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Welcome back to At Sixes and Sevens, I am Tommy and I'm Rio. Today we're diving into

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the tragic story of Judith Barsi, a talented child actress whose life was marked by both

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brilliance and unimaginable pain. Now this story is a heartfelt one for sure, so if you've

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got your tissues I'd recommend getting some. We might show a clip or two of her acting

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career but we'll get into the deep dives and everything a bit later. But just as a

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slight introduction to her life, Judith herself was born on June 6th, 1978 in Los Angeles,

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California to Hungarian immigrant parents. Now her father Joseph Barsi and mother Maria

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hoped to create a better life in America. Judith was their only child and from a very

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young age she displayed an extraordinary talent for acting, singing and even performing.

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Judith began landing roles in commercials showcasing her charm and unique voice. Yeah

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because at the end of the day who didn't want to be Alphaba? I'm definitely an Alphaba.

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Are you a Galinda or are you an Alphaba? That is the question right now. I'm not gonna lie,

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I don't know what the difference between them is apart from Alphaba I know has scabies and

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Galinda I don't know. If you watch Wicked? No. Oh okay that's probably why then. Yeah.

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We'll have to get into that a bit later. I do want to watch it but I want to watch the

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movies when the second one comes out. Oh that's true yeah makes sense but either way. As Judith

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kind of well the thing is we're gonna get into how she became famous which kind of links

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into it. She wasn't in Wicked unfortunately. As Judith became a household name in the late

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1980s the pressure just began to mount. She appeared on popular shows like Elf and Family

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Ties which you know anybody watching or anybody listening know of those shows then shout out

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to you, your old, often playing roles that highlighted her bright and bubbly personality.

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I think you don't realise that the 80s weren't that long ago like people. 40 years. Yeah

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that's not old. Like I'd say old is like people that are 80 or 90 you know people that were

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raised in the 80s are like. Well they're older than we are. Yeah yeah that's what I mean

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like. But while her star was rising the darkness at home grew. You know the pressure of her

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budding career compounded her father's issues leading to complex often suffocating family

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dynamic. She was expected to perform not just for an audience but also to win her father's

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approval. You know. Which I don't think is like a nice household feeling to have if you

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can't win your father's approval. That was her dad's kind of trophy. She was a trophy

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child basically. Making him the money so he can pay for everything else. Yeah so you know

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if she'd done something wrong he would lash out at her. Which is horrible. No. I believe

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he was very, very good morning. He was very abusive. Yes. Always like the end wasn't he

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is what I've kind of read up on. Physically abusive and that's how it ended tragically.

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It's gotta be like torturing isn't it. It's mentally like messed up in your head. But

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let's focus on the good stuff for now. And then we'll go into the the grungier stuff.

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Her kind of most famous role and most significant role was an Anne Marie. I don't think I've

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ever watched this. Anne Marie? You mean as Anne Marie? Oh as. Well yeah. In a film called

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All Dogs Go to Heaven. Which sounds like a fairy. Yeah I've never watched it and I don't

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want to because I'd probably cry my eyes out. I believe we'll show a clip soon. But it's

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a film released in 1989 that became a beloved classic. In this film she plays a young girl

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who befriends Charlie, a dog trying to earn his place in heaven. Which if you just even

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read that tagline you're like oh gosh okay this is this is gonna mess with me. Especially

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if it's in the 80s as well. Like Disney kind of style. Who knows. I'm not sure who it was

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made by actually. But her portrayal herself added warmth and depth to her character making

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Anne Marie unforgettable. It's a tough watch. Especially if you love dogs. You know if you

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watched Marley and Me and you cried then this is like a hundred times sadder kind of thing.

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But yeah Anne Marie she's an orphan. It's sad and Charlie's like her best friend. Judith

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recorded her lines for All Dogs Go to Heaven in early 1988 during a time of great joy mixed

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with you know underlying turmoil. Her performances were a mix of innocence and emotional depth

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capturing the essence of a child who understands loss yet still holds hope. Which for that

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age, well around that time anyway, to understand the complexities of the emotional depth of

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like you know going through all of the stages of you know denial, grief whatever it might

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be. That is an incredible like it's not even talent it's more just tragedy. Because it's

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not a thing that we should be like oh wow that's incredible she was talented. It's

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a thing that we have to look up of. It is so sad that a child has to understand those

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things at that age because of what she's been through. You know no child should be able

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to understand those feelings or go through whatever she was going through without acting.

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Because she was doing it like without acting at that point.

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Yeah she might have just even been just being herself in that moment but you don't really

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know and you can't really tell. But we'll talk about her upbringing I think because

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it's good to know the backstories and like how she grew up. And we'll kind of we'll start

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with her father. So Joseph Barcy. He had a troubled background to start with. So he fled

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Hungary during the oh what was it the 1956 revolution I think?

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Yeah.

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Yeah it was. Seeking safety and a better life for his family of course which in that time

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why wouldn't you?

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Understandable.

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But yeah I'd do that. However adapting to a life in America proved difficult for him

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as well. Leading to feelings of inadequacy I'd say and frustration.

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You know even though it's the great American life, the new beginning you know freedom and

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all that. It is so so fucking hard to start a life in America and you know for these people

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that have done it, huge kudos to them because they've started from nothing and you know

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they've made a new life for themselves. But especially back then you know going over to

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America you know they would have nothing. You know fleeing from Hungary during the revolution.

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They'd leave with nothing and just start from you know zero. So it must have been hard you

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know he was probably stressed as shit. You know trying to provide-

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Work in like 50 hour weeks just so he can get a paycheck at that point. Yeah.

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No.

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But you know once again that does not advocate for what he'd done and what kind of person

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he became.

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Not at all.

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Yeah you know these feelings he's spiralled into severe issues with alcoholism and violence.

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You know this background likely influenced his inability to cope with the pressure of

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parenting ultimately turning him into an abuser. You know the abusive father and husband he

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was.

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Classic alcoholism, violence you know all that stuff.

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Yeah.

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You know it shouldn't be classic. It should be eradicated at that point but unfortunately

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it still happens and especially back in that time there's a lot of pressure, there's a

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lot of stress and it just kind of hits you at that point.

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It's that typical you know white vest wearing beer belly stellar drinking you know man.

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I mean some people would class that as a Chad but that's where the kind of the toxic male

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cliques and everything comes in but we're not going to talk about that. I think we should

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go talk about her mother though. Her mother was a beautiful woman and the relationship

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between Judith's parents was kind of destined but also doomed from the start. So Maria was

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a devoted mother and tried to protect Judith from Joseph's aggression but she kind of found

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herself in a precarious situation. You know she often felt torn between wanting to keep

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her daughter safe.

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Yeah of course.

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Or trying to maintain her marriage and making sure that he's not going to do something that

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will probably affect the family in the future.

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Because when you know when he's probably lashing out on Judith you know Maria's trying to stop

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him but then it gets to a certain point where he takes the anger onto Maria so she needs

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to find that boundary where you know neither of them get abused or try to calm down but

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you can't win with them.

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Although you really can't which is a shame.

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You know reports indicate that Maria initially believed that love could overcome Joseph's

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darker tendencies. We know that never happens but as the years went by it became painfully

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clear that the violence and control only escalated. It got worse. You know leaving both Judith

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and Maria in a constant state of fear. You know whenever he'd come home they'd be terrified

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that he's going to lash out if he had a bad day or whenever they would come home they'd

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be terrified that he's going to lash out because he had a bad day.

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Living in a constant state of like paranoia.

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It's like walking on eggshells constantly.

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Yeah exactly. Well yeah it's worse than eggshells at that point. Like treading on full on spikes.

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And you can't get around it. It's just some days have worse days than others but most

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of the time it's a worse day. So it's yeah it's honestly so strange. And God forbid anybody

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going through that struggle. Like we're here with you. We support you.

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You're scared of every single thing you do. You know one stupid thing like you do something

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by accident. You know we'll knock over a glass. You know it won't even smash you'll just knock

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over a glass and it'll make a noise. And here comes the alcoholic father marching into the

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room being like what the fuck did you do? You're like oh I'm sorry. You know you're

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petrified and then he lifts his hand and then whacks you you know because of something stupid

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like knocking over a glass. And every single small thing you do if you sneeze for example

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you're scared that they're not going to like that and then they're going to hit you. Yeah

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it's horrible because the amount of people that go through that you know it's terrible.

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Kind of yeah it well this links into it. So Judas success kind of like came at a massively

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steep price. So out of the front and out of kind of her exterior she was celebrated and

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in public. You know all of the attention she was getting all the fame all of the fortune

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she was getting. She obviously was celebrated and loved within the public. But then when

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she had turned to home and went to her mum and dad she kind of out isolated which I believe

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you know you could understand. Her father's kind of abusive behaviour often meant that

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she couldn't invite friends over. She couldn't do anything else. She couldn't go outside.

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She can you know it was very strict and there wasn't a lot that she could do. Which left

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her alone with all of her thoughts and even worse her fears. It's like being a circus

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animal at that point. Like all she done was work right. Go do acting be on screen make

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money for dad and when you get home you're just by yourself. You're locked in a dark

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lonely room as a child. Keep in mind she was a child.

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He doesn't get paid. She doesn't get anything.

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Like literally she was 10 years old when she died. And you know you're going home to hoping

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to spend time with family and loved ones to just being all by yourself and not having

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anyone to turn to. Like imagine being a young girl literally yearning for companionship

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but being trapped in a house filled with tension. You know that isolation, um compounded pressure

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she felt to succeed as she believed you know achievements could show. She felt like it

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could mend her destroyed family life. You know she felt like her doing all of that could

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somehow make her dad accept and love her and show the love that she needs and deserves.

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So she worked harder and harder.

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But trying to mend a broken relationship and a broken kind of marriage on like kind of

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just pinning it on a 10 year old child is the worst thing you could ever imagine because

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it's they can't fix anything. They're not going to do anything. If anything you have

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to look after them. So why are you pinning it on a child who's you know going to get

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success and is they going to be famous and all? No it's not giving you hope. At that

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point you might as well finish the job and you know just divorce or something at least

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something like that to make it better for the child.

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Yeah and it was like so hard to do that back then and you know for everyone listening you've

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probably realized that myself and Tommy are very like down toned today. Like we sound

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very off and we generally do not know what half the time what we're going to say is because

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this this this Barcy case does not set well with me. You know any any sort of case doesn't

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set well with me but this one especially because of the type of case as you know half the time

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I'm going to be lost for words and what to say and half the time I'm going to go quiet

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because I know that if I speak I will feel physically sick or cry.

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Yeah it is an emotionally tolling story and I've read up on it and I've watched some YouTube

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videos as well and it's even for me like I'm speechless at like the events that occurred

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what happened you know even you can't even fit into a short amount of time because of

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how in depth everything is and there's so many kind of branches that kind of lead off

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into so many different questions so many different answers which aren't revealed to the public

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and it's like it's interesting from a psychological point of view it's like what was going through

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their mind blah blah blah all the major questions where everybody you know but actually going

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through that is the worst pain fear imaginable.

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Because most of the cases that we talk about is you know somebody getting murdered in a

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random act of violence or somebody going missing and does not know what happened but here we

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know exactly what happened and we know the most horrible fact is that her own father

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you know the person that is meant to be there and protect her from everything literally

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that her own father could do that to someone someone so innocent and supposed to cherish

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yeah oh anyway let's let's let's continue.

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I think we should go back to all dogs go to heaven because there is an important.

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It is her final her final thing is what we're going to talk about most is and but we're

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actually well I'm going to focus on Burt Reynolds so Burt Reynolds was the dog but you know

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he he voiced Charlie and he had a special bond with Judith during the production because

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obviously you have to be in a booth with her you have to you know the conversations back

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and forth and get to know you have to make a you know grow some sort of bond when you're

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acting you know if you're going to especially if you're going to be sad on screen about

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someone passing you have to kind of have that emotional bond with them and yeah you can't

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be kind of emotionally numb but he often described her as a bright light with a remarkable talent

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which you know their relationship themselves went beyond co-stars it was like a mental

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role offering encouragement and kind of guidance into the industry and advice kind of like

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a fatherly figure but only in the kind of advice and the mental role basically.

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Yeah like he he could probably tell that you know something was was wrong but he couldn't

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just tell what so he kind of took her under his wing you know especially Burt Reynolds

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being an experienced actor at that point he you know seeing young talent he wanted to

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protect her and make sure that she gets the right care like mentoring.

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Not manipulated or ruined yeah no because you know what Hollywood can do to people.

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Absolutely yes but after Judith's tragic death on the 25th of July 1988 Reynolds was heartbroken

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he had finished recording his lines but was unaware that this talented young girl who

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he cherished would no longer be there to share in the film's success with him.

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The only person who would benefit from that success is the dad and the mum well mostly

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the dad probably but you know she didn't get to see how amazing obviously the film turned

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out to be she didn't even get to watch the movie I believe.

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No no she didn't get to yeah.

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The Greb Carpenter release you know the what's it called the opening night.

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The premiere yeah the premiere yeah didn't get to turn up to any of that.

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Reynolds had to return to the studio to complete his work whilst learning about Judith's passing

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so he had to well understand and learn the news that his co-star Judith kind of passed

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away and it was a massively emotionally like kind of challenging experience.

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Imagine going back to the studio knowing that the line you are about to record is saying

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goodbye to her well her saying goodbye to you because in a movie you know Anne Marie

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Judith says goodbye to Charlie Burt Reynolds because Charlie is about to pass away and

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you know Charlie is about to go to heaven but now it's turned into Burt Reynolds saying

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goodbye to Judith for the final time.

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Yeah because he didn't know what that would be his last and it's yeah I think in that

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point he struggled to deliver his lines just because the massive amount of weight of lost

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that was heavy on his heart.

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Yeah apparently like it took numerous takes I think it was like in the 50s for him to

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get it right you know listening back to the clip which we're about to play in a second

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you can hear the pain in his voice and you know knowing that he was recording without

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Judith by his side you know that emotional way adds a haunting layer to the film and

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he you know once it's released.

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I think let's just take a moment to listen to a clip from well listen to this clip where

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you know Judith's voice it just brings Anne Marie to life.

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Charlie. Yeah it's me how you feeling kid? Okay how are you? Well I come to say goodbye.

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Where are you going? Ah it's not a little trip. Listen squeaker I want you to do something

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for me all right? Uh huh. I want you to take care of Itchy you know just while I'm gone.

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We got a home now and he doesn't have anybody. Don't worry Charlie I will. Great. Well goodbye

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little buddy. Oh Charlie I'll miss you. Yeah I'll miss you too squeaker. Now you go to

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sleep huh? Charlie will I ever see you again? Sure sure you will kid. You know goodbyes

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aren't forever. Then goodbye Charlie. I love you. Yeah I love you too. Um.

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Oh squeaker I'm sorry I'm so very sorry. Charlie come home.

228
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Oh fuck it out that's um. That really does hit like I physically got goosebumps then.

229
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Yeah I got teary eyed every time I listened to it. Um. It's just fact. Give a moment for

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Rio to just get his tears back in his eyes. It's the fact that at the end when you hear

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him say oh squeaker I'm so sorry. You know that was unscripted that was him genuinely

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saying that he's sorry for what happened to Judith. I think it was more the um when he

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said I love you like you could tell that he was just like uh shit like that punch of emotion

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like that raw power. Like hearing her voice like it's both beautiful and heartbreaking

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at the same time knowing that is the last sentence that she recorded. You know it's

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a poignant kind of reminder of the talent she possessed and the joy she brought to those

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around her. Um. All whilst facing her own internal struggles at home. You know as a

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child she'd always do her darnest best to record the best she can. I don't know how

239
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:30,960
many times I said best there but fuck. No it is. We know well I know what you mean as

240
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well because hearing that in such a different light and obviously understanding the story

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of what happens it really does kind of make you understand that she was so talented and

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she possessed like so much talent within her that people don't actually realise how much

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of a star she actually was. Yeah. The kind of the impact itself of her death. Um I think

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it sent massive shockwaves through the entertainment industry. Um her town, her community, kind

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of everything around it. Um like kind of many colleagues and friends expressed all their

246
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sorrow sharing the stories of her laughter, all of her kindness, kind of like I said going

247
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back to it that light that she brought into Bert's life, into their lives, into everybody

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else's lives as well. Yeah especially like in the movie industry you know and whether

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it's animated or not um she she was probably the talk. Everybody was talking about oh have

250
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you heard about this new uprising star Judith Barsi. Barsi she's in this you know movie

251
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coming out and then all of a sudden she's no longer. Like everybody must have been talking

252
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about her in Hollywood and so everybody must have been affected by this at the time in

253
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Hollywood and everyone would have been heartbroken and it's probably still affecting people to

254
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this day. But the tragedy also prompted conversations about the responsibilities of parents and

255
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guardians in the entertainment industry. You know Judith's case highlighted the need for

256
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vigilance when it comes to the welfare of child actors because they're often you know

257
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kind of forgotten about and you know you trust the parents. Um but in that kind of industry

258
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you kind of need to keep an eye on the parents even more because they'll get you know money

259
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,680
hungry or fame hungry and they'll forget. You don't want to let everything get to their

260
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head do you? Yeah they'll forget about basic parenting. Yeah they'll forget at that point

261
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that they are parents and that that is their daughter. They more of it see it as like a

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money machine. Yeah exactly they just see it as like oh well they're making me money

263
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so they can do what they want and then it's it starts to go into neglect. Yeah. Which

264
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obviously you don't want as a child for sure. Her kind of Judith herself, the tragic story

265
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of what happened of course, has been used to raise awareness about child abuse and the

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importance of kind of intervention which I think is a great thing. I mean obviously it's

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terrible obviously what happened and you know we never wish upon anybody's worst enemy.

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But it's good that change has taken place. Exactly yeah it's been used to kind of raise

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that awareness and be like this is what can happen, this is what we need to kind of sort

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of get this out. And from that various organisations dedicated to child advocacy reference her

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story just to educate the public about recognising you know what the signs of abuse might be,

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the necessity of protective measures and kind of what you can do to spot it, what you can

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do to help it, what it can do to kind of like avoid or stop it as well. It is it's essential

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to remember that the effects of such tragedies can last for generations. Judith's story serves

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as a painful reminder of the vital need to ensure that children are safe, you know that

276
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they are supported and that they are heard. Because a lot of the times we kind of turn

277
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a blind eye when it comes to kids. We look at you know them with their parents and be

278
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like oh cool the parents are there that's fine. But you need to look at the deeper kind

279
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of side of it as okay the parents are there but are they being a good parent? You know

280
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if a child all of a sudden flinches because I you know lift something up like it's been

281
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happening on TikTok. Oh I've heard about that one as well. Yeah that whole case is messed

282
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up. Yeah it's literally cases upon cases to this day where a parent does something simple

283
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like lifts something up and the child flinches with their entire body. Now fair enough flinching

284
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is a great reflex and it's a reflex that you need. However a child should not be flinching

285
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like that. Should be not subjected to anything like that at all. Absolutely and you know

286
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,600
if you noticed something, if you are out there and you notice something simple like a child

287
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flinching or a child acting weird on the emotional side. You know like not crying when it's supposed

288
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to cry because children are supposed to cry when they hurt themselves. But if a child

289
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isn't crying and is kind of you know acting tough. Nonchalant and tough yeah. Check on

290
00:30:54,320 --> 00:31:00,360
the kid. You know don't interrogate the child you know whatever. Just you know do what you're

291
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supposed to do. But if you feel like something is wrong then report it. There's nothing wrong

292
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:15,520
with reporting. The authorities know about her son. Yeah. CSPS. Child Protective Services.

293
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:22,360
Childline. Yeah. Report it to them. And if they find something well done. If they don't

294
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:28,800
you tried. You know it's. You never get into trouble for reporting something that you think

295
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:34,640
is odd or off. You're better safe than sorry. It's also, but then again it is the factor

296
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,040
of the fear isn't it. What will happen if they find out and everything obviously goes

297
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:46,680
on behind the curtains. What will happen when I get home or if they know it's you know there's

298
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:53,880
who can you confide within to actually tell this story which is the scariest part of it.

299
00:31:53,880 --> 00:32:01,840
Yeah. But after Judith's tragic death Maria her mother was left to pick up the pieces

300
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:09,000
of kind of what would be now her shattered life. The loss of her only child was obviously

301
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:16,200
an excruciating pain that would haunt her for years to come. You know Maria initially

302
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:23,920
faced immense public scrutiny and personal guilt as you would because you know she's

303
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,080
she's thinking how did I not see this how I could have prevented that. How could I have

304
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I prevented it. You know the feeling of guilt that she shouldn't be feeling. The burden

305
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:44,840
of this loss was compounded by the grief that engulfed her. Not only is she grieving the

306
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loss of a child she's also facing media and getting abused by media at that point. You

307
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:59,960
know asking about tens of thousands of questions and also the fact that she's got 10 million

308
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ways going through her head waves going through her head of how could she have predicted her

309
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daughter from her father's abuse.

310
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:19,360
Yeah I think in the aftermath of what happened Maria sort of like sought out for counselling

311
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:26,080
just to help her cope in any way with this overwhelming grief this overwhelming sadness

312
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that she was feeling and she struggled to kind of find her place in that world that

313
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was you know completely devoid of joy. You know you would be after losing your daughter.

314
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:44,440
Yeah she probably felt empty inside at the same time she was feeling those thousands

315
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:52,520
of different emotions and I just I can't even begin to imagine begin to imagine what she's

316
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,520
feeling.

317
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,520
Unfortunately.

318
00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:01,840
But there were reports that she moved away from LA you know seeking solace and quieter

319
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:07,480
surroundings many believed she needed to escape the memories of the life she had built there

320
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:14,480
you know including her aspirations for Judith. She probably went around Los Angeles every

321
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,160
day and everything she's seen just reminded her of her daughter so I do not blame her

322
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,240
for having to leave.

323
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:28,260
So not only did she have to relocate once from I believe it was it Hungary as well did

324
00:34:28,260 --> 00:34:29,840
she also come from Hungary?

325
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,120
I believe so yeah.

326
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:42,560
She had to move again because of another timeline event which massively changed her life but

327
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:50,920
it kind of it what we don't kind of see about is a legacy or Judith's legacy in particular

328
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:59,280
because it compels us to kind of advocate for vulnerable children. Her life and death

329
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:05,720
kind of are just to create safe environments ensuring that obviously no child has to suffer

330
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:13,200
in silence or fear from whatever it may be. Be it's obviously other people other children

331
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,980
parents, family could be anybody like that.

332
00:35:18,980 --> 00:35:24,760
You know and as we said earlier it is crucial that we listen to children and take their

333
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,320
experiences seriously because even though we think all their kids they don't know what

334
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:36,320
they're talking about they absolutely do and you know Judith's story whilst tragic that

335
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:43,640
can inspire change and encourage conversations around child welfare welfare and protection.

336
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:51,960
You know it's hopefully it sparks that little piece of our brains to listen to children

337
00:35:51,960 --> 00:36:00,240
and actually take them seriously. You know one tragic loss it takes you know a horrible

338
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:04,040
incident like this for people to actually start listening.

339
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:11,360
It does which it shouldn't happen we should listen as soon as possible but if it takes

340
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:19,680
you know that realization and that understanding to go oh shit something's up then you know

341
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:28,840
eventually it will kick in but then we just we can inspire change like we said and encourage

342
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:38,140
those harder to have conversations. But going back to Maria which is her mother she began

343
00:36:38,140 --> 00:36:43,400
kind of participating in support groups for parents who had lost their children so like

344
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:50,040
a grieving counseling kind of AA support group but without the AA. Connecting with others

345
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:57,040
who understood her pain and obviously the sacrifice they have to make. These communities

346
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:03,720
provided with a sense of belonging during just such a hard-hitting time.

347
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:10,880
Yeah and I feel like that's the best thing to do during that kind of time is to turn

348
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:16,680
to people that have experienced the same things as you because you know you all might have

349
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,080
a piece of advice but when you put it all together you actually learn to kind of cope

350
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:28,520
and you help each other cope. So I get it but over the years she gradually opened up

351
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:34,140
about her experiences you know emphasizing the need for awareness about child abuse.

352
00:37:34,140 --> 00:37:39,760
Her voice became a part of the conversation surrounding children's safety and entertainment

353
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,880
industry which is...

354
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,960
Which is a massive kind of accomplishment wouldn't you say?

355
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:51,160
Yeah absolutely it's an incredible thing that she's done but once again why did it have

356
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,600
to take for such a tragic loss before something good is done?

357
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,240
Why couldn't have something been sorted as soon as possible?

358
00:37:58,240 --> 00:37:59,240
Exactly.

359
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:06,000
It shouldn't evolved into you know a death which is honestly a massive shame for the

360
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,000
industry let alone Maria.

361
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,200
Yes.

362
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:21,400
Well speaking of Maria I think let's update the listeners on where she is and today...

363
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,600
Maybe let's not dox her but let's just give her a life update.

364
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,840
No no no no we're not going to dox her.

365
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:26,840
Let's not say where she is.

366
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,840
She lives right back in here.

367
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:36,280
So for those wondering where she lives it's 1839 C... street.

368
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:42,020
The FBI has your location.

369
00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:45,640
Her IP address is...

370
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,480
Yeah.

371
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,640
I wonder her IP address she just gave up.

372
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,720
I don't even know IP addresses are you know usually the same for most people anyway but

373
00:38:56,720 --> 00:39:03,160
today Maria lives a much quieter life thankfully.

374
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:10,520
Whilst her pain obviously never truly goes away I think she's channeled her grief into

375
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,400
advocacy work.

376
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:20,000
Kind of only speaking events focused on child welfare which again is a massive accomplishment

377
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:28,360
and obviously a personal and it's a massive thing to do.

378
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:34,560
Going through all of that pain and then being an advocate for you know all of these events.

379
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,240
It's not like she's went through the pain and then just forgot about it she's owned

380
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:48,880
it she's using it to her and everybody else's... what's it called advantage that's it.

381
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:55,240
And although she is not in the public eye as much as before her story serves as a reminder

382
00:39:55,240 --> 00:40:00,840
of the importance of vigilance and compassion in protecting children.

383
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,640
Yeah and that again we cannot... what?

384
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,680
Be grateful enough for?

385
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:08,960
Yeah.

386
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:19,240
You don't understand how much actually goes through to protect the younger generation

387
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:22,400
until you witness it firsthand.

388
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:31,680
Obviously working maybe in education or something you don't know it's knowing what the procedures

389
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:42,040
are and how things are kept in place which that was all started or at least given how

390
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,520
brought to life.

391
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,840
Yeah brought to life exactly.

392
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,600
Why what happened here today.

393
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:54,240
Yeah well what we're talking about anyway.

394
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:59,280
On the other hand you know let's get into the darker side.

395
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:00,280
The father.

396
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,280
Yep.

397
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,280
Exactly.

398
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:03,280
Josef.

399
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,280
Not really it was Joseph.

400
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,280
It was Yusuf.

401
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,280
Yusuf.

402
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,280
Yusuf.

403
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:08,280
Yusuf.

404
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,280
Oh okay.

405
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,280
Yusuf.

406
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,280
I thought it was Joseph.

407
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,880
Joseph is the English word however.

408
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:15,880
Oh so Yusuf.

409
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,280
So you know Yusuf the accent on the word is that u.

410
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,280
Yusuf.

411
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:22,800
Okay right.

412
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:32,360
Anyway her father Yusuf faced a different reality after the tragic incident and following

413
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,840
Judith's death.

414
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:41,000
Yeah let me guess this he was arrested and charged with murder.

415
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,720
But the legal aftermath was complex so we're not going to go into that.

416
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:45,720
Yeah.

417
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:47,840
Surprise surprise you got arrested.

418
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:48,840
I'm glad actually.

419
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:49,840
I'm glad yeah.

420
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:50,840
I'm so happy.

421
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:56,040
So even though he didn't last long in prison and you shall soon find out why.

422
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:03,000
Yeah he he was charged with you know Judith's murder rightfully.

423
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,520
But in the years following the tragedy Yusuf struggled with his demons.

424
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:12,640
He faced a long history of alcoholism and mental health issues which contributed to

425
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,080
his abusive behavior.

426
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,720
You know this pattern of self-destruction led him to a downward spiral.

427
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,680
And led him to jail.

428
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:23,680
Whoopee.

429
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,720
I'm glad he's behind bars.

430
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:31,960
Or is he?

431
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:32,960
He died behind bars.

432
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,600
Yeah yeah he died behind bars.

433
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,760
He's probably still in the prison as a ghost.

434
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:44,360
Oh that would be a good episode of that 60s and 70s.

435
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,000
Visiting his ghost in jail.

436
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,240
Just to find out like what drove him to do that.

437
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:55,800
What fucked up mind made him do such a horrible thing.

438
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,840
And then he'd probably haunt us and kill us.

439
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:58,840
Yeah lovely.

440
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:05,320
In 1989 though let's go back in time.

441
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:10,360
Just a year after the death of Judith Yusuf took his own life.

442
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:15,960
But this is going back to it and obviously why he didn't survive long behind bars was

443
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,240
because he took his own life.

444
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:23,720
This end and this death left many questions unanswered.

445
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:28,280
And a community grappling with the horror of kind of what had transpired.

446
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:34,120
So he couldn't really tell them because he went to his grave with all of his knowledge

447
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:35,640
and everything that he did.

448
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:40,080
And you know most of the time that is a good thing.

449
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:46,720
You know sometimes ignorance is beautiful, not knowing what really goes on in the minds

450
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:49,840
of killers and people like that.

451
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,360
You know a soulless soulless person.

452
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:59,200
Sometimes not knowing why they'd done something is good.

453
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,480
But then again you know deep down everybody wants to answer.

454
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,360
Everybody wants to know why.

455
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,160
Like why?

456
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,360
Just crushing grief, had no remedy kind of thing.

457
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,240
Shout out to anyone who knows what that means.

458
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:18,720
We'll never find out why he'd done it.

459
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:27,720
But at least we know that he's not living a happy life that he did not deserve.

460
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:28,720
He was miserable.

461
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:33,720
Yeah and his death meant that many of the underlying issues that contributed to Judith's

462
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:38,280
tragic situation were never fully addressed.

463
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:43,200
There was a profound lack of understanding of the complexities of mental health and abuse

464
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,680
in families during that time.

465
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,840
You know people didn't know why things were happening.

466
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,560
We don't have a great understanding nowadays but never mind back then.

467
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,440
Back then it was even less.

468
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,280
Mental health wasn't a big thing back then that people looked upon.

469
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:08,520
You know you'd get thrown in the loony bin for signs of any sort of mental health issues.

470
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,880
Maybe not even issues, differences.

471
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,880
Yeah complexities.

472
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:22,840
Yeah people wouldn't study mental health but instead they'd just kind of ignore it and

473
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:28,760
you know not try and understand it.

474
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:34,560
It really is a massive kind of shame itself.

475
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:44,800
And this whole story, this whole past of the Barcy family reminds us that pain, I like

476
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:50,520
saying this kind of phrase, it reverberates through families and communities.

477
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:56,560
Like it bounces off everyone's minds and it's always lingering.

478
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,960
So both obviously Maria and Youssef faced consequences.

479
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:07,760
One through loss and grief and then obviously the other through tragedy and despair.

480
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:15,760
Yeah and it's so unfair that Maria had to go through something like that just because

481
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,200
Youssef was a dick.

482
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,920
I don't know what to call him.

483
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,120
Well I do but I cannot say that.

484
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:33,040
Yeah I don't know what to call him with it being too non-PG.

485
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,480
We need to keep it somewhat PG.

486
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,080
Yeah fuck that.

487
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,080
Yeah you f***.

488
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,080
He's just a f***ing c***.

489
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,080
That's the word I was going to use.

490
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:52,960
He was a see you next Tuesday.

491
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:59,640
I seen a TikTok yesterday and it was a kid give her dad a card.

492
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,840
Oh no her uncle a card.

493
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:02,840
I don't know.

494
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:03,840
Her uncle or dad.

495
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,200
And it was like a nice drawn card and it said C-U-N-T right?

496
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,040
It said c*** on it.

497
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,600
And they're like wait what?

498
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,040
And she's like yeah it says see you next time.

499
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,120
It's for see you next time.

500
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,760
And there are the families pissing themselves laughing and this little kid's like what?

501
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,200
Like I don't know what it means.

502
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:28,280
It's so sweet because the kid's trying to be cute.

503
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:32,400
The innocence of the child calling them the worst swear word possible.

504
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,080
I love you you're a c***.

505
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:39,040
You're a c*** how you doing?

506
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:46,560
Anyways their story serves as a chilling reminder of the importance of recognising signs of

507
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:52,360
distress and the need for intervention and family dynamics.

508
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,320
Which is a massive thing nowadays.

509
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,160
It's a massive stigma which is obviously is needed.

510
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,880
People should never feel like they can't intervene.

511
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,320
You know maybe don't intervene personally.

512
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:12,760
Don't walk up to someone and be like oh you're being a bad parent.

513
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:13,840
Intervene in different ways.

514
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:14,840
Intervene in a legal way.

515
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,840
Why are you being a bad parent?

516
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:18,840
Ask the questions.

517
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:19,840
Yeah report them.

518
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,120
Or speak to loved ones.

519
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:29,080
If you know the family and you know for example the grandmother is a great person be like

520
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,040
by the way I've seen this and this happened.

521
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,480
Do you know what's happening kind of thing?

522
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,920
Like bring it up to concerned family members.

523
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:42,000
Because they might have a bit more knowledge and depth into why it's happening but yeah.

524
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:47,280
And they've got the privilege of being part of that family.

525
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,280
Exactly.

526
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,760
So they can, they're the one who has to intervene if anything.

527
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,960
So you've helped and done a great thing.

528
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,120
But always reported to authorities as well.

529
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:57,120
Oh yeah massively.

530
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:02,280
That is the top thing you should do.

531
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:13,240
But yeah as a broader impact I think Judith's case has sparked discussions and well a lot

532
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:17,520
of discussions really about mental health awareness and the importance of supportive

533
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,800
systems for families dealing with trauma.

534
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:28,560
Which I believe is the greatest thing that anybody can do because quite obviously recently

535
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,960
and throughout obviously Covid which you know we're not hoping happens again and we're not

536
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,880
going to talk about.

537
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:43,760
Mental health has became this massive stigma and it is a problem which needs to be kind

538
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,880
of obtained and resolved because it's not going to get kind of resolved for a while

539
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,520
now but we're trying our best.

540
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,200
Mental health isn't getting better.

541
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,440
You know people aren't getting better.

542
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:04,560
The only thing we can do is raise more awareness and find ways to help people.

543
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:05,560
Exactly.

544
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:11,360
People should never ever ever ever be ashamed of mental health issues, their mental health

545
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:17,520
struggles or any sort of mental health they're going through.

546
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,560
And I know it's not comfortable to talk about and I know a lot of it is you don't want to

547
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:29,080
talk about it but at least try and get the help that's available and I know there's

548
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:33,160
literally only a fraction of the help that people need available.

549
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:41,960
However you know by raising awareness you know nowadays is the best way for mental health

550
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,960
is to make people aware that mental health exists.

551
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:55,520
If you or a loved one per se or even a friend is ever in need there are so many charities,

552
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:02,680
there are so many online obviously chat forums, there's a lot of things out there to help.

553
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:08,680
You've got the St Marithans, Mental Health Foundations, the NHS, you've got Mind, there's

554
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:14,240
so many things online and so many people you can talk to.

555
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:21,160
And if you're not comfortable with talking to someone face to face or you know not comfortable

556
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:27,000
with people knowing who you are or you feel scared about seeing a therapist, there are

557
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:33,840
hundreds upon hundreds of licensed therapists online that you can talk to through video

558
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,600
call, phone call or just online chat.

559
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,600
Next message.

560
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:39,600
Yeah.

561
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,840
Don't ever be afraid.

562
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:47,240
So many websites that offer the help that you may need.

563
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:48,720
Yeah.

564
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:56,240
And Maria's advocacy has highlighted the need for open conversations about child protection

565
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:01,720
and the resources available for families in crisis.

566
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:07,040
At Sixes and Sevens the podcast is sponsored by Mental Health.

567
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,040
Absolutely.

568
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:13,360
Yeah, we really are at this point because we both go through it and we understand the

569
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,440
struggles and complexities but...

570
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,640
And everybody listening goes through it because there's not a single person on earth that

571
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,380
doesn't go through mental health.

572
00:52:22,380 --> 00:52:25,320
And if you see you do, don't, you're lying.

573
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:26,320
Oh you do.

574
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:27,320
You do.

575
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,760
More than you think.

576
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,400
One day you wake up happy, one day you wake up sad.

577
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,480
It's all mental health.

578
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:45,520
But overall, Judith Barcy's legacy is one that underscores the importance of love, protection

579
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,320
and vigilance especially in the lives of children.

580
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:54,880
You know, both her mother and father's stories are part of a larger narrative that reminds

581
00:52:54,880 --> 00:53:02,480
us to foster safe and nurturing environments for the youngest among us.

582
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:10,120
Thank you for joining us as well as we reflect on the tragic yet convenient story of Judith

583
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:16,520
Barcy and the amount of lives affected by her loss.

584
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:23,200
Until next time, let's continue to raise awareness, advocate for change and strive to protect

585
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,680
children in all parts of our communities.

586
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:33,160
Healthy children but also yourself, look after yourself.

587
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Go buy that chocolate bar.

588
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,760
Go have that bath.

589
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,080
Go get up and do the laundry.

590
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,160
You know?

591
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:46,520
We love you, we appreciate you and we hope that you are okay.

592
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:58,160
But most important of all, love yourself.