Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education Podcast, the space where education meets resilience.
I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in each episode, we dive deep into the personal stories of educators, students,
leaders, and frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities within modern education.
Whether you're just starting your teaching journey or are a seasoned professional looking for inspiration,
we'll explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent burnout, and build trauma-informed communities within our schools.
Now, let's take a seat at the front of the classroom as we get started.
Welcome back to the Classroom Narratives Podcast, everyone. I'm Dr. Joey Weisler, and in today's episode,
I'm thrilled to be welcoming Mike Earnshaw, an inspiring principal, author, and co-host of Punk Rock Classrooms Podcast.
Mike brings a fresh perspective to educational leadership by fusing the energy of punk rock with the commitment
to fostering supportive, transformative environments within our schools.
And his book, The Educulture Cookbook, is packed with "actionable recipes"
for creating collaborative and empathetic and student-centered classrooms that empower both teachers and students.
And Mike's work has also been a reminder that the right culture is the key ingredient in the recipe for educational success.
So, Mike, welcome to the podcast. We're so happy to have you with us today.
Thanks, Joey. I'm excited to be here. It's been, as we talked before, the start. It's been a while in the making.
I'm stoked to be here.
Absolutely. So the first time Mike and I connected was over Twitter, actually, through the teacher Twitter network, if you will.
Right.
Back in 2022, and I reached out to Mike because I picked up his book, The Educulture Cookbook,
which serves as almost like a cookbook of recipes, and Mike will tell us in his own words what that text is as well.
But there is a recipe that he offered in his text called Struggle Island.
And in teaching Struggle Island within my own classes, it requires the audiences, which in this case was my own students,
to lower their guards, be vulnerable, and share things that they may be struggling with at that time.
So in teaching my first semester freshmen, we do that Struggle Island activity about three weeks into the semester once everyone's gotten acclimated
and have been a little bit more in tuned to their own concerns with their adjustment.
So my college students share their concerns anonymously, and then their peers work to offer insight that support each other throughout the remaining four months of that term.
And I got that idea from Mike's book.
So I reached out to him just to say, hey, I see this and I'm using it.
What more can I learn?
And we've been back and forth at it for about two and a half years because of that.
So a shout out to Mike for offering this incredible text that has served educators so well.
So my first question for Mike is, what did you choose education?
And when was that moment that you realized that as a school leader, you were in the perfect place?
What made me choose education?
Yeah, so I don't have that story where a lot of people are always like, oh, I knew I was going to be a teacher since I was five years old and played school with my siblings and cousins.
Like that wasn't me, right?
I was always good at school.
I was an honor student growing up.
And then it was when I got to like eighth grade in high school, specifically, where I realized I started going down like probably the wrong path and grades started falling.
But it was there was a couple teachers as a high school student, Coach K.
And I had him for history as a sophomore.
He taught a freshman history class, but I had failed out the first time I ever received a failing grade in a course my freshman year.
So I had to retake it as a sophomore and Senor Sullivan.
I took eight years of Spanish.
Don't ask me to speak it.
But those two, you know, there was a point where they kind of pulled me in one day and they knew what I was up to in the parking lot.
They could see the bloodshot eyes and they they kind of just, you know, instead of like sending me to the office where I could be disciplined or in trouble, they more talked to me and said, you've got so much potential.
Like they saw past the mohawk.
They saw past the skateboard.
They saw past all of the exterior shell that I had on expressing myself and said, you're throwing your life away.
And you would think at that point, I'm like, I'm going to be a teacher, you know, but no, like I turned myself around, finished high school successfully and started college.
And I did not go away to school just because my mom and I had said, if I went away, I'm going to go right down that same path.
I was going down.
So I stayed at home.
I worked and it was probably about a semester, two semesters in.
And I just was taking courses, you know, because my mom and I agreed if I took time off, I never would go back.
And I think it was one time I was sitting there like in the courtyard between classes and I was like, you know what?
I kept thinking those two teachers that like stuck with me.
And I was like, you know, I'm going to go into education because they had an impact on me and projected my life in a different path.
I wouldn't be here without them.
So that's kind of how I landed in education.
If that answers your question.
It does.
I just had to chuckle because of that non-traditional story of I remember my first year teaching, I just got I felt really touched at one moment and I had to admit to my classes.
I said, you know, the first time I ever taught this lesson was to my stuffed animals a couple of years ago.
And like it's a like, Mr. Weiser, you're a grown man, please.
And I started to also notice this.
I think about this a lot because I was the teacher's pet no matter what.
Like it was like competitive.
Like if I did not feel myself as teachers, I would just try harder because I went over every teacher.
And because of that, in my first year teaching, when I had students that just outright hated me for whatever their reasons were and did not want to build that partnership with me, there was a big gap in my knowledge because of that.
And I think sometimes students who really have that human struggle when they're growing up in middle school or high school can really connect to those troubling students much more when they are in that teacher role, because they can think about what's in their minds.
It's almost like the police catch the criminal has to think like the criminal sort of thing.
I couldn't do that because I couldn't approach the mindset for those students.
So that was another reason why I was probably told that I was the teacher, the new teacher who struggled the most his first year in my new school, because I just couldn't vibe and get through to those students who needed me the most.
And I think about that quite a bit.
And you also talk about in the Educultural Cookbook that you had a fascination with culinary arts.
So how did you blend between those paths and make them merge in any way?
So I always say if I didn't go into education, I would have went to culinary school.
I remember it was seventh grade.
We had Home-Ec in my middle school and where most of the male students didn't want to embrace a Home-Ec class.
I loved it.
You know, I mean, it's essentially it should be called life skills, right, because you're learning laundry, hygiene, cooking.
And it's when we did the cooking unit that I really was like, wow, you know, my boys relied on my mom to do my cooking at that point.
And I kind of was got to experience and we were making grilled cheeses and seeing all these different ways and approaches, kids are making their grilled cheeses.
So I kind of would start experimenting and doing things at home and helping cook in the kitchen.
And then when I got into high school, I started off as a busboy, then became a dishwasher and worked my way up to like headline chef in this restaurant I was at.
And I loved it.
And essentially, I think that's almost kind of like what a lot of the skills I learned when I was "running the kitchen" and being the one that everything would fall back on those shifts.
I worked, you know, it set me up for my role as a school principal, like in leadership, because, you know, you're still I was still managing everyone below me, working with the waitresses.
You know, it's like having your teachers and your support staff and all of the, you know, the customers are your students, your consumers.
So it really had a great parallel.
But it was one of those things where he's going back and forth and I kind of was like, you know, I'm going to I'm going to pursue this teaching thing because it just was those two teachers that just kept sticking with me.
So I always if I ever were to go back for a second career at this point, which I'm not because I'm old now.
And like, so I would be if I had a chance to transition or switch would be to that.
I think there's a lot of similarities, but there's a lot of differences and there's just and it's there's different challenges that are exciting.
But there's a lot of challenges that are the same of what I'm experiencing now.
So definitely. And I think we need to take a moment just to acknowledge the positive teachers that we've had in our lives.
So to all of our teachers who are listening, just a reminder that everything you do makes a difference.
And I thought about this last night, if I were to be asked the question, like, what difference does the work we do make? The truth is that we may never know.
Right. It exists in somebody somewhere.
And I think that's something that I still have to get used to very often, especially when my imposter syndrome tells me otherwise, which is pretty frequently.
Right. And so I wanted to go ahead and turn our attention to the edu culture cookbook.
So you talk a lot about creating an edu culture in terms of practical approaches that bring empathy and collaboration back into the classroom setting.
So I want to know if you could talk about some of the key ingredients that you talk about in your text that can help support other educators who may be listening.
So my whole life, I've always been about relationships, being honest and open and supportive with whether it was my friends or coworkers or family.
And when I was a teacher, it was the same thing.
I was the teacher that I would rather go and collaborate and talk with my colleagues during a plan time or lunch than actually sit down and like lesson plan, which in a sense, we were lesson planning because we did a ton of cross-curricular units.
I was a middle school ELA teacher.
So we were a very collaborative team.
And so when I became my actual building principal, this is I'm in the middle of my 10th year at the same campus.
Congratulations. Thank you.
I kind of for some reason thought my first couple of years, like I needed to do the stereotypical principal thing, like come in, make phone calls, look at emails and spreadsheets and then make my rounds around the school.
So people see me maybe pop in the lunchroom once or twice a week.
And I was miserable.
And I was at this at this point, I was like early 30s, mid 30s.
I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is it.
I'm not going to be able to sustain this the rest of my career.
Like, this is boring.
Like, I'm not getting the same fulfillment from when I was a classroom teacher or even an assistant principal.
So I went to a conference.
The NASSP conference was in Chicago, which is 20, 30 minutes from where I live.
And I kind of saw all these principals doing things out of the box.
Right. And their main thing was always relationships.
And I was like, why am I not leading the way?
Like, I'm I'm being an imposter these first couple of years.
Right. So I started to put my focus back on to what I do best.
And that's working with staff and listening with them and supporting them and being there.
You know, I adopted the mobile desk where I'm in the hallways in the classrooms.
You know, I'm barely in the front office.
And I saw the culture positively start to transform.
We started doing a lot of things with faculty meetings where, you know how it is,
all the third grade teachers come and they sit at the same table.
The social studies department sits together at a faculty meeting, which is fine.
But we would always get up and do some kind of team building activity.
But there's always like a method to it, like a professional development piece to what I was bringing.
And it wasn't just to have fun and laugh with each other.
And when we started to implement these things and doing these things out of the box and me taking risks
by starting the blog and starting a podcast and putting myself out there,
you could see the staff start to do the same.
And the vibe in the building just started to become just more positive.
People looked like they enjoyed coming to work.
People told me they looked forward to staying for a faculty meeting after school, which is unheard of, right?
Like who wants to say, oh, yeah, I can't wait to sit here for an hour or two hours after school.
But people looked forward and they didn't know it was coming.
And we were able to accomplish so many amazing things.
And one of the things that I'm just going to shameless plug for our campus is right before the pandemic in Illinois,
you know, you take your state assessment and then the state has these metrics and they have this line that every year shifts.
So you never know what the threshold is going to be.
But before the pandemic, our school was like three points away from this line for our CWD students, children with disabilities.
So because one subgroup didn't make the state assessment benchmark, we were labeled as targeted.
And then the pandemic hit. Then we didn't take the state assessment.
And then they brought the state assessment back. But it's just practice.
It's not going to count for anything. So no matter how you do, it doesn't matter.
It's just a C. So we kind of got stuck in this targeted status for a long time.
And we never focused on that. Like it never was like, hey, we need to teach the test and get out of here.
We maintained our relationships. We maintain that collaboration and taking risks.
And not only last year did we test the first time we were able to actually have a count where it came to or two years ago.
I'm sorry. We took the IAR assessment, fell in the commendable status where every subgroup met that benchmark.
So it was a weight lifted like off the left shoulder of me.
Then we had because in Illinois, you have to do it for two years till you're really considered commendable.
So then about a month ago, less than a month ago, the results from last year's assessment came out.
Once again, all of our subgroups made that benchmark commendable again.
So we are no longer in that status. We're no longer receiving the extra funds from the state.
And it's funny because people will ask me, colleagues will ask me in the other buildings in our district that have fallen into that same category that we used to be in.
Like, what did you do? I'm like, we built relationships and supported each other.
Like, well, no, but really, like, really, what did you do? I'm like, I mean, that's it.
Like, you know, I'm not a micromanager.
Like, you're employed here because I trust you're going to do your job.
But education could feel like you're on an island in your room by yourself or in your office by yourself.
So it's important to know you've got experts all in your building.
And when you're having one of those days or you're struggling, there's a plethora of people you can go to to rely on.
And then vice versa, they're going to come to you when their time comes that they need that assistance.
Can you give an example of one of the exercises that you would use during your professional developments for listeners to hear about?
Yeah, so I know you talked about Struggle Island, so I'm not going to talk about that one.
Oh, man, I got two that are my favorite. But I think I'll go with Flippin' Flapjacks.
This one, I brought all of our staff to the gym and I had brought in the mobile cart of butcher paper.
I told everyone before we came into the gym, you need to pick a team that is representative of all of the grade levels and departments in our building.
So you need to have a kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, a specialist, you know, art, music or PE teacher, a parapro.
And I didn't, you know, I wanted to split the group up.
I said, pick a captain and the captain needs to come over and take a piece of butcher paper that everyone can stand on, your whole team.
So some people took a piece just big enough for the entire team to stand on.
Some people took a really big piece. They had extra slack coming off each end.
I had everyone draw a line on one side.
I said, the goal is you need to, as a team, without stepping on the gym floor, flip your paper over completely.
So what happened was we had about seven teams and as people were finishing, they would start to kind of funnel around other teams.
Now, not one team did the same approach.
I had people trying to like shuffle it with their feet.
I had people on top of other shoulders, even though I told them don't get on each other's backs, have less feet on the paper to try to flip it.
So there's all these different approaches.
And as a team finished, they would kind of gather around the other team still working.
And we got to the point where there was one team left and the entire staff is around them.
And the beauty was not one person told them, hey, here's what we did.
They looked at their approach and guided them through what they were already doing.
So then we had a discussion about there was not one way everyone accomplished the goal and everyone accomplished it at different times.
Some shorter, some took longer and everyone had a different approach.
So what about our lessons in school?
What about our students?
They're learning every kid's going to hit.
You know, you always see that that meme about the popcorn, you know, every Colonel pops at different times.
Every kid's going to get there, but it might take a little bit longer.
It might take a different approach.
And it was very eye opening for even some veteran staff to be like experiencing that kind of firsthand.
You got to maybe readjust and rethink your approach to to teach in the kids.
And it makes me think about like I'm a big fan of common planning.
Controversially, I'm not a fan of common alignment.
I do not believe that everybody needs to be teaching page 56 of the Monkey's Paw on Monday and page 57 on Tuesday, because nobody knows our students better than the people on the front lines with them.
And I think an exercise like that also shows that, like you said, you hired your teachers had a trust.
So there should be an element of authority that goes in to how curriculum should be delivered to maximize their student outcomes.
And when we think about that, what can we say about our leaders who are listening today who really may try and favor the standards or the test over relationship building?
I mean, the standards and tests are important. And if I told you that I never looked and analyze them and did work to understand them better, it'd be a lie.
It is. But I intertwine it and embed it with the relationship building, because if you don't have a staff that trusts you, that knows you support them,
regardless of whether they're being successful or they're struggling, people aren't going to take risks. People aren't going to get out there and be their best because there's almost like this fear of failure.
And we all have it, no matter how often we get out of our comfort zones, no matter how often we take risks and accomplish tough things, there's always going to be some inherent fear that we have.
But if we can kind of showcase as a school community, as a staff, as a team, that we're all here working for the same goal, which is to empower our kids to know that their voice is going to go out there and make a difference when they leave us,
that's going to eliminate a lot of that fear. My sister principal and I had all of our staff do what we call out of the comfort zone lessons, where we said, we want you to just do something you've always wanted to do, but you've always been afraid to do it.
We give you the green light, we support you, let us know what you need, and let's just try it.
And it turned out that 90% of the staff who were up for evaluations that time of the year chose these out of your comfort zone lessons as their evaluation, which
slept that bespoke volumes because they trusted me and my sister principal, they saw us taking risks and putting ourselves out there. So they trusted that we weren't going to let them fail. Like if it backfired, I'm going to say, Joey, hey, I think we both know that this was a flop.
Let's reschedule, do something else. But surprisingly, and actually it's not that surprising to me knowing our staff, none of these evaluations, none of these lessons failed. They were all a huge success.
And it just helped to open that door to like in the future, like, look, you don't need us to say we're doing something you've always wanted to do. Just do it now. Do it and see what happens. If it doesn't work, just reevaluate, readjust and do something different next time.
I love it. I love that story so much because my first year teaching, I really tried to be that innovative, pedagogist, if you will.
And I remember when it was time for my evaluation, I was that first year probationary teacher. So I had a lot at risk.
My colleagues who knew the way that I preferred to instruct said to me, listen, for one hour this year, just put on the horse and pony show and be who you need to be for those administrators.
And the whole thing felt so fake. Yeah. And it was not my favorite evaluation because I think everyone saw that there is such a lack of authenticity in that classroom that day.
And I became a professor whenever I had like one day we were talking about identities with reading a book and taken from the center of speaking and communication, I believe.
I had the students walk around with clothes pins and pin these different labels and identities on each other, like these arbitrary household items like today, you're a couch, today, you're a plant.
And think about what power we give words. I had my chair come in to observe that. And afterwards, he brought me back to his office. I was an adjunct.
He brought me back to his office and said, I want to hire you for full time. That's awesome.
And that's unfortunately, I didn't take it because I got into a PhD program at the very next month.
It was because of those moments where I was like, yeah, I think the most important thing that Mike and I can both agree with is just having authenticity exist in the classroom.
People, especially students, I mean, even down, I mean, our lowest grade in my building is kindergarten. Students, if you're not passionate about what you're doing and you're not being authentic about it, like people see through it.
You know, like I was an ELA teacher. I've never been a big fan of math and data and analyzing it.
And I remember my first couple of years as a principal, like I felt like I need to present, you know, these immaculate slideshows with all of our assessment data to the staff.
They knew that I was full of it and just trying to wing my way through it. So I don't even fake it anymore.
Like I have staff members that just crave and love analyzing data. So I'll go to them. Hey, Joey, I got the winter map assessment data.
You want to take a look? Yes, I do. And they'll look at it. That's what their passion is.
And then we'll confer and they'll explain to me the trends they see and kind of things where we need to go.
And then as a team, you know, we'll present that to the staff and go from there.
I've learned that being the principal, I don't need to be able to do everything, right?
Like I'm human. I'm a person. Like I got my strengths and I have my areas to grow just like everyone else does.
So I'm going to utilize and rely on the experts in specific things where I'm not the expert because I know that it's not about me.
It's about making sure we're all the best for these kids. And I've already said that earlier, so I won't say it again.
But definitely delegating and also having synergy while you collaborate.
Yes, what makes all of us effective.
And I think that's what makes you such an effective educator as well, Mike, because you know those skills and you use that within your own school.
So thank you for mobilizing all of your educators in order to allow them to maximize their most effective needs.
So I want to turn also quickly to the punk rock influence.
So you are a co-host to the punk rock classrooms podcast, which has a really unique approach in providing insights onto education.
So I wanted you to tell us a little bit about what the series is and what can listeners gain by tuning into what you do.
Yes, so myself and Josh Buckley, we met five, six, seven years ago.
We were on a Twitter chat and we start talking about education and music.
And he was in a punk rock band growing up.
I grew up skateboarding and listening to punk rock.
Our conversations start to lead towards these connections we've seen in the punk rock culture growing up and experiencing it with education.
And next thing you know, we're like, hey, let's you want to start a podcast?
And so we started a podcast with the goal of taking these punk rock ethos, you know, passion, unity, DIY,
is the three main tenets and kind of showing the correlation they have in education.
For example, like passing the mic, like if you go to a punk rock or a hardcore show, it's usually in a small club.
And the singer. Almost guaranteed every time you go to one of these shows is going to turn the mic to the crowd and have the crowd sing the lyrics.
And they're all part of it. So we tie that to student voice and student leadership and passing the mic to our kids.
We don't need to be the sage on a stage in a classroom, like let the kids lead the lesson, let the kids.
It's their learning, right? When we're at a concert or a show is fans.
It's our show, our experience.
So there so we draw like all these connections and obviously we go into much more detail.
Each episode is about a half hour.
Punk rock's always been about word of mouth, relationships, support, doing things minimally.
And that's what we try to bring to educators.
Like you don't need all of these funds and budgets and the fancy gadgets that we get emailed from companies every day trying to sell us something.
You've got everything within you in your building with the colleagues you have.
I'm thinking, I mean, it might be harder at the elementary level, but maybe not.
But I know that one thing that we should definitely do is put a lot more agency on the students on learning.
And by that, what I mean is that when I walk into some of my lessons, it's like, I can't believe I have to teach this again.
I just saw it 16 weeks ago. I don't want to talk about research methods again.
I don't want to have to talk about Jonas and the giver again.
I'll sit everyone around in the circle and I'll say, let's keep the conversation fresh.
Tell me something that you took away from the reading that I've never heard before.
And they did. I mean, a student just said last week for our fans and The Giver, like, "Professor Weisler,
do you realize that it must have taken a very emotional reaction to get emotions away from that whole society?"
And it's like, I've never heard that one.
And I taught the giver, I taught the giver all my years as a teacher and I've never had someone respond that way.
That's amazing. Exactly.
So I use my same books because I no longer teach them, but I facilitate them and my students teach me.
And that's what keeps it so fresh. So yes, and we pass the mic to the students.
That's so important because it holds them that much more accountable for their learning.
So I'm so glad you have a platform that advocates for that same type of agency as well.
And I wanted to also ask one more question or two more questions actually for your work as a principal.
I know that there's a lot of our listeners who are probably tuning in that could be on the verge of feeling that sense of burnout.
What advice can you give to educators in terms of how to avoid their burnout and still hold on to the passion?
It's tough because we all face it, even myself face it.
The things that I always do when I'm facing those burnout times, because it's always it's going to come for everybody.
One, and I know it's cliche, but we have to take care of ourselves.
Find your passion that you can devote 30 minutes a day just for you.
Rely on your colleagues, you know, those relationships.
We've all got to have someone in our building.
And I have a couple of staff members who I know that I can go to, even though I'm the principal, I'm their boss.
I can go into their classroom, shut the door, and I can vent to them about what I'm going through or what I'm facing or where I'm at.
And they'll help work with me through it.
I think it's important to have people support you outside of education that you can vent to and rant to.
Some of the best solutions I get for a problem come from family and friends that aren't in education,
that from an outside perspective are able to give me like this lens that I never even thought of.
Every storm runs out of rain.
Yes.
And that quote struck me so strongly where I'm like, it's so true.
And another one I keep seeing is, congratulations, you've made it through 100% of your worst days, right?
Like, just know it's going to pass, but don't just hunker down in a dark room of your house and stick to yourself.
Like, there's people out there that are going to be there for your support.
So I know it's easier said than done, but sometimes we just have to get out of that comfort zone and ask for help.
I would agree that there's definitely a place for colleagues who may want to just keep their head down at work,
do the work with their fellowmen, have their people somewhere else.
But I can say that when I was teaching middle school, I mean, I had a leadership team that would turn any little stovetop fire into a house fire very quickly.
And it was a very, very unpleasant experience for me.
And everywhere else, I was able to find my fire departments where if there is any flame that would pop up anywhere,
they would just take their hoses and it would be gone instantly.
And I got my support people by just being vulnerable by saying, hey, I'm learning and I want to use you as a mentor to help me feel supported.
And they did it with so much ease.
And I'm also quite lucky because when I taught at the university level for a little bit of it, I taught back in my alma mater.
So it was very easy just to go back to my own mentors from my sophomore year of college and say, hey, I'm your colleague now.
Let's work as colleagues.
And it was very easy to get that kind of support.
But I would agree with Mike that we need to fund our people.
We need to have our fire departments.
And that way we can put out each other's fires to the point that very few of them can get started.
And I'm also I have to shout out to Kathleen Marks, my own boss at St. John's University, who is she talks to me like a friend and there's never any judgment.
And if I ever have any questions, I know with ease that I can always go to her for anything.
And it's great. It's awesome.
A boss who's like that and to work for someone like that.
And I'm stealing I'm stealing your fire, your fire department analogy.
I love that. That's awesome.
What would you want our listeners to take away as what we would consider to be the secret sauce in education?
There's two that I want to say, I think and I think we we talk we touched on both of them.
I mean, number one, authenticity, and that just doesn't go for if you're in education.
I mean, whatever field you're in, whatever wherever you're at in life, I feel like if you're not being authentically, you you're not going to be comfortable.
You're not going to be at your best.
And those you serve or you work with, they're not going to have that trust in you because they're going to almost see you as like a fraud.
Like, well, that's not how Joey is. That's not how Mike is.
Like, why are they being somebody they're not?
And then in turn, that's going to lead into those relationships, because if those you're with don't trust you and see you as authentic, that relationship is not going to be as strong as it could be.
And what's the second thing?
I think relationships like make sure you're building those relationships, make sure you're checking on people, you're there for people, you're collaborating with people.
So no matter what, you've got to have those relationships with people to accomplish what you're set out to do.
I can agree that when we choose to come into life as our authentic selves, we're more than likely to find the right people who can again form that fire department and help us through those obstacles and fires that we can easily put out.
Well said.
So, Mike, a big thanks again for joining us today and for also sharing your unique and energizing perspective on education and your work with the Educulture Cookbook and Punk Rock Classrooms.
It shows us that meaningful culture change in schools starts with, like you said, authenticity and a commitment to valuing every individual.
So thank you again and know how grateful we are to the insights that you shared, leaving our listeners the chance to transform their own educational spaces.
Thank you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education podcast.
If today's episode inspired you or made you think differently, I'd love to hear from you.
Drop a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts and stay connected with us on the at Classroom Narratives podcast over Instagram and Facebook.
Remember, together we can transform our scars into stars in education, one conversation at a time.