WEBVTT 00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:19.179 Welcome back to another episode of Networking 00:00:19.179 --> 00:00:22.719 Unleashed, where we explore the power of relationships 00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:26.940 to unlock the real business success. I'm your 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:30.519 host, Michael Forman. Today, I'm sorry, we are 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:33.280 diving into one of the most essential, yet often 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.920 overlooked, aspects of the entrepreneurial and 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:41.439 career journey, networking as your launchpad. 00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:45.530 My guest today has been in the trenches. launching 00:00:45.530 --> 00:00:48.810 startups, navigating the job hunt, and building 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:51.909 businesses from scratch. He knows what it takes 00:00:51.909 --> 00:00:55.149 to turn a handshake into a game changer and how 00:00:55.149 --> 00:00:57.890 the right conversation can lead to your next 00:00:57.890 --> 00:01:01.250 big opportunity. Whether you're a job seeker 00:01:01.250 --> 00:01:04.469 trying to stand out, a new entrepreneur looking 00:01:04.469 --> 00:01:07.250 for traction, or someone deep in the startup 00:01:07.250 --> 00:01:10.670 grind, this episode is packed with powerful insights 00:01:10.670 --> 00:01:14.849 to help you build your profitable connections 00:01:14.849 --> 00:01:18.390 from day one. So grab your notebook or favorite 00:01:18.390 --> 00:01:20.989 app and get ready to rethink how you approach 00:01:20.989 --> 00:01:25.310 every introduction. Let's unleash some next level 00:01:25.310 --> 00:01:29.209 networking. Welcome, Colin. Welcome to my podcast. 00:01:29.549 --> 00:01:32.329 Welcome for my listeners. Why don't you tell 00:01:32.329 --> 00:01:35.030 us a little bit about your background? Yeah, 00:01:35.090 --> 00:01:37.010 absolutely. And thanks for having me. My background 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:39.769 was interesting. I graduated from Emory University 00:01:39.769 --> 00:01:43.099 in Atlanta, close to where you're at. in 2012 00:01:43.099 --> 00:01:47.120 and then I got a job at the world's largest hedge 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.519 fund, which I thought I had made it. I was at 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:52.209 Bridgewater Associates in Connecticut. And I 00:01:52.209 --> 00:01:55.689 promptly got fired in five months. I ended up 00:01:55.689 --> 00:01:57.890 having dinner with the guy who hired me there. 00:01:58.010 --> 00:02:00.430 He was a recruiter. He said, hey, I still like 00:02:00.430 --> 00:02:02.569 you. I appreciate you reaching out. Why don't 00:02:02.569 --> 00:02:05.250 you come be a recruiter for me? And so I ended 00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:07.730 up being a recruiter for the next year. I loved 00:02:07.730 --> 00:02:09.909 it, adored it, met amazing people, taught myself 00:02:09.909 --> 00:02:11.889 all about different industries, made a million 00:02:11.889 --> 00:02:14.979 connections. And then I ended up hiring myself 00:02:14.979 --> 00:02:18.139 at one of my open roles in Seattle at a startup 00:02:18.139 --> 00:02:21.699 out there. And then about a year or so after 00:02:21.699 --> 00:02:24.060 that, maybe a year and a half, I got a phone 00:02:24.060 --> 00:02:25.979 call from one of my high school best friends 00:02:25.979 --> 00:02:28.939 who had helped start her business. She had gotten 00:02:28.939 --> 00:02:31.919 into Techstars Boulder and she said, hey, I want 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.960 you to be on the founding team. And I dropped 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:37.900 everything in Seattle. I drove 20 hours down 00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:42.319 to Denver and I made $1 ,600 a month. It was 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:44.860 wonderful, great summer. We raised a few million 00:02:44.860 --> 00:02:48.139 dollars and then yada, yada, yada. We all got 00:02:48.139 --> 00:02:51.000 laid off at 1 p .m. on a Monday, three years 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.479 later. And three weeks after that, I started 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:55.599 my own company, which is what I'm mostly known 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:58.840 for, which is Sheets and Giggles. And that is 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:00.860 a sustainable bedding brand. I've been doing 00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:03.719 that for seven years now. We make bed sheets, 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:06.120 pillows, mattresses out of eucalyptus trees. 00:03:06.729 --> 00:03:08.889 And we were actually just on Good Morning America 00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:11.969 last month for Sleep Week. So it's been a wonderful 00:03:11.969 --> 00:03:15.530 ride. Wow, congratulations. That sounds like 00:03:15.530 --> 00:03:18.530 quite a bumpy road, but you finally got to it 00:03:18.530 --> 00:03:22.509 and you're quite successful. So that's really 00:03:22.509 --> 00:03:25.710 great. Let me start off by asking you a few questions. 00:03:26.169 --> 00:03:29.330 When you were first starting your business, what 00:03:29.330 --> 00:03:32.490 role did networking play in getting things off 00:03:32.490 --> 00:03:36.689 the ground? Oh, it was essential. When I started 00:03:36.689 --> 00:03:39.949 Cheating Giggles, I was 27 years old. I had just 00:03:39.949 --> 00:03:43.770 gotten laid off, right? And I had three years 00:03:43.770 --> 00:03:46.969 of experience in consumer brands under my belt 00:03:46.969 --> 00:03:50.050 in a very different space in hardware, wearable 00:03:50.050 --> 00:03:53.210 technology. And I thought to myself, okay, at 00:03:53.210 --> 00:03:55.009 this point in my life, I've got two options. 00:03:55.229 --> 00:03:58.080 I can move back to Seattle. I can leverage my 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.300 relationships there. I can maybe work at Microsoft 00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:03.639 or Amazon or Boeing or Starbucks, somewhere interesting 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:07.879 that's based in Seattle. Or I can take all the 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:10.099 experience of the last three years, all the people 00:04:10.099 --> 00:04:14.020 I've met, my CEO, my COO, our investors, our 00:04:14.020 --> 00:04:17.720 board members, the Techstars network, and I can 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:21.279 leverage those relationships and start my own 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:24.079 company. And I decided that it was now or never. 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:27.120 And it was the perfect time to start my own business 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.319 with those relationships that I had built specifically. 00:04:30.019 --> 00:04:33.699 And there's a bunch of different pieces that 00:04:33.699 --> 00:04:36.579 relationships helped me out with. First and foremost, 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:39.360 I knew nothing about fabrics. I had never done 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:41.160 anything in fabric. I didn't know anything about 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:43.939 textiles. And so the first connection I reached 00:04:43.939 --> 00:04:48.379 out to were actually the founders of a boulder 00:04:48.379 --> 00:04:52.199 company called Shaughnessy. They have a wonderful 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:55.300 business. They make novelty ski clothing as well 00:04:55.300 --> 00:04:58.699 as amazing underwear. And I did not know the 00:04:58.699 --> 00:05:01.259 first thing about how to source fabrics. And 00:05:01.259 --> 00:05:02.819 so I had lunch with those guys. I had a beer 00:05:02.819 --> 00:05:06.120 with them. And they introduced me to somebody 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.180 in California. who I then flew out to meet. I 00:05:09.180 --> 00:05:11.980 bought him lunch. His name was Mike. Mike ended 00:05:11.980 --> 00:05:14.899 up becoming my mentor and he ended up becoming 00:05:14.899 --> 00:05:16.939 my director of product for six years at Sheets 00:05:16.939 --> 00:05:18.860 and Giggles. That's just one example of many. 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.720 My former coworkers became investors in the business. 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.699 My crowdfunding customers included friends, colleagues, 00:05:25.779 --> 00:05:27.759 people I'd met over the course of my career at 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:31.319 that point. And everybody I worked with, I met 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:33.439 through somebody else in the beginning. And those 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:35.839 relationships helped me get the company off the 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:41.199 ground. That's great. That is the true sense 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:44.339 of networking and the building of relationships. 00:05:44.899 --> 00:05:47.860 And listen, I'm the first person to say that 00:05:47.860 --> 00:05:51.040 the days of building a client list is really 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:54.100 out the window. It's the days of building relationships. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:57.480 And you took relationship to the next level. 00:05:57.579 --> 00:06:02.120 You have them as investors, as COOs and things 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:04.360 like that. So you really took it to the next 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.850 level. Let me ask you a question. Can you share 00:06:07.850 --> 00:06:11.110 a moment when a single connection opened a major 00:06:11.110 --> 00:06:14.790 door for you, either in business or during a 00:06:14.790 --> 00:06:18.790 job search? It was definitely the one that I 00:06:18.790 --> 00:06:21.769 mentioned a second ago where I had met my director 00:06:21.769 --> 00:06:24.709 of products through a connection with the founders 00:06:24.709 --> 00:06:27.850 of ShynessD. That was incredibly helpful. I think 00:06:27.850 --> 00:06:30.189 there's definitely more examples in my life. 00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:32.680 I had mentioned earlier, I got hired. But my 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.259 first two jobs, I got hired by the same guy. 00:06:35.620 --> 00:06:38.339 So that was really, he hired me at Bridgewater. 00:06:38.579 --> 00:06:41.360 And then after I got fired, we had dinner and 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:43.600 he goes, I still really like you, man. And if 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:45.220 you want to work with me, I'd love to have you 00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:48.959 as a recruiter. And he hired me $40 ,000 a year, 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:52.560 no commission as a recruiter, my second job out 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.519 of college. And then his name's Nate. We stayed 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:58.839 in touch. We invited each other to our weddings. 00:06:59.019 --> 00:07:02.220 We became good friends. And he's since become 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:05.500 a software engineer. And funny enough, now he 00:07:05.500 --> 00:07:08.259 and I operate on the side of resume builder that 00:07:08.259 --> 00:07:11.439 you've seen called sheetsresume .com that he 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:14.300 and I started together last year on our nights 00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:16.860 and weekends. And that's been tremendous. And 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:19.759 that's doing wonderful side revenue for both 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.480 of us. And those connections, so funny to think 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.720 about the guy that hired me at my first job out 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:30.579 of college is now in my second job. is now my 00:07:30.579 --> 00:07:36.199 business partner 13 years later in a business 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:39.959 that I run that I'm enabled to do because of 00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:42.199 all the other relationships that I have and running 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:44.639 Sheets and Giggles. And so that's really cool. 00:07:44.699 --> 00:07:46.459 That's probably my strongest relationship over 00:07:46.459 --> 00:07:48.480 the course of my career. And that's led to a 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:52.100 lot. That's great. That's great. I think it's 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:55.790 amazing that you developed that friendship. From 00:07:55.790 --> 00:07:59.430 the guy who hired you? It's crazy. And from his 00:07:59.430 --> 00:08:03.370 perspective, he hired this kid out of college 00:08:03.370 --> 00:08:08.209 in 2012 to go work for one of his clients. And 00:08:08.209 --> 00:08:11.329 13 years later, he's got two kids. He's married. 00:08:11.410 --> 00:08:15.149 I'm married. And we both have a business that 00:08:15.149 --> 00:08:17.990 generates six figures of side income for us. 00:08:18.110 --> 00:08:21.970 And just because he met me. through recruiting 00:08:21.970 --> 00:08:25.149 and then stayed in touch with me as well, now 00:08:25.149 --> 00:08:28.829 he has this extra income stream that wouldn't 00:08:28.829 --> 00:08:31.389 have been possible without what I've built in 00:08:31.389 --> 00:08:34.429 terms of my reputation on the internet with helping 00:08:34.429 --> 00:08:37.110 people with their resumes. And so from his perspective, 00:08:37.210 --> 00:08:39.950 it's pretty wild too, the way that life leads 00:08:39.950 --> 00:08:41.870 you and the way that relationships can twist 00:08:41.870 --> 00:08:45.669 and turn over time. That's true. You never close 00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:48.549 that door completely. You always leave it open 00:08:48.549 --> 00:08:51.279 a crack because you don't know. Who or what is 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.440 going to walk through that crack? That's providing 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:55.539 that everything works out well, which apparently 00:08:55.539 --> 00:08:59.220 it did. What advice would you give someone trying 00:08:59.220 --> 00:09:02.799 to network during a career transition or job 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.620 hunt? Don't. There's two things. One is it's 00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:10.100 just dating. So don't come across as desperate. 00:09:10.259 --> 00:09:13.539 If you come across as I have to meet with you, 00:09:13.620 --> 00:09:18.289 I need help. It's okay to be vulnerable and to 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:21.289 say, okay, I can really use your advice. It's 00:09:21.289 --> 00:09:23.889 another thing to come across as desperate because 00:09:23.889 --> 00:09:26.250 then people are like, oh, I don't know if I want 00:09:26.250 --> 00:09:28.370 to get involved with your situation or what you've 00:09:28.370 --> 00:09:32.350 got going on. The second piece of advice is to 00:09:32.350 --> 00:09:37.210 buy them lunch. This is such a dumb piece of 00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:39.710 advice, but hopefully it's maybe not obvious 00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:43.409 to everyone. If you want somebody's mentorship, 00:09:44.139 --> 00:09:46.980 You just shoot them an email, give them a call, 00:09:47.299 --> 00:09:50.679 approach them at an event and say, hey, I'd love 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.419 to pick your brain. Could I buy you lunch sometime? 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:58.019 And just pick up the tab. It'll cost you $30, 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:02.460 $40. Pick up the tab at lunch. Sit down with 00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:05.019 them. You'll get two hours of their time, undivided 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:06.539 attention. They won't be on their phone. They 00:10:06.539 --> 00:10:08.019 won't be thinking about other things. They'll 00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:10.399 be listening to you. And then after that meeting, 00:10:10.419 --> 00:10:12.679 say, hey, this was amazing. Would you mind getting 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:15.039 together for breakfast sometime maybe in the 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:17.559 next week or two? I'd love to ask you a few more 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:20.899 questions. And now you've built this, now they 00:10:20.899 --> 00:10:22.759 like you, hopefully, right? They've spent time 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:25.539 with you and they want to help you out. And so 00:10:25.539 --> 00:10:29.679 many people ask me for my time and I'm fine with 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:31.519 giving it to them. I try to subscribe to the 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.519 theory of give first, which maybe I can talk 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.799 about more later. But it is challenging when 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:39.580 you have a very busy schedule to give everybody 00:10:39.580 --> 00:10:43.860 time. who asks for it. But I do eat lunch every 00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:47.080 day. And so if you ask me to grab lunch on a 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.220 random Friday, I already have that time built 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:53.440 in my calendar. I have to eat food. And so I 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:55.840 might as well sit across from somebody and try 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:57.700 to help them out. So that's a really good way 00:10:57.700 --> 00:10:59.919 to get somebody to give you the time of day. 00:11:00.899 --> 00:11:04.220 That's always good. I'm asked several times a 00:11:04.220 --> 00:11:06.620 week, usually through LinkedIn or something else, 00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:09.259 where they're always asking me something about 00:11:09.259 --> 00:11:12.220 networking. And only one or two of them have 00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:14.919 offered to buy me lunch, which I took them up 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.080 on, by the way. Always. I'll say yes to a free 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.559 lunch anytime. No matter how successful I am. 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:25.080 But I'm always willing to give my advice on different 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.539 networking or communication challenges that they 00:11:28.539 --> 00:11:32.740 may have. So it really, that's such great advice, 00:11:33.059 --> 00:11:35.919 which I don't know if everybody would just think 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:38.940 of, but it's a great thing to ask, to offer. 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.039 It seems obvious to me, but I get a lot of people 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:42.720 want to buy me a cup of coffee and that sort 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.820 of thing. And I'm fine with that. A cup of coffee. 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:46.259 Hey, let's throw out a cup of coffee. I want 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:48.940 to pick your brain. But one, I'm trying to limit 00:11:48.940 --> 00:11:52.759 my caffeine intake. So like, I can't always do 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.039 a cup of coffee. And then two is it like limits 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:59.039 you to a morning or early afternoon meeting. 00:11:59.220 --> 00:12:02.220 And mornings are usually really busy for people 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:07.340 that are busy people. And then three is a coffee 00:12:07.340 --> 00:12:10.460 can only take 15 minutes to drink. So it's like, 00:12:10.460 --> 00:12:12.879 I understand that you're trying to be cognizant 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.340 of their time and you're like, hey. It's very 00:12:15.340 --> 00:12:18.179 quick. Let's just grab a cup of coffee. But that's 00:12:18.179 --> 00:12:20.019 not what you want to do. You actually want to 00:12:20.019 --> 00:12:22.480 pick their brain. And conversations don't really 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:25.779 get cooking until about 30 minutes into the conversation. 00:12:26.299 --> 00:12:29.019 And I think that's getting them breakfast, getting 00:12:29.019 --> 00:12:31.320 them lunch. That's my go -to. Don't do dinners 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:33.720 too intimate. Breakfast or lunch. That's right. 00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:36.580 That's right. Yeah. Good. Good advice. Good advice. 00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:39.980 Okay. How do you approach building relationships 00:12:39.980 --> 00:12:45.019 with investors, mentors, or co -founders in the 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.500 startup world? I follow a really simple rule. 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:50.480 I just treat people the way that I want to be 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.480 treated. Some guy said that. I can't remember 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:58.379 his name. It's a simple rule. It's golden, if 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:02.179 you will. And so for investors, mentors, business 00:13:02.179 --> 00:13:05.860 partners. I always just do the best I can to 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:07.600 treat them exactly the way I would want to be 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.679 treated in any situation. And so investors, that 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.240 means being cognizant of their time, understanding 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:17.360 that they are extremely busy. They're talking 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:19.159 to a bunch of different companies at once. They 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:23.360 have to say no 99 % of the time and to not be 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:25.779 upset or take it personally. If they say no, 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:28.000 always be courteous when they give you their 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.440 time. And talk to them like human beings. I think 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:32.559 that founders, I was guilty of this early in 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:34.779 my career, for sure. Like in my early 20s, mid 00:13:34.779 --> 00:13:37.740 20s, when we were raising money for my last company, 00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:39.879 where I wasn't the founder, but I was on the 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:42.480 founding team and I was in these meetings. I 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.899 looked at these investors, like they were so 00:13:44.899 --> 00:13:48.820 far above me. I was intimidated, right? Like 00:13:48.820 --> 00:13:51.759 I didn't want to say the wrong thing. But my 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.179 friend Jackie, who was the founder of the last 00:13:54.179 --> 00:13:57.019 company that I was at, I actually loved her perspective 00:13:57.019 --> 00:14:00.059 on this. She would just say, these people just 00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:03.620 want to be treated like people. They just want 00:14:03.620 --> 00:14:06.419 to be treated like everyday people, like your 00:14:06.419 --> 00:14:08.559 friend. And that's what I've always taken with 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:10.720 me. And that's been really successful. It's like 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:12.379 just talking to them like normal human beings. 00:14:12.860 --> 00:14:15.980 And then when it comes to mentors, again, you've 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:18.360 got to ask people if they're willing to mentor 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.340 you. It's got to be a double opt -in relationship. 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:23.519 It cannot be, I need your mentorship. I want 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:25.240 your mentorship. Give it to me. Can I please 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.080 have it? You, it has to be a two -way relationship 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.019 where they opt in and they are committed to giving 00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:33.679 you their time. If they do that, I do like to 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:36.779 ask for regular time. So I don't like to, I do 00:14:36.779 --> 00:14:38.460 like sporadic stuff where it's like, Hey, can 00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:40.879 I call you if I have a question? But I also like 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:43.059 if it's some, Hey, can we meet every Friday at 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:47.019 4 PM and we'll get a beer or again, my treat, 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.139 something like that. And it's a good way to end 00:14:49.139 --> 00:14:51.960 the week and you get their advice. And the last 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.320 thing I'll say is. Come to them with a ton of 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.200 questions all ready to go. Don't waste their 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.019 time. Because if they spend an hour with you 00:14:59.019 --> 00:15:01.019 and they feel like they're not giving you any 00:15:01.019 --> 00:15:03.080 help or advice, they're probably going to come 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:04.379 back to you and say, hey, I don't think this 00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:06.039 is a good use of my time. I don't know if this 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:08.620 is a good use of your time. And that's the last 00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:10.360 thing you want. So make sure that you come ready 00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:14.100 with questions and advice that you need. That's 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:18.539 very good. You have to remember that your mentor 00:15:18.539 --> 00:15:23.389 is also a person in business. I'm a mentor to 00:15:23.389 --> 00:15:26.470 five or six people, probably now three or four 00:15:26.470 --> 00:15:30.490 people. But I have a mentor myself. So it's like 00:15:30.490 --> 00:15:33.409 a chain that you're growing up. I coach students 00:15:33.409 --> 00:15:36.909 and have a class with them every week. But I 00:15:36.909 --> 00:15:42.370 have my mentor hour with each of them on a specific 00:15:42.370 --> 00:15:48.149 day. And I ask for an hour on a specific day 00:15:48.149 --> 00:15:51.399 for my mentor. And you're right. It's got to 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:54.379 be a give and take. And both sides really have 00:15:54.379 --> 00:15:57.820 to get something out of it. Being a mentor, you're 00:15:57.820 --> 00:16:01.480 getting the ability to help somebody else. That's 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.480 what I get. Right. And I'm answering questions 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:07.440 and everything else. So, yes, that's very important 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.000 for being a mentor. Now, just give me this in 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.799 your opinion. What's the difference between networking 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:20.009 and relationship building? Oh, that's a tough 00:16:20.009 --> 00:16:24.210 one. Just because, so I've always been one, and 00:16:24.210 --> 00:16:25.889 this is funny because you probably see differently 00:16:25.889 --> 00:16:28.149 on this, or maybe we just don't define terms 00:16:28.149 --> 00:16:31.929 the same. I have always had a healthy dislike 00:16:31.929 --> 00:16:36.870 of networking. And the reason is because I don't 00:16:36.870 --> 00:16:39.210 like feeling like someone is talking to me just 00:16:39.210 --> 00:16:43.240 because they want or need something. And I don't 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:45.679 like feeling like I'm only talking to somebody 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.360 because I want or need something. To me, that 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:53.120 feels very inhuman and it feels very like Machiavellian. 00:16:53.580 --> 00:16:56.860 And so I really like thinking about networking 00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:59.679 and relationship building as really one and the 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:01.519 same. And this kind of goes back to what I said 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:03.100 a second ago is treat people the way you want 00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:07.519 to be treated. I just go to events and I will 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.500 talk to people about anything. It doesn't have 00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:15.000 to do with business. It can be family, current 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:20.480 events, topical stuff, sports. And if I establish 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.599 a relationship with someone, then I've networked 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:25.740 with them. Does that make sense? So I don't see 00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:28.319 them as distinct, actually. I actually would 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:33.740 prefer if networking was not really a thing and 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:36.740 people didn't go to these things with the expectation 00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:39.680 of meeting someone who could help them climb. 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:42.859 But rather, if they just went to these things 00:17:42.859 --> 00:17:45.579 looking for friends and looking for people that 00:17:45.579 --> 00:17:49.740 became part of who they are. And I think friends 00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:52.299 are the pieces of you that you carry around and 00:17:52.299 --> 00:17:54.539 that you get to share with the world. And so 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:56.519 the more friends you have, the more of these 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:58.079 pieces that you get to share with the world. 00:17:58.180 --> 00:18:01.059 And so I've got a lot of friends. I love my friends. 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:04.200 I have very deep relationships with them. I don't 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.220 have few. I have many. And I consider most of 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:09.980 my business contacts friends as well. I don't 00:18:09.980 --> 00:18:11.700 really have that delineation that some people 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.319 have, that hard delineation between business 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:18.759 and personal. When you go to a networking event, 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.619 first of all, you have to go with a servant's 00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:26.220 heart. You have to look to give and not to receive. 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.720 You should have that in your mind before you 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:34.059 even go. And I didn't develop this, of course. 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.759 I stole it from somebody else. F -O -R -M, family, 00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:43.019 occupation, recreation, and a message. I have 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:46.140 all that so that I can build up a rapport with 00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:49.180 somebody. And when I walk up to them and I speak 00:18:49.180 --> 00:18:52.259 to them, I'm asking them about themselves, about 00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:55.039 what they do. If family comes into it, recreation 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:58.279 comes into it, whatever. But I have them talking 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:02.680 about themselves. And then really what I wind 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:05.759 up with is I say, okay, how can I make you more 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.849 successful? I'd be a good referral source for 00:19:08.849 --> 00:19:11.950 you. And with a three or four hour event, you 00:19:11.950 --> 00:19:14.430 come back with about 15 or 20 business cards. 00:19:14.769 --> 00:19:17.730 I used to, listen, I was in a mortgage field. 00:19:17.869 --> 00:19:20.630 I went to a networking event. I came home with 00:19:20.630 --> 00:19:24.410 a shoe box filled with business cards. And it 00:19:24.410 --> 00:19:27.950 was worthless. But if I come back with that 15 00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:32.309 or 20, I can follow up properly. Impersonally. 00:19:33.049 --> 00:19:35.069 Impersonally. And you're right. And so that's 00:19:35.069 --> 00:19:39.109 the difference. Ever since the pandemic, people 00:19:39.109 --> 00:19:41.589 lost their minds. They forgot how to network. 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:44.089 They forgot how to communicate. They forgot everything. 00:19:44.349 --> 00:19:48.210 So I'm going around teaching them how to get 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:51.869 back in touch. I'm trying to make them a better 00:19:51.869 --> 00:19:56.210 version of themselves. Okay. That's my whole. 00:19:57.310 --> 00:20:01.009 I guess for me, and I agree with you, one of 00:20:01.009 --> 00:20:04.450 the rules that I followed my whole career that 00:20:04.450 --> 00:20:07.549 I learned early on when I was a recruiter is 00:20:07.549 --> 00:20:10.589 that people will do business with people they 00:20:10.589 --> 00:20:13.630 like, and they will not do business with people 00:20:13.630 --> 00:20:17.450 they don't like. And in fact, they trust and 00:20:17.450 --> 00:20:20.730 they will inconvenience themselves to avoid doing 00:20:20.730 --> 00:20:22.829 business with people they don't like or trust. 00:20:23.190 --> 00:20:26.170 And so that I think is really important as well 00:20:26.170 --> 00:20:29.690 as you've got to be likable. And a good way to 00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:31.970 be likable is not to be asking for something. 00:20:32.390 --> 00:20:34.430 Like I was at an event the other day. It was 00:20:34.430 --> 00:20:36.009 definitely like a networking event, but it was 00:20:36.009 --> 00:20:38.529 also like, it was like for startup founders in 00:20:38.529 --> 00:20:41.640 Miami. And we were, we had probably 40 people 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.579 there and we were talking and laughing and we 00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:48.279 had breakout sessions and stuff and everything 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.920 was great. And it was like a very fun event. 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.059 And I was actually very surprised at how like 00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:56.019 organic and nice it felt. And it was also for 00:20:56.019 --> 00:20:58.359 people like find co -founders and build their 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:02.460 next thing. And at the very end, this guy came 00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:04.890 up to me, I'm not trying to crush him. But he 00:21:04.890 --> 00:21:07.349 just was like, hey, like I heard you have an 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:09.170 e -commerce company, Sheets and Giggles. And 00:21:09.170 --> 00:21:12.509 I was like, yeah. And then he was like, how do 00:21:12.509 --> 00:21:16.289 you do your marketing? And I was like, all the 00:21:16.289 --> 00:21:19.349 usual suspects, like Google, Facebook, Instagram, 00:21:19.549 --> 00:21:23.029 TikTok, YouTube, like radio podcasts. And he's 00:21:23.029 --> 00:21:25.190 like, well, I have a marketing agency. I do all 00:21:25.190 --> 00:21:28.950 that. I help with all that. And I was like, all 00:21:28.950 --> 00:21:33.269 right. I was like, thanks. I'm not going to hire 00:21:33.269 --> 00:21:37.900 you. 45 seconds he could have cared less about 00:21:37.900 --> 00:21:41.220 like me my company who I was he just wanted to 00:21:41.220 --> 00:21:43.539 let me know that he could sell something to me 00:21:43.539 --> 00:21:47.460 and I was like great what an awful aftertaste 00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:49.599 to have after a really fun night getting to know 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:54.420 people yeah there's a mantra for networking if 00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:57.339 they know you if they like you and trust you 00:21:57.339 --> 00:22:01.180 they'll do business with you yeah so to know 00:22:01.180 --> 00:22:03.920 you like you went to that that get together, 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.619 40 people or so, everybody knew you because you're 00:22:06.619 --> 00:22:08.980 a nice guy. You're a good looking guy. Hey, everything's 00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:12.759 fine, right? But like you, that now is the field 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:14.900 down because you may have said something to somebody 00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:18.380 or somebody that it didn't go very well, but 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:20.819 like you, it brings it down a little bit. But 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:23.660 trust factor, that brings it down even more because 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:26.440 they don't know you and you don't know them. 00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:29.779 So that trust factor is an intricate part of 00:22:29.779 --> 00:22:32.579 the mantra. but know you like you and trust you. 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:35.079 And then people will start to do business with 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:39.660 you. Yep. Yep. It's carbon horse. And I think 00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:43.099 people will very often screw up that order. Absolutely. 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.299 Yeah, absolutely. How can somebody just starting 00:22:47.299 --> 00:22:51.640 out maybe with no title or traction create a 00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:57.390 valuable connection? Oh. I see this a lot with 00:22:57.390 --> 00:22:59.630 college students and with new grads that are 00:22:59.630 --> 00:23:01.529 trying to become entrepreneurs. It's so hard 00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:04.589 for them. First off, I think it's really hard 00:23:04.589 --> 00:23:07.490 to make connections over LinkedIn. So I really 00:23:07.490 --> 00:23:09.529 don't recommend that that's where you spend your 00:23:09.529 --> 00:23:13.630 time. People, humans are social creatures. So 00:23:13.630 --> 00:23:16.029 I would very much advise people to spend time 00:23:16.029 --> 00:23:19.170 at in -person events, events hosted by university, 00:23:19.730 --> 00:23:23.910 events hosted. On Meetup, now there's tons and 00:23:23.910 --> 00:23:27.089 tons of event apps and pages and stuff like that. 00:23:27.210 --> 00:23:30.269 So look for networking apps, look for Meetup 00:23:30.269 --> 00:23:32.690 apps, go to them. Look, you're going to have 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:36.309 to wade through a lot of waist -high sand to 00:23:36.309 --> 00:23:39.910 find people that are worth meeting. And when 00:23:39.910 --> 00:23:43.309 you do find people that are worth meeting, that's 00:23:43.309 --> 00:23:44.970 when you have to be ready to make that connection, 00:23:45.170 --> 00:23:48.140 be personable, buy them lunch. I think that's 00:23:48.140 --> 00:23:49.680 probably the best advice that I mentioned earlier 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.039 is I'll take lunch from anybody anytime, right? 00:23:52.099 --> 00:23:54.980 As long as they're not completely awful to spend 00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:58.140 an hour with. And that's going to be your best 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:01.319 bet is like those in -person connections. And 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:03.859 don't be afraid to like, I said earlier, don't 00:24:03.859 --> 00:24:06.119 come off as desperate, but don't be afraid to 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.700 humble yourself a little bit and to say, hey, 00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:11.079 look, I'm a new grad. I'm early in my career. 00:24:11.259 --> 00:24:13.160 I don't have a lot of connections. I'm super 00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:15.839 interested in the space that you're in. I'm really 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.900 excited to learn more about XYZ. Do you think 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:20.940 that you maybe have time to grab lunch with me 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:22.859 and tell me a little bit more about your journey? 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.160 And I'd love to understand more about where you're 00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:28.279 coming from. I think that's a good way to ask 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.099 people and to get mentorship. You don't need 00:24:30.099 --> 00:24:32.819 a title or anything like that. It's definitely 00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:34.960 at some point, everybody wants to meet with you. 00:24:35.420 --> 00:24:38.720 And that transition happens fast, man. I remember, 00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:42.980 I'll never forget, it was 2018 and I was launching. 00:24:44.159 --> 00:24:46.519 my crowdfunding campaign for Sheets and Giggles. 00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.539 And I was just this random dude in Denver that 00:24:50.539 --> 00:24:53.000 had been through Techstars, but like nobody really 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:55.880 knew me. And I was running a crowdfunding campaign 00:24:55.880 --> 00:25:00.220 and it was going to do really well. I knew it 00:25:00.220 --> 00:25:01.980 was going to do really well. And I had done a 00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:04.299 lot of preparation for it. I had done the videos, 00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.099 the photos, the email gathering. I had set up 00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:09.500 the pages. I had my agency ready to go. I had 00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:12.190 all these different things. And I reached out 00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:14.910 in February or March, I think it was March of 00:25:14.910 --> 00:25:18.170 2018 to Denver Startup Week. And I was like, 00:25:18.230 --> 00:25:20.789 hey, I would love to do a panel or a session 00:25:20.789 --> 00:25:23.430 on crowdfunding. I think a lot of people would 00:25:23.430 --> 00:25:25.549 need help. Crowdfunding would be great for early 00:25:25.549 --> 00:25:28.309 entrepreneurs to understand how to run a successful 00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:31.029 crowdfund. And Denver Startup Week emailed me 00:25:31.029 --> 00:25:33.569 back very politely. And they said, hey, Colin, 00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:36.380 with all due respect. that's great that you're 00:25:36.380 --> 00:25:39.099 launching this company. You should actually launch 00:25:39.099 --> 00:25:42.559 it and do something before you want to give advice 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:46.839 to other people. And I said, okay, that's fair. 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:50.279 And I ended up doing the crowdfund. We raised 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:53.960 about $300 ,000 in pre -orders for our bedsheets, 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.079 biggest bedsheet campaign of all time on Indiegogo. 00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:00.160 And then six months after that, in September 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.759 2018, I won first place at a Denver Startup Week 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:06.660 pitch competition. And I was the number one startup 00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:09.720 in Denver and everybody saw me on stage and I 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.059 blew the house down. And then the next year in 00:26:13.059 --> 00:26:16.039 2019, they invited me to judge the pitch competition. 00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:21.440 And I hosted a panel every year at Denver Startup 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:24.599 Week after that. And so it's so funny that they 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:26.559 asked me to do it. And it's so funny to think 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.640 about how fast I can change. Same guy, same knowledge, 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:34.720 six months later. everybody wanted to know me. 00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:38.140 It's your credibility. It's credibility for sure. 00:26:38.299 --> 00:26:41.440 But like, I find it interesting that people aren't 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.000 able to differentiate between people who like 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.380 have it and people who don't. That always blows 00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:49.640 my mind, whether it's with like startup founders 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:54.920 or employees or politicians, people seem to be 00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:59.799 really unable to talk to someone and just immediately 00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:03.220 know this guy has it. This woman has it, like 00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:06.519 this person has it. And so they always look for 00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:08.759 that indicator. They always look for that traction 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:12.119 in order to have that credibility. So I would 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.859 also say a corollary to this that's really unfortunate 00:27:14.859 --> 00:27:18.259 is that in America, oftentimes for people, wealth 00:27:18.259 --> 00:27:21.880 equals wisdom because wealth is that like tangible 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:25.930 credibility. God, I have seen in my career that 00:27:25.930 --> 00:27:30.170 is not true. There's not equal wisdom. And so 00:27:30.170 --> 00:27:32.250 that's the unfortunate side effect of this is 00:27:32.250 --> 00:27:34.609 people will gravitate towards the wrong people 00:27:34.609 --> 00:27:37.309 because they think that they know something they 00:27:37.309 --> 00:27:39.950 don't. When in reality, they either inherited 00:27:39.950 --> 00:27:42.349 their money, maybe they got lucky, maybe they're 00:27:42.349 --> 00:27:44.329 very unethical. There's a bunch of different 00:27:44.329 --> 00:27:48.869 reasons why that is. And a lot of people work 00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:50.970 hard for their money. So I'm just saying, it's 00:27:50.970 --> 00:27:52.769 not the great barometer that people think it 00:27:52.769 --> 00:27:56.980 is. Yeah, no, it's not. I have found very wealthy 00:27:56.980 --> 00:28:01.000 people that really are dumber than a box of rocks. 00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:04.799 They just, they're just, how did you possibly 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:08.759 get this wealthy? Because you don't know anything. 00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:11.500 And sometimes, sorry, I don't mean to cut you 00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:15.119 off. Sometimes I think it's because they're actually 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.460 too dumb. Sorry, this is really uncharitable. 00:28:18.539 --> 00:28:21.180 And this is not everyone I want to explain. But 00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:24.759 some people are too dumb to ever introspect. 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:30.500 And they never stop and think, am I good? Do 00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:32.559 I deserve this? Am I good enough? What am I doing 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:34.319 wrong? They don't have that imposter syndrome. 00:28:34.460 --> 00:28:36.839 And sometimes it's like a superpower because 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:40.799 they literally can just go for it. And they think 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.539 that they're God's gift to mankind. And they 00:28:43.539 --> 00:28:47.660 will just go and get it and grab everything they 00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:51.400 can and have no second thoughts about it. I can't 00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:54.700 do that. I don't, I always have second thoughts 00:28:54.700 --> 00:28:56.819 about, am I doing things the right way? Am I 00:28:56.819 --> 00:28:59.519 deserving of this? Am I giving back enough? All 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:01.319 those things. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to 00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.079 cut you off, but. No, it's, I'm always looking 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:07.880 into myself after I do a speaking engagement 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:10.500 or workshop or something else like that. I'm 00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:13.819 looking like what. What can I do better? What 00:29:13.819 --> 00:29:15.980 did I screw up on? Oh my God, I was so bad. I 00:29:15.980 --> 00:29:18.720 shouldn't have said that. But, and have all the 00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.700 tools. I have the QR code leading to my Google 00:29:21.700 --> 00:29:24.740 doc sheet. Did I do this? This was it. And give 00:29:24.740 --> 00:29:27.339 me a couple of stars. I have everything. Okay. 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.920 But I have to look within myself to see how well 00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:33.579 I did. And that's not so easy to do. Have you 00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:37.119 ever made a networking mistake that taught you 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:43.329 something important? A mistake or faux pas? Oh, 00:29:43.369 --> 00:29:46.269 yeah. Oh, yeah. I've got a good one. When I was 00:29:46.269 --> 00:29:49.849 25, I was going through Techstars Boulder. And 00:29:49.849 --> 00:29:53.029 you can hear me now. I'm honest. And I'm not 00:29:53.029 --> 00:29:57.430 mean. I really try to always be charitable to 00:29:57.430 --> 00:29:59.829 people as best I can and try not to be an asshole. 00:29:59.970 --> 00:30:03.230 But I definitely speak my mind. And especially 00:30:03.230 --> 00:30:06.089 when my friends are hurting, I will speak my 00:30:06.089 --> 00:30:10.000 mind. And I was 25 almost 10 years ago now. I 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.119 just moved to Colorado from Seattle for Techstars 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:18.839 Boulder 2015. And one of my friends who was CEO 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:21.000 of the company that I moved my whole life to 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:25.519 Colorado for was basically in tears because an 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:29.519 investor had told her no and had told her no 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.380 in a very, I think, aggressive, really unprofessional. 00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:38.079 And I was in a coffee shop with her and I just 00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:40.569 moved there like a week. before, two weeks before. 00:30:40.910 --> 00:30:43.869 And I remember saying very vividly, look, if 00:30:43.869 --> 00:30:47.009 that guy said that and he passed on you, then 00:30:47.009 --> 00:30:50.210 that guy's a fucking idiot. And that's what I 00:30:50.210 --> 00:30:52.309 said. I was like, I was trying to comfort my 00:30:52.309 --> 00:30:55.230 friend. And also like, I'm sure there was a kernel 00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:57.930 of truth in there. And then I'll never forget, 00:30:57.990 --> 00:31:01.609 I got called into the Techstars main office like 00:31:01.609 --> 00:31:05.240 two hours later. And they were like, hey. You're 00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:07.920 new to Colorado, huh? I was like, yeah, I just 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.200 got here like a week and a half ago. And they're 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:12.180 like, yeah, so it's a really small world out 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:15.819 here. And you were at a coffee shop that everyone 00:31:15.819 --> 00:31:19.240 goes to in this town. And somebody heard you 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:24.039 call someone a fucking idiot. And that immediately 00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:26.539 got back to me before you left the coffee shop. 00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:29.099 And I was like, oh my God. I was like, and then 00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:31.160 I remember literally trying to mount a defense 00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:33.220 in the office. And I was like, the reason he 00:31:33.220 --> 00:31:35.200 passed was X, Y, and Z. And they were like, Colin, 00:31:35.299 --> 00:31:39.359 whatever the case, you cannot say that about 00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:42.359 people like in this community. Like you will 00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:46.799 build a bad reputation very rapidly. And I, I 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:49.750 don't know if it's because I'm. I don't know. 00:31:49.789 --> 00:31:51.930 I don't know why I did that aside from just trying 00:31:51.930 --> 00:31:54.609 to comfort my friend. But that was such an important 00:31:54.609 --> 00:31:57.289 moment for me because I was like, and that's 00:31:57.289 --> 00:31:59.589 unlocked this thing that I tell people as a lesson 00:31:59.589 --> 00:32:03.250 is speak well about people behind their back. 00:32:03.450 --> 00:32:06.569 That is like one of my maybe a superpower is 00:32:06.569 --> 00:32:10.869 I will sing somebody's praises often when they're 00:32:10.869 --> 00:32:15.569 not around. And that I think also gets back to 00:32:15.569 --> 00:32:18.109 people. And so that was, I think, a big moment 00:32:18.109 --> 00:32:20.410 for me. I don't think I've ever spoken poorly 00:32:20.410 --> 00:32:22.750 about somebody behind their back in the last 00:32:22.750 --> 00:32:25.890 decade since that moment. Because it's not worth 00:32:25.890 --> 00:32:30.190 it. And it's really not. It's not. And it taught 00:32:30.190 --> 00:32:34.049 you a valuable lesson. And you learned from that 00:32:34.049 --> 00:32:37.470 lesson. So I think it worked out pretty well. 00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:40.470 I think it was funny when it happened. It was 00:32:40.470 --> 00:32:43.190 embarrassing. It was a little embarrassing. Okay. 00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:46.039 But I think it was good that it happened. And 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.079 listen, I went to the school of hard knocks. 00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:52.900 I did everything wrong before I did it right. 00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:57.759 So I had to learn things on the fly, just as 00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:01.599 you did. But that was very good. In today's digital 00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:05.259 first world, how can professionals make meaningful 00:33:05.259 --> 00:33:09.079 connections without always being face to face? 00:33:10.210 --> 00:33:13.150 Yeah, if you're asking specifically how to do 00:33:13.150 --> 00:33:15.529 when you're not face -to -face, that is a toughie. 00:33:15.970 --> 00:33:21.769 I would say going through existing warm introductions 00:33:21.769 --> 00:33:25.190 is obviously the best way to do it. Don't force 00:33:25.190 --> 00:33:27.730 a warm introduction. Don't go to somebody that 00:33:27.730 --> 00:33:30.809 you barely know. And be like, hey, can you introduce 00:33:30.809 --> 00:33:32.750 me to this other person that you barely know? 00:33:33.329 --> 00:33:35.549 Because then it's just like, it's not a warm 00:33:35.549 --> 00:33:37.549 introduction. It's kind of like an annoying, 00:33:37.829 --> 00:33:40.650 hey, Colin, I met you one time at this event 00:33:40.650 --> 00:33:43.609 like four years ago. And this other person who 00:33:43.609 --> 00:33:46.210 I've met one time asked me, they saw I was chatting 00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:48.130 with you on LinkedIn and they asked me to introduce 00:33:48.130 --> 00:33:51.690 you. That's not a good way to go about it. So 00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:55.089 I would say like actual warm introductions where 00:33:55.089 --> 00:33:58.309 you connect with people, you get to know them. 00:33:59.069 --> 00:34:03.170 And then organically, it could be months or years 00:34:03.170 --> 00:34:07.049 later, like having known these people. If you 00:34:07.049 --> 00:34:12.489 then ask them, hey, do you know anyone in this 00:34:12.489 --> 00:34:16.210 field or this space? That's a really good way 00:34:16.210 --> 00:34:18.469 to do it. So I would reach out to your personal 00:34:18.469 --> 00:34:20.730 connection that you're really strong ones right 00:34:20.730 --> 00:34:24.570 now. And I would ask them, do you know anyone? 00:34:25.340 --> 00:34:28.260 that can help me with this and then they will 00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:30.679 somebody will come to their mind that they have 00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:32.840 a connection with and they may not even be connected 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.260 to that person on linkedin right because your 00:34:35.260 --> 00:34:37.340 best am i connected to my best friend in the 00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:40.659 world on linkedin no actually like most of them 00:34:40.659 --> 00:34:45.269 not at all And so like most of my strongest connections 00:34:45.269 --> 00:34:48.170 are actually offline or at least they're off 00:34:48.170 --> 00:34:51.130 LinkedIn. And so you may miss the forest for 00:34:51.130 --> 00:34:53.130 the trees completely. If you look at my Rolodex 00:34:53.130 --> 00:34:55.130 on LinkedIn and you want to know who I know, 00:34:55.329 --> 00:34:58.369 it's very much my strongest connections are not 00:34:58.369 --> 00:35:02.949 on that platform. Yeah, it reminds me of my time 00:35:02.949 --> 00:35:06.429 when I was sitting behind a desk. I had two Rolodexes. 00:35:06.710 --> 00:35:10.210 They were filled. And now with digital and everything 00:35:10.210 --> 00:35:12.489 else, it's a little bit less. And I don't have 00:35:12.489 --> 00:35:15.610 that. I have my home desk. But the digital world, 00:35:15.690 --> 00:35:17.710 because you can have your thousands and thousands 00:35:17.710 --> 00:35:21.030 of connections on LinkedIn, but they're not relationships. 00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:24.389 They're not relationships. That's the key. What 00:35:24.389 --> 00:35:29.329 is your go -to networking move, something you 00:35:29.329 --> 00:35:37.070 do consistently that brings results? It's so 00:35:37.070 --> 00:35:41.070 funny. The best advice for all, and then totally 00:35:41.070 --> 00:35:43.130 different for different people, depends on your 00:35:43.130 --> 00:35:45.889 skills and your natural charisma and your extemporaneous 00:35:45.889 --> 00:35:49.230 speaking ability. And first off, taking extemporaneous 00:35:49.230 --> 00:35:52.130 speaking class, that may be a good tip. That's 00:35:52.130 --> 00:35:53.489 one of the best things I've ever done. When I 00:35:53.489 --> 00:35:55.929 was 13 years old, I took extemporaneous speaking 00:35:55.929 --> 00:35:59.489 the summer before high school. And you had to 00:35:59.489 --> 00:36:03.269 get, you had five minutes to memorize, to write 00:36:03.269 --> 00:36:07.409 and memorize. So you had 30 minutes to write 00:36:07.409 --> 00:36:11.150 and memorize a five minute speech on a random 00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:14.849 topic that you pulled out of a hat. And that 00:36:14.849 --> 00:36:18.969 was something like that was so educational for 00:36:18.969 --> 00:36:22.429 me in terms of how to actually come up with something 00:36:22.429 --> 00:36:25.070 on the fly and speak to people organically without 00:36:25.070 --> 00:36:28.130 sounding like it's prepared. And so that may 00:36:28.130 --> 00:36:30.250 be a good tip is go take an extemporaneous speaking 00:36:30.250 --> 00:36:33.289 class and learn how to actually speak without 00:36:33.289 --> 00:36:36.690 thinking. And then the second thing I would say 00:36:36.690 --> 00:36:41.809 is, again, there's an old adage. If you want 00:36:41.809 --> 00:36:44.289 money, ask for advice. And if you want advice, 00:36:44.590 --> 00:36:48.710 ask for money. And I think that's really true 00:36:48.710 --> 00:36:52.389 in networking. If you want network connections, 00:36:52.969 --> 00:36:59.710 try to build, like, I think. So don't approach 00:36:59.710 --> 00:37:02.389 it. If you want professional connections, be 00:37:02.389 --> 00:37:05.820 personal. Like what you were saying earlier with 00:37:05.820 --> 00:37:08.739 the form is that I don't think about it in those 00:37:08.739 --> 00:37:11.780 terms, but if I can get to know somebody on a 00:37:11.780 --> 00:37:14.039 personal level, what they do, why they do it, 00:37:14.059 --> 00:37:16.980 why it speaks to them, why they dedicated their 00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.699 lives to this, what their major challenges are, 00:37:19.820 --> 00:37:22.500 like all these things are good questions to ask 00:37:22.500 --> 00:37:25.139 people, but not in an interrogatory way. That's 00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:26.820 the other thing is like people, sometimes people 00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:28.780 interrogate me. They're like, what are your biggest 00:37:28.780 --> 00:37:30.739 challenges right now? And I'm like, oh dude, 00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:33.280 I have so much anxiety. Don't make me list out. 00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:36.719 My biggest challenge is right now, I go to sleep 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:39.179 thinking about these business problems. I don't 00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:42.059 ask me if I'm excited that the Panthers are defending 00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:45.139 the Stanley Cup or ask me if I have any kids 00:37:45.139 --> 00:37:48.480 or if I have any nieces and nephews or ask me 00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.699 where I'm from and like where I went to school. 00:37:50.739 --> 00:37:53.460 And that's what I like to do with people. And 00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:55.340 then once I get to know them, like it's just 00:37:55.340 --> 00:37:57.780 an organic conversation. So that's my best advice 00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:00.960 to people as much as you possibly can. Just talk 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.760 to people like a normal conversation. That's 00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.340 great advice. Great advice. That's where form 00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:12.099 comes in. That's just to help you bring in different 00:38:12.099 --> 00:38:14.840 ideas of different people, different things, 00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:18.940 whatever. But that is great sound advice. Anybody 00:38:18.940 --> 00:38:20.780 that's listening should really listen to that. 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:25.250 Now let's bring this full circle. What mindset 00:38:25.250 --> 00:38:29.130 should people adopt if they want to build a network 00:38:29.130 --> 00:38:32.849 that leads to real opportunity, not just business 00:38:32.849 --> 00:38:41.909 cards? Oh, you should be the person that everyone 00:38:41.909 --> 00:38:46.369 leaves the room thinking about. I guess that's 00:38:46.369 --> 00:38:50.309 maybe the best way to put it. And part of this 00:38:50.309 --> 00:38:54.000 is knowing your audience, right? So this also 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.420 goes back to pitching in front of a crowd. If 00:38:57.420 --> 00:39:00.760 you know your audience and you understand the 00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:03.719 feeling you want to leave them with, like when 00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:06.860 I pitch in front of a crowd, when I get off the 00:39:06.860 --> 00:39:09.420 stage, I want every, first off, you have to know 00:39:09.420 --> 00:39:11.519 your audience. Are they investors? Are they buyers? 00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:15.059 Or are they lay people? Are they just there to 00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:18.739 be entertained? Who is your audience? And then 00:39:18.739 --> 00:39:20.539 once you understand who they are, you can understand 00:39:20.539 --> 00:39:22.969 how you want to make them feel. So if you go 00:39:22.969 --> 00:39:24.989 to a networking event and your audience is other 00:39:24.989 --> 00:39:27.989 professionals who are busy, who are working on 00:39:27.989 --> 00:39:30.409 their own problems, who are consumed with their 00:39:30.409 --> 00:39:33.570 own things, okay, great. They don't really give 00:39:33.570 --> 00:39:36.389 a fuck about my problems or like the things that 00:39:36.389 --> 00:39:40.409 I'm working on necessarily. Maybe they care more 00:39:40.409 --> 00:39:44.650 about people who have a common empathy and understanding 00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:47.690 for the challenges that they're going through. 00:39:47.769 --> 00:39:50.469 And maybe they want a friend who they can talk 00:39:50.469 --> 00:39:54.630 to openly. without fear of being judged or a 00:39:54.630 --> 00:39:57.869 fear of being too vulnerable because startup 00:39:57.869 --> 00:40:01.010 CEOs are never allowed to take off their rose 00:40:01.010 --> 00:40:03.210 -colored optimism glasses. They're never allowed 00:40:03.210 --> 00:40:05.949 to speak freely about the challenges that face 00:40:05.949 --> 00:40:08.250 their company. And so if I go to a networking 00:40:08.250 --> 00:40:11.190 event and I understand that these people are 00:40:11.190 --> 00:40:13.409 people like me and I can empathize with them 00:40:13.409 --> 00:40:16.329 and I can make them feel like when they leave 00:40:16.329 --> 00:40:19.880 the room, like, that guy Colin? I can be open 00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:22.920 with him. I can be myself with him. I can be 00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:26.099 vulnerable with him. And I feel like he's being 00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:28.280 honest with me, so I will be honest with him. 00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:31.659 That is, I think, the best feeling that I like 00:40:31.659 --> 00:40:34.780 to leave people with. And so I think that's probably 00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:37.579 the best rule I can give you is know your audience, 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:40.179 understand the feeling you want to leave them 00:40:40.179 --> 00:40:44.099 with, and then go out and achieve that. And there's 00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:47.320 multiple ways to achieve your goal. And you'll 00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:49.480 get a lot of clarity in thinking about when I 00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:52.219 leave the room, how are they going to feel? Are 00:40:52.219 --> 00:40:53.980 they going to feel like I was selling them something? 00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:56.500 Are they going to feel like I only gave a shit 00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:58.599 about their credit card number? Are they going 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:00.960 to feel like I'm desperate? Are they going to 00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.619 feel like I'm a entrepreneur? Are they going 00:41:03.619 --> 00:41:05.940 to feel like I have no valuable experience to 00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:08.380 share, that I can't empathize with them, that 00:41:08.380 --> 00:41:11.889 I was self -absorbed? Those are all things that 00:41:11.889 --> 00:41:14.650 people do feel about people when they leave networking 00:41:14.650 --> 00:41:17.130 events. Like every single time you go to one, 00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:19.050 you will meet people that make you feel exactly 00:41:19.050 --> 00:41:21.769 like that. And so that's a disaster. You never 00:41:21.769 --> 00:41:24.210 want that. Think hard and decide before you go 00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:25.489 in how they're going to feel about you when you 00:41:25.489 --> 00:41:28.409 leave. That's great advice. That's a great advice 00:41:28.409 --> 00:41:32.710 for anybody. Even I'm thinking about how I leave 00:41:32.710 --> 00:41:35.469 the room, how I leave people, because I want 00:41:35.469 --> 00:41:38.250 them to have the lasting impression of my talk 00:41:38.250 --> 00:41:41.769 and everything else. That's great advice. Colin, 00:41:41.889 --> 00:41:45.070 I can't begin to tell you how I enjoyed this 00:41:45.070 --> 00:41:48.510 podcast, because you spoke about everything that 00:41:48.510 --> 00:41:51.909 I truly believe in. If somebody wanted to get 00:41:51.909 --> 00:41:53.889 hold of you, how would they get hold of you? 00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.820 I am very easy to find. I am on LinkedIn, but 00:41:57.820 --> 00:42:01.340 I do not post. I do not subscribe to the LinkedIn 00:42:01.340 --> 00:42:04.239 lunatic theory of networking. Although there 00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:06.400 are some valuable posts on there sometimes. But 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:09.639 Colin McIntosh, you can find me at my two main 00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:12.599 companies, Sheets and Giggles. And then if you're 00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.960 a job hunter and you need some resume help, sheetsresume 00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.079 .com is my passion project that I do on the side. 00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:21.960 And my emails, I think for both of those sites 00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.360 are public on the website and you can reach me 00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:27.699 pretty easily. That's great. Colin, thank you 00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:30.539 for coming on the podcast. I hope everybody enjoyed 00:42:30.539 --> 00:42:33.300 what you had to say. Thanks, Michael. I appreciate 00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:36.780 you having this really fun conversation. Well, 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:39.800 hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let me just 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:43.000 read a few of our sponsors that we have. Struggling 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:46.519 to reach success? Maybe it's time to quit. In 00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:50.380 Quit Your Way to Success. by Rodney Davis. This 00:42:50.380 --> 00:42:54.000 reveals 27 steps to breaking bad habits that 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:57.539 hold you back. This powerful book helps you rewire 00:42:57.539 --> 00:43:01.000 your mindset, take control of your actions, and 00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:04.119 turn setbacks into stepping stones. 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That's R -E -V -V -E -D 00:43:48.909 --> 00:43:56.110 -U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap, 00:43:56.170 --> 00:43:59.030 folks. A huge thank you to our special guests 00:43:59.030 --> 00:44:02.369 for sharing such incredible insights today. And 00:44:02.369 --> 00:44:05.750 of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing 00:44:05.750 --> 00:44:08.690 listeners, for tuning in and spending your time 00:44:08.690 --> 00:44:12.590 with us. Remember, networking isn't about being 00:44:12.590 --> 00:44:15.929 perfect. It's about being present. So take what 00:44:15.929 --> 00:44:18.510 you've learned today, get out there, and make 00:44:18.510 --> 00:44:21.510 some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this 00:44:21.510 --> 00:44:24.469 episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us 00:44:24.469 --> 00:44:27.110 a review, and share it with someone who could 00:44:27.110 --> 00:44:30.409 use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep 00:44:30.409 --> 00:44:34.110 the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, 00:44:34.250 --> 00:44:38.570 Spotify, YouTube, or my website, Michael. Remember. 00:44:39.130 --> 00:44:42.510 Until next time, keep practicing, keep connecting, 00:44:42.630 --> 00:44:45.809 and keep building those relationships. This is 00:44:45.809 --> 00:44:48.969 Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take care and 00:44:48.969 --> 00:45:08.889 happy networking. being coached, or having me 00:45:08.889 --> 00:45:12.590 come and talk to your company, just go to Michael 00:45:12.590 --> 00:45:16.110 and fill out the request form. Remember, networking 00:45:16.110 --> 00:45:19.489 isn't about being perfect. It's about being present. 00:45:19.969 --> 00:45:22.650 So take what you've learned today, get out there, 00:45:22.750 --> 00:45:25.769 and make some meaningful connections. If you've 00:45:25.769 --> 00:45:28.530 enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to 00:45:28.530 --> 00:45:31.730 subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with 00:45:31.730 --> 00:45:34.050 someone who could use a little networking inspiration. 00:45:34.889 --> 00:45:37.929 Let's keep the conversation going. You can find 00:45:37.929 --> 00:45:42.269 me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, or my 00:45:42.269 --> 00:45:46.150 website, foreman .com slash podcasts.