WEBVTT 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:12.419 Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing in 00:00:12.419 --> 00:00:14.900 Education podcast, the space where education 00:00:14.900 --> 00:00:19.019 meets resilience. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in 00:00:19.019 --> 00:00:21.399 each episode, we dive deep into the personal 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:25.079 stories of educators, students, leaders, and 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:28.079 frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:31.260 within modern education. Whether you're just 00:00:31.260 --> 00:00:33.880 starting your teaching journey, or are a seasoned 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.240 professional looking for inspiration, we'll 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:39.060 explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent 00:00:39.060 --> 00:00:41.859 burnout, and build trauma -informed communities 00:00:41.859 --> 00:00:44.979 within our schools. Now, let's take a seat at 00:00:44.979 --> 00:00:46.859 the front of the classroom as we get started. 00:00:47.460 --> 00:00:50.039 Welcome, everyone. Today, I'm so grateful to 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:52.880 be joined by someone whose work is deeply rooted 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:56.000 in purpose, clarity, and the kind of leadership 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.950 that doesn't just inspire. It seeks to transform. 00:00:59.210 --> 00:01:01.689 Stephanie Kunkel is a leadership development 00:01:01.689 --> 00:01:04.310 specialist, a mental health advocate, and the 00:01:04.310 --> 00:01:07.430 founder of Perspective Shifting LLC. With a background 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:09.950 in both organizational leadership and personal 00:01:09.950 --> 00:01:13.150 resilience, she empowers individuals and teams 00:01:13.150 --> 00:01:15.969 to realign their values, build sustainable practices, 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:18.680 and show up as the most authentic selves. Through 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:21.200 keynotes, workshops, and her thriving community 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:24.060 platform, Stephanie has helped countless changemakers 00:01:24.060 --> 00:01:26.819 unlock not only their potential, but also their 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:28.920 peace. Whether you're leading a classroom, a 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:31.819 company, or your own next chapter, her insights 00:01:31.819 --> 00:01:34.420 will meet you exactly where you are. Stephanie, 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:35.959 welcome to the show. I'm thrilled that you're 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:37.859 here with us. That was a great introduction. 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.819 I love it. Thank you so much. My pleasure. So 00:01:41.819 --> 00:01:44.299 Stephanie and I met through a mutual contact, 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:46.140 and I wanted to go ahead and start today's episode 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:48.959 by giving a shout out to Virginia Daniel, who 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:51.239 is the director of the Throne in the Classroom 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.519 segment. And I will also link the Throne in the 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.319 Classroom here to see work that I had done with 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.780 Virginia back in 2022. And Virginia set up an 00:01:59.780 --> 00:02:02.680 introduction between me and Stephanie. And what 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:05.319 I wanted to do with Stephanie first, since reading 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:08.710 your memoir, should we call it a memoir? Yeah, 00:02:08.729 --> 00:02:11.169 I think that's appropriate. Part one, maybe. 00:02:13.030 --> 00:02:15.669 Once reading your memoir, Perspectives Through 00:02:15.669 --> 00:02:20.189 Broken Glass, I was immersed in the acknowledgement 00:02:20.189 --> 00:02:23.490 that Stephanie dedicates to herself and other 00:02:23.490 --> 00:02:27.889 survivors of trauma about grief, loss, and finding 00:02:27.889 --> 00:02:31.629 meaning within oneself to move forward from a 00:02:31.629 --> 00:02:33.370 traumatic instance or several traumatic instances 00:02:33.370 --> 00:02:36.919 as well. I wanted to start there. And Stephanie, 00:02:36.979 --> 00:02:38.319 if you can go ahead and just tell us a little 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.000 bit more about your background, what your work 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:44.680 does to center on perspective shifting. And also 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:46.719 tell us a little bit about Perspectives Through 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.879 Broken Glass as a memoir. Yeah, thanks so much. 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.979 So for me. I have a background in leadership 00:02:53.979 --> 00:02:56.280 development, and that's what my master's degree 00:02:56.280 --> 00:03:00.960 is in. And in 2011, I started counseling for 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:03.379 depression because I was having suicidal thoughts. 00:03:03.620 --> 00:03:07.000 And I was also pregnant with my daughter and 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.439 had a 12 -month -old son and was like, they need 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:13.120 me to be okay. And I go into a little bit more 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:16.900 about that in my book. But needless to say, I 00:03:16.900 --> 00:03:19.300 started cognitive behavioral therapy, which was 00:03:19.300 --> 00:03:23.419 a large shift in my life. And really what it 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:27.400 did for me was helped me to gain perspective. 00:03:27.659 --> 00:03:30.919 And I think that's been basically my life mission 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.020 since then. I've always had a little bit of a 00:03:33.020 --> 00:03:35.280 rebellious streak or played like devil's advocate 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.780 with people when I was talking with them. But 00:03:37.780 --> 00:03:39.719 cognitive behavioral therapy gave me the tools 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:43.199 to do that with love and compassion and really 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.379 allowed me to not just do that for others, but 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:51.639 also for myself. And so After I moved through 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.680 a job change and through coaching and developing 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:57.639 leadership development programs for corporate 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:00.020 America, I really found that there was a little 00:04:00.020 --> 00:04:03.439 bit of a lack of understanding and acknowledgement, 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:07.020 especially around trauma victims, people with 00:04:07.020 --> 00:04:10.189 depression, severe anxiety. in the corporate 00:04:10.189 --> 00:04:12.250 space. And I think it's even more prevalent today. 00:04:12.330 --> 00:04:15.189 I think the latest Gallup poll showed that one 00:04:15.189 --> 00:04:18.029 in three Americans over the age of 18 have been 00:04:18.029 --> 00:04:21.910 diagnosed with depression. So we're no longer 00:04:21.910 --> 00:04:24.449 in this area of saying, we've got symptoms. And 00:04:24.449 --> 00:04:28.430 when my book came out in 2022, it was 20 to 25 00:04:28.430 --> 00:04:31.389 % of people were experiencing symptoms of depression. 00:04:32.269 --> 00:04:34.329 And that's one in five. And so now we've moved 00:04:34.329 --> 00:04:36.149 way up the scale and we're not just experiencing 00:04:36.149 --> 00:04:38.449 symptoms, but we're actually getting diagnosed, 00:04:38.750 --> 00:04:41.649 which is great. But it also gives you some indication 00:04:41.649 --> 00:04:45.069 of where we are right now in our society. The 00:04:45.069 --> 00:04:46.769 other acknowledgement that I have is that it 00:04:46.769 --> 00:04:49.709 takes approximately 11 years from the start of 00:04:49.709 --> 00:04:53.569 symptoms to treatment. So we look at all of the 00:04:53.569 --> 00:04:56.180 trauma that we've all experienced globally. In 00:04:56.180 --> 00:04:59.240 the last five years alone, we kind of have a 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.680 lot to think about as we move forward and how 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:03.800 we handle people. And you and I talked about 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:05.920 this, how we handle people with care, right? 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.839 As we go forward. I'm remembering a portion of 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:11.319 your text that really stuck with me. You mentioned 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:16.420 that you started in your mind to develop a plan 00:05:16.420 --> 00:05:20.279 for the end of life and you never acted on that, 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.959 but. There is a rationalization that you came 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:26.660 up with as to why that plan made sense, for example, 00:05:26.660 --> 00:05:29.060 like your kids, but that also prevented you from 00:05:29.060 --> 00:05:30.680 acting because you knew that you would be the 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:32.600 one to best raise your children. I'm going to 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:36.379 quote Sue Klebold, if I can. Sue Klebold is the 00:05:36.379 --> 00:05:39.100 mother of Columbine perpetrator Dylan Klebold, 00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:41.920 who has since become a major brain health advocate. 00:05:42.500 --> 00:05:45.360 She says that when somebody is in that state, 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:48.860 they are in what she calls to be a stage four. 00:05:49.470 --> 00:05:53.129 brain health crisis. And she says brain health 00:05:53.129 --> 00:05:56.610 as something that is so concrete that should 00:05:56.610 --> 00:05:58.310 be acknowledged just as any other part of the 00:05:58.310 --> 00:06:01.269 body. And what I'm wondering, Stephanie, is that 00:06:01.269 --> 00:06:05.110 when somebody gets to that point, what does that 00:06:05.110 --> 00:06:07.990 look like for the person who's in crisis and 00:06:07.990 --> 00:06:10.850 for their loved ones who may either be missing 00:06:10.850 --> 00:06:15.290 the signs or even want to lean into it, but may 00:06:15.290 --> 00:06:18.860 not know how and what to do to help? What does 00:06:18.860 --> 00:06:20.660 that look like? And I wonder if you can walk 00:06:20.660 --> 00:06:23.439 us through that. Well, I think if I'm being honest, 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:26.819 I talk about certain scenarios in my book. But 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:28.680 this was something that I'd been battling for 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:30.980 a really long time. So this was not anything 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:34.259 that was abnormal to me. And actually, I'm not 00:06:34.259 --> 00:06:35.879 laying blame here. I want to make that clear. 00:06:36.019 --> 00:06:38.439 But this was something I was raised with, right? 00:06:38.540 --> 00:06:41.759 So my mother had suicidal ideation. And she never 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.100 acted on it, but it was a constant reminder in 00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:47.959 my life that when things got rough, we just didn't 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:49.800 want to be here anymore. And I was at a point 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:52.800 in my life when I hit that crisis mode where 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:56.439 I was like, I really need help. Where I was just 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.639 having realizations that my mother was not happy 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:03.439 still at her age. My sister was struggling and 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:06.399 my friends were struggling. And here I was struggling. 00:07:07.149 --> 00:07:09.990 And it was one of those aspects of what's it 00:07:09.990 --> 00:07:14.149 all for. So very clearly, I didn't have or I 00:07:14.149 --> 00:07:16.730 didn't feel like at that moment I had a purpose 00:07:16.730 --> 00:07:22.269 or I had something to give me hope or feelings 00:07:22.269 --> 00:07:25.930 of there is something worth fighting for here. 00:07:26.230 --> 00:07:28.790 And I will never forget the time that I sat down 00:07:28.790 --> 00:07:32.110 with my therapist and we had a very open conversation 00:07:32.110 --> 00:07:34.550 the first day I was there because I didn't I 00:07:34.550 --> 00:07:37.490 was nervous. I think a lot of people. are afraid 00:07:37.490 --> 00:07:41.149 when they're in that like stage four space to 00:07:41.149 --> 00:07:44.189 even ask for help from a professional because 00:07:44.189 --> 00:07:48.689 it was only 75 years ago that we were institutionalizing 00:07:48.689 --> 00:07:51.170 people when they did ask for help, right? So 00:07:51.170 --> 00:07:53.750 even though we've come a very long way since 00:07:53.750 --> 00:07:57.110 then, it is still very stigmatized. And I had 00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:00.790 two children as well. And so I didn't want my 00:08:00.790 --> 00:08:04.069 children to be taken away from me. And so asking 00:08:04.069 --> 00:08:06.930 for help was a big step. And I was very clear 00:08:06.930 --> 00:08:10.910 with my therapist that I didn't know if I should 00:08:10.910 --> 00:08:14.110 even be there because I was not trusting. And 00:08:14.110 --> 00:08:16.350 then on top of that, that I felt like it was 00:08:16.350 --> 00:08:19.050 just something that everybody went through. And 00:08:19.050 --> 00:08:22.550 I remember she said, hold on a second. Do you 00:08:22.550 --> 00:08:26.899 think? That when things are difficult, when you 00:08:26.899 --> 00:08:30.319 hit this wall, when things are in chaos, that 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:34.120 everybody feels that way, that they just they 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:35.899 shouldn't be here anymore. And I said, yeah, 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:40.419 don't they? So I think one of the challenges 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:42.840 for people who are in that state is a mixture 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:44.940 of things. One, especially if it's been normalized, 00:08:45.259 --> 00:08:48.299 which it really has. Like in our society, we 00:08:48.299 --> 00:08:50.279 have normalized it. And I have another caveat 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:52.580 because I go back and forth between this. It 00:08:52.580 --> 00:08:54.860 is normal. Like one in three people have been 00:08:54.860 --> 00:08:57.919 diagnosed with depression. So it is normal. And 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:01.600 also we normalize it to the extent of thinking 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:03.860 like, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:05.679 You don't need help with this, right? Like we've 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:07.480 all been there. We've all gone through this. 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:11.419 So what we do is we normalize it to the extreme 00:09:11.419 --> 00:09:14.919 to make people think that they're just weak if 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:16.919 they're having these thoughts or they just should 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:21.820 be able to snap out of it. So that's the number 00:09:21.820 --> 00:09:24.720 one, I think, challenge when you're in it to 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.159 recognize that everyone has these issues. Yes 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.539 and no, right? Like we were beginning to understand 00:09:31.539 --> 00:09:34.299 that the management of these negative thought 00:09:34.299 --> 00:09:38.179 processes or thoughts of self -harm really do 00:09:38.179 --> 00:09:41.460 need professional help. And it's not just you 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:45.519 go to the doctor when you have. heartburn or 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.580 a migraine. We go to the doctor just for regular 00:09:48.580 --> 00:09:52.580 checkups. Why are we not doing that for our mental 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:54.940 health and our emotional brain? So that's the 00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:57.379 number one path on that. The other piece of this 00:09:57.379 --> 00:10:00.120 is this idea, especially depending on how we've 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:01.879 been raised, the trauma that we've been through. 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:04.220 And I don't even want to say that because really 00:10:04.220 --> 00:10:07.360 it is a societal thing. Like we don't rely on 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.710 each other anymore. 500, 600, 700 years ago, 00:10:10.769 --> 00:10:13.610 our communities were our lifelines. However, 00:10:13.909 --> 00:10:18.070 we also got really good at making sure that we 00:10:18.070 --> 00:10:22.330 kept our stuff to ourself, right? So we know 00:10:22.330 --> 00:10:26.370 like domestic violence, trauma, rape, like all 00:10:26.370 --> 00:10:29.830 of those things, we're still battling stigma 00:10:29.830 --> 00:10:33.110 to have conversations about despite everything. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.519 That we understand about it now. So there's this 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.440 illusion that if we share these things, we're 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.639 burdening other people or we're laying our problems 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:47.100 at their feet. And that was actually something 00:10:47.100 --> 00:10:49.940 that it took me a really long time in therapy. 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:55.059 And even sometimes now, 14 years later, to remember 00:10:55.059 --> 00:10:58.639 that it's okay to open up to other people and 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:01.120 share with them. And so there's that aspect and 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:04.419 then couple that with. the traditional coaching 00:11:04.419 --> 00:11:07.779 that we've been having within the universe and 00:11:07.779 --> 00:11:11.340 how that isn't always serving. A lot of people 00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:13.860 think, well, just switch your mindset, like just 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:16.100 look at things in a positive way. And that's 00:11:16.100 --> 00:11:19.639 great. And there is power to that from a brain 00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:23.460 chemistry standpoint. But when we are having 00:11:23.460 --> 00:11:25.960 negative thoughts and we're in a space of that, 00:11:26.059 --> 00:11:30.200 when someone offers us a different perspective 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:32.639 without understanding where we're coming from, 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:36.620 it can be invalidating and it can make us reluctant 00:11:36.620 --> 00:11:39.000 to share those thoughts again because we don't 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.840 want to be the negative Nancy, right? If there's 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:43.879 any Nancys listening, I don't mean you specifically, 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:47.019 right? But we get into this space where it is 00:11:47.019 --> 00:11:50.379 very difficult for us to open up about it. So 00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:53.960 I leave those three aspects of if you're in that 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:58.299 space. If you're contemplating suicide or you've 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:00.360 ever thought of suicide or you're just stuck 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:03.179 in what I call the black hole of depression and 00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:05.879 you feel like everything takes a massive amount 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:09.120 of effort, there are so many resources and so 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:12.980 many people out there who can help you. You reach 00:12:12.980 --> 00:12:15.840 out because that's how you end up getting out 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.679 of that space. sometimes it takes people a little 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:22.139 bit to find that right fit too. So if you reach 00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:24.700 out and that person doesn't register and doesn't 00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:26.299 resonate with you and you're like, oh, I never 00:12:26.299 --> 00:12:28.100 want to go to therapy again, try somebody else. 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.740 So you asked kind of a two -pronged question 00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:33.840 here. So that's for the person who is struggling. 00:12:34.590 --> 00:12:37.570 For family members, first and foremost, I know 00:12:37.570 --> 00:12:39.269 that there's nothing I'm going to say here that's 00:12:39.269 --> 00:12:41.330 going to alleviate guilt. When someone is in 00:12:41.330 --> 00:12:44.330 that space, there is not a whole lot that their 00:12:44.330 --> 00:12:47.309 family members can do when they won't open up 00:12:47.309 --> 00:12:48.990 about it. They won't lay their problems at your 00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:51.750 feet. They don't want to burden you. They don't 00:12:51.750 --> 00:12:54.750 want to share what they're going through because 00:12:54.750 --> 00:12:58.470 they don't want you to have to process what they're 00:12:58.470 --> 00:13:02.080 going through. And we've had conversations in 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:05.820 the past several years around what trauma dumping 00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:08.379 looks like. So people who have experienced trauma 00:13:08.379 --> 00:13:11.159 now are back to that space where they don't want 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.159 to talk about it because they don't want to trauma 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:16.940 dump on people. And so there's this aspect of 00:13:16.940 --> 00:13:21.139 one recognizing that it isn't just a family member 00:13:21.139 --> 00:13:25.580 or a good friend or significant other issue when 00:13:25.580 --> 00:13:28.139 someone takes their own life. It's really a societal 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:32.690 issue. And it's not just your guilt or your responsibility 00:13:32.690 --> 00:13:37.529 to carry. It's all of ours. We all have to learn 00:13:37.529 --> 00:13:41.549 how to handle people better so that we don't 00:13:41.549 --> 00:13:45.730 have to experience these harsh and dark things 00:13:45.730 --> 00:13:49.149 without the support of other people. We aren't 00:13:49.149 --> 00:13:54.070 meant to go through these things alone. And also, 00:13:54.129 --> 00:13:58.250 we have conditioned our... friends and family 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:01.470 members and everyone around us has been conditioned 00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:06.070 to think that they have to do it alone. So if 00:14:06.070 --> 00:14:08.789 you're carrying forward that guilt and you've 00:14:08.789 --> 00:14:10.889 experienced something like that, the number one 00:14:10.889 --> 00:14:14.789 thing I can offer you as a way for you to process 00:14:14.789 --> 00:14:18.250 and carry and move forward in a way that honors 00:14:18.250 --> 00:14:22.009 someone that you've lost is really to do your 00:14:22.009 --> 00:14:26.129 best to be transparent and open with your own 00:14:26.129 --> 00:14:30.129 mental health. to be transparent and open about 00:14:30.129 --> 00:14:32.929 the fact that this is a thing that we have to 00:14:32.929 --> 00:14:35.649 talk about it. And make sure you're keeping resources 00:14:35.649 --> 00:14:37.909 in your back pocket. Like if you work with an 00:14:37.909 --> 00:14:40.730 organization that has an EAP company, put that 00:14:40.730 --> 00:14:43.250 information literally in your back pocket and 00:14:43.250 --> 00:14:45.570 keep it with you at all times because you don't 00:14:45.570 --> 00:14:48.690 ever know who you're going to run into or who 00:14:48.690 --> 00:14:52.009 you're going to experience. And it's not everyone's 00:14:52.009 --> 00:14:55.730 job to be that therapeutic person for someone 00:14:55.730 --> 00:14:59.090 who's struggling. But it is everyone's job to 00:14:59.090 --> 00:15:03.590 be compassionate and kind and to understand that 00:15:03.590 --> 00:15:06.490 we just don't have a full understanding of what's 00:15:06.490 --> 00:15:08.710 going on with someone at any given moment in 00:15:08.710 --> 00:15:11.309 time. I'm thinking about, again, that talk that 00:15:11.309 --> 00:15:14.610 I heard from Sue Klebold. And when her son committed 00:15:14.610 --> 00:15:16.649 a murder -suicide at Columbine High School in 00:15:16.649 --> 00:15:21.210 1999, she thought for years, and probably still 00:15:21.210 --> 00:15:24.529 is 26 years later, she's thinking, how could 00:15:24.529 --> 00:15:27.620 I not know? How could I not know? How did I miss 00:15:27.620 --> 00:15:30.620 those signs? And frankly, after the loss of my 00:15:30.620 --> 00:15:34.019 own very good friend to suicide in 2018, I still, 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:37.259 seven years out, think about those what -ifs 00:15:37.259 --> 00:15:40.399 all the time. Like, what if I had looked closer? 00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:42.360 What if there were things that I had missed that 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.419 I could have helped him through? And as a person, 00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:49.059 it really plagues me. It guilts me. And in my 00:15:49.059 --> 00:15:52.039 first year of teaching, I think it did more harm 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:55.279 than good. Because now I'm up against the system 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:59.559 that I learned really wanted to bury the pain 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.080 that they saw our children see. And as somebody 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:05.440 who had just witnessed the tragedies that come 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.799 from that, I tried to overturn that, but with 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:12.379 significant failure in attempting to do so. I'm 00:16:12.379 --> 00:16:14.080 just thinking for those of us that carry that 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.440 grief into both our personal and professional 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.440 lives, especially if there are educators out 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.559 there that have lost their own students to suicide. 00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.659 Again, our hearts go out to you and we're wondering 00:16:23.659 --> 00:16:27.100 how that has carried you through your own professional 00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:30.419 teachings. How can we take that guilt and make 00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:32.220 it into something more meaningful with what we 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:35.159 do and give a purpose? If you just first and 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.659 foremost, look at the stages of grief, right? 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.070 And you just look at where we go through. Guilt 00:16:42.070 --> 00:16:44.909 is actually a little bit a part of that denial 00:16:44.909 --> 00:16:50.190 aspect. So one is healing, really taking it upon 00:16:50.190 --> 00:16:53.070 ourselves to lead by example. That's number one. 00:16:53.230 --> 00:16:56.169 I work with people through every industry, right? 00:16:56.269 --> 00:17:00.129 And just anywhere from state agencies to corporations 00:17:00.129 --> 00:17:04.650 to schools. And we have to be right with ourself 00:17:04.650 --> 00:17:08.390 before we can lead by example. We have to understand 00:17:08.390 --> 00:17:12.269 what our healing process looks like. In regards 00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:15.750 to the guilt aspect, though, it's normal. And 00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:19.890 we lay that at people's feet, too. And when you 00:17:19.890 --> 00:17:24.089 think about Sue Klebold, there was a lot of talk 00:17:24.089 --> 00:17:27.730 in the media about how did she miss this? She 00:17:27.730 --> 00:17:31.049 was his mother, right? Like, where was she? What 00:17:31.049 --> 00:17:34.150 she was, she did that. And we still do that when 00:17:34.150 --> 00:17:37.750 we see. mass shooting and suicide. And we see 00:17:37.750 --> 00:17:39.970 where was the family? Where were the friends? 00:17:40.150 --> 00:17:43.630 Where were these people? And we also have to 00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:46.970 recognize that again, like I said, these people 00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:50.170 weren't screaming at the top of their lungs saying, 00:17:50.269 --> 00:17:52.589 I need your mental health support. Please get 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:56.289 me to a psychologist. So there's, we take that 00:17:56.289 --> 00:18:00.089 guilt on ourselves and that's how we learn. And 00:18:00.089 --> 00:18:03.069 that's the biggest thing that I can offer. any 00:18:03.069 --> 00:18:05.230 of your listeners, especially your educators, 00:18:05.369 --> 00:18:08.750 is just understanding. We don't know what we 00:18:08.750 --> 00:18:13.470 don't know until we need to know it. And sometimes 00:18:13.470 --> 00:18:16.289 we miss the mark and that happens. We're not 00:18:16.289 --> 00:18:19.450 perfect. If we were perfect, we would all be 00:18:19.450 --> 00:18:23.289 robots and the world would be very dull and uninteresting. 00:18:23.869 --> 00:18:26.650 But the reality of it is we're going to miss 00:18:26.650 --> 00:18:28.849 the mark. We're going to miss signs. We're going 00:18:28.849 --> 00:18:33.950 to not quite understand things. At the same time, 00:18:33.970 --> 00:18:36.549 we all should be seeing a therapist. I'm sorry, 00:18:36.630 --> 00:18:38.930 but I don't care how normal you think you are. 00:18:39.349 --> 00:18:42.869 You still should be seeing someone. Again, we 00:18:42.869 --> 00:18:45.670 go to the doctor on a yearly basis, sometimes 00:18:45.670 --> 00:18:49.349 every six months for checkups and check -ins. 00:18:49.470 --> 00:18:53.130 And it just makes sense to be at least maintaining 00:18:53.130 --> 00:18:56.410 your mental health in some way, shape or form. 00:18:56.470 --> 00:18:58.690 And I recognize some of you might be listening 00:18:58.690 --> 00:19:02.059 right now going. Yeah, there's no way I need 00:19:02.059 --> 00:19:04.619 that support. I understand that. And if you're 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:06.319 listening to this and you're still harboring 00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:09.359 guilt from something traumatic happening, recognize 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:12.359 that you could step into one of those roles too 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:16.019 and help other people through that. We all need 00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:19.019 to step up and support and help in our own ways. 00:19:19.099 --> 00:19:21.099 And whether that's starting a podcast or becoming 00:19:21.099 --> 00:19:25.019 a therapist or writing your story down, whether 00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:27.900 that is just... making it a point to reach out 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:30.940 to one friend a day. There's so many different 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:34.539 ways that you can unpack positive change in the 00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:39.079 world. We are healing generations of trauma right 00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:43.180 now that have been passed down over and over 00:19:43.180 --> 00:19:46.799 and over and over again. So we have to be patient 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.019 with ourselves. We have to understand that it's 00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:52.460 going to take a while. And we may not truly ever 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:56.000 see in our lifetimes, Joey and I's lifetimes, 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:58.779 but I do believe that it will be something that 00:19:58.779 --> 00:20:02.759 our kids get to participate in fully. We've had 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:04.859 some time at the beginning of our conversation 00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:07.640 here talking about pain. Let's go ahead and pivot 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.869 our conversation into solution and purpose. And 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:12.349 get a little bit more of the resilience coming 00:20:12.349 --> 00:20:15.109 in there. So I wanted you to talk with us a little 00:20:15.109 --> 00:20:17.150 bit about some of the work that you are doing 00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:20.170 in your professional space. And in doing so, 00:20:20.170 --> 00:20:24.029 how do you guide leaders and yourself as well 00:20:24.029 --> 00:20:27.349 with areas that might feel out of sync, such 00:20:27.349 --> 00:20:30.970 as work, passion, fulfillment? And how can our 00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:33.309 mindset help readjust what we're trying to accomplish? 00:20:33.769 --> 00:20:36.230 Yeah, I love that question. Listen, we're all. 00:20:36.859 --> 00:20:40.680 whole entire human beings, right? We're all whole 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:44.099 people who have many different areas and many 00:20:44.099 --> 00:20:47.619 facets of who we are, how we show up in the world, 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:50.380 what we experience, what we enjoy, the things 00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:53.619 we have to do that we don't even enjoy. And with 00:20:53.619 --> 00:20:57.980 that comes a level of care that has to happen 00:20:57.980 --> 00:21:01.690 for us to be okay. And so I've frequently been 00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:04.650 talking about the idea of work -life balance 00:21:04.650 --> 00:21:07.369 and how I want to remove the word work from that 00:21:07.369 --> 00:21:11.470 because it's not work -life balance. It's life 00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:16.829 balance, period, right? There's work is one tiny 00:21:16.829 --> 00:21:21.170 sliver of our pie and we make it so much about 00:21:21.170 --> 00:21:23.369 who we are. If you think about, if you go to 00:21:23.369 --> 00:21:25.849 a networking meeting and you meet with other 00:21:25.849 --> 00:21:29.690 people and they ask, hi, I'm so -and -so, what's 00:21:29.690 --> 00:21:32.109 your name? And you're like, oh, blah, blah, blah. 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:34.470 I'm Stephanie. And they're like, what do you 00:21:34.470 --> 00:21:37.890 do? That's the whole conversation. But that's 00:21:37.890 --> 00:21:40.910 not who we are. That's not what we're here to 00:21:40.910 --> 00:21:45.990 do. And I am so fortunate to be in a diverse 00:21:45.990 --> 00:21:49.470 set of communities and groups that remind me 00:21:49.470 --> 00:21:54.289 every single day that my purpose is quite literally 00:21:54.289 --> 00:21:58.359 simply to exist. And I talked a little bit about, 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:00.640 I didn't have a purpose when I was in the depths 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.640 of depression, but really our purpose is to experience 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:05.819 life. And that was one of the things that I was 00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:08.660 missing when I was in the depths of depression, 00:22:08.859 --> 00:22:11.339 because there was no experiencing life. It was, 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.859 I got up, I went to work, I came home. When I 00:22:14.859 --> 00:22:18.359 started coming out of depression, my life was 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.230 just full of dysfunction in general. I didn't 00:22:22.230 --> 00:22:25.170 realize that I hadn't been seeing color for a 00:22:25.170 --> 00:22:28.349 really, really long time. And so when I came 00:22:28.349 --> 00:22:31.390 out of my depression and I was just driving down 00:22:31.390 --> 00:22:34.329 the road, I suddenly started realizing that like, 00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:38.349 oh, there are all of these different shades of 00:22:38.349 --> 00:22:43.269 purple and blue and green. And even in the pavement, 00:22:43.289 --> 00:22:46.630 there were specks of black and grays and whites. 00:22:47.950 --> 00:22:49.970 you don't acknowledge and you don't see it. And 00:22:49.970 --> 00:22:53.950 when I first saw it, I was like, whoa. And then 00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:58.650 it's an overwhelming gratitude and appreciation. 00:22:58.930 --> 00:23:02.630 And then also just this abrupt recognition of 00:23:02.630 --> 00:23:05.049 the absolute dysfunction that you've just pulled 00:23:05.049 --> 00:23:08.730 yourself from, which is. It's a two -pronged 00:23:08.730 --> 00:23:11.390 thing, right? Because then on one hand, you grieve 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.109 what you didn't get to experience all of those 00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:16.289 years that you were in it. And then on the other 00:23:16.289 --> 00:23:19.250 hand, you're like, oh my gosh, this is what it's 00:23:19.250 --> 00:23:20.829 like. This is what I've been fighting for the 00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:23.630 last three, four, five, six, 10 years. So it 00:23:23.630 --> 00:23:27.890 was an interesting experience for sure. So what 00:23:27.890 --> 00:23:32.289 would you say to those who feel absolutely defined 00:23:32.289 --> 00:23:37.119 by what they do? If we're talking about teachers, 00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:40.859 right? Exactly. Yep. That is a huge part of your 00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:43.460 life. I don't think that there's a moment, I 00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:47.339 would assume anyway, that most teachers get up 00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:49.240 in the morning to the point that they go to bed 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:50.720 at night where they're not thinking about their 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:52.440 students. They're not thinking about their day. 00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:56.380 They're not planning things out. But, and as 00:23:56.380 --> 00:24:01.619 a teacher, you are one person and you have a 00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:06.240 whole life outside of teaching. And you may love 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.579 teaching and it may be completely defining who 00:24:08.579 --> 00:24:10.440 you are and it may be your life's mission to 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:13.000 deal with kids. But if schools closed down tomorrow, 00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:17.240 what would you do? And the one question I really 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:20.220 love to ask people when we think about what would 00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:25.980 we really want to do is if money, time, energy 00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:29.759 wasn't an issue, where would you go? What would 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.650 you do? Who would you see? What would that experience 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:36.589 look like if we didn't have to show up to work 00:24:36.589 --> 00:24:38.890 every single day? What would that experience 00:24:38.890 --> 00:24:40.910 look like? And most of the people who are listening 00:24:40.910 --> 00:24:43.069 who are teachers would find themselves back in 00:24:43.069 --> 00:24:45.450 that space where they would be teaching young 00:24:45.450 --> 00:24:47.650 children and they would be nurturing and they 00:24:47.650 --> 00:24:51.029 would be caring for people. But even nurturers 00:24:51.029 --> 00:24:53.269 and people who care for people and people who 00:24:53.269 --> 00:24:56.349 teach still need their own creative pursuits. 00:24:57.490 --> 00:25:01.190 It's something that I have had to learn. I don't 00:25:01.190 --> 00:25:03.950 want to say the hard way, but I've repeatedly 00:25:03.950 --> 00:25:08.069 learned that creativity is where the biggest 00:25:08.069 --> 00:25:12.809 part of our lessons come from as humans. And 00:25:12.809 --> 00:25:16.529 we have to be able to find the fun and the creative 00:25:16.529 --> 00:25:19.990 parts of life, even outside of our life's missions. 00:25:21.029 --> 00:25:24.089 Definitely. I appreciate that. And then when 00:25:24.089 --> 00:25:27.529 moving into the workspace in an era, especially 00:25:27.529 --> 00:25:31.150 of all different kinds of socio -political unrest, 00:25:31.509 --> 00:25:34.750 where mental health has really become a major 00:25:34.750 --> 00:25:38.170 visible prominence in front of us. How have you 00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:40.289 seen organizations really starting to either 00:25:40.289 --> 00:25:44.349 evolve or even fall short with responding to 00:25:44.349 --> 00:25:47.230 employee well -being? And what would you advise 00:25:47.230 --> 00:25:50.690 different companies as a way to really just address 00:25:50.690 --> 00:25:53.710 that stigma and embrace who's in front of them 00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:57.200 as employers? Really good question. And it is 00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:59.220 really a difficult topic right now. We're seeing 00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:04.019 a lot of attacks on mental health and DEI, neurodiversity. 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.000 There's a lot of conversations saying that we 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.559 shouldn't be embracing these things. The more 00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:12.920 that we push back against the idea that we have 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:14.799 to cater to our mental health and we have to 00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:17.240 embrace neurodiversity, the harder it's going 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:21.700 to be for us to resolve those issues. If there 00:26:21.700 --> 00:26:24.579 is an administrator listening or a leader in 00:26:24.579 --> 00:26:26.519 a corporation listening right now who's like, 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:28.900 I know that this is an issue. I've listened to 00:26:28.900 --> 00:26:30.640 this podcast. I know we need to be addressing 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.380 it, but I don't know how. It starts with you. 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.000 Period. It starts with you. It starts with you 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.259 doing the work to recognize your own traumas, 00:26:41.259 --> 00:26:44.519 your own need for healing, your own life balance, 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:47.740 the things that you need in your life. It starts 00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:50.559 with you taking the initiative to be open and 00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:53.319 vulnerable with the people that are in your organization, 00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:56.839 with your board of directors who's going to make 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.259 decisions. It starts with you being the advocate. 00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:04.359 And if you don't have an administrator listening, 00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:08.349 and you are a teacher in a school, or you are 00:27:08.349 --> 00:27:13.009 a sales associate in an organization, it also 00:27:13.009 --> 00:27:16.269 starts with you. That's where it has to happen. 00:27:16.410 --> 00:27:18.930 I think that this quote gets worn out, and I 00:27:18.930 --> 00:27:22.230 think it does because it's so true. But Gandhi 00:27:22.230 --> 00:27:24.569 said, we have to be the change we want to see 00:27:24.569 --> 00:27:28.730 in the world. And if we aren't being that change, 00:27:29.150 --> 00:27:34.230 why would anybody else change? If we aren't the 00:27:34.230 --> 00:27:37.170 person leading the charge through our own actions 00:27:37.170 --> 00:27:41.890 and behaviors and advocacy, no one else is going 00:27:41.890 --> 00:27:44.269 to take up that torch. And it has to do with 00:27:44.269 --> 00:27:45.930 your mental health too, right? Like if you're 00:27:45.930 --> 00:27:49.609 not the one who's taking action to get help and 00:27:49.609 --> 00:27:53.670 be happy, no one else is going to do that for 00:27:53.670 --> 00:27:57.269 you. So it really starts with us as the individual 00:27:57.269 --> 00:28:01.109 level. And then in our smaller communities, and 00:28:01.109 --> 00:28:05.329 then it goes from there. So I want to know if 00:28:05.329 --> 00:28:07.490 you can tell us a little bit about the work that 00:28:07.490 --> 00:28:09.470 you're also doing with Perspective Shifting LLC 00:28:09.470 --> 00:28:13.589 and some of your online resources that listeners 00:28:13.589 --> 00:28:15.890 can follow up with, including your Thrive Guide 00:28:15.890 --> 00:28:19.019 and other resources as well. Yeah. So we talk 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:21.200 about life balance, the Thrive Guide. It's all 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.900 about finding that and also a little bit about 00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:26.440 finding your purpose too. So I appreciate that 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:28.039 you mentioned that. That's one of my favorite 00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:30.099 tools. And I do that with clients. I do that 00:28:30.099 --> 00:28:33.400 with organizations and leaders. And it's really 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.180 part of my signature program, just understanding 00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:38.779 where we are and checking in and where we want 00:28:38.779 --> 00:28:41.839 to go. But that's a lot of what I do. The reason 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.279 I chose Perspective Shifting as the name for 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.380 my business is it's really helping people. to 00:28:47.380 --> 00:28:51.779 see a different perspective we whether it's personally 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:54.240 and in their lives i have a trauma -informed 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.779 coaching certification and a cognitive behavioral 00:28:56.779 --> 00:28:59.980 coaching certification and that comes up because 00:28:59.980 --> 00:29:02.480 as individuals we have whole lives and we're 00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:05.920 whole people and so dealing with that and helping 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:09.289 them to see the better side of them and sometimes 00:29:09.289 --> 00:29:11.970 see the things that they don't want to see about 00:29:11.970 --> 00:29:14.650 themselves that will help them grow. And I do 00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:17.990 that for organizations too. So helping them to 00:29:17.990 --> 00:29:21.470 understand the bigger picture, implement leadership 00:29:21.470 --> 00:29:23.450 development programs that help their leaders 00:29:23.450 --> 00:29:26.690 to connect with. individuals and connect with 00:29:26.690 --> 00:29:29.170 their staff and connect with their clients and 00:29:29.170 --> 00:29:31.710 helping entrepreneurs, which is really my sweet 00:29:31.710 --> 00:29:33.809 spot right now. I do speaking engagements and 00:29:33.809 --> 00:29:36.029 I do consulting for larger organizations, but 00:29:36.029 --> 00:29:37.809 my favorite thing to do right now is working 00:29:37.809 --> 00:29:41.329 with entrepreneurs who are mission -driven, dedicated 00:29:41.329 --> 00:29:44.130 to rebelling against systems that we have and 00:29:44.130 --> 00:29:48.009 disrupting spaces so we can rebuild better and 00:29:48.009 --> 00:29:50.529 just helping them to remember that you can be 00:29:50.529 --> 00:29:54.009 mission -driven all day long. But you have to 00:29:54.009 --> 00:29:56.109 take time for yourself. You have to be your own 00:29:56.109 --> 00:29:58.809 person. And again, we have to lead by example. 00:29:58.910 --> 00:30:00.869 We have to show up in the ways that we want to. 00:30:00.970 --> 00:30:04.670 So you can find any of those resources on my 00:30:04.670 --> 00:30:08.349 websites. So stephaniekunkle.com is my website 00:30:08.349 --> 00:30:10.390 where you can find more information about me 00:30:10.390 --> 00:30:13.170 and the specific services that I offer. And then 00:30:13.170 --> 00:30:15.910 Perspective Shifters. Think about it as a person. 00:30:16.490 --> 00:30:19.670 PerspectiveShifters .com is my company website. 00:30:20.380 --> 00:30:23.019 And you'll find resources on how to connect with 00:30:23.019 --> 00:30:26.000 us and some of the amazing people we have in 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.180 our community that do really awesome speaking 00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:32.160 engagements and trainings. And then we just rebranded 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.460 and relaunched the Rebel Dream Lab, which is 00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:36.299 a place for entrepreneurs to be able to come 00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:39.160 and get support, especially entrepreneurs who 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.619 are really trying to disrupt and are mission 00:30:41.619 --> 00:30:45.720 driven and helping other people to make big change. 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:49.000 Those links will also be available in our show 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:51.339 notes as well. Stephanie, thank you so much again 00:30:51.339 --> 00:30:53.380 for sharing your wisdom and your warmth with 00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:56.319 us today and your ability to reframe burnout, 00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:59.299 leadership, and self -alignment as opportunities 00:30:59.299 --> 00:31:02.079 for growth over guilt is really a breath of fresh 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:04.380 air for us. For those of us listening here who 00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:06.720 want to continue learning from Stephanie's work, 00:31:06.859 --> 00:31:09.319 be sure to check out Perspective Shifting LLC. 00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:13.720 follow her online, and dive into her Thrive Guide 00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:16.380 and Leadership Resources. So until next time, 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:19.440 keep leading with compassion, stay open to the 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.539 shift, and remember that clarity isn't a destination, 00:31:22.700 --> 00:31:26.259 but rather it's a daily practice. Thank you for 00:31:26.259 --> 00:31:28.440 joining us on the Classroom Narratives Healing 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:31.299 and Education Podcast. If today's episode inspired 00:31:31.299 --> 00:31:33.920 you or made you think differently, I'd love to 00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.640 hear from you. Drop a comment or review. wherever 00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.039 you listen to podcasts, and stay connected with 00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.880 us on the At Classroom Narratives podcast over 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.160 Instagram and Facebook. Remember, together we 00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:47.859 can transform our scars into stars in education, 00:31:48.220 --> 00:31:50.519 one conversation at a time.