WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.439 Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing in 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:04.900 Education podcast, the space where education 00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:09.019 meets resilience. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in 00:00:09.019 --> 00:00:11.400 each episode, we dive deep into the personal 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:15.099 stories of educators, students, leaders, and 00:00:15.099 --> 00:00:18.079 frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:21.260 within modern education. Whether you're just 00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:23.879 starting your teaching journey, or are we seasoned 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:26.260 professionals looking for inspiration, we'll 00:00:26.260 --> 00:00:29.059 explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent 00:00:29.059 --> 00:00:31.859 burnout, and build trauma -informed communities 00:00:31.859 --> 00:00:34.979 within our schools. Now, let's take a seat at 00:00:34.979 --> 00:00:36.799 the front of the classroom as we get started. 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:40.340 Hey everyone, Joey here. And today I'm joined 00:00:40.340 --> 00:00:43.700 by Megan Farison, who is a music educator, a 00:00:43.700 --> 00:00:47.100 writer, and the author of Dissonance, a memoir 00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:49.539 that doesn't let you look away from how deep 00:00:49.539 --> 00:00:52.020 some wounds can run, even when we don't really 00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:54.659 talk about them all that much. And in this conversation, 00:00:54.780 --> 00:00:56.880 we're getting real about the partnerships between 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:59.659 teachers and students and thinking about how 00:00:59.659 --> 00:01:02.780 trust is built, how boundaries matter, and what 00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:05.290 happens when... even collective trauma shows 00:01:05.290 --> 00:01:07.849 up at your school. So I'm so grateful that Megan's 00:01:07.849 --> 00:01:09.250 here to help us through some of these thoughts. 00:01:09.370 --> 00:01:11.430 And let's go ahead and dive right into it. Megan, 00:01:11.469 --> 00:01:14.530 welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having 00:01:14.530 --> 00:01:16.549 me. I'm really excited about all the things we're 00:01:16.549 --> 00:01:18.870 going to talk about. Thank you for doing this 00:01:18.870 --> 00:01:21.930 show. It's a true pleasure of mine. And I was 00:01:21.930 --> 00:01:23.870 just saying to Megan before we began that I had 00:01:23.870 --> 00:01:26.750 just spent my week reading her memoir, Dissonance, 00:01:26.909 --> 00:01:29.750 leading up to this conversation and listening 00:01:29.750 --> 00:01:32.109 to it as an audio book in public throughout New 00:01:32.109 --> 00:01:34.569 York City. The different looks in my face throughout 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:38.769 the week were just, it was shock, it was horror, 00:01:38.909 --> 00:01:41.269 it was poignant, it was anguish, but it was also 00:01:41.269 --> 00:01:43.650 a hint of resilience and coming forward with 00:01:43.650 --> 00:01:45.549 Megan's story. And we're going to have a link 00:01:45.549 --> 00:01:47.010 to that in the show notes for those who wish 00:01:47.010 --> 00:01:50.500 to learn more. Megan, I want to start our conversation 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:53.319 today by thinking about student safety and healthy 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.400 boundaries. You mentioned in your text on page 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.840 47, actually, for those who go back and reference 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:02.099 it, you said, "as a teacher, I never needed a 00:02:02.099 --> 00:02:04.340 class to tell me I shouldn't have romantic relationships 00:02:04.340 --> 00:02:06.900 with my students. It was instinctively clear 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:09.379 the power I held over students in the classroom. 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:12.159 I knew I had the potential to raise them up or 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.960 tear them down. I knew it was my job to be a 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.620 role model, not an object of romantic affection. 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:20.479 If a student even looked at me a certain way, 00:02:20.580 --> 00:02:22.840 as if they might have feelings for me that went 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.500 beyond respect, I added caution to my behavior 00:02:26.500 --> 00:02:29.039 because I remember the feeling of being a teenager 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:31.539 with a crush on her teacher, and I didn't want 00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:34.960 to do anything to encourage those feelings." So 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.639 this first question speaks to all educators out 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.439 there who really try and go the extra mile to 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:45.900 let their students be seen. valued, and heard, 00:02:45.979 --> 00:02:47.780 especially for those students who find themselves 00:02:47.780 --> 00:02:49.900 in dark places and those teachers everywhere. 00:02:50.139 --> 00:02:53.439 We appreciate all the advocacy that you do. And 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:56.259 as teachers, we know that our situations can 00:02:56.259 --> 00:03:00.319 be very precarious when even though we have these 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.599 genuine and innocent actions to, dare I say, 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:08.189 rescue a child who may be going through a lot 00:03:08.189 --> 00:03:10.610 of struggles. And the act of trying to rescue 00:03:10.610 --> 00:03:12.669 the child may come off as sometimes even publicly 00:03:12.669 --> 00:03:16.689 misconstrued. And I too was an educator who used 00:03:16.689 --> 00:03:19.370 to have my classroom designed as that safe space 00:03:19.370 --> 00:03:22.129 during lunch for children who either found themselves 00:03:22.129 --> 00:03:25.169 alone or in one instance, I had a child who was 00:03:25.169 --> 00:03:26.870 eating in the bathroom and I invited them into 00:03:26.870 --> 00:03:29.650 my classroom as well for safety because to me 00:03:29.650 --> 00:03:32.150 it was a safety issue. How could you allow that 00:03:32.150 --> 00:03:36.199 to go unnoticed as a school staff member? I wanted 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:39.860 to begin for Megan by just challenging that or 00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:42.060 observing that deeper and thinking about what 00:03:42.060 --> 00:03:45.939 are some ways that educators everywhere can really 00:03:45.939 --> 00:03:50.240 pay attention to student safety while maintaining 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:52.139 healthy boundaries within their classrooms and 00:03:52.139 --> 00:03:54.520 their practices? Thank you for that question. 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:58.699 So it's multi -layered and can be very complex, 00:03:58.860 --> 00:04:02.530 but... I think that what it comes down to is 00:04:02.530 --> 00:04:06.069 that you have to balance what resources you have 00:04:06.069 --> 00:04:09.650 as a teacher. You can't give everything to one 00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:12.210 kid. And there are many reasons why you shouldn't 00:04:12.210 --> 00:04:15.189 do that, right? But you're a teacher of many. 00:04:15.330 --> 00:04:18.750 You have many souls in your classroom. And you 00:04:18.750 --> 00:04:22.170 have to figure out a way to balance the energy 00:04:22.170 --> 00:04:24.930 that you're giving to each student. And that 00:04:24.930 --> 00:04:27.230 doesn't mean there's a difference between, what 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:31.069 do they say, equity and equality. That, yes, 00:04:31.350 --> 00:04:33.649 there are going to be times when you are going 00:04:33.649 --> 00:04:36.490 to give more attention to one student than another 00:04:36.490 --> 00:04:40.230 for a myriad of reasons. But you always have 00:04:40.230 --> 00:04:44.149 to both be looking at your students as individuals, 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:47.129 but also as the whole. Think like you're a shepherd 00:04:47.129 --> 00:04:49.430 of a flock, right? To be a little bit biblical, 00:04:49.610 --> 00:04:52.209 right? But you are. This is your flock. And your 00:04:52.209 --> 00:04:56.759 job is to take care of them. Even before you 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.259 take care of their minds in the sense of pouring 00:04:59.259 --> 00:05:02.920 information into them, you are caring for their 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.439 mind in that you are protecting it from harm 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.600 as best as you can. That your job ultimately 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:12.420 is that when that student or those students leave 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:16.379 your room, that they will have not incurred trauma 00:05:16.379 --> 00:05:21.959 because of you, because of actions. I will be 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.740 very transparent in saying that we are not perfect, 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:30.259 and there will be times when I think we will 00:05:30.259 --> 00:05:33.879 cause trauma and not mean to. Agreed. I'm thinking 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:37.519 of a very specific story. It was in my first 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:41.000 teaching job, so it was probably my, oh, I'm 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.180 thinking maybe my third or fourth year of teaching, 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:46.540 and I was doing an audition. I was alone with 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:48.699 a student doing a voice audition for the following 00:05:48.699 --> 00:05:55.360 year's ensembles. And she said to me, Mrs. Farison, 00:05:55.579 --> 00:06:02.019 why do you hate me? And I was so shocked by this. 00:06:02.139 --> 00:06:05.540 And you know how the brain can sort of amplify 00:06:05.540 --> 00:06:08.459 things. So it's possible she said, why do you 00:06:08.459 --> 00:06:13.259 not like me? Right. But it felt so, oh, because 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:17.800 I loved this student. She was amazing. She was 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.000 so smart. She showed up every day and she did 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:24.879 exactly what she was supposed to do. And that's 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.339 why she went under the radar. Because oftentimes 00:06:28.339 --> 00:06:32.259 we tend to have our attention pulled by the extremes, 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:37.240 by the kids that are very extroverted and they're 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:39.000 raising their hand a lot and they're participating 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.800 a lot. And then you have the students on the 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:44.899 other side that are maybe disrupting. the room 00:06:44.899 --> 00:06:48.199 and so you're like building up these and you're 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:50.000 trying to build up these kids over here and get 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:52.480 that so that everything works and sometimes we 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:54.720 miss the kids in the middle that are just showing 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.379 up every day and doing the thing every day and 00:06:59.379 --> 00:07:04.920 it really was eye -opening for me that as a person 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.939 who has incurred trauma and for most of her life 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:12.800 has lived in the extremes that has had a hard 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:18.279 time living in the middle it's interesting looking 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:20.779 back and realizing that those are the students 00:07:20.779 --> 00:07:24.519 that I missed at least with that one i know that 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:27.399 I did that I could have done better by her I 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:29.839 was so glad that she said something to me because 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:32.699 it gave me an opportunity to have dialogue with 00:07:32.699 --> 00:07:35.939 her and to say oh my goodness no I care about 00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:38.220 you so much and to validate her feelings at the 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:40.889 same time though. And there was an opportunity 00:07:40.889 --> 00:07:43.589 there, right? I mean, already she was having 00:07:43.589 --> 00:07:45.769 these negative feelings and whether you can put 00:07:45.769 --> 00:07:48.230 that in trauma or just very negative impact. 00:07:48.889 --> 00:07:50.670 Trauma is something that stays with you, right? 00:07:50.730 --> 00:07:52.769 And lasts and who knows how that could affect 00:07:52.769 --> 00:07:56.250 her. But she gave me an opportunity to try to 00:07:56.250 --> 00:07:59.050 heal that a little bit, to try to help her to 00:07:59.050 --> 00:08:03.259 process that. So it's a tough thing. Like I said, 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:05.519 there's so many sort of directions my mind can 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:10.300 go in about this. But as far as balancing taking 00:08:10.300 --> 00:08:13.019 care of your students and you want to care for 00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:15.879 them, but you also want to respect boundaries. 00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:19.899 I want us to consider how then do we meet those 00:08:19.899 --> 00:08:21.800 students in the middle? Not everybody wants to 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:25.480 come to school and build a partnership with their 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:27.259 instructors. They just want to come do the job 00:08:27.259 --> 00:08:35.120 and leave. respectfully by choice just show up 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.779 and get the job done how can we still include 00:08:37.779 --> 00:08:40.000 them and meet them in the middle and help level 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:44.639 the equilibrium. This is a really interesting 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.200 question you're really challenging me today because 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:52.840 honestly my first response when you said there 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:54.519 are those kids that just want to show up they 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:57.039 want to do the work and they want to leave my 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:02.950 gut reaction was let them respect them For them, 00:09:02.950 --> 00:09:05.610 the way that you make sure your children, their 00:09:05.610 --> 00:09:07.769 basic needs are met. When we talk about the hierarchy 00:09:07.769 --> 00:09:11.370 of needs, there are kids that only need the foundation. 00:09:11.809 --> 00:09:15.669 You are providing a stable environment in which 00:09:15.669 --> 00:09:18.289 they can learn and do their thing and then leave 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:21.450 and go on to the next thing. Then I think that 00:09:21.450 --> 00:09:26.309 is okay. And I love how you do mention, Joey, 00:09:26.389 --> 00:09:28.710 that need to feel safe and supporting that as 00:09:28.710 --> 00:09:32.970 educators. I'm going to say what educators probably 00:09:32.970 --> 00:09:35.710 think, but don't really vocalize what this platform 00:09:35.710 --> 00:09:38.070 is for to say what they're thinking. I would 00:09:38.070 --> 00:09:41.750 say to meet students in the middle is significantly 00:09:41.750 --> 00:09:44.210 easier at the college level where I teach because 00:09:44.210 --> 00:09:45.970 they're paying to be there. They're old enough 00:09:45.970 --> 00:09:48.610 to make that choice where we actually joke in 00:09:48.610 --> 00:09:51.409 my classes where we have the core and then we 00:09:51.409 --> 00:09:54.070 have the background actors. And if you want to 00:09:54.070 --> 00:09:56.610 be a background actor. That's fine. You're still 00:09:56.610 --> 00:09:58.870 paying the same tuition as everybody else. Whatever 00:09:58.870 --> 00:10:02.549 outcomes you want at the end of the semester, 00:10:02.750 --> 00:10:05.710 that's on you. And I'm still going to walk out 00:10:05.710 --> 00:10:09.889 in December or May or July and proceed into my 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:13.990 next term. And that's that. At the K -12 level, 00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:17.450 I think the challenges and the stakes are significantly 00:10:17.450 --> 00:10:21.230 higher because the student cannot advocate for 00:10:21.230 --> 00:10:24.649 themselves at that age, meaning there's the state 00:10:24.649 --> 00:10:27.750 tests. There's my job on the line if I'm a K 00:10:27.750 --> 00:10:30.230 -12 educator. There's leadership. There's their 00:10:30.230 --> 00:10:34.970 parents. And there's a lot more armor that that 00:10:34.970 --> 00:10:39.309 student is working with that puts me in a position 00:10:39.309 --> 00:10:42.990 in terms of for me to succeed in my job and even, 00:10:43.029 --> 00:10:46.370 dare I say, keep my job. I have to kind of force 00:10:46.370 --> 00:10:50.049 that student to move away from the center and 00:10:50.049 --> 00:10:53.610 make them become more than just feeling safe. 00:10:53.690 --> 00:10:57.139 They have to actually... engage in the routines. 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:59.600 They can't spectate the class like they would 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:03.000 want to because spectating is safe for them. 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.080 We have to do more than that in K -12. College, 00:11:05.139 --> 00:11:07.659 no problem. That's fine. Especially in lecture 00:11:07.659 --> 00:11:09.580 halls with 300 students, you're expected to do 00:11:09.580 --> 00:11:12.820 nothing more than that. But at K -12, there is 00:11:12.820 --> 00:11:14.940 so much more. And especially for those educators, 00:11:15.139 --> 00:11:17.779 I'm wondering what skills we can offer them because 00:11:17.779 --> 00:11:23.149 truthfully, I'm not sure what they are. Well, 00:11:23.210 --> 00:11:25.350 I think if we had like the answer, we could sell 00:11:25.350 --> 00:11:30.169 it for a lot of money. Okay. But, but I will 00:11:30.169 --> 00:11:32.429 say when you're speaking, do you know, it is 00:11:32.429 --> 00:11:34.710 so interesting because again, we see everything 00:11:34.710 --> 00:11:36.950 through the narrative of our own life, of our 00:11:36.950 --> 00:11:40.309 own experiences. So when I was saying that they 00:11:40.309 --> 00:11:42.450 show up, they do the thing and that makes them 00:11:42.450 --> 00:11:46.470 feel safe because I have always been a high achiever. 00:11:47.210 --> 00:11:51.190 My idea of what showing up and doing the thing 00:11:51.190 --> 00:11:55.419 and feeling safe. is engaging right we want to 00:11:55.419 --> 00:11:58.659 be pushed and challenged i'm saying well it's 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:01.080 not that I don't want to engage the kids that 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.740 are just showing up and doing the thing in my 00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:06.320 mind through my narrative through my own eyes 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.759 is those are kids like me because I mean yes 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:12.500 I was class president and I did these things 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:17.279 but doing the thing is engaging. I think that's 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.539 because as a teacher, I have the expectation 00:12:19.539 --> 00:12:23.200 that you will engage, that I won't let you just 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:28.279 sit there and not be seen. And so I guess that's 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.399 just my standard. My base level standard is that 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:34.879 you are not going to get to sit to the side and 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:37.980 not be cared about. You're going to show up and 00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:40.279 you're going to get to be a part of the team. 00:12:41.210 --> 00:12:43.350 And teachers have different ways of approaching 00:12:43.350 --> 00:12:47.129 this, but I definitely removed some students, 00:12:47.169 --> 00:12:50.090 and I don't mean permanently from my class, but 00:12:50.090 --> 00:12:52.750 if there was a conflict, I've taught in rural 00:12:52.750 --> 00:12:56.929 schools, urban, inner city, and I've had to figure 00:12:56.929 --> 00:13:00.009 out sometimes I have to remove a student from 00:13:00.009 --> 00:13:03.570 the environment for safety reasons just because 00:13:03.570 --> 00:13:07.529 it's disrupting the learning environment. And 00:13:07.529 --> 00:13:12.669 as best as I can help it. I make sure to speak 00:13:12.669 --> 00:13:15.730 to that student at the end. Like I said, if you 00:13:15.730 --> 00:13:18.669 have the ability to move that student to a safe 00:13:18.669 --> 00:13:22.070 space and say, I want to talk to you at the end 00:13:22.070 --> 00:13:26.350 of class. And then you go back, you do your thing. 00:13:26.389 --> 00:13:30.690 And at the end, you have this opportunity to 00:13:30.690 --> 00:13:37.470 model forgiveness. Right. And so where some people 00:13:37.470 --> 00:13:41.009 may avoid that. I can look back on this and I 00:13:41.009 --> 00:13:43.549 can really see where kids really turned in a 00:13:43.549 --> 00:13:46.269 different direction because number one, I held 00:13:46.269 --> 00:13:49.129 them accountable. I cared enough to hold them 00:13:49.129 --> 00:13:51.610 accountable. I said, just like I was talking 00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:53.990 about on Leslie's podcast, you have to set not 00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:57.990 only the routines, but you have to also make 00:13:57.990 --> 00:14:01.840 your students aware of. Here's our system of 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:04.799 accountability. If you do this, this is how I'm 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:08.059 going to react. If you do this, this is the consequence 00:14:08.059 --> 00:14:11.100 so that you're not living in this unknown of 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.600 what's going to happen. So first off, I have 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.879 a student who knows the expectation. And I'm 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:20.740 thinking of a middle school girl right now. And 00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:23.220 I love middle school students. They're amazing. 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:27.620 And they're just it's a beautiful age. She just 00:14:27.620 --> 00:14:30.360 was very distracted and wasn't following expectations. 00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:33.200 And I had to remove her from that environment. 00:14:33.299 --> 00:14:35.919 And in this particular case, she went down to 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.120 the office and waited. And I went down there 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.559 and I sat next to her. I didn't stand over her. 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:45.940 I mean, the way that we are, right, and physically 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:49.220 the way we position ourselves with students matters. 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.700 We want to give them space and be respectful. 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:55.200 But I didn't want to be towering over her, looking 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.720 down at her while she sat in this chair in the 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:01.600 office. So I gently sat down next to her. And 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:05.399 the first, I think I asked her a question. I 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:09.419 said, what's going on? How are you doing? And 00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:12.460 she started to tell me. that she was having some 00:15:12.460 --> 00:15:16.299 challenges at home and started to open up about 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:18.679 some things, nothing that was like really traumatic, 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:21.440 but just things that kids are dealing with. And 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:23.740 so I listened to that. And then I always make 00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:26.720 sure to tell these kids that I remove and then 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:31.919 I go talk to, I want you to be there. Your presence 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:38.230 matters. So let's try again. And because they 00:15:38.230 --> 00:15:40.610 may not get that at home, they may do something 00:15:40.610 --> 00:15:43.730 at home and the parent yells at them or punishes 00:15:43.730 --> 00:15:46.629 them. And there is no talk after it that is loving 00:15:46.629 --> 00:15:50.950 and gentle. And so just basic human decency in 00:15:50.950 --> 00:15:54.230 that regard. And then so many times I've seen 00:15:54.230 --> 00:15:57.590 that where that the kid then shows up and it 00:15:57.590 --> 00:16:00.899 is different. And they know you care and they 00:16:00.899 --> 00:16:02.779 care and they feel they're a part of something. 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.139 It doesn't always work that way. But more times 00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:08.919 than not, when I went out of my way to talk to 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.480 a student and to be very clear about that they 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:16.779 matter and I want them there, but I have to respect 00:16:16.779 --> 00:16:19.379 boundaries just as they do. I have to follow 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:22.960 through. I've watched it do some pretty awesome 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.850 things. And as I'm thinking about a conversation 00:16:26.850 --> 00:16:29.669 that is going to be on our podcast with Nathan 00:16:29.669 --> 00:16:32.389 Ray, who says that one of the ways to actually 00:16:32.389 --> 00:16:35.070 bring students from that middle is through those 00:16:35.070 --> 00:16:38.210 micro moments. And he says a micro moment is 00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:40.769 taking time to connect with the student in terms 00:16:40.769 --> 00:16:43.889 of, oh, you're wearing a certain sports jersey 00:16:43.889 --> 00:16:45.649 today. You like that team? Tell me about your 00:16:45.649 --> 00:16:48.250 connection with them. Or what Nathan said that 00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:50.789 his sophomore English teacher called all the 00:16:50.789 --> 00:16:52.830 parents before the school year began and asked, 00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:54.980 what does your child like? They like Michael 00:16:54.980 --> 00:16:56.519 Jackson. OK, I'm going to have a Michael Jackson 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.899 poster in my room. They like the Mets. He didn't 00:16:59.899 --> 00:17:01.399 say the Mets, but I'm not a sports person. So 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:03.320 I'll just say they like the Mets. OK, they can 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.619 write a paper about that through one of our topics 00:17:05.619 --> 00:17:07.279 coming up. They can make a connection through 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:09.940 that way. And those micro moments and connecting 00:17:09.940 --> 00:17:13.099 to students through what they appreciate as part 00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:16.319 of their everyday likes can keep their interest 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.900 and draw them in as being a citizen in your classroom. 00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:22.079 I think that's the answer, Megan, to bring them 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.819 away from the middle, to connect with them through 00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:27.700 those micro moments. And I think in addition 00:17:27.700 --> 00:17:31.099 to having stability and routine in the classroom, 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:35.160 I also wonder, how can we use micro moments yet 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.180 still be safe in doing so? This reminds me, I 00:17:39.180 --> 00:17:42.740 just took a first aid for mental health training 00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:45.450 for youth. It's cool how they unite those two 00:17:45.450 --> 00:17:48.089 things together. Mental health first aid, right? 00:17:48.150 --> 00:17:50.490 Yes. How do you provide first aid to a student 00:17:50.490 --> 00:17:54.190 who is struggling in some way? And with micro 00:17:54.190 --> 00:17:57.170 moments, we can maybe sometimes feel overwhelmed, 00:17:57.269 --> 00:18:00.410 like, oh my goodness, it's going to be so hard 00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:02.170 to connect. What do I do? I have to do something 00:18:02.170 --> 00:18:05.690 special. And there's that idea, there's research 00:18:05.690 --> 00:18:10.450 that supports that one adult in a youth's life 00:18:10.450 --> 00:18:12.289 can be the difference between whether they're 00:18:12.289 --> 00:18:15.690 resilient. And they're not. And I would say the 00:18:15.690 --> 00:18:19.890 same thing about micro moments is that just as 00:18:19.890 --> 00:18:24.829 one moment can break a kid, one moment may be 00:18:24.829 --> 00:18:27.650 all it takes for them to feel like they noticed 00:18:27.650 --> 00:18:32.109 me. So how do you notice a kid, right? In an 00:18:32.109 --> 00:18:35.710 appropriate way? Well, clearly through the lens 00:18:35.710 --> 00:18:40.069 of the classroom, making sure that you are. verbally 00:18:40.069 --> 00:18:42.509 validating when your students speak. So if you're 00:18:42.509 --> 00:18:45.410 having a discussion in the classroom and you 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:47.750 choose a student, they raise their hand. And 00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:50.490 I would sometimes choose students that weren't 00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:53.049 raising their hand. I would look around the room 00:18:53.049 --> 00:18:56.630 and I would see. who I could maybe ask, but I'm 00:18:56.630 --> 00:18:59.150 careful to put students on the spot because I 00:18:59.150 --> 00:19:00.869 can do that when I feel like they're comfortable 00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:03.069 with me. And once I know they feel safe in the 00:19:03.069 --> 00:19:05.690 classroom, that I can start to pull them out 00:19:05.690 --> 00:19:08.430 of that comfort zone. And invite them into the 00:19:08.430 --> 00:19:11.589 dialogue. Yeah, and invite them in. And if they 00:19:11.589 --> 00:19:15.349 say, oh, I don't know, and they clam up, I don't 00:19:15.349 --> 00:19:19.490 then push. I may wait. And again, it's all dependent 00:19:19.490 --> 00:19:22.329 on the situation on the day on the student, but 00:19:22.329 --> 00:19:25.750 you have to read. that student's body language 00:19:25.750 --> 00:19:28.069 or they hide it what are they doing what do you 00:19:28.069 --> 00:19:29.890 know about the student it's a lot of information 00:19:29.890 --> 00:19:33.990 to balance but ultimately what is more important 00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:36.829 in that moment that you just yank that answer 00:19:36.829 --> 00:19:41.940 from that student or you assess the situation 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:44.019 which is the first thing you do we talked about 00:19:44.019 --> 00:19:45.579 this in the mental health first aid is you're 00:19:45.579 --> 00:19:47.859 assessing you're constantly assessing the situation 00:19:47.859 --> 00:19:51.519 yeah is how is the student reacting when i invite 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:54.240 them into the dialogue and maybe we just add 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:57.420 yet to this they're not ready yet yes agreed 00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:02.460 and i would also like if I had a student I would 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:05.160 use that as an opportunity in a more private 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.519 moment because if I know that student didn't 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:09.619 want to say anything out loud in front of people 00:20:10.670 --> 00:20:13.789 I may find a moment as they're leaving the classroom 00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:16.029 or maybe even the next day when they're coming 00:20:16.029 --> 00:20:20.890 in to say like, hey, that was okay that you didn't 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:24.990 answer. Let's try again. And what are you feeling 00:20:24.990 --> 00:20:27.170 about that? It's just, it's always an opportunity 00:20:27.170 --> 00:20:29.670 to open up this dialogue to learn more about 00:20:29.670 --> 00:20:32.710 them. And then maybe you try again down the road. 00:20:32.769 --> 00:20:35.210 But there are some students that will never feel 00:20:35.210 --> 00:20:38.009 comfortable being called on. And one of the, 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:44.309 I think, mistakes we make as educators or even 00:20:44.309 --> 00:20:47.230 the way we look at leaders is that leaders are 00:20:47.230 --> 00:20:50.970 extroverted. Leaders are charismatic and boisterous 00:20:50.970 --> 00:20:55.490 and leaders stand out among the crowd. And that's 00:20:55.490 --> 00:20:59.549 not how everybody leads. And it isn't how everybody 00:20:59.549 --> 00:21:04.049 learns. People learn differently. And our teachers 00:21:04.049 --> 00:21:06.230 also can be very I'm a very introverted person. 00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:10.250 I thrive in the classroom, but I. and very awkward 00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:13.869 in social settings. So how would you, Joey, then, 00:21:13.930 --> 00:21:17.509 you tell me through your lens, if we're doing 00:21:17.509 --> 00:21:21.410 an activity, how would you modify or meet the 00:21:21.410 --> 00:21:25.509 need of a student like you who feels more introverted, 00:21:25.509 --> 00:21:27.950 but you still want to have the opportunity to 00:21:27.950 --> 00:21:31.569 express yourself or participate? How would you 00:21:31.569 --> 00:21:34.950 vary that or modify where everyone has an ability 00:21:34.950 --> 00:21:37.569 to come to the table? Absolutely. And I'm going 00:21:37.569 --> 00:21:40.430 to have to model that in practice in about three 00:21:40.430 --> 00:21:43.210 hours at three o 'clock today with my Monday 00:21:43.210 --> 00:21:48.170 class. And what I do is that I form my classes 00:21:48.170 --> 00:21:50.589 in a circle like setting, meaning that we are 00:21:50.589 --> 00:21:54.289 in a scenario where we should be able to see 00:21:54.289 --> 00:21:56.789 and validate each other. I want to set up my 00:21:56.789 --> 00:21:59.089 classroom in a way that allows everybody to, 00:21:59.130 --> 00:22:02.089 again, be seen, validated and heard. I think 00:22:02.089 --> 00:22:04.049 those are the three pillars that. can really 00:22:04.049 --> 00:22:07.529 help any classroom for a student to be seen validated 00:22:07.529 --> 00:22:12.089 and heard and my classes are very discussion 00:22:12.089 --> 00:22:15.450 oriented you will highly unlikely see coming 00:22:15.450 --> 00:22:18.549 from me a multiple choice exam right or even 00:22:18.549 --> 00:22:21.869 a short answer quiz i'm all about here's the 00:22:21.869 --> 00:22:25.230 conversation and Let's write about the conversation 00:22:25.230 --> 00:22:27.470 for your written work. And your grade is pretty 00:22:27.470 --> 00:22:30.390 much contingent on either how you speak your 00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:32.650 way through the conversation or reflect about 00:22:32.650 --> 00:22:35.569 it if you didn't choose to share. And what I 00:22:35.569 --> 00:22:37.690 do is I, because again, I'm a humanities instructor, 00:22:37.809 --> 00:22:40.710 I have all my students sit around and I let them 00:22:40.710 --> 00:22:43.329 share first. Sometimes it is the same two or 00:22:43.329 --> 00:22:46.349 three voices. That's fine. But I will never single 00:22:46.349 --> 00:22:49.269 a student out, but I will absolutely single a 00:22:49.269 --> 00:22:51.930 group of students out. I'd be like, okay, so. 00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:57.359 Ben, Sarah, Liam, you 10 have not had a chance 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:01.180 to share yet. Do any of the 10 of you have anything 00:23:01.180 --> 00:23:03.460 that's on your mind to contribute? And that's 00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:06.480 how I don't ask them a question directly. But 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.900 my question is, tell us anything that may be 00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:12.900 on your mind at this second. Anything that you 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:15.200 want us to know that you're thinking about right 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:19.160 now in this moment. And it leaves it very open 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:23.539 for them. And if not. I did my job. I invited 00:23:23.539 --> 00:23:25.700 them into the conversation and I'll say, okay, 00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:28.359 thanks for letting me know. If you change your 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.519 mind or if something comes up, we're here and 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:33.519 we're able to listen to you. And I leave it as 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.859 an open invitation going forward for them. I 00:23:36.859 --> 00:23:39.500 really love that. I've never heard that approach 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:42.240 before where you call out. OK, so, so, so, so, 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.440 so we haven't heard from you. And so you're not 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.700 just saying one person's name. You say it, but 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:49.099 you say all these other people and they feel 00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:51.220 like they say that time. Exactly. We're in a 00:23:51.220 --> 00:23:55.230 group that that is. Lovely. That is lovely. So 00:23:55.230 --> 00:23:58.730 growing up, I was validly identified by my closest 00:23:58.730 --> 00:24:01.549 teachers as a separatist. And my twin brother 00:24:01.549 --> 00:24:03.829 had a much easier time than me making friends. 00:24:04.009 --> 00:24:06.829 And I typically would find comfort in eating 00:24:06.829 --> 00:24:09.700 alone, being alone. quite frankly, not being 00:24:09.700 --> 00:24:12.759 bothered, and other than the smallest circle 00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:14.759 of close peers that you can possibly imagine, 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:18.519 I truly saw my teachers as my true comrades during 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.900 my time in K -12. I visited the rooms at 7 .15 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:24.240 in the morning before the first bell at 7 .30, 00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:26.619 and I'd often spend lunches in the rooms with 00:24:26.619 --> 00:24:28.900 them as well, and even stick around for maybe 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:32.220 20 or so minutes after the seventh period dismissal 00:24:32.220 --> 00:24:35.299 bell to just Pack up slowly and chat with them. 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.940 And if anything, I found this to be humanizing. 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:39.920 And it's likely for those reasons that I went 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:42.740 forward with the paradox of wanting to become 00:24:42.740 --> 00:24:45.660 a teacher, despite the fact that when I was the 00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:48.720 age of a student, I felt so disconnected to other 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.579 kids and frankly didn't like kids. And it's because 00:24:51.579 --> 00:24:54.720 of how I connected to teachers that I went forward 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.940 with this profession. So as a teacher, I've always 00:24:57.940 --> 00:25:00.900 seen myself as someone who was present. And my 00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:03.119 first year students would also attest to the 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.440 fact that I was also willing to offer my classroom 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:08.400 as a safe space to those who may have a need 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:10.500 for it. And I mentioned this on a couple segments, 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:13.460 maybe even yours as well, Megan, that one of 00:25:13.460 --> 00:25:15.220 the things that really got me into trouble as 00:25:15.220 --> 00:25:17.859 a first year teacher was that I thought it was 00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:22.000 my job to keep my students safe, period. I was 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.460 that last resort to keep my students safe. And 00:25:25.460 --> 00:25:30.359 there was nothing beyond me. Because I knew that 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:33.019 the school psychologists would respond differently 00:25:33.019 --> 00:25:36.119 than me in a way that maybe would not get the 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.579 best help for that child in crisis. What I did 00:25:39.579 --> 00:25:42.740 not know was no matter what I felt or how the 00:25:42.740 --> 00:25:45.019 bureaucracy worked, it was only my job to keep 00:25:45.019 --> 00:25:50.859 my students safe, comma, for now. And no matter 00:25:50.859 --> 00:25:54.259 what I saw within the system, I had to abide 00:25:54.259 --> 00:25:57.339 by that and follow that protocol in order to... 00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:00.529 keep my job and succeed in my job the way that 00:26:00.529 --> 00:26:04.369 I was able to. So then, Megan, with that, what 00:26:04.369 --> 00:26:06.589 are some general norms that you can share with 00:26:06.589 --> 00:26:09.109 us about practicing safety within the classroom 00:26:09.109 --> 00:26:12.710 as an educator? You want to start with what are 00:26:12.710 --> 00:26:15.630 your school's policies? But I am not that person 00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:17.750 that's going to tell you, you can never hug a 00:26:17.750 --> 00:26:20.369 student. You can never put your hand on a student 00:26:20.369 --> 00:26:22.549 in a supportive way. It comes back to intention, 00:26:22.789 --> 00:26:24.549 right? Is there a reason for you to do that? 00:26:24.809 --> 00:26:30.039 Is there a pure intention there? So if you have 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:32.619 a student that you really think would benefit 00:26:32.619 --> 00:26:36.039 from having space, like your safe space, your 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:37.940 classroom becomes a safe space during lunch. 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:41.440 My husband actually, he has students that like 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.000 a group of them that like to hang out in the 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.039 choir room or whatever during lunch. And there's 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:47.559 a group of them. It's not just one. But even 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.259 so, if my husband was going to be in a classroom 00:26:51.259 --> 00:26:54.589 with just him and another student. You have to 00:26:54.589 --> 00:26:57.049 make sure that a situation like that is easily 00:26:57.049 --> 00:27:00.930 observable and easily interruptible. And I'm 00:27:00.930 --> 00:27:03.329 stealing this from the Elephant Alliance, which 00:27:03.329 --> 00:27:06.910 is an organization that their whole mission is 00:27:06.910 --> 00:27:11.970 to prevent educator sexual misconduct. And so 00:27:11.970 --> 00:27:15.230 these two women, Mackenzie Bufis and Patty Sampson, 00:27:15.289 --> 00:27:18.430 incredible women that have, I think they're in 00:27:18.430 --> 00:27:20.410 the same camp is that they're not going to tell 00:27:20.410 --> 00:27:22.990 you, you can never, because that. is unrealistic 00:27:22.990 --> 00:27:26.109 in some ways. For some teachers, fine, and I 00:27:26.109 --> 00:27:28.910 respect that. But if you're going to have a student 00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:32.890 in your classroom, you have to be aware of what 00:27:32.890 --> 00:27:35.569 are the optics of that. You want to create space 00:27:35.569 --> 00:27:38.230 between you. Fine, they can be there, but they 00:27:38.230 --> 00:27:41.630 are not sitting at your desk. They're not near 00:27:41.630 --> 00:27:45.609 you. And if you're going to speak to them, make 00:27:45.609 --> 00:27:48.589 sure that you still, even though it's just you 00:27:48.589 --> 00:27:50.589 and that student, you're maintaining professional 00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:55.400 demeanor. So it's have a student in your room, 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.920 but be transparent. Tell people, go down and 00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:01.460 say to your principal, say, hey, I've got this 00:28:01.460 --> 00:28:03.680 student and here's the situation. And I really 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.339 want to be a safe space for them. But I want 00:28:06.339 --> 00:28:09.789 you to know. What's going on? So that if anybody 00:28:09.789 --> 00:28:12.890 comes to you or this is my plan, they're going 00:28:12.890 --> 00:28:15.069 to always sit here. I'm always going to be at 00:28:15.069 --> 00:28:18.470 my desk or whatever. But it comes down to transparency. 00:28:19.049 --> 00:28:21.609 What if you go down to leadership and say, hey, 00:28:21.750 --> 00:28:23.829 the student needs a safe space and they shrug 00:28:23.829 --> 00:28:25.789 their shoulders like it doesn't matter who cares? 00:28:26.349 --> 00:28:29.329 Well, you have to be careful, like you said, 00:28:29.369 --> 00:28:31.730 right, is that you got to know school policy. 00:28:32.410 --> 00:28:35.230 I would start asking questions. I wouldn't just 00:28:35.230 --> 00:28:37.329 leave it at that. You don't want to push and 00:28:37.329 --> 00:28:39.690 push and then create conflict because at some 00:28:39.690 --> 00:28:42.950 point you do have to respect. If your administrator 00:28:42.950 --> 00:28:46.670 is telling you you shouldn't do this and you 00:28:46.670 --> 00:28:49.569 think that it's a reasonable request for whatever 00:28:49.569 --> 00:28:52.289 reason, okay, well then how else can I help that 00:28:52.289 --> 00:28:54.890 student? What resources can I give them? If they 00:28:54.890 --> 00:28:58.720 can't be in my room, okay. If that's the rule. 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.839 But part of that mental health first aid is we 00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:06.349 assess the situation and we provide. support 00:29:06.349 --> 00:29:09.690 and information. So if we can't provide the support 00:29:09.690 --> 00:29:12.650 of our classroom for whatever reason, what can 00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:15.569 we provide as support? What information can we 00:29:15.569 --> 00:29:18.190 give? Maybe there's a number, like a hotline 00:29:18.190 --> 00:29:19.950 or something that they can call and you can say, 00:29:20.009 --> 00:29:22.509 hey, if you want to talk to somebody, there's 00:29:22.509 --> 00:29:24.930 this number, but you have to gauge that. Again, 00:29:25.009 --> 00:29:27.130 does that seem fair to say that you just have 00:29:27.130 --> 00:29:30.049 to find how else to support them? I would not, 00:29:30.049 --> 00:29:32.910 though, recommend just saying to your administrator, 00:29:33.130 --> 00:29:35.650 like leaning into that and going. creating that 00:29:35.650 --> 00:29:37.809 conflict because then what happens is it's going 00:29:37.809 --> 00:29:40.130 to create conflict and then drain you of energy 00:29:40.130 --> 00:29:42.289 that you need to be able to give to other students 00:29:42.289 --> 00:29:45.150 too. If you're going to go to bat for a student, 00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:47.470 you still, what is that like? You can catch more 00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:50.069 flies with honey. If the administrator doesn't 00:29:50.069 --> 00:29:53.069 seem to understand, maybe continue the dialogue 00:29:53.069 --> 00:29:54.869 a little bit or say, hey, could we talk about 00:29:54.869 --> 00:29:58.470 this a little bit more? And if they say no, and 00:29:58.470 --> 00:30:01.890 I know this is so difficult, but you do have 00:30:01.890 --> 00:30:06.339 to respect it. There's something that there's 00:30:06.339 --> 00:30:08.420 like a safety issue that you have to report, 00:30:08.539 --> 00:30:10.700 which, by the way, I learned this from the Elephant 00:30:10.700 --> 00:30:13.279 Alliance as well, that when you look at the hierarchy 00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:17.839 of reporting, where the ball gets dropped is 00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:21.099 at the administration level. Because what they 00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:24.160 do is they start to fear what's going to happen 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:26.299 if this information gets out. And then they go, 00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:28.059 well, we're just going to deal with it in -house. 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:32.299 But you have a responsibility. as a mandatory 00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:35.680 reporter, to report that to an authority, whether 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.619 that's like the Department of Child Services, 00:30:37.859 --> 00:30:41.079 whether that's the police. But you have to do 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:43.839 something. So in that case, if you're going to 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:45.940 an administrator and you're expressing that you 00:30:45.940 --> 00:30:48.460 have a major concern and they're dismissing the 00:30:48.460 --> 00:30:50.980 concern, well, maybe that is a fight you need 00:30:50.980 --> 00:30:53.119 to get into. Because if that administrator is 00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:56.759 doing that to you, who else have they done that 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.859 to? Who else are they ignoring? I mean, that's 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:02.859 a bigger issue, right? And this goes, we have 00:31:02.859 --> 00:31:05.519 an accountability problem in our country. It's 00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.700 just we all have to work together to agree that 00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:12.200 accountability is the way to go. It's not punishment. 00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:15.579 I'm not trying to punish you. But we're so busy 00:31:15.579 --> 00:31:18.000 with being like, we want our children to be successful. 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:20.059 We want to be successful that we're missing that. 00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:22.720 We should really be trying to get our children 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.279 through childhood, teaching them resilience and 00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:28.400 not. putting them into situations where they're 00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.059 going to incur major trauma. You can't always 00:31:31.059 --> 00:31:33.460 do that. But what I'm saying is we're so busy 00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:37.500 wanting our kids to be great achievers that I 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:41.000 think sometimes we can completely forget that 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.960 their mental and emotional health has to come 00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:46.980 first, who they are, so that they don't base 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:51.279 their value on what they do, that they have value 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:54.980 as they are. Which goes back to Maslow's hierarchy 00:31:54.980 --> 00:31:59.630 of needs. And I think the greatest takeaway that 00:31:59.630 --> 00:32:02.569 we can gain from that is just knowing that there's 00:32:02.569 --> 00:32:04.589 ways that we can allow and include all students 00:32:04.589 --> 00:32:08.009 to follow through with the idea of safety and 00:32:08.009 --> 00:32:10.009 what that means. And as educators, we have a 00:32:10.009 --> 00:32:12.869 responsibility to practice that. And something 00:32:12.869 --> 00:32:14.690 else that I would advise other educators to do 00:32:14.690 --> 00:32:16.849 is that if you have an administration that is 00:32:16.849 --> 00:32:19.049 resistant to assisting and maybe dropping the 00:32:19.049 --> 00:32:22.970 ball on their level, what I learned to do at 00:32:22.970 --> 00:32:25.269 one point is to form a village of colleagues. 00:32:25.670 --> 00:32:28.309 If I saw that there is a student in crisis, but 00:32:28.309 --> 00:32:31.009 I knew that there were other faculty who were 00:32:31.009 --> 00:32:34.329 aware of the student's needs and the student 00:32:34.329 --> 00:32:36.450 got along well with those faculty members, I 00:32:36.450 --> 00:32:38.269 would let them know what my observations were. 00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:40.789 Hey, I'm aware that the student is struggling 00:32:40.789 --> 00:32:43.210 with A, B, and C. I think it's between just my 00:32:43.210 --> 00:32:44.789 own knowledge, so please keep it confidential. 00:32:45.109 --> 00:32:47.930 But if you could be another pair of eyes and 00:32:47.930 --> 00:32:51.009 just a watchdog for the student, please do so. 00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:53.880 If I'm her second period and if you're her fourth 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:56.200 period, check in on her at that point of the 00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:58.680 day. Hey, how are you feeling? Do you have a 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:00.480 safe space to go for lunch other than, let's 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.400 say, the bathroom? Sixth period. Okay, you're 00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:05.519 the sixth period teacher. Do you mind checking 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.440 on her before the bell rings and is after school? 00:33:07.539 --> 00:33:10.099 Make sure that she has a safe space to go after 00:33:10.099 --> 00:33:12.980 school before she heads home. Just having other 00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:17.440 watchdogs during the day to form a village, I 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:20.359 find to be safer than leaving one teacher accountable. 00:33:20.970 --> 00:33:25.890 for a student my therapist will say to me what 00:33:25.890 --> 00:33:29.009 are your options in this situation and you just 00:33:29.009 --> 00:33:31.910 offered up a great option right it may be helpful 00:33:31.910 --> 00:33:34.990 to write out what are my options again and i'll 00:33:34.990 --> 00:33:39.470 go back to the administrator that you start here 00:33:39.470 --> 00:33:42.690 here are my options and then if they ignore here 00:33:42.690 --> 00:33:45.750 i'm going to this level i'm going to go to this 00:33:45.750 --> 00:33:48.710 level and this may be a really hard pill to swallow 00:33:49.579 --> 00:33:54.359 But sometimes it will cost you your job. Yeah. 00:33:54.700 --> 00:34:01.119 And that doesn't make what you did wrong. Because 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:04.720 if you know that you were doing the right thing, 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:08.699 if you were in the face of injustice, you suffered. 00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:12.159 When you set fear aside and you only think about, 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.820 if I wasn't afraid, what would I do? And you 00:34:15.820 --> 00:34:18.880 come from a place of love. and caring for people, 00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:23.960 if you suffer for that, that's just part of it. 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:28.260 It is, and it is what it is, and that becomes 00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:31.460 a form of justice through the injustice. Right. 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:35.579 Well, and you still, you may leave that environment, 00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:38.960 but you will have planted a seed in that environment, 00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:42.559 even if nobody's listening and this whole thing 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.760 happens, you lose your job. It doesn't mean that 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.519 you haven't made a difference. And that impact 00:34:48.519 --> 00:34:51.820 years down the road when another teacher maybe 00:34:51.820 --> 00:34:55.199 has the same issue and they think back to the 00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:57.239 other teacher that was let go or for whatever 00:34:57.239 --> 00:34:59.019 reason, and they're like, we need to do this 00:34:59.019 --> 00:35:02.659 differently this time. So you never know how 00:35:02.659 --> 00:35:05.679 that can affect you. And of course. It is your 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.199 choice. In the end, it is always your decision 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:10.699 how you want to deal with things. I just want 00:35:10.699 --> 00:35:13.980 people to know that they aren't alone if by trying 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:18.280 to do the right thing, they suffer greatly because 00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:23.340 of it. And if and when you do, to be able to 00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:26.960 pick yourself up knowing that you did the best 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:29.119 that you could, that you can sleep at night. 00:35:29.739 --> 00:35:32.260 You can be at peace with yourself because you 00:35:32.260 --> 00:35:35.420 did right by you and your values. And then you 00:35:35.420 --> 00:35:38.500 try to find whatever faith you can, whether that's 00:35:38.500 --> 00:35:41.920 in God or whatever, the universe, any way you 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:43.880 want to say that. And you hold on to that and 00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:46.659 you say, I had a purpose in that situation and 00:35:46.659 --> 00:35:48.739 now I'm in a new situation and now I'm going 00:35:48.739 --> 00:35:52.820 to look for what next. And try to look back on 00:35:52.820 --> 00:35:56.300 that other chapter. with what gratitude you can 00:35:56.300 --> 00:35:58.780 and what lessons you can carry through with you. 00:35:59.139 --> 00:36:02.099 But it's okay. The worst thing you may think, 00:36:02.139 --> 00:36:03.519 I'll lose my job. That's the worst thing that 00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:06.559 could happen. And it may, you may feel like that 00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:09.260 was the worst thing and it may happen, but I'll 00:36:09.260 --> 00:36:10.860 tell you what, you're going to wake up the next 00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:13.019 morning and you're going to keep going. And you 00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:16.320 have no idea how your life may unfold in this 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.030 even more incredible way. It reminds me of one 00:36:20.030 --> 00:36:21.869 of my favorite Hollywood movies on teachers, 00:36:22.010 --> 00:36:25.550 Dead Poets Society, where we have Robin Williams 00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:27.829 as John Keating, who's trying to do the right 00:36:27.829 --> 00:36:30.170 thing as a teacher by letting his students think 00:36:30.170 --> 00:36:33.610 freely, not really thinking against the system, 00:36:33.670 --> 00:36:36.909 but just being a free thinker. And one of his 00:36:36.909 --> 00:36:40.190 students who comes into combat with his parents 00:36:40.190 --> 00:36:42.489 because of his thinking, he wants to be an actor. 00:36:42.550 --> 00:36:44.369 And his parents said, no, you will become a doctor. 00:36:44.429 --> 00:36:47.050 You will do ABC. And he says, well, I'm thinking 00:36:47.050 --> 00:36:50.139 freely. I just. I want to be an actor. That causes 00:36:50.139 --> 00:36:52.179 conflict, which ends in the student losing his 00:36:52.179 --> 00:36:55.039 life by suicide. And unfortunately, the teacher 00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.159 is to blame and Keating is ousted. And I made 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.400 a verb out of that to say, oh, that person got 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:05.579 Keating. But you see, when he leaves his classroom, 00:37:05.780 --> 00:37:09.519 the amount of other students that he has influenced 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:12.260 in his time was incredible. He told them on their 00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:15.199 first day of class, call me. your captain, oh, 00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:18.000 captain, my captain, call me captain. And as 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.300 an ode to his time at Welton Academy, the students 00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:23.900 stand on their desks and salute their captain 00:37:23.900 --> 00:37:27.619 as he walks into, the way the camera has it, 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:29.239 he's walking out into the light. So it's like 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.420 he's finding a happy beginning somewhere else. 00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:34.380 But in doing so, he's also touched the lives 00:37:34.380 --> 00:37:36.619 of many students in his building. So to educators 00:37:36.619 --> 00:37:39.039 everywhere who may have had those bureaucratic 00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:42.320 incidents, just trust your intuition that you 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:45.760 did the right thing at that time. And nothing 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:48.699 is all good or all bad. Right. And we do not 00:37:48.699 --> 00:37:51.039 have control over those things. That is such, 00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:53.139 it is sad, isn't it? I'm just glad you brought 00:37:53.139 --> 00:37:56.460 that up because that is a tragic thing, right? 00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:59.519 Is that by freeing that student and making him 00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.400 feel like he could think freely and he could 00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:03.480 be something else because he was trapped. He 00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.139 wasn't living, right? I sort of call these things 00:38:06.139 --> 00:38:09.300 like a ticking time bomb where at some point 00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:13.179 something is going to happen. If it wasn't then. 00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:16.659 It could have been later. Yeah. But just because, 00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:19.019 again, not everything is all good or all bad. 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.619 Think about your intention. And did it come from 00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:25.559 a place of love? All you can do is do the best 00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:28.900 that you can do. And if you see injustice, stand 00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:32.199 up and speak out about it. And using this podcast 00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:34.340 is a platform to speak out about that. In addition 00:38:34.340 --> 00:38:38.059 to a 300 -page dissertation. So there's that. 00:38:39.579 --> 00:38:42.519 Love it. Love it. So Megan, I wanted to come 00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:44.760 to a conclusion for our conversation asking you 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:48.400 to talk to us about dissonance. What is it and 00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:52.260 why? And what from this conversation have we 00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:54.079 not yet touched on that we still want our listeners 00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:58.019 to know? I started writing dissonance during 00:38:58.019 --> 00:39:01.519 a crisis in my life. I was in the darkest season 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:05.219 of my life. I hope I never have a darker season 00:39:05.219 --> 00:39:09.780 than this. And I wrote it as a way to save myself. 00:39:10.989 --> 00:39:15.369 And through helping other people, my hope was 00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:19.650 that by sharing my story, that by helping other 00:39:19.650 --> 00:39:23.170 people who I knew were going through similar 00:39:23.170 --> 00:39:27.570 things, that was making me better. That was healing 00:39:27.570 --> 00:39:30.889 me. My book Dissonance has themes of grooming 00:39:30.889 --> 00:39:34.090 and educator sexual assault and abuse because 00:39:34.090 --> 00:39:36.769 I was groomed by my high school band director. 00:39:37.150 --> 00:39:40.010 And then that turned into a sexual relationship. 00:39:40.210 --> 00:39:43.690 And when I look back on the whole thing, I'm 00:39:43.690 --> 00:39:47.250 sure that the grooming began before then. And 00:39:47.250 --> 00:39:52.130 the story begins in April of 2019 when I found 00:39:52.130 --> 00:39:53.909 out that my high school band director had been 00:39:53.909 --> 00:39:57.309 arrested. And it really changed the trajectory 00:39:57.309 --> 00:40:00.570 of my life. It was very traumatic. I was 33 years 00:40:00.570 --> 00:40:03.090 old at the time. I'd been married for about 10 00:40:03.090 --> 00:40:06.789 years. I had two young boys. And I thought I 00:40:06.789 --> 00:40:09.530 had life figured out pretty good. New job, new 00:40:09.530 --> 00:40:12.710 home, things are going really well. And in an 00:40:12.710 --> 00:40:15.809 instant, my whole life just turned upside down. 00:40:16.030 --> 00:40:18.929 And so I don't need to get in too much into the 00:40:18.929 --> 00:40:21.530 weeds of this because there's so much to this 00:40:21.530 --> 00:40:24.860 story. So many different things about it. But 00:40:24.860 --> 00:40:29.500 it was my way of piecing together my past and 00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:34.480 how my past led to what ended up happening in 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:38.360 my adulthood, how my young life was impacting 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:41.039 my adulthood, even in ways that I didn't even 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:44.239 know. And the thing that I'm really proud of 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:46.320 it, I just want to say, and you know this too, 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:47.960 Joey, right? When you think about your dissertation, 00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:51.630 I mean... you have worked your butt off to do 00:40:51.630 --> 00:40:54.269 it, to get it done. And it is just, I poured 00:40:54.269 --> 00:40:57.369 everything I had into that. I gave up so much 00:40:57.369 --> 00:41:00.750 time from my family and they gave it to me willingly 00:41:00.750 --> 00:41:04.250 because it was what I needed. My husband was 00:41:04.250 --> 00:41:06.889 so supportive through this. And actually he came 00:41:06.889 --> 00:41:09.530 up with the title of the book because I told 00:41:09.530 --> 00:41:12.050 him at some point, I said, okay, I know the book. 00:41:12.070 --> 00:41:14.929 I want it to be one word. And I want it to be 00:41:14.929 --> 00:41:18.190 a word that has meaning in both psychology and 00:41:18.190 --> 00:41:22.219 music. because I was dealing with both of those 00:41:22.219 --> 00:41:24.139 things. You've got the music teacher aspect, 00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:27.639 but also this mental health issue. And one day 00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:29.460 my husband said, I've got it. I know what your 00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:30.960 book's going to be called. It's going to be called 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.539 Dissonance. And I said, you are a genius. That 00:41:33.539 --> 00:41:37.820 is awesome. So I'm very proud of it. And I'm 00:41:37.820 --> 00:41:40.440 so touched by the conversations I've had with 00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:42.639 people who have read the book and have come to 00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:44.920 me and shared their own stories or just connected 00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:48.380 with me in some way. And it is a dual timeline 00:41:48.380 --> 00:41:52.820 structure. So that means that it is constantly 00:41:52.820 --> 00:41:56.139 or every chapter it is alternating between the 00:41:56.139 --> 00:41:59.320 present and the past. So you are getting an opportunity 00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:03.079 to see how what happened in the past is now affecting 00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:05.400 the future and how all those things piece together. 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.519 And I hope that... it inspires people to look 00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:10.659 at their own life in the same way. Back to what 00:42:10.659 --> 00:42:12.539 you were saying earlier about bringing trauma 00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:15.940 into the classroom. How do we not let that happen? 00:42:16.699 --> 00:42:21.059 I encourage anyone to go back and don't be afraid 00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:23.639 to look at your past with honesty and compassion 00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:26.800 and to see how what's happened in your childhood 00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:30.760 and not to blame. You can say, yes, that's the 00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:33.769 reason that I feel this way. But also, if you're 00:42:33.769 --> 00:42:35.690 talking about a parent, yes, my parent acted 00:42:35.690 --> 00:42:37.650 this way. I can still love them. They did the 00:42:37.650 --> 00:42:40.070 best that they could at the time. Or maybe they 00:42:40.070 --> 00:42:41.909 didn't. And I'm going to deal with that. But 00:42:41.909 --> 00:42:43.409 either way, you're dealing with it. You're not 00:42:43.409 --> 00:42:45.889 ignoring it and avoiding it. I could go on and 00:42:45.889 --> 00:42:47.530 on about the book. I just want people to buy 00:42:47.530 --> 00:42:50.650 it and experience it. And so why do you think 00:42:50.650 --> 00:42:53.769 people should read this book? Thank you so much 00:42:53.769 --> 00:42:54.929 for asking that, Megan. I was actually going 00:42:54.929 --> 00:42:57.489 to offer that as a comment as well. Dissonance 00:42:57.489 --> 00:42:59.230 is going to stick with me for quite some time 00:42:59.230 --> 00:43:04.280 because it's... enabling me to reflect on my 00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:08.139 opening practices as an educator who, again, 00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:11.400 took on that role as a therapist and keeping 00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:15.260 students safe. Again, not safe, comma, for now, 00:43:15.380 --> 00:43:18.619 but just thinking I was keeping them safe, period. 00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:24.400 And reading Dissonance allowed me to transparently 00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:28.579 acknowledge the, I'm going to use a word that 00:43:28.579 --> 00:43:32.420 I think best fits it, It allowed me to think 00:43:32.420 --> 00:43:35.260 about the threat that it looks to a leadership 00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:38.900 team when you have one educator who is trying 00:43:38.900 --> 00:43:42.820 to behave in a way that they feel is going to 00:43:42.820 --> 00:43:45.679 protect other students around them and what that 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:51.760 means when they are moving forward with their 00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:56.360 own pedagogy and their own styles in a way that 00:43:56.360 --> 00:44:02.300 may go outside the box that other teachers may 00:44:02.300 --> 00:44:05.380 be willing to handle and carry. That could even 00:44:05.380 --> 00:44:07.800 be something as, honestly, my first trade teaching, 00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:10.019 I wouldn't mind writing back to an email at 4 00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:13.880 a .m. If a parent wrote me at 3 .58, I was on. 00:44:14.300 --> 00:44:17.599 And I write them back by 4. And it taught me, 00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:19.480 yeah, that's how bad my sleep cycle was. And 00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:21.599 I go to bed and wake up at 6 .30 and believe 00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:25.570 I could do it again the next day. And it... made 00:44:25.570 --> 00:44:27.949 me reflect and think about certain behaviors 00:44:27.949 --> 00:44:34.070 that I was told to correct and why it was important 00:44:34.070 --> 00:44:37.190 for me to do so instead of thinking, well, you 00:44:37.190 --> 00:44:40.030 know, this is my routine and this is what gets 00:44:40.030 --> 00:44:42.769 me to and from work. So I should stick with this. 00:44:43.130 --> 00:44:45.230 And it taught me what it really meant to be a 00:44:45.230 --> 00:44:50.130 safe educator. Yeah, you do get to hear my teenage 00:44:50.130 --> 00:44:52.510 self, my thoughts from my teenage perspective. 00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:54.750 And I think it does sort of open that door for, 00:44:54.809 --> 00:44:57.210 oh, my gosh, teenagers can think this way about 00:44:57.210 --> 00:44:59.949 this. Well, yes, we can. You know, yes, we can. 00:45:00.030 --> 00:45:01.909 So thank you for that awesome endorsement of 00:45:01.909 --> 00:45:04.489 my book. No, highly endorsed. And as first opening 00:45:04.489 --> 00:45:07.050 your teachers as well, as you start to become 00:45:07.050 --> 00:45:09.090 seasoned, of course, our practices are always 00:45:09.090 --> 00:45:10.690 adjusting. And I believe it's true when they 00:45:10.690 --> 00:45:12.110 say you don't really have it figured out till 00:45:12.110 --> 00:45:15.909 year three. And it's almost like. I'm not a parent, 00:45:15.969 --> 00:45:17.809 but I would imagine in being a parent, nothing 00:45:17.809 --> 00:45:21.530 comes with a manual. And I think what Dissonance 00:45:21.530 --> 00:45:24.190 has reminded me is that we need to be fluid in 00:45:24.190 --> 00:45:27.730 our practices as educators and accept what does 00:45:27.730 --> 00:45:30.389 and what does not work and choose the practices 00:45:30.389 --> 00:45:34.710 that will keep us protected as educators in order 00:45:34.710 --> 00:45:37.610 to ensure our students are safe, comma, for now. 00:45:37.730 --> 00:45:40.429 That's my endorsement on Dissonance. Megan, do 00:45:40.429 --> 00:45:41.769 you have any final thoughts that you wanted to 00:45:41.769 --> 00:45:46.289 share with our listeners for today? I just want 00:45:46.289 --> 00:45:51.670 to say that it's okay to not be perfect. It's 00:45:51.670 --> 00:45:54.869 the wanting to be better, right? So we're not 00:45:54.869 --> 00:45:57.349 going to be perfect, but it is that desire to 00:45:57.349 --> 00:46:00.369 grow and to learn and to also be able to forgive 00:46:00.369 --> 00:46:04.670 yourself when it's not perfect. And I just so 00:46:04.670 --> 00:46:06.949 thankful for the work you're doing, Joey. It's 00:46:06.949 --> 00:46:10.230 so great. And I feel very honored to have had 00:46:10.230 --> 00:46:12.610 a chance to speak on this platform. So thank 00:46:12.610 --> 00:46:15.429 you. My pleasure. Thank you so much, Megan. And 00:46:15.429 --> 00:46:18.090 to echo Megan's sentiment, I definitely would 00:46:18.090 --> 00:46:21.190 love to see our viewers have a discussion with 00:46:21.190 --> 00:46:23.190 us about Dissidence when you have a chance to 00:46:23.190 --> 00:46:25.250 read it in our show notes. Megan is transparent. 00:46:25.469 --> 00:46:27.650 She shares her soul with you through her text. 00:46:27.750 --> 00:46:29.489 And I definitely feel like I'm like a part of 00:46:29.489 --> 00:46:31.289 her family after reading it because I know all 00:46:31.289 --> 00:46:33.750 her different members. And I think one takeaway 00:46:33.750 --> 00:46:36.530 that I've also gained as an educator from reading 00:46:36.530 --> 00:46:40.920 the text is that We need to try to keep our students 00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:44.260 protected, but we also need to forgive ourselves 00:46:44.260 --> 00:46:47.619 for what we don't know and what we can't know 00:46:47.619 --> 00:46:53.239 and still allow ourselves to have resilience 00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:57.800 as classroom teachers despite the circumstances 00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:02.480 we deal with every day. So, Megan, I wanted to, 00:47:02.500 --> 00:47:04.460 again, thank you for sharing your soul with us 00:47:04.460 --> 00:47:06.400 and for reminding us that classrooms aren't sealed 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.260 off spaces. We carry what we carry, whether we 00:47:09.260 --> 00:47:11.539 say it out loud or not. And if you do want to 00:47:11.539 --> 00:47:13.739 dive deeper, again, Dissidence is out there and 00:47:13.739 --> 00:47:15.719 it's a powerful read. So take care of yourselves 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:17.780 and we'll see you all next time on the podcast. 00:47:19.059 --> 00:47:21.360 Thank you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.380 Healing and Education podcast. If today's episode 00:47:24.380 --> 00:47:27.059 inspired you or made you think differently, I'd 00:47:27.059 --> 00:47:29.400 love to hear from you. Drop a comment or review 00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:32.260 wherever you listen to podcasts and stay connected 00:47:32.260 --> 00:47:34.800 with us on the At Classroom Narratives podcast 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:38.079 over Instagram and Facebook. Remember, together 00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:41.300 we can transform our scars into stars in education, 00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:43.980 one conversation at a time.