1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,520 Hello and welcome back to the Once Upon a Trip podcast. 2 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:07,080 I am back with Marco. 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:07,920 Yay. 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:08,960 Yay. 5 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,360 And today we're going to be diving into a topic 6 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,360 that I especially have been very interested 7 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:15,720 in talking about. 8 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:20,720 And that topic is online privacy and data protection, 9 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,680 culture shocks when it comes to Europe and the US. 10 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,540 I thought of this idea when I noticed 11 00:00:27,540 --> 00:00:31,280 that there are some European content creators who hide 12 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,800 their face on social media, even if they're well known. 13 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,620 Also, there is a German rapper called Crow 14 00:00:37,620 --> 00:00:38,680 that I am aware of. 15 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,960 He hides his face with a panda mask. 16 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,440 Of all people you mentioned, you mentioned this dude? 17 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:44,800 OK. 18 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:45,840 Yes, I had to. 19 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,440 So you get the point. 20 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,640 I have just become very curious about why Europeans appear 21 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,800 to be more private when it comes to showing their face 22 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,160 on social media and on the internet. 23 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:00,800 And I know that there's a counter to this, 24 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:01,920 which we'll get into. 25 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,480 If you happen to meet someone from another country 26 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,880 and you want to post something with their face 27 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,840 on social media, then there are really big precautions, 28 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,280 so to speak, that you need to be aware of. 29 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,840 And I think all of the things that we'll be diving into today 30 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,720 will be very helpful in being aware of when 31 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,560 it comes to social media presence and a number 32 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,600 of other little things. 33 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,920 So are you excited, Marco, to be diving into this? 34 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,760 I can barely sit down. 35 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,240 I see that excitement in your face. 36 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,960 And I can just feel it, right? 37 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:40,520 Just feel it. 38 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,400 I don't hide my emotions. 39 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:43,240 No, just kidding. 40 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,720 Yes, I'm very excited. 41 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:45,720 I am too. 42 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,960 We hope you enjoy the episode and that you take a little bit 43 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:50,840 of some nuggets away. 44 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,680 And before we get started, I do want to say and remind you 45 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,360 to please follow and subscribe to the podcast 46 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,520 if you really do love the new episodes. 47 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,800 We do appreciate the support and it really means a lot to us. 48 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:04,880 So here we go. 49 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,120 Let's start this off by having a little bit of an overview 50 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,640 on the European perspective and specifically in this case, 51 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:18,640 the German perspective of online privacy and data protection 52 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,760 and how Europeans feel about their personal data 53 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,040 and privacy online. 54 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,480 So Marco, what can you say about the European perspective 55 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,960 of hiding your face on social media 56 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:34,240 and these types of things? 57 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:35,640 Well, it's not just showing your face 58 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:37,760 or it's not just online in general, 59 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,280 the way we deal with our personal data, 60 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,000 so both information and also pictures, 61 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,400 is a little bit more cautious and more circumspect, 62 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,800 more on a need to know basis, you know, the whole history, 63 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,280 the way things are just set up. 64 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,200 I think it's just a cultural thing. 65 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:01,200 They tend to be more suspicious of anyone and anything 66 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,760 the time after on the Eastern side was much better. 67 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:04,600 With the Soviet Union. 68 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,160 Yeah, that may have been even, 69 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:08,920 at least on the Eastern side of Germany, 70 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:10,320 may have been even worse 71 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,280 because that was a total surveillance kind of setup 72 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,360 with, you know, the magnitude of which was almost unfathomable 73 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,560 because they basically had like a, yeah, 74 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,920 basically like a spy in every, you know, on every block, 75 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:25,960 in every like apartment building, basically. 76 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,440 So yeah, maybe that's where it comes from, 77 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,840 but still I would even think in the West of Germany, 78 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,240 people don't think much differently. 79 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,960 It's just a different mindset. 80 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,040 And in America, people don't think twice about it, 81 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,240 or at least most people, 82 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,040 and just accept, you know, that it's the way it is 83 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:47,040 and that's how the free market works here and yeah. 84 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,880 It is a little bit sad how commercial interests 85 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,480 are prioritized over personal protection. 86 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:55,320 Yeah, definitely. 87 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,160 In that case, that's really sad. 88 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,480 That is a fair observation, yes. 89 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,720 So like we were saying earlier, there is a counter to this, 90 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,320 and it's kind of sad and embarrassing to be honest, 91 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,360 because I think a lot of Americans don't think twice. 92 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,600 They think and like to believe that companies 93 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,440 use their consumer data in their best interest, 94 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,240 or they also believe that, 95 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,080 oh, well, if I can get something for free, 96 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,280 if I get a discount on this product, 97 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:26,880 if I can get access to this website for a lower price, 98 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,920 if that means selling my data, 99 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,720 essentially to big corporations and companies, 100 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,200 then sadly, there are so many people 101 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,360 who are willing to make that sacrifice and do that. 102 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,640 I think we also just have more of a hands-off approach 103 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,240 when it comes to our trustworthiness 104 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,920 and in terms of our comfort in sharing our data 105 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,240 on social media. 106 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,480 I mean, and also you live in a system here 107 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,640 where even when you are cautious 108 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,440 and even when you don't agree with those practices, 109 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,520 you can't really escape from it. 110 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,240 I always knew that America was much more lax 111 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:03,320 when it comes to data protection, 112 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,080 but it really hit me when I moved here. 113 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,280 Within two months, I had arrived to the US. 114 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:10,400 Prior to that, as far as the US was concerned, 115 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,720 I didn't exist, right? 116 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,920 And I was a new guy here, started out, 117 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,920 and within two months, my mailbox was packed. 118 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,040 Every week, I got ads upon ads upon ads, 119 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,240 not just general ads, personal ads. 120 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:28,680 With my name, my address, 121 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,400 and even in the ad, in the letters, it says, 122 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,400 hey, Marco, blah, blah, blah, blah. 123 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,720 And I just thought to myself, who the heck are you? 124 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,120 I mean, it's not, you know, in Europe, 125 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,800 they also, as best as they can, they try to sell your data, 126 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:45,160 but here, you have to really make an effort 127 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,280 and jump through hoops to keep somebody from doing that. 128 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:51,680 On an app, you have to go into menus and whatever, 129 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,880 and find the setting that specifically says, 130 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,680 don't allow the owner of the app or this company, 131 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,720 blah, blah, blah, to sell to third party. 132 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,520 By default, they just do, and it's just what it is here. 133 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,880 Based on research, there is this one general regulation 134 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,320 that covers all EU countries, not every country in Europe, 135 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,400 but all 27 EU countries, 136 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,960 not so much Eastern non-EU countries. 137 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,360 This is a federal law in the EU 138 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,240 that is something known as the GDPR, 139 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,520 the General Data Protection Regulation. 140 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,840 This is a federal law very stringent 141 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:30,080 on data protection and consumer protection. 142 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,000 If companies violate this law, 143 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,680 they can be fined up to 20 million euros, 144 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,080 or 4% of the company's annual global turnover rate. 145 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:41,920 Bargain. 146 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,000 Yeah, right? 147 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,320 The problem with that law is the kind of the enforceability, 148 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,120 because the companies that tend to violate that 149 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,240 are companies that are not headquartered in Europe anyway. 150 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,960 For example, Amazon has violated that. 151 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,400 Apple, Microsoft, all the companies that are, 152 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,400 especially the ones that are headquartered in the United States, 153 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,320 with jurisdiction and enforceability, 154 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,320 it's not as easy to really enforce that. 155 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,520 One of the most astounding facts of this entire situation 156 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,720 that I at least found is how much more heavily 157 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,560 you are fined in Europe for violating data protection laws. 158 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,000 So here in the US, and we are not experts, 159 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,040 so this is just going off of research, 160 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,080 from what we have found in the US, 161 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,000 if you violate a privacy law, 162 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,720 and usually these are very industry-specific, 163 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,440 sector-specific, and they vary state by state, 164 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 if you violate one of these usually, 165 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,920 the penalty is much lower. 166 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,480 So for example, the range of the fine 167 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,720 can be anywhere from 140 US dollars 168 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,880 to a little bit over 2.1 million dollars. 169 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:56,280 Whereas in Europe, you can be fined up to 20 million euros. 170 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,760 Like talk about a massive, massive difference. 171 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,760 Well, if a European company would violate that, 172 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:04,880 yeah, there's no chance. 173 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,440 But any offshore company, that makes it a little bit harder. 174 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,520 The reason the US doesn't have a law like this 175 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,960 is because of political interests 176 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,840 tending to cause gridlock in Congress, 177 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,800 and different interests clashing gets nothing passed. 178 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,400 So it's really almost impossible to make one big law, 179 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,160 data protection law, that is a one-size-fits-all, 180 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,480 that applies to all 50 states. 181 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,560 So that's kind of the problem that we have. 182 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:35,000 I don't like how there isn't one law 183 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,480 that covers all sectors and all interests, 184 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,000 but that's just how it is. 185 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,560 Only 20 out of 50 US states are covered 186 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:46,840 by some sort of comprehensive data protection law, 187 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,280 which is not even half. 188 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:49,720 So it is crazy. 189 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,720 Yeah, the thing with America in general 190 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,040 is that the United States is a federal republic, 191 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:56,200 like Germany is too. 192 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,320 But the difference is the 50 states here have so much more. 193 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,560 Power. 194 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:02,360 Individually. 195 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,320 Individually, and can regulate so many more things 196 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,080 than Germany could do. 197 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,080 The European Union is set up in a way 198 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,800 where they say European law will always supersede national law. 199 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,000 But there are many issues, not just on data protection, 200 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,240 where some countries are starting to push back and say, 201 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:22,560 no, this is none of your business. 202 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,440 This is a domestic policy concern. 203 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,800 It's not Brussels' place to mandate us what to do. 204 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,440 But that's a whole different discussion. 205 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,320 Let's talk more about social media. 206 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,400 From my personal experience as an American 207 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,880 and my own interaction with Europeans, 208 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,080 both from my travels and just on friendships, 209 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,480 I have noticed that many Europeans will tell me, 210 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,200 you should ask other Europeans for permission 211 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,800 before you post their face on anything on social media. 212 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,480 One time I was in Budapest 213 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,640 and I met this girl from the Netherlands. 214 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,760 And at the time I didn't think twice about it, 215 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,840 I was taking some pictures with her 216 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,520 and I noticed that every time I took a picture with her in it, 217 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,760 she would either turn her face 218 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,080 or she would literally cover it like this. 219 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,960 And I didn't think about why at the time, but yeah. 220 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,560 There are people that are more protective than others, 221 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:17,760 but yeah, generally the mindset is definitely different. 222 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,160 And many people also, which I understand, 223 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,600 I think I would do that too, 224 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,800 especially people that have small children, 225 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,600 sometimes on pictures they cover up the face of the children 226 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,120 or any other maybe person that they didn't ask 227 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,680 or they know, hey, you know, they're a little bit cautious. 228 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:37,520 I do understand why people will blur out baby faces 229 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,200 and children's faces. 230 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,880 That I do understand because that's also a tactic 231 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,000 to protect children from getting kidnapped 232 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,960 or subject to human trafficking. 233 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,920 I do understand that, but if you are an adult 234 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,840 and you are willingly an influencer 235 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,160 or you're a content creator, I just really, I don't know, 236 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,080 I guess I just wonder why would you not show your face 237 00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,600 or why would you cover up your name? 238 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:00,640 I would say this way, 239 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,440 where Americans tend to care too little, 240 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,960 Europeans tend to be almost paranoid about it. 241 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,040 Give some examples of that. 242 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,440 Well, the thing is there are people, 243 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,920 like the people that make it a point to cover their faces 244 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,520 and do this and that and don't share anything 245 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,560 and delete their browser history or use VPN all the time 246 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:21,840 that are making it a point that, 247 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,560 hey, I don't wanna share any information. 248 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:28,560 I mean, they are enslaving themselves to that notion 249 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,800 that, hey, there are vultures out there 250 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,240 that wanna hurt me and that wanna take my information. 251 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,680 So there are people that, especially in Europe, 252 00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:39,600 that are very, almost paranoid, I would say. 253 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,720 Where I'm like, okay, you know, 254 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,880 if you really wanted to live that life, 255 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,560 you would have to live off the grid in the woods somewhere. 256 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:47,240 That's not the world we live in. 257 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,200 But yes, that is the thing 258 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,080 where people are just crazy about it. 259 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:52,880 Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I cannot share this. 260 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,880 Somebody is watching me, I cannot have that. 261 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,480 And Facebook is a good example 262 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,440 because especially in the heyday of Facebook, 263 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,960 so around 2011, 2012, maybe, 264 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,680 depending on how elaborate somebody had created their profile 265 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:08,160 as far as information posted, 266 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,920 I think Mark Zuckerberg collected $500 per profile 267 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,480 in selling data, which at the time, 268 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:15,960 I don't know how many millions of accounts there were. 269 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,680 So crazy. I was not aware of that. 270 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,720 And I was very surprised when they first introduced that. 271 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,000 I don't know what they called it. 272 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,680 They changed, at some point, they changed the profile 273 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:26,880 where basically it was kind of a timeline 274 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,040 where you could also in hindsight post something and say, 275 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:35,000 you know, this happened in 2006, I don't know, graduation 276 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,320 or I got married. 277 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,360 Work experience. 278 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,200 Whatever. 279 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,720 And you could basically publicly 280 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,520 create a timeline of your life. 281 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,640 When they introduced this, I was thinking at the time, 282 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,360 like who would ever use it but come to find out Americans, 283 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,760 including older generation, 284 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,560 they would share their entire lives. 285 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,000 Pictures, pictures, pictures, pictures from decades, 286 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,160 their entire life documented. 287 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,400 And to me, that was crazy. Absolutely crazy. 288 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,880 Now people don't think twice about sharing 289 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,240 very personal experience. 290 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,400 And it's not just travel. 291 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,480 I mean, it's not just like the Instagram posts, 292 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,680 but your not just date of birth, anniversary, wedding, 293 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:17,320 the birth of their children, 294 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,040 anything you could possibly think of. 295 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,440 Chronologically in order and just, 296 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,240 I mean, it's cool for yourself, 297 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,480 but I wouldn't use a public platform like Facebook 298 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:29,480 to do that. 299 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,160 Well, then where else would you store that information? 300 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,120 You don't need a public platform for that. 301 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,000 Either you... 302 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,240 But it's convenient. 303 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,560 Yeah, and that's, you know, the American is talking. 304 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:41,800 Okay. 305 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,120 It's convenient. 306 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,720 No, I'm speaking in the perspective of many, 307 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,600 not just Americans, we can also include Canada 308 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,120 in this North America. 309 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,320 Okay, but yeah, because it's convenient. 310 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,040 Yeah, so what it's convenient. 311 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,680 It's still not worth just disclosing 312 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:58,560 this kind of information so easily, 313 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,200 because there will be people out there 314 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:01,640 that take advantage of it, 315 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,240 either marketers or even people that, you know, 316 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:05,080 even criminals. 317 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,520 In the school exchange that I participated in, 318 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:08,880 that was in 2011. 319 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,600 And I remember, you know, coming here, 320 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,720 it was a matter of days, one, two, three days in maybe, 321 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,800 I'm coming home to my host family 322 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,120 and I'm turning on the computer 323 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,720 and looking at Facebook. 324 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,040 And I was shocked at the time because, 325 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,000 so in 2011, I was 16 years old. 326 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,440 And so were you. 327 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:27,280 But... 328 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,120 Yeah, so was I. 329 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,280 So in Germany, that was really at that time, 330 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,400 a platform for young people, usually. 331 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,000 And here, there were so many parents of other students 332 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,760 were on Facebook and not only on Facebook, 333 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,000 but very, very, very active on Facebook. 334 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,720 So I came here, we met, we, maybe we went somewhere, 335 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,920 somewhere downtown Atlanta, some day trip, whatever. 336 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,920 And I come home and on the same day, 337 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,920 I have dozens of friend requests 338 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,880 from not just the other students, but also their parents. 339 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,920 They posted all the photos that they took on that day, 340 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,320 not only posted, but also tagged everybody. 341 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,880 While I was thinking at the time, for one thing, why, 342 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,520 and how do they have the time to even do that? 343 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,160 So that was a bit of a culture shock now, 344 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:11,560 but that was kind of the heyday of Facebook. 345 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,720 I think it's maybe not as bad anymore. 346 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,440 But that to me was, that was crazy. 347 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,320 Like the parents, I would have understood 348 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,240 if the people our age would have done that, 349 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,560 but the parents, like the mom of somebody, crazy. 350 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,640 And so German and European parents back in 2011 351 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,120 were not like that with Facebook? 352 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,120 At least the people that I knew, 353 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,200 Facebook was not a thing really to them. 354 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,360 Facebook conquered that cohort later. 355 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,640 What pieces of advice would you give to Americans 356 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,560 or to other people visiting Europe or people 357 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,280 who are interacting with Europeans? 358 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,520 What are some things that we should know 359 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,680 before we post any pictures with Europeans? 360 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:54,880 So you don't have to beat around the bush. 361 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,640 You can just say, hey, you know, I would like, 362 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,640 would you mind my posting this picture or video or whatever? 363 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,120 Or would you mind if I linked you and whatever? 364 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,280 So it's just a very straight up question. 365 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:08,120 Don't just do it. 366 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,480 You know, some people go with the flow and don't care. 367 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,040 Those people exist too. 368 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,680 But you never know. 369 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,560 I mean, do you find that your friends 370 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,000 and other people you know in Germany, 371 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,760 do you think that most of them are skeptical 372 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,440 of data protection laws and sharing stuff on social media? 373 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:25,920 I will say, I think in Germany, 374 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,880 it's much, at least the people I know, 375 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,840 I think it's a generational thing. 376 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,240 The older the people, 377 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,400 the more suspicious and protective they are. 378 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,560 Younger people, especially people 379 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,280 that are even younger than us, 380 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,240 they don't know any better because like young people 381 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,840 these days are basically being raised by their phones, 382 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:43,680 sadly enough. 383 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,560 I think Germany and Europe from time to time 384 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,560 will adopt more and more the American way, 385 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,640 especially now with this whole social media 386 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,200 and influencer kind of trend. 387 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,600 Sharing things is a source of income for many people. 388 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,560 So I think it's, we're getting closer and closer 389 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,680 to kind of the American way of things, I think. 390 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,160 That's my observation and prediction. 391 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,760 Even here, older people are totally different about it. 392 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,600 They just, they share and it's okay to them. 393 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,880 People will tend to be more protective of their data. 394 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,760 But maybe we can touch on applying for a job 395 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,320 because that's where it becomes almost ironic. 396 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,880 Americans, when they apply for a job, 397 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,040 all of a sudden become very protective 398 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,200 of their personal data. 399 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,640 Whereas Europeans, I feel, do not as much. 400 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,120 Yeah, in America, when you apply for a job, 401 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:44,120 the resume that you hand in is very, very focused 402 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,240 on your work experience, of course. 403 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,920 But there isn't much to it other than the name 404 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,960 and maybe phone number and address. 405 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,680 Whereas in Germany, where we apply with a CV, 406 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:58,520 in a traditional application, 407 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,680 basically the head of that CV has your name, 408 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,200 usually a photograph of yourself, 409 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,800 a professionally taken photograph. 410 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,600 There are photographers. 411 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:09,840 It's like part of their business 412 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,760 to take job application pictures. 413 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,600 That is the biggest no-no in an American resume. 414 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:17,440 No. 415 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,520 And then it doesn't stop there. 416 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,920 Then date of birth, place of birth, 417 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,440 marital status, including how many children you have, 418 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,560 and citizenship. 419 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:29,880 So, and then Americans are like, 420 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,920 oh my God, that is so, that is so not okay. 421 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:34,840 You cannot do that. 422 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,400 Yeah, but you post every bit of that all day long 423 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,160 on social media, but applying for a job, 424 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,080 oh my God, no, a potential employer must not know that. 425 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,400 The reason why you should absolutely not include 426 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,200 a picture of yourself when applying for a job 427 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,920 is because it can be used in a discriminatory way 428 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,400 when employers are selecting a candidate for a position. 429 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,000 They can look at you and if you are very attractive, 430 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,880 you can have an unfair advantage. 431 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,640 That is why we don't do that. 432 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,880 The picture thing in Germany, it has become less, 433 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,560 it's still a thing, but also for that very reason, 434 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,000 yeah, some people are not doing it anymore, 435 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,680 and it's also accepted not to do it anymore, 436 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:13,520 but traditionally, yes. 437 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,160 But to your point, if you have your entire life 438 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,240 on social media, also not just the Facebooks 439 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,720 and Instagrams of the world, but also LinkedIn, for example, 440 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,960 the employer will Google your name anyway. 441 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,600 But that takes more effort on the employer's part. 442 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:28,520 It depends, okay. 443 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,360 So they might not wanna do that. 444 00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:31,360 It depends also on your name. 445 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,840 If you have a very distinct name, then that's easy. 446 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,640 If your name is John Smith, which is not a name, 447 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,360 but more like a category, then yes, 448 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:42,520 it's gonna be hard to find. 449 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,080 But anybody who has somewhat of a distinct name 450 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,600 will have that information public anyway. 451 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,160 So you may as well just put it on your resume as well. 452 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,080 That's my German mind. 453 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,440 I was very surprised when I first saw kind of a sample 454 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,440 of an American resume. 455 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,560 I looked at it and I was like, I thought, oh, so that's it? 456 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,400 The employer will not even know how old you are. 457 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,800 You can infer based on looking, okay, 458 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,680 when somebody graduated from college or whatever, 459 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,640 but it never specifically says date of birth. 460 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,000 So basically somebody could apply 461 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,680 with being 20 years old or 40 years old, 462 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,000 in a weird case. 463 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,080 One thing I remember you had mentioned to me earlier 464 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,320 is how in Germany, if you take, 465 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,680 or I guess if reporters take videos of cars or of anything, 466 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,920 the license plates are covered. 467 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,480 Again, a little bit ironic. 468 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,400 So let's say you have a dash cam in your car. 469 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,760 If you were to publish that dash cam footage in Germany, 470 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,640 you will always have to blur out any faces 471 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,560 and any license plate numbers. 472 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,360 So is that officially a law? 473 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,200 Yeah, that is definitely a law. 474 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,200 Anybody who publishes dash cam footage 475 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,840 will have to blur out all of that. 476 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,240 So what happens if they don't? 477 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,480 Well, you could get fined, 478 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,800 or if you post something somewhere, 479 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,880 people could say, this has to be taken down. 480 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,920 And for example, a platform like YouTube would have 481 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,160 to take it down, especially if it's posted 482 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,040 by a German account, 483 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,960 because then they have jurisdiction, I think. 484 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,200 The whole thing, there's so many loopholes, 485 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,840 because if I did that from an American account, 486 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,680 that law wouldn't necessarily apply. 487 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,160 But anyway, journalists on the other hand, 488 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,600 if you go out and film a documentary 489 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,600 and it's a certain public space, 490 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,320 then all of a sudden it's okay, and it doesn't make sense. 491 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:31,160 It doesn't make sense. 492 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,160 I mean, maybe lawyers could speak to that better, 493 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:34,800 but it is kind of weird. 494 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,760 A journalist has more rights in that regard. 495 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:39,960 I don't know how else to describe it, 496 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,200 because also with a license plate, 497 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,760 I get the face thing, but a license plate number, 498 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,160 at least in Germany, unless you work for the government, 499 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,280 you will not be able to actually find out 500 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:53,760 whose car that is. 501 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,000 And it's public on the car. 502 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,960 That's what the license plate is for. 503 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,960 So it's odd. 504 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,000 So what you were saying about the GDPR, this law, 505 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,880 being kind of convoluted 506 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,240 and being in a different jurisdiction and it not applying. 507 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,040 The thing is, from what I read from the law, 508 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,560 this law must apply to any website 509 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,440 where a European is using it. 510 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,920 So even if it's outside of Europe, 511 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,600 it's supposed to apply to that case. 512 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,600 Yes. How do you enforce that? 513 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,800 I very much question the feasibility of that, 514 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,680 because the internet just works in a way 515 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,520 where the internet doesn't know country borders really. 516 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,000 I mean, yes, there are IP addresses 517 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,320 and there is a certain way of tracking things, 518 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,200 but at the end of the day, especially a big tech company 519 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,040 that has state of the art knowledge 520 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,560 will always be ahead of the law. 521 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,360 And AI will be the biggest challenge of our time, 522 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,880 especially for anybody in this kind of field, 523 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,320 in this kind of data protection field. 524 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,600 It will not be feasible to enforce certain laws, 525 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,200 not even in Europe with European companies, 526 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,360 but much less with American or Chinese companies. 527 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,960 Yeah, I mean, the only huge concern would be identity theft, 528 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,080 but that's more so with credit cards 529 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,840 and financial and medical health data, 530 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,120 which under our law called HIPAA, 531 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,680 medical and health information are protected. 532 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,440 And yeah, people are very skeptical 533 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,360 in terms of sharing financial information. 534 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:25,200 That is a good point. 535 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,040 That's different. 536 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,320 That is, yeah, but still that is a good point, 537 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,120 because I tend to mock this country's kind of banking system. 538 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:34,640 When it comes to banking here, 539 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:35,960 there's always like a middleman, 540 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,200 like there's PayPal and Cell and all those service providers. 541 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,800 For some reason, banking is very cumbersome here 542 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,760 because of people being afraid of data breaches and stuff. 543 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,880 With credit cards, like credit card numbers online 544 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,400 and storing that information, 545 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,840 I would argue that most Americans and myself included, 546 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,120 I do not store my credit card information anywhere. 547 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:02,240 Like that, no. 548 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,720 Because credit, the whole credit card concept here is insane. 549 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,800 On the one hand, Americans don't wanna share 550 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,840 any bank account information, 551 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,400 but then you can go with your credit card 552 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,120 and no matter the amount of money 553 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:18,920 that you will have a transaction in, 554 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,960 you don't even need a PIN. 555 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,040 I can give you my credit card 556 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,360 and whatever the money that my credit card is good for, 557 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,240 you can just go shopping with it 558 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,160 and nobody will even think about it. 559 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,080 Well, no, now there are fraud alerts 560 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,120 and companies that pay attention to that. 561 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,960 On a general note, yeah, but still, 562 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,840 the chance of somebody abusing your credit card 563 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,440 and stealing money from you 564 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,880 is so much greater here than it is in Germany 565 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,200 because in Germany, you go 566 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,480 and you always have to punch in your PIN. 567 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,840 So are PINs required for credit cards? 568 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:54,680 Yes. Yes. 569 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,500 Okay. Yes. 570 00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:57,080 In fact, recently I just went to Germany 571 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,400 and I have a, not only personal credit cards, 572 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,920 but also company credit card 573 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,400 and at the hotel and also gas station and stuff. 574 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,120 More than one time, the cashier behind the counter 575 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:10,600 was like, wait a second, what just happened? 576 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,120 He put in the card and it was like, 577 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,680 I don't know, 80 euros or something. 578 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,520 And nothing. 579 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,600 I said, yeah, okay, transaction approved. 580 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:19,440 And then a receipt. 581 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,440 Yeah, and receipt comes out. 582 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,040 And more than one time, the guys were like, 583 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,600 wait a second, that can't be. 584 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,080 There was no PIN, there was no nothing, 585 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,620 not even a signature required. 586 00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:30,460 And I said, yeah, this is an American credit card. 587 00:25:30,460 --> 00:25:32,280 And what was that person's response? 588 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,920 And they were like, what are you, it's like, yeah. 589 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,540 So it's, oh my God, that's crazy. 590 00:25:36,540 --> 00:25:38,800 That has happened to me more than one time. 591 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,000 That actually is a good point 592 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,000 because I've completely forgotten about that aspect 593 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,800 of financial security. 594 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,840 It's just interesting that the priorities 595 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,640 that both sides of the pond have. 596 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,680 You would think, okay, so Europe is all about it 597 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,880 and America is like, hmm. 598 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,880 About finance, like a credit card? 599 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:56,840 Not a protection general. 600 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,680 It's not just information, but also financial information. 601 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,160 If so, if you come here and you get a credit card 602 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,920 or get an American bank account, yeah, 603 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,040 watch your credit card. 604 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,680 Here, if I lost my credit card 605 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,440 and I wouldn't notice it for some reason, 606 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,260 somebody could cause a lot of damage. 607 00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:14,800 Whereas in Germany, yes, they can find the credit card, 608 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,920 but without a pin, there's only so much you can do. 609 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,640 Even now, online shopping, 610 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,520 most German credit cards, when you go online shopping, 611 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,800 you go, like, let's say you order something off of Amazon 612 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,000 or something or some other online store, 613 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,840 at least for the first time to activate the card. 614 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,840 I think sometimes it goes directly to a setup 615 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,800 where you have to, I think you have to put in 616 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,400 your online banking password or your something. 617 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,920 It's not just like, okay, credit card 618 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:41,800 and you're good to go. 619 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,560 Oftentimes they make it a point that 620 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,160 even the transaction online, 621 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,280 there's like a barrier in between to double check. 622 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,080 And here it's just like, oh, $100 here, oh, here you go. 623 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,640 No, that's not true. 624 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,480 Yes, it is. 625 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:55,300 The thing is even, 626 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:57,080 because I've had this happen to me before. 627 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,200 So if your credit card number gets compromised 628 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,320 and charges have already been charged, 629 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,440 then your credit card company will basically 630 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,480 undo those charges once you report, okay, this person, 631 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,360 like this, that I didn't, one of these things. 632 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,400 They have a very elaborate surveillance in place, yes. 633 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,160 But they wouldn't need it to that extent 634 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,200 if the credit card would have other safety measures, 635 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,280 i.e. a pin in place. 636 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,480 Yeah, but if it's online on an account. 637 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,880 Still though, I know a story of somebody 638 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,920 where data protection works, I give you that, 639 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,760 where people surveil it and that's even years ago. 640 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,320 So I know a story of a guy who was in New York City 641 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,680 during 9-11 and the guy, he was from here, from Georgia. 642 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,120 And the guy couldn't fly back because there were no planes 643 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,720 and he took a rental car and he drove down towards Georgia 644 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,480 and like three states in, at some, gassing up the car, 645 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,920 the card was declined and he called the credit card 646 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,080 and then they said, yeah, your card must've been stolen. 647 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,200 Number was compromised. 648 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,560 Your card was used in so and so many states 649 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,440 in that amount of time, that's not possible. 650 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,720 And then he said, yeah, no, actually I'm driving 651 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,600 and I'm really making strides here to go back home. 652 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,720 And then, oh, okay. 653 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,840 So then they, somebody was like, hey, wait a second. 654 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,400 So I don't know, New York and I don't know, Pennsylvania 655 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,600 and many states and they said, hey, something is off here. 656 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,920 Yeah, so we're not completely- 657 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,280 Yes, but- 658 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,640 Like careless about it. 659 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,160 But again, you need, you have to have a system 660 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,280 that is much more elaborate than it needs to be 661 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,160 if there were other measures in place, but okay. 662 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,160 What about for medical information and health information? 663 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,160 So like I had said earlier, 664 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,200 so health information is very well protected here, 665 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,960 medical information that you don't want companies 666 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,240 to know about necessarily. 667 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,720 What about in Germany and about in Europe? 668 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,160 Yes, very, very protected. 669 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,120 So, I mean, and I think we've talked about it before. 670 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,080 So once, when you call in sick 671 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,000 and your doctor issues you that note, 672 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,320 the copy that the employer get will not even disclose 673 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:02,520 the condition, the diagnosis. 674 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,120 Before I started working, 675 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,680 I did an internship at the health insurance company 676 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,880 and it was interesting, my job, 677 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,200 the stuff I had to do as an intern, 678 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,240 which was very superficial kind of stuff. 679 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,880 Whenever I had to go into somebody's file 680 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,520 for some piece of information, it was monitored. 681 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,120 Like, and then people would have scrutinized and said, 682 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,760 hey, what was the reason for you to look into that? 683 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,600 This is sensible information. 684 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,400 So even on that public level, if you work at a company 685 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,800 that has access to sensitive information, it is monitored. 686 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,720 And even employees are being monitored that, hey, 687 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,400 they only look up on an absolute need to know basis. 688 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,040 There are safety measures even in the organization in place 689 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,000 that not everybody can just open up a file 690 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,440 and look things up. 691 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,240 Yeah, and there were even a couple of celebrities, 692 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,080 for example, that had even an additional safeguard 693 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,080 where you could not, where somebody authorized 694 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,840 a very high manager would have even had access to that file. 695 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,240 But yeah, medical information is extremely protected 696 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,920 to the point where if there was a criminal case 697 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,440 or something, a doctor, I think they need a court warrant 698 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,960 to enable a doctor to speak about a certain 699 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,000 medical condition of somebody. 700 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,800 Or you need to be married, or there needs to be 701 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,040 a letter of authority in place for a third party 702 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,480 to get and manage certain information. 703 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,400 Yeah, it's extremely protected. 704 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,160 That is at least one area that I can see North America 705 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,040 and specifically the United States and Europe 706 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,800 and Germany specifically in Marco's case, 707 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,520 where we do have some common understanding. 708 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,360 I think so too. 709 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,560 So that is good. 710 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:43,640 That is, yeah. 711 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,480 So yeah, and then the biggest thing here, 712 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,960 and that's also just the system, 713 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,600 the core of anybody's personal information 714 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,920 is one's social security number. 715 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,240 Yes, yes. 716 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,640 Which is crazy because the social security number 717 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,360 and we have something like that too, 718 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,360 should only be for your public retirement money later on, 719 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,200 but the social security number is used to monitor 720 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,160 each and every one, including their credit worthiness 721 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,320 and their spending behavior and everything. 722 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,480 And if somebody gets your social security number, 723 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,720 you're screwed because then people, 724 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,400 they can go out and just pretend that they're you 725 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,160 and order something online or any kind of contract 726 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,000 and if they have your social security number, 727 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,600 then they will just, it will be very credible to anybody 728 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,400 saying, oh yeah, that's really that person 729 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,440 because that social security number checks out, 730 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,200 that's well, that's used the name John Smith again, XYZ. 731 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,960 So your social security number is a nine digit number, 732 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,520 typically three digits, two digits, then four digits. 733 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,520 And typically we only ever tell people or institutions 734 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,680 the last four digits of that number. 735 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,920 The other numbers we absolutely should not share. 736 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,040 So for anybody coming to the US to live and work, 737 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,640 you will get a social security number 738 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,640 because otherwise you cannot be legally employed anywhere 739 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,680 and otherwise you can also not, you can't do anything. 740 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,520 You cannot go out and buy a car. 741 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,880 Sometimes you can't even get like a phone plan. 742 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,120 Usually any contract, 743 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,440 it will involve your social security number. 744 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,200 So if somebody ever sends you an email or calls you 745 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,120 and asks for your social security number, 746 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,080 that is a hundred percent a scam. 747 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,080 You must never disclose your social security number. 748 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,520 Ever. Big no, no. 749 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,560 Americans are fine with publishing anything else, 750 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,480 but social security number, that's where they draw the line. 751 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,640 That is absolutely critical. 752 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,200 Yeah, you absolutely need to protect that number. 753 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,320 You can go out and take pictures of anybody 754 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,920 and publish them, it's fine, all good, 755 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,840 but social security number and also banking information, 756 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,120 that's where people are like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. 757 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,200 Yeah, it's a big no. 758 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,200 Neither system I think is perfect. 759 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,880 Both of them need improvement. 760 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,560 Maybe in years to come, there will be some strides 761 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,320 in making those improvements happen, 762 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,120 but for the time being, we think it's just important 763 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,680 to be aware of these things when traveling 764 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,640 or moving to either place. 765 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,440 Anything that's manmade is not perfect. 766 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,840 We wanna thank you so much 767 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,920 for tuning into today's episode. 768 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,520 As always, we look forward to being back here 769 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,080 with you very soon. 770 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,960 Happy data protecting everybody. 771 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,880 Happy data protecting. 772 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,160 See you soon. 773 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,440 See you soon, bye. 774 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:53,440 Bye everybody.