and welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building
Profitable Connections. Welcome back to the show,
folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
listening to the podcast where networking is
more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
corner at every event pretending to check emails.
Networking isn't just a nice skill to have. It's
a game changer. When you get good at it, you'll
wonder why you didn't start sooner. More connections,
more opportunities, more profits. It's like unlocking
a cheat code for life. I've got a guest today,
John Follis. And I have to tell you, he is everything
that I am striving to be. He is that he's got
that type of background. I am a speaker and so
is he. And he's at the he says he's retired,
which I personally don't understand. You can
never retire from speaking. But let me just say
that at 33, John co -founded a Madison Avenue
ad agency that became one of the most successful
in the country. And before I butcher his background,
I'm going to introduce John Follis and have him
give you a little bit more. John, welcome to
my show. Hey, Michael. So glad to be on your
show. Thanks for inviting me. No problem. Tell
us a little bit about your background. As you
mentioned, I worked in New York City for most
of my career, not all of it, but for about 25
years. And worked for some of the big agencies
on some big brands like Pizza Hut and Volkswagen.
And then I switched gears and took an entrepreneurial
route, started freelancing. And through that
experience, connected with a business development
guy who turned out to be my partner. And because
of the business that we were able to pick up
pretty quickly after working together. Well,
we soon found ourselves as a partner in an ad
agency and very quickly grew the agency and became
one of the most successful in New York. We were
winning all kinds of awards. We were beating
out all the big agencies in the award shows,
which was pretty exciting when you're just 33,
34 years old. And I didn't have to worry about
networking because he was such a great business
development guy. He was doing all the required
networking. Shortly after that partnership started,
I ended up branching off and starting another
agency on my own. And at that point, I really
had to get my networking skills up to speed.
So you and I talked a little bit prior to this
interview. I shared a little bit of my perspective
on that with you, which is why I think you thought
I would have something interesting to share here.
It's good. I am told you I'm very interested
in what you would have to say. But let's just
go right into my questions. How did you first
discover the power of public speaking as a networking
tool? I think everyone in business has had the
experience of going to a big networking event
that has a speaker. And people do a little chit
chat. In the beginning, they have their bad coffee
or their good coffee, whatever the case may be.
And then everyone takes a seat and listens to
the presentation, the speaker. And after going
through that experience more times than I wish
to recall, I realized, and I should say, coming
away from those experiences with less than positive
experiences because In those situations, you
come across a lot of salespeople who within seconds
are shoving their business card in your face
and just going on and on about how great they
are, their businesses. And it's really not, I
just found it's not, in most cases, not in every
case, but in most cases, not a very effective
environment to network. What occurred to me after
going through those experiences a number of times
was instead of going to an event that had a speaker
and listen where I could listen to the speaker,
I decided maybe it would be good if I became
the speaker. Because I can't imagine any other
better way of connecting, not just with a few
people in the audience. but with every person
in the audience than being the featured speaker,
right? So once, to me, that was a game -changing
understanding. Then the question became, would
I have the balls to learn how to have the confidence
to get myself up in front of an audience and
do that? But once I decided that was a strategy
that would be a good strategy to take because...
Again, New York is a very competitive place,
and your success really depends on the connections
you make. And so I felt like I had no choice.
I wanted to do whatever it took to make the connections
I needed to make to be successful. So I just
made a decision. I had to become a good public
speaker and do that. Very astute. I have found,
really, as of the pandemic, that the days of
building your customer list is passé. It's building
relationships. And what you do with those relationships
and how you follow up with those relationships
is really key. And that's probably the revelation
that you came across. You said, you know what?
I'm meeting all these people, but I'm not getting
anywhere. when you start to build those relationships,
then you start getting a little traction. What
are your top three strategies for turning a speaking
engagement into valuable network connections?
First of all, I would say to be talking about
a topic that people give a damn about. That's
the beginning. You don't want to bore people.
And in addition to the topic, you've got to make
sure your presentation is engaging because you
could be talking about something that everyone
is interested in. But if you bore them in the
first three minutes to that presentation, they're
not going to be listening to it. So then it becomes
a challenge. How do you get interested? And as
an advertising guy, as a creative person, that
was a challenge that I was more than happy to
take because I was able to apply my creativity
using visuals or whatever it took. In many cases,
it involved a PowerPoint presentation or some
kind of visual presentation that I felt could
really help in keeping them engaged in the conversation.
So that would be another tip. And lastly, and
I'm sure you can appreciate this, is make it
easy for them to get in touch with you. Make
it and repeat it multiple times so it's not just
up there for 10 seconds. That if they don't have
their phones ready to take a picture of it or
a pen ready to write down your website or email,
that they're going to be able to capture whatever
information they need to follow up with you.
So have that information and repeat it. In fact,
have it on every slide if you're doing a PowerPoint
presentation. Have whatever contact information
they need. It doesn't have to be big. It could
be small in the corner, but have that easily
seen in your presentation so they can follow
up with you if they want to. Very good. Very
good. Okay. How would you define personal brand
and why it's crucial for networking? If anyone
understands the concept of a brand, if they're
in a business and if they are the head of that
business, especially if they basically the business
is them, like in your case, right? Your business
is essentially you are the face of your business,
especially in a situation like that. Your personal
brand is critical. And just the way a brand is.
important for any larger business. Apple has
a brand, for example. That's how people are going
to perceive you. And just because you're one
person, it doesn't mean that you don't have to
think about a brand. Even if you're one person,
you still have a personal brand. The more that
you can develop not just a brand, but a positive
brand that's going to be something that people
are going to be attracted by, more success I
think you're going to have in business. That's
very true because your personal brand, because
people think that your personal brand, if you're
a solopreneur, then you are your personal brand,
but you can have a team of people yet you are
the face of your brand and still it's your personal
brand. But it's very important that you maintain
that brand when you look at the billboards nowadays.
and accident attorneys. Always the guy with his
name and that's it. No contact information or
anything. That is building his brand so that
all you know of is him and what number to call.
Eventually, hopefully, we can get to that point.
Okay, so what steps can someone take to start
developing their personal brand today? Well,
the first step is to decide what that brand is
because it's not going to be the same for everyone.
So a brand, whether it's for Apple or whether
it's for you or I, has to come out of something
that's true about the product. You can't say
you're the best if you're not. You can't say
so because people find that out pretty quickly
if it's bullshit. It really has to come up from
a true essence of who you are and what you're
about. For example, when I split off from my
business partner and all of a sudden had to start
thinking of what my brand was going to be for
my new agency, it was pretty simple. And that
was that our agency did work that got people
excited. Just very simple, very simple concept.
That may have been true for other agencies. They
just weren't saying it. And certainly many of
them weren't proving it by their work. I wasn't
going to say that, have that be my brand, if
I didn't truly believe that I could back that
up with the work that I did for our clients.
So on my business card, I wish I had one handy.
If you go to my website, the first thing you're
going to see is a visual of some crazy excited
eyes. And that was on my business card. So when
I handed out my business card to anyone, it didn't
look like your typical business card. I don't
know. This is going to not be on video for a
lot of people, but it's not going to look like
your typical business card. It had these crazy
excited eyes on it. And in often cases, it started
a conversation because it was just so unexpected.
That was just one example of how I focused on
the brand and how I built my brand. But again,
I had to back it up with everything I did. Absolutely.
And you have to, the first thing that you say
to somebody, prospective client or somebody,
it's that everybody talks about that 30 second
elevator speech. Listen, I help people perfect
that 30 -second elevator speech, but I say, no,
you should give it to them in five seconds. If
you can't draw their attention in that first
five seconds, the first sentence, then what are
you doing? You have to revamp it, revamp it again.
Because the saying, you know, fake it till you
make it, it doesn't exist. You have to know what
you're doing because, as you said, people can
see right through you and see whether or not
you're telling the truth or not. So it's very
true what you're saying. It's true what you're
saying. And I have a great story about the elevator
speech that relates to exactly what we're both
saying. I met someone in an elevator that ended
up in a meeting with that person a couple of
weeks later, which ended up in signing a deal
for a $93 ,000 project that required four months
of my time. So it came directly out of what you
just said and what I shared about my business
card because she was a keynote speaker at this
event that I had just attended. And when I was
leaving that event, I found myself in the elevator
with her. So I knew I had a 90 -second opportunity
until that elevator went from the 32nd floor
to the ground floor. to try to connect with this
person. And I was very sincere. I said, listen,
I just heard your presentation. I was very impressed
by it. Great job. To which she then said, thank
you. And who are you? What do you do? Which then
prompted me to give her, say what I just said.
I have a business that helps get your prospects
excited. And I handed her my business card. And
she looked at it. And she looked at it for about
five or 10 seconds. And then on the back of the
business card, I had a quote that said, if you
want people excited about your business, you
have to get them excited about your advertising.
So that kind of summed up that excited concept.
And after about 30 seconds of studying my business
cards, she said, you know something, this may
be the best business card I've ever seen. I don't
have time to chat now, but let's have lunch.
And like I said, that lunch that we had after
the conversation we had, which probably lasted
an hour and a half where she got to know a little
bit more about my business, turned into an offer
to do this $93 ,000 project that really only
took, actually was less than four months of my
time. So again, to your point, the power of,
you know, what I say when people say the elevator
speech, the last thing it should be is a speech.
That's the last thing. What it should be, there's
a term in advertising, it's called a teaser.
Maybe you know what that is. So that's what it
should be. The whole point of this elevator speech
is not to tell them what you do. It's to tell
them enough to want to know more about what you
do when they get off the elevator. Tell them
just enough so that they have to ask you a question.
So they want to know, so they don't want the
conversation to end when you get off the elevator.
They want to keep talking about you. If you did
that, then you won. You've achieved the goal
of that elevator pitch, elevator speech. But
that's very true. And that's quite a nice story.
So let's change a little bit. And what were some
of the obstacles you faced when building your
network through public speaking? But how did
you overcome them as well? Trying to think. So
I don't know if your audiences are seeing me,
but I'm an old guy. It's been a while since I've
done this. I'm 70. I've been retired about 10
years. So you're asking me questions about things
that were done 30 years ago. So I'm trying to
think of some obstacles. I guess there's always
an obstacle. Anytime you're up in front of people
speaking, you may have people talking. You may
have some interruptions. It may not be the best
environment to give a presentation. Maybe the
audio equipment is not. working the way it should
be. So there are all kinds of things that can
go wrong, right, when you're giving a presentation.
And I think the challenges of something like
that happens is to just try to ignore it as well
as you can and just do the best job you can under
those circumstances. Yeah, I've found when...
I've gone onto stages and something like that
hasn't worked, whether it was the audio, whether
the visual didn't work or something else like
that. I owned it right away and I made fun of
it. I made a joke about it and everybody had
a good laugh and we moved on, but I moved on
without the video or audio, whatever the case
might be. There was one time where even the floor
became unbalanced. So I made a joke about that.
So it's just a matter of what comes your way.
You have to make a joke of it and just own it
and move on. That's all. Yeah. You have to have
the ability to improvise. Absolutely. And be
prepared for any situation. And being a public
speaker, that's synonymous with that. Because
you have to be able to roll with just about everything.
Can you share a specific example of how a speaking
opportunity led to a significant networking breakthrough.
I think your elevator story pretty much summed
that up. So do you want to add something to that?
I can't think of a better example. It's a prime
example. It really is. I don't know that would
ever happen again if I had a career that lasted
100 years. That was just a very... And it just
proves that you never know when there's going
to be an opportunity that you could benefit.
from you just don't know that's true that's true
and it just the point is situation okay okay
now i'm going to shift this a little bit to an
online question and tell me if it's a little
bit past where you are because i don't know how
active you are online How do you leverage social
media and online platforms to enhance your personal
brand and networking efforts? Sure. You're right.
I don't need to be hustling anymore, but I can
still answer that question. Maybe you can relate
to this. I'm sure some of your listeners can
relate to this. It astounds me on how many people
don't realize how important their LinkedIn profile
is. and many of them have nothing for the masthead
that goes behind their photo, and they haven't
maxed out everything you can do on LinkedIn.
You can do so much on LinkedIn. You could post
images. You could post videos. You can really
max out your LinkedIn profile, and I just don't
understand why anyone, especially if they're
in a business, their own business, why they haven't
done that. So that would certainly be my first
suggestion is if anyone wants to. look at an
example. They could look at yours. They could
look at my LinkedIn page and they can see and
maybe get some ideas from that. The other thing
I would just say is take advantage of every social
media channel that you think your prospect might
be looking at. Again, it's not that hard to post
content on any social media platform. You just
have to be willing to take the time. to do it
i would just encourage everyone to if you don't
have an instagram page or profile put one up
if you don't have a youtube channel i think that's
important too i think video is really more important
than it has ever been facebook there's every
month there's a new social media channel it's
easy to get overwhelmed by it but there are certainly
three or four of them that you can't ignore that
you have to just take advantage of for sure.
Sure. And it's true that there's something new
coming out every month, but I believe that really
that all my listeners, that they should only
really pick one or two of them that they're really
going to fully get behind. Listen, I post every
day on LinkedIn, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram,
and YouTube. Okay. I post a reel, but I do that
twice a day. Every day. Wow. So it's just and
it's how you get a lot of traction. And really,
by them, by you posting as often and as consistently,
that's the key word, consistently as possible,
then the algorithms start to include you and
you go further and further out. But LinkedIn
is business. That's strictly business. Everything
else, just really stay out of it. Graham and
YouTube, that's great for reels and short videos
and things like that. Facebook, some people use
it for ads. Some people don't. They use it for
family. They don't. So that's up in the air.
But that's what I do. I am consistent every day.
The first thing in the morning when I get up
is I post on all the medias. I say it like it
takes me an hour. It takes me 30 seconds. OK,
because I use a program called Opus Clips and
I just break apart whatever video I have and
it gives me for 10 days and that posts on all
of them. You know, that's what I do. And I think
that's a very good option to work at. I would
just add I would add one more media platform
to that. Sure. As I said, I'm an old guy, but
if I was active right now in my business, I would
also be on TikTok. I think that is probably the
fastest growing social media platform. So you
could argue that's just teenage girls dancing,
but actually it's not. It's become, that's how
it started. But now if you go on TikTok, you
see a lot of very serious businesses using that
platform to market themselves for good reasons.
It's not that hard to just reformat your video.
If you already have the content, it's just a
matter of maybe reformatting it so it works for
TikTok and just uploading it. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're right. I didn't think about that because
I just... recently getting everything together
for TikTok because I was really waiting to see
whether it was going to happen with it, bought,
sold, whatever. But it seems like somebody's
going to buy it and it's going to remain in the
country. So I'm going to get behind that as well.
Yes, that's a very good idea. Let's talk about
authenticity. How do you balance being authentic
and crafting a polished professional, I'm sorry,
a polished personal brand image? They're not
mutually exclusive. They should be the same thing.
And I think it goes back to what we just talked
about. People are going to judge your image or
your brand or learn about you by what it is that
you put on the internet. Unless, you know, they're
seeing you in person. Most of the people are
going to know about you by... what you post.
I call it G cred. I came up with this term in
2006 called G cred, which is your Google credibility.
Do you have it? Do you have G cred? And the better
your content on the internet, social media platforms
defines your image. I think the more that they
will, your audience will have the image of you
that you want them to have. So it all comes down
to your ability to reinforce that image you just
described by the video, the writing, the interviews,
these podcasts. There's so many ways. There's
so many ways to create content. And all of it
has to funnel into that brand image, the way
that you want to be defined. It's got to continue
to reinforce that. That's right. That's right.
It makes you what you are on the internet. It
makes you are the way that you want to be perceived.
And you don't have to be afraid because people
ask me all the time, oh, I want to do a podcast,
but I was afraid to get started and things like
that. And I said, look, don't be afraid. Just
do it. Just get started. Start with a phone,
start with whatever, and just start podcasting
because after a while, you'll get better. and
better. And by the 10th, 12th, 15th podcast,
you look back at the first one and say, oh my
God, I sucked. I was so bad. Come on. Michael,
you don't know this because I haven't told you.
I used to have a podcast when my first podcast,
it was called The Marketing Show with John Follis.
Do you know when it went up? You want to guess?
Just by the way that you're talking, I'm going
to say 2000. Hey, Michael, podcasting didn't
start until mid 2005. I know that. So I had a
podcast went up in early 2006 and I did it for
seven years. See that? And that's what it's all
about. And now I think I read a stat that there's
4 million podcasts and it's growing every year.
It's just a matter of if you want to do it, You
want to get your word out, get your word out.
Most people just have fun with it. I love doing
a podcast because I'm speaking to you. I spoke
with somebody in Israel yesterday, somebody from
Australia, somebody, someone from the UK. It's
great. So it brings everybody together. Okay,
let's, I have two more questions for you. And
this one is concerning your success. What metrics
or indicators do you use to gouge the effectiveness
of your networking and personal branding efforts?
What metrics? There's different metrics that
people can use for success. For me, I didn't
graduate with a business degree. When I walked
out of my partnership with a guy who was a business
guy, When I was 35, I wasn't sure that I could
even survive. My background is creative. And
I tried to find a business partner that I thought
I needed in order to continue work. Having a
business in New York is not an easy thing to
do. It's probably the most competitive city in
the, if not the world, certainly the country.
And just the fact that the network, benefits
that I got, the results that I got as a result
of the networking that I did, the fact that it
enabled me to continue to have a successful business
for as long as I did, which was about 20 years
in New York City, I think was a real testament
to the power of good networking. So that's one
metric that I used. I also got a fair amount
of press. I won some awards. I was invited to
get speaking gigs at prestigious places like
the World Business Academy and Yale University.
Those were all, I think, metrics of the success
that I had. Absolutely. Absolutely. Not to mention
being invited to the White House and the UN.
That I think is pretty big. Who was the president?
So when I got invited, that was... In the dark
ages, 1991, and George Bush I was the president
back then. Yeah, I was in Desert Storm in 1991.
Ah, okay. So that's what I was doing. Wow. What's
the one piece of advice you'd give to someone
looking to use public speaking to expand their
professional network? One piece of advice for
someone using public speaking. expand their professional
network. I'm trying to think of a good answer
to that, Michael, other than stealing a tagline
from Nike, which is just do it. I think I say
that because there's so much fear associated
with public speaking. It's easy to talk yourself
out of doing it. And as I'm sure you would agree,
the more you do it, the more confidence you'll
have in doing it and the better you'll get at
it. So I would say just best advice is just get
started, right? Because that's the hardest step.
That's once you take that leap. And listen, also
do what you need to develop your confidence.
Here's a great piece of advice. Maybe you can
appreciate it. You're familiar with Toastmasters,
right? Sure. Yeah, okay. A lot of people aren't.
And I wasn't when I was in my 20s. But Toastmasters,
for anyone who doesn't know, is an international
public speaking organization that's been around
for, I don't know, 60 years at this point. And
anyone can join it. They have one in every city.
And it gives you an opportunity to practice your
public speaking skills. So that's certainly one
thing you can do to gain confidence. in public
speaking, as well as, of course, hiring you,
Michael. Absolutely. When I said for the podcasting,
just get started, when I just got started, I
did, of course, it was free then, but I just
did it to practice what I was talking about.
And I changed it every time. So eventually I
did 50 or 75 speaking gigs, you know, for free.
And people were ecstatic. They went, oh my God,
this is free. It's wonderful. But then you start
to charge and you charge a little bit more and
more. Of course, I'm not up to the Tony Robbins
stage yet, but you had to start somewhere. So
that piece of advice of just do it. Just do it.
Just get off your rear end and just start talking.
Go to a chamber of commerce and begin your speaking
career and see whether or not it's for you or
not. But that's all great. That's great. One
other thing I'll just add, Michael, is try to
have fun with it. Do you know what I'm saying?
Always have fun. If you stop having fun, get
out of the business. OK, always have fun. Always
have a good time. John, this was absolutely great
because. We are very much alike. And I really
enjoyed our conversation. If somebody wants to
get hold of you, what's the best way that they
can get hold of you? The simplest way, if they
know how to spell my name, is to just pop me
in Google, because I have been posting content
on the Internet since the Internet began. In
fact, one of the things I enjoy most is doing
podcasts like this. I don't have to work, but
I love talking about the business. I love having
conversations with people like you, people all
around the world. In the past couple of years,
I've done, at this point, over 80 podcasts. So
if anyone just pops my name, and the last name
is F -O -L -L -I -S, first name John, on the
internet, they'll see all kinds of stuff come
up. Actually, I can't wait. I'm going to actually
do that myself. John, thank you so much for coming
on my podcast. I'm sure my listeners got a lot
out of it. And I'll speak to you soon. Thanks,
Michael. Great chatting with you. Well, hold
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-U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
perfect. It's about being present. So take what
you've learned today, get out there and make
some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
a review and share it with someone who could
use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
Spotify, YouTube or my website. Michael A. Foreman,
remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep
connecting, and keep building those relationships.
This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take
care and happy networking.