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Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education podcast, the space where education

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meets resilience. I'm Joey Weisler and in each episode we dive deep into the personal stories

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of educators, students, leaders, and frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities

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of modern education. Whether you're just starting your teaching journey or are a seasoned professional

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looking for inspiration, we'll explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent burnout,

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and build trauma-informed communities in our schools. Now let's take a seat at the front of

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the classroom and get started. Welcome back to our podcast. Today I'm incredibly honored to welcome

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Paula Reed who spent over 32 years as an educator at Columbine High School. Paula is an advocate

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for trauma-informed education and her decades of experience at Columbine have shaped her unique

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perspective on resilience and healing within the school system. Her journey from surviving the

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tragic events of April 20th, 1999 at Columbine High School to becoming a voice for change and

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mental health awareness in education has been inspiring not only to her students but the entire

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educational community. And Paula I wanted to begin by not only thanking you tonight for joining us

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but also for continuing to share your story of strength, advocacy, and hope. Welcome to the

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podcast. Thank you. I'm glad to be here. It's great to have you. So Paula I wanted to begin by

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asking you to share some memories of Columbine's home of Littleton, Colorado from before 1999.

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You began your tenure at Columbine in 1986. What were those opening 13 years like? So Littleton in

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1999 was I would say very sheltered. There was a sense of a very deep sense of safety. It certainly

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never occurred to me that we would be facing a school shooting. It was fairly affluent and

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heavily evangelical Christian. I was at the time the speech and debate coach. That's what I was

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hired to do in addition to teaching sort of garden variety English when I started in 86.

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I had a large speech team which was not necessarily common among all schools but very large,

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anywhere from 60 to 90 kids. And we were a very successful speech team so we were kind of a

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powerhouse. I came into a program that was that strong and was expected to keep it that way

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which I worked very hard to do. To sort of give you a little bit of an idea, when I was first there

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in the late 80s there was an accreditation process that required schools to have people come in from

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the outside and look around and sort of give your school ideas of where their strengths were and

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where their weaknesses were. And one of the things that they pointed out was that Columbine was

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really exclusively a college preparatory high school. But we had some kids that were not college

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bound and we weren't serving those kids. So it was in the late 1980s that we started the ACE program,

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Alternative Cooperative Education, that was for those kids that were not college bound

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and were specifically identified as at risk for dropping out before they graduated.

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And in time, in the late 1990s, I would go on to teach in that program as well as coaching speech

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and debate. So I was doing ACE and speech and debate and sort of garden variety English all

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at the same time in 98-99. But even if you came into the ACE class, which those are considered

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at risk kids, they were pretty much well behaved. I mean, there were occasionally issues with them,

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but they were really nice kids. They just, you know, school wasn't their cup of tea,

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but they weren't rough. There was nothing rough about the kids that we had. That's not to say

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that they hadn't experienced trauma in their lives and that kind of thing, but it was just a very

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warm and supportive environment. We were a family. We were already a very tight knit school before

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the shootings happened and probably a lot tighter even after. I had a wonderful career there. I

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could not have asked for a better place to work. And that was true when I started there in 1986.

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And it was just as true when I retired in 2018. That just didn't change. They were great kids

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and great families. You in particular have been an incredible advocate for the healing of others.

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You came and spoke to those in Parkland after our tragedy. And we thank you for all that you've

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done to help us through our grief as well and navigating that type of emotional discourse.

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And I wanted to know other than Columbine, what other types of events really made you feel

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inspired to help others through their grief journeys? You know, it's something that I've

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always had an aptitude for. I don't know. I can tell you that when I was 10 years old,

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my 11-year-old best friend died of brain cancer. And our parents did not shield us from what was

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happening. She knew she was dying. I knew she was dying. We could ask questions. We could talk to

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each other about it. I was there hours before she died. I really grew up with the idea that

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it was okay to talk about grief and to talk about death and to talk about those things.

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So even in my first year at Columbine, when I had a student die by suicide, that was something I

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really felt called to help my students process and get through. And some teachers are comfortable

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with that and some teachers aren't. And that's just how it is. And there's not a right and a

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wrong. If you're not comfortable with it, you're not comfortable with it. And you're just going to

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traumatize yourself and everybody else if you try to make yourself do something that is just not

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in your wheelhouse. But for me, that's never been true. I've never been uncomfortable dealing with

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that. Now, once you get into the range of mass trauma, mass grief, it's a different ball game,

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but everything I think that had come before it left me better prepared than I might have been

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otherwise. Thank you so much for sharing that. And one thing that you've noticed is that there are

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different types of responses that we carry when it comes to grief. And again, some teachers are very

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open and communicating that to their students and others are not. And one thing that I wanted to

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think about is how we really try to use classrooms to separate that binary of academics and emotions.

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And it's a lot easier for us to try and sanitize those wounds, even in classes like English,

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that could use pathways such as literature to invite those in through some ways. What advice

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would you have for teachers who may want to create some kind of welcoming space for those

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conversations to happen, but feel as if their academic spaces are otherwise sanitized?

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I think English teachers are in a unique position on that, as are things like art,

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things that are really about, well, the humanities, right? Human experience. And I have always,

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like the reason that I became an English teacher, I couldn't decide if I wanted to be an English

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teacher or history teacher. And I felt like I could get closer to kids and have these sort of

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deep conversations about life as an English teacher through literature. The reason that we

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read literature is to learn how to be human, to learn that we are not alone in any experience

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that we have as human beings, that others have had this experience as well. There's a teacher in the

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Catcher in the Rye who says to Holden Caulfield, you will be excited to learn that other people

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have felt what you have felt and that they have advice to offer you hundreds of years later.

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And that's very much my philosophy. So long before the shootings, that was an important thing for me

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to do with literature, is to have kids connect their personal lives to it. So I think in those

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classes, it's a very natural thing to do. Again, though, not every teacher is comfortable doing it.

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So I know many English teachers who really are only like, we're going to talk about symbolism,

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we're going to talk about story arc, we're going to talk about character development,

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and I don't want to hear about your personal life. And there's a place for that. They're going to be

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kids that don't like me as a teacher because I'm too personal about things. And they're going to

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prefer that teacher that just wants to talk about symbolism. So I'm very hesitant to say that we all

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have to be the same or do the same things. But I think there is space if that is something that

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you're interested in. I know that there were math and science teachers who made space for that

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after the shooting. I don't know that that stayed there. But I also think that no matter what your

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discipline, if you are the kind of teacher who wants to connect to kids personally, then you

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will do that. You will notice the kid who walks in one day with their head down and isn't participating,

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and you're going to walk over and you're going to kneel down next to them and say, 'hey, is everything

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okay?' And they're going to discover that you are someone that they can talk to, no matter what the

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discipline is. And if you're not comfortable with that conversation, then hopefully you're at least

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going to be gentle with that kid because you're going to get the vibe that something is going on

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there. But you may not be the teacher that kneels down next to that desk. And that doesn't make you

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a bad teacher. One thing that I have to come to terms with after the tragedies here in Parkland

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is just trying to step back and, as you say, just acknowledge and understand to have a greater

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vision as to what's really going on in front of my classrooms. Like if a student walks in with their

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head down, it's not, 'why are they being this way today?' , but 'how can I help them because they are

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this way today?' And trying to show that additional support for what's going on within the room that

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I'm trying to read about. And based upon your dialogue so far, I wanted to ask, how can we

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really, especially as humanities-based instructors, a lot of the guests in our program so far,

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have been in those humanities spaces that are focused a lot less on the formulas and the facts

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that we give in the biology or algebra course? And with our humanities-based courses, how can we,

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as educators, really try to communicate and get through to our students without invading with their

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emotions? I think that a lot of that is that if you're in touch with your students and with the

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culture that they're living in, you can help them make those connections. Every now and then,

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somebody will say to me, for example, I don't know why we teach the Scarlet Letter anymore.

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It's old. It's completely irrelevant. And I'm like, seriously, in the day of Instagram and TikTok

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and social media, a woman standing in front of everyone she knows and being slut-shamed

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is not something that kids can identify with? Are you kidding me? That's like their whole lives

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right now. So of course you can make that connection. And when we talk about Roger

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Chillingworth in that book, and I tell students, I'm going to make you a dark promise. If it hasn't

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already happened to you, at some time in your life, someone is going to do something unforgivable to

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you. And you are going to have to decide whether or not you carry that weight for the rest of your

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life. So it's up to me, with the wisdom and the experience of years, to be able to help them

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find those connections in what they're reading. We can make those connections for kids. And then

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if they want to expound on that, they will. I've had kids come up after class and say,

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'you know that thing that you said that really connected for me, that really made a difference.'

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Literature is very timeless, and its themes also tend to repeat. Paula, you and I, the first time

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we spoke was last March, 2023. And since we communicated, I built an entire literature-based

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curriculum. It's my favorite class. You helped me pick out all the books, and it's phenomenal.

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It's now my new favorite class is each ever. The books that we put together are themed on silence and

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vocality. And one of the reasons why we're recording this podcast tonight is in part so

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my students can hear about our conversation when they now go back and connect to our books,

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because they will be hearing this for some of their assignments. And the text that we've looked at

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this semester and thinking about how characters either find a voice or lose a voice is in Speak

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by Laurie Halse Anderson. You recommended to me specifically The Hate U Give on social justice

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and blame. I've also included Push by Sapphire, and I'm also looking at The Giver with Lowry.

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And another text you recommended is Maus by Art Spiegelman, which we just finished this week.

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And by the time my students hear this podcast, they will have had a good sense as to how each

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of these characters have found and lost a voice before we pivot to, or rather from the Holocaust

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into Columbine, we'll be looking at your story, as well as Sue Clebold's memoir "A Mother's

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Reckoning", and then turning forward into the Parkland activism and thinking about how we can

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build this own toolkit of break the glass if needed with their own traumas. And I'm wondering

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in terms of literature and stories, what are some lessons that we can learn in the classroom

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because of the stories that we provide to our students? I think one of the really important

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things that kids got specifically from Speak is that dealing with trauma gets worse before

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it gets better. And so we looked at the symbolism of things like her cleaning up the garden and

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clearing out all the sort of gross moldy leaves and stuff that are in there. So there's room for

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growth to happen in her planting things and that that's happening as she's finding her voice and

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how sometimes trauma and pain are so heavy that they feel unspeakable. But we have to speak our

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truth in order for that healing to happen. And you see that same thing happen again in The Hate U

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Give that she has to finally find her voice and speak to make room in herself for everything,

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for her relationship with her boyfriend, for her difficulties in bridging the two worlds that she

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occupies. All of that is about finding voice and being able to do that. And Maus, both sides,

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being able to speak their truth to each other. And finally, at least for him to be able to hear his

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father to understand to some degree why his what made his father who he is, is critical to trying

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to heal that relationship. One of the things I like about Maus too is that it's not neatly

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healed at the end. And that is life. Yes, especially with that generational trauma that we're still

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trying to bridge together. And some of the things we spoke about also was when it comes to telling

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the full truth to our stories, we need to be able, one of my favorite lines that I always emphasize

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is from The Help when we have Aibelenne who says that she had to tell her truth through the stories

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that she wrote in order to make herself feel free. And I'm wondering, when you work with other grief

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activists, what are some questions that they ask you in terms, and I know when we spoke in 2023,

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you mentioned that they ask, is this normal? And what should I be feeling? And when you get questions

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like that, what belongs in that trauma toolkit that they can just break the glass if needed?

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Well, I think one of the most important things is actually not about what you put in, it's about

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what you take out. So when I talk to other survivors, and especially when it's very fresh for

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them and they're just starting out, what you are being asked to do is climb Mount Everest,

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and you have been handed a backpack full of rocks. And you've got to decide which ones you can put

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down. You've got to be able to start identifying like this is not mine to carry. And other people

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will try to make it feel like it's yours to carry, other people want you to carry their rocks.

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Students want you to carry their rocks, colleagues want you to carry their rocks. We all have grief

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and we all have trauma because we all went through this together. And you have to be able sometimes

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to say, you know what, there's no room in my backpack for this. And while we're at it, I'm

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taking this other one out and I'm putting it down too, because I just I can't carry all of this. And

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in time, there are ones that you think you can't let go of. And you'll just be so damn tired that

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you'll be like, Nope, you know what, I think I can let go of this one. I think I just have to.

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And you feel guilty. People make you feel guilty. Why aren't you carrying this weight? You should

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carry this weight. You know, no, and you don't owe anybody anything. And that's another thing that

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people will try to make you feel. We put our hearts out to you and we did all these things to help

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you get through this trauma. And it's like, that was really sweet. And that is much appreciated.

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And I didn't ask for it. And I don't owe people things for that. Somebody came up to me at Parkland

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the last time I was in and her husband was being asked to write an anniversary article. And she

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said, he just doesn't feel like it. And I'm like, well, then he doesn't have to. Those are the rules.

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I don't feel like it. I'm not gonna. So I think that that's probably the most important thing.

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Yes. So the first time Paula and I connected was in March of 2023. And during that initial dialogue,

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she referred me to several anthologies that helped me capture the voices of the human struggle,

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especially as a result from violence and mass casualty. And in reading those different stories

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that were provided to me through Paula's suggestions, I was able to come in touch with

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the different testimonies from Columbine High School or as was coined Utopia High School.

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I was able to learn the stories that came out of Sandy Hook or Pleasantville Elementary.

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And one thing I've learned from all of my research is that no one wants to be remembered for a

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tragedy. Each of the voices that I've encountered through these anthologies wants to be remembered

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for being the vehicles of resilience and finding purpose in the aftermath of traumatic onset.

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And I continue to be inspired by all of the different communities that have continued to

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share stories, be hope, channel resilience to allow others to know that rest assured,

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we are sharing, we are listening, and we are transforming our pain into purpose. So Paula,

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thank you so much for coming in to share your invaluable insights and dedication with us today.

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And your journey from survival to strength has not only shaped students and community members,

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but has inspired educators all over. And as we work towards being a trauma informed,

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supportive community, your story reminds us of the profound impacts that teachers can have

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in healing and leading change. So thank you again for being here and for all that you do.

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Thank you for joining us on the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education Podcast.

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If today's episode inspired you or made you think differently, I'd love to hear from you.

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Drop a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts and stay connected with us on the

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at Classroom Narratives Podcast over Instagram and Facebook. Remember, together we can transform

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our scars into stars in education, one conversation at a time.