Welcome back to another episode of Networking
Unleashed, where we explore the power of relationships
to unlock the real business success. I'm your
host, Michael Forman. Today, I'm sorry, we are
diving into one of the most essential, yet often
overlooked, aspects of the entrepreneurial and
career journey, networking as your launchpad.
My guest today has been in the trenches. launching
startups, navigating the job hunt, and building
businesses from scratch. He knows what it takes
to turn a handshake into a game changer and how
the right conversation can lead to your next
big opportunity. Whether you're a job seeker
trying to stand out, a new entrepreneur looking
for traction, or someone deep in the startup
grind, this episode is packed with powerful insights
to help you build your profitable connections
from day one. So grab your notebook or favorite
app and get ready to rethink how you approach
every introduction. Let's unleash some next level
networking. Welcome, Colin. Welcome to my podcast.
Welcome for my listeners. Why don't you tell
us a little bit about your background? Yeah,
absolutely. And thanks for having me. My background
was interesting. I graduated from Emory University
in Atlanta, close to where you're at. in 2012
and then I got a job at the world's largest hedge
fund, which I thought I had made it. I was at
Bridgewater Associates in Connecticut. And I
promptly got fired in five months. I ended up
having dinner with the guy who hired me there.
He was a recruiter. He said, hey, I still like
you. I appreciate you reaching out. Why don't
you come be a recruiter for me? And so I ended
up being a recruiter for the next year. I loved
it, adored it, met amazing people, taught myself
all about different industries, made a million
connections. And then I ended up hiring myself
at one of my open roles in Seattle at a startup
out there. And then about a year or so after
that, maybe a year and a half, I got a phone
call from one of my high school best friends
who had helped start her business. She had gotten
into Techstars Boulder and she said, hey, I want
you to be on the founding team. And I dropped
everything in Seattle. I drove 20 hours down
to Denver and I made $1 ,600 a month. It was
wonderful, great summer. We raised a few million
dollars and then yada, yada, yada. We all got
laid off at 1 p .m. on a Monday, three years
later. And three weeks after that, I started
my own company, which is what I'm mostly known
for, which is Sheets and Giggles. And that is
a sustainable bedding brand. I've been doing
that for seven years now. We make bed sheets,
pillows, mattresses out of eucalyptus trees.
And we were actually just on Good Morning America
last month for Sleep Week. So it's been a wonderful
ride. Wow, congratulations. That sounds like
quite a bumpy road, but you finally got to it
and you're quite successful. So that's really
great. Let me start off by asking you a few questions.
When you were first starting your business, what
role did networking play in getting things off
the ground? Oh, it was essential. When I started
Cheating Giggles, I was 27 years old. I had just
gotten laid off, right? And I had three years
of experience in consumer brands under my belt
in a very different space in hardware, wearable
technology. And I thought to myself, okay, at
this point in my life, I've got two options.
I can move back to Seattle. I can leverage my
relationships there. I can maybe work at Microsoft
or Amazon or Boeing or Starbucks, somewhere interesting
that's based in Seattle. Or I can take all the
experience of the last three years, all the people
I've met, my CEO, my COO, our investors, our
board members, the Techstars network, and I can
leverage those relationships and start my own
company. And I decided that it was now or never.
And it was the perfect time to start my own business
with those relationships that I had built specifically.
And there's a bunch of different pieces that
relationships helped me out with. First and foremost,
I knew nothing about fabrics. I had never done
anything in fabric. I didn't know anything about
textiles. And so the first connection I reached
out to were actually the founders of a boulder
company called Shaughnessy. They have a wonderful
business. They make novelty ski clothing as well
as amazing underwear. And I did not know the
first thing about how to source fabrics. And
so I had lunch with those guys. I had a beer
with them. And they introduced me to somebody
in California. who I then flew out to meet. I
bought him lunch. His name was Mike. Mike ended
up becoming my mentor and he ended up becoming
my director of product for six years at Sheets
and Giggles. That's just one example of many.
My former coworkers became investors in the business.
My crowdfunding customers included friends, colleagues,
people I'd met over the course of my career at
that point. And everybody I worked with, I met
through somebody else in the beginning. And those
relationships helped me get the company off the
ground. That's great. That is the true sense
of networking and the building of relationships.
And listen, I'm the first person to say that
the days of building a client list is really
out the window. It's the days of building relationships.
And you took relationship to the next level.
You have them as investors, as COOs and things
like that. So you really took it to the next
level. Let me ask you a question. Can you share
a moment when a single connection opened a major
door for you, either in business or during a
job search? It was definitely the one that I
mentioned a second ago where I had met my director
of products through a connection with the founders
of ShynessD. That was incredibly helpful. I think
there's definitely more examples in my life.
I had mentioned earlier, I got hired. But my
first two jobs, I got hired by the same guy.
So that was really, he hired me at Bridgewater.
And then after I got fired, we had dinner and
he goes, I still really like you, man. And if
you want to work with me, I'd love to have you
as a recruiter. And he hired me $40 ,000 a year,
no commission as a recruiter, my second job out
of college. And then his name's Nate. We stayed
in touch. We invited each other to our weddings.
We became good friends. And he's since become
a software engineer. And funny enough, now he
and I operate on the side of resume builder that
you've seen called sheetsresume .com that he
and I started together last year on our nights
and weekends. And that's been tremendous. And
that's doing wonderful side revenue for both
of us. And those connections, so funny to think
about the guy that hired me at my first job out
of college is now in my second job. is now my
business partner 13 years later in a business
that I run that I'm enabled to do because of
all the other relationships that I have and running
Sheets and Giggles. And so that's really cool.
That's probably my strongest relationship over
the course of my career. And that's led to a
lot. That's great. That's great. I think it's
amazing that you developed that friendship. From
the guy who hired you? It's crazy. And from his
perspective, he hired this kid out of college
in 2012 to go work for one of his clients. And
13 years later, he's got two kids. He's married.
I'm married. And we both have a business that
generates six figures of side income for us.
And just because he met me. through recruiting
and then stayed in touch with me as well, now
he has this extra income stream that wouldn't
have been possible without what I've built in
terms of my reputation on the internet with helping
people with their resumes. And so from his perspective,
it's pretty wild too, the way that life leads
you and the way that relationships can twist
and turn over time. That's true. You never close
that door completely. You always leave it open
a crack because you don't know. Who or what is
going to walk through that crack? That's providing
that everything works out well, which apparently
it did. What advice would you give someone trying
to network during a career transition or job
hunt? Don't. There's two things. One is it's
just dating. So don't come across as desperate.
If you come across as I have to meet with you,
I need help. It's okay to be vulnerable and to
say, okay, I can really use your advice. It's
another thing to come across as desperate because
then people are like, oh, I don't know if I want
to get involved with your situation or what you've
got going on. The second piece of advice is to
buy them lunch. This is such a dumb piece of
advice, but hopefully it's maybe not obvious
to everyone. If you want somebody's mentorship,
You just shoot them an email, give them a call,
approach them at an event and say, hey, I'd love
to pick your brain. Could I buy you lunch sometime?
And just pick up the tab. It'll cost you $30,
$40. Pick up the tab at lunch. Sit down with
them. You'll get two hours of their time, undivided
attention. They won't be on their phone. They
won't be thinking about other things. They'll
be listening to you. And then after that meeting,
say, hey, this was amazing. Would you mind getting
together for breakfast sometime maybe in the
next week or two? I'd love to ask you a few more
questions. And now you've built this, now they
like you, hopefully, right? They've spent time
with you and they want to help you out. And so
many people ask me for my time and I'm fine with
giving it to them. I try to subscribe to the
theory of give first, which maybe I can talk
about more later. But it is challenging when
you have a very busy schedule to give everybody
time. who asks for it. But I do eat lunch every
day. And so if you ask me to grab lunch on a
random Friday, I already have that time built
in my calendar. I have to eat food. And so I
might as well sit across from somebody and try
to help them out. So that's a really good way
to get somebody to give you the time of day.
That's always good. I'm asked several times a
week, usually through LinkedIn or something else,
where they're always asking me something about
networking. And only one or two of them have
offered to buy me lunch, which I took them up
on, by the way. Always. I'll say yes to a free
lunch anytime. No matter how successful I am.
But I'm always willing to give my advice on different
networking or communication challenges that they
may have. So it really, that's such great advice,
which I don't know if everybody would just think
of, but it's a great thing to ask, to offer.
It seems obvious to me, but I get a lot of people
want to buy me a cup of coffee and that sort
of thing. And I'm fine with that. A cup of coffee.
Hey, let's throw out a cup of coffee. I want
to pick your brain. But one, I'm trying to limit
my caffeine intake. So like, I can't always do
a cup of coffee. And then two is it like limits
you to a morning or early afternoon meeting.
And mornings are usually really busy for people
that are busy people. And then three is a coffee
can only take 15 minutes to drink. So it's like,
I understand that you're trying to be cognizant
of their time and you're like, hey. It's very
quick. Let's just grab a cup of coffee. But that's
not what you want to do. You actually want to
pick their brain. And conversations don't really
get cooking until about 30 minutes into the conversation.
And I think that's getting them breakfast, getting
them lunch. That's my go -to. Don't do dinners
too intimate. Breakfast or lunch. That's right.
That's right. Yeah. Good. Good advice. Good advice.
Okay. How do you approach building relationships
with investors, mentors, or co -founders in the
startup world? I follow a really simple rule.
I just treat people the way that I want to be
treated. Some guy said that. I can't remember
his name. It's a simple rule. It's golden, if
you will. And so for investors, mentors, business
partners. I always just do the best I can to
treat them exactly the way I would want to be
treated in any situation. And so investors, that
means being cognizant of their time, understanding
that they are extremely busy. They're talking
to a bunch of different companies at once. They
have to say no 99 % of the time and to not be
upset or take it personally. If they say no,
always be courteous when they give you their
time. And talk to them like human beings. I think
that founders, I was guilty of this early in
my career, for sure. Like in my early 20s, mid
20s, when we were raising money for my last company,
where I wasn't the founder, but I was on the
founding team and I was in these meetings. I
looked at these investors, like they were so
far above me. I was intimidated, right? Like
I didn't want to say the wrong thing. But my
friend Jackie, who was the founder of the last
company that I was at, I actually loved her perspective
on this. She would just say, these people just
want to be treated like people. They just want
to be treated like everyday people, like your
friend. And that's what I've always taken with
me. And that's been really successful. It's like
just talking to them like normal human beings.
And then when it comes to mentors, again, you've
got to ask people if they're willing to mentor
you. It's got to be a double opt -in relationship.
It cannot be, I need your mentorship. I want
your mentorship. Give it to me. Can I please
have it? You, it has to be a two -way relationship
where they opt in and they are committed to giving
you their time. If they do that, I do like to
ask for regular time. So I don't like to, I do
like sporadic stuff where it's like, Hey, can
I call you if I have a question? But I also like
if it's some, Hey, can we meet every Friday at
4 PM and we'll get a beer or again, my treat,
something like that. And it's a good way to end
the week and you get their advice. And the last
thing I'll say is. Come to them with a ton of
questions all ready to go. Don't waste their
time. Because if they spend an hour with you
and they feel like they're not giving you any
help or advice, they're probably going to come
back to you and say, hey, I don't think this
is a good use of my time. I don't know if this
is a good use of your time. And that's the last
thing you want. So make sure that you come ready
with questions and advice that you need. That's
very good. You have to remember that your mentor
is also a person in business. I'm a mentor to
five or six people, probably now three or four
people. But I have a mentor myself. So it's like
a chain that you're growing up. I coach students
and have a class with them every week. But I
have my mentor hour with each of them on a specific
day. And I ask for an hour on a specific day
for my mentor. And you're right. It's got to
be a give and take. And both sides really have
to get something out of it. Being a mentor, you're
getting the ability to help somebody else. That's
what I get. Right. And I'm answering questions
and everything else. So, yes, that's very important
for being a mentor. Now, just give me this in
your opinion. What's the difference between networking
and relationship building? Oh, that's a tough
one. Just because, so I've always been one, and
this is funny because you probably see differently
on this, or maybe we just don't define terms
the same. I have always had a healthy dislike
of networking. And the reason is because I don't
like feeling like someone is talking to me just
because they want or need something. And I don't
like feeling like I'm only talking to somebody
because I want or need something. To me, that
feels very inhuman and it feels very like Machiavellian.
And so I really like thinking about networking
and relationship building as really one and the
same. And this kind of goes back to what I said
a second ago is treat people the way you want
to be treated. I just go to events and I will
talk to people about anything. It doesn't have
to do with business. It can be family, current
events, topical stuff, sports. And if I establish
a relationship with someone, then I've networked
with them. Does that make sense? So I don't see
them as distinct, actually. I actually would
prefer if networking was not really a thing and
people didn't go to these things with the expectation
of meeting someone who could help them climb.
But rather, if they just went to these things
looking for friends and looking for people that
became part of who they are. And I think friends
are the pieces of you that you carry around and
that you get to share with the world. And so
the more friends you have, the more of these
pieces that you get to share with the world.
And so I've got a lot of friends. I love my friends.
I have very deep relationships with them. I don't
have few. I have many. And I consider most of
my business contacts friends as well. I don't
really have that delineation that some people
have, that hard delineation between business
and personal. When you go to a networking event,
first of all, you have to go with a servant's
heart. You have to look to give and not to receive.
You should have that in your mind before you
even go. And I didn't develop this, of course.
I stole it from somebody else. F -O -R -M, family,
occupation, recreation, and a message. I have
all that so that I can build up a rapport with
somebody. And when I walk up to them and I speak
to them, I'm asking them about themselves, about
what they do. If family comes into it, recreation
comes into it, whatever. But I have them talking
about themselves. And then really what I wind
up with is I say, okay, how can I make you more
successful? I'd be a good referral source for
you. And with a three or four hour event, you
come back with about 15 or 20 business cards.
I used to, listen, I was in a mortgage field.
I went to a networking event. I came home with
a shoe box filled with business cards. And it
was worthless. But if I come back with that 15
or 20, I can follow up properly. Impersonally.
Impersonally. And you're right. And so that's
the difference. Ever since the pandemic, people
lost their minds. They forgot how to network.
They forgot how to communicate. They forgot everything.
So I'm going around teaching them how to get
back in touch. I'm trying to make them a better
version of themselves. Okay. That's my whole.
I guess for me, and I agree with you, one of
the rules that I followed my whole career that
I learned early on when I was a recruiter is
that people will do business with people they
like, and they will not do business with people
they don't like. And in fact, they trust and
they will inconvenience themselves to avoid doing
business with people they don't like or trust.
And so that I think is really important as well
as you've got to be likable. And a good way to
be likable is not to be asking for something.
Like I was at an event the other day. It was
definitely like a networking event, but it was
also like, it was like for startup founders in
Miami. And we were, we had probably 40 people
there and we were talking and laughing and we
had breakout sessions and stuff and everything
was great. And it was like a very fun event.
And I was actually very surprised at how like
organic and nice it felt. And it was also for
people like find co -founders and build their
next thing. And at the very end, this guy came
up to me, I'm not trying to crush him. But he
just was like, hey, like I heard you have an
e -commerce company, Sheets and Giggles. And
I was like, yeah. And then he was like, how do
you do your marketing? And I was like, all the
usual suspects, like Google, Facebook, Instagram,
TikTok, YouTube, like radio podcasts. And he's
like, well, I have a marketing agency. I do all
that. I help with all that. And I was like, all
right. I was like, thanks. I'm not going to hire
you. 45 seconds he could have cared less about
like me my company who I was he just wanted to
let me know that he could sell something to me
and I was like great what an awful aftertaste
to have after a really fun night getting to know
people yeah there's a mantra for networking if
they know you if they like you and trust you
they'll do business with you yeah so to know
you like you went to that that get together,
40 people or so, everybody knew you because you're
a nice guy. You're a good looking guy. Hey, everything's
fine, right? But like you, that now is the field
down because you may have said something to somebody
or somebody that it didn't go very well, but
like you, it brings it down a little bit. But
trust factor, that brings it down even more because
they don't know you and you don't know them.
So that trust factor is an intricate part of
the mantra. but know you like you and trust you.
And then people will start to do business with
you. Yep. Yep. It's carbon horse. And I think
people will very often screw up that order. Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely. How can somebody just starting
out maybe with no title or traction create a
valuable connection? Oh. I see this a lot with
college students and with new grads that are
trying to become entrepreneurs. It's so hard
for them. First off, I think it's really hard
to make connections over LinkedIn. So I really
don't recommend that that's where you spend your
time. People, humans are social creatures. So
I would very much advise people to spend time
at in -person events, events hosted by university,
events hosted. On Meetup, now there's tons and
tons of event apps and pages and stuff like that.
So look for networking apps, look for Meetup
apps, go to them. Look, you're going to have
to wade through a lot of waist -high sand to
find people that are worth meeting. And when
you do find people that are worth meeting, that's
when you have to be ready to make that connection,
be personable, buy them lunch. I think that's
probably the best advice that I mentioned earlier
is I'll take lunch from anybody anytime, right?
As long as they're not completely awful to spend
an hour with. And that's going to be your best
bet is like those in -person connections. And
don't be afraid to like, I said earlier, don't
come off as desperate, but don't be afraid to
humble yourself a little bit and to say, hey,
look, I'm a new grad. I'm early in my career.
I don't have a lot of connections. I'm super
interested in the space that you're in. I'm really
excited to learn more about XYZ. Do you think
that you maybe have time to grab lunch with me
and tell me a little bit more about your journey?
And I'd love to understand more about where you're
coming from. I think that's a good way to ask
people and to get mentorship. You don't need
a title or anything like that. It's definitely
at some point, everybody wants to meet with you.
And that transition happens fast, man. I remember,
I'll never forget, it was 2018 and I was launching.
my crowdfunding campaign for Sheets and Giggles.
And I was just this random dude in Denver that
had been through Techstars, but like nobody really
knew me. And I was running a crowdfunding campaign
and it was going to do really well. I knew it
was going to do really well. And I had done a
lot of preparation for it. I had done the videos,
the photos, the email gathering. I had set up
the pages. I had my agency ready to go. I had
all these different things. And I reached out
in February or March, I think it was March of
2018 to Denver Startup Week. And I was like,
hey, I would love to do a panel or a session
on crowdfunding. I think a lot of people would
need help. Crowdfunding would be great for early
entrepreneurs to understand how to run a successful
crowdfund. And Denver Startup Week emailed me
back very politely. And they said, hey, Colin,
with all due respect. that's great that you're
launching this company. You should actually launch
it and do something before you want to give advice
to other people. And I said, okay, that's fair.
And I ended up doing the crowdfund. We raised
about $300 ,000 in pre -orders for our bedsheets,
biggest bedsheet campaign of all time on Indiegogo.
And then six months after that, in September
2018, I won first place at a Denver Startup Week
pitch competition. And I was the number one startup
in Denver and everybody saw me on stage and I
blew the house down. And then the next year in
2019, they invited me to judge the pitch competition.
And I hosted a panel every year at Denver Startup
Week after that. And so it's so funny that they
asked me to do it. And it's so funny to think
about how fast I can change. Same guy, same knowledge,
six months later. everybody wanted to know me.
It's your credibility. It's credibility for sure.
But like, I find it interesting that people aren't
able to differentiate between people who like
have it and people who don't. That always blows
my mind, whether it's with like startup founders
or employees or politicians, people seem to be
really unable to talk to someone and just immediately
know this guy has it. This woman has it, like
this person has it. And so they always look for
that indicator. They always look for that traction
in order to have that credibility. So I would
also say a corollary to this that's really unfortunate
is that in America, oftentimes for people, wealth
equals wisdom because wealth is that like tangible
credibility. God, I have seen in my career that
is not true. There's not equal wisdom. And so
that's the unfortunate side effect of this is
people will gravitate towards the wrong people
because they think that they know something they
don't. When in reality, they either inherited
their money, maybe they got lucky, maybe they're
very unethical. There's a bunch of different
reasons why that is. And a lot of people work
hard for their money. So I'm just saying, it's
not the great barometer that people think it
is. Yeah, no, it's not. I have found very wealthy
people that really are dumber than a box of rocks.
They just, they're just, how did you possibly
get this wealthy? Because you don't know anything.
And sometimes, sorry, I don't mean to cut you
off. Sometimes I think it's because they're actually
too dumb. Sorry, this is really uncharitable.
And this is not everyone I want to explain. But
some people are too dumb to ever introspect.
And they never stop and think, am I good? Do
I deserve this? Am I good enough? What am I doing
wrong? They don't have that imposter syndrome.
And sometimes it's like a superpower because
they literally can just go for it. And they think
that they're God's gift to mankind. And they
will just go and get it and grab everything they
can and have no second thoughts about it. I can't
do that. I don't, I always have second thoughts
about, am I doing things the right way? Am I
deserving of this? Am I giving back enough? All
those things. Anyway, sorry, I didn't mean to
cut you off, but. No, it's, I'm always looking
into myself after I do a speaking engagement
or workshop or something else like that. I'm
looking like what. What can I do better? What
did I screw up on? Oh my God, I was so bad. I
shouldn't have said that. But, and have all the
tools. I have the QR code leading to my Google
doc sheet. Did I do this? This was it. And give
me a couple of stars. I have everything. Okay.
But I have to look within myself to see how well
I did. And that's not so easy to do. Have you
ever made a networking mistake that taught you
something important? A mistake or faux pas? Oh,
yeah. Oh, yeah. I've got a good one. When I was
25, I was going through Techstars Boulder. And
you can hear me now. I'm honest. And I'm not
mean. I really try to always be charitable to
people as best I can and try not to be an asshole.
But I definitely speak my mind. And especially
when my friends are hurting, I will speak my
mind. And I was 25 almost 10 years ago now. I
just moved to Colorado from Seattle for Techstars
Boulder 2015. And one of my friends who was CEO
of the company that I moved my whole life to
Colorado for was basically in tears because an
investor had told her no and had told her no
in a very, I think, aggressive, really unprofessional.
And I was in a coffee shop with her and I just
moved there like a week. before, two weeks before.
And I remember saying very vividly, look, if
that guy said that and he passed on you, then
that guy's a fucking idiot. And that's what I
said. I was like, I was trying to comfort my
friend. And also like, I'm sure there was a kernel
of truth in there. And then I'll never forget,
I got called into the Techstars main office like
two hours later. And they were like, hey. You're
new to Colorado, huh? I was like, yeah, I just
got here like a week and a half ago. And they're
like, yeah, so it's a really small world out
here. And you were at a coffee shop that everyone
goes to in this town. And somebody heard you
call someone a fucking idiot. And that immediately
got back to me before you left the coffee shop.
And I was like, oh my God. I was like, and then
I remember literally trying to mount a defense
in the office. And I was like, the reason he
passed was X, Y, and Z. And they were like, Colin,
whatever the case, you cannot say that about
people like in this community. Like you will
build a bad reputation very rapidly. And I, I
don't know if it's because I'm. I don't know.
I don't know why I did that aside from just trying
to comfort my friend. But that was such an important
moment for me because I was like, and that's
unlocked this thing that I tell people as a lesson
is speak well about people behind their back.
That is like one of my maybe a superpower is
I will sing somebody's praises often when they're
not around. And that I think also gets back to
people. And so that was, I think, a big moment
for me. I don't think I've ever spoken poorly
about somebody behind their back in the last
decade since that moment. Because it's not worth
it. And it's really not. It's not. And it taught
you a valuable lesson. And you learned from that
lesson. So I think it worked out pretty well.
I think it was funny when it happened. It was
embarrassing. It was a little embarrassing. Okay.
But I think it was good that it happened. And
listen, I went to the school of hard knocks.
I did everything wrong before I did it right.
So I had to learn things on the fly, just as
you did. But that was very good. In today's digital
first world, how can professionals make meaningful
connections without always being face to face?
Yeah, if you're asking specifically how to do
when you're not face -to -face, that is a toughie.
I would say going through existing warm introductions
is obviously the best way to do it. Don't force
a warm introduction. Don't go to somebody that
you barely know. And be like, hey, can you introduce
me to this other person that you barely know?
Because then it's just like, it's not a warm
introduction. It's kind of like an annoying,
hey, Colin, I met you one time at this event
like four years ago. And this other person who
I've met one time asked me, they saw I was chatting
with you on LinkedIn and they asked me to introduce
you. That's not a good way to go about it. So
I would say like actual warm introductions where
you connect with people, you get to know them.
And then organically, it could be months or years
later, like having known these people. If you
then ask them, hey, do you know anyone in this
field or this space? That's a really good way
to do it. So I would reach out to your personal
connection that you're really strong ones right
now. And I would ask them, do you know anyone?
that can help me with this and then they will
somebody will come to their mind that they have
a connection with and they may not even be connected
to that person on linkedin right because your
best am i connected to my best friend in the
world on linkedin no actually like most of them
not at all And so like most of my strongest connections
are actually offline or at least they're off
LinkedIn. And so you may miss the forest for
the trees completely. If you look at my Rolodex
on LinkedIn and you want to know who I know,
it's very much my strongest connections are not
on that platform. Yeah, it reminds me of my time
when I was sitting behind a desk. I had two Rolodexes.
They were filled. And now with digital and everything
else, it's a little bit less. And I don't have
that. I have my home desk. But the digital world,
because you can have your thousands and thousands
of connections on LinkedIn, but they're not relationships.
They're not relationships. That's the key. What
is your go -to networking move, something you
do consistently that brings results? It's so
funny. The best advice for all, and then totally
different for different people, depends on your
skills and your natural charisma and your extemporaneous
speaking ability. And first off, taking extemporaneous
speaking class, that may be a good tip. That's
one of the best things I've ever done. When I
was 13 years old, I took extemporaneous speaking
the summer before high school. And you had to
get, you had five minutes to memorize, to write
and memorize. So you had 30 minutes to write
and memorize a five minute speech on a random
topic that you pulled out of a hat. And that
was something like that was so educational for
me in terms of how to actually come up with something
on the fly and speak to people organically without
sounding like it's prepared. And so that may
be a good tip is go take an extemporaneous speaking
class and learn how to actually speak without
thinking. And then the second thing I would say
is, again, there's an old adage. If you want
money, ask for advice. And if you want advice,
ask for money. And I think that's really true
in networking. If you want network connections,
try to build, like, I think. So don't approach
it. If you want professional connections, be
personal. Like what you were saying earlier with
the form is that I don't think about it in those
terms, but if I can get to know somebody on a
personal level, what they do, why they do it,
why it speaks to them, why they dedicated their
lives to this, what their major challenges are,
like all these things are good questions to ask
people, but not in an interrogatory way. That's
the other thing is like people, sometimes people
interrogate me. They're like, what are your biggest
challenges right now? And I'm like, oh dude,
I have so much anxiety. Don't make me list out.
My biggest challenge is right now, I go to sleep
thinking about these business problems. I don't
ask me if I'm excited that the Panthers are defending
the Stanley Cup or ask me if I have any kids
or if I have any nieces and nephews or ask me
where I'm from and like where I went to school.
And that's what I like to do with people. And
then once I get to know them, like it's just
an organic conversation. So that's my best advice
to people as much as you possibly can. Just talk
to people like a normal conversation. That's
great advice. Great advice. That's where form
comes in. That's just to help you bring in different
ideas of different people, different things,
whatever. But that is great sound advice. Anybody
that's listening should really listen to that.
Now let's bring this full circle. What mindset
should people adopt if they want to build a network
that leads to real opportunity, not just business
cards? Oh, you should be the person that everyone
leaves the room thinking about. I guess that's
maybe the best way to put it. And part of this
is knowing your audience, right? So this also
goes back to pitching in front of a crowd. If
you know your audience and you understand the
feeling you want to leave them with, like when
I pitch in front of a crowd, when I get off the
stage, I want every, first off, you have to know
your audience. Are they investors? Are they buyers?
Or are they lay people? Are they just there to
be entertained? Who is your audience? And then
once you understand who they are, you can understand
how you want to make them feel. So if you go
to a networking event and your audience is other
professionals who are busy, who are working on
their own problems, who are consumed with their
own things, okay, great. They don't really give
a fuck about my problems or like the things that
I'm working on necessarily. Maybe they care more
about people who have a common empathy and understanding
for the challenges that they're going through.
And maybe they want a friend who they can talk
to openly. without fear of being judged or a
fear of being too vulnerable because startup
CEOs are never allowed to take off their rose
-colored optimism glasses. They're never allowed
to speak freely about the challenges that face
their company. And so if I go to a networking
event and I understand that these people are
people like me and I can empathize with them
and I can make them feel like when they leave
the room, like, that guy Colin? I can be open
with him. I can be myself with him. I can be
vulnerable with him. And I feel like he's being
honest with me, so I will be honest with him.
That is, I think, the best feeling that I like
to leave people with. And so I think that's probably
the best rule I can give you is know your audience,
understand the feeling you want to leave them
with, and then go out and achieve that. And there's
multiple ways to achieve your goal. And you'll
get a lot of clarity in thinking about when I
leave the room, how are they going to feel? Are
they going to feel like I was selling them something?
Are they going to feel like I only gave a shit
about their credit card number? Are they going
to feel like I'm desperate? Are they going to
feel like I'm a entrepreneur? Are they going
to feel like I have no valuable experience to
share, that I can't empathize with them, that
I was self -absorbed? Those are all things that
people do feel about people when they leave networking
events. Like every single time you go to one,
you will meet people that make you feel exactly
like that. And so that's a disaster. You never
want that. Think hard and decide before you go
in how they're going to feel about you when you
leave. That's great advice. That's a great advice
for anybody. Even I'm thinking about how I leave
the room, how I leave people, because I want
them to have the lasting impression of my talk
and everything else. That's great advice. Colin,
I can't begin to tell you how I enjoyed this
podcast, because you spoke about everything that
I truly believe in. If somebody wanted to get
hold of you, how would they get hold of you?
I am very easy to find. I am on LinkedIn, but
I do not post. I do not subscribe to the LinkedIn
lunatic theory of networking. Although there
are some valuable posts on there sometimes. But
Colin McIntosh, you can find me at my two main
companies, Sheets and Giggles. And then if you're
a job hunter and you need some resume help, sheetsresume
.com is my passion project that I do on the side.
And my emails, I think for both of those sites
are public on the website and you can reach me
pretty easily. That's great. Colin, thank you
for coming on the podcast. I hope everybody enjoyed
what you had to say. Thanks, Michael. I appreciate
you having this really fun conversation. Well,
hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let me just
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-U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
perfect. It's about being present. So take what
you've learned today, get out there, and make
some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
a review, and share it with someone who could
use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
Spotify, YouTube, or my website, Michael. Remember.
Until next time, keep practicing, keep connecting,
and keep building those relationships. This is
Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take care and
happy networking. being coached, or having me
come and talk to your company, just go to Michael
and fill out the request form. Remember, networking
isn't about being perfect. It's about being present.
So take what you've learned today, get out there,
and make some meaningful connections. If you've
enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to
subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with
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Let's keep the conversation going. You can find
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