Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building
Profitable Connections. Welcome back to the show,
folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
listening to the podcast where networking is
more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
corner at every event pretending to check emails.
Networking isn't just a nice skill to have, it's
a game changer. When you get good at it, you'll
wonder why you didn't start sooner. More connections,
more opportunities, more profits. It's like unlocking
a cheat code for life. So whether you're the
life of the party or the just let me stay at
home and text type, we've got something for you.
So stick around. Let's turn those awkward small
talk moments into big wins. I've got actually
an incredible guest today. Her name is Amanda
Hanks, and she's got really a comprehensive background,
but I'm going to let her go into it. But I will
just say that Amanda survived cult life and trafficking
to become the millionaire muse. And her journey
embodies resilience transformed into results.
So without butchering that too much, Amanda,
welcome to the podcast. And why don't you tell
us a little bit more about your background? Yeah,
thank you so much for having me. So yeah, as
you said, I was raised in a very unconventional,
ultra conservative cult. And then after we outgrew
that and got out of the cult, in my adult life,
I ended up being sex and labor trafficked by
my ex -boyfriend. All those things serve to teach
me how to become a better communicator and writer.
So I'm grateful for those opportunities that
have now served me. And so now I write and I
help people communicate and connect with impact
and with a strategy. And yeah, I'm super blessed.
That's fantastic. There is a local organization
called Revved Up Kids. And they have a website
revvedupkids .org, which I think you might find
very interesting. And they're actually a sponsor
for the podcast, but it falls right along the
lines of trafficking and protecting the young
girls from their family, basically, or anybody
else. But just to take a look into that. How
does effective copywriting contribute to building
strong, profitable business relationships? And
it's... The whole reason for strong, profitable
businesses, because copywriting is a form of
communication. And it's a form that most of your
leads or business partners or people interested
in you will encounter first before they actually
get the opportunity to encounter you. They read
something online. They see content online. They
see words online, add something. So copywriting
is usually people's first and last impression
of you. So it is the most. important piece of
business, I would dare say, because it's communication
and communication is what makes the world go
round. Absolutely right. The networking and communication
is the crux of, I would say, every business,
but it's every person as well. So it's very important.
What are customer pain points most businesses
overlook when crafting their message? They often
tend to try to speak with their own voice. to
the person they are right now instead of looking
at who their ideal client is and speaking to
that person. They get too caught up in their
own brand voice or their own personal voice that
they forget that they're not trying to sell themselves.
They're trying to sell themselves five years
ago and they want to go too deep too quick and
they completely go over their prospects heads
completely or the person they're looking to connect
with. That's very good information and very good
insights. How can professionals use networking
insights to create more persuasive and conversation
-driven copy? I love the test of seeing how people
introduce me, because how they introduce me is
how they actually perceive me, and it tells me
what my communication and how they're interpreting.
either my copy or my communication. That's a
telltale sign. If they don't know how to explain
who you are or what you do, that's a massive
problem and a massive disconnect. So I'm always
curious in networking events or even situations
like this, how people end up introducing you
to other people. Pay attention to that because
that will give you insight into how people are
interpreting your copy or your messaging. And
then also you get to practice new different lines.
You get to practice new different. catchphrases.
You get to practice new different titles that
you want to try. And it's a really great instant
feedback. People go, oh, you know, that's usually
a good sign. Or if they go, okay, then that means
you're boring. So paying attention to how people
interact with you when you talk about what you
do, how people introduce you is almost instant
marketing feedback and very valuable data. Yeah.
You're touching on so many points, so many networking
points, which are so on point that I can't, I
don't know where to begin. As far as I'm concerned,
you're doing everything correct. When you give
that 30 second elevator pitch or speech that
you want to give, you're seeing the reaction.
So if the reaction isn't good from what you say,
then you're like, all right, I'm going to scrub
that. And I'm going to try something else. So
you're right. So you see by the actions and reactions
of everybody concerned. Can you share a framework
or method for crafting copy that speaks directly
to a customer's pain points? That's a good one.
What I normally do when I'm writing is I look
at what I want the end result or emotion to be.
And I work backwards from that emotion. So if
I want. peace, then I start working backwards
with how do I create the emotion of peace inside
that and what words am I using? And I start to
curate the phrases, even the pattern, even the
rhythm of the sentence, the rhetoric around how
do I create a nice and consistent pace so that
it feels peaceful versus if I want to create
urgency, I'm going to jumble a bunch of words
together. I'm going to use short sentences. I'm
going to use all capitals. I'm going to create.
structure it differently to create a different
emotion. So I start at the end emotion and work
my way backwards. That's great. And I want to
touch upon something that is relevant to this,
but also the question before is that you have
to have active listening. You have to be able
to listen to everybody, not hear them, but actually
listen to them. And of course, then there is
the pause. after the listen, because what does
that tell the person that you were listening?
So you might say, I understand that you said
blah, blah, blah. So that tells them that you
were listening to what they have to say. And
it really, it makes them feel better. It invokes
a bit of confidence and it tells them what you're
doing. A hundred percent. What strategies do
you recommend for quickly identifying a potential
client's true needs? during a conversation or
networking event? I let them tell me. So a lot
of times I'll lead with what's going on in your
world? What's something good? What's something
bad going on in your world? And if they immediately
go to business, then I know that's where their
focus is. If they go to something outside of
business, whether it's family or my kid's been
sick or something like that, then I can get a
grip on where. their priorities are at, not to
say like one's better than the other. It's just
where their mind frame is. And then I start navigating
that and connecting with them on that level.
So I ask a lot of open -ended questions that
will let them tell on themselves. So I don't
go in and say, you need copywriting and I'm pitching
email sequences to you. Where's your bottleneck
in your business? What do you hate about entrepreneurship?
What's the one thing that drives you crazy about
running your business? And then whether or not
I'm the direct solution or I give a referral,
I'm going to be a solution no matter what to
them. I'm going to bring value no matter what
to them. So I let them lead the way. Very good.
Very good. Because you have to remember that
everyone's got a problem and you're there to
solve their problem, whether you can do it or
not. It's up to you. But if you can refer them,
because you're not going to leave it open -ended.
You're there to help them. And if you help them
by referring them to somebody who can help them,
that's great. But they will always remember you
for that. You're striking it rich every time.
Or they might not be in a place to where they
need me yet. They might not have their LLC set
up. They might not have even their business formatted
or their system. So it might be a train wreck
if I try to get in and help them right now. So
if I can set them up for success to where I can
get them to a place to where they'll actually
need me and my services, that's a win as well.
Absolutely. And if you put all their information
into your CRM or whatever you use, and you may
deal with them six months down the road. Just
touching them like once a month or something.
Say, hey, look, I'm here. How's this? Or how's
that? How's it going? And you're keeping in their
mind. So again, that's very good. Okay. So what
are some real world examples of what great copy
turned a casual business connection into a long
-term client? Goodness. My mind is running a
million different directions. When you walk,
when you talk about nurturing a lead for more
than six months, this is probably when I teach
younger kids. I'm going to call them kids, but
they're in their twenties, younger kids, how
to write and how to sell. They're like, I haven't
heard from in a week. So I moved on and I'm like,
are you crazy? So all that to say, I had one
person and I really, I felt something in my gut
about her and I pursued this lead. For four years.
Four years. And then finally, and there were
so many moments where we almost closed the deal.
There were so many moments where we almost did
things time and time again, three or four times.
Finally, we were there at the deal close. And
I'm like, this is when she normally walks. So
I did not have a lot of hope tied to it. But
then the wire came through and she's spent over.
a hundred and fifty thousand dollars with me
within a couple months so it was well worth that
nurture and it was well worth a casual conversation
of I would love to do this for you and just offering
value offering support offering a script or an
email or just favors now and then and again to
get her to a point to where she was ready to
I had so much trust and history built with her
that she was more than willing once she finally
got to that point to spend a lot of money. And
so we just finished her book is one of the things
we've done for her. And it's in editing right
now. So it's going to come out pretty soon. Good.
That falls along the lines of, because in networking,
the networking world, if they know you, if they
like you, if they trust you, they'll do business
with you. And you built that trust because your
whole thing when you're meeting somebody, whatever,
is to break down that wall. and to build up your
trust. And that's what you did. That's what you
did over the four years, of course. But then
when it came time to her signing on the dotted
line, there was no problem because she trusted
you. And that's the whole thing. Very good. Okay.
So get ready for this questions. Okay. What are
the biggest mistakes people make when trying
to write persuasive copy for their business?
They are too focused on selling and forget that
they're talking to a human and they need to connect
with a human first. So they go straight into
this weird, like when you go to Starbucks and
that there's that customer service voice and
they're like, hi, welcome to Starbucks. They
do not talk that way in normal life. And people
slip into this customer service voice when they
start writing copy and they forget that there's
a human that they're interacting with. They don't
have to put on that weird customer service robotic
voice. Just talk like a normal person and it's
going to go over so much better. So I talk people
out of, I'm like, stop it. Stop selling. Start
connecting. You don't need more leads. You need
more conversations. Very good. Very good. Very
good. Because really, and I say this because
it's as of the pandemic, because the days of.
you're building your customer base, that's really
out the window. This is now a time of building
relationships. And those relationships will become
fruitful, of course, but it's all about you and
your follow -up to the people that you just met
and everything comes together. Yeah, the money
is always in the follow -up and value -based
follow -up, not just, hey. What do you think?
Hey, you ready to sign? Hey, you ready to get
to work? No, it's, oh, I saw this article about
pickleball and I know you mentioned you love
pickleball and I thought of you. Or saw that
you were having a rough day. Here's a $5 gift
card to Starbucks. It doesn't take much. It doesn't
take much. Just knowing that you cared that much
about me and I'll always keep you top of mind.
And that's the way to do it. How can someone
who isn't a natural writer improve their ability
to craft compelling messages for networking follow
-ups? Chat GPT. Okay, I say this, with great
power comes great responsibility. So chat GPT
is a tool. It is not an end -all be -all. But
what you can do is compose your first draft,
throw it into chat GPT and ask it, hey, I need
you to be my copywriter. Where would you improve
this? This is a follow -up email. I want it to
be casual. I want it to be warm conversation,
whatever adjectives you want to use. And it'll
generate. My favorite thing to do with ChatGPT
right now, I go, is that the best you can do?
Is what I ask it. And it like snaps to attention
and gives me some great results after I challenge
it. That's super funny. But I... I think people
are under utilizing ChatGBT because they're afraid
and there may be they don't understand how to
use it in a way that will maximize their skill.
They're relying on it for skill completely. And
no, use it like a tutor. Use it like a tool.
Use it as something that can train you to be
better because it most definitely can. And what
you said was so. Correct. I don't know if you
can put a thing on correct, but ChatGPT is a
tool for them to use. And if they're just starting
out, it's a great tool for them to start, but
they have to put their own personality into it,
their own spin and everything. So just use it
as a tool. Don't use it as an end all. No, you
should always have the last human touch on it.
You should never let ChatGPT have the last touch
on your copy ever. Absolutely. Absolutely. With
the rise of AI and automation, how can professionals
ensure their messaging still feels personal and
authentic? This leads right into that. Hire a
copywriter. Because I talk with copywriters all
the time and I use ChatGPT, I use Claude, I use
AI tools constantly. If you're not, you're going
to fall behind. But again, it's using it in the
right way. So ChatGPT is not a creator. It is
a condenser and clarifier. Sam Altman actually
gave an interview on this and he said people
are using it completely wrong. They're using
ChatGPT to create and expand when it was built
to condense and clarify. So what you need to
do is word vomit onto ChatGPT and ask it to clarify,
condense, cut it down. instead of asking it to
create. We as humans, we're one of the few creatures
that can actually create brand new organic things.
And I have a whole weird spiritual theory about
this, but I won't bore you with that. And when
we create, there's a soul to it. There's some
soul to it, right? Some grip, some human element
to it that we can't quite put our finger on when
we see art, when we experience music, when we
experience anything that's been created. And
we often recognize that there's a soullessness
to the AI copy. So again, use it, but then sprinkle
your special sauce onto it after you've used
it for the first draft. Put that human element,
use the psychology. I started a series called
Things Chat GPT Can't Do on LinkedIn. And I'm
diving into the different psychology approaches
that ChatGBT won't think to do. I'm diving into
the different rhythms of rhetoric that are used
from great writers, from great speech givers.
And it's stuff that ChatGBT doesn't think to
do because it doesn't think. It just copies.
So I'm all for using AI. I love automation. It's
maximized my business, 10x my business for sure.
But again, using it responsibly. That's terrific.
You sound like you've been so successful. But
along the way, you had to make mistakes. So what
mistake? Give me the biggest mistake you've made
and how you overcame it. Goodness. I failed fast
and hard. I think the biggest mistake was letting
other people dictate my worth and try to make
me write in a different way. And I made the wrong
people successful with my copy. So now I know
the power I have as a copywriter and that I will
make you successful. If you bring me into your
team, that's a no. It's straight up going to
happen. So now I'm in a space to where I can
choose who I work with. And I do that by not
really caring about how much money you make,
not really caring about where your brand is.
All I care about is your character and your integrity.
Are you someone that if I help elevate you, will
you operate in integrity? And if that's a yes,
then I want to work with you. If that's questionable,
I will not work with you. Because yeah, I mean,
it works and to not doubt my own worth. But then
there's also been things where I've had, I know
my lane and I know my niche and I know who I
write for my ideal client. And anytime I move
outside that lane, I end up regretting it. Anytime
I compromise on my systems or my process, I instantly
regret it. So do not do it. Stick with your systems
and processes. Gotcha. Gotcha. And in being a
public speaker and coach and trainer, I learned
that pick a lane, stick to the lane, pick one
idea, one thought, and just stay in that lane.
Now, of course, unless you're a Tony Robbins
and you can talk about anything, but pick a lane
and you're talking about doing the same thing.
Okay, let's bring this full circle. What's one
immediate change? Listeners can make to their
networking follow -ups or marketing copy to improve
engagement and conversations. I think people
get discouraged after three or five follow -ups.
It takes seven to 10 points of contacts for a
sale. And that's true also for social work. It
takes seven to 10 points of contact that I found
as a social worker to bring someone into recovery
or out of their toxic system into a better one.
So don't get discouraged and don't quit so early
on. And then also be focused on impact and value,
not the sale. And if you're focused on creating
a positive impact and bringing value, you're...
sales and profits are going to be a happy consequence
of that focus. I truly believe whenever you go
to a networking event or meet somebody or anything
else, you always look to give, not receive. Zig
Ziglar came out with looking to give and not
receive, and it'll come back to you. But it's
a great philosophy because then you don't have
to worry about it. Because it will come back
to you. Amanda, this was fantastic. I can probably
talk to you for another hour. But if somebody
wants to get hold of you, the best way, what's
the best way to get hold of you? Honestly, Instagram.
I live on Instagram. And it's Amanda Katarzy,
which is my maiden name, is my handle. Okay,
very good. Amanda, thank you so much for coming
on the podcast today. Thank you so much for having
me. Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere.
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-E -V -V -E -D -U -P -K -I -D -S -O -R -G. All
right, folks. A huge thank you to our guests
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
with us. If you're interested in my digital courses,
being coached, or having me come and talk to
your company, just go to Michael and fill out
the request form. Remember, networking isn't
about being perfect. It's about being present.
So take what you've learned today, get out there,
and make some meaningful connections. If you've
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