Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building
Profitable Connections, where we go to beyond
handshakes and dive into the conversations that
create real impact. Today's guest is someone
who brings the perfect blend of strategy and
soul to the small business world. He's a speaker,
coach, and advocate for entrepreneurs, known
for helping leaders find the courage to lead,
unlock their cash flow, and face the biggest
challenges business owners encounter head -on.
But here's the question. How does networking
play into all that? How do the right relationships
help unlock revenue, resilience, and real growth?
We're about to find out. So get ready for a conversation
full of wisdom. real talk, and tangible takeaways,
because today we're not just talking business,
we're unleashing connections that profit with
purpose. Harlan, welcome to the podcast. Welcome
to the show. I am so thankful to have you on
my show. You want to give us just a little bit
of your background? Sure. And thanks, Michael.
I had you on my podcast, love talking to you,
and I'm glad to be back on your podcast now.
I've been looking forward to this. So my background
is pretty varied. I grew up in Southern California.
I worked at Lockheed Aircraft for a while, then
went to college. And when I came out, I found
a job as a consultant. And so for the... Next
30 some odd years, I was a management consultant,
organizational change and business transformation.
So working with companies that were undergoing
some major time to change, like a merger acquisition,
a process re -engineering, a new software implementation,
something like that. Anything that touched the
people, processes or technology in the business
is a change. And if you're not careful how you
manage that change, you could lose some employees,
some key employees along the way. So our job
was to get with the executive team to help them
understand the impacts. the change would have
and could potentially have on their business,
help them communicate that change and lead their
people through the change. So they were as productive
after as they were before. That was our goal.
But that meant getting on an airplane every Monday
and every Friday, flying to a client side, flying
home on the weekends. And it got to be a little
bit much. So after about... however long, 25,
30 years. I told my wife, I think I want to stop
traveling for a little while. So I started networking
locally and business coaching for some of the
local businesses. So I've worked a lot with a
lot of different varied businesses. And right
now I'm working with commercial and residential
contractors to help them improve their cashflow
and maximize their profits so that their business
can thrive and they get to take home as much
of the hard -earned money that they make. So
that's what I've been doing the last eight, nine
years. Wow, that sounds great. That sounds jam
-packed. Your background is so varied with so
many different businesses. You probably have
a lot to offer them. So hopefully that will just
continue. But now let's get into just the networking
and leadership. You talk a lot about courage.
What role does courage play in reaching out and
building authentic business relationships? I
think courage is huge. I wasn't used to networking
and I got involved, like I said, when I came
in off the road, went to a few different networking
groups. And what I loved was realizing that a
lot of these people are just like I am. A lot
of them were starting their businesses, starting
off so they were a little nervous, speaking up
in front of people and getting up in front of
people and talking. To get that courage to step
onto a stage and talk, even if it's about yourself,
even if it's a topic you really know well. can
be daunting for some people. So getting that
courage to get up and share. And the thing I
learned about networking, Bob Berg has a great
book, The Go -Giver. Don't go into a networking
environment wanting to take, wanting to get referrals.
Go in with a giving heart, right? give referrals,
recommend people, refer people, and that reciprocity
will kick in. And that's what I started finding
out is the more that I helped other people achieve
their goals, the more they were willing to help
me achieve mine. And I think networking is key
to any business. If you're in business and you're
not networking, you're missing a big opportunity.
Absolutely. And that's one of my biggest points
when I coach and when I go on the road to talk
about networking is you give with what's called
a servant's heart. You always give before you
receive and it will definitely come around to
you. Have you ever made a connection that completely
changed the trajectory of your business or leadership
path? I've made a lot of amazing connections.
I'll tell you, I actually met with this guy this
morning. We just happened to bump into each other
at a networking event and he is a business coach
like I am. So you'd think we're in a competing
area. that there'd be some animosity between
us. This is one of the most giving men I've ever
met, Jeff Bartholomew. He helps anybody that
asks him for help. So I'll bounce ideas off of
him. He'll give me some direction from either
problems or things that happened to him in his
past to say, hey, watch out for this, watch out
for that. And he's really helped me as I go and
approach these different new businesses. Sometimes
you come into a new business. I'm not familiar
with every business in the world. I know the
business of business, right? So I can help people
with their strategies, their systems, cashflow,
things like that. But the finer details of the
business, sometimes those elude me. So I can
go with Jeff, we'll sit down and have a cup of
coffee, bounce ideas off of each other and stuff.
And I come out recharged, ready to go. So yeah,
the networking, he has been a great mentor for
me. That's great that you can find somebody in
your same lane. And you're not in competition,
but you actually help one another. And I think
that's the true meaning of doing business and
networking and having the servant's heart. So
that's right on all the levels. In your experience,
how can networking directly impact a small business's
cash flow for better or worse? One thing I try
to get my clients to understand is networking.
You never know who you're talking to and how
they're connected. So getting out in opportunities
to talk to people, let them know what it is that
you do and how you do it, I think is great for
business. The one thing that happens a lot with
cashflow, it's not so much the money coming in,
it's the things that are going on in the business.
how they use the money that's going out, the
profitability. By getting out and networking
with people, you can run into what we call gate
openers. The people who may not ever buy the
product or service you're selling, but they work
with the same. clients or customers that you
do. And they may be able to bring you in when
the client buys this, maybe your product or service
is the next little piece they're missing. And
so these gate openers can actually introduce
you to people. And anytime you can get an introduction
to someone that carries so much weight, that
halo effect, if they've already bought from this
person, they're in good standing, right? People
can trust. that halo effect shines on you. And
when they introduce you, you've got their credibility
standing in for you. So I think networking is
huge. And I've seen it change people's lives
where they will make a connection that connects
them with the second or third party who then
becomes a big customer for them. So you just
never know where it's going to go. So you're
not networking necessarily with the person you're
speaking to. You're networking with their network
of people. And whether it's two or three times
removed, because if they've purchased from you
or from somebody that is associated with you,
they like you already. That trust factor is already
there. So they can recommend you. That's very
true. And I always believe in talking to the
person as if they're the center of their network.
So that's very good. Do you believe referrals
are the most underutilized revenue stream in
a small business? Absolutely. Absolutely. A lot
of the mindset is we've sold something to these
people. They've done their part. I've done my
part and we're done with them. I try to get my
clients, keep involved, email them every once
in a while. Check in with them. If you're in
the neighborhood, stop by and say hello. If it's
business to business or something like that,
try to stay in front of them as much as possible
because you never know when they're going to
be talking to someone or someone in their family
needs something. And you want to stay top of
mind with them. If you sell and then you walk
away, then you know better than some of the big
box retail stores. They don't come and see how
things are going. If you buy a product. I can't
hear. Okay. I can't. Oh, now I can hear you.
All right. Are we back? Sorry. Sorry. I told
you technical difficulties. If somebody buys
a product or service from you, check in with
them after a month or two. See how that product
is working. Did it do everything that you thought
it would? Did we perform the way we thought we
could? Those type of interactions, I think, grow.
If people have a really good experience, they're
going to tell all their friends and colleagues
about what you do. So always keep those relationships
forefront. I truly believe that the days of building
your customer list is really passe. Now you're
building the relationships. And after you've
given them a service, whatever the case may be,
you put them into your CRM and do some sort of
a drip campaign. So you're always staying top
of mind. So I always say, oh, you know what?
Harlan knows that. Let me give him a call. And
he just gives you a call. She gives you a call.
I'm a firm believer in the relationship building
as opposed to just adding to your client list,
your customer list. You often say small business
owners face one major problem. How can the right
network help solve it? I often quote Mike Michalowicz,
a business author, profit first, fix us next.
Mike Michalowicz said, the biggest problem business
owners have is that they don't know what their
biggest problem is. And I found that true with
some of the clients that I work with. They know
something's wrong. The business isn't quite working
the way they thought it should, but they have
no idea what they do. So they end up working
longer, working harder, trying to get more sales,
right? And that's rarely the problem that's happening.
By going out and networking, talking to other
people, talking to them about their businesses,
see the struggles that they're going through,
you may realize, hey, I'm marking up the wrong
three. That's not really what's going on. Find
out what they're using. If you're looking to
change your point of sale system, what are other
people using? Network with them and ask the questions.
People love to talk about themselves. They love
to talk about their business. Go up and ask somebody,
how do you guys do this? And again, yes, you
may be in a similar industry. You may be competitors.
what, seven, eight billion people in the world?
There are plenty of people. There are plenty
of customers around there. Don't get hung up
on that. Talk to people, ask them about their
business, share some ideas, trade with them.
And yeah, I think you can really find out how
to improve that because everybody needs a little
help along the way. And picking up a tidbit from
this. Okay, yeah, I firmly believe that if you
ask somebody for their point of view, not necessarily
their health, but their point of view, have them
tell about themselves in their work environment
or something. People, as you said, people love
to talk about themselves, but they love to give
you advice. You feel that you've made it when
somebody asks you for your advice. So it puts
them up and it puts you on a higher pedestal
when you ask because it shows that you are truly
interested. Okay, so here's a good one, right?
What's the biggest mistake entrepreneurs make
when trying to build their network? So I think
one thing is going in, again, with that mindset
that I'm here to get rather than I'm here to
give. they burst into a little cluster of people
talking and start talking about themselves and
what they do and handing out business cards and
everything. And I think you put people off and
they're not going to think about you. They're
not going to refer to you if they get a client.
If you come in, listen, ease yourself into a
conversation and then ask some pointed questions
about the people that are already in there talking.
Even if you turn around and walk away from the
group, you're going to be one of the most interesting
people they've met that day. because you took
the time to listen and ask them about their business.
So make your networking about getting with other
people and asking them about their business.
Make it about helping them or referring people
to them and your business will grow. Absolutely.
You hit the nail right on the head. Everything
that I go out and I speak about and everything
else and what you have to do, you said it really
so eloquently, but you really just... got to
the base of what I would say would be a huge
mistake of anybody trying to network is going
and talking. That they should listen and it should
be active listening. Not just listening to hear,
but listening to listen and respond to them with
what they're saying. So yes, listening and all
that with you. Giving out the business cards
is a major no -no off the bat. I'll tell you
a funny story. I was at a networking event. And
it was about five of us at a table. And a guy
comes walking up. Hey, how are you doing? What's
going on? Hey, I know all of you. Hey, wait a
second. Here, take my card. Zip, zip. Listen,
I want to get in touch with all of you. You all
have my contact information. Can I have your
cards? Because I want to. And he was off. And
we all looked around like, what just happened?
We all just took his card and threw it out. That's
the number one way of not doing it. That's the
way of not doing it. Be engaged and be engaged.
I had a one -to -one meeting with a guy that
I thought I would either be able to help him
or help some of his clients and friends. He spent
the entire meeting talking about himself, me,
and then his phone rang and he picked up his
phone and talked on his phone for the next 20
minutes. And then our time was up. And I will
never do business with somebody like that. I
want to know that if they're sitting with me,
I try to be as engaged as possible. I put my
phone away. I put my face down. I try to. look
them in the eye, ask them questions, be engaged
with what they're saying. He was all about me.
And that just doesn't work. Yeah, no, absolutely.
Absolutely. That's not going in with the servant's
heart. That's not going in to give rather than
receive. So yeah, I understand that wholeheartedly.
Okay, so how do you personally decide which relationships
to invest in and which to let go? As far as to
invest in, I'm always looking for the people
who work with the same type of clients I work
with, either a peripheral type service or product
that I can then go in and help on top of that.
I'm looking for those people to make connections
with. Other people I want to get to know because
who knows, something will come up and maybe I'll
be able to refer somebody to them. But if I put
a call into them or put an email into them and
they don't respond to me. If I send a referral
to them and they don't respond to that referral,
I'm done because it's my reputation that's on
the line. When I send a referral to you, I've
already cleared with this person that they are
looking for your product and service. If I say,
hey, I've got somebody I network with, the guy's
great, blah, blah, blah. I turn them over to
you. If you drop the ball, I look bad. And now
it's hard for me to go back in front of that
person and give any referral. So that's one of
the big things that I look. If somebody doesn't
respect the referrals I'm giving them, if they
don't respect my time and my effort, sorry, I
just won't do business with them. Respect goes
such a long way. And you have to know how to
respect the other person. And as you said, you
take your phone, you put it in your pocket or
face down. It's away from you. You don't even
consider looking at it. You're looking at the
person square in the eye. You're engaging with
the person. So you're 100 % present. And if they
can't give you the same respect, then you really
don't have a relationship at all. You've told
me how successful you've become. But why don't
you give me a mistake that you've made personally
and how you overcame it? So I was in the first
networking group that I went to. I was that guy
that wanted to talk about myself and how great
I am and everything that I know. everything I've
experienced and it was one of the mentors from
the group that kind of came over and put his
arm around me and said let's take a walk and
he introduced me to the servant's heart and I
had no idea I was there to promote me and that
just didn't work and I it was tough kind of getting
back in with that group and building that rapport
that I shouldn't have done in the first place
getting to know them and asking about them that
took a while to build that back up now that's
When I go in, that's my first thought is be quiet,
listen, ask questions, but just be there and
just soak it all in. And then if somebody turns
and says, hey, tell me about you. OK, they've
told me enough about themselves. Fine, I can
talk then. But I try to wait and say, you're
far more interesting than I am. I'd love to know
more about like and get them to start talking
again. But yeah, I was the guy that dropped the
ball that first time. I just came in. I had flyers.
I had business cards. I had all kinds of stuff
that I wanted to pass out to every single person
in the room. It's not the way to do it. And it's
not easy to do, is it? It's not easy just to
turn that around because you grew up. You always
thought you're here to sell something, your services
or whatever the case may be. And you want to
tell everybody what you have. That's why you're
there. But it's a whole different mindset, a
whole mind shift. And it's not easy to do. It's
not something you can do overnight. It's something
you have to practice. Because listen, networking
is a skill and it's a talent. So you have to
practice, practice. The networking group that
I'm involved in right now, they're very good
about, one of their hard and fast rules is do
not sell to anyone in this group. You're not
here to sell to these people. Nobody gets up
that early in the morning to be sold to. Tell
them how they can help you. Here's who I helped,
how I helped them, and a great referral for me
would be X. And here's a good opening question,
because that's one of the hardest things. I don't
know exactly how to refer this person to a marriage
counselor. How do you breach that, right? How
do you say, hey, I've got a marriage counselor.
It sets people off, right? They're teaching us
how to give what they call a kindling question,
just to get the fire going a little bit. Something
thought -provoking, you can ask them, hey, have
you ever considered this? Or how is this going?
Or hey, I just read this article. Have you ever
had that same issue? Just something little like
that. And if they say, yeah, you know what? I
am dealing with that right now. I may have somebody
you can talk to. So trying to get that down,
again, you're not selling to the people you're
networking with. You're basically building your
sales team. These are the people that are going
to go out and think of you. So whatever you can
do to help them keep you in their mind, that's
what you want to do. And that's really the perfect
way. You can't, I used to belong to a BNI and
that was referral, whether it was a real referral
or not. And most of the time, it was not okay.
I did one year BNI because that's what I paid
for. And I really cut it out when I was in New
York. I had my own networking groups, one in
New York, one in New Jersey. I had about 30 businesses
in each. I took the best from B &I, the best
from the tip, and I created my own networking
group. And I did just about what we're talking
about now. But it's been years and years of practice
because nobody will get it right first time out.
When building a network from scratch, what's
the first thing a small business owner should
do? I think the pre -work, understanding, number
one, your products and services that you're going
to talk about. Understand who your customer is
so you have a good, clear picture of who that
customer and how you can help them. What are
the things they're struggling with? How does
your product or service ease that pain or solve
that issue that they have so that you know then
how to go out and present your business to everybody?
I think the other thing is then those peripheral
people who offer similar services. or complimentary
services, adjacent services, if you will, that
they may be talking to some of the same customers
that you are. For a long time, I was working
with an investment person and a counselor. And
I would bring in things about when you're getting
ready to sell your business, some of the struggles
you go through with the family business, how
that impacts the family and things. We work with
a lot of the same people. So we saw that there
might've been a little bit of overlap. So we
did a few presentations together. That was good.
If you could. Find out who those other people
are that those gate openers and try to, who would
these people be? And then reach out to them.
If they're not in your group, invite somebody
to be in your group. Tell everybody else, I would
love an introduction to this person or this person.
Try to get them in your group. Always try to
build your group. Think about who you know that
could support somebody else in your group and
start inviting them. That's very good advice.
And actually that was the way that I built up
my groups. to be so large. When I was doing the
networking groups, I was in the mortgage industry.
So I obviously invited real estate, financial,
insurance, because we talked to the same people
in different parts. So we all helped one another,
but the two groups grew to be quite large. And
I had to leave them to come down to Georgia,
but that's what I did. Has there ever been a
time where networking saved your business or
your sanity? Sanity, definitely. Every business
goes through ups and downs, right? You're on
the roller coaster. And a lot of times you think,
is it something that I'm doing? Is it something
that I'm not doing or I'm doing wrong? By being
in the network and sharing that, here's the concern
that I have and stuff, you realize a lot of people
are going through the same thing you are. And
maybe you can help support each other through
that. And I did that when I first got into coaching.
There were a lot of times where I'd hit drop
spells. What am I doing wrong? And everybody
said, no, everybody's slow right now. COVID is
a great example for a lot of businesses that
impacted people. And it's like, just we'll get
through this. Maybe here's some options you could
do. Here's some things you might be able to do.
Instead of going personally into these different
offices, can you offer online courses? Can you
offer any online meetings and things like that?
So trying to help each other through those tough
times. I've made some friends in the networking
groups I've been in that we're still friends
and we probably will be for life. And we do try
to help each other whenever we can. So I think
that's a big part of it. How can you balance
the in -person networking groups or in -person
networking events? with digital? And I think
there are a lot of both now. People are used
to using Zoom and Teams to conduct work. So I
don't think they're as standoffish as they were
for a while. Everybody, if you're not meeting
in person, it's not valuable. I don't agree.
I have a group of other business coaches that
I meet with every other month and we're scattered
all over, but we get together and share online.
And it's nice to build that rapport. I think
you can do it. You have to be a little bit more
specific on how you build those long distance
relationships. Be intentional about it. Be engaged.
You don't want to be on camera and be looking
off to the side, doing something or playing with
your dog or whatever. You want to make sure that
you're engaged, just like you are in a meeting,
sitting with people. Have your camera on. I've
been in a few meetings where people have their
camera off. That's almost like being in a conference
room. But you turn your chair around to face
the window and not look at the people you're
meeting with. Have your camera on and be engaged
and ask questions and things like that. So it's
all the same rules that would apply in a live
event. But having those Zoom type meetings, I
think are great because you can get yourself
involved in other areas where you might not be
able to drive to all the time. Get involved in
those meetings and you can still meet with these
people, still get in front of them and find out
what they're doing and how you can help them.
And the intern can help you. So yeah, I think
it's a great tool. I love the online meetings.
Yeah, it's great. I do virtual workshops, which
was new to me because I'm used to going to the
business and doing a workshop and everything.
But I always give them a standard rules, a list
of standard rules. Have your camera on, be attentive,
be interactive. Don't look down at your phone.
Don't, you know, make believe that you're in
a conference room. And I would say 90 % of the
time it works because that other 10 % of the
time, nothing works. Okay, let's bring this full
circle. What's one networking habit or ritual
you swear by that our listeners could start doing
today? In the networking group that I'm in right
now, we write down the one best thing. that we
may go around the table and introduce yourself.
Here's my business. Who's who I work with and
what I do and how I help them. We write down
the one best thing we learn from each person.
And then towards the end of the meeting, we can
stand up and say, Hey, I really liked how you
said this. I really love the quote you gave on
this. And it gives some support and feedback
out on the back, which everybody needs, right?
Just some encouragement to keep doing what you're
doing. We can also jot down maybe tips. Hey,
you missed an opportunity to say this or talk
about this. We share those opportunities then
with the person afterwards. So again, we're there
to help support each other and build each other
up, not just to get referrals from you, but to
build that, the morale of the whole team. And
so, yeah, that's what I like to do. I take a
lot of notes during the meeting and I share those
with everybody during the meeting and after.
That's great. And I'm sure that's taken practice.
You didn't just get out of college and all of
a sudden start doing all these fantastic things.
You had to learn. And that's what I'm trying
to get at with my listeners, that first of all,
you go out and you start. You just do it. Because
the first time, you're going to suck. There's
no two ways about it. You're not going to get
it. But by the second, third, fourth, fifth time.
You're going to get better and you're going to
enjoy it. And the last thing is, I'm sure that
whenever you go to a networking event, you have
a good time, right? You enjoy yourself because
nobody likes going out and working without them
getting any type of. feedback or anything else
like that. So that's it. So Harlan, I want to
tell you, this was fantastic. You were a great
guest. And if somebody wanted to get hold of
you for coaching or for otherwise, how can they
do it? They can start on my website. The website
is ib4e -coaching .com. A lot of information
out there. I've got some PDFs and things like
that you can download from their free content.
And yeah, if they'd like to talk to me, you can.
Connect with me there. Connect with me on LinkedIn.
Harlan Hammock on LinkedIn. And love to chat.
Love to talk with you. Fantastic. Harlan, I can't
wait to speak with you again. I'll speak with
you soon. Awesome. Thanks, Michael. Well, hold
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-U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
perfect. It's about being present. So take what
you've learned today, get out there, and make
some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
a review, and share it with someone who could
use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
Spotify, YouTube, or my website, Michael. Remember.
Until next time, keep practicing, keep connecting,
and keep building those relationships. This is
Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take care and
happy networking.