Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building
Profitable Connections, the podcast where we
uncover the strategies, stories, and systems
that turn relationships into real results. I'm
your host, Michael Foreman, and today's episode
is going to challenge the way you think about
career growth. collaboration, and connection.
My guest is an expert in helping professionals
get promoted in just 90 days, rethink how we
generate ideas by explaining why brainstorming
doesn't work, and master the art of dealing with
distractions and interruptions without losing
momentum or meaningful relationships along the
way. This conversation goes beyond surface -level
networking. We're talking about building influence,
showing up with intention and creating the kind
of connections that don't just open doors. They
help you walk through them prepared. So whether
you're climbing the corporate ladder, leading
a team, building your brand with this episode
or building your brand, this episode is packed
with insights you can use right now. I'd like
to bring it to the podcast. Greg Wenger, and
he has really an extensive background. So I'm
going to let him introduce himself, and then
we'll get on underway. Greg, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks so much, Michael. It's really great to
be here. I'm happy to tell you a little bit about
my background. I come from a really high achiever.
family, really. My father was a surgeon, so there's
really no question that you're going to go after
it in life. And so I came out of the barrel of
the shotgun or the cannon, whatever metaphor
you want to use. And so I was high school valedictorian.
I was on the swim team, All -American swimming.
I'll go to Stanford. And then I started to hit
some headwinds there and trying to find my way
a little bit. I drifted into, I studied. Two
things. I studied English and I studied computer
science and I thought, okay, I'm going to get
a job as a programmer. And I go out into the
career world and I tapped the brakes a little.
I didn't, I saw a lot of peers going after these
super high, highest level positions and I wanted
to enjoy life a little bit more. So I've always
thought work -life balance it, however that looks
for me. But I worked in programming for a while,
but I gradually got I didn't love decisions that
were being made. I was surrounded by brilliant
engineers and they're doing amazing things. And
I was like, the decision, why are we building
these things? I wanted to have some influence
over that. And so I'm going to cut to the chase.
I got into management. achieved different levels,
manager, director, VP. And I was eventually on
an executive team and that this is where I am
now. I've since worked at three companies. We've
grown them to like between 10 to 70 million in
revenue. We've done it multiple times. But the
first one I was just, this is a luck. I was on
an IPO company. So I've seen a lot of success.
I've learned a ton out of that. But where that
neat story doesn't tell you is the struggle that
I had, because as it turns out, I have the words
for it now, my whole life I've been an introvert.
And so when I was so achievement oriented, I
was like, I'm ready to be a leader now. And I
wasn't presenting as a leader. And this was just
a lot of things that we think of as leadership
didn't come naturally to me. Standing up confrontation.
I went through a lot of anxiety dealing with
confrontation at different stages in my career.
And so as I reached each level, it ratchets up
the pressure. And so at each level, I had to
learn new techniques and new skills along the
way, including at the executive level. That was
another level. And I had to do even more work
on myself just to give myself the tools to be
able to deal with the levels of pressure at that
level. So that's it in a nutshell. And that's
really good. And you hit on so many points that
I speak about regarding the networking communication,
but the introverts versus the extroverts and
the problems that go along with each of them.
And I don't want to get into what I do. The way
here that you're speaking, you've conquered most
of it. As you got that extra level, you conquered
what you had to do to... excel in your position
and you did it so on and so forth. And that's
all wonderful. That's great because, and at the
end, I'm going to ask you what you would recommend
for somebody else, but that's just really good.
Let me just go into some of the questions that
I have for you. You teach how to get promoted
in 90 days. What role does strategic networking
play in making that happen fast? It's a great
question. Maybe I just start with the initial
step. And it can sound like a bit of a cliche,
but it's really the essential piece. Like if
you don't do this, none of the rest really works
the way you want, especially if you're trying
to achieve something in 90 days. And that's really
to promote yourself. And what that means, it's
really a shift in mindset. You have to act as
though you already have the role that you want.
And so that involves knowing what that role is
and knowing maybe you see examples of it, maybe
you don't. And so that's one way that the networking
piece comes in. But it's really more about how
you show up. It's one part of it. And the other
part is the level of commitment. When you get
to a place where that next promotion is what
you must have. And there's just no question it's
going to happen. It's going to unfold for you,
whether it's in your current role or not. It
just becomes part of your destiny and your future.
And that's a decision everyone can make. And
I think a lot of people don't realize it until
you've had that experience. You don't realize
that this is how it actually works. So that's
the first step. The next step is the strategic
networking, because you need to figure out a
lot of things. You need to figure out. How am
I being perceived? You really need feedback is
one thing. And so you want to seek out mentors,
other people in your role, people who surround
your role. Roles surrounding your role have lots
of great information about the position that
you want to be in. And so you've got to talk
to people. And so if you haven't established
that network of people, It's never too late to
start. Now is the perfect time to start. I heard
this the other day. The first, what was the best
time to plant a tree or something? It was 20
years ago. What's the second best time to plant
a tree? It's now. So you can always start. And
I think the easiest way is people who you see
every day, people in your company, someone you
can approach very easily. And then after that,
LinkedIn is God's gift to networking. It's really
connect with people you're already connected
with, but it's also easy to get introductions
and that sort of thing. And it's really, people
are always open to someone coming to you and
saying, hey, I could use some advice. It's really
not, I guess there are probably exceptions to
that, but most everybody loves to do that. They
love, you're really valuing and honoring their
knowledge and their experience by doing that.
And people like to help. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely.
I know when I was climbing the corporate ladder,
I always had a very good feeling of what I did,
but I knew intimately what my boss did. And I
knew a little bit about what his boss did because
I was always looking one to two places above
me, but that's me. I'm one of those people. I'm
okay. I'm happy now, but I want that position
and I go on. But what you said, but. building
the network, and it's never too late to start.
And you were so right when you said LinkedIn,
because you have your basic network that you
deal with. You connect with them on LinkedIn.
And I just gave this to one of my coaching students.
I said, you know what? You have to give them
a little piece of something. You're a problem
solver, okay? So you have to go after... let's
say a person, but give them something of value.
If you're constantly giving them something of
value, you'll be seeing that much more. Enough
about me. Let's go on to the next question. Can
you share a story where a single relationship
or connection helped someone accelerate their
career in under 90 days? Yes, absolutely. This
was I'll give you an example of this is my own
example of and this is well under 90 days. So
I actually there's a book called Phil Terry has
is it's about the the job search councils. It's
basically about not networking alone. So like
when you go out on your job search, it can be
a really lonely experience. And if you don't
have someone there to support you. And so. There's
a whole framework to it. You might be familiar
with it, but you find other people who are in
that situation and then you start interviewing
people and you start asking what can they, you
just start asking about the role. You're learning
more about that. And so you're not just rushing
into a job search. But what happened with me
is I read this book and one of the suggestions
in it was, can, you know, Can you find the role
that you want in your current job? And so I said,
that seems a lot easier. Why don't I try that?
Just try that first. And then I can go through
all of this whole process and form a council
and start a really extensive networking. And
I went to my boss and I said, I'm really, I need
to get to this next level. I've got that. Talked
about life circumstances. I need to get to a
different level of money, but it's also the right
time for me in my career. I need to take on more
responsibility. And he said at the time he was
reporting to the CEO and he said, let me talk
to him. And we had a long conversation. They
met at the bar that evening. And then later that
night, they came to me. It's like, we're going
to make it work out. Basically, I asked for the
role I wanted. And there was a strong element
of timing in that. But that's how close you might
be. You might think, I might have to leave my
job. It might be six to 12 months. But it could
be that close. Chances are, that's a more rare
circumstance. But three months is completely
realistic. And I've seen that multiple times.
Yes, very realistic. And again, going up the
corporate ladder, as you said, timing has to
be right. For somebody within the same job or
same company, timing has to be right. If it's
not, you can do that whole search thing. But
take it like what you said. You have to take
the shot, explain to your boss or something that
this is what you need. And he made it work for
you. So you had that relationship with your boss,
you had that relationship with the company, and
obviously you were good at what you did, otherwise
they wouldn't even have given you the time of
day. So all of that has to come into play. Okay,
so you say brainstorming doesn't work. What's
a more effective way to tap into the power of
people when generating ideas? Yeah, and to answer
that, we have to think about why it doesn't work.
There's a fascinating history on that. There's
a man named Alex Osborne. And so if you've ever
watched the Madman series, think of Don Draper.
That was him, his master of the universe, Madison
Avenue King in the 1940s, 30s, 40s. And he had
developed these techniques in his agencies where
he actually. He's credited with inventing brainstorming
where imagine like the madman office and smoke
is swirling. Maybe they're having scotches and
they're just throwing out ideas. And the ideas
is like for the wilder and the more spontaneous
this whole exercise is, the more creative and
fruitful the ideas become. And it's an extremely
attractive. idea. And it's it has just gotten
so embedded in our culture, minus the smoke and
scotch anymore. But but I can't tell you how
many brainstorming sessions I've been in my entire
life. And the only catch at it is that they've
been studying this in business schools for 40
years. And study after study proved that it doesn't
work. It's suboptimal. And one of the reasons
is because roughly half of the people in any
given room are introverts. And introverts don't
do their best thinking out loud. They're actually
doing their best thinking alone, given the time
and the exercise. And that's where a lot of the
creativity comes up. And so half of your people
are freezing up and getting overstimulated and
crowded out from thinking their best in that
situation. And then, you know, so it's just suboptimal
in that way. So how do you solve that? What has
been shown to work really well is to give people
homework assignments. So they can go off in and
come up with ideas on their own terms, on their
best, and then they come in and present them.
And so the group activity is triage, evaluation,
augmentation. There is an element of group discussion,
but it's starting with much more fertile initial
sets of ideas. And that actually works for extroverts
too. That's why it really is an optimal solution.
That sounds like a really good idea. And it sounds
like it's a very good idea of something that
if all you've done is brainstorming, when you
introduce this idea, it's actually a little more
clear for what you can accomplish and your opinions
or whatever else that you're giving to the mass,
whoever's in the brainstorming session. You're
giving a lot more to it than just the ideas that
are just coming off your head. There's a lot
more thinking involved. So that's very good.
Okay, so what's the difference between being
seen as a go -to person versus just being liked
in the workplace? And how does networking influence
that perception? Yeah, that's a great question.
First of all, I think a key part, and I talk
about introverts and introversion, but I think
this has got to go for everybody. A key part
of networking is establishing personal contact.
And many people are good at that. Introverts
are great one -on -one. And if you're an introvert,
you can do this as well as anyone. It's just
grab time with people who are peers. in other
roles and functions around the organization.
And there has to be, I think, to make this really
effective, you want to establish a personal level
of connection as well as a professional. And
what I've always done is I think about who are
really critical people to my role in the organization
to get things done. And for me, I've always worked
in product management. And so I need to know
people in marketing. I need to know key people
in sales. I don't need to know everyone important
in engineering, but really, and in finance as
well. It's really all the way across the company.
But I think you can do this for whatever role
you're in. Maybe you don't work with everyone
in the company, but if you understand who those
key people are, then you can establish that relationship.
And maybe you only need to talk to them once
every three months or some people you want to
talk to monthly. But when you sit down and talk
to them, And you understand what's really important
to them. What do they care about? And then you
can think about how can you help them? And you
offer that up and then you follow through. And
so what that does is it establishes trust. And
you can think of that as currency. This is you're
building up a wealth of trust in your network
within your company. And so then that person,
when they have an issue, they're going to come
and reach out to you and talk to you because
they know that they start to see, especially
over time, that they can count on you to help
them out. And that flows in both directions.
And so that's really how you get seen. And you
actually are someone who can get things done
around the organization and not just a pleasant
person in a room. You hit on so many points that
I can just talk for an hour just from the point
that you just made. That's how important they
are. With networking, there's a mantra, okay?
There's know you, you trust you, they'll do business
with you. Now, know you, if you're just dealing
with people in the company, they see your face,
they know you. Like you, that narrows down just
a little bit because not everybody's going to
like you, but that trust factor is so crucial
that it is a currency. And whenever I go into
a situation like that, I remember a word called
F -O -R -M. Family, occupation, recreation, and
a message. Because I can talk to the person on
any level. Their family, their husband, wife,
sister, brother, son, daughter, whatever. Their
occupation, that's your work. You can talk to
them. Recreation, what does he like to do? Does
he like to go boating? Does he ski? Whatever.
And talk about that. So if you talk about anything
but business and just keep it that conversation,
you'll be remembered. And in the hallway or on
the phone or in a meeting, they'll always know
you and wave to say, hello, how you doing? And
strike a little conversation with you. So I can't
go through all the points that you made, but
that trust factor is so important. It is like
a currency. Very good. Yeah. One thing I just
add to that is you got to really care. I can
imagine people who are in the listening business.
Okay. I got the, I have asked the family and
the recreation is like, honestly, this is what
makes worth really me, your work really meaningful
are these relationships. And if I would encourage
anyone, if you're feeling some dissatisfaction
at work, this is a rich source of satisfaction
in your work and adds a lot of meaning to what
you do. Authenticity. That's the number one thing.
You have to be authentic. You can't just be superficial
and say, okay, I have to know you. I have to
like your family. Your wife, what does she do?
You can't be phony. You can't be a phony. It's
got to be authentic. So yes, you're absolutely
right. Interruptions are everywhere. How can
leaders stay connected to people while protecting
their time and energy? Let's live that day to
day. I wish I found a surefire solution for that.
Do you think as a leader, that's part of your
job is that your team isn't going to get things
done unless you're out there actively watching
to reduce the interruptions on them? And probably
public enemy number one is the meeting. And as
a leader, you have a lot of control over that.
And in something, maybe it's my workplace or
the workplaces I've ever been. But and I think
Zoom and pandemic have something to do with this.
But just meetings, they will fill your entire
day if you don't guard against it. There's a
variety of tactics. I've never seen anything
work permanently, but I would just say maybe
it's just like weeds. You have to always be tending
to your calendar and making sure there's critical
time for you, but even more importantly, critical
time for your team to get their work done because
it's really an unfair expectation that everyone's
going to work every night, every weekend to make
up for it. That's keeping that work -life balance.
It's very important. I know on my calendar, I
have a set two hours for the day that I don't
allow any meetings. I have to get my work done.
I don't always get it done in two hours, but
it's true that you have to just take a little
bit of time of your day so you can rethink and
get your work done as well as go to all meetings.
And that's one of the things in corporate world,
everything's a meeting. We have to meet for this,
meet for that. No time for the work. Okay. So
how do you create networking moments in environments
where everyone is distracted, busy, or siloed?
That's right. And remote. And a lot of us, I
think a very large percentage of us are still
remote. And so there's always a meeting or a
chat message or an email to be processing. And
I think it's just a commitment and maybe setting
goals for the week. I think I was talking about
earlier about who is in your network within your
company. And you can bake that in by scheduling
recurring meetings. So it's just on the calendar
every. Every month I talk to this person. Some
people who are more critical, you might talk
to them weekly. Just grab that 15 minutes. If
you don't have anything to talk to, you can cancel
it and approach them, talk to them about it.
Look, I'd love to make sure that we stay in contact.
This relationship is super valuable to me. It's
fun to talk to you. Let's just have something
on the calendar. What's a good time for you?
And then I think widening your circle outside
of your company. And so this is where I've fallen
down in the past. This is something that I'm
still developing in myself, which is maintaining
my professional network outside of work. And
it's the same thing, but maybe the timeframes
are just longer. Every six months or every year,
make sure you talk to someone. I know people
do the birthday thing. I'm curious your opinion
about that. It's funny. I don't do that myself,
but I always love it when someone sends me a
text on the birthday. I was like, oh, that's
nice. I see what you're doing and I appreciate
it. And something, it's nice. I come from corporate
and the mortgage field and everything else. And
I did it when we're still using folders and not
electronic folders. But inside of every folder,
I had all of the information. It was the husband,
all the wife's information, the birthdays, the
children's birthdays. And I used to put it all
on my calendar and I used to send them a card.
when it was a birthday. And that was a lot of
cards, but that was the time of writing cards
and not sending a text message. But now it's
so much easier because it's true. Just write
a little text message or an email. And so I agree
that I think that goes a long way because the
person receiving it has that little feeling that
it feels good. Oh, he remembered. Oh, that's
very good. I actually, I have an old boss like
from years ago that I text. Every year, that's
the only time I talk to him, is on his birthday.
And I text him happy birthday and everything
else. He's always appreciative of it. So it's
something you ought to think about. Yeah, agreed.
Okay, so when you're aiming for a promotion,
how important is it to build a strategic internal
network beyond your direct manager? good question
it really depends on your situation because one
of the considerations at the outset is when you're
trying to get your promotion within your company
is will my manager support this be neutral or
try to undermine my desire to do that. And so
the example I gave earlier, I had a strong relationship
with my supervisor and he was supportive. I had
a feeling he would be neutral, at worst neutral
to that. And it turns out he was very supportive.
And so I have. been in situations in my career
and advised people in situations where their
boss is not going to be supportive of it or might
be working against them. And so then that's,
I think, where your question was headed at, where
you really do need to develop relationships with
your boss's peers at best, even better with their
boss or people at a higher level. And there are
probably some good ways to do that. Some things
that I've tried, it's people in the hallways
and just start asking questions. And then that
can, once you establish a little bit of rapport
and contact, then that creates some space for
you to say, oh, can I put some time on your calendar?
I have a few questions. And then it's similar
to what I was talking about before in your framework.
Know you, trust you. You want to get to that
trust you part. And then at a certain point,
if you do have a good enough relationship with
a peer where you might need to maneuver around
your supervisor, then you have people who believe
in you and who can pass the message along or
up. And I think sometimes it's not that you want
to leapfrog your boss or something, but it's
really about what are the opportunities? Are
there opportunities that you see for me? that
are maybe in a different department where could
you see me fitting in or doing something here
so those are some ideas you know it's very good
and i don't know how many people right now are
going to the in that position going to a going
to an office where people are milling around
and speaking with one another but if they have
that image of passing the person in the hall
saying i've got a question for you Make it an
important question, of course. But if you do
that once or twice, then you can move to, can
I set some time on your calendar? Because I have
a few questions. And if you've approached him
or her a few times in the hallway, then say,
oh, that's Greg. Oh, that's right. Sure, of course.
I'll make a few half an hour my calendar. And
then that's the way that you start. And that's
the way that you get all those other people involved.
That's a very good way. And I hope anybody who's
listening is paying attention because that's
a very good way. If your supervisor isn't always
on your side, they may work against you, which
a lot may feel. This is a way to go around that,
okay, without you feeling like you're backstabbing.
So that's very good. What are some underrated
networking moves professionals can make inside
their own companies? We basically just discovered
that. But do you have another? Inside the companies,
just attend the social events when they're there.
And sometimes if you're remote, sometimes they
have remote social events, meetings about any
kind of roundtable discussion. type of group
activity that's happening i've been fortunate
in recent years to have while the company is
has a lot it's really a hybrid kind of company
a lot of the company is distributed but we do
happen to have a local office and so it's making
use of that space to to have the old -fashioned
milling around and those discussions and And
I do have to come back to my area of interest
for introverts, and that can be more challenging.
And there are ways of doing that in concentrated
ways that maintain your energy and are authentic
to you. And it's really the other element is
a motivation. If you understand that, this is
really important. And if you want to accomplish
something, you want a promotion, you want to
just be more effective in your job. This is a
really critical piece. Those personal relationships
help you so much. Absolutely. Absolutely. OK,
what do top performers do differently in terms
of relationship building and visibility that
sets them up for fast track success? Yeah, I
think it's just the element of, I guess, a big
part of it that I didn't realize early in my
career. I intuitively found my way into developing
and cultivating relationships. And I intuitively,
I naturally underplay my successes, my accomplishments,
because I think this is common to a lot of introverts.
We don't love self -promotion. And I've since
come around to ways of understanding that that
it's there are ways of providing visibility into
the good work you're doing, and especially as
a leader to the work that your team is doing.
And so it's really you really need to devote
a lot of time to or just. I guess it's not a
lot of time, but just make sure that it happens.
You need to make sure that you're communicating
about your success and not just to your boss,
but announcing them in different places, because
it's really people should know about the good
work that you and your teams and things are doing.
One, so they. that gives them more confidence
in you. But two, it raises, it gives them the
opportunity to ask questions and improve the
way the organization functions. That's good.
I'm listening to you and I'm almost imagining
your ladder, the ladder that you've climbed and
everything else and all your successes. What
mistake have you made that you can remember?
Probably a big mistake. And how did you overcome
it? Yeah. One doozy mistake from earlier in my
career was at a certain time in my career, I
was leading customer projects. And in the software
industry and enterprise, we'll work with a large
company, a much larger company. I work in smaller
companies that works with. larger companies.
And so I get like all of the, the experience
of working in large corporate without the day
-to -day, some of those minuses, but it's, but
we work with very large companies and we had
a software rollout where the schedule kept falling
behind because they're like, boy, there's, it's
really, we had to import the data into our software.
And then we had to stand up at the time was like
a forum software. And boy, it's really taking
a long time to import this. It's never taken
this long to import all this data before. Engineers
are working really hard. We were really straining
to get all this data into our system. It never
occurred to me, and finally we did it. All the
data was in, and this was after a delay of two,
three weeks. It never occurred to me that just
in the same way that it was so hard to get data
into our system, when you turn the site live,
it might struggle to actually work like we expected
it to. So we launched. It was a spectacular failure.
The software seized up. We had to turn it off.
It was because and this was I was leading the
charge on this and I froze up. And so I learned
a lot. Some people can step in and help me. And
we got through this, the whole thing. But I learned
so many things in from that one. That one experience
and one, some are just experience of early warning
signs and preparation and testing and that sort
of thing, because we had some maturity issues
in the company. But two is really about that
when a situation comes up, it's not about you
and your personal worth. It's not about the job
you did, that there's always an opportunity to
lead, even if. There's been a colossal failure
and there's egg on your face and everything.
It's really about what do you do next? What's
the next thing in the moment? And it's not about
this gigantic judgment on the mistakes that you
made. So there's always an opportunity to move
forward and lead. Absolutely. And I've learned,
listen, I've been a small business owner. I've
worked through corporate. And one thing I've
learned. You learn so much more from your failures
than you do of your successes. And because the
lessons you learn from your failures really stick
with you because you say, I'm never going to
do that again. All right. But I always felt that
you learn more from your failures than your successes.
OK, so let's bring this podcast full circle.
What's one mindset shift that helps people stop
networking passively and start building influence
intentionally? There's a couple of ways I could
go on this. I'll pick one. I'll pick Elaine.
I think it's what's in it for you. It's really
about forming that connection, that next relationship.
And I just value it so much more now than I did
earlier in the career. I guess it felt to me,
networking felt like something that I should
do, I had to do. And for whatever reason, I just
had a bad attitude about it. And when you think
about think about the benefit you can have of
making that connection with a person. I if I
go out and have coffee with someone like that,
it's just such a pleasure and such a joy just
to sit down with another human being, especially
today in the land of Zoom and enjoy coffee and
just and have a conversation. And if you can
spend a half hour, 45 minutes, whatever it is,
it's. It just adds a dimension to your life of
human connection that is a shared moment. And
then that sticks with people. So you always have
that in your memory and in the memory of that
other person. And so that's such a gratifying
thing compared to I've got to expand my influence
and as part of this, like a death march to keep
improving your career. I don't know if I've captured
that well in words, but there's a lot of good
in it for you is the mindset shift. Greg, you've
done such a great job with these questions. It's
really unbelievable. I'm so glad that you achieved
the success that you've achieved. If somebody
wanted to get hold of you, what's the best way?
Yeah, thank you. I have my podcast and it's on
Substack. It's called powerandplay .substack
.com. Just all written together. You can also
reach me at powerful introvert. Call one word
there, powerful introvert .substack .com. You
can see all of my podcast episodes and my content
there. Very good. Very good. Great. Thank you
so much for coming on the podcast. You were a
great guest and I hope to talk to you soon. Yeah,
it was great talking to you, Michael. Well, hold
on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let's hear from
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Remember, networking isn't about being perfect.
It's about being present. So take what you've
learned today, get out there and make some meaningful
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