WEBVTT 00:00:17.449 --> 00:00:20.929 and welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building 00:00:20.929 --> 00:00:23.989 Profitable Connections. Welcome back to the show, 00:00:23.989 --> 00:00:26.989 folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're 00:00:26.989 --> 00:00:29.449 listening to the podcast where networking is 00:00:29.449 --> 00:00:32.289 more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee. 00:00:32.630 --> 00:00:35.710 It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist. 00:00:35.929 --> 00:00:39.070 It's an art and talent you can actually learn. 00:00:39.310 --> 00:00:42.130 Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:45.229 corner at every event pretending to check emails. 00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:49.259 Networking isn't just a nice skill to have. It's 00:00:49.259 --> 00:00:52.020 a game changer. When you get good at it, you'll 00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:55.119 wonder why you didn't start sooner. More connections, 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:59.140 more opportunities, more profits. It's like unlocking 00:00:59.140 --> 00:01:03.299 a cheat code for life. I've got a guest today, 00:01:04.260 --> 00:01:10.099 John Follis. And I have to tell you, he is everything 00:01:10.099 --> 00:01:14.260 that I am striving to be. He is that he's got 00:01:14.260 --> 00:01:17.280 that type of background. I am a speaker and so 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:20.079 is he. And he's at the he says he's retired, 00:01:20.299 --> 00:01:22.700 which I personally don't understand. You can 00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:26.739 never retire from speaking. But let me just say 00:01:26.739 --> 00:01:31.780 that at 33, John co -founded a Madison Avenue 00:01:31.780 --> 00:01:35.019 ad agency that became one of the most successful 00:01:35.019 --> 00:01:39.180 in the country. And before I butcher his background, 00:01:39.459 --> 00:01:43.040 I'm going to introduce John Follis and have him 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:45.200 give you a little bit more. John, welcome to 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.060 my show. Hey, Michael. So glad to be on your 00:01:48.060 --> 00:01:51.840 show. Thanks for inviting me. No problem. Tell 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:54.319 us a little bit about your background. As you 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:56.980 mentioned, I worked in New York City for most 00:01:56.980 --> 00:01:59.420 of my career, not all of it, but for about 25 00:01:59.420 --> 00:02:03.719 years. And worked for some of the big agencies 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:06.400 on some big brands like Pizza Hut and Volkswagen. 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.039 And then I switched gears and took an entrepreneurial 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.560 route, started freelancing. And through that 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.300 experience, connected with a business development 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:23.580 guy who turned out to be my partner. And because 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:26.379 of the business that we were able to pick up 00:02:26.379 --> 00:02:29.120 pretty quickly after working together. Well, 00:02:29.139 --> 00:02:31.840 we soon found ourselves as a partner in an ad 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:35.860 agency and very quickly grew the agency and became 00:02:35.860 --> 00:02:38.939 one of the most successful in New York. We were 00:02:38.939 --> 00:02:41.280 winning all kinds of awards. We were beating 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.539 out all the big agencies in the award shows, 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:46.620 which was pretty exciting when you're just 33, 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:50.379 34 years old. And I didn't have to worry about 00:02:50.379 --> 00:02:53.759 networking because he was such a great business 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.000 development guy. He was doing all the required 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:01.039 networking. Shortly after that partnership started, 00:03:01.379 --> 00:03:05.560 I ended up branching off and starting another 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.960 agency on my own. And at that point, I really 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:11.360 had to get my networking skills up to speed. 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.699 So you and I talked a little bit prior to this 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:17.819 interview. I shared a little bit of my perspective 00:03:17.819 --> 00:03:20.520 on that with you, which is why I think you thought 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:22.659 I would have something interesting to share here. 00:03:24.490 --> 00:03:27.789 It's good. I am told you I'm very interested 00:03:27.789 --> 00:03:30.830 in what you would have to say. But let's just 00:03:30.830 --> 00:03:33.710 go right into my questions. How did you first 00:03:33.710 --> 00:03:37.509 discover the power of public speaking as a networking 00:03:37.509 --> 00:03:42.629 tool? I think everyone in business has had the 00:03:42.629 --> 00:03:45.110 experience of going to a big networking event 00:03:45.110 --> 00:03:50.370 that has a speaker. And people do a little chit 00:03:50.370 --> 00:03:53.340 chat. In the beginning, they have their bad coffee 00:03:53.340 --> 00:03:55.659 or their good coffee, whatever the case may be. 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:58.719 And then everyone takes a seat and listens to 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:02.360 the presentation, the speaker. And after going 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:06.639 through that experience more times than I wish 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:11.319 to recall, I realized, and I should say, coming 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:14.520 away from those experiences with less than positive 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:18.649 experiences because In those situations, you 00:04:18.649 --> 00:04:22.790 come across a lot of salespeople who within seconds 00:04:22.790 --> 00:04:25.370 are shoving their business card in your face 00:04:25.370 --> 00:04:29.350 and just going on and on about how great they 00:04:29.350 --> 00:04:33.250 are, their businesses. And it's really not, I 00:04:33.250 --> 00:04:36.689 just found it's not, in most cases, not in every 00:04:36.689 --> 00:04:38.829 case, but in most cases, not a very effective 00:04:38.829 --> 00:04:43.250 environment to network. What occurred to me after 00:04:43.250 --> 00:04:45.829 going through those experiences a number of times 00:04:45.829 --> 00:04:51.569 was instead of going to an event that had a speaker 00:04:51.569 --> 00:04:54.430 and listen where I could listen to the speaker, 00:04:54.550 --> 00:04:58.709 I decided maybe it would be good if I became 00:04:58.709 --> 00:05:03.689 the speaker. Because I can't imagine any other 00:05:03.689 --> 00:05:08.110 better way of connecting, not just with a few 00:05:08.110 --> 00:05:11.250 people in the audience. but with every person 00:05:11.250 --> 00:05:14.649 in the audience than being the featured speaker, 00:05:14.949 --> 00:05:19.670 right? So once, to me, that was a game -changing 00:05:19.670 --> 00:05:24.750 understanding. Then the question became, would 00:05:24.750 --> 00:05:28.389 I have the balls to learn how to have the confidence 00:05:28.389 --> 00:05:31.709 to get myself up in front of an audience and 00:05:31.709 --> 00:05:35.149 do that? But once I decided that was a strategy 00:05:35.149 --> 00:05:38.430 that would be a good strategy to take because... 00:05:39.019 --> 00:05:41.459 Again, New York is a very competitive place, 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:45.519 and your success really depends on the connections 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.019 you make. And so I felt like I had no choice. 00:05:49.060 --> 00:05:52.500 I wanted to do whatever it took to make the connections 00:05:52.500 --> 00:05:54.959 I needed to make to be successful. So I just 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:57.279 made a decision. I had to become a good public 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:05.250 speaker and do that. Very astute. I have found, 00:06:05.329 --> 00:06:09.410 really, as of the pandemic, that the days of 00:06:09.410 --> 00:06:13.490 building your customer list is passé. It's building 00:06:13.490 --> 00:06:16.709 relationships. And what you do with those relationships 00:06:16.709 --> 00:06:19.269 and how you follow up with those relationships 00:06:19.269 --> 00:06:23.050 is really key. And that's probably the revelation 00:06:23.050 --> 00:06:26.870 that you came across. You said, you know what? 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:29.589 I'm meeting all these people, but I'm not getting 00:06:29.589 --> 00:06:33.379 anywhere. when you start to build those relationships, 00:06:33.500 --> 00:06:36.759 then you start getting a little traction. What 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.079 are your top three strategies for turning a speaking 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.339 engagement into valuable network connections? 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:48.600 First of all, I would say to be talking about 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:53.860 a topic that people give a damn about. That's 00:06:53.860 --> 00:06:56.779 the beginning. You don't want to bore people. 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:59.379 And in addition to the topic, you've got to make 00:06:59.379 --> 00:07:02.240 sure your presentation is engaging because you 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:04.199 could be talking about something that everyone 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:07.560 is interested in. But if you bore them in the 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:12.240 first three minutes to that presentation, they're 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:16.879 not going to be listening to it. So then it becomes 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.459 a challenge. How do you get interested? And as 00:07:19.459 --> 00:07:22.180 an advertising guy, as a creative person, that 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:24.920 was a challenge that I was more than happy to 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:29.060 take because I was able to apply my creativity 00:07:29.060 --> 00:07:33.600 using visuals or whatever it took. In many cases, 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.540 it involved a PowerPoint presentation or some 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:39.819 kind of visual presentation that I felt could 00:07:39.819 --> 00:07:42.779 really help in keeping them engaged in the conversation. 00:07:42.779 --> 00:07:46.759 So that would be another tip. And lastly, and 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:49.240 I'm sure you can appreciate this, is make it 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:52.519 easy for them to get in touch with you. Make 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.259 it and repeat it multiple times so it's not just 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:58.399 up there for 10 seconds. That if they don't have 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:00.839 their phones ready to take a picture of it or 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:03.959 a pen ready to write down your website or email, 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.500 that they're going to be able to capture whatever 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.819 information they need to follow up with you. 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:13.360 So have that information and repeat it. In fact, 00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:15.060 have it on every slide if you're doing a PowerPoint 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:17.839 presentation. Have whatever contact information 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:22.699 they need. It doesn't have to be big. It could 00:08:22.699 --> 00:08:25.439 be small in the corner, but have that easily 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.500 seen in your presentation so they can follow 00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:31.959 up with you if they want to. Very good. Very 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:36.000 good. Okay. How would you define personal brand 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:41.330 and why it's crucial for networking? If anyone 00:08:41.330 --> 00:08:44.889 understands the concept of a brand, if they're 00:08:44.889 --> 00:08:48.909 in a business and if they are the head of that 00:08:48.909 --> 00:08:52.330 business, especially if they basically the business 00:08:52.330 --> 00:08:55.330 is them, like in your case, right? Your business 00:08:55.330 --> 00:08:57.610 is essentially you are the face of your business, 00:08:57.710 --> 00:09:00.610 especially in a situation like that. Your personal 00:09:00.610 --> 00:09:05.950 brand is critical. And just the way a brand is. 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.220 important for any larger business. Apple has 00:09:09.220 --> 00:09:12.460 a brand, for example. That's how people are going 00:09:12.460 --> 00:09:15.980 to perceive you. And just because you're one 00:09:15.980 --> 00:09:18.840 person, it doesn't mean that you don't have to 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.019 think about a brand. Even if you're one person, 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:24.960 you still have a personal brand. The more that 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.940 you can develop not just a brand, but a positive 00:09:28.940 --> 00:09:32.539 brand that's going to be something that people 00:09:32.539 --> 00:09:37.379 are going to be attracted by, more success I 00:09:37.379 --> 00:09:41.039 think you're going to have in business. That's 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:44.000 very true because your personal brand, because 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:47.000 people think that your personal brand, if you're 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:50.259 a solopreneur, then you are your personal brand, 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:53.360 but you can have a team of people yet you are 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:57.000 the face of your brand and still it's your personal 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.799 brand. But it's very important that you maintain 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:03.659 that brand when you look at the billboards nowadays. 00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:09.059 and accident attorneys. Always the guy with his 00:10:09.059 --> 00:10:12.320 name and that's it. No contact information or 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.659 anything. That is building his brand so that 00:10:15.659 --> 00:10:19.240 all you know of is him and what number to call. 00:10:19.700 --> 00:10:22.419 Eventually, hopefully, we can get to that point. 00:10:22.940 --> 00:10:27.299 Okay, so what steps can someone take to start 00:10:27.299 --> 00:10:31.919 developing their personal brand today? Well, 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:36.779 the first step is to decide what that brand is 00:10:36.779 --> 00:10:40.059 because it's not going to be the same for everyone. 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:45.059 So a brand, whether it's for Apple or whether 00:10:45.059 --> 00:10:48.740 it's for you or I, has to come out of something 00:10:48.740 --> 00:10:53.320 that's true about the product. You can't say 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:58.350 you're the best if you're not. You can't say 00:10:58.350 --> 00:11:01.049 so because people find that out pretty quickly 00:11:01.049 --> 00:11:04.129 if it's bullshit. It really has to come up from 00:11:04.129 --> 00:11:07.070 a true essence of who you are and what you're 00:11:07.070 --> 00:11:11.509 about. For example, when I split off from my 00:11:11.509 --> 00:11:13.389 business partner and all of a sudden had to start 00:11:13.389 --> 00:11:16.049 thinking of what my brand was going to be for 00:11:16.049 --> 00:11:20.289 my new agency, it was pretty simple. And that 00:11:20.289 --> 00:11:24.789 was that our agency did work that got people 00:11:24.789 --> 00:11:28.490 excited. Just very simple, very simple concept. 00:11:28.830 --> 00:11:31.850 That may have been true for other agencies. They 00:11:31.850 --> 00:11:34.389 just weren't saying it. And certainly many of 00:11:34.389 --> 00:11:37.049 them weren't proving it by their work. I wasn't 00:11:37.049 --> 00:11:39.590 going to say that, have that be my brand, if 00:11:39.590 --> 00:11:43.070 I didn't truly believe that I could back that 00:11:43.070 --> 00:11:45.049 up with the work that I did for our clients. 00:11:45.669 --> 00:11:49.049 So on my business card, I wish I had one handy. 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:51.899 If you go to my website, the first thing you're 00:11:51.899 --> 00:11:54.259 going to see is a visual of some crazy excited 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:58.000 eyes. And that was on my business card. So when 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:00.440 I handed out my business card to anyone, it didn't 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:03.259 look like your typical business card. I don't 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:05.860 know. This is going to not be on video for a 00:12:05.860 --> 00:12:07.779 lot of people, but it's not going to look like 00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:10.759 your typical business card. It had these crazy 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:15.269 excited eyes on it. And in often cases, it started 00:12:15.269 --> 00:12:18.009 a conversation because it was just so unexpected. 00:12:18.389 --> 00:12:21.409 That was just one example of how I focused on 00:12:21.409 --> 00:12:24.210 the brand and how I built my brand. But again, 00:12:24.269 --> 00:12:28.970 I had to back it up with everything I did. Absolutely. 00:12:29.049 --> 00:12:32.789 And you have to, the first thing that you say 00:12:32.789 --> 00:12:35.730 to somebody, prospective client or somebody, 00:12:35.889 --> 00:12:39.090 it's that everybody talks about that 30 second 00:12:39.090 --> 00:12:43.320 elevator speech. Listen, I help people perfect 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.740 that 30 -second elevator speech, but I say, no, 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.000 you should give it to them in five seconds. If 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.159 you can't draw their attention in that first 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.779 five seconds, the first sentence, then what are 00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:56.659 you doing? You have to revamp it, revamp it again. 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.039 Because the saying, you know, fake it till you 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.220 make it, it doesn't exist. You have to know what 00:13:03.220 --> 00:13:06.600 you're doing because, as you said, people can 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:08.919 see right through you and see whether or not 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:11.580 you're telling the truth or not. So it's very 00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:13.919 true what you're saying. It's true what you're 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.399 saying. And I have a great story about the elevator 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:21.200 speech that relates to exactly what we're both 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:27.059 saying. I met someone in an elevator that ended 00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:29.299 up in a meeting with that person a couple of 00:13:29.299 --> 00:13:32.600 weeks later, which ended up in signing a deal 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:38.120 for a $93 ,000 project that required four months 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:43.610 of my time. So it came directly out of what you 00:13:43.610 --> 00:13:46.750 just said and what I shared about my business 00:13:46.750 --> 00:13:50.549 card because she was a keynote speaker at this 00:13:50.549 --> 00:13:53.929 event that I had just attended. And when I was 00:13:53.929 --> 00:13:56.590 leaving that event, I found myself in the elevator 00:13:56.590 --> 00:14:03.269 with her. So I knew I had a 90 -second opportunity 00:14:03.269 --> 00:14:07.710 until that elevator went from the 32nd floor 00:14:07.710 --> 00:14:11.340 to the ground floor. to try to connect with this 00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:15.460 person. And I was very sincere. I said, listen, 00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:17.700 I just heard your presentation. I was very impressed 00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:22.360 by it. Great job. To which she then said, thank 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.200 you. And who are you? What do you do? Which then 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.860 prompted me to give her, say what I just said. 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.840 I have a business that helps get your prospects 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:36.399 excited. And I handed her my business card. And 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.850 she looked at it. And she looked at it for about 00:14:39.850 --> 00:14:44.409 five or 10 seconds. And then on the back of the 00:14:44.409 --> 00:14:47.429 business card, I had a quote that said, if you 00:14:47.429 --> 00:14:49.389 want people excited about your business, you 00:14:49.389 --> 00:14:51.009 have to get them excited about your advertising. 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:55.490 So that kind of summed up that excited concept. 00:14:56.610 --> 00:15:00.470 And after about 30 seconds of studying my business 00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:02.129 cards, she said, you know something, this may 00:15:02.129 --> 00:15:04.970 be the best business card I've ever seen. I don't 00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:07.450 have time to chat now, but let's have lunch. 00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:12.500 And like I said, that lunch that we had after 00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:15.100 the conversation we had, which probably lasted 00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:17.539 an hour and a half where she got to know a little 00:15:17.539 --> 00:15:20.600 bit more about my business, turned into an offer 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:25.259 to do this $93 ,000 project that really only 00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:27.639 took, actually was less than four months of my 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:32.620 time. So again, to your point, the power of, 00:15:32.740 --> 00:15:34.720 you know, what I say when people say the elevator 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.240 speech, the last thing it should be is a speech. 00:15:38.509 --> 00:15:40.549 That's the last thing. What it should be, there's 00:15:40.549 --> 00:15:42.129 a term in advertising, it's called a teaser. 00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:44.669 Maybe you know what that is. So that's what it 00:15:44.669 --> 00:15:47.409 should be. The whole point of this elevator speech 00:15:47.409 --> 00:15:52.409 is not to tell them what you do. It's to tell 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:55.730 them enough to want to know more about what you 00:15:55.730 --> 00:15:59.789 do when they get off the elevator. Tell them 00:15:59.789 --> 00:16:02.590 just enough so that they have to ask you a question. 00:16:03.259 --> 00:16:05.659 So they want to know, so they don't want the 00:16:05.659 --> 00:16:08.440 conversation to end when you get off the elevator. 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.120 They want to keep talking about you. If you did 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.000 that, then you won. You've achieved the goal 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.179 of that elevator pitch, elevator speech. But 00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:21.679 that's very true. And that's quite a nice story. 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:26.019 So let's change a little bit. And what were some 00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:28.799 of the obstacles you faced when building your 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.690 network through public speaking? But how did 00:16:31.690 --> 00:16:37.649 you overcome them as well? Trying to think. So 00:16:37.649 --> 00:16:42.990 I don't know if your audiences are seeing me, 00:16:43.090 --> 00:16:48.309 but I'm an old guy. It's been a while since I've 00:16:48.309 --> 00:16:51.509 done this. I'm 70. I've been retired about 10 00:16:51.509 --> 00:16:54.870 years. So you're asking me questions about things 00:16:54.870 --> 00:16:58.909 that were done 30 years ago. So I'm trying to 00:16:58.909 --> 00:17:01.529 think of some obstacles. I guess there's always 00:17:01.529 --> 00:17:05.309 an obstacle. Anytime you're up in front of people 00:17:05.309 --> 00:17:09.130 speaking, you may have people talking. You may 00:17:09.130 --> 00:17:12.470 have some interruptions. It may not be the best 00:17:12.470 --> 00:17:15.450 environment to give a presentation. Maybe the 00:17:15.450 --> 00:17:18.440 audio equipment is not. working the way it should 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:20.359 be. So there are all kinds of things that can 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.599 go wrong, right, when you're giving a presentation. 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:25.539 And I think the challenges of something like 00:17:25.539 --> 00:17:29.019 that happens is to just try to ignore it as well 00:17:29.019 --> 00:17:32.960 as you can and just do the best job you can under 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.140 those circumstances. Yeah, I've found when... 00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:39.720 I've gone onto stages and something like that 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:43.099 hasn't worked, whether it was the audio, whether 00:17:43.099 --> 00:17:45.339 the visual didn't work or something else like 00:17:45.339 --> 00:17:48.859 that. I owned it right away and I made fun of 00:17:48.859 --> 00:17:51.000 it. I made a joke about it and everybody had 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.759 a good laugh and we moved on, but I moved on 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:56.039 without the video or audio, whatever the case 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.619 might be. There was one time where even the floor 00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:03.440 became unbalanced. So I made a joke about that. 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:05.579 So it's just a matter of what comes your way. 00:18:05.660 --> 00:18:07.880 You have to make a joke of it and just own it 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.160 and move on. That's all. Yeah. You have to have 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.079 the ability to improvise. Absolutely. And be 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:17.099 prepared for any situation. And being a public 00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:20.240 speaker, that's synonymous with that. Because 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:22.819 you have to be able to roll with just about everything. 00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:28.640 Can you share a specific example of how a speaking 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:33.089 opportunity led to a significant networking breakthrough. 00:18:33.309 --> 00:18:36.690 I think your elevator story pretty much summed 00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:40.829 that up. So do you want to add something to that? 00:18:40.890 --> 00:18:43.869 I can't think of a better example. It's a prime 00:18:43.869 --> 00:18:46.769 example. It really is. I don't know that would 00:18:46.769 --> 00:18:50.150 ever happen again if I had a career that lasted 00:18:50.150 --> 00:18:52.549 100 years. That was just a very... And it just 00:18:52.549 --> 00:18:56.569 proves that you never know when there's going 00:18:56.569 --> 00:18:59.309 to be an opportunity that you could benefit. 00:18:59.609 --> 00:19:05.730 from you just don't know that's true that's true 00:19:05.730 --> 00:19:12.069 and it just the point is situation okay okay 00:19:12.069 --> 00:19:14.789 now i'm going to shift this a little bit to an 00:19:14.789 --> 00:19:17.930 online question and tell me if it's a little 00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:20.589 bit past where you are because i don't know how 00:19:20.589 --> 00:19:25.150 active you are online How do you leverage social 00:19:25.150 --> 00:19:30.170 media and online platforms to enhance your personal 00:19:30.170 --> 00:19:33.990 brand and networking efforts? Sure. You're right. 00:19:34.029 --> 00:19:37.190 I don't need to be hustling anymore, but I can 00:19:37.190 --> 00:19:40.230 still answer that question. Maybe you can relate 00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:42.730 to this. I'm sure some of your listeners can 00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:47.769 relate to this. It astounds me on how many people 00:19:47.769 --> 00:19:50.450 don't realize how important their LinkedIn profile 00:19:50.450 --> 00:19:55.559 is. and many of them have nothing for the masthead 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.420 that goes behind their photo, and they haven't 00:19:58.420 --> 00:20:01.700 maxed out everything you can do on LinkedIn. 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:03.799 You can do so much on LinkedIn. You could post 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:05.880 images. You could post videos. You can really 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.519 max out your LinkedIn profile, and I just don't 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:10.619 understand why anyone, especially if they're 00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:13.680 in a business, their own business, why they haven't 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.819 done that. So that would certainly be my first 00:20:16.819 --> 00:20:20.660 suggestion is if anyone wants to. look at an 00:20:20.660 --> 00:20:22.819 example. They could look at yours. They could 00:20:22.819 --> 00:20:25.700 look at my LinkedIn page and they can see and 00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:29.380 maybe get some ideas from that. The other thing 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:32.960 I would just say is take advantage of every social 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.059 media channel that you think your prospect might 00:20:37.059 --> 00:20:43.400 be looking at. Again, it's not that hard to post 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:47.319 content on any social media platform. You just 00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:49.930 have to be willing to take the time. to do it 00:20:49.930 --> 00:20:54.109 i would just encourage everyone to if you don't 00:20:54.109 --> 00:20:57.450 have an instagram page or profile put one up 00:20:57.450 --> 00:21:00.069 if you don't have a youtube channel i think that's 00:21:00.069 --> 00:21:03.150 important too i think video is really more important 00:21:03.150 --> 00:21:06.609 than it has ever been facebook there's every 00:21:06.609 --> 00:21:09.190 month there's a new social media channel it's 00:21:09.190 --> 00:21:13.130 easy to get overwhelmed by it but there are certainly 00:21:13.130 --> 00:21:17.849 three or four of them that you can't ignore that 00:21:17.849 --> 00:21:20.509 you have to just take advantage of for sure. 00:21:21.490 --> 00:21:24.369 Sure. And it's true that there's something new 00:21:24.369 --> 00:21:29.509 coming out every month, but I believe that really 00:21:29.509 --> 00:21:31.849 that all my listeners, that they should only 00:21:31.849 --> 00:21:35.309 really pick one or two of them that they're really 00:21:35.309 --> 00:21:39.410 going to fully get behind. Listen, I post every 00:21:39.410 --> 00:21:43.349 day on LinkedIn, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, 00:21:43.349 --> 00:21:47.549 and YouTube. Okay. I post a reel, but I do that 00:21:47.549 --> 00:21:51.859 twice a day. Every day. Wow. So it's just and 00:21:51.859 --> 00:21:54.880 it's how you get a lot of traction. And really, 00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:58.980 by them, by you posting as often and as consistently, 00:21:59.059 --> 00:22:02.740 that's the key word, consistently as possible, 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.740 then the algorithms start to include you and 00:22:06.740 --> 00:22:09.900 you go further and further out. But LinkedIn 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:13.180 is business. That's strictly business. Everything 00:22:13.180 --> 00:22:15.859 else, just really stay out of it. Graham and 00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:19.039 YouTube, that's great for reels and short videos 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:21.960 and things like that. Facebook, some people use 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.420 it for ads. Some people don't. They use it for 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:26.599 family. They don't. So that's up in the air. 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:31.200 But that's what I do. I am consistent every day. 00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:33.359 The first thing in the morning when I get up 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:38.579 is I post on all the medias. I say it like it 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:43.579 takes me an hour. It takes me 30 seconds. OK, 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.359 because I use a program called Opus Clips and 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:49.880 I just break apart whatever video I have and 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.140 it gives me for 10 days and that posts on all 00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:55.200 of them. You know, that's what I do. And I think 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.359 that's a very good option to work at. I would 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:00.900 just add I would add one more media platform 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:04.970 to that. Sure. As I said, I'm an old guy, but 00:23:04.970 --> 00:23:08.150 if I was active right now in my business, I would 00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:12.329 also be on TikTok. I think that is probably the 00:23:12.329 --> 00:23:16.009 fastest growing social media platform. So you 00:23:16.009 --> 00:23:18.329 could argue that's just teenage girls dancing, 00:23:18.450 --> 00:23:21.049 but actually it's not. It's become, that's how 00:23:21.049 --> 00:23:24.279 it started. But now if you go on TikTok, you 00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:27.339 see a lot of very serious businesses using that 00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:30.339 platform to market themselves for good reasons. 00:23:30.460 --> 00:23:33.220 It's not that hard to just reformat your video. 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:36.359 If you already have the content, it's just a 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.980 matter of maybe reformatting it so it works for 00:23:39.980 --> 00:23:43.259 TikTok and just uploading it. Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:45.819 And you're right. I didn't think about that because 00:23:45.819 --> 00:23:48.950 I just... recently getting everything together 00:23:48.950 --> 00:23:51.630 for TikTok because I was really waiting to see 00:23:51.630 --> 00:23:54.049 whether it was going to happen with it, bought, 00:23:54.269 --> 00:23:56.569 sold, whatever. But it seems like somebody's 00:23:56.569 --> 00:23:58.670 going to buy it and it's going to remain in the 00:23:58.670 --> 00:24:01.650 country. So I'm going to get behind that as well. 00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:05.009 Yes, that's a very good idea. Let's talk about 00:24:05.009 --> 00:24:08.230 authenticity. How do you balance being authentic 00:24:08.230 --> 00:24:12.190 and crafting a polished professional, I'm sorry, 00:24:12.390 --> 00:24:17.160 a polished personal brand image? They're not 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.519 mutually exclusive. They should be the same thing. 00:24:21.019 --> 00:24:24.539 And I think it goes back to what we just talked 00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:29.079 about. People are going to judge your image or 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:32.740 your brand or learn about you by what it is that 00:24:32.740 --> 00:24:36.839 you put on the internet. Unless, you know, they're 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.119 seeing you in person. Most of the people are 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.390 going to know about you by... what you post. 00:24:42.450 --> 00:24:44.769 I call it G cred. I came up with this term in 00:24:44.769 --> 00:24:49.130 2006 called G cred, which is your Google credibility. 00:24:50.230 --> 00:24:54.569 Do you have it? Do you have G cred? And the better 00:24:54.569 --> 00:24:59.589 your content on the internet, social media platforms 00:24:59.589 --> 00:25:05.509 defines your image. I think the more that they 00:25:05.509 --> 00:25:08.150 will, your audience will have the image of you 00:25:08.150 --> 00:25:10.819 that you want them to have. So it all comes down 00:25:10.819 --> 00:25:16.660 to your ability to reinforce that image you just 00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:21.799 described by the video, the writing, the interviews, 00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:25.579 these podcasts. There's so many ways. There's 00:25:25.579 --> 00:25:29.140 so many ways to create content. And all of it 00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:33.859 has to funnel into that brand image, the way 00:25:33.859 --> 00:25:35.960 that you want to be defined. It's got to continue 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.240 to reinforce that. That's right. That's right. 00:25:39.690 --> 00:25:44.289 It makes you what you are on the internet. It 00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:47.269 makes you are the way that you want to be perceived. 00:25:47.849 --> 00:25:50.910 And you don't have to be afraid because people 00:25:50.910 --> 00:25:53.369 ask me all the time, oh, I want to do a podcast, 00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:56.069 but I was afraid to get started and things like 00:25:56.069 --> 00:25:58.450 that. And I said, look, don't be afraid. Just 00:25:58.450 --> 00:26:01.150 do it. Just get started. Start with a phone, 00:26:01.309 --> 00:26:04.650 start with whatever, and just start podcasting 00:26:04.650 --> 00:26:07.880 because after a while, you'll get better. and 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:11.400 better. And by the 10th, 12th, 15th podcast, 00:26:11.940 --> 00:26:14.279 you look back at the first one and say, oh my 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.920 God, I sucked. I was so bad. Come on. Michael, 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:21.000 you don't know this because I haven't told you. 00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:24.720 I used to have a podcast when my first podcast, 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:27.400 it was called The Marketing Show with John Follis. 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:29.980 Do you know when it went up? You want to guess? 00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:32.799 Just by the way that you're talking, I'm going 00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:37.920 to say 2000. Hey, Michael, podcasting didn't 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:43.599 start until mid 2005. I know that. So I had a 00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:48.779 podcast went up in early 2006 and I did it for 00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:53.059 seven years. See that? And that's what it's all 00:26:53.059 --> 00:26:55.819 about. And now I think I read a stat that there's 00:26:55.819 --> 00:27:00.500 4 million podcasts and it's growing every year. 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:04.589 It's just a matter of if you want to do it, You 00:27:04.589 --> 00:27:06.329 want to get your word out, get your word out. 00:27:06.589 --> 00:27:09.589 Most people just have fun with it. I love doing 00:27:09.589 --> 00:27:12.890 a podcast because I'm speaking to you. I spoke 00:27:12.890 --> 00:27:16.349 with somebody in Israel yesterday, somebody from 00:27:16.349 --> 00:27:19.750 Australia, somebody, someone from the UK. It's 00:27:19.750 --> 00:27:22.730 great. So it brings everybody together. Okay, 00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:25.890 let's, I have two more questions for you. And 00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:29.900 this one is concerning your success. What metrics 00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:33.200 or indicators do you use to gouge the effectiveness 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.640 of your networking and personal branding efforts? 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:43.920 What metrics? There's different metrics that 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.539 people can use for success. For me, I didn't 00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:53.160 graduate with a business degree. When I walked 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.359 out of my partnership with a guy who was a business 00:27:56.359 --> 00:28:03.140 guy, When I was 35, I wasn't sure that I could 00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:08.759 even survive. My background is creative. And 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:11.819 I tried to find a business partner that I thought 00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:14.220 I needed in order to continue work. Having a 00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:17.099 business in New York is not an easy thing to 00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:19.519 do. It's probably the most competitive city in 00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.740 the, if not the world, certainly the country. 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:27.609 And just the fact that the network, benefits 00:28:27.609 --> 00:28:30.750 that I got, the results that I got as a result 00:28:30.750 --> 00:28:34.549 of the networking that I did, the fact that it 00:28:34.549 --> 00:28:38.569 enabled me to continue to have a successful business 00:28:38.569 --> 00:28:41.950 for as long as I did, which was about 20 years 00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:46.869 in New York City, I think was a real testament 00:28:46.869 --> 00:28:50.589 to the power of good networking. So that's one 00:28:50.589 --> 00:28:53.809 metric that I used. I also got a fair amount 00:28:53.809 --> 00:29:01.069 of press. I won some awards. I was invited to 00:29:01.069 --> 00:29:03.869 get speaking gigs at prestigious places like 00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:06.089 the World Business Academy and Yale University. 00:29:06.509 --> 00:29:09.569 Those were all, I think, metrics of the success 00:29:09.569 --> 00:29:14.529 that I had. Absolutely. Absolutely. Not to mention 00:29:14.529 --> 00:29:16.349 being invited to the White House and the UN. 00:29:16.970 --> 00:29:19.450 That I think is pretty big. Who was the president? 00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:23.259 So when I got invited, that was... In the dark 00:29:23.259 --> 00:29:28.700 ages, 1991, and George Bush I was the president 00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:32.839 back then. Yeah, I was in Desert Storm in 1991. 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.680 Ah, okay. So that's what I was doing. Wow. What's 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.799 the one piece of advice you'd give to someone 00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:44.019 looking to use public speaking to expand their 00:29:44.019 --> 00:29:49.779 professional network? One piece of advice for 00:29:49.779 --> 00:29:54.420 someone using public speaking. expand their professional 00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:58.319 network. I'm trying to think of a good answer 00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:02.299 to that, Michael, other than stealing a tagline 00:30:02.299 --> 00:30:06.099 from Nike, which is just do it. I think I say 00:30:06.099 --> 00:30:09.819 that because there's so much fear associated 00:30:09.819 --> 00:30:14.900 with public speaking. It's easy to talk yourself 00:30:14.900 --> 00:30:19.319 out of doing it. And as I'm sure you would agree, 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.519 the more you do it, the more confidence you'll 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:26.099 have in doing it and the better you'll get at 00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:31.400 it. So I would say just best advice is just get 00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:34.019 started, right? Because that's the hardest step. 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.680 That's once you take that leap. And listen, also 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:40.940 do what you need to develop your confidence. 00:30:41.059 --> 00:30:43.180 Here's a great piece of advice. Maybe you can 00:30:43.180 --> 00:30:45.819 appreciate it. You're familiar with Toastmasters, 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:49.329 right? Sure. Yeah, okay. A lot of people aren't. 00:30:49.329 --> 00:30:52.630 And I wasn't when I was in my 20s. But Toastmasters, 00:30:52.650 --> 00:30:55.630 for anyone who doesn't know, is an international 00:30:55.630 --> 00:30:58.450 public speaking organization that's been around 00:30:58.450 --> 00:31:02.869 for, I don't know, 60 years at this point. And 00:31:02.869 --> 00:31:05.789 anyone can join it. They have one in every city. 00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:10.190 And it gives you an opportunity to practice your 00:31:10.190 --> 00:31:13.150 public speaking skills. So that's certainly one 00:31:13.150 --> 00:31:16.549 thing you can do to gain confidence. in public 00:31:16.549 --> 00:31:19.309 speaking, as well as, of course, hiring you, 00:31:19.390 --> 00:31:24.789 Michael. Absolutely. When I said for the podcasting, 00:31:24.789 --> 00:31:28.410 just get started, when I just got started, I 00:31:28.410 --> 00:31:32.130 did, of course, it was free then, but I just 00:31:32.130 --> 00:31:34.950 did it to practice what I was talking about. 00:31:35.309 --> 00:31:39.109 And I changed it every time. So eventually I 00:31:39.109 --> 00:31:43.970 did 50 or 75 speaking gigs, you know, for free. 00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:46.960 And people were ecstatic. They went, oh my God, 00:31:47.019 --> 00:31:49.319 this is free. It's wonderful. But then you start 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.140 to charge and you charge a little bit more and 00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:54.940 more. Of course, I'm not up to the Tony Robbins 00:31:54.940 --> 00:31:59.359 stage yet, but you had to start somewhere. So 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:03.609 that piece of advice of just do it. Just do it. 00:32:03.609 --> 00:32:06.410 Just get off your rear end and just start talking. 00:32:06.630 --> 00:32:09.910 Go to a chamber of commerce and begin your speaking 00:32:09.910 --> 00:32:12.269 career and see whether or not it's for you or 00:32:12.269 --> 00:32:14.170 not. But that's all great. That's great. One 00:32:14.170 --> 00:32:16.069 other thing I'll just add, Michael, is try to 00:32:16.069 --> 00:32:17.990 have fun with it. Do you know what I'm saying? 00:32:17.990 --> 00:32:21.130 Always have fun. If you stop having fun, get 00:32:21.130 --> 00:32:23.930 out of the business. OK, always have fun. Always 00:32:23.930 --> 00:32:27.490 have a good time. John, this was absolutely great 00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:31.480 because. We are very much alike. And I really 00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:34.299 enjoyed our conversation. If somebody wants to 00:32:34.299 --> 00:32:36.700 get hold of you, what's the best way that they 00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:40.380 can get hold of you? The simplest way, if they 00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:42.779 know how to spell my name, is to just pop me 00:32:42.779 --> 00:32:46.079 in Google, because I have been posting content 00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:50.170 on the Internet since the Internet began. In 00:32:50.170 --> 00:32:52.130 fact, one of the things I enjoy most is doing 00:32:52.130 --> 00:32:54.190 podcasts like this. I don't have to work, but 00:32:54.190 --> 00:32:56.329 I love talking about the business. I love having 00:32:56.329 --> 00:32:59.970 conversations with people like you, people all 00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:02.089 around the world. In the past couple of years, 00:33:02.190 --> 00:33:05.809 I've done, at this point, over 80 podcasts. So 00:33:05.809 --> 00:33:09.549 if anyone just pops my name, and the last name 00:33:09.549 --> 00:33:13.589 is F -O -L -L -I -S, first name John, on the 00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:16.069 internet, they'll see all kinds of stuff come 00:33:16.069 --> 00:33:19.829 up. Actually, I can't wait. I'm going to actually 00:33:19.829 --> 00:33:22.809 do that myself. John, thank you so much for coming 00:33:22.809 --> 00:33:25.789 on my podcast. I'm sure my listeners got a lot 00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:30.670 out of it. And I'll speak to you soon. Thanks, 00:33:30.750 --> 00:33:33.829 Michael. Great chatting with you. Well, hold 00:33:33.829 --> 00:33:36.710 on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let me just read 00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:39.630 a few of our sponsors that we have. Struggling 00:33:39.630 --> 00:33:43.170 to reach success? Maybe it's time to quit. In 00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:47.019 Quit Your Way to Success. by Rodney Davis. This 00:33:47.019 --> 00:33:50.640 reveals 27 steps to breaking bad habits that 00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.180 hold you back. This powerful book helps you rewire 00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:57.640 your mindset, take control of your actions, and 00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.759 turn setbacks into stepping stones. With real 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:04.220 -life examples, motivational quotes, and actionable 00:34:04.220 --> 00:34:07.380 lessons, especially for sales professionals, 00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.960 you'll gain the tools to quit what's stopping 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.860 you and start winning. Transform your future 00:34:12.860 --> 00:34:16.409 today. So Quit Your Way to Success by Rodney 00:34:16.409 --> 00:34:20.849 Davis, available now on Amazon. And this is a 00:34:20.849 --> 00:34:24.269 nonprofit called Revved Up Kids. This is something 00:34:24.269 --> 00:34:27.849 I believe in wholeheartedly. Revved Up Kids is 00:34:27.849 --> 00:34:31.269 on a mission to protect children and teens from 00:34:31.269 --> 00:34:34.130 sexual abuse, exploitation, and trafficking. 00:34:34.369 --> 00:34:37.030 They provide prevention training programs for 00:34:37.030 --> 00:34:40.699 children. teens, and adults. To learn more, go 00:34:40.699 --> 00:34:45.539 to revvedupkids .org. That's R -E -V -V -E -D 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:52.739 -U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap, 00:34:52.820 --> 00:34:55.679 folks. A huge thank you to our special guests 00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:59.019 for sharing such incredible insights today. And 00:34:59.019 --> 00:35:02.400 of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.340 listeners, for tuning in and spending your time 00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:09.210 with us. Remember, networking isn't about being 00:35:09.210 --> 00:35:12.550 perfect. It's about being present. So take what 00:35:12.550 --> 00:35:15.130 you've learned today, get out there and make 00:35:15.130 --> 00:35:18.130 some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this 00:35:18.130 --> 00:35:21.110 episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us 00:35:21.110 --> 00:35:23.730 a review and share it with someone who could 00:35:23.730 --> 00:35:27.050 use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep 00:35:27.050 --> 00:35:30.750 the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, 00:35:30.869 --> 00:35:35.519 Spotify, YouTube or my website. Michael A. Foreman, 00:35:35.539 --> 00:35:39.500 remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep 00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:42.059 connecting, and keep building those relationships. 00:35:42.500 --> 00:35:45.639 This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:47.280 care and happy networking.