Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
Connections. If you've wondered how leaders bring
out the best in people for every generation,
this conversation is going to grab you. Today's
guest works with the Gen Z, boomers, millennials,
and everyone in between. He doesn't play favorites.
He listens, challenges, and brings out talent
that was hiding in plain sight. He has shaped
leaders who went from struggling with communication
to becoming strong influences within their companies.
He knows how to handle conflict without turning
the room tense. He coaches decision makers to
work smarter with people who you think behave
and communicate differently. What I love about
his approach, it's simple. It's real, it's practical,
and it works. I'd like to introduce Nikhil Raval.
I'm sorry, I butchered your last name. I always
do that. But I'd like to welcome you to the podcast.
Why don't you give us a little bit of background
and tell me how you got here today. Thank you,
Michael. And that's a very kind introduction.
And so my story is really broken into two buckets.
grew up in Asia in India for maybe the first
15 years and then I migrated to the U .S. and
spent many years there doing education working
there a good decade in the financial services
industry and then in 2002 I went back came back
to Asia as it was growing and things were happening
and I said to myself I'll do just about anything
but I won't fall into teaching or training or
consulting and sometimes life takes you to a
path the path that you resist the most and so
there I was I had an opportunity. I dabbled into
teaching, training, consulting. And in my last
role, I was the MD of a company where we built
leadership solutions for leaders, very experienced
leaders, people with 15, 20, 25, 30 years of
experience across Asia. So I got a fantastic
ringside view of what a company is grappling
with, what leaders have to do. And in 2018, I
think I'd done enough and seen enough. So I went
to the dark side, which is on my own. And I had
a chance to finish all my bucket list, which
was to I delivered a couple of TED Talks. I managed
to do that and write a book, which I learned
how to do that. So that was on Gen Z. And then
from the Gen Z book, Michael, I really, you know,
what I noticed is that a lot of my consulting
work is that it isn't just the Gen Z, it's their
bosses and people around the whole ecosystem
are also all part of that. That led me to write
the second book, which is on multi -generations.
And like you, I'm fortunate to have run another
podcast, which is called Working with Gen Z,
which is fairly popular. globally ranked among
the top two, three Gen Z podcasting. So here
I am. That's great. And I, like I said, I've
seen the videos of your podcast. I was fortunate
enough to be on the podcast, but you have a huge
following and everybody really pays attention
to what you have to say. So whatever you're doing
it well and just keep doing it. Okay. I have
a few questions for you. You work closely with
Gen Z and other generations. What's one misconception
that keeps people from connecting effectively
at work? So, Michael, let me ask, and let's just
put this as a sort of a what -if scenario. Let's
say if I had to design a TikTok or a LinkedIn
campaign in your company, who would be the person
that you're going to hire? There's a good chance
that you're probably thinking of someone. maybe
in their 20s thinking that, you know what, that
person over there, I think he or she will do
a good job. And even while this may be just in
your mind, there is probably you made a kind
of subconscious decision of saying that, you
know what, there's one young person who's good
at this and there's probably another experienced
person in my team who may not like technology
and who may not be good with technology. So I
guess the first place that we often stumble into
this whole multi -generation conflict zone or
a situation where people start thinking about,
okay, here's my boss and this is what's happening,
is the stereotypes that we carry about each other.
And I can go on, but the stereotypes are just
that. They are stereotypes, right? I think generations
have existed for many years. In our personal
life, we've had to deal with our parents and
our grandparents, right? And so they come from
different generations. So it isn't a new concept,
but I think it just gets amplified in the workplace.
And more so with all that literature that's out
there, I think we'll talk more. more as we go
along that I think we can keep it simple based
on just doing away with some of the stereotypes
and what's even called meta stereotypes, which
means like I carry a certain stereotype about
my own self or my generation. And that's where
it all starts. So that's, I would say that, and
we can go into some of the stereotypes, but that's
the place where it starts normally. Okay, good.
I like where this is going and I could interject
a little bit, but I'm going to wait a little
bit longer. Okay. When a leader needs to build
trust with younger employees, where should they
start in the very first conversation? Sure. So
I think one of the things which is very important,
Michael, as we think about different generation,
and especially for, let's say, the Gen Z generation,
because that is the youngest generation in the
workplace, it's to appreciate the context in
which they're coming to work. And I won't go
into the details of the context of all the prior
generations, but the Gen Z generation, rightly,
wrongly, and we don't, I think they just have
seen enough within their 25 to 29 years of being
on planet Earth, which is to say that they have
seen a war, they've seen a pandemic, they've
seen the Me Too movement, they're seeing fake
news, they're seeing plenty, which often... People
will say that there isn't the traditional word
of the midlife crisis, but it's the quarter -life
crisis. And therefore, I think the first way
to start, if you're a good people leader, is
to just create the space for them to say that,
hey, listen, how do I build trust and how do
I make you more comfortable? And today in the
HR... world in the leadership space there's so
much being talked about psychological safety
and safe to speak but a lot of that will only
work in my view Michael if the leader or the
manager is willing to invest the time which means
that if he or she comes to your room if he or
she is coming to ask you a question and you disagree
with them or you don't kind of want to subscribe
to their way of thinking you still want to create
that space where they feel like listen I should
voice my opinion my boss isn't going to hold
it against me and gradually when you do that
enough you will see that trust gets filled and
i say that this is even more necessary today
because of where technology has taken us right
so if you see the curve of how technology is
quickly growing it is nearly impossible back
in the day when you went to the boss and said
i don't want a problem i want the solution today
the problems themselves have become extremely
complex so therefore it is in the manager's good
decision or in their interest to say that, you
know what, I think I need to appreciate another
lens. And the only way you can appreciate another
lens is for them to be open in sharing their
ideas. Now, at the end of the day, you may still
disagree with them and you may say, hey, I think
I've seen enough, but... And I appreciate your
input there, but I think on this one, we're going
to go this way. And it's a gradual process. I
see, and I work with companies, I think people
believe that this is something that's going to
happen in one conversation or two conversations,
but it's something that just takes time, a lot
of patience, and a lot of investment, I would
say, in the manager's part. Why don't you say
that it's a two -way street, that the Gen Z has
to begin trusting the owner and the owner also
has to begin trusting the Gen Z. It's a two -way
street. You have to be open to trust, but it
can't be one -sided. One side can't be open to
it. Absolutely. I think you make a good point.
And I think just to conclude that last point,
I do want to mention that it isn't all about
the managers not doing what they do. But I think
and I often say this to I often say this to the
Gen Z's in when I do workshops to say that, look,
you have a 40 or a 50 year runway. There is a
good chance you will have a millennial as a boss
or a Gen Xer as a boss for at least the next
20 years because that's their runway. Now. Forget
about whether you like it or not, but the fact
remains that they're going to be either your
colleagues or bosses or in some capacity, right?
So it's a kind of a two -way street where you
need to take the interest to say what inspires
them. Why do they want to communicate this way?
Why do they see careers this way? Why do they
see learning this way? And therefore, I think...
equally the flip side is to where the managers
need to think about that. Listen, if I'm an Xer,
I've got about 20 years or 15 years. If I'm doing
a workshop, there's a good chance that the same
workshop nine, five years from now, we'll have
more Gen Zs in the room than maybe the people
that are there now. Very good. Okay. Good. Okay.
So what's the most common reason multi -gen teams
struggle to work with one another? And how should
leaders respond when tensions rise? Yeah, so
I think, as I mentioned, one of the things that
leads to some of this is, and Michael, we've
spoken about communication and forms of communication,
but how do we get to build that sort of routine
of communication? But I think I would start with
both. the self -awareness which is the first
step this is to say that okay if i'm a manager
managing people of different levels different
age groups, different cultural backgrounds. Am
I self -aware of my strengths? In other words,
do I tend to default back to my old habits? And
therefore, I think the self -awareness becomes
the number one thing for people leading people
to say that, okay, are you reasonably aware of
your blind spots? And there are ways in which
you can minimize that. You can ask feedback and
you can do many other things. You can have instruments
and so on. So that is the first place that I
think the more we can become aware of ourselves,
the more we know. that, okay, what should I not
do when I'm in front of a colleague or a peer
or let's say someone that I'm managing? The other,
as we mentioned, is just the stereotypes, right?
Now, there are many ways to overcome this, and
I'll just mention very briefly a couple of ways.
So one of the things that I do is what I call
an assumptions audit, which means that if you
truly have a multi -gen team, Let's say you and
I are on a team and let's say we've got two other
people. We'll come together and say, okay, what
is the one assumption I've been making about
this person that maybe he's not good with technology?
And you keep, you floor the assumptions. And
I think you figured out a way in which you can
bring that into a conversation. Now you need
a good facilitator. You need someone to appeal
some of that. So it requires you to. put that
out there, which means there has to be trust
in the team. But the second step is what I call
adjust the lens, which means that why should
I assume that Michael is not good with technology?
Maybe Michael is more savvy than the Gen Z in
the room. And I think adjust the lens simply
says that we then get to know the person a little
better from what is happening. And I think that
there are the four things that one could do is
what I also call mutual mentoring, which means
that if I am good at something, Can I offer and
teach my skill sets or my expertise to the team?
And can I request and be humble enough to have
someone else do it the other way? And there you
have to be at least be humble enough to say that,
look, I'm going to shed my ego. If a 25 -year
-old person can teach me how to do a TikTok video
much better than, let's say, I, even though I
may have 25 years of experience, I think we should
just say, hey, listen. I think I need to learn
from you. So you could do some of these things.
Again, culture means new routines, which means
that it's not about just tall promises and beautiful
posters. It is about doing it, doing it consistently
and having ways to track it. So you're really,
you're saying it's a mindset shift that they
have to be open to the communication between.
their bosses or peers or something else. Because
if a Gen Z person walks in and they don't have
that mindset that they are going to be open to
these changes, they're not going to last, right?
And as the manager or the owner, they'll look
at the new hire and they'll say, this person
can't play well with others. So they're not going
to have the job for very long. So you're saying
that they should really open up a little bit,
have a mindset shift, and it'll go a lot longer.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And there are lots of
biases that we have, Michael, that could be another
conversation. But I think one of the most common
ones, I just want to lay this out there because
that what that everybody falls prey to is that
and certainly when we get more experiences. what
I call the confirmation bias, which is simply
to say that I have a belief in my head and I'm
going to look for data that just confirms that
belief, right? So if I have a tough assignment,
I'm going to talk to my three friends who will
say, hey, don't do this. This is not a good thing
to do. Rather than can I think about another
perspective? Can I welcome another opinion? And
I think for managers, for people. in both sides
of the aisle right they just need to consciously
build a habit to invite another perspective i
may disagree with them but i know can i the only
way i can appreciate like what is michael going
to talk about is to say michael i still like
to hear what you have to say you may have made
a decision and i think that is one of the things
that if we can just even work towards that that
can bring a lot of harmony and we can go from
friction to fusion Yeah, no, I absolutely believe
in what you're saying. But it's the people who
surround you. So you don't want yes men. You
don't want somebody or people to agree with everything
that you say because you're not getting anything,
any information that way. So if you get some
people say, look, I wouldn't do it that way because
I would do this and this. And you can say, I
agree with that, but not really. So I'm going
to do it my way. But at least you had a different
point of view. So you can judge yourself and
really for managers, supervisors, VPs, C -suite
people, you have to have a lot of those rather
than having yes men, right? Absolutely. When
I've owned multiple companies and we've always
had that opportunity to have people say, should
you really have done that? Because I would have
done it this way. And it makes you think. And
oh, you're right. And sometimes I had to go in
and apologize to my employee. But that didn't
happen too often. So it's just it's a mindset.
I agree. Does curiosity help a leader influence
without coming across too pushy or political?
Yeah, so I think the. The way in which we, I
just spoke a little while ago, that we think
about how we've gone from industry 1 .0, 2 .0,
3 .0, 4 .0, 5 .0, and what has happened. in the
shift in talent right so there was a time in
which we needed to have engineering skills and
engineering and math skills and standardization
but i think we're now there where i think one
of the biggest thing that the world is facing
every company every leader is every entrepreneur
is gonna face is what i call just the skill set
of learning agility which is to say that how
do i unlearn some of what i know and how do i
look at transdisciplinary lens up the way in
which the world is happening. And I think even
while we're now a few years from the COVID experience,
but I think COVID taught us that, which is to
say that like you don't, you cannot, you didn't
quite solve the problem by having a good vaccine.
You had to think about who's going to get it,
how are we going to ship it? What's the pricing?
What's the communication strategy? And therefore
you cannot say that, look, if I've made one good
vaccine, I've solved the problem. And I think
therefore. Curiosity goes a long way. And I think
if you think about the way in which technology
has grown, right? I think we've seen very few
inventions in the last 200 years, but we've seen
so much more in the last 30 years. And they say
that that curve is nothing but not linear curve,
right? It's just going straight up. Therefore,
curiosity to me is so fundamental today and the
ability to be curious about things. The other
day, somebody was telling me that Chad GPT can
actually solve and do better financial analysis
than the first year McKinsey consultants. Now,
if you're in that kind of a situation, what does
that say? That says that... I have to be curious
about either learning technology, I have to be
curious about ways in telling my clients that,
look, GPT is one, they're going to do something
here, but I am going to help you bring that other
element. It's a core competency now in what I
call the future of work. Yeah, I always view
AI or chat GPT as a tool, right? So if you're
a financial advisor, use AI. as a tool and you
talk to your customers because people still need
the people mode. They still have to talk to people.
People don't feel comfortable unless they get
another person, even if they're doing it through
Zoom, because here you and I are speaking, but
you're a person. So you're a person behind the
camera. So I use AI all the time. But I use it
as a tool and I use it as a backing for what
I'm saying and I'm talking to you about it. So
that's the way that I use it. You're right, because
the other thing that, Michael, what happens,
especially when we're talking about generations,
I almost empathize and most people sympathize
for the Gen Z generation, because here is a generation
which is. growing into the internet. I always
say Gen Y accepted technology, but Gen Z expects
technology. And I think we have to be cautious,
you know, while AI is so powerful and everything
that we don't become over -dependent. In other
words, you don't, in many ways, people say that,
look, you're outsourcing, you're thinking to
AI. And the other day I was reading, there's
an experiment done. I think one of the schools
at Caltech, what they did is that they actually
tracked, they did three groups of people. where
they gave a problem to solve the human mind,
the brain. And then there was another set of
problems which had to be solved through using
Google. And the third was using chat GPT or let's
say generative AI. And what they found out in
their brain movements over like the six months
is that the two on this side, which is the AI
and the Google, the brain movement, they were
shrinking in the sense that there was more atrophy
building to go because you're not using the muscles
or the cells. or the neurons. So I totally agree
with you. I think our ability to solve on our
own is so much more crucial and that human element
should never go away. Absolutely. And I've heard
of that study, by the way. So I know exactly
what you're talking about. But I've always been
in the camp of using my head because I have to
make the decision whether I'm going to use AI
tool, the AI tool or some other tool. And I have
to learn how to put them all together. I use
them all, but I put them together and come up
with my own decision. And that's what I think
separates us from the computer, so to speak.
Okay. In your view, what's the biggest mistake
leaders make when trying to communicate expectations
clearly? I think one of the things that you may
have read, there's a very good book written by
a gentleman called Daniel Pink. And he's written
a book called The Drive. And he essentially in
that book talks about what are some of the explicit
factors that are expected from an employee, like
when he or she is joining a company. And we all
have a list like salary and brand and this and
that. And he said that, OK, look, even if we
get seven out of 10 on a good day, that's pretty
good. But what matters to employees beyond all
of that is the ways in which we are giving them
engagement at workplace. And I always say, Michael,
fundamentally that there was a time in which
perhaps like maybe our generation, your generation,
my generation, like the way in which we looked
at work was that I gave time. and there was money
on the other side. So the exchange was time against
money. Now it's going where it's a more of a
value exchange. In other words, what value do
I bring and what value does the employer bring?
And that's the way in which people are looking
at it. And I think the biggest mistake that...
we tend to do is that managers tend to delegate
the responsibility, but not the authority. So
I'll just repeat that. Managers tend to delegate
the responsibility, but not the authority. I
want to tell the whole world that, listen, I'm
all for innovation. But the moment a team member
comes to me and says that, hey, boss, can I try
this a different way? You just simply say no.
Just saying this as a general example, because
there's always instances where you want to do
the tried and tested versus when do you allow
them to do an experiment. But it requires the
manager to let go, which means that they don't
have to feel so attached and in love with what
they do. And therefore, I think that is a growing
process. I've seen people with 25 years of experience
and holding on to what they know and not letting
it go. And it almost becomes their own sort of.
Yeah, ways in which it can boomerang to them,
which means they can't delegate more and they
continue to do the same thing. And therefore,
the way to overcome that is to make sure that
we give autonomy properly. We give them skills
to become good. We show them a purpose and why
it is. And then we provide the safety to do this.
Now, I'll just say one last thing. Safety doesn't
mean here that you don't hold people accountable.
A lot of times people say, hey, I want psychological
safety and I like that company and I like that
boss. But that is not at the cost of accountability.
You still hold them accountable. And I think
that's the distinction that people have to make,
that you can create a safe space, but you can
still hold them accountable. Absolutely. And
I want to bring you back about 40 years, maybe
longer. I went into the military and I was in
the Air Force and I was under the tutelage of
a sergeant who was my supervisor. And he said,
look. When you go out there, when you go out
and you go on to the base, you do perform your
duties, make a decision. Right or wrong, make
the decision. Because, listen, if you make the
right decision, fantastic. If you make the wrong
decision, we'll clean it up, okay? But you have
to make that decision and you have to be accountable
for that decision. So that should make your decision
-making process that much more important. And
this was taught like 40 years ago, but that was
the same concept because you have to not only
give the responsibility, but give the authority
to make those decisions. And that's, it just
brought me right back. When you were talking,
it just brought me right back to him. I was like,
oh my goodness, exactly. But it made me the person
I am today. And I think that would be very helpful
for a Gen Z person going into the workplace after
they've established themselves. You can't walk
through the door and expect this. But let's say
after a year of being in there, you're given
responsibility, but you're given the accountability
for it. Say, look, you're going to have to be
accountable for this. So you have to make your
decision. So I think that's a very good point
that you're making. Okay, if someone wants to
improve how well they connect with others, what's
a small daily practice that has a big payoff?
Michael, I was just coming back from doing about
four workshops for a very large conglomerate.
They're extremely successful leaders, about 20
years of experience. And one of the things they're
grappling with is just the fact that they're
good in their teams, but what is the value for
them to go out? in other words to go across and
I think it is as simple as understanding and
I gave lots of examples to say that look any
company that we admire today and the leaders
that we admire and i gave i just gave a couple
of examples like companies like google or microsoft
there were times in which many of their products
were independent not working together and not
realizing the potential but it's the people in
the organization some of the key leaders who
made that happen which is to say that they were
becoming a crucial bridge to some of these other
functions. And that simply can only happen when
you can build relations. You certainly don't
have authority over three product lines, but
if I just build relations with you and let's
say someone else who's holding another portfolio,
over time, people not just value my technical
skills, but they understand that, look, he takes
people along and he takes everybody along. And
I sense that I always say as our conversation,
Michael, which was that Networking shouldn't
be seen as transactional. Networking is all about
a longitudinal game, which means that I attend
conferences or I go and spend a day in my colleague's
office and say, hey, what is it that they're
doing? And I read up on something and I make
a brand. But at the end of the day, remember,
you're doing this. To expect something next three
months, six months, that's just the wrong way
of looking at it. And I always say that I think
the more you can take the more mature view of
building relations in an organization, it almost
becomes your coalition or your bench or your
championship support, which is there in the background
without coming in the foreground. But when the
pyramid gets smaller, it's those people whom
you build relations will come and step up and
say that, you know what? Michael is a super guy.
I know him. He's worked hard. Like even though
he was not directly reporting to me, he was always
willing to help. He was always willing to do
this. And I sense that leaders and especially
young people, Michael, I think if they can just
appreciate and take that view, that networking
is so crucial. And it's just crucial and important
even in personal life, the ability to build relationships,
right? I don't know if you realized it, but you
hit the core of networking. With what you said,
ever since the pandemic, networking was really
transactional. Before the pandemic, I feel it
was very transactional. I have a widget. You
have three dollars. You can have my widget and
that's it. But afterwards, it's become more relationship
oriented, more relational. And I used to go to
networking events. I was in a mortgage field.
I had to come home with a shoebox filled with
business cards. Look how good I did. What I did,
horrible, right? Now, all the people that I coach
and teach and everything else, and I'm mentoring
a few, when you go to a networking event, 15
cards, maybe 20, because then... I know that
you've spoken with them. You've created that
relationship. And of course, that builds up for
the follow -up, which is a whole nother story,
right? But it gives you the opportunity to follow
up with all these people. You create that relationship.
And when you create the relationship, you go
so much further. Absolutely. Can you share a
time when a mistake became the spark? for better
relationships or improved teamwork so it i think
maybe i can share times in which i've seen this
with clients right and i i again i go back to
say that in many of the companies michael what
was happening is that as they were becoming more
global the ability to communicate was becoming
harder considering time zones and all of that
the roles and so on and at some point companies
suddenly realized that look there has to be a
way in which we have to make this work because
you're serving a global client you're serving
someone who's across zones and one of the things
that they did is that they actually made 50 percent
of their sort of appraisal process to be like
having a weighted average of 50 % through the
team collaboration. So in the earlier world,
what used to happen is a lot of conflict. I blame
you that, you know what, Michael has to show
up at 10 o 'clock his time and I have to show
up at midnight my time and all these things were
happening. And I think it was, again, just this
whole view of how do we appreciate working and
making collaboration happen. and i just say this
more generally rather than quoting an instance
but i say that i think It becomes so much more,
again, that longitudinal view. I've seen people
when they have to do cross -selling as a skill
set, right? How do I know what is Michael doing?
What am I doing? What is the third person doing?
Then they go and spend some time, what I call
day in the life of a customer. And they together
then go and pitch to the client. And I think
prior to that, and I just, again, I say this
because When you're working in a silo matrix
situation, what tends to happen is that you're
in your world and you're doing your thing. And
lots of companies have what I call shouting match
cultures, which means that something happens
and something doesn't happen. Like they just
escalate and elevate and escalate. And that's
just the thing that that's the way things should
be done. And on the flip side is that I think
if you just have a way in which you can kind
of. Say that, look, this is the one way in which
we have to make this happen. And increasingly
now with so much work being done globally across
teams, right? So I say that those are two or
three ways or two or three instances where I've
seen clients where how do we get past these my
tower of excellence and look beyond. Good, good.
Okay. How do you help people handle conflict
in a way that strengthens relationships instead
of tearing them apart? Yeah, so I think so much
has been written on conflict and there are all
these stages of conflict that it's in a sort
of early stage and then it's brewing and it's
getting bigger and then you don't have the strength
to call someone out and then it continues to
brew and it just becomes so big and then it just...
gets to a stage where it's unavoidable or inevitable
and then you do the post -mortem and try to fix
that now a lot of what is becoming more popular
michael in organizations today is what we call
non -violent communication or nbc and the microsoft
ceo actually noticed this in his company when
he took over, when he realized that we're far
behind in our product strategy, which is to say
that we missed out on mobility, we missed out
on social media, we missed out on what else,
on search engine and so on. But what he wanted
to fix was the culture, which is saying that
every man or every person was for themselves.
And so what the nonviolent communication is essentially
saying is that I still communicate what I...
feel based on a certain need which is not being
felt. And there's a kind of certain process to
that, but it's just a very powerful way of almost
making sure that the conflict is not there. It's
almost like the pre -conflict stage, if you can.
And I think if companies and managers can start
practicing that, then you almost are, you're
sharing what you want, deeply waste on what you
feel without getting fit. very aggressive or
shouting or anything like that. And it's just
a skill. And I feel that it's such an important
skill today because even when people have to
give feedback in some cultures, giving straight
feedback is very easy. In some cultures, it's
not very easy. And therefore, people are moving
around and things like that. So this nonviolent
communication, NBC, is basically written by this
guy called Marshall Rosenberg, right? He's written
that book. And he just... says that, look, this
is a good way for us to do away with this whole
sort of sandwich feedback and becoming very aggressive.
And I think that is one very tried and tested
approach that many companies are doing today.
And that's so true. The culture of a company
comes from the top down. And like you said, it's
a skill that they have to master. You can't just
say, okay, I'm going to change the culture of
my company, and overnight it's going to change.
They have to practice. Now, the upper echelon,
the CEOs, the C -suite executives, even the supervisors
have to practice because the new people coming
in just say, oh, this is the culture, and they
accept it. but it has to work from the top down.
And that's part of the training that I give the
C -suite executives, because when I teach the
workplace, when I do a workshop for them, and
if nothing changes from up top, then what I'm
doing is for naught, right? It's not going to
do anything. So it's a skill and they have to
master it. And once they master it, then everybody
gets along that much better. That's right. Okay.
So people learn in different ways. How can a
leader shape communication so everyone in the
room feels engaged and understood? Yeah, great
question. I think one of the challenges that
people have experienced even more. pronouncedly,
which is the fact that how people see communication
post -COVID. And I say this because all of our
preferences of how we used to communicate and
what's happening because of the intervention
of technology has changed that. But I had to
do a workshop, Michael, I think in the middle
of COVID, how do you lead people in, how do you
lead hybrid teams? One of the things that I think
first, before we get to that is to be mindful
of the fact that the manager of the future will
have to lead people in these four boxes that
I give, which is to say that synchronous, asynchronous
on one axis, and remotely and together in another
axis, which means that I'm either on a Zoom call
or a team call, that's one, or let's say we do
a call and someone... picks it up as a recording
i'm in an office physically or i'm doing that
remotely and therefore you cannot take the view
that i'm good at one thing or used to lead people
you know being in the office like the world the
workplace is changing in a way that as a ceo
of microsoft says that you have to be good in
all four because the younger generation has that
has their context now generally what tends to
happen in the post COVID because so many other
companies are doing some combination of hybrid
two plus three five plus zero whatever it is
like whatever works for them in their own sort
of world which means that you should have a quick
sort of a protocol or a rule of like how you're
going to communicate which means okay if it's
an emergency You can text me. If it's a client
communication, we do an email. If it's a team
kind of a conversation, we can use Slack or we
can use Teams or we can use something. So I think
what works is defining the protocol and also
keeping in mind that every generation also has
a slight preference. Like I remember from my
time and I'm sure as you can relate that I preferred
writing emails and that's just the way I felt
that the boss should know and everybody else
should know. Over time, like I'm thinking that
maybe other mediums are like easier, maybe a
voice note. And I see and I learned that from
the younger generation. So I think every generation
has a preference, but the way in which you can
manage it a little bit tightly is to just have
a certain rule to say that, listen, if it's expected
to be, it's a client and expected to be written
in 24 hours, this is the medium. If it's less
than four hours. use a chat. If it is 48 hours,
use this. And I think if we can do that, then
just makes it easy. And today, most companies
are deploying technology in a good way, but it's
this protocol that needs to be set. Absolutely.
You first have to figure out who your customer
base is, and that's how they receive. What you're
saying, whether it's a group chat, whether it's
a texting, whether it's a voicemail, an email,
whether it's an email with a video, whatever,
you can figure all of this out as soon as you
figure out your customer base. Now you may have
extra people within that, but you have that customer
base and that's how you deal with them. So yes,
I agree. And I have to remember that every day
because really what you were talking about was.
When I do a workshop, I have to keep it interactive
and I have to keep it up to where they will all
stay interested. And if I'm talking to a bunch
of Gen Z or to a bunch of boomers, it's two completely
different workshops. Same information, but it's
completely different. All right. So let's bring
this podcast full circle. If someone listening
wants to grow their influence at work, starting
today. What's the first simple action that they
should take? I'll just say two things here. First
and foremost, a leader becomes a true leader
and revines himself or herself by... becoming
more and more self -aware. And this sounds very
simplistic, but I think as we see the outside
context changing, the inside context changing,
meaning to say that more people of different
ages are coming together, the external world
is changing in such a rapid place, like it's
becoming the perfect storm. And the more we know
that how and who we are and how do we show up,
for our customers, for our suppliers, for our
people, for our peers. It goes a long way. And
some of the best leaders that I can think of,
Michael, who work with global companies like
Unilever and so on, it's just their ability to
be flexible and adaptable. We often use this
line that those who are coachable are scalable.
So it isn't about 30 years of experience or 25
years of experience, but it is about, okay. Despite
the 30 -year experience, Chad GPT can make a
dent into your experience. So can you be flexible
enough, humble enough? So I would say that if
you can invest your time in self -awareness,
that is one very simple and an ongoing thing
that one can do. So that's just the one, but
I'll leave it at that because you asked me for
one. I think that's very important, the self
-awareness, because that will open you up to
listening. to listening, whether it's to your
manager or supervisor or to your peers, right?
If you open yourself up, then you will actually
gain more information. This was great. This was
packed with insights. The kind people replay
because it hit home. If you're listening and
thinking, I can use that at work tomorrow, then
you're already ahead. To our guests, thank you
for sharing your experience and your approach
to leading people with clarity and purpose. And
to everyone tuning in, pick one idea from today
and put it to use in your next interaction. Growth
doesn't come from knowing it. It comes from doing
it. Until next time, keep building relationships
that matter. Keep learning from every conversation
and keep turning knowledge into real progress.
I can't begin to thank you enough. But Nikhil,
if somebody wanted to get hold of you, if somebody
wanted your knowledge or to be coached or a workshop,
how would they do it? Thank you, Michael. It's
been a real pleasure. I've really enjoyed it.
I think we've talked about a few things which
I think are relevant for every one of us, including
us in our own profession, which is that how we
look at the changing workplace, the worker, and
the work itself. I think the easiest way for
people to get in touch is, I would say, LinkedIn.
It's today the most commonly used platform for
professionals. Look me up on LinkedIn and you'll
find all the other details. I have my website
details there. I have a YouTube channel, of course,
which gives you the the videos of the podcast.
And the podcast is called Working with Gen Z,
which is again available on the most popular
platforms as well. Look me up, LinkedIn, and
that should become your one source to kind of
find the other ways to look me up. Thank you.
Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast.
I'm sure that all my listeners took something
from what we were discussing and they'll use
it. Thank you again. Thank you, Michael. Have
a good one. Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere.
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A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such
information. insights today. And of course, a
big shout out to you, our amazing listeners,
for tuning in and spending your time with us.
If you're interested in my digital courses, being
coached or having me come and talk to your company,
just go to Michael and fill out the request form.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect.
It's about being present. So take what you've
learned today, get out there and make some meaningful
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