Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education podcast, the space where education
meets resilience. I'm Joey Weisler, and in each episode, we dive deep into the personal stories
of educators, students, leaders, and frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities
of modern education. Whether you're just starting your teaching journey, or are a seasoned
professional looking for inspiration, we'll explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent burnout,
and build trauma-informed communities in our schools. Now, let's take a seat at the front of
the classroom and get started. Today we have an inspiring conversation lined up with Monica Langer,
who is a licensed mental health counselor from New York City. Monica has worked extensively in both
elementary and middle schools, where she has witnessed firsthand the significant impact from
the COVID-19 pandemic and what that's done for students and their mental health. And in today's
conversation, we'll want to dive into the importance of trauma-informed practices, and also thinking
about what we can do to support students who may never have access to external mental health
services. So sit tight and let's have our conversation with Monica Langer on how we can rebuild and
nurture our school environments. Welcome, Monica. Thank you. It's really great to be here today.
Great to have you. So Monica, can you start by telling us a little bit about your background
and how you became interested in this intersection of mental health and education?
So right now, I'm a licensed mental health counselor in the state of New York, and I got my
master's in counseling for mental health and wellness at NYU's Steinhardt's program. And what
got me interested in the connection between mental health and schools actually goes back to
when I was a student, middle school and high school, I had my own struggles in schools.
I felt like I learned differently, and there were some teachers that weren't really understanding
at the time of that, and mental health wasn't as much spoken about. Back when I was in high
school, it was a lot more stigmatized. So I think now just bringing mental health into the schools
has really made a difference for those kids. So how would you say that these types of changes
in learning have affected the social skills and some of the students that maybe you work with?
Yeah, that is a really, really excellent question. Back to my personal experience also with mental
health, I feel like when there wasn't as much with mental health in schools, there were kids that
were sort of under looked, and they might have struggled with more anxiety, they were worried
to even raise their hand, or they might have had low self-esteem, and they looked maybe like the
perfect student. They did well, they did what they had to do, but they still had those issues
underneath. Whereas now, when there's a school counselor, before I was a student assistance
counselor, so that's a little bit different, but even just mental health, prevention, and
even just mental health providers in the school, it really helps students learning. Let's say if a
student in the classroom had issues with doing group work, or even lacking confidence to raise
their hand, or asking teachers for help, being in a small group setting outside of the classroom to
talk about these things, and also to give kids the schools and maybe some coping skills that they can
use to then better succeed in the classroom. So I have seen that firsthand. And also working directly
with their teachers, so if they're elementary school level, their primary teacher, if they're
middle school or high school level, maybe they're, let's say if it's seventh or eighth grade team
members, that's like a group of teachers that work on a team together. So I think that's really
beneficial, working with the teachers as a team in a collaborative way to better help the student
succeed, whether it's social skills, maybe they're struggling with something at home that's affecting
their learning as well. They're dealing with a trauma or a death of a loved one. They might
have a parent who struggles with addiction. So those are things that students are carrying with
them in the classroom as well. And they really need to have that outlet to talk about these things
with a professional counselor or a school social worker. Definitely. So you talked a little bit
already about some of the different coping skills that your students have been using to better
themselves. And I'm quite curious here in some of your work, where have you noticed that these
coping skills have either changed or been useful for students in various situations who are living
in post pandemic life? Because also let's think about it, some of the students that you work with
in elementary school may have only been born around 2020, where to them putting on the face mask is
just as regular to us. It's like putting on our socks and shoes to them. That's just normal
everyday routine for them. So for some of these students who are trying to learn a new normal
after that, what are some of the coping skills that they have and how do you approach that in
your position along with others that work alongside you? So that made me think about other things. So
I wanted to talk about the other things. And then I guess some of the coping skills that I've
implemented through classroom push-ins as well as individual and group sessions. So I've noticed with
the pediatric population, especially there's been an increase in health anxiety or in particular
illness anxiety disorder post pandemic. So they might be increasingly anxious about getting sick.
They might not be able to go to classes without wearing a face mask. They also just might be
worried that they're going to catch COVID and bring COVID back to their family. And that's a really
real worry that they have because some of their really young lives, they experienced their parents
maybe getting sick. They might've lost a loved one due to COVID-19 and even going back into the
classroom around 2021 where like some of them were going in person. Some students were staying home
for the year. It was sort of like a hybrid environment. So just dealing with all of that,
that really had an impact on their anxiety levels as well as social skills. Some of them might've
developed more social anxiety symptoms because they were so used to not socializing in person.
It might've been through social media or not even socializing at all, making them when they go back
in person more socially anxious and not knowing how to socialize and talking to the other kids.
Some coping skills that at least I've implemented in classroom push-ins, I'm trying to remember what
I did. I did a lot of breathing techniques. So there was one in particular called the 5-4-3-2-1
technique. That one is a grounding technique where you look at five things that you see,
four things that you can feel. Basically you're going through the five different senses to ground
yourself if you're experiencing anxiety or if you're feeling overwhelmed. I also had students do the
butterfly hug. So this is something where you're tapping back and forth and you're also saying
positive self-affirmations like I'm safe, I'm okay to kind of also calm down those anxious and maybe
depressive feelings. And the butterfly hug could also be used in a trauma situation. So if a student
experienced trauma as well. There was one other thing that I did which this was in particular
with a classroom lesson. I had students write down on three pieces of paper what their stressors were
and they would rank their stressors from small stressors to medium stressors to large stressors
and then crumple them up and then try to juggle them and to see if they could literally juggle
the pieces of paper. And then we had a discussion on oh if you needed help juggling would you have
a friend help you juggle the pieces of paper or how would you literally juggle these stressors in
real life. And it seems like that activity really made an impact on some of the students.
Yes like it actually humanizes what they're trying to deal with. I love that. And I was also thinking
about in this conversation so far you mentioned that a lot of our students returning to the
classroom really struggle with social issues. And I know even adults about my age consistently talk
about their social anxiety that has only been increased as a result of pandemic life. How have
you noticed this with students in the elementary middle school setting? Like what does that look
like? What does social anxiety look like? And how are they working to overcome it alongside you?
Yeah I was going to say social anxiety has been really common for just the pediatric ages. And
I've noticed little things like students have been reluctant to ask their teachers for help
in certain situations and they engage in a lot of avoidant behaviors. They might hide in the bathroom
when there's a social situation or if there's a time when they're experiencing anxiety about
talking to someone important. A lot of class avoidance as well and then even the most extreme
if they have more severe social anxiety that can turn into school avoidance and school refusal
making it difficult to get the parent to get their child into the building.
Definitely. I still substitute teacher around my city on days that I just need a break from writing.
I pick up a job and I run down the street and I just have a chance to network with some of
my old teachers and their students. And I was just talking with the student a couple days ago
who was reflecting on her time back at my old middle school where I also used to work.
And she said that in her sixth grade English class the teacher used to call on people at random
and this particular student could not get along with this teacher because her social anxiety was
always so heightened in that class because she knew that she could get called on at random at any
time and she could not handle that kind of setup or that classroom. So for students that are dealing
with social pressures in the classroom who may be afraid to talk to their teachers about it,
what advice did you give them? So honestly in those situations I've actually spoken with the teacher
saying I helped advocate for the student because in other situations the teacher would call on them
because they thought that the student wasn't paying attention or they weren't engaged because
they weren't raising their hand so then they would continuously call on the student. So I think also
advocating for the student and working with the teacher as well to just let them know that there
might be some anxiety there and to kind of ease off the student a little bit that they know the
answers they're just afraid and then also working with the student maybe one-on-one on some
assertiveness skills and how important it is for students to have their own voice. Yes teachers and
mental health providers can help advocate for these students who feel like they don't have a voice but
at the end of the day giving the students to voice out their own concerns is very important.
Definitely so from what I'm hearing is that students need advocacy along with independence
there needs to be that good balance somewhere and in thinking about that one of the main issues that
we've mentioned before amongst each other in our own conversations is that there always seems to be
a lot of red tape and still a lot of stigma so we still talk about access to mental health and
mental health services in schools. What are some of the barriers that you've experienced as a mental
health counselor in your own school? There were so many students that were referred to me that I
wasn't able to see all of the students with the amount of time that I had and there were some
students that were struggling with anxiety but because it wasn't affect their learning
they weren't able to be seen. The only way that a student was able to be seen with me is if their
mental health was affecting their learning. They might not have been performing well academically
or they had attentional issues and they were getting distracted in class but if they were doing
fine academically and their mental health was still not good then they might have not been eligible
to receive the service unless if they self-referred and they might have met with me maybe
you know one time for a check-in or like you know certain self-referral check-ins but it
wouldn't have been a meeting on a regular basis. I don't think I've asked this quite yet. What
exactly are you doing now at this time because you spent a lot of time in school so what are you doing
now? So right now I'm a pediatric clinician in a medical setting and I was going to say there's a
reason why I transitioned. I loved working at the schools and I think I learned so much valuable
information but at the same time I felt like the administration didn't value me as much as a mental
health professional. There was much higher value on the teachers, the principal, the assistant principal
and no one really understood my role. It wasn't a clear-cut role so my role I was being spread
really thin. I was doing prevention activities, classroom lessons. I was also running a club
either after school or at lunchtime for students. I was providing one-on-one counseling. I was doing
lunch groups. I was doing groups group counseling so there was just a lot and it started to cause
some burnout and I really loved the counseling component. I really felt that when I was counseling
and working with students in groups or one-on-one I was making the most of an impact even though
everything else I was doing I made a huge impact but I kind of felt like for my own mental health
and burnout I wanted to go into a more set a setting where I was just doing counseling which
that's what I'm doing now. I'm working with kids in person and remotely and I'm also on my way to
get certified in cognitive behavioral therapy through the academy of cognitive therapy.
The work that you're doing is changing a lot of lives and we're very grateful for that.
If you could say one thing about how schools should look at their mental health counselor,
what would that look like? What should principals know about mental health counselors and what
should maybe other mental health counselors that are listening to this podcast who maybe
have their own sense of burnout be thinking about at this time?
I think just having more of an emphasis of appreciation and the need for mental health
support in schools and getting that support from the administration whether it's funding,
resources, the biggest thing at my last job I did not have my own office. As you know with
confidentiality everything that a student discloses is confidential unless they disclose that they
were going to hurt themselves, hurt someone else, or if they were getting abused or neglected
but I guess with schools there was a lack of resources and a lack of physical space.
At the elementary school I was working at I was actually sharing an office with two other teachers.
I wasn't at the elementary school every day so the day that I was there I had for the most part my
own room but then there was one day that the other teacher came in and I had to do counseling
sessions out in the recess fields, in the playground, or even in the hallway.
A little bit more of a public space.
Yeah and same with the middle school. I had an office that was the size of a closet so that also
kind of showed my value as well that I know teachers you know they're meeting with students
all day they have these really big classrooms but just the lack of some of the resources
and the lack of space and kind of showed well you know here this is a secondary service to teachers.
You are the secondary service rather than one of the primary services if that makes sense.
Definitely it switches the mentality as to how mental health should be viewed and it makes it
seem very secondary and I think that one thing that you're hoping your viewers take away from
this conversation is to have more conversations amongst themselves about the priority need
of mental health in their schools. The last thing I wanted to ask is that I'm starting to go on this
premise here this pathway of trying to get the ingredients for the secret sauce to education.
What would you say is like the number one ingredient to the secret sauce in education
to help students succeed both socially, emotionally, and even mentally as well?
I don't think I have the answer to that. I don't know if there's going to be a secret sauce.
I think funding is a big one because I've noticed that in schools that have more funding there's
more resources and therefore there might be more support of mental health initiatives,
mental health professionals, also support from our communities that we live in and maybe even
going back to the school board. Parents are a big one. Working with the parents is a huge part
of working with kids and teens as you know. Working with the parents is just as important
as working with the students. On the other hand, if parents are too involved where they might be
helicopter parenting, that's a whole other issue. At the district that I was working at,
what we noticed that there were parents that were engaging in gentle parenting so there were a lot
of students coming in with more behavioral issues, defiant, not doing their work, and
those behaviors were getting reinforced at home through gentle parenting. So that's a whole other
conversation but I think parenting styles but having a well-involved parent and if they're
supportive of teachers, mental health professionals, we can all work together. By working together or
by trying to collaborate with everyone else inside a school, that can help us lead to gain the best
outcomes for our students and it's also worth noting how most behaviors also start at home.
So when people begin to realize that there's things that we could change beyond the four walls of the
classroom building, that we can make real changes when we go install the classroom building after
that. I completely agree with that statement. All right well as we come to the end of today's episode
of the Classroom Narratives Healing in Education podcast, I wanted to go ahead and take a moment
to thank Monica for her time and expertise on the subject of mental health counseling in schools.
And I think that if there's one thing that Monica and I would like for you to take away from this
episode, is that no matter what role you play in the school, whether you are a counselor,
a teacher, or an administrator, that your ability to collaborate with one another while also
listening and showing compassion to your students can be transformative in ensuring their fullest
needs are met. And of course this goes for parents as well. Thank you for joining us on the Classroom
Narratives Healing in Education podcast. If today's episode inspired you or made you think
differently, I'd love to hear from you. Drop a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts
and stay connected with us on the at Classroom Narratives podcast over Instagram and Facebook.
Remember, together we can transform our scars into stars in education, one conversation at a time.