Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
Connections. I'm your host, Michael Foreman,
and today we're pulling back the curtain on one
of the most overlooked truths in business. People
don't just buy what you sell, they buy why they
should buy it from you. My guest knows that sales
training isn't about fancy scripts or closing
tricks. It's about understanding people, building
trust, and creating lasting connections that
drive real growth. We're also digging into the
power of the pivot, why shifting your strategy
at the right time can be the difference between
thriving and just surviving. This is going to
be a conversation packed with clarity, strategy,
and action. So let's dive in. I'd like to welcome
to the podcast today, Stephen Davies. I would
really like to explain what he does, but I'm
going to let him explain it because he'll do
such a much better job than I will. Stephen,
welcome to the podcast. And why don't you give
us a little bit about your background? Thank
you, Michael. It's an absolute pleasure to be
here. And congratulations on your 100th podcast.
That is absolutely fantastic. Well done. Thank
you. Sales Geek. Sales Geek is a franchise network
of, what's the best way of describing it, ex
-VPs of sales, ex -sales directors, entrepreneurs,
everybody that's lived a big corporate life.
And now we work with smaller businesses and help
them with their sales training. We mentor people.
We work as fractional sales directors. We go
into businesses and instead of them having to
employ very expensive sales directors, we do
it on a fractional basis. I've been myself an
ex -VP of sales for a while now. I worked in
corporate sales in technology, in logistics.
I've run my own telecoms company, so I'm well
-versed in all aspects of sales. Okay, that's
great. Do you want to tell me a little bit about
how you got here from wherever you were in corporate?
What made that decision for you? Great question.
Corporate sales is a lot of fun. The strategizing
behind it is a lot of fun. But once you reach
a certain level in corporate sales, you spend
a lot of time managing upwards, which means you
step away from actually being with a sales team.
And I've always helped out my friends and my
neighbors with their smaller businesses, but
always on an unofficial basis. And at some point,
especially when I moved over here, I figured,
you know what, corporate sales was fun. It was
fun where I lived in Europe, spent a lot of time
in Washington and New York. But maybe my talents
lie elsewhere now. Maybe I can really drill down
into helping the smaller businesses using the
experience I've got to actually push out and
expand themselves. Okay. All right. So that gives
us a little better of an understanding about
where you came from. But let's go right into
the questions. I'm going to ask you a little
about understanding the buyer's mentality. Why
is it so important for businesses to truly understand
why people buy from them and how does it connect
to building stronger networks? Okay, so I'm going
to bring up the Cracker Barrel example because
that's my favorite. Cracker Barrel knew who was
buying from them. They knew where. people were
buying from them they knew when they had all
of this data what they didn't recognize was why
people were buying from them and because they
didn't recognize that when they made the changes
that they did it all went wrong now there are
other issues behind that but the fact remains
they had no idea why the vast majority of people
that are going to crack a barrel were actually
going there And you can pull that back to every
single business. If they don't understand why
their customers are buying from them, it's very
easy for them to head off in the wrong direction,
to advertise in the wrong place, to push the
wrong buttons, if you like, for their customers.
So I think in terms of bringing it back to networking,
when you're standing up there and talking about
your business to all of these people who you
would hope will refer their customers and their
friends to you. If you don't know why people
are buying from you, that's never going to work.
That's true. That's true. And would you say that
Cracker Barrel falls into the category of, if
it's not broken, don't fix it? No, because it
was broken. If you go back and look at their
share price and you look at their sales were
dropping off, they had to do something. I think
with Cracker Barrel Safe, I have the mantra of
evolution, not revolution, when it comes to sales
and when it comes to marketing. It's the same
with car companies. You never see very many car
companies going from one design straight to something
that's completely different. It puts customers
off. If they're used to one thing, you can change
it slowly over time. And if you look at cars,
you can see the evolution. But with Cracker Barrel,
that's not what they did. They went... From here
to here, and everybody went, whoa, hold on, this
is too fast. Most people don't like change. And
if you change things that, especially if they
go in there for comfort, that's never going to
work. You're right on, right on. Okay, let's
go a little bit beyond the close then. You've
said sales training isn't just about closing
deals. How should professionals shift their focus
when it comes to building relationships? that
lead to sales? I love that question. And I love
that question because I have a bugbear and my
bugbear is AI. I think what's happening, people
buy authenticity. People buy, it's a cliche,
but people do buy from people. And more and more,
there's a massive disconnect between how people
are presenting themselves online in networking
events, and who they actually are. Because they're
asking AI to write their scripts, they write
their elevator pitches, and that's not you. And
what's happening is that everybody is starting
to sound the same. If you can't get away from
that, then who's buying who? What are you buying?
Who are you buying? Because you always buy a
person, not necessarily a product. You've seen
me in networking events, networking meetings,
and I truly, I'm behind you 100%. Authenticity
is what makes us different. Now, I use AI to
write articles and things like that, but for
networking events, it's all me. And listen, if
you don't like me, then I can't help that. Because
there's a mantra, know you, like you, trust you,
do business with you. Now, everybody knows you.
Hey, look, you're a great guy. Like you, that
now is the field down just a little bit because
not everybody's going to like you. But trust
you, that's a deciding factor because, like I
said, nobody will buy from you unless they trust
you and they won't trust you unless you're authentic.
Absolutely. Okay, so let's go into the sales
training a little bit. How can networking itself
be one of the most powerful sales training tools
a business has? How can networking be a sales
training tool? I love that question. Pushing
out. Yeah. When you go to a networking event,
you are forced to present yourself in a certain
way. You have to know your business. You have
to understand how to communicate the value points
of your business, not just to the people in the
room, but you're selling through them. So you
have to be really spot on in, okay, this is why
people buy from me. This is who I am. This is
what I do. This is why I do what I do. You have
to build that authenticity and that trust. From
a sales perspective, that is... probably the
best sales training you could come up with for
a lot of people. Most people are put off from
sales training because they see the clips online
of 200 people in a room, and you've got somebody
standing at the front, and they're big, and they're
bold, and you've got to close this, and you've
got to close this, and I want to see 100 deals
in the pipeline by this point. That's not relevant
to most people. They're never going to be in
that position where they're needing to push a
hard sale, especially small business owners and
networking events. What they're looking for is,
how do I present my business well? Now, listen,
I'm a firm believer. I use the pandemic as a
mark in time. Before the pandemic, things were
very transactional. networking was very transactional.
I've got a widget to sell. Oh, I've got $3. I'll
trade you and you build up a customer list. But
after the pandemic, for about five years now,
networking is more relational, relationship.
And it's because I feel that networking is the
base of all businesses. And as you said, you
have to really know your stuff. You have to be
authentic. And you have to sell what you were
saying through the person. Because you're not
just selling to those people. You're selling
to their network of people. So you really better
be spot on to what you're selling and what you're
saying if you want that to happen. Yeah, you're
dead right there, Michael. The big thing about
going to a networking event, especially... things
like the Chamber of Commerce or other closed
networking events, you've got maybe 30 or 40
people in the room. So if you go with the mindset
of, I'm going to sell to you, I want you to be
my customers, you might get maybe 10, depending
on the service or product you're selling. But
if you go with the mindset of, I want to educate
these people so they can then go out and sell
my product on my behalf. then you've got a massive
network that you can sell to. Absolutely, absolutely.
And I can't emphasize this enough because when
you're in, let's say, a chamber meeting, because
that's where we met, you're not selling to those
people exactly. You're selling to their network
of people. So you always have to keep that in
mind. And I'll get into the follow -up and everything
later on. It is so important for you to keep
that in mind that, oh, I just don't want to sell
to Stephen. I want to sell to Stephen's network.
And that network isn't just their customers.
That network is their family and friends. It's
every relationship they've got. Absolutely. Listen,
I'm the networking guy, right? And I always say
you network wherever you go. If you're online
at the grocery store or if you're online in a
department store and somebody's talking about
something in your field or not, you can turn
around, give your two cents as long as it's intelligent.
You can give your two cents and turn back around.
And if you did your job correctly, they're going
to tap you on the shoulder and say, what do you
mean by that? Or. That's right. But what about
this? And that starts the conversation. All you
have to do is start the conversation. And if
you're worth your salt, then it will go far.
Here's a great example of how the networking
works or how well it can work. So I had lunch
with a chiropractor in my network yesterday.
And I had my hair cut today. And the lady cutting
my hair was talking about the fact that she just
had a car accident. and she needed to go and
see a chiropractor. And she was talking about
some issues she had previously with a chiropractor.
And I mentioned something that the chiropractor
I met yesterday said. And she went, oh, is that?
And I went, yes, it is. And she said, the third
person has mentioned that chiropractor. I'm going
to go see them. It's that word of mouth. Absolutely.
The power of networking is how you do it. And
you're not pushing yourself on the person. You're
not pushing whoever you're trying to refer on
the person. But you're just saying a few facts,
a few good logical facts, and let it go where
it goes. So that's the perfect way. And listen,
I am known throughout the area as being a connector.
I like to connect to people just like you just
did. I like to connect two people together. This
person does. This person is in need of it. And
I'm away. I pushed away. I said, okay, look,
I put you two together. Go have it. Go have at
it. And you know what? It's a really good feeling.
It's a really good feeling. Yeah. Okay. And then
you get back into the reciprocal side of that
in that you give and people will give back to
you. Absolutely. When you network, you have what's
called a servant's heart. You're givers gain.
So when you go to a networking event, you look
to help everybody else. And by you referring
somebody else, and again, this falls into the
follow -up and everything else, but it takes
all the pressure off of you. You enjoy yourself.
And you say, look, I put these two people together.
Okay, that's great. And eventually they're going
to refer you. Okay. In your experience, how does
knowing when to pivot your strategy or tactics
directly impact the quality of your network and
business success? Pivoting someone's business
or pivoting your own business is something that
is very scary for a lot of people to do. They've
gone into their business with an idea of, this
is what I'm going to do. This is how I'm going
to do it. This is why I'm doing it. And there's
a lot of people have an ethos of I'm going to
stick by my principles, which is fine. But in
business, you have to recognize when something
either isn't working or not necessarily isn't
working, but is something better going to work
faster for me? Am I putting my efforts into the
wrong channel? That's a great example. The difference
between working through a channel, which is networking,
when you think about it, channel sales, you're
asking other people to sell your business for
you, albeit they get a financial reward for it.
But it's still the same thing. You have to get
somebody else to sell your business or whether
direct sales is best or whether internet sales
is best. Is it better to, do you have a business
where picking up the phone and talking to people
is the right way to sell your business? You have
to, as a business owner or as a sales team manager,
be able to look at your business and go, I'm
going to make the change. I can make the change.
And if I can't make the change, but I want to
make the change, who do I bring in to help me
make the change? Who do I ask? How do I ask for
help? That, of course, involves a mentor or somebody
else that can coach you or something. Listen,
I mentor. certain people already, but I am always
being mentored. I'm always being coached by somebody
else. So I'm being coached by somebody else yet.
I am mentoring. I think it's six people right
now. I'm coaching six people. So you know what?
You never stop learning. You never stop changing.
You never stop trying to do it better because
there's always a better way. There's always a
better way. Every day is a school day. Every
day is a school day. I try to learn something
every single day. Every day that I don't, I feel
like, oh, I didn't learn anything today. It was
almost like a wasted day because I feel that
people tend to call me a networking expert. And
I hate that term, expert, because that means
that you've learned everything. And I haven't.
And I'm always learning. So, yeah, I've been
known as a networking guru, how to make sales
stronger, everything else. But I am always learning,
always picking up something new. Okay. What role
does trust play in both networking and sales?
And how do you recommend people earn it instead
of just asking for it? Trust is. The most important
aspect of sales, unless you're selling a commodity
where it is price, people are only going to buy
you from you if they trust you. And people will
only trust you, as you said previously, if they
know you. You have to be authentic in sales.
You have to put yourself out there. And in many
cases, you have to step across a boundary where
you feel fear, especially in networking. that
in in many cases in networking you have to stand
up in front of 40 50 people and say your piece
and you have to be confident enough to do that
so people will look at you and go yeah okay i
understand that i get that but you also have
to make mistakes and you have to be comfortable
making those mistakes you have to be comfortable
being uncomfortable as my tennis coach used to
say all the time that's the authenticity of it
And that's where if you're standing up there
and you're reading from a sheet of paper that
is clearly an AI elevator pitch, where's the
authenticity? Where's that trust going to be
developed? Because if you're standing there talking
that way and you're not showing who you are,
when it comes to your business, people are going
to look at the business and go, am I seeing exactly
what the business is? If I'm not seeing who the
person is, what's the business? What's the product?
Absolutely. And as you're talking, as you're
speaking, I'm just thinking about my mentor and
what she said that what make mistakes, own the
mistakes, make fun of the mistakes and then move
on. If you own the mistake and you move on, they
can't say anything except that they know that
you're human. Yeah, that's that's such an important
point. We all make mistakes. We all stutter over
words. We all say the wrong words. We all forget
a sheet of paper every now and again. Everybody
does it. If you're comfortable doing that and
you just accept that everybody does it and I've
done it again, that's the authenticity that people
are looking for. You buy from a human. You buy
from someone that's like you. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I couldn't have said it better. Okay. So. How
can professionals uncover the deeper motivations
of their buyers through networking conversations
rather than traditional sales pitches? That's
asking questions. Yes. As pure and simple as
that. Be curious. And if you don't treat your
network the people in your very close networking
group, as your customers. Treat them as peers.
Treat them as people you can ask questions to.
Hey, so I've got this new idea for a product.
What do you think? Do you know anybody that might
be interested in buying this? Why would that
be? Who do you think in your network wouldn't
buy this? Why do you think that would be? Ask
questions, be curious, be open. Absolutely. And
that was the best answer I can possibly think
of, because asking questions always is the right
idea. Anytime you want to get to know somebody
or whatever they're trying to sell or whether
they have, you are a problem solver. The only
way that you can get to the root of the problem
is to ask. questions about their problem once
you find out what their problem is then you can
solve it then you can solve it but those questions
very important i like to look at it so i have
a anybody that's had a sort of seven to ten year
old child think when they have a problem you
can't get to the root of that problem until you
ask questions and it's not a case of asking One
question and getting a straight answer. It's
the, what was school like? Fine. Okay. And then
you have to start drilling down. And that's a
great way of looking at, how do I ask questions
about my sales technique? How do I ask questions
about my product? How do I ask questions about
who I need to sell to, my customers? Think about
it like you're asking a child and you need to
pull that information from a child. That's a
very good way of thinking about it. I hadn't
thought about that until just now. And that is
a great way to think about how to pose your questions,
because the first question, you're not going
to get an answer. The second question, you're
not going to get an answer. You're not going
to get an answer or something around the answer
to the fifth, sixth or seventh question. So you're
literally pulling. the information out from them.
So yeah. So if you don't mind, I'm going to use
that from now on. Absolutely. Go for it. Okay.
What are the biggest mistakes businesses make
when it comes to networking for sales growth
and how can they avoid them? The biggest mistake
is selling to the room. Don't sell to the person
you're talking to. It's an immediate turnoff.
It's like opening the door. You open the front
door and there's someone standing there and they've
got a little bit of, they've got a t -shirt on
and it's so -and -so roofing or it's so -and
-so driveways or it's pressure washing. Your
heart just goes, and you immediately go on the
defensive. You're not, you feel you're being
sold to. And as a salesperson, it's completely
the wrong way of doing it. Absolutely, these
companies make money. There's no question about
that. But from a sales perspective in a networking
event, it's the last thing you want. What you're
going to start seeing if you go straight in with
that mindset of I'm going to sell to you is people
looking around straight away, looking for an
escape route. That's not the way to do it. Again,
that's not building trust. you're immediately
asking someone to put a wall up. Absolutely.
And one of the things that I say in my workshops,
my presentations, is people love to buy, but
they hate to be sold to. And you always have
to have that mentality when you talk with anybody.
I tell everybody, I say, look, when you just
meet somebody or you go to a networking event
or meeting with somebody one -on -one, it doesn't
make a difference. Never talk business the first
10 minutes. Never talk about anything. I use
something called F -O -R -M. Family, occupation,
recreation, and a message. Pick any one of the
above. Family, sister, brother, husband, wife,
son, daughter. It doesn't make a difference.
Youth sports, big one if they have children.
Listen, I was a baseball coach for 16 years.
I was an umpire for three more years. So you
want to talk about youth baseball? I'll talk
about till your ears fall off. But you're talking
about everything but business and what's happening.
Now, everybody has a wall in front of them. And
that wall is slowly coming down. And that trust
factor is going up. So the more they're talking,
because people love to talk about themselves.
They'll talk about themselves till they're blue
in the face. But you're talking to them, they
feel more comfortable with you when you can start
to sneak in those questions, but never come out
and start with it. Okay. How do you help professionals
shift their mindset from viewing sales as a transaction
to viewing it as a relationship? building process
this goes right along with what we're talking
about yeah that becomes a thing of longevity
a business that is going out to sell will sell
to a certain point but then what where do you
go from there you've got no long -term relationships
with people you're not selling through people
because you're selling transactionally you're
selling a commodity you're in a race to the bottom.
Because selling like that is always going to
come down to cost. And unless that's your business,
your mantra, if you like, is I'm going to be
the lowest common denominator, you're going to
run up against problems again and again. Explaining
to a business person, okay, this is great now.
Where are you going to be in three years if you
stick with that model? Where's the market going
to go? How big is the market? How do you expand?
How do you get other people to sell what you're
selling if you're at the lowest common denominator
and just selling transactionally? It's about
an education process of look to the future. That's
absolutely right. And listen, this all goes back
to what we've been talking about at the beginning,
the relationship building process. It's not transactional
anymore. It's relationship building. And really,
the more you can do that, the better. I used
to be in the mortgage industry and I used to
go to networking events because mortgage people
love networking events. I used to come home with
a shoebox filled with business cards and say,
look how good I did. When what? I didn't do well
at all. I did not. So now if I get 15 or 20 business
cards in a three -hour event. I'm fine because
I built that relationship with each of those
people. I would rather have three exceptionally
good conversations in a room full of 50 people
than come home with 20 business cards. Absolutely.
I'm behind you 100%. 100%. Okay. Can networking
itself reveal when it's time to pivot in business?
And if so... How does it happen? Yes, it can.
And it can because if you're listening and asking
the right questions in your networking event,
you're going to understand the market. Somebody
will mention, oh, so yeah, you do that. I know
a company that used to do that, but now they're
doing this. Great example of this. pressure washing
companies so pressure washing companies they
go out and they pressure wash the house and they
pressure wash the the driveway and they do all
these things seasonally all of a sudden you've
got an opportunity there because it's christmas
and what have you got you've got ladders And
you've got lots of ladders. And you've got crews
going around. And what are people looking to
do? They're looking to get up on their roof and
they're looking to put their lights up. Once
you see someone else talking about doing that
in a networking event, if you're a pressure washing
company, if you're a window cleaner, ah, okay,
now I get that. I can do that. And that's a really
simple pivot in a very short period of time.
That's not a permanent pivot, but it's a... definite
extra arrow to the bow or string to the bow absolutely
and that's a very good example by the way because
i can think of two pressure washing companies
now that just made that pivot so you're right
on target okay so let's bring this podcast full
circle and kind of talk looking into the future
a little bit looking ahead What skills or strategies
do you believe every business leader must adopt
to connect, sell, and stay profitable in a rapidly
changing market? They need to understand where
their market is going. Not look around and go,
what's the stock market doing? Not look around
and go, where's the economy going? You have to
be aware of those things. But your individual
market, who are you selling to? Who are your
customers? Why? And it comes back to why are
your customers buying from you? Are they buying?
And I love using the mantra, cure. Why are they
buying? C, convenience. Perhaps. U, uniqueness.
Are they buying that? Relationships or expense
or cost? If you can understand which one of those
your customers are buying, the reasoning they're
buying from you, then you're able to look at
your market better and understand why your customers
are or are not going to buy. You need to protect
yourself by understanding your market and your
business, not necessarily just the wider market.
Absolutely. And I just had a client. He said
that what he has to offer, five other people
are offering the same exact thing for just about
the same price. How can he be different? I said,
well, the difference is very simple. It's you.
You have to make yourself different. You have
to make yourself more accessible. Let me go back
a little bit, okay? When you're first meeting
these people on LinkedIn and they immediately
say, I've got this to sell and I've got this
to sell. Why is that a turnoff? Because there's
no relationship. So if you bring a little value
to that relationship, the first time, the second
time, the third time, That you made the connection
and you're bringing them value. Now you've just
made yourself above everybody else. So you have
created that relationship. So it was very good.
It's the standing up and saying, what makes you
different? I value my customers. Well, I talk
to my customers. That's not unique. Show me how
you're going to do that. And that's where the
value of networking comes in because you're able
to, as you do, join people together. You bring
something to the table and you give that to somebody,
then someone is more likely to give something
back to you. That's it. That's it in a nutshell.
Spoken, you said that very well. Stephen, I have
to tell you. This was a great podcast. And if
they wanted to get hold of you, have Sales Geek
come into their office and either have a fractional
sales director or not, or just talk to you about
being coached, how can they get hold of you?
Very simple. My email address is steve, S -T
-E -V -E, at salesgeekcsg .com. And my phone
number is 404 -989 - 7189. And I'll be happy
to talk to everybody about networking and sales.
That's great. Steve, thank you so much for coming
on the podcast. You're a great guest. Thank you,
Michael. I really appreciate it. It's great fun.
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you to our guests for sharing such incredible
insights today. And of course, a big shout out
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and spending your time with us. If you're interested
in my digital courses, being coached or having
me come and talk to your company, just go to
Michael and fill out the request form. Remember,
networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
being present. So take what you've learned today.
get out there, and make some meaningful connections.
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