WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.419 Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing in 00:00:02.419 --> 00:00:04.900 Education podcast, the space where education 00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:09.019 meets resilience. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in 00:00:09.019 --> 00:00:11.400 each episode, we dive deep into the personal 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:15.099 stories of educators, students, leaders, and 00:00:15.099 --> 00:00:18.079 frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:21.260 within modern education. Whether you're just 00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:23.879 starting your teaching journey, or are we seasoned 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:26.260 professionals looking for inspiration, we'll 00:00:26.260 --> 00:00:29.059 explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent 00:00:29.059 --> 00:00:31.859 burnout, and build trauma -informed communities 00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:34.979 within our schools. Now, let's take a seat at 00:00:34.979 --> 00:00:36.859 the front of the classroom as we get started. 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:39.179 Thanks so much for tuning in today, everyone. 00:00:39.340 --> 00:00:42.240 I'm so privileged to welcome my guest, Traci 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:46.159 Molloy, who is a Brooklyn -based artist. educator, 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:49.719 and activist who has spent over two decades using 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:52.799 art to help young people process trauma and reclaim 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.420 their voices. Her large -scale collaborations 00:00:55.420 --> 00:00:59.880 with adolescents from 9 -11 survivors to youth 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:02.979 affected by poverty, violence, and displacement 00:01:02.979 --> 00:01:06.319 have been exhibited at the United Nations, the 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.900 Pentagon, and the CDC and are held in the collection 00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:14.090 of the 9 -11 Memorial and Museum as well. Traci's 00:01:14.090 --> 00:01:17.030 teaching centers on using art to raise awareness 00:01:17.030 --> 00:01:20.129 around trauma, promote social justice, and foster 00:01:20.129 --> 00:01:22.209 collective healing in schools and communities. 00:01:22.569 --> 00:01:25.530 Whether she's leading school -wide projects and 00:01:25.530 --> 00:01:28.230 overseeing curriculum, working through large 00:01:28.230 --> 00:01:30.329 -scale collective art projects with grief survivors, 00:01:30.590 --> 00:01:33.489 and speaking nationally on the power of art. 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:36.540 Traci guides young individuals and trauma survivors 00:01:36.540 --> 00:01:38.980 in helping them find their voices through art 00:01:38.980 --> 00:01:42.040 and communicating really profound thoughts about 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.439 grief, violence, racism, economic injustice, 00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:49.980 bullying, hope, and love while doing so. So we're 00:01:49.980 --> 00:01:53.079 here today to talk about art, grief, education, 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.159 and how collective creation can be a lifeline 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.700 for students and maybe even for the educators 00:01:58.700 --> 00:02:01.359 who guide them as well. So I introduced myself 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.159 to Traci when attending public evening programming 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.500 at the 9 -11 Memorial and Museum back in March 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:11.080 of 2025. And the program that I attended was 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:14.780 called, "Through Their Eyes, Therapeutic Art for 00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:18.060 Grieving Children..' And the program was an exploration 00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:21.159 of the role of art making and art therapy as 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:23.939 a way to process grief and trauma in the wake 00:02:23.939 --> 00:02:27.120 of 9 -11. And Traci attended that discussion 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:31.180 as a panelist representing America's Camp as 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:34.159 their artist in residence. A second member on 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.900 the panel was clinical psychologist and World 00:02:36.900 --> 00:02:40.319 Trade Center Family Center consultant, Dr. Tom 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:42.860 DeMaria. And we're going to have a link to Tom's 00:02:42.860 --> 00:02:46.409 segment in the show as well, as Tom also had 00:02:46.409 --> 00:02:48.289 a chance to speak with us on the podcast here 00:02:48.289 --> 00:02:52.729 back in May of 2025. Both connecting as well 00:02:52.729 --> 00:02:55.990 as joining Traci and Tom on the panel was Amy 00:02:55.990 --> 00:02:59.830 Gardner, whose father, FDNY firefighter Thomas 00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:02.870 A. Gardner, was killed on 9 -11 when she was 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:05.949 only nine years old. Amy attended America's Camp 00:03:05.949 --> 00:03:09.069 as a camper and a counselor. i wanted to also 00:03:09.069 --> 00:03:11.430 mention that attending the panel featuring Traci, 00:03:11.430 --> 00:03:14.990 Tom, and Amy was absolutely like witnessing a 00:03:14.990 --> 00:03:17.090 homecoming because I could just see that there 00:03:17.090 --> 00:03:19.949 was so much love and energy in that room from 00:03:19.949 --> 00:03:22.229 Traci's former campers who when they worked with 00:03:22.229 --> 00:03:25.150 Traci she said during the presentation were maybe 00:03:25.150 --> 00:03:28.389 about ten years old around-ish maybe a little 00:03:28.389 --> 00:03:30.469 bit older, a little bit younger, which only means 00:03:30.469 --> 00:03:32.750 that now they are all in their 30s and established 00:03:32.750 --> 00:03:35.449 adults. And to see them all come back to Traci 00:03:35.449 --> 00:03:39.110 after decades and just celebrate their growth 00:03:39.110 --> 00:03:42.069 alongside her and reunite with her was really 00:03:42.069 --> 00:03:46.009 touching to see as an audience member. So Traci, 00:03:46.129 --> 00:03:48.210 I wanted to see if you could start by telling 00:03:48.210 --> 00:03:51.810 us a little bit more about what America's Camp 00:03:51.810 --> 00:03:54.590 is and some of the different factors that have 00:03:54.909 --> 00:03:56.710 shaped your moments when working with surviving 00:03:56.710 --> 00:03:59.590 children of 9 -11? So America's Camp, it no longer 00:03:59.590 --> 00:04:02.750 exists. It existed for 10 years. The first year 00:04:02.750 --> 00:04:09.330 of camp was 2002. So it ran from 2002 to 2011. 00:04:09.949 --> 00:04:14.069 I first came to camp in 2003. So I was there 00:04:14.069 --> 00:04:18.709 2003 through 2007. And then I returned in 2011. 00:04:19.029 --> 00:04:22.290 And I facilitated six collaborations. So it was 00:04:22.290 --> 00:04:25.639 a camp for children. who lost parents on 9 -11 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.240 or poor children whose parents were first responders 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:32.439 that were killed in the line of duty. And I believe 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.639 the first year of camp, there were maybe 70 kids. 00:04:35.819 --> 00:04:39.620 And then each subsequent year, it got higher 00:04:39.620 --> 00:04:42.279 and higher. And then it plateaued and it started 00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.959 to decrease in numbers. And the reason for that 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.920 is there were just so many children. So at the 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:51.899 10 -year mark, the children that were in utero 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:56.029 were... 10 years old. And so there were not going 00:04:56.029 --> 00:05:00.129 to be more children coming in. At the camp's 00:05:00.129 --> 00:05:03.790 height, there was probably 400 kids and maybe 00:05:03.790 --> 00:05:07.430 another 150 to 200 staffers. And some of the 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:11.029 staff were former campers who had come back to 00:05:11.029 --> 00:05:12.949 become counselors and counselors in training. 00:05:13.430 --> 00:05:16.149 Could you describe the process of creating collective 00:05:16.149 --> 00:05:19.009 art pieces through America's Camp? So these projects 00:05:19.009 --> 00:05:21.689 were very large. You'd have seven days with the 00:05:21.689 --> 00:05:23.670 kids and you'd be on campus maybe eight or nine 00:05:23.670 --> 00:05:27.170 days. And I would do workshops. So all during 00:05:27.170 --> 00:05:29.569 the day, the kids would come and they would make 00:05:29.569 --> 00:05:31.610 the work. And then at night, I'd have to construct 00:05:31.610 --> 00:05:33.990 these pieces. We had the opportunity to have 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:37.629 the show. And while the show was up, folks from 00:05:37.629 --> 00:05:40.529 the 9 -11 Museum, which did not exist at this 00:05:40.529 --> 00:05:43.209 point. So the museum wasn't even formed. It was 00:05:43.209 --> 00:05:45.829 a concept that it was going to happen. They were 00:05:45.829 --> 00:05:49.730 invited up to see the art. And Jan Ramirez, who 00:05:49.730 --> 00:05:52.250 was actually on the panel, she was the moderator, 00:05:52.509 --> 00:05:55.329 was one of the initial individuals that came 00:05:55.329 --> 00:05:59.250 to see the work. And they wanted it. They wanted 00:05:59.250 --> 00:06:02.569 everything. And I remember the phone call. I 00:06:02.569 --> 00:06:05.089 started crying because I was like, oh my God, 00:06:05.110 --> 00:06:09.170 this is my dream. This work belongs to the America's 00:06:09.170 --> 00:06:10.910 Camp community, but it belongs to the world. 00:06:11.110 --> 00:06:13.329 Because I knew at the time when I was making 00:06:13.329 --> 00:06:15.449 the work with the kids, we were documenting history. 00:06:16.110 --> 00:06:18.970 I was going to document grief as it shifted. 00:06:19.110 --> 00:06:23.050 And we were going to have these pieces that could 00:06:23.050 --> 00:06:27.189 maybe shift the way people think about how to 00:06:27.189 --> 00:06:28.990 make collaborative art, how to make collective 00:06:28.990 --> 00:06:32.629 art, and frankly, how to work with kids. Because 00:06:32.629 --> 00:06:36.149 usually people poo -poo any artwork that kids 00:06:36.149 --> 00:06:38.410 have been involved with. I love that the work 00:06:38.410 --> 00:06:40.110 that you've done through America's Camp really 00:06:40.110 --> 00:06:43.089 gave children a voice. So tell us a little bit 00:06:43.089 --> 00:06:45.089 more about what it was like to actually work 00:06:45.089 --> 00:06:47.709 with America's Camp. I think one of the misconceptions 00:06:47.709 --> 00:06:50.230 about America's Camp is people think it must 00:06:50.230 --> 00:06:52.529 have been really sad, like it must have been 00:06:52.529 --> 00:06:55.170 a terrible place. And it was the exact opposite. 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:58.009 I experienced more joy at America's Camp than 00:06:58.009 --> 00:06:59.970 anywhere else in my life. I would get goosebumps 00:06:59.970 --> 00:07:03.629 literally from joy. So to have the opportunity 00:07:03.629 --> 00:07:07.310 to celebrate the kids. to celebrate the sort 00:07:07.310 --> 00:07:10.230 of magical place and the art that was facilitated. 00:07:10.990 --> 00:07:14.029 That was awesome. I've known these kids longer 00:07:14.029 --> 00:07:16.569 than their deceased parent. I had the privilege 00:07:16.569 --> 00:07:19.769 of watching them grow up. I get to see them as 00:07:19.769 --> 00:07:24.029 incredible adults. And as a parent, I just know 00:07:24.029 --> 00:07:26.290 what a big deal that is and how heartbreaking 00:07:26.290 --> 00:07:29.930 it is that their lost parent didn't get to experience 00:07:29.930 --> 00:07:33.930 that. And that responsibility is huge. I know 00:07:33.930 --> 00:07:35.949 I'm not the only one in the America's Camp community 00:07:35.949 --> 00:07:39.769 that really takes that seriously. I think about 00:07:39.769 --> 00:07:42.310 that a lot. I think about the first time I heard 00:07:42.310 --> 00:07:44.870 it actually was at America's Camp. And it was 00:07:44.870 --> 00:07:49.189 when camp was coming to an end and the directors 00:07:49.189 --> 00:07:51.850 opened up the floor to ask kids, did they want 00:07:51.850 --> 00:07:54.610 to share things? And this young boy stood up 00:07:54.610 --> 00:07:56.889 and he said, I've known you longer than my dad. 00:07:57.370 --> 00:08:00.730 And to the men in the space and like, you guys 00:08:00.730 --> 00:08:03.980 have taught me what it means to be a man. And 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:06.519 then I started thinking, wow, I've known these 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:10.600 kids longer and that. I mean, it's intense and 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.860 you don't get to walk away. Right. Like a lot 00:08:13.860 --> 00:08:15.819 of this work. I think one of the things that's 00:08:15.819 --> 00:08:19.459 really interesting about what I do is in instances 00:08:19.459 --> 00:08:22.920 I go into communities or sometimes I'm part of 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:25.560 communities for extended periods of time. And 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:27.819 you're working with people when they're extraordinarily 00:08:27.819 --> 00:08:30.879 vulnerable. You're trying to assist and transform 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.159 the trauma, but you're also trying to allow people 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:37.980 to remember that love is still present. Love 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:41.240 exists. And can they connect with another human 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:44.299 being? Can they foster that trust? And in some 00:08:44.299 --> 00:08:46.120 instances, you're connected to these people for 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:49.679 life. What are some particular moments or memories 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:52.480 that you remember from being at America's Camp 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.409 with those children that has really shaped The 00:08:55.409 --> 00:08:57.330 work you've been doing for the two decades since 00:08:57.330 --> 00:09:01.850 then. Man, there's so many memories. I'll share 00:09:01.850 --> 00:09:04.669 a couple stories related to The Phoenix. The 00:09:04.669 --> 00:09:10.250 Phoenix is about a 15 by 20 by 8 foot giant paper 00:09:10.250 --> 00:09:15.769 mache bird sculpture. And the interior is a wooden 00:09:15.769 --> 00:09:20.529 frame. And the exterior is comprised of these 00:09:20.529 --> 00:09:24.970 feathers that started out as 12 by 12 inch. paintings. 00:09:25.149 --> 00:09:30.070 It's watercolor crayon on paper. And the paintings 00:09:30.070 --> 00:09:32.950 were then converted into these feather shapes. 00:09:33.169 --> 00:09:36.669 And each feather was made by a child who attended 00:09:36.669 --> 00:09:40.070 America's camp. So the underbelly of the bird 00:09:40.070 --> 00:09:43.610 has about just under 400 feathers. And then the 00:09:43.610 --> 00:09:46.690 backside of the bird has about between 150 and 00:09:46.690 --> 00:09:50.629 200 feathers. And so at the time of The Phoenix, 00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:54.210 Harry Potter was very popular. And we had gone 00:09:54.210 --> 00:09:57.009 on a tangent around Greek mythology at camp. 00:09:57.129 --> 00:10:00.169 The year prior, I had made a piece called Apollo's 00:10:00.169 --> 00:10:04.210 Ascent. And Apollo in Greek mythology is also 00:10:04.210 --> 00:10:07.070 connected to the phoenix. So one of the things 00:10:07.070 --> 00:10:11.570 I said to the kids during my little sort of unveiling 00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:16.129 of the phoenix was we talked about how when Apollo 00:10:16.129 --> 00:10:20.389 is carrying the sun and every day around noontime, 00:10:20.470 --> 00:10:23.740 the sun freezes in the sky. And it's this one 00:10:23.740 --> 00:10:26.620 thick spot and then it starts its descent. And 00:10:26.620 --> 00:10:29.659 in mythology, the story is the Phoenix is singing 00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:33.399 its song and the song is so beautiful that Apollo 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.580 stops to listen to the song each day. And then 00:10:37.580 --> 00:10:40.940 when The Phoenix stops singing, the sun moves 00:10:40.940 --> 00:10:44.120 on its way. And so what I talked to the kids 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.659 and I said, I hope someday, you know, when you 00:10:46.659 --> 00:10:48.460 leave here, you look up and you see the sun. 00:10:49.049 --> 00:10:51.570 you think about the phoenix singing her song 00:10:51.570 --> 00:10:54.590 and you remember the beauty that you've all created. 00:10:54.809 --> 00:10:57.049 So one of the things that's very important to 00:10:57.049 --> 00:11:01.409 me is empowering the kids and recognizing I may 00:11:01.409 --> 00:11:04.070 have facilitated and designed all these projects, 00:11:04.149 --> 00:11:07.610 but the power of this work comes from the art 00:11:07.610 --> 00:11:10.529 that was made by them. So when The Phoenix was 00:11:10.529 --> 00:11:14.509 created, I worked with young college students. 00:11:14.549 --> 00:11:16.669 I want to acknowledge that America's Camp brought 00:11:16.669 --> 00:11:19.529 in folks literally from around the world. And 00:11:19.529 --> 00:11:22.590 everyone volunteered their time to do this, myself 00:11:22.590 --> 00:11:26.350 included, to create this work. And we had this 00:11:26.350 --> 00:11:30.090 idea that how can we make the phoenix symbolically 00:11:30.090 --> 00:11:32.590 burst into flames? Because that would be really 00:11:32.590 --> 00:11:35.250 cool. And so we decided to make it glow in the 00:11:35.250 --> 00:11:37.730 dark. Well, no one knew that this was going to 00:11:37.730 --> 00:11:39.970 happen, except for those of us working on the 00:11:39.970 --> 00:11:42.490 project. That's incredibly powerful symbolism. 00:11:42.529 --> 00:11:44.830 Thank you for sharing that. So then what was 00:11:44.830 --> 00:11:47.230 the children's reaction when they saw The Phoenix 00:11:47.230 --> 00:11:49.009 for the first time? Can you take us back to that 00:11:49.009 --> 00:11:51.990 moment? So the last night of camp, we had all 00:11:51.990 --> 00:11:54.730 the kids there and they were in this dark space 00:11:54.730 --> 00:11:58.230 and we had three spotlights on the bird. And 00:11:58.230 --> 00:12:01.409 we had, as tradition, the year before, we had 00:12:01.409 --> 00:12:04.830 some folks from New Zealand did the haka, which 00:12:04.830 --> 00:12:07.110 is a Maori. I don't know if you would say it's 00:12:07.110 --> 00:12:09.950 a dance or a chant. It becomes sort of transcendent. 00:12:09.990 --> 00:12:12.629 So just in terms of the arts, you're setting 00:12:12.629 --> 00:12:15.450 up an experience where it becomes visceral. We're 00:12:15.450 --> 00:12:17.610 there and we have these three spotlights on the 00:12:17.610 --> 00:12:20.789 piece and the guys do the haka and I get up and 00:12:20.789 --> 00:12:23.990 I tell my little spiel about the piece. And then 00:12:23.990 --> 00:12:28.929 we cut the lights and all of a sudden The Phoenix 00:12:28.929 --> 00:12:32.070 is glowing and we have it on a cable and we're 00:12:32.070 --> 00:12:34.990 like slowly raising it up. And the bird starts 00:12:34.990 --> 00:12:38.409 to swing. It just starts to move. And you just 00:12:38.409 --> 00:12:40.889 hear the whole audience. I mean, I'm telling 00:12:40.889 --> 00:12:42.629 the story right now and I've got goosebumps. 00:12:43.669 --> 00:12:47.990 And the whole audience, like it just, it just 00:12:47.990 --> 00:12:52.149 froze. It was just like magic. Magic happened 00:12:52.149 --> 00:12:55.110 because the bird is glowing and the parts that 00:12:55.110 --> 00:12:57.529 are glowing are its eyes and all the feathers. 00:12:57.750 --> 00:13:00.590 And that's what all the kids made. And it just 00:13:00.590 --> 00:13:03.389 starts, it's like it's moving and it's like looking 00:13:03.389 --> 00:13:05.789 at everyone and it's raising up. And I'm telling 00:13:05.789 --> 00:13:09.750 you, it was the most incredible artistic moment 00:13:09.750 --> 00:13:12.110 of my life. Incredible. Thank you for sharing 00:13:12.110 --> 00:13:14.649 this powerful moment with us, Traci. And to our 00:13:14.649 --> 00:13:16.789 listeners, please check out Traci's provided 00:13:16.789 --> 00:13:19.149 photographs of the Phoenix linked here in our 00:13:19.149 --> 00:13:22.309 show notes. Okay. So now we have a good sense 00:13:22.309 --> 00:13:25.450 of what the artistic process was like in spaces 00:13:25.450 --> 00:13:28.490 for healing, such as America's Camp. Now on a 00:13:28.490 --> 00:13:31.000 similar topic. What would you say happens then 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.080 to children neurologically when they're going 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:37.259 through the process of art design and art creation? 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.019 And what are they holding on to from before versus 00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:43.759 after they complete a piece of art as you've 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:47.120 seen it? And also, what can you share about what 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:49.779 you have witnessed around how working in communities 00:13:49.779 --> 00:13:53.899 is beneficial for trauma survivors? So I think 00:13:53.899 --> 00:13:56.720 one of the things, and this is across the board, 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.370 so this isn't like. I've worked in, obviously, 00:14:00.470 --> 00:14:02.789 the community with 9 -11 kids. Folks understand 00:14:02.789 --> 00:14:05.889 what happened. But I'm also thinking about, I've 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:09.509 worked extensively in Appalachian, Ohio, in communities 00:14:09.509 --> 00:14:13.029 where opioids and addiction have had profound 00:14:13.029 --> 00:14:15.730 impact on kids. In communities where systemic 00:14:15.730 --> 00:14:19.330 poverty, systemic racism, right, all these things 00:14:19.330 --> 00:14:22.690 that are much harder to recognize but are very 00:14:22.690 --> 00:14:26.190 palpable, right, to, like, you have the big-T 00:14:26.190 --> 00:14:29.679 trauma. Right. 9 -11. You know exactly what it 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:32.320 is versus the little-t trauma, which is like 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.700 the drip, drip, drip of poverty, the drip, drip, 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.980 drip of racism, the drip, drip, drip of lack 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:39.259 of health care, mental health care, physical 00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:42.779 health care. So what happens? The most important 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:45.940 thing is when you have folks working in community, 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:48.600 they start to recognize that they are not alone. 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.639 They are not isolated with these emotions. They 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.860 have other people that understand their lived 00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:59.139 experiences. And I'll use America's Camp as an 00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:03.320 example. And this is a little grim, but this 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:09.200 is true. So the kids would be working and I'm 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.980 just doing my thing. And my job is, how can I 00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:14.679 help you make the best image that you want to 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.539 make? So I don't draw on anyone's drawings. I 00:15:17.539 --> 00:15:20.259 just, I listen to what you're saying. And then 00:15:20.259 --> 00:15:23.559 if I can offer artistic guidance, I will. But 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.639 often you just kind of let. You give people the 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:27.399 framework and then they go and then they'll, 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.600 they want it to be good. So I'm happy to give 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:36.639 aesthetic feedback. So the kids, I remember this 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.059 was like in the earlier years too, they were 00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:42.480 talking about, do you think your parent fell? 00:15:42.700 --> 00:15:45.799 Do you think they jumped? Oh, I think my mom 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:52.059 or dad had jumped and here's why. And that is 00:15:52.059 --> 00:15:56.860 so dark. That is so incredibly difficult to have 00:15:56.860 --> 00:16:00.220 to bear witness to and not react to. But as they 00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:03.580 were saying it, they were like, oh yeah, yeah, 00:16:03.659 --> 00:16:05.940 I think this, you know, like they were connecting 00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:12.100 to each other or how much, again, I recognize 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:15.679 this is really very difficult content. How much 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.960 of your dad did you bury? That is horrible stuff. 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.960 But in that shared space. they could talk about 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:27.179 this because they couldn't talk about it in their 00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:29.879 school community. And they couldn't talk about 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.919 it even in their home because in their home, 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:36.679 the children were instinctually trying to protect 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.679 their surviving parent. So a lot of it is you 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.860 become that good child where you don't want to 00:16:44.860 --> 00:16:47.620 make things difficult on the parent because you 00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:49.899 can see their grief. So you don't want to talk 00:16:49.899 --> 00:16:52.629 about. the hard stuff or ask the questions. But 00:16:52.629 --> 00:16:56.269 in this space, you can do that. There were stories 00:16:56.269 --> 00:16:58.490 that were shared that were extraordinarily difficult 00:16:58.490 --> 00:17:01.990 to bear witness to, but also just, I'm just, 00:17:02.049 --> 00:17:06.329 man, I'm like constantly humbled and just, I 00:17:06.329 --> 00:17:07.990 don't even, I'm not going to get emotional. I 00:17:07.990 --> 00:17:10.569 don't even know how to say it, but people are 00:17:10.569 --> 00:17:14.009 so vulnerable. And I just, these stories that 00:17:14.009 --> 00:17:17.250 I've been gifted, I want to, they're sacred and 00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:19.660 I want to do them. justice and I want to do their 00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:23.079 artwork justice and it just feels like such a 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:27.140 sense of responsibility to to do the best that 00:17:27.140 --> 00:17:31.299 I can to make these pieces in honor of the folks 00:17:31.299 --> 00:17:34.019 that that were killed and in honor of the folks 00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:36.559 that are still here celebrating the folks that 00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:38.660 are not here. One of the things I think is very 00:17:38.660 --> 00:17:40.700 funny about trauma is trauma is going to win 00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:43.799 right yeah you do not have to invite trauma to 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.609 the party trauma Trauma comes, but you do have 00:17:47.609 --> 00:17:50.990 to invite joy. You do have to invite hope. And 00:17:50.990 --> 00:17:54.369 so if I segue for a second, a lot of what I try 00:17:54.369 --> 00:17:56.869 to do with the collective art projects that I 00:17:56.869 --> 00:18:00.230 facilitate is to bring in hope, to bring in joy, 00:18:00.430 --> 00:18:04.390 to give opportunity for resiliency to shine because 00:18:04.390 --> 00:18:07.970 trauma's there. Trauma's coming. Like they're 00:18:07.970 --> 00:18:10.349 the unwanted guests and trauma's always present. 00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:14.660 And trying to deny it, trauma's still coming. 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:16.900 I was also wondering, so with the work you're 00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:19.200 doing within schools, so you have spent many 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:21.319 years working inside our schools as well, especially 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:24.460 the Title I's and the transfer schools. And you've 00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:27.019 been working with them to design trauma -informed 00:18:27.019 --> 00:18:30.380 artistic experiences. And what have these collaborations 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:34.980 taught you about the emotional worlds that young 00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:38.660 people are carrying into our classrooms? What 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:41.259 have you learned that students truly need that 00:18:41.259 --> 00:18:43.339 maybe they either have and can grow more further 00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:47.000 into or are lacking from our schools about what 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.839 they should get back after they return from crisis? 00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:53.200 That's a big question, too. I think for me, most 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:57.900 notably would be post -COVID work. I worked for 00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:01.119 12 years at a school in the Bronx and running 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:03.380 art programs. And then most recently, I've been 00:19:03.380 --> 00:19:06.019 working in Queens, in Elmhurst, Queens, at a 00:19:06.019 --> 00:19:09.769 transfer school. And Elmhurst was hit really 00:19:09.769 --> 00:19:13.710 hard by the pandemic. And the kids that I work 00:19:13.710 --> 00:19:16.910 with and still work with, they are, some of them 00:19:16.910 --> 00:19:20.329 are older high school students. So they had to 00:19:20.329 --> 00:19:22.789 get jobs during the pandemic because maybe they 00:19:22.789 --> 00:19:26.049 had a family member who was sick or most of the, 00:19:26.049 --> 00:19:28.609 almost everyone at that school knew someone that 00:19:28.609 --> 00:19:32.150 died as a result of the pandemic. And they couldn't 00:19:32.150 --> 00:19:34.309 maybe go to class because they had to babysit 00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:38.079 because their parent. was going to work. And 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:43.039 yeah, so I think the biggest, the most important 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:47.539 thing was the community was fractured. So kids' 00:19:47.660 --> 00:19:51.819 sense of place and sense of connection within 00:19:51.819 --> 00:19:56.000 place and space was broken. So how do you slowly 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.539 reenter? And so we did art. And I have to applaud 00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:04.210 a principal who said, I don't want to go back 00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:06.289 to school and pretend nothing happened. I don't 00:20:06.289 --> 00:20:08.390 want to start school this way. He reached out 00:20:08.390 --> 00:20:11.809 to me and said, can you help with our faculty 00:20:11.809 --> 00:20:15.569 first? Can you help them? And then can we do 00:20:15.569 --> 00:20:18.390 something for the kids? And I said, yes. So that 00:20:18.390 --> 00:20:21.630 summer we did workshops with all the faculty 00:20:21.630 --> 00:20:25.849 and staff, figuring out ways to help them be 00:20:25.849 --> 00:20:28.349 able to reenter school because the year that 00:20:28.349 --> 00:20:31.839 everything was essentially from home. There were 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.900 some teachers that were in the building and some 00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.299 teachers due to medical issues that were not. 00:20:37.339 --> 00:20:40.339 And that would cause resentment. Some educators 00:20:40.339 --> 00:20:42.400 felt like literally they're risking their life 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:46.000 being at school because of mandates. And other 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.160 people were also risking their life because maybe 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.460 they had different health complications. So I 00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:53.559 needed to foster that community. The kids, when 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.480 they got back, there was so much fear, so much 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.930 fear. And I think that would be true. no matter 00:21:00.930 --> 00:21:03.890 what the situation was. And again, I can use 00:21:03.890 --> 00:21:06.150 COVID because I haven't worked in a school post, 00:21:06.250 --> 00:21:09.289 like you were in Parkland post a mass shooting. 00:21:09.349 --> 00:21:12.069 So you have an idea of some of that horrendous 00:21:12.069 --> 00:21:16.089 anxiety, right? There was terrible anxiety. There 00:21:16.089 --> 00:21:18.670 were people that had lost loved ones. We needed 00:21:18.670 --> 00:21:22.990 to give space to be able to make art and process. 00:21:23.170 --> 00:21:25.650 And the kids felt like they were so grateful 00:21:25.650 --> 00:21:29.650 because it gave them a chance to share, to talk. 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:32.140 And to slowly get to know each other because 00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:34.359 they had forgotten how to be in the same room 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:40.119 or all of that, that stuff is so important. And 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:44.240 I will also add, I think one of the things that 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.160 people forgot was how to play, right? How to 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:51.039 have fun, how to be silly together and very slowly. 00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:53.579 So now over the arc of the four years that I've 00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:55.299 been working with a school, I've seen extraordinary 00:21:55.299 --> 00:21:58.819 growth. So I work with all the counselors. I 00:21:58.819 --> 00:22:00.599 work with all the staff at the school and I work 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:02.700 with all the teachers. These are not art teachers, 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.480 right? Like you got math teachers and science 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:07.819 teachers working on art projects. They all have 00:22:07.819 --> 00:22:11.279 to do it. And then we do these huge school -wide 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:16.200 projects and they are co -teaching along with 00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:19.619 me. So like the whole school shuts down and this 00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:22.220 is what we do. And it's been transformative. 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:25.769 Kids come to school. in order to do the art projects. 00:22:25.990 --> 00:22:30.470 I don't know if statistically there's been improvement, 00:22:30.630 --> 00:22:32.410 and that's something I need to do research on 00:22:32.410 --> 00:22:34.970 because, again, it's speculative at this point. 00:22:35.069 --> 00:22:37.730 If there's improvement in graduation rates, if 00:22:37.730 --> 00:22:40.269 there's improvement in attendance. This school 00:22:40.269 --> 00:22:42.730 is a school for kids who have failed out of traditional 00:22:42.730 --> 00:22:46.009 school. They have massive struggles. Many of 00:22:46.009 --> 00:22:48.430 them, English is not their first language. Many 00:22:48.430 --> 00:22:50.170 of them have profound learning disabilities. 00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:53.740 Lots of difficult traumas. A lot of them have 00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:57.279 already lost a parent. Some of them have experienced 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.160 incarceration. Some of them are parents that 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.779 have given birth to children. So you're dealing 00:23:02.779 --> 00:23:08.599 with complications that are really big. And what 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:11.359 happens neurologically? What happens inside the 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.039 brain? One of the things that I try to do with 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.720 the art projects is we try to set up two things. 00:23:16.859 --> 00:23:20.680 One, you want to have play and have fun. cultivates 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.160 bonding but the second thing is we want to calm 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:28.720 so the last few years I've been asked to co -design 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:32.019 the foundations curriculum which meets after 00:23:32.019 --> 00:23:34.480 lunch so we're trying to set up a transition 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.279 so when the kids come back from lunch people 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.160 are often hyped and so how do you set up the 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.099 classroom space so that they enter into this 00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:46.200 space and then we're going to have a few minutes 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:47.980 to transition and then we're going to make these 00:23:47.980 --> 00:23:52.400 art pieces And what I'm finding is, in particular, 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:57.099 projects that work with hands, for example, using 00:23:57.099 --> 00:23:59.779 clay or anything that's particularly tactile, 00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:05.839 really helps to soothe and calm. And because 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:10.380 our education system nationally has devalued 00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:13.680 the arts, you have kids that haven't had experiences 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.900 with clay or with paint. So they regress. They 00:24:17.900 --> 00:24:20.519 become like young children touching this for 00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:23.660 the first time. And they need to do that. They 00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:25.779 need to regress. And I say to teachers, let it 00:24:25.779 --> 00:24:28.279 happen. Let it happen. If the kids need to put 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.359 the paint on their hands and do this, yes, I 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.640 know it's ridiculous, but they need to finger 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:36.579 paint because they didn't do it before. And they 00:24:36.579 --> 00:24:39.599 need to connect to that part that didn't get 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.279 taken care of. And then they'll do their other 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.680 thing. And then again, just anything. that i 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.259 explained earlier working with communities that 00:24:48.259 --> 00:24:50.359 have experienced profound trauma you give options 00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:54.079 here's the parameter and it's not cookie cutter 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:56.940 they're all individualistic pieces so they have 00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:58.660 to have a reason they have to be able to explain 00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:02.440 their ideas and it's designed so that anyone 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:04.559 can do it so it sounds like what you're saying 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.750 is that what schools benefit from the most in 00:25:08.750 --> 00:25:11.849 the aftermath of crisis is acknowledging the 00:25:11.849 --> 00:25:14.789 pain while upholding routine in the process while 00:25:14.789 --> 00:25:20.690 still welcoming play into the environment and 00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:23.170 you've mentioned already just how cross -curricular 00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:27.390 you've allowed art to become so i'm curious especially 00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:30.210 when giving people space to express their grief 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:34.900 their anger and their love all at once, especially 00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:36.740 for these educators that feel like they're pulled 00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.440 in all different directions from curriculum and 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.900 the state exam. How can we still allow arts to 00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:47.259 become a cross -curricular experience? Teachers 00:25:47.259 --> 00:25:51.359 are very overworked. We're asking a lot of them. 00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:55.119 So my job is, one, it has to make sense because 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.859 no teacher is going to do this. Like the school 00:25:57.859 --> 00:26:01.029 is going to, if this isn't working, there's going 00:26:01.029 --> 00:26:03.990 to be a revolt. And the fact that not only is 00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:06.970 it working, but you have people, again, this 00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:09.890 is not their area of expertise. This is not their 00:26:09.890 --> 00:26:11.970 strong suit. And they're asking for it. They're 00:26:11.970 --> 00:26:14.769 like, oh, can Traci come in and do this project? 00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:19.009 So that to me is affirmation. And the administration 00:26:19.009 --> 00:26:22.289 feels the same way. Like something's happening 00:26:22.289 --> 00:26:25.369 here. Something is working. We believe in this. 00:26:25.829 --> 00:26:29.279 And it's also creating this really great. sense 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.579 of community spirit. So the school gets excited. 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:36.859 The artwork then goes up, transforming the culture. 00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:40.740 People are seeing their stuff on the walls. It's 00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:43.400 just so much happier. It's like such a healthier 00:26:43.400 --> 00:26:48.119 place. If nationally people understood how to 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:53.240 use arts integration as a learning tool, schools 00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:56.380 would be so much better. Because people process 00:26:56.380 --> 00:26:59.019 in different ways. Not everyone is an auditory 00:26:59.019 --> 00:27:01.299 processor. Some people are visual processors. 00:27:01.700 --> 00:27:05.599 So if you ask someone to write an academic response, 00:27:05.980 --> 00:27:09.160 okay, they may not be good like that. But if 00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:12.059 you ask them to draw and then act it out and 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:14.119 then write a little sentence around it, it's 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.119 going to sink in a deeper way. I just wanted 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:19.660 to clarify because I think this is important. 00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:22.240 I'm not a therapist. I have a lot of experience 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.160 working with trauma survivors and have done extensive 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:28.400 research and feel I have a certain skill level, 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:32.259 but my background is not art therapy. I'm a visual 00:27:32.259 --> 00:27:36.700 artist. And so it's very important to me on all 00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:38.980 these projects that I work with mental health 00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:41.410 experts. And I'm glad you clarified that, Traci, 00:27:41.490 --> 00:27:43.809 because I know many of our listeners here would 00:27:43.809 --> 00:27:46.630 be able to testify at some point from their careers, 00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:49.609 the ease in being able to fall victim to the 00:27:49.609 --> 00:27:52.829 superhero narrative and working alongside students 00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:57.130 of trauma. Savior syndrome, I think a lot of 00:27:57.130 --> 00:28:01.089 well -intentioned teachers fall into that trap. 00:28:01.230 --> 00:28:05.710 I've aged as an educator. I know that kids want 00:28:05.710 --> 00:28:09.279 to connect, right? They crave that space. but 00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.380 then how you connect and what spaces you're providing. 00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:16.099 So even if the framework is this one thing, stuff 00:28:16.099 --> 00:28:19.819 sneaks in and then you're like, oh no, what am 00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:22.119 I going to do with this information? Exactly. 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:25.400 That's also why you have other professionals, 00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:28.400 colleagues you work with. You're going to be 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.000 more likely to want to be in a classroom space 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.160 if you start to feel positive energy in that 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.630 space. So you don't... go to someone like we're 00:28:38.630 --> 00:28:40.970 going to make a piece of art about this thing 00:28:40.970 --> 00:28:44.450 here's an option you can maybe consider this 00:28:44.450 --> 00:28:47.990 thing so a lot of what I do is if I'm working 00:28:47.990 --> 00:28:51.190 in a situation where someone's experienced really 00:28:51.190 --> 00:28:54.529 life -altering stuff say for example with the 00:28:54.529 --> 00:28:57.130 9 -11 community they could make a piece of art 00:28:57.130 --> 00:28:59.569 about their lost parent they could make a piece 00:28:59.569 --> 00:29:01.960 of art about how they're feeling Or they could 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:04.160 make a piece of art celebrating America's camp. 00:29:04.339 --> 00:29:06.500 Or they could make a piece of art celebrating 00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:08.619 something that they had accomplished. You want 00:29:08.619 --> 00:29:10.660 to give people autonomy. You want them to have 00:29:10.660 --> 00:29:14.000 control. Because they didn't have control during 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.160 a very horrific part of their life. I've noticed 00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:20.779 that we want to feel better, but a lot of us 00:29:20.779 --> 00:29:23.650 feel vulnerable. leaning into the discomfort 00:29:23.650 --> 00:29:26.230 to make that happen. How can schools, especially 00:29:26.230 --> 00:29:28.769 ones that may not have the resources, still try 00:29:28.769 --> 00:29:32.809 to protect and prioritize the arts as a learning 00:29:32.809 --> 00:29:35.009 gain? Okay, I'm going to answer that question 00:29:35.009 --> 00:29:36.769 in a second, but I need to say something first. 00:29:36.910 --> 00:29:40.529 Yeah. This country understands the importance 00:29:40.529 --> 00:29:43.970 of the arts. You go to any private school, there 00:29:43.970 --> 00:29:47.990 are multiple classes for arts education. Private 00:29:47.990 --> 00:29:51.710 schools have You have theater educators. You 00:29:51.710 --> 00:29:55.329 have multiple arts educators. You'll have maybe 00:29:55.329 --> 00:29:59.509 dance, right? Certainly music, certainly musical 00:29:59.509 --> 00:30:02.710 instruments. And yet you go to public schools 00:30:02.710 --> 00:30:06.690 and people are always scraping to get that. So 00:30:06.690 --> 00:30:10.809 this is not a situation where folks don't understand 00:30:10.809 --> 00:30:13.990 the value of it. Folks in positions of power 00:30:13.990 --> 00:30:18.279 penalize poor people. Right. Systematically, 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.279 poor people are treated as less than and that 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:25.819 tends to impact black and brown communities higher 00:30:25.819 --> 00:30:28.220 than other communities. I just I'm sorry I had 00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:30.359 to get on my little pulpit and say that because 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:34.240 I think when we talk about the disparity in arts 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.779 education, we have to recognize this is a class 00:30:36.779 --> 00:30:39.619 issue. And this isn't an ignorance issue because 00:30:39.619 --> 00:30:42.119 people do know people do understand. They may 00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:46.069 not think it's as important. In the sense that 00:30:46.069 --> 00:30:48.690 they may say, okay, I take that back. They do 00:30:48.690 --> 00:30:50.470 think it's important because they have never 00:30:50.470 --> 00:30:53.910 said, no, we don't need the arts. And every culture, 00:30:53.970 --> 00:30:56.930 when we look at culture, we look at the arts. 00:30:57.049 --> 00:30:59.349 Like this is how we remember things. And if you 00:30:59.349 --> 00:31:01.990 ask people what they remember from their school 00:31:01.990 --> 00:31:06.730 experience, besides sports, it's something that 00:31:06.730 --> 00:31:08.609 happened through the arts. Maybe you were in 00:31:08.609 --> 00:31:10.349 a marching band. You were in the school's marching 00:31:10.349 --> 00:31:12.940 band. Maybe you were in a school play. Maybe 00:31:12.940 --> 00:31:15.420 you helped design the yearbook and you took photos. 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:18.880 All of these things are connected to the arts. 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.440 And that's what people hold on to. That's what 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:24.299 people crave. I think one of the big hiccups 00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:28.259 is standardized testing because what's happened 00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:31.920 is folks start to learn for a test and study 00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.180 for a test instead of learning for learning's 00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:37.660 sake. And we need, especially early on and with 00:31:37.660 --> 00:31:40.319 young children, you're trying to cultivate creativity 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:44.569 and curiosity. When the trauma is so severe that 00:31:44.569 --> 00:31:49.410 a child can no longer figure out a fantasy or 00:31:49.410 --> 00:31:52.529 a narrative where they can't be creative, that 00:31:52.529 --> 00:31:55.390 is deeply troubling. And so if we don't give 00:31:55.390 --> 00:31:59.890 children the tools, the ability to go play, let's 00:31:59.890 --> 00:32:02.549 go create, not saying we have to teach them how 00:32:02.549 --> 00:32:05.329 to play. You just have to give them the opportunity. 00:32:06.349 --> 00:32:10.069 And I think that what happens with adults, with 00:32:10.069 --> 00:32:13.690 educators in the classroom, is their play has 00:32:13.690 --> 00:32:16.690 also been stunted. Because if they're a product 00:32:16.690 --> 00:32:20.190 of the American school system, chances are that 00:32:20.190 --> 00:32:22.130 they stopped making art around middle school 00:32:22.130 --> 00:32:26.089 age. And chances are somebody said to them, you're 00:32:26.089 --> 00:32:29.009 not very good at this. So they started to believe 00:32:29.009 --> 00:32:31.769 they weren't. And so what I find often happens 00:32:31.769 --> 00:32:34.329 when I'm doing workshops with educators, because 00:32:34.329 --> 00:32:37.109 this is also how we... change the system is you 00:32:37.109 --> 00:32:41.150 have to have educators on board with this is 00:32:41.150 --> 00:32:44.069 important right and not just important because 00:32:44.069 --> 00:32:48.890 it checks a box but understanding on a real core 00:32:48.890 --> 00:32:51.869 to your human being level we need this stuff 00:32:51.869 --> 00:32:56.009 and so a lot of what I do when I'm doing professional 00:32:56.009 --> 00:32:59.269 development with teachers is trying to undo the 00:32:59.269 --> 00:33:02.539 negative learning and the negative self -doubts 00:33:02.539 --> 00:33:04.240 or the criticism that they have in their heads 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.220 "I'm not good at this, I can't do this" and so you're 00:33:07.220 --> 00:33:09.440 celebrating that and then they start to be like, 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.579 "oh this isn't so bad." I've enjoyed it because 00:33:13.579 --> 00:33:17.339 if you think again if we go to the pandemic during 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:20.700 the pandemic all of a sudden there's this huge 00:33:20.700 --> 00:33:24.000 resurgence of coloring books for adults everybody 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.980 wants to color right because it makes people 00:33:26.980 --> 00:33:29.500 feel good it calms the system you have folks 00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:33.339 listening to music to calm our bodies, right? 00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:35.819 We're watching TV shows because that's what is 00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:39.380 there, but it becomes a way to understand theater 00:33:39.380 --> 00:33:42.259 or understand the human experience, right? So 00:33:42.259 --> 00:33:46.359 we need the arts. The arts makes us better people. 00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:49.220 It makes us understand society. In countries 00:33:49.220 --> 00:33:52.720 where people in position of power try to suppress 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:57.480 free speech and try to suppress the arts, books 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.400 are scary, right? We must censor them. Art is 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:03.319 scary. We must censor that. We must have control 00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:05.599 of the information that's being disseminated. 00:34:05.779 --> 00:34:09.019 Because when we give people the ability to create 00:34:09.019 --> 00:34:12.480 and think, you might have to deal with some of 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:14.920 the complicated emotions that come up as a result. 00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:17.559 And if people aren't equipped to deal with that, 00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:20.280 if they're not trauma informed, if they can't 00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:25.320 be in space, when someone that has a hard emotion 00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:29.260 that maybe manifests as tears or manifests as 00:34:29.260 --> 00:34:32.420 anger or manifests as complete shutdown because 00:34:32.420 --> 00:34:34.619 we're talking about these two things. But the 00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:37.139 other thing that happens is kids dissociate. 00:34:37.139 --> 00:34:39.800 They go away. They go somewhere else in their 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:42.139 head when trauma has happened. And what do teachers 00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:45.039 do? Like it's just quiet. I don't have to deal 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:47.360 with them. I can just ignore them. But that's 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:49.820 a trauma response as well. So how do you get 00:34:49.820 --> 00:34:53.829 that kid to interact? I'm wondering, like when 00:34:53.829 --> 00:34:57.989 we have, I'll even say that stigma towards art 00:34:57.989 --> 00:35:01.329 classes in schools, like if you look at a student's 00:35:01.329 --> 00:35:03.210 schedule, it's like, oh, you're taking chemistry, 00:35:03.449 --> 00:35:05.989 AP physics, right? And then they have an art 00:35:05.989 --> 00:35:09.030 class. How can we overcome as a society what 00:35:09.030 --> 00:35:12.550 that stigma looks like and add so much more value? 00:35:12.610 --> 00:35:14.389 Like, first of all, why do we have that stigma? 00:35:14.849 --> 00:35:17.750 And then how can we take it away to really add 00:35:17.750 --> 00:35:21.360 the value that it deserves? I think that as a 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:24.719 society, we tend to value money and product, 00:35:24.980 --> 00:35:32.019 final product, more so than process. So the idea 00:35:32.019 --> 00:35:36.360 that you have to study or you have to have a 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:39.280 focus in these areas that are going to be more 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:44.380 lucrative, or this can come from family, parental 00:35:44.380 --> 00:35:47.380 pressure, societal pressure. There's nothing, 00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:50.010 if you grow up poor, there's... Yes, of course 00:35:50.010 --> 00:35:52.190 you want stability. If you've never had stability, 00:35:52.570 --> 00:35:54.949 then that's something you crave. And there's 00:35:54.949 --> 00:35:57.570 nothing wrong with craving that. But the way 00:35:57.570 --> 00:36:02.230 our school system is designed, it is very final 00:36:02.230 --> 00:36:07.329 product oriented. In the arts, there's a product 00:36:07.329 --> 00:36:09.929 and that's important, but there's a process too. 00:36:10.349 --> 00:36:14.030 And sometimes the process of making is more important 00:36:14.030 --> 00:36:17.070 than the product that is made. Because it is 00:36:17.070 --> 00:36:19.210 every time. Yeah, I will say this. One of the 00:36:19.210 --> 00:36:22.570 coolest things for me when I worked in the Bronx, 00:36:22.809 --> 00:36:26.230 I taught a lot of young educators. So most of 00:36:26.230 --> 00:36:29.570 the time, on average, I would work with six, 00:36:29.670 --> 00:36:33.869 sometimes seven artists or seven educators, sometimes 00:36:33.869 --> 00:36:37.570 eight per year. And then I was there 12 years. 00:36:37.690 --> 00:36:40.590 So there's turnover. So I figured out at one 00:36:40.590 --> 00:36:43.570 point I had worked with 27 different educators. 00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:46.219 Some of them went on to become administrators. 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:49.760 Many of them left the Bronx and went on to different 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.260 states. And through social media, you keep in 00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:55.360 touch with people. I have since found out they 00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:57.219 would write back and say, hey, remember that 00:36:57.219 --> 00:36:59.579 project we did? I'd like to do that now here. 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.940 So work we started in the Bronx went to Philadelphia. 00:37:03.739 --> 00:37:05.860 Work we started in the Bronx went to New Haven, 00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:08.920 Connecticut. Right. Work that started in the 00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:13.340 Bronx went to New Jersey. That is exciting. That's 00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:16.619 exciting because if educators, again, these are 00:37:16.619 --> 00:37:19.280 not art teachers. These were all humanities teachers, 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.039 English and social studies. They believe they 00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:24.079 understood the power of arts integration. They 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:26.639 saw it working. They're like, hey, Traci, we're 00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:29.619 going to do this elsewhere. And when they became 00:37:29.619 --> 00:37:31.099 administrators and they're like, we're teaching 00:37:31.099 --> 00:37:34.599 our teachers how to do this. I was like, yes, 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:40.480 yes, yes. Victory, victory. Ripple down. Got 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:41.860 to keep doing that. Exactly. The ripple effect. 00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:44.579 That's it. And I love one line that you have 00:37:44.579 --> 00:37:46.880 from your artistic statements that says, if you 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:50.280 are complacent, you are complicit. So I wanted 00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.119 you to tell us a little bit about that philosophy. 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.699 And if you could tell us what you find to be 00:37:54.699 --> 00:37:58.420 Traci's secret sauce to a better system in education, 00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:01.639 what should our listeners walk away with? Okay, 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:04.099 so first I'm going to talk about if you're complacent, 00:38:04.099 --> 00:38:07.559 you're complicit. That would be one of my mantras. 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.500 And the other mantra would be lead with love 00:38:10.500 --> 00:38:14.019 and err on the side of kindness. So those are 00:38:14.019 --> 00:38:16.599 my sort of two ways to think about what you do 00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:18.960 in the classroom. But if you're complacent, you're 00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:21.539 complicit. I'm going to share a personal story 00:38:21.539 --> 00:38:23.579 that's a little more personal than I normally 00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:25.400 talk about in public lectures, but I have in 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:28.659 the past. When I was in my early 20s, I was in 00:38:28.659 --> 00:38:31.119 Atlanta volunteering at a boys and girls club 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:34.739 coaching soccer there. And one of my kids was 00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:38.500 killed by gun violence. And he was an eighth 00:38:38.500 --> 00:38:40.880 grader. And this was particularly difficult. 00:38:41.530 --> 00:38:46.469 And in many ways, the lessons learned from this 00:38:46.469 --> 00:38:49.329 experience have had a profound impact on my work 00:38:49.329 --> 00:38:52.949 today. So his name was Geno Thomas. And I want 00:38:52.949 --> 00:38:55.489 his name acknowledged because he was a great, 00:38:55.530 --> 00:38:58.630 great kid. And he was at his eighth grade dance. 00:38:59.110 --> 00:39:03.289 And another boy, a 16 -year -old boy, shot him 00:39:03.289 --> 00:39:05.949 thinking he was somebody else. So it was a case 00:39:05.949 --> 00:39:10.409 of mistaken identity. Now, this was 1999. And 00:39:10.409 --> 00:39:13.070 this happened two weeks after Columbine, which 00:39:13.070 --> 00:39:16.190 was also in 1999. That was in April. And Gino's 00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:20.170 death was in early May. So there was a lot of 00:39:20.170 --> 00:39:22.750 attention to his death that may not have otherwise 00:39:22.750 --> 00:39:26.550 occurred. And Dr. King's son spoke at the funeral. 00:39:27.010 --> 00:39:29.849 The mayor at the time spoke at the funeral. Dr. 00:39:30.030 --> 00:39:34.690 King's son said very directly, my father and 00:39:34.690 --> 00:39:36.690 grandfather died by gun violence. I understand 00:39:36.690 --> 00:39:38.949 what it's like to lose a family member this way. 00:39:39.849 --> 00:39:43.050 The thing that stayed with me was the mayor at 00:39:43.050 --> 00:39:45.250 the time said, we're going to make changes. We're 00:39:45.250 --> 00:39:47.210 going to do this stuff, right? We're going to 00:39:47.210 --> 00:39:50.530 make a difference. And I very naively believed 00:39:50.530 --> 00:39:54.230 that changes were going to come and that things 00:39:54.230 --> 00:39:57.070 were going to happen. And I got excited. And 00:39:57.070 --> 00:39:59.869 I remember being back at the Boys and Girls Club 00:39:59.869 --> 00:40:02.449 and talking to the director of this extraordinary 00:40:02.449 --> 00:40:06.389 woman named Gail Johnson, who is still working 00:40:06.389 --> 00:40:09.340 and doing the work. And just an extraordinary 00:40:09.340 --> 00:40:12.340 woman and incredible human being. And I said 00:40:12.340 --> 00:40:15.860 to Gail, I was like, where are they? They said, 00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:17.360 they're coming. They're going to come and help. 00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:20.440 And she said to me, she's look around. We are 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:23.659 here. We are the people that are doing the work. 00:40:24.099 --> 00:40:26.019 We're the ones that are going to make the changes. 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:29.539 That echoes the, if you're complacent, you're 00:40:29.539 --> 00:40:31.659 complicit. If you want to make a difference, 00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:34.780 you must be the one to take the action to make 00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:37.539 the difference. Don't wait. Superman's not coming. 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:40.900 And so that moment with Gail has just really 00:40:40.900 --> 00:40:44.159 left a mark on me. And there was another moment 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:46.880 also in Atlanta, very parallel with an artist 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:49.239 named Mildred Thompson, who is now deceased. 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.780 And Mildred said to me, very similar, if you 00:40:52.780 --> 00:40:55.679 want to make change, you do it. You make the 00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.780 change. If you see kids that don't have access 00:40:57.780 --> 00:40:59.739 to the arts, you figure out a way to get them 00:40:59.739 --> 00:41:02.800 access to the arts. You can operate outside the 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:06.420 system too. So if the system's not working, don't 00:41:06.420 --> 00:41:08.849 use the system. Or if the system works in this 00:41:08.849 --> 00:41:11.949 way, figure out how to use it to make it work. 00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:17.289 And these two conversations have really helped 00:41:17.289 --> 00:41:19.829 influence a lot of my drive and figuring out 00:41:19.829 --> 00:41:22.949 if I get in the door, I've got my underlying 00:41:22.949 --> 00:41:25.530 agenda, right? I've got to make art accessible. 00:41:25.849 --> 00:41:28.909 I've got to get people to understand that art 00:41:28.909 --> 00:41:31.750 isn't something that's scary, right? And we have 00:41:31.750 --> 00:41:34.710 to use trauma -informed pedagogy so that people 00:41:34.710 --> 00:41:37.239 can process. some of their difficult emotions. 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:41.300 And then we've got to bring joy. So let's have 00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:44.280 fun. So when we're doing this stuff, let's, let's 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:47.679 laugh, let's play. And so that would be the secret 00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:50.320 sauce. I just feel like the other secret sauce 00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:54.340 is you are who you are. Kids have the highest 00:41:54.340 --> 00:41:58.139 BS meters of anybody. And if you go in and you 00:41:58.139 --> 00:42:00.300 try to be somebody else, they're going to see 00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:04.219 through that. And I'm like, I just like, I want 00:42:04.219 --> 00:42:06.360 to lead with love. I want them to know that I 00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:08.880 love them. I want them to feel that love. I want 00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:11.539 that space when I'm in the space to cultivate 00:42:11.539 --> 00:42:15.159 that energy. And it's contagious. So if you go 00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:17.719 in, you're like, oh, I hate being here. This 00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:20.320 sucks. They're going to pick up on that. So you 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:23.219 got it. I'm also extraordinarily lucky because 00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:28.119 my jobs are, they're not every single day. So 00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:31.019 that is so hard. Educators have the hardest job 00:42:31.019 --> 00:42:33.900 every day to have to like go in. and deal with 00:42:33.900 --> 00:42:36.019 the stuff. And then they keep getting stuff piled 00:42:36.019 --> 00:42:39.380 on them. So my other job is like, how do I champion 00:42:39.380 --> 00:42:43.920 educators and support them and give them help 00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:48.260 and hope and just bring the love. Outstanding. 00:42:48.260 --> 00:42:50.239 Thank you for these charismatic thoughts, Traci. 00:42:50.539 --> 00:42:53.000 And what's coming up next? What are some projects 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:54.900 that our listeners can learn about in terms of 00:42:54.900 --> 00:42:59.800 what's happening now? So in October of 2025, 00:43:00.730 --> 00:43:03.489 The project that I'm working on with folks impacted 00:43:03.489 --> 00:43:06.170 by the mass shooting in Lewiston will be going 00:43:06.170 --> 00:43:09.409 public. Actually, technically, the public opening 00:43:09.409 --> 00:43:11.750 will be November 7th, but there'll be a private 00:43:11.750 --> 00:43:15.510 opening in October for people impacted most closely. 00:43:15.670 --> 00:43:19.010 And that will be at LA Arts in Lewiston, Maine. 00:43:19.949 --> 00:43:23.389 That piece will be on display through mid -January, 00:43:23.409 --> 00:43:26.250 and then it will travel to various venues, most 00:43:26.250 --> 00:43:29.329 likely just in Maine. The show Drawing Meaning 00:43:29.329 --> 00:43:32.590 is still up at the 9 -11 Museum, and that will 00:43:32.590 --> 00:43:36.309 remain up. You can see portions of Pandora's 00:43:36.309 --> 00:43:39.190 Lantern, which was a piece I facilitated in 2007 00:43:39.190 --> 00:43:42.489 with the America's Camp community, and then photo 00:43:42.489 --> 00:43:46.250 reproductions of the phoenix. Great news, amazing 00:43:46.250 --> 00:43:50.389 news, and I can share this publicly now. And 00:43:50.389 --> 00:43:53.769 for the 25 -year anniversary exhibit at the 9 00:43:53.769 --> 00:43:56.369 -11 Museum, they are going to show the actual 00:43:56.369 --> 00:44:02.760 phoenix. So yeah, I know. I mean, I can't because 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.980 it makes me like cry, but it was always my dream. 00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:10.760 Someday this piece would be in that space and 00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:12.380 that my kids would come back and they would have 00:44:12.380 --> 00:44:14.500 their own children. Oh my God, we'd totally lose 00:44:14.500 --> 00:44:19.960 it. Yeah. And they'd be able to like share that 00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:23.099 piece with their kids. So it's happening. That's 00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:25.739 really cool. So yeah. So I'm working with the 00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:29.190 museum on that. And then in Bennington, Vermont, 00:44:29.469 --> 00:44:32.650 I have a public art piece right now called I 00:44:32.650 --> 00:44:36.869 Am, I Will, I'm Afraid, Bennington. And all you 00:44:36.869 --> 00:44:38.750 have to do is drive through Bennington. It's 00:44:38.750 --> 00:44:42.150 eight by 11 wall piece, eight by 11 foot wall 00:44:42.150 --> 00:44:45.389 piece hanging in downtown Bennington. And that 00:44:45.389 --> 00:44:47.809 will be up until December. And there'll be some 00:44:47.809 --> 00:44:51.070 public programming around adolescent mental health 00:44:51.070 --> 00:44:54.469 concerns in the fall in Vermont. So that's where 00:44:54.469 --> 00:44:58.000 people can see some work. that's what I got for 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.800 you that's my hype thank you again to Traci who 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:03.519 has been here to remind us that art is not just 00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:06.260 decoration it's documentation it's liberation 00:45:06.260 --> 00:45:09.239 and sometimes even a lifeline that doesn't make 00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:12.340 art a bonus it makes it an essential and in Traci's 00:45:12.340 --> 00:45:14.860 own words Teaching is not about creating good 00:45:14.860 --> 00:45:16.659 artists, but it's about creating responsible, 00:45:16.940 --> 00:45:20.019 inquisitive thinkers and art practitioners. All 00:45:20.019 --> 00:45:22.659 of us as educators have had the choice in allowing 00:45:22.659 --> 00:45:25.719 students to express their complex emotions using 00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:28.639 visual truths, which can be laden with grief, 00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:32.260 anger, and even love. So you can learn more about 00:45:32.260 --> 00:45:34.159 Traci work through her website listed in the 00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:37.489 show notes and follow her. On Instagram, @tracimolloy, 00:45:37.489 --> 00:45:39.050 which will be linked in our show notes 00:45:39.050 --> 00:45:41.789 as well. So if this episode has resonated with 00:45:41.789 --> 00:45:44.210 you, please share it with a colleague, a student, 00:45:44.230 --> 00:45:46.210 or a fellow creative, and somebody who might 00:45:46.210 --> 00:45:49.210 need to hear that healing continues to be possible, 00:45:49.369 --> 00:45:52.590 even when our words fail us. Until next time, 00:45:52.610 --> 00:45:56.030 keep the dialogue open and our space brave. Thank 00:45:56.030 --> 00:45:57.889 you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives 00:45:57.889 --> 00:46:00.949 Healing and Education Podcast. If today's episode 00:46:00.949 --> 00:46:03.590 inspired you or made you think differently, I'd 00:46:03.590 --> 00:46:05.949 love to hear from you. Drop a comment or review 00:46:05.949 --> 00:46:08.789 wherever you listen to podcasts and stay connected 00:46:08.789 --> 00:46:11.329 with us on the At Classroom Narratives podcast 00:46:11.329 --> 00:46:14.630 over Instagram and Facebook. Remember, together 00:46:14.630 --> 00:46:17.849 we can transform our scars into stars in education, 00:46:18.230 --> 00:46:20.510 one conversation at a time.