16:55.140
written maybe because we're in some spiritual

01:16:55.140 --> 01:16:57.739
realm i want to thank you for the the reference

01:16:57.739 --> 01:16:59.659
to giving hope because the first thing you said

01:16:59.659 --> 01:17:02.380
was offer hope i actually grew up with depression

01:17:02.380 --> 01:17:04.880
i was very sad very depressed i was trying to

01:17:04.880 --> 01:17:07.220
make sense of the world kneeling in church looking

01:17:07.220 --> 01:17:10.699
at this this figure of this man bleeding out

01:17:10.699 --> 01:17:12.960
and have my grandma telling me it's my fault

01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:16.579
I'm like, shoot, I suck. You nearly said it,

01:17:16.579 --> 01:17:20.399
didn't you? I suck. I almost said the word, but

01:17:20.399 --> 01:17:22.659
I didn't know the word at the time. But now I

01:17:22.659 --> 01:17:24.520
know it, but I didn't say it. But it's like,

01:17:24.619 --> 01:17:27.159
man, dude, I'm so sorry. I don't know you, but

01:17:27.159 --> 01:17:29.199
your cross is heavier because me, I'm a piece

01:17:29.199 --> 01:17:32.720
of crap. I mean, those things, they will mess

01:17:32.720 --> 01:17:36.829
you up. We have those conversations all the time,

01:17:36.909 --> 01:17:40.510
but I grew up feeling so sad and so guilty, but

01:17:40.510 --> 01:17:43.270
I didn't share it. And what I want to do in my

01:17:43.270 --> 01:17:46.510
favor to anyone listening to this, if you would

01:17:46.510 --> 01:17:49.689
have known me growing up, I was a very happy

01:17:49.689 --> 01:17:54.689
child, but a lot of it was fake. Some of the

01:17:54.689 --> 01:17:57.470
happiest people you think you know are going

01:17:57.470 --> 01:18:00.229
through some stuff, and some of it's pretty heavy.

01:18:00.569 --> 01:18:04.260
So what I'm going to ask people is this. I'm

01:18:04.260 --> 01:18:06.000
going to ask you, first of all, all y 'all are

01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:10.020
great at sharing these episodes. We have people

01:18:10.020 --> 01:18:12.619
all across the world. We're probably in 50 countries

01:18:12.619 --> 01:18:18.880
now with this broadcast podcast. We don't know

01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:22.140
who's suffering and who's not. I'm going to thank

01:18:22.140 --> 01:18:24.300
you in advance for just sharing this with people.

01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:29.960
Just let them be the judge. Don't automatically

01:18:29.960 --> 01:18:33.239
think that they don't need to hear this. Send

01:18:33.239 --> 01:18:36.159
it to them and ask them their opinion, even though

01:18:36.159 --> 01:18:38.260
you don't care about their opinion. Just send

01:18:38.260 --> 01:18:41.659
it to them. Just send it to them because I would

01:18:41.659 --> 01:18:43.600
have loved to have known about this. I'm going

01:18:43.600 --> 01:18:46.699
to say when I was a teenager, this conversation

01:18:46.699 --> 01:18:48.539
I think would have been more relevant to me than

01:18:48.539 --> 01:18:52.239
now. If I didn't know how to control myself now,

01:18:52.260 --> 01:18:55.420
but I had to go through all my stuff, same as

01:18:55.420 --> 01:18:57.300
you. You've got all the tools now. But now I've

01:18:57.300 --> 01:19:01.920
got the tools. Very powerful nutrition, nutraceuticals

01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:04.619
that bring balance. I've got probiotics. I know

01:19:04.619 --> 01:19:07.640
how to use them. I understand. I live in paradise,

01:19:07.920 --> 01:19:12.539
right? I walk barefoot. I touch nature all the

01:19:12.539 --> 01:19:16.520
time. Most people can't do that. So everyone's

01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:18.640
situation is different. But what I'm saying is

01:19:18.640 --> 01:19:23.420
that everyone's got a different part of their

01:19:23.420 --> 01:19:25.600
journey, whether this applies to them or not.

01:19:25.640 --> 01:19:27.939
We don't want to be the judge. as to whether

01:19:27.939 --> 01:19:30.279
this applies to them. It might not. We want them

01:19:30.279 --> 01:19:34.460
to be the judge. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So anyway,

01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:36.779
thank you for being our guest. Thank you for

01:19:36.779 --> 01:19:39.220
having me. Any closing thoughts on the way you

01:19:39.220 --> 01:19:41.340
wrapped it up beautifully for your wish for the

01:19:41.340 --> 01:19:44.960
future? Anything else to add? Can people get

01:19:44.960 --> 01:19:46.680
a hold of you through me? I know you want your

01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:50.439
privacy. So if somebody wants to... Ask you a

01:19:50.439 --> 01:19:52.760
specific question. They can contact me and I'll

01:19:52.760 --> 01:19:55.000
give them the answer through me. Yes, absolutely.

01:19:55.180 --> 01:19:57.720
Folks, you can do that through souldecodes .com.

01:19:57.920 --> 01:20:00.819
There's a little contact page. Say, hey, this

01:20:00.819 --> 01:20:05.260
is for Jess. Ask her this. I'll send the message

01:20:05.260 --> 01:20:07.279
to you and you do what you want to do. Perfect.

01:20:07.560 --> 01:20:10.260
Sarah, any closing thoughts? Well, thank you.

01:20:10.319 --> 01:20:12.359
It's been wonderful talking to you. And I love

01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:15.619
meeting your brother. And like you, this hope.

01:20:16.060 --> 01:20:18.479
And it could be something that you find. I mean,

01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:21.920
your mind is going to be expanded. This isn't

01:20:21.920 --> 01:20:24.279
an experience. I mean, you've got to be pretty

01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:27.600
sure that you're mentally stable enough to go

01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:29.859
to that area, process that and come back. And

01:20:29.859 --> 01:20:31.600
there are stories of people that have broken

01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:34.569
down as a result of that. So there is a danger

01:20:34.569 --> 01:20:38.210
element to it. But trust your gut. Do the research

01:20:38.210 --> 01:20:41.689
on it. And if you like you were aware, you know

01:20:41.689 --> 01:20:44.090
what? I've got to do something because this absolutely

01:20:44.090 --> 01:20:47.970
sucks. Have you met anyone that hasn't come back

01:20:47.970 --> 01:20:49.569
from this? Because when I asked your brother,

01:20:49.729 --> 01:20:51.550
he said what he was talking about, the church

01:20:51.550 --> 01:20:54.189
that he used to go to and the reviews, even though

01:20:54.189 --> 01:20:56.750
people had a hardcore experience, the reviews

01:20:56.750 --> 01:20:59.229
were fantastic that they wouldn't change that

01:20:59.229 --> 01:21:02.220
experience. So it might be a bit freaky. might

01:21:02.220 --> 01:21:04.520
be hardcore it might take your breath away it

01:21:04.520 --> 01:21:06.300
might you might need a few days a few weeks to

01:21:06.300 --> 01:21:09.279
come back from it but ultimately nothing much

01:21:09.279 --> 01:21:12.340
can happen to you now everyone that I have met

01:21:12.340 --> 01:21:15.279
that has gone through this you know with me or

01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:18.340
during instances where I volunteered when other

01:21:18.340 --> 01:21:21.239
people were going through this everyone came

01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:25.800
out the other side with the most beautiful stories

01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:28.739
the most beautiful feelings the healing they

01:21:28.739 --> 01:21:32.350
needed you know, work to be done on the other

01:21:32.350 --> 01:21:33.970
side. It's never done. That's what we're here

01:21:33.970 --> 01:21:37.029
for. Well, that's what I'd like to leave the

01:21:37.029 --> 01:21:39.970
show with, that it's a beautiful experience,

01:21:40.050 --> 01:21:43.310
even though it's hardcore, and it can revolutionize

01:21:43.310 --> 01:21:46.859
your entire existence. 100%. So I look forward

01:21:46.859 --> 01:21:48.619
to doing it in the next couple of months and

01:21:48.619 --> 01:21:52.539
then we'll have another podcast. Well, I want

01:21:52.539 --> 01:21:54.460
to thank everybody for joining us today on Soul

01:21:54.460 --> 01:21:56.479
Decodes. Jess, thanks for joining us. Sarah,

01:21:56.579 --> 01:21:58.140
it's always good to see you. Thank you, darling.

01:21:58.140 --> 01:22:00.359
It's lovely to be here. You can go to souldecodes

01:22:00.359 --> 01:22:03.729
.com. A lot of the information we have, the show

01:22:03.729 --> 01:22:06.130
notes, I'll put some links. I'll put a link to

01:22:06.130 --> 01:22:08.989
the Live Pure products. You can order. What I

01:22:08.989 --> 01:22:11.409
was talking about is called Serene. Yes, so let

01:22:11.409 --> 01:22:13.210
me score a little bit of that on the way out.

01:22:13.270 --> 01:22:15.909
Yeah, I'll score something. And I'll take that.

01:22:15.989 --> 01:22:18.550
So yeah, we'll be in the show notes and we'll

01:22:18.550 --> 01:22:20.149
talk to you next time. Thanks in advance for

01:22:20.149 --> 01:22:22.090
sharing Soul Decodes with somebody you care about.

01:22:22.210 --> 01:22:42.079
Take care now. Soul Decodes, a featured presentation,

01:22:42.420 --> 01:22:45.159
airs every Friday on the Earth Angel Media Network.

01:22:47.239 --> 01:22:49.920
This episode of Soul Decodes is sponsored and

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produced by Live Pure. Optimize your life by

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taking your health to the next level. Listen

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now to learn how Live Pure will make your world

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better. Live Pure is an American -based distribution

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picks the best products and nutrients from world

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the world's best, but for only about a dollar

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per cup. Soul Decodes listeners looking for youth,

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beauty and better health can get wholesale pricing

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the Industry affiliate program, which provides

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up to seven different payment vectors. Content

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creators aligned with Live Pure and Earth Angel

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Media will enjoy massive co -marketing benefits,

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including a personally branded website. Sign

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up as an affiliate brand partner at www.livepure.biz/gateway

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Or drop us a note

01:24:29.930 --> 01:24:33.170
at earthangelproject .com. Check out the show

01:24:33.170 --> 01:24:34.090
notes for more details.