WEBVTT 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:17.480 Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, where we 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:21.199 explore the real power of relationships and how 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.780 they drive business success. I'm your host, Michael 00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:27.519 Foreman, and today we're diving into a conversation 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:32.259 that bridges behavior, communication, and cybersecurity 00:00:32.259 --> 00:00:35.460 in a way you've probably never heard before. 00:00:35.740 --> 00:00:39.500 My guest is an expert in using positive reinforcement 00:00:39.500 --> 00:00:43.149 training method. positive reinforcement training 00:00:43.149 --> 00:00:47.229 methods to teach cyber literacy, challenging 00:00:47.229 --> 00:00:50.310 the fear -based tactics we often see in fake 00:00:50.310 --> 00:00:53.490 phishing tests. He believes that how we train 00:00:53.490 --> 00:00:56.969 people to protect data is deeply connected to 00:00:56.969 --> 00:01:00.329 how we build trust, communicate, and network 00:01:00.329 --> 00:01:03.619 in the digital world. If you've ever wondered 00:01:03.619 --> 00:01:07.140 how human behavior impacts everything from password 00:01:07.140 --> 00:01:10.420 habits to professional partnerships, this is 00:01:10.420 --> 00:01:13.560 the episode for you. So let's explore how a more 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:16.319 positive, connected approach could be the future 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:20.239 of both cybersecurity and networking. I would 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:24.140 like to welcome Craig onto the podcast today, 00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:27.500 and he is the expert that I was so diligently 00:01:27.500 --> 00:01:31.459 speaking about. Craig. How are you? Welcome to 00:01:31.459 --> 00:01:33.459 the show. And give us a little bit about your 00:01:33.459 --> 00:01:37.019 background. Michael, that is a wonderful introduction. 00:01:37.099 --> 00:01:39.319 Thank you for having me today. I'm really excited 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:43.299 to be here. And I do agree with you in that introduction 00:01:43.299 --> 00:01:48.060 how positive reinforcement and experiences between 00:01:48.060 --> 00:01:51.400 professionals, between IT departments and employees, 00:01:51.700 --> 00:01:55.560 between partnerships. really has the ability 00:01:55.560 --> 00:02:00.120 to solidify, strengthen, and enhance relationships. 00:02:00.420 --> 00:02:04.519 So it makes a perfect fit in my mind for being 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:08.180 on Networking Unleashed. This is exactly the 00:02:08.180 --> 00:02:10.860 kind of thing we need more of. And so thank you 00:02:10.860 --> 00:02:13.520 for that. My background, just a brief introduction. 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:16.699 I've been doing cybersecurity after I got a psychology 00:02:16.699 --> 00:02:20.840 degree in the early 90s. Before there was a World 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.460 Wide Web, I got into cybersecurity. My first 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:25.759 job out of college after a psychology degree 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:28.919 was for a firewall vendor. And I must have bought 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.240 a stack of books that would go up about three, 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:34.560 four feet off the floor. They were all the O 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:36.479 'Reilly books. I don't know if anyone would remember 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.699 those, but they had an animal on each cover. 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.280 So there was Sendmail and there was DNS and Bind 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.639 and all these different internet protocols. I 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:45.460 had to read and learn because I didn't have a 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:47.669 computer science degree. But I'd been on the 00:02:47.669 --> 00:02:50.810 internet since the early days, since before modems, 00:02:50.810 --> 00:02:53.409 when you had fixed connections and we had to 00:02:53.409 --> 00:02:56.289 convince companies to when they're networking 00:02:56.289 --> 00:02:58.969 into the internet to change the sense of that. 00:02:59.550 --> 00:03:02.169 to put a firewall in place. Since that time, 00:03:02.229 --> 00:03:04.789 I've worked at many Fortune 5000 companies like 00:03:04.789 --> 00:03:07.729 CSC, Computer Sciences Corporation is what that 00:03:07.729 --> 00:03:11.009 is, and Vistaprint, JPMorgan Chase. And then 00:03:11.009 --> 00:03:13.409 I've really branched out 10 years ago. I founded 00:03:13.409 --> 00:03:17.389 CyberHoop to bring cyber literacy to the masses. 00:03:17.490 --> 00:03:20.449 And we have this big, hairy, audacious goal or 00:03:20.449 --> 00:03:23.930 a BHAG of training a billion people with a B 00:03:23.930 --> 00:03:27.509 on cyber literacy skills. We'll see how far we 00:03:27.509 --> 00:03:31.330 get. That's me in a nutshell, though. Now, I 00:03:31.330 --> 00:03:33.430 want to tell you that I remember the Internet 00:03:33.430 --> 00:03:38.270 when it was strictly for military and teachers. 00:03:38.969 --> 00:03:42.150 The hard wire for those, it was really incredible 00:03:42.150 --> 00:03:45.229 to see where it's come and where it's going to 00:03:45.229 --> 00:03:48.210 go. But you're going to help us with that. So 00:03:48.210 --> 00:03:52.150 let me hit the first question. You approach cyber 00:03:52.150 --> 00:03:55.840 literacy using positive reinforcement. How do 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:59.560 those same principles apply to how we build and 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:04.000 maintain professional networks? Positive reinforcement 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.159 theory is defined. It might help to explain that 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.500 a little bit. When you're trying to affect human 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:12.199 behavior, you can use negative reinforcement 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:15.580 or positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement, 00:04:15.740 --> 00:04:19.139 by its very definition, is designed to reduce 00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:22.850 some behavior. thing you don't like. If you put 00:04:22.850 --> 00:04:25.370 a shock collar on a dog and it zaps the dog when 00:04:25.370 --> 00:04:27.769 they bark or when they get too close to the edge 00:04:27.769 --> 00:04:30.589 of your property, that's reducing those behaviors. 00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:33.389 But it doesn't teach the dog anything positive 00:04:33.389 --> 00:04:37.230 or valuable. So to do that, you would need to 00:04:37.230 --> 00:04:39.730 have treat -based approach with that dog. You 00:04:39.730 --> 00:04:41.310 take it to the dog park and you give it treats 00:04:41.310 --> 00:04:44.509 when it does the behaviors you want to see. And 00:04:44.509 --> 00:04:47.449 so when you're talking about relationships, and 00:04:47.449 --> 00:04:50.660 this is right out of Stephen Covey and some of 00:04:50.660 --> 00:04:52.339 the other great books that have been written 00:04:52.339 --> 00:04:55.899 you want to reinforce in the other person or 00:04:55.899 --> 00:04:57.639 in the relationship the good things that you 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:01.500 want to see it makes no sense to me to try to 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:04.000 control another person with negative reinforcement 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.839 by cajoling them by embarrassing them by shaming 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.439 them and so if you wouldn't do that in a personal 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:13.160 relationship or in a partnership or a friendship 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:17.449 why would you do it in a business to try to affect 00:05:17.449 --> 00:05:20.189 behaviors of your employees it doesn't make sense 00:05:20.189 --> 00:05:23.949 so applying the any of the best practices that 00:05:23.949 --> 00:05:26.750 you and i have both read about right listen first 00:05:26.750 --> 00:05:31.790 to understand your friend your partner your colleague 00:05:31.790 --> 00:05:35.269 and then to be understood if you apply that principle 00:05:35.269 --> 00:05:37.930 you're going to be very successful in business 00:05:37.930 --> 00:05:40.189 and networking and all of the all the good things 00:05:40.189 --> 00:05:42.310 that come from that because other people just 00:05:42.310 --> 00:05:45.149 want to be heard And so you need to do that in 00:05:45.149 --> 00:05:47.589 the same sense with your employees. And that's 00:05:47.589 --> 00:05:50.290 what we've taken a strategic approach towards 00:05:50.290 --> 00:05:54.290 in my company. Does that answer your question? 00:05:54.569 --> 00:05:57.709 Yeah, it does. Being a former business owner 00:05:57.709 --> 00:06:01.029 in pizzerias, restaurants and things like that. 00:06:01.209 --> 00:06:04.089 And really the relationship you have with your 00:06:04.089 --> 00:06:08.889 employees is that positive reinforcement. There's 00:06:08.889 --> 00:06:11.089 a big difference between a boss and a leader. 00:06:11.410 --> 00:06:15.329 Yes. If you're a boss, you're just shouting whatever 00:06:15.329 --> 00:06:18.029 that the upper management is doing. And negatively, 00:06:18.310 --> 00:06:19.769 however it affects, it doesn't really matter 00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:22.329 to you. You just go on your way. But being a 00:06:22.329 --> 00:06:27.449 leader helps you with that positive reinforcement. 00:06:28.050 --> 00:06:32.269 It teaches those people under you to be leaders. 00:06:32.850 --> 00:06:34.889 Right. And that's really the major difference. 00:06:35.110 --> 00:06:39.589 But okay. So why do you believe negative reinforcement 00:06:39.589 --> 00:06:44.399 like... fake phishing emails does more harm than 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.899 good in cybersecurity training, and how might 00:06:47.899 --> 00:06:51.319 that mindset also impact business relationships? 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.480 Okay, great. So that's a two -part question. 00:06:54.540 --> 00:06:58.839 The first part is very simple. When you send 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:02.180 fake email messages to your employees to test 00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:06.519 their cyber literacy skills, a bunch of different 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:10.720 negative outcomes occur. First, for anyone that 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.920 hasn't been trained previously and that's anyone 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:15.740 that's come out of an educational institution 00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:17.860 whether it's high school or university they have 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:20.620 zero cyber literacy training they may have computer 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:23.379 literacy so they can read the email they can 00:07:23.379 --> 00:07:25.639 respond to these emails they can click on things 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.279 but they don't know anything about why they shouldn't 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.699 click on links they probably know There are links 00:07:33.699 --> 00:07:35.519 out there that I shouldn't click on, but they 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:37.740 don't know how to identify them. And so they're 00:07:37.740 --> 00:07:40.740 full of anxiety and fear. And when you send these 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:43.740 messages, it just increases those negative affects, 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.120 the feelings of inadequacy, insecurity, anxiety, 00:07:48.500 --> 00:07:51.279 and shame if they were to make a mistake. Some 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.500 companies go so far as to say you have a three 00:07:53.500 --> 00:07:55.620 strikes rule. If you click on three fake emails, 00:07:55.740 --> 00:07:58.199 you're fired. And that's common in banking industry 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:01.579 where they have zero tolerance for risk. That 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:04.939 just alienates the employee from their IT department 00:08:04.939 --> 00:08:08.300 or their managed service provider. It's eroding 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:11.060 that relationship every single time they get 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:13.720 an email. And it's not always because they clicked 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:17.019 on it. Sometimes the emails are so simple minded 00:08:17.019 --> 00:08:21.060 that the employees enraged at how stupid. The 00:08:21.060 --> 00:08:23.220 IT department thinks I am that I would click 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:26.579 on that. It's too easy to identify as a fake 00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:29.220 email and it's of questionable value, right? 00:08:29.300 --> 00:08:31.620 Why are they wasting my time with these things? 00:08:31.740 --> 00:08:35.059 On the other hand, there are IT departments who've 00:08:35.059 --> 00:08:37.960 had a mandate to catch as many people as possible 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:42.389 to boost our false. click rates on fake emails 00:08:42.389 --> 00:08:45.649 so that we can justify our budget and they make 00:08:45.649 --> 00:08:48.509 things like holiday bonus emails and everybody 00:08:48.509 --> 00:08:51.690 clicks everybody fails and everybody's irate 00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:54.649 chaos ensues you don't have to believe me you 00:08:54.649 --> 00:08:57.570 can go to reddit and search phishing p -h -i 00:08:57.570 --> 00:09:01.429 -s -h email chaos and you'll see dozens of reddit 00:09:01.429 --> 00:09:04.200 threads where people are like Who does this? 00:09:04.259 --> 00:09:06.620 Why would they do this to us right around Christmas 00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:08.419 or the holidays or this time of year or that 00:09:08.419 --> 00:09:11.919 time of year? So it's causing this negative affect. 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:15.440 But the second problem with it is the technology 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:19.720 itself is broken. You cannot send a phishing 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:23.220 email to the inbox of a user as a fake email 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:27.480 test with any resemblance to the vendor you're 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:29.659 impersonating for the simple reason that one 00:09:29.659 --> 00:09:34.750 spam report will. lead that email to the owner 00:09:34.750 --> 00:09:37.070 of the correct domain. So if it was a Microsoft 00:09:37.070 --> 00:09:40.649 impersonation attempt to see if someone would 00:09:40.649 --> 00:09:42.830 click on a reset your password for Microsoft, 00:09:42.929 --> 00:09:45.710 and it had anything related to Microsoft in the 00:09:45.710 --> 00:09:47.789 domain name of the fake email sent to the inbox, 00:09:48.110 --> 00:09:50.809 Microsoft lawyers will contact the vendor of 00:09:50.809 --> 00:09:53.950 that technology and say, cease and desist. You 00:09:53.950 --> 00:09:57.330 cannot impersonate us. And I know this from personal 00:09:57.330 --> 00:10:00.649 firsthand experience. We've had three companies 00:10:00.649 --> 00:10:03.789 sue us or threatened to sue us if we didn't stop 00:10:03.789 --> 00:10:07.289 using a domain name that had some minor resemblance 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:10.389 to their company name in it. Zoom, I don't have 00:10:10.389 --> 00:10:13.049 any problems telling you this because some companies 00:10:13.049 --> 00:10:16.090 won't bother with you, others will. Zoom, the 00:10:16.090 --> 00:10:19.710 IRS, and Facebook, Meta, all threatened us with 00:10:19.710 --> 00:10:21.950 lawsuits if we didn't stop impersonating them. 00:10:22.529 --> 00:10:24.950 Now, why does that matter, Michael? In the grand 00:10:24.950 --> 00:10:30.080 scheme of things, realism matters. And if you 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.559 can't impersonate a domain name as a hacker would, 00:10:33.740 --> 00:10:38.259 the end users are going to be dumbed down. By 00:10:38.259 --> 00:10:40.600 that, I mean they'll learn that an obviously 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:43.100 wrong domain name from Microsoft email is all 00:10:43.100 --> 00:10:46.059 I need to know. And so when a hacker sends a 00:10:46.059 --> 00:10:48.519 Microsoft domain name that they managed to register 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:50.860 for a short period of time, maybe a week or two, 00:10:50.940 --> 00:10:54.710 and they've taken the M. And now visualize this 00:10:54.710 --> 00:10:57.070 if you're listening to this. Take that M in Microsoft 00:10:57.070 --> 00:11:02.309 and change it into an R and an N. Leave the iCrosoft 00:11:02.309 --> 00:11:05.429 in there and put on an account reset or something 00:11:05.429 --> 00:11:08.330 in the middle so that people see Microsoft .com 00:11:08.330 --> 00:11:11.049 in there. And suddenly you've got everyone clicking 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:13.149 because they haven't been trained to look for 00:11:13.149 --> 00:11:15.950 typosquatted domain names or for a domain that 00:11:15.950 --> 00:11:19.590 is off by a single letter. So that also flaws 00:11:19.590 --> 00:11:22.210 the... traditional fake email testing. We're 00:11:22.210 --> 00:11:25.129 getting into the weeds here. But suffice it to 00:11:25.129 --> 00:11:27.350 say this, I'll conclude this point with the following. 00:11:27.450 --> 00:11:30.110 A study by the University of Zurich in 2020 of 00:11:30.110 --> 00:11:33.090 14 ,000 people over 15 months concluded that 00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:36.990 unexpectedly, fake email phish testing leads 00:11:36.990 --> 00:11:40.470 employees to click more, not less. Full stop. 00:11:40.690 --> 00:11:43.809 So it doesn't work. And it's a $6 billion exercise. 00:11:44.509 --> 00:11:47.350 And it leads to negative experiences for your 00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:50.820 employees. and for your clients. So why are we 00:11:50.820 --> 00:11:54.460 doing this? It doesn't make any sense. So the 00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:58.159 opposite is also true. If you were to do, as 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.519 we do at CyberHoot, a fake email phishing simulation 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.159 that doesn't send the email to the inbox, but 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:07.080 brings you to a website where we can impersonate 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.740 the rnicrosoft .com. And in the moment, if you 00:12:11.740 --> 00:12:13.980 don't know what to look for, we have a help you 00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:17.029 guide that gives you the answer. in sort of an 00:12:17.029 --> 00:12:20.570 open book test, ensuring that the stimulus is 00:12:20.570 --> 00:12:23.470 this domain safe and the response, here's the 00:12:23.470 --> 00:12:26.490 answer, are paired closely together. That's the 00:12:26.490 --> 00:12:29.669 best of operant conditioning or human behavior 00:12:29.669 --> 00:12:33.610 modification, giving you the answer and the information 00:12:33.610 --> 00:12:37.570 in a realistic setting that allows you to learn 00:12:37.570 --> 00:12:42.509 how to fish. So all of that's to say that. The 00:12:42.509 --> 00:12:45.929 employees actually appreciate being taught how 00:12:45.929 --> 00:12:48.929 to fish instead of being tricked with realistic 00:12:48.929 --> 00:12:53.610 examples. And best of all, it's 100 % automated. 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:55.750 You don't have to punch holes in your infrastructure. 00:12:56.289 --> 00:12:59.669 Secondly, you get metrics on every last person 00:12:59.669 --> 00:13:03.149 doing this because we track the delivery. You're 00:13:03.149 --> 00:13:06.769 providing every employee a positive experience, 00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:10.309 an educational experience, and a reward system. 00:13:10.730 --> 00:13:12.750 we haven't even talked about rewards, but gamification, 00:13:13.169 --> 00:13:15.870 certificates of completion, continuing education 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:20.210 credits, and an avatar that grows in ferocity 00:13:20.210 --> 00:13:23.190 that you can compare yourself with your peers, 00:13:23.269 --> 00:13:26.509 your colleagues, your employees, and you can 00:13:26.509 --> 00:13:29.629 show growth and improvement in cyber literacy 00:13:29.629 --> 00:13:33.840 maturity. All of those things are positive reinforcements, 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.779 no different than taking a dog to the dog park 00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:39.220 to have fun and teach them skills with treats 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:41.659 instead of throwing a shock collar on. And when 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:44.539 they bark, boom, zap them. Or when they get too 00:13:44.539 --> 00:13:48.120 close to the property edge, zap them. That's 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.620 great. That's great. And there are so many things 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:55.100 that I wanted to ask you, but because of time, 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:56.539 I'm going to have to go to the next question. 00:13:56.779 --> 00:14:01.340 You always answer. In the entirety of the question, 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.659 and that I really appreciate. From your experience, 00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:08.320 how can business leaders create a culture of 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:11.379 trust, both in networking and cybersecurity, 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.700 without relying on fear -based tactics? It's 00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:19.230 communication. we started out this conversation 00:14:19.230 --> 00:14:21.450 today michael with communication and making it 00:14:21.450 --> 00:14:23.610 listening to understand and being good leaders 00:14:23.610 --> 00:14:26.950 to communicate the goals and objectives of your 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:29.730 company and if you do that in the goals and objectives 00:14:29.730 --> 00:14:32.549 of cyber literacy you're going to reward the 00:14:32.549 --> 00:14:34.309 relationships that you have with your employees 00:14:35.019 --> 00:14:38.919 If instead you send no notice fake email phishing 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:41.759 tests and people get caught up in that and then 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.080 they're punished or shamed or even fired for 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:46.940 multiple offenses, you're creating a culture 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:52.320 of fear, anxiety, and deceit. And no one wants 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.820 to work in those places. If you go deep into 00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:56.460 those Reddit threads I mentioned, you'll see 00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:58.840 people who threaten to quit. They said, this 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.039 is the last straw. I can't believe they're doing 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:03.240 this to us. I'm going to start looking for work 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.080 elsewhere. Is that the kind of culture a leader 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:09.259 wants to have in their company or in their networked 00:15:09.259 --> 00:15:12.399 French, the networking that they establish? It's 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:16.200 anathema to great relationships. And so when 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.159 you focus on good communication, education before 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:23.080 testing. I'm not suggesting you never send a 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:26.000 fake email test to verify. There was an old saying 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.500 in the 80s, Reagan, about, I forget what it was 00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:30.600 in context of, maybe Star Wars at the time, but 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:34.080 trust but verify. Yes, you can send a fake email 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.899 at some point in the future to measure that they've 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:41.320 learned how to fish, but that's after you've 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:43.360 taught them the skill set. Then it's perfectly 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.820 fair to ask them to prove that they know. But 00:15:46.820 --> 00:15:48.879 in the beginning, before anyone's received training, 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.600 that's not good leadership or good relationship 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:55.539 building. Training is the key amongst everything 00:15:55.539 --> 00:15:58.659 else, even more so in what we're talking about. 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:02.940 But if you have a properly trained employee, 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.879 you'll get far better results. But going along 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:12.100 the communication thread, you've said cyber breaches 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:15.879 haven't changed much in 25 years. What do you 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.899 think about the communication gaps in organizations 00:16:18.899 --> 00:16:25.779 today? There's been a study that a company called 00:16:25.779 --> 00:16:28.200 Verizon, you probably heard of them. They do 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.840 a report every year on the breaches that have 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.379 occurred in the previous year. They do it every 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:35.960 year for 25 years now. And they did a longitudinal 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:40.240 study that said in 2003, the number one way companies 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:41.860 were breached was social engineering delivered 00:16:41.860 --> 00:16:45.559 via email. That's called phishing. And in 2023, 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:50.039 the same thing is true. The breaches we see are 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:54.000 sourced from phishing attacks, caused by phishing 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.379 attacks and people that are unaware of it. And 00:16:56.379 --> 00:17:00.679 yet businesses are still focused on this communication 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:04.279 style of gotcha. Let's send those gotcha emails 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:06.460 to see if people click because we've got to tamp 00:17:06.460 --> 00:17:08.920 down clicks. We got to stop the bad behaviors. 00:17:09.789 --> 00:17:12.390 But in anything, if you don't communicate the 00:17:12.390 --> 00:17:15.009 good behaviors that you're looking for, people 00:17:15.009 --> 00:17:18.930 are going to be fearful, anxious, and disillusioned 00:17:18.930 --> 00:17:21.309 with the leadership in this company, in your 00:17:21.309 --> 00:17:24.650 company. And so you're doing your company a disservice 00:17:24.650 --> 00:17:28.109 by not communicating the behaviors you want to 00:17:28.109 --> 00:17:31.450 see. And we can go back into it, but I've described 00:17:31.450 --> 00:17:33.769 it. Looking through the email indicators of a 00:17:33.769 --> 00:17:37.109 phishing attack. teaching those skills and saying 00:17:37.109 --> 00:17:40.390 we want to see more of the knowledge that protects 00:17:40.390 --> 00:17:43.069 our company and if you see something say something 00:17:43.069 --> 00:17:46.269 on other events as well so communication all 00:17:46.269 --> 00:17:48.670 boils back down to communication michael and 00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:51.289 the problem with the industry of cyber security 00:17:51.289 --> 00:17:53.950 is it's so immature it doesn't recognize this 00:17:53.950 --> 00:17:56.750 yet it's almost like growing pains where that 00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:59.700 you know seven -year -old who doesn't want to 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:02.339 go to bed in cybersecurity, I'm not tired, but 00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:04.599 they are tired. And it's clear. The industry 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:08.019 doesn't realize, I don't want to stop. I want 00:18:08.019 --> 00:18:11.480 to stop the clicks without recognizing there's 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:13.880 a positive way to go about that, that everyone 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:17.220 will actually pay attention to. One final point 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:20.559 on this. Psychology is my background. Psychologists 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:23.220 have studied human behavior and they've concluded 00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:27.289 that positive reinforcement methods are the most 00:18:27.289 --> 00:18:30.990 powerful behavior modification methods on the 00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:35.009 planet. Put in real terms, a slot machine has 00:18:35.009 --> 00:18:38.049 a variable rate positive reinforcement schedule 00:18:38.049 --> 00:18:41.569 that really encourages people to keep pulling 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:44.369 that slot machine lever to see if they're going 00:18:44.369 --> 00:18:47.950 to win something, even as paltry as 50 cents, 00:18:48.150 --> 00:18:51.009 10 nickels. And that reinforces that behavior. 00:18:51.230 --> 00:18:53.789 Gambling is a very powerful reinforcement structure 00:18:53.789 --> 00:18:56.650 because it's variable rate. Negative reinforcement 00:18:56.650 --> 00:19:01.009 only works when the negative outcome is a certainty 00:19:01.009 --> 00:19:04.910 and just doesn't change behaviors. And we know 00:19:04.910 --> 00:19:08.390 this from psychology. So apply that to the way 00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:10.289 you operate your business, the way you network, 00:19:10.470 --> 00:19:12.809 the way you communicate with people. And you'll 00:19:12.809 --> 00:19:17.109 see that if you want people to really value your 00:19:17.109 --> 00:19:20.569 relationship, you need to treat them with positive, 00:19:20.670 --> 00:19:23.589 good communication, listening skills, and that 00:19:23.589 --> 00:19:27.640 sort of thing. Okay. All right. Great. In what 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:32.160 ways are our digital behaviors, like how we handle 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.039 emails and passwords, reflections of our professional 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:40.059 communication habits? Let me think about this. 00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:44.519 So professional communication habits. Sorry, 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.299 Michael, can we repeat that question? And I'm 00:19:47.299 --> 00:19:50.660 trying to wrap my mind around it. Okay. In what 00:19:50.660 --> 00:19:54.269 ways are our digital behaviors? like how we handle 00:19:54.269 --> 00:19:57.809 emails and passwords reflections of our professional 00:19:57.809 --> 00:20:03.750 communication habits so for that i'm going to 00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:07.009 say that if you comport yourself or behave in 00:20:07.009 --> 00:20:11.529 a way that is a win -win scenario for the person 00:20:11.529 --> 00:20:13.829 on the other end of the communication you're 00:20:13.829 --> 00:20:17.230 following up in what in my books is the best 00:20:17.230 --> 00:20:20.559 leadership style available i see a lot of this 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:22.740 and i don't think we want to get into politics 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.700 but i see a lot of win -lose in our politics 00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:28.359 today in order for one side to win the other 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.579 has to lose and in communications in a corporate 00:20:31.579 --> 00:20:34.880 environment or on a business to business environment 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.880 you can never win with a win -lose communication 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.619 style You have to find common ground. You have 00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:45.299 to find the overlapping concentric circles that 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:48.119 say, hey, if we do it this way, you're going 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.960 to win and we're going to win. And together, 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.660 the result is more than the sum of the parts. 00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:56.960 So I think if you follow the approach of trying 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.900 to find win -win scenarios with your colleagues, 00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:02.799 with your communication style, you're going to 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.319 be successful in business. You're going to be 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.500 successful in life as opposed to any sort of 00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:12.349 a win -lose scenario. Does that? Yeah, that explains 00:21:12.349 --> 00:21:15.990 it just a little bit. But if, let's say, a company 00:21:15.990 --> 00:21:19.589 who did not hire CyberHoot and all of their employees 00:21:19.589 --> 00:21:22.670 go on their emails and everything else and they're 00:21:22.670 --> 00:21:26.190 getting into bad habits and they continually 00:21:26.190 --> 00:21:29.849 do everything they're not supposed to do, but 00:21:29.849 --> 00:21:33.609 they're doing it habitually. So they can do it 00:21:33.609 --> 00:21:36.259 by getting negative results and say, ah. So what? 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:39.539 And they go on forth and do it again until Cyberhood 00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:41.960 comes in and says, you're doing this all the 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.119 wrong way. And you get them to correct their 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:50.359 habits. So the difference between having a company 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:53.700 like Cyberhood and a company just not having 00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:57.259 anybody is a huge difference. And you're really 00:21:57.259 --> 00:22:03.259 putting the company at risk by just having all 00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:05.789 the employees just go willy -nilly. by themselves. 00:22:06.190 --> 00:22:12.230 So the habits are very important. Sure, absolutely. 00:22:12.529 --> 00:22:15.250 I'll just add on to that. I think I agree completely 00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:19.410 with you. The reality is people don't know what 00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:21.329 they don't know with regards to cybersecurity. 00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:26.329 And so they may worry to some extent about it, 00:22:26.369 --> 00:22:28.910 but without knowledge of what the consequences 00:22:28.910 --> 00:22:33.519 are, they have no reinforcement. positive or 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.359 negative to change their habits but if you give 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:40.119 them the why if you explain to your staff with 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:42.779 a tool like cyberhood or with any sort of cyber 00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:46.359 literacy training why you don't want to use passwords 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:49.299 everywhere you go the same password why you need 00:22:49.299 --> 00:22:51.599 to adopt a password manager why you need to learn 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.059 how to fish because these are clear and present 00:22:55.059 --> 00:22:58.319 dangers we all face the third largest economy 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:02.049 in the world last year was cyber crime in terms 00:23:02.049 --> 00:23:06.450 of revenue generated by email compromise, ransomware, 00:23:06.549 --> 00:23:10.650 extortion, wire fraud. That's after only the 00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:12.630 United States and China's economies, and they're 00:23:12.630 --> 00:23:14.829 in the multiple trillions. Cybercrime was in 00:23:14.829 --> 00:23:17.789 the trillion dollars of benefit to the hackers, 00:23:17.930 --> 00:23:20.569 which is attracting more hackers to that profession. 00:23:21.009 --> 00:23:24.589 And so people don't know this. It's good to hear 00:23:24.589 --> 00:23:27.650 this on our podcast today and to learn that because 00:23:27.650 --> 00:23:31.950 it provides the necessary reinforcement that 00:23:31.950 --> 00:23:34.730 you have to do something. An ounce of prevention 00:23:34.730 --> 00:23:36.990 on cyber literacy training with your employees 00:23:36.990 --> 00:23:39.970 is going to be worth and solve a pound of cure 00:23:39.970 --> 00:23:42.930 down the road with an incident. You want to avoid 00:23:42.930 --> 00:23:46.309 those incidents if at all possible. The operative 00:23:46.309 --> 00:23:49.789 word that I keep hearing is training. You have 00:23:49.789 --> 00:23:53.490 to be trained. And again, that's where CyberHoot 00:23:53.490 --> 00:23:58.279 comes in. It's to train your employees for these 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:01.720 types of things, but training is the key. Now, 00:24:01.779 --> 00:24:05.460 can you share a real world example of where a 00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:08.779 more empathetic or positive approach led to both 00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:13.220 cyber hygiene and stronger workplace or client 00:24:13.220 --> 00:24:17.779 relationships? Certainly. I have a minor study 00:24:17.779 --> 00:24:20.599 that we did a few years back with one of our 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.720 IT providers. They had about 50 clients and they 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:30.559 put 40 of them into CyberHoot, 10 refused. And 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:32.859 then we monitored what happened over the subsequent 00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:35.920 three -year period. Now, keep in mind, this is 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:38.640 an MSP, a managed service provider who provides 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:42.359 IT support to 50 companies around New England. 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:46.480 After three years, 40 of the companies remained 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:50.220 clients. The 40 that were in CyberHoot receiving 00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:54.059 positive reinforcement, receiving... training, 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:57.700 educational training that was gamified, rewarding, 00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:01.119 and all of that good stuff, they remained clients 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:06.259 of the MSP. Of the 10 who refused that positive 00:25:06.259 --> 00:25:09.279 relationship and the benefits that came with 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:11.259 it, with training and with positive reinforcement, 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.599 of the 10, two canceled their MSP agreements 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.319 in that three -year period. It's a small study, 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.660 but what does that mean? it means there was real 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:25.000 value being delivered to each and every individual 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.180 receiving training from the tool each month potentially 00:25:28.180 --> 00:25:31.200 perhaps there were other reasons here's the other 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.380 statistic that was really eye -opening for the 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:37.720 business owners of the 40 that were in cyber 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.079 who there wasn't one major security incident 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:44.619 in the 10 that refused cyber who there were two 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.259 major security incidents that led to downtime 00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:52.700 and costly recovery efforts and the loss of clients 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:56.180 from a lack of protection of data. If you have 00:25:56.180 --> 00:25:59.099 a ransomware event today, it's a double extortion 00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:01.599 conundrum, right? The hackers are going to encrypt 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.519 your data, which you can hopefully restore from 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:05.660 backup, but they're going to exfiltrate it or 00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:07.700 take it out of your company and publish it to 00:26:07.700 --> 00:26:10.299 the internet to embarrass you or threaten to 00:26:10.299 --> 00:26:12.980 embarrass you unless you pay that ransom. And 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:15.539 so the loss of I just this year went through 00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:17.700 it with a client who had a ransomware event. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:19.980 The data was being threatened to be released. 00:26:20.140 --> 00:26:23.420 They had to notify all their clients that they 00:26:23.420 --> 00:26:25.539 had been breached and explain how they were going 00:26:25.539 --> 00:26:27.940 to prevent that from happening again. And I guess 00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:30.559 the moral of this story or the lesson learned 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.980 is that through positive reinforcement, but through 00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:36.180 positive interactions with your clients, you 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:40.309 can both increase retention. reduce the threat 00:26:40.309 --> 00:26:43.130 of a breach, a costly breach, either as your 00:26:43.130 --> 00:26:45.029 own company or at the companies you support, 00:26:45.289 --> 00:26:48.789 and build those relationships and those networks 00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:52.289 where people actually talk to other companies 00:26:52.289 --> 00:26:55.410 in the area. And we got new business because 00:26:55.410 --> 00:26:58.210 of this positive reinforcement training that 00:26:58.210 --> 00:27:02.349 we delivered at that MSP to other businesses. 00:27:02.589 --> 00:27:06.950 So it helped you win new business. Okay, so let's 00:27:06.950 --> 00:27:10.089 move to the leaders and the professionals in 00:27:10.089 --> 00:27:14.250 whatever environment. How can leaders and professionals 00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:18.730 train themselves and their teams to be more cyber 00:27:18.730 --> 00:27:22.950 aware and more relationally intelligent at the 00:27:22.950 --> 00:27:28.849 same time? When you understand this coin that 00:27:28.849 --> 00:27:31.109 I like to call negative and positive reinforcement, 00:27:31.549 --> 00:27:35.089 you understand that. there are so many benefits 00:27:35.089 --> 00:27:39.289 to creating relationships based on positive experiences 00:27:39.289 --> 00:27:41.910 right there's an old sales strategy i'm sure 00:27:41.910 --> 00:27:44.690 you're aware of it you want to give your client 00:27:44.690 --> 00:27:48.450 something three times three different ways maybe 00:27:48.450 --> 00:27:51.109 even three different methods an email or a phone 00:27:51.109 --> 00:27:54.210 call or some other benefit that you can extend 00:27:54.210 --> 00:27:57.490 to them before you make your first request for 00:27:57.490 --> 00:28:01.579 something on your side and in building that relationship 00:28:01.579 --> 00:28:06.259 through those positive give give scenarios you're 00:28:06.259 --> 00:28:09.839 going to be heard and perhaps reciprocated on 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:12.799 that request let's do business together why don't 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:16.940 you buy our service our product and if you've 00:28:16.940 --> 00:28:21.099 done a great job of providing value to that relationship 00:28:21.099 --> 00:28:24.559 ahead of time through positive interactions you're 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:27.869 going to be successful in business and if on 00:28:27.869 --> 00:28:30.349 the other hand you don't follow that approach 00:28:30.349 --> 00:28:33.609 and your first thing the first request out of 00:28:33.609 --> 00:28:36.210 your relationship is an ask give me something 00:28:36.210 --> 00:28:39.750 that's viewed as a negative or a negative reinforcement 00:28:39.750 --> 00:28:42.710 to that relationship and people won't pay attention 00:28:42.710 --> 00:28:44.970 to it they won't respond to your email they won't 00:28:44.970 --> 00:28:49.450 engage and so i think it's a common psychological 00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:54.329 phenomenon that for the world to work effectively 00:28:54.329 --> 00:28:57.910 together You have to be asking yourself and as 00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:00.569 a leader in your company, showing your employees 00:29:00.569 --> 00:29:03.950 and your partners, your clients, that you're 00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:06.990 out looking out for them and demonstrate that 00:29:06.990 --> 00:29:10.390 over and over again, probably before you make 00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:12.970 your first request for assistance or for a purchase 00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:16.029 or for some relationship building connection. 00:29:16.390 --> 00:29:20.309 In the networking world, going to networking 00:29:20.309 --> 00:29:24.359 events or meeting with people. You should always 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:28.440 think to give and not receive. That's if you 00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:32.220 have a servant's heart. Zig Ziglar really said 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:36.640 this the best, but when you are looking to give, 00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:40.759 it takes all the stress, all the anxiety, all 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:43.599 the negative feelings out whenever you're going 00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:45.559 to a networking event or something else like 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.440 that, because you're just saying, look, when 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.660 I sit down with somebody, when I'm interested 00:29:50.660 --> 00:29:54.490 in creating that relationship, My question to 00:29:54.490 --> 00:29:58.630 him or her is, how can I make you more successful? 00:29:59.069 --> 00:30:01.990 How can I be a good referral source for you? 00:30:02.670 --> 00:30:05.549 And I usually blows them away. Like, I don't 00:30:05.549 --> 00:30:08.349 even know what you do yet. It doesn't matter. 00:30:08.609 --> 00:30:11.390 So after he goes or she goes through the entire 00:30:11.390 --> 00:30:14.190 process, we exchange business cards and everything 00:30:14.190 --> 00:30:16.750 else, but they walk away. They're going to remember 00:30:16.750 --> 00:30:21.690 me, but you have to follow through with. helping 00:30:21.690 --> 00:30:24.710 them, referring them or something else. But that 00:30:24.710 --> 00:30:28.390 line of how can I make you more successful? If 00:30:28.390 --> 00:30:34.269 you have that as a mindset, really have it, not 00:30:34.269 --> 00:30:37.589 just like blowing smoke, then it'll change your 00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:40.869 world. And it will really change the way that 00:30:40.869 --> 00:30:45.259 people view you as well. Okay. May I just comment 00:30:45.259 --> 00:30:47.119 on that? Absolutely. Look at what you're doing 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:49.960 for us today at CyberHoot. Michael, you've invited 00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:52.500 me onto your podcast. You've asked for nothing. 00:30:52.660 --> 00:30:55.640 You've offered to highlight my company. You've 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:59.740 highlighted some of the high points and the benefits 00:30:59.740 --> 00:31:02.960 of my company, all without ever asking me for 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.160 anything other than to be a guest on your show. 00:31:05.299 --> 00:31:08.559 You're living and breathing the Zig Ziglar approach. 00:31:09.309 --> 00:31:12.789 to networking. And that's why your podcast called 00:31:12.789 --> 00:31:15.990 Networking Unleashed. This is very empathetic 00:31:15.990 --> 00:31:20.789 or a great example of that comment. Thank you. 00:31:20.849 --> 00:31:23.289 And thank you. I try to live that way. If it 00:31:23.289 --> 00:31:25.430 lands on people, that's fine. If not, that's 00:31:25.430 --> 00:31:28.309 fine too. But let's bring this whole podcast 00:31:28.309 --> 00:31:31.869 full circle. Okay. What's your vision for the 00:31:31.869 --> 00:31:35.700 future? where networking, communication, and 00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:39.119 cybersecurity are all aligned to build safer, 00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:43.799 smarter, and more connected organizations. I 00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:48.859 would really love if the cybersecurity industry 00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:54.059 as a whole grew up past its tantrum years and 00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:56.920 said, we're going to embrace positivity. We're 00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.599 going to follow Zig Ziglar's give before asking 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:05.779 approach. zero in on the positive behaviors we 00:32:05.779 --> 00:32:09.940 want to see in the world of employees, email 00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:13.460 processing, password hygiene, all the cybersecurity 00:32:13.460 --> 00:32:17.640 skills. Because by adopting the positive measures 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:20.579 that we're talking about, by reinforcing through 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:26.500 benefits and giving employees kudos for accomplishing 00:32:26.500 --> 00:32:29.039 things and certificates of completion, all the 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:31.740 things that we've tried to focus in on within 00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:35.259 cyber who to teach cyber literacy skills and 00:32:35.259 --> 00:32:37.400 then some that we haven't think thought of i'd 00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:39.980 love to expand into other areas we're going to 00:32:39.980 --> 00:32:44.180 be a model to the industry to help course correct 00:32:44.180 --> 00:32:46.839 from this negative reinforcement approach of 00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:50.559 reducing bad behaviors which leads to poor relationships 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:54.579 which leads to broken partnerships And instead, 00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:57.380 course correct to a positive experience, to a 00:32:57.380 --> 00:33:00.259 win -win scenario, to building and strengthening 00:33:00.259 --> 00:33:03.559 client retention through all of these good things 00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:07.519 that make people feel good. Learning and protecting 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:11.980 themselves and understanding the whys, why all 00:33:11.980 --> 00:33:14.539 of cybersecurity matters so much, which is still 00:33:14.539 --> 00:33:17.299 a vacuum for most people. I think that would 00:33:17.299 --> 00:33:22.190 be my heart's goal of... cyber hoot. And if I 00:33:22.190 --> 00:33:25.009 had a legacy, it would be to move us from negative 00:33:25.009 --> 00:33:27.329 to positive. And I think that would be a really 00:33:27.329 --> 00:33:30.869 good approach for most companies to embrace, 00:33:30.970 --> 00:33:33.950 to really reward and benefit their employees. 00:33:34.970 --> 00:33:39.230 Thank you so much. This was all very insightful 00:33:39.230 --> 00:33:42.750 for those people that didn't have this in mind 00:33:42.750 --> 00:33:46.109 for their employees, or even for them just working 00:33:46.109 --> 00:33:48.730 by themselves. It gave them food for thought. 00:33:49.150 --> 00:33:53.210 So if you wanted to have somebody contact you, 00:33:53.269 --> 00:33:56.569 either just to talk to you about cybersecurity 00:33:56.569 --> 00:33:59.789 or to hire you, what's the best way to do it? 00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:02.950 There's three things I'll share with you. One 00:34:02.950 --> 00:34:06.309 is we give Cyberhood away to any individual for 00:34:06.309 --> 00:34:08.530 free for life. So if you're sitting out there 00:34:08.530 --> 00:34:10.889 and you don't have a company or even if you do, 00:34:10.989 --> 00:34:13.849 but you're not sure about things, sign up for 00:34:13.849 --> 00:34:17.130 free to learn about cyber literacy. We'll give 00:34:17.130 --> 00:34:19.739 you our... positive reinforcement, HootFish and 00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:22.579 our awareness training videos for free, go to 00:34:22.579 --> 00:34:25.699 cyberhoot .com slash individuals with an S on 00:34:25.699 --> 00:34:27.960 the end, and you'll get everything we do for 00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.860 free. The second thing I'll say is that as a 00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:34.780 thank you for being on your show, anyone that 00:34:34.780 --> 00:34:38.500 registers for a trial, a free trial, 30 days, 00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:40.400 and we're month to month after that, we'll get 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:43.889 a 20 % discount on their rates. whether it's 00:34:43.889 --> 00:34:46.969 a reseller or a direct, if they use the code 00:34:46.969 --> 00:34:51.170 NETWORKINGUNLEASHED in honor of Michael Foreman, 00:34:51.210 --> 00:34:53.449 we'll give you a 20 % discount code for life. 00:34:53.630 --> 00:34:56.800 It won't go away. It'll be there forever. And 00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.099 then thirdly, if you really just want to find 00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:03.199 out more, email sales at cyberhoot .com and we'll 00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:05.400 reach out to you. We can do a demo. We can share 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.039 whatever information you're after. So thank you 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.659 for the opportunity to give you those things 00:35:10.659 --> 00:35:14.519 as a listener of this wonderful podcast. Craig, 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.800 thank you very much. Thank you for coming on 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:20.800 the show. And you've been a great guest. My pleasure. 00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:25.219 Thank you, Michael. Well, hold on, folks. Don't 00:35:25.219 --> 00:35:28.039 go anywhere. Let me just read a few of our sponsors 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:31.719 that we have. Struggling to read success? Maybe 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:34.900 it's time to quit. In Quit Your Way to Success 00:35:34.900 --> 00:35:39.800 by Rodney Davis. This reveals 27 steps to breaking 00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:42.760 bad habits that hold you back. This powerful 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:46.500 book helps you rewire your mindset, take control 00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:49.599 of your actions, and turn setbacks into stepping 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.929 stones. With real -life examples. motivational 00:35:52.929 --> 00:35:56.889 quotes, and actionable lessons, especially for 00:35:56.889 --> 00:35:59.130 sales professionals. You'll gain the tools to 00:35:59.130 --> 00:36:01.530 quit, what's stopping you, and start winning. 00:36:01.750 --> 00:36:05.230 Transform your future today. So Quit Your Way 00:36:05.230 --> 00:36:08.789 to Success by Rodney Davis, available now on 00:36:08.789 --> 00:36:12.889 Amazon. And this is a non -profit called Revved 00:36:12.889 --> 00:36:16.429 Up Kids. This is something I believe in wholeheartedly. 00:36:17.190 --> 00:36:20.269 Revved Up Kids is on a mission to protect children 00:36:20.269 --> 00:36:24.150 and teens from sexual abuse, exploitation, and 00:36:24.150 --> 00:36:26.489 trafficking. They provide prevention training 00:36:26.489 --> 00:36:29.969 programs for children, teens, and adults. To 00:36:29.969 --> 00:36:33.949 learn more, go to revvedupkids .org. That's R 00:36:33.949 --> 00:36:40.889 -E -V -V -E -D -U -P -K -I -D -S dot org. A huge 00:36:40.889 --> 00:36:43.190 thank you to our guests for sharing such incredible 00:36:43.190 --> 00:36:46.710 insights today. And of course, a big shout out 00:36:46.710 --> 00:36:50.010 to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in 00:36:50.010 --> 00:36:52.909 and spending your time with us. If you're interested 00:36:52.909 --> 00:36:56.289 in my digital courses, being coached, or having 00:36:56.289 --> 00:36:59.429 me come and talk to your company, just go to 00:36:59.429 --> 00:37:02.650 Michael and fill out the request form. Remember, 00:37:02.969 --> 00:37:06.269 networking isn't about being perfect. It's about 00:37:06.269 --> 00:37:09.190 being present. So take what you've learned today, 00:37:09.369 --> 00:37:11.989 get out there, and make some meaningful connections. 00:37:12.710 --> 00:37:15.630 If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't 00:37:15.630 --> 00:37:18.969 forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share 00:37:18.969 --> 00:37:21.170 it with someone who could use a little networking 00:37:21.170 --> 00:37:24.210 inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going. 00:37:24.389 --> 00:37:28.869 You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, 00:37:29.050 --> 00:37:33.710 or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts.