Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education Podcast, the space where education meets resilience.
I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in each episode, we dive deep into the personal stories of educators, students,
leaders, and frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities within modern education.
Whether you're just starting your teaching journey or are a seasoned professional looking for inspiration,
we'll explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent burnout, and build trauma-informed communities within our schools.
Now, let's take a seat at the front of the classroom as we get started.
Welcome to the podcast, everyone, where we are here to continue amplifying voices that inspire change in education and mental health.
Today, I'm honored to speak with Josh Rivedal, a mental health advocate, author, and the founder of the I'mPossible project.
Through his work, Josh has sparked conversations on suicide prevention, resilience, and the power of storytelling in healing.
In this episode, we'll explore Josh's journey, the mission of the I'mPossible project,
and what educators and students can do to create supportive, compassionate spaces for mental health and healing.
So let's go ahead and dive in. First of all, Josh, welcome to the podcast, and a big thanks again for taking the time to come and join us today.
For sure, Joey. Thanks so much. It's an honor and a privilege to be on today.
We love that you're here. Thanks again. So, Josh, I wanted to go ahead and start by talking about the I'mPossible project.
For our listeners, what is the mission of this platform, and how has it transformed the way that people can engage with mental health and suicide prevention?
Yeah, thanks for asking. What we do is entertain, engage, educate, above anything else, on mental health, suicide prevention, resilience, and things under that umbrella.
And we do that through curriculum, through like peer ed programming, through speaking events, some books.
There's a couple of peer reviewed papers associated with this and with the I'mPossible project.
It's finding any sort of way in to have this conversation because folks don't really want to have this conversation.
There's so much stigma and shame and a lack of vocabulary. We don't really share a vocab.
I think you know this, Joey, like we don't really share a vocab around mental health.
I hear a lot of misnomers and just different things just in my daily walk of life.
And so this sort of congeals that together. It's like, no, this is the vocab. This is what we're doing. This is what we're talking about.
And there's nothing to be afraid of. It's a health conversation.
Absolutely. And one of the things that I've caught on to about six years ago after the loss of my own friend to suicide is that we need to change just the delivery of that kind of knowledge, if you will,
where someone does not commit suicide because it sounds criminal, but rather someone dies by suicide or their life is ended by an act of suicide.
And I think just those initial types of responses to the stigma that can lower what it really feels like can really help broaden these types of conversations a little bit further for those that need to feel like their wounds don't have to be so sterile and can let this information become a part of their everyday lives.
What are some different inspirations that you had in terms of creating this project and this platform for others?
Well, actually, I'll start with it pulls from my own lived experience. Right. So first, I've lost my dad to suicide 15 years ago.
He lost his dad in the 60s. Wasn't something we ever talked about. And then me being in crisis two years after having lost my dad, that would have been 2011 and then getting help and then realizing like I wasn't the only one in the world who was going through what I went through at that time.
And then digging in a little deeper and finding out that suicide is a little over three times more likely to occur in the United States than homicide.
Just this idea that there's not a lot of folks talking. We didn't talk about it. So getting out from under that was a really big deal.
The creative side as well, acting, the arts, stand up comedy, cooking, storytelling, things that are a bit in my wheelhouse, but things are just creative that I've made a living at and doing that.
I was like, let's bring that in so that what we do and how we approach this is a lot more engaging.
This comes from a community counseling standpoint as well. So like looking at how are we having conversations around equity in this. Right.
It comes from a place of community and public health, which is so that's like how we show up for each other.
And there's lots of ways we can do that. And we're interdependent on one another as well.
And so there's all these layers that this has really grown from and into over 15 years. And so it's not like a static beast.
It's growing and changing and the foundation stays the same, but more knowledge and more inspiration is piled on top as we grow and change.
You're reminding me when you mention homicide and suicide together, I've actually been very invested in the research done by Sue Klebold.
And Sue Klebold, for those who are listening, is the mother of Columbine shooter Dylan Klebold.
And what she says is that the chances of somebody's child committing an act of homicide is significantly less likely than having someone's child die by suicide.
And as a mother, she comes forward and is very open, like no other mother of a tragedy we have seen ever has been, the mother of a perpetrator, that is, to come forward and say,
my son died by suicide and he needed help and his suicidal tendencies became homicidal.
So you have me thinking about that in terms of work we need to talk about in terms of getting people with certain types of tendencies, the help that they need before it's too late and what signs we need to look for.
And I believe that the I'mPossible project helps us look for those different signals.
And for those that are looking to learn a little bit more about Columbine, I encourage you to visit Paula Reed's segment from earlier in season one.
But in thinking about the work that Josh is also doing, I want us to also think about the work that education and mental health does together in one setting.
So I'm thinking about that as educators and leaders are thinking about creating these trauma informed environments.
What do you believe are the key steps that schools can take in order to better address mental health and suicide prevention?
That's a great question, Joey. I think on a very basic level, we need to start with educating staff.
I get brought in a lot to universities to talk to students, and that's a really important, crucial step.
I think we go a step further and I think really the foundation should be staff because we need to know and learn how to be healthier helpers.
There's a lot of staff who feel underprepared and overwhelmed in terms of even just being approached or by a conversation like I'm struggling, I need help.
Or when they recognize a sign or a symptom of like, hey, the student's falling off or they're not showing up or their hygiene is off.
Avoid talk to somebody else, kind of push to the side, which might be on the more extreme level of I wouldn't say apathy necessarily, but fear.
And so we can mitigate those situations by on a foundational level, creating a culture.
I think we need to start from top down.
I think that also means we educate and build relationships with parents and guardians in the community as well.
I think investing in peer ed programming where like somebody leads it as a staff member and then there's a training that happens once a year.
So students are educating students. That peer ed piece is super powerful.
It also helps because let's face it, like it's not just young people, but in sort of these environments,
like we don't know how to properly always look after ourselves in a proactive and healthy way.
And so often, but not always, a crisis could be mitigated if certain elements of community and public health, sleep, nourishing food, elements of self care,
making sure that folks know how to resource themselves to the level that they're able to.
There's different stakeholders at different levels that can participate and have their own thing.
And then they come together and support one another and the students at large.
What different types of advice would you give to leaders in school communities that show resistance towards acknowledging the basic needs of their students?
I think we can look at new and recent research, not just in the U.S., but around the globe, around peer reviewed research with a lot of case studies.
There's certain things that we need to do to meet needs.
I think there's enough information out there around in terms of when students' basic needs are met, they're going to do a lot better.
They're going to matriculate. That even shows up on the university level.
I mean, think about how big a glut there is of just freshman year students who pay 10, 20, 30 thousand dollars and then drop out because that wasn't their time or they didn't understand the resources or they couldn't eat because all they had money was enough just for the books or what?
So on that level, too, but in terms of elementary, middle and high school, in terms of like feeding kids, I think it's probably more inexpensive to feed kids than it is to chase them around, be a truancy officer.
It's more inexpensive to provide the resource than it is to clean up the mess when something goes wrong.
It's in our best interest to make sure that on some level people are getting an education and that there are as few barriers to that as possible.
Let's go back to the I'mPossible project.
And I wanted you to share with us some of the initiatives that the I'm possible project has been successful in doing and breaking down those barriers so people can get the help they need.
I think storytelling is one of the biggest things and there's lots of ways we can tell story.
You can do it. I mean, I don't do it this way, but you can tell through interpretive dance.
You can tell through painting.
Those aren't my mediums.
My more words, metaphors, simile, I think one of my I think superpowers in this space is in addition to being like relentless about seeking knowledge around it.
It's the words, it's the metaphor, it's the simile, it's the things, putting it in such a way that activates the brain that makes it light up to the power of storytelling.
When we hear a story, when we tell a story and we do it effectively, the person who's listening to us, their brain activates as if they were doing the action actually being talked about.
And so to me, in a sense, that means that talking about help and hope and things like that lead to getting help and modeling those kinds of behaviors and things like that.
So I think storytelling is a big deal.
Having the proper vocab is a big deal.
It's talking about it in a very neutral way, like mental health is a person's psychological, emotional well-being.
It's either good or bad, positive or negative.
It is.
I think being vulnerable is really important.
I think those are some of the big ones.
And then the last thing I'll say is just finding a way to have a conversation around this and breaking stigma, doing it in such a way around the fringes in a sense.
Or like I'm a standup comic, right?
Sometimes I'll lead off a session with that.
Or I'll definitely integrate humor.
Or what do we do around mental health and food?
I've done stuff, you know, so we have a cooking class and then we talk about the mental health benefits of that.
And it's not just me.
I mean, there's other ways we can do that.
But I think integrating this somewhere, it's not just a sterile button down conversation with facts and figures.
Nobody likes that.
That's boring.
There's no humanity or heart to that.
And people want to connect on a visceral and heart level.
And so I think being able to do that, going back to the storytelling piece, I think is a really, really big deal.
Could you tell us a little bit more about what safe language is and what it represents?
Yeah. So you even touched on it earlier.
Something as simple as "committed suicide" versus "died by suicide".
That would be saying died by suicide is safe language.
There's a side of it where it affects the survivor of loss, somebody who loved someone and who died.
And that gets focused on a lot and that's important.
But for me, where this is important is for the person who may be struggling.
They might think I'm going to commit a sin, I'm going to commit a crime.
Those things are bad.
Bad people shouldn't get help and therefore I'm not going to get help.
Right. So we eliminate that or mitigate that greatly when we say things like death or died by suicide.
Safe language would also be not talking about the methodology of the attempt or the death.
Right. Meaning like, yes, my father died by suicide, my grandfather died by suicide.
I know exactly the methodology of how they died.
I never talk about that in public, specifically to audiences I'm educating,
because I don't want somebody to think in their head, oh, I only knew about X, Y and Z.
I didn't know that you could do A or B because Josh, like that's no.
Right. And then even things like first person language, right.
Like a so and so is not an addict. They're living with addiction.
To me, that's safe language because we don't want to label somebody as the thing that they're struggling with.
That's they're more than that thing.
So those are a few examples of safe language.
I think a lot of folks, when they think of someone attempting suicide, they think how self is bad, sinful, crazy, weird, weak, messed up, etc.
And I completely disagree. And we know why, because it's about hopelessness and a perceived or real lack of resources.
But what people don't know is that not all the same neural pathways, but many of the neural pathways that register pain in the brain,
register emotional and physical pain on the same pathways.
And they don't always necessarily tell the difference in full.
And so on average, a person like if I break my kneecap, I'm going to get help within a couple of hours.
Maybe the pain is going to be mitigated on a certain level for a couple of weeks and then it's going to subside or be gone completely.
You know, there's probably going to be some physical therapy.
But on average, I think a person in emotional pain or distress waits much longer than I want to say.
And it's on average, a span of more than a year, but even less than that.
I mean, a broken kneecap for six weeks, nine weeks, getting no help.
It's going to atrophy. It's going to. Right.
And we would never call somebody sinful, bad, you know, all that stuff. Right.
So it kind of goes to safe language, but it also kind of goes to how do we educate and how do we decrease that stigma?
Right. Because there is no stigma at all for someone who breaks their knee and goes to a knee doctor.
But there is a stigma attached to someone who has, let's say, a malfunctioning mind and therefore goes to visit a therapist.
Because a therapist is like a physician, but for the brain.
That's right. Yeah. Yeah.
And I wanted to also think about in terms of the texts that you have worked with and the texts that you produced,
your book, "How to Live Mentally Well and Crush It in College", for example,
provides a lot of practical advice for students navigating mental health challenges.
So I wanted to first ask what inspired you to write this guide for college students and for our college students who may be listening today?
What can they gain from this text and how do your works on the I'mPossible Project also work to support student
age audiences on taking care of their brain health as they start college?
Yeah, thanks. It's really short. Right. So it's for the short attention span is for the short time frame.
Right. They're all very short chapters, but there's stuff on proper sleep, on comparison and the dangers of comparison,
how to be a healthier helper, a lot of skills based things that just sort of make some of the challenges of major change
going off to college or being in college more manageable.
There's a new book that I put out earlier in the year, "The Central Guide to Personal Finance for Teens and College Students".
But it's basically it's like 10 percent mental health and 90 percent personal finance from like a wellness standpoint.
It integrates the mental health piece.
And there's some sort of active stuff that goes on inside of it as well, so that the reader isn't just a passive consumer of the information,
but they're active and they're able to take whatever action they want to based on some of the exercises on how to save, how to manage.
Because that's just another angle, right, in terms of like how we can manage our wellness and financial wellness as part of it.
Because a lot of our students are also working individuals.
And as I always tell my students, no matter what year that they're in, that everybody in their university should have a genuine mission to help them succeed.
Everybody who is in the university has one shared common goal, and this to see the student graduate.
I even tell my students, even amongst each other, you might not know each other, but you all have that goal.
You want to get out of here and graduate and hopefully even on time.
So again, Josh, your work has had such a profound impact on individuals and communities at large.
So I wanted to know what advice could you give us for someone who may be listening to this,
but also may also feel powerless or overwhelmed when thinking about mental health issues in their own circles?
Just know that the awareness of your challenges and the need for support is huge.
It's a big deal. There are folks in the world.
And I've been one of these folks who is unaware of the level of the challenge that they were going through for whatever reason.
Trauma change, whatever, not only just unaware, but also unaware of the support available, right?
And that support is available.
So I think that knowledge and the awareness that you need something is actually a really big deal.
Validate. I want to validate you as well.
I want to first of all, before there's any advice, like it's OK to feel this way.
Like it is it's it's it's semi normal. You're human.
It's not OK to stay here. I think you know that.
But it's OK to feel this way. Many have before.
And then I think focus on what you can do, right?
Focus on the little wins. I remember even going back to me being in crisis that the little wins that I had,
it was really like I can breathe, I can walk, I can blink.
You know, I've got a place to stay and I've got some work coming in.
But it's even more than that.
So a symbol is like I can't control what comes to me, but I can control how I respond.
And sometimes it's even just the basics, like maybe today all I could do is brush my teeth,
make a meal and apply for one job. That might be more than you did yesterday.
That's a baby step. Right. And then definitely, definitely seek support outside of yourself.
That could be mentorship. That could be a role model.
Those are kind of two different things that could be, you know, seeking support or help from a doctor,
a therapist, just speaking out about it and taking those baby steps out there is going to be really important.
Seeking that support outside yourself is going to be huge.
Well, a big thanks to Josh for coming in today.
And what I'm hoping is that we're just getting started because I think there's so much more within this conversation that we can go deeper into.
So stick around because we'd love to continue this dialogue throughout several other seconds as well.
So, again, thank you, Josh, for sharing your insights and the work that you're doing with the I'mPossible project,
because your message of resilience and hope is truly inspiring to me and our listeners and to our listeners.
If you'd like to learn more about Josh's work and get involved, check out joshuarovadol.com.
You'll find it in the show notes. And he's very responsive. He's a real person.
We got in touch instantly about two and a half years ago, and it has been a phenomenal partnership in working towards that goal.
And remember that together we can foster conversations that leads to healing and transformation.
So until next time, just remember to keep showing up, show your presence and keep sharing your stories as a way to collectively make an impact.
Thank you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education podcast.
If today's episode inspired you or made you think differently, I'd love to hear from you.
Drop a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts and stay connected with us on the at Classroom Narratives podcast over Instagram and Facebook.
Remember, together we can transform our scars into stars in education, one conversation at a time.