1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,600 Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education Podcast, the space where education meets resilience. 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:14,080 I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in each episode, we dive deep into the personal stories of educators, students, 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:20,480 leaders, and frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities within modern education. 4 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:26,000 Whether you're just starting your teaching journey or are a seasoned professional looking for inspiration, 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:33,280 we'll explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent burnout, and build trauma-informed communities within our schools. 6 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,920 Now, let's take a seat at the front of the classroom as we get started. 7 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,720 Welcome back to the Classroom Narratives Podcast, everyone. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in today's episode, 8 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:51,440 I'm thrilled to be welcoming Mike Earnshaw, an inspiring principal, author, and co-host of Punk Rock Classrooms Podcast. 9 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:57,680 Mike brings a fresh perspective to educational leadership by fusing the energy of punk rock with the commitment 10 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,840 to fostering supportive, transformative environments within our schools. 11 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:07,920 And his book, The Educulture Cookbook, is packed with "actionable recipes" 12 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:14,240 for creating collaborative and empathetic and student-centered classrooms that empower both teachers and students. 13 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:22,160 And Mike's work has also been a reminder that the right culture is the key ingredient in the recipe for educational success. 14 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,360 So, Mike, welcome to the podcast. We're so happy to have you with us today. 15 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:31,040 Thanks, Joey. I'm excited to be here. It's been, as we talked before, the start. It's been a while in the making. 16 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,480 I'm stoked to be here. 17 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:39,360 Absolutely. So the first time Mike and I connected was over Twitter, actually, through the teacher Twitter network, if you will. 18 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,160 Right. 19 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:46,400 Back in 2022, and I reached out to Mike because I picked up his book, The Educulture Cookbook, 20 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:52,800 which serves as almost like a cookbook of recipes, and Mike will tell us in his own words what that text is as well. 21 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,360 But there is a recipe that he offered in his text called Struggle Island. 22 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:05,840 And in teaching Struggle Island within my own classes, it requires the audiences, which in this case was my own students, 23 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:12,560 to lower their guards, be vulnerable, and share things that they may be struggling with at that time. 24 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:20,240 So in teaching my first semester freshmen, we do that Struggle Island activity about three weeks into the semester once everyone's gotten acclimated 25 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,160 and have been a little bit more in tuned to their own concerns with their adjustment. 26 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:35,200 So my college students share their concerns anonymously, and then their peers work to offer insight that support each other throughout the remaining four months of that term. 27 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,320 And I got that idea from Mike's book. 28 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:43,360 So I reached out to him just to say, hey, I see this and I'm using it. 29 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,720 What more can I learn? 30 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,280 And we've been back and forth at it for about two and a half years because of that. 31 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:54,320 So a shout out to Mike for offering this incredible text that has served educators so well. 32 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,840 So my first question for Mike is, what did you choose education? 33 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:04,800 And when was that moment that you realized that as a school leader, you were in the perfect place? 34 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,400 What made me choose education? 35 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:14,960 Yeah, so I don't have that story where a lot of people are always like, oh, I knew I was going to be a teacher since I was five years old and played school with my siblings and cousins. 36 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,560 Like that wasn't me, right? 37 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,000 I was always good at school. 38 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,160 I was an honor student growing up. 39 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:30,640 And then it was when I got to like eighth grade in high school, specifically, where I realized I started going down like probably the wrong path and grades started falling. 40 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:36,560 But it was there was a couple teachers as a high school student, Coach K. 41 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,240 And I had him for history as a sophomore. 42 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:47,520 He taught a freshman history class, but I had failed out the first time I ever received a failing grade in a course my freshman year. 43 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,600 So I had to retake it as a sophomore and Senor Sullivan. 44 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,600 I took eight years of Spanish. 45 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,120 Don't ask me to speak it. 46 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:03,440 But those two, you know, there was a point where they kind of pulled me in one day and they knew what I was up to in the parking lot. 47 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:14,400 They could see the bloodshot eyes and they they kind of just, you know, instead of like sending me to the office where I could be disciplined or in trouble, they more talked to me and said, you've got so much potential. 48 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,240 Like they saw past the mohawk. 49 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,080 They saw past the skateboard. 50 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:26,320 They saw past all of the exterior shell that I had on expressing myself and said, you're throwing your life away. 51 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:35,440 And you would think at that point, I'm like, I'm going to be a teacher, you know, but no, like I turned myself around, finished high school successfully and started college. 52 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:43,680 And I did not go away to school just because my mom and I had said, if I went away, I'm going to go right down that same path. 53 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,600 I was going down. 54 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,440 So I stayed at home. 55 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:53,920 I worked and it was probably about a semester, two semesters in. 56 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:59,680 And I just was taking courses, you know, because my mom and I agreed if I took time off, I never would go back. 57 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,880 And I think it was one time I was sitting there like in the courtyard between classes and I was like, you know what? 58 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,880 I kept thinking those two teachers that like stuck with me. 59 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:17,360 And I was like, you know, I'm going to go into education because they had an impact on me and projected my life in a different path. 60 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,680 I wouldn't be here without them. 61 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,480 So that's kind of how I landed in education. 62 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,520 If that answers your question. 63 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:26,560 It does. 64 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:35,800 I just had to chuckle because of that non-traditional story of I remember my first year teaching, I just got I felt really touched at one moment and I had to admit to my classes. 65 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,280 I said, you know, the first time I ever taught this lesson was to my stuffed animals a couple of years ago. 66 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:46,760 And like it's a like, Mr. Weiser, you're a grown man, please. 67 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,680 And I started to also notice this. 68 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,240 I think about this a lot because I was the teacher's pet no matter what. 69 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:55,400 Like it was like competitive. 70 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:01,000 Like if I did not feel myself as teachers, I would just try harder because I went over every teacher. 71 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:12,760 And because of that, in my first year teaching, when I had students that just outright hated me for whatever their reasons were and did not want to build that partnership with me, there was a big gap in my knowledge because of that. 72 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:26,760 And I think sometimes students who really have that human struggle when they're growing up in middle school or high school can really connect to those troubling students much more when they are in that teacher role, because they can think about what's in their minds. 73 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,880 It's almost like the police catch the criminal has to think like the criminal sort of thing. 74 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,000 I couldn't do that because I couldn't approach the mindset for those students. 75 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:47,880 So that was another reason why I was probably told that I was the teacher, the new teacher who struggled the most his first year in my new school, because I just couldn't vibe and get through to those students who needed me the most. 76 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,960 And I think about that quite a bit. 77 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:55,680 And you also talk about in the Educultural Cookbook that you had a fascination with culinary arts. 78 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,880 So how did you blend between those paths and make them merge in any way? 79 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,760 So I always say if I didn't go into education, I would have went to culinary school. 80 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,960 I remember it was seventh grade. 81 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:16,960 We had Home-Ec in my middle school and where most of the male students didn't want to embrace a Home-Ec class. 82 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:17,760 I loved it. 83 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:25,560 You know, I mean, it's essentially it should be called life skills, right, because you're learning laundry, hygiene, cooking. 84 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:32,920 And it's when we did the cooking unit that I really was like, wow, you know, my boys relied on my mom to do my cooking at that point. 85 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:41,880 And I kind of was got to experience and we were making grilled cheeses and seeing all these different ways and approaches, kids are making their grilled cheeses. 86 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,840 So I kind of would start experimenting and doing things at home and helping cook in the kitchen. 87 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:56,160 And then when I got into high school, I started off as a busboy, then became a dishwasher and worked my way up to like headline chef in this restaurant I was at. 88 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,520 And I loved it. 89 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:07,840 And essentially, I think that's almost kind of like what a lot of the skills I learned when I was "running the kitchen" and being the one that everything would fall back on those shifts. 90 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:18,200 I worked, you know, it set me up for my role as a school principal, like in leadership, because, you know, you're still I was still managing everyone below me, working with the waitresses. 91 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:24,640 You know, it's like having your teachers and your support staff and all of the, you know, the customers are your students, your consumers. 92 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,920 So it really had a great parallel. 93 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:42,200 But it was one of those things where he's going back and forth and I kind of was like, you know, I'm going to I'm going to pursue this teaching thing because it just was those two teachers that just kept sticking with me. 94 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:49,160 So I always if I ever were to go back for a second career at this point, which I'm not because I'm old now. 95 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:56,680 And like, so I would be if I had a chance to transition or switch would be to that. 96 00:08:56,680 --> 00:09:04,880 I think there's a lot of similarities, but there's a lot of differences and there's just and it's there's different challenges that are exciting. 97 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,040 But there's a lot of challenges that are the same of what I'm experiencing now. 98 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:13,880 So definitely. And I think we need to take a moment just to acknowledge the positive teachers that we've had in our lives. 99 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,720 So to all of our teachers who are listening, just a reminder that everything you do makes a difference. 100 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:27,800 And I thought about this last night, if I were to be asked the question, like, what difference does the work we do make? The truth is that we may never know. 101 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,520 Right. It exists in somebody somewhere. 102 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:38,920 And I think that's something that I still have to get used to very often, especially when my imposter syndrome tells me otherwise, which is pretty frequently. 103 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:45,240 Right. And so I wanted to go ahead and turn our attention to the edu culture cookbook. 104 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:54,800 So you talk a lot about creating an edu culture in terms of practical approaches that bring empathy and collaboration back into the classroom setting. 105 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:03,400 So I want to know if you could talk about some of the key ingredients that you talk about in your text that can help support other educators who may be listening. 106 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:15,160 So my whole life, I've always been about relationships, being honest and open and supportive with whether it was my friends or coworkers or family. 107 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,720 And when I was a teacher, it was the same thing. 108 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:34,880 I was the teacher that I would rather go and collaborate and talk with my colleagues during a plan time or lunch than actually sit down and like lesson plan, which in a sense, we were lesson planning because we did a ton of cross-curricular units. 109 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,600 I was a middle school ELA teacher. 110 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,200 So we were a very collaborative team. 111 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:47,000 And so when I became my actual building principal, this is I'm in the middle of my 10th year at the same campus. 112 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,840 Congratulations. Thank you. 113 00:10:48,840 --> 00:11:02,000 I kind of for some reason thought my first couple of years, like I needed to do the stereotypical principal thing, like come in, make phone calls, look at emails and spreadsheets and then make my rounds around the school. 114 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,520 So people see me maybe pop in the lunchroom once or twice a week. 115 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:07,920 And I was miserable. 116 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,800 And I was at this at this point, I was like early 30s, mid 30s. 117 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,840 I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is it. 118 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,760 I'm not going to be able to sustain this the rest of my career. 119 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,200 Like, this is boring. 120 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:24,120 Like, I'm not getting the same fulfillment from when I was a classroom teacher or even an assistant principal. 121 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,480 So I went to a conference. 122 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:32,880 The NASSP conference was in Chicago, which is 20, 30 minutes from where I live. 123 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:39,600 And I kind of saw all these principals doing things out of the box. 124 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:44,080 Right. And their main thing was always relationships. 125 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,840 And I was like, why am I not leading the way? 126 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,120 Like, I'm I'm being an imposter these first couple of years. 127 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,720 Right. So I started to put my focus back on to what I do best. 128 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,040 And that's working with staff and listening with them and supporting them and being there. 129 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,040 You know, I adopted the mobile desk where I'm in the hallways in the classrooms. 130 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,360 You know, I'm barely in the front office. 131 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:11,960 And I saw the culture positively start to transform. 132 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,080 We started doing a lot of things with faculty meetings where, you know how it is, 133 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,640 all the third grade teachers come and they sit at the same table. 134 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,600 The social studies department sits together at a faculty meeting, which is fine. 135 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:28,640 But we would always get up and do some kind of team building activity. 136 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,640 But there's always like a method to it, like a professional development piece to what I was bringing. 137 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,000 And it wasn't just to have fun and laugh with each other. 138 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:43,200 And when we started to implement these things and doing these things out of the box and me taking risks 139 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,400 by starting the blog and starting a podcast and putting myself out there, 140 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,200 you could see the staff start to do the same. 141 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:58,400 And the vibe in the building just started to become just more positive. 142 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,800 People looked like they enjoyed coming to work. 143 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:07,600 People told me they looked forward to staying for a faculty meeting after school, which is unheard of, right? 144 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,960 Like who wants to say, oh, yeah, I can't wait to sit here for an hour or two hours after school. 145 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,560 But people looked forward and they didn't know it was coming. 146 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:19,280 And we were able to accomplish so many amazing things. 147 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:27,600 And one of the things that I'm just going to shameless plug for our campus is right before the pandemic in Illinois, 148 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:33,640 you know, you take your state assessment and then the state has these metrics and they have this line that every year shifts. 149 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,720 So you never know what the threshold is going to be. 150 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:46,280 But before the pandemic, our school was like three points away from this line for our CWD students, children with disabilities. 151 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:52,480 So because one subgroup didn't make the state assessment benchmark, we were labeled as targeted. 152 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,200 And then the pandemic hit. Then we didn't take the state assessment. 153 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,240 And then they brought the state assessment back. But it's just practice. 154 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,960 It's not going to count for anything. So no matter how you do, it doesn't matter. 155 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:10,280 It's just a C. So we kind of got stuck in this targeted status for a long time. 156 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:16,680 And we never focused on that. Like it never was like, hey, we need to teach the test and get out of here. 157 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:22,640 We maintained our relationships. We maintain that collaboration and taking risks. 158 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:32,560 And not only last year did we test the first time we were able to actually have a count where it came to or two years ago. 159 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:39,720 I'm sorry. We took the IAR assessment, fell in the commendable status where every subgroup met that benchmark. 160 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,560 So it was a weight lifted like off the left shoulder of me. 161 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:48,520 Then we had because in Illinois, you have to do it for two years till you're really considered commendable. 162 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:54,120 So then about a month ago, less than a month ago, the results from last year's assessment came out. 163 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,320 Once again, all of our subgroups made that benchmark commendable again. 164 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,840 So we are no longer in that status. We're no longer receiving the extra funds from the state. 165 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:13,920 And it's funny because people will ask me, colleagues will ask me in the other buildings in our district that have fallen into that same category that we used to be in. 166 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,720 Like, what did you do? I'm like, we built relationships and supported each other. 167 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,480 Like, well, no, but really, like, really, what did you do? I'm like, I mean, that's it. 168 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,760 Like, you know, I'm not a micromanager. 169 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,160 Like, you're employed here because I trust you're going to do your job. 170 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,880 But education could feel like you're on an island in your room by yourself or in your office by yourself. 171 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,160 So it's important to know you've got experts all in your building. 172 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:47,120 And when you're having one of those days or you're struggling, there's a plethora of people you can go to to rely on. 173 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,880 And then vice versa, they're going to come to you when their time comes that they need that assistance. 174 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:56,480 Can you give an example of one of the exercises that you would use during your professional developments for listeners to hear about? 175 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:01,080 Yeah, so I know you talked about Struggle Island, so I'm not going to talk about that one. 176 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:07,680 Oh, man, I got two that are my favorite. But I think I'll go with Flippin' Flapjacks. 177 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:16,720 This one, I brought all of our staff to the gym and I had brought in the mobile cart of butcher paper. 178 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:25,040 I told everyone before we came into the gym, you need to pick a team that is representative of all of the grade levels and departments in our building. 179 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:32,120 So you need to have a kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, a specialist, you know, art, music or PE teacher, a parapro. 180 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,000 And I didn't, you know, I wanted to split the group up. 181 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:43,720 I said, pick a captain and the captain needs to come over and take a piece of butcher paper that everyone can stand on, your whole team. 182 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,320 So some people took a piece just big enough for the entire team to stand on. 183 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,440 Some people took a really big piece. They had extra slack coming off each end. 184 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,960 I had everyone draw a line on one side. 185 00:16:53,960 --> 00:17:00,920 I said, the goal is you need to, as a team, without stepping on the gym floor, flip your paper over completely. 186 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:09,840 So what happened was we had about seven teams and as people were finishing, they would start to kind of funnel around other teams. 187 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,640 Now, not one team did the same approach. 188 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,280 I had people trying to like shuffle it with their feet. 189 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:23,960 I had people on top of other shoulders, even though I told them don't get on each other's backs, have less feet on the paper to try to flip it. 190 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:25,840 So there's all these different approaches. 191 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:32,120 And as a team finished, they would kind of gather around the other team still working. 192 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:36,920 And we got to the point where there was one team left and the entire staff is around them. 193 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:43,040 And the beauty was not one person told them, hey, here's what we did. 194 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,560 They looked at their approach and guided them through what they were already doing. 195 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:55,800 So then we had a discussion about there was not one way everyone accomplished the goal and everyone accomplished it at different times. 196 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,280 Some shorter, some took longer and everyone had a different approach. 197 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,120 So what about our lessons in school? 198 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:03,000 What about our students? 199 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,120 They're learning every kid's going to hit. 200 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:10,400 You know, you always see that that meme about the popcorn, you know, every Colonel pops at different times. 201 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,280 Every kid's going to get there, but it might take a little bit longer. 202 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,000 It might take a different approach. 203 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:22,440 And it was very eye opening for even some veteran staff to be like experiencing that kind of firsthand. 204 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:29,400 You got to maybe readjust and rethink your approach to to teach in the kids. 205 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,920 And it makes me think about like I'm a big fan of common planning. 206 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,840 Controversially, I'm not a fan of common alignment. 207 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:48,400 I do not believe that everybody needs to be teaching page 56 of the Monkey's Paw on Monday and page 57 on Tuesday, because nobody knows our students better than the people on the front lines with them. 208 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:54,560 And I think an exercise like that also shows that, like you said, you hired your teachers had a trust. 209 00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:02,120 So there should be an element of authority that goes in to how curriculum should be delivered to maximize their student outcomes. 210 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:14,320 And when we think about that, what can we say about our leaders who are listening today who really may try and favor the standards or the test over relationship building? 211 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:24,160 I mean, the standards and tests are important. And if I told you that I never looked and analyze them and did work to understand them better, it'd be a lie. 212 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:36,320 It is. But I intertwine it and embed it with the relationship building, because if you don't have a staff that trusts you, that knows you support them, 213 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:48,200 regardless of whether they're being successful or they're struggling, people aren't going to take risks. People aren't going to get out there and be their best because there's almost like this fear of failure. 214 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:58,760 And we all have it, no matter how often we get out of our comfort zones, no matter how often we take risks and accomplish tough things, there's always going to be some inherent fear that we have. 215 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:14,320 But if we can kind of showcase as a school community, as a staff, as a team, that we're all here working for the same goal, which is to empower our kids to know that their voice is going to go out there and make a difference when they leave us, 216 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:28,120 that's going to eliminate a lot of that fear. My sister principal and I had all of our staff do what we call out of the comfort zone lessons, where we said, we want you to just do something you've always wanted to do, but you've always been afraid to do it. 217 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:33,480 We give you the green light, we support you, let us know what you need, and let's just try it. 218 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:44,680 And it turned out that 90% of the staff who were up for evaluations that time of the year chose these out of your comfort zone lessons as their evaluation, which 219 00:20:44,680 --> 00:21:01,520 slept that bespoke volumes because they trusted me and my sister principal, they saw us taking risks and putting ourselves out there. So they trusted that we weren't going to let them fail. Like if it backfired, I'm going to say, Joey, hey, I think we both know that this was a flop. 220 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:14,280 Let's reschedule, do something else. But surprisingly, and actually it's not that surprising to me knowing our staff, none of these evaluations, none of these lessons failed. They were all a huge success. 221 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:28,800 And it just helped to open that door to like in the future, like, look, you don't need us to say we're doing something you've always wanted to do. Just do it now. Do it and see what happens. If it doesn't work, just reevaluate, readjust and do something different next time. 222 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:36,400 I love it. I love that story so much because my first year teaching, I really tried to be that innovative, pedagogist, if you will. 223 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:43,640 And I remember when it was time for my evaluation, I was that first year probationary teacher. So I had a lot at risk. 224 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:58,720 My colleagues who knew the way that I preferred to instruct said to me, listen, for one hour this year, just put on the horse and pony show and be who you need to be for those administrators. 225 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:10,440 And the whole thing felt so fake. Yeah. And it was not my favorite evaluation because I think everyone saw that there is such a lack of authenticity in that classroom that day. 226 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:20,760 And I became a professor whenever I had like one day we were talking about identities with reading a book and taken from the center of speaking and communication, I believe. 227 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:30,800 I had the students walk around with clothes pins and pin these different labels and identities on each other, like these arbitrary household items like today, you're a couch, today, you're a plant. 228 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:39,160 And think about what power we give words. I had my chair come in to observe that. And afterwards, he brought me back to his office. I was an adjunct. 229 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:44,000 He brought me back to his office and said, I want to hire you for full time. That's awesome. 230 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,160 And that's unfortunately, I didn't take it because I got into a PhD program at the very next month. 231 00:22:50,160 --> 00:23:00,000 It was because of those moments where I was like, yeah, I think the most important thing that Mike and I can both agree with is just having authenticity exist in the classroom. 232 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:13,200 People, especially students, I mean, even down, I mean, our lowest grade in my building is kindergarten. Students, if you're not passionate about what you're doing and you're not being authentic about it, like people see through it. 233 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:20,400 You know, like I was an ELA teacher. I've never been a big fan of math and data and analyzing it. 234 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:30,400 And I remember my first couple of years as a principal, like I felt like I need to present, you know, these immaculate slideshows with all of our assessment data to the staff. 235 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,800 They knew that I was full of it and just trying to wing my way through it. So I don't even fake it anymore. 236 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:46,280 Like I have staff members that just crave and love analyzing data. So I'll go to them. Hey, Joey, I got the winter map assessment data. 237 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,560 You want to take a look? Yes, I do. And they'll look at it. That's what their passion is. 238 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:57,480 And then we'll confer and they'll explain to me the trends they see and kind of things where we need to go. 239 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,600 And then as a team, you know, we'll present that to the staff and go from there. 240 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,680 I've learned that being the principal, I don't need to be able to do everything, right? 241 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:13,360 Like I'm human. I'm a person. Like I got my strengths and I have my areas to grow just like everyone else does. 242 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:24,240 So I'm going to utilize and rely on the experts in specific things where I'm not the expert because I know that it's not about me. 243 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,040 It's about making sure we're all the best for these kids. And I've already said that earlier, so I won't say it again. 244 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,800 But definitely delegating and also having synergy while you collaborate. 245 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,760 Yes, what makes all of us effective. 246 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:41,280 And I think that's what makes you such an effective educator as well, Mike, because you know those skills and you use that within your own school. 247 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:47,720 So thank you for mobilizing all of your educators in order to allow them to maximize their most effective needs. 248 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,920 So I want to turn also quickly to the punk rock influence. 249 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:59,520 So you are a co-host to the punk rock classrooms podcast, which has a really unique approach in providing insights onto education. 250 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:06,440 So I wanted you to tell us a little bit about what the series is and what can listeners gain by tuning into what you do. 251 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:13,360 Yes, so myself and Josh Buckley, we met five, six, seven years ago. 252 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:18,160 We were on a Twitter chat and we start talking about education and music. 253 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,400 And he was in a punk rock band growing up. 254 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,640 I grew up skateboarding and listening to punk rock. 255 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:32,640 Our conversations start to lead towards these connections we've seen in the punk rock culture growing up and experiencing it with education. 256 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,040 And next thing you know, we're like, hey, let's you want to start a podcast? 257 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:47,640 And so we started a podcast with the goal of taking these punk rock ethos, you know, passion, unity, DIY, 258 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:53,760 is the three main tenets and kind of showing the correlation they have in education. 259 00:25:53,760 --> 00:26:00,720 For example, like passing the mic, like if you go to a punk rock or a hardcore show, it's usually in a small club. 260 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:09,160 And the singer. Almost guaranteed every time you go to one of these shows is going to turn the mic to the crowd and have the crowd sing the lyrics. 261 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:16,080 And they're all part of it. So we tie that to student voice and student leadership and passing the mic to our kids. 262 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:21,400 We don't need to be the sage on a stage in a classroom, like let the kids lead the lesson, let the kids. 263 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,480 It's their learning, right? When we're at a concert or a show is fans. 264 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,080 It's our show, our experience. 265 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,640 So there so we draw like all these connections and obviously we go into much more detail. 266 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,360 Each episode is about a half hour. 267 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:40,200 Punk rock's always been about word of mouth, relationships, support, doing things minimally. 268 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,760 And that's what we try to bring to educators. 269 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:50,360 Like you don't need all of these funds and budgets and the fancy gadgets that we get emailed from companies every day trying to sell us something. 270 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:55,160 You've got everything within you in your building with the colleagues you have. 271 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,480 I'm thinking, I mean, it might be harder at the elementary level, but maybe not. 272 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:05,000 But I know that one thing that we should definitely do is put a lot more agency on the students on learning. 273 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,680 And by that, what I mean is that when I walk into some of my lessons, it's like, I can't believe I have to teach this again. 274 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,960 I just saw it 16 weeks ago. I don't want to talk about research methods again. 275 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,080 I don't want to have to talk about Jonas and the giver again. 276 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,360 I'll sit everyone around in the circle and I'll say, let's keep the conversation fresh. 277 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:26,920 Tell me something that you took away from the reading that I've never heard before. 278 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,960 And they did. I mean, a student just said last week for our fans and The Giver, like, "Professor Weisler, 279 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:38,200 do you realize that it must have taken a very emotional reaction to get emotions away from that whole society?" 280 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,640 And it's like, I've never heard that one. 281 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:46,400 And I taught the giver, I taught the giver all my years as a teacher and I've never had someone respond that way. 282 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,320 That's amazing. Exactly. 283 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:54,920 So I use my same books because I no longer teach them, but I facilitate them and my students teach me. 284 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,000 And that's what keeps it so fresh. So yes, and we pass the mic to the students. 285 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,160 That's so important because it holds them that much more accountable for their learning. 286 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:08,160 So I'm so glad you have a platform that advocates for that same type of agency as well. 287 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,600 And I wanted to also ask one more question or two more questions actually for your work as a principal. 288 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:20,440 I know that there's a lot of our listeners who are probably tuning in that could be on the verge of feeling that sense of burnout. 289 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,480 What advice can you give to educators in terms of how to avoid their burnout and still hold on to the passion? 290 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,160 It's tough because we all face it, even myself face it. 291 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:37,920 The things that I always do when I'm facing those burnout times, because it's always it's going to come for everybody. 292 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:43,120 One, and I know it's cliche, but we have to take care of ourselves. 293 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:50,240 Find your passion that you can devote 30 minutes a day just for you. 294 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,040 Rely on your colleagues, you know, those relationships. 295 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,000 We've all got to have someone in our building. 296 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,760 And I have a couple of staff members who I know that I can go to, even though I'm the principal, I'm their boss. 297 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:10,760 I can go into their classroom, shut the door, and I can vent to them about what I'm going through or what I'm facing or where I'm at. 298 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,080 And they'll help work with me through it. 299 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:20,200 I think it's important to have people support you outside of education that you can vent to and rant to. 300 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:28,160 Some of the best solutions I get for a problem come from family and friends that aren't in education, 301 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:34,560 that from an outside perspective are able to give me like this lens that I never even thought of. 302 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,480 Every storm runs out of rain. 303 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,160 Yes. 304 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:43,200 And that quote struck me so strongly where I'm like, it's so true. 305 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,840 And another one I keep seeing is, congratulations, you've made it through 100% of your worst days, right? 306 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:55,960 Like, just know it's going to pass, but don't just hunker down in a dark room of your house and stick to yourself. 307 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,040 Like, there's people out there that are going to be there for your support. 308 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:07,480 So I know it's easier said than done, but sometimes we just have to get out of that comfort zone and ask for help. 309 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,320 I would agree that there's definitely a place for colleagues who may want to just keep their head down at work, 310 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,960 do the work with their fellowmen, have their people somewhere else. 311 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:25,320 But I can say that when I was teaching middle school, I mean, I had a leadership team that would turn any little stovetop fire into a house fire very quickly. 312 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,800 And it was a very, very unpleasant experience for me. 313 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:35,520 And everywhere else, I was able to find my fire departments where if there is any flame that would pop up anywhere, 314 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,760 they would just take their hoses and it would be gone instantly. 315 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:46,760 And I got my support people by just being vulnerable by saying, hey, I'm learning and I want to use you as a mentor to help me feel supported. 316 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,600 And they did it with so much ease. 317 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:54,760 And I'm also quite lucky because when I taught at the university level for a little bit of it, I taught back in my alma mater. 318 00:30:54,760 --> 00:31:00,600 So it was very easy just to go back to my own mentors from my sophomore year of college and say, hey, I'm your colleague now. 319 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,360 Let's work as colleagues. 320 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,240 And it was very easy to get that kind of support. 321 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,840 But I would agree with Mike that we need to fund our people. 322 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,440 We need to have our fire departments. 323 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,600 And that way we can put out each other's fires to the point that very few of them can get started. 324 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:22,640 And I'm also I have to shout out to Kathleen Marks, my own boss at St. John's University, who is she talks to me like a friend and there's never any judgment. 325 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,920 And if I ever have any questions, I know with ease that I can always go to her for anything. 326 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,080 And it's great. It's awesome. 327 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,720 A boss who's like that and to work for someone like that. 328 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,160 And I'm stealing I'm stealing your fire, your fire department analogy. 329 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,960 I love that. That's awesome. 330 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:42,200 What would you want our listeners to take away as what we would consider to be the secret sauce in education? 331 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,600 There's two that I want to say, I think and I think we we talk we touched on both of them. 332 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:52,960 I mean, number one, authenticity, and that just doesn't go for if you're in education. 333 00:31:52,960 --> 00:32:04,200 I mean, whatever field you're in, whatever wherever you're at in life, I feel like if you're not being authentically, you you're not going to be comfortable. 334 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,480 You're not going to be at your best. 335 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:14,400 And those you serve or you work with, they're not going to have that trust in you because they're going to almost see you as like a fraud. 336 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,680 Like, well, that's not how Joey is. That's not how Mike is. 337 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,800 Like, why are they being somebody they're not? 338 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:29,600 And then in turn, that's going to lead into those relationships, because if those you're with don't trust you and see you as authentic, that relationship is not going to be as strong as it could be. 339 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,960 And what's the second thing? 340 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:39,200 I think relationships like make sure you're building those relationships, make sure you're checking on people, you're there for people, you're collaborating with people. 341 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,560 So no matter what, you've got to have those relationships with people to accomplish what you're set out to do. 342 00:32:45,560 --> 00:33:00,280 I can agree that when we choose to come into life as our authentic selves, we're more than likely to find the right people who can again form that fire department and help us through those obstacles and fires that we can easily put out. 343 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,800 Well said. 344 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:13,000 So, Mike, a big thanks again for joining us today and for also sharing your unique and energizing perspective on education and your work with the Educulture Cookbook and Punk Rock Classrooms. 345 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:21,720 It shows us that meaningful culture change in schools starts with, like you said, authenticity and a commitment to valuing every individual. 346 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:29,880 So thank you again and know how grateful we are to the insights that you shared, leaving our listeners the chance to transform their own educational spaces. 347 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,160 Thank you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education podcast. 348 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,840 If today's episode inspired you or made you think differently, I'd love to hear from you. 349 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:47,600 Drop a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts and stay connected with us on the at Classroom Narratives podcast over Instagram and Facebook. 350 00:33:47,600 --> 00:34:01,120 Remember, together we can transform our scars into stars in education, one conversation at a time.