Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
Connections, the podcast where we explore the
art and science of building powerful relationships
that drive real business results. I'm your host,
Michael, and today we're diving deep into the
intersection of networking, motivation, and communication,
especially as we relate to immigrant experience.
Our guest is a dynamic expert whose journey spans
overcoming barriers, motivating others and mastering
the nuances of cross -cultural communication.
Whether you're new to networking or a seasoned
pro, you'll discover actionable insights to foster
authentic connections and unlock new opportunities.
So get ready to be inspired. as we uncover practical
strategies for building networks that are not
just expansive, but truly profitable and meaningful.
So let's get started. I'd like to introduce Andy
Semichuk. Semichuk, okay. I'm almost there, almost
there. No problem. He does have this vast background,
but Andy, I would like to introduce you and tell
us a little bit about your background. Sure.
Well, I was born in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada,
and raised half in Canada and half in the United
States. For example, school -wise, I was going
initially in Canada, but later in high school,
I went to school in Los Angeles. And that's because
My mother had a sister who lived in Los Angeles,
and they bicycled me back and forth. So, for
example, summers I spent in Los Angeles, but
during the school year, I spent up in Edmonton
in the cold. And then as time went on, as it
turned out, my whole life was like that. Half
of my time was in Canada and half of my time
in the United States. So, for example, although
I studied in Canada at UBC in Vancouver, got
my law degree and so on, I actually practiced
for 10 years in Los Angeles. I practiced for
five years in New York. And I am now practicing
in Toronto in Ontario, Canada. Wow, that's great.
That's quite an expansive background you have
there. So that's good. All right. So I'm going
to jump right into the questions that I've developed
for you. And hopefully we've made the mark. We've
hit the mark. What role has networking played?
in your own journey as an immigrant, and how
did it shape your success? That's a great question,
and you don't even realize how good a question
that is, I think, and I'll tell you why. For
three years, when I was in Los Angeles, I was
chairperson of the Beverly Hills Bar Association
Networking Committee. And during those three
years, we had monthly meetings where I had to
get things going and get people networking. And
I had a philosophy that I espoused during those
meetings. And the meetings went like this. After
everybody got settled, they picked up some drinks
or whatever and spoke to some people. I would
call the meeting to order. And we're all standing
around. And I would say I'm Andy Semichuk, and
I'm chairman of the Beverly Hills Bar Association
Networking Committee, and I want to welcome you.
And I'd like to express a philosophy of networking
that I'm hoping you will like and perhaps adapt
in your networking efforts. And that philosophy
comes from one of the great speakers in the United
States, a guy named Zig Ziglar. Absolutely. You
probably know him, yeah? Yes, I do. I follow
him extensively. Okay. So he used to say, you
can get anything in life that you want so long
as you help enough other people get what they
want. And I believe that's a great philosophical
approach to networking. And I would say to the
people there, focus on the people you're dealing
with. See if there's anything you can do to help
them and see how that in turn comes around to
help you. And I'd often share a story or a joke
just to liven things up and then set them loose
to doing the networking. But there were a few
things about networking that I sort of picked
up. And I was an immigrant there because I was
born in Canada. That's why it's special that
you asked that question. So as an quote unquote
immigrant to the United States, I myself had
to employ my networking skills to make a go of
me as a U .S. immigration attorney in Los Angeles.
And here are some of the tactics that I employed
to advance my cause. I learned that All of this
stuff, it's hard to come up with a unique idea
or original idea. A lot of our ideas are borrowed
from other people or developed from other people's
ideas. Certainly that's the case with me. I can't
claim originality to everything I'm talking about.
That's mission impossible for me. But one of
the thoughts that did me well. in my networking
efforts. And I'm so glad that your program is
about networking. It's a real treat for me to
be on your program and talk about networking
and also about motivation that we'll talk about,
I'm sure. A few little tips. Number one, I learned
long ago that in terms of networking, it's very
handy if you're a newcomer to come early to meetings.
Vince Lombardi, the great coach of the Green
Bay Packers, used to say, if you're 10 minutes
early, that means you're 15 minutes late to his
players. What he was saying was, of course, come
early. Don't come just on time. Come early. It's
always helpful to come early. And in networking,
that's especially true because if you're early
as people come into the room, They have nobody
to really deal with except you. If you're standing
there smiling and looking to say something. That's
true. I'm a military guy, Air Force. And we had
one saying that if you're on time, you're late.
If you're early, you're on time. Yeah, that's
great. Love it. I live my life that way. My poor
children who had to grow up with that, now they're
doing it. So I know exactly what you're talking
about. Zig Ziglar was the best. And that's what's
called a servant's heart. Now, I follow more
of Zig Ziglar's son because Zig isn't around
anymore. But it's a giver's game. It's what BNI
has structured their whole thing about. But it's
true because when you go to a networking event,
it's... what you can do for somebody else, not
what they can do for you. I didn't mean to interrupt.
No, I'm happy you threw that in. That's exactly
right. That's gold level thinking in my world.
But that was one key because they'd show up and
they don't have anybody to talk to. So they wander
over to talk to you and you then start on a journey
with them. And my approach was like this, and
I teach my young people here in my law practice
this approach. If you're talking to someone in
networking or just talking to someone in a cocktail
type situation, your job is to focus on that
person and never mind what else is going on in
the room. Never mind if President Trump just
is walking by behind the person you're talking
to or any football star or baseball star or whatever.
It's important to train yourself on the person
you're talking to. Everything else is irrelevant.
That's the whole idea here. It's inconsiderate
to use another person you're dealing with. You
see these guys, they're talking to you, but they
watch as someone goes by. You know how you feel
when that happens. Absolutely. It's called active
listening. So you listen to the person who you're
with. You give them 100 % of your attention.
And here's the funny part about active listening.
It's after they finish speaking, you pause. And
that's such an important pause because it gives
you time to digest what they said. It gives them
time to say he was listening to me. And then
you respond to him with something that he spoke
about. So you don't want to talk about something
that you have on your agenda because that really
doesn't matter. You want to respond to something
that. he was talking about because it shows that
you were paying 100 % attention. So active listening.
Yes. Very insightful. I have a lot of these.
Okay. Let me go with the second question. Sure.
What unique challenges do immigrants face when
building professional connections and how can
they overcome it? A big challenge is cultural.
You're coming into a new society, obviously a
society different than the one you're used to.
And a big deal about that is language, learning
the language of the new society. Now, in my life,
like I speak a few languages, I'm Ukrainian in
background, so I learned Ukrainian growing up
and stuff like that. And I've been able to pick
up a little bit on the Slavic element. I've also
studied Spanish and French, and it's been hard,
a hard goal. And so I'm thinking from the point
of view of someone new who's trying to learn
English, what can I do to offer them some help
in picking up the language? And one of the big
things that I learned in studying other languages
was about cognates. I don't know if you know
the word cognated. I didn't know the word when
I first heard it. And it's words that are the
same in other languages. So, for example, transportation,
the word transportation or communication in French
or in Spanish, transportation in Ukrainian, they're
all the same. It's a cognate. Because languages
are a mixture of various languages. Over time,
they're influenced by each other. Communication,
transportation, pretty much all words ending
in T -I -O -N are such cognates. And other words,
and I can't give you examples because I wasn't
expecting to talk on this exact topic right now,
but I looked it up. And as much as perhaps 30
or 40 % of a new language for you may consist
of words you already know because they're cognates.
And if you go through a dictionary, you can pick
up those cognates. And it's astounding that you
may know 30 or 40 % of a language even before
you started. What a gift, what a boost that is.
A great thing. For you, just because I know two
languages, English and English. My two languages.
I took Spanish in school and I can understand
somewhat. But that's very interesting that those...
Cognates, you're talking? Cognates. That's the
word for it. Very interesting. Yeah. Now, in
picking up languages, other things, and why am
I focused on language? Because I would say language.
is the critical element to integrate into a new
community. And if you don't focus on it and get
it down hard, you're going to be behind in terms
of getting ahead in that community. A lot of
my clients, English is a second language. And
the first thing that I go over with them is that
they have to enunciate. their words because they're
either saying them too fast or they're putting
the words together. So when I help them with
their diction, when they're enunciating, it slows
them down and people can actually understand
them that much better. So it all has to do with
the language. Good tip. Now, there's a lot we
could talk about language. For example, I just
share a little insight from my uncle who's passed
away. But during World War II, he was a translator.
He knew 13 languages. But he didn't know English.
And when the war ended, he was in Vienna. And
he thought, gee, the American zone, I got to
learn English. And what he did is he bought a
German -English dictionary. He knew German. And
he... He had a photographic memory, so he read
the whole dictionary. And then what he did is
he listened to Allied Radio Army broadcasts on
the hour of the news. And they repeated the news
every hour on the hour. And he read newspapers
and underlined words he didn't understand, looked
them up in the dictionary, and kept just word
by word, sentence by sentence, Sound by sound,
he picked up English within, he said something
like six months. And he reported to the general,
to the chief general, American general. He comes
up to him, somehow he got in there, and he says,
I'm reporting for duty. And the general says,
duty? What kind of duty? He says, translator.
I don't need a translator. What languages do
you speak? He said, what language do you want?
He spoke 13 of them. The American general goes,
Russian. French or whatever it was through 13.
Because, okay, report over to so -and -so. You're
hired. That's great. That's great. Yeah. Okay.
So let's go on to another question. Sure. Can
you share a story where networking directly impacted
an opportunity or breakthrough in your career?
That's a tough one for me, but I've already mentioned
it. I became chairman of the Beverly Hills Bar
Association. networking committee because I used
the skills we talked about earlier to rise to
that level. And that opened the door to me to
a whole community of lawyers, at least, who wanted
to get to know me because of my position. And
so it made it easy for me to, as an immigrant,
as we were talking earlier, integrate into that
community. And through that community, I was
able to reach out to other communities and become
involved, entrenched in other. I was in the Century
City area of Hollywood, which is where they used
to meet. And I got to know a lot of people in
that area. I used to go, there's nothing like
attending meetings to get to know people. And
if you have networking skills, you're automatically
like, they had a thing called speed dating, networking,
networking stuff. Sure. I know. Sure. Absolutely.
I know it all too well. Okay. We had those sessions
where you had whatever, three or five minutes
with someone and then each. telling each other
what you do, and then go on to the next chair
and talk to another person and so on. And over
time, you develop a nice string of people that
are friendly and start socializing and so on.
So it helped me break into American society.
And what society? The Beverly Hills Bar Association
and Hollywood and Century City, which was really
valuable to me. Which was, I'm sure, which was...
And the fact that you were trying to integrate
yourself with everybody else, it was just an
easier way. And by you knowing all of what you
know, networking wise and communication wise,
made it that much easier. Okay. So how do you
stay motivated to keep building and nurturing
your network, especially through tough transactions
or setbacks? Okay. Here we're touching on a key
area of focus, and it's what I call your unique
ability. And I'll share it with you in this way.
There's a good story that kind of focuses on
the area. It's the story of Carl Wallenda, who
was one of the world's leading tightrope walkers.
I know him well. Ah, okay. So you may probably
know that he tried to walk a tightrope between
two high -rises in San Juan, Puerto Rico, I think
in the 1980s, and fell to his death. Fell to
his death. But before he died, he was interviewed
by reporters, and they asked him, why do you
walk the tightrope? Why do you take such risks
with your life? And he answered this in this
way. He said, I live my life on the tightrope.
That's when I really live. And everything before
is a mere prelude to, and everything after is
a postscript following my life on the tightrope.
And that's now. What he was saying is, it's so
important to me. I'm willing to even risk death
to do this. And from reading about other people,
for example, Elvis Presley, he felt really alive
only on the stage when he performed in front
of audiences. There's a tennis player, I think
his name was Roger Ash. who used to talk about
flow, that there was a state that he would get
into, and all these sports personalities, they
all talk about flow, where they're just in a
moment when everything else doesn't matter. They're
just in their unique abilities, what I call unique
ability. So the key is, what is your unique ability?
And if you can find it, can you find activity
and work in that area and the reason why that's
so significant is because if you're working in
your area of unique ability you're at your best
it's where your passion is you're giving the
world the best you have and the world senses
that And it responds to you. Now, a good story
about that is, if you look over my shoulder,
you'll see a tab up there. It's from Toastmasters,
some organization you probably know a lot about.
Sure do. So I was in Toastmasters for 35 years.
And I attended club meetings for 35 years, weekly
club meetings, where we practiced public speaking
and leadership skills for 35 years. And I thought,
this is my unique ability. This is where I am
the best. But the world didn't want me there.
No, they said, Andy, you don't belong there.
The world said, we want you to write articles,
journal, books. And so the world guided me to
where I needed to be. It helped me find my unique
ability. Now, my unique ability, I believe, is
in the area of communication, so verbal and written.
But it's just an indication of how you get to
your unique ability. Absolutely. Very good. Very
well said, by the way. Thank you. Okay. What
communication strategies have proven most effective
for you when connecting with people from diverse
backgrounds? Okay. I'm a big believer in stories,
sharing stories, especially, for example, with
people who are disadvantaged or young people,
especially childhood memories, for example. We
are all vulnerable to strong stories. I'm just
reminded of an event that just took place last
night where I was at a funeral celebration. And
I talked about... I shared this story. There's
this group of people called Lemkos who live in
the mountains in western Ukraine, in the Carpathian
Mountains. And they had a belief. And the belief
was that when a person is born, a star appears
in the sky. And when they pass on, when they
cross, the footstep into eternity, the star disappears
from the sky. And that's just a little example
of a story that's captivating. It goes deep.
There's a symbolic part to it, and there's something
about the human experience in that story that
makes it compelling. You know, where I'm concerned,
at least for public speaking, corporate speaking,
workshops, stories, people tend to remember stories.
If I told them what to do out of a textbook,
one through 10, and I told them a story with
the same information, they'll remember 80 % of
it more through the story than if I just gave
them the text. So stories sell. Not only that,
there's one other. aspect of this. I'm a big
believer in humor. I think comedy goes a long
way. That's me. Okay. Especially when you're
trying to connect with an audience, the connection,
an emotional connection through humor. If you
can pass on some humor, maybe I can give you
an example. Say, for example, this lady buys
a parrot. And she brings him home. And she thinks,
I'm going to teach this parrot how to talk. I
wonder, what could I teach him? And she's got
people coming in and out of her house. So she
figures, when they knock on the door, I'll have
the parrot say, who is it? So she taught the
parrot to say, who is it? So now the parrot knows
how to say, who is it? And she goes shopping
one day and leaves the parrot back home. And
someone comes to the door. A guy knocks on the
door. Parrot says, who is it? The guy answers,
it's the plumber. And the parrot says, who is
it? The guy says, it's the plumber. Parrot says,
who is it? And the guy says, it's the plumber.
And the guy gets so exasperated, he faints and
falls down on the steps. Meanwhile, the woman
comes home and she opens the door and she sees
this plumber, this guy lying on the ground. And
she says, oh my goodness, I wonder who is it?
And the parrot says. It's the blommer. Blommer.
There's a joke like that can break the ice when
you're trying to. Yeah, I always inject humor
into every presentation that I give. And it usually
just I use it more to have them pay attention
to what I'm saying, as opposed to breaking up,
because usually I have a good connection with
the audience. But. When I throw humor in there,
it's always just that much more. They connect
with you that much more. Okay, so how can professionals
ensure their networking is mutually beneficial
rather than transactional? I guess the key answer
there from my point of view is what's in your
head? Why are you connecting with someone? And
I'll tell a little story about that that will
make the point. I had a close friend. His name
was John Kolaski in Canada. And he was a unique
individual because for 30 years, he was a member
of the Communist Party of Canada. And it was
a devout communist. And then one day in the 1970s,
he was invited to the Soviet Union, to the upper
higher. party school, and he went there for two
years. And when he was there, he realized, oh,
this is all garbage. I've been living a life
of garbage for 30 years. And he came back. It
was a traumatic experience for him. But he came
back, and he reconciled himself with democracy
and a more liberal kind of a point of view. One
day, I'm in the library studying at UBC in Vancouver,
and he was in Vancouver also. He was an author.
He wrote books, and I saw him coming. And I look
up, and I see him coming, and I think, I'm in
for a workout here, because he'd always lecture
me. And he says to me, Andy, and I think, how
am I going to answer this question? He says,
does the end justify the means? And I'm thinking,
I don't know the answer. Yes? He says, no. No,
Andy. Because every means, especially with people,
is an end to itself. Never use people for another
end. You can work with people, and if they consent
to work with you, work with them to achieve another
end. But never consider people a means to an
end you have. And I think that's the key to when
you're talking, communicating with people, the
way to deal with it. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I also feel that when you're beginning that communication,
you're looking to bring value to the conversation.
You're looking to bring value because if I, instead
of it being transactional, before the pandemic,
everything was transactional. After the pandemic,
we've become more relationship oriented. And
if I'm reaching out to you, I'm not going to
reach out to you and say, oh, by the way, I have
three widgets for a dollar. Would you like to
buy them? I'm reaching out to you and I may cut
an article out and say. I saw this article, would
you be interested? So on and so forth. So I try
to bring value to the conversation three, four,
five times, and then I'll slowly hit you with
my services. So that's a different way. How can
professionals ensure their networking is mute?
Wait a second. I just asked you that. Okay. Are
there specific tools or platforms that immigrants
or newcomers should leverage to accelerate their
integration into new professional communities?
Wow. I mentioned Toastmasters. I think that's
an excellent organization to join to practice
your speaking skills and learn leadership skills.
I wasn't a member for a while. Yeah, there you
go. And if you get good enough, you could join
the National Speakers Association. So, for example,
I see your speaker. Oh, you are. Okay, so that's
definitely a place to hang out from your point
of view if you're working in your area. Professional
associations are also very handy. In my area,
the American Immigration Lawyers Association,
for example, is an organization I belong to.
I think you've got to do things like that. All
the service clubs, like Rotary. Kiwanis, optimists,
and so on. I think they're great places to belong
and to find meaningful activities, share experiences
with the members. I've attended many Rotary meetings
and so on, and I got a lot of value from Rotary.
So those would be some of the areas that I would
recommend. Of course, going to school and college
and so on never hurts. And the more skills you
can learn, the better. Yeah, I've... spoken to
a great many rotaries, Lions Clubs, things like
that, business associations, because I feel that
they get the most out of what I have to say about
networking, communication, everything else. Everything
for me, networking is the baseline for every
business. And you work up from there. Okay, so
what advice would you give to someone who feels
intimidated or unsure about reaching out to established
professionals? I know in my case, I welcome if
someone reaches out and asks, say, listen, I'm
having a hardship. Would you be willing to spend
a little time with me to see how I can get over
this hardship or how can I become a lawyer or
what am I missing or whatever as an immigrant?
I think most people, especially accomplished
people who are not egocentric, and I think most
people, a lot of people, see the world as something
bigger than just themselves. And such people
are more than willing if you just reach out and
ask for guidance or to consult with them. So
I would recommend that, no matter how high up.
you think they are in the world and how low you
feel. But here's a little tip that I got from
a friend of mine, Wally Patrician, who was a
lawyer. He's passed on now, but he shared this
tip with me, which is when he was practicing
law and he didn't know what to do and got into
an area, had no idea what to do about. He looked
up in the directory, who are some of the top
lawyers, attorneys in the field? He would call
up the office and he'd book an appointment for
a consultation and pay $400 or $500 more, $1
,000 for an hour. And he'd go and see them and
say, look, I'm a young lawyer. I'm just starting.
I need to learn how to do mergers and acquisitions.
You're the star in the area. Can you share with
me what I need to know so that I can learn this
field? And they would open up to him and help
him. enormously, way over the whatever amount
he paid. But it was a very clever way to do networking.
Money's hard. People don't want to give money
up. That's always the most difficult thing. I
know about when I first started speaking, I reached
out to a very well -known, highly respected speaker
within the country. Everybody's always trying
to get him and everything else. I reached out
to him through LinkedIn, through an email. And
I just, look, I'm going to give it a shot. If
he answers me, that's wonderful. If not, I understand.
And I reached out to him. I asked him two questions.
And I think within an hour, he responded through
his cell phone. But he responded. And I was like,
little old me? He reached out to me? But yeah,
because every time they're at it. It's not a
big ask. They're willing to help you and extend
their, I'll say their greatness, but it's amazing.
All you have to do is ask. Never be afraid to
ask. Yeah. Okay. So how do you measure the profitability
of a connection? What makes a networking relationship
truly valuable? I'll tell you from my practice,
and I've been practicing for many decades. I
learned that when I focus on the money, nothing
seems to go right. When I focus on the person
and the problem, the money takes care of itself.
In fact, it's even better if I do that than if
I focus on the money. I'll make more money focusing
on the person and the problem. now i know there's
a school of thought how much should i earn this
year set a target and work towards it i don't
know i'm not saying you shouldn't do that it's
probably helpful but in my own experience the
way i got ahead in life and the friendships and
the colleagues that I made in my life, I made
most of my advances and what I am thankful for
because of the focus on the idea, the ideals,
the person, the connection to the person, and
like you said earlier, providing value in relationships.
That's where I found the most reward came from.
And not every reward is economic. Look, I had
clients who'd come in and they couldn't afford
to pay me. They're immigrants. So they'd bring
me a jar of pickles or a dead chicken for dinner.
I'd bring it home to my wife. She'd say, what
are we going to do with this? Eat it. Go get
it and eat it. There's all kinds of stuff like
that. But it's memorable. It is. Yeah. I'm known
in... this area as being a connector. I see two
people that are in need of each other's services
and they did not know of one another. I'm going
to introduce them and then back away. I'm going
to say, Andy, this is Michael. Michael, this
is Andy. This is what Michael does. This is what
Andy does. I think you can use one another. Have
at it. I step away and I let them. Now, they
usually include me on their email chains, so
I know what's going on, but it's not necessary.
And I try to do that once a week. So I've been
doing it for two years now. So every week I put
two people together and whatever comes out of
it, it comes out. And that way that I feel I've
done something. Yeah, yeah. Good work. Okay,
now let's bring this podcast full circle. For
women and minorities navigating new environments,
what empowering mindset or habit has helped you
overcome barriers to build an authentic relationship?
Okay, I'm going to talk about motivation here.
And this is a topic dear to me. and it's dear
to me because i learned about it from one of
the great speakers in toastmasters many years
ago when i was in toastmasters i came up with
an idea i learned that toastmasters each year
had what they called a golden gavel speaker that
would come to their convention and give them
a talk about their life and they would award
him the gold or her the golden gavel for the
year So I wrote to Toastmasters magazine and
I said to them, hey, listen, I'm a Toastmaster.
I would be interested in hearing these Golden
Gavel recordings and writing about them for Toastmasters
magazines. And they sent me a whole bunch, a
collection of these speeches. And among the speeches,
there was a guy who won the Golden Gavel way
back, probably about 40 years ago, maybe 30 years
ago, whatever. And he talked about motivation.
And I was really impressed. I really took it
to heart. And he talked this way. His name was
Bob Richards, a Golden Gobble winner. And he
said, in the course of this talk, he said, when
I was a small kid, I lived in a town and we had
a baseball team. And the best baseball player
on the team was a guy named Lou Boudreau. And
everybody, all the kids like me when I was a
kid, this is Bill, Bob Richards talking, admired
Lou Boudreau. The sun set, rose and set on Lou
Boudreau. And one day, Richards went to the baseball
field and was in the stadium. in the far end
of the stadium when Lou Boudreau hit a home run.
And Richards caught the home run. And he was
just ecstatic. He ran to the players' change
area, waiting for the players to come out, so
he could get the autograph of Lou Boudreau on
the baseball. And he was standing there. Lou
Boudreau came out. And he was going down the
line. And he came to Richards. He says to Richards,
and what's your name? And Richards said, Bobby.
Bobby Richards. And Lou says to Bobby, oh, and
what are you going to be when you grow up? And
Richards, I think he said, I'm going to be a
great baseball player. And Boudreau said, oh,
that's great, Bobby. I can see it. One day you're
going to be great. really great. And he took
the ball and he signed Luke Woodrow. And Richards
in this speech said, you can't imagine how motivating
it was to hear some encouragement from a person
like him who was so big in my life, such an idol
for me in my life. And then he went on to talk
a little bit more about motivation. And this
is what he said. Back then, when he was speaking,
America was in the skids, you know, economically
in trouble. And a newspaper decided to canvas
some of the leading economists in America, asking,
what does America need right at this moment to
get out of the economic malaise? And three economists
all answered the same thing. They said, what's
needed is motivation. And then Richards said,
this is how I define motivation. He says, motivation
is painting a picture of the life of the person
you're dealing with that's bigger than the image
that he or she has for themselves at that moment.
And the moment of motivation, is when that person
clutches onto that bigger image for themselves
and adopts it in their life. And I thought, wow,
that to me explains everything. Yes, it does.
Yes, it does. Andy, I got to tell you, I'm out
of questions, but I can probably talk to you
for another two hours. Time is limiting. If anybody
wanted to get hold of you for a discussion, for
some consulting, to hire you, whatever the case
may be, what's the best way for them to get hold
of you? Okay. I work with a group called Pace
Law Firm, P -A -C -E Law Firm. And our website
is pacelawfirm .com. So you can just go to the
website and you'll find my name and you can get
all my contact information. anything about my
books or what I'm doing there. That would be
the best way. Great. Andy, thank you so much.
You were so insightful. And with the stories
and everything else, I can't thank you enough
for coming on my podcast. I enjoyed it immensely.
Thank you, Michael. Well. Hold on, folks. Don't
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A huge thank you to our guests for sharing such
incredible insights today. And of course, a big
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