WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.459 Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing In 00:00:02.459 --> 00:00:04.919 Education podcast, the space where education 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:09.039 meets resilience. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:11.419 each episode, we dive deep into the personal 00:00:11.419 --> 00:00:15.099 stories of educators, students, leaders, and 00:00:15.099 --> 00:00:18.100 frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities 00:00:18.100 --> 00:00:21.280 within modern education. Whether you're just 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:23.899 starting your teaching journey, Or are we seasoned 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:26.280 professionals looking for inspiration, we'll 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:29.079 explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:31.879 burnout, and build trauma -informed communities 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:35.000 within our schools. Now, let's take a seat at 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.820 the front of the classroom as we get started. 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:39.740 How's it going, everyone? Welcome to today's 00:00:39.740 --> 00:00:41.539 episode of the Classroom Narratives podcast. 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:44.719 This is Dr. Joey Weisler, and I'm so privileged 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:47.979 to be joined by Supriya Budhiraja, all the way 00:00:47.979 --> 00:00:49.939 from India, to talk to us about international 00:00:49.939 --> 00:00:53.600 perspectives on education. It is such a privilege 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:55.780 to have Supriya join me on the show because we're 00:00:55.780 --> 00:00:57.600 going to have a really powerful discussion today 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.179 to see some of the core similarities and differences 00:01:00.179 --> 00:01:03.119 between how education works through a social 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.599 and emotional learning perspective, how trauma 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:07.920 -informed education works, and really trying 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:11.480 to dissect this system and all of its parts throughout 00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:14.579 our entire globe. So Supriya, welcome to the 00:01:14.579 --> 00:01:16.799 conversation and thank you for helping us broaden 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.159 our perspectives about what is truly possible 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:21.719 within education. So glad you're here with us. 00:01:22.140 --> 00:01:24.819 Thank you so much, Joey. It's an honor to be 00:01:24.819 --> 00:01:28.000 in this show. I'm so glad we found each other. 00:01:28.219 --> 00:01:31.439 And so Supriya, I wanted to ask, again, because 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:34.879 most of our listeners are based in America, many 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.400 of our educators are grappling with how to make 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:40.540 education more student -centered, teaching to 00:01:40.540 --> 00:01:43.400 the heart over the brain, the heart in terms 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.060 of getting to their emotions versus the brain 00:01:46.060 --> 00:01:48.980 where we just try and feed them logic. This term 00:01:48.980 --> 00:01:52.959 of social and emotional learning has become a 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:56.200 buzz, if you will, here in America. And I'm wondering, 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.000 in India, how does trauma -informed learning 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:03.439 shape our classrooms and what can Americans gain 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:06.000 from the perspective that you have on that so 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.520 I've been a Teach-For-India fellow and during 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:11.620 our trainings we've been in touch with fellows 00:02:11.620 --> 00:02:14.439 from Teach-For-America and i believe our stories 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.000 have been same of getting the students in the 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:19.240 classroom building that psychological safety 00:02:20.110 --> 00:02:23.050 But over here in India, the only difference is 00:02:23.050 --> 00:02:25.810 that there are first generation students coming 00:02:25.810 --> 00:02:29.030 in the classroom. And over here, the parents 00:02:29.030 --> 00:02:31.250 are allowed to hit the children. So there are 00:02:31.250 --> 00:02:34.449 a lot of things that happen. The similarity over 00:02:34.449 --> 00:02:36.389 here with the fellows, what I hear the story 00:02:36.389 --> 00:02:40.650 from there and here, falls almost the same. And 00:02:40.650 --> 00:02:43.030 the only thing that the parents look upon is 00:02:43.030 --> 00:02:45.150 that their child is going regular to the school, 00:02:45.289 --> 00:02:49.090 not missing out. So sometimes life is so harsh. 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:51.780 They have to earn their bread, like their daily 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:54.400 wage earners. And for that, sometimes they need the 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:56.599 help of their children, which as a consequence, 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.439 they miss the school. And at the end, literacy 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:02.379 goes nowhere. Children missing the school. Or 00:03:02.379 --> 00:03:03.740 when they're coming to school, either they're 00:03:03.740 --> 00:03:07.139 beaten up or they're burned. One of my most memorable 00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:10.300 experiences is one of my child coming to the 00:03:10.300 --> 00:03:13.800 school. She was all burned. Her hands were burned. 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:15.840 Her face was burned. Something had happened back 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:19.870 home. And the reason that I got to know was that 00:03:19.870 --> 00:03:23.469 she did not want to come to school. So her parents, 00:03:23.710 --> 00:03:25.789 her specifically her mother, because she was 00:03:25.789 --> 00:03:29.330 a single parent, she had burnt her hand and her 00:03:29.330 --> 00:03:32.729 face also. And on my asking, because everything 00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:36.789 was just coming out. So it was all swollen and 00:03:36.789 --> 00:03:40.669 it required medical attention. So when I asked 00:03:40.669 --> 00:03:42.530 her, let's go back home. We're going to visit 00:03:42.530 --> 00:03:45.169 the doctor. She was scared. And the other students 00:03:45.169 --> 00:03:48.340 came up as that. We can't go back home. If we 00:03:48.340 --> 00:03:50.599 go back home, we'll be beaten up more. And so 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:52.520 is in the school. We are not accepted in the 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:54.819 classroom. We can't sit in the classroom. They 00:03:54.819 --> 00:03:57.360 never ask whether we are feeling at ease or not. 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:00.560 So I took her to the medical center, the hospital 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.860 nearby, got her treated. And that is where I 00:04:03.860 --> 00:04:07.319 realized that the importance of having that safety 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:09.719 in the classroom, if they're not getting anywhere, 00:04:09.979 --> 00:04:12.900 what is the role a teacher plays in the life 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:16.329 of the child. And that is where my journey actually 00:04:16.329 --> 00:04:19.370 begin as a teacher trainer, as someone who want 00:04:19.370 --> 00:04:22.389 to work in this sector and have student voices 00:04:22.389 --> 00:04:26.189 out in my country, in the classrooms, that student 00:04:26.189 --> 00:04:29.069 have their voice, they have their, and the classrooms 00:04:29.069 --> 00:04:31.910 are more student centric than the teacher being 00:04:31.910 --> 00:04:35.410 the dictator. So the school really is that safe 00:04:35.410 --> 00:04:39.029 space for the students then. Yes, it is. So right 00:04:39.029 --> 00:04:42.170 now we struggle with poverty. Though we are developing, 00:04:42.329 --> 00:04:45.689 we have grown a lot. And still this poverty is 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:50.110 still a concern. So being the bread earner, being 00:04:50.110 --> 00:04:52.389 illiterate, and they want their children to be 00:04:52.389 --> 00:04:55.550 in the school, and children not listening, getting 00:04:55.550 --> 00:04:59.410 into drugs or something, or maybe just to earn 00:04:59.410 --> 00:05:02.050 a living, getting into a wrong side, like I would 00:05:02.050 --> 00:05:04.529 say, there are a lot of jobs that you don't want 00:05:04.529 --> 00:05:07.470 your children to do it, right? And that is where 00:05:07.470 --> 00:05:11.050 the barrier comes. That is where the parents 00:05:11.050 --> 00:05:14.189 become really strict and they want their child 00:05:14.189 --> 00:05:17.750 to listen to them. But for a child at that time, 00:05:17.829 --> 00:05:20.689 knowing their circumstances, wants to break through, 00:05:20.790 --> 00:05:25.069 wants to help. And that is where this drift happened. 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:27.290 That is where this confusion happened. That is 00:05:27.290 --> 00:05:31.319 where this whole argument started. And they end 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:33.680 up, rather than explaining and letting the child 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:36.579 know, they end up hitting out of frustration. 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:39.560 Because parents are frustrated, they need to 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:42.000 earn a living. The child is frustrated that, 'I 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:44.240 want to help' and, 'I want to be there' and 'I want 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:47.019 to get out of this vicious cycle of poverty.' 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:50.779 But without realizing that education is the key. 00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:54.860 It is really important they don't realize. So that 00:05:54.860 --> 00:05:57.220 is where we build up in the classroom to make 00:05:57.220 --> 00:05:59.519 them understand that education is the only key 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:02.519 that will get you out of every trouble. That 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:05.139 is where we started our learning circle. That 00:06:05.139 --> 00:06:07.839 is where when we sat down and spoke about a lot 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:11.360 of things and children actually open up. When 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:14.720 they were allowed in the classroom to sit at 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:17.560 the back, not to study, we were okay with that. 00:06:18.089 --> 00:06:20.709 because language was also a barrier. Everyone 00:06:20.709 --> 00:06:24.670 over here wants English to be their known language 00:06:24.670 --> 00:06:28.689 so that they can go around for the job. Now comes 00:06:28.689 --> 00:06:31.829 over here the scene of empathy that actually focuses 00:06:31.829 --> 00:06:34.709 on developing the skill, the vocational skill. 00:06:34.870 --> 00:06:37.149 Earlier our education was majorly theatrical, 00:06:37.430 --> 00:06:39.949 not actually polishing the skills out of the 00:06:39.949 --> 00:06:42.930 children. This became a support system where 00:06:42.930 --> 00:06:46.149 if they are to have that subject of their own 00:06:46.149 --> 00:06:48.810 choice. Maybe they're not good with business 00:06:48.810 --> 00:06:51.370 studies, but they're good in entrepreneurship. 00:06:51.670 --> 00:06:54.829 Maybe they're not good with computer science, 00:06:55.050 --> 00:06:58.149 but they're good with IT. So maximum children drop 00:06:58.149 --> 00:07:01.550 out after grade nine. So till grade eight, we have 00:07:01.550 --> 00:07:04.449 compulsory education over here. So children are 00:07:04.449 --> 00:07:06.470 given free mid day meals so that they come to 00:07:06.470 --> 00:07:11.389 school. And after that, half of 00:07:11.389 --> 00:07:14.110 the strength vanishes. So we have to actually 00:07:14.110 --> 00:07:16.209 go in the communities and catch them to come 00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:19.500 back to the classroom. and continue their studies. 00:07:19.779 --> 00:07:22.720 These different vocational courses come in place 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:25.779 and this helps them to carry on their passion 00:07:25.779 --> 00:07:28.300 and understand that they can do something. That's 00:07:28.300 --> 00:07:30.139 an incredible anecdote. Thank you for sharing 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:32.220 all of that to start with. And you're making 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:34.060 me think about what does classroom discipline 00:07:34.060 --> 00:07:36.839 look like? So we have a proper teacher training 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:39.759 things and the classroom management, classroom 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.610 culture, classroom routines. Each and every training 00:07:42.610 --> 00:07:45.649 is done. But when it comes to the classrooms 00:07:45.649 --> 00:07:47.689 that are in one classroom, there are more than 00:07:47.689 --> 00:07:51.370 60 children in one classroom. And it's like 60 00:07:51.370 --> 00:07:54.610 to 1 is the ratio. That's what I'm talking about 00:07:54.610 --> 00:07:57.230 when we move on to the underprivileged school. 00:07:57.410 --> 00:08:00.009 But whereas in private sector, we do have that 00:08:00.009 --> 00:08:03.649 bandwidth where 30 to 1 or 25 to 1 is the ratio. 00:08:04.230 --> 00:08:06.709 Those are the parents who have the capacity to 00:08:06.709 --> 00:08:10.019 pay. And the privileged ones have it. But then 00:08:10.019 --> 00:08:12.480 again, the struggle remains the same. When you 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:14.540 enter the classroom, what kind of culture are 00:08:14.540 --> 00:08:17.680 you building? What is the psychological safety 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:21.420 you are building? So we create those small, we 00:08:21.420 --> 00:08:24.779 call it learning circles, where we sit and every 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:27.540 day we have a conversation for around 10 minutes, 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:30.980 knowing how the day looked like, what were the 00:08:30.980 --> 00:08:33.240 things. And even sometimes we also share our 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.340 own fears. our own traumas, that builds the trust. 00:08:38.379 --> 00:08:40.659 What did you gain from your studies and your 00:08:40.659 --> 00:08:42.980 research about how to continue supporting and 00:08:42.980 --> 00:08:45.919 improving student conditions? My grandparents 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:49.879 were daily wage earners. So my grandma was the 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:52.919 domestic helper, going out to the teachers' houses, 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.440 washing their utensils, doing their work, making 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.659 sure that her children get a chance to study 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:00.919 and they're being taken care of. The teacher 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:04.740 treats them well. So from there, my father, I've 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:07.480 seen my father doing a lot and taking care of 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.299 his siblings Being the youngest one, yet he was 00:09:10.299 --> 00:09:13.299 the strongest one who supported each and every 00:09:13.299 --> 00:09:16.659 sibling. And he gave everything to us. So we 00:09:16.659 --> 00:09:20.279 went to a proper school. We had all the luxuries, 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:24.200 I would say. And even traveling around the world, 00:09:24.259 --> 00:09:26.980 the kind of exposure he gave us. But at the same 00:09:26.980 --> 00:09:30.629 time, he made us. go back to our root so whenever 00:09:30.629 --> 00:09:32.950 we used to go back to our village so over there 00:09:32.950 --> 00:09:35.250 there's a small school and I found myself always 00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:39.470 being there and realizing the value of education 00:09:39.470 --> 00:09:43.850 that that is where I started my journey that 00:09:43.850 --> 00:09:46.789 is where I realized and another thing that I 00:09:46.789 --> 00:09:50.250 would definitely say is as I said that it's the 00:09:50.250 --> 00:09:53.570 educator who builds in the classroom culture 00:09:53.570 --> 00:09:56.610 so I've been judged a lot there have been a lot 00:09:56.610 --> 00:10:00.019 of times I've not been heard So there was only 00:10:00.019 --> 00:10:02.840 one teacher I still remember. She was always 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:06.139 on my support. One teacher putting faith in me 00:10:06.139 --> 00:10:09.379 to what I'm saying. And I felt being heard. That 00:10:09.379 --> 00:10:12.960 is where I felt that classroom needs need these 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:15.600 kind of teachers. And then during my training, 00:10:15.700 --> 00:10:19.860 I heard Rita Pearson. Every child needs that 00:10:19.860 --> 00:10:23.740 one champion that hit me so hard. It took me 00:10:23.740 --> 00:10:26.539 back to the journey. And that is where I was 00:10:26.539 --> 00:10:30.059 like, OK. I'll make sure that champion stays 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:33.279 in the class and that each child deserves that 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:36.299 champion. I think Rita Pearson has to be the 00:10:36.299 --> 00:10:40.120 face of every new teacher program. I definitely, 00:10:40.179 --> 00:10:43.019 so that's the first video that I play when I 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:46.820 just enter my training, enter with my team. That's 00:10:46.820 --> 00:10:49.039 the first thing I play and I want to see how 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:50.940 they feel because it just gives you goosebumps. 00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:53.820 It hits you so hard inside and get back to your 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:57.179 story that did you have that champion? That's 00:10:57.179 --> 00:10:59.919 a bigger question that even as an educator, we 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:02.440 struggle. Did we have that champion? Was there 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:05.460 any one person we had that we could really think 00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:08.779 of or rely on? That is where you hit that emotional 00:11:08.779 --> 00:11:11.059 part. And that is where they start thinking. 00:11:11.259 --> 00:11:14.399 And I feel like most new teachers go into education, 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.340 like you said, Supriya, because they've had that 00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:20.620 champion. And deep down, despite all the challenges 00:11:20.620 --> 00:11:23.960 that we face, we know we can have the potential 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.850 to become. like that champion because they were 00:11:26.850 --> 00:11:29.309 able to do it for us so it's like we're paying 00:11:29.309 --> 00:11:32.269 it forward Actually, I would have loved it if 00:11:32.269 --> 00:11:34.470 what you're saying would have been 100 % true. 00:11:34.830 --> 00:11:38.009 But what I see over here in my country, so the 00:11:38.009 --> 00:11:40.529 job of teacher is not valued. It's considered 00:11:40.529 --> 00:11:42.870 like, okay, for a girl, oh, you're going to get 00:11:42.870 --> 00:11:44.549 married. You need to, you know, take care of 00:11:44.549 --> 00:11:46.690 your family and balance things out. So teaching 00:11:46.690 --> 00:11:49.409 is the best profession. Even though if she wants 00:11:49.409 --> 00:11:51.330 to become a doctor, even if she wants to become 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:53.789 a pilot, even if she wants to be in a corporate, 00:11:54.070 --> 00:11:57.919 she's not allowed at the end. forced by her family 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:00.360 for circumstances to get into the teaching job 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:03.200 so this also matter whether are you a teacher 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:06.980 by choice or by chance that plays an immense 00:12:06.980 --> 00:12:10.779 role and for those that are a teacher by chance 00:12:10.779 --> 00:12:14.059 like how do they work through the profession 00:12:14.059 --> 00:12:16.200 because that's that's tough even teachers who 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:19.039 want to be it because it's their choice even 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.100 they have a very challenging time so what is 00:12:21.100 --> 00:12:23.980 it like for those that are in it by force The 00:12:23.980 --> 00:12:26.960 teacher by choice, they're going to go a milestone 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:29.779 ahead with their own will. They'll be happy doing 00:12:29.779 --> 00:12:31.820 things. They'll keep evolving. They're going 00:12:31.820 --> 00:12:33.899 to look onto the opportunities, what they can 00:12:33.899 --> 00:12:38.460 get right. But whereas teachers by chance, you 00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:40.960 need to push them every now and then. You need 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:43.019 to sit with them. You need to talk with them 00:12:43.019 --> 00:12:45.360 because they themselves are sometimes so frustrated 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:48.039 that they don't want to do the job. Their circumstances 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:52.129 are making them be here. They miss going back 00:12:52.129 --> 00:12:54.509 to their corporate job. They miss going back 00:12:54.509 --> 00:12:58.110 to what they love. So that is where a coach comes 00:12:58.110 --> 00:13:00.309 into seeing where you need to sit and talk and 00:13:00.309 --> 00:13:03.230 keep probing or maybe just finding out opportunities 00:13:03.230 --> 00:13:06.230 within the system. Recently, one of the teachers 00:13:06.230 --> 00:13:08.110 said, like, I don't want to be in this teaching. 00:13:08.230 --> 00:13:11.309 I've been good in admin. So that is where it 00:13:11.309 --> 00:13:13.370 just came. So can we create an opportunity that 00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:16.129 she can shift into admin and get her things, 00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:18.789 you know, get what you want? So this is the shift 00:13:18.789 --> 00:13:21.470 that I believe. There's a need of shift of a 00:13:21.470 --> 00:13:24.330 mindset. That teaching job is not easy. You can't 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:27.730 say that. That to balance your family, oh, you're 00:13:27.730 --> 00:13:30.809 going to go at 7 and be back by 2 p .m. So you'll 00:13:30.809 --> 00:13:32.850 be able to handle. No, it's not that. It's a 00:13:32.850 --> 00:13:35.149 whole day thing. Even after coming back home, 00:13:35.250 --> 00:13:37.690 you are busy with the administrative work. You're 00:13:37.690 --> 00:13:40.210 busy making the reports. You're busy making your 00:13:40.210 --> 00:13:42.870 lesson plan. So there are times you don't get 00:13:42.870 --> 00:13:45.149 time in the school. You're just coming back with 00:13:45.149 --> 00:13:48.450 the whole work at home. And there is no appreciation 00:13:48.450 --> 00:13:51.649 to it. We struggle. Right now, what gives me 00:13:51.649 --> 00:13:55.590 a hope is that my students who were with me once 00:13:55.590 --> 00:13:58.809 when I was a fellow in grade six, now they are 00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:02.110 a fellow and they are leading ahead and they 00:14:02.110 --> 00:14:04.429 are leading all those things of giving back to 00:14:04.429 --> 00:14:07.070 the community, getting up and making sure the 00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:11.629 spaces created are now safe. So we are actually 00:14:11.629 --> 00:14:15.149 working and I can say the hope is still there. 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.279 It has started shining in India, actually. It 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.620 has just started. That's a beautiful story of 00:14:23.620 --> 00:14:25.860 resilience. And it makes me wonder because... 00:14:26.570 --> 00:14:28.889 I think we deal with that a lot in America as 00:14:28.889 --> 00:14:31.110 well, but I'm always interested to hear like 00:14:31.110 --> 00:14:34.149 different extremes of that, if you will, in terms 00:14:34.149 --> 00:14:38.649 of how do teachers in India have trauma -informed 00:14:38.649 --> 00:14:41.129 training? What does that look like, trauma -informed 00:14:41.129 --> 00:14:44.149 teacher training? And how do the educators that 00:14:44.149 --> 00:14:47.509 you work with try and care for themselves and 00:14:47.509 --> 00:14:51.289 not feel emotional exhaustion because of the 00:14:51.289 --> 00:14:53.330 types of experiences they hear from their students 00:14:53.330 --> 00:14:55.820 on a regular basis? When you say like trauma 00:14:55.820 --> 00:14:58.879 informed, as I told you, like this word is not 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.460 used over here. They're not much aware about 00:15:01.460 --> 00:15:04.419 this. But yeah, social emotional learning is 00:15:04.419 --> 00:15:07.039 taking a boom of understanding their own emotion 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.019 and understanding the emotions of the children. 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.679 If you go like specific with what a trauma informed 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:18.740 training look like, I won't say it is like a 00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:23.159 full awareness over here. It is very less. But 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:26.240 yes, right now they're putting their spaces where 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.899 they're talking about building this social emotional 00:15:29.899 --> 00:15:32.100 learning in place, specifically acknowledging 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:36.159 the emotions of the child. But what trauma they're 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.559 coming from or how they need to be dealt of, 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:41.399 that is still a struggle. That is where teachers 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.559 need to go back to the counselor. Sometimes they 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.559 don't even realize. So that is still a struggle, 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.250 I would say. Right. So just understanding. what 00:15:50.250 --> 00:15:53.090 trauma is before you become trauma -informed. 00:15:53.129 --> 00:15:54.929 We have to define it before we know how to act 00:15:54.929 --> 00:15:59.190 on it. Exactly, exactly. So sometimes even while 00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:02.350 having a discussion of what has happened or what 00:16:02.350 --> 00:16:05.750 led to the action of you talking to the child 00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:08.049 and from the whole class or just raising your 00:16:08.049 --> 00:16:11.049 voice, so we just realize the teacher is not 00:16:11.049 --> 00:16:13.759 even informed that. the background of the child 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.980 from where the child is coming from or if there 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:20.019 is a certain kind of a behavior why is it so 00:16:20.019 --> 00:16:23.179 the why gets missing that is where we need to 00:16:23.179 --> 00:16:25.980 push them yeah because i know that here in the 00:16:25.980 --> 00:16:29.159 states the social worker situation or the school 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:32.879 counselor situation is that there are extremely 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.279 high caseloads of students with very low resources 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:38.620 to work with and for those that want more of 00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:40.580 a counselor's perspective from America we can 00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:42.779 go ahead and check out Minca Langer from season 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:45.620 one you'll have a link in the show notes. So Supriya 00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:47.779 I also wanted to think about what classroom discipline 00:16:47.779 --> 00:16:50.600 looks like with schools in India because i'll 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:52.879 mention an example here in the states and i'm 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.580 going to be very transparent about it. Normally 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:59.179 here in the states, the child is sent to the assistant 00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:01.879 principal or the principal they have a little 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.819 conversation they get a lollipop they come back 00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:09.619 and they go about their business and it's very 00:17:09.619 --> 00:17:12.599 challenging for teachers because they feel like 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:14.460 there needs to be more accountability on the 00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:18.000 students behavior in order for what occurs to 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.039 be rectified and corrected what are some steps 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:23.339 towards mediating discipline that you've seen 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:26.579 within your own school system i've been lucky 00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:29.140 enough to work with such management that they 00:17:29.140 --> 00:17:32.920 do listen to the teachers and but versus the 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:37.700 reality checkers when you work with other managements 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:39.759 there are managements where they'll not listen 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.640 so the simplest thing they'll say is that if 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:44.940 there is any complaint coming from the parent 00:17:44.940 --> 00:17:47.960 so we'll never support it will be on their side 00:17:48.569 --> 00:17:51.089 So you have to be careful about your actions. 00:17:51.210 --> 00:17:53.829 You have to be careful about things. Versus the 00:17:53.829 --> 00:17:56.190 managements that I have worked with, they have 00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:59.430 been very supportive. So they do ask about things. 00:17:59.509 --> 00:18:03.109 They do help us and guide us that these are things 00:18:03.109 --> 00:18:06.150 that you must have so that when a parent or when 00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:09.029 something like this happened, we have evidences 00:18:09.029 --> 00:18:11.529 in place. We have things in place to show the 00:18:11.529 --> 00:18:14.589 parent that the teacher is not at fault. With 00:18:14.589 --> 00:18:18.380 managements that follow the mentality of the 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:21.559 parent is always right that's true that's what 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:24.960 what do they gain from that especially in terms 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.900 of building morale from their teachers? So over 00:18:28.900 --> 00:18:31.140 here when the principals are working so they 00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:33.279 have this pressure of admissions also they have 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:35.759 this pressure of retaining also so if they keep 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:38.119 their customers happy I would say customers 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:41.220 I would not say over here as stakeholder because 00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:43.319 right now they're customers because they're paying 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:45.319 They're coming, they're sending their children, 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:47.240 they're paying us and things are happening in 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:49.619 the school because of the payment that is coming. 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.119 And that is where sometimes we are also told 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:55.099 if there are admissions, you'll get a salary 00:18:55.099 --> 00:18:58.680 hike. If there are no admissions, then you see 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.759 where you're going. But then there are managements 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:05.799 who actually believe in human as a resource. 00:19:06.430 --> 00:19:09.029 They actually believe in polishing their teachers. 00:19:09.089 --> 00:19:11.769 They actually believe in keeping everyone happy 00:19:11.769 --> 00:19:15.009 and bringing it a happy place. Because if everyone 00:19:15.009 --> 00:19:17.549 is happy, they'll build on happy culture. And 00:19:17.549 --> 00:19:20.250 so are the students. And so are the parents. 00:19:20.509 --> 00:19:23.170 And so is your admission increasing. And everything 00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:25.710 goes in a cycle. They all are linked together. 00:19:26.029 --> 00:19:28.670 You need to invest in human as a resource. You 00:19:28.670 --> 00:19:31.130 need to check up onto your culture, whether it's 00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:33.589 a happy culture or not. Or are you overburdening 00:19:33.589 --> 00:19:36.390 the teachers so that is where the frustration 00:19:36.390 --> 00:19:39.650 sometimes get on and then blame the teacher so 00:19:39.650 --> 00:19:41.529 it's going from the customer is always right 00:19:41.529 --> 00:19:44.130 mentality because truthfully they are a paying 00:19:44.130 --> 00:19:47.230 customer to let's use the human as a resource 00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:51.029 as a way to find I guess leverage if you will 00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:53.369 and everyone who's involved in making education 00:19:53.369 --> 00:19:55.880 really matter That's true. And it also depends 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:58.319 on the kind of school leader you are, what values 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.940 or beliefs the leader carries. Sometimes there 00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:02.740 are leaders that are going to fight for you. 00:20:02.779 --> 00:20:05.039 They're going to really stand up in front of 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:06.720 the management and tell them that, hey, this 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.099 is not working. You're going to burn them out 00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:12.299 and the outcome will be zero. So the role of 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:15.200 the principal is very crucial. The balance between 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.660 the staff and the management, even also setting 00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:22.829 the right kind of expectation and also sharing 00:20:22.829 --> 00:20:26.410 what gonna lead what because consequences are 00:20:26.410 --> 00:20:29.049 important they need to know i love having those 00:20:29.049 --> 00:20:30.930 leaders that really try and fight for the well 00:20:30.930 --> 00:20:32.910 -being of their faculty because sometimes again 00:20:32.910 --> 00:20:36.700 they fight for the well-being of business Not 00:20:36.700 --> 00:20:39.539 people. But even though if we have such leaders 00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:41.740 at the end of the day, they are also employees. 00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:44.359 Somewhere they also have that burden. So I would 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.900 give that benefit of doubt to them. Maybe they 00:20:46.900 --> 00:20:49.579 are also struggling with that because the school 00:20:49.579 --> 00:20:51.880 is of the management. Principal is the employee. 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:54.460 So are the teachers. So then what role do the 00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:57.119 parents play in education? Like in here, we have 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.200 two extremes. Most of the time we have. the helicopter 00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:06.119 parents that are always very, very involved in 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.160 the learning process to the point where it's 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.720 like, well, they should just be taking the class 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:13.480 themselves. And we have other parents that don't 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:15.640 even know what courses their children are taking. 00:21:16.299 --> 00:21:19.099 What does the parent involvement look like where 00:21:19.099 --> 00:21:21.730 you are? I said, so make sure of those when we 00:21:21.730 --> 00:21:24.569 have those helicopter parents or those who are 00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:27.250 at least concerned. So that's where our role 00:21:27.250 --> 00:21:30.490 changes with the helicopter parents. So with 00:21:30.490 --> 00:21:33.130 every little thing, it has to be reported. Every 00:21:33.130 --> 00:21:36.950 report, every anecdote has to be sent. And then 00:21:36.950 --> 00:21:40.029 again, a lot of conversation. And at the end, 00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:42.430 they're not happy. You are the one you're not 00:21:42.430 --> 00:21:44.650 doing it. This has to be done. So we make them 00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:46.910 come to the classroom. We make them teach the 00:21:46.910 --> 00:21:51.109 children. Really? So once they take upon to the 00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:54.089 charge and they have that experience, that's 00:21:54.089 --> 00:21:57.009 where we build empathy with them. That's where 00:21:57.009 --> 00:22:00.490 we build that trust. We are doing our job. We 00:22:00.490 --> 00:22:03.769 are doing our best. So trust us. And the trust 00:22:03.769 --> 00:22:06.130 builds up. That's where things start happening 00:22:06.130 --> 00:22:09.230 in a smooth way. So that's why we hold a lot 00:22:09.230 --> 00:22:13.230 of events where parents are invited to come and 00:22:13.230 --> 00:22:15.309 take over. Because the best thing, you give them 00:22:15.309 --> 00:22:17.990 the experience only then. And those who are least 00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:20.789 interested, so it's important for the student 00:22:20.789 --> 00:22:23.309 to empower. So what kind of things you require. 00:22:23.650 --> 00:22:26.109 And maybe like a little hand -holding with the 00:22:26.109 --> 00:22:28.849 parent. Because sometimes we feel that parents 00:22:28.849 --> 00:22:30.950 are not interested, but they have their own stories. 00:22:31.710 --> 00:22:33.170 Definitely. That's something we need to take 00:22:33.170 --> 00:22:34.970 note of here in America. I think that's a great 00:22:34.970 --> 00:22:36.950 strategy to bring in the parents and have them 00:22:36.950 --> 00:22:40.079 teach for a day. Oh, trust me, it works wonders 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:42.019 when you're going to have that. I would imagine. 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.839 How are students graded in your system? So, well, 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:52.519 over here, till grade five, we have rubrics. 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.640 we don't give marks because earlier it was all 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.519 uh marks marks and it was becoming a very hard 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:02.099 way of for the students to and for the parents 00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:05.420 also a lot of competition so when you start giving 00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:07.599 marks it is not the students the parents who 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.599 start competing and that's where we struggle 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:12.819 so every time they'll end up they'll not realize 00:23:12.819 --> 00:23:16.519 that "okay, my kid has this caliber and he needs 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.140 to work upon this" versus, "Oh, that kid got such 00:23:20.140 --> 00:23:22.460 good marks and my child is nowhere. What is your 00:23:22.460 --> 00:23:26.039 task? And is he really studying?" And the kid, 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:30.339 the poor chap either will get humiliated or the 00:23:30.339 --> 00:23:32.839 teacher will get humiliated. So that's a little 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:35.700 challenging over here to get the parents and 00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:38.339 acknowledge that, "okay, this is where your child 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:40.920 is appreciated." So we are trying our best to 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:43.670 make sure that parents appreciate it. So they 00:23:43.670 --> 00:23:46.390 had stopped from giving them marks. They shifted 00:23:46.390 --> 00:23:49.829 it to competency-based. They shifted to holistic. 00:23:50.109 --> 00:23:53.369 So till grade five, they have given rubrics. 00:23:53.430 --> 00:23:55.750 Actually, schools can follow till grade eight. 00:23:55.890 --> 00:23:58.650 So there are proper rubrics for each competency. 00:23:59.769 --> 00:24:02.509 And then later, when you come to the higher grades 00:24:02.509 --> 00:24:05.269 of 9th and 10th, where they get a proper assessment, 00:24:05.549 --> 00:24:08.650 where they're given marks, they are being assessed, 00:24:08.710 --> 00:24:11.549 and the board comes into place. That is across 00:24:11.549 --> 00:24:14.390 India. The Central Board of Secondary Education, 00:24:14.589 --> 00:24:17.750 that is where things start happening from 00:24:17.750 --> 00:24:20.329 because by the time the child is in 9th 10th 00:24:20.329 --> 00:24:23.309 11th 12th they know what marks mean they know 00:24:23.309 --> 00:24:26.329 how to be assessed and that two system has changed 00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:29.369 now rather than going to those rot memorization 00:24:29.369 --> 00:24:33.029 so we want them to have to relate it with the 00:24:33.029 --> 00:24:35.950 real life what is the real life in a situation 00:24:35.950 --> 00:24:38.250 going to look like how are the teachers working 00:24:38.250 --> 00:24:40.650 to make the learning relevant to their students 00:24:40.650 --> 00:24:43.509 so they aren't just learning or memorizing ideas 00:24:43.509 --> 00:24:46.289 rather really trying to apply them to what they 00:24:46.289 --> 00:24:48.940 want to do. We have got project -based learning 00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:51.940 in space. So we actually took real -time thing 00:24:51.940 --> 00:24:55.359 which student led and they thought, okay, this 00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:58.519 is a problem that we need to lead. Like one of 00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:01.200 the school I remember took up the responsibility 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:03.759 of creating a learning center in the community 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:06.160 because they don't have a space to go and study. 00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:08.680 So they called it magical room and they took 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:12.019 the whole responsibility. Parents also came on 00:25:12.019 --> 00:25:15.059 board where every evening the parents do the 00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:17.589 duty and the children come. and they teach the 00:25:17.589 --> 00:25:21.170 younger ones. So that's how the rotation is happening. 00:25:21.269 --> 00:25:24.329 It's beautiful to see. Yeah, and it sounds like 00:25:24.329 --> 00:25:26.470 a lot of project -based learning is what helps 00:25:26.470 --> 00:25:29.250 the students apply their knowledge and make it 00:25:29.250 --> 00:25:33.730 relevant and meaningful, which goes so far beyond 00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:38.069 memorization and recall. Yeah, and that is where, 00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:41.589 so when I said it's like a holistic report, that 00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:44.470 is where when I know that one of my child cannot 00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:47.930 write, so maybe because of some learning disability, 00:25:48.269 --> 00:25:51.769 but I can, of course, see how the child is presenting 00:25:51.769 --> 00:25:54.329 the idea, how his community, what kind of, what 00:25:54.329 --> 00:25:56.690 is the clarity of the concept he has or she has. 00:25:56.890 --> 00:26:00.630 So that is where you actually get into an equity 00:26:00.630 --> 00:26:03.190 situation that you know how to evaluate and there 00:26:03.190 --> 00:26:06.099 are ample chances given to the student. Definitely. 00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:08.400 And by doing so, you're involving the whole child 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.259 in their learning process and not just focusing 00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:14.680 on the brain. That's true. So even for the higher 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:18.059 grade this year, our CBSE has introduced two 00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:21.160 board exams. So they're given chance twice, not 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.440 once. Like it's not like a do or die situation. 00:26:23.539 --> 00:26:26.720 So they get chance twice that they can improve 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.599 what they want to give again. So they're not 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.140 actually getting that anxious or getting into 00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:34.900 that panic mode. Right. You know, those are pretty 00:26:34.900 --> 00:26:37.599 high stakes graduation requirements in the States. 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:40.519 And here, I mean, there's a risk of getting held 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:42.480 back a grade if you don't succeed on your first 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.779 try. Our children go through a lot. That is why 00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:49.019 we see so many societal case. That is the thing. 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:51.819 Maybe I'm really glad that our education system 00:26:51.819 --> 00:26:54.359 is not thinking about it. Our government is thinking 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:56.799 about it and giving a lot of chances to the students. 00:26:57.059 --> 00:27:00.680 And this is where we need to polish the mindset 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:02.960 of the teacher also. Exactly. And I love that 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:05.619 because in giving chance, yeah, you're focusing 00:27:05.619 --> 00:27:09.539 on the child and not the brain, which are two 00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:11.859 totally different things. That's true. So you're 00:27:11.859 --> 00:27:14.599 more of student -centric. If not one is cleared, 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.660 maybe the other. So give maximum opportunities. 00:27:18.740 --> 00:27:20.819 What I'm gaining from this conversation is that 00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:23.000 the world is this big. The world is so small 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:26.880 because education is just, it's exactly the same. 00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:30.660 Wow. I was not expecting our similarities to 00:27:30.660 --> 00:27:34.099 really overlap to this extreme. So then what 00:27:34.099 --> 00:27:36.859 does trauma -informed education look like in 00:27:36.859 --> 00:27:41.559 India currently? And what can educators do to 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.180 learn and grow? What can they still learn about 00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:48.680 the topic to benefit their classrooms? I really 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.059 think they need to first connect with what a 00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:53.799 trauma looks like. Having the understanding of 00:27:54.269 --> 00:27:56.670 trauma not only of themselves also because there 00:27:56.670 --> 00:27:59.650 are a lot of educators that join being an educator 00:27:59.650 --> 00:28:01.509 with their own trauma and their own struggling 00:28:01.509 --> 00:28:04.230 and sometimes their biases plays very strong 00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:07.289 in the classroom there's a strong disbalance 00:28:07.289 --> 00:28:11.849 that comes up so that is where i feel a lot of 00:28:11.849 --> 00:28:14.269 work has to be done so when we have our counselors 00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:16.789 in place we make sure that our educators are 00:28:16.789 --> 00:28:20.190 also going so right after covid mental health 00:28:20.190 --> 00:28:23.859 has become a very strong concern across the globe 00:28:23.859 --> 00:28:26.759 even in India also that had actually made them 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.579 acknowledge that there is trauma there are childhood 00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:32.660 traumas also and even you as educator entering 00:28:32.660 --> 00:28:35.059 you also have your own traumas which you carry 00:28:35.059 --> 00:28:38.339 along and you need to get healed before you move 00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:41.119 across because it's important to go into the 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.579 process of healing which now this thing has started 00:28:45.579 --> 00:28:47.940 booming over here in India but yet it's a long 00:28:47.940 --> 00:28:51.039 way to go. Gosh, again, as we come to the end 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.000 of our conversation, I'm continuing to really, 00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:55.619 really think about the fact that the more we 00:28:55.619 --> 00:28:58.779 try to globalize education, we see the world 00:28:58.779 --> 00:29:01.940 is so small. So, Supriya, what would you say 00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:04.119 is a takeaway from today's conversation in terms 00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:07.640 of what people in both India and American systems 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:10.019 and all over the world in education should know? 00:29:10.299 --> 00:29:13.700 And what's maybe even a change that you wish 00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:18.259 we could see within the system? I just feel that 00:29:18.619 --> 00:29:20.940 like you said your topics it's trauma informed 00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:24.279 education i think this is the need of the hour 00:29:24.279 --> 00:29:27.539 this is the major thing and my major takeaway 00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:31.960 is we're working upon is that um being human 00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:35.079 there's a lot of chaos around we forget that 00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.019 after all teachers are human our students are 00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:41.220 human where can our listeners go to learn more 00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:43.240 about you and your work they can reach out to 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:46.240 me on linkedin they're my older work everything 00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:48.660 is there on linkedin Perfect. We'll have that 00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:51.259 link in the show notes for you as well. So Supriya, 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.279 wow. Thank you so much again for this excellent 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:55.680 conversation. And hopefully what our listeners 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.019 have gained here is that while the world is so 00:29:59.019 --> 00:30:02.200 big, education has so many commonalities that 00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:04.740 make it feel so much smaller. And the more we 00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:06.940 can learn to become more aware as to what's going 00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:09.240 on around us, the more likely we can then be 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.720 able to change the system for everybody who is 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:14.819 a part of it for the better. Thank you for joining 00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:17.220 us on the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education 00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:20.480 podcast. If today's episode inspired you or made 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.480 you think differently, I'd love to hear from 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.359 you. Drop a comment or review wherever you listen 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:28.140 to podcasts and stay connected with us on the 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:30.519 at Classroom Narratives podcast over Instagram 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:34.019 and Facebook. Remember, together we can transform 00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:37.640 our scars into stars in education, one conversation 00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:38.759 at a time.