Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing in
Education podcast, the space where education
meets resilience. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in
each episode, we dive deep into the personal
stories of educators, students, leaders, and
frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities
within modern education. Whether you're just
starting your teaching journey, or are we seasoned
professional looking for inspiration, we'll
explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent
burnout, and build trauma -informed communities
within our schools. Now, let's take a seat at
the front of the classroom as we get started.
Welcome back to the show. And today on the Classroom
Narratives podcast, I welcome Dr. Andrea Mata,
otherwise known as Dr. Dre, a clinical child
psychologist. parenting expert, and the founder
of Bright Spot Families. With years of experience
in both academia and in the field, Dr. Mata is
on a mission to help parents raise adaptable,
emotionally healthy children amidst a growing
youth mental health crisis. She's also the author
of the "No 2 Parenting Book: Practical Tips
for the Pooped Out Parents", which I just read
cover to cover this week. And as she says, it
is a text that you can read within a very quick
couple of sittings, if you will. And Dr. Dre
will talk to us more about that. And whether
you're a new teacher, a future parent, or just
trying to understand young minds, adapt and grow,
this conversation is going to serve itself to
be filled with impact and insight. So Dr. Dre,
welcome. Thank you for joining us today. Hello,
hello. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward
to this conversation, Joey. This is going to
be wonderful. And My first question is because
when we met through Phil Januszewski's Positive
Growth Lounge, so another shout out to Phil, who
has pretty much networked me with about a month's
worth of podcast guests in itself. You mentioned
your transition from a professor into a psychologist.
So I call it from the P to the P, professor to
psychologist, running their practice. And as
one professor myself, tell us about that switch
and what was it like making that career transition?
Yeah. So it was interesting because I had been
a college professor for nine years. I was tenured
and promoted. And if you don't know what that
means, it's a job that you could never be fired
from unless you did something like really, really
dumb. I was like super well liked. So college
professor for nine years. You're like, why would
you ever leave if you could never be fired? And
you were well, seriously. Like most people, like
when they know what tenure is, they're like,
wait, you quit? Like you resigned? Yeah, I'm
sitting here thinking that my mouth is like to
the floor. And so it was crazy because my last
year. As a college professor, I was being pursued
by a large company to be their marriage and parenting
personality. And throughout the interview process,
at one point they like pulled me to the side
and they're like, hey, do you realize with your
training, your knowledge, your credentials, your
expertise, your personality, you could have a
much bigger impact and make a lot more money
not being a college professor compared like not
being a college professor. And I was like, really?
And I was like, okay, I think it's time for me
to kind of step away. And so that's when I joined
a private practice because I had a private practice
before, but then I joined a larger one because
I hate billing. Paperwork is like the bane of
my existence. And so I've been doing that since
I resigned in February of 2021. I finished up
the semester and then I started at that. private
practice doing therapy with individuals, couples,
and families since June of 2021. Wow. Thank you
for that. So I just completed reading the number
two parenting book, which is an excellent read
for anybody who is in a scenario where they're
in the presence of authority, of people of any
age under, let's say the age of... 20, really.
And the number two parenting book shows that
presence and consistency are two main parenting
hacks. And first of all, Dr. Dre, I wanted you
to tell us a little bit about this book and what
your inspiration was to create it. And then mention,
if you would, how some of the behaviors of, let's
say, again, presence and consistency really translate
into how teachers can effectively manage a classroom
and try and mediate student behavior. Yeah. So
how the book started was actually when I was
a college professor, I taught a class called
Applied Sports Psychology. And this is actually
the first chapter in the book. And it was actually
co -taught by our head swimming and diving coach.
And I remember we started teaching it and it
was a highly popular class. I remember the first
year we taught it, we gave a textbook. And the
co -teacher got up because I asked a question
on the very first day of like actual lectures.
And finally, the co -teacher stood up. And he's
like, did any of you guys read? And they're all
like, no, because college students don't read
textbooks. Textbooks are boring. They're too
long. They're too academic. And so we're like,
okay. Then the second semester we did a book
and they liked it better, but they still weren't
that big of fans of it. And we're like, okay,
we hear you. So then the third semester that
we taught it, we ended up going with. this book
and it was called The Mind Gym and it was short
chapters and coach, that's what I called him,
coach got up on the first day of class when I
was going through syllabus day and he's like,
you all, there is no excuses for you not reading
because you can literally read this book in the
time it takes you to poop. And then when I was
working on like writing this parenting book,
I'm like, okay, what is it going to make my book
stand out compared to the other parenting book?
And I started like just brain dump. And then
it hit me and I was like, oh my goodness, I'm
going to write. practical parenting tips in chapters
so that they can read them in the time that it
takes someone to poop. And so I did all of the
research on like, how long should it actually
take us to poop? And guess what? It's actually
only a minute, but you should not be sitting
on the toilet for longer than five minutes. So
each of the chapters can be read in under five
minutes. And I usually say five to seven minutes
just to kind of save my hiney. I have this phrase
where I talk about, we want to parent, we want
to teach, we want to be. business leaders by
setting high expectations within the context
of the warm and fuzzies. And so I break the chapter,
the sections. The first one is like the fundamentals
of all parenting. So if you're not doing anything
else, do these things. And one of them is consistency.
And I had this just this week with one of my
clients, and we were talking about like how their
parent is inconsistent. Like you're going to
be there one day and do something. And then the
next day, you're a little bit more lackadaisical.
And I was talking to the parent. He's also a
college professor. And I was like, look, if you
go to the chair of your department and you ask
him for something and he completely blows you
off and like blows up on you, you're going to
be like, oh, and then the next day you go in
and you ask him for something else. And he's
like super kind and like helpful. You're going
to have no idea as like how to proceed because
us as human beings love consistency. So that's
the number one tip that I talk a lot. lot about
is as a teacher, as a parent, as a boss, the
more consistent that you can be, the better off
it is. We're humans. We're going to have days
where we're going to kind of veer off from that,
but there should be like a relatively consistent
range. And if there's days that you're having
a bad day, well then like communicate that with
your kids, your students, with your employees,
like, Hey, I'm just having a crap day today.
So like, if I see him, little off, like that's
what's going on. And I think you prepare them
to be like, okay, this is why he's acting different.
And they're not left guessing. Right. And you
also talk about presence because again, being
a parent or being a teacher is not that spectator
sport. And being a student is also not a spectator
sport. I tell my students all the time, if you
want to succeed, be present, show up, join the
conversation. What are some different ways that
educators can be consistent in managing their
classroom behaviors and still communicate those
expectations from day one to day 180? Yeah. So
let's go back to presence real quick. So presence
is huge because I always talk about if you want
to succeed in anything that you are doing, the
number one thing you have to do is show up. I
think if for teachers, and I know like teachers,
especially like K through 12, like sometimes
when that bell rings at three o 'clock or whatever,
you want to get out the door. But if you can
stay around a little bit longer or show up to
some of the events, or have special time or office
hours, college professors, like show up for your
office hours and be present or come 10 minutes
before your class starts and stay, be willing
to stay for five to 10 minutes after your class
ends and just be that presence and show up. You
have no idea and like show interest in people
so that when you're there for that 10 minutes
before class starts, you're not just shuffling
things like you're interacting with your class.
You're having conversations with them. You're
not just. on your phone prepping, but like you're
engaged, you're showing up, you have that presence.
The same thing goes with parents. That dad that
I was talking about earlier this week, he...
His kid had a pretty big escalation in the last
week and it became very conflictual and it all
stemmed from his dad being on his phone. And
so it caused a lot of problems and it was like,
you need to be present. And even if you guys
are watching TV, don't be on your phone because
your kids believe like, oh, we're having time
with dad. We're watching a show with him. That's
what they're expecting. That's what they envision.
That's their image in their mind. And then if
you're over here on your phone, like you're not
actually engaging with them at all. And so I
think it's having that consistent behavior, that
consistent presence where they know that when
they show up for class, that's another question
that I always ask the TAs. I would be like, what
makes you reinforcing? Why should students want
to get up at 8 a .m. and come to your class?
What is it going to be about you as a professor
that's going to make them want to come? Because
if you're just up there and you're like Charlie
Brown's teacher, like no one's going to. want
to come up. So you have to, and yes, it's like
kind of exhausting because you're like, I don't
want to be an entertainer, but to some extent
you have to have an entertainment value because
you have to be reinforcing. So presence. And
then if you, once you can conquer presence, once
you can up it to some kind of entertainment value,
you don't have to be a comedian or something
like that, but it has to be reinforcing. It has
to be fun. Absolutely. And it lets me think that
like, even as educators, when we are present
for our students before the bell, after the bell,
greeting them at the door, having small conversations
and focusing on what we call to be the micro
moments when they come in, which are just conversations
to help build partnerships, right? Like my students
this semester are following me on my LinkedIn
profile for business communication and networking.
So when they come in and be like, oh, saw you
got that internship. Congratulations. Tell me
more about it. And you talked about the relationship
bank model as well, right? When we invest into
our students' well -being and show that we care
about them as people, I think the outcomes are
stronger because they see us as a human who really
wants to invest in their success, most importantly.
One of the things that... I would do to kind
of build those relationships with my students
as a professor was on the first day of syllabus
day, I would always have an index card. And on
the index card, they would always write down
like their name. And I would always tell them,
write down if you have a nickname, whatever you
want me to call you by. But I would warn them
like, whatever you want, like whatever you put
down is forever what Dr. Mata will call you.
And they're like, okay. And so one guy literally
put like coyote. And so even now as He's like
a chiropractor. He'll send me emails and I'll
be like, Coyote, how are you doing? He's like,
I'm doing great, Dr. Motto. And so on that card,
so like not only would they put their name, they'd
put their year, they would put down what their
major was in their minor. I'd ask them like,
why are you taking this class? And I tell them
to be honest, like you're not going to hurt my
feelings if you're just taking this class because
it's required, but put that down. A question
that they would like to have answered throughout
the semester. And then I would actually like
on the first day, I would list out all their
questions and then put them across the semester
in my planning to make sure that I answered all
of the questions throughout the semester. semester.
And then the last thing was a fun fact. So like
something interesting, something that they were
okay with me knowing and like bringing up in
the middle of class. I think like having that
index card allows you to have that relationship
with your students. And then that also makes
it super enjoyable and reinforcing because then
you're having a conversation then with your students
instead of just talking at them. You can have
conversations with them. Exactly. So I kind of
do the same thing as well. And when it comes
to icebreakers, I've had plenty of classes where
you go around the room one by one and say your
name and your major and your favorite food. That's
lovely. But for my icebreakers, I have the students
get up. They're actually interacting somehow.
We do all these different types of games that
require their movement. We always do that on
day one. And then we do it again on the last
day of class. Once they've all known each other,
we redo it as if it was the first day all over
again. And throughout the semester, I too also
try and get to know their names as quickly as
I can. Like when they have their pictures available
through the, I don't know, like the instructor
platform or whatnot. I study that not to be a
creep, but I just study that for days and days
before the semester begins. So I can match their
face with their names when they walk through
my door for the first time. what has taught me
is that especially when you then start to build
for me is like community circles and having everybody
sit in a circle so they can look at each other
and instead of having lecture we actually do
just have daily discussion i think the most important
way to continue having that presence and consistency
is to not just build partnerships with the students
but really strive to get the students to form
partnerships with each other And I think when
the classroom community flourishes because everybody
is there to be on the same field as everybody,
the whole climate can really start to thrive
in that sense. And it makes them feel safe as
well. Yeah. So one of my favorite class when
I was at the university, it was a class that
I created dating in the 21st century. And it
was all. discussion based and there was always
more students in it than we were actually supposed
to have because like all the women would like
flock to it and fill it up and i was like i can't
teach a dating class without any men and so then
i would have to add in men And I remember the
first time that I taught it, there was like 15
women and seven men. And they created the men
all on their own because we did like a big, it
was a long circle. And the men on their own created
guy's corner. So all the guys sat in one corner
of the circle so that they could provide support
to each other. I routinely got on course evaluations
that that was the best course the students had
ever taken because they were expected to read
some kind like an empirical article or from a
book or something. And then they were supposed
to come in and then everyone there would be two
people that would like or one person would lead
the discussion for that day. So a classmate would
lead a conversation. And ask questions. And the
one rule for the class that I kind of established
at the very beginning was like, you are allowed
to say whatever it is that you want to say in
this class. And no one can tell you that they're
offended by to shut you down. If you are offended,
you have to sit back. And the onus and responsibility
is on you to figure out like, why are you offended
by what that person just said? And then you're
supposed to ask questions to that person to have
a conversation. So if you can't do that, this
class is not for you. But I never had anyone
drop it. And we had really good conversations
in there. And it never, I mean, it never got
heated because everyone was really wanting to
learn why people. were thinking and why people
had experiences and why they had opinions. And
it was just this amazing class because students
actually felt safe to discuss things because
no matter what, we couldn't be attacked. My very
first semester in 2020, my chair came to me and
he said, okay, your job is to go in there and
lecture. People are paying because you are the
experts. They want to hear you lecture. And I'm
like, yeah, are they really? Are they really
like, you can't lead me to believe that seriously.
And I feel like even at the graduate level, even
if students are looking at Dr. Weisler, who was
like this all knowing, no, I'm not. And I always
like to emphasize the students and I'm talking
here to all levels, even from K to 12, you might
not see it. I mean, okay. Elementary school,
this might be less applicable, but I really do
like to see all of our educators at the same.
Not cognitive, of course, but the same thought
level as their students mean that we're all equals.
There's not one person who's over here with everybody
else down there. We're all just humans living
a human experience. And I think the classroom
is a place where we can validate that. So when
you talk about that group conversation, I love
that because I think when we allow. everybody
to be part of the conversation again even in
middle school and high school when you let those
students focus on their people skills that goes
into the intentional learning where they can
get the outcomes by socializing with each other
and having those conversations to maximize whatever
discourse is trying to happen in that space so
it leads me to think about when it comes to just
children and students working through all different
types of struggles and events One thing that
really grabbed my attention when you spoke with
us on Phil's podcast is that you mentioned that
there are differences that you have with trauma
-informed programs and schools. And I definitely
wanted to learn all about that because on the
classroom narratives and in my dissertation,
that's what I try and analyze. And I'll admit,
I just wrote a whole dissertation, 300 pages
on trauma -informed ed, and I'm still looking
at this like, okay, but. What does it do? So
I want to bring in another expert as you and
tell us about that. And when it comes to trauma
informed ed and classrooms as well, what are
some misconceptions that we have for children
and even educators in terms of emotional adaptability?
Yeah. So I would love to have a conversation
about this because from here's my story. The
first time that I heard about trauma informed
ed was I was wanting to partner with a local
middle school. And what I was offering the principal
was I was going to train my undergrad psych majors
to go into these schools and run these coping
skills groups. And so I met with the principal
and we sat down and we're like talking and I'm
like telling her what I want to do. And she looks
at me and goes, well, and keep in mind, this
is back in like 20. 2014, 2015, something like
that. So this is like 10, 11 years ago. Before
it's time, yeah. And so when it first started
coming out and she looked at me and she's like,
oh, well, we're a trauma -informed school. And
I had never heard it before. And I was like,
oh, okay. And she's like, do you know what that
means? And I was like. No. I'm like, please tell
me, educate me. And she's like, okay. I still
remember the exact example she gave me. She's
like, so if an eighth grader tells the bus driver
to F off, we are not going to give him a consequence
because we're just going to assume that he witnessed
his dad like shoot up the night before. And that's
why he's like on edge. And that's why he told
the bus driver to F off. And I remember just
sitting back and being like, Because I had just
come off of my internship for clinical psychology
to get my PhD. I had to do a year internship
somewhere in the United States. I did mine at
a place called Boys Town, which is a residential
treatment facility. And it's a heavy behavioral
program. So we focus on behaviors. We don't really
pay attention to thoughts. We don't really pay
attention to emotions. It's all about the behaviors.
And I'm just thinking about this from like a
behavioral standpoint. I was like, but. I mean,
I get it, but at the same time, like there still
needs to be a consequence for that behavior.
And so then obviously we did not partner. And
so now that I've just kind of, as I'm hearing
more and more trauma -informed ad come out, it
really puts, I hesitate a little bit about it
in schools, or not a little bit, a lot, is because
of the focus on feelings. Because when I teach,
My clients, I like to teach them the psychology
triangle that our psychology is made up of three
things. It's made up of our thoughts, our behaviors,
and our feelings. And there's one of those that
we have absolutely no control over. And it's
our emotions. That's our feelings. Or if we're
focusing as teachers, as educators, as principals,
as authority figures, as parents, if we're focusing
solely on their feelings. they have no control
over it. And really emotions and our feelings
are just signals to what is going on in our environment.
And we still need to teach them how to challenge
those thoughts that are making them feel a certain
kind of way. And they still should be expected
to behave in line with the expectations, regardless
of what their feelings are. Because when they
become adults, they can't go into the workforce
and be like, hey, I don't really feel like doing
this today. That's my feeling. That's my truth.
And so I'm just not going to do it today. The
boss would be like, okay, you're fired. And it
is happening. I think it's 61 % of businesses
in America have fired a Gen Z employee within
the first few months of hiring them because of
a variety of reasons. So is trauma -informed
synonymous to behavioral problems or behavioral
circumstances that exist in the school's climate
as you've seen it? I think when I hear trauma
informed education, it always makes me think
of, I remember there would be workshops that
I would hear about and it would be like, all
children have trauma. And I'd pause and be like,
not all children have. trauma. Because I think
of trauma from like the DSM, the manual that
we use to diagnose things. Trauma is very specific.
So like you've been sexually assaulted, you have
been injured, or your life was in jeopardy, or
you witnessed any of those three things. Like
that's my version. That's my definition of trauma.
And I think we've experienced a lot of concept
creep. Like we've kind of expanded out what the
definition of trauma. to include stressful life
events and adverse childhood experiences. And
I don't think that concept creep of kind of everything
is trauma. And then we have big T and little
t. I don't think that's serving our youth very
well. Yeah, I have a few guests on the podcast.
I would agree with you that the word trauma has
become a little bit more trivial. So would you
say that trauma -informed education is not talking
about trauma or bringing up trauma with students,
but rather just focusing on their social skills
to maneuver a productive human experience? From
my experience, I think it's much more like the
trauma -informed is much more about like their
emotional reactions to situations. I think the
other issue that I have with trauma informed
is that I don't think it's the intent, but it
does convey to our students that they are broken,
that our youth are broken. And I don't want our
youth to have that view of themselves because
then self -fulfilling prophecy comes in. It's
like, well, if these authority figures at these
teachers and my parents and all these people
that are smart people say that I'm broken or
that I'm traumatized, well, then I'm going to.
start acting in ways that broken people act and
we start acting in ways that traumatize people
act. And I don't think that's the case. So then
in thinking of those respects, so what are some
misconceptions that we then have about trauma
-informed education that we can help our students
in terms of being more emotionally adept? Yeah.
So I think one of the biggest things that I teach
my clients is I teach them like, hey, let's understand.
your emotions. And so I do a series of activities
with them. I first teach them about the psychology
triangle. And then the second step is I teach
them about emotions and like, okay, list out
six emotions. And then, okay, how do we know
when someone is experiencing those emotions?
What do they look like? How do they sound? How
do they move? How do they carry themselves? And
so I ask them all of those things. And then we
figure out, okay, what emotion are we trying
to understand specifically for you? Is it anxiety?
Anxiety? Is it anger? Is it frustration? Is it
stressed? And I'm like, okay, that's the emotion
we want to focus on. We want to focus on anxiety.
Awesome. Okay, then pick mom or dad, pick one
of your siblings, and then pick your best friend.
How does that specific person experience those
emotions? And then once we figure that out, then
I ask them, okay, how does your body tell you
that you are anxious? What does your body do?
What does your mind do? And then we talk about
emotion regulation and how when something happens,
our emotions are going to go up, up, up, up,
up. They're going to peak. And sometimes they're
going to volcano out and then they're naturally
going to come down. And from the time that something
happens to the time that like our emotions naturally
come down, it's about 10 to 20 minutes. And so
our goal is to like not do anything kind of unhelpful
or unproductive at that peak. And so then we
talk about like their anxiety buildup. So as
they go up, what is their body doing? So like
the other day I had a client, like I get shaky,
I get mad. I think about all of the bad things
that have happened to me. And then I yell and
then I start doing all this other stuff. And
so then we get to start to see like, okay, when
you start to shake, do you shake any other time?
And she's like, no. Well, then that's the first
sign that you are starting to be anxious or angry,
frustrated, stressed. And so like, we want to
try to figure out reasonable, socially appropriate
ways for you to regulate your emotions. And so
then we're like, okay, then we got into like
the fight flight freeze cycle. And we talked
about like completing the cycle. And so hers
is like fight. And I was like, okay, well, what
are some socially appropriate ways? for you to
complete your fight cycle that doesn't involve
you yelling at people. And I was like, okay,
well, like what mimics fighting? pushups mimic
fighting and like doing kickboxing, like shadow
boxing, doing what else, like slam balls mimics
fighting. And so like try to do those things
to see whether or not you can remove yourself
or stop yourself from going into that escalation.
And so I think it's those kinds of things that
we want to be teaching our students. that how
to regulate their emotions in a good, effective
way. Wonderful. Thank you so much for that. And
what would you consider to be some of the most
important tips from the number two parenting
book that teachers can use in their classrooms
as well? And what would you say would be to be
like the secret ingredient for the secret sauce
and being able to thrive in education? What would
that look like as well? Okay, top tips. So I'll
pull, we already talked about consistency, so
I won't talk about consistency again. But I will
talk, and this kind of answers your second question,
Joey, adapt. So there's a chapter in the book
called Adapt, Adapt, Adapt. And so I am all about
raising and building adaptable youth. And what
that means is I want to teach youth and Gen Z
to have enough. Individual skills, relationship
skills, coping skills, so that regardless of
what environment they go into, they can sit back,
they can assess, and then they can pull skills
out of their toolbox and they can thrive in any
environment that they go in. So whether that's
relationship skills, coping skills, individual
skills, like managing their own emotions, those
kinds of things. And so there's a chapter in
the... the book about adapting. How do we problem
solve on the spot? How do we assess the situation?
How do we come up with solutions to the problem?
And then how do we execute it? So I think that's
one. I think another tip would be for... in the
book is like why kids do what they do so figuring
out like the four functions of children's behavior
so are they doing things because of attention
are they doing things because they're trying
to get out of something so escape and avoidance
are they doing things because they're getting
something out of it something tangible or are
they doing stuff because it feels good and that
is by far the most frustrating for parents and
teachers because you look at them and you're
like why did you do that and they're like because
I wanted to And the teacher's like, that's not
a good enough excuse. And the kid's like, I wanted
to. And like a lot of the times I'll look at
parents and the parents were like, answer me.
And I'm like, they did answer you. And they're
like, no, they didn't. And I'm like, that's literally
the answer. And they're like, but that's so frustrating.
I'm like, I get it, but that's the answer. And
then the last one in the book that I talk about
is the five to one ratio. So I steal this from
Dr. John Gottman. He's a leading expert in marriage.
And he can predict by watching a couple. For
five minutes, he can predict with like a 95 %
accuracy whether or not the couple will get a
divorce. And it's the five to one positive to
negative ratio. So for every one negative interaction
that you have with a child or a student, there's
then five positive interactions that you have
to have with that student in order to make up
for things. And that seems exhausting. But when
I used to also teach a workshop to new faculty
coming in. at the university that I was at was
on like building relationships. And so I would
tell them, I was like, hey, whenever you feel
like sending like a nasty email to your students,
don't. Because for every nasty email that you
send to your students, there's five like positive
things that you need to do for them or with them
in order to get that relationship back on like
good footing. So I think that's probably the
other tip that I would give. Thank you so much
for that. That's definitely helpful for our teachers
to hear as well. And what are some ways that
our listeners can get in touch with you? So my
website, so andrea@brightspotfamilies .com
is my email. My website is brightspotfamilies
.com. And then I'm very active on LinkedIn. So
it's just Andrea Mata, PhD. We'll have that available
in the show notes as well. So that was Dr. Andrea
Mata reminding us that behind every resilient
child is a community of informed adults, which
include us as educators as well. So be sure to
check out the number two parenting book. And
if today's episode resonated with you, share
it with a fellow educator, parent, or even student
teacher. And as always, keep showing up for both
yourself and your students. We'll see you next
time here in the Classroom Narrators podcast.
Thank you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives
Healing and Education Podcast. If today's episode
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