Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
Connections, the show where relationships turn
into revenue and rooms turn into communities.
I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and today's episode
goes straight to the heart of what most professionals
get wrong about networking. We're talking about
connection. Real connection, not name tags, not
awkward small talk, not hoping the right person
happens to sit next to you. My guest today is
someone who knows how to bring business professionals
together on purpose, design networking events
that actually work, and build in -person communities
where relationships don't end when the event
does. If you've ever walked into a room full
of people and walked out with nothing to show
for it, or if you've ever wondered why some events
spark opportunity while others fall flat, this
conversation is for you. Get ready to rethink
how connections are created, how rooms are designed,
and how communities grow. I'd like to welcome
to my podcast, Matthew. Matthew, this is such
an advantage for me. because you talk about exactly
what I do. I go on stages. I talk about networking.
I have a networking group that I meet weekly.
I do everything that you're talking about. I
am very interested in what you have to say. So
I'd like to welcome Matthew to the podcast. Matt,
would you mind just giving us a little background
and telling us how you got here today? bit of
tech and digital marketing. I was working at
a shipping technology company where I met my
now wife. She happened to be the boss's sister,
the CEO's sister. And in order to preserve my
own life and career, I branched and left that
company and joined a little startup. So that
little event, I started at a subscription software
company as the only marketer, and I started a
little meetup with some other marketer friends
that were also solo marketers at bootstrapped
small technology companies. And those two things
happened from that one decision and have subsequently
grown into two businesses that I run today, which
is I do a lot of work with subscription brands,
but that small little marketing meetup has grown
into a really large community here in Utah with
monthly meetups, workshops. We do two annual
conferences and it's all about putting people
in rooms because I've always found in my experience,
I would rather learn from say someone like you,
Michael, who's done it before, then go watch
a YouTube video from somebody that I have no
idea what's true or what's not. So that's the
whole ethos behind our community is you can get
solutions from your peers. How do we get peers
in a room so that they start talking is really
what we do. And that's perfect. It really is
because I too believe that the one -on -one or
the in -person networking goes far beyond that
of Zoom or anything else. And here's the biggest
reason. You can't pick up the vibe of the person.
You can't pick up the vibe of the room. You get
a feeling of how the room is just by when you
walk in. And you don't get that through Zoom.
You're a nice guy. You're a great looking guy.
But I don't know what's happening here. All right.
So let me jump into the questions. Number one,
okay, connecting with business professionals,
what separates introductions that go nowhere
from ones that turn into real opportunity? This
is so fascinating because I was actually helping
my sister with this because she's in HR and I
don't know a lot about HR, but I'm a connector.
And so I actually asked her this yesterday. I
said, can you tell me one thing about you that...
would make you stand out compared to somebody
else that does HR. And she started listing all
the things that she doesn't. she's not necessarily
super well trained in and then landed on the
one thing which is i'm really great at hard conversations
and helping people with management and interpersonal
office relations and so i said great i then went
into a group chat where i went in with a ton
of other business leaders and said hey i have
an hr professional who's really great with and
i said what she told me and i got a response
immediately from a leading hr person here in
utah to say I'd love to connect with her. And
the reason is it's being specific. I think one
of the biggest mistakes that people make when
they're networking is they think that, hey, I
want to be really general because I don't know
what opportunity might come my way. I want to
be really open to opportunity. And I run into
this all the time with people that are looking
for jobs or looking to hire from somebody. And
the mistake is that general is easy to forget.
It's hard to remember. I meet so many people
and in a room full of other people when you're
networking, the only people that are going to
stand out are people that are very specific in
sharing what they do and in sharing what they
need. So my suggestion for any networking event
is be really specific. If you're young and you're
looking for your first job, then be really specific
about the opportunity you want. If you've been
20 years in the business and you've done a million
different things, be specific about the job that
you want. Because that's going to make you feel
remembered in people's mind. And they're also
going to immediately think of some, that's because
that's how we all talk to each other, right?
Michael, if you're saying, hey, Matt, I'm having
issues with HR because our current HR person
can't deal with hiring and firing and all this
stuff we're going through. Okay, boom. I think
of the person I know. If you say, hey, I need
a benefits person. I'm going to wonder if I know
a benefits person. So being that specific, I
think is the biggest difference in great networking.
I can't agree enough. One thing I've always taught,
and when I coach students, when I coach people,
when I coach professionals, they always have
all these things that they do. And I say, pick
a lane. Because when you go out and you do your
30 -second speech or whatever the hokey thing
that is, but if you do five things, don't come
out and say all five things. You have to pick
one. Pick one. expand on it. The next week, you
can pick a different one and expand on it. But
while you're talking, just pick a lane. So that's
very good advice. Okay, you've created successful
networking events. What's the biggest reason
most events fail to produce meaningful relationships?
Yeah, I'd say that it's twofold. One is like
within individual events, you need to really
understand like the purpose of why people are
coming, I think, right? If we're putting on an
event to try to connect, say, legal professionals,
that's not specific enough. Like we were just
saying, what is the reason why somebody should
attend? And if you understand that reason. very
clearly, hey, we're trying to help legal law
firms that are looking to expand into new markets.
OK, that gives everybody a compelling reason
to come. You can create content that matches
that need and you can create other ways to facilitate
that. So I do believe having a very specific
goal for why people should show up. is an important
way to do that. I then think the secondary thing
is about consistency. I've seen too many times,
I've been doing our event business for five,
six years now. And there are plenty of times
where people don't show up or nowhere near as
many people show up as I thought would. And there
are times when twice as many people show up.
And so I think the other mistake is not understanding
how much consistency. and feedback are important
in that. It's not just, hey, we're going to do
a networking event next month. And if it works,
if it doesn't, we'll go on to the next thing.
It's no, we're going to plan networking events
over the next six months. And this is our commitment
to doing those things. This is how we're going
to show up. This is how we're going to try to
get people excited, how we're going to get people
coming back. Because I have found the fun thing
about it is if people really enjoyed your event
and you can't tell them that you have another
one coming, you're missing that excitement. You
want to capture that. So those are the two things,
being really specific and building your events
around those goals and doing them over and over
again and not giving up just because it seems
hard. So now the events that you've produced,
are they events like businesses have tables or
are they just big networking events? We generally,
we do a little bit of both. So we'll generally
do say like a speaker or a panel around a topic.
That's something I really like because people
like to come out and learn from somebody they
know or have heard of, for example. And it's
generally around a topic. So for us in the e
-commerce space, there's so many different versions.
There's so many different aspects of e -commerce
that we can pick a lot of things, but we generally
say, try to start with something that appeals
to a broader audience. We get a couple of speakers,
we have a panel and our whole thing is, Again,
our ethos is really about getting into the weeds.
I just hate high level surface responses, right?
If you are trying to build an email newsletter
for your business, which everybody here in some
way, shape or form is probably trying to do,
what landing page builder are you using? Are
you running ads or not? What offer are you using
to get people to opt into your email newsletter,
right? I want to get into the weeds. And so we
make sure that the session content, the panels
and our moderator or moderators are going. because
that's what people really want. And then we leave
time after for Q &A and open networking. So we
then facilitate conversations with everybody
who's there. We don't necessarily do a ton with
trying to make sure everybody in the room goes
around, although we do some things often with
trying to get people to show who they are for
other people that want to connect with them.
But that's really what it's all about for us
is we want to provide some content. That's a
lot of the reason why people show up. But the
networking is what everybody talks about. as
being the reason that they love it so much is
the people they meet afterwards, the five to
10 people they chatted with after the event.
And sometimes that's the speakers, right? Sometimes
I really wanted to connect with so -and -so and
they were so helpful. Other times it was like,
hey, somebody two rows behind me, it turns out
they're in the same position I'm in and we're
now sharing notes and we're going to get coffee
next week. That happens all the time with our
group. Excellent. Because when I produce an event,
I have an event coming up actually in March.
People talk about what's happening with other
people. Yes, they came to see all the businesses,
but they want to see other people. having the
same problems that they're having and how do
they get out of it? So part of our event, part
of our weekly network meetings is that we take
the last 20 minutes, we take two people and say,
okay, what problems are you having? Or who do
you want to go and see? Who can't you go in and
see? Or who are you having a problem going and
seeing? And undoubtedly 15 people saying, I have
a contact. Yeah. And let me help you with that.
And it goes. a long way, but I love so much more
natural. It's so much more natural to where you
meet somebody say that works on retention, but
you're an ad buyer. They, the retention person,
you become friends. They want to introduce you
to the ad buyer in their company. Like it's just
so much simpler where we just create a space.
I do think that there's a lot of, as we've done
it longer, we've consistently created spaces
where people feel comfortable showing up to learn
and connect. And those are the people that keep
coming out. So if you're a really strong salesperson
and you're viewing it as like potential legion
for your service, those people do come, but they
go most of the time because you're not getting
a ton there. You'll turn people off. You show
up with your authentic self, you're going to
meet a ton of other people with their authentic
selves. Absolutely. What we do with our networking
events is I am heading the whole event, but I
say you go in with a servant's heart. You go
in looking to give. Instead of receiving. 100%.
When you do that, you take all that pressure
off your shoulders. And you're just there. All
of a sudden, you're having a good time. You're
meeting some great people. And you're looking
to see how you can help other people. So it's
a great combination. Okay. So which responsibility
does the event host carry for the quality of
connections that happen in a room? I'd say a
hundred percent. That's what I feel anyway. Yeah.
It's really, that's my biggest thing. It's if
I'm there in a room when we got 50 people, everyone
that I've met there or that I know there, I am
trying to connect with somebody else there. And
that's me doing the manual work of doing that.
But it's also, as I've said, like I. We want
people to show up that want to hang out a little
while after or that view that networking connection
piece as being really valuable because that's
what we're offering. So it's a huge thing for
me. It's what gets me excited. It's what motivates.
Honestly, Michael, it's like what made me feel
like this was a special calling for me was. not
just being a B2B marketer and trying to sell
software or something like that. It's, hey, no,
actually I can facilitate connections for a lot
of people. It makes me feel really good to help
people get, like we have people that have bought
and sold businesses out of our community that
find their next job or that hire people. Like
these are life -changing events that are coming
out of a simple networking group. And that's
really important to me. And I wouldn't do it
if it was just a profit motivation or anything
other than that too. Yeah, no, I'm with you 100%.
I feel 100 % responsible. Because if they're
coming to this meeting, I brought them all together.
Okay, whether it's five businesses, 15, 25 businesses,
I brought them together. So I want them to get
the most out of it. I always feel 100 % responsible.
Okay. What small detail, often overlooked, has
the biggest impact on whether people feel comfortable
engaging at an event? For me, I love self -deprecating
humor, and I almost always will open with a joke
making fun of... some clothing choice or how
my wife helped me dress or something like that.
I really do believe in creating open spaces.
And I want people to feel like not to make it
political in any way. I just want people, regardless
of your race, creed, gender, color, whatever,
that you feel welcome and that you feel like
it's a safe space. And that's something that
it's a little nuanced. We just try to make sure
everybody feels like your voice matters. You
can ask questions, you can be involved. And if
somebody is like way off the rails, then I talk
to them. one -on -one but that's something that
we've gotten a lot of feedback too is that people
feel comfortable like being wrong so we've also
done some events where i asked the panels to
share like the dumbest like a finance panel what's
the dumbest blunder you made what's the silliest
thing you did or the thing that you are just
i wish i could go back in time and undo that
because that makes the everyone there feel like
Yeah, we're all trying to, we're all making mistakes.
I'll try to figure out. So that's how I've approached
it. And I feel like that's a really good one
because otherwise like icebreakers and stuff
like that are just a mechanism for trying to
enable some of that. You keep talking about vibe.
It's really hard to set a vibe, but people know
when it's off. And so you have to look at small
ways you're positively influencing the vibe in
the room. Otherwise people just will be turned
off. And that's so true. I didn't mean to turn
away, but I wrote down the word blunder because
in my next networking meeting, that is what I'm
going to break out. Okay. I always start the
meeting off with a self -deprecating joke or
something or whatever. And it gets everybody
to laugh. But I'm going to bring that up the
next time. So I want to thank you for that. Okay.
In your experience, what does the structure of
an event? shape the behavior and mindset of the
attendees. Yeah, no, that's a great one. I'll
tell you this, an event structure that we've
tried a couple of times and has not worked out
well is I keep thinking I want to do a real hands
-on. So let's say you're building an email, like,
hey, come build the emails you need for your
business, a welcome flow for new customers. And
we want, we want to lay it, set out tables and
people can bring their computers and we're going
to go step by step. We'll have people in the
audience to go person if there's questions and
people just don't want to open up their computers
and do that. They want to pay attention and take
notes, but they want to work on it on their own.
And so that structure I've struggled to make
happen because I'm trying what I think will be
helpful, but people aren't wanting to show up
in that way. And so for me, I've found that.
We just structure the content a little bit differently.
So if it's more about, do I want somebody to
show you their playbook? Hey, here's how we do
emails. And we're going to step, step by step.
And for me, the signal is how many times are
people taking their phones out to take pictures
of a screen? That's okay. I'm, I really want
to look at that later versus say like a panel
is more like sharing ideas. or we'll often do
like round tables where we're facilitating like
discussions amongst the group so that type of
format does change how people show up and how
they engage Am I taking notes furiously as you're
walking through your playbook? Am I just getting
some really great ideas here from the panel?
Or, hey, I can actually ask questions for my
specific problems in this roundtable format.
It's how we've been figuring things out and are
continuing. And we do those formats at our big
conference. I try to do a version of each of
those things because it's just a different layer
of information and how people can digest that.
Because it's really hard to say be at a full
day workshop where you're taking notes furiously
the entire time. You need to break it up for
people. Yeah, my workshops are about three hours.
So it's a half day workshop. But that's how I
can tell if I'm getting the point across by how
many times people take the cameras out and take
a picture of my slide. So I'm a decent judge
of that. And when nobody did it, my entire workshop,
something was wrong. I messed up on somewhere,
somehow. But I'll go back and I'll check that
and I'll change that and correct it. But that's
how I can tell. You focus on building communities
in person. What changes when people see each
other regularly instead of just one -off events?
It's relationships and those connections. You
start hearing about personal things like I'm
having a baby, I'm getting married. moving to
this new company. And the fun part about that
is that does deepen the connection, but it also
actually just creates more context for, hey,
I'm moving to this new company. Do you know anybody
who's doing X, Y, Z? Because we're hiring for
that too, right? It's, hey, we're starting this
new initiative. Do you want to partner on it
with us? That kind of thing. That's what I find
when more and more people show up. They become
resources for each other. Like early on our community,
I spent a lot of the connection was just me connecting
people. And we have a Slack community with about
1300 people in it. And a lot of early on was
me just trying to poke the audience to get with
some fake questions to get some people to respond.
Now, when you're talking about a community, a
real community is not based off of Matt's network
of relationships. It's based off of the relationships
in the group. And so that doesn't happen without.
seeing people regularly or interacting with them
on Slack in addition to seeing them regularly.
And so now there are people that are solving
each other's problems, and I have no idea that
it's happening. There are people that are inviting
people to upcoming events, and I have no idea
that it's happening. So that's the beauty that
you get when you start. That's why that consistency
matters. It matters not just for your content,
but for the people. I agree 100%. 100%. It's
the difference. between a group of attendees
and an actual business community? Yeah, I think
it's, what are people doing when they're not
there? And that's like similar to what I was
just saying, is that I come here to learn and
then I go back to my business. I come here to
learn. I'm going to go talk to so -and -so and
so because they can help me in my business too.
And that's, I think that's that secondary one
of feeling like you're connected, that you have
friends and allies. Again, our whole biggest
thing is like, if you've been using a tool or
you're struggling with a landing page builder
or an email builder, okay, I can hop onto my
Slack group and ask this question. And then I
get four or five responses and, oh yeah, I remember
Jenny. She actually was on a panel about this
two months ago. I'm going to, I'm going to pay
attention to this or. Somebody else is going
to jump on there and say, if you haven't heard
from Jenny before, she's a real pro and she knows
what she's talking about. And that's happening
all the time because of those connections. Okay.
Do you encourage collaboration instead of competition
when you bring professionals from similar industries
into the same room? Yeah, that one's a little
tricky because... Sometimes we get, if we have
sponsors involved, we have to be a little bit
more careful, right? If I have a sponsor on email,
I'm not going to bring in an email expert from
a competitor. But other than that, we just push
really hard on that collaboration element that
if you feel threatened by other people that do
what you do, this probably isn't going to be
the best space for you because that's a really
bad vibe. The vibe should be. I do A, B, C, you
might do A, B, D, but that's okay. We have some
overlap and we have different opinions. The audience,
because from my perspective, the audience actually
needs different and sometimes conflicting opinions.
Because if they hear the same thing and they
hear the same thing online and the same thing
when they're hitting chat GPT. They're really
not learning and they're not being pushed to
try to test that as a hypothesis for their own
business. Because as we all know, there's no
real universal rules that work for everybody
in every place and every time. And so competitive
views are important. And we often will try to
balance that with, say, a panel of three people
might be a person who's, say, I'll use HR, say
an HR representative from a company, an HR representative
from a company, but then they have an HR consultant.
And so that way we can get different perspectives.
Hey, in our company of this size, these are our
pain points and what we're doing. Well, our company
is a little bit of a different size and we're
using a different software and we have some of
these other concerns. And then the third person's
like, yeah, I've seen those two things and 50
other things. And here's a lot of things to keep
in mind. And those different perspectives are,
I think, what's most valuable when you have a
room full of 50 people and you're not exactly
sure. Not everybody has the same problems that
need to be solved. Companies vary in size, obviously,
and use different size. I'm just using your HR
thing. But you can't compare a company that has
50 employees to one that has 15 employees to
the one that just has a mom and pop. So different
needs for different people. And different people,
they promote exactly what they're after, which
is, oh, I just like companies that are. 50 people
and above. I only like people, I don't like companies
from 20 to 50 employees. I only, and they have
their differences. So you get a completely different
perspective on the same issue, but from different
companies. So yes. Okay. So what habits should
attendees adopt after an event to turn good conversation
into lasting relationships? I think it comes
back to this specific thing. I always, it's not
just how you show up when you're being like,
I'm specifically that this is what I'm, how I'm
showing with this event, but also specific asks.
I think for the hard part is when you meet somebody
new, they're doing cool stuff. You think maybe
you could be friends or that you should collaborate
on something. Can you think of a specific next
step? Hey, I'd love to pick your brain on this
one area of your business. Can we get coffee
sometime? do a Zoom call or something like that.
I think that's really important is just being
really specific in how you show up, but also
what you ask of other people. And then, yeah,
I think it is just like looking for, I always
like asking other people too, what other events
are you going to? What other things like this
are going on? Because there might be stuff that,
you know, that maybe I didn't know about so that
I could show up to that too. And that's another
touch point. Yeah, my biggest thing. with when
I go on stages or I do a workshop or even coaching,
I always tell them that the follow -up is so
much more important than even meeting the person.
Your follow -up is just so important. And it's
not only that you follow up, but how you follow
up, when you follow up, what do you say when
you follow up? All of this is so very important,
whether you're going to turn the other person
off or just say, hey, that's a great idea. Let's
grab a cup of coffee. There's so much involved
with that. Okay, let's bring this full circle.
If someone wanted to build a strong, trusted
business community from scratch, what's the first
decision that they must get? You got to understand
the need. It's really easy to see a community
or people look at my business and they go, oh,
wow, if I could get. 50 of my customers in a
room every month voluntarily, that would be amazing.
It would be amazing. That's not how the world
works. So understanding a real need. And so for
us, like I've said, that need is around people
really wanting insightful information on what
they could do inside their business and also
the power of community. You need to be thinking
really clearly about what problem you're solving
and also think through all the other ways that
people are answering that problem. I think the
hard part is like entrepreneurs and business
owners is that we think that what we're coming
up with is unique when the reality is 55 ,000,
5 million people are already thinking of that
same problem and have different opinions on it.
So you come up with that idea and then test it.
It should be like any other business idea or
any kind of experiment. You have a hypothesis.
Hey, we think that. We're struggling to get operations
people, like people that do sourcing and fulfillment.
They're typically not big networkers, like marketers
or networkers, usually, in our experience. We're
trying to create more opportunities for those
operators to come out because we think that they
would actually appreciate connecting with their
peers. There's just not really a format for them
to do that. I might be totally wrong in the next
couple of months. pivot into something else for
that part of our group. But that's how you got
to evaluate the pain point and think if your
solution will actually answer that. And then
again, it comes to everything else I've already
said about, you have a goal now for the event.
You need to make sure that you're managing everything
related to the event so that goal can be achieved.
It's great, valuable information. This is such
golden information. I can't begin to tell you.
And I'm saying that from somebody who knows.
Okay. So obviously you just know what you're
talking about. If somebody wants to contact you
about an event or they live in Utah or whatever
the case may be, what's the best way that they
can get ahold of you? Yeah, you can find me on
LinkedIn, Matthew Holman on LinkedIn, or come
check out our website, ccatalyst .co, if you
want to come to an event in the future. We're
open, willing. When you were asking that competition
question earlier, I was smiling, thinking like
there are other communities and events and conferences
that have come and gone in Utah. And we love
working and collaborating with anybody because
our whole mission is just to connect and empower
people. So we don't view anybody as a competitor
in that space. Great. This is the difference
between attending events and belonging to something
bigger. Real networking isn't accidental. It's
designed. It's guided. And when it's done, it
creates a momentum that carries long after the
room emptied. If today's conversation made you
rethink how you show up at events, who you connect
with, or how you would build relationships over
time, take one action this week. Reach out, follow
up. Be intentional. Share this episode with someone
who hosts events, builds communities, or wants
stronger business relationships. Make sure you
subscribe to Networking Unleashed, building profitable
connections, so you don't miss conversations
that help you connect smarter and grow stronger.
And if you're ready to build relationships that
actually move your business forward, visit foreman
.com to learn how I work with professionals,
teams, and organizations. So until next time,
show up with purpose, connect with intention,
and build communities that last. Matt, I want
to thank you again for coming on the podcast.
You were a great guest. Thanks. You're a great
host. Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere.
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A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such...
insights today. And of course, a big shout out
to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in
and spending your time with us. If you're interested
in my digital courses, being coached or having
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networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
being present. So take what you've learned today,
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