Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing in
Education podcast, the space where education
meets resilience. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in
each episode, we dive deep into the personal
stories of educators, students, leaders, and
frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities
within modern education. Whether you're just
starting your teaching journey, or are we seasoned
professionals looking for inspiration, we'll
explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent
burnout, and build trauma -informed communities
within our schools. Now, let's take a seat at
the front of the classroom as we get started.
Thanks so much for tuning in today, everyone.
I'm so privileged to welcome my guest, Traci
Molloy, who is a Brooklyn -based artist. educator,
and activist who has spent over two decades using
art to help young people process trauma and reclaim
their voices. Her large -scale collaborations
with adolescents from 9 -11 survivors to youth
affected by poverty, violence, and displacement
have been exhibited at the United Nations, the
Pentagon, and the CDC and are held in the collection
of the 9 -11 Memorial and Museum as well. Traci's
teaching centers on using art to raise awareness
around trauma, promote social justice, and foster
collective healing in schools and communities.
Whether she's leading school -wide projects and
overseeing curriculum, working through large
-scale collective art projects with grief survivors,
and speaking nationally on the power of art.
Traci guides young individuals and trauma survivors
in helping them find their voices through art
and communicating really profound thoughts about
grief, violence, racism, economic injustice,
bullying, hope, and love while doing so. So we're
here today to talk about art, grief, education,
and how collective creation can be a lifeline
for students and maybe even for the educators
who guide them as well. So I introduced myself
to Traci when attending public evening programming
at the 9 -11 Memorial and Museum back in March
of 2025. And the program that I attended was
called, "Through Their Eyes, Therapeutic Art for
Grieving Children..' And the program was an exploration
of the role of art making and art therapy as
a way to process grief and trauma in the wake
of 9 -11. And Traci attended that discussion
as a panelist representing America's Camp as
their artist in residence. A second member on
the panel was clinical psychologist and World
Trade Center Family Center consultant, Dr. Tom
DeMaria. And we're going to have a link to Tom's
segment in the show as well, as Tom also had
a chance to speak with us on the podcast here
back in May of 2025. Both connecting as well
as joining Traci and Tom on the panel was Amy
Gardner, whose father, FDNY firefighter Thomas
A. Gardner, was killed on 9 -11 when she was
only nine years old. Amy attended America's Camp
as a camper and a counselor. i wanted to also
mention that attending the panel featuring Traci,
Tom, and Amy was absolutely like witnessing a
homecoming because I could just see that there
was so much love and energy in that room from
Traci's former campers who when they worked with
Traci she said during the presentation were maybe
about ten years old around-ish maybe a little
bit older, a little bit younger, which only means
that now they are all in their 30s and established
adults. And to see them all come back to Traci
after decades and just celebrate their growth
alongside her and reunite with her was really
touching to see as an audience member. So Traci,
I wanted to see if you could start by telling
us a little bit more about what America's Camp
is and some of the different factors that have
shaped your moments when working with surviving
children of 9 -11? So America's Camp, it no longer
exists. It existed for 10 years. The first year
of camp was 2002. So it ran from 2002 to 2011.
I first came to camp in 2003. So I was there
2003 through 2007. And then I returned in 2011.
And I facilitated six collaborations. So it was
a camp for children. who lost parents on 9 -11
or poor children whose parents were first responders
that were killed in the line of duty. And I believe
the first year of camp, there were maybe 70 kids.
And then each subsequent year, it got higher
and higher. And then it plateaued and it started
to decrease in numbers. And the reason for that
is there were just so many children. So at the
10 -year mark, the children that were in utero
were... 10 years old. And so there were not going
to be more children coming in. At the camp's
height, there was probably 400 kids and maybe
another 150 to 200 staffers. And some of the
staff were former campers who had come back to
become counselors and counselors in training.
Could you describe the process of creating collective
art pieces through America's Camp? So these projects
were very large. You'd have seven days with the
kids and you'd be on campus maybe eight or nine
days. And I would do workshops. So all during
the day, the kids would come and they would make
the work. And then at night, I'd have to construct
these pieces. We had the opportunity to have
the show. And while the show was up, folks from
the 9 -11 Museum, which did not exist at this
point. So the museum wasn't even formed. It was
a concept that it was going to happen. They were
invited up to see the art. And Jan Ramirez, who
was actually on the panel, she was the moderator,
was one of the initial individuals that came
to see the work. And they wanted it. They wanted
everything. And I remember the phone call. I
started crying because I was like, oh my God,
this is my dream. This work belongs to the America's
Camp community, but it belongs to the world.
Because I knew at the time when I was making
the work with the kids, we were documenting history.
I was going to document grief as it shifted.
And we were going to have these pieces that could
maybe shift the way people think about how to
make collaborative art, how to make collective
art, and frankly, how to work with kids. Because
usually people poo -poo any artwork that kids
have been involved with. I love that the work
that you've done through America's Camp really
gave children a voice. So tell us a little bit
more about what it was like to actually work
with America's Camp. I think one of the misconceptions
about America's Camp is people think it must
have been really sad, like it must have been
a terrible place. And it was the exact opposite.
I experienced more joy at America's Camp than
anywhere else in my life. I would get goosebumps
literally from joy. So to have the opportunity
to celebrate the kids. to celebrate the sort
of magical place and the art that was facilitated.
That was awesome. I've known these kids longer
than their deceased parent. I had the privilege
of watching them grow up. I get to see them as
incredible adults. And as a parent, I just know
what a big deal that is and how heartbreaking
it is that their lost parent didn't get to experience
that. And that responsibility is huge. I know
I'm not the only one in the America's Camp community
that really takes that seriously. I think about
that a lot. I think about the first time I heard
it actually was at America's Camp. And it was
when camp was coming to an end and the directors
opened up the floor to ask kids, did they want
to share things? And this young boy stood up
and he said, I've known you longer than my dad.
And to the men in the space and like, you guys
have taught me what it means to be a man. And
then I started thinking, wow, I've known these
kids longer and that. I mean, it's intense and
you don't get to walk away. Right. Like a lot
of this work. I think one of the things that's
really interesting about what I do is in instances
I go into communities or sometimes I'm part of
communities for extended periods of time. And
you're working with people when they're extraordinarily
vulnerable. You're trying to assist and transform
the trauma, but you're also trying to allow people
to remember that love is still present. Love
exists. And can they connect with another human
being? Can they foster that trust? And in some
instances, you're connected to these people for
life. What are some particular moments or memories
that you remember from being at America's Camp
with those children that has really shaped The
work you've been doing for the two decades since
then. Man, there's so many memories. I'll share
a couple stories related to The Phoenix. The
Phoenix is about a 15 by 20 by 8 foot giant paper
mache bird sculpture. And the interior is a wooden
frame. And the exterior is comprised of these
feathers that started out as 12 by 12 inch. paintings.
It's watercolor crayon on paper. And the paintings
were then converted into these feather shapes.
And each feather was made by a child who attended
America's camp. So the underbelly of the bird
has about just under 400 feathers. And then the
backside of the bird has about between 150 and
200 feathers. And so at the time of The Phoenix,
Harry Potter was very popular. And we had gone
on a tangent around Greek mythology at camp.
The year prior, I had made a piece called Apollo's
Ascent. And Apollo in Greek mythology is also
connected to the phoenix. So one of the things
I said to the kids during my little sort of unveiling
of the phoenix was we talked about how when Apollo
is carrying the sun and every day around noontime,
the sun freezes in the sky. And it's this one
thick spot and then it starts its descent. And
in mythology, the story is the Phoenix is singing
its song and the song is so beautiful that Apollo
stops to listen to the song each day. And then
when The Phoenix stops singing, the sun moves
on its way. And so what I talked to the kids
and I said, I hope someday, you know, when you
leave here, you look up and you see the sun.
you think about the phoenix singing her song
and you remember the beauty that you've all created.
So one of the things that's very important to
me is empowering the kids and recognizing I may
have facilitated and designed all these projects,
but the power of this work comes from the art
that was made by them. So when The Phoenix was
created, I worked with young college students.
I want to acknowledge that America's Camp brought
in folks literally from around the world. And
everyone volunteered their time to do this, myself
included, to create this work. And we had this
idea that how can we make the phoenix symbolically
burst into flames? Because that would be really
cool. And so we decided to make it glow in the
dark. Well, no one knew that this was going to
happen, except for those of us working on the
project. That's incredibly powerful symbolism.
Thank you for sharing that. So then what was
the children's reaction when they saw The Phoenix
for the first time? Can you take us back to that
moment? So the last night of camp, we had all
the kids there and they were in this dark space
and we had three spotlights on the bird. And
we had, as tradition, the year before, we had
some folks from New Zealand did the haka, which
is a Maori. I don't know if you would say it's
a dance or a chant. It becomes sort of transcendent.
So just in terms of the arts, you're setting
up an experience where it becomes visceral. We're
there and we have these three spotlights on the
piece and the guys do the haka and I get up and
I tell my little spiel about the piece. And then
we cut the lights and all of a sudden The Phoenix
is glowing and we have it on a cable and we're
like slowly raising it up. And the bird starts
to swing. It just starts to move. And you just
hear the whole audience. I mean, I'm telling
the story right now and I've got goosebumps.
And the whole audience, like it just, it just
froze. It was just like magic. Magic happened
because the bird is glowing and the parts that
are glowing are its eyes and all the feathers.
And that's what all the kids made. And it just
starts, it's like it's moving and it's like looking
at everyone and it's raising up. And I'm telling
you, it was the most incredible artistic moment
of my life. Incredible. Thank you for sharing
this powerful moment with us, Traci. And to our
listeners, please check out Traci's provided
photographs of the Phoenix linked here in our
show notes. Okay. So now we have a good sense
of what the artistic process was like in spaces
for healing, such as America's Camp. Now on a
similar topic. What would you say happens then
to children neurologically when they're going
through the process of art design and art creation?
And what are they holding on to from before versus
after they complete a piece of art as you've
seen it? And also, what can you share about what
you have witnessed around how working in communities
is beneficial for trauma survivors? So I think
one of the things, and this is across the board,
so this isn't like. I've worked in, obviously,
the community with 9 -11 kids. Folks understand
what happened. But I'm also thinking about, I've
worked extensively in Appalachian, Ohio, in communities
where opioids and addiction have had profound
impact on kids. In communities where systemic
poverty, systemic racism, right, all these things
that are much harder to recognize but are very
palpable, right, to, like, you have the big-T
trauma. Right. 9 -11. You know exactly what it
is versus the little-t trauma, which is like
the drip, drip, drip of poverty, the drip, drip,
drip of racism, the drip, drip, drip of lack
of health care, mental health care, physical
health care. So what happens? The most important
thing is when you have folks working in community,
they start to recognize that they are not alone.
They are not isolated with these emotions. They
have other people that understand their lived
experiences. And I'll use America's Camp as an
example. And this is a little grim, but this
is true. So the kids would be working and I'm
just doing my thing. And my job is, how can I
help you make the best image that you want to
make? So I don't draw on anyone's drawings. I
just, I listen to what you're saying. And then
if I can offer artistic guidance, I will. But
often you just kind of let. You give people the
framework and then they go and then they'll,
they want it to be good. So I'm happy to give
aesthetic feedback. So the kids, I remember this
was like in the earlier years too, they were
talking about, do you think your parent fell?
Do you think they jumped? Oh, I think my mom
or dad had jumped and here's why. And that is
so dark. That is so incredibly difficult to have
to bear witness to and not react to. But as they
were saying it, they were like, oh yeah, yeah,
I think this, you know, like they were connecting
to each other or how much, again, I recognize
this is really very difficult content. How much
of your dad did you bury? That is horrible stuff.
But in that shared space. they could talk about
this because they couldn't talk about it in their
school community. And they couldn't talk about
it even in their home because in their home,
the children were instinctually trying to protect
their surviving parent. So a lot of it is you
become that good child where you don't want to
make things difficult on the parent because you
can see their grief. So you don't want to talk
about. the hard stuff or ask the questions. But
in this space, you can do that. There were stories
that were shared that were extraordinarily difficult
to bear witness to, but also just, I'm just,
man, I'm like constantly humbled and just, I
don't even, I'm not going to get emotional. I
don't even know how to say it, but people are
so vulnerable. And I just, these stories that
I've been gifted, I want to, they're sacred and
I want to do them. justice and I want to do their
artwork justice and it just feels like such a
sense of responsibility to to do the best that
I can to make these pieces in honor of the folks
that that were killed and in honor of the folks
that are still here celebrating the folks that
are not here. One of the things I think is very
funny about trauma is trauma is going to win
right yeah you do not have to invite trauma to
the party trauma Trauma comes, but you do have
to invite joy. You do have to invite hope. And
so if I segue for a second, a lot of what I try
to do with the collective art projects that I
facilitate is to bring in hope, to bring in joy,
to give opportunity for resiliency to shine because
trauma's there. Trauma's coming. Like they're
the unwanted guests and trauma's always present.
And trying to deny it, trauma's still coming.
I was also wondering, so with the work you're
doing within schools, so you have spent many
years working inside our schools as well, especially
the Title I's and the transfer schools. And you've
been working with them to design trauma -informed
artistic experiences. And what have these collaborations
taught you about the emotional worlds that young
people are carrying into our classrooms? What
have you learned that students truly need that
maybe they either have and can grow more further
into or are lacking from our schools about what
they should get back after they return from crisis?
That's a big question, too. I think for me, most
notably would be post -COVID work. I worked for
12 years at a school in the Bronx and running
art programs. And then most recently, I've been
working in Queens, in Elmhurst, Queens, at a
transfer school. And Elmhurst was hit really
hard by the pandemic. And the kids that I work
with and still work with, they are, some of them
are older high school students. So they had to
get jobs during the pandemic because maybe they
had a family member who was sick or most of the,
almost everyone at that school knew someone that
died as a result of the pandemic. And they couldn't
maybe go to class because they had to babysit
because their parent. was going to work. And
yeah, so I think the biggest, the most important
thing was the community was fractured. So kids'
sense of place and sense of connection within
place and space was broken. So how do you slowly
reenter? And so we did art. And I have to applaud
a principal who said, I don't want to go back
to school and pretend nothing happened. I don't
want to start school this way. He reached out
to me and said, can you help with our faculty
first? Can you help them? And then can we do
something for the kids? And I said, yes. So that
summer we did workshops with all the faculty
and staff, figuring out ways to help them be
able to reenter school because the year that
everything was essentially from home. There were
some teachers that were in the building and some
teachers due to medical issues that were not.
And that would cause resentment. Some educators
felt like literally they're risking their life
being at school because of mandates. And other
people were also risking their life because maybe
they had different health complications. So I
needed to foster that community. The kids, when
they got back, there was so much fear, so much
fear. And I think that would be true. no matter
what the situation was. And again, I can use
COVID because I haven't worked in a school post,
like you were in Parkland post a mass shooting.
So you have an idea of some of that horrendous
anxiety, right? There was terrible anxiety. There
were people that had lost loved ones. We needed
to give space to be able to make art and process.
And the kids felt like they were so grateful
because it gave them a chance to share, to talk.
And to slowly get to know each other because
they had forgotten how to be in the same room
or all of that, that stuff is so important. And
I will also add, I think one of the things that
people forgot was how to play, right? How to
have fun, how to be silly together and very slowly.
So now over the arc of the four years that I've
been working with a school, I've seen extraordinary
growth. So I work with all the counselors. I
work with all the staff at the school and I work
with all the teachers. These are not art teachers,
right? Like you got math teachers and science
teachers working on art projects. They all have
to do it. And then we do these huge school -wide
projects and they are co -teaching along with
me. So like the whole school shuts down and this
is what we do. And it's been transformative.
Kids come to school. in order to do the art projects.
I don't know if statistically there's been improvement,
and that's something I need to do research on
because, again, it's speculative at this point.
If there's improvement in graduation rates, if
there's improvement in attendance. This school
is a school for kids who have failed out of traditional
school. They have massive struggles. Many of
them, English is not their first language. Many
of them have profound learning disabilities.
Lots of difficult traumas. A lot of them have
already lost a parent. Some of them have experienced
incarceration. Some of them are parents that
have given birth to children. So you're dealing
with complications that are really big. And what
happens neurologically? What happens inside the
brain? One of the things that I try to do with
the art projects is we try to set up two things.
One, you want to have play and have fun. cultivates
bonding but the second thing is we want to calm
so the last few years I've been asked to co -design
the foundations curriculum which meets after
lunch so we're trying to set up a transition
so when the kids come back from lunch people
are often hyped and so how do you set up the
classroom space so that they enter into this
space and then we're going to have a few minutes
to transition and then we're going to make these
art pieces And what I'm finding is, in particular,
projects that work with hands, for example, using
clay or anything that's particularly tactile,
really helps to soothe and calm. And because
our education system nationally has devalued
the arts, you have kids that haven't had experiences
with clay or with paint. So they regress. They
become like young children touching this for
the first time. And they need to do that. They
need to regress. And I say to teachers, let it
happen. Let it happen. If the kids need to put
the paint on their hands and do this, yes, I
know it's ridiculous, but they need to finger
paint because they didn't do it before. And they
need to connect to that part that didn't get
taken care of. And then they'll do their other
thing. And then again, just anything. that i
explained earlier working with communities that
have experienced profound trauma you give options
here's the parameter and it's not cookie cutter
they're all individualistic pieces so they have
to have a reason they have to be able to explain
their ideas and it's designed so that anyone
can do it so it sounds like what you're saying
is that what schools benefit from the most in
the aftermath of crisis is acknowledging the
pain while upholding routine in the process while
still welcoming play into the environment and
you've mentioned already just how cross -curricular
you've allowed art to become so i'm curious especially
when giving people space to express their grief
their anger and their love all at once, especially
for these educators that feel like they're pulled
in all different directions from curriculum and
the state exam. How can we still allow arts to
become a cross -curricular experience? Teachers
are very overworked. We're asking a lot of them.
So my job is, one, it has to make sense because
no teacher is going to do this. Like the school
is going to, if this isn't working, there's going
to be a revolt. And the fact that not only is
it working, but you have people, again, this
is not their area of expertise. This is not their
strong suit. And they're asking for it. They're
like, oh, can Traci come in and do this project?
So that to me is affirmation. And the administration
feels the same way. Like something's happening
here. Something is working. We believe in this.
And it's also creating this really great. sense
of community spirit. So the school gets excited.
The artwork then goes up, transforming the culture.
People are seeing their stuff on the walls. It's
just so much happier. It's like such a healthier
place. If nationally people understood how to
use arts integration as a learning tool, schools
would be so much better. Because people process
in different ways. Not everyone is an auditory
processor. Some people are visual processors.
So if you ask someone to write an academic response,
okay, they may not be good like that. But if
you ask them to draw and then act it out and
then write a little sentence around it, it's
going to sink in a deeper way. I just wanted
to clarify because I think this is important.
I'm not a therapist. I have a lot of experience
working with trauma survivors and have done extensive
research and feel I have a certain skill level,
but my background is not art therapy. I'm a visual
artist. And so it's very important to me on all
these projects that I work with mental health
experts. And I'm glad you clarified that, Traci,
because I know many of our listeners here would
be able to testify at some point from their careers,
the ease in being able to fall victim to the
superhero narrative and working alongside students
of trauma. Savior syndrome, I think a lot of
well -intentioned teachers fall into that trap.
I've aged as an educator. I know that kids want
to connect, right? They crave that space. but
then how you connect and what spaces you're providing.
So even if the framework is this one thing, stuff
sneaks in and then you're like, oh no, what am
I going to do with this information? Exactly.
That's also why you have other professionals,
colleagues you work with. You're going to be
more likely to want to be in a classroom space
if you start to feel positive energy in that
space. So you don't... go to someone like we're
going to make a piece of art about this thing
here's an option you can maybe consider this
thing so a lot of what I do is if I'm working
in a situation where someone's experienced really
life -altering stuff say for example with the
9 -11 community they could make a piece of art
about their lost parent they could make a piece
of art about how they're feeling Or they could
make a piece of art celebrating America's camp.
Or they could make a piece of art celebrating
something that they had accomplished. You want
to give people autonomy. You want them to have
control. Because they didn't have control during
a very horrific part of their life. I've noticed
that we want to feel better, but a lot of us
feel vulnerable. leaning into the discomfort
to make that happen. How can schools, especially
ones that may not have the resources, still try
to protect and prioritize the arts as a learning
gain? Okay, I'm going to answer that question
in a second, but I need to say something first.
Yeah. This country understands the importance
of the arts. You go to any private school, there
are multiple classes for arts education. Private
schools have You have theater educators. You
have multiple arts educators. You'll have maybe
dance, right? Certainly music, certainly musical
instruments. And yet you go to public schools
and people are always scraping to get that. So
this is not a situation where folks don't understand
the value of it. Folks in positions of power
penalize poor people. Right. Systematically,
poor people are treated as less than and that
tends to impact black and brown communities higher
than other communities. I just I'm sorry I had
to get on my little pulpit and say that because
I think when we talk about the disparity in arts
education, we have to recognize this is a class
issue. And this isn't an ignorance issue because
people do know people do understand. They may
not think it's as important. In the sense that
they may say, okay, I take that back. They do
think it's important because they have never
said, no, we don't need the arts. And every culture,
when we look at culture, we look at the arts.
Like this is how we remember things. And if you
ask people what they remember from their school
experience, besides sports, it's something that
happened through the arts. Maybe you were in
a marching band. You were in the school's marching
band. Maybe you were in a school play. Maybe
you helped design the yearbook and you took photos.
All of these things are connected to the arts.
And that's what people hold on to. That's what
people crave. I think one of the big hiccups
is standardized testing because what's happened
is folks start to learn for a test and study
for a test instead of learning for learning's
sake. And we need, especially early on and with
young children, you're trying to cultivate creativity
and curiosity. When the trauma is so severe that
a child can no longer figure out a fantasy or
a narrative where they can't be creative, that
is deeply troubling. And so if we don't give
children the tools, the ability to go play, let's
go create, not saying we have to teach them how
to play. You just have to give them the opportunity.
And I think that what happens with adults, with
educators in the classroom, is their play has
also been stunted. Because if they're a product
of the American school system, chances are that
they stopped making art around middle school
age. And chances are somebody said to them, you're
not very good at this. So they started to believe
they weren't. And so what I find often happens
when I'm doing workshops with educators, because
this is also how we... change the system is you
have to have educators on board with this is
important right and not just important because
it checks a box but understanding on a real core
to your human being level we need this stuff
and so a lot of what I do when I'm doing professional
development with teachers is trying to undo the
negative learning and the negative self -doubts
or the criticism that they have in their heads
"I'm not good at this, I can't do this" and so you're
celebrating that and then they start to be like,
"oh this isn't so bad." I've enjoyed it because
if you think again if we go to the pandemic during
the pandemic all of a sudden there's this huge
resurgence of coloring books for adults everybody
wants to color right because it makes people
feel good it calms the system you have folks
listening to music to calm our bodies, right?
We're watching TV shows because that's what is
there, but it becomes a way to understand theater
or understand the human experience, right? So
we need the arts. The arts makes us better people.
It makes us understand society. In countries
where people in position of power try to suppress
free speech and try to suppress the arts, books
are scary, right? We must censor them. Art is
scary. We must censor that. We must have control
of the information that's being disseminated.
Because when we give people the ability to create
and think, you might have to deal with some of
the complicated emotions that come up as a result.
And if people aren't equipped to deal with that,
if they're not trauma informed, if they can't
be in space, when someone that has a hard emotion
that maybe manifests as tears or manifests as
anger or manifests as complete shutdown because
we're talking about these two things. But the
other thing that happens is kids dissociate.
They go away. They go somewhere else in their
head when trauma has happened. And what do teachers
do? Like it's just quiet. I don't have to deal
with them. I can just ignore them. But that's
a trauma response as well. So how do you get
that kid to interact? I'm wondering, like when
we have, I'll even say that stigma towards art
classes in schools, like if you look at a student's
schedule, it's like, oh, you're taking chemistry,
AP physics, right? And then they have an art
class. How can we overcome as a society what
that stigma looks like and add so much more value?
Like, first of all, why do we have that stigma?
And then how can we take it away to really add
the value that it deserves? I think that as a
society, we tend to value money and product,
final product, more so than process. So the idea
that you have to study or you have to have a
focus in these areas that are going to be more
lucrative, or this can come from family, parental
pressure, societal pressure. There's nothing,
if you grow up poor, there's... Yes, of course
you want stability. If you've never had stability,
then that's something you crave. And there's
nothing wrong with craving that. But the way
our school system is designed, it is very final
product oriented. In the arts, there's a product
and that's important, but there's a process too.
And sometimes the process of making is more important
than the product that is made. Because it is
every time. Yeah, I will say this. One of the
coolest things for me when I worked in the Bronx,
I taught a lot of young educators. So most of
the time, on average, I would work with six,
sometimes seven artists or seven educators, sometimes
eight per year. And then I was there 12 years.
So there's turnover. So I figured out at one
point I had worked with 27 different educators.
Some of them went on to become administrators.
Many of them left the Bronx and went on to different
states. And through social media, you keep in
touch with people. I have since found out they
would write back and say, hey, remember that
project we did? I'd like to do that now here.
So work we started in the Bronx went to Philadelphia.
Work we started in the Bronx went to New Haven,
Connecticut. Right. Work that started in the
Bronx went to New Jersey. That is exciting. That's
exciting because if educators, again, these are
not art teachers. These were all humanities teachers,
English and social studies. They believe they
understood the power of arts integration. They
saw it working. They're like, hey, Traci, we're
going to do this elsewhere. And when they became
administrators and they're like, we're teaching
our teachers how to do this. I was like, yes,
yes, yes. Victory, victory. Ripple down. Got
to keep doing that. Exactly. The ripple effect.
That's it. And I love one line that you have
from your artistic statements that says, if you
are complacent, you are complicit. So I wanted
you to tell us a little bit about that philosophy.
And if you could tell us what you find to be
Traci's secret sauce to a better system in education,
what should our listeners walk away with? Okay,
so first I'm going to talk about if you're complacent,
you're complicit. That would be one of my mantras.
And the other mantra would be lead with love
and err on the side of kindness. So those are
my sort of two ways to think about what you do
in the classroom. But if you're complacent, you're
complicit. I'm going to share a personal story
that's a little more personal than I normally
talk about in public lectures, but I have in
the past. When I was in my early 20s, I was in
Atlanta volunteering at a boys and girls club
coaching soccer there. And one of my kids was
killed by gun violence. And he was an eighth
grader. And this was particularly difficult.
And in many ways, the lessons learned from this
experience have had a profound impact on my work
today. So his name was Geno Thomas. And I want
his name acknowledged because he was a great,
great kid. And he was at his eighth grade dance.
And another boy, a 16 -year -old boy, shot him
thinking he was somebody else. So it was a case
of mistaken identity. Now, this was 1999. And
this happened two weeks after Columbine, which
was also in 1999. That was in April. And Gino's
death was in early May. So there was a lot of
attention to his death that may not have otherwise
occurred. And Dr. King's son spoke at the funeral.
The mayor at the time spoke at the funeral. Dr.
King's son said very directly, my father and
grandfather died by gun violence. I understand
what it's like to lose a family member this way.
The thing that stayed with me was the mayor at
the time said, we're going to make changes. We're
going to do this stuff, right? We're going to
make a difference. And I very naively believed
that changes were going to come and that things
were going to happen. And I got excited. And
I remember being back at the Boys and Girls Club
and talking to the director of this extraordinary
woman named Gail Johnson, who is still working
and doing the work. And just an extraordinary
woman and incredible human being. And I said
to Gail, I was like, where are they? They said,
they're coming. They're going to come and help.
And she said to me, she's look around. We are
here. We are the people that are doing the work.
We're the ones that are going to make the changes.
That echoes the, if you're complacent, you're
complicit. If you want to make a difference,
you must be the one to take the action to make
the difference. Don't wait. Superman's not coming.
And so that moment with Gail has just really
left a mark on me. And there was another moment
also in Atlanta, very parallel with an artist
named Mildred Thompson, who is now deceased.
And Mildred said to me, very similar, if you
want to make change, you do it. You make the
change. If you see kids that don't have access
to the arts, you figure out a way to get them
access to the arts. You can operate outside the
system too. So if the system's not working, don't
use the system. Or if the system works in this
way, figure out how to use it to make it work.
And these two conversations have really helped
influence a lot of my drive and figuring out
if I get in the door, I've got my underlying
agenda, right? I've got to make art accessible.
I've got to get people to understand that art
isn't something that's scary, right? And we have
to use trauma -informed pedagogy so that people
can process. some of their difficult emotions.
And then we've got to bring joy. So let's have
fun. So when we're doing this stuff, let's, let's
laugh, let's play. And so that would be the secret
sauce. I just feel like the other secret sauce
is you are who you are. Kids have the highest
BS meters of anybody. And if you go in and you
try to be somebody else, they're going to see
through that. And I'm like, I just like, I want
to lead with love. I want them to know that I
love them. I want them to feel that love. I want
that space when I'm in the space to cultivate
that energy. And it's contagious. So if you go
in, you're like, oh, I hate being here. This
sucks. They're going to pick up on that. So you
got it. I'm also extraordinarily lucky because
my jobs are, they're not every single day. So
that is so hard. Educators have the hardest job
every day to have to like go in. and deal with
the stuff. And then they keep getting stuff piled
on them. So my other job is like, how do I champion
educators and support them and give them help
and hope and just bring the love. Outstanding.
Thank you for these charismatic thoughts, Traci.
And what's coming up next? What are some projects
that our listeners can learn about in terms of
what's happening now? So in October of 2025,
The project that I'm working on with folks impacted
by the mass shooting in Lewiston will be going
public. Actually, technically, the public opening
will be November 7th, but there'll be a private
opening in October for people impacted most closely.
And that will be at LA Arts in Lewiston, Maine.
That piece will be on display through mid -January,
and then it will travel to various venues, most
likely just in Maine. The show Drawing Meaning
is still up at the 9 -11 Museum, and that will
remain up. You can see portions of Pandora's
Lantern, which was a piece I facilitated in 2007
with the America's Camp community, and then photo
reproductions of the phoenix. Great news, amazing
news, and I can share this publicly now. And
for the 25 -year anniversary exhibit at the 9
-11 Museum, they are going to show the actual
phoenix. So yeah, I know. I mean, I can't because
it makes me like cry, but it was always my dream.
Someday this piece would be in that space and
that my kids would come back and they would have
their own children. Oh my God, we'd totally lose
it. Yeah. And they'd be able to like share that
piece with their kids. So it's happening. That's
really cool. So yeah. So I'm working with the
museum on that. And then in Bennington, Vermont,
I have a public art piece right now called I
Am, I Will, I'm Afraid, Bennington. And all you
have to do is drive through Bennington. It's
eight by 11 wall piece, eight by 11 foot wall
piece hanging in downtown Bennington. And that
will be up until December. And there'll be some
public programming around adolescent mental health
concerns in the fall in Vermont. So that's where
people can see some work. that's what I got for
you that's my hype thank you again to Traci who
has been here to remind us that art is not just
decoration it's documentation it's liberation
and sometimes even a lifeline that doesn't make
art a bonus it makes it an essential and in Traci's
own words Teaching is not about creating good
artists, but it's about creating responsible,
inquisitive thinkers and art practitioners. All
of us as educators have had the choice in allowing
students to express their complex emotions using
visual truths, which can be laden with grief,
anger, and even love. So you can learn more about
Traci work through her website listed in the
show notes and follow her. On Instagram, @tracimolloy,
which will be linked in our show notes
as well. So if this episode has resonated with
you, please share it with a colleague, a student,
or a fellow creative, and somebody who might
need to hear that healing continues to be possible,
even when our words fail us. Until next time,
keep the dialogue open and our space brave. Thank
you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives
Healing and Education Podcast. If today's episode
inspired you or made you think differently, I'd
love to hear from you. Drop a comment or review
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we can transform our scars into stars in education,
one conversation at a time.