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Enjoy the show. Welcome to Soul Decodes. Join
us as we wander off the path to find the ideas
that fascinate. We talk about spirituality, the
mind, the ego, wellness and hidden history with
tips, travels and tales. Charms for a better
life. Hello everybody and welcome. This is Dr.
Tia Jolie Phillips and you're at The Treehouse
with Sarah Tirri. Good morning everyone. How
did you sleep last night? Terrible. What? Absolutely.
It was absolutely awful. And the irony is that
we're going to be talking about sleep. What a
terrific way to open up our show. By the way,
that wasn't scripted. I was just asking you.
I'm glad you asked. Well, we were actually, we're
very interested in talking about sleep, but sometime...
either now or in the future, but you had indicated
you want to talk about sleep. Sure. And I agreed.
And we've had previous conversations about sleep,
and I just thought that we should probably talk
about it on the air. Let's do it. Okay, there's
different parts to sleep. I know I can talk a
little about the health and wellness part of
it, but there's also this multidimensional, this
esoteric part of sleep. Do you want to open us
up with that? What does sleep mean to you? Well,
I think sleep is very, very weird. Because if
we're on evolution, I mean, I'm not sure that
it's linear anymore in the way that I used to.
I think civilizations come and go. But if adaptation
is the way that Charles Darwin taught, that sleep
is horrible because you could be attacked. You're
completely out of it. You're vulnerable. I mean,
it's the worst thing in terms of wanting to survive.
You're scaring me. I used to love my sleep. Now
I'm going to have a hard time. But we are very
vulnerable and we could be attacked. I mean,
and it's different now, you know, times are better.
But back in the day, a lot of people got murdered
in their sleep. So in terms of it, it's kind
of a design flaw in a way. It's interesting you
bring that up. I didn't think you'd open with
that for sleep. But what's interesting is the
true test. Like when you're in the military doing
a patrol, a basic patrol is two people. I mean,
it's the minimum patrol. You have two people
that are covering for each other. So when one's
on watch, the other one's sleeping or resting.
And when the other one's done sleeping or resting,
the other one's on watch. Well, you'd have to.
You couldn't have you both asleep. Right. You
can't have you both asleep. No. So when I was
instructed for commando school, we'd actually
had a red marker. a red permanent marker. So
if one of the students that was supposed to be
on watch fell asleep, we would literally go up.
Stick a red dot on his head. No, we'd put a red
line on their throats. Oh my God, did that wake
them up? That would wake me up. It woke them
up, but they'd be asleep. Oh my goodness, that's
so funny. If we caught them asleep, we literally
put a red marker across their neck. Well, having
a guard, it's important. It's been important
throughout history, hasn't it? But, you know,
that's part of culture too. I mean, you know.
Part of it, being in a family or being in a village,
is a recognition of the importance of sleep.
And I have some printout, just some little things,
anecdotes that I want to review later, but about
how different cultures viewed sleep. But I think
the smallest unit would be the individual and
the family. But I know in my family, I've come
to find that more and more and more people value
sleep so much. They actually have separate sleeping
quarters. Yes. Even married people. My husband
and I do. Yeah, yeah. If you really love somebody,
you want them to sleep. Because otherwise it'd
be cranky. That's absolutely right. My friend
Charlene, her husband retired recently and she's
very careful in the morning. She's just very
light -footed and she doesn't make any noise
because he's catching up on probably 50 years
of not having that much sleep. And she's very
cognizant of that. And again, it's because it's
important to his well -being. And it is very
important. When I was a stewardess for British
Airways, I was doing long -haul flights out of
Heathrow. The nearest flight we had from Heathrow
was Boston. going west and then Abu Dhabi and
Bahrain going east and all we could talk about
when we met for breakfast in the morning did
you sleep well last night how did you sleep and
it was crazy in the first few months this is
all anyone we were fixated on sleep now it was
terrible the way that they had it because we
weren't on a bid system so we couldn't bid for
the same trip over and over again we were allocated
trips which was actually great because we could
travel the world but absolutely crazy for sleep
you could be in New Zealand one week and over
in Seattle following week but sleep was all anyone
talked about in the morning we all oh did you
sleep how did you wake up oh and it kind of became
quite a neurotic pastime talking about it so
I kind of let it go but um yeah we were all fixated
on it and I still am I mean I'm really aware
of the importance of it I had a crap night last
night and my focus is off this morning I can
tell it's interesting because When I hear you
talk, it goes back to all my military days. There's
a program called SERE. It stands for Survival,
Evasion, Resistance, and Escape. The Resistance
and Escape involve being in a mock -up, basically
a prisoner of war camp. And the first couple
days in the prisoner of war camp, one of the
first things they do is deprive you of sleep.
They literally do everything they can. They put
you in solitary confinement. They put loudspeakers
outside your door. There's a dripping water.
There's a recording and there were loop recordings
of the crying baby, the clanging, you know, the
pots and pans clanging. It's just anything they
can do to keep you awake. And the reason is because
they see the value in sleep and they want to,
in terms of breaking you down, they recognize
the first thing they need to do is. destabilize
you destabilize you take you off balance and
take away your sleep yeah and then you're not
going to be able to focus in the same way and
from a training standpoint now we don't do this
with pilots did you have to go through that oh
i went through that plus a few more because I
volunteered. I mean, it's good training, the
training itself. Cause we got to fight all. So
how did you find it then when you were deprived
of sleep? How long did they keep you up? It's
very, well, you, first of all, they put you in
solitary confinement. I'd be okay with that part.
Well, except for you're in a, in a booth. It's
like the smallest phone booth. Can you lie down?
No. You standing up? No. You have a stool with
one leg and you have a bag over your head. Wow.
So you need to learn to meditate and control
your mind. You do. It's all about controlling
your mind and controlling your thoughts. But
from a military fighter, from a prisoner of war
camp point of view, we had this code of conduct
that said that, you know, basically there's like
six different elements to the code of conduct.
I don't know, it might be different now, but
back then it was six. But the idea was... that
no matter what happens, I'm going to keep faith
with my fellow prisoners, right? My comrades.
So one of the things they do is they break you
down mentally by depriving you of sleep. And
then they start to play mind games on you. If
you think it's difficult, like if somebody said
to you, oh, Sarah, you wouldn't believe what
Tia's really said to you. And this is like in
some social group, right? Well, imagine what
would happen if... You were sleep deprived for
many days. And then they said that to you. Your
ability to... It would be reactionary. It would
be all reactionary. Yeah. You know, so as a prisoner,
you know, they could say, you know, all the other
prisoners hate you. And, you know, here's a recording
of them hating. They could take a spliced up
recording and about... And the purpose of that
is to ensure that you're controlling your mind.
It's to see how tough you are. Yeah. Because
you can tell... You can tell how viable a fighting
force is by how they perform when they're tired,
when they're exhausted, when they're sleepy.
And this is where you see this with the Navy
SEALs. You know, you always hear about the Navy
SEALs, but probably the most, I can't really
say because I've not been through all of them,
but there's a really very little known fighting
force. It's called the Combat. control team.
It's part of the air force actually, but they're
trained in much the same way that the Rangers,
the sales, all these other forces, but they're
also air traffic controllers. So they're like
not only bad -ass like warriors, they're skilled
with all the perimeter defense, all of that stuff.
Uh, but they're also air traffic controllers
and they can be inserted anywhere in the world
to control airdrops control. Wow. So that's very
impressive. The control, but those, Do they have
to go through that type of training? Oh, all
of us do, yeah. Was it as bad as you thought?
Well, you know what's interesting? It's about
learning about yourself. They're not there to
torture you. They could, but we're training.
It's not real. But the idea is that if you can
train your mind how to behave and function...
While you're in the most decrepit conditions,
you're tired, you're hungry, it's hot. Uncomfortable.
It's hot, it's cold, your boots are wet, your
feet are wet. How long did you last? Well, I
mean, all of us lasted. What was the longest
you went before you fell asleep? Well, it's hard
to tell because when you're sleep deprived, you
lose sense of time. Right. But from what I gather,
it's probably, you start to really kind of get
a messed up mind after 48 hours. Yeah, I don't
think I've ever been. But I think three days
is probably a number that would probably start
to freak out most people. And you can hear people.
I heard people in the other solitary. You can't
see them. You're separated. But you can hear
people start to freak out a little bit. Really?
Yeah. And can they demand that someone opens
the door and lets them out or they've got to
endure it? Well, I don't want to go into too
many of that. I'd be a big baby. I'd be like,
let me out of here. But we all volunteered for
this. Yes, exactly. And you're a very curious
woman. So you're at that point, you're interested
in what this is going to do to you. And that's
probably the very thing that kept you stable
was your curiosity. But all of us knew we were
there voluntarily. The sleep deprivation was
to learn about ourselves. And then what they
would do is take us into... uh, interrogation.
So they'd sleep deprive you, then take you into
interrogation and try to get, you had certain
secrets that you were not allowed to tell. Like
they would give you a card before I say, okay,
you're a, you're an F -15 pilot or you're an
F -15 navigate, a wizzo or something. Uh, you're,
you're, this is your role in this scenario. And
they would try to get you to talk about what
you did in the military. What, what is your job?
Oh, you're the general. You're the sergeant.
You're this, you're that. And the thing is, you're
supposed to say name, rank, serial number, date
of birth. That's it. Like basic stuff. You're
not supposed to tell who you are, who's in your
squadron, what your mission was, how long you've
been deployed, where your base is. You're not
supposed to talk about all those things. But
the thing is, talking about sleep. You have to
be really focused because it's really easy to
say things unwittingly because you're sleep deprived.
But it was really something of an exercise. Did
anyone fail or have to redo it? Did people leave
and think, I can't handle this? Well, I don't
think there was necessarily failures because
what they would do is there's different levels
of training. You're not supposed to come out
of role. It's a training role, but you have to
treat it like it's real. If somebody was tending,
like when I was the instructor, we would take
turns being the aggressors and being the instructors.
So if you're the aggressor, then you're the one
that's actually doing the field interrogations.
You're the one that's putting the pressure on
those people. If you're the instructor, then
you're kind of playing in the shadow and you're
making sure the patrol or the people, they know
what they're doing. They know how to react. But
we've been pre -briefed on most of the stuff
going in. But in commander school, when I was
the aggressor, we would sometimes play games
with people. Like if you were going to come out
of role and you wanted to, oh, this is too much
for me. What I would do with you is I would take
out a cushion or I would literally, I would put
your patrol mate, say there's two of you, and
we captured both of you. and you want to do it
easy on yourself, I would say, okay, you take
it easy, sit here, here's some water, here's
some food, and then I would take your partner
over here, and I'd probably tie him to a tree,
or tie her to a tree, and I would... Make him
as uncomfortable as you can. Totally, yeah. I
can't really say this. And the lesson is that
if you're weak, then it's going to affect someone
else. Correct. Your patrol... Your patrol is
only as strong as you are. You're the weakest
link. If you're going to be that weak link, everyone's
going to suffer. So what I would do is if you
want to take the easy way out, you do it. I'm
going to put your friend under duress. It's called
under duress. We're going to make him kneel on
pine cones. We couldn't do like nail, you know,
bamboos under there. That's not, this was a training
exercise. You could have him like stand on one
foot. You've got to be a certain mindset. I'd
really admire it. I think I'm too much of a baby,
too much into my comfort zone. But you learn
about yourself. That's the whole point. What
did you learn that you didn't know? That you're
a badass. I mean, it must make you feel like
a badass if you can get through that. Any time
you're tested and you endure and you come through.
I think... Through any section of life. Well,
so that's a very good question. I didn't know
we were going to go down this path, but... This
is not about the individual. I think the number
one thing you learn, and the one reason I really
miss the military so much, it's not about me.
It's about us. It's about... But you said that
you were learning about your own mind. True.
Did you impress yourself with your resilience?
Or did you think, you know, I could have done
better? Did you evaluate yourself? I mean, not
really. I mean, when you're backwards looking
backwards, like even now, I'm 62 years old. I
look back at my life. I'm like... What did I
do? But when you're in it, you don't think that
way. You're mostly thinking about how can I help
my people? When we were actually in the, when
I was actually in the prisoner of war camp as
the student, we actually set the record for,
they didn't tell us till afterwards, but because
I'm a smart ass, I always got accused of being
what they call covert leader. covert leader so
every there's a structure within all organizations
and there's almost always the formal leader and
then there's the covert leader and um the covert
leader was the one if you're the smart ass like
oh you must be the covert leader and they would
take you and give you special attention right
but but i embraced that role i wasn't the covert
leader which is good because i knew who the covert
leader was they isolated me and wanted me to
to rat out the covert leader, but I didn't. What
I did was I embraced the role, and they were
telling me, what's the plan? What are you all
going to do? And I would lie to them. I would
tell them something false, and I would catch
the heat. But while I was in prisoner of war
camp, the training scenarios, my group set the
record for two records we set. Number one was
the number of simultaneous escape attempts. So
we had people going out the camp multiple ways,
multiple directions at the same time. So even
if three or four or five were caught, two or
three got away. So we always had multiple escape
attempts at the same time. Success ratio. We
coordinated distractions. We'd have a couple
people start a fight in the middle of the camp.
So the guards would come forward to break up
the fight, but then we'd have escapes going on.
But why weren't they aware of that, that this
was a decoy? But they know that, but this is
what they wanted to teach us. They wanted to
teach us to work as a team, even though we're
in this very austere environment, they wanted
us to work as a team. So we set two records.
Number one was the number of simultaneous attempts.
And at the end of the week, we had set the record
for the total number of escapes. Good. So I never
escaped. I never escaped because I was in the
spotlight. I drew so much attention. But there's
value to that. Right, yes. Because even though
I couldn't escape, I helped so many other people
escape. So that's what I learned about myself.
And all of us learn to some degree it's not about
us. It's not about us individually. It's about
helping other people and being a resource for
other people. That's lovely. I couldn't handle
it. I could not be sleep deprived. You could
though. No, you really could. The sleep part
would be horrible. It would be horrible. I could
do some of the psychological parts of it. It
would be horrible, but you'd do fine. This is
the whole point is you don't even know what you're
capable of doing. But you're beautiful and you're
powerful, and this is about self -discovery,
and it makes you a more powerful person. We should
open up a boot camp, a sleep deprivation boot
camp, three days, and we'll test everyone, and
they'll feel great at the end of it. Why don't
you just be an employer of a major corporation,
and you'll have 500 zombies looking for you.
No, I want to run this whole thing with your
expertise. Oh, my God, you're so funny. So let's
double back to sleeping because we talked briefly
about separate rooms for people. I know Robin
and I, we have our bedroom, but if one of us
is tossing and turning, we almost always just
say, okay, look, if I'm the one that's tossing
and turning, I'm going to sneak out and go sleep
on the couch or the guest room or something.
And even if I'm getting up to make coffee in
the morning. I tiptoe. I want to make sure that.
Yeah. I'll never do it like before five. Like
I won't push the go button. Right. Yes. I don't
want the. I know that whirring. Because there's
a little beep or what. Yeah. I don't want any
of that. They ought to have a silencer on those
coffee machines. They really should. They really
should. Because my husband. It's a big expensive
beast. But it's so loud. It's so loud. It's terrible.
We never hushed it on this. So we have this.
So we really honor sleep in this house. Yeah.
And we try to protect it. Yeah. It's, it's pretty
important. So what are some of your more novel
experiences with sleep or not sleep? Well, I
had, so let's go into a little bit about dreaming
because I knew we were going to talk about sleep.
And, um, I, um, fell asleep. I woken up around
five in the morning. And I'd gone back into a
dream sequence. And I seem to be able to remember
my dream sequences when they are the early ones
in the morning. I don't seem to be able to remember
early ones, but the earlier ones. So I was with
my husband. I was in India. And it was before
we had children. We were on this road called
Tangier Road for some reason. So this is a dream?
This is a dream. And this is two nights ago.
And it was early in the morning. And then there
were tuk -tuks and rickshaws everywhere. It was
as you would remember India when you were there.
And then all of a sudden my dog Molly appeared.
There was no context for that because she wasn't
even born then. And a truck came and hit her.
Really just laid her out. And then I woke up
with a start and shot out of bed. And then I'm
thinking, what the fuck? It was really, and then
Molly's there sort of wagging her tail and everything's
fine and I readjust. And I'm thinking, what was
the point of that? And then in my mind, I have
workers coming to the house that morning to do
the tile. And then I'd let Molly out. I'd made
a cup of tea. And then I thought, you know what?
I'm going to let Molly back in because was that
some type of warning? I had three trucks come
down the driveway and Molly could wander around.
So was that some message? that I needed to protect
Molly. So I did have, and I would have probably
left her to wander around. She'd be over by the
pond. And I didn't. And I brought her into the
house for some reason. So did I avert a disaster
by this random, hardcore, it was so brief, but
it's just so real. So I'm not sure whether we're
getting warnings about a future moment. And that's
a mechanism that the universe uses. Those are
really good questions. And I don't know the answer.
I don't. I can tell you that there's been times,
I think to some degree, sometimes I'll wake up
and Robin and I'll have coffee and I'll talk
to her about my dreams or she'll talk about her
dreams. But sometimes she will tell me, I'll
say, I dreamed about this happening. And there
were all these little bits and pieces and scrambled
little, it's like an amalgamation of things that
don't really seemingly connect. When I explained
to her the dream and how my dream connected all
these pieces, she'll say, well, that piece was
from the plant exchange because remember that
lady said, and that other piece was from that
person you saw at the store. Remember they bumped
your leg? She's seeing it like a puzzle. It's
like a puzzle. And I think that to some degree
your mind kind of seeks to put together these
nonsensical things that happen during the day.
and weave it together into a picture that kind
of makes sense to you. But what would be the
spiritual point behind that? Because it all just
sounds like a crapshoot. Well, I don't know that
there's anything in that regard. I don't know
that there's anything spiritual. But maybe our
subconscious is learning something. We don't
have access to that, and something profound is
going on. Well, I think if you back away from
what I just shared, I think there's a lot of
people who dream about stuff, and they realize
if you think about it, there were fragments from
the past week or month, or maybe some thoughts.
thinking about. Because your subconscious mind
is receiving all these data points and it doesn't
know what to do with this. So your mind is always
trying to complete a picture. Right. So it's
got all these fragments. So it satisfies your
mind's penchant for completing a picture, perhaps.
No, I don't know. We're just calculating. I don't
know the answer. Yeah, I know. But I know first
person that if I ever have those days that are
completely disjunct and there's a bunch of randomness,
sometimes my dreams do try to put those together.
But if there's a dominant thought, like say one
of my children's having some problems in their
life. Well, if my dominant thought is worrying
about them, it might not even be them. It's what
they're going through. So say they're going through,
say they lost their cat. My son lost his cat.
Well, the loss of a cat, that's to some people
like losing a family member. It's really bad.
So he was really upset. So my feeling about him
losing his cat was that of sadness and compassion.
You know, I was like, dang, that sucks. Well,
that feeling is what transmutes into the dream
stage. It's not necessarily the details of how
did the cat die? How old was the cat? But it
was the actual feeling. It was the experience.
that translates into the dream. And then your
dream tries to weave those together. Dreamweaver.
Yeah, that's right. Gary White. Great song. I
love that song, right? So I think dreams, you
know, dreams throughout history. Do you remember
your dreams with clarity? So I wanted to, you
mentioned that, you mentioned that the dreams
you have closer to when you wake up. You can
remember them. You can remember better. I do
have some, like. the frequencies of sleep, but
I want to just, before I go there, I want to
talk about the REM sleep. You have different
stages of REM sleep. So you have non -REM sleep
and then you have REM sleep. REM sleep stands
for rapid eye movement. All right. The first
stage of REM sleep is shallow and brief, but
then the second stage is a little bit deeper,
a little bit longer, but the third and fourth
stages. You're going deep into sleep and your
fourth stage is the longest. So probably the
reason you remember your, your later stages,
the third or fourth stage, depending on how many
stages you have is because you're, you're in
there deeper and longer. It's more experiential.
the first couple of stages, you're just kind
of falling. It's like going, it's like skiing.
You go, the little, the little bumps going down
the hill, but then pretty soon you're picking
up speed and you're getting deeper into these
moguls and deeper, you know, bigger slaloms.
It's just, it opens up for you. It's funny, when
I had this dream about Molly and she got hit
by this truck, I woke up immediately and it was
in my mind. But I have had many times where I've
woken up and I'm aware that I'm coming through
layers. And I'm not going to be able to describe
it particularly, but it feels like layers of
consciousness. And if you could just see layers
in a rock and then I'm coming to the surface
and I'm aware that that is happening to me. And
I've been somewhere very far away. And then I
kind of. of slowly going through layers and coming
back to this reality. That's kind of an interesting
experience. I like how you frame that up, because
you said, I came back to this reality. I sometimes
wonder if what we're in here is the dream, and
then that's the reality. I think this is the
dream. I think this is Maya. This is the illusion.
This is the simulation that we're in. I have
multiple reasons for saying that, but first of
all, in my dreams, Well, in your dream, let me
ask you this. In all of your dreams, you've probably
been injured or hurt or whatever. You maybe even
been killed or whatever. But were you ever killed
in your own dreams? I actually don't have that
much experience with murder and killing in my
dreams generally over my lifetime. I did have
a dream. And this was the first time that I had
lucid dreams where I dreamt I was sitting on
a couch. And to my left, there was this quite
a... inadequate looking man stature wise and
in his appearance but he was absolutely evil
and his intent was to harm me the most brutally
he could terrifying absolutely terrifying and
in my mind in the dream The thoughts came into
my head, in my mind, in the dream, change what
you're thinking about. And then I pictured a
hotel in El San Juan, the El San Juan Hotel in
Puerto Rico. And I pictured being in the lobby
there. I'd been there many times, beautiful paneled,
lovely crystal lighting. And then I was transported
there. This man had gone and he was nowhere in
my reality at all. And that was the first time
that I had changed the trajectory of my dream
because I was so terrified. I love that. Thank
you for sharing that with me. I actually have,
well, the reason I bring up, do you die in your
dreams is that you don't. Oh, he was going to
kill you. Because like, even if, even if you
fell, even if you fell off a 20 story building
without a parachute or without anything, you're
just going to hit the ground. You either wake
up falling or you wake up hitting the ground
and bouncing, but you don't die. You literally
don't die. And has that happened to you? Oh God,
I've been... And so you're aware that I've just
fallen off a 20 -story building and I've bounced
and I'm awake. I cannot even tell you how many
times I have died in my dreams, but I didn't
die. So does that mean every time that happens
to you, you're not scared about it? Well, I don't
know what it means because... But it would alleviate
the terror because you know that you're invincible.
Well, here's the thing. Let's just say that there's
a scene in your dream where you get hit by a
car and you're flat out dead. How do you know
you're dead? Because you're taking a look at
yourself from outside of your body. So you have
left your body, but you're the observer. So you
are still alive. This meat suit, this avatar
is laying there, but you're still having an experience.
So the fact that you're conscious. And you're
dreaming is prima facie evidence that you're
still alive. That's right. The fact that you
can interpret, you can analyze, you can remember,
you can recall. All of those are evidence that
you're alive. You're just playing this movie
out. It happens. Now, one thing, when I met Robin,
she was previously married to an alcoholic. It
was totally abusive in terms of mostly emotional.
But after we got married, I would come home and
open the garage door. I'd come in and she'd be
in a cold sweat because the garage door opener
was a trigger. So that's when her ex -husband
came home and he was... It was just being an
idiot. Or maybe she thought he was dead on the
street or something. Because when alcoholics
go do stuff, they're not thinking to call home.
They're not thinking to leave a note where they
are. And that's very traumatic for a spouse,
right? Didn't know where you were, any of that.
You could have been... yeah in a ditch somewhere
especially in michigan in the winter there's
you go off one of these country roads in michigan
in the winter you're gonna wake up a little icicle
you're gonna be like you're gonna be like a popsicle
when you wake up so so you know you don't know
the garage door triggered her then that was so
but it took a long time uh there was triggers
that drive you into this fear state that's your
amygdala yeah and The amygdala is the part of
the brain that's where the fears and the nightmares
kind of get triggered up. But sometimes there's
triggers that happen that make you go there.
And you can change those out by replacing the,
like when the trigger happens, replace it with
something else. So it's called CBT, which is
cognitive behavioral therapy. So as soon as you
hear the trigger. you have to immediately say,
there's the trigger. I'm going to change the
output. I'm going to refocus. Whenever that happens,
I'm going to recalibrate. Well, for years she
had nightmares, and we agreed, we had this conversation
about nightmares, about how important they are.
And the reason they're important is because it
helps you come to resolution. Without actually
having to do that in your daily waking life.
It's just like being in a prisoner of war camp.
Yes, you can see that's a good way to frame it.
So if you're in a prisoner of war camp, the whole
thing is about training you to deal with those
things. So a lot of times with nightmares, if
you can have a discussion with somebody about
what was the nightmare, what were your feelings,
what were your thoughts, how did you do? By the
way, you were alive to talk about it, so you
won. Yes. So the nightmare was actually just
like life. It was a gift. Yes, I think that's
a great way to frame it. So even now, I basically
never have nightmares anymore. Like zero. I'm
always winning in my dreams. That was a nightmare
because Molly had died being hit by a truck.
So that was a recent nightmare. Very brief and
I woke up so it didn't have much impact. But
it was so real though. There was no distinguishing
this from that. So in terms of training our consciousness,
I think everything's got a purpose, including
nightmares. So our dream states... Did that help
Robin get over her nightmares? Yeah, she's almost
100 % now. That's great. Now, I personally, I
don't know if I'm going to disclose this to public,
but I mean, I still have sometimes what's called
PTSD. I don't know if you know what that is.
Yes, post -traumatic stress disorder. Yeah, I
still have some of that. And if you're a veteran
or first responder... whatever. I want this message
to be through to you that just dance with it.
It's going to get better. Let it go. If it comes
back, greet it. understand that it's part of
your healing process right and is this happening
to you when you're awake or in your dreams most
uh when i'm deep asleep then you're deep asleep
and they're those the only those the only recreation
of some certain scene that happened to you is
it well i mean that's kind of private but yeah
but yeah but is it are you remembering an event
yeah there's real time in your real time event
in no they're almost never exact events okay
Almost never. They're almost always synthetic,
but they have elements of the actual event. But
the thing is you, you wake up in, sometimes you
wake up and then you, you're just traumatized.
Like you're sweating. You're, you're literally
shaking. Um, but what I've learned to do is give
gratitude that whatever just happened was not
real. yeah that i'm here i'm safe safe i'm in
i'm in a house bad is ever going to happen i'm
in a house with someone who loves me there you
go but the other part of it is even if something
did happen to me even if that was real i'm infinite
yeah my soul my soul is going to go someplace
else so that's a very good belief system to have
if you're having these episodes well this is
the only thing that you're impervious to any
type of destruction this is the only thing that's
actually helping me over the years It's the only
thing that helps me with it. I think they're
called, there's a name for them. It's like N
-PTSD, nighttime PTSD. But basically, it only
happens at nighttime. It only happens when your
prefrontal cortex, when your thought capacities
are basically zero. You're completely degraded,
and you're basically raw, and you can't. But
what's interesting about my dreams, those nightmares,
And again, they almost never happen anymore.
It sounds like you've healthily processed it.
Well, you do. But what I've done is I started
realizing, because when you start to dive into
what are those dreams, why are they happening,
in almost every circumstance, I died protecting
somebody else. Protecting somebody else. Pushing
them out, taking the round. jumping on something
doing i was always doing something to protect
somebody else and uh sorry you got to talk for
a second all right i will so we got frequencies
coming up we're going to talk about frequencies
in so i want to hear a bit about this and what's
the implications of the frequencies so And we're
all vibrating at a certain frequency. I understand
that and I conceptually understand that. But
these frequencies as regards to sleep. Yeah.
So just to put closure on what I was trying to
wrap up there. Yeah. What I've come to learn
was an extension from really from the prisoner
of war camp. But it's also really metaphoric
for our lives. Like, who are we and why are we
here? We're here. for ourselves to have experiences
but we're also here to serve others yeah and
there's probably it sounds so cliche and so were
you like that as a child were you quite selfless
as a child was that as a result of your military
training no no no i was the opposite as a child
you were selfish as a child i was selfish as
a child i wasn't me me me no i was a really good
kid i was i was the friend you wanted to have
but i was also i hated myself And I wanted to
off myself, but it was going to be, I spent most
of my life, probably two thirds of my life wanting
to not be here. So I wonder whether you decided
to protect others and take the bullet for someone
else was because in, in that you would get off
the planet yourself. That's part of it. But also,
uh, if I do something that valuable, it ultimately
gives my life value. It gives my life value.
So, so. You know, those are things we could talk
about, but the bottom line with the nighttime
PTSD, the nightmares and stuff, is that if you
run away from them, see, here's the thing with
life, anything in life, if all of us are going
to either run towards something or run away from
something, we're always more excited running
towards something. Or stimulated. Adrenaline's
firing. When we're running, because that's something
I want to do. Even if you're running into a machine
gun fire or something, you're running into the
line of fire. It's exciting because you want
to do that. It's intentional. If you're running
away from something, generally you're running
away because somebody's trying to exert force
or influence upon you. And the best way to deal
with that is run and hide. And that's distress.
So as a rule, that's why I teach my people, if
you don't have a vision for yourself, then you're
subject to the world. But if you have a vision
for yourself and you state it, you give your
purpose, you give your intention, and you go
for it, the life gets exciting. Sarah Theria,
you're writing all these books. Every day is
exciting. You just wrapped up another book. What
do you have, 40 of them now or something? I don't
even know. Every time I talk to you and you just
wrap up, you finished up a book, you're fired
up, you're excited, and your mind is like, what's
next? Because you literally told me, I just wrapped
up a book. I'm excited to get to the rest of
my list. Yeah. The reason your life is exciting
is because you have these things you're going
towards. Purpose. You want to do these things.
Even if it's going to the beach or going to the
theme park or going to the movies, if you're
moving towards something, life is exciting. If
every day is the same thing, I got to go into
the stupid boss, stupid neighbor, stupid this,
blah, blah, life sucks. You got to change something.
You got to find something you can run towards.
Right. So, um, but, but the, the nightmares for
me, it's, I had to run towards them. I had to
face them and say, okay, I see you. I know who
you are. I know why you're here. Thank you. Yeah.
You're trying to heal me. You're trying to help
me. And even if you don't understand the processes,
you're having faith that something good is going
on cognitively and you're going to show gratitude
for it. I love it. That's how I do it. I mean,
if it helps another veteran or something, great.
That's great. I'm glad that we have this conversation.
Yeah, it's pretty cool. It is going to be helpful.
I'm not glad, but I'm glad we're talking. Well,
I've never had PTSD. I've had certain things
happen to me which haven't been great, but not
to the level you had. But a lot of people have,
and that must really suck. So there's some, you
talked about these waves. These frequencies.
Yeah, these frequencies. They're pretty cool,
actually. But did you know the Earth, Gaia, we
call her Mother Earth, do you know she's got
her own frequency? I've heard that. Yeah, it's
just under 8 hertz. It's about 7 .84 hertz or
something. For those of you who don't know what
hertz are, it's cycles per second. That means
it's going to vibrate almost 8 times a second,
the Earth. Well, our brain has got different
waves too. There's been experiments where they've
taken college students and put them in an underground
cave, like a chamber, and they removed the Gaia
frequency. They basically... What happened to
them? They went crazy. They literally went crazy.
They lost track of time. So Gaia's frequency
is stabilizing. Yeah, it's very stabilizing.
And so I say that only because even though I
can't express to you the importance of these
frequencies, we have to acknowledge that they
do exist and they are important. When those students
came out of the cave, or it's not a cave, it
was like an underground bunker, and they neutralized...
the Gaia frequency. So the eight Hertz, they
actually put an equal and opposite signal and
it neutralized that frequency. So they live their
lives normally. They could do anything they want.
They could eat, they could do all this stuff,
but that frequency was taken away and it literally
made their brains scattered. So for some reason
or another, these frequencies actually have a
profound impact on your, on your brain. The frequencies
that our brain enjoy that are closest to mother
earth is called theta right theta and those frequencies
are between four and eight hertz so between four
hertz and eight hertz now i'm just going to read
this because i just printed out but yeah it says
these uh these emerge these frequencies emerge
during light sleep and rem sleep so the first
stage of rem sleep associated with dreaming theta
waves also appear during deep meditation and
drowsiness when you're transitioning into sleep.
So when you're in that place right before sleep
and your day is done and you're giving gratitude,
you're meditating, and you're just falling and
you're just settling in, that's theta. Now prior
to theta, like when we're living our lives, we're
in alpha. Alpha, I'm going to just read it. It's
between 8 and 12 hertz. It says associated with
relaxed wakefulness. So right now you and I are
probably pretty close to alpha. Right. Alpha
waves appear during a transition to sleep to
relax and close your eyes. So we go to alpha,
but you can actually be in full consciousness
in a state of alpha. So if you're one of those
peaceful people, you've run into people like
us where you're just... Just chill. There could
be a complete shit show around you and you're
okay. You just chill. You're probably right on
the brink of... on the teeter of alpha, but then
there's, um, the, the deepest sleep when you
go into those really deep REM sleeps, uh, stage
three and four, those are called Delta waves.
And this is between 0 .5 Hertz and four Hertz
0 .5 Hertz means that it's one cycle every two
seconds, right? That means your brain is only
cycling 30 times per minute. That's a really,
really low frequency. And is your brain restoring
during that time? Is the purpose of this low
frequency? Yes. God, you're so good. The delta
waves, it says, are essential for physical healing
and the immune system functioning. So I'm not
going to go into all these, but I'm just going
to say that when I was doing this basic research,
I was stunned. There's so many really super cool
things happen when you balance your body and
you embrace the sleep. You dive into your sleep
with appreciation, with gratitude about your
sleep, healing yourself. Talk about healing.
I want to share one thing. We have this, you
know, when our body, our muscles fire, you know.
if I'm firing my muscles throughout the day,
working out on the farm, or you're thinking and
writing books, whenever you fire a cell and the
cell does work, it also excretes toxicity. It's
metabolic waste. It's the equivalent to us pooping
or peeing. And this is physical and mental exercise.
All of it. Yeah, in fact, your mental exercise
probably is what keeps you trim and slim like
you are because your brain burns so much energy
during the course of a day. especially you you're
always thinking always working and you're burning
a lot of that energy right but your brain's using
so much energy it's also producing a lot of metabolic
waste because your cells they poo and they pee
right they excrete stuff well that stuff stays
in your brain until your brain flushes you know
when you go to flush your toilet yes So is this
flushing happening at this frequency, this certain
frequency? It happens during, from what I understand,
and I'm not a sleep scientist, but it happens
during the third, fourth, and subsequent stages
of REM sleep. So you have to get in, you've got
to get past the first couple stages. So those
people that don't go into the deep dream state,
their brain's probably not flushing. That means
all the sewage is staying in their brain. And
they wake up, they have brain fog. All sorts
of issues. They wake up tired. Yeah. Golly, they're
looking at their clock and they're like, holy
crap, I was in bed eight hours and I still feel
like crap. Well, you got to get into that deep
sleep so your brain does this flush. Now, your
body has got what's called a lymphatic system.
It's not really a system. It's your entire body's
ability to flush just by being active, moving
your joints, moving your body. It pushes the
lymphatic fluid up to your upper torso, and it
gets excreted at nighttime. When you're asleep
between 10 at night and 3 in the morning, all
the fluid from your lymph descends from the top
of your chest cavity onto the top of your liver.
Basically, your liver is your primary excretory
organ. It basically does its job. It's recycle,
reuse, all night. Recycle, reuse. Rest, repair,
recycle, reuse. That's all your liver does for
you. If you're not getting that deep sleep, then
the liver can't do all of its work detoxifying.
Now your entire body gets toxic. So now you've
got a toxic body. You're not detoxifying your
brain. Your lymphatic system is trying to take
out the trash, take out the trash all the time,
but it's starting to pile up. Same thing happens
in your brain. You've got to get into that deep
sleep because... If you're not doing the deep
sleep, you don't get that flush. Now, your brain
has its own sanitation system. It's lymphatic,
but it starts with G. So it's glymphatic. So
it's a glymphatic system. And it's the coolest
thing. I've seen actually an electron microscope
of this happening in real time. Oh, my goodness.
And I'll try to find it for you. But what happens
when you're in that deep sleep, you know when
you take the handle of the toilet and you flush
it? it takes maybe some time to flush, and then
it takes another 30 or 40 seconds to fill back
up. That's exactly what your brain does. There's
this moment in time where your brain flushes,
so all of the trash, all of the fluids get flushed
from your brain, from the glymphatic system back
into your system to be excreted, but then your
fresh, clean fluid from your... Cerebral spinal
fluid. So you're going to have cerebral spinal
fluid that pumps up and refills your brain with
this beautiful, fresh... It's fascinating. It's
really cool. The design is just... Oh, it's stunning.
Yeah. So this is not about just, oh, going to
have good dreams or bad dreams or whatever. This
is a physiological necessity. I got a call yesterday
from just this adorable girl. She just moved
to Claremont a couple months ago. She was one
of those remote workers for, she had a government
job. Okay. And she was working away from Idaho.
She's from Idaho. And she's just absolutely brilliant.
She's cute. She's adorable. And she's stressed,
stressed about everything. She gets so much because
she was told that she, she moved to Florida and
she was working remotely and kicking ass. She
was doing a great job. She got a note that she
had to go back to Idaho for her work. And now
she's stressed because she loves it here. So
she's not sleeping and all this stuff. Bottom
line is, I turned her on to some really clean
nutrients. I was just going to ask you that.
Yeah. She called me yesterday. I was actually
on a Zoom call with her. She's been sleeping
like crazy all night long. And interestingly,
it was one of the same stories that Robin told.
Because if you introduce certain nutrients to
the people, You also have to talk about stress.
But you introduce certain nutrients, they go
into the sleep a lot easier. They clean their
brain easier. All of those systems become a lot
easier. And it begins with M. Well, magnesium
is one of the components. Melatonin? Yeah. That's
a good thing to take in order to be able to sleep.
And that's something our body produces? Or do
we need a supplement? Yeah, you're so smart.
You don't need to supplement it. So melatonin
is, you're correct, that's what helps you go
into that deep sleep state. But the precursor
to melatonin is what's called serotonin. Now,
if you've got a gut issue, if you've got Crohn's
or IBS or you're taking a bunch of pharmaceuticals
that jack up your gut, if you have a disrupted
gut, what happens is, let's just say you're taking
all these medications or you're stressed, and
you're only pooping once or twice a week. And
I've had those people. I had a lady that she
was only pooping twice a month, and she was almost
dead. I'd be terrified to eat. She was almost
dead when I found her. She was laying on a couch.
She couldn't even lift her head. So, you know,
we recovered her. She's fine. But basically,
she was malnourished. She was almost dead because
her system was pretty much shut down. She had
been on medication since she was five years old.
Wow. How old was she? She's in her early 50s.
Wow, that's a long time. Have you got her back
on the road? Yeah, she's good. She's slipping
a little bit, but her husband sent me a beautiful
note about thank you for giving me my wife back.
That's so nice. That's so lovely. The thing is,
if your gut is disrupted, if your gut is not
working properly, there's a neurotransmitter
called serotonin. The serotonin, neuro means
nerve, transmitter means communicator, right?
So the serotonin is telling your gut, hey, squeeze
that poop out. That's its primary job. It's called
gastrointestinal, which is your gut motility
or peristalsis. So you really want the gut to...
You want the gut to function properly so everything
flows. If it's not flowing, then you get this
stagnant, toxic stuff building up, and eventually
you can blow a hole in your gut. It's called
a leaky gut. But what should happen is your gut
squeezes this poop out, and if you ever had a
really robust poop and you just feel like a million
dollars, Babies are great. They have a poop.
They suck with moms. They suck on the mammary.
They're like happy, happy, happy. They poop.
They have this big smile, and they're like, okay,
change my diaper. I'm out. There's some relief
in it. There's a relief, but that's the serotonin.
So when you leave a good dump, I always hate
people saying take a dump. No, leave it. You
want to leave the dump. You do leave it. You
don't take it. But when you leave a good dump,
that serotonin enters your circulation and gives
you a good feeling. Well, that's just the serotonin
from your gut. Right. S1 configuration going
to your brain into an S2 configuration and sitting
there as a precondition of your synthesis of
melatonin. So you want your gut to work properly
so you can sleep at night. I know it doesn't
make sense to us, but that's just how it works
with the neurotransmitters. So it's really important
you take care of your... So gut health is vital.
Gut health. Yeah. Absolutely. So you talked briefly
about controlling your dreams. Lucid dreaming.
Lucid dreaming. That was the only time that I
had. I'd like to... Have you played with it at
all? Yeah, well, I've tried to program myself
going into a dream. Okay, I want to wake up and
I want to be able to direct it, but I haven't
managed it yet. But I'm working on it. How long
have you been doing it? How long have you been
trying? Since I had this lucid dream. And I don't
know how long that was, probably 18 months ago.
maybe two years ago that was the only time it
happened but it happened under duress i was about
to be absolutely brutalized by this guy so that's
how and then i in my mind it was change the thoughts
but i don't have necessary i have weird dreams
but not necessarily bad dreams so i'm not looking
to change an outcome in a dream necessarily so
maybe that has something to do with it i'm not
being attacked by zombies or anything so in your
opinion what do you do you personally get value
from your dreams No, well, I don't. I think I
do. I'm quite certain I do, but on a level that
I don't understand. But my dreams, I mean, the
laws of physics are not there. There's no rhyme
or reason. There's no context. There's scene
changes. So no, on my superficial level. But
I have faith that something is getting well organized
in my dreams. So I'm grateful for them. But I
don't know what it is that I'm getting. But I
have faith that we have a creator. who designed
this entire system that we're in, the higher
order of intelligences, and there is something
good going on. But I haven't worked out what
the fuck's going on. Well, let me ask you this.
Have you ever tried to put your... Like, you've
said that you've listened to different things
on your ears. You've listened to things and stuff.
Yes, I listen to podcasts, and then that podcast
becomes a member of the cast in my dream. So
I've incorporated this reality into a dream.
I've done that. So you've done that with a podcast.
Yes. Do you think you could do it with your own
consciousness? I'm hoping to. But I haven't made
any strides to being successful in that. Because
if you're listening to a podcast, you're basically
taking somebody else's consciousness. And then
he's coming into my dream and sitting at a restaurant
talking to me and what he's saying is what. So
I'm merging two realities. So your question is,
can I do that with my own consciousness? Right.
Can you make yourself that other person? Yeah,
well, that's a good question, isn't it? Even
if it's your future self. like just i wonder
if i record myself and then listen to myself
some people do that and then incorporate because
it's happening with other people you've been
in a dream talking to me oh cool yeah so if i
record myself maybe and i could experiment with
that that sounds well sarah some people do that
some people actually do that um a lot of i've
heard it mostly with respect to affirmations
so like the way it would deploy like if somebody
was um You always want the affirmations to be
affirmative. So you don't want the negative part.
You want the positive part. And they almost always
start with I am. And it's especially effective
if it's in your own voice. I am this, this, this.
And it doesn't even have to be like a physical
self because you're entering your dream state.
Say you wanted to just be more confident speaking
in front of people. Or you wanted to be a better
singer. You could literally... do these affirmations
throughout your sleep. Now, I've never done this.
Maybe there's some listeners who have done this,
but I've never done it. I prefer to set the things
in motion and then surrender it to the divine.
But I don't do that without putting guardrails
in place. So I used to, you know, 15 years ago,
I used to just... go into this dream state and
just try to give direction i'd i'd try to guide
my dreams before i go in and it didn't work i
find the best time to guide the dreams is right
prior to you sliding into them because otherwise
you have a bunch of monkey brain right activity
all the activities from the day i didn't balance
the checkbook or the kids got it was in a fender
bender or whatever there's all of this strange
stuff so you have to kind of get into that really
that alpha wave And just get right prior to sliding
in. And that's where the programming comes in.
Yeah, because that's where you're suggestive.
And keep it very simple and very point. So do
you say to yourself, I want to fly tonight? Can
you be that direct? In fact, that's funny because
I've done that. And you've actually ended up
flying as a result of asking that of yourself.
Absolutely. That's great, isn't it? I've got
more flying dreams. But here's the thing. This
is fascinating. And this dovetails with a lot
of your spiritual laws, the alchemy laws. It's
not about... This is where I went wrong. I'm
just going to tell everyone, if you're going
to try to do this, I'm going to save you a lot
of... It's a cautionary tale. I'm going to save
you lots and lots and lots of years. Because
it took me years to figure this out. It's not
about you. speaking things to yourself in a linear
manner. That can work, but if you really want
to get into it, you want to immerse yourself
into the dream. So as an example, instead of
me saying, tonight I want to fly an airplane
that I've never flown before. It's not even been
invented yet. Well, that's a pretty cerebral
entry to a dream. Those are not very effective.
What I try to do is I immerse myself into a scenario.
where maybe I'm in Area 51, if it exists, or
I'm in Skunk Works, or I'm in some Boeing future
planning or McDonnell Douglas future planning,
and I'm with the engineers and we're having this
discussion, and I'm kind of setting the stage.
Not only am I there, but I'm feeling. You're
setting a scene. I'm setting a scene. Yes, you're
not giving yourself direction, but you're using
your imagination. Yes. It's way easier to get
into the sleep, the sceneries that you want when
you set the stage. What am I feeling? Is it sunny
or cloudy? Is it rainy? Am I hot or cold? Yeah.
Am I hungry? Yeah. Did I eat? What did I eat?
The more real you can make it, who am I with?
Do I like that person or hate that person? Is
this somebody that's guiding me, right? Is this
a mentor? The more you can complete the picture
and the feeling that you're actually there, the
easier it's going to be to slide into those states.
I have this process where I'm on a pathway and
I do this a lot and I have beautiful trees. It's
kind of like a paradise, this pathway. And I
see all the trees and I notice the birds and
I'm very present. And I can actually see the
transition from this just being my imagination
into the full imagery of a dream. And I can see
this dream closing in on me and then I'm sucked
into it. I think it's beautiful. Yeah. And I've
done that a lot. That's very nice. If I can focus
my attention sufficiently, that's a great way
because I can be asleep very quickly. That is
so beautiful. And that's really one of the secrets
to getting all these people that are like looking
at their alarm clock. It's like, damn it. I've
been laying here since 1030. Dr. Phillips said
be in bed at 10. I was in bed at 10 and it's
1115. I'm still awake. This is where you exercise
this. Well, you've got to focus your attention.
Your attention. Well, that has to happen first.
But also your imagination. Well, that comes after.
And you focus your attention. Yes. That's monkey
mode. And now you can build this image like you're
at the skunk works. Yeah. And you can start building
that. But that takes focus. Yes, you're right.
And then if you're going to bed because you're
tired, your focus might be off anyway because
you're bloody tired. So it's harder. So it's
harder, but it's worth it. Oh, it is worth it.
Because when you're, remember, when you're tired,
you're more in focus. influential so instead
of trying to shut the monkeys down train the
monkeys train them it's like okay that's why
you want every detail because you're taking these
screaming monkeys you're getting their attention
and focusing them on every detail yeah are there
birds you'd make a good writer Having this eye
for detail is very, very important. It's too
much like work. So you can program a dream, you
give it all the detail, and then you're in that
dream. And then if you remember it, you'll know
that your programming was successful. Well, you
can only really program the entry point. Until
about five years ago, I knew about lucid dreaming,
but I really never... I never really conquered
it. Even now it's not conquering it. It's learning
to use it as a tool. I know how to use it as
a tool, but I'm not nearly as good as I'm about
to be, right? And what I mean about lucidity,
we talked about sliding into the sleep and how
you can give it the initial impetus. Yes. And
you can kind of guide your dreams, but you really
can't control them. Now, all of us have had these
places where We've been stirred. Maybe the coffee
maker beeps or somebody slams the door. We call
it the dumbass because we have a donkey. When
the wind's blowing from the northeast, this donkey
at freaking three in the morning. Oh, that's
funny. And we hear it going, you're doing this
donkey thing. We call it dumbass. But something
stirs you, but you're not fully awake. Yeah.
You're still peaceful. You're safe. You're not
threatened. You wake up a little bit. If you
can just use that opportunity. Don't come to
the surface. Yes, don't surface. Stay right there.
You can get back in your dream. No, not even
get back in. Like you can literally, that's the
only time I've been able. It's called lucid dreaming.
So if you're flying an airplane, you're actually
flying the airplane. You can actually take control
and you're actually in your plane. You're controlling
it. If you want to be someplace, you can make
the plane go there just by thinking about it.
It's not about surrendering back to the dream
state. I've done that, though. If you want to,
yeah. I've been at that point where I can hear
something in my everyday reality, and I haven't
surfaced because I've stayed where I was, and
then I've chosen to go back in a dream. Yeah.
So that's good. And that's cool because I've
had those dreams. Because I liked the dream.
Yes. It was a really exciting dream. Exactly.
And I've had those where you want to go back.
It's like, oh, I've got to pick up where I left
off. But then you're thinking about going back
to where you left off. That's a kiss of death.
Those suck. Thinking too much then. But if you
like the idea of lucid dreaming, this is most
effective if you've pre -thought the entry. So
maybe noon the day before, if I have an opportunity
to wake up a little bit, maybe you're fluffing
your pillow, something like that, where you're
a little bit awake, you want to just gently insert
your desired dream state. You don't want to synthesize
it right then because then you have your cognitive
self. You're fired up, your cognitive self. You
want to just leave it on the shelf. It's on the
nightstand. You're awake a little bit. You just
reach that little dream that you wanted. You
insert it and you go back. And that's, it's a
suggestion more than a direction. Right. And
you can do that throughout the day. Yep. Yeah.
So this is useful if you want to solve a problem.
I know there's a lot of people that throughout.
throughout traditions that have used what we
just talked about for... I think that we probably
do solve problems, but I just don't know whether
our conscious mind understands the problems we
have solved. But I have faith that we are doing
something useful. Well, there's different cultures
that have used these dream states just for some
very significant purposes. I actually downloaded
a few of these. This is interesting. I just wanted
to find out what different cultures... what they
did for sleep and such. Some of this stuff is
going to really make you laugh. In Japan, the
Japanese, if you fall asleep on the subway, they
actually look at that as something honorable.
Oh, really? Yeah, because they're saying, gosh,
this person is comfortable enough. No, I thought
that too. No, gosh. Well, they put so much value
on being a hard worker. They're like, this person's
clearly a hard worker. Look at them. Look at
how deeply they're sleeping. They're slobbering
on everybody, right? But they honor that. I thought
that was hilarious. Another one is the Spanish
siestas. You know, they take a nap, an afternoon
nap. That's to do with the heat, isn't it? Yeah,
that has to do with a little bit of the heat.
That was mostly in the sun. on the farms. Yes.
But now that there's urban areas, they don't
do siestas as often. I bet if you went through
rural Spain though, everyone would be asleep.
All their shutters would be closed. And I still
believe that's changed in hundreds of years.
Yes. That's actually the case. Yeah. It's actually
almost a, it's almost like a lifestyle where
you just do your little siesta. Now sometimes,
you know, Robin and I, our, our days are busy
and I know you nap sometimes. Yeah. I can't nap
every day. But. Even if it's just 10 minutes.
That's all you need. That's just like a little.
Yeah. Oh, it is. It's revitalizing. It's just
a little bit of a. Well, we're not sure where
we go. We're going into, I think, some other
dimensions. We don't know what's being restored
in our mind there. But I know if I have a five,
even five minutes, it's great. I don't want too
long, actually. I wouldn't want an hour. Yeah,
I told Rob, she'll say, I don't want to go to
bed yet. I'm so tired. And I was just, go take
five, ten minutes. Just five, yeah. And I can
program that. I can say to myself, you're having
a five -minute nap, and I'm generally pretty
good about that. Yeah, so the different cultures,
the Koreans, I'm just looking this over. It says,
in the Chinese, they have heated platforms made
of brick. or clay, and they serve for both sleeping
areas and daytime living spaces. So if they fall
asleep, it's great. They use that in that manner.
The South Koreans do something similar, but they
use it for overall health, for spine alignment.
So there's different people use these ideas,
not necessarily for nap, but also for rest, to
realign your body. to give yourself even a play
surface. So I thought that was interesting. And
then I like this one the best, like the indigenous
Australians. They refer to dreaming as a deliberate
connection with spiritual experiences, ancestral
connections, and even the creation of stories
about the world. So I know my grandparents, my
mom's mom. Was Mystics. And they were big into
sleep. Have you ever had people like interpret
dreams and all this stuff? Yeah. I have a friend
who's pretty good at doing that. How are they?
Because I've listened to people try to interpret.
I'm quite good at interpreting other people's
dreams. Really? I have a harder time with my
own. That's fascinating because Robin can sometimes
tell me about my dreams. If I explain, she'll
say, well, that's because, you know, you ran
over that coffee can. I'm like, I didn't even
think about that, but it's correct. That was
the connection. Maybe you have to be outside
of yourself to have somebody. Maybe. Have some
objective. Huh. Rather than being subjective.
Yeah, I do. Disasterly interpreting mine. But
I can tell my friend and she'll kind of just
lay it out. This is what you're feeling. Wow.
More to do with feeling than the situation. What
do you think about these people that say, oh,
well, you dreamed about an owl. Therefore. You're
going to have a brother that dies or something.
I think there's weird stuff. If you see animals
during the day and then you Google this, I saw
an owl or I saw a donkey or whatever, there is
some spiritual meaning which is kind of cohesive.
A lot of people think the same thing, that an
owl is to do with wisdom. Before I went to my
lake house, I had an owl that was visiting for
three weeks every night. And my friend said,
OK, it means this, this and this. And she was
right. Then I Googled it. I was like, oh, wow,
this is what it means. But we don't know whether
it means that. But whatever we assign. We assign
a meaning to that. So this owl is giving me wisdom.
That's really cool. In my dreams, it's just a
crapshoot for me. But if you were to tell me
a dream, I'd give you a good stab at it. Next
time you have an interesting dream, tell me,
and I'll see if I can analyze it. I don't think
you'd want to know. Because Robin, she puts her
hand up, and she's like, let me get some coffee
first. Well, this has been fascinating. The one
thing we didn't really dive into too much was
this, we touched on it, but the other dimensions.
Do you really think that this is, are we in reality
here or is there a different reality? No, I think
that we come from much. broader reality. And
this is very, very dense. And this to me is like
a computer simulation. I don't know this. This
is the belief system that I have given myself
so I can orient myself in this world. But I feel
from everything that I've understood intellectually
and spiritually, that this is just some type
of school that we visit. It's just a school and
we're here to learn, but it doesn't represent
ultimate reality. That actually resonates with
me a lot, what you just shared. A training ground.
It's like almost like an academy or training
ground. But to me, it's like I used to box when
I was in college at box. But then as a senior,
I was the manager. So I had boxers that I was
training to box. And it's almost like, you know,
they go in, they fight around, and then they
come back to the ropes. And then the manager
says, okay, look. They're working you clockwise.
You need to work into their jab. You're actually
talking them through what's going on in the ring,
and then ding, fight again, right? So I feel
that sometimes, and that's maybe a stupid analogy,
but it's almost like we're here in this deep
density, this earth space. We're experiencing,
you know, the stupid neighbor, the guy that cut
me off and took off my fender. Somebody stole
my cell phone. Yeah, somebody stole my cell phone.
All of this stuff. And then we have to go, ding,
rounds over, go to sleep. And then we have this,
we go out of this dimension and try to figure
it all out. Like maybe this is our chance to
go meet our future self, meet our ancestors,
meet. Our departed loved ones. Yeah, our spiritual
guides, the gods, the goddesses, whoever. Maybe
our past lives. Maybe we had this situation before
and I can go and say, okay, look, I don't want
to keep relearning this lesson, but this guy
pisses me off. How do I deal with it? And then
your dream state says, look, just forgive them.
Like they're going through stuff that you don't
even know about. Just forgive them and get on
with the program. Ding, next round. You wake
up and it's like, oh, okay. So I think... Maybe
there's some answers we do get from dreams. But
we don't really remember our dreams with any
great clarity so that whatever the answer is,
is useful in our subconscious mind, not perhaps
our everyday mind. I think that's a good insight
because it's not the cognitive, it's the experience.
Because, I mean, I can explain to you all day
exactly what it's like to jump in warm spring
water. volcanic warm spring water. I can explain
it to the detail, but until you actually immerse
yourself and feel it and experience it, then
it's nothing. I think that the dream state, and
this is, I think, you know, I'm a mystic. I'm
a mystic who thinks. You're a thinker who's got
some mysticism. Yeah, I think I'm a hybrid of
those two. Yeah, you're biased more towards thinking.
I'm biased a little bit more towards feeling.
Maybe that's not a fair comparison, but I'm just
saying that I tend to see things more from an
empathetic or a mystical point of view, an esoteric
view. You're a very powerful thinker, so your
interpretations of your dreams are going to be
very in your brain. You're going to wake up and
try to make sense of them. I don't make sense
of them. I'm grateful for the experience. Yeah,
I don't even fret about it, though. I just have
faith that something good occurred there. I have
faith that whoever created this system did a
really good job, that it's not some botched experiment,
and I'm doing fine. There's other things that
I would probably rather think about than trying
to analyze a dream. Although that incident I
had two nights ago when I dreamed about my dog
being hit by a truck, that I chose to interpret
as a forewarning, get her in the house before
the trucks arrived. Yes, beautiful. So that was
maybe some utility in that. But I do trust that
they are profound. We're all doing it. We're
all going somewhere. And I seal it with faith.
Do you know there's people who actually, when
we look at the frequencies of our life, the Gaia
frequency, there's some people who believe that
we are in and out of consciousness. Right now,
like since you and I have been talking, we're
in and out of this dimension. Eight times per
second. It's synchronized with Gaia. I don't
know. I don't know either. But it seems to me
like we're almost, our true state is one of the
subconscious. That's our true state. And then
we have this. the state this this that we're
in now this synthetic state where we're so -called
awake but this is this is this is the fake i
always i think i put it in my one of my books
um we're more dead now than we'll ever be this
is this is as dead as we'll ever be wow so we're
not going to die but this is a dense environment
a training ground for us to become more than
we were but i i absolutely i'm certain in a way
which is weird but whatever is going on elsewhere
is our real reality that this is just so this
is a fascinating way to wrap this up what you
just described was what we started with this
is basically we're living like a prisoner war
camp where where we're here we have this this
is something pretty austere environment yeah
well for you and i we i we're doing pretty well
because a lot of people on this planet their
life is miserable right now absolutely awful
But is it any less a training ground for them
than it is for us? We don't know what's going
on in there. I mean, I trust that it's all going
on with absolute precision and for a reason.
And I've kind of blessed the mess in that way,
but I have no idea. Great. Wrap us up. Closing
thoughts. Oh, I'm done. I'm ready for a nap.
You're ready for a nap. Hey, y 'all. We don't
have the answers. We just thought we'd have a
good conversation. It's been good while I've
enjoyed it. Yeah. I hope you have a great week.
Thanks a lot for stopping by the studio today.
Sweet dreams. Be well. Soul Decodes, a feature
presentation, airs every Friday on the Earth
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