WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.359 I mean, that has been actually the abiding thing 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:05.219 that I've always talked about since I started 00:00:05.219 --> 00:00:08.039 doing this. And very often with Antonin Urso 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:12.160 was humanizing the athletes. Because so many 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:15.380 of them have a fantastic story. There's a couple 00:00:15.380 --> 00:00:18.239 of athletes I know of their background. They 00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:20.640 were taken off the streets. They were orphans. 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:23.899 And they ended up being absolutely fantastic 00:00:23.899 --> 00:00:28.699 world championship medalists. Hi, Brian. It's 00:00:28.699 --> 00:00:30.820 my pleasure to have you on Evidence Strong Show. 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:32.820 If you could briefly introduce yourself. Yeah, 00:00:32.859 --> 00:00:37.420 Brian Oliver. I work now for the IWF website, 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.259 but in the past, I was a bit of an enemy of the 00:00:40.259 --> 00:00:43.780 IWF, you could say, because I worked for a website 00:00:43.780 --> 00:00:46.880 called Insight the Games, which was prominent 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:49.060 in reporting all the bad things that happened 00:00:49.060 --> 00:00:52.799 in weightlifting in the past 10 to 15 years. 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:00.520 english newspapers and was sports editor of one 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:03.100 of them when it got taken over by another newspaper 00:01:03.100 --> 00:01:06.260 and the best job in the world turned bad and 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:09.180 i ended up leaving resigned and went to work 00:01:09.180 --> 00:01:12.799 for london 2012 i knew i'd have a job there didn't 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:15.760 know what it would be it ended up being in as 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:17.879 the weightlifting media manager simply because 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:21.780 i had attended a famous session at the 1996 olympic 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:25.700 games and i enjoyed that a lot and the sport 00:01:25.700 --> 00:01:29.200 was so corrupt and newsy, full of doping and 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:31.280 corruption and all sorts of things, as well as 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:33.739 being very exciting. So I stayed with it. And 00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:37.099 in my freelance career, mostly did weightlifting 00:01:37.099 --> 00:01:40.319 and used to go to loads of football, cricket, 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:43.400 rugby matches, etc. But now I still go to football 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.560 as a personal enjoyment. But weightlifting is 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:48.980 the only sport I actually go to professionally. 00:01:49.219 --> 00:01:50.980 That was a bit of a long introduction. I'll have 00:01:50.980 --> 00:01:54.120 to edit that. No, that's OK. So it's 10 plus 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:57.250 years you covering. Weightlifting. You said why 00:01:57.250 --> 00:01:59.510 you started bar. Why have you stayed? I've stayed 00:01:59.510 --> 00:02:02.409 because I haven't been a weightlifting expert 00:02:02.409 --> 00:02:05.510 who does journalism. I've been a quite senior 00:02:05.510 --> 00:02:08.449 journalist who liked weightlifting. And the news 00:02:08.449 --> 00:02:11.129 in weightlifting was just off the scale compared 00:02:11.129 --> 00:02:13.310 to some other sports, the things that were happening. 00:02:13.550 --> 00:02:17.030 And I got to know quite a lot of people. I enjoyed 00:02:17.030 --> 00:02:19.330 it every time I went to a competition. I got 00:02:19.330 --> 00:02:21.770 to know more and more people. I still really 00:02:21.770 --> 00:02:24.210 like going. And although I've had a bit of a 00:02:24.210 --> 00:02:26.090 wobble in the past year. when I thought I might 00:02:26.090 --> 00:02:28.270 stop. The World Championships in Norway were 00:02:28.270 --> 00:02:30.870 so good, I'll keep going in tour. Los Angeles 00:02:30.870 --> 00:02:33.629 Olympics. Because of what you've said, maybe 00:02:33.629 --> 00:02:37.030 we will go to the biggest changes over the years 00:02:37.030 --> 00:02:40.189 you've been involved in and commenting on weightlifting. 00:02:40.469 --> 00:02:42.830 What were the biggest changes? Which ones you 00:02:42.830 --> 00:02:46.370 think were done well and which were big mistakes? 00:02:46.729 --> 00:02:48.430 Well, the first thing I'd say is there have been 00:02:48.430 --> 00:02:51.490 nowhere near enough changes. For example, one 00:02:51.490 --> 00:02:54.930 of the big points made by Antonio Urso was that 00:02:54.930 --> 00:02:58.319 the press -out rule should change. The officiating 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:01.139 should change. And there was no real sign of 00:03:01.139 --> 00:03:04.039 that happening. And by the way, that's sort of 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.060 a misnomer. It isn't the press out rule that 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:08.180 needs to change. It's the bending and extending 00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:11.419 rule. But I'll come to that again later. The 00:03:11.419 --> 00:03:13.780 changes that have happened, by far the biggest 00:03:13.780 --> 00:03:17.080 thing, was recovering from having three presidents 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:20.900 in two Ws in 2020 when everything was really 00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:25.449 bad to winning favour back from the IOC. and 00:03:25.449 --> 00:03:29.389 being retained for Paris and then get the go 00:03:29.389 --> 00:03:32.250 -ahead for Los Angeles and even getting the two 00:03:32.250 --> 00:03:34.689 extra places after it was five plus five, now 00:03:34.689 --> 00:03:37.310 it's six plus six. All of that was great. The 00:03:37.310 --> 00:03:40.949 other things that were particularly good, I suppose 00:03:40.949 --> 00:03:44.830 the big thing I've noticed is the growth of women's 00:03:44.830 --> 00:03:47.509 weightlifting during that period, which is definitely... 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:50.759 been bigger, I would say in terms of achievement 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.240 and in men's weightlifting. And one thing I especially 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:57.680 remember was going to Iran in 2018 and seeing 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.979 an eight year old girl on a platform when the 00:04:00.979 --> 00:04:04.099 local soldiers tried to stop her coming in because 00:04:04.099 --> 00:04:06.789 women weren't allowed. This was the event where 00:04:06.789 --> 00:04:10.110 they were. And finally, Iran allowed women to 00:04:10.110 --> 00:04:12.129 do weightlifting, which they had never done before. 00:04:12.330 --> 00:04:15.270 And even this week in the Islamic Solidarity 00:04:15.270 --> 00:04:17.949 Games, Iran's women won a couple of medals. And 00:04:17.949 --> 00:04:20.870 that's very good. And it is slowly happening 00:04:20.870 --> 00:04:23.949 all around the Gulf because Qatar also won the 00:04:23.949 --> 00:04:26.720 super heavyweights. in the women in the Islamic 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.319 Solidarity Games. And that is also a landmark 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.459 achievement. Then from a personal point of view, 00:04:32.540 --> 00:04:36.699 going to China in 2019 for about a week, just 00:04:36.699 --> 00:04:41.069 being taken around to... primary schools to bigger 00:04:41.069 --> 00:04:45.170 schools to the state or province training center 00:04:45.170 --> 00:04:49.569 meeting the greatest coach one of the best scientific 00:04:49.569 --> 00:04:53.410 analysts and so on are just learning have within 00:04:53.410 --> 00:04:56.610 a translator all the time anybody would speak 00:04:56.610 --> 00:04:59.189 to me it was just fascinating learning a lot 00:04:59.189 --> 00:05:02.410 about how things work in china obviously seeing 00:05:02.410 --> 00:05:05.459 a lot of the best weightlifters like Deng Wei, 00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:09.720 Lu Xiaojun, Soren Moradi, Katerina Li Wenwen, 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:13.079 Ia Yin and all this. That's all great. But from 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:16.100 a wider perspective, it was the women, the China. 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.360 And the thing I'd like to say that... The biggest 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.600 story definitely wasn't is transgender issues 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:25.579 in weightlifting because weightlifting was the 00:05:25.579 --> 00:05:28.339 one sport that had the most visible transgender 00:05:28.339 --> 00:05:31.860 presence with Laurel Hubbard. But people go on 00:05:31.860 --> 00:05:33.920 and on and on about it. But there won't ever 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.740 be another one in my view. And there was a story 00:05:36.740 --> 00:05:38.579 in a British newspaper last week in the Daily 00:05:38.579 --> 00:05:41.500 Mail about how transgender weightlifters are 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:43.439 not blocked from competing in the Commonwealth 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.259 Games. Well, it was just ridiculous because how 00:05:46.259 --> 00:05:49.439 many are there? There are none. I reckon by the 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:51.939 time I die, there won't be one more because they 00:05:51.939 --> 00:05:54.500 can't get in there. Looking back at 13 years 00:05:54.500 --> 00:05:57.379 of involvement, what do you think were the biggest 00:05:57.379 --> 00:06:00.399 mistakes? Well, they were all political. There 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.019 was this thing, the old guard versus the reformers, 00:06:04.019 --> 00:06:05.639 which I expect you know about. They were the 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:10.240 people in control. And they didn't change or 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.720 stick to the constitution. And to be honest, 00:06:13.819 --> 00:06:16.339 sometimes they still don't. They didn't welcome 00:06:16.339 --> 00:06:19.230 the investigation. by McLaren into the corruption, 00:06:19.449 --> 00:06:21.470 which is understandable because they were the 00:06:21.470 --> 00:06:23.509 people being investigated. But they weren't going 00:06:23.509 --> 00:06:26.529 to stop there once it started. They should have 00:06:26.529 --> 00:06:30.149 just sort of capitulated, really. The game was 00:06:30.149 --> 00:06:32.910 up. It went on and on and dragged on. And it 00:06:32.910 --> 00:06:36.089 was really, when Ursula Papandrea came in as 00:06:36.089 --> 00:06:38.930 interim president, wow, that was, it was tough. 00:06:39.149 --> 00:06:41.709 And there was that time when they really did 00:06:41.709 --> 00:06:44.790 have three presidents in two days. And it was 00:06:44.790 --> 00:06:47.790 just a mess. It was really worse. It was all 00:06:47.790 --> 00:06:50.689 political. Everything they did wrong was a result, 00:06:50.769 --> 00:06:53.370 as it always is, of people wanting to stay in 00:06:53.370 --> 00:06:56.689 power when it's time to go. And really, the biggest 00:06:56.689 --> 00:06:59.810 consequence of that, all that sort of trying 00:06:59.810 --> 00:07:01.829 to protect... themselves is that they didn't 00:07:01.829 --> 00:07:04.110 look ahead, that they weren't changing the things 00:07:04.110 --> 00:07:06.209 that needed to change. It might be to do with 00:07:06.209 --> 00:07:09.050 presentation or rules or whatever. They just, 00:07:09.110 --> 00:07:11.889 it wasn't on the agenda because they were completely 00:07:11.889 --> 00:07:15.250 consumed by protecting themselves. So that's 00:07:15.250 --> 00:07:17.670 overwhelmingly the worst things that happened. 00:07:17.850 --> 00:07:19.889 You know what I'm thinking? Okay, there are problems 00:07:19.889 --> 00:07:22.750 and so on, but kicking out the sport out of Olympics 00:07:22.750 --> 00:07:26.230 is a very hard, because the sport is not only 00:07:26.230 --> 00:07:28.350 the leadership at the top of the organization. 00:07:28.509 --> 00:07:31.519 These are committees for each country these are 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:34.560 athletes and their families and in australia 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.860 i can choose to be elite weightlifter and i support 00:07:37.860 --> 00:07:40.379 myself and i support my passion for the sport 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:42.800 and my competition but there are countries that 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.600 have that take kids through the system and the 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.579 kids end up being professional athletes who are 00:07:49.579 --> 00:07:53.079 on salary governmental salary so are their families 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:56.600 so it's if the sport is kicked out of the olympics 00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:59.660 all the countries that have system will not have 00:07:59.660 --> 00:08:02.000 these systems. So all the athletes will have 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.079 to find other jobs and so on. So it seems like 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:08.199 a very harsh treatment for the sport and the 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:11.379 athletes. Absolutely. Very harsh and you're punishing 00:08:11.379 --> 00:08:14.100 the wrong people. So as you say, these systems, 00:08:14.180 --> 00:08:18.990 for example, in China, Romania, Iran. wherever 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:21.889 they exist. The funding is there. The system 00:08:21.889 --> 00:08:23.949 is there. Colombia is another one. Okay, they've 00:08:23.949 --> 00:08:26.110 had doping problems in the past, a lot of these 00:08:26.110 --> 00:08:29.389 places. But it's much better to overcome those 00:08:29.389 --> 00:08:32.309 problems, to clean up, if you can, and keep things 00:08:32.309 --> 00:08:34.950 going, than it is to kick out all the people 00:08:34.950 --> 00:08:37.509 who are not responsible for the bad governance 00:08:37.509 --> 00:08:40.909 and the corruption. Absolutely. I mean, you never 00:08:40.909 --> 00:08:43.129 know for sure. It's possible, but it was all 00:08:43.129 --> 00:08:45.769 part of a strategy anyway. Just keep threatening 00:08:45.769 --> 00:08:47.809 them, keep threatening them, and eventually they... 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:50.200 will go even if that maybe they never would have 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:52.639 kicked weightlifting out but they certainly behaved 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.360 as if they would and they had grounds to do it 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.580 as well even if it was unfair they could have 00:08:57.580 --> 00:09:00.039 done it but i would also say at this point that 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:03.360 weightlifting has taken a hell of a lot of flack 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.480 quite rightly but other sports also have their 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.039 doping and they don't seem to have any in this 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.559 problem whatsoever like uh well look how many 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:14.120 everybody knows people are doping in athletics 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.000 in cycling cycling doesn't particularly have 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:19.419 a bad reputation but what about judo wrestling 00:09:19.419 --> 00:09:21.879 boxing and so forth if you look at the wider 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:24.340 reports and the percentage of positive tests 00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:26.639 they're not wildly different to weightlifting 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.500 they often carry out anywhere near as many tests 00:09:29.500 --> 00:09:32.899 but weightlifting is sort of painters the bad 00:09:32.899 --> 00:09:36.480 boy or if you like but if the statistics don't 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:38.600 really show that to be the case, or at least 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:41.179 there are lots of bad ones, not just one. And 00:09:41.179 --> 00:09:44.100 athletics, for example, had huge topping scandals 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:48.820 in the past too. And I think they went on punishing 00:09:48.820 --> 00:09:51.379 the specific people who were responsible, not 00:09:51.379 --> 00:09:53.879 the treatment was not kicking out the whole sport 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:56.159 out of Olympics. No, they couldn't do that because 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:58.620 it's the biggest sport in the Olympics. But then 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:01.200 another thing positive about weightlifting is 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.240 look at how many members it's got. It must be 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:06.600 after the athletics. I should know this, but 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:09.700 it must be in a top three or four in terms of 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:13.000 world spread. You mean like how many world countries 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.200 are associated? Yeah, not just how many countries 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.980 are members. That's not really a solid fact because 00:10:18.980 --> 00:10:21.580 a lot of the members don't actually have any 00:10:21.580 --> 00:10:24.000 weightlifters. They're just there because they're 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.679 a vote. But they do have actively a heck of a 00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:30.720 lot of member federations. They have an enormous 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.279 spread of medal winners. You look at which continents, 00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:35.610 which countries. the Olympic Games and World 00:10:35.610 --> 00:10:38.350 Championships medalists come from. It's way more 00:10:38.350 --> 00:10:41.090 diverse, if you like, than other sports. Way 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:44.190 more. And that's another good thing. It isn't 00:10:44.190 --> 00:10:46.889 really a particularly expensive sport to do. 00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:49.830 And I would say if you compare it to boxing, 00:10:49.889 --> 00:10:51.730 I know women's boxing is growing, but I would 00:10:51.730 --> 00:10:53.990 think women's weightlifting is in a much stronger 00:10:53.990 --> 00:10:56.409 position, for example, than women's boxing. It's 00:10:56.409 --> 00:10:59.090 more established. It's just, I don't know, it's 00:10:59.090 --> 00:11:00.970 been around longer. So I suppose that's what 00:11:00.970 --> 00:11:04.409 it is. Yeah, that and Rise of CrossFit. Changes 00:11:04.409 --> 00:11:07.909 a little bit also in how women are perceived 00:11:07.909 --> 00:11:11.289 and how women's bodies perceived and how much 00:11:11.289 --> 00:11:14.509 freedoms women have. Freedoms in a sense that 00:11:14.509 --> 00:11:18.389 is this push to equal participation in sports 00:11:18.389 --> 00:11:21.289 and so on. So that's an opportunity. And I think 00:11:21.289 --> 00:11:24.409 weightlifting used this opportunity pretty all 00:11:24.409 --> 00:11:27.909 right in many countries. Oh, absolutely. If I 00:11:27.909 --> 00:11:30.710 listed all my current favorite weightlifters, 00:11:30.850 --> 00:11:33.840 I reckon there would be 80 % women. least and 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.320 from all parts of the world and i have the utmost 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:39.840 respect for all weightlifters and coaches that 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:42.279 they're what they do is unbelievably difficult 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:44.659 well done to them for doing it but that some 00:11:44.659 --> 00:11:47.460 of what particular women do is just it's amazing 00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:50.440 you know aiglo from iceland i don't know if you 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:53.460 know her she's that she's top 10 she is studying 00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:56.820 to be a doctor at the same time that she's one 00:11:56.820 --> 00:11:59.059 of the top 10 weightlifters in the world seven 00:11:59.059 --> 00:12:02.039 years of study i think that's stunning and then 00:12:02.379 --> 00:12:04.700 They're all right there. I wrote some names down 00:12:04.700 --> 00:12:06.559 there. Yeah, let's go there. Let's go there. 00:12:06.580 --> 00:12:09.179 Tell me your favorite weightlifters and why they 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:12.159 are your favorite. Olivia Reeves, just unbelievable 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:16.460 for so many six from six. So she's just, she's 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:18.919 the best, probably the best female weightlifter, 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.740 I think, in the time that I've been involved 00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:23.159 in the sport. And she just does a little smile, 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:25.759 skips off the plaque. She's just done something. 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:29.330 And I actually now. One of the great things that 00:12:29.330 --> 00:12:31.850 I enjoy now is that the people from North Korea 00:12:31.850 --> 00:12:35.309 actually speak to me and privately and very occasionally 00:12:35.309 --> 00:12:39.009 for publication. So do you speak in English? 00:12:39.230 --> 00:12:42.429 One of them does. He also, he was very honest 00:12:42.429 --> 00:12:44.509 about Olivia Reeves. He said that, you know, 00:12:44.529 --> 00:12:46.529 they wanted to take her on at the world championships. 00:12:46.649 --> 00:12:48.490 She went to a different weight category. The 00:12:48.490 --> 00:12:51.049 person, the athlete that would have competed 00:12:51.049 --> 00:12:53.529 against her, Song Kook -hyun, was it, I think. 00:12:53.590 --> 00:12:56.009 She broke world record. But even then, he says, 00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:57.940 still, I'm not sure. we would have beaten Olivia 00:12:57.940 --> 00:13:01.600 Reeves. Well, who would? Who did recently? You 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:04.899 know, she's outstanding. Then Maude Charon, Aydlin 00:13:04.899 --> 00:13:08.500 Diaz, Solfrid from Norway, qualified electrician 00:13:08.500 --> 00:13:10.419 who becomes an Olympic champion. I think that's 00:13:10.419 --> 00:13:13.659 fantastic. Emily Campbell in Britain also. What 00:13:13.659 --> 00:13:16.200 you were saying about women's bodies and image, 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.320 she's great in promoting women's weightlifting. 00:13:19.539 --> 00:13:23.320 And then further back, Denway. And I really love 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:26.620 Ri Song -geum, the one from North Korea now, 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.539 48 kilos. She's just phenomenal. So, and of the 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:33.460 younger ones, I think, Jarlok Simono from Canada. 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:35.639 She's also going to be very good. But then there 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.279 are so many. Look at how many they produced. 00:13:37.419 --> 00:13:41.700 The new one who changed from Colombia to... ingrid 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:44.980 vanessa segura she is still a junior and she's 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:48.080 going to be very very good also i love watching 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:50.500 young ones who you just know they're going to 00:13:50.500 --> 00:13:52.519 be good so going to youth world championships 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:56.080 and junior world championships sometimes in one 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:57.940 or two years it might be better than going to 00:13:57.940 --> 00:14:00.120 the senior world championships because you see 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:02.659 people and you think wow that's very impressive 00:14:02.659 --> 00:14:05.100 and you see countries as well that are changing 00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:08.700 for example india okay nobody's heard of many 00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:11.519 of their lesser or younger athletes at the moment, 00:14:11.620 --> 00:14:13.820 but they're really, they're almost doing like 00:14:13.820 --> 00:14:15.860 China. They're putting a lot of money in. They're 00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:18.899 doing a lot of talent ID. They're getting kids 00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:21.799 aged 10, 11, 12. They've already got loads aged 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:25.200 16, 17, 18 because they want to bid for the Olympic 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:28.720 Games in 2036. And it's impressive. They're doing 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.440 really well. Of the men, I shouldn't forget the 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.080 men. My favourite weightlifter of all time is 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:36.500 probably Precious McKenzie, who most people have 00:14:36.500 --> 00:14:39.059 never heard of, who didn't ever win at the Olympics. 00:14:39.230 --> 00:14:42.730 games but he was the first person in any sport 00:14:42.730 --> 00:14:45.210 to win four gold medals at the commonwealth games 00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:47.870 and he became quite a friend of the queen in 00:14:47.870 --> 00:14:50.990 england and the royal family and uh when he was 00:14:50.990 --> 00:14:53.850 a an infant his mother was an alcoholic his dad 00:14:53.850 --> 00:14:56.610 got killed by a crocodile he fell in a cesspit 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:00.049 and nearly drowned in human excrement and then 00:15:00.049 --> 00:15:04.169 he was a victim of extreme racism of apartheid 00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:07.570 in south africa he escaped went to britain and 00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:11.149 he fought for 10 and he's just a fantastic man 00:15:11.149 --> 00:15:13.450 there should have been a film about him he's 00:15:13.450 --> 00:15:17.809 amazing of the More recent ones, obviously, Lasha, 00:15:17.929 --> 00:15:21.230 Sara Maradi, Lu Xiaojun, et cetera, et cetera, 00:15:21.490 --> 00:15:24.710 and Karas Nassar now. The most uplifting thing 00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.129 lately, one of the best stories since I've been 00:15:28.129 --> 00:15:31.029 doing this was meeting John Mao from Germany 00:15:31.029 --> 00:15:35.129 in Norway and hearing about his experiences because 00:15:35.129 --> 00:15:37.809 he was returning after two and a half, three 00:15:37.809 --> 00:15:40.429 years away because he had cancer and he had six 00:15:40.429 --> 00:15:43.460 months of chemo. And he had Hodgkin's lymphoma. 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.919 He could have died. And he would recover from 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.179 that. And there he was at the World Championships. 00:15:50.299 --> 00:15:52.679 And he's back in business, which is just fantastic. 00:15:53.059 --> 00:15:56.159 It comes across that you think that athletes 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.799 should be put first, which I actually agree with. 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:02.039 How do you think it could be done? Well, the 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:06.600 people on the IWF board need to be more open 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.559 to what athletes think. And they're there. They 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.940 have a... presence, but I'm not sure they do. 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:16.600 And the way in which they would make the biggest 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.940 difference in my view is to do with the rules. 00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:22.340 So this happened in Norway as well. You could 00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:24.720 see it. There was one athlete from North Korea 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.000 who was, who lost the world record, won the gold 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.639 anyway, on deliberate oscillation. And there 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.600 was a lot of controversy, a lot of talk about 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.399 that. Well, and I know also that Carlos Nassar 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:37.879 was told before he lifted that if you do it again. 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.379 you'll get a no lift because he does it. And 00:16:40.379 --> 00:16:42.899 I think that's perfectly fair. Oscillation is 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:45.659 a deliberate attempt to gain an advantage. So 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:47.960 you shouldn't do it. But all this bending and 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:50.379 extending, it's not deliberate. If you're lifting 00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:53.080 100 or 200 kilos up above your head and your 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.299 arms make minute movements involuntarily, which 00:16:56.299 --> 00:16:58.639 they do, you're not seeking to gain an advantage. 00:16:58.820 --> 00:17:01.720 And I think they should change the rules. I don't 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:03.360 know exactly how. There are people who know a 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.680 lot more about this than I do. But bending it 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.559 and extending or the press out rule. is it causes 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.640 a lot of trouble. It really does. And this is 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.059 what Antonio Erso was talking about. He's now 00:17:14.059 --> 00:17:18.339 left. But in 2022 and 2023, you've got to simplify 00:17:18.339 --> 00:17:21.160 the rules. And the one thing that would change 00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:23.539 is if you could have, I don't know if you could 00:17:23.539 --> 00:17:25.839 just write it into the rules or just have it 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.319 as an attitude, is to give the athlete the benefit 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:31.240 of the doubt, which never happens. The rule book 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:33.680 gets the benefit of the doubt every time. And 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.519 when there's some, it's just a tiny little movement. 00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:39.539 nobody's tried to cheat nobody's tried to gain 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:42.740 anything and yet it's a no lift and all this 00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:45.660 has come to light really since video replays 00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:48.000 all sports rules were invented by humans for 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.579 humans with human eyesight but no you've got 00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:52.920 more than human eyesight and philosophically 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.539 i think that's questionable if you have a replay 00:17:55.539 --> 00:17:57.900 play it at normal speed because that's what the 00:17:57.900 --> 00:17:59.960 human eye sees that's what the audience sees 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:02.079 giving the athletes the benefit of the doubt 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.579 in rules would make a big difference but also 00:18:04.579 --> 00:18:07.680 little things like the weigh -in and just organizational 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:10.559 balls -ups like in the in the african championships 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.079 about three years ago they had a platform that 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.380 was moving all over the place it was just terrible 00:18:15.380 --> 00:18:18.599 dangerous at the islamic solidarity games which 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.220 have just finished in riyadh they had only four 00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:24.420 indoor platforms in the The training, the others 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:27.259 had to go outdoors as well. Why? And then the 00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:30.579 uniform allowance, that was a big unnecessary 00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:33.539 row. Common sense, they could have sorted that 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:35.859 out straight away. Then again, with the weigh 00:18:35.859 --> 00:18:38.140 -in, you get complaints from referees as well 00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:39.940 as athletes. You've got to go to the competition 00:18:39.940 --> 00:18:43.220 venue two hours before the first session for 00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:45.019 your weigh -in. Suppose the first session's at 00:18:45.019 --> 00:18:47.039 nine o 'clock. You've got to be there at 7am. 00:18:47.259 --> 00:18:49.140 Why can't you have the weigh -in in the hotel 00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:52.259 where the athletes are staying? And if there 00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:54.559 are three hotels, have it in three or just have 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.980 it in the one with the most athletes. And then 00:18:56.980 --> 00:18:58.579 you haven't got to do all this traveling. And 00:18:58.579 --> 00:19:01.579 then there are other things. So, for example, 00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:04.940 there is a super heavyweight from Pakistan who 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:07.640 allied himself with somebody in the federation 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.460 against the wishes of the president of the federation. 00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:13.779 And for political reasons, he got dropped. He 00:19:13.779 --> 00:19:16.599 won the gold medal at the Commonwealth Games. 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:19.700 He was a potential, you know, world championships 00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:22.319 top 10 or something. They just kicked him out 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:26.400 for political reasons. I think instances like 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.740 that, again, give the athlete the benefit of 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:30.720 the doubt. Somebody should be able to step in 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.059 and do something about that, especially the Athletes' 00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.140 Commission. Another example, there's a woman, 00:19:35.259 --> 00:19:38.259 Maddy Ndake, who now competes for Britain, who 00:19:38.259 --> 00:19:40.839 was competing for Cameroon. She won a bronze 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.579 medal at the Olympic Games in London 2012 on 00:19:43.579 --> 00:19:46.180 a disqualification for doping. She's never got 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:48.180 her medal because she was over here when it was 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:50.579 sent to Cameroon. Where is it? The president 00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:53.440 of the Cameroon Federation is on the IWF board. 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:56.200 Can't he just deliver this medal? No. Well, again, 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:58.359 the Athletes' Commission for something like that 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:01.119 should just immediately get involved and get 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.480 her medal. And that sort of thing doesn't happen. 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.759 And also, Athletes' Commissions, which are fantastic, 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.980 they can become as political. as other commissions 00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:13.240 and committees and the executive board and so 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:15.380 on, and that's not a good thing. I think it happened 00:20:15.380 --> 00:20:18.099 recently in Europe. Often, again, be too negative 00:20:18.099 --> 00:20:20.900 because it's good, and you can't say every athlete 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:23.940 going to be a contributor to a change is going 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:27.160 to have good opinions, well expressed. But overall, 00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:29.880 there's still a long way to go to get athletes, 00:20:30.019 --> 00:20:33.579 and to some extent coaches involved more in certain 00:20:33.579 --> 00:20:36.519 decisions, particularly about rules. I think 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:39.680 traditionally that was how it was. there was 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.279 a decision about the rules changes or weight 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:45.240 class changes for that matter and everyone else 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.680 had to scramble to adjust and even for the between 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.599 you know right before Tokyo 2018 change of weight 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.259 classes and from there there was three other 00:20:56.259 --> 00:20:59.619 weight classes recent one just two weeks ago 00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:02.660 for athletes who are developing weightlifting 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.799 is not a sport that you train for six weeks you 00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:09.380 need years to prepare for Olympic So for worlds, 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:13.920 for meddling at the senior elite events, if you 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.789 changed weight classes frequently. It's very 00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:21.009 hard for the athletes to aim at optimal development 00:21:21.009 --> 00:21:24.190 for where they want to go because it changes 00:21:24.190 --> 00:21:28.289 so quickly. And no one is asking athletes what 00:21:28.289 --> 00:21:30.970 they think about it. And if athletes are voicing, 00:21:31.210 --> 00:21:34.369 then no one is listening. Well, that's not actually 00:21:34.369 --> 00:21:38.210 true because they do. They can't ratify those 00:21:38.210 --> 00:21:40.609 weight classes until the Athletes' Commission 00:21:40.609 --> 00:21:42.950 approves them. But that's at the end of the process. 00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:45.769 not the beginning there will be some athlete 00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:49.150 involvement but there's nowhere near enough widespread 00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:53.289 consultation on weight classes qualifying programs 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:56.630 etc i don't think data analysis is something 00:21:56.630 --> 00:22:00.789 that's particularly hot at the top of the iwf 00:22:00.789 --> 00:22:04.730 so but if you had a lot of input from scientists 00:22:04.730 --> 00:22:08.170 on really basic things like average body weight 00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:10.809 and physique in different countries and different 00:22:10.809 --> 00:22:15.009 continents and what's a safe percentage to increase 00:22:15.009 --> 00:22:17.849 from one body weight category to the next body 00:22:17.849 --> 00:22:20.690 weight category and so on and so on one of the 00:22:20.690 --> 00:22:25.269 athletes in this most recent decision about weight 00:22:25.269 --> 00:22:28.869 categories for los angeles from germany had carried 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:32.299 out some investigations. And she kept trying 00:22:32.299 --> 00:22:34.339 to contact the Athletes' Commission, but then 00:22:34.339 --> 00:22:37.279 she couldn't reply. But she did in the end, and 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:39.500 everything she said made sense. You've just got 00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:42.420 to go more with science, and you've got to have 00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:45.400 more consultation. But it isn't even just science 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.579 and physique and the human body. It's also important 00:22:49.579 --> 00:22:52.819 for broadcasters, for people that pay the money 00:22:52.819 --> 00:22:55.400 to the sport. It's important to all sorts of 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:58.759 stakeholders. And I don't know if that really... 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:01.880 happens that you know everybody has a say but 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:04.900 certainly even if not everyone is able to take 00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:09.420 part in decision if it is done in visible way 00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:13.220 that people have time to adjust and speak up 00:23:13.220 --> 00:23:16.799 and good points are brought up then wouldn't 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.259 it make the decision better wouldn't it make 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:23.980 it more informed and better for i guess as always 00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:27.039 it will involve some politics and so on but i 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:29.579 think it could be a little bit better. Yeah, 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.039 for sure. When you think about weightlifting 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:35.180 as a whole, this must be one of the top three 00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:37.769 most important things in the sport. And yet he's 00:23:37.769 --> 00:23:40.609 decided by a committee who then put their findings 00:23:40.609 --> 00:23:44.190 to the board and then they ratify it. It is, 00:23:44.230 --> 00:23:47.170 as you say, it's all a bit close. Okay, there 00:23:47.170 --> 00:23:49.609 are lots of things that happened. You know, their 00:23:49.609 --> 00:23:52.589 technical regulations, which hotel you're going 00:23:52.589 --> 00:23:55.109 to stay at, how big your logo can be in your 00:23:55.109 --> 00:23:58.049 uniform, whatever. There are all sorts of regulatory 00:23:58.049 --> 00:24:01.950 decisions that don't need to be out in the public. 00:24:02.069 --> 00:24:04.769 But when it comes to this, it would be good if 00:24:04.769 --> 00:24:07.369 it was more visible for sure. How to make it 00:24:07.369 --> 00:24:10.650 better with the use of media? Well, that wouldn't 00:24:10.650 --> 00:24:14.670 be easy because it's barely had any media presence 00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:17.970 on a global scale. And all the time I've been 00:24:17.970 --> 00:24:20.430 involved in it. So there will be people writing 00:24:20.430 --> 00:24:23.210 seriously about weightlifting in China. And it 00:24:23.210 --> 00:24:25.569 does get a lot of coverage in certain countries 00:24:25.569 --> 00:24:29.549 like Iran, Armenia, whatever, and Colombia. Look 00:24:29.549 --> 00:24:31.849 at USA Weightlifting. Fantastic organization, 00:24:32.130 --> 00:24:34.769 done a great job. But how much mainstream media 00:24:34.769 --> 00:24:37.630 coverage does it get for athletes? Not a lot. 00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:40.369 And also inside the games where I worked was 00:24:40.369 --> 00:24:44.049 taken over by who knows, Russians probably. And 00:24:44.049 --> 00:24:46.509 they stopped covering weightlifting about just 00:24:46.509 --> 00:24:48.950 over two years ago. They've just started again, 00:24:49.029 --> 00:24:51.970 but they don't go to events. It's not really 00:24:51.970 --> 00:24:54.329 credible. So therefore, you end up with what 00:24:54.329 --> 00:24:56.130 you've got. You've got, as you've always had, 00:24:56.230 --> 00:24:58.609 hook grip, all things gym. I have a lot of respect. 00:24:58.670 --> 00:25:00.769 bet for them they do a good job they're important 00:25:00.769 --> 00:25:03.049 they do promote the sport everybody knows them 00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:04.890 then you've had weightlifting house come along 00:25:04.890 --> 00:25:08.430 and this is all more this is all videos pretty 00:25:08.430 --> 00:25:12.009 much that's what people want it's allies to selling 00:25:12.009 --> 00:25:15.490 products which if that's what you need for their 00:25:15.490 --> 00:25:18.210 presence then that's what you have and i'd say 00:25:18.210 --> 00:25:21.509 definitely weightlifting house has taken the 00:25:21.509 --> 00:25:23.710 video content you know the little documentaries 00:25:23.710 --> 00:25:26.250 and so on to another level in the past year or 00:25:26.250 --> 00:25:29.539 so which is good. But it is, as it's always going 00:25:29.539 --> 00:25:32.980 to be now, all social media. And again, that's 00:25:32.980 --> 00:25:36.240 good. Individuals can have their own big presence, 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:38.579 but there are drawbacks. Well, there has been 00:25:38.579 --> 00:25:41.759 quite a discussion, including by the Athletes' 00:25:41.779 --> 00:25:44.019 Commission, that too many weightlifters now are 00:25:44.019 --> 00:25:47.220 more interested in filming themselves in training 00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:49.599 and putting themselves on social media than they 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.420 are in winning competitions. But that's a subject 00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:54.839 for discussion, I should think. But what I would 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:57.980 say is that social media media is good for the 00:25:57.980 --> 00:26:00.920 sport obviously and a lot of good changes have 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:04.200 come since it and but the social media presence 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.339 a big social media presence doesn't equate to 00:26:07.339 --> 00:26:10.660 talent and it doesn't equate to newsworthiness 00:26:10.660 --> 00:26:14.259 and i do think sometimes that some particularly 00:26:14.259 --> 00:26:17.559 young lifters don't really get a mention don't 00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:20.990 get a look in on some of the platforms. For example, 00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:24.170 when you're previewing a championship, some don't 00:26:24.170 --> 00:26:26.009 get a mention and they're obviously going to 00:26:26.009 --> 00:26:28.529 be medal contenders, but they don't have a big 00:26:28.529 --> 00:26:31.029 social media presence, if any. And there was 00:26:31.029 --> 00:26:34.609 a good example of that in Norway where the Egyptian 00:26:34.609 --> 00:26:37.549 Abdo Yunus was, you know, the next big thing 00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:39.630 in weightlifting, but he hadn't really won anything 00:26:39.630 --> 00:26:42.930 yet and he didn't win anything in Norway except 00:26:42.930 --> 00:26:45.289 bronze medal. And he is going to be very good, 00:26:45.430 --> 00:26:48.650 but it's because of social media. presented in 00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:51.519 that way. Because he was telling people, I'm 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:55.000 that good. Come on, become the world champion 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:58.740 first. And then I would say China and North Korea 00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:03.279 are sort of still underplayed. I could name, 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.200 for example, Albert de los Santos from the Philippines. 00:27:07.579 --> 00:27:11.160 He has a presence here and there. And he's exceptionally 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.539 good. Exceptionally good. But he's not really 00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:17.859 talked about, for example, as a medal contender, 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:20.779 I think. He will be. And then in the United States, 00:27:21.099 --> 00:27:23.900 Colby Ferguson and Aaron Williams get a lot of 00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:27.140 airtime, if you like. Caden Cahoy. I would say 00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:30.160 he's got a good chance of being top six in Los 00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:32.640 Angeles, maybe a medal. I don't know. He doesn't 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:35.200 get much. I don't know how it all worked exactly. 00:27:35.539 --> 00:27:37.960 And of course, it's all subjective anyway. The 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.259 presentation of the whole competition has to 00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:43.460 be better. If Waitlisting House can present those 00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:46.880 very good videos away from the platform, if you 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:50.650 like, in training, little interviews in... while 00:27:50.650 --> 00:27:52.569 somebody's having a meal, whatever. You ought 00:27:52.569 --> 00:27:54.869 to be able to jazz it up in the competition and 00:27:54.869 --> 00:27:57.150 have a lot more competition content. But the 00:27:57.150 --> 00:27:59.829 competitions aren't jazzed up. There's too much 00:27:59.829 --> 00:28:03.490 dead time. There's often no crowd out there or 00:28:03.490 --> 00:28:06.240 very small crowd. That's another point. going 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.819 off tangent but the difference between a competition 00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:11.299 with a big crowd in and a competition with no 00:28:11.299 --> 00:28:14.240 crowd in is immeasurable it really is when you've 00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:16.700 got a lot of noise for an example in the 2023 00:28:16.700 --> 00:28:19.720 European Championships in Yerevan in Armenia 00:28:20.650 --> 00:28:23.529 It was nearly full or full all the time. There 00:28:23.529 --> 00:28:25.430 were a thousand people couldn't get in for the 00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:27.769 Super Heavyweights. 6 ,000 people in there a 00:28:27.769 --> 00:28:30.210 lot of the time. It was fantastic. And also, 00:28:30.309 --> 00:28:32.650 of course, any Olympic Games, Commonwealth Games 00:28:32.650 --> 00:28:35.269 is full. All the tickets are sold. It was great. 00:28:35.470 --> 00:28:38.809 And the presentation at the Birmingham 2022 Commonwealth 00:28:38.809 --> 00:28:42.009 Games was fantastic with all the two people buzzing 00:28:42.009 --> 00:28:44.049 around the audience, all the audience engagement. 00:28:44.210 --> 00:28:46.549 They were interviewing ex -athletes, interviewing 00:28:46.549 --> 00:28:49.630 people in the crowd. That was really exemplary. 00:28:49.930 --> 00:28:52.490 the IWF leadership was there and they could see 00:28:52.490 --> 00:28:55.130 how good it was but nothing really has happened 00:28:55.130 --> 00:28:57.869 since then. So what I'm hearing is that you're 00:28:57.869 --> 00:29:00.609 creating some storytelling which is very hard 00:29:00.609 --> 00:29:03.730 to do in a very short social media format if 00:29:03.730 --> 00:29:07.789 we think reels or shorts where you have 30 seconds 00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:10.509 maybe to a minute and that's it. So it's very 00:29:10.509 --> 00:29:13.269 hard to show the depth of the stories of the 00:29:13.269 --> 00:29:16.490 athletes and coaches and teams and rivalries 00:29:16.490 --> 00:29:19.430 between countries and between parties. athletes 00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:22.230 in the weight class or whatever. It's hard. That 00:29:22.230 --> 00:29:25.390 has been actually the abiding thing that I've 00:29:25.390 --> 00:29:28.470 always talked about since I started doing this. 00:29:28.589 --> 00:29:32.210 And very often with Antonin Urso was humanizing 00:29:32.210 --> 00:29:35.869 the athletes because so many of them have a fantastic 00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:39.710 story. There's a couple of athletes I know of 00:29:39.710 --> 00:29:41.670 their background. They were taken off the streets. 00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:45.349 They were orphans and they ended up being absolutely 00:29:45.349 --> 00:29:48.880 fantastic world championship medalists. but either 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.279 a they don't want to talk about it or b their 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.559 federation doesn't want to talk about it and 00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:57.559 c overriding all this it seems as if nobody in 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:01.259 the sport is aware of how good it would be for 00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:04.019 the sport for them to tell their story and be 00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:06.559 more human if you like and then this comes down 00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:09.619 again in the presentation how much is the audience 00:30:09.619 --> 00:30:12.200 told about an athlete during the competition 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.259 are either on screen or by the speaker. It's 00:30:15.259 --> 00:30:17.619 difficult for the speaker. But a lot of information 00:30:17.619 --> 00:30:19.880 could go on the screen. They can pick their favorite 00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:21.960 song. They can talk about their dog or whatever. 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:24.579 It doesn't matter. They just could be humanized 00:30:24.579 --> 00:30:26.839 in a way they're not. We have 10 minutes after 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:29.180 presentation before the first athlete. This could 00:30:29.180 --> 00:30:32.460 be used to introduce others. The 10 minutes of 00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:35.339 death, that is. That's just... We introduce the 00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:37.920 technical officials and then nothing happens 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.940 for 10 minutes. I mean, it's just unbelievable. 00:30:40.579 --> 00:30:42.880 People that are... There was a... Somebody... 00:30:42.890 --> 00:30:44.690 He came in to work for the Norwegian Federation, 00:30:45.009 --> 00:30:47.829 who's gone since. He was an international referee 00:30:47.829 --> 00:30:50.470 in football and ice hockey. And he was almost, 00:30:50.670 --> 00:30:54.170 he was, what's going on here? Couldn't believe 00:30:54.170 --> 00:30:57.069 it. And then sometimes you go to a B group, there's 00:30:57.069 --> 00:31:00.869 six athletes, there's eight referees, or numbers 00:31:00.869 --> 00:31:03.630 of referees, deciding on a good lift or no lift. 00:31:03.789 --> 00:31:07.029 And there are actually more officials than there 00:31:07.029 --> 00:31:10.160 are athletes by a factor of a vote. three or 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:13.400 four it's just unbelievable it really is but 00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:17.180 that was another thing why when you've got a 00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:19.640 video have you got eight people deciding whether 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.160 it's a good lift or a no lift eight people it's 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.400 off the scale crazy let's finish on something 00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:29.759 positive so what would be your message for coaches 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.140 and for lifters message from brian oliver keep 00:31:33.140 --> 00:31:35.500 up the good work and try to get more of a say 00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:38.279 in your sport and you're all fantastic all right 00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.079 i have two questions to finish two short questions 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.140 the first one usually is what is your favorite 00:31:44.140 --> 00:31:47.299 lift snatch or clean and jerk and you i know 00:31:47.299 --> 00:31:49.980 that you are not a lifter yourself but you must 00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:53.960 have your favorite lift well surely It's interesting 00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.799 because for technique, the snatch, for strength, 00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:00.400 clean and jerk. So it's two different things 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.940 in a way. But yeah, it's got to be the clean 00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:05.039 and jerk because that's the killer lift where 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.700 you get the world record and the Olympic gold 00:32:06.700 --> 00:32:10.279 medal. But I do like watching, for example, Lesman 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:12.539 Paradise. Fantastic. The last question is where 00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:15.539 people can find you online if they want to follow 00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:17.440 what you're doing. Well, mostly you go on the 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:19.640 Google search and find something from a few years 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.660 ago. But nowadays, the only place... where I 00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:26.019 appear my reports appear regularly anyway is 00:32:26.019 --> 00:32:30.259 competition reports on the IWF website so for 00:32:30.259 --> 00:32:33.420 every youth junior and senior world championships 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:36.359 and the Olympic Games I'll be there hopefully 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.200 for Grand Prix's etc anything part of qualifying 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.500 for Los Angeles and also I do put other information 00:32:43.450 --> 00:32:46.109 might not necessarily appear on the IWF website, 00:32:46.329 --> 00:32:48.990 occasionally on the Reddit group. I don't know 00:32:48.990 --> 00:32:51.710 if you know the Reddit group, but it's big. 270 00:32:51.710 --> 00:32:54.690 ,000 people, I think. Most of that is videos 00:32:54.690 --> 00:32:56.869 of people doing lifts, but a little bit of it 00:32:56.869 --> 00:32:59.970 is news. Awesome. Thank you so much, Brian. Pleasure 00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:02.210 to meet you and talk to you today. Thanks.