Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building
Profitable Connections. I'm your host, Michael
Foreman, and today we're diving into the intersection
of personal branding, marketing, and authentic
connection. Our guest is a powerhouse who has
lived on both sides of the creative battlefield,
advertising and marketing. She knows what it
means to stand out in a saturated world. why
everyone today is a personal brand, whether they
realize it or not, and how to turn failure into
fuel. From learning to package your services
for success to helping others build visibility
without sacrificing authenticity, this conversation
is full of insight for anyone looking to elevate
their networking game and create more profitable.
purposeful connections. So grab a notebook. This
is one of those episodes you'll want to revisit.
So let's jump in. So I have Rhiannon France,
that is really the expert in both of those fields.
And I would like to introduce her to the podcast
and see what her background is. Rhiannon, how
are you? I'm good. Thank you for today. I'm excited
to talk with you and talk to your audience today.
Okay. I think there's a little bit about your
background. Yeah. So I have worked in corporate
America for 20 ish years. I work specifically
in the big advertising holding companies. So
if you might remember an old TV show called like
Donnie Deutsch, and there was an advertising
agency called Deutsch. I worked at that ad agency.
If you think of like the Mad Men era, I worked
in a specific department called paid media. So
I worked on strategy and how to find audiences
and where they're at, consumption, stuff like
that. But New York, LA, Detroit, I worked on
auto. I worked on entertainment. You name it
in the glamorous world of advertising and both
the positives and the negatives of that corporate
career. Okay, great. That's great. So it really
sounds like you have a lot of experience in the
advertising and marketing fields. So let's delve
right into the podcast. You come from both advertising
and marketing. How do those disciplines approach
networking differently and where do they intersect?
Yeah, it's an interesting question because I
find that a lot of people lump it all together.
There's even... branding, marketing, advertising,
what does that even all mean? And I find that
it's so interesting how nuanced it actually is,
but obviously they all work together. So a nice
sort of way to think about it is your brand is
what you look like, like your values or your
colors or a brand guide. And then it would be
like your mission, your values, what you stand
for. That's an important component of your business.
You want to always be true to those things that
are core to who you are. That would be like your
brand. And that is unique to every single person.
but that would be like your foundational thing
that you stand for then your marketing is how
you're getting the wheels turning of what is
your goals of your business and how do you get
that brand in front of people what does that
message look like and so I like to talk a lot
about packaging and positioning when I talk about
marketing so it's who you're talking to what
are you trying to sell them How are you selling
that? What is that message like? And a lot of
people get confused. I'm just going to talk about
me here. I just, I'm going to talk about me.
The difference is that's not what actually lands
for a buyer. A buyer is coming to you and they
want you to tell them how you're going to fix
their problem. So you're basically. you're basically
a problem solver exactly and so your positioning
and how you market yourself is totally different
than your brand your brand is me maybe you're
you're talking about yourself and it's all about
yourself a lot of people make this mistake they
build a website or they build their social media
talking about me the problem is that's not what
people are gonna buy from you yeah it should
all ladder back into who you are and they want
to resonate and work well with you but your marketing
should be speaking to your audience and how you're
going to solve their problem so that's marketing
and then advertising should be like after that
after you've figured out your branding you've
figured out how you're speaking to people then
you can advertise or maybe you want to do boost
a post on Instagram or you want to do an ad that's
advertising where you take money and you push
out your visibility and I find that a lot of
my clients have come to me for advertising because
that's obviously my background and what I know
and I'll go okay yeah let's talk about your advertising
how much are you boosting posts are you buying
Google AdWords are you doing these things and
leaking money when you haven't done these other
things first. And that's what's been able to
help clients navigate these fields because the
words all sound the same, but they're actually
different things and they need to be done actually
in steps. Wow, very good. I see the difference
now. Okay, so you believe everyone is a personal
brand. How does someone begin to define and position
their intentionality? Yes, I am 100 % of a component
believer that everyone is a personal brand and
more so now, 2025. The latest stat that I heard
said that about 23 to 24 % of current US jobs
have been replaced by ChatGPT. Okay, so nearly
24 % of US jobs have currently been replaced
by ChatGPT. That's a scary number, right? That's
especially for those of us that are business
owners. We are service providers. We're providing
services to people and these robots are taking
our jobs, right? This is an age old industrial
complex, like age old conversation, right? For
the modern day where we sit right now, this is
the opportunity. This is the time to switch and
turn yourself into thinking differently. Because
we have platforms, we have free channels to be
able to develop ourselves into a brand. So how
many people have a Facebook? How many people
have an Instagram? How many people have a LinkedIn?
That is your personal brand. And it's something
that you as a society probably have natively
been doing for years anyway. But we just think
of it as, oh, it's our friends and our family.
It's just these couple core people. But really,
if you want to think about how can I re -add
in? I don't know where to start. Start with your
social media. I love Mel Robbins. Anybody like
Mel Robbins fans, right? Love Mel Robbins. She
has been quoted as saying, your social media
is not for your friends and family. It's for
your business. So leveraging that platform to
be able to speak about the things that you do.
Again, not me. but how you help people and the
solving their pain points and so if you start
to switch yourself and switch your thinking just
a little tweak i'm not talking about like overhaul
everything and you have to hire me to do all
this for you which i would love but you can do
this yourself by thinking of yourself with a
little pivot so pivot yourself into thinking
i'm an expert in start talking about how and
I help people with so just those two little phrases
right there that gives you your LinkedIn headers
your Instagram headers that gives you the things
that you need to be talking about your cue cards
I'm an expert in and I help you with and those
two things right there will give you two little
pivots To start your social media, talking about
that stuff, just getting your voice out there,
talking to your clients about this stuff and
turning yourself into that expert that you are.
You differentiate with the different social media
platforms. Like when I do LinkedIn, that's basically
business. Facebook is more personal. Instagram
is more for my reels and things. So do you differentiate
between the different social medias or do you
put your faith behind one or two specifically?
And that is a very good question. And this is
always changing. So the relevant thing that I
could tell you right now, May 23rd, 2025, when
we're recording this. Mind you, could change
in a couple months. That being said, I think
the fundamental idea of yes, LinkedIn is business
is core to what it is and who the audience is.
Like me, I come from corporate. That's where
all my audience is. And I target my message to
people on LinkedIn. I am speaking to corporate
and ex -corporate experts who are trying to cash
in on their expertise. Right. So there I've just
explained what I do and I've explained how I
help them. And in a short phrase, so LinkedIn
is my primary target and that's, I create content
for LinkedIn. That being said, Instagram is now
become your resume. So people are going to check
your Instagram to be like, visually, is this
expert legit? Are they talking about solving
my problem? and give me examples right so instagram
is your new resume sounds backwards right whereas
linkedin is like your authority so that's where
you want to be leaning into this expertise that
you have speaking business speak but your instagram
is absolutely still a business platform and people
will still look at instagram as a place for a
double check or let me see what this person's
really about facebook i agree with you is primarily
friends and family. It's a bit of an older audience.
Those of us like me, I'm Gen X millennial, like
I'm a cusper. So I definitely was one of the
first people on Facebook. That being said, Facebook
is still there and very relevant for a lot of
my clients because they've been there a long
time. And that's where the people that they know
who might not hire them. but know someone who
wants to hire them. And that's that one piece
that we forget sometimes because we think, I
don't want to be salesy. I don't want to be like
just talking about my business all the time.
But it's not for those people. It's for the people
that they know. So when they... Yeah. No, whenever
I go across the country and I speak on stages
and I go into corporations, I talk about networking,
communication. I'm not talking to... just those
people, but I'm talking to their network of people.
So you always have to keep that in mind. But
in a noisy marketplace, how can professionals
stand out authentically without feeling like
they're selling themselves constantly? Yeah,
that is a hard one. And the first thing I would
say is taking a look at your goals. What is the
goal that you're trying to achieve? And if you
need to be on social media because you think
that will validate help validate your authority
in the space in what you do then spend your time
there however if you are a a local business a
lot of local businesses don't necessarily need
to spend so much time on instagram they don't
need to spend so much time on linkedin they need
to be spending their time like on next door and
yelp and google business is your google business
page optimized are you the first one on there
do you have reviews on there like google maps
right that's where people are searching for what's
near me what are the five star ratings so every
single kind of industry it's hard to answer that
question is where to like as a business think
about where your expertise is and what to lean
into it kind of goes back to your business goals
what are you trying to get foot in the door or
are you trying to get fit calls. So there's different
like levers you can pull on your marketing. But
I think fundamentally, if you just figure out
those statements, the like, I'm an expert in
and I help you with, and you start thinking in
that way of what kind of things you talk about,
whether that's a connection call, whether that's
on your social media, that will help filter.
And then exactly what we were just talking about,
your audience might not be the person you're
selling to. It's the people that they know. And
that takes the pressure off. That's just, okay,
now I can show up and I can say all these things
because it's a human nature thing. It'll start
to relieve some of that pressure. Okay, now in
the same vein, what mistakes do you see people
make when they're trying to market themselves
in a network setting? Oh, like a person to person?
or a person personal person you can do that yeah
i think it's the i help people with part okay
if anyone's ever been to like a bni meeting or
you've been at i mean for me i like to go to
my local chamber of commerce meetings i was a
little like not sure what my little intro statement
was like what is your one sentence that you just
You close this person because you're like, oh,
I know exactly what you do. And I know some people
that would fit that. Because I find that, especially
in local business, Chamber of Commerce, BNI,
things like that, they want to help you. People
want to help you with whatever it is. That's
why they're showing up to these events. People
are very open to that. Your whole idea with a
30 -second elevator speech or pitch that you
were saying. It's not to say the whole pitch.
It's just to get them enough to ask you a question.
Yes. Once they ask you a question, that opens
it up. Yes. That opens you up to everything.
And you can show your expertise, of course. Yeah.
So mine is, for example, I have learned over
time, this did not come easily for me, but is
I help ex -corporate executives build visible
personal brands to cash in on their expertise.
See? Okay. Perfect. That was a longer version,
but I could shorten it. I could tweak it depending
on who I'm talking to. But that was like the
long version of if somebody gives me an intro,
what do you do? And I help professionals network
and communicate more effectively and efficiently,
thus creating more profits. There you go. That's
the exact same thing. Okay. Now, let's get to
a little bit of the failing part of what you're
going through. Can you share a time you failed
at something, be it a pitch, a client, or a connection,
and what you learned that changed now, how you
now show up in business? This is a great question.
One of the acronyms I have been told, and I love
it, is failure is your first attempt in learning.
You fail. it's all a learning experience and
that for me was very hard to change that mindset
shift that it's this is the learning process
so one of the things that i did is i didn't know
what my niche was coming out of corporate so
coming out of corporate and deciding i'm going
to start my own personal branding i'm a branding
agency i'm going to do marketing i'm going to
do advertising like i thought oh i could do i
know i can do all of it But I didn't know what
I liked. I didn't know what kind of clients I
like to work with. I didn't know exactly how
to do it. So my advice I tell everyone, just
jump in, try it out. Introduce yourself to people.
I connected with people. I got intro to people.
I gave people packages at cost. So I wasn't like
I was making a lot up the gate, but like at cost,
I was able to produce for my clients what they
needed. That was gave me the ability to. fail
and learn because they knew this is my first
foray. I'm not making a profit at this. I'm giving
you to the set cost, but I learned a ton. And
I learned, for example, I don't work well with
local businesses. I love you. I love a local
business and I will support you, but I don't
work well with local businesses. It's a different.
For me, people who come from corporate, I come
from corporate. We speak a same language. I don't
know how to describe it. It just is. And so having
worked with people who came from corporate, it
just like things were rocking between us. We
vibed really well together. And it was only through
that process that I failed in that experience.
Now I still launched successful products for
my local business clients and I love them dearly.
That was an experience that I learned from. It
was my first attempt in learning. I failed. And
then I decided to shift and focus specifically
on people who have come from corporate, who just,
we vibe, we speak the same language. You don't
learn or succeed without failure. That's right.
Because if what you're doing and everything's
going along in there, you have yes men standing
around you. You don't learn anything. You just
keep on doing what you're doing. Whether it's
right or wrong, I don't know. But it's always
much better. Now, failure, I've failed. Listen,
I've been a business owner. I've worked corporate.
I've done it all. And I can tell you, we don't
have enough time to tell you about all my failures.
So I know that failure leads to success. That's
all. Okay, so. What strategies have you used
to package your services in a way that resonates
and sells, especially in today's fast -paced,
brand -driven world? I love this question because
this is what I help my clients do. I have learned
how to shift my mindset from trading hours for
dollars to packaging expert. And so from that,
it was a big mindset shift for me coming from
corporate where I thought I have to work for
this hourly rate. I have to be like a freelancer
or fractional. How many people have heard that
word fractional? That's the new buzzword right
now. Everybody wants to be a fractional. And
I'm like, you're literally trading hours for
dollars. You're not selling in a strategic package.
For me, learning how to package and price my
services is what does that intro offer? How am
I getting somebody to take a small bite? get
a big experience of understanding what I do,
and then upselling them on my three -tiered packages.
All of that is completely clear on my website,
revivemarketing .com, fully transparent of what
my pricing is. Now I can up my pricing, I can
change my pricing, this is my pricing as it is
right now, but it's visible. It shows people,
oh my gosh, this is the first step, and this
is the second step. It's very clear and it's
easy to buy. And that's what I try to tell people
all the time. Make it easy for people to buy
from you because they understand what they're
going to get and they understand how to buy from
you. So put your pricing on your website. I have
a lot of debate about that. I hear a lot of hemming
and hawing about it. But let me tell you, the
more clear you are about what it is that you're
selling and how it can be purchased will make
it easier for people to buy you. So that's my...
Biggest advice. Great answer. Great answer. Okay.
When you think about successful networking, what's
more important, visibility or value? And how
do you balance both? Ooh, that's a tough one.
I would go with value. Value is definitely going
to be the differentiator. It's like that. word
authenticity like just be your authentic self
remember that means it's different for everyone
but if you can show your value and you can show
what you can bring to people that's going to
break through that noise of visibility to be
like oh i see what the value is so again if you're
speaking to their pain point and you're offering
a solution with value that's gonna that's gonna
break through and connect faster i agree wholeheartedly
I absolutely agree. Value must come first. Your
visibility, that's your website, that's your
advertising, everything will come afterwards.
But you have to have to show value and you have
to be authentic when you're showing your value.
So all of that will come. And yes, I agree with
you 100%. How has your network influenced the
way you've grown and positioned your business
over time? I like this question. I have a communications
background. I got my master's degree in communication.
So I really love networks and the power of communication
and the theory of networks. So I have always
believed in making sure that I always connect
with people from the beginning. And so I have
built. for example, my LinkedIn connections over
the 20 years and have always been very authentic
and reconnecting. So making sure that my network
is, I don't know, maybe respected. Maybe they
feel like I'm genuine. and that those connections
to me are valuable to me so showing up to networking
events being a part of the ad clubs that i have
here in la being a part of a community of advertisers
in new york and la it's definitely been a component
of who i am and believing that at some point
if i need to pull a lever and ask a friend for
an intro to something like that is a genuine
relationship where i feel that of course they
would of course like if i ask for help then they're
like oh my god how can i help you the hard part
has been for me when somebody asks me how can
i help you i don't know how to answer that has
been a big challenge for me and a big shift in
my mindset going from corporate to being a business
owner because in corporate i knew the answer
i worked for 20 years i knew exactly where i
wanted to go how i want to get there I knew,
but over here and shifting to being a business
owner and the mindset shifts that I've had to
take, it has been challenging to figure out what
do I need help with? I don't know. And so that
I would say has been the hardest part of leveraging
this network because of not knowing what to ask
for, or even when asked for help, what do I even
need? So I can empathize with Those out there
that are going, I have this network. What do
I do? The answer that I have found. So just to
give an answer to that question as well is asking
who, who might, I might be able to help. And
so somebody asks you, how can I help you? Who
do you know that looks like this, that I can
help them? And that is at least been, I have
a sticky note, I have a post -it that I've put
on my computer. So when I have these connection
calls, I'm like, what is the question I'm supposed
to ask? And having that sticky note on my computer
helps me remind me, okay, I'm supposed to ask,
who do you know that looks like this that I could
help? I believe in that so much so that I make
it a point every week that I put two people together.
OK, I belong to the local chamber of commerce.
I belong to a few networking groups. And what
I do is, oh, this person needs a plumber, let's
say. OK, perfect. I know a plumber. I know a
great plumber. I'm going to introduce them like,
Joe, this is Jim. Jim, this is Joe. He's a great
businessman. This person needs help. Have at
it. OK, I let them go. But I make it a point
that I do at least two per week. Because I'm
known as a super connector. Yeah, you are. Okay.
But that's what I do because I feel because networking
as a whole, okay, you have to go into it with
what's called a servant's heart. Give. not receive.
So you once you give it Zig Ziglar, everybody,
you know, talks about this. And they if you give
enough, then we'll come back around to you and
you will receive afterwards. But if you go to
a networking event, or meet with somebody one
on one, what can you do for that person? How
can you make that person more successful? Yeah,
so That's the mindset that I go in with. Okay,
what's one piece of advice you'd give to somebody
who's starting to build a network with the goal
of turning it into a business opportunity? I
feel like you just answered that question. I
think I did. I think I did. But give me your
best shot. Yeah, I think, first of all, If I'm
thinking about building the way that I building
a network for marketing purposes, so for potential
future business is through giving away a freebie.
So on my website, I have a corporate cash out
blueprint and it's revived marketing backslash
cash out. I'm sure it'll be in the show notes
and it's come to my website. It's on the first
button on the website. It's a way to give people
something of value in return for their email.
right it's an value exchange that has built my
email list to then be able to continue giving
value about the things that i do so when i send
an email i always make sure there's some story
in it i make sure i really spend the time i come
up with a story some example some giving value
of something authentic and true to me and an
experience that i had i've how many times been
on So many email lists that are just a sales,
a sale, like five days of sale things that they're
trying to sell. Like I, that's not going to continue
to get your open rates and it's going to get
people to unsubscribe. So I send two emails a
week. One email is the, like a newer story, something
of interest. And then I probably have a call
to action. I have a live event coming up in June,
come join my workshop. And then, but it's not
hit you over the head, right? It has to have
value. because again, I'm building this network.
So I've given you something of value to get onto
my email list. You get something of value in
my stories. And then the second one is my Evergreen
content. You're in my wheelhouse. This is what's
going on. So that's like the bare minimum of
an email. Like again, there's a whole marketing
strategy for email. However, building your email
list, making it valuable to people. And feeling
connected to the network that you have through
your emails is going to be super important to
building whatever business. Let's say somebody
only has 500 people on their email list. What
email list would you suggest that they start
with to send an email out? Yeah, I only have
about 500 on my email list, 550, something like
that. A very specific niche of people and it's
growing. throwing but that's that's a good number
if you have 500 people and you need how many
clients do you need to get to don't be look if
you have 20 people on your email list i am all
about that just start talking about it in fact
20 people is less of a fear than 500 than a thousand
so 20 people feel oh nobody could open this email
and i'm fine i was joking the other day on a
call about how for me my blog was like oh i can
write whatever on my blog website because who's
gonna see that like i'm not pushing advertising
out to that like people really do have to come
to my website and read my blog so it gave me
this platform to just write and start telling
stories and doing stories and then i started
just taking those blogs and putting them in my
email because i'm writing these stories so why
not do that so i just would encourage people
just start writing just start sending emails
at the U .S. laws with all this stuff, canned
spam, people can unsubscribe. They don't want
to be on your email list. Let them unsubscribe.
I was a little hurt at the beginning of people
I would see unsubscribe. What format do you use?
What program do you use to send out those emails?
Oh, great question. So I use a product called
Flowdesk because it's pretty. And I thought that
it looked pretty. It wasn't really out of functionality.
I like something called Kit is very good for
if you're doing a lot of events and you have
a lot of things. There you go. See, if you have
a lot of events, you have things coming up. Kit
is very good because it's, you can do workflows
off of each of your events a lot easier than
Flowdesk. Flowdesk is working on it. Anyway,
MailChimp is free. right for up to i don't know
a lot of subscribers so mailchimp i think 500.
mailchimp is free up until 500. okay yeah so
start with free if that's where you're at don't
pay for stuff until you feel like okay now i'm
ready to up level or now i'm here there just
make it easy for yourself make it a low barrier
of entry and just get started perfect perfect
okay let's bring this podcast full circle okay
look looking ahead How do you see personal branding
and networking evolving in the next five years?
And how should people prepare for it? I love
that question. I believe that in -person networking,
personal branding is the future. We all went
through a pandemic and I call it the great reevaluation.
We all went through something. We all have a
pandemic story. Now we have come through that.
We are ready to be back in person. We are ready
to be back with people. We need that energy.
We're humans. We need that connectivity. We need
that networking. We need that energy. You want
to be able to walk into a room at a networking
event, knowing that when you hand a business
card to somebody, when they come to that website
or when they see you, that it all matches together.
I have an example of a friend of mine, Tricia.
She does personal branding also. rebel brand
you meet her she is just like her je ne sais
quoi of who she is out it matches for people
that want that creative brander like that works
well for her you go to her website you go to
her social media right it's all that brand and
people know when they see her and then when they
see her online they're like that tracks that's
the person that i want my stuff is another example
I work with a lot of ex -corporate people. You'll
probably see me more in a collar, maybe a bright
shirt, right? But a collar, you'll see me a little
bit more in a business type of attire because
I know that my audience is corporate or ex -corporate.
It just goes well with my brand. It goes well
with my audience. And when you, all of it starts
tying together it, that's where you're bringing
together again, the networking, you're seeing
me, you're seeing me in person, you're meeting
me. And when you see my personal brand online,
it's all coming together. That's beautiful. That's
beautiful. Rhiannon, this was such a great interview.
I loved listening to your answers. Listen, if
anybody wanted to get hold of you, either to
be coached, to buy some of your product or whatever,
what's the best way for them to get hold of you?
So my website is Revive Marketing. And this is
the tricky part. It's my name is R -H -I. So
it's Rhiannon with R -H -I. So it's a play on
my name. Rhiannon, Revive. So it's Revive, R
-H -I -V -I -V -E, marketing .com. Perfect. Rhiannon,
I cannot believe it, but it's over. And I thank
you so much for coming on my podcast. It was
a great conversation. Thank you. Well, hold on,
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to revvedupkids .org. That's R -E -V -V -E -D
-U -P -K -I -D -S dot org. Well, that's a wrap,
folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
perfect. It's about being present. So take what
you've learned today, get out there and make
some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
a review, and share it with someone who could
use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
Spotify, YouTube, or my website, Michael. Remember,
until next time, keep practicing, keep connecting,
and keep building those relationships. This is
Michael signing off. Take care and happy networking.