1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,280 Welcome to the Classroom Narratives Healing and Education podcast, the space where education 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:12,080 meets resilience. I'm Joey Weisler, and in each episode, we dive deep into the personal stories 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:19,120 of educators, students, leaders, and frontline advocates who are navigating the complexities 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:24,800 of modern education. Whether you're just starting your teaching journey, or are a seasoned 5 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:31,040 professional looking for inspiration, we'll explore how to foster meaningful change, prevent burnout, 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:36,160 and build trauma-informed communities in our schools. Now, let's take a seat at the front of 7 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:42,880 the classroom and get started. Today we have an inspiring conversation lined up with Monica Langer, 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:49,120 who is a licensed mental health counselor from New York City. Monica has worked extensively in both 9 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,320 elementary and middle schools, where she has witnessed firsthand the significant impact from 10 00:00:54,320 --> 00:01:00,080 the COVID-19 pandemic and what that's done for students and their mental health. And in today's 11 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,360 conversation, we'll want to dive into the importance of trauma-informed practices, and also thinking 12 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,400 about what we can do to support students who may never have access to external mental health 13 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:16,640 services. So sit tight and let's have our conversation with Monica Langer on how we can rebuild and 14 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,840 nurture our school environments. Welcome, Monica. Thank you. It's really great to be here today. 15 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,960 Great to have you. So Monica, can you start by telling us a little bit about your background 16 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:31,920 and how you became interested in this intersection of mental health and education? 17 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:39,760 So right now, I'm a licensed mental health counselor in the state of New York, and I got my 18 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:45,760 master's in counseling for mental health and wellness at NYU's Steinhardt's program. And what 19 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,640 got me interested in the connection between mental health and schools actually goes back to 20 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:56,240 when I was a student, middle school and high school, I had my own struggles in schools. 21 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:02,240 I felt like I learned differently, and there were some teachers that weren't really understanding 22 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:08,160 at the time of that, and mental health wasn't as much spoken about. Back when I was in high 23 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:14,480 school, it was a lot more stigmatized. So I think now just bringing mental health into the schools 24 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:20,640 has really made a difference for those kids. So how would you say that these types of changes 25 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:25,680 in learning have affected the social skills and some of the students that maybe you work with? 26 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:32,800 Yeah, that is a really, really excellent question. Back to my personal experience also with mental 27 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:38,960 health, I feel like when there wasn't as much with mental health in schools, there were kids that 28 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:44,000 were sort of under looked, and they might have struggled with more anxiety, they were worried 29 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,680 to even raise their hand, or they might have had low self-esteem, and they looked maybe like the 30 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,800 perfect student. They did well, they did what they had to do, but they still had those issues 31 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:02,400 underneath. Whereas now, when there's a school counselor, before I was a student assistance 32 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,280 counselor, so that's a little bit different, but even just mental health, prevention, and 33 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:14,000 even just mental health providers in the school, it really helps students learning. Let's say if a 34 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:21,520 student in the classroom had issues with doing group work, or even lacking confidence to raise 35 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:27,760 their hand, or asking teachers for help, being in a small group setting outside of the classroom to 36 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:34,000 talk about these things, and also to give kids the schools and maybe some coping skills that they can 37 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:42,080 use to then better succeed in the classroom. So I have seen that firsthand. And also working directly 38 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:47,760 with their teachers, so if they're elementary school level, their primary teacher, if they're 39 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:54,240 middle school or high school level, maybe they're, let's say if it's seventh or eighth grade team 40 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:59,760 members, that's like a group of teachers that work on a team together. So I think that's really 41 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:06,160 beneficial, working with the teachers as a team in a collaborative way to better help the student 42 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:12,960 succeed, whether it's social skills, maybe they're struggling with something at home that's affecting 43 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:19,600 their learning as well. They're dealing with a trauma or a death of a loved one. They might 44 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,720 have a parent who struggles with addiction. So those are things that students are carrying with 45 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:30,320 them in the classroom as well. And they really need to have that outlet to talk about these things 46 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:36,160 with a professional counselor or a school social worker. Definitely. So you talked a little bit 47 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,040 already about some of the different coping skills that your students have been using to better 48 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,320 themselves. And I'm quite curious here in some of your work, where have you noticed that these 49 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:53,520 coping skills have either changed or been useful for students in various situations who are living 50 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,760 in post pandemic life? Because also let's think about it, some of the students that you work with 51 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:03,920 in elementary school may have only been born around 2020, where to them putting on the face mask is 52 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,960 just as regular to us. It's like putting on our socks and shoes to them. That's just normal 53 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:14,240 everyday routine for them. So for some of these students who are trying to learn a new normal 54 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,480 after that, what are some of the coping skills that they have and how do you approach that in 55 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:25,360 your position along with others that work alongside you? So that made me think about other things. So 56 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,960 I wanted to talk about the other things. And then I guess some of the coping skills that I've 57 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:35,760 implemented through classroom push-ins as well as individual and group sessions. So I've noticed with 58 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:43,600 the pediatric population, especially there's been an increase in health anxiety or in particular 59 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:50,960 illness anxiety disorder post pandemic. So they might be increasingly anxious about getting sick. 60 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:57,280 They might not be able to go to classes without wearing a face mask. They also just might be 61 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:01,680 worried that they're going to catch COVID and bring COVID back to their family. And that's a really 62 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:09,920 real worry that they have because some of their really young lives, they experienced their parents 63 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:16,080 maybe getting sick. They might've lost a loved one due to COVID-19 and even going back into the 64 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:22,640 classroom around 2021 where like some of them were going in person. Some students were staying home 65 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:28,160 for the year. It was sort of like a hybrid environment. So just dealing with all of that, 66 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:34,800 that really had an impact on their anxiety levels as well as social skills. Some of them might've 67 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:41,280 developed more social anxiety symptoms because they were so used to not socializing in person. 68 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:47,840 It might've been through social media or not even socializing at all, making them when they go back 69 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:53,600 in person more socially anxious and not knowing how to socialize and talking to the other kids. 70 00:06:54,400 --> 00:07:01,360 Some coping skills that at least I've implemented in classroom push-ins, I'm trying to remember what 71 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:10,240 I did. I did a lot of breathing techniques. So there was one in particular called the 5-4-3-2-1 72 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,360 technique. That one is a grounding technique where you look at five things that you see, 73 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:22,240 four things that you can feel. Basically you're going through the five different senses to ground 74 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:30,160 yourself if you're experiencing anxiety or if you're feeling overwhelmed. I also had students do the 75 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:36,640 butterfly hug. So this is something where you're tapping back and forth and you're also saying 76 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:47,120 positive self-affirmations like I'm safe, I'm okay to kind of also calm down those anxious and maybe 77 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:54,240 depressive feelings. And the butterfly hug could also be used in a trauma situation. So if a student 78 00:07:54,240 --> 00:08:01,360 experienced trauma as well. There was one other thing that I did which this was in particular 79 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:08,480 with a classroom lesson. I had students write down on three pieces of paper what their stressors were 80 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:15,520 and they would rank their stressors from small stressors to medium stressors to large stressors 81 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:21,360 and then crumple them up and then try to juggle them and to see if they could literally juggle 82 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:27,360 the pieces of paper. And then we had a discussion on oh if you needed help juggling would you have 83 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:33,760 a friend help you juggle the pieces of paper or how would you literally juggle these stressors in 84 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:39,280 real life. And it seems like that activity really made an impact on some of the students. 85 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:45,280 Yes like it actually humanizes what they're trying to deal with. I love that. And I was also thinking 86 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,000 about in this conversation so far you mentioned that a lot of our students returning to the 87 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:57,360 classroom really struggle with social issues. And I know even adults about my age consistently talk 88 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:03,920 about their social anxiety that has only been increased as a result of pandemic life. How have 89 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:09,680 you noticed this with students in the elementary middle school setting? Like what does that look 90 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:14,240 like? What does social anxiety look like? And how are they working to overcome it alongside you? 91 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:23,680 Yeah I was going to say social anxiety has been really common for just the pediatric ages. And 92 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:29,360 I've noticed little things like students have been reluctant to ask their teachers for help 93 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:35,840 in certain situations and they engage in a lot of avoidant behaviors. They might hide in the bathroom 94 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:42,000 when there's a social situation or if there's a time when they're experiencing anxiety about 95 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:49,040 talking to someone important. A lot of class avoidance as well and then even the most extreme 96 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:56,000 if they have more severe social anxiety that can turn into school avoidance and school refusal 97 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,880 making it difficult to get the parent to get their child into the building. 98 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:08,560 Definitely. I still substitute teacher around my city on days that I just need a break from writing. 99 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:14,080 I pick up a job and I run down the street and I just have a chance to network with some of 100 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,000 my old teachers and their students. And I was just talking with the student a couple days ago 101 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,040 who was reflecting on her time back at my old middle school where I also used to work. 102 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:30,080 And she said that in her sixth grade English class the teacher used to call on people at random 103 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,720 and this particular student could not get along with this teacher because her social anxiety was 104 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:40,240 always so heightened in that class because she knew that she could get called on at random at any 105 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:47,360 time and she could not handle that kind of setup or that classroom. So for students that are dealing 106 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:53,200 with social pressures in the classroom who may be afraid to talk to their teachers about it, 107 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:59,120 what advice did you give them? So honestly in those situations I've actually spoken with the teacher 108 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:06,400 saying I helped advocate for the student because in other situations the teacher would call on them 109 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:12,000 because they thought that the student wasn't paying attention or they weren't engaged because 110 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:17,680 they weren't raising their hand so then they would continuously call on the student. So I think also 111 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:24,000 advocating for the student and working with the teacher as well to just let them know that there 112 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:30,240 might be some anxiety there and to kind of ease off the student a little bit that they know the 113 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:35,920 answers they're just afraid and then also working with the student maybe one-on-one on some 114 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:43,120 assertiveness skills and how important it is for students to have their own voice. Yes teachers and 115 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,880 mental health providers can help advocate for these students who feel like they don't have a voice but 116 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:55,120 at the end of the day giving the students to voice out their own concerns is very important. 117 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:02,160 Definitely so from what I'm hearing is that students need advocacy along with independence 118 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:08,800 there needs to be that good balance somewhere and in thinking about that one of the main issues that 119 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:14,880 we've mentioned before amongst each other in our own conversations is that there always seems to be 120 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,840 a lot of red tape and still a lot of stigma so we still talk about access to mental health and 121 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:25,440 mental health services in schools. What are some of the barriers that you've experienced as a mental 122 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,160 health counselor in your own school? There were so many students that were referred to me that I 123 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:35,920 wasn't able to see all of the students with the amount of time that I had and there were some 124 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,800 students that were struggling with anxiety but because it wasn't affect their learning 125 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:48,160 they weren't able to be seen. The only way that a student was able to be seen with me is if their 126 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:54,800 mental health was affecting their learning. They might not have been performing well academically 127 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,040 or they had attentional issues and they were getting distracted in class but if they were doing 128 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:06,720 fine academically and their mental health was still not good then they might have not been eligible 129 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:13,920 to receive the service unless if they self-referred and they might have met with me maybe 130 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:20,160 you know one time for a check-in or like you know certain self-referral check-ins but it 131 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:26,880 wouldn't have been a meeting on a regular basis. I don't think I've asked this quite yet. What 132 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,800 exactly are you doing now at this time because you spent a lot of time in school so what are you doing 133 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:38,800 now? So right now I'm a pediatric clinician in a medical setting and I was going to say there's a 134 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:46,480 reason why I transitioned. I loved working at the schools and I think I learned so much valuable 135 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:54,800 information but at the same time I felt like the administration didn't value me as much as a mental 136 00:13:54,800 --> 00:14:02,800 health professional. There was much higher value on the teachers, the principal, the assistant principal 137 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:11,200 and no one really understood my role. It wasn't a clear-cut role so my role I was being spread 138 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:17,920 really thin. I was doing prevention activities, classroom lessons. I was also running a club 139 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:24,880 either after school or at lunchtime for students. I was providing one-on-one counseling. I was doing 140 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:33,920 lunch groups. I was doing groups group counseling so there was just a lot and it started to cause 141 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:40,320 some burnout and I really loved the counseling component. I really felt that when I was counseling 142 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,840 and working with students in groups or one-on-one I was making the most of an impact even though 143 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:51,920 everything else I was doing I made a huge impact but I kind of felt like for my own mental health 144 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:58,720 and burnout I wanted to go into a more set a setting where I was just doing counseling which 145 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:06,000 that's what I'm doing now. I'm working with kids in person and remotely and I'm also on my way to 146 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:13,200 get certified in cognitive behavioral therapy through the academy of cognitive therapy. 147 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,720 The work that you're doing is changing a lot of lives and we're very grateful for that. 148 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,760 If you could say one thing about how schools should look at their mental health counselor, 149 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,800 what would that look like? What should principals know about mental health counselors and what 150 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,800 should maybe other mental health counselors that are listening to this podcast who maybe 151 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,160 have their own sense of burnout be thinking about at this time? 152 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:41,120 I think just having more of an emphasis of appreciation and the need for mental health 153 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:49,520 support in schools and getting that support from the administration whether it's funding, 154 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:55,760 resources, the biggest thing at my last job I did not have my own office. As you know with 155 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:03,120 confidentiality everything that a student discloses is confidential unless they disclose that they 156 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:08,080 were going to hurt themselves, hurt someone else, or if they were getting abused or neglected 157 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:14,320 but I guess with schools there was a lack of resources and a lack of physical space. 158 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:20,320 At the elementary school I was working at I was actually sharing an office with two other teachers. 159 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:27,120 I wasn't at the elementary school every day so the day that I was there I had for the most part my 160 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:32,560 own room but then there was one day that the other teacher came in and I had to do counseling 161 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:39,840 sessions out in the recess fields, in the playground, or even in the hallway. 162 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,840 A little bit more of a public space. 163 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:49,600 Yeah and same with the middle school. I had an office that was the size of a closet so that also 164 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,800 kind of showed my value as well that I know teachers you know they're meeting with students 165 00:16:54,800 --> 00:17:00,880 all day they have these really big classrooms but just the lack of some of the resources 166 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:08,720 and the lack of space and kind of showed well you know here this is a secondary service to teachers. 167 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:14,960 You are the secondary service rather than one of the primary services if that makes sense. 168 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,840 Definitely it switches the mentality as to how mental health should be viewed and it makes it 169 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,080 seem very secondary and I think that one thing that you're hoping your viewers take away from 170 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:30,240 this conversation is to have more conversations amongst themselves about the priority need 171 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,880 of mental health in their schools. The last thing I wanted to ask is that I'm starting to go on this 172 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:41,520 premise here this pathway of trying to get the ingredients for the secret sauce to education. 173 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,560 What would you say is like the number one ingredient to the secret sauce in education 174 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,440 to help students succeed both socially, emotionally, and even mentally as well? 175 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,520 I don't think I have the answer to that. I don't know if there's going to be a secret sauce. 176 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:06,880 I think funding is a big one because I've noticed that in schools that have more funding there's 177 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:12,640 more resources and therefore there might be more support of mental health initiatives, 178 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:20,000 mental health professionals, also support from our communities that we live in and maybe even 179 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:27,200 going back to the school board. Parents are a big one. Working with the parents is a huge part 180 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:33,200 of working with kids and teens as you know. Working with the parents is just as important 181 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:40,480 as working with the students. On the other hand, if parents are too involved where they might be 182 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:46,720 helicopter parenting, that's a whole other issue. At the district that I was working at, 183 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:52,560 what we noticed that there were parents that were engaging in gentle parenting so there were a lot 184 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:59,680 of students coming in with more behavioral issues, defiant, not doing their work, and 185 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:06,880 those behaviors were getting reinforced at home through gentle parenting. So that's a whole other 186 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:12,640 conversation but I think parenting styles but having a well-involved parent and if they're 187 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:20,320 supportive of teachers, mental health professionals, we can all work together. By working together or 188 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:26,880 by trying to collaborate with everyone else inside a school, that can help us lead to gain the best 189 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,640 outcomes for our students and it's also worth noting how most behaviors also start at home. 190 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,280 So when people begin to realize that there's things that we could change beyond the four walls of the 191 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:42,000 classroom building, that we can make real changes when we go install the classroom building after 192 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,680 that. I completely agree with that statement. All right well as we come to the end of today's episode 193 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:52,400 of the Classroom Narratives Healing in Education podcast, I wanted to go ahead and take a moment 194 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:58,000 to thank Monica for her time and expertise on the subject of mental health counseling in schools. 195 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,560 And I think that if there's one thing that Monica and I would like for you to take away from this 196 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,440 episode, is that no matter what role you play in the school, whether you are a counselor, 197 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:13,840 a teacher, or an administrator, that your ability to collaborate with one another while also 198 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,960 listening and showing compassion to your students can be transformative in ensuring their fullest 199 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:24,640 needs are met. And of course this goes for parents as well. Thank you for joining us on the Classroom 200 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,840 Narratives Healing in Education podcast. If today's episode inspired you or made you think 201 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:35,280 differently, I'd love to hear from you. Drop a comment or review wherever you listen to podcasts 202 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,720 and stay connected with us on the at Classroom Narratives podcast over Instagram and Facebook. 203 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:48,240 Remember, together we can transform our scars into stars in education, one conversation at a time.