WEBVTT 00:00:16.780 --> 00:00:19.899 Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building 00:00:19.899 --> 00:00:23.019 Profitable Connections, the podcast where we 00:00:23.019 --> 00:00:26.879 unpack the real strategies that turn handshakes 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.320 into opportunity and conversations into clients. 00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:33.979 I'm your host, Michael Forman, and today's episode 00:00:33.979 --> 00:00:37.479 is all about one of the most powerful and often 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:41.179 misunderstood business growth tools, referrals. 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:46.469 In the word sales, If the word sales makes you 00:00:46.469 --> 00:00:49.689 want to hide behind your LinkedIn profile, you're 00:00:49.689 --> 00:00:52.829 going to love today's guest. She's built a thriving 00:00:52.829 --> 00:00:56.070 referral -driven business without cold pitching, 00:00:56.310 --> 00:01:00.070 high -pressure tactics, or awkward coffee meetings 00:01:00.070 --> 00:01:04.310 that go nowhere. We're talking about how to earn 00:01:04.310 --> 00:01:07.849 referrals by building trust, delivering value, 00:01:08.090 --> 00:01:11.640 and showing up the right way. So if you're ready 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.180 to grow your business by building relationships 00:01:14.180 --> 00:01:17.159 instead of chasing leads, this one's for you. 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:21.439 Let's dive in. I want to tell you, my guest today, 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:25.920 this is all proven technology, right? And this 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:29.060 is what I talk about all the time. When I go 00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:32.760 into businesses, workshops, it's all about referrals. 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:38.299 So Jazz, Jazz Joseph, I want to welcome you to 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:41.310 the podcast. Why don't you introduce yourself 00:01:41.310 --> 00:01:43.069 and give us a little bit about your background? 00:01:43.769 --> 00:01:46.590 Thank you. Yeah, I'm super excited to be here. 00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:50.730 So I spent my career working for big marketing 00:01:50.730 --> 00:01:54.450 agencies, specifically HubSpot, Platinum, Diamond 00:01:54.450 --> 00:01:58.370 partner agencies. And then I started my own business 00:01:58.370 --> 00:02:01.709 about four and a half years ago in January of 00:02:01.709 --> 00:02:06.390 2021. And that business has ebbed and flowed 00:02:06.390 --> 00:02:08.169 in a few different directions over the years. 00:02:08.210 --> 00:02:12.090 Whenever we originally started, we were an agency 00:02:12.090 --> 00:02:14.889 for agencies. So I always used to say working 00:02:14.889 --> 00:02:17.449 in the agency world for years, the shoemaker's 00:02:17.449 --> 00:02:20.469 kids never have shoes. And agency owners spend 00:02:20.469 --> 00:02:22.830 so much time building their clients' businesses 00:02:22.830 --> 00:02:25.289 that they rarely have the time, energy, focus 00:02:25.289 --> 00:02:28.610 to work on their own business. Then in the past 00:02:28.610 --> 00:02:31.639 few years, The market has shifted quite a bit 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:35.560 with the rise of AI and the decrease of organic 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:39.979 reach. And so we really started to hone in more 00:02:39.979 --> 00:02:42.939 on sales enablement and sales support. Whenever 00:02:42.939 --> 00:02:45.520 I think about marketing, I always think about 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:48.020 marketing through a sales and marketing alignment 00:02:48.020 --> 00:02:52.039 lens. I'm very ROI driven. I love to talk numbers, 00:02:52.180 --> 00:02:56.159 revenue with my clients. And so we really have 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:59.759 morphed into more of a sales enablement agency. 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:03.840 And now we support businesses of all sizes, aligning 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:05.860 their sales and marketing, making sure that they 00:03:05.860 --> 00:03:08.539 have full visibility. We are still a HubSpot 00:03:08.539 --> 00:03:12.039 partner agency. So we lean heavily into CRMs 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.219 and tracking. everyone in your CRM, which I know 00:03:15.219 --> 00:03:16.840 we're going to be talking about today, not just 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:20.460 customers, but also referral partners and networking 00:03:20.460 --> 00:03:23.180 opportunities and everybody that you should be 00:03:23.180 --> 00:03:26.539 keeping in touch with as a business owner. This 00:03:26.539 --> 00:03:30.180 all sounds fantastic because it's right in line 00:03:30.180 --> 00:03:32.939 with what I talk about. So I'm very excited for 00:03:32.939 --> 00:03:35.900 this podcast. Okay, let's dive right into it. 00:03:36.569 --> 00:03:39.430 You've built a referral -driven business without 00:03:39.430 --> 00:03:42.849 leaning on traditional sales tactics. What was 00:03:42.849 --> 00:03:45.629 the turning point that led you down that path? 00:03:46.349 --> 00:03:50.469 Yeah, it's a great question. And one of the reasons 00:03:50.469 --> 00:03:53.370 that I started my own business is because I really 00:03:53.370 --> 00:03:57.349 wanted to be human -centric, right? And so I 00:03:57.349 --> 00:03:59.669 worked in client services for years, account 00:03:59.669 --> 00:04:02.069 management, and I was running these accounts 00:04:02.069 --> 00:04:05.740 at these agencies. And I hated the sales piece 00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:08.419 of that job in the sense that I hated to always 00:04:08.419 --> 00:04:11.819 be nickel and diming my clients, right? Asking 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:13.780 for more, more, more. Oh, you want to do this 00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:15.360 thing? Actually, it's going to be an additional 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.139 cost. And so when I built my own business, I 00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:21.800 wanted to be really intentional about doing it 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:24.980 in a way that felt aligned with me and not always 00:04:24.980 --> 00:04:27.339 nickel and diming my clients, but figuring out 00:04:27.339 --> 00:04:30.680 a model that allowed me to really be a fractional 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:34.170 member of their team and embed. and build those 00:04:34.170 --> 00:04:37.230 strong relationships with them. And so naturally, 00:04:37.470 --> 00:04:40.889 whenever you build a business in that way, referrals 00:04:40.889 --> 00:04:44.269 start to come in. And a lot of what I did in 00:04:44.269 --> 00:04:47.089 the early days of my business and still do today 00:04:47.089 --> 00:04:51.670 was networking. So finding out those groups where 00:04:51.670 --> 00:04:54.149 my target audience would hang out. So whenever 00:04:54.149 --> 00:04:57.240 I was really focused on agency owners, I was 00:04:57.240 --> 00:04:59.139 trying to figure out where are agency owners 00:04:59.139 --> 00:05:02.399 hanging out? What events are they going to? Where 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:05.180 are they hanging out online? What Slack groups? 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.240 What Facebook group? The list goes on. And then 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:12.000 down the road, I actually started hosting my 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.019 own events. So I started being that point of 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:17.899 contact for agency owners to gather and network 00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:21.240 and collaborate. And so that was another great 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.759 way to just continue to boost that referral business. 00:05:24.970 --> 00:05:29.329 That's so you hit on so many points that I don't 00:05:29.329 --> 00:05:34.350 have time to comment on all of them. But it sounds 00:05:34.350 --> 00:05:37.170 like you're going down the right path because 00:05:37.170 --> 00:05:40.689 I am a firm believer that networking is the base 00:05:40.689 --> 00:05:43.970 of all businesses. And if you do it correctly, 00:05:44.149 --> 00:05:48.110 but if you follow up correctly, not just meeting 00:05:48.110 --> 00:05:51.389 the people, but if you follow up correctly, you'll 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:55.649 have huge success. OK, so. Why do you think so 00:05:55.649 --> 00:05:59.850 many entrepreneurs struggle with asking for referrals 00:05:59.850 --> 00:06:04.149 and how can they make it feel more natural? Yeah, 00:06:04.189 --> 00:06:08.069 it's a great question. I think part of it is 00:06:08.069 --> 00:06:11.490 as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, we spend 00:06:11.490 --> 00:06:14.170 all day every day thinking about our business, 00:06:14.329 --> 00:06:16.649 right? Like your business is your baby. You're 00:06:16.649 --> 00:06:19.569 constantly thinking about it. But you have to 00:06:19.569 --> 00:06:22.250 remember that no one else is thinking about your 00:06:22.250 --> 00:06:25.310 business nearly as much as you are. And so a 00:06:25.310 --> 00:06:28.889 big piece of networking, getting referral business 00:06:28.889 --> 00:06:32.370 is staying top of mind. And I think that can 00:06:32.370 --> 00:06:34.649 be really challenging for a lot of business owners 00:06:34.649 --> 00:06:37.430 because they think to themselves, I already talked 00:06:37.430 --> 00:06:39.509 about my service or I already launched this new 00:06:39.509 --> 00:06:43.009 project or whatever it is for you, right? But 00:06:43.009 --> 00:06:46.290 the truth of the matter is we're all being bombarded 00:06:46.290 --> 00:06:50.949 with information just 24 -7. And people are not 00:06:50.949 --> 00:06:54.870 going to remember what you do unless you have 00:06:54.870 --> 00:06:57.170 a really strong strategy in place to stay top 00:06:57.170 --> 00:06:59.870 of mind with them. So that can mean different 00:06:59.870 --> 00:07:02.550 things for different businesses. Sometimes that 00:07:02.550 --> 00:07:04.730 is picking up the phone and just saying, hey, 00:07:04.870 --> 00:07:07.269 we haven't touched base in a while. I would love 00:07:07.269 --> 00:07:08.990 to hear what you're up to. I would love to share 00:07:08.990 --> 00:07:11.899 what I'm up to. Sometimes that can be more traditional 00:07:11.899 --> 00:07:14.899 marketing channels like email marketing or like 00:07:14.899 --> 00:07:18.939 LinkedIn or Instagram or TikTok, depending on 00:07:18.939 --> 00:07:22.040 your business model. But at the end of the day, 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:25.939 I think that is a huge mindset shift is. remembering 00:07:25.939 --> 00:07:28.319 that nobody's thinking about your business as 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.759 much as you are. And so it's really important 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:33.540 that you're staying top of mind and you're regularly 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:36.420 talking about yourself, not in a salesy way, 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:39.519 but in a friendly like, hey, reminder, I'm here. 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.420 I'm doing cool stuff. This is what my world looks 00:07:42.420 --> 00:07:45.180 like. Because then when people have a problem, 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:48.420 you're already top of mind and it's very easy 00:07:48.420 --> 00:07:50.930 for them to. either raise their hand and say, 00:07:51.029 --> 00:07:53.910 hey, I'm ready to work with you or refer somebody 00:07:53.910 --> 00:07:56.529 else and say, hey, if you have this problem, 00:07:56.709 --> 00:08:00.209 here's the person you need to talk to. I agree 00:08:00.209 --> 00:08:03.810 with that all 100%. The only thing that I would 00:08:03.810 --> 00:08:07.170 add to it is when you talk to somebody through 00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:09.370 LinkedIn, through an email, something, you have 00:08:09.370 --> 00:08:13.329 to bring value to that conversation. So if you 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:15.370 had an article or something, say, hey, look, 00:08:15.490 --> 00:08:18.449 I just read this and I thought you might be interested. 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:20.680 Have at it, you know, that type of thing. Yeah, 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:23.899 yeah. That will help them keep you top of mind. 00:08:23.939 --> 00:08:26.819 Say, look, you know what? She really, what I 00:08:26.819 --> 00:08:29.879 do, and she really is thinking about my business. 00:08:30.019 --> 00:08:33.139 So here you are thinking, because as you said, 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:35.620 we think about our business a whole lot more 00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:38.940 than everybody else. But now you're giving a 00:08:38.940 --> 00:08:41.740 little inside track to say, look, she's thinking 00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:44.200 about my business too. I'm going to remember 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:47.120 her. So that's a little something. No, that's 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:50.690 a great call out. Thank you. So what's the difference 00:08:50.690 --> 00:08:54.710 between earning a referral and asking for one? 00:08:54.809 --> 00:08:59.409 And why does that distinction matter? Yeah, it's 00:08:59.409 --> 00:09:03.269 a great question. So I think there is room for 00:09:03.269 --> 00:09:06.809 both, admittedly. So earning a referral happens 00:09:06.809 --> 00:09:10.710 when you are not asking for a referral, but instead, 00:09:10.889 --> 00:09:13.269 like I mentioned, you're staying top of mind 00:09:13.269 --> 00:09:16.039 and people are immediately thinking of you. So 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:18.419 when a problem arises, somebody says, hey, I 00:09:18.419 --> 00:09:21.720 need HubSpot help. All of the people in my network 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.039 are going, you have to talk to Jazz. Jazz is 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.740 the person to talk to. So that's earning a referral. 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.559 And asking for a referral, I think is okay in 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.059 certain situations, right? We never want to be 00:09:33.059 --> 00:09:35.000 the person who's knocking on everyone's door 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:37.600 saying, give me business. But I think there are 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:40.639 appropriate times. For example, whenever you're 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:42.940 having a catch up or a coffee chat with someone. 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:45.899 If you can, to your point, Michael, lead with 00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:48.940 value and say, how can I support you? How can 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:52.559 I help you in your business? Listen, wait for 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:54.899 their response. See if you can jump in to help. 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:58.679 And then nine times out of 10, they're going 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:00.379 to ask you the same question, right? They're 00:10:00.379 --> 00:10:02.360 going to say, how can I support you? And you 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:05.279 can say, here's what I'm looking for. I have 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:07.720 some spots open right now. I'm accepting new 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.419 clients. Here's what an ideal client looks like 00:10:10.419 --> 00:10:14.139 for me. Do you know anyone? And when you're leading 00:10:14.139 --> 00:10:17.419 with value and you're also just leading with 00:10:17.419 --> 00:10:20.620 that genuine human, authentic connection, right? 00:10:20.659 --> 00:10:23.720 We're not leading as a salesperson, but we genuinely 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:26.639 want to help the other person. It makes it a 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.519 lot easier for them to feel comfortable than 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:33.019 giving you that referral and knowing, okay, if 00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:35.950 I pass this person over to Jazz. Jazz is not 00:10:35.950 --> 00:10:38.490 going to be a sleazy salesperson and immediately 00:10:38.490 --> 00:10:41.090 get on the phone and try and start selling to 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:43.629 that. She's going to be a genuine human. And 00:10:43.629 --> 00:10:46.009 she's going to say, hey, tell me about you. Tell 00:10:46.009 --> 00:10:48.309 me about your business. Let's chit chat. Let's 00:10:48.309 --> 00:10:50.929 get to know each other. Oh, by the way, I think 00:10:50.929 --> 00:10:53.490 you may be a fit for what I offer. Are you interested? 00:10:53.610 --> 00:10:56.610 Right? That's a very different approach. Absolutely. 00:10:56.789 --> 00:10:58.769 Because we have to go in with the mindset that 00:10:58.769 --> 00:11:02.129 we're a problem solver. Right. They'll have a 00:11:02.129 --> 00:11:05.009 problem and we can solve it. So I say almost 00:11:05.009 --> 00:11:07.629 exactly what you said, but I put a little twist 00:11:07.629 --> 00:11:11.590 on it. I listen to them called active listening. 00:11:11.730 --> 00:11:15.210 I listen to them. I respond to them and I say, 00:11:15.250 --> 00:11:18.110 you know something? I like you. I like how you 00:11:18.110 --> 00:11:22.029 do business. I like what you do. How can I make 00:11:22.029 --> 00:11:26.029 you more successful? How can I be a good referral 00:11:26.029 --> 00:11:30.889 source for you? And so that usually. Blows them 00:11:30.889 --> 00:11:32.970 away. Michael, I don't even know what you do 00:11:32.970 --> 00:11:35.269 yet. Why are you doing this? But that's what's 00:11:35.269 --> 00:11:38.110 going with a giving, not receiving. Going in 00:11:38.110 --> 00:11:40.169 with a servant's heart. You know, saying, look, 00:11:40.230 --> 00:11:44.409 how can I help this person without even them 00:11:44.409 --> 00:11:48.610 knowing what I do? And soon enough, what goes 00:11:48.610 --> 00:11:53.250 around comes around. Okay. Can you walk us through 00:11:53.250 --> 00:11:56.950 what a referral -worthy experience looks like 00:11:56.950 --> 00:12:01.250 in your business model? Yeah, absolutely. It's 00:12:01.250 --> 00:12:04.750 a great question. So my business model is very 00:12:04.750 --> 00:12:09.289 human centric, right? I do consulting. And so 00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:12.750 I'm in the weeds with my clients, right? I'm 00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:14.970 digging into their sales process. I'm meeting 00:12:14.970 --> 00:12:18.330 their team. I'm doing training. I'm deeply understanding 00:12:18.330 --> 00:12:22.090 their revenue goals. And so they have to be able 00:12:22.090 --> 00:12:26.059 to trust me. And that in the same way that I 00:12:26.059 --> 00:12:28.480 lead that way with my clients, I lead that way 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.019 with referral partners. To me, it's all about 00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:35.149 trust. I don't sell a product, right? Click and 00:12:35.149 --> 00:12:37.590 purchase. That's a completely different sales 00:12:37.590 --> 00:12:41.250 cycle. But in the consulting world, it's so human 00:12:41.250 --> 00:12:44.210 driven. It's so connection driven. It's so trust 00:12:44.210 --> 00:12:48.009 driven that however you operate in your sales 00:12:48.009 --> 00:12:50.929 process with prospects, that should depend on 00:12:50.929 --> 00:12:54.720 how you operate with referral partners. And so 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:59.220 I often lead by sharing the pain points that 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:02.019 I address. And I think that is something that's 00:13:02.019 --> 00:13:04.399 really important that a lot of people skip out 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:08.679 on, as opposed to leading with what you do, right? 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:11.580 I do HubSpot consulting. I come in, I help you 00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:15.110 fix your HubSpot. I don't lead with that. I lead 00:13:15.110 --> 00:13:18.370 with, here are the pain points that my target 00:13:18.370 --> 00:13:21.690 audience is experiencing that I come in and solve 00:13:21.690 --> 00:13:24.750 for them. Because it's much easier for a referral 00:13:24.750 --> 00:13:28.289 partner to identify those pain points than it 00:13:28.289 --> 00:13:32.070 is for them to identify a person who needs the 00:13:32.070 --> 00:13:34.289 service that you offer, right? We all have fancy 00:13:34.289 --> 00:13:36.929 names for our consulting businesses now, right? 00:13:37.029 --> 00:13:40.629 I do operations or I do backend development, 00:13:41.090 --> 00:13:43.409 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Most of the time. 00:13:43.850 --> 00:13:45.509 We don't really know what those things mean, 00:13:45.549 --> 00:13:49.070 let's be honest. But we do understand pain points. 00:13:49.470 --> 00:13:53.309 So if you say, I help people whose websites are 00:13:53.309 --> 00:13:55.889 not converting. I help people whose sales and 00:13:55.889 --> 00:13:58.090 marketing teams are arguing with each other. 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:01.389 I help leaders who need more visibility into 00:14:01.389 --> 00:14:04.190 what their sales team is doing and if they're 00:14:04.190 --> 00:14:06.990 selling. I help marketing leaders determine which 00:14:06.990 --> 00:14:09.250 of their campaigns are driving the strongest 00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:14.200 ROI. Oh, now I can identify. I know people who 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:16.419 fit that bill. I know people who are struggling 00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:19.259 with that, or I can be out in the world listening 00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:21.700 for people who are struggling with those problems. 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.919 Very good. Very good. And that's a very good 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:30.840 distinction that it definitely keeps you grounded. 00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:35.100 It keeps you in it so that your client always 00:14:35.100 --> 00:14:39.210 will think of you. without even thinking of you. 00:14:39.289 --> 00:14:41.230 They have a problem, go, oh, I have to go to 00:14:41.230 --> 00:14:44.529 JS for that. Or I can give JS a call and it's 00:14:44.529 --> 00:14:46.529 not going to cost me anything, but to just give 00:14:46.529 --> 00:14:49.009 me some advice. So that's the kind of consulting 00:14:49.009 --> 00:14:52.350 that we all look for. How do you keep yourself 00:14:52.350 --> 00:14:55.610 top of mind in your network without sounding 00:14:55.610 --> 00:14:59.250 like you're constantly promoting something? Yeah, 00:14:59.289 --> 00:15:04.259 great question. So I think that it's twofold. 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:08.259 One is being super passionate about what you 00:15:08.259 --> 00:15:10.580 do. And I think when you're super passionate, 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:13.899 that passion just shines through. And going hand 00:15:13.899 --> 00:15:17.919 in hand with that is storytelling. So I really 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:21.580 challenge myself at the end of every day to look 00:15:21.580 --> 00:15:24.460 at my calendar and think about what did I do 00:15:24.460 --> 00:15:28.159 today that feels like a good story that I can 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.679 use to stay top of mind. So for example, if I 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.110 had a client call, and they came to me with a 00:15:34.110 --> 00:15:37.549 very specific problem. That's a story that I 00:15:37.549 --> 00:15:41.190 can then tell via a LinkedIn post, via an email 00:15:41.190 --> 00:15:43.789 newsletter, in a networking call that I have 00:15:43.789 --> 00:15:47.070 next week, whatever it is, that doesn't make 00:15:47.070 --> 00:15:49.450 me sound salesy, right? Because I'm not leading 00:15:49.450 --> 00:15:51.570 with, hey, let me tell you about the services 00:15:51.570 --> 00:15:54.350 I offer. But instead, I'm telling a story like, 00:15:54.429 --> 00:15:56.830 hey, listen to how interesting this is. A client 00:15:56.830 --> 00:16:00.690 came to me, they had XYZ problem. And at first, 00:16:00.690 --> 00:16:02.769 we thought maybe we should do this, but then 00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:05.009 we tried it out and it didn't work. And here's 00:16:05.009 --> 00:16:07.269 what actually worked for them. And here's how 00:16:07.269 --> 00:16:09.309 it moved the needle. And here's the results that 00:16:09.309 --> 00:16:12.490 they saw. And that's a really tangible story 00:16:12.490 --> 00:16:15.370 that allows my passion to bleed through, that 00:16:15.370 --> 00:16:17.769 allows you to understand the problem and the 00:16:17.769 --> 00:16:21.690 solution without me explicitly saying, hey, if 00:16:21.690 --> 00:16:23.809 you know somebody with this problem, please send 00:16:23.809 --> 00:16:25.370 them to me because I would love to work with 00:16:25.370 --> 00:16:29.580 them. That's absolutely the best way to do it 00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:33.000 because I know when I go on stages and I talk 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:38.659 in workshops, stories resonate with people. People 00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:42.480 will remember the story above and beyond what 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.240 you're trying to teach them. So if you can bring 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.559 that story in, they'll say, oh, I have the same 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.600 problem. I have the same pain point. And that 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.570 will draw them in that much faster. Okay. What 00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:58.950 advice would you give to someone who is new in 00:16:58.950 --> 00:17:01.789 business and doesn't yet have a strong referral 00:17:01.789 --> 00:17:06.269 base and where do they start? Yeah, great question. 00:17:06.750 --> 00:17:10.190 My biggest advice to people who are new in business 00:17:10.190 --> 00:17:14.869 is to start with a CRM. And the reason I say 00:17:14.869 --> 00:17:17.150 that is because when you are new in business. 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:21.660 People love to help you, right? Everybody is 00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:24.160 willing to give you some time, give you some 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.279 advice, have a quick coffee chat with you. And 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.140 all of those people that you're collecting are 00:17:30.140 --> 00:17:32.920 now invested in your growth and they want to 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:36.099 see you succeed. And you need to stay in touch 00:17:36.099 --> 00:17:38.480 with them. But it's so easy as you're building 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.019 a business to forget about those people, let 00:17:41.019 --> 00:17:42.940 them fall through the cracks. Maybe you remember 00:17:42.940 --> 00:17:45.380 them, but you don't remember exactly what you 00:17:45.380 --> 00:17:48.829 talked with them about. And if you have a CRM, 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:51.829 it's really easy for you to keep track of all 00:17:51.829 --> 00:17:54.730 of those people, take notes about what you talked 00:17:54.730 --> 00:17:58.150 about, even set yourself tasks maybe in a month 00:17:58.150 --> 00:18:00.930 or three months down the road to follow up with 00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:03.509 them and give them an update and ask what they're 00:18:03.509 --> 00:18:07.490 up to and continue that conversation with them. 00:18:08.089 --> 00:18:10.509 So if you're able to build that really strong 00:18:10.509 --> 00:18:13.309 foundation from the beginning with a CRM and 00:18:13.309 --> 00:18:17.490 stay organized in that way, you can go just so 00:18:17.490 --> 00:18:20.990 much farther because there's people that honestly 00:18:20.990 --> 00:18:24.109 right now as a four and a half year business 00:18:24.109 --> 00:18:26.829 owner. probably wouldn't give me the time of 00:18:26.829 --> 00:18:30.069 day. But whenever I was starting out, people 00:18:30.069 --> 00:18:32.289 are just so much more likely to help you, right? 00:18:32.390 --> 00:18:34.789 They want to see you succeed. They want to give 00:18:34.789 --> 00:18:38.289 you that wisdom and impart some of what they've 00:18:38.289 --> 00:18:41.369 learned onto you. And so capture those people 00:18:41.369 --> 00:18:44.130 while you're young and fresh and new, and then 00:18:44.130 --> 00:18:46.009 take them on this journey with you as you're 00:18:46.009 --> 00:18:50.430 building your business. I agree. Part of my presentation 00:18:50.430 --> 00:18:54.809 is using a CRM. I happen to be a HubSpot user, 00:18:55.029 --> 00:18:57.990 have been for about three years. So when you'd 00:18:57.990 --> 00:19:00.869 mentioned the tasks and keeping up and the notes 00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:03.150 and everything, I'm like, that's what I do every 00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:05.230 day. You know, the first thing I do, I look at 00:19:05.230 --> 00:19:08.549 my tasks for the day, I accomplish them, and 00:19:08.549 --> 00:19:10.809 then I can move on and do new business. But I 00:19:10.809 --> 00:19:15.009 look at my tasks. So I can't agree more for using 00:19:15.009 --> 00:19:18.170 a CRM. And of course, I don't get any money out 00:19:18.170 --> 00:19:23.509 of it. but use HubSpot. Okay. Have you ever received 00:19:23.509 --> 00:19:27.529 a referral that completely surprised you? And 00:19:27.529 --> 00:19:32.730 what do you think made it happen? Yes, all the 00:19:32.730 --> 00:19:37.079 time. And I think most of my really surprising 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.039 referrals will come from my LinkedIn presence. 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.660 So I am very active posting on my personal LinkedIn. 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:47.119 And what I have found over the years is that 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:50.240 a lot of people are lurking on LinkedIn. So they 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:53.140 never like a post. They never comment. They never 00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:56.160 share. And so I don't even know that they're 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:58.519 reading my posts. I don't know that they're engaging 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:02.150 with my content. But all of a sudden... a lead 00:20:02.150 --> 00:20:05.069 will come through and they will say the most 00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:07.910 random thing to me. Hey, one of your professors 00:20:07.910 --> 00:20:11.089 from whenever you were in college is my wife 00:20:11.089 --> 00:20:13.390 and she's been seeing your LinkedIn presence 00:20:13.390 --> 00:20:18.069 and I thought that I could use you. Hey, we haven't 00:20:18.069 --> 00:20:21.650 talked in 10 plus years, but I see you on LinkedIn. 00:20:21.690 --> 00:20:24.750 I know exactly what you do. I know the pain points 00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:27.490 that you help people with and I'm struggling 00:20:27.490 --> 00:20:30.789 with that. And so I want to work with you. And 00:20:30.789 --> 00:20:33.750 so again, like so much of it is staying top of 00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:36.829 mind and it can feel like a slog because you 00:20:36.829 --> 00:20:39.210 think nobody's reading these posts. I'm not getting 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:41.990 the engagement. The same four people comment 00:20:41.990 --> 00:20:44.430 on every single one of my posts and they're my 00:20:44.430 --> 00:20:46.369 friends and I know that they already know what 00:20:46.369 --> 00:20:49.109 I'm doing. But the truth of the matter is there 00:20:49.109 --> 00:20:51.369 are so many people lurking in the background 00:20:51.369 --> 00:20:55.349 that are not going to engage until they have 00:20:55.349 --> 00:20:57.509 a problem or they know someone with a problem. 00:20:57.799 --> 00:20:59.720 And then they're going to pop their head up and 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.220 say, hey, I'm ready to talk to you. I know the 00:21:03.220 --> 00:21:07.559 feeling. I post on LinkedIn. That's what I consider 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.380 the business site of social media. I post on 00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:14.119 there probably twice a day, five days a week. 00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:18.059 And I guess about seven months had passed. And 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:20.400 I got a LinkedIn message from an event planner. 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:24.799 Like we were talking every day. I'm like, who 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:28.069 are you? I didn't. Write that. And she just said, 00:21:28.109 --> 00:21:29.869 would you be interested in talking and doing 00:21:29.869 --> 00:21:32.769 this and speaking? It's a short plane ride and 00:21:32.769 --> 00:21:36.630 so on and so forth. But you're right. They're 00:21:36.630 --> 00:21:39.430 lurking in the background, just seeing what your 00:21:39.430 --> 00:21:42.950 next post would be. And they realize that they 00:21:42.950 --> 00:21:46.329 can use you. Exactly. And Michael, that's such 00:21:46.329 --> 00:21:49.309 a testament to to the tone and style of your 00:21:49.309 --> 00:21:52.029 post that people feel comfortable starting that 00:21:52.029 --> 00:21:54.349 conversation with you as if they know you as 00:21:54.349 --> 00:21:56.930 if they've been talking to you forever. And I 00:21:56.930 --> 00:22:00.089 would encourage our listeners to to think in 00:22:00.089 --> 00:22:02.970 a similar way of how can you feel friendly? How 00:22:02.970 --> 00:22:05.650 can you feel approachable? Yes, LinkedIn is a 00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:07.710 professional network. But at the end of the day, 00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:10.130 we're all humans doing business with other humans. 00:22:10.450 --> 00:22:13.210 So if you can make yourself come across in a 00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:16.869 way. that feels very warm and open, people are 00:22:16.869 --> 00:22:19.569 more likely to reach out to you and feel like 00:22:19.569 --> 00:22:22.509 they can approach you with questions or opportunities 00:22:22.509 --> 00:22:25.670 or problems or things that they want to loop 00:22:25.670 --> 00:22:29.410 you in on. I'm absolutely right. One of the things 00:22:29.410 --> 00:22:33.430 I had to remind people is that digital world 00:22:33.430 --> 00:22:36.930 and person -to -person world, right? The digital 00:22:36.930 --> 00:22:40.750 world, Zoom, this is great, but I have to remember 00:22:40.750 --> 00:22:45.190 that Jazz Joseph is a person and that I'm talking 00:22:45.190 --> 00:22:48.009 to a person. So you have the same things, but 00:22:48.009 --> 00:22:50.730 through Zoom, but you still have to follow the 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:54.990 same rules as person -to -person networking. 00:22:55.349 --> 00:22:58.730 When I say rules, I just mean that comfort feeling. 00:22:59.109 --> 00:23:04.630 Okay, so systems or habits do you use to track, 00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:07.109 nurture, and deepen your referral relationships 00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:10.069 over time? I think I know the answer to this, 00:23:10.109 --> 00:23:14.579 but... Go ahead. Yes. I mean, we're back to HubSpot. 00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:17.920 It really, it's that all -in -one tool. And honestly, 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:21.119 for anybody listening who is just starting out, 00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:25.259 the free HubSpot CRM is super powerful in and 00:23:25.259 --> 00:23:28.599 of itself. You don't need to onboard to like 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:31.460 these really expensive tiers right away. The 00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:33.440 nice thing about HubSpot is that it will grow 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.720 with you. But I have clients that have been on 00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:38.400 the free version for years and years. And it's 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.339 a very, very... functional CRM. It gets you where 00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:43.900 you need to be. So yeah, as far as nurturing 00:23:43.900 --> 00:23:47.579 and keeping in touch with people, like I mentioned, 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:50.859 I use tasks a lot. Depending on what level of 00:23:50.859 --> 00:23:53.240 HubSpot you're in, you can use sequences. You 00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:57.200 can enroll people in automated emails that feel 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.769 very one -to -one. so that you can just be nurturing 00:24:01.769 --> 00:24:04.289 these people in the background. And so they don't 00:24:04.289 --> 00:24:06.170 fall through the cracks. You don't forget about 00:24:06.170 --> 00:24:09.470 them. And as soon as they respond, that lands 00:24:09.470 --> 00:24:11.809 in your inbox and then you take over. So it's 00:24:11.809 --> 00:24:15.529 not all automated. It's just that first message 00:24:15.529 --> 00:24:18.390 in the background is automated again. So you 00:24:18.390 --> 00:24:19.930 don't forget about them so they don't fall through 00:24:19.930 --> 00:24:22.809 the cracks, but then you can take over as a real 00:24:22.809 --> 00:24:25.150 human and start having those conversations and 00:24:25.150 --> 00:24:28.130 booking those meetings. So it's nice to really 00:24:28.130 --> 00:24:31.130 pair. the two. A lot of times whenever I talk 00:24:31.130 --> 00:24:33.990 about automation, people get very sheepish and 00:24:33.990 --> 00:24:36.589 they think, oh no, I could never do that because 00:24:36.589 --> 00:24:39.690 I have a very human -centric business and people 00:24:39.690 --> 00:24:41.710 are going to know and I don't want to come across 00:24:41.710 --> 00:24:44.609 sounding like a robot. But there's a beautiful 00:24:44.609 --> 00:24:48.150 way that you can pair the two because as a human, 00:24:48.230 --> 00:24:51.089 you're limited in your capabilities, right? It's 00:24:51.089 --> 00:24:53.230 easy to forget about people. It's easy to get 00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:56.269 busy. It's easy to let your nurturing strategy 00:24:56.269 --> 00:24:58.630 or your networking strategy fall to the wayside 00:24:58.630 --> 00:25:01.849 when client work comes into play. But if you're 00:25:01.849 --> 00:25:04.529 pairing that with the tools and systems in the 00:25:04.529 --> 00:25:07.869 background, then you know that's taken care of, 00:25:07.869 --> 00:25:10.750 that's working for you, and then you can jump 00:25:10.750 --> 00:25:13.609 in when it's necessary to have that human touchpoint. 00:25:14.630 --> 00:25:18.289 Absolutely. Always keeping that human touchpoint 00:25:18.289 --> 00:25:21.789 with you, available, just it's separating you 00:25:21.789 --> 00:25:26.410 from AI. And if you do that, people can really... 00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:30.660 Notice that. There's a way to tell if you see 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.079 an article or something, if it's AI written. 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:35.980 There are certain buzzwords, right? But you have 00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:39.460 to keep it more human, more personal. And even 00:25:39.460 --> 00:25:43.660 with the advent of AI, I still think this is 00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:46.940 much more important. It's more important. When 00:25:46.940 --> 00:25:50.160 you walk into a networking event, you like to 00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.859 feel the vibe of the room. You like to feel the 00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:55.200 vibe of the person you're talking to. That's 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:58.670 so important. And keeping in touch with everything 00:25:58.670 --> 00:26:00.569 that you've been talking about, that becomes 00:26:00.569 --> 00:26:03.950 very, very important. Okay. How do you handle 00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:07.509 referrals that aren't a good fit without damaging 00:26:07.509 --> 00:26:10.690 the relationship with the person who sent them 00:26:10.690 --> 00:26:14.730 your way? Yeah. So this is what's so beautiful 00:26:14.730 --> 00:26:19.210 about referrals is that as much as you want to 00:26:19.210 --> 00:26:21.390 be getting referrals, you should also be giving 00:26:21.390 --> 00:26:25.500 referrals. And so I keep a list of People who 00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:28.759 work in a similar space to me, but slightly different, 00:26:28.940 --> 00:26:31.680 right? So people who work with maybe clients 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.740 that are B2C. I mostly play in the B2B world. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.279 People who work with clients that are a little 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.660 smaller than what I would like to work with. 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:42.539 Or the flip side, people that work with big enterprise 00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:44.859 companies that I just don't have the manpower 00:26:44.859 --> 00:26:49.839 to handle. So I keep lists of... people who work 00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:53.400 in adjacent spaces to me that I trust. And then 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:58.059 I can send business to them and or partner with 00:26:58.059 --> 00:27:00.319 them. A lot of times we can come in and we can 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.880 work together on a project. But the more that 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:07.240 you send business to someone, again, the more 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.880 you stay top of mind and the more they're willing 00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:13.160 to send that business back to you. And so I've 00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:15.180 made some really great partnerships throughout 00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:17.160 the years, like I said, with people who work 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:19.420 in an adjacent space, like HubSpot developers. 00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:23.150 I have a HubSpot developer. And that's all they 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:26.289 do is build websites on HubSpot. That's not really 00:27:26.289 --> 00:27:28.990 where I live. I live more in the sales and marketing 00:27:28.990 --> 00:27:32.329 automation space. But of course, there's overlap. 00:27:32.650 --> 00:27:34.869 And so anytime my clients have a development 00:27:34.869 --> 00:27:37.329 need, I'm saying, hey, you have to talk to this 00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:40.130 guy. Anytime his clients have sales and marketing 00:27:40.130 --> 00:27:42.190 automation needs, he's saying, hey, you have 00:27:42.190 --> 00:27:44.630 to talk to Jazz. And we've built this really 00:27:44.630 --> 00:27:47.069 beautiful partnership over the years. And I know 00:27:47.069 --> 00:27:50.029 I can trust him. So any prospects or clients 00:27:50.029 --> 00:27:53.049 that come to me and need that help. I feel really 00:27:53.049 --> 00:27:56.329 confident referring to him and vice versa. So 00:27:56.329 --> 00:27:58.950 I would challenge you to build your network, 00:27:59.069 --> 00:28:03.309 not just of potential clients, but of also collaborators, 00:28:03.369 --> 00:28:05.950 because that's going to help you go farther as 00:28:05.950 --> 00:28:10.309 well. Absolutely. Absolutely. Before I ask you 00:28:10.309 --> 00:28:13.670 the last question, I ask all of my guests this 00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:17.630 very same thing. You've had quite an extensive 00:28:17.630 --> 00:28:21.049 background. Four and a half years ago, You decided 00:28:21.049 --> 00:28:25.190 to go out on your own. What major mistake have 00:28:25.190 --> 00:28:30.470 you made and how have you turned it around? Yeah, 00:28:30.470 --> 00:28:33.430 it's a great question. It's so hard because I 00:28:33.430 --> 00:28:36.049 think in hindsight, we look back on our mistakes 00:28:36.049 --> 00:28:38.289 and we realize how much we've learned from them. 00:28:38.410 --> 00:28:40.329 And so I don't even want to call them mistakes 00:28:40.329 --> 00:28:43.710 anymore. But so I alluded to it a little bit 00:28:43.710 --> 00:28:48.079 at the beginning of our call. I for a while was 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:51.400 hosting networking events for my target audience 00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:54.059 and that was a really awesome way for me to build 00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:56.880 my pipeline and get my name out there and I was 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.880 really enjoying them and the people that were 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:01.799 attending were really enjoying them as well and 00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:03.980 I was enjoying them so much so that I thought 00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:06.500 why don't I start a second business that is a 00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:10.509 networking group. And so I put so much time and 00:29:10.509 --> 00:29:13.170 energy into building this networking group. And 00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:15.650 I'll tell you, a lot of people do it successfully. 00:29:15.829 --> 00:29:20.130 But I found that selling memberships to an online 00:29:20.130 --> 00:29:22.309 networking group was one of the most challenging 00:29:22.309 --> 00:29:25.710 things I've ever done. And it was very low cost, 00:29:25.869 --> 00:29:28.250 but it was just really challenging. And it was 00:29:28.250 --> 00:29:30.789 peak COVID times. I think there was a lot of 00:29:30.789 --> 00:29:33.690 Zoom fatigue and online networking fatigue going 00:29:33.690 --> 00:29:36.829 on. But we built this group. We ran it for two 00:29:36.829 --> 00:29:40.690 years. And retention was amazing. And our members 00:29:40.690 --> 00:29:43.849 absolutely loved it. But recruitment was such 00:29:43.849 --> 00:29:46.049 a slog. And it was really hard for us to get 00:29:46.049 --> 00:29:49.779 new members. And at the end of the day, I had 00:29:49.779 --> 00:29:52.019 to have some really hard conversations with myself 00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:55.160 and with my team to say, hey, this business is 00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.640 not profitable. It's basically breaking even. 00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:00.799 And we have these members who absolutely love 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.799 it. And it's really hard for me to make the decision 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.400 to shut this down because I know they're going 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:08.640 to be so upset. But I have to think about my 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:11.319 own time and energy and all that we've been putting 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.140 into this. And so after two years, we had to 00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:17.940 sunset the network and it was. bittersweet, but 00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:21.019 I would say that was one of the biggest quote 00:30:21.019 --> 00:30:23.539 unquote mistakes. But like I said, I learned 00:30:23.539 --> 00:30:26.019 so much from it. There was a lot of mindset shifts 00:30:26.019 --> 00:30:28.160 and growth that had to happen throughout that 00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.380 time. But yeah, that's, that would probably be 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:35.500 my number one. You can't grow unless you have 00:30:35.500 --> 00:30:38.559 mistakes, right? Listen, you've been in business 00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:41.720 for four and a half years. You know that, Hey, 00:30:41.779 --> 00:30:45.490 look, I'm in business. I'm in business. I'm almost 00:30:45.490 --> 00:30:48.849 out of business. What do I do? Oh, I got another 00:30:48.849 --> 00:30:51.390 client. It's going to keep me afloat. Oh, I'm 00:30:51.390 --> 00:30:53.369 out of business. You know, it's going to go up 00:30:53.369 --> 00:30:55.569 and down like that until you get all the way 00:30:55.569 --> 00:31:00.470 up and it'll serve itself. Okay. Bring this podcast 00:31:00.470 --> 00:31:03.970 full circle. If someone listening wants to shift 00:31:03.970 --> 00:31:08.869 from a sales heavy model to a referral focused 00:31:08.869 --> 00:31:12.230 one, what's the first thing you'd have them change? 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:17.039 Yeah, I would say the biggest thing that you 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.980 need to change is number one, your messaging. 00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:24.240 And the best way to change your messaging is 00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:27.099 just getting yourself out there and just speaking 00:31:27.099 --> 00:31:30.720 to people. So you heard me give my little spiel 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:32.720 at the beginning of this podcast where I said. 00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:35.740 Agency owners, the shoe bankers kids never have 00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:39.039 shoes, and agency owners spend so much time building 00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.119 their clients' businesses that they rarely have 00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:43.319 the time, energy, or focus to work on their own 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:47.849 business. It took me... months to figure out 00:31:47.849 --> 00:31:51.089 that's what I needed to say to get the head nods 00:31:51.089 --> 00:31:54.890 from people and that is the best way is just 00:31:54.890 --> 00:31:58.829 go talk to a bunch of people and really pay attention 00:31:58.829 --> 00:32:01.750 to the language that they are using when they 00:32:01.750 --> 00:32:04.670 talk about their problems and figure out how 00:32:04.670 --> 00:32:08.170 you can repeat that messaging back to them and 00:32:08.170 --> 00:32:10.329 once you get to a place where you start talking 00:32:10.329 --> 00:32:12.990 about your business and you get that Oh yeah, 00:32:13.150 --> 00:32:16.369 I've been there. I totally agree head on from 00:32:16.369 --> 00:32:19.490 people. That's when you know you've hit the nail 00:32:19.490 --> 00:32:21.750 on the head. You've identified that problem. 00:32:22.230 --> 00:32:26.130 And once you have a really solid problem that 00:32:26.130 --> 00:32:29.009 you can solve for people, that pain point, that's 00:32:29.009 --> 00:32:32.880 when the referrals just start flowing in. Jess, 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.539 I want to tell you, this was a great podcast. 00:32:36.019 --> 00:32:39.740 You are in such in line with what I talk about, 00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:42.460 what I speak about, and what I firmly believe 00:32:42.460 --> 00:32:45.920 in. If somebody wants to get hold of you, either 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:48.640 for coaching or to hire you as a consultant or 00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:50.519 whatever, what's the best way for them to get 00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:55.059 hold of you? Yeah, so you can visit J -A -S -Z 00:32:55.059 --> 00:32:59.720 -R -A -E .com. That's jazzray .com. Or you can 00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.799 find me on LinkedIn, Jazz Ray Joseph. And I would 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:06.440 love to connect in either place. Fantastic. Jazz, 00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.099 thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. 00:33:09.420 --> 00:33:12.859 And I hope to see you soon. Amazing. Thank you 00:33:12.859 --> 00:33:14.880 so much for having me. This was a great conversation. 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:21.279 I'm happy we got a chance to do it. Well. Hold 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.480 on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let's hear from 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.880 our sponsors. David Neal, co -founder Revved 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:31.400 Up Kids. Revved Up Kids is on a mission to protect 00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:35.240 children and teens from sexual abuse, exploitation, 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.539 and trafficking. They provide prevention training 00:33:38.539 --> 00:33:42.319 programs for children, teens, and adults. To 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:46.960 learn more, go to revvedupkids .org. Henry Kaplan, 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:50.160 Century 21. When it comes to making the biggest 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.160 financial decision of your life, leave it in 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.000 the hands of a proven professional, Henry Kaplan. 00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:59.500 Henry is a global real estate agent with Century 00:33:59.500 --> 00:34:03.960 21, celebrating his 41st year in business. No 00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.400 matter where you're moving, Henry has the right 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.940 connections for you. You can contact Henry at 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:16.300 561 -427 -4888. A huge thank you to our guests 00:34:16.300 --> 00:34:20.079 for sharing such... insights today. And of course, 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.019 a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, 00:34:23.219 --> 00:34:25.940 for tuning in and spending your time with us. 00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:29.500 If you're interested in my digital courses, being 00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:32.239 coached or having me come and talk to your company, 00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.900 just go to Michael and fill out the request form. 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.719 Remember, networking isn't about being perfect. 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.000 It's about being present. So take what you've 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:45.840 learned today, get out there and make some meaningful 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.789 connections. If you've enjoyed this episode, 00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:51.949 please don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a 00:34:51.949 --> 00:34:54.550 review and share it with someone who could use 00:34:54.550 --> 00:34:57.690 a little networking inspiration. Let's keep the 00:34:57.690 --> 00:35:00.690 conversation going. You can find me on Apple, 00:35:00.809 --> 00:35:05.650 Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my website, foreman 00:35:05.650 --> 00:35:08.050 .com slash podcasts.