Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing in Education podcast. The space where education meets resilience. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in each episode we dive deep into the personal stories of educators, students, leaders, and frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities within modern education.
Whether you're just starting your teaching journey or are a seasoned professional looking for inspiration, we'll explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent burnout, and build trauma-informed communities within our schools. Now, let's take a seat at the front of the classroom as we get started.
Welcome back to the podcast where today's guest is not only a scholar and counselor, but a voice leading the charge for more inclusive, compassionate, and scientifically grounded support systems across education and mental health. Dr. Alexander Fields is an assistant professor of counselor Education at Florida Atlantic University, a licensed professional counselor and nationally certified counselor, and his [00:01:00] work centers on integrated behavioral health, disability justice, counselor preparation, and systems level reform.
What makes his work so urgent and so resonant with this podcast is how it tackles gaps that many professionals feel that having had the language to name what happens when students with intellectual or developmental disabilities are left out of suicide prevention efforts when counselor trainee reinforces bias, and when schoolwide wellness efforts don't meet the needs of every learner.
Dr. Fields recently co-authored a widely circulated. Revealing elevated suicide risks among young adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities, otherwise called here IDDs, calling out misdiagnosis, exclusion, and silence, where there should be clarity, compassion, and intervention. He's also the mind behind the BEAM curriculum, standing for Bias Exploration and Awareness Mental health diagnosis, which helps counselors and [00:02:00] care teams recognize how assumptions and systemic structures impact care outcomes.
His work is reflective, interdisciplinary, and rooted in what classrooms, counseling offices, and care systems need now, which is not performative wellness, but actual healing frameworks. So today we're honored to welcome Dr. Fields to the show. Welcome. Thank you for being here. 
Thank you so much for having me, and I really appreciate the introduction and I'm gonna have to steal that moving forward because that was captured a lot of what we're trying to do here at FAU.
I'm so glad to know that. So let's start with that. So Alex, tell us a little bit more about the work that you're doing here with FAU and some of the research that you brought forward to the university for yourself, both personally and professionally. 
Absolutely, and again, I appreciate that intro and I think I'll blanketly capture my research, by describing it as integrated solutions to today's mental health and wellness concerns , and across the lifespan.
So I'm someone who likes to look at wellness and mental health from birth all the way to the end of life. , And looking at how counselors first and foremost [00:03:00] can join different systems, whether it's in the healthcare industry, the education industry. , Higher education, , to really tackle some of these massive challenges that we have.
And, , from that I stem in different little niche areas and one of them being, , with, individuals with disabilities, specifically in individuals with, , intellectual and developmental disabilities, that kind of stemmed from work that I was doing in my doctoral program and my master's program.
That's kind of become a passion project throughout the last couple of years . 
. so what have you seen about students who tend to be falling through the cracks? By the time our podcast has aired, it's going to be probably bridging the first and the second quarter of the school year while even though we're recording during back to school week here for many of our teachers.
Sure. And they're going to be rebranding their mindsets at that point in October, thinking, okay, now that the honeymoon phase is over. Yeah. What's worked and what hasn't worked so far. And one of the things that are consistently failing is how the system, if you don't mind me saying point blank, it seems to enable certain groups and populations to slip [00:04:00] right through the cracks.
So with the studies and research that you've done, really focusing on young adults with disabilities, something that may be overshadowed in our own societal bias, if you will, how, what does that reveal about how we treat mental health in our schools and why are students continuing to fall through the cracks and even teachers who struggle with mental health?
Absolutely. And I, I think I wanna start by saying, I, I hope none of this comes across as me as like trying to point a finger. , 'Cause that's definitely what I'm gonna do and , for point of clarity, like I supervise our practicum students in the schools, so school counselors who are trying to earn their degree.
, I do a lot of their practicum and internship based experiences. So, I've got the privilege of hearing firsthand experiences day in and day out, as well as my own work that I do inside the schools, , of hearing some of these experiences of teachers and school counselors., who are overwhelmed., We are definitely facing a mental health crisis across different educational sectors and healthcare sectors.
, And it's been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic, obviously., And I think with [00:05:00] just how overwhelmed,, educators and mental health professionals are and our education systems,, it can be, easy. For lack of better terms,, to sometimes miss individuals who kind of stray away from what we would consider like the norm.
, And when we consider the norm, , that's where a lot of our training goes into., We do a lot of training when it comes into like a vacuum type situation of here's like your perfect student who exhibits these types of characteristics and these types of things. And it can be really hard to prepare the next generation to kind of understand what it looks like when it's not, your quote unquote neurotypical individual.
So a lot of individuals that have disabilities or,, specifically intellectual and developmental disabilities might exhibit symptoms or they might exhibit, criteria that would like definitely look into like suicide and suicidality or mental health concerns in general , that might not look to see what you were learning when it was in a traditional textbook., So a [00:06:00] lot of the work that we're trying to do at FAU , and within some of my different research teams is how can we,, support some of the education that we're providing to different healthcare professionals and caregivers and educators,, to kind of understand these symptoms a little bit more.
So in speaking about the different symptoms or rather some of the different strategies of awareness or as we call them in the field, the pedagogies of awareness 
uhhuh 
to look into these different symptoms and bring them more into the light. What are some of those strategies for awareness that we've enabled those in the practice to look into?
When we look for specifically like mental health concerns or behavioral health concerns , as they pertain to maybe looking more into maybe like suicidality or severe mental illness or , emotional behavioral disorders or EBDs , we've been taught to look for the student who is disrupting the classroom.
Maybe look for the [00:07:00] student who might need some extra support when it comes to maybe an assignment. While we might be looking for the student who, , really just, I don't wanna say falls behind, but they might need some extra support in different areas. And we've been taught, , as educators and as caregivers and helping professionals.
To make sure that we like, assess that. And that's something that's common in practice inside of our school systems, but when you've got an individual with a disability, it might look different., And so some for examples with that,, they may not have maybe, the vocabulary at this point in time to really express some of the things that are going on in their life.
So I think back to a student that I was working with. , So for some quick professional background, , before getting my master's in counseling, I worked for a foster care agencies across South Florida. And when I was supervising one of the foster care facilities, , we had a couple of individuals that [00:08:00] had, , autism.
And when you've got a individual with autism, specifically autism, that might not have. , Some of the more of the verbal, , communication, , disparities, , it's hard for them to express what is going on. And it might come out in more in behaviors. And for , a particular, , child that I was thinking about, , when maybe it kind of strays from what we were typically taught in like a textbook, is that this student would, or this, I'm sorry, this, this child would start throwing toys every time that there was some sort of a concern going on in his life.
And what might be is like consider like a behavioral, like, oh my, we gotta get this behavior in tip top shape. That child's actually trying to tell you something and it just doesn't have the vocabulary in the words to tell you exactly what's going on in their life. And I translate that to some of the practices that are going on in the schools.
And you might be having something similar, like where we have a behavior concern in the classroom. It might be looked at as . Little Johnny's acting up and we need to send her into the hallway. Give him a [00:09:00] time out. Like something like that nature, it's, that could be a really a cry for help. , Johnny might not have the vocabulary to tell his teacher or his caregivers, his school counselor, , that he's having some really, , serious thoughts or some things that are going on in his life and looking for an avenue,, to try to be able to express that.
Definitely. So , when IDDs come out through behaviors or even emotions 
mm-hmm. What are some different ways, like we already said, that we can change the mindset of not a, what's wrong with this student or what's wrong with this child, but rather a, how can we help the student or child?
What are some other in the moment strategies that teachers can use to cancel those students who are portraying those behaviors rather than attempting to ignore them and go forward? 
Absolutely. And , I would say first and foremost is that I would try to encourage any educator, future educator, helping professional wherever your, , professional heart lies.
Is that trying to take a trauma-informed approach. And that doesn't necessarily mean every trauma [00:10:00] that we're gonna work with has a severe history of trauma. They, ACE scores might be, , a zero. But , having that trauma informed mentality, I think there's a lot of pressure off educators and caregivers. , I think it, validates that the human experience and that there's things that are going on, , beyond that surface level, , that every type of behavior, attitude, missed, homework assignment, , nodding off in the class, as opposed to immediately trying to think about how we can try to provide a consequence or a punishment thinking about how we can,, change that mindset too.
What is going on with this particular student? And as you mentioned, this podcast is probably coming around in like around the switch between quarter one and quarter two. , By this point in time, , a lot of educators are probably gonna have a solid baseline understanding of who their students are, some typical behaviors and typical patterns.
And it might be common, , this student that has like an emotional behavioral disorder or intellectual developmental [00:11:00] disability to have an elevated baseline. But we're looking to really see what it strays away from that baseline. And once you are recognizing that you've got some of these symptoms in some of these, , patterns and some of these behaviors, , first and foremost I think is validating.
And it can be really, really hard. I don't want this to say like, you've got a student that's throwing chairs, let's validate that they're throwing chairs. Like that's obviously a safety concern. Make sure that you're getting your class in the, a safe position and, , you don't want anything to , go wrong that that department.
But at the same point in time too, I think validating. , I think if you see that student that's having some more behavioral concerns that you're not typically accustomed for that student, or maybe they are having trouble staying awake, or maybe they are having that simple, like, I noticed today was extremely difficult for you, or, I recognize today in the back of the classroom you were having trouble, , concentrating, or I noticed that you were distracted easily today.
Is there something that's going on that we can talk about? And having those kind of [00:12:00] brief moments where you simply validate what you've observed, acknowledge that it's something that's out of the norm and characteristics, so you're showing that individual, that student, , that you've picked up on some of the things that they're doing and that you genuinely care, , can go a long way.
And , when we're thinking about it as pertaining to, , suicide prevention and intervention, , that simple invitation can be lifesaving by simply acknowledging something that's going on in an individual's life, you have provided that individual the opportunity to tell you more. And that's not, again, I'm talking about this, I mentioned earlier, like in a vacuum, similar situation here where you've got the perfect scenario of the student wanting to open up, but always keep, when I'm working specifically with children, adolescents, and young adults, a lot of what you're doing is planting seeds and letting that child, that adolescent, that young adult, know that , you care.
And if they ever were in a situation where they needed to talk to someone about that, they know that you're a caring adult. [00:13:00] 
Definitely. So I love this idea of working to validate, acknowledge, and get that invitation to share. And you gave me a memory just now, I remembering back from my own fifth grade year where there was a student who was very aggressive in the classroom.
Mm-hmm. 
And there was one day where he did pick up a chair and he was going to throw it. Mm-hmm. And every single student in the class, and the teacher ran to the opposite side of the room and he's aiming the chair out there and they're on the other side of the room. And I'm just sitting there. I'm the only one who did not get up and move.
Mm-hmm. 
Sitting at my desk, planted there, and everyone's screaming, Joey, Joey, Joey, come over, come be. And he's just holding the chair looking around, you could see he's so angry and he wants to do something with it. And I remember saying, I'm not moving. 'cause to me it's like staying where I was . It's acknowledging his action with me trying to stay put. And I think back to that scenario, and I consider other students in my classes who had very aggressive tendencies after that when I taught back in [00:14:00] that same district.
And when it comes to scenarios like that, I know that sometimes what happens in the moment is very different from what we would actually plan to do ahead of time. Instinct is a huge factor, but what else can we do in the moment in addition to validating and acknowledging that can really calm a student down?
Well, first of all, I appreciate you sharing that story. 'cause I think that illustrates multiple systems that can be at play too, because I, I think some of the things that we're talking about now, , we're definitely talking about the caregiver, the helping professional, the educator level. But I mean, even at the student level too, like having a healthy school system means having students that are willing to like also be a part of that , experience.
Like being able to learn some of these validation skills. So I will. Talk about this first, and I'll answer your question. So like, I think one thing, and this is probably the forefront of my mind because I just had a student do this in my group counseling class. , She developed a curriculum devoted to the building empathy inside schools.
And , I told her no lesson than 500 times in class [00:15:00] and through comments that like, this is, I hope you can please continue to do this. Like, I cannot, I'm not saying this because you submitted a really cool assignment. Like I'm truly meaning, like, I hope you continue to do this inside the schools.
'cause I think that perspective taking, that empathy building can be so huge. , And it starts at the adult educator helping professional level. Like if we're able to kind of model that behavior to students and show them that we are caring individuals, that translates into a, hopefully a caring classroom.
But some more things from my professional lens and some,, things that I would love to kind of talk about first and foremost. Never work on an island. And when I mean that, and that kind of goes into my interprofessional integrated care, type brain. But you should never be in an island no matter what work setting you are in.
And if you have found yourself on an island, figure out how to build a bridge to connect yourself some other islands. And what I mean by that, so let's say you are having a student that is really having a really hard time in the [00:16:00] classroom., And again, I'm thinking from K through 20, like in your post-secondary settings as well.
School counselors and counselors in general are taught how to work in consultation based attitudes. So for that instance, so let's say you are having a student that week in and week out, you're just having a lot of emotional, behavioral, , concerns with a particular student. Bring in some of those mental health professionals that you have in your school.
And I know that there can be sometimes a lack of mental health professionals, and that's a whole nother podcast conversation that we could have. , But, using the resources that you do have available and consulting as much as you can. And if you're not able to make, maybe your school counselor is bombed down with a bunch of other things and they're having a hard time looking at other providers in the area too.
 I teach my mental health counselors just the same as my school counselors of, we are agents of change inside of this community. , So looking to see if you've got other, like agency based counselors, if you've got private practice based counselors, they're able to do consultation with you. , So outside [00:17:00] of the consultation, outside of, that helping professional lens, , I think some things that you can just do, , and again, I say this really aspirationally and I, I know there's gonna be people listening to this that like, this guy's outta touch.
He doesn't understand what's going on in our schools right now, but trying to implement. Just even if it's a five to 10 minute conversation at the beginning of a day, something to do with social and emotional learning. And it's similar to when I teach group counseling that I ask every one of my students at the beginning of group to do some sort of like a temperature check and can be a structure temperature check.
Like I've got like a thermometer that I sometimes have clients or students work through that will go through different levels of different things that they might be experiencing. But you can definitely do that inside the classroom. So when I'm doing school-based interventions or if I'm doing social emotional learning in the schools or with,, K through 20 individuals, I'm doing a lot of work to where I do like maybe like an emoji chart [00:18:00] where it's like I want everyone to draw what emoji on this chart is representing how they're feeling today.
And just by having that brief moment where you're able to just one for yourself as the educator, the health care professional, like I can get a good sense of, . Sally and Timmy are in a good mood because they're gonna hold up their picture and I'm gonna be able to see that. But also too, if they have a frowny face, like I'm gonna know going into this day that I might have some students that might need some extra support, or maybe that this is gonna be a lesson that I need to take a little bit slower because I might not have the engagement that I'm going to need.
And a lot of times when you get students that have some of these behavioral outbursts inside the schools is they're overwhelmed. And it might be because of the content that you're, that's going on in the class at that particular time, mixed with what's going on at home, mixed with what's going on in their minds.
There might be a lot of things going on. So just centering that, that mindfulness piece, that temperature check at the beginning, , or sometime throughout the day, can be a massive [00:19:00] boost, , to how you plan some of the activities and how you plan some of those direct interactions that you have with some of your students.
Definitely. And it's making me think about just having my own classes when I was teaching at the middle school level. I really try to build what I call to be a village for my students. Mm-hmm. Or if I saw one student struggling in second period, I'll go to her fourth period and her sixth period and say, Hey, you three, you're my friends.
You have the students, she, I know she gets along with you all. Let's just agree to all be a rotative pair of eyes on her throughout the day to make sure that she gets absolutely to the end in good shape. And I also love, in addition to trying to build partnerships where the students feel validated by us and vice versa.
Mm-hmm. That we also let them feel validated by each other, like you said, Alex. And one thing that I've done for that is that normally at the very beginning of the year, like in week two or three, I always do an activity called Friendship Day where I tell the students just, we've already worked in small groups and small pairs to start [00:20:00] the year.
But today, even if you're shy. Just get up and try talking to somebody brand new that maybe you've wanted to talk to but haven't done so yet. Oh, I love that. Or just somebody you want to continue a conversation with. So it makes it less awkward, like if they've seen someone on the other side of the room and like, oh, I wanna get to know that person.
That it gives 'em that invitation and in a non awkward way to let them go approach that person and the fashion that list them. Just kind of move around and talk and Cool, they're shy. Maybe that person can come up to them. Or if not, I can make an introduction and walk them over myself. 
And that kind of goes into like that.
Yeah. That empathy building piece. And I think that's just something that I hope we see more in schools because we've been so disconnected. I mean, COVID disconnected a lot of us and we're having a new generation now that started kindergarten potentially over a computer. Yeah. , And maybe their first year from first grade it was maybe hybrid based learning where they're now in an environment where they're not used to being around people this often, this like, so they're not used to making these connections like this and that human [00:21:00] experience.
So I love that. Thank you for telling me about that, because that's something I'm gonna be probably recommending to Excellent. My school counselors and teachers in the future. Let's 
make a wave of that. Yeah. If we think about the incoming fifth grade class here in the 25, 26 school year, every single student who is placed appropriately, in an elementary school grade will have been affected by 2020 in some way.
Which is crazy to think 
about. , This is gonna be something that we probably don't know for the next couple of years. Like the true long-term, consequences, I don't mean that in a negative turn. It could be a positive, it could be a negative, but, I think it's gonna be interesting to see some of the data that comes out, particularly as it comes to some of more vulnerable populations like students with disabilities.
Mm-hmm. , Just because inter traditional learning was interrupted in ways that we could never have imagined. 
If you think about even just how the college landscape will look seven years from now, that's going to be a whole nother conversation come that time. Usually the student that 
I have in my school counseling type classes, for sure.
Yeah. In eight years. Yep. And I'm thinking [00:22:00] about also like the daily temperature checks, which are awesome. And I think another way to enable those academically is that when I'm teaching my English classes, even at FAU as well, I have the students come in and the first thing that they do is get into a circle.
And in their circle I say to them, okay, you've gone away. You've read the material for today. And of course in science from math, that might be a little bit harder to have this conversation from the standpoint of logic, but from the standpoint of emotion, which is where all of the readings come from in my classes, like stories, literature, sometimes with really dark themes, we're reading stories on social justice and dystopia.
I call my class depressing stories one oh one, when students come in and I have them sit around and I say, okay. For those of you that read or even went away and watched the movie, for those of you that have something to come in based upon discussing a text for today, what's on your mind and what are you thinking about it?
I, at the start of today's class, and it really gives some talking to [00:23:00] say, oh, this text made me think about A, B, C, and more than 90% of the time, I will throw away my lesson plan and just sit there for 90 minutes and talk them through that daily conversation. We'll circle it back to what I anticipated.
Absolutely. But I always let them start it off. And that's a great way for them to build connections with each other, to hear their thoughts, but also let them feel academically inserted into the conversation from the 
start. And you respect that autonomy in , . That like every learner should be considered unique.
Right? , Even if they seem like the most cookie cutter student or client or whatever, , they are a unique individual with. A unique set of personality traits, unique genetics, , unique life circumstances, and giving 'em that ability to develop their own insight. I love that. Thank you for that. 
So tell us a little bit more about what BEAM is working to teach us.
And so BEAM is helping future counselors recognize how bias can affect mental health care. And for people who aren't in [00:24:00] counseling, tell us about some of the assumptions that we might carry and what this might lead professionals to miss what students are really going through, and how can we train counselors and teachers to notice our own blind spots sooner than later?
I cannot be more excited to talk about this. So thank you so much for bringing it up. My pleasure. , So I definitely, before I get anything, I want to give flowers where flowers are due. , So BEAM is part of a collaborative effort between two of my really good friends and colleagues, , Dr. Ashley Waddington, who owns and operates a practice out of South Carolina.
And, , does adjunct work with the University of South Carolina, , and Haley, Dr. Haley Ault too, who is, uh, assistant professor at Georgia State, and make a long story short. , Dr. Ashley Waddington her dissertation, , looked at clinical reasoning and mental health counselor specifically looking to see , the kind of the relationship between multicultural awareness and understanding and bias.
Exploration has in a beginning, counselor's self-efficacy and ultimately their comfortability, diagnosing in the future. [00:25:00] And from that, we were really fortunate to, come together with different professional backgrounds and lenses, , to really develop a curriculum and get some grant funding, , to support the development of a clinical reasoning model.
That's really grounded in some of the counseling, , professional identity standpoint. So when we think of counseling, professional identity, really big into wellness exploration. So understanding. How, what makes someone happy, what gets them well across multiple domains, not just their symptomology, , but also a massive pillar of our field is social justice and cultural humility.
, And a lot of clinical reasoning is developed by medical model. I'm not here to poo p the medical model. It's something that I think that everyone needs to be aware of and understand and recognize that it has strengths and recognize that it has pitfalls. , And particularly when we're training counselors, one of the pitfalls is that we train counselors in this, like this long-term approach and like again, the vacuum type scenario where you've got this client that you meet with 50 minutes a week for like a year, and [00:26:00] then their symptoms subside little by little.
Where with diagnosing, a lot of times you've gotta make a diagnosis as if you're specifically working in manage care situations within the first session or two. , And that can be a really overwhelming. Task for beginning counselors and counselors in general. I shouldn't just say beginning counselors.
So what we're trying to do is solidify a clinical reasoning model, , that is grounded in one medical aspect. , But also two, recognizing that there is a human element to clinical reasoning and how I mentioned earlier that everyone should be respected as a, a unique individual.
We're kind of bringing that into the clinical reasoning process with BEAM. , And what we're currently doing right now is validating our curriculum and validating our model. So what our model's kind of looking at right now is that beginning of the first time that you make contact with an individual, again, across the lifespan, , that you're having the mentality, that you are respecting the unique parts about [00:27:00] them during the intake interview.
And then that kind of goes into, , how you're conceiving the client. Reasoning some of the things that you're hearing about so far and making some, I, for lack of better terms, and this is gonna be something more medical model stuff, that judgment, but we don't want that judgment to just be a one and done type scenario.
So what we're trying to do is develop a feedback process or feedback loop, I should say,, that kind of goes into a long-term outcome to where the counselor one is able to recognize maybe some of the biases that they have. , So I grew up, in Middletown, Ohio. It's become kind of popular over the last couple of months.
, And one thing about Middletown, Ohio is that it's got a really severe addiction issue right now. A lot of opioid use disorder, methamphetamine use disorder. And I was just talking to some family back home recently. And , still to this day, issues are going on. But I definitely had a bias and stigma towards substance abuse disorders [00:28:00] when I injured my post-secondary graduate education.
And that was something that I had to learn about myself is that I had that kind of, that quick snap that addiction was a choice. Why would someone ever do this to themselves? To where now I've been able to recognize that bias, explore that bias a little bit more about where I come from and apply it to clinical practice to where that's not true.
Like , I've been able to challenge that. I've been able to recognize that to where something, now that I've worked a lot with individuals with addiction, to recognize that there is that biological component, there is that environmental component to it, , that you have to respect as a clinician. , And you have to treat as a clinician.
And similar to with, our more marginalized clients are more, , likely to receive a severe and persistent mental health diagnosis. , Some of our more vulnerable clients, are more likely to maybe have some of their symptoms attributed to something else. So I'll go back to some more of the intellectual developmental disability.
They may have, , an individual with an intellectual [00:29:00] disability
there may be concerns communicating some of the things going on in their life. And they may need additional support to express to what's going on, or that could be viewed as symptoms for a lot of different disorders. It could be viewed as maybe disengaged, could be viewed as low motivation.
It could be viewed as, , low energy. To where, again, as recognizing yourself as a clinician, , what do you think is going on in this space right now based on your biases, beliefs? And then you challenge it. You formulate a hypothesis that you're able to ground and concrete evidence, consultation, a bunch of other different things that kind of go into this to ensure that what the, diagnosis that you come to is grounded in cultural humility.
It's grounded in science and evidence, and it's something that benefits client welfare. At the end of the day, we don't wanna be delivering diagnoses or, clinical judgments that don't promote client welfare. , That is the most ethical thing that we need to be considering. , And it is the benefit to community that we need to be [00:30:00] considering.
And I love that entanglement between culture and science as well. So in keeping those practices in mind, what are some of the inter intersections we can look at and can improve from when it comes to acknowledging education, disability advocacy, and even clinical care, and improving just the community circumstances for those with an IDD 
for particular, for those with IDD, I think.
, I'm gonna sound so boring here, but education, I, I mean, at the end of the day, and I sound like, wow, that's how novel, but truly like, I mean, I think to my own graduate education, and this is, I've been really fortunate to go to amazing programs that have just unreal faculty that I've been a part of my journey and mentored me to where I'm at today.
, But it's not common that students are educated on folks with IDD. , And my clinical background was complete happenstance. , I had a faculty member at UCF in [00:31:00] Orlando, , during the tail end of my time there, she was partnering with,, I forget the name of it, UCF, but , there's a bunch of programs across the country called inclusive post-secondary education programs, IPSes, and they are programs devoted to providing support and access to students with IDD.
To receive post-secondary education. And when I was at UCF, I had the privilege of working with her to provide free counseling services to students that were in that program. , And then when I decided to get my doctorate at South Carolina, again, happenstance to where my graduate assistantship was with Carolina Life, which was, , south Carolina's IPSes program.
, So for three years there, I was one of their counselors. I was on staff that provided weekly services to students that were within their program. And because of that, I was able to be exposed to the IDD community a little bit more. I was able to challenge myself to read literature, to read resources, to get resources to consult with colleagues [00:32:00] from across different specialty areas.
It's like one of my biggest, . Collaborators and best friends now, Dr. Rebecca Smith Hill, outta South Carolina. , I mean, that's something that we are able to work together on to apply our professional backgrounds together, , to solve some of these issues that are going on in our communities.
But again, I think just having resources like that and as counselor educators, as individuals in College of Educations that are preparing our next generation of educators, , recognizing that's kind of like a pitfall in some of the content that we teach, is that we don't have a lot of disability related stuff in clinical mental health counseling and school counseling, , in K through 12 education, , to where having those quick resources that you can provide students.
So for instance, I'm teaching introduction to mental health counseling in the fall, and when we are doing different topic areas, you're exposed to this content of a lot of different populations.
Or even if you're not gonna be a content expert in that area, you've been exposed to it in some capacity. [00:33:00] So you either know how to do consultation with someone else who's more, or you understand the basics to make sure that you're doing what you need to be doing to make sure that person gets the care they deserve.
Definitely. And I think, like you said, like it, it's not cliche at all, it's just the fact that education always wins what I was brought up with as well as a motto. And I think the more that we bring both resources and knowledge to the communities that need to know it, that's how we can change the system going forward.
Because it's absolutely, when ignorance overpowers, that's when nothing gets done 
well, and that goes into it as well. I mean, when we're thinking about that 'cause that, suicide prevention intervention paper for young adults with IDD, , that was pretty much birthed. . I know, , Dr. Chelsea, , gonna be like, you shouldn't have said that, but she was kinda like, Alex, you need to write something.
Like I just had received, , my training for trainer, which is, the Assist Applied Suicide Intervention skills training. It's a national model. , And , I'm a certified trainer in that model, and I was just bragging about how I just got this really cool training and I'm ready to do it in the communities.
And she's like, all right, time to [00:34:00] do it with people with IDD. And I was like, and there's like nothing out there for it. And I was like, oh, for sure, Chelsea. There's something out there. And the more we searched, there was really no resources for individuals working with that population. So that paper was born basically to serve as a resource guide until we can do future work to have more of that empirical basis about what we need to be doing.
But even in some of our research and some of our studies, it can be as simple as recognizing that complex language can be difficult for that population. So it's. Just as easy to present pictures or simplify the language to ask some of the questions that we need to be asking. , So for instance, whenever I'm, assessing suicide, I use what's called the SLAP assessment.
, It goes for, Specificity, , Lethality Access and a Plan. , So for that, when I do that SLAP assessment , I'm going to use more common language. I'm not gonna use clinical language when I'm working with my clients or my students that have an intellectual or developmental disability , there's no need for me to use complex clinical [00:35:00] jargon when I can be as simple as, have you had thoughts of killing yourself?
Have you had thoughts of ending your life?, Do you want to go to bed tonight and not wake up tomorrow? , So those are some simple questions that you can ask that might sound intimidating at first, but again, with education and knowledge, you know that you are not implanting ideas inside someone's head.
You are not making the problem worse. In fact, you're doing exactly what you need to be doing by asking that question. 
I love that. And I'm also a huge fan of assist. I also took the assist training after the Stoneman Douglas shooting in 2018 and in years to follow, I think one personal error I made on my part as that I thought the training allowed me to compensate for myself as thinking I could be a counselor and a therapist.
And it wasn't until years after I made a grave error with that, with a student of mine that I needed to realize, hmm, I'm not a counselor and I'm not a therapist. But what this training has done has equipped me with the tools to be, a member or part of the community [00:36:00] who can keep somebody else safe for now.
That's 
it. Absolutely. Thank you for ma part of the community too. And so some of the work, if people are curious what we're doing out in the future, . Some of my collaborators in special education,, and clinical rehabilitation, , and other disciplines and counseling as well, like school and clinical mental health.
We're looking to do a multi-site, I hate to say the word study, but at the end of the day, we're trying to do a grant funded evaluation of looking to bring assist into the IDD community meet a little bit more. So we're gonna be delivering the assist training to students with IDD as well as future healthcare providers, future counselors, future educators.
, So one the future counselors, educators, healthcare professionals, can learn how to adapt some of their language to working with folks with IDD and vice versa. Folks with IDD are able to understand what it's like to work with a healthcare professional, work with someone, , who's gonna be a future mental health professional, a future educator to kinda make it a little less [00:37:00] intimidating, , for future healthcare education type appointments.
Thank you so much for that, and I love the work that's being done in, in that field as well. So what would you say is one point from our conversation today that our listeners can walk away with?
Thank you for that., I would say , the biggest takeaway is it's okay not to know something, but it's not okay not to care. And what I mean by that is , there are a lot of things in this field that I'm still learning and I still need to understand myself.
And I think that's gonna be an, a lifelong pursuit at the end of the day. And I think that's for everybody. But, I think it's recognizing what we don't know and making sure that we challenge ourselves to the best of our ability. To get as many resources, colleagues, content ourselves to make sure that those vulnerable clients, like folks with [00:38:00] IDD, have individuals that have done the work to learn a little bit more about how to provide that person-centered care that they deserve.
Thank you so much for that. And I echo that too, that it's okay to have a knowledge gap in certain areas as long as you're willing to close it with education and even on an emotional level with students or people close to us sometimes when a tragedy happens, we don't know what we don't know about that person who was in crisis.
Absolutely. And again, , as we spoke about in other podcast as well, we can't place guilt in ourselves for the facts that we weren't enabled to learn. But having knowledge as to what signs and skills to look for can help us maybe in the future get to the root of that issue quicker to maybe save that person in crisis.
Absolutely. And it's those, like you mentioned, those little small things that you'll do. So if anything, like for suicide particular like having just a little thing on your desk next to your desk that has like reminders of things to look for, how it might look in a particular community [00:39:00] can save someone's life.
Absolutely. So that was Dr. Fields inviting us to look more closely at what's being left outta the conversation and understand how systems of care may be unintentionally deepening the very wounds we claim to address. And whether you're a teacher trying to support a Neurodiverse student, a counselor in training, or someone who simply believes that mental health shouldn't be a privilege, Dr.
Fields work causes to hold space differently to examine our biases and to build care systems that don't just include but truly understand. You can learn more about Dr. Fields through the links in our show notes. And Alex, thank you again for bringing both your research and your humanity into our space today.
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation today.
Thank you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education podcast. If today's episode inspired you or made you think differently, I'd love to hear from you. Drop a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts and stay connected with us on the at Classroom Narratives podcast over Instagram and Facebook.
Remember, together we can [00:40:00] transform our scars into stars and education, one conversation at a time.