Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building
Profitable Connections, the show where we break
down the art and science of building relationships
that drive real results. I'm your host, Michael
Foreman, and today we're diving deep into what
really takes to build something from the ground
up, not just the strategy, but the mindset, the
grit, and the bold choices that make it possible.
My guest today is someone who didn't inherit
a roadmap. He created one. His journey about
creating, about starting with nothing but a vision,
using resilience, emotional intelligence, and
purpose to turn connections into a lifeline.
If you've ever wondered how to network when you
feel like an underdog or how to lead with value
when you have nothing but ambition, this episode
is for you. I'd like to welcome Dennis. Dennis,
welcome to the podcast. And listen, why don't
you give us a little bit about your background
as well? Sure. I am a lifelong entrepreneur.
Started into this whole foray at about 14 years
old. Discovered very quickly that you can have
a lot more success by enabling others to have
success than necessarily seeking success solely
for yourself. Did that through my early teen
years, 14, 15, 16. Then in my late teens, early
20s, started another company that actually took
off very well. And I was able to retire into
Romania for about four or five years. I'd run
the company a little bit. I had a partner. He
ran it the day -to -day, and I did the 50 ,000
-foot overview. But I ran it from phone cards
and dial -up internet in the early 2000s. So
I'm one of the first remote workers, I like to
jokingly say, because I did that for a series
of a few years. That's been my whole career.
I discovered shortly after actually that project,
I liked working with attorneys, although I have
worked with a number of different types of businesses
throughout my career in marketing and branding
and that sort of thing. And that brings us to
our current project. About a year and a half
ago, my former partner exercised the option to
buy me out. Fine. That's something I've never
been scared of is being out on my own, starting
over. That's status quo. And started this company,
The Legal Podcast Network. The launch date was
May of 24. Started with myself and my VA, no
clients. We now have roughly 150 clients, about
40 people on the team. And we're actually holding
back our growth while we're working on some internal
SOPs and things like that. Once those get done.
It's really off to the races for us. Then we're
going to really hit the gas on this thing. So
that brings me to today. I live on an island
in Belize with my wife. We got married a little
over a year ago. We travel a lot. I run the business
from my laptop, have my relationships all over
the world via my laptop, via my phone, all of
that. So that's what brought me to today. It
sounds wonderful. It sounds great. And it really
sounds like you have the eyes and ears of a true
networking individual because you're doing it
remotely, first of all. But you started out with
what's called a giver's gain. You look to help
before you receive. And that, I think, is the
most important part emotionally regarding networking
itself. Be internally with what we do. We have
a kind of a rule internally for every, so we
use it, we break it up in five. For every five
things that you do, three of them should be 100
% value with who you're doing them for. One of
them can be 50 -50 and one of them can be more
self -serving than the other two categories.
And so we always say 3 -1 -1 is what we say internally.
Give 60, really 75 % value and 20, 25 % just
remind them, hey, this is what I do. This is
how I could help you. But always seeking value
first. That seems like a great equation for anybody
to have for them to be successful in business.
So if you just keep as a general rule, you can
never go wrong. Okay, let's start out. When you
were just starting out. How did you build your
first meaningful connection and what did it lead
to? When I first, are you talking about back
when I was a teenager or when you first started
out, you were 14, 15, 16. Let's bring it to that.
Yeah, I would say the first meaningful relationship
that I built was actually the older lady whose
door I knocked on that kind of helped me come
to that realization that I didn't want to shovel.
I wanted to get the jobs and my brother and his
friends wanted to shovel because they didn't
want to get the jobs. And I remember going up
to her. She was just a sweet lady. And I remember
she handed me a 10 and two fives and said for
$20 shoveled this and this. And I went back every
time we, every time it snowed, every time it,
there was leaves for the summer for her lawn.
And I be, I just knew, and she was, she was up
a block down a couple of blocks and up about
half a block. And I remember it. She, as soon
as I was coming up the walk, she'd be like, oh,
I'm so glad you're here. And then she recommended
me to a few other ladies that she knew in the
neighborhood that needed help with somebody mowing
their lawn, that sort of thing. So that was probably
one of my first, if you would call it networking
connections. I didn't see it as that at the time.
It was just a nice lady who introduced me to
more nice people that needed yard work done.
But I would say that very first person that.
It wasn't our first job, but it was the first
one where I realized, wait a minute, if I get
the jobs and have the relationships with people,
then my team can do the work and they don't have
to have what's uncomfortable for them, which
is interacting with people. So I'd say, honestly,
that was probably my first. One, the second one
I would say that would be more business was I
took a paper route. The guy loved me. And then
I said, how many paper routes do we have around
here? And he said, you can only do so many paper
routes in a day. And I said, yeah, I know some
other kids are like me. And so he started every
time a paper route, somebody would complain or
he'd want to. He wasn't afraid to fire anybody
within walking distance because I knew I would
get a phone call or he would stop by and he'd
say, hey, I got this route. Here's the map. And
I go find somebody. They do that route. I'd collect
it. We'd move on. So that was probably my first
networking between those two. It conjured up
so many memories for me with my paper routes
to begin with. But it's funny because you figured
out building the relationship before the client,
before the customer base. And listen, most people
didn't recognize that really until the pandemic,
because it wasn't until after the pandemic when
people realized that, oh, let me. I have a deep
dive. Let me gain this relationship over them
just being a customer. So you did this 30 years
ago when it wasn't popular. So you really had
a step above it, really, because it shows your
entrepreneurship, but it showed your mindset
as well, that you're putting the person first
above and beyond any work. And you have a great
work ethic as well. So it all came together very
well. Okay. What role has networking played in
moments when you felt the most uncertain or lost
in your journey? I have a lot of what I call
business friends. I'll give you an illustration
of a business friend. Back in early 2000s, now
it's been 20 plus years ago, after I was kind
of looking for the next thing to do, I got recruited
by a company that sold to attorneys. This is
how I got into it. Made friends with the guy
who was the VP of recruiting or whatever it was,
but he's the one who recruited me in. He and
I became friends 22 years ago. We're still friends
to this day. As a matter of fact, we've worked
together. We've worked for each other. We've
had businesses together. And now he's one of
my salespeople. Although I've never met him except
for one time in real life. He came to my house
again, almost 20, about 20 years ago. He came
to my house. We shot pool. We talked. But this
is a guy that for almost 20 something years,
especially in different fits and spurts, we talked
every day. And so we'd bounce ideas, discouragements,
mind frame and go off. So I think you have to
have that network of people that understand what
you're going through. Because when I go to my
wife and I'm like, oh, this happened in the business,
this happened in the business. And it's just
like, when you're on the outside looking in.
especially if this is how you know is a big way
to take care of your family, sometimes I can
put more on the people. I could put more on the
people around me, like my wife, children, family,
or even my people that are working for me. But
if I have people that... are experiencing and
are in the same type of position that I am being
able to have that person that understands and
can give some insight whether it's just hey dude
I know what it's like I've been through it or
it could be when I went through something like
that this is how I handled it and it really helped
me so that's been the biggest advantage during
those tough times is having those what I call
business friendships a number of them that I've
had for years and I keep connected with that
maybe we make money together maybe we don't but
we still try to be an encouragement to one another.
And that's great. You always want to surround
yourself, whether it be virtually or not, with
people like that. You don't want to surround
yourself with yes men, right? Because that doesn't
get you anywhere. That just pats you on the back
whenever you want, and that's fine. But it doesn't
get you where you want to go. When you have somebody
say, I had that same problem, but I did it this
way. And it makes you think. You may not take...
their criticism like a hundred percent, but you
take a good part of it and say, oh, okay, you
know what? I'm not going to make that mistake.
So I can see how that all comes in. Okay. So
let's talk resilience. How do you stay connected
to people when things aren't going well? How
do I stay connected to people when things aren't
going well? I think that when things aren't going
well, and it depends on really obviously this
specific definition, but I think that for me,
it's text, it's FaceTime. I live digitally. I've
been all in on the internet since 2003, so 22
years. Almost every business I've built since
that time has revolved around the internet in
some way. And so I communicate digitally. So
it could be Facebook. It could be FaceTime. It's
any number of these tools. But that's what I
do during those times is stay connected with
different people. And learning their digital
language and the people that you interact with
is extremely important as well, especially when
you have a lot of business or what I also call
virtual friends. Because everybody has a preferred
form of communication. And I always like to use
this illustration. Most of us know somebody who
we might text them, we get no answer. Then one
day we go on Facebook and we inbox them on Facebook
and they instantly respond. And you're like,
you couldn't have answered. I've texted you eight
times in the last two months. But that's because
you now went into their realm and spoke their
digital language. And so. Being able to know
like different people, I'll be like, oh, that's
one of my Instagram friends. That's one of my
LinkedIn friends. That's one of, because I have
to remind myself, like you might say, that's
my friend from Texas. That's my friend from Ohio.
I identify them by their digital language that
they are most comfortable in. And then I can
reach out to those people and gather them together
from really across the world now that I've been
doing this for so long. And I've had people that
have worked with me, for me, alongside of me.
all over the globe my entire career. What do
you prefer as a way to digitally stay connected?
Right now? Business -wise, I would say it's probably
going to be LinkedIn. LinkedIn has become a place
where professionals live and talk and network.
It's really become a huge networking event. And
there's pluses and minuses to that, just like
any sort of event. But it's like a virtual, ongoing
networking event that constantly happens. That's
a place that I live. Personally, friends and
family, I prefer text. And then I can text back
when I'm not busy. And I try to explain to people.
Listen, just because my text doesn't bounce back
as non -deliverable doesn't mean I'm available
immediately that moment. I'll set down my phone
for sometimes a day, sometimes six hours, things
like that. And I like the non -friction ability
to be able to text back and forth with people.
Take a few hours here and you can still hold
a conversation and say, I don't like voice notes.
Because once it's said, it's gone and you can't
continue the conversation. And I always tell
people, they'll send me voice notes. I'm like,
stop sending me voice notes. I only want you
to text me. Why? Voice notes are easier. In the
moment, they're easier for you. In the long term,
they're harder for both of us because we have
no way to reference back our conversation about
this. So those are my preferred forms. Exactly
my feelings as well. Okay. Did you ever make
a bold move in networking, like reaching out
to someone way outside your league? And what
happened? Just recently, actually, and I don't
know if it's outside my league, but TEDx is doing
a series in Roatan, which I'm in, like I said
earlier, Belize. So it's just the next country
down in Honduras or Roatan. And so I was like,
you know what, let's let's try to get on the
stage for this. I wanted to I'd set a goal to
be on stage three times next year, 26. And so
I thought this could be a huge jump towards that,
especially if I could say as seen on TEDx. Now,
what happened was they actually ended up rescheduling
the event to the spring. But in the meantime,
they invited me. They're launching a podcast
and they've invited me to come on the podcast
and teach about podcasting and remote work and
remote work culture and all of those things.
So I fell short of my goal. I'm one of those
people. I firmly believe this. I put goals beyond
what I know are possible because if I'm always
looking at something that's impossible, I will
fail and reach the improbable. If I set my goal
as something that's highly possible, I'll reach
my goal and stop there. So I would rather go
beyond possible to improbable and fall short
of impossible. And that's the way that I set
my goals. And that's why I do that. So I didn't
get on the stage at TEDx, but I got on the podcast.
And so that's improbable. It's not as likely,
but. Not being on the stage, but I think it puts
me in that universe and hopefully eventually
gives me that opportunity to either do a talk
or at least be on an X stage. No, you're definitely
on your way there. I'm scheduled to do two TEDx
talks in two different states. Being on that
podcast is like a middle way and you're actually
on their radar. So that puts you in a very good
position. Okay, how did you build trust? When
you had no track record or brand. And I've started
several companies, so I think that's a very good
question. I think what I try to do in the way
that I build trust is when I approach because
sales process development and digital marketing
or marketing product development, that's my like
core specialty. I could do other things as an
entrepreneur. Most people can. But the thing
that like I'm best at, I know, hey, I feel like
I'm in a in whatever percentage you want to say
top five, top one percent in that sort of arena.
So typically what I do in order to build trust
for a new brand or a new company is very quickly
I try to show what it is that we're doing. For
example, when I launched this company, I have
a buddy here on the island who is also a divorce
attorney out of Miami, and he'll fly back and
forth when he needs to. He's got a partner who's
a very well -known criminal defense attorney.
Matter of fact, I think he has like his own show
on one of the major news networks or something
like that, right? So what I did is I went to
him and said, hey, I'm launching this company.
It's a podcast company for lawyers. You know,
you're going to have a host. You just sit down.
It takes about a half hour. You answer questions.
Very simple. But what I want to do is have some
examples of what we're doing, a finished product,
so that I'm not selling a concept. I'm selling
them something they can see. Now, you can sell
concepts. I've sold concepts off and on my whole
career. But if you can actually have something
to show them, now they're like, and a lot of
them, Would be like in the beginning. Oh, I've
seen that guy. I know who that guy is. The guy
who has his own television show. And so there
was just that. built -in opportunity. So what
I try to do is very quickly build out the product
as what I envision it to be to show clients.
And then I actually go myself and I try to sell
for the first year, six months, 100 clients,
whatever it is. And I develop the process and
listen to clients. And what is it that they doubt?
If I hear a couple of times, yeah, I saw your
website. I'm not interested. I go, I look at
my website. I have people look at my website.
What is on my website that is causing people
to have doubts and have Oh, I think it's this
phrase right here. And then we'll tweak it and
try it. And then I stop hearing that and I fix
it. So that's what I do is I. build slowly. I
lead by doing. And then that allows me to very
quickly take a product. For example, the legal
podcast network, we launched it a year ago, no
clients from what I can see. And now again, don't
quote me on this, but I only know of three or
four quote unquote competitors. And only in that
they do podcasts for lawyers as well. Their total
marketing offering is different. Their pricing
structure is well above mine. But in one year,
we went from not existing to being the largest
attorney podcast network that exists. And again,
that was just so now I don't have to build credibility
just a year into it. They know who we are. They
probably know somebody who's our client. And
we can show them a ton of work and testimonials
and everything else. But in the beginning, that's
what I did is I was the one there. I could answer
the questions. I could overcome the issues. That
also let me know what. I needed to build in order
to be able to hand off the sales process? What
is it that people aren't seeing that I'm talking
them over, but I can put in place to enable and
empower a new person to come in and sell my product?
So that's great. So really you're... You went
out and you saw what people didn't like. You
fixed it. You went a little bit further and you
saw what those people didn't like. You fixed
it. And this is all so you can hand it off to
another salesperson to go out and sell. But they're
getting the final, the finished product. So you
did all the grunt work the first year. So they've
got the finished product. They've got the script
of what to say. They've got the whole sales process.
They've got the outline. They've got the follow
-up cadences. They've got everything they need.
They literally just plug and play. If you're
a good salesperson, I can plug you into my system
and you can go. Sounds fantastic. Really does.
Okay. Have you ever built a relationship that
didn't seem useful at first, but later turned
out to be a game changer? I think we all have
tons of relationships like that. I'm the guy
that's sitting at the coffee shop and I'm on
an island with a lot of tourists. Every person
that sits down next to me, are you visiting or
are you on the island? Now, I've been here long
enough. I usually know if they're on the island,
but I'm the guy that strikes up a conversation
with anybody. So that enables me to be able to
take and... Can you give me the way the question
was worded again? I just want to make sure that
I'm... Have you ever built a relationship that
didn't seem useful at first, but later turned
into a game changer? So I have so many relationships.
I have Instagram relationships, hundreds of them,
hundreds of Instagram relationships. I have Facebook
relationships. And what I mean by that, these
are people that I stay in contact with on a regular
basis. And so when you have that much out there,
anytime I say, hey. The fruition of having such
a large network over LinkedIn, over my phone,
over Instagram, over Facebook, where I literally
probably have, if you counted them all up, probably
conservatively a thousand people that I stay
in contact with at least quarterly, some weekly,
some monthly, some daily, more of my own family
and a few friends. But being able to have those
relationships, anytime I put something out there,
there's help. There's an answer. There's a person.
And it's usually, like you said, somebody I didn't
expect. I build no relationships with hopes of
what will happen with it and zero expectation.
And that way, when any of my relationships come
to fruition, it's a bonus in my life instead
of an expected outcome. And the only reason I
do it that way is because that way. I don't monetize
internally my own relationships. I don't wanna
meet somebody and be like, how can they help
me? And listen, that's the one thing. I meet
people who network and you can feel it when they
have that sort of mind frame of, I'm meeting
you because I'm hoping you can help me somehow
versus the mind frame of somebody that's like,
I'm meeting you because you're a person and I
want to get to know about you and that's it.
And if something comes out of it, great, but
if not, I'm okay as well. I am a firm believer.
I said at the beginning, a giver's gain. But
after I have a whole system of a networking event
at a table and active listening and all that,
but when the person that I'm speaking to is finished
or almost finished, I say, I like you and I like
what you do and how you do it. How can I make
you more successful? How can I be a good referral
source for you? And this releases. Any pressure
that's on my back to perform or anything else,
I'm just there for you. And how can I make you
more successful? So by doing so, that releases
all the pressure. And as you said, it's what
you can do for the other person, not have to
worry about it. The sooner you can do that, the
higher caliber of individual that you can interact
with. So about a few weeks ago, we had Simone
Biles. here on the island she's half belizean
and she happened to be at this little bar right
across the street from where i live with her
football player i don't know if he's her husband
or i can't remember but anyway i i go in i sit
down and everyone's like simone biles is here
and i was like why isn't anybody like saying
hi to her or anything and they're all like we
want to be respectful and i'm like yeah but if
you don't interact with somebody socially that's
you're just making him feel even more awkward.
Can you imagine you're sitting in the middle
of the bar and no one's sitting here, no one's
sitting on the other side of him and everyone
around you. And so I just went up to her and
I said, I said, hello. I said, I hope you don't
mind. I said, I'd like to just introduce myself.
I said, I live here on the island. And I asked
her first, I said, and if you'd be open to it,
if not, I wouldn't be offended, but I'd love
to take a picture with you. And she said, we
don't really take pictures on vacation. What?
Just sit and chat for a minute and let's have
a shot. And we got shots. She bought shots. And
then when we go to do shots, she goes, put your
camera right there and turn on the video. And
me and you will be in the camera and the video
taking shots together and high -fiving or whatever.
And I was like, okay. Although I did make them
like had I not said anything about asking for
a picture, I did make that mistake. But you don't
know how long you have and you don't know how
long they're going to give you. But when she
said instead of saying, sure, take a picture
and use me as a prop of your life and move on,
she said no. Whether she cognizantly acknowledged
this, she said, no, sit down, talk to me like
I'm a human and let's see what happens. And I
think we do that. We walk up to somebody, we're
like, can I take a selfie? And they're like,
why don't you get to know me first? And I think
when we lead with them and what they need, it
allows us to connect to people because I've connected.
And listen, I'm not saying me and Simone Biles
are friends on Facebook and she's coming over
for Thanksgiving. Don't get me wrong. But it
does allow you to make connections with people
who normally. have an aversion to that when you
approach them with, hi, I want this from you.
They're much more likely when you come in as
just normal or even a way to help them. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Okay. So what do you think most people
get wrong about networking and what's helped
you do it differently? I think the thing that.
people get wrong about networking is saying i'm
networking and i'm a networker and i use networking
and then they go around and network and so everyone
feels they're part of their little network harem
that they're trying to build up in their mind
instead of just walking around being natural
and being people being people and connecting
instead of doing something they saw in a book
that says ask this question and then send them
two emails it says this and like i think networking
is the last forum of marketing that belongs 100
% to humanity in that those who are the most
human are the most successful at it. I agree
a thousand percent. I just got into a discussion
with somebody beforehand about AI and how it
works with networking. And I said, AI is great.
It's a wonderful tool, but that's all it is,
a tool. You can't remove the human aspect of
meeting somebody, even through Zoom, because
you're a person, I'm a person, you still have
to interact. So AI can't take away that. We got
a whole big discussion about it, but it's true
because I don't ever want to remove the humanality
of the situation and give it to something foreign,
whether it's AI or something else. AI is a tool
and we can use it, but much rather this. Exactly.
Exactly. And we're a very AI forward company.
I spend several hours a week looking at AI. I
have a full -time young man who learns and integrates
and tests out different AI stuff. And so while
I 100 % believe that AI is a tool. The people
that harness the tools are the one the most effectively
are the ones that are going to be most successful
in the future. Just like when it used to be.
Think about when like the mechanic industry,
they had their their wrenches and they had a
certain way they had to do things. And then all
of a sudden someone walked in and was like, and
they've got this like power tool. It's like some
of them at first are probably like, nah, man,
I didn't build up this muscle over the years
in order to use some sort of machine for it.
But yet the ones who are like. If it takes me
three minutes to do a whole car instead of 15,
one by one, then let's do it. And just going
through the whole car like that. And it's the
same, like we don't see AI as what, like what
you said is it's a tool to make us better. It's
not a tool to replace us. And it never will.
If we spot soulless humans, there's no way we
won't be able to continue to spot soulless machines.
Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. There are so many
different areas which I can go off on that, but
I'm going to try to keep it general. So am I.
So am I. Okay. How do you stay intentional with
your connections as your world grows bigger and
bigger? I think that is really probably one of
the biggest challenges for people. And so I think
with every connection, it has to eventually become
a two -sided connection. Because if I have a
connection, whereas if I fall off and they just
never make any effort, it's like any sort of
relationship. If one person is the only one that's
giving always ever, and I'm not saying initially
beginning to bring the walls down so you can
connect, but just all they ever want is taking
or they'll never take their own time, then maybe
it's okay to let some. of those sort of fade
away. The people that keep my eye and keep my
heart and keep my attention are the people that
are just like, oh, haven't heard from you in
a while. Everything good over there? You didn't
get eaten by a shark, did you? I think networking's
a two -way street. And when people, and I think
that's why I talked about a networker versus
a real person, that person that just keeps sending
me stuff and sending me stuff and I'm trying
to politely by my non -action say, Maybe this
isn't the connection you're hoping because I
don't see real advantage in my end. And so sure,
I'll be friendly to you, but we didn't connect
in a way where I feel like we need to be best
friends. I think for me, I think the biggest
example of this is real estate agents. And again,
I'm using a generality. I'm not saying every
single one of them. But do you know how many
times me and my wife have been on this island
and we meet somebody and they're just like, oh,
I live here too. And we can usually tell within
about 10 minutes of interacting with that person
if they're a real, not even if they tell us,
they don't tell us, but we can just tell the
way they're just, oh, there's just like, it's
like just above who they are. There's like a
surface level. And so I think that that's the
kind of thing that allows you to show your genuineness
over time. I agree. I'm bringing it to real estate
agents because that's the direction you went.
But real estate agents always are in sell mode.
They always do a house or are you looking for
a house or can I help you get a house or can
I help you refinance? They're always in sell
mode. I have a few acquaintances here in Georgia
where they're real estate agents and they've
learned how to. not use that at all. They're
really going to the other person and are seeing
what the other person is about. They're not trying
to, I have a house, you have a house, that type
of thing. So it's a very small percentage of
real estate agents or companies like real estate
agents where the person can't. can't break through
that barrier. You have to break through that
barrier and kind of leave that and just see where
the conversation goes. And if it never enters
into the realm of selling or buying or anything
else like that, you leave it. You leave it. When
you stay in contact with them, whether through
LinkedIn or something else, you're always adding
an attachment of something in the housing market
or something. You're bringing value to that relationship
without asking for anything. Exactly. That's
what I do. Looking back, how did your network
support not just your goals, but also your purpose
or personal evolution? So I'll talk about a different
network that I had. I was in the church scene
for about 20 years, about 16 to 36. Taught in
church, youth pastor, evangelist, missionary,
while having my own businesses. And that network
obviously was very supportive. They supported
me. They helped me. That's a mind frame of the
whole sort of everything with church stuff, right?
It's just like helping people and things like
that. So I would say that having that relationship
or those relationships for those years. Now,
unfortunately. A lot of times when you have a
network that is very insular, sometimes what
can happen is when you make big moves in life
and you switch things up, me transitioning out
of being in church life the way that I was, what
can happen is if those connections aren't beyond
just the thing that you're connected about, then
when you separate, then there's just no more
connection anymore. So I think one of the biggest
ways to have meaningful connections is to make
sure that you're not just connected because of
one thing. Oh, you like this. I like this. We're
friends now, but you've got to find those. I
think they call them invisible strings and things
like that, that basically connect you in so many
ways that. If something happens where that primary
thing, you were in a networking group together,
right? And then that networking group disbands.
That person was just there to network and not
make real connections. They fade off from you.
So that's how I would answer that. You're 100
% correct. Because when you're building those
relationships, you're not building it on a church
or networking group or something. You're finding
something outside that realm. That you can connect
with. I use something called F -O -R -M, family,
occupation, recreation, and a message. And I
always have that in the back of my mind because
I don't want to talk business. So I'm either
going to talk about your husband, wife, sister,
brother, son, daughter, whatever. Not the occupation,
but the recreation part of it. Oh, you like to
ski or you like to boat or you like to play baseball
or something else like that. And we'll talk on
that level. way before we talk business. Where
you have gotten to today, you're a successful
person, but I'm sure you've made mistakes along
the way. So you're laughing. So just give me
one of your bigger mistakes and how did you get
out of it? Give me a moment to narrow it down
a little bit. You're like a true entrepreneur.
Yeah, exactly. I think there's... I think honestly,
and this is going to sound harsh, weird, whatever,
because I'm a very trusting person. And I've
had a couple of business partners that have ripped
me off. And I've had a couple of people that
have worked for me that have ripped me off. And
so my biggest mistake has been either not balancing
or finding a person that balances out that kind
of side of me that because I'm a. I tend to be
a little more forgiving and a little more tenderhearted
towards people. And especially if they have things
going on, I have been in situations where I know
I've been taken advantage of. So I wish I could
have that sort of just how much money are you
going to make me? Like just a little bit, like
3 % to where I didn't find myself in situations
where I'm like, I'm looking here in the last
two weeks, you've had me pay you for 80 hours
of work, but I can find no more than... 80 seconds.
So that's probably one of the things I wish that
I could go back and just slap myself and be like,
don't trust them. Trust but verify, whatever.
What you don't expect, what you don't inspect,
and all of those principles that I've learned
through the years is just being trusting people,
just offering things that had value. And I shouldn't
have maybe given it to them that quickly because
then they just took it and ran with it. So again,
just Just being transparent here, my biggest
mistake throughout my career has been trust.
Trusting people that I shouldn't have to the
point of not having accountability for them.
Now that I have this business, I have five directors.
They each direct each group of people. They bring
the reports to me and their reports. I see all
the client reports. So it's a very different
dynamic. And each of those five directors has
ownership of those five areas of the business.
And then I just manage my five directors. And
that's become a much easier way for me to insulate
myself from. to do those things where I could
be taken advantage of. Absolutely. I learned
a long time ago, when you go into business, you
go into a business with your friend, which I
would advise never to do. But one thing you do
is you write a contract. And even though you
don't refer to it ever again, or nothing, you
take that contract, you put it in a safe, and
you put it away, just in case. In a year, two
years, five years, 10 years, where things tend
to go a little awry, you can always refer back
to the contract. Exactly. That's what I've learned.
Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle.
What advice would you give to someone who feels
like they have nothing to offer when networking?
I would say, first of all, that's just a perception.
Because sometimes the greatest thing you can
offer a person is just, a chance to smile and
chuckle a little bit. And so I think so many
people think I have to be like dropping golden
nuggets of wisdom in order to be of any value
to people, but sometimes just coming in contact
with a pleasant person who genuinely listens
to you and makes you laugh a little bit and has
a little bit of a story that brings, that makes
your day. That changes the dynamic of your mindset
to where throughout the rest of the day. So what
I would say is don't focus on what you can or
can't bring. Just focus on being somebody who
is present, who is there. And I think the moments
will tell you what you can bring versus when
we have something predetermined in our mind that's
going to happen, typically it happens. But when
you don't try to predetermine in your mind the
way a conversation is going to go or the way
whatever interaction is going to go, you can
have much bigger, better results and come away
with something much greater than your initial
desire was to have. Could be a new best friend.
Could be a new partnership. Could be a new connection
that helps your business. You didn't come into
it wanting. You came into it saying, I'm going
to be here. I'm going to be present for this
person. I'm going to listen to them. I'm going
to offer what I can and see what happens. The
people that have pierced through the clutter
with me are not the people that said the smartest
things. They're the people that said the most
sincere things. And I like to take that it's
the whole thought of networking, the word networking
per se. I take them out of there because I say
you network wherever you go, whether it's a department
store, grocery store, anything else. I was like,
how do you act when you're in a department store
or grocery store as when you are in a networking
event? It really shouldn't be any different.
You have to be yourself. And once you are that
way, once you listen to the other person, then
the whole world opens up. It's an amazing thing.
Once you understand that, that whole concept.
So the most impactful people are the people that
make us feel like they cared about us. Yes. And
people don't like, that's such a hack. It's such
a hack. People don't realize it because they
want to share their thing. I do this and here's
this and here's that. And here's a story and
here's this. And listen, I'm as guilty of it
as the next person. But when I purposely say,
wait a minute, I'm just going to be quiet and
listen and ask questions and learn about that
person. I've noticed that the people that I.
Because that's not my nature that I connect with
in that way. That connection is much deeper initially
than the ones who listen to my stories and laugh.
And again, there was a little bit laughter and
things like this. But when I sit and listen to
them, then they recognize me as somebody who
cares in the future. And somebody who cares versus
I don't want to go talk. He's going to tell me
a bunch of stories. You think you got a three
minute combo and you're there 25 minutes later.
That's the guy or girl that you don't want to
be. Absolutely. Very good. Dennis, I feel that
I can talk to you for the next two hours because
we are so much on the same wavelength. But if
somebody wanted to get hold of you, what's the
best way that they can get hold of you? The easiest
way is LinkedIn. Just go onto LinkedIn, type
in my name, Dennis, D -E -N -N -I -S, and then
last name Metter. I'm sure it'll be in the show
notes. Maybe this link as well, because it's
linkedin .com slash in slash Dennis Metter. So
LinkedIn's the easiest way. If they want to see
what I do and what my clients think about it
and the business side of me. go to thelegalpodcastnetwork
.com, which is my company. And so you can see
the two sides of me more like with LinkedIn,
it's more I do videos and content. And it's not
just about podcasting, although there's quite
a bit in there or branding. I talk about all
kinds of different things and just try to share
what I think could be valuable to the type of
people that I know are, at least I'm in their
feed. I don't know how much they listen to me,
but I'm in their feed. You never know. You never
know. What I found with LinkedIn, they may not
like or comment on what you've posted, but they
see it because in a month, two months, three
months, they're going to respond to you about,
say, I didn't even know you saw that post. Oh,
no, I saw it. I didn't comment or like it, but
I saw it. So you could be seeing from where everybody
goes, but you can see that. you're actually being
paid attention to. Because again, it's not your
network of people that you're talking to. It's
your network of people, the network of the network.
So you're reaching out to many more people than
what you're used to. But anyway, Dennis, I want
to tell you, I want to thank you so much for
coming on the podcast. And I hope to speak with
you soon. Absolutely. Thank you for having me
on, Michael. Hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere.
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All right, folks. A huge thank you to our guests
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
with us. If you're interested in my digital courses,
being coached or having me come and talk to your
company, just go to Michael and fill out the
request form. Remember, networking isn't about
being perfect. It's about being present. So take
what you've learned today. get out there, and
make some meaningful connections. If you've enjoyed
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