Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
Connections, the show that takes the guesswork
out of building relationships that move the needle.
I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and today we're
stepping into the world of note investing, where
the right connections can mean the difference
between a dead deal and a career -defining win.
But today's conversation isn't just about real
estate paper and portfolios. It's about how to
network when you're really not naturally outgoing.
What do you do when you walk into a room full
of people and don't know a soul? How do you create
real relationships that drive results without
being salesy or loud? My guest today has a built
-in name. in the note investing space, not by
chasing every handshake, by mastering the power
of intentional, authentic networking. If you've
ever felt overwhelmed by networking events, unsure
of what to say, or just want to sharpen your
strategy, this episode is for you. I'd like to
welcome to the podcast, Nathan Turner, and he's
an expert in his field. And I don't want to say
more than that because I don't want to mess anything
up. Welcome to the podcast and just give us a
little bit about your background. Yeah. Thank
you so much for having me. This is great. And
as you're doing your intro there, I just think
back in my mind of all the different conferences.
We'll get into that. But anyway, we'll get into
that. So I've been a note investor for the last
15 years. And probably most people listening
to this have never heard of that. And that's
fine. I hadn't either. It's a relatively small
niche. What it means is I buy residential mortgages.
So I'm in the real estate world -ish. All of
the mortgages, of course, are backed by the real
estate. But I'm not actually buying the real
estate. I'm buying the loan attached to the real
estate. So I am in a way I'm concerned with the
real estate itself, but ultimately I'm just buying
the loan and I step into the role as the bank.
That's great. All right. And coming from, I have
a mortgage background, so I really, I know what
you're talking about and I can feel your pain,
but let's see if we get into that during these
questions. So let me start out by saying in the
world of note investing. What role has networking
played in getting deals, building partnerships,
or expanding your reputation? That is key. It's
hard to overstate how important that is. Because
it's such a small niche, it really, more than
any business that I've ever encountered, it is
so much about relationships. So it really matters,
A, who you know, and then B, who knows you. And
so that just makes such a huge difference. I've
been able to have deals come to me simply because
of the relationship where literally the person
on the phone says, hey, I'm giving you a call.
I know that this is something that you typically
look for. This is what you're looking at. These
are the last few in this portfolio that I'm trying
to clean out. I called you first because I know
that you're the guy that can get it done. And
we've done deals before in the past. So are you
interested in this? And I get really great pricing
and all these different things simply because
of the relationship, not because of anything
else, but relationship number one. Absolutely.
And today's day, listen, I base everything on
networking and the relationships that I've built.
you have to turn it around a little bit because
you don't, you can't not trying to establish
your network, trying to establish whose network
you are in. Well, that's if you look, yeah. If
you look at it from that point of view, because
anybody could expand their network, but you can,
you have to look at it and say, okay, whose network
am I a part of? And that's a whole different
way of looking at it. Yeah. Yeah. When you walk
into a room full of people, what's your personal
strategy and what's going through your mind?
It is shifted a little bit over time, recognizing
that this business is all about relationships.
I remember the first note conference I went to,
I totally overwhelmed. I don't know a soul. I
don't know anybody in the room, but I went in
with the goal of, I want to hand out 20 business
cards. And that was it. That was like the number.
I didn't want anything else. That was it. I want
to hand out 20 business cards. And for me, that's
a big deal. I'd rather, most people, we would
rather just not talk to anybody and stay in our
little corner. But that was me is I want to meet
people. I know that's a big part of this business.
So I'm going to hand out 20 business cards. Today,
that's shifted a little bit because now I have
become known in the industry. And so people often
will come up to me and talk. So now I'm looking
before I ever even go to the conference, almost
always. In fact, I will look at, see who's attending.
Is there somebody there that either I know that
I need to talk to, to be able to further whatever
business prospect or anything like that? Or B,
is it somebody that I don't know that I would
really like to know? Because I think that we
can do something as far as working together in
the future. So it shifted a little bit. Now I'm
much more strategic about it in the beginning.
Just anybody I just want to introduce myself.
That's actually a very good way of thinking about
it. So when you go to these networking events
and you look at who is going to be there, do
you touch them on, let's say, social media? Do
you reach out and say, hi, how you doing? I see
you're going to XYZ conference. So am I. I'd
love to meet up with you. Yeah, for sure. Either
on social media or the oftentimes the conference
will have whatever app they're using. So there's
a way that you can start those conversations
before. I highly recommend doing that because
that you can start that relationship before you
even set foot in the door. Yeah, absolutely.
And I ever since the pandemic. I feel that networking
is more relationships instead of transactional.
And with beforehand, I have three widgets. I
want to sell them for $2 and you want to buy
them. It's very transactional. And the more,
the merrier you're building a customer list.
Now you are building a relationship list and
that list is much smaller, but much more powerful,
much more. Totally agree. Yep. As someone who
identifies. as more introverted? And what are
your go -to moves to make strong connections
without burning out? Yeah. Like I say, I would
much rather just stay at home and watch a movie.
That's my idea of a good time most of the time.
But really for me, it comes down to just the
realization, this is how the business is done.
You have to get to know people. And I know that's
uncomfortable in there. But so when I go into
the room, For example, I'll walk in and it's
breakfast and they're serving something out there.
Oh, I would like nothing more than just to take
my pastry and then just retreat into some unknown
corner in the darkened room somewhere else. But
I purposely go up to either one other individual
or two or three even. And I force myself to just
be like, no, this is how it's done. You can do
this. 20 seconds of courage. Go. And I go up
and, hi, how are you guys doing? And the reality
is. I don't know that I've ever had it where
people say, ah, you're not welcome here. You
know what I mean? That doesn't actually happen.
People are more than happy to chat with you.
Yes, they are. And do you have a few icebreakers
that you can share with my audience? Like when
you walk up to the people, what do you say to
them? Generally, I'll walk up and I'll just say,
hey, simple stuff. Is this your first time here?
How do you know the organizer? What do you do
for work? Oftentimes, it's asking them about
themselves. That tends to, everybody likes to
give some kind of an introduction. If they don't,
maybe you don't want to talk to them anyway.
But any kind of just, you know, gosh, you can
even talk about the weather if you need to. And
be like, man, it's sure hot out there. Even that.
Anything to crack the ice. Except in Canada,
it doesn't get that hot. I always say, whenever
I go to a networking event, there's always somebody
staying next to the wall or staying apart from
everybody. And I always try to be the person
that walks up to them and breaks the ice. And
you don't start talking business. That's the
world's worst thing you can do. So when you walk
up to them, comment on their blazer. on their
shoes. I say, wow, that's a neat place. Or where'd
you get that from? Or those? Wow, I like those
shoes. Yeah, something to get them to start talking.
And when they start talking, obviously, the walls
come down. And yeah, where are you from? Yeah,
you know, anything just to keep them talking.
And then after a while that they're having a
good time. Now, I'm an extrovert. So it's easier
for me to do that than you or somebody else,
like an introvert. But that's always a good philosophy.
Okay, so can you share a time when a single connection
opened a major door for you in your note investing
career? Oh, absolutely. Gosh, if all else fails,
if you're going to a conference, there's going
to be vendors out there. Vendors literally paid.
to be there to talk to people. So at the very
least you can talk to them. I can't tell you
how many times, and I make sure I make a point
to talk to every vendor every time I go to anywhere,
because you never know. I can't tell you how
many times I've started a conversation. Oh, you
do what? Is that the service provider? Oh, interesting.
And that is literally something that I have been
looking for, something that I need. Anything
from somebody who's got deals for sale, somebody
who's got money that they're looking to place,
anything like that over and over again. It's
hard to even pick one specific one. Let me pick
one. So I met a gentleman, this was years ago,
and met him as we were going off to lunch. And
same kind of thing, just randomly. I just started
a conversation. Hey, where are you from? He had
an accent. So I asked him about that. He's Austrian.
We started chatting about this and that. Over
the course of getting to know each other and
everything else, he ended up investing a significant
amount of money with me. And we've been business
partners for many years since then. Very simple.
We started going to lunch and then all of a sudden
it turns into a whole lot of money that we're
both making now. It doesn't take a whole lot
for you to be nice, be nice, be open. Listen,
if you're getting a bad vibe, I do everything
with vibes. If you're getting a bad vibe, you
can cut that conversation short and go your separate
way. But more times than not, when you're speaking
with him and you say, look, I'm going to, you
want to join me? And that starts a whole conversation.
And you're right. You never know where it's going
to take you. You happen to be fortunate where
you've built a relationship with this guy and
you've made money. But even if it's just a friend
or somebody else you could talk to or something
else, it's always good to extend that hand or
extend that olive branch to go. Definitely. Yeah.
What would you tell someone who walks into a
room thinking? I don't belong here. I've certainly
done that. And recently, in fact, so last year
I was at a conference where they were talking
about it as a different kind of loan. It's called
a DSCR loan based on income of a property. And
it's not in my wheelhouse. It's not something
I typically do. I was actually asked to be a
moderator of one of the panels there. This is
not my world. So I definitely felt like a fish
out of water. But you know what? It's still,
it's related enough. And at the base level, we're
all humans. We're all people. We're all just
trying to make our way in the world. Base level.
We can talk about family. We can talk about kids.
We can talk about issues we're having with our
kids at school. Whatever it is, there's all kinds
of things that you can relate upon, no matter
what. So I understand feeling like you're the
fish out of water and you're way out of your
league or over your head or anything like that.
At the end of the day, they're just people just
like you. So at the very least, you can just
talk about people things. Absolutely. And I remember
something called F -O -R -M, family, occupation,
recreation, and a certain message that you can
get onto the same level as him because people
love to talk about themselves, about their family.
And I used to coach. baseball, 16 years, I was
three years as an umpire. So if I get them onto
that youth sports level, then I'm golden. And
they love to talk about their kids. And so they're
talking, talking, talking, talking. And so what's
happening is that that wall is coming down, that
trust level is going up. And then that opens
up a whole bunch of other things. But one thing
I always do is after I've built up that trust
value, And I turn it into their occupation because
I have to know what you do. I say, you know what?
I like you and I like the way you do business.
How can I make you more successful? How can I
be a good referral source for you? And you're
usually blown away by that. You say, Michael,
I don't even know what you do yet. And I said,
that's fine. You can go through the exchanging
of the business cards and the follow -up. I have
a whole separate. secret sauce for follow -up.
But to get you to that point, you're giving,
not getting. You always go to a networking event
where you think to give, what can I do for this
person? Not what can they do for me? It was called
the giver's game. Okay. So how do you follow
up after networking events in a way that feels
natural and build real relationships? It could
be a number of things. If it's somebody that
I really want to, something that maybe we've
identified that we can work together on, I'll
see if we can schedule a phone call. And a Zoom
call is great. I prefer that if we can make that
happen. But at the very least, it's an email.
And I'm careful about this because I see this
fall off so often, where you've met all these
people, you've got this pile of business cards
or whatever you've got, and then you never talk
to them again. man, what a shame you've just
made these connections and then it's just going
to nothing. So at the bare minimum, they get
an email just saying, Hey, it was great to meet
you. Let's see if we can do something together
in the future. Something related to the conversation.
What I do actually is on any, I prefer business
cards. I know a lot of people are going digital
these days. I still prefer the card because I
will take that card and then On the backside,
I'll write some notes about our conversation
or about who that person is or something like
that so that I have something to refer to later.
So when it's just like that digital beep, there's
no opportunity to put any kind of notes in there.
And so I definitely prefer the cards. But anyway,
I'm old school. No, that is perfect. And that's
one of the things that I teach is on the back
of the business card, I add just a few things.
I add today's date. the name of the function
and something you spoke about yeah and then i
have a whole series of emails from the first
night to the next morning to three days later
and so on so forth but the most important way
i'm just going to give this to you right yeah
if you meet somebody you really want to send
them an email and say thank you for meeting with
me the next morning send them a handwritten thank
you note Go out and buy. I have 50 of them in
my briefcase. A thank you card. I want to thank
you for meeting with me. Had a great time. We
spoke about XYZ. Nathan. And put your business
card in it and send it off. Because think about
what they are thinking. In three days, because
that's what I figured the mail's going to take,
right? In three days, they're going to receive
this note card from you. as a thank you open
it up and it's not a bill it's not an invoice
it's not anything else it's just a thank you
it's handwritten it's personalized so they it
just took you from here to here yeah yeah not
even trying so that's yep just put a little little
notation down and if you start doing that every
one of my clients Every single one of them, I
have them do that in their follow -up technique.
I have a stack of thank you cards because they
make them all send me one. Okay. And I have a
stack like this big. Yeah. And I want you to
write me a thank you card the same way as you
would write one of your clients. Yeah. And the
next week we would discuss it. So that's a little
thing. Yeah. Yep. I have a whole secret sauce
on. Follow up from the very first one to the
last one, giving them an out, not giving them
an out and everything, but that's a whole different
thing. Okay. So how do you balance networking
for opportunity with networking for authenticity?
And are they the same in your view? Ooh, great
question. I have adopted the mindset that opportunities
everywhere. And so I would rather. Create a relationship
first. And if an opportunity comes, great. And
again, so often it comes out of somewhere I never
would have thought of. So here's an example.
So I met somebody, this was before I even started
in real estate. We had a Curves franchise. So
it was a gym for women. Met somebody who said
that they had cleaning products that they could
offer that we could use at our gym. I said, great,
let's have a meeting. We'll set it up and we'll
talk. In the course of the conversation, she
was pitching me on Melaleuca. It was a multi
-level marketing thing. Yeah, which is great.
I didn't have any interest in that. My father
-in -law already did that. So if I was going
to join, it was going to be under him. But in
the course of that conversation, she said something
about real estate being really hot in Saskatoon,
Saskatchewan. And if you don't know where that
is or you don't know how to say it, that's fine.
Most people don't. And I thought, really? Because
my dad was born there. I'd been there. And it's
a small city, barely a city. And it's in the
middle of the prairies, nothing around it. Really?
Saskatoon? You're sure? So actually, it intrigued
me. So I locked that away. And that was it. She
just had that one line. And I thought, really?
Huh. And it was later that I had the thought
to call a friend who lived out in Saskatoon and
said, hey, so tell me about real estate. And
he's like, you mean Saskaboom. And I'm like,
you're kidding me. And this is back 05, 06. And
sure enough, things were going nuts there. That
started me on real estate. So this meeting that
we're having about cleaning products that ended
up being a Melaleuca pitch on something completely
different that had nothing to do with real estate
whatsoever. But one line. set me on a path that
has now served me for the last 20 years. And
all because of a conversation I was willing to
have with somebody, just building a relationship,
not looking for an opportunity, but ended up
happening. You know, that should show you something
that first of all, you never know where it's
going to come from, but your mind, your mindset
was open to. any and all opportunities that are
out there. So if you weren't, if you didn't have
that mindset, you wouldn't have picked up on
that. You would have just gone ahead and said,
oh, this is another Melaleuca thing. And thank
you, but no, thank you. But I was a Melaleuca
agent myself. Unless your mind was open to it,
you would have gone right past it. But it's because
you've changed and your mindset was open. You
said, oh, okay, let me. Check on that. You checked
on that. And of course it set your path. So it
was a very good thing you listened. Yeah. Okay.
What's, I love this question. What's the biggest
networking mistake you've made or seen others
make in this industry? Ah, interesting. No, that's
a great question. I think that probably the biggest
mistake I would say is that As much as we're
all looking to expand, we're all looking to see
what comes next and all that. I think that if
it's all about, if it feels like you're after
something, then it's disingenuous and it doesn't
work and it repels people in a way. And so I
think that's a big one is hitting so hard with
trying to pursue whatever opportunity that you
have in your mind. I think that can really. have
people stand off and put their guard up and say,
eh, not that guy. I'm not so sure. I think that's
a big one. Yeah. Let's bring us back to the beginning
of the podcast where we said a giver's game,
where you should think to give before you get.
And the biggest mistake, now I was in a mortgage
for 12 years. I made all the mistakes that you
had to make. I learned by the school of hard
knocks. I learned what not to do because I did
them. And the first thing that I did whenever
I went to a networking event was I opened my
mouth. I started to talk and I started to see
how many people I could get in front of for me
to tell what I'm doing and what I can get from
them. And that is 100 % the wrong thing to do.
Yeah. The first thing you do is shut up. You
don't say a word. You listen and you see what
you can do to give. And that takes all the pressure
off your shoulders, all the pressure. And all
of a sudden you realize that if you do that enough,
what goes around comes around and you'll get
your opportunity. Definitely. Yeah. So, you know,
listen, as long as you have the right mindset,
it will happen. It will definitely happen. Yeah.
Okay. So. What are one to two questions you use
to spark meaningful conversations quickly with
someone you just met? One that I like is, so
tell me about yourself. That's a very super open
-ended and they can take it wherever they want.
If they want to start talking about, I was born
here on a stormy night, that's great. But if
they want to start going into business right
away, sure. But tell me about yourself. I like
that one a lot because it's just really open
-ended and people can take it wherever they want.
You can actually see where their head is at because
if they immediately start talking business, they
don't have that giver's gain attitude. They don't
have to see what they can do for somebody else.
They're all about themselves. So that helps you
take a look at them saying, okay, I don't want
to do business with them. Or whatever the case
may be. But that's probably a very good question
just to see where they go. Yeah. So it's very
good. Okay. So let's bring this podcast full
circle. Yeah. For the introverts listening who
feel drained by traditional networking, what's
your version of doing it on your terms? On my
terms? For me, it's about the goal setting and
it's just get out there and meet people. And
maybe try, as much as you're trying to accomplish
a certain set of goals or something like that,
or if you're trying to have a certain kind of
conversation, I think let go of that and just
relax, talk to people. And as you talk to people,
you'll find the right ones and the conversations
will come around to whatever it is you're trying
to talk about or you'd like to talk about, but
just talk to people. Don't try to talk to prospects.
Don't try to talk to targets or something like
that. Talk to people. And then all that comes
back to you. You're absolutely right. Absolutely
100 % correct. Because you always have to, like
I said, take it from the other person's perspective.
Listen, either their kids got sick in the morning,
they had to do something at school, or their
brains could be somewhere else. You don't know,
but you have to ease into that. and make them,
it's the same as talking on Zoom. They say, oh,
Zoom, you can talk to anybody. You know what?
I have to think Nathan is a person behind the
camera and you have a thousand other things going
on except for doing this dopey podcast, right?
So you can do anything, but I have to remember
that you are a person. If you're meeting a, if
you're interviewing somebody or something, you
have to turn that camera around and say, wait
a minute. That's a person. Let me see what they're
all about. Yeah. Nathan, I can probably go on
for two more hours just speaking to you about
all of this because we seem to be on the same
page with 99 % of it. I would venture to say
100 % of it, but that's going a little bit too
much. If somebody wants to get hold of you, either
for the note investing or just to talk to you
or ask you a question, what's the best way to
get hold of you? Best thing to do is go to my
website, earnestinvesting .com. There's the contact
me thing there. That's really the simplest way
is just to get that going and then send me a
message. And like you said, I'm more than happy
to talk to people about business, about life,
whatever. I'm not too complicated. I make a concerted
effort to be simple. So if you want to just talk
about simple things, great. If you just want
to meet, awesome. If you want to talk more about
business things, fantastic. We'll do that too.
Outstanding. Nathan, this was a wonderful podcast.
I thank you for coming on and I hope to talk
to you soon. Hey, thank you so much. Well, hold
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