The following Earth Angel Media presentation
is brought to you commercial free as a gratuity
from the sponsor producer named after the show.
Please consider their message. Find other high
value shows listed at earthangelproject .com.
Enjoy the show. Welcome to Soul Decodes. Join
us as we wander off the path to find the ideas
that fascinate. We talk about spirituality, the
mind, the ego, wellness and hidden history with
tips, travels and tales. Charms for a better
life. Welcome. My name is Dr. Tia Jolie Phillips.
I am so excited today because we have our second
guest. We'll introduce him in a moment. But today
is October 31st, and this is episode 63. You're
listening to Soul Decodes, and I'm with... The
prolific author and thinker, Sarah Tirri. Hello,
everyone. How are you doing, Sarah? Nice to be
back. What's exciting in your world? It's my
wedding anniversary today, 31 years, and it's
my daughter's 28th birthday. I had my third child
on my third wedding anniversary. Go figure. Happy
birthday, sweetie. So glad. Now, we had a guest
last week, and we learned some things from that,
some things we can do better and things that
we did really well. No interrogating. But we
did get some really positive. the feedback so
we so i've actually got more guests lined up
but today we have our our friend um i met mike
uh probably a couple months ago about a couple
months ago so mike um why don't you mike Solis
is pronounced Solis right Solis so uh
Mike Solis is a graphic artist i actually contacted
him because uh he was working at a graphic art
he still is working at a graphic arts place and
i wanted to get um a next version of my earth
angel logo. And, um, Mike's like, yeah, we can,
we can work on that for you. So I was super excited.
But then as I got to know more of Mike, I was
just really engaged, like really, um, soulful,
spiritual level. He's a very earthy person. So
Mike, I want to welcome you to soul decodes.
Thank you. I want to thank both of you. Um, honestly,
this is going to be a form of therapy for me.
It's called integration. It's where you get,
there's not too many people. There's not a lot
of weird people like me out there that are doing
what I'm doing. Yeah. So, um, you know, there's
only so much that my business partner and my
family can honestly take before you just kind
of. I wouldn't say that it's a... Lonely? It's
lonely, but it is not sad. No. It is not sad.
Solitude, but not lonely. Yeah, I still haven't
ran into my first ayahuasca in the wild, like
out just cruising around. So before we get into
all of this discussion, why don't we talk about,
before we talk about your journey and your experiences
with the spiritual aspect of ayahuasca and things
like that, Who is Mike? Like, where'd you grow
up? Where's your home? Like, give us the basics.
Oh, basics. I was born here in Claremont. Okay.
And my, like a brief run through my childhood
was amazing. I had an amazing childhood. My parents
had a large property on a lake. And yeah, my
younger years were just filled with fishing,
catching alligators, snakes. It was very... very
nature jungle nature life you know um an amazing
childhood and then you have siblings uh older
brother and older sister and um and after that
uh i did work with my parents all through middle
school which is which i will get into later so
i feel it's relevant with ego i'll explain that
um the um i started working with my dad when
i was around middle school all through high school
and I like to say that, how to put it? I would
say that the devil put his claws in my back at
17, right before I turned 18. And from that point
on, it was, it was the battle, you know, normal,
nothing. My battle is no different than anybody
else's battle. You know, it was just, it was
just my battle. Yeah. It was just my battle.
That's the, that's the moment he decided to take
it, take his first bite. And, um, Yeah, traveled
the country. I decided to get an RV right when
I got out of high school. And it was just like,
are you allowed a free talk? Is it a complete
free talk? This is a complete conversation, whatever.
Yeah, right when I got out of graduate high school,
I was just like, fuck this, I got to leave. Like,
I can't be here anymore. And did you have somewhere
you wanted to go particularly or just wanted
to get away? It was more of a, now I would say
it was like a spiritual run. It was, it was more,
there was more pressure and negative that was
constantly hounding me that I just felt like
I needed to get out. And yeah, I made it up to
North Carolina with my cousin for about a year,
just building stuff. And, um, then my mom got
diagnosed with breast cancer. So I moved home.
My parents sold the company because my dad decided
that, you know, if you're going to battle a sickness
that's all based around stress, stress is one
of the key factors. So he was like, I just want
to get rid of the business, the headaches. He
bought an RV, and they just started traveling
throughout her therapies. And I moved home for
a year. It's funny because about one year later,
she got a clear bill of health, and the people
that bought over my parents' company ran it down,
and they closed the doors. So when my mom got
the clear bill of health, my dad went to the
bank and got it right back. And we flipped the
name. And then once they got kind of established
and everything, I was like, all right, fuck it.
I'm out of here again. You know, I got to leave
again. And then I left and went to Texas for
about a year and a half, maybe two years. Then
I got a phone call that I had an opportunity
to go up to California. So I was in California
for three. And how was your mind during this
time? Getting away, did it improve your mental
health? It made it worse. It did. It made it
worse. Yeah, that's where I really started fighting.
Going from RV living to getting the RV in a situation
where I couldn't access it regularly. And being
in a spot where my only financial means were
like two hours away from where my RV. So it was
like, I'm just going to sleep in my truck Monday
through Friday. So for clarity, like what were
some of the struggles you were facing? Like,
this is pretty cryptic to me. I see you, you
grew up. I understand what happened with your
family and your mom and your businesses. I get
that. But when you're talking about the struggles,
what types of struggles were we talking about
here? Probably just the concept of who I am,
what I am. Well, that's very central. That's
very central to the theme of this because soul
decodes is our premise is that each one of us
has a soul and it's on a journey. And sometimes
we can't figure out what's going on around us.
So what you're sharing is very central, I would
say, to what we talk about, right? So, yeah,
I just want to clarify for brand new listeners,
you know, there's such a stigma out there about,
uh hallucinogenics and drugs and you know herbal
remedies you know it's so negative i think um
it's early though 17 because i did a sim but
i was 33 and it happened much later i did have
children so you're very young to be in that but
probably an old soul because you would choose
that at a young age yeah i've always felt like
i was an old soul yeah yeah my favorite artist
is bill withers Yeah, yeah. I've got this terrible
joke to tell you quickly. How do you turn a duck
into a soul singer? How? You put it in a microwave
and it's Bill Withers. Sorry. So bad. So sorry.
So you're on this journey. So for a few years,
but you haven't improved mentally. Getting away
didn't help. And your question, obviously, were
they being answered? No, because I think that
you get to a spot where you don't even know what
you're asking. So you kind of get trapped in
this. It's almost like when you have certain
traumas, that section of your brain kind of shuts
off to where when you try to access it, it's
kind of like, I don't want to go there. I don't
want to go there. But it's still a portion of
your brain that should be being used. Yes. Integrated.
Yes. But every time you try to emotionally anything,
something triggers it, your defense mechanism
is, I don't even want to open that door. And
you just feel that pain of getting close to the
energy. So you're curious, but also blocking
the very area. Also blocking it. And I would
say that even as I was traveling, I wasn't necessarily
in a bad mindset. I wasn't necessarily in a bad
place. I was excited. I was happy. I had friends.
I was living life. But at the same time, it was...
You know, you have your your own individual,
you know, pains that you do know of that, you
know, every time that comes up, you're it's a
hit. And so I don't I don't really know. I'm
I know exactly why I was running, but. I wouldn't
say that I was in a depressed mindset. I was
never depressed. I was never... It sounds a little
bit like you didn't understand meaning. There
was no meaning. Exactly. I was just going to
say that. What's our purpose? Do you feel like
your situation was unique to you or do you think
it's pervasive in the world? Oh, I think there's
a ton of people that are in the same position
and where they just truly don't understand what
we are or who we are. What makes you feel that
way? What's the basis of your... assessment ayahuasca
and i can't explain how i know how i because
you can't there's certain things that when it
happens to you you just understand it it doesn't
have to be explained to you and it's more of
like you understand something that you fully
can't express but the feeling is so pure that
you understand it like one one thing that i i've
recently started understanding is You know, I
believe in the concept of reincarnation to an
extent. To an extent. I think after you would
have a chance at a certain point to have, do
you want to redo this? Yes, you can graduate.
You can graduate to an extent to be like, do
you want to redo this? It's like a brother you
didn't know you had. I agree with that. And you
can choose to come back at that point. You can
choose to come back or you almost get into a
spot where it's... It's not really a choice.
It's almost like you you may have to be forced
to redo this until and you're going to be forced
to redo this until you figure out what exactly
you are. Yeah. And so. I think in my novel, just
briefly, I did Inauguration Hall, which was the
second chapter, and we signed up for this and
there was no backing out. But we knew that coming
in and we knew it would be very difficult to
return a lot of the times. And we do, we're committed.
So we're not forced to come back because our
original agreement, we signed up for it. But
I agree with what you're saying. We just want
to run a mile sometimes. Yes, and I would agree
with that. It would also play into how I recently
started feeling where I truly believe this is
my last one. How good. Yes. That's fascinating.
And I told you that when I first met, I said,
I'm pretty sure this is my last time through
here. I told you that. So you mentioned off the
air, you know, backstage that there was this
community of people. Do you think there's this
community of people that surround you, people
like you that because of the... ayahuasca experience
or this this idea that they're seeking more about
who they are and why they're here or both is
there what what makes the community what's the
basis of the community good question i've seen
i've seen multiple different communities so there's
communities when i first started drinking ayahuasca
it was in a legalized church in orlando how old
are you if you don't mind um it was a 2022 so
i was 30 right now i'm 38 so it's maybe 35 34
right around that age um and it's funny because
i've always been the crazy one my whole life
i've been the you know i've been i've had just
kind of crazy ideas a little bit people think
i'm calm i'm witty and kind of that was just
my role and i can that faces off of a lot of
an ego when we get into ego um and um So when
I hit my low, I got to a spot where I understood
I didn't want to die. I didn't want to leave
this planet, right? But I was ready to die. I
was ready to die. And in a spiritual, I didn't
understand how. And I don't remember what got
me to research ayahuasca. I can't remember that
part. Maybe you were led. Somehow I was led.
And I remember researching it and figuring out
that, like, you can go off in the jungle and
you can spiritually die. And I'm like, well,
shit, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Like,
oh, my God. Like, wow. And I'm an open book with
my parents, with everyone. What did your parents
think? Oh, at first, I remember I went and I
told my dad. Because my dad is always the type
that's... don't get tattoos. And yeah, yeah.
You smoke cigarettes. I can smell it. You know
what? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and so I go to him
first because I, yeah, let's get it out of the
way. I just kind of want to see his reaction.
But, um, yeah, at first he was like, you know,
it's the typical where he's back. Oh, you know,
cause we have a good relationship. Did it surprise
him? no he was more like you're an idiot you're
crazy you know and then it led on to where like
he would be cruising around the office and I'd
be doing something he'd walk by me and I would
just kind of pretend like I'm gonna throw up
because in ayahuasca you can purge so um he would
walk by and I'm like dad I'm be in the jungle
and just he's like you're an idiot and I was
like I kept telling him like I'm really gonna
do this man I just want you to know you know
and um and then um My wife, who was my girlfriend
at the time, got pregnant. Oh, it's funny because
we figured out that she was pregnant about a
month before I was going to go. i had my itinerary
i had everything a lot was going down i was getting
ready to go mentally i've got a soul on the brink
of leaving yes soul coming in yes and i like
my i had my itinerary i knew the place i was
going to go was in peru um i had everything lined
up And then we figured out that when you say
go, you're talking about go on this ayahuasca
journey or go depart this place. Go on an ayahuasca
journey. So I was going to my ideal. My first
one was to go out of this, out of and go on my
first one. But then I remember my wife telling
me that we were pregnant and I love kids. I love.
I'm super excited. I'm ready. You know, she was
more worried, you know, because her parents are
going to get upset. But I already knew I'm locked
into this world regardless. This is my child.
You know, so I was really excited. I was telling
her like, you know, we're going to be fine. It's
not. And then once she, you know, she goes off
and goes to sleep or whatever, I won't lie. I
went on my patio and I cried for about two days
because I knew in my soul I was not going to
leave to go. to do something that I don't know
what was going to happen to me. Especially like
I had to see my kid there. So I knew that. So
you're kind of grieving a little bit. Yes. Because
you would have gone otherwise. I would have gone.
And that was, but it's all meant to be now. Sure.
Did you realize that at the time? I realized
that my opportunity to go was gone, but I didn't,
I knew that the idea of me eventually finding
it was not gone, but it was on a, pretty significant
standstill because I knew that I would have had
to wait until she's old enough. Yeah. Like it
was the gamble. You don't know what's coming.
And, um, yeah, your paternal instincts had taken
over. Yeah. So I'm sorry to interject, but I'm
just trying to get the picture here. At this
point, your, your mom and dad are both still
alive. Yep. And now are they currently still
both alive? Yep. And if you could weave that
in, cause as a parent, Because my son, I told
you, he's in Austin, Texas. He's done ayahuasca.
And as a parent, you know, these things go through
my mind. Like, how did your parents respond or
do they care? I mean, how's that all? I think
at first. Well, your dad was like stupid little
shit. That was the beginning. But when he sees
the outcome, like now that you've been back and
you can explain the journey, does he care or
does he? Oh, he loves him. Okay. And it's surprising
how they both are very intrigued. And it's with
what I do. And it's only because my sister did
it with me. So she comes with the cred. Yeah.
And it was, it was beautiful. It was meant to
be because about six years after maybe five or
six years after my daughter was born, I was still
in the spot where I'm researching this. This
would be so amazing. Everyone thought I was crazy
because I was talking about people. I want to
do this. My sister thought I was crazy and my
mom thought I was crazy. My dad thought I was
my brother. Everyone's like, you're crazy for
wanting to do this. And I bet they secretly admired
it as well. Now, I think they do now for sure.
For sure. But about four or five years later,
my sister. Oh, I'm going to get, hold on. I brought,
I brought tissue. I knew this was going to get
me. I knew, um, I knew I would get, and I'm perfectly
fine with emotions now. Okay. Me too. Oh yeah.
I love them. But my sister actually came in to
my house and sat on my couch and I remember her
just looking at me and telling me, I think I
want to do this with you. And I remember the
exact feeling. That went through me. And everything.
I just needed a fucking reason. That's all I
needed at this point. I needed. Just a solid
reason. And that's it. So I remember when she
told me. She wanted to drink with me. I was just
like Jess. I'll pay for this whole thing. I was
like let's just go now. Let's book it. What made
her volunteer? I would love to get her. to meet
with you and she can come on and... Impulse her.
So maybe we can have a follow -up. We could.
Maybe if she's willing to jump on a mic and,
you know... I'm sure she would really love to.
I'll have to buy a fourth mic if it's together.
I've had a good couple. Yeah. So this is a fascinating
story. I'm grateful. And you're with two friends.
So if you have to cry, go cry. Trust me, I will.
I will when it hits me. Yep. But yeah, she was
my reason. And she was going through a different
aspect of life at me at the time. But what was
the reason? For her? Yeah. No, you said she's
my reason. What was the reason? My reason, I
guess, was... It's hard to... I just say that
she was the reason because at that point in my
life. She was the catalyst. Your reason was your
existential crisis, but she was the one that
came along. She was the one. I just needed the
reason for the reason. She nods you. She was
the catalyst. So it was basically when she sat
down and said that she wanted to do it with me.
That's all I needed. That was the green light.
Let's do this. Yes. Like now it's beyond me.
So how long did it take from that moment till
you actually get out? Did you go to Peru? No,
there was a legalized ayahuasca church in Orlando.
Wow. Is it still going? They're not going. Yep.
We have to find the founders and let's get it
back going again. But the community is amazing.
Amazing community. There was an incident out
of the church, right? I don't want to go too
far into what, I don't know everything. But from
everything I have gathered, the only, I do not
blame the medicine. What, someone died? Yes.
Yeah. Somebody passed away. This is what I've
gathered because it was before I was even introduced.
I want to say the church was around for about
10 years. They were here for a long span and
it was a religiously. fun like that's how they
ran their company was a religious views and um
yeah somebody ended up passing away and it's
a shame isn't it because it's now around something
that people might naturally disapprove of so
it's going to be this caused that but you're
going to have people die all around the world
today any given situation what i find as a doctor
i find it fascinating that here's one instance
of one person dying of who knows what And how
many beautiful transformations took place. But
in the medical world, like the formal approved
licensed medical world, if you take medications
and your medical doctor does everything and you
follow the medical instructions perfectly and
you take the correct pharmaceuticals, correct
timing, correct everything, and you do everything
correctly and you die, no harm, no foul. No one's
going to say that. And there's a whole... research
iatrogenics iatrogenics is literally death by
medicine or death by doctors medical doctors
millions of people worldwide that are completely
compliant with their medical doctor die millions
and there's no no no talk of it so it was used
as a scapegoat but yeah yeah anyway But yeah,
throughout everything that I've just heard through
the community and through what you can Google
about it and stuff like that, I boiled it down
to where I do not blame the medicine by any means.
I think that there was a lot more going on and
the person should have had medical care rather
than spiritual care at a specific time. And so
there was multiple ends. So was that the reason
it was shut down? Yes. So with that as a backdrop,
would you say if you were engineering the next
version of the church, that maybe there should
be some sort of an onboarding? Let's just make
sure that there's a 48 -hour, like maybe do some
basic tests. They do all that. They did all that.
They do it all. Was there a doctor of medicine
on standby? They had EMTs on staff. That's a
lot of precautions worth taking. It was a beautiful
facility. It really was. It was and I had a slight
bias towards it at the beginning where when I
first came across ayahuasca, I was like, now
I want to go to the jungle. I don't want to go.
Right. Yeah. I want the real thing. And after
my sister said that she wanted to drink, it was.
Let's do it. There's a place in Orlando. So when
you were in this environment, was it a casual
environment with lounge chairs? They had big
maloca tent for ceremonies. They had a large
property. They had campfires. They had cabins
that you could rent out. It was all weekend ceremonies.
So you did about three ceremonies per weekend.
And how many people attended? Wow. I would say
that there were... anywhere between, oh, it's
got to be at least between 30 to 70 a weekend.
Wow. Maybe more. And was there a fee involved?
There's a fee. Yeah. And it was, it's, I mean.
What price do you put on that kind of healing?
Well, they've got to host you. They've got to
feed you. They've got to host you. They feed
you. They've got to give you accommodation. It's
like going on a retreat. It's going on a retreat.
And they have to pay for the medical staff. Yeah.
So there was a fee. I don't remember what it
was. I feel it was $1 ,100, $1 ,200 for the weekend.
And were you very excited or nervous going into
it? It was my first cup. I was excited. My second
cup. So this is a cup of tea. It's a cup. Does
it smell? It's bad. Is it? It doesn't smell.
Did you shit yourself and puke? No, I do. You
do throw up. You did throw up. Yes, I've thrown
up multiple times. I've gotten. It's beautiful.
it's it's not what people think and you don't
keep retching after you've thrown up you can
settle down yes yes and they call it the purge
where you're purging out anything negative or
but I've also had purges where I've thrown up
and then my journey has started and everything
started going and I've also had very powerful
ceremonies to where I went through the entire
experience to the end and I got up and went and
and purged and that purge is what made me release
back to me so i have this connection with it
to where i don't look at it as throwing up even
you maybe sounds like a useful aspect of it and
you're releasing it's a very spiritual connection
with it yeah um i so so you had your first cup
of tea and then you you threw up and then then
what happened my first My first ceremony was,
um, was my first main traumatic, my first trauma.
I look at, I look at traumas as almost like major
and minors and there's major and minor good moments.
And there's almost like you still have your flats,
almost like a piano where, and with ayahuasca,
it's a complete. visual realm that you can't
explain because it's almost 5d wow and there's
a different level of a connection with it to
where you are it at a different level to where
when you nothing is physically spoken but to
me at least i don't have any physical words But
I can tell you my grandmother. But you're interfaced
with it. You're connected with it. You would
be able to see something and then you would just
be like, I hear you. I understand. I've seen
shamanic things, huge shamanic heads radiating
smoke and just chanting. And I'll just be in
front of this massive realm with this in it.
And in that realm, are you encountering another
being or are you encountering an aspect of yourself
through another being? I wouldn't say there's
another being. I mean, it's a very motherly presence.
Ayahuasca is very motherly. They call it the
grandmother because the concept is your grandmother
will whoop your ass. But she'll also be the most
gentle and kindest soul that you've met. All
in the same. Oh, that's interesting. So ayahuasca
is the grandmother medicine. And it's so true.
It'll put you into, I don't feel like there's
necessarily another entity. It's more of me figuring
out. What's important in my life and how I can
truly filter through all of this on top of seeing
these realms that are unexplainable. So I've
been to multiple different realms and I could
talk about days about the orbs and the lights
and the snakes and all these different realms.
But all of that is just minor background noise
to my majors. Right. Like my major trauma, oh,
I fought so hard that night. So in this experience,
your major trauma was something that was being
focused on. You had the peripheral stuff going
on, which is less important, but what you were
required to face came up? Okay, so I have a good
one that I will talk about a specific. I consider
it a major, but a major trauma that hasn't happened.
And so I want to say on my sixth, my sixth ayahuasca
journey, I got presented. This is going to be
a good one. And I want to tell this one because
I know my dad will be listening to this. Oh,
hello, dad. Hi, dad. Good to see you. I know
he'll hear it. And it's so hard to let him know
in a genuine, like how, you know, it's hard.
And that whole night I got presented with him
standing in front of me. And it was the whole
the whole basis around it. Your dad died. He's
gone. The concept of him dying. And I fought
so hard on that floor crying. Just the emotions.
The emotions are attached to what you're going
through to where. The door opens. You can't help
it because it's going to come out. And all you
can do is fight. And it was unbelievable. I fought
so hard for him on that floor that night to a
point that he won't even understand how much
he means to me. It was almost like if you're
dangling your family off of the ledge and you're
holding that rope. you're holding that rope beyond
you. It's superhuman. It's superhuman. That fight
is superhuman. And that's what it does to you.
It puts you to that superhuman fight until you
are completely done. And it won't let you give
up. But it holds you in that spot until my dad
in the vision would be able to look down at me
and just give me, like I said, it's not. spoken
you just understand and i understood from him
i'm so fucking proud of you like you're holding
on like like you need to let go because everybody
else let go a long time ago right and i'm proud
of you like but let me let me explore what you're
tapping into like let me show you myself and
it was so sad it was so hard to let go and to
accept it, that it's going to happen, you know?
And did you think this was going to be imminent
when you bounced out of this journey? No, because
the crazy thing is at the end of that journey,
when I finally let him go and I finally gave
my final tear, he ended up turning into an American
Eagle, right? And he flew off into this realm.
And I was so happy for him. It was free. It was
free. He came from Cuba. What a beautiful ending.
It was beautiful. And when I opened my eyes on
that floor and I took my first breath again,
like, you know, your first conscious, you know,
you're there, you're back. Back in the realm.
It was almost, it was the, I wouldn't say it
was the hardest. It was. the most spiritual push
-up I've ever done in my life. Because when I
pushed myself off of that floor, it felt like
I was ripping myself out of his shadow, in a
sense. Because I've always worked under him.
But I feel like I ripped myself out of that shadow,
became my own person. And the moment I got all
the way up, I reconnected with him spiritually,
and then I became him. Wow. And since that experience,
right, and that one rocked me pretty hard. I
didn't have breakfast the next morning. My buddy
Mike. Did you feel lighter? I feel like I'm living
on bonus time with him. I feel like whatever
I grieved, I've grieved it. I've accepted the
fact it's going to happen one day. He's in his
70s. He's lived an amazing life. He's escaped
communism from Cuba. My grandparents were multimillionaires,
had massive factories. Castro took it all, and
they got on a flight like a vacation and came
to Miami. My dad grew up in the ghettos of Miami.
Created a business, which now me and my business
partner own. And now he's retired, traveling
with their RV. An amazing life. A hard one, but
amazing. So you have a fear of him dying. Is
this fear of him dying or death in general? Or
was this a tangential question to that? Yes,
there's a relationship between you and your father.
your father and you, but also it's the image,
it's the concept of a father and where you rack
and stack, not only against his measurement for
you, but your measurement for you too. Like there's
this resolution about, yes, you're every bit
the man, because you look at your dad as this
freaking amazing person that he is, and there's
this part of you that says, you know, do I stack
up? There's this part of, and when he says to
you, how amazing you are, that's actually, we
call that the blessing. When a parent gives the
child, and this should happen in real time, in
a perfect family, you know, Sarah's raising the
children. The children look up to Sarah and admire
her or admire her husband, right? They look up
to Tony and Sarah and they say, oh, you know,
these are my idols, right? And the children are
looking up and that you're their idols. The blessing
comes when you say to them, I'm everything that
you're going to be, but you're going to be so
much more, right? That's the parental blessing.
And I think it's something that we parents all
do. Like, I did that to my children. It's like,
they look at my biography, they're like, holy
crap, you know, I can't do that. And I'm like,
no, no, no, you'll do more. You'll do much more.
You have to set yourself free. And that's a parental
blessing. So what you experienced is legitimately
a parental blessing. And sometimes we don't always
get it from our actual parents. Like my physical,
biological parents were both broken in some ways.
So you have to get to this place where... If
your parents don't give that to you, you have
to get it to yourself or through a mentor. Like
I had other mentors, especially business mentors,
that told me how amazing I am, how powerful I
am, how beautiful I am, how I can do things.
Those things didn't come from my parents. But
they came from another source. In this case,
they may have come from your parents in some
degree, but at your soul level, you needed to
receive. You needed to be in a place where you
could receive that blessing. Did you feel inadequate
around your father? Was that something that you
had felt because of all he'd been through and
his achievements? Not necessarily. Because even
that experience to me, it... The way I came away
with that and the way I feel is the plant medicine
blessed me with future trauma. So not only am
I going to use this medicine to tackle my problems,
my traumas, it allowed me to tackle a future
trauma. I can't tell you how I feel about that
scenario. I can, but it's hard to explain because...
I have already grieved it. So when it actually
happens... So when it actually happens, I know
there will be a new type of trauma, but I am
fully prepared to stand there strong with my
wife and my child and both of my kids, my mom,
if she's, you know, whoever, and explain to them
that it's okay. You're right. That it's going
to be okay. So it's preparing you for a future
moment of helping heal someone else. It prepared
me to be able to... Because if you hadn't have
been prepared, you might have broken down in
that situation and been useless to everyone else
around you. So it's allowing you to... It allowed
me to get it out. Get it out so you can be of
use. And yep, and I fully... Is your father healthy
now? Yep, he's doing good. I mean, 70 is pretty
young. 70 is very young. I'm talking to you as
a 63 -year -old. 70 is very young. So that was
a shock then to go through that. It was a shock.
I'm very surprised that this is your story. I
mean, nothing really surprises me, but that's
very specific. And I guess it's what the universe
knew that you needed. I believe that ayahuasca...
The chemical is dimethyltryptamine, is what the
base chemical boils down to. And I've read some
stuff about it, and I truly believe that it's
alive. And it's completely different than every,
because small background with me, I don't do
drugs. I have never done, you know, smoked some
pot, you know, like every other kid. But when
I was living in California, I was around it all.
I could have very easily gotten anything I wanted.
Nothing interests me. That doesn't interest me
to do that. You're not looking to get a buzz,
are you? I'm not looking to get a buzz. You're
looking to get an experience. And what's funny
is my wife asked me, which is another one. I
don't get to openly tell my wife how much she
truly means to me. Because there's not a lot
of women that will let their husband go do this
ten times. You know? Go do... Bufo six times.
Did she think that you were a better version
of yourself after doing, when you returned home?
Was she able to be on that journey just seeing
how you were with, or did she think that it messed
you up? I know that she knows it didn't mess
me up. Right. I don't know if she has fully been
able to see the true change, because for me it
wasn't much of a physical change, so much as...
Interior. I'm free. My soul is free. And it's
the first time I've ever been free. And so, like,
she never really gets to hear it. It's an incredible
platform to continue on with your life on planet
Earth to feel free like that. I have. I'm a journeyer.
My sister knew it, you know, and I will be using
my plant medicine for as long as I'm allowed
to, as long as I can. And I sacrifice every day.
I bust my ass at work, jujitsu with the kids,
weekends trying to make sure they're happy. One
of my buddies will call and say, hey, you want
to go fishing for the day? No, I'm home. Because
when I go for my weekend, I want to make sure
my soul understands you deserve this. I feel
the release. My wife will understand. And go,
you know, be free, go do your thing. And I don't
ask for anything. What's the gap in between journeys?
What would that ideally be for you if you could?
Oh, if I could schedule my own healing ceremonies
for me where I'm at a different level with it
to where I wouldn't necessarily say I'm going
in for trauma release because I don't feel like
I... I feel like now I'm going to just, I'm,
I'm building my home and it's hard to like, I
believe that I don't believe hell exists. I think
it does, but not what people think it is because
I don't think that God's almighty angel would
get banished here. And then he would automatically
get his own realm. Right? He doesn't get shit.
You have to read my book. I'll give it to you.
You'll love her book. I don't think hell exists.
I think that... Okay, so even another deeper
one is I almost am at the point where I believe
Jesus sacrificed himself for our sins. That concept.
I'm not very religious. I grew up without a religious
base. For the most part, my sister was Christian,
Catholic. My parents were Christian. By the time
I was old enough to start going to church, my
parents were probably like, fuck this. These
other two, my older brother and sister are paying
in the ass trying to get them ready. And at that
time, church was... You present yourself very
nice. You dress up for church. Nowadays, you
just roll in. So I didn't really grow up in the
church. And since my last ayahuasca experience,
I have started reading the Bible. Take it with
a grain of salt. I feel like it's tarnished a
little bit through humans. But the concept of
Jesus died for our sins, it sticks with me. I
believe that Jesus didn't die to wipe away our
sins. I believe Jesus died fighting for our right
to be given a chance to cleanse ourselves of
our sins and go home. So I almost think that
by Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins, he
also created hell, which is a beautiful place.
I believe that almost... So hell was inadvertently
created by Jesus. By Jesus' sacrifice. And the
concept of hell, to me, is that I believe everybody's
going to hell. 99 % of the planet will go to
their own version of hell. It's not going to
be demon fires. No, it's going to be this trauma.
that trauma it's going to be this person that
you pissed off and you felt bad about it's going
to be that person you treated like an it's going
to be everything that is negatively impacted
you through the devil because you will not be
allowed to enter the most peaceful realms without
at first becoming at peace. So it's the concept
of if you come in your mom or your grandmother's
house with dirty shoes, you're taking that shit
off. If you've got dirt coming up to your knees
and on your shoulder, you're taking a shower
before you come in the house. And so everyone
has this fear of a hell, but they don't understand
that it's probably one of the most. But it's
also one of the most beautiful experiences. It's
not even in hell. It's an evolution. It's you
shedding all of your shit so that you can actually
become in a peaceful. I think the way you're
describing it is so unlike the hell that we've
been tortured with, isn't it? It's not even a
hell at that point. I don't know the term that
I would use, but I'm going to think about that.
But it's a distinctive place of just facing what
you've created. You're facing your own creation.
This is a fascinating conversation because just
two days ago, I sent you the first maybe 20 minutes
of an interview. and it was on a YouTube channel.
I'll go ahead and leave a link to it in the show
notes, but it's called The Essene Teachings on
Resurrection and Christ and the Tree of Life.
It dovetails perfectly with what he just said
because the idea of hell is based on the polarity
or the divergence of concepts, and the teachings
of the Christ would be one of oneness. Bringing
those diverging concepts into a conflict resolution,
so if you have trauma, healing the trauma, if
you have whatever your hell is, bringing that
to some sort of level of understanding, the net
effect of that is that you become wiser, smarter,
more powerful, so you can get to your personal
next level. The whole idea of an ascension is
not something like where you go to this level
of heaven where the clouds are brighter and shinier.
It's a level of ascension where you come to an
inner knowing of your personal self. It's the
whole thing. The kingdom of God is within you.
And so the Essenes, like Jesus, the Nazarene,
the Nazarenes, Nazarene, Nazareth, it's a compound
word where the Essenes were one of three major
sects. There was the Sadducees, the Pharisees,
and the Essenes. The Sadducees and Pharisees,
they were power ego structure. And the Essenes
were very soulful. And so the messages that you're
talking about and the relationship with the Earth
Mother and the angels of the Earth, those are
very Essenic in terms of nature. So I sent you
the video about the Essenes. I've been talking
about the Essenes, the gospel of peace for a
year now. But now it's coming mainstream. I saw
that video. I'm like, here are these people finally
talking about the Essenes and about... Jesus,
the Christ, which simply means the anointed.
The anointed is simply the anointing that you
get from these experiences in this earth space.
Yes, I think we're all anointed. We're all anointed.
And like you perfectly said, Mike, your hell
is very different than my hell. And it's very
different from her hell, right? Some of us, but
the hell is there to serve us. It's like if I
go to the weight room and I look at... A 200
-pound weight set, I'm like, oh, that's going
to be hell. But you know that that's here to
serve me. It's there to make me stronger and
make me more powerful. And that's the way I look
at the hell. It's not a punishment. It's something
that you accept. You're like, okay, I'm going
to have to bottom. You have to go through hell
to get to heaven, literally. That's part of being
a creator. You have to face what it is that you've
created. And you have to accept that, still love
yourself, still go through it. And then in karma,
do you believe if reincarnation exists, we're
going to experience the karma of being an asshole?
And I didn't want to take us off track, but I
think it's so relevant because what you're speaking
of dovetails almost perfectly with the teachings
that were hidden from us in approximately 350
AD. A lot of the teachings that you're talking
about, these relationships with the herbs, the
things from the garden, these experiences, those
were very commonplace in the first century, first
one, two, three centuries of Christians. These
journeys, this discovery of self, the inner knowing,
all of these things were very common to the mystics,
the mystical Christians, the first century Christians.
It's only in the later, I call them neo -Christians,
where it's all scriptural based. It's like, well,
this book, this, you know, basically there's
two concepts. One is that the new Bible, as we
know it, is not really the Jesus Bible. It's
the Paul. It's Paul's interpretation of what
happened to Jesus. Paul never even met Jesus.
He never even met him. It's all hearsay. So now
they're studying a Bible that basically is built
on hearsay. But if you go back to the Essene
Gospels and the Dead Sea Scrolls and you look
at some of the ancient scriptures, they dovetail
almost perfectly with what Mike's describing.
Like you could put them next to each other and
they'd read just almost parable. Almost perfectly
parallel. I'm sorry, Mike, go ahead. I also believe
that this is heaven. That I don't, I don't, I
can't, I don't understand how we would come here
and then you die and go to heaven. You go home.
Like, so heaven is, this is heaven. The physicalness,
the realm that he, so it's hard to explain exactly,
exactly how I process this, but I feel like consciousness
is God. Yes. Right? That's God. But you've never
heard of it. Any of our podcasts. No, not too
much. The soul is you. You're the specter of
God. You're the soul. So like the way that, that
I view it is if you're God and you're, you're
just God, I don't really go what happened before
or anything. That's the beginning. You're the
source. You're the source. The source is, I feel
like God is creating his home. And he is creating
all these masterpiece realms for us to enjoy.
Right. But in order, the many mansions are all
over this place. But then I feel like when God
created, oh, let's say Adam and Eve. This is
a perfect one. Adam and Eve. When Adam and Eve
came, I believe that they were not the first
people on earth. I believe they were the first
people that had souls. And because even when
Adam and Eve, I'm not super familiar with all
that, just kind of recently started digging into
stuff. Enoch is my favorite, by the way. But
yeah, Enoch comes in the Bible twice and they
say, well, Enoch comes in the current, the Roman
Bible. I'm just going to call it the Roman Bible.
But Enoch was the central concept. Yeah, I believe
that. I love Enoch. Adam and Eve had their kids.
I think it was Cain and Abel. And then one killed
the other one. I think Cain killed Abel. And
then at a certain point in the Bible, I remember
reading that it said that Cain was going to walk
the earth as punishment. And that Cain was saying
something to God along the lines of, I don't
want all these people to kill me. And God told
him, they're not going to kill you because I'm
going to tell them not to. And you got to just
roam. So that means there were other people on
this planet. There was others besides Cain and
Abel and Adam and Eve. Because I think that when
God created this heaven, it's almost like an
ant farm. He created this realm that's his precious
realm. And he put plants, he put animals, he
put all these things in it. And then he would
put humanized beings in this realm with his conscious
so that these conscious, no souls yet. The consciousness
of the people that were here were basically the
way God could view his creation. His eyes to
his world to see what he's built. He sent receptors.
Yes. And then I think when he sent Adam and Eve,
it was the first time he sent a pair of people
with a soul. And the soul is basically the concept
of when you die, you will eventually become God.
But you're still you. So there's still you inside
of God. So now God has a next door neighbor.
He actually has someone that has a different.
you know perspective a different you know adam
has different um experiences than eve you know
everyone that has souls will have a different
unique aspect to them if you're a comedian if
you're all these different life forces are now
going to when they die they will become god But
then at the same time, you are still you. You
remain individual. You will remain your uniqueness.
I always had that about Nirvana. I didn't want,
I mean, to be absorbed into the supreme spirit
after death. I didn't like the idea. I mean,
I'm okay with it, but I still want to be Sarah
Thierry. I still want that and whoever I've been
prior to that. And that's what I thought was
a more reasonable way of continuing with our
future. I believe that. And I believe that. He
wouldn't give us individuality and then require
that we're stripped from it. Exactly. That would
be a real jerk thing to do. You are still going
to be you. And then you will also be God and
live in these realms. But I think that the idea
of the hell was, even with Adam and Eve, Satan
got sent here. He's here. He has no realm. He's
got nothing. Now, did God create Satan? And is
he fighting Satan for supremacy? In the biblical
side, that's where I've... No, I'm not. But outside
of that... Just in your opinion. It's hard. I've
never really gone too far down... Because Tia
Jolie and I have talked about light and dark,
and dark exists because light exists. It's not
battling for supremacy. The idea is we as men
and women, we try to explain things around us
based on things we understand. And so we have
to give God the infinite God. an image that's
a man, and Satan, an image that's something that's
like a man but kind of nasty looking, right?
We have to create things that make sense to us
because we can't make sense of the things that
we can't comprehend, right? So we make God fit
into our world because that's our frame of reference.
But the question is, did God create the devil
or did the devil... And the answer is this. The
answer has to be yes. The answer has to be yes.
Because if you're going to say that there's an
almighty, infinite creator that was all -knowing,
all -powerful, that this almighty God didn't
accidentally lose a third of the legion of angels
that's led by this master demon, that doesn't
accidentally happen if you're the almighty creator.
You would have known. So you have to conclude
that that happened with intention, with purpose.
to serve you and to serve us. So to me, I'm not
afraid of the devil. I'm like, and we'll talk
about this next because I want to kind of move.
We've talked about the spiritual journey and
some of the outcomes, which is freaking awesome.
But I want to kind of move forward and say, what
does this mean to the average normal person?
What do we look like in the future? But the idea
of Adam and Eve's... being separated. They were
one and they were separated, but then they come
back together. And same thing with good and evil.
Good and evil didn't exist. Then good and evil
were created to create a polarity. for us to
learn, and then their polarity is going to disappear
again. So that'll be a unification. So everything
is going to come back to a unification. So basically
there's nothing to be scared of. No, it's a process.
All is part of creation itself. It's like me
looking at it. Which is a really novel idea because
it allows you to feel secure in this realm. Oh,
yeah, you feel comfortable. The thing with Christianity
that I dislike the most is that we're told that
we're a perversion of what God originally intended,
and we're not. We're beautiful. We're beautiful,
divine, sovereign souls. That's the part that
I was really upset about in my book. And I love
what you're saying, because like Mike was saying,
you know, each of us is kind of a god within
the empire of gods. We're our own gods. And you
get to be Sarah. I get to be Tia Jolie. You know,
Mike gets to be Mike. And I'm not surrendering
my identity to you. But I'm also not making my
identity control you or be controlled by you.
I'm looking at you as another divine sovereign.
I'm looking at Mike as a divine sovereign. He's
on his journey. But I'm looking at a divine fractal
that is another one of me. And you're another
one of me. And we can look to each other with
kindness and respect and understand that we're...
And not thinking there's anything wrong with
each other. There's nothing wrong with any of
us. We're on our own journeys. And we have to
honor his journey and help him on his journey.
Even the way that... Even the people that are
in bad spots, that are traumatized, when God
banished Satan to heaven, to earth, to live,
he's stuck here. We're not. So he's forever here.
He's got no chance of going back home. So I truly
believe that Satan's sole purpose is to traumatize
people. And God is okay with this? I think that
God, I think at first I feel like Satan started
traumatizing people and God was saying, all right,
the traumatized souls are not allowed to come
to me, right? You just restart, right? You get
to restart your life, maybe reincarnation concept
at that point. But then I feel like when Jesus
sacrificed himself for all of our sins, he created
the purgatory realm where we're allowed to go
through our own hell. and become cleansed. And
is this the purgatory realm, Earth? No, I think
Earth is... A lot of people would say that. I
think Earth is the heavens. So... Go ahead. You're
fine. Yeah, I think Earth is the heavens because
if you take out all the buildings, politics,
all the noise, you have rainbows, waterfalls.
It's a beautiful planet. It's beautiful. And
it's physical. And... you're able to i think
we were supposed to come down here to enjoy god's
creation his heaven so that we can build our
uniqueness in his realm so that when we go back
to become source we're still us. We still have
our experiences based off of his home. But I
feel like the devil is living here and he's just
kind of tagging people. So do you feel that the
devil shouldn't be here, that God doesn't want
him here, that God is somehow putting up with
his presence? No, I think the devil is secretly...
But then that means God's not in control of what
he created then. No, I think that the devil thinks
he's winning. But when you go through the process
is when the devil realized he really lost. Because
when people are able to take their trauma head
on and face it, you get put in a position to
where there's no other feeling that you can feel.
Then I am so fucking proud of myself because
I did it. I got through it. I had friends that
passed away early and traumatized. I was young.
And I fought that fight on. I can openly talk
about my friends. There's no more pain. It's
almost that tension you get in your chest when
you think of that trauma. It opens it. And I
am so much happier. To have being able to go
through that experience that I keep doing it.
And it's, I look at the cleansing phase of like,
I'm not saying that when I die, I'm going to
heaven or going to, to a peaceful realm. I've
got more baggage that I may have to clean out
things that I don't even know. But that process
that everyone calls hell, it's not, it's, it's
just a cleansing. It's letting you truly, it
makes you, it's almost like the devil thought
he was winning because he's going to traumatize
people so that they don't make it to these realms.
But they used that trauma to be victorious, didn't
they? But then when you, when God realized when
these, when we go through our traumas and our
life and we gain our experiences, once you cleanse
yourself of that trauma, only then can you become
your true form. So you couldn't be your true
form without trauma? I don't think so. Not in
the next. So I want to interject a question here.
There's layers of questions because we're working
on these archetypes that I think are very Western,
very modern, very Roman. And it really diverges
from the essence of what I will call mystical
Christianity, the ancient Christianity. Because
the idea of animal sacrifice, as an example,
is not central to the... original doctrine of
Christians that's not central to what the Essenes
taught or what they believed. And what's happened
is the Romans and there's some Jewish sects,
the Sadducees and Pharisees, as an example, they
believed in flesh sacrifice. So the idea, the
archetype of having a flesh sacrifice is pervasive
in today's religion called Christianity. So the
idea, so you have to challenge the question,
What is a sacrificial lamb? What's the purpose
of it? If you have a divine father that's going
to create a son and the sole purpose of the son
is to be sacrificed, the concept of sacrificing
anything, flesh and blood for any reason, is
not an original Christian doctrine. So where
did that come from and what does it mean? You
can make that argument, but then take it a step
further and say, okay, let's just pretend that
that was a thing. where Jesus was sacrificed
for our sins, so I can go and be a dirtbag, but
as long as I believe in him, I'm going to be
saved. But let's just pretend that that's the
case. So now there's this sacrificial lamb called
Jesus. To whom did the almighty creator, the
infinite powerful one, to whom did the infinite
creator feel like he needed to make this sacrifice?
Yeah. To whom was that sacrifice being offered?
If he's the almighty, perfect, infinite God,
why would you even need to make a sacrifice to
atone for sins? That doesn't even make sense
to me, nor did it make sense to the first century
Christians. The divergence in the gospel of Mary
Magdalene, which again is censored. The Romans
censored it. Why? Because Mary Magdalene was
not a prostitute or hooker. She was a beautiful
divine soul. Peter was jealous because Mary Magdalene
was the favorite disciple. But Da Vinci wouldn't
even put her... And her level of intuition was
probably higher than... She was off the chart.
She was like off the chart for second only to
Judas, right? In terms of who she was as a soul.
So now we have the censorship of Mary Magdalene's
message. What was her message? Her key message
was there is no sin. Sin does not exist. I don't
believe in the concept of sin. Sin is a divergence
from that which is good. Well, it's free will.
You can choose it. It's a divergence from that
which is good. It's not a judgment. I don't need
to be atoned for my sins because sin doesn't
exist. The only reason you create... So the Romans
took away the idea of sin, or they introduced
the idea of sin as a judgment. So you have to
go through some process or some mechanism of
blood sacrifice. So I'm just throwing that out
there. Y 'all do your own research. Thank you
for listening. Do your own research. I think
we really need to challenge these archetypes,
these concepts. I mean, do you believe in the
concept of sin? Are we doing anything wrong on
this planet? Even the worst murderer that's on
this planet, the worst serial killer, he was
given, in my opinion, free will to make a choice
in the forces of light and dark. He will have
to experience all the pain that he causes. And
that's the point of reincarnation and to learn
as well. And eventually he will be cleansed and
become a pure soul, however far that is. down
the line but i don't believe that god will sin
but i believe that he permits it yes i think
that i think sin is more of a humanized word
for it where it's if you commit sin you did something
illegal you know would you believe we're sinners
yes and i believe so that's that's that's where
you and i would disagree i don't believe in anyone
i wouldn't say that it's i wouldn't say that
i consider it a sin just solely because The way
I look at it is you have the freedom to do whatever
you want. If you want to go out and do some horrible
things, you can. All that I think is going to
happen to you as far as the sin concept is you're
going to spend a lot longer in your hell than
what people realize. Because I almost look at
it as levels where you have a peaceful level.
You're at peace. So you're at baseline. As life
and pains and traumas and small little things
start building up, you slowly decrease your spirituality
level. So say if something had happened to me
before ayahuasca, say I started off at negative
five. I had five levels of trauma before my soul
can first feel peace. Once you get into a higher
consciousness realm, the fight of the pure shock
and awe of beautifulness is equally as hard as
a hell fight. So I've seen some mystical, biblical
things that were equally as hard for me to process.
As the light was hard to process and the dark
was. So I believe that if you are a very sinful
person, you may start off at negative 100 and
you may not get to see your peace for an eternity
because you're going to be fighting these traumas
in a timeless place. So with ayahuasca, you're
in for eight hours, but. When I come out of those
journeys, I know I was not gone for three days.
But you get your consciousness, in a sense. You
get your perspective that you're back here. When
you're in this journey, because in this reality,
I'm the participant and I'm the watcher. So I
have the watcher consciousness and I'm the participant.
Do you still have watcher? when you're on this
journey or are you really absorbed in identification
with it where you're not watching? That's a really
good question. That's a good question. Are you
talking about self -awareness? Yes. Okay, so
yes, when with ayahuasca, for me... You're aware,
I'm Mike, I'm in this and I'm seeing this giant
orb but I'm still here watching. To an extent,
yes. I would say that when I get it, if I went
to a certain realm that was very... you know
high up there where it's very shocking all very
in the light in the light like you're you're
feeling the power of of everything that it's
very hard to to snap into even asking a question
right because you're just absorbing it absorbing
absorbing it to the point that that eventually
as you work with this medicine and the further
you get with it then eventually you might say
like Thank you. And then you're there. Your conscious
is with you. But at the same time, I know what
I look like on that ground. I know all the emotions.
I'm crying out and the snot coming out of my
nose. I know the dirt's in my mouth. I know I
don't have to pee. Put it that way. And it comes
in waves because you're digesting it. So the
wave will come in and you'll kind of be like,
oh, I'm just going to. rest my eyes and then
boom you're in and you're going through this
realm and you're doing things and you might get
off your chair and go on the floor and stuff
like that And at any moment, I can raise my hand
and one of the volunteers would come by and see
what I needed. Whether it's I need to go to the
bathroom, they'll help me. Kind of just make
sure you don't fall, you know? Walk you over
there. Walk you over there, yeah. So you're two
realities, aren't you? Simultaneously. Simultaneously.
I've been in a position with one. It's almost
like being in a gym. Like if you need a spotter,
like you're lifting, lifting, lifting. And it's
like, okay, I need a spotter on this one. They
help you, but then they back away and then you're
back into it. And it's almost like a. If it gets
too intense, a lot of people say they just kind
of open their eyes. And then you're back, you
can see the campfire. Well, that's good. You
can ground yourself. I've always wondered that.
Or are you just transported and there's no way
out until eight hours later? But you're saying
that you're coming in and out. But when you're
in, you're in. You're in. You're in. So you've
seen beautiful light realms, which are difficult
to take because it's so awe -inspiring. And then
have you seen hellish realms, which are equally
difficult to take because it's so grisly? I have
seen the most magnificent, beautiful realms.
Avatar plans. Yes, huge avatar plans. I've been
to pyramids. I've been through... Inside of a
mother's womb delivering a baby. Oh, my goodness.
Oh, some good stuff. I got to watch my daughter
was maybe five. And it's almost like you're in
these pockets of world and it slowly moves through
all kinds of places as the music's going. So
you may be going through one thing and then I
call them the minors. So like minor things. That
just means so much. And one of them was, my daughter
was five, and I went to this one place that she
was standing on top of this avatar red flower,
huge flower thing. And was it alive, this flower?
Everything's alive. Everything has energy. It's
alive. And I've been absorbed by these plants.
I've been ripped apart. Are they caring? So me
in particular, and everyone has different experiences,
there are these avatar massive plants. My sister's
going to laugh because she knows it. I go to
Disney with my wife. Has she seen them too? She
had a completely different thing. She didn't
get as much visuals as what I get, which I think
is an ego thing. Oh. Well, I mean, you're a graphic
artist. There's this bias there. We'll jump into
ego in a second. All right. Because I got a different
idea with ego. But for me, these avatar plants
have always started my journey. That's how I
knew the medicine's kicking in. And are they
welcoming? For the first six, seven, the first
seven journeys I've had, they scared the shit
out of me. They weren't, they weren't harming
me. No. They were fucking with me. Ah. Right.
So it was almost. It's a mischief. It's a mischievous.
And it would just kind of play with, like, it
was weird. I became the plants. I've had a scenario
where the plant would, I was in the form of like
this ooze and the plant would just pull me and
I would feel stretched. But as you get stretched,
everything about you breaks off, right? And then
it would just let go and I would pop and come
back, right? And you would just be like, what
the fuck? You know, what the fuck was that? And
then it would do it again. But it would go a
little bit further, right? And then it would
pop and it would hit you again. And was its motive
to test you even if it knew the reasons and you
didn't? Or it was just fucking with you? No,
because it taught me something small. Oh, okay.
So something, knowledge came from it. Yes, because
every time it pulled me, Every single thing about
me would rip off easily. But then once it pulled
me to an extent, the last little droplet that
was me was my wife, my daughter, and my son.
It was stripping away the peripheral stuff and
leaving the core essence. And it pulled me to
my core. And then I remember it letting me go.
And it said, Let's see what you really are. Let's
see how far we can pull you. And it was sad,
but beautifully sad. It pulled me to the point
where it was my wife, my son. My son was maybe
one. We don't have a huge bond. We do. He's obviously
my son, but we've only been around for a year.
You know, he's starting to get his personality
now. And so then it just pulled and I was crying.
And I remember just one, just boom, my wife left.
Right. And it was just my son and my daughter.
Then it just kept pulling me and pulling me.
And then, boom, my son left and it was my daughter.
She's my everything. Right. I already knew that.
But to feel that is different scenario. And then
it let go and you're back. And then it would
just be this concept in your head of the medicine
telling you, well, now, you know, let's keep
going. You know, not nothing major, but just
at least, you know, you know, that my family
is my core unit. So, Mike, you're talking a lot
of reference from you and your progeny. Have
you had experiences where you actually were connected
to your ancestors? Oh, yes. Good question. My
grandmother is there every journey. And when
you recognize her, does she look like the grandmother
you knew? Or do you see her at her youthful state?
Multiple different. How about her grandmothers
or her grandmothers? Have you had any indication
that you're in connection with people from generations?
millennia prior to you or is it just the people
that you knew i believe that i believe that when
we die and we we become at peace and we go back
home you will have your own core people that
you would want to look over i agree with that
actually right yeah so and i believe that you
can call upon people And then they can hear your
call and they get the choice, you know. Actually,
I do that all the time. Yes. I mean, in my lucidity,
I don't do, I've never done drugs, never done
marijuana. I've never even smoked a cigarette.
All right. So I'm coming to a place of strictly
self, pure self. But those states that you speak
of are what I call lucid states. And you can
get into this. Some pretty, pretty aggressive,
colorful places with these states of lucidity.
Have you been off planet to any other worlds
or other species? Have you seen the big praying
mantis that a lot of people see? Snake. Anaconda.
Right. Very... Nothing negative. But nothing
alien that we would consider alien. So I have
seen... I would say... So I've done... I've done
my 10 ayahuasca ceremonies and then I've also
done some bufo ceremonies, which is in the same
chemical compound. It's still DMT, but it's from
a specific toad. Okay. And they call it the God
molecule. And then they also have free base DMT,
which is a smokable version of DMT. And I believe
that. They all have their own different healings
and needs. I would say that I didn't get too
much of... Ayahuasca is the teacher. She's the
teaching medicine. And teaching you about yourself.
It teaches you how to free your soul. How to
free. How to freely navigate with a peaceful
soul. I've never... Since Ayahuasca, I've always
said that I have... two different versions. There's
multiple versions of me in this world. I'm a
father, a husband, you know, a brother, I'm a
business owner. So every time I'm, I'm switching
my hat. Yeah. You switch hats all the time. But
then through ayahuasca, I've been able to really
figure out my spiritual hat, which that's why
I was telling you that this, this is almost a
form of therapy for me because you don't meet
a lot of people that won't have even really done
this or to be that interested and yes it's too
strange for them and then even the communities
that i'm in when we all go to do ceremony everyone's
on their own journey so no one really wants to
hear your journey because they're doing their
own journey so you're just journeying with these
people they're all my brothers my sisters and
when that church in orlando and it's so powerful
to me because that church in orlando I have never
volunteered for much. My time is my money. It's
either my time is my house, my family. I've never
gotten the need to volunteer at a church. But
when I drank ayahuasca and I got through my first
three ceremonies and I figured out I can volunteer
and be there, I made sure I was there. And it
was to the point where I volunteered overnight.
So it was Friday around 7 o 'clock. I would tell
my daughter, hey, daddy's got to go help some
people. I'll see you. I'd tell my wife, hey,
I'll be back. And I would shoot over to the church.
I would get there at 8 o 'clock. I would pound
coffee. And I would stay up until 5 a .m. And
then I would get in my car around 7 and drive
home and take my family to church. It was brutal.
I was exhausted. And I did that for a year. What
compelled you to do that? Because it's pure healing.
You can feel it. It's almost like... You're in
an atmosphere of healing. People are truly getting
healed. And when you can see it and it's happened
to you... So you're riding off this freedom that
they're experiencing, the aura around it is just
releasing. You can feel the energy of this medicine
when you're there. But almost just it's more
of this soul... Just the concept of I'm helping.
I'm truly helping. Sarah, do you remember some
time ago I talked to you about that experience
Robin and I had with the homeless people and
the lady was eating from the trash can. That
was so emotionally moving for me that I doubled,
I redoubled my commitment to helping homeless
people and feeding people that didn't have because
I was so emotionally moved. by that experience
that I, I wanted, I actually wanted to quit my
job and do everything to help these people to,
to be present, to help those people because there
was so much value to me as a soul helping them
get to their next level. So, I mean, I get what
you're saying totally. So if, if I didn't have
my family and if I didn't have my business, I
would be, I would be solely trying to, mold my
life around this medicine, but I have my life.
I have my life. First of all, this has been amazing.
I'm so grateful, Mike, for you to come out and
share this. Hopefully, it's been therapeutic
to you. We talked about spirituality. We touched
upon religion. We talked about the experiences.
Looking forward, as a clinician, I'm very interested
in having personally conquered PTSD, but also
being exposed to other people that are first
responders, maybe people that have been subjected
to satanic racial abuse, childhood trauma, any
number of traumas, even veterans like myself
that have nightmares and things. We hear these
anecdotes, and now it's coming more and more
mainstream about people being able to use some
of these psychotropics or these compounds that
have neurological implications, not only to have
an experience that's now, or this weekend, or
these few days, but we're seeing evidence that
it actually rewires. Or resets. Maybe not rewires,
but certainly resets the brain. So my question
is twofold. One is... That's interesting. Resetting.
It's a reset. Exactly what it is. So that's at
least the research I've read. And it's not just
ayahuasca. It's any of the... It's, you know,
bufo. It's any of the psychedelics. Like, I'm
really big on ibogaine. We talked about ibogaine.
Texas is putting legislation through for ibogaine.
I want to lead the charge for Ibogaine here in
Florida. But all of these basically have a similar
idea that, you know, we've built these neurological
pathways that are based on certain belief systems.
And if those belief systems, if you keep thinking
in those belief systems, you're burning those
circuits in. Strongholds the Bible would call
those. Yeah, it's a mental stronghold. keeps
you tracking in this circuitry. Horrible, yeah.
But, you know, what if you could just say, okay,
yeah, this computer, I'm just going to reboot
this computer and let it go to its BIOS, its
basic BIOS, and say, okay, look, this thing was
caught in a loop. Let's shut it down. Let's start
it back up. And let's introduce... BIOS 1 .0
or 1 .1 or 1 .2. It's like a system defrag. Yeah,
well, you do a defrag until it's to the point
where I can't defrag it. Now you need to reset
it. So my question is, do you believe that, you
answered it a little bit already, but do you
believe that there's some degree of system reset?
And the second thing is, based on your different
communities and what you know so far about these
journeys or these experiences or the benefits
of these experiences, Looking forward, what do
you hope will happen in the world around us as
these discussions of nootropics and these different
plant -based therapies become more and more mainstream?
What do you hope will happen? So as far as like
the, you're talking about like the deep. So yeah,
two things, reset and then looking forward. Okay,
so the reset, that's what we're going. The reset,
100%. 100%. My sister was on multiple different
medications for a decade. Medications for neurological
issues like depression? Yeah, depression, stuff
like that. And she's three years free. And she
also had motion sickness. And now she takes roller
coasters at Disney all day. So all of my pilot
friends, yeah. My future pilot friends. It reset
her. Yeah. Same way that I feel like it reset
me because... So my one of my closest friends
passed away 10 days before my 18th birthday.
Right. So and I was about to turn I was about
to turn 18. He was probably 21 ish at the time.
And, you know, big plans. We're going to go to
Miami. We're going to have fun. This and that.
And then all of a sudden, boom. Right. So for
20 something years, you know, whatever the span
from 18 to about 35. That span of my life was
every time my birthday came, the devil just kind
of just tightened himself on me. And so when
I went through my experience of that trauma,
it rewired me to a point that I've, I just recently
asked my mom and my sister, what was I like?
I can't physically, I can't fully remember the
pain. Of what I, why was I even so damn mad?
Like what doubt you're almost. Yeah. Like, like
I can't, I can't reconnect to that anymore. Interesting.
And so it kind of opened up my, my pathways to
let it all re rewire to where, yes, it happened,
but there's no more emotional pain to that. Yeah.
And so as we look forward, you're, it seems you'd
be pretty hopeful because I know from. From my
experience, from what I understand from what's
going on in Texas with the Ibogaine, we have
to find this middle ground. So yes, there's the
religious ceremonial stuff that's probably all
the way on this edge. And then there's the religious
zealots that are going to say, oh, that's the
devil in the... No, no, it's not. There's some
therapy. We can agree that there's some therapeutic
benefits. The question is, how do we get there
in a place like Texas is talking about? micro
-dosing ibogaine in a clinical setting. Yes,
it's not the same as having the full -blown religious
experience and the falling down on the ground
and vomiting your guts and all that. Maybe it
is, but it's more of a stepping stone, I think,
for the general public to introduce this into
the public psyche. to kind of bias the archetype
away from... Prepare us. To prepare. It's like
a stepping stone. So my question would be, you
know, looking forward, how do you see our path
forward? Have you come across other people doing
the journey, as you say, there was between 30
and 70 each time you did it, that walked away
and had a really shitty experience that would
never want to do it again and would never recommend
it? Or has everyone kind of got to where you
are? I think everybody... Okay, so when I volunteered,
I've seen... personally around close to probably
500 people you know three to five hundred people
through the times i volunteered i have not met
one person that has left there unsatisfied and
if you were to look up the company on google
and you look at their reviews it's almost about
5600 five -star reviews holy shit and a lot of
five -star reviews so i have met there was this
one lady i was drinking with her I was actually
drinking with this lady. She was sitting next
to me. She was real nervous. And, you know, of
course, you know, and it's your first time for
her. It was her first time. It was maybe my fourth
time. And I remember telling her like, hey, whatever
happens tonight, because I'm the type of person
where if something intrigues me, I'm going to
do it twice. One, because you don't know what
you're getting into. And two. Because now you
can feel it out whether this is your thing. And
so I kept telling her, do tomorrow's ceremony.
Whatever happens, do tomorrow's ceremony. Saw
her the next morning. And yes, she was like that.
That was the hardest thing I've ever done in
my life. That was the wildest shit I've ever
had. I don't like this, this and that and that.
And I was like, hey, I was like, I fully agree.
Because a lot of people will go through that
and then they'll leave. But then they don't understand
truly what happened to them until about a month
later. When all of a sudden, they don't have
an urge to drink alcohol. Their nervous system
has had time to adjust to it. And then they understand
what it really... Like for me, the most saddest,
hardest, traumatic experiences that I've went
through, they're the best. They are the... best
high in hindsight in hindsight yes yeah but when
i do go through and i hit a major traumatic spot
oh it changes your life it frees you from that
and so the the girl was rocked she was she was
she's like i don't think i even want to do this
and i kept telling her i was like just just do
tomorrow's you know just try tomorrow's she did
the next night and then what happens is the medicine's
alive so it knows How much you're going to drink
and how often you're going to drink. And I've
studied this. I've seen podcasts with people
that have been drinking for 25 years. So they're
further than me. And that's what they were saying.
And it makes so much sense because my sister
drank one cup that weekend and she got everything
she needed. And she came out that ceremony saying,
I don't need to drink it again. I got it. I'm
completely content. She drank one cup and. And
me, my first cup was brutal, was really brutal.
And I always told myself, I'm going to do it
twice. I'm always going to do it twice. So the
medicine knew I will be back. And I went the
next night. So did the girl that was sitting
next to me. And after her second ceremony, she
came back to me smiling, happy. It was the most
beautiful thing she'd ever seen. You were right
on the nail about that then. Because the medicine
knew that she was going to drink the second cup
before I even told her. So I didn't really need
to do my part. But the medicine knew she will.
And if she didn't do the second cup, I believe
that her first ceremony would have been completely
different. Because I've gone to ceremonies where
it's three nights. And I will have a traumatic
experience. And then the following two ceremonies
will be blissful. To make sense of the trauma.
Not even to make sense. It's almost like your
body has surrendered to a point that you no longer
have a fight in you. It's almost like a celebration
type thing. And it lets you explore. You're given
that piece to explore. Even though I had more
baggage, it was like, let's work through this
one and then let's explore because it knew I
was going to be back next year to tackle my next
one. Right. And so the next year I went, I had
another big one and then I got to explore. So
the first one is a shitty one that gives you
a horrible experience, but that very experience
is what's going to allow you a better experience.
It frees your soul. To let you keep going. In
my experience. How many people declined the second
one after having this awful first trip? Not a
lot because I don't think that, because I truly
believe that it's a living organism. So I think
it knows it before. So like my sister, her experience
was, and she'll come on and talk to you guys,
but her experience was a hard experience, but
it wasn't hard enough. She got everything she
needed. And she understood that. So she sat with
the medicine, drank it, and the medicine knew
she's not going to be back. We got eight hours.
Let's do this because we're going to get through
your depression, this one and that one, and we're
going to work through a couple scenarios, and
I'm going to leave you in the most beautiful
spot. It always leaves you in a beautiful spot.
Your journey won't end bad. Okay. Yes, I fought
my dad. So by the time you come back eight hours
later, you're in some type of relief and happiness.
Something magical will happen at the end that
will fill you with love. Okay, that's good. Yes.
That's good to know. Yes, it's the moment of
surrender. Once you truly surrender to what's
happening, it blesses you. And it will make sure
you surrender in time. And it's beautifully panned
out. where I've been through battles for six
hours and on that seventh hour, it's just boom,
a rose. That's such a relief to know, actually.
No. Because you wouldn't want to end it on a
crappy note, would you? That'd be terrifying.
And wait another year. And wait another year,
exactly. So let me ask you, so looking forward,
if it was a blank slate and the world were going
to unfold and you could bestow this blessing
upon... the future world, what would you like
to see happen in terms of its deployment to the
mainstream? I think there should be camps all
around the U .S. I think that it should be open
to the general. There is no difference from.
It's like the my body, my choice kind of concept.
I should be as a 38 year old. I should be able
to do what I want to do. You should be able to
experiment with your own consciousness. What
would be the youngest? What would be the youngest
you would suggest? Oh, see, that's where it gets
into like the government. I'm saying forget the
government. You're a father of two children.
What would be the, like if there were no outside
interferences? Nothing. So over by the Amazon,
I've heard stuff where kids drink it at all ages,
where they have young kids that will go drink
this. And what are your thoughts about that?
If the medicine's alive, it's going to know how
to handle that child. It's going to know how
to handle that child. Because that medicine sounds
like it's in charge. Well, I mean, that presupposes
it's alive and that it's got its own consciousness,
which we can make an argument that all of these
plants have some level of consciousness. See,
I believe air is consciousness. Like, what is
air? It's ether. It's ether. It's consciousness.
When you deprive yourself from air... Your heart
still continues. Your brain still functions.
The only thing you lose is your consciousness.
The ether, interestingly, when you look at the
ancient, not even ancient, like 150 years ago,
the table of the elements contained an element
called ether, and it's not on the modern table
of elements. So they literally pulled ether out
of the psyche of the world. So do you think...
If this became mainstream, this could lead us
towards creating heaven on earth. I mean, could
this be so transformative that all the bullshit
a lot of people feel could be left behind at
a new age? I mean, could this be that big of
a deal? I think it would be a revolution as far
as how this medicine can help you. And I think
that it could be... I think that people should
have the right to do it any way they want. Whether
it's full -blown like what I do, give me a full
cup, I'm ready to ride, or if it's micro -dosing.
I'd micro -dose with it first, I think. Because
even when you first go to drink, they'll give
you a small little bit. And how quickly are you
going to feel something different? With the small
starter, you may not enter fully. The gateway.
It's almost to where micro -doses may not. be
able to open that door, right? It's almost like
you need to open it. And when they give you that
starter cup, which I've only had my first ceremonies,
kind of just make sure how you deal with it a
little bit, you know, you kind of just feel a
little woozy and nice. And then you go back and
you're like, all right, let me get half cup.
And then you're blasted off. You're in. So I
feel like it would be hard to microdose this
for the public. But I do think that if it becomes
mainstream, I can guarantee you God's going to
win. Hands down, this will be it. I believe everybody
should drink this. So I'm going to say one more
thing. I'm getting this overwhelming feeling
that, you know, the more you discover about the
Essenes and the ancient texts and the ancient
mystical Bible and the way that they live their
lives. It's going to make some connections with
you that you've never even expected. You never
saw coming because the Western world talks about
this God that's got angels, right? So the gospel
of peace, if you read that, it talks about the
heavenly father with the angels. There's seven
angels. But the gospel of peace also explains
that there's the earthly mother with the seven
angels and how we interact. During the daytime,
we interact with the mother and then the angels,
the angel of power, right? So it's a one -to
-one interaction during the daytime when we're
conscious and awake with the angel of power on
behest of the, you know, it's a relationship
we have with the earth mother. Then at nighttime,
we surrender. This is where I go, the lucidity
is right in the middle. When you're in the lucid
state, you have mother and father both present,
which is super awesome. And so you go into this
lucid state, but at nighttime, you're literally
surrendering to the Heavenly Father, into the
esoteric, and you've got the seven angels. And
you can commune with one of the angels every
night, and there's seven days of the week. So
you can literally rotate seven angels, seven
days. It's all beautiful. But you can have these
communions day and night with mom and dad, spend
time with mom, spend time with dad, and it's
an ongoing process. What you're saying, it's
such a perfect dovetail with the... It would
be, if there is going to be a revolution, and
I think you're quite right about that, it's not
going to be welcomed by the forces and powers
that be that want to control us, is it? So that's
going to be... I mean, think about the prisons.
Like, say you have a hardened criminal. And they
have an option of staying in the cell for the
rest of their lives. That's interesting. I mean,
I'm just thinking of these. Because I look for
answers. I'm looking for answers. The reason
I wanted Mike on is because I need to learn.
Well, no, you give them an option. You have to
give them an option. It's very intentionally.
You have to want to change. You have to want
to. If I were to try to rip somebody out of their
home and just take them into the woods and give
them this, they may have a very bad journey because
they're thinking. You have to, it calls you.
So what you do is, you know, I can see a scenario,
say you have a hardened criminal who God knows
what that person's trauma is. It's a reflection
of an infinite divine creator, beautiful soul,
most likely, right? And now they're incarcerated
for the rest of their life. What if there was
a way we could say, okay, look, until you, let's
just, if you want to voluntarily go through this
program, instead of paying. $100 ,000 a year
to incarcerate you. Let's spend five grand. Let's
put you through this program where we can...
And then at the end, you're still going to wear
a tether. You're still going to do all these
things, whatever we need to keep you legitimate
in society, right? We can still do that. But
at some point, I feel like we should permit them
to finish their journey and go through this so
we can systematically empty the prisons. It's
humane. We need to... People are going to respond
to it because they want people to be punished.
I think it should be necessary. It should be
part of our Constitution of the United States.
If you're going to be a politician, you need
to get real. Yep, I believe that too. You need
to get real. Do I have Oscar trip before becoming
a politician? Something like it. I love it. I'm
on the same page. I believe that. Because these
people are psychopaths. And that will purify
you is what is going to do that, isn't it? Well,
you know, back in the day, look, you didn't get
to be a politician. They didn't even call them
politicians. They were statesmen. You were a
statesman. And the idea is that you're going
to represent we, the people. The people of your
if you're in Nigeria, you're going to represent
your people. Right. But you didn't get to be
that elevated status because of your political
power, your influence or who your dad was or
how much money your family had. You rose to that
level because people loved you and they trusted
you. And that's gone. Yeah. So if you could,
as a minimum, have it so that these people have
a come to Jesus moment with themselves. And they
know that getting up there that, hey, look, I'm
here for a bigger purpose than these. So you're
not, you're not, because if you put a, if you
put broken people into politics, you're going
to have broken results. You want to strip the
ego from this politician primarily so they're
acting from their soul essence. I mean, that
would be, but there's so many practical, for
me personally, there's so many, do you like music
at all? My music genre has changed significantly
since I lost it. But yes, I listen to a lot of
spiritual. I listen to it all the time. Five
-finger death punch? No, my favorite artist right
now is named Ape Chimba. I don't know what language
he speaks. I get that, but there's a really good
video talking about veteran suicides, veteran
PTSD, veteran trauma, veteran homelessness. Great
video on that. I'll put a link to it. But if
I could just help those veterans normalize their
brains, because they're beautiful people. They
did what they did to serve others. There's a
soulful aspect to a homeless veteran that we
need to help. We need to bring those people back.
I've seen videos of soldiers leaving to do an
Ibogaine treatment. And when they get home, their
wife starts crying the moment she sees them without
saying anything. Because you can see it in their
eyes. And I'm so... I have so much respect for
this medicine that, like I was even telling my
sister this, if somebody offered me a chance
to go do Ibogaine. How does Ibogaine differ from
DMT? So from what I've understood is Ibogaine
will shoot you into your shit. for close to two
to three days. Oh, wow. In a concept you're in.
And they've, I've also read that, you know, people
will administer you and help you. You have to
have admitted, like the volunteers make such
a difference. Um, that's a big commitment. It
is. And then from what I've heard is after you
get out of an Ibogaine treatment, you enter this
state of mind called the gray, where it's kind
of like, you're not depressed, but you're just
there's an anti -climax you don't know what the
fuck just happened to you concept you're just
in this zone and then from what i've heard i
don't don't know if it's because i've never i've
never done ibogaine but from what i've heard
is then after you sit in the gray for like a
day or so they then administer you bufo which
is called the god molecule and from whatever
that god i've done bufo about six times But after
that Bufo experience, from what I've read, is
that's when you completely, you just, that's
it. You've transformed. So they're a tandem experience.
That's from what I've heard. Yeah, and that's
very similar to what I've studied because there's
different layers. Like you could just do, you
could do a mushroom trip that's going to get
you into some shallow, like you can go very shallow.
And it's both the breadth and the depth. It varies
depending on... Yes. And I've heard... And it
can depend on how sick you are mentally as well.
It's going to depend on your own consciousness.
I feel like ayahuasca allows you... So the way
I look at plant medicines is I view them as the
cell phone from God. So God would give us a way
to retune ourself. He wants to be able to greet
us at the doors. But the devil's down here just
giving us our traumas. So we cannot enter the
heavens as he intended. But I also think that
by giving us our hell, our cleansing zone, to
be able to absorb these traumas and then be able
to cleanse ourselves through them and get to
the peaceful state to enter. is more beneficial
because we wouldn't be who we are today without
our traumas. I wouldn't change any of mine. I
wouldn't change any of mine. No, it's interesting,
isn't it? And I think that the way I look at
it is ayahuasca allows you to retune yourself
to a degree. It's not, ibogaine is going to,
it is going to rewire you. you're you're in you're
going to go it's a full reset more hardcore than
ayahuasca in my opinion yes to the point that
i respect these medicines so much that if somebody
offered me a free ibogaine i don't need it right
i think that's very legitimate especially if
ayahuasca is the teacher the mother she'll tell
you it's like this not this this not yes you
know i would feel bad taking a spot on an ibogaine
ceremony when i know about four or five people
personally that need that spot yeah that's true
you know if you guys had an ibogaine ceremony
here and you're like hey we have unlimited ibogaine
you know everything's full come what's the compound
in ibogaine what is it it's a west african root
it's a root it's a root i forget the name of
it's like a IBOU, it starts with IBO. So a trip
to West Africa then? I've been there. I've been
to six West African countries. So let me ask
you this. I want to kind of put a bow on this.
And first of all, gratitude to Mike. Sarah just
finished. You don't know this about Sarah. She
just finished a very extensive catechism. We
talk a lot on this show about spirituality and
our journey. Based on what Mike's shared, Sarah,
what are some of the novel insights you've seen
that, you know, how does this dovetail with your
catechism? What I like about it is what you believe
and what I believe to be the therapeutic properties
of it. So can this... transport someone into
a better experience of life on planet earth and
get them out their ego loops the answer would
be yes i think you'd have to be brave you'd have
to be committed so i see it as a beautiful thing
for the people that are right for it i know a
lot of people that wouldn't touch it with a barge
pod and i think that that's okay for them Me
too. That's fine. But for the people that wish
to have a bigger, wider, better experience, I
think that that's something. I know that I'm
going to do it. I absolutely know that. Yeah.
I don't know when. I didn't know last week that
I was going to meet you, so who knows? But I
would like to try it and then see for myself.
I'd want to definitely have subjective experience
before I would. think about it any further. Do
you feel any of the concepts dovetail with your
catechism? Well, so I believe that we're creating
our reality with our minds, that we live in a
quantum field, that this is what God prepared
for our growth and that life mirrors back our
inner state of mind and that there's no outside
forces creating our reality, it's us doing it.
So if you did Ibogaine or you did Ayahuasca and
you got rid of a lot of your impurities and you
you'd purge them, then maybe what you could create
in this quantum field would be absolutely spectacular
because you'd be now in control of your mind
without so much ego dominating. Yep, you'd be
able to create. I feel like we are sent here
to create our home. So my home, when I die and
I go to where I believe my new home is, I can
already tell you it's going to be filled with
family. It's going to be filled with these avatar
plants that I love. It's going to be filled with
the most unbelievable. It's my room. And the
plant medicine helps you like the ego. So when
I was growing up, my brother had a big ego. He
was the man. He was Mr. Popular. So every time
I would go out, there was no matching his ego.
So even as a kid, I would be out fishing. I would
be out exploring. And then I started working
with my parents. And I kind of naturally took
on that role. So there was never really once
in my life where I was just like, what do I want
to be? So ego to me, I feel like I didn't have
much of an ego. Ayahuasca gave me my ego. And
I look at ego as a double end. You have a human
ego and a spiritual ego. And I look at it as
body armor. to where your ego is your body armor.
So if you are, you know, you're, you're a professional
in this field and that, and you're, you're, you're
the top of the field and no one can tell you
any different. That's one of your egos. You are
that. And you have that, that body armor to where
I feel like I didn't have much. So when I journey,
I feel like my journeys go significantly deeper.
Because I'm not breaking apart what I am because
I was truly searching for what am I. And now
I believe my ego is my spiritual body armor is
now layering my ego to where I'm not saying I'm
immune to the devil, but there's no more attachment
to it. I'm not saying that he won't eventually
traumatize me, but it's going to be really hard.
It's going to be really hard. It's going to be
to the point where if something traumatic does
happen to me, I'm at the state of mind where
I may want to sit with that trauma for a year.
I may not run to my medicine right away because
I want to understand this trauma and then tackle
it. And it's almost like you don't appreciate
the trauma, but you understand it is playing
a role in your life. So you have embraced it.
You've embraced it. And being able to. Like death.
It's hard. Death is not a dead end. But once
you break through that with ayahuasca and you're
able to see your grandpa, the hardest states
of mind I've ever been fighting my fights, something
or someone beautiful will save you. My grandma
is always there. And I always tell my mom, she
always, every time I get out of ceremony, she's
like, did you see Nana? I'm like, mom, she's
always there. I've been crying on the floor and
I will just see my grandma's hand come down and
just place her hand on top of mine and you're
out of it. You feel the love. You feel the, yeah.
So there's nothing to fear ultimately then? No.
The only thing you can fear is yourself and your
ego. Your ego is going to let you battle. How
hard are you going to... Before you surrender.
Until you surrender. And I didn't have much of
an ego, but I would say some egos would be living
up to my dad's expectations. That could have
been part of that ceremony. Being able to finally
rip free, become my own man. And at the same
time, connect and become him. Yes, that's an
interesting part, isn't it? And he's always with
me. He's always with me. Rather than being in
his shadows. We're united to the point where
when, if something did happen to him, say he's
got, you know, 15 more years, you know, hopefully
20, 25. When that time comes, I know exactly
where I can go see him. Well, exactly. I was
just going to say that. The veil is gone. The
veil is gone. I have seen friends that have passed,
my grandparents on both sides, my brother -in
-laws. Father passed away about a month and a
half before my last ceremony, and I saw him.
And it's not even a, it's a minor thing. Do you
see any pets? Not, okay, so not necessarily individual
pets, but I have been to places where I will
be in front of this huge avatar plant with a
massive stem and millions of eyeballs on it.
And I'll be viewing this. And somehow I just
understood this is the place that animals and
plants can come in order to view us. I don't
know why. It didn't leave a huge impact, but
it was like, that's cool. Curiosity. Yeah, that's
interesting. I'll accept that, you know. But
there's a lot of things about the ceremonies
that are amazing. Oh, mentioning. So I brought
you guys a gift. I forgot to give it to you at
the beginning. We love gifts here. I was getting
excited. I was getting excited. I was getting
excited. However, there's two of them in there.
But yeah, even at the beginning of ceremonies,
they offer a, it's called hape. And it's a ceremonial
ground tobacco plant. And it's in an ash form.
And they administer it straight up your nasal.
Oh, yeah. Right? And the, the, um, the different
tobaccos, once, once it enters, it's, it's unpleasant.
It gives you, but it, it relaxes your nervous
system to a point that just opens you up before
the medicine. And, um, it's like a premed, just
a warmup. And like, I have Hoppe here with me.
and i don't do it all the time but the moments
in life when shit gets real you get in you know
your stresses are hitting you from all angles
you know i'd like to say it's the devil's punching
me on any turn you know the bill's got to be
paid this and that just snuff a little bit of
this if things get intense yeah i can go sit
on my patio like and it's an instant kind of
it's a it's a relief it it forces you to almost
a meditative state because the effects are just
kind of like, it's right there in your core.
So it engulfs you to where all of your stress
is just, you almost get the chills, but you can
feel it bleeding off of you. So like I said,
I don't do it often, but yeah, if there's a,
same thing as a, in ayahuasca ceremonies, they
always tell you one of the most important things
you can do is take time for yourself after your
ceremonies. Throughout the span, take five minutes
for yourself. I don't believe there's much that
can do that for me besides hape. Because if I...
And hape is, what's the ingredient of it? It's
different plants and herbs. Yeah. And it's also
a ground tobacco plant. And they just crush them
up and take the ashes. They burn it and take
the ashes. Can I grow that in Florida? I don't
know. I'm sure you could. Did you buy that from
somewhere? There's a website. A couple of my
buddies have websites that they sell them. And
then they ship it to you. And then the administer,
I forgot the name of it. It's a Ker -P. I forgot
what the name they say. Looks like this. Smells
good. And so you would just take a P -shaped.
Right. And you load it in. And then you would
just. And you blow it straight up. Snort it right
up. Yep. And you just kind of, it's more of a,
instead of like, even when they administer me
before ceremony, they always tell you like, hold
your breath and lock, like kind of lock the airways
because the administer is going to blow themselves.
Or this one I would blow here and it would shoot
itself up. And, um, and yeah, it's a very, um.
And for those of you listening, what we're looking
at is just basically like an L -shaped device
that looks like a straw that's bent. And you
could literally blow into the tube and it goes
up your nose. That's what we're looking at. Basically,
yeah. Self -administering. So thank you for the
gift, Mike. So those are kind of just ceremonial
hoppe bottles, but they're decorative. I got
them, I think, after my... I want to say I got
those after my... They're identical. Oh, we have
twins. And I got them. It's just a little...
Oh, look at how cute. Oh, thank you. That's so
thoughtful. And they have little ayahuasca roots
embedded in the side and the top of them. Oh,
that's so beautiful. Thank you. So I want to...
God, that's so amazing. I always appreciate little
gifts. Oh, that's lovely. So I want to put a
bow on this. First of all, I express gratitude
to you, Mike, for coming out. Oh, thank you,
guys. Sarah, I want to let you close... Not close,
but just any closing thoughts on the... topic.
Then I have one last question for Mike. No closing
thoughts, because I think we should have another
conversation. I think we should. Yeah. Yeah.
We'll do this again and then follow up. We'll
do some more research, but cause I still have
a lot and I think we're gone. This is a good
first starting point, but Mike, when we came
here, you mentioned several times that this,
you see this experience of doing a podcast. And
by the way, you're only our second podcast, like
where we have a guest and I think it's very valuable.
At least it is, but both of them have been, for
me, a very valuable experience. But you had expressed
that you perceived this to be somewhat therapeutic,
a part of your journey. What does that mean?
And did you feel like this fulfilled the need
for you to have such a therapy? Did we accomplish
the goal? Oh, beyond that. Because, like I said,
they call it integration after you take ceremonies.
And it's a way to just get it out, a way to express
new belief systems, new ways to think about situations
and the people help you kind of get to that goal.
And like I said, there's only so much my business
partner and my wife can take before you start
getting really weird. And there's not a lot of
people that you run into that. have these mindsets
so it is like i said it's a yeah you say there's
it's a lonely life so for me to be able to come
here and just be me my authentic hat you know
this is the real me i don't have to be a business
owner right now and the idea that this could
reach one person that's in a bad spot and understand
just enough information to research this is beyond
therapeutic for me because I would fight as hard
as I can for this plant medicine because of the
powers, not only that it affected me, but it
also, it saved my sister, you know? Yeah. And
like me and my sister are best. And repaired
your relationship with your dad. Yes. It's beautiful.
And like even with my dad, me and my dad had
a great relationship. It was a maybe subconscious
trauma of trying to fill these shoes. And I understood
I'm beyond those shoes because I am those shoes.
And it humbled me. Ayahuasca allowed me to appreciate
the last stages of his journey in a different
perspective. And if people can understand that
this medicine is not... It might be scary. But
it is the... We've all been through scary situations
in our lives, though, I think, haven't we? I've
been through horrible stuff. And categorically,
we come out stronger. We come out stronger. And
you wouldn't change it. And you wouldn't change
it. Some of the most dirtbag experiences I've
had have made me powerful. So I get that. So
moving forward, if somebody wants to get a hold
of you, can you give me a link or something?
Maybe they can get a... I need a way if they
have questions, how do they get a hold of you
or do you even want to remain anonymous? Or they
can get in touch with you through our website.
Just have them get a hold of me and then I can
forward it. Yes, because I'm at the beginning.
It was funny when I was driving here, I was looking
at all the pastors coming in and everything.
And my first 10 ceremonies, my sole intention
was to shake hands with God or Jesus, right?
That was my basis. Every time I went in, my sister
would laugh at me. What's your intention? That's
it. Because I need proof of something beyond.
And I got that on my 10th. I figured I got what
I was and I feel like the next chapter of my
journey is about to open. So being able to come
here and do this podcast really solidified. everything
and it's really allowing my spiritual self to
close this chapter to an extent and being and
it's allowing me to continue on it's beautiful
we're glad to be part of that to be continued
i think we should have another conversation so
as our second guest what what overall not talking
about ayahuasca but just the overall experience
you've never done a podcast you're only our second
guest What's been the experience here at the
treehouse? There can't be much that would intimidate
you, though, because you've seen so much. Well,
he wanted to come early to kind of chill out
and get the lay of the land. So there was this
unknowingness. But if you were to make a suggestion
to future guests, what would you advise them?
What would you say? They're in a good spot? Oh,
I'd say that this place is amazing. It's amazing.
And no, it was more than what I expected, honestly.
What did you expect and what did you get? I expected
to be nervous. I mean, I'm putting it out there.
No, no, that's fine. I just don't know how anything
could be nerve -wracking after seeing this incredible
reality. And it was freeing. I haven't slept
much since you told me that you wanted me on
your podcast. Oh, you can sleep tonight. Oh,
yes. Solely because... I've got some herbals
you can have. You can sleep for 24 hours. I'll
give you some mummy offer tonight. And it was
freeing for me being able to talk about something
that I'm very passionate about and being able
to be... I'm not an expert. I'm not by any means
a facilitator. I'm my own. You're a journeyer.
I'm a journeyer. And being able to step into
a conversation, and it's just such an open, loving
conversation to be able to express what this
is about, it's therapeutic. Like I said, man,
I have these conversations with my head, with
myself, and I'll laugh. So there's some fellowship
in this, isn't there? The whole community. People
talk normally about what could be considered
abnormal, and a lot of people wouldn't touch
this. Yes, even the concept of after ceremony,
they have multiple different facilitators that
you can sign up to their weekly integration so
that you can go on to their weekly, talk about
your experiences, and they'll help you kind of
navigate. It's a way to release positive energy.
I'm going to ask one more question, and this
could actually segue into our next interview.
preparing for the show and just, cause I wanted
to do some basic research myself, but, um, I've
got this earth angel project on which I'm working
and Sarah's got her church that she's working
on that and they're going to integrate in some
way, but I started, you know, I have this idea
of, you know, we talk about first responders
and all this stuff benefiting from this, each
one of us individually with our soul's journey,
but there's some really high level people and,
you know, politics, governments, universities,
businesses that really could benefit from this
and set themselves free. Do you see that as a
possible vector for them to get to their next
level as a CEO of a major corporation or something
like that? Oh, I believe everybody. This plant
medicine is for everyone. And I'm on the same
page with you. I truly believe that every single
politician should have to do this at least three
to four times. Interesting, fascinating. Yeah,
and I just threw that out there as an off -the
-cuff comment, but it's actually relevant. You
could say that prior to being a parent, you should
do it three or four times. I mean, prior to doing
anything. Prior to doing anything important,
let's have a reality check. Yeah, let's have
a reality check. I think that it's, like I said,
it's the cell phone. To God. It allows you to
cleanse yourself. So on this episode, we need
a cell phone to God. Make a caricature of him
with a cell phone to talk to God. So like, as
far as me today, I am the most, I'm the freest
I've ever been in my life. And I'm excited to
continue my journey as a free soul. But also
as the traumas come in, I have a place to go.
So I'm no longer fearful of those because once
something happens to me, I know how to handle
it. I know you're going to be fine. I know I'm
going to be fine and I know it's going to be
the most beautiful fight of my life. So in a
very brief sentence or paragraph, say a closing
thought to the brand new person who listened
to this episode the whole way through and they're
considering ayahuasca for whatever reason, whether
it's trauma, a new experience. Curiosity. Desperation.
In just a sentence to a brand new person listening,
or even to a skeptic, a religious zealot, that
this is the devil, you know, make a suggestion
to those people listening. To those people listening,
I would say, one, to truly free your soul is
one of the most beneficial experiences of my
life. And also, as they research this medicine,
the biggest thing that all the facilitators I've
ever been around have said to me is the medicine
may not give you what you want, but it's going
to give you what you need. And it's not going
to take you beyond what you're capable of handling.
And it's so true. You'll get pushed to your limits,
but how do you know what you are without getting
pushed to those limits? I can't guarantee, but
I can say every single person I've ever been
around has said it will leave you in the most
beautiful spot when you're done. Ladies and gentlemen,
thanks for listening to Soul Decodes. This has
been Mike Solis. Sarah, closing thoughts? No,
I'm just going to take in the whole conversation.
It's been beautiful meeting you. I've enjoyed
every minute of this, and I can't wait to talk
to you again. I have a whole bunch of questions
that we didn't get to, so we can do another one.
Thank you for coming on the show. It's been a
delight. Yeah, truly. And I'm going to try it.
I've always knew that I would, so we'll see.
Everything we do is unscripted. We don't have
an agenda, but this has been... A really good
episode. I think this is going to be one of our
best episodes. I hope you'll share it with your
friends and family. Yeah, just send it out. Maybe
we should give him a chance to do his own graphic,
but the thing is it has to be done by 3 a .m.,
so I'll probably do it. If you want to redo the
graphic, I'll replace it down the road. I'll
give you an intro song. You got an intro song?
I can send you one that would... Yes, I've got
so many. Okay, listen. Yes. Okay, so... That's
nice. What you heard at the intro, do you want
it at the beginning or the end? Whichever. I
can do both. I'll do like 20 seconds at the beginning
and then the whole song at the end. How's that?
Perfect. Okay, we'll do that. Shoot it over as
soon as you have it. And for those of you listening,
souldecodes .com. You can communicate with me
and Sarah. We have show notes. And if you want
a guest on this show, we're in Central Florida.
If they're willing to drive to the treehouse
and they have something, some way that something
they want to speak from their soul, we're going
to. We'll decode it. We'll decode it for them,
right? So anyway, thanks, y 'all, for listening.
And thanks again, Mike. Thank you. Bye -bye.
Soul Decodes, a feature presentation, airs every
Friday on the Earth Angel Media Network. This
episode of Soul Decodes is sponsored and produced
by Live Pure. Optimize your life by taking your
health to the next level. Listen now to learn
how Live Pure will make your world better. Live
Pure is an American -based distribution system
of online portals that give discounted access
to clean, potent, natural, and ethically sourced
healthy solutions for fat loss, muscle gain,
immaculate skin care, immune system support,
whole body cleanse, physiological balance, and
performance support for athletes of all ages.
Live Pure handpicks the best products and nutrients
from world -class companies. Always adding to
their quickly growing wellness lineup that now
includes Korean skincare, medical grade nutraceuticals
listed as pharmaceutical alternatives in the
physician's desk reference, and healthy coffee
that rivals the world's best, but for only about
a dollar per cup. Soul Decodes listeners looking
for vitality, youth, beauty, and better health
can get 25 % off retail by visiting www.LivePure.com/gateway
and signing
up for free as a preferred customer. If you are
a content creator, influencer, or home -based
entrepreneur looking for worldwide cash flows
from the emerging gig economy, Live Pure State
of the Industry Brand Partner Affiliate Program
can bring you up to seven different payment vectors
as bonuses. As a content creator aligned with
Live Pure and Earth Angel Media, you will enjoy
massive co -marketing benefits, including a cutting
-edge website that is personally branded to you
or to your business. Sign up as a brand partner
at www.LivePure.biz/gateway
or drop us a note at connect at www.earthangelproject.com
to get more information.