WEBVTT 00:00:15.529 --> 00:00:18.010 Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building 00:00:18.010 --> 00:00:21.170 Profitable Connections, the podcast where we 00:00:21.170 --> 00:00:24.309 strip away the fluff and get real about networking 00:00:24.309 --> 00:00:29.010 fuels your business and your life. Today's episode 00:00:29.010 --> 00:00:31.949 is going to challenge the way you think about 00:00:31.949 --> 00:00:35.909 success. My guest believes that the four -hour 00:00:35.909 --> 00:00:39.469 workday isn't some dream. It's the standard we 00:00:39.469 --> 00:00:42.759 should all be aiming for. His philosophy flips 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:46.340 the script on the old hustle mentality. The goal 00:00:46.340 --> 00:00:50.799 of business isn't a maximum growth at all costs. 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:54.259 It's a minimalist freedom, building the life 00:00:54.259 --> 00:00:57.859 you want on your terms. And here's the kicker. 00:00:58.509 --> 00:01:01.049 Networking is the key to making that freedom 00:01:01.049 --> 00:01:04.670 possible, not by piling on more contacts, events, 00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:08.189 or obligations, but by creating the right intentional 00:01:08.189 --> 00:01:11.769 relationships that multiply your time and your 00:01:11.769 --> 00:01:15.829 results. So buckle up, buttercup, because we're 00:01:15.829 --> 00:01:18.269 about to dive into how you can design a network 00:01:18.269 --> 00:01:21.569 that buys back your hours, boosts your profits, 00:01:21.750 --> 00:01:26.790 and gives you the freedom you've been chasing. 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.819 So let's get started. That was a bit of a mouthful 00:01:30.819 --> 00:01:34.180 for me, but I think I got it. I'd like to welcome 00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:37.780 to the podcast, Jermaine Cheatham. And I would 00:01:37.780 --> 00:01:39.920 like to ask you, first of all, welcome to the 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.420 podcast. And could you give us a little bit about 00:01:42.420 --> 00:01:47.060 your background and how you got here today? Hey, 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:48.659 Michael. Thanks, man. I appreciate you having 00:01:48.659 --> 00:01:52.500 me. I'm glad to be here. My background is, since 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:55.340 I was young, since I was five, six, seven, I 00:01:55.340 --> 00:01:59.420 always wanted freedom. And that's financial freedom. 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:01.500 That's time freedom. That's location freedom. 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.260 I just wanted freedom in life in general. And 00:02:04.260 --> 00:02:08.680 I didn't know how to get it until I ran into 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:13.199 business and sales. And that was the quickest, 00:02:13.340 --> 00:02:15.840 most fastest, most efficient way for me to obtain 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.740 all those freedoms is through sales and entrepreneurship. 00:02:18.939 --> 00:02:21.840 And to speak to your audience is the best way 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:25.580 to excel. in sales and entrepreneurship is not 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:28.439 trying to reinvent the wheel. It's simply to 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:33.000 connect with other people, AKA networking that 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:36.979 already have your ideal client in their network 00:02:36.979 --> 00:02:39.500 and have their trust. And that is the ultimate 00:02:39.500 --> 00:02:44.400 leverage. And so that's that one idea created 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:45.979 all the freedom I ever wanted in my life and 00:02:45.979 --> 00:02:49.840 in my business. Wow. That's great. That's great. 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:57.539 So you, When did you obtain that freedom? Subjective. 00:02:57.539 --> 00:02:59.780 Financial freedom is a different number for everybody. 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:02.159 Time freedom is a different number for everybody. 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:06.280 I didn't really gain this freedom until I made 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:09.659 the leap from employee. to entrepreneur because 00:03:09.659 --> 00:03:12.800 then i started to own my time i started to own 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.580 all my income and i had autonomy of my life so 00:03:16.580 --> 00:03:20.439 that was back in 2016 when i made that leap from 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:23.520 the corporate business structure working for 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:28.219 somebody else to i'm doing this on my own probably 00:03:28.219 --> 00:03:34.280 scary also making that jump for sure but it's 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:36.259 not as scary as being a slave to the day you 00:03:36.259 --> 00:03:40.110 die Yeah, that's so true. Listen, I'm a former 00:03:40.110 --> 00:03:43.669 business owner myself. I had pizzerias, restaurants, 00:03:44.270 --> 00:03:47.169 Ben & Jerry's. I had it all. I was in New York. 00:03:47.289 --> 00:03:50.110 And the fast -paced, I was all into the fast 00:03:50.110 --> 00:03:52.949 -paced. I moved down here to Georgia, and it 00:03:52.949 --> 00:03:56.849 slowed down. And I got into my own thing without 00:03:56.849 --> 00:04:00.349 the storefront. But that's a story for another 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:04.550 day. Most people think networking is about adding 00:04:04.550 --> 00:04:08.539 more and more connections. more events, and more 00:04:08.539 --> 00:04:12.560 time spent. How does a minimalist approach to 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:15.719 networking look different, and why might it actually 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:20.720 be more effective? From a minimalist lens, only 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:23.100 thing you're looking for is leverage. You're 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:25.740 looking to put in a little bit and get a lot 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:27.779 out. And so when you're thinking about leverage 00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:29.839 from a business context, you want to make sure 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:32.079 whatever you're selling, your product or service, 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:35.180 is highly lucrative. And so what I decided to 00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:38.899 do is get into probably the most lucrative space 00:04:38.899 --> 00:04:40.939 you can find, and that's financial services. 00:04:41.540 --> 00:04:43.899 Because it's an evergreen need for businesses. 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:46.519 They always need this thing. And it's something 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:48.980 that doesn't ever go out of style, regardless 00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:51.519 of what's going on in the economy. It's always 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:54.600 in demand. That's one aspect of it, is picking 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.399 the right... actual product or service to sell. 00:04:57.480 --> 00:04:59.439 That's number one. And then from that lens, once 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:00.879 you find something that's highly leverageable 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.540 and lucrative, then you figure out, I don't need 00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:05.860 a hundred contacts because if I have a hundred 00:05:05.860 --> 00:05:09.439 contacts sending me business or deals, I have 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:12.100 to manage those people. I have to manage their 00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:14.879 protocols and their procedures and their personalities 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:19.800 versus let me find 10 that actually give me the 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:23.079 same amount of, say, income that the 100 would 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:25.399 give me without all the headache of dealing with 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:27.980 10x the amount of people, personalities, and 00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:31.040 procedures. So it's really about finding the 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.720 right product or service with the right key strategic 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:37.139 partners that have your ideal customer in their 00:05:37.139 --> 00:05:41.220 space and in their... sphere of influence and 00:05:41.220 --> 00:05:43.959 then leverage that relationship because the psychology 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:48.240 of trust is always at play. If I. I'm friends 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:51.220 with Roger and Roger knows the client that I 00:05:51.220 --> 00:05:54.120 ultimately want to be in touch with. Roger is 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:55.699 going to put me in touch with that client and 00:05:55.699 --> 00:05:57.579 that client is going to trust Roger. Therefore, 00:05:57.759 --> 00:05:59.839 they're going to trust me. It's just how psychology 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:02.480 works. This isn't rocket science. And so when 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:04.540 you have a lucrative product or service and you 00:06:04.540 --> 00:06:06.800 have this type of flywheel where people are bringing 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:09.079 you into the deals that are pre -selling these 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:12.240 deals for you. The clients just sign. They don't 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.459 ask any questions. There's no back and forth. 00:06:15.019 --> 00:06:17.139 It's just a seamless way to do business. And 00:06:17.139 --> 00:06:19.000 so that's where the leverage really lies, where 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.160 you're not spending all day working on deals 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:23.779 or prospecting. You let your strategic partners 00:06:23.779 --> 00:06:26.480 do all that work for you. And it's a win. Your 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:28.399 product or service has to make sure it helps 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.839 your referring partner win. It helps him sell 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:33.899 whatever he's selling. And it also helps their 00:06:33.899 --> 00:06:35.800 clients. So you have to make sure everyone's 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.379 rowing in the right same direction. And then 00:06:38.379 --> 00:06:42.480 business becomes... Simple, easy, and fun. I 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:46.740 understand all of that. So you had to work your 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:51.459 way through the cloud of just hit and miss clients 00:06:51.459 --> 00:06:56.060 to get to your 10, let's say, of those clients 00:06:56.060 --> 00:06:59.839 that will refer you, that will pay more attention 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:04.759 to you. But how did you get through that cloud, 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.980 that fact of you having to meet? a hundred people 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:12.720 to get to the 10. Yeah. So the easiest way I 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.100 went about doing this is number one, I checked 00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:17.600 on who was already in my network, who do I already 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:20.740 know in my Rolodex, in my phone. And so I started 00:07:20.740 --> 00:07:22.399 to strategically start reaching out to people 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:24.740 already new in the business, my business world 00:07:24.740 --> 00:07:27.839 and saying, Hey, do you know X? Do you know people 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.519 work in X? And I wanted to get into the healthcare 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:32.379 space. I wanted to get into the medical space. 00:07:32.540 --> 00:07:34.639 So I literally started just reaching out to people 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:37.779 I knew in the business world. And hey, do you 00:07:37.779 --> 00:07:39.220 know people in the healthcare space? I'd like 00:07:39.220 --> 00:07:40.620 to meet with you and see if I can get into that 00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:43.680 arena. And so I met with a lady, she was a friend 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.759 of mine. She was a marketing person here in Arizona. 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:48.439 We had coffee and she's like, yeah, call Roger. 00:07:48.899 --> 00:07:50.480 And then I talked to Roger and obviously it was 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:53.459 a warm introduction. This is networking 101, 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:55.860 just talking to people, that's it. We're not 00:07:55.860 --> 00:07:58.480 selling anything. And so I talked to Roger and 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:00.649 he tells me, hey, we're having an event. I go 00:08:00.649 --> 00:08:03.290 to the event and I meet all these people that 00:08:03.290 --> 00:08:05.970 are in the medical space that sell medical software, 00:08:06.230 --> 00:08:09.810 medical equipment, and all of their clients actually 00:08:09.810 --> 00:08:13.490 needed my financial services to help him and 00:08:13.490 --> 00:08:16.050 her sell their equipment and software to the 00:08:16.050 --> 00:08:18.990 doctors. And so my point is this, is you're just 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:21.649 looking for a couple of contacts to leverage 00:08:21.649 --> 00:08:24.819 because Once you get in with one of the contacts, 00:08:25.060 --> 00:08:27.180 they have buddies. They have other sales reps 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:29.600 at their same organizations that now bring you 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:31.779 into the fold because, again, the psychology 00:08:31.779 --> 00:08:35.419 of trust. If Roger uses Jermaine, then Tim will 00:08:35.419 --> 00:08:37.639 feel comfortable using Jermaine, and so will 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:39.820 Sarah. And then next year, I'm doing the financing 00:08:39.820 --> 00:08:42.940 for the entire organization. And so that's a 00:08:42.940 --> 00:08:45.620 simple way of how I thought about, let me just... 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:48.240 try to knock over the lead domino. And usually 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.320 that's just one person. And that was the lady 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.080 that I met with in marketing that was already 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:57.500 in my phone. That sounds strangely equivalent 00:08:57.500 --> 00:09:01.899 to what I go through as a speaker and as a coach 00:09:01.899 --> 00:09:06.679 and a trainer. I go for that keynote, that workshop. 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:10.179 But when I get into the company, other people 00:09:10.179 --> 00:09:14.909 find out about what I am speaking about. They 00:09:14.909 --> 00:09:18.210 tell friends. So it sounds eerily close to the 00:09:18.210 --> 00:09:22.230 same type of thing. Okay. You advocate the four 00:09:22.230 --> 00:09:27.169 -hour workday as a standard. What role does networking 00:09:27.169 --> 00:09:30.429 play in creating that freedom? And how can we 00:09:30.429 --> 00:09:33.409 avoid letting networking itself become another 00:09:33.409 --> 00:09:40.409 time drain? I have one key thing about business. 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:43.600 If you're working more than four hours a day, 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:48.080 you are working on the wrong thing, period. You're 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.740 not finding the leverage. And maybe that is what 00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:52.960 you're selling. Maybe that is who you're selling 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:55.279 it to. And maybe that's how you're doing it. 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.500 From a networking lens, what you need to think 00:09:58.500 --> 00:10:01.200 about is you don't want to be the expert in anything. 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.139 Because if you're the expert in anything, that 00:10:04.139 --> 00:10:06.940 means you have to actually deliver the service 00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:11.639 or goods. You have to actually do the work. I'm 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:14.799 an advocate of being just a connector, a middleman, 00:10:14.940 --> 00:10:17.100 a person that sits in the middle of the person 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:19.039 that needs the thing and the person that sells 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.980 the thing. And I bring you together. I don't 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:25.039 do any work and I get paid for the connection. 00:10:25.299 --> 00:10:27.940 And so when you think about networking from that 00:10:27.940 --> 00:10:32.240 lens, you have to pick the right product or service 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:34.019 you want to connect people with and the right 00:10:34.019 --> 00:10:35.740 customer you want to connect them with because 00:10:35.740 --> 00:10:37.620 they got to have money. They got to be in pain. 00:10:38.330 --> 00:10:40.029 They have to be able to afford your thing that 00:10:40.029 --> 00:10:41.929 you're connecting them with. And same thing with 00:10:41.929 --> 00:10:43.570 the service. It has to be a lucrative service 00:10:43.570 --> 00:10:46.269 that is evergreen. So when you think about it 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:48.710 from that lens, of course, you're not working 00:10:48.710 --> 00:10:51.730 more than a few hours a day because you're basically 00:10:51.730 --> 00:10:54.669 trying to be a surgeon with a scalpel versus 00:10:54.669 --> 00:10:56.870 just throw stuff against the wall and see if 00:10:56.870 --> 00:10:59.090 it sticks. So it's about picking the right service 00:10:59.090 --> 00:11:01.769 and finding the right people that need that service. 00:11:01.889 --> 00:11:04.710 And then you're obviously flywheel is going to 00:11:04.710 --> 00:11:08.210 be the connectors. all need this to make their 00:11:08.210 --> 00:11:10.509 business work. And you're not doing the work. 00:11:10.590 --> 00:11:13.330 You're not delivering it. You're not doing any 00:11:13.330 --> 00:11:15.309 of the client work. You're just connecting people, 00:11:15.509 --> 00:11:19.049 wiping your hands and everyone's happy. That 00:11:19.049 --> 00:11:23.230 sounds, I used to be a print broker and I used 00:11:23.230 --> 00:11:27.370 to have clients that needed printing. I developed 00:11:27.370 --> 00:11:30.850 a relationship with printers and it flowed through 00:11:30.850 --> 00:11:33.730 me, but I didn't have to do anything, but I was 00:11:33.730 --> 00:11:37.669 getting paid. So it's like the same thing. Okay. 00:11:37.769 --> 00:11:42.889 So many entrepreneurs chase maximum growth, which 00:11:42.889 --> 00:11:46.789 often means constant expansion or contacts and 00:11:46.789 --> 00:11:50.710 commitments. How does networking shift when the 00:11:50.710 --> 00:11:56.090 goal is freedom instead of scale? If you want 00:11:56.090 --> 00:11:57.529 to scale and you want to have a billion dollar 00:11:57.529 --> 00:12:00.009 company, you're going to be working 16 hour days. 00:12:00.190 --> 00:12:03.039 That's just the reality of it. And so at what 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.159 point are you going to be satisfied? At what 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:09.639 point is enough enough? And so I realized in 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.259 my early 20s when I started making, for me, very 00:12:13.259 --> 00:12:16.940 good money, $20 ,000, $30 ,000 a month, I realized 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:21.299 I can't spend all this. What am I buying? What 00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:23.620 do I really need that's going to fulfill me? 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:26.399 And you try, you experiment, you buy stuff and 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:34.230 you realize that wasn't it. about making more 00:12:34.230 --> 00:12:37.200 money. and just working all day. Life for me 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:38.899 is about personal fulfillment. And a lot of that 00:12:38.899 --> 00:12:41.940 means getting my time back. I like to work, but 00:12:41.940 --> 00:12:43.419 I don't want to work all day because there's 00:12:43.419 --> 00:12:46.299 so much more to explore in life. I love to exercise. 00:12:46.419 --> 00:12:48.139 I love to go on hikes. I love to go on vacation. 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.980 I love to travel. I love to read. I love to explore. 00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:54.120 I'm okay working from eight till noon, but after 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.019 that, I want to do other stuff. And so for me, 00:12:57.019 --> 00:13:00.039 I'm not looking for maximal scale. I'm looking 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.950 for maximal personal fulfillment. From a networking 00:13:03.950 --> 00:13:07.070 lens, that's where I realized when I was doing 00:13:07.070 --> 00:13:09.330 financial services, I was like, okay, I have 00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:11.509 a very lucrative thing here. I don't need to 00:13:11.509 --> 00:13:14.049 do a hundred deals a month to make a very good 00:13:14.049 --> 00:13:16.450 income. I could do a handful, which will take 00:13:16.450 --> 00:13:19.090 a few hours. And obviously I'll have some prospecting 00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:20.370 and stuff and staying in touch with my clients, 00:13:20.409 --> 00:13:23.019 but it's not. It's a few hours a day. And so 00:13:23.019 --> 00:13:25.620 when I realized this thing is very valuable and 00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.419 I found out, okay, these guys that have the ultrasound 00:13:28.419 --> 00:13:31.740 equipment or the MRI equipment or any of the 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:35.460 medical devices, they need my lending services 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:38.179 to help their doctors get their devices. Plus, 00:13:38.259 --> 00:13:40.259 it's a tax benefit for the doctors because it's 00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:42.899 100 % tax deductible. The banks and the underwriters, 00:13:42.980 --> 00:13:46.250 they want to lend out the money. So all I was 00:13:46.250 --> 00:13:47.990 simply doing is staying in the middle. I'm not 00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:50.710 the expert. The banks are the experts. The medical 00:13:50.710 --> 00:13:52.590 device sales guys, they're the experts in the 00:13:52.590 --> 00:13:55.110 equipment. The doctors are the expert in ophthalmology 00:13:55.110 --> 00:13:57.330 or whatever it is, right? So I'm simply just 00:13:57.330 --> 00:13:59.009 bringing the bank that wants to lend out money, 00:13:59.129 --> 00:14:01.190 the doctor that needs the money to buy, the equipment 00:14:01.190 --> 00:14:03.730 seller that needs to sell the equipment. All 00:14:03.730 --> 00:14:07.129 together, I wipe my hands in a few hours a day. 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.080 Then I can go to the gym, go on a walk, go on 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:12.259 vacation, do this from anywhere because it's 00:14:12.259 --> 00:14:14.200 a digital business. It's about leverage again, 00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:16.559 the right product, selling to the right person, 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.240 the right way through strategic partners. Wow, 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.879 that's good. Okay, so what are some signs that 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.899 someone is over networking, collecting contacts, 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:32.639 but losing focus? And how can they reverse that 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:37.179 into meaningful, minimalist connections? Okay, 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:40.679 so number one is if you're talking to people, 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:43.940 if you're chasing anybody, that's a number one 00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:46.620 sign. Never chase anybody. You'll know after 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:48.740 the first encounter if this person is real, if 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:51.179 it makes sense, if it feels right. You're going 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:52.840 to have instant feedback that this is a real 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.480 thing. That's number one. Number two is if you 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.639 always have people trying to waste your time. 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.559 Let's get a coffee. Let's do this. Sure, I'd 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:07.419 love to have a coffee with you. But specifically, 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:10.860 what do you do? How do you do it? And how does 00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:13.700 it align with what I do? So we're both rowing 00:15:13.700 --> 00:15:15.679 in the same direction. But more importantly, 00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:20.539 we're both getting paid sufficiently. Because 00:15:20.539 --> 00:15:23.879 life is short. We all die. I want to make money 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.840 on my connections. And I want to also help my 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:29.539 connections make money too. It's a two -way street. 00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:33.409 I want us both. to get paid. And if I don't see 00:15:33.409 --> 00:15:35.629 a throughput where we can get paid, there's absolutely 00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:38.309 no reason for us to meet unless you know somebody 00:15:38.309 --> 00:15:40.769 that can help me get paid and help them get paid. 00:15:40.870 --> 00:15:42.870 And I'm happy to pay you a commission for making 00:15:42.870 --> 00:15:45.809 that happen. So I think a lot of it comes down 00:15:45.809 --> 00:15:48.230 to you have to be direct with people. The director 00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:51.929 you are, the clearer and the more lucrative. 00:15:53.259 --> 00:15:55.200 the relationship's going to be. If you notice 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.220 a lot of people will hem and haw and they're 00:15:57.220 --> 00:15:59.240 just happy and they're just, they want to be 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.039 friendly and they're people pleasers. People 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.039 pleasers are usually some of the worst entrepreneurs 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:06.559 and salespeople. So if you see a people pleaser 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.440 or you get that kind of vibe, run for the hills 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:10.559 because they're just going to waste your time 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.580 and they're not doing any business. People that 00:16:12.580 --> 00:16:15.080 are busy are doing stuff. So those are my two 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.559 main things is focus on ignoring people pleasers 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.460 and staying focused on who's really going to 00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:24.240 be able to send you business. Okay, sure. And 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.460 those salesy type people, the people who really 00:16:27.460 --> 00:16:29.980 aren't doing business, they're going to your 00:16:29.980 --> 00:16:33.399 networking events more for social reasons rather 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.980 than making money. And if you're a type priority, 00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:39.840 I have a slightly different take on a networking 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.960 event. I go with what's called a servant's heart. 00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:48.360 I see what I can do for them. not what they can 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.559 do for me. So I'm not looking for a sale. I'm 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:54.679 not looking how I can strategically align with 00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:57.360 them. I'm just looking to put two people together 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:01.500 and I walk away. I have them because in turn, 00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.500 they look at me, they say, look, Mike gave me 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:07.140 a referral. So I'm going to have to give him 00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:09.759 one. And so it's a slightly different take on 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:11.920 what you are saying, but it's along the same 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:16.539 lines. Okay. In your view. What's the biggest 00:17:16.539 --> 00:17:19.480 myth about networking that keeps business owners 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:24.059 stuck in long hours and unnecessary busyness? 00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:29.319 I think that they need to talk to everybody. 00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:33.140 You don't need to talk to anybody except for 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:37.680 your ideal avatar or ideal customer. And in order 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:40.079 to know who your ideal customer is or client 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:44.400 or partner is. You need to know where the leverage 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.000 is based on whatever you're selling. It's surprising. 00:17:47.140 --> 00:17:49.779 Sometimes you'll talk to people and you don't 00:17:49.779 --> 00:17:52.160 even think that they know what they even offer 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.079 because they're not even quite sure about it. 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:55.980 They're not even crystal clear about like, where's 00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:58.859 their value and their proposition. And so the 00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:01.400 clearer you are in exactly what you sell, then 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:04.000 you can get laser focused on finding those type 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.680 of partners that have. your ideal client already 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:09.740 in their network and their influence. And so 00:18:09.740 --> 00:18:12.039 those are the only people you should focus on. 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:15.200 Like for me in my financial services, I only 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.839 focused on medical device salespeople. That is 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.779 it. So any event, any person I talk to, that 00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:24.240 is the specific type of person I want to talk 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.559 to. And that's it because they can bring me deal 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.039 after deal that are pre -sold and pre -closed. 00:18:29.299 --> 00:18:32.640 Don't talk to everybody. Talk to the person that 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:38.339 is your key ideal avatar. Exactly right. That's 00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:43.000 exactly right. Okay. How do you personally decide 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:47.460 which relationships to invest in deeply and which 00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:50.500 to let go without feeling like you're missing 00:18:50.500 --> 00:18:53.519 out on opportunities? This kind of is what we 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:57.660 just talked about, but not really. Number one 00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:03.180 is I'm a capitalist. So if it's a lucrative relationship 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:09.539 and I like the person, then that's what I'm going 00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:11.980 to invest all my time and effort in. If it's 00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:14.920 a lucrative relationship and I don't really like 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.839 the person, I'm going to try to mitigate my personal 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:21.299 contact with that person and make it more transactional. 00:19:21.940 --> 00:19:24.319 And so I'm not really going to invest as heavily 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.599 if we're just not seeing eye to eye on whatever 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:31.240 it might be. And typically 90 % of all the relationships 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:34.369 you actually have that are really good. and really 00:19:34.369 --> 00:19:37.210 long lasting, they're lucrative and you like 00:19:37.210 --> 00:19:39.809 the person. And usually the ones that those 10 00:19:39.809 --> 00:19:41.829 % where you really don't like the person, but 00:19:41.829 --> 00:19:44.329 it is lucrative, they typically fizzle out sooner 00:19:44.329 --> 00:19:45.910 or later because they're going to find someone 00:19:45.910 --> 00:19:49.009 they actually do vibe with and that's okay. But 00:19:49.009 --> 00:19:51.549 before you write someone off, here's one thing 00:19:51.549 --> 00:19:53.710 I always try to do is give the person a chance. 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:56.180 Like really try to connect with them, really 00:19:56.180 --> 00:19:58.039 have a conversation with them, ask them about 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:00.740 their family, what they're up to, and try to 00:20:00.740 --> 00:20:03.440 connect with them on a human level. And for whatever 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:06.200 reason, if it still doesn't work, then c 'est 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:08.200 la vie. It is what it is. But you have to at 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:10.140 least give people an opportunity because I believe 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.819 in every human, there's a good heart there. It's 00:20:13.819 --> 00:20:16.579 just sometimes maybe it's a worldview or who 00:20:16.579 --> 00:20:18.779 knows what it might be, a personality clash. 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:20.660 I don't know. And sometimes you just don't see 00:20:20.660 --> 00:20:23.039 eye to eye, but you have to give it an opportunity. 00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:28.029 Good. Absolutely right. If someone only had four 00:20:28.029 --> 00:20:31.970 hours a day to run their business, what specific 00:20:31.970 --> 00:20:35.170 networking strategies would you tell them to 00:20:35.170 --> 00:20:39.450 focus on for maximum leverage? It depends on 00:20:39.450 --> 00:20:41.349 what they sell. I'm assuming it's going to be 00:20:41.349 --> 00:20:43.869 something lucrative. So if it's very lucrative, 00:20:43.950 --> 00:20:48.329 the only thing I'm going to find is. where is 00:20:48.329 --> 00:20:51.190 that client located? Who's the client? Who's 00:20:51.190 --> 00:20:53.069 this ideal client that would buy this thing or 00:20:53.069 --> 00:20:54.930 utilize this thing? And then I'm going to find 00:20:54.930 --> 00:20:57.990 out, okay, who already has this person in their 00:20:57.990 --> 00:21:01.130 network? So for example, for mine, it was medical 00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:03.390 device. People had all the doctors that I wanted 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:05.589 to offer my financial services to buy their equipment, 00:21:05.710 --> 00:21:08.730 right? But here's kind of an abstract idea. What 00:21:08.730 --> 00:21:11.710 if I sold weight loss services or fitness services? 00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:14.660 How do I find... the person that wants to lose 00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:16.559 weight? How do I find the person that wants to 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.200 get in shape? I have no idea. You can't even 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.240 tell. You would have no idea who wants to do 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.299 that. But you can make inferences based on psychology. 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.420 Who would have people that might want to get 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.660 in shape, might want to get stronger and look 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:32.900 better physically? Probably like high -end corporate 00:21:32.900 --> 00:21:35.900 dating coaches because all their CEOs that are 00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:38.680 maybe freshly off of a divorce or they're now 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:40.859 back in the dating market, they're going to want 00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:43.769 to look. their best, feel their best, lose 10 00:21:43.769 --> 00:21:46.410 pounds, put on 10 pounds of muscle. So I would 00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:48.250 just go to the corporate dating coaches instead 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:50.269 of trying to find this needle in the haystack 00:21:50.269 --> 00:21:52.609 and say, hey, corporate dating coach, let me 00:21:52.609 --> 00:21:55.309 offer all your clients 60 days of free training 00:21:55.309 --> 00:21:58.430 online. And then at the end of the 60 days, they 00:21:58.430 --> 00:21:59.970 can decide if they want to sign up for my package. 00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:03.089 This is a way, it's a win for all three parties. 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:06.460 That's what I would spend my four hours a day 00:22:06.460 --> 00:22:09.420 on is finding corporate dating coaches, or in 00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:12.319 my case, finding medical device salespeople to 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:15.740 talk to. Or whatever you're doing, find the leverage. 00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.799 You never sell to the customer directly. You 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.700 find the people that have their customer in their 00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:25.059 network, and then you leverage that psychology 00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:30.220 of trust. Good. Very good. You've said the goal 00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:34.109 of business is freedom, not growth. How do you 00:22:34.109 --> 00:22:37.329 build a network that actually supports your lifestyle 00:22:37.329 --> 00:22:40.690 goals instead of pulling you further away from 00:22:40.690 --> 00:22:43.809 them? Again, it starts with the product you pick. 00:22:43.990 --> 00:22:46.430 So you don't want to have to do 100 deals a month. 00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:48.509 You want to be able to do a couple. That's number 00:22:48.509 --> 00:22:51.130 one. Number two is you want to make sure you 00:22:51.130 --> 00:22:55.289 align yourself with partners and clients that 00:22:55.289 --> 00:22:59.059 do not waste your time. They're not messaging 00:22:59.059 --> 00:23:01.799 you all day long. They're not emailing you all 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:03.900 day long. They're not calling you all day long. 00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:07.099 You want low maintenance partnerships. Because 00:23:07.099 --> 00:23:10.240 the truth is, the people that are making the 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:12.940 most money, that are the most successful, they're 00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:15.880 always low maintenance for the most part. It's 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.819 always the headaches are the quote unquote losers, 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:21.799 the brokies, the people that aren't selling anything, 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:23.880 the people that are stressed out, and they're 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.960 going to take it out on you. It's always a litmus 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.039 test. Is this person calling me three times in 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:31.839 one day? Is this person emailing me four times 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:33.640 with a bunch of question marks? Are they texting 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.200 me? Are they bothering me? Because again, that 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:39.839 disrupts my peace. It disrupts my freedom, really. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.940 And I'm fine with a phone call and an email, 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.420 but I'll get back to you in 24 hours. I'll dictate 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:47.880 what our engagement will look like. And so you 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.480 have to sometimes fire clients, even if they're 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:53.920 a lucrative client, because they're causing you 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:56.059 trouble. and they're causing you problems in 00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:57.759 your life, and life's too short to deal with 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.140 people you don't like and that are a pain. I 00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:04.119 learned that a long time ago, to fire clients. 00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:06.900 And people who aren't used to that say, what 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:09.500 are you, out of your mind? I'm like, it's a lot 00:24:09.500 --> 00:24:11.940 easier just to fire them, find somebody else, 00:24:12.099 --> 00:24:16.200 and move on with your life. Okay, minimalism 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:21.000 often means cutting the clutter. What does clutter... 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:23.779 in networking look like and how can listeners 00:24:23.779 --> 00:24:26.960 do a clean sweep of their connections while keeping 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:32.380 doors open? Here's the deal. Everyone's heard 00:24:32.380 --> 00:24:36.920 of the 80 -20 rule, the Pareto principle. I believe 00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:42.900 in the 95 -5 principle. You get almost all of 00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:45.920 your outcomes from five people. It's just the 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.019 way it works. And so I would look at my Rolodex 00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:51.930 and be like, if this person isn't get me in touch 00:24:51.930 --> 00:24:58.009 with money, like actual revenue. If I've been 00:24:58.009 --> 00:24:59.769 talking to this person for a year or whatever 00:24:59.769 --> 00:25:04.049 it is, stop talking to them, quit following up 00:25:04.049 --> 00:25:06.509 with them because life is short and there's something 00:25:06.509 --> 00:25:09.809 called opportunity costs and they're big. And 00:25:09.809 --> 00:25:12.910 so if you're wasting your time on these 95 people, 00:25:12.990 --> 00:25:15.730 when you could be trying to find these five people. 00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:18.559 That's where all your energy and effort is. And 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:20.500 what you'll notice, if you've been around the 00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:22.319 block enough, you've done enough deals, you'll 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:25.460 start to notice the best relationships, the best 00:25:25.460 --> 00:25:27.799 partners, the best clients were the ones that 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:30.940 were effortless. It just happened naturally. 00:25:31.180 --> 00:25:33.460 There was no chasing. There wasn't all this, 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:35.599 let me stay in touch, let me stay in touch. No, 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:38.519 you actually stayed in touch because deals were 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.180 coming in every week, every month. That's how 00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:43.200 you stayed in touch. You stayed in touch at dinner, 00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:46.759 at lunch, at happy hour, whatever. it was almost 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.660 like an effortless relationship. And so if you 00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:52.920 find yourself like scratching and clawing and 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:57.579 trying and let it go, it will never, it's like 00:25:57.579 --> 00:25:59.240 any relationship. I don't care if it's friendships, 00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:01.779 romantic, whatever. If you're trying too hard, 00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.819 it isn't meant to be. And you're losing the opportunity 00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:07.940 cost to find something that will work out without 00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:12.000 any effort and it's enjoyable. All right, good. 00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:15.359 Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle. 00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:19.200 and look a little bit into the future. If you 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.380 had to give one piece of advice to someone who's 00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:25.759 currently overwhelmed by both their work hours 00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:29.160 and their networking efforts, what's the first 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:33.660 most freeing step they should take today? The 00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:36.779 first thing I would examine is what are you selling? 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.819 Like really, what are you selling? Because usually 00:26:40.819 --> 00:26:43.539 the time suck is either explaining what you're 00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:47.920 selling. doing demos on what you're saying, trying 00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:49.819 to convince people about what you're selling. 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:56.000 If you re -examine exactly what you sell, typically, 00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:58.420 and you pick a better vehicle to get you where 00:26:58.420 --> 00:27:01.059 you want to go, that will free up 80 % of your 00:27:01.059 --> 00:27:04.119 time. It's usually you're just chasing your tail, 00:27:04.299 --> 00:27:06.099 trying to sell something that's hard to sell 00:27:06.099 --> 00:27:10.119 just because you've always sold it. So that would 00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:11.940 be the one thing I would think about is re -examine 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:14.849 what you're selling. and find a better, more 00:27:14.849 --> 00:27:19.390 lucrative, more seamless, simple thing. Okay. 00:27:19.630 --> 00:27:23.769 Listen, Jermaine, this was great. It really showed 00:27:23.769 --> 00:27:27.869 somebody or my listeners exactly how to, not 00:27:27.869 --> 00:27:30.869 exactly, but almost exactly, how to trim their 00:27:30.869 --> 00:27:36.130 day down from 16 to 14 to 10 to 8, and hopefully 00:27:36.130 --> 00:27:39.990 at about four hours a day. Myself, I am not... 00:27:40.809 --> 00:27:43.710 I work at least 10 hours a day on one thing or 00:27:43.710 --> 00:27:47.470 another. I have a few hands in a few pots, so 00:27:47.470 --> 00:27:50.269 it's not just one business, but I understand 00:27:50.269 --> 00:27:53.069 what you're saying because I can't go on this 00:27:53.069 --> 00:27:56.049 forever. So I have to focus a little bit more. 00:27:56.410 --> 00:27:59.049 If somebody wanted to get hold of you, either 00:27:59.049 --> 00:28:02.109 to learn about the system, your hours, or to 00:28:02.109 --> 00:28:04.730 be coached by you, what's the best way that they 00:28:04.730 --> 00:28:07.680 can get hold of you? Yeah, they should go to 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:10.339 my website. It's creatorslearn .com, just like 00:28:10.339 --> 00:28:13.240 creators of the universe, learn .com. And I have 00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:15.920 a mini course on there where it goes over like 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.779 how to rethink what you sell and who you sell 00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:21.579 it to. And so I talk about these five characteristics 00:28:21.579 --> 00:28:24.640 of the ideal product or service and the four 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:27.319 characteristics of your ideal client. And then 00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:29.640 once you figure out that, we can figure out, 00:28:29.660 --> 00:28:32.640 okay, where do you find your strategic partners 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:34.440 to do all the selling for you, what we talked 00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:37.680 about here. I also have a cool dream income lifestyle 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:39.759 calculator because a lot of people think I need 00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:41.539 to have a million dollars a year to be financially 00:28:41.539 --> 00:28:44.339 free. And you actually put pen to paper and actually 00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:47.000 have an Excel calculator that shows you that 00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:48.980 you can live like a king on half a million dollars 00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:50.880 a year, which is only 50 grand a month, which 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.440 is not crazy. Yeah, they can check that out at 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:55.660 Creators Learn. I'm very active on LinkedIn as 00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:57.779 well. So looking forward to connecting with people. 00:28:58.769 --> 00:29:01.829 Okay, great. Jermaine, thank you so much for 00:29:01.829 --> 00:29:04.329 coming on the podcast, and I look forward to 00:29:04.329 --> 00:29:07.049 speaking with you soon. Great. Thanks, Michael. 00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:14.329 Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let's 00:29:14.329 --> 00:29:17.549 hear from our sponsors. David Neal, co -founder, 00:29:17.710 --> 00:29:21.140 Revved Up Kids. Revved Up Kids is on a mission 00:29:21.140 --> 00:29:24.579 to protect children and teens from sexual abuse, 00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:28.339 exploitation, and trafficking. They provide prevention 00:29:28.339 --> 00:29:31.940 training programs for children, teens, and adults. 00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.740 To learn more, go to revvedupkids .org. Henry 00:29:36.740 --> 00:29:40.109 Kaplan, Century 21. When it comes to making the 00:29:40.109 --> 00:29:43.109 biggest financial decision of your life, leave 00:29:43.109 --> 00:29:45.789 it in the hands of a proven professional, Henry 00:29:45.789 --> 00:29:49.430 Kaplan. Henry is a global real estate agent with 00:29:49.430 --> 00:29:53.509 Century 21, celebrating his 41st year in business. 00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:56.470 No matter where you're moving, Henry has the 00:29:56.470 --> 00:29:59.690 right connections for you. You can contact Henry 00:29:59.690 --> 00:30:07.940 at 561 -427 -4888. All right, folks. A huge thank 00:30:07.940 --> 00:30:09.940 you to our guests for sharing such incredible 00:30:09.940 --> 00:30:13.440 insights today. And of course, a big shout out 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:16.740 to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in 00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:19.660 and spending your time with us. If you're interested 00:30:19.660 --> 00:30:23.039 in my digital courses, being coached, or having 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.140 me come and talk to your company, just go to 00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:29.380 Michael and fill out the request form. Remember, 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.019 networking isn't about being perfect. It's about 00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:35.940 being present. So take what you've learned today. 00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:38.769 get out there, and make some meaningful connections. 00:30:39.329 --> 00:30:42.369 If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't 00:30:42.369 --> 00:30:45.710 forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share 00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:47.930 it with someone who could use a little networking 00:30:47.930 --> 00:30:50.930 inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going. 00:30:51.170 --> 00:30:55.609 You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, 00:30:55.809 --> 00:31:00.470 or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts.