Welcome back to Connections. I'm your host, Michael
Foreman, and today's episode is all about how
to build a business, a reputation, and a legacy
by showing up with purpose and generosity. My
guest is the author of NCG Factor, a powerhouse
framework that stands for networking, connecting,
and giving. He's on a mission to help professionals
stop showing up and throwing up. in sales conversations.
And today, start building authentic relationships
that open doors, close deals, and create real
impact. From mastering LinkedIn the right way
to becoming indispensable in your career or your
personal life and your personal life. We're going
deep on how to sell without selling, connect
without faking it, and lead with value instead
of ego. If you're ready to learn about how to
network like a pro, connect like a human, and
grow your business with intention, you're in
the right place. So let's start. I would like
to welcome Larry Kaufman. He is the author of
the book I just mentioned. Larry, welcome to
the podcast, and give us a little bit about your
background. Michael, thank you. Very nice to
meet you, and I love that East Coast. The way
that you say my last name is not the way that
I introduce myself. I'm Larry Kaufman, but I
like the way you say it better. Great to meet
you. I'm Illinois born, and I've lived here all
my life, actually. And so I would say I am a
salesperson from the time I was in college to
present, even though I'm in leadership. I'm always
a salesperson, but I'm not an in -your -face
salesperson. And I've been in all types of industries.
But I think we are very similar in our approaches
to networking, building relationships. I think
we're going to talk a very similar speak today.
And I would say that if you were to look at me,
I'm a giver, connector. I'm a global speaker,
LinkedIn expert, and a business leader. And I'll
give you a little personal. Married 36 years,
coming up Friday this week. I don't know why
she stays with me, but I'm glad she does. And
I have two children in their 20s. Hopefully they'll
be leaving the home soon. I'm working on that.
But other than that, everything's great. That
sounds terrific. I see a kinship with what we
talk about. I too, by the way, have been married
36 years, two weeks ago. So we're... the same
in that regard. Do you believe that everybody
is a salesperson? Everybody is the face of the
company. I think a lot of things that we do in
general, everyone has to sell, right? You have
to sell yourself in whatever role you're in,
when you interview for a job. And so I think
that whatever capacity, definitely if you're
in a sales role. And sometimes people who are
in a sales role are really not salespeople, right?
We've touched that world. We've worked with salespeople.
Some survive, some don't. It's a hard job. Post
-COVID, even more difficult. But Michael, I would
say everyone is a salesperson in some way. To
meet that significant other, there's a bit of
a sales job. And sometimes you don't close that
deal. No, that's true. That's true. That was
just something that I... When I go on stages,
I do workshops. That's always my first question.
Who in this room is a salesperson? And if everybody
doesn't raise their hand, I say something about
it. But here, let me go into the questions. Let's
kick off with the NCG factor. What inspired it?
And how does networking, connecting, and giving
actually play out in the real world of business?
I think what inspired it was I reflected on my
time back in the college days, right? Back when
I went to college, because I'm very mature, not
old, very mature. Back when I went to college,
I didn't have the internet, right? I didn't have
LinkedIn. I didn't have a cell phone. Everything
was different back then. It was a different way
of life. And back in my college days, it was
about having fun. And I didn't think about serving
on a charity board, a junior board, volunteering.
It was all about Larry. It wasn't about other
people. And I would say that things have changed
a bit today. And so when I, I guess when I go
out today and I get the opportunity to speak
at a university, I'm so excited. Not that I don't
like presenting to senior level salespeople or
CEOs or board members, and I've done all that.
But I love meeting with the college kids because
they really haven't been exposed to networking.
They haven't been exposed to building authentic
relationships. And that's the time I want to
catch them. That's the foundation they could
build that no one taught me about that. And I
want to help them understand LinkedIn. I want
to help them understand networking. The book,
The NCG Factor, is networking, connecting, giving.
But it's a different way to network. I believe
the way you and I like to network, right? With
authenticity, building relationships, not this
social exchange of business cards. I think we're
trying to get to know people, right? We're not
just, how many people can I meet at this event?
I was like that. I was that guy. I love going
to events. And I just loaded my pockets with
business cards. And if I came home empty, I thought,
wow, this is great. Empty of mine and filled
with other cards. It was a big win. That wasn't
a big win. I wasn't getting to know people. And
the connecting aspect, to me, I meet you today
and I go, I know you were in the Air Force before.
There was a friend of mine. I think you guys
would align. He thinks like you. He was actually
former Air Force. I think that way when I get
to know people and I'll put people that have
things in common. Or just they just have that
match where I think they get along, they'd have
a great conversation, potentially build a nice
relationship. And the giving really is it's giving
of your knowledge like you do that in your talks,
your podcast. Giving isn't always about donating
to a charity or about how much money you donate.
It's giving of yourself and your time and your
knowledge. That's the way I think. That's it's
very true. And you hit on so many points that
I wouldn't have time to discuss all of them.
But do you believe I believe. OK, let me start
that way. I believe that ever since the pandemic,
we have everybody relies on Zoom on the cell
phones. They forgot about this personal touch.
And really, the days of building your customer
list is gone. And the day of building relationships
is here. So when I used to go, I was part of
a mortgage company. I used to come home with
a shoebox filled with business cards. They said,
yeah, look how good I did. Did I do good? No,
I didn't. Because I didn't have a relationship
with any of them. So that's what I feel is the
difference. Okay. So you talk about building
authentic relationships. In a world full of noise
and automation, how does someone actually do
that without sounding scripted or salesy? I think
it's got to be one of those things where you
really do want to build a relationship. When
I meet with people, they know right away that
I'm authentic, that I'm not there to... You know,
we talked, you said it earlier, show up and throw
up. And too many people do that. And so I'd rather
actually get to know the other person. I do some
matchmaking too. And it works the same way in
relationships, personal relationships. If you
show up and throw up and you're not interested
in the other person, you can't build a relationship.
And I do think we are much more compassionate
post -COVID. And we have to be more authentic.
How do you do that? Look, some people, I'll be
honest with you, some people... may struggle
some people just that's just who they are i can
we can only do so much to guide people there
it's got to come from the heart and you're going
to know you're going to be able to pick out that
person that they're trying to be a little authentic
but they can't wait to sell you their product
or service they're like so tell me where you're
from oh air force that's great by the way let
me tell you what i represent I will talk to people
and I could talk to them for an hour and they're
like, Larry, you've asked all about me. I don't
know anything about you. That's the best sales
meeting that you could ever have. Because you
learned about the other person. And you know,
it's interesting when you do that authentically.
And people authentically want to know what you
do and what you represent. And it does come back
around. And if it doesn't, that's fine. Have
another meeting. But you learn so much about
that person. to actually secure that next meeting.
That's right. That's right. When you go to a
networking event or you're meeting somebody,
you go with what's called a servant's heart.
You go there looking to give, not receive. If
everybody was going to go to a networking event
or meet with somebody and they had that in mind,
everything would be beautiful. Because as you
said, what goes around comes around. Or at least
it should. So if you put two people together
and you refer two people, then one of those two
people are going to say, you know what? Larry
referred me. I have to find somebody for Larry.
So what goes around does come around. But you
shouldn't expect it. Never expect it. Don't expect
it. Don't expect it. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Okay. So you've said that we should stop showing
up and throwing up when it comes to selling.
What are some of the biggest mistakes professionals
make when networking or pitching themselves?
One of the biggest mistakes is they do show up
and throw up, which really means it's all about
themselves. And so I met with an executive virtually,
had a really nice 45 -minute meeting. It was
over 43 minutes all about him. And it was challenging,
but I'm a giver. I'm a good listener. And I'd
ask questions, and he didn't know anything about
me, not where I lived, if I had a relationship
with anybody, if I had kids. What I did for a
living, he knew nothing. I think I squeezed something
in, and what I squeezed in was one ask that I
have, can you read my book? And I have a chapter
on takers never win. And he reached back out
and wanted to have another meeting. And so we
had that meeting and I said, what do you want
to talk about? He said, I wanted to talk about
you. Because I realized that reading your book,
it was all about me. And I want to make it about
you. And showing up and throwing up and some
of the mistakes people make is they are too eager
to talk about. themselves. And I try to counsel
people. It's better if I can learn all about
Michael and what you do, what you personally,
where you're from, right? You can only go so
deep, right? You don't want to get too personal,
but hey, where'd you grow up? What'd you do?
And guess what? On LinkedIn, everything's kind
of fair game if it's out there. Hey, I saw this
on LinkedIn. Can you tell me more about this?
Or the great thing, you have AI, so you can pull
up information about people. It's scraping. Maybe
double check. Hey, I saw this about you. It just
came up when I did some research. You better
hope it truly is about that person because it
says I'm a grandmaster chess champion, but that's
the wrong Larry Kaufman. So be careful. I'm not
that good at chess. But I think the mistake is
we don't ask and listen. We just want to sell.
Stop selling and start learning about the other
person. personally, professionally, and start
to build a rapport and relationship, everything's
going to fall into place. So that's what I recommend.
I agree. I agree. And every time what I use personally
is a word, F -O -R -M. That keeps me in line.
It's family, occupation, recreation, and a message.
So when I'm talking to Larry, I can bring up
family. what you do for a living, what you like
to do, any of the above. And you'll start talking
about it because when you start talking about
yourself or things you enjoy besides work, you
really start talking about it. And then your
level of trust is going up and that barrier is
coming down. Know you like you trust you will
do business with you. So know you, well, of course,
you're a great guy. Like you, we're going to
narrow it down just a little bit, all right?
Know you, like you, and then trust you. That
trust is such a crucial factor that you have
to build that trust. And the only way you're
going to do it is I'm going to have you talk
about yourself. So that's it. I like that. Okay.
So how do you balance giving without expecting
while being strategic in business? Where's the
sweet spot between generosity and growth? Look,
there's so many hours a day. I'm in a corporate
leadership role. So that's my primary focus.
But I feel that the giving portion of what I
do each week. It completes me, makes me feel
good about myself. But sometimes that giving
is with a prospective client of ours. My staff
will come to me and ask me to help some of their
prospective clients. And maybe it's a spouse,
significant other, a child. It could be a career
transition. It could be something else. And so
that's some of that balancing act, right? That's
tying into the business. And I'm still getting
to give and help people. So I think when I do
presentations, my presentations aren't geared
all towards sales. It's really everything. But
it's the main theme is building those relationships.
And so there is a fine balancing act. And so,
yeah, if I give every day and I don't do my job,
I have a lot more time to give because I want
to have my job. But I try to find ways to be
giving. during that course of each day with what
I do that may be business related. It may be
for my staff, for clients, it may be for other
peers in the company. Don't you rather be known
as a person who gives than a person who's always
trying to receive, right? Oh, yeah, totally.
Absolutely. So that should be first and foremost
on the person's mind. Say, look, I want to be
known. I want to be known as a connector. I want
to be known because that's what I do. Every week
I have at least two people that I, or two instances
that I put two people together. This person needs,
this person needs that. Larry meet Keith, Keith
meet Larry. He does this, you do this. I feel
it's a great connection and I back away, right?
And I let them do it. But I have to, if I do
that at least twice a week, I know that I am
connecting and I'm giving. And I don't ask for
anything in return. So it's just a way that you
look at things. You're like my twin. Yeah. Okay.
So tell us about a time when one powerful connection
changed everything for you and what made that
connection possible. Really, there's so many.
I think one powerful connection. We'll see how
much time we have to talk about this. One powerful
connection that changed a lot for me was actually
with an executive I met in transition was a CEO.
And I met him in a coffee shop. It was actually
with a gentleman who owned an executive search
firm. And he said, hey, Larry, meet Mike. And
he said, Mike is looking for his next CEO role.
I just met him. And we weren't sitting down with
him. I just met him in passing. I said, Mike,
nice to meet you. And I said, Mike, I'd love
to get together separately to see how I could
help you. And I know you would do the same thing,
but not everyone thinks that way. But that's
the way that I do. Mike and I met a couple of
weeks later and we had a really good meeting,
but I didn't know companies looking for a CEO.
And so I tucked that away because sometimes you
can't make that connection for someone right
away. You tuck it away and you think about it.
It may come up at another time. I had met a founder
of a company, a CEO of a company. It was like
$100 million company. And we were talking and
he said, I have this business issue. And it's
got in my realm of expertise, but something that
the CEO, when we got together, this other CEO
looking for a job, he said something in our meeting.
And it was a trigger. When I was meeting with
this founder of this company, I said, you know
what? I said, John, I'm going to connect you
with my friend Mike. And I think he could deal
with this issue with his expertise. I think he's
going to be able to help you out. And I connected
them. So they met and they had a really good
meeting because Mike called me and said, our
meeting went for six hours. We had a great meeting
and we ended up going to his company. We looked
at his books. And next thing I know, Mike was
hired to be the president of his $100 million
company. So that gentleman's the CEO. Mike becomes
the president. Well, Mike became a friend. He
became a client. And Mike went through some change
during that process and was going through a divorce.
And I was helping someone network who was in
private equity formally. who was in human resources,
and that person was widowed. Actually, I know
I put the two of them together to network, and
I thought there was something there, and those
two ended up in a relationship. And so Mike has
continued to be a long -term friend. That was
transformational for me. I helped someone that
was in transition. land a job that went from
running a $10, $15 million company to $100 million
company that became a $200 million company. And
that's why he went back into transition. And
then I connected him into a relationship. Long
story, Michael, but great story. It really was.
It was really a great story. What does it mean
to be indispensable? in today's business world?
And how does that tie into the way that we build
and sustain relationships? So this is what I
believe. You sell someone a product or a service,
and there are competitors for your product or
service. And they come to you for the things
they need related to what you've sold them. That's
great. But if they come to you for something
else outside of what you sell and market, and
they go, Michael, can you help me? My son is
looking to get into medical school and is having
trouble getting into this medical school. Could
you help me out? Because I did help someone advance
the process where they couldn't get any responsiveness,
couldn't get into this medical school. So what
I'm trying to say is if the company in person,
the decision maker you have made a sale to, only
calls you, reaches out to you for what you sell
and market, you're not building a deep relationship.
You're not becoming indispensable. But if you
let them know up front, look, you know what?
If you need anything outside of what I do, I
want you to think of me as an indispensable relationship
of yours. So it could be someone's in transition,
any kind of need. It doesn't have to fall in
line with what I do. And when you have those
clients starting to call you and reach out to
you for other things, you're deepening the relationship
and you're becoming more indispensable. And so
when that competing force knocks on the door
to take the business away and they go, wait a
minute, I work with Larry Kaufman. He helped
my wife get a job. He helped my brother get a
job. He helped us find a home over here. He did
this. He got us. I couldn't find a good plumber,
whatever it is. Larry is like my utility, indispensable
relationship. I don't care what you tell me.
I'm not leaving Larry and his company. Become
indispensable. And so indispensable to me is
you are able to communicate that up front. I
do that all the time just myself because I'm
not in a sales role, in a leadership role. But
the people I network with, I want them to know
I'm indispensable. How can I be helpful to you
and those around you? But I do that for my staff
and team, and they know to come to me. And so
I help them to become indispensable. You don't
have to do it alone. You can have the Michaels
and the Larrys who are connected and connectors
to help you to become indispensable. Very good.
Very good. Because I suppose indispensable. You
can look at it from the other side because those
people become very loyal to you. And really,
price point doesn't come into it because you're
not asking for money. You're not asking for anything.
You're only giving your time and your expertise
and knowledge. And why not? Why not come back
to you and say, hey, Larry, you know what? I
have this problem. Could you help me? Yes. Either
you can find somebody to help them or you can
help them. But the answer to that person would
be yes. So they always think to come back to
you. Okay. So a lot of people struggle with networking
on platforms like LinkedIn. What's one tip from
LinkedIn Larry that can help people cut through
the noise and connect with purpose? Look, on
LinkedIn. The people you're meeting with or want
to meet with that are second degree to you, but
the decision maker you'd like to meet with. I
think it's important to see, do you have any
shared connections that could be the pathway
to that person? You never know with your shared
connections how people know people. And I had
one that someone on my staff was trying to meet
an executive. And I saw a lot of connections
I shared in common with that executive. And so
I said, let me check with my network and see
if I can help to arrange an introduction or meeting
for us with this executive at this big organization.
I reached out to one person I knew, only one.
I could have reached out to a lot. I just took
a stab, reached out to one person. His name is
Matt. And I said, Matt, how do you know Jeff
at this company? He said, I'm interested in getting
introduced. He said, oh, I went to college with
him. We were roommates. We're friends today.
We travel as couples. But I'm not going to introduce
you. I said, what? What's going on? He said,
I'm going to call him and tell him he has to
meet with you. How powerful is that, right? So
I think figuring out who the shared connections
are. But I also think a lot of people don't come
prepared to a meeting and look at someone's profile.
And I'm talking about all aspects of the profile.
And some profiles are great. like yours, and
some are not as great. But sometimes there's
something that seems insignificant, but can be
significant. So if I looked at someone's profile,
nothing was there. I didn't have any shared connections.
But the one thing I saw under the university
said marching band. Most would ignore that, but
I would say, Michael, and I know this is not
on yours, Michael, what instrument did you play
when you were in the marching band? And you would
be like, What are you talking about? How did
you know I was in the marching band? Because
you probably put that in a long time ago when
you signed up on LinkedIn, didn't even think
about it because no one else is asking. But Larry
asked, and you're never going to forget me. Absolutely.
Absolutely. And it's those little things that
you'll never be forgotten, especially with. the
follow -up. We're not even going to get into
the follow -up because I feel that the follow
-up with somebody is more important than actually
even meeting them. But you do that something
special, that something so different than everybody
else, that of course they're going to remember
you. And the way that you follow up with them,
you always keep our, you're being top of mind.
And I hate saying that top of mind, but that's
the only thing I can think of right now. But
if you do that one thing, you'll always be remembered
for that. It's important. Okay. So for someone
just starting to grow their network, what's better?
Deepening a few relationships or casting a wide
net? We've probably covered this already, but
let's have it. Casting a wide net is fine. For
myself, look, I have roughly just under 30 ,000
LinkedIn connections. So people are looking at
me and Larry's saying, don't cast such a wide
net, right? I'll tell people, should you have
10 ,000 connections? I think you should have
a strong network of people you trust, even on
a LinkedIn. Depending upon your tenure in the
business world, maybe it's 500, maybe it's 1
,000, maybe it's 2 ,000. I'm not saying you'll
know 2 ,000. exceptionally well, but enough to
where they take a call, take a meeting with you.
I think what you want to have is that know, like,
trust relationship base. And so I think kind
of keep it tight. In my book, I call it inner
circle, outer circle. Your inner circle, yeah,
they're your family. Sometimes your family really
should be in your outer circle, but inner circle,
the people that you really trust that will go
the distance for you. And those could be people
that they can be your clients. I have clients
today that we have with a firm that introduced
to my staff that were clients of mine in the
day. They're my inner circle, right? But I do
have friends and family. So I think keep it tight.
Keep it tight. You're not going to have 5 ,000
in your inner circle unless you're just amazing.
I haven't seen that. It's also a little difficult
to keep up. Your inner circle you want to communicate
with a little bit more often, but 5 ,000, 2 ,000,
even 1 ,000. It's very hard to stay up with that.
So you really have to be careful on who you think
is in your inner circle. You're right. But that's
very good. Okay. How does being a strong networker
carry over into your personal life with your
family, friends, and your community? I think
what happens on when you get to the family side
and I'm a strong networker connector, I do get
our friends sending me their kids. And I had
someone who was looking to get back into the
dating scene after widowed. And it's like, Hey,
could you have Larry fix me up? I'm ready. And
so I, it's good and bad, but it's nice that.
I become that go -to, that I built that reputation.
And after I wrote the book, I did go on Facebook,
now Meta, and I'm connected to friends there.
And so they know, hey, let's ask Larry. So I
branded myself in the business world and carried
it over into my personal world. That's good.
That's good. And that really, really answers
it. Okay, so let's bring this podcast full circle.
And if you could leave listeners with one mindset
shift that would make their networking more meaningful
and profitable, what would it be? Let's just
say, okay, mindset shift is don't make it about
you. Make it about the other person. And I'll
share that with a question. And it sounds crazy.
But I've done so many presentations and like
you'll ask questions and I ask questions. And
the one takeaway that people have told me quite
a bit was these five words that they're not asking
enough of or at all is how can I help you? And
I can't tell you how many conversations I have
with people. And I'm like, how can I help you?
And sometimes I know because I've asked so many
questions, I already know how I'm going to help
them. Now it turns out I maybe add an extra word
to like, how else can I help you? And no, I'm
good. And I'm almost waiting for it just to see.
They come back and go, Larry, I'm great. You're
going to do X, Y, and Z for me. How can I help
you? I can tell you it's probably one out of
10 people I'll talk to that will say that. And
so if I could get more people to think that way
and just ask the question. And some people are
like, I don't know how I could help people. I
don't have a big network. You know what? It's
just throwing it out there. Asking that question
is more than enough that just people will say
it. Everyone wants to take you up on it. It's
rare. And if someone does say something, you
can try. It's rare that people ask, but I would
love to see more people ask, how can I help you?
Every day. That's great. And if people would
actually learn to do that, again, that's giving,
not receiving. And if you can, one, I'll leave
you with this. One thing that I say to a person,
whenever I network with him or with a person
or a few people, I always end with, how can I
make you more successful? How can I make a difference?
How can I be a great referral source for you?
And I usually say that before I even tell them
what I do. And they're usually so blown away
by it. They're like, I don't even know what you
do yet. That's right. Just let me know. And then
I'll go into the whole thing with the business
cards and everything and writing on the back
of the business card what to do and everything
else. But I always let them know I am here for
you. So what can I do to help you? I love it.
Larry, this has been absolutely great. Just the
way I thought it was going to go. I just wish
we had another hour because I have another 20
questions to ask you. But if anybody would like
to get hold of you, either to be coached or to
just to speak with you and get your feelings
or philosophy on networking, how could they do
it? So definitely on LinkedIn. So Larry Kaufman
in Chicago, all caps. So you can find me there.
I would say check me out on Amazon with the NCG
Factor. That's a way to get to know me. And guess
what? I know it sounds crazy, but in my book,
I put my contact information. So I know I get
a lot of crazy people coming after me, but hopefully
some normal people will come after me too. Hopefully,
hopefully. Larry, I can't begin to thank you
enough for coming on my podcast. I think you
are a wealth of knowledge, and I'm so glad to
see there's somebody else out there, such as
myself, that believes in your NCJ. Thank you
very much. Nice to meet you. Thanks for having
me on your podcast, Michael, and nice to meet
someone that thinks the way that I do. Well.
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the hands of a proven professional, Henry Kaplan.
Henry is a global real estate agent with Century
21, celebrating his 41st year in business. No
matter where you're moving, Henry has the right
connections for you. You can contact Henry at
561 -427 -4888. They provide prevention training
programs for children, teens, and adults. To
learn more, go to revvedupkids .org. That's R
-E -V -V -E -D -U -P -K -I -D -S dot org. A huge
thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible
insights today. And of course, a big shout out
to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in
and spending your time with us. If you're interested
in my digital courses, being coached, or having
me come and talk to your company, just go to
Michael and fill out the request form. Remember,
networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
being present. So take what you've learned today,
get out there, and make some meaningful connections.
If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't
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