WEBVTT 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:20.440 Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:24.260 Profitable Connections. Welcome back to the show, 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:27.379 folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're 00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:29.899 listening to the podcast where networking is 00:00:29.899 --> 00:00:32.799 more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee. 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:36.359 It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist. 00:00:36.539 --> 00:00:39.560 It's an art and talent you can actually learn. 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:42.560 Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.700 corner at every event, pretending to check emails. 00:00:47.260 --> 00:00:49.840 Networking isn't just a nice skill to have. It's 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:52.240 a game changer. And when you get good at it, 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.340 you'll wonder why you didn't start sooner. More 00:00:55.340 --> 00:00:58.560 connections, more opportunities, more profits. 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.380 It's like unlocking a cheat code for life. So 00:01:02.380 --> 00:01:04.040 whether you're the life of the party or the just 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:06.879 let me stay at home and text type, we've got 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:09.739 something for you. So stick around. Let's turn 00:01:09.739 --> 00:01:12.739 those awkward small talk moments into big wins. 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:17.549 I have a guest today. Her name is... Shermaine 00:01:17.549 --> 00:01:24.689 Cruz. You crushed it. All right. And she is an 00:01:24.689 --> 00:01:28.290 award -winning idea curator, global changemaker, 00:01:28.629 --> 00:01:32.549 complex system negotiator, international business 00:01:32.549 --> 00:01:36.430 lawyer, speaker, and storyteller. And I think 00:01:36.430 --> 00:01:39.349 you tested my verbal skills right then and there. 00:01:39.750 --> 00:01:42.310 Shermaine, why don't you tell us a little bit 00:01:42.310 --> 00:01:44.909 about yourself? All right, listen, I test my 00:01:44.909 --> 00:01:47.670 verbal skills every time I say the word Volkswagen, 00:01:47.670 --> 00:01:50.670 because in my language, there's no wah sound. 00:01:50.890 --> 00:01:54.140 So I just want to say Volkswagen. And it's very 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:56.819 difficult to say Volkswagen. So I'm very happy 00:01:56.819 --> 00:01:59.019 that I put you through the exercise of what I 00:01:59.019 --> 00:02:02.939 go through on a daily basis. Okay, okay. All 00:02:02.939 --> 00:02:04.799 right, my background. Well, I was born in Iran. 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:11.340 I lived through the first 10 years or so of post 00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:14.259 -revolutionary Iran during the Iran -Iraq War. 00:02:14.460 --> 00:02:17.379 And then my family was finally able to immigrate. 00:02:17.379 --> 00:02:20.979 We were able to immigrate to Canada. And so I 00:02:20.979 --> 00:02:24.199 attended university. there and it was my introduction 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.020 to western democratic thought and what it was 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:31.080 like to interact and interface with communities 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:34.580 in the west as a woman especially as a woman 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:39.280 of color and it was always my dream to be in 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:43.020 the corporate world and to be doing the handshaking 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:47.460 and the awkward small talk and what I started 00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:49.379 to learn as I went to law school. I went to law 00:02:49.379 --> 00:02:52.240 school in Ann Arbor in Michigan. And that was 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:54.080 my introduction to the United States. By the 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.639 way, shortly before 9 -11, it was a crazy time 00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.659 for me to be out there networking in law school, 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:03.300 trying to find clerkships and then land positions. 00:03:03.659 --> 00:03:06.259 By the way, I'm dating myself now. This was almost 00:03:06.259 --> 00:03:09.740 a quarter of a century ago, y 'all. So I've been 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:13.060 around the block since then quite a bit. And 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:16.659 I stepped into this world of boardrooms. And 00:03:16.659 --> 00:03:20.379 what I learned is that the amount of freedom 00:03:20.379 --> 00:03:25.680 and flexibility and opportunity here is so much 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.080 improved, infinitely improved. And I learned 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.650 from iran where i come from but and i also learned 00:03:34.650 --> 00:03:37.250 that listen there's still a hierarchy here and 00:03:37.250 --> 00:03:39.949 this is a cutthroat corporate world and if i 00:03:39.949 --> 00:03:42.050 really want to make it in this world i need to 00:03:42.050 --> 00:03:45.689 build relationships and alliances and i didn't 00:03:45.689 --> 00:03:48.879 really come with any michael I just, my parents 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:51.620 did what they could and they did a great job 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:54.379 providing for us. We never went hungry, but I 00:03:54.379 --> 00:03:56.979 didn't come from a world of corporate prestige. 00:03:57.060 --> 00:04:01.159 I came from a war -torn post -revolutionary country 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:05.659 and I desperately wanted to maneuver my way through 00:04:05.659 --> 00:04:08.419 these rooms. But then I also wanted to do it 00:04:08.419 --> 00:04:10.900 in a way that was authentic to me, that felt 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:14.919 right for me, that settled well with me, and 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:18.360 that felt more like really. building than manipulation. 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:23.379 And so that was the skill that I began to develop 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:26.879 after law school, having honed it to be candid 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:30.759 with you in Iran as a child, learning to maneuver 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:32.939 my way through the morality police and things 00:04:32.939 --> 00:04:36.839 like that. And practiced it ever since, right? 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:39.899 And so as I succeeded in the corporate world, 00:04:40.060 --> 00:04:42.819 I was an international lawyer. So I represented 00:04:42.819 --> 00:04:46.120 a lot of Fortune 500 companies. And I was in 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.199 courtrooms. I was in boardrooms. I was in negotiation 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:52.829 rooms. I was in some... really unusual places 00:04:52.829 --> 00:04:56.490 at very unusual times. And it's been an extraordinary 00:04:56.490 --> 00:04:59.829 ride. And then about a few years ago, I retired 00:04:59.829 --> 00:05:02.170 and I decided to teach at all. So now I teach 00:05:02.170 --> 00:05:05.230 at Northwestern Law School. I teach. the JD program 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:08.470 and the MSL program there. I write books and 00:05:08.470 --> 00:05:11.490 I speak. And this is the world that I'm in now 00:05:11.490 --> 00:05:14.949 is helping other people form those connections, 00:05:15.129 --> 00:05:18.230 no matter how skilled or unskilled they might 00:05:18.230 --> 00:05:20.189 be at it. And no matter how many connections 00:05:20.189 --> 00:05:26.110 they enter in with, right? Okay, sure. Now, you 00:05:26.110 --> 00:05:29.730 mentioned stoicism within the things that you 00:05:29.730 --> 00:05:32.529 want to talk about. Just very briefly go into 00:05:32.529 --> 00:05:36.660 that just a little bit. Yeah, so stoicism was 00:05:36.660 --> 00:05:38.740 essentially something I grew up with, right? 00:05:38.860 --> 00:05:42.420 This idea of emotional regulation, of stoic regulation 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:47.360 of one's emotions. As I grew up, I learned more 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:49.199 and more. I studied philosophy in university, 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:52.399 and then I went on to law school, and I became 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.699 very practiced. as a litigator and a person existing 00:05:55.699 --> 00:05:58.800 in the corporate world, of being in control of 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:01.300 my own feelings and emotions at any given time, 00:06:01.379 --> 00:06:04.480 while still being empathetic toward the people 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:06.560 in the room, that is being able to read them 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:09.259 and understand them, as well as was necessary 00:06:09.259 --> 00:06:11.699 for that situation and that particular circumstance. 00:06:12.100 --> 00:06:15.660 What I learned is that stoicism isn't not feeling 00:06:15.660 --> 00:06:19.220 things, right? Actually, that is a sort of a 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:23.430 psychopathic way of existing. Stoicism is rather 00:06:23.430 --> 00:06:27.069 existing with the ability to regulate your own 00:06:27.069 --> 00:06:29.490 emotions, to feel the right things at the right 00:06:29.490 --> 00:06:31.930 time for the right people in the right way as 00:06:31.930 --> 00:06:35.189 you determine them to be. And in my opinion, 00:06:35.189 --> 00:06:38.189 it's the ultimate form of authenticity. And it's 00:06:38.189 --> 00:06:40.509 the ultimate form of relationship building. What 00:06:40.509 --> 00:06:44.069 I found in a networking context is that I could 00:06:44.069 --> 00:06:49.209 utilize both stoicism and empathy to read the 00:06:49.209 --> 00:06:52.879 room, respond to the room, but also deal with 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:56.819 my own, say, anxiety or frustration or rejection 00:06:56.819 --> 00:06:59.300 or whatever might have happened in that networking 00:06:59.300 --> 00:07:02.639 room tonight because not every conversation is 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:05.639 an incredible win, as we all know. Some of them 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:10.100 leave us feeling as though we failed that one 00:07:10.100 --> 00:07:13.779 or the person we interacted didn't set us up 00:07:13.779 --> 00:07:18.620 for a good next one. And so it's being able to 00:07:18.620 --> 00:07:21.500 cope with all of that while still having that 00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:25.160 awareness of the other people in the room. Networking 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:31.839 isn't an exact science. meet somebody who you 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:34.920 can build that relationship with, but you also 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:37.519 deal with the people that you really can't and 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:40.800 you don't dismiss them. You have their contact 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.259 information, but you're moving on to somebody 00:07:43.259 --> 00:07:45.779 else that you can build that relationship. And 00:07:45.779 --> 00:07:48.759 as well as I do, that relationship building is 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:52.860 really the key to networking. How has combining 00:07:52.860 --> 00:07:56.740 stoicism and empathy shaped your approach to 00:07:56.740 --> 00:08:00.449 networking? Really, the idea is when you think 00:08:00.449 --> 00:08:02.970 about empathy and empathic connections, there's 00:08:02.970 --> 00:08:06.269 actually a range of empathic connection. On the 00:08:06.269 --> 00:08:10.370 one end of the range is cognitive, which is emotional 00:08:10.370 --> 00:08:13.790 detachment. I am not walking a mile in your shoes. 00:08:13.889 --> 00:08:16.569 I'm just syncing my steps with your steps so 00:08:16.569 --> 00:08:18.589 that I can smell what you smell and see what 00:08:18.589 --> 00:08:20.649 you hear, what you hear, so I can understand 00:08:20.649 --> 00:08:23.430 you better. And that is the ultimate way for 00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:26.029 me to be able to relate to you, right? Find common 00:08:26.029 --> 00:08:28.769 ground with you and build that relationship, 00:08:28.910 --> 00:08:31.949 but even candidly find you interesting. But on 00:08:31.949 --> 00:08:35.070 the other end of that spectrum, Michael, is emotional 00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:39.070 empathy. And that is your pain in my heart. It's 00:08:39.070 --> 00:08:42.009 the usual definition that we associate with empathy, 00:08:42.190 --> 00:08:44.509 right? You're watching your favorite TV show, 00:08:44.610 --> 00:08:47.529 your favorite character gets punched in the face 00:08:47.529 --> 00:08:50.370 and you recoil, even though you didn't get hit, 00:08:50.409 --> 00:08:52.110 right? And that's a fictional character on a 00:08:52.110 --> 00:08:54.870 box in front of you. So imagine translating that 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:57.110 into real life. So the thing about networking 00:08:57.110 --> 00:08:59.250 is we have to be really careful and strategic 00:08:59.250 --> 00:09:29.929 about what Thank you so much for having me. And 00:09:29.929 --> 00:09:31.950 the amount of emotional connection you want to 00:09:31.950 --> 00:09:34.289 feel to that person is going to be very different 00:09:34.289 --> 00:09:37.250 than how you want to approach the cold room. 00:09:37.350 --> 00:09:41.129 But either way, you want to go into every situation 00:09:41.129 --> 00:09:44.450 with that understanding and awareness. So that's 00:09:44.450 --> 00:09:47.830 the empathy part. The stoicism part, that's turning 00:09:47.830 --> 00:09:51.450 all of that awareness inward, all of that strategy 00:09:51.450 --> 00:09:55.269 inward. I also need to be aware of my own feelings, 00:09:55.389 --> 00:09:58.149 my own thoughts, right? And in control of them 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:01.070 and able to dictate them and influence them so 00:10:01.070 --> 00:10:03.850 that I can maneuver my way through this situation 00:10:03.850 --> 00:10:07.190 in a way that will serve me, that will serve 00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:09.990 my profession, my company, my industry, whatever 00:10:09.990 --> 00:10:13.490 it is my goals are for that encounter and interaction 00:10:13.490 --> 00:10:16.570 and do it in a way that's authentic to me. So 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:19.350 I'm not going to go home that night and feel 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.100 as though I was untrue to myself somehow, but 00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:27.600 rather, hey, I met some really great people and 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:30.679 made some really great connections that I can 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:35.000 continue to develop as I move forward. So that's 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.899 what I'd love for you guys to be able to do at 00:10:36.899 --> 00:10:42.100 the end of the night. Authenticity is the main 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:45.080 part of what you're talking about. And that's 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:48.179 the main part of networking. Because if you are 00:10:48.179 --> 00:10:53.049 authentic to yourself, you can be free and discuss 00:10:53.049 --> 00:10:55.870 and you can actually listen to the other people 00:10:55.870 --> 00:10:59.129 if you're being authentic. If you're not, if 00:10:59.129 --> 00:11:02.149 you're putting on some sort of a show, how much 00:11:02.149 --> 00:11:04.769 of a relationship can you actually build? So 00:11:04.769 --> 00:11:07.919 it's a very good point. How do you balance strength 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.240 and compassion when networking in high pressure 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:14.679 situations? And you being an attorney, I'm sure 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.620 are used to a few high pressure situations. Yes, 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.440 absolutely. So again, you need to be strategic 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:22.879 about the level of compassion that you input. 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:25.460 One of the examples I like to give about this, 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:27.460 and I know your show's about networking and I'm 00:11:27.460 --> 00:11:29.480 talking to a corporate community right now, but 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:31.639 I want all of you guys for a second to imagine 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:34.480 that you're a trauma surgeon in an emergency 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:37.879 room. gunshot victim after gunshot victim comes 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:40.580 in through the door. You crying over every single 00:11:40.580 --> 00:11:42.639 one is not going to help those gunshot victims. 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:45.419 But your compassionate ability to understand 00:11:45.419 --> 00:11:47.919 the pain that they're going through and the situation 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:50.440 that they're in is going to be able to serve 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:53.299 you. And it will prevent you from being traumatized 00:11:53.299 --> 00:11:55.360 by your experiences so that you can keep doing 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:57.879 your job. So that's how I want you guys to think 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:00.059 about compassion and empathy as you go into different 00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:02.899 situations. You want to make sure that the level 00:12:02.899 --> 00:12:05.250 of emotional connection that you're taking with 00:12:05.250 --> 00:12:08.110 you is something that is going to be able to 00:12:08.110 --> 00:12:11.610 serve you in that situation, right? If it's not, 00:12:11.809 --> 00:12:15.549 try to put it aside. And one of the things that 00:12:15.549 --> 00:12:19.649 CEOs love doing these days, networkers and the 00:12:19.649 --> 00:12:22.370 startup founders and all of these folks love 00:12:22.370 --> 00:12:24.009 doing these days is getting up first thing in 00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:26.590 the morning, taking an ice bath. And one of the 00:12:26.590 --> 00:12:28.610 reasons they love those ice baths, there's lots 00:12:28.610 --> 00:12:30.830 of health benefits to ice baths. I'm not minimizing 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:33.049 the health benefits. But what I'm telling you 00:12:33.049 --> 00:12:36.789 is getting Comfortable with discomfort, as a 00:12:36.789 --> 00:12:41.049 general matter, is a remarkable stoic tool. It 00:12:41.049 --> 00:12:43.250 could be through an ice bath. It could be through 00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:45.269 a steam room. It could be through volunteering 00:12:45.269 --> 00:12:47.629 at your local homeless shelter and striking up 00:12:47.629 --> 00:12:49.730 conversations with people you have nothing to 00:12:49.730 --> 00:12:53.269 gain from, right? Whatever it is, getting used 00:12:53.269 --> 00:12:56.169 to that which makes you uncomfortable so that 00:12:56.169 --> 00:12:58.950 when you're in that state of discomfort, high 00:12:58.950 --> 00:13:02.409 pressure situation, maybe even hostile high pressure 00:13:02.409 --> 00:13:06.070 situation, right? How do you maintain your calm, 00:13:06.250 --> 00:13:09.149 maintain your composure, and perhaps most importantly, 00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:13.009 maintain your awareness of yourself? and the 00:13:13.009 --> 00:13:15.529 people around you. And that awareness can take, 00:13:15.529 --> 00:13:17.750 again, it can take the form of a full emotional 00:13:17.750 --> 00:13:20.690 connection to someone you've known for decades 00:13:20.690 --> 00:13:24.049 whose child is ill, and you show up to the hospital 00:13:24.049 --> 00:13:27.309 and hold their hand. Or it can simply take the 00:13:27.309 --> 00:13:30.549 form of, I am going to distance myself from these 00:13:30.549 --> 00:13:33.590 feelings at this time, so that I can serve my 00:13:33.590 --> 00:13:36.129 partner whose child is sick, so I can take over 00:13:36.129 --> 00:13:40.090 their duties for them, so that they can focus 00:13:40.090 --> 00:13:42.639 on their family, right? So compassion, can take 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.379 multiple forms. And as long as you strategically 00:13:45.379 --> 00:13:48.299 take it into your tense situation, you'll be 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:51.159 able to adapt it to the situation in a way that's 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:55.320 appropriate. Okay, very good. Very good answer. 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:59.559 Thank you for that. Let me give you a kind of 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:04.059 working over overcoming challenges. Okay, how 00:14:04.059 --> 00:14:08.120 can stoic principles help in overcoming networking 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:12.860 challenges and rejections? I love that. As I'm 00:14:12.860 --> 00:14:14.820 sure you can imagine, you're in a networking 00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:18.000 room. Rejection, by the way, comes in all forms. 00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:22.259 It comes in that very subtle, casual, you make 00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:24.620 your way towards someone, but they turn around 00:14:24.620 --> 00:14:27.559 and their back is to you and you suddenly know 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.480 you're not welcome in that conversation. It can 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.259 also take much more extreme forms than that, 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:35.740 right? So rejection can also come in the form 00:14:35.740 --> 00:14:39.559 of outright rejection. And that can be impactful. 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:41.559 It can be hurtful. And we've all been in that 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:45.320 situation where there's also this nervous awkwardness, 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.679 right? So it's not as though you're reduced to 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:50.659 tears in the middle of a networking event. It's 00:14:50.659 --> 00:14:54.379 more you feel a little bit let down and you feel 00:14:54.379 --> 00:14:57.220 this anxious awkwardness and you're not sure 00:14:57.220 --> 00:14:59.639 now how to maneuver your way through the room 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:03.340 or if you have somehow embarrassed yourself in 00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:05.639 front of others, et cetera. So what you want 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:08.240 to do is you want to use stoic tools and the 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.179 one I've already described so far is embracing 00:15:10.179 --> 00:15:12.240 discomfort but there's a lot more of them in 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.019 my book stoic empathy which is being released 00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:19.700 April 8th tons of stoic tools to help you cope 00:15:19.700 --> 00:15:22.480 and maintain emotional regulation at that time 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:25.720 whether it's anger because somebody said something 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:28.799 with which you vehemently disagree, maybe even 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.840 on a deep moral level, which can happen even 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:35.019 at a networking event, right? How do you cope? 00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:38.259 How do you respond and cope to that person? And 00:15:38.259 --> 00:15:42.240 the first step is always pause, right? Maintain 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:47.039 control of yourself and then react and make sure 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:50.919 that here's the stimuli, okay? Here's the response. 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:55.100 What's in between the stimuli and response is 00:15:55.100 --> 00:15:58.080 your willpower. Make sure that you're existing 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.519 in that space. And then not only are you able 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:04.360 to control your reactions in a manner that is 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:08.399 appropriate at times where anger, anxiety, fear 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.519 is being triggered, but you are also, again, 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:13.840 as Michael said earlier, remaining true to your 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.340 authentic self. Because you're able to be yourself. 00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:19.559 Here's you in the middle. Here's your response, 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.820 your intentional response, right? And that is 00:16:22.820 --> 00:16:25.990 the best that you can do in that situation. Because 00:16:25.990 --> 00:16:28.149 you don't have a month to think about it. And 00:16:28.149 --> 00:16:31.110 by the way, don't leave the room overthinking 00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:33.909 your interactions. Don't leave the room thinking, 00:16:34.049 --> 00:16:36.490 oh, I should have said this or I should have 00:16:36.490 --> 00:16:38.889 done that. It's okay to reflect a little bit 00:16:38.889 --> 00:16:41.950 on what you could have done differently to further 00:16:41.950 --> 00:16:45.409 your interactions and create meaningful context 00:16:45.409 --> 00:16:49.409 and content. But you don't want to overthink 00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:51.970 it. You don't want to go back and beat yourself 00:16:51.970 --> 00:16:54.559 up because you feel like you didn't. collect 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:56.720 enough business cards or build enough relationships 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.580 that night, because that's not going to motivate 00:16:58.580 --> 00:17:00.600 you going into the next one. It's just not going 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.480 to be helpful to you. Take what lessons you can 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.319 get and move on. And I just want to sprinkle 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:08.619 in just a little bit to what you had said, your 00:17:08.619 --> 00:17:12.660 confidence level, okay? Because if you are confident 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:16.619 in yourself and what you're doing, that really 00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:19.839 helps you because you're your authentic self, 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.579 you're confident, it'll give you that little 00:17:22.579 --> 00:17:26.400 bit of structure. to respond. That pause that 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.359 you were saying, that is so important because 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:34.000 you have to really take everything in, think 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.099 about it. Now you really don't have a few seconds, 00:17:36.259 --> 00:17:39.200 but you have to think about it and respond appropriately. 00:17:39.779 --> 00:17:42.460 So that if you sprinkle that confidence in there, 00:17:42.579 --> 00:17:45.839 I think that's a perfect answer. 100%. And if 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:47.759 I could just dovetail back on that, I know you 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:50.700 have other questions, Michael, but One of the 00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:53.259 things I always I don't know if your audience, 00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.319 if anybody out there is an athlete or if you've 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.299 ever played sports or if you are a fan of athleticism. 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.599 But there's this thing that happens in sports 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.500 where the ball slows down, the game slows down. 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:05.259 There's this kind of cool thing that happens 00:18:05.259 --> 00:18:07.279 that the pros talk about. Now, you've got to 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:09.900 be a pro before it slows down for you. But it 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:12.079 literally slows down like your Neo from the Matrix 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:14.400 and the bullets are whizzing by, according to 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.079 everyone else. But for you, they're going so 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.240 slowly that you could grab one of them and drop 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:21.859 it. Right. That is something I swear to you guys, 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:24.420 if you practice this enough, you can accomplish 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:27.599 with your networking skills. You can actually 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:31.700 slow down that time for yourself so that it might 00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:35.740 not actually be 10 seconds of time. It might 00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:41.960 just be a beat. But that... beat can feel like 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.299 a lifetime if you are an expert at knowing how 00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:48.880 to deal with that beat. So allow yourself to 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.740 get to the place where you'd let the game slow 00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:55.720 down for you so that you can see it in a way 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.500 that isn't as rushed, that isn't as fast moving. 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.339 And then you suddenly find that space within 00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:04.539 yourself to respond and find that confidence. 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:09.819 Just to let you know that also. Both my sons 00:19:09.819 --> 00:19:14.299 played college baseball. My daughter -in -law 00:19:14.299 --> 00:19:17.839 played college softball. So I'm telling you that 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:21.400 all three have said that they've found that to 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.960 happen, that it actually slowed down. So it happens 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.160 on the collegiate level as well. So I know exactly 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:32.039 what you're talking about. Definitely. How does 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:35.319 empathy contribute to becoming a more effective 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:40.809 leader and networker? Okay, so in terms of leadership, 00:19:41.049 --> 00:19:44.309 really the way I think about empathy and also 00:19:44.309 --> 00:19:46.609 empathy's interaction with stoicism, and this 00:19:46.609 --> 00:19:48.710 is something I write about in the book as well. 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:50.809 The book is Stoic Empathy, if you guys are still 00:19:50.809 --> 00:19:54.029 listening. April 8th, it's coming out. Feel free 00:19:54.029 --> 00:19:57.150 to get a copy. One of the things that really 00:19:57.150 --> 00:19:59.289 takes place when you're a leader is you develop 00:19:59.289 --> 00:20:02.009 this incredible ability to understand your team, 00:20:02.190 --> 00:20:05.289 this empathic awareness of your team. Now, I 00:20:05.289 --> 00:20:08.509 want you to imagine yourself as a leader. responsible 00:20:08.509 --> 00:20:10.529 for a team, right? And when you're responsible 00:20:10.529 --> 00:20:14.029 for a team, you're not just responsible for the 00:20:14.029 --> 00:20:16.309 day they have, you're responsible for the jobs 00:20:16.309 --> 00:20:20.009 they keep, right? So, and that means the health 00:20:20.009 --> 00:20:23.680 insurance they have, right? Little Timmy's. medicine 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.420 could be reliant on you. There's a massive amount 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:30.960 at play here. And the higher up you are on the 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.960 leadership spectrum, but even if you are leading 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:36.259 a small team, you're responsible for these people. 00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:39.809 And sometimes you get bad news because Bumps 00:20:39.809 --> 00:20:42.250 in the road happen in business, right? It doesn't 00:20:42.250 --> 00:20:43.990 matter who you are. It doesn't matter how successful 00:20:43.990 --> 00:20:46.369 you are. And it doesn't have to be a worldwide 00:20:46.369 --> 00:20:49.230 global pandemic or anything like that or total 00:20:49.230 --> 00:20:51.730 disruption of supply chains as a result of that. 00:20:51.849 --> 00:20:55.230 It could just be you lost a big client that day. 00:20:55.430 --> 00:20:58.390 In everyday occurrence, that might happen. And 00:20:58.390 --> 00:21:02.630 you have to find a way to manage this loss, this 00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:06.250 financial loss, in a way that preserves and protects 00:21:06.250 --> 00:21:09.569 but still motivates your team. You don't necessarily 00:21:09.569 --> 00:21:11.309 want to lie to them and pretend that you still 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:13.829 have the client. That would be silly. But you 00:21:13.829 --> 00:21:16.269 also don't want to go to them with shaky hands 00:21:16.269 --> 00:21:19.069 and say, guys, I don't know what we're going 00:21:19.069 --> 00:21:21.910 to do. We've lost this client. We have nowhere 00:21:21.910 --> 00:21:25.109 to go. No, you want to use your awareness of 00:21:25.109 --> 00:21:28.829 the empathic needs of the people around you to 00:21:28.829 --> 00:21:32.069 collect and gather yourself and lead them in 00:21:32.069 --> 00:21:34.470 a manner that is appropriate. So when we talk 00:21:34.470 --> 00:21:36.789 about empathy, what we're talking in leadership, 00:21:36.930 --> 00:21:38.329 what we're talking about is we're talking about 00:21:38.329 --> 00:21:41.230 that awareness. You care about your team. You 00:21:41.230 --> 00:21:42.990 care about their jobs. You care about their health 00:21:42.990 --> 00:21:47.049 care. Yet you don't need to necessarily express 00:21:47.049 --> 00:21:51.210 that in a manner that would make them upset, 00:21:51.329 --> 00:21:56.250 uncomfortable, or in any way not motivate them 00:21:56.250 --> 00:22:00.170 to do what you need them to do to save their 00:22:00.170 --> 00:22:03.599 jobs, to save the company. and to do whatever 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:05.940 is needed for the next steps. So, and that's 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:08.059 very situation dependent, what that might be. 00:22:08.140 --> 00:22:11.759 Even your level of vulnerability and what you 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.119 put yourself out there with, that depends on 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.819 the situation and how stable and secure your 00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:18.940 team is and how much they can take that day. 00:22:19.099 --> 00:22:22.660 So here you are. aware of your team, aware of 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:25.140 their capabilities, aware of their needs, and 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:28.279 also aware of their vulnerabilities. And you're 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:32.279 using that to help you decide how to lead them 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:36.099 better and lead them forward. You're describing, 00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:39.799 there's a distinct difference between a leader 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:43.460 and a boss. Okay. A boss just shouts all the 00:22:43.460 --> 00:22:47.960 messages. I love that. Okay. But a leader has 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:52.710 leaders under him. He's teaching his people to 00:22:52.710 --> 00:22:55.269 be leaders and you have to be empathetic. You 00:22:55.269 --> 00:22:57.690 have to know what they're doing. You have to 00:22:57.690 --> 00:23:00.769 get in the trenches with them, tutor them, train 00:23:00.769 --> 00:23:04.269 them, coach them. And so that's the main difference. 00:23:04.349 --> 00:23:09.009 So with a leader being empathetic, that is truly 00:23:09.009 --> 00:23:12.750 a part of being a good leader because there are 00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:14.289 plenty of leaders out there that are not good. 00:23:14.450 --> 00:23:17.930 Yeah, plenty. Yeah. Can you share a specific 00:23:17.930 --> 00:23:22.420 example? where empathy led to a successful negotiation? 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:27.440 Yeah, sure. Okay, so this is a good one. You 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:28.960 guys are going to like this one. I'm going to 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:30.980 try not to give any names, but I was working 00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:36.039 for a massive fashion company at the time. It 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:37.980 was actually the spirits division of a fashion 00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:41.700 company. So technically it was a vodka. And we 00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:47.160 were literally in danger of losing the right. 00:23:47.609 --> 00:23:51.609 to use our brand our name and it was a trademark 00:23:51.609 --> 00:23:55.789 dispute and it was a sort of a crazy situation 00:23:55.789 --> 00:23:58.390 to be in because it was a very high -end luxury 00:23:58.390 --> 00:24:01.750 brand that we had been using for years and there 00:24:01.750 --> 00:24:04.509 was some real danger that we could lose it and 00:24:04.509 --> 00:24:08.309 what where we were though is we were in a negotiation 00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:12.890 room it was my team right the team that represented 00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:16.210 the other side and the mediator And in the middle 00:24:16.210 --> 00:24:18.569 of this negotiation, it was a multi -day, these 00:24:18.569 --> 00:24:21.650 negotiations took days and days. In the middle 00:24:21.650 --> 00:24:23.390 of the negotiation, halfway through, maybe three 00:24:23.390 --> 00:24:26.529 or four days in, we learned that the mediator 00:24:26.529 --> 00:24:30.829 does all sorts of business with the lawyers of 00:24:30.829 --> 00:24:35.769 the opposing side. So the mediator... is bias 00:24:35.769 --> 00:24:37.970 and this is something that should have been disclosed 00:24:37.970 --> 00:24:40.450 to us that was not we didn't even know until 00:24:40.450 --> 00:24:43.609 we saw him talking to someone else halfway through 00:24:43.609 --> 00:24:48.170 the the meetings in the hallways and wow it was 00:24:48.170 --> 00:24:52.349 our reaction was obviously we were very angry 00:24:52.349 --> 00:24:55.289 we were also very anxious very nervous should 00:24:55.289 --> 00:24:58.190 our own research have yielded these results did 00:24:58.190 --> 00:25:00.849 we make a mistake in not knowing this how could 00:25:00.849 --> 00:25:03.109 we have let this happen how could he have let 00:25:03.109 --> 00:25:06.380 this happen And my partner, who was with me at 00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:09.940 the time, became extremely angry. And he immediately 00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:13.880 accused the mediator of being biased and being 00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:18.390 unethical. And, of course, the mediator... was 00:25:18.390 --> 00:25:23.529 extremely defensive and very upset at having 00:25:23.529 --> 00:25:26.609 been accused of being unethical because in his 00:25:26.609 --> 00:25:29.970 mind, he's created his own walls and he's created 00:25:29.970 --> 00:25:32.930 his own divisions. And this is not anything that 00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:34.650 he needed to have reported, et cetera. Nobody 00:25:34.650 --> 00:25:36.670 thinks they're the bad guy. You know what I mean? 00:25:36.910 --> 00:25:41.049 And so he's going to walk out. And we're going 00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:43.509 to lose all the progress we've made on this mediation 00:25:43.509 --> 00:25:45.349 because the mediator is going to walk out. My 00:25:45.349 --> 00:25:47.210 partner is going to walk out. All these people 00:25:47.210 --> 00:25:50.890 are going to walk out. And so in that moment, 00:25:51.029 --> 00:25:54.549 when I went up to the mediator and I just, and 00:25:54.549 --> 00:25:56.990 by the way, I want you guys to please take this 00:25:56.990 --> 00:25:59.430 advice with a grain of salt because touching 00:25:59.430 --> 00:26:01.609 people in business interactions can be tricky. 00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:05.130 But I put my hand on his arm like this and I 00:26:05.130 --> 00:26:07.750 just said, why don't you stay a minute? Let's 00:26:07.750 --> 00:26:11.470 talk about it. right? I understand that you must 00:26:11.470 --> 00:26:15.250 be very angry right now. I'm sure you can understand 00:26:15.250 --> 00:26:17.910 where we're coming from. Why don't you take a 00:26:17.910 --> 00:26:21.410 minute and let's talk about it. Don't leave. 00:26:22.230 --> 00:26:24.710 And he turned around and he came back in. He 00:26:24.710 --> 00:26:26.490 was still huffing and puffing, but he turned 00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:28.990 around and he came back in. And my partner had 00:26:28.990 --> 00:26:31.130 left the room. So I said, give me a minute. And 00:26:31.130 --> 00:26:33.730 I went out and I convinced my partner to come 00:26:33.730 --> 00:26:39.599 back in the room. And after that, This mediator 00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:43.779 was bending over backwards to prove how unbiased 00:26:43.779 --> 00:26:49.759 he was towards us. So I'm telling you that just 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.759 that moment when I slowed down my speech and 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.660 gave it a beat of silence and that moment of 00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:00.779 empathy was all he needed to come back and all 00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:02.859 my partner needed. Both of them are actually 00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:05.519 well -intentioned, great people, great professionals. 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:10.200 It just that's how the situation. occurred. And 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:13.200 I've made my share of mistakes in negotiations. 00:27:13.420 --> 00:27:15.500 I've said things that I shouldn't have said. 00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:17.819 I put my foot in my mouth. I have definitely 00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:20.740 embarrassed myself. But you wanted an example 00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:23.380 of a win. So I've given you an example of a win, 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:26.099 my friend. I don't want the audience to think 00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:28.720 that they're all wins because it's all a process 00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:31.420 of learning and a process of growing and a process 00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:34.759 of moving forward. But I did learn from that 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:38.140 interaction. And since then, I've reflected a 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:41.460 lot on that touch, too, like where you touch 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:44.859 someone in a professional context really matters 00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:47.059 because you want to make sure that the touch 00:27:47.059 --> 00:27:51.180 is something that lowers their defenses and not 00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:54.039 something that hires their defenses, right or 00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:56.029 wrong. Right or wrong, whether you think they're 00:27:56.029 --> 00:27:59.769 being overreactionary or not. The idea is I know 00:27:59.769 --> 00:28:02.009 me and I know this person and I know the relationship 00:28:02.009 --> 00:28:05.809 between the two of us and I know what will calm 00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:09.250 them. And of course, I can't say calm down. That's 00:28:09.250 --> 00:28:11.089 like the worst thing you can ever say to anybody 00:28:11.089 --> 00:28:14.089 when you want them to calm down. But through 00:28:14.089 --> 00:28:18.690 that reassurance and that empathy and that understanding, 00:28:18.930 --> 00:28:24.430 you can in effect. Slow down the action in the 00:28:24.430 --> 00:28:26.869 amygdala that's going on in the person's brain 00:28:26.869 --> 00:28:29.069 because they're in fight, flight, or freeze mode, 00:28:29.250 --> 00:28:33.789 right? And get them to think rationally. If I 00:28:33.789 --> 00:28:36.150 were to walk out of this negotiation right now, 00:28:36.230 --> 00:28:39.130 how would it reflect on my career? How would 00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:41.430 it reflect on my clients? How would it reflect 00:28:41.430 --> 00:28:44.710 on this case? How would it affect my reputation? 00:28:45.450 --> 00:28:49.670 If I'm able to sell this negotiation, though, 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.779 If I can get these two sides to reach an agreement, 00:28:53.059 --> 00:28:58.339 I'm a rock star. And what you want them to do 00:28:58.339 --> 00:29:00.799 is you want them to engage in that sort of thinking. 00:29:01.420 --> 00:29:05.000 And in order to do that, you have to reduce their 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.000 level of volatility and then start with a series 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:12.579 of questions and interactions that lead them 00:29:12.579 --> 00:29:14.940 to that conclusion. So when we were all back 00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:18.829 at the table, all I had to say is, How great 00:29:18.829 --> 00:29:22.930 would it be if we could make this work now? Imagine 00:29:22.930 --> 00:29:26.289 the success. And it just reframed things for 00:29:26.289 --> 00:29:29.109 everybody else in the room. And in that instance, 00:29:29.230 --> 00:29:32.089 it worked. We ended up settling and being able 00:29:32.089 --> 00:29:36.190 to continue to use our brand. That's great. You 00:29:36.190 --> 00:29:40.650 had mentioned you made several mistakes, of course. 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.119 Give me what are the most common mistakes that 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:51.799 people can make when trying to network and how 00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:55.819 can they avoid it? That's very interesting. I 00:29:55.819 --> 00:29:58.440 would say that really does depend on the person. 00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:01.200 There are definitely people whose most common 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:04.299 mistake is not going deep enough and people whose 00:30:04.299 --> 00:30:07.640 most common mistake is going too deep. For instance, 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.299 because sometimes, listen, I'm just at a networking 00:30:11.299 --> 00:30:14.059 event. I'm not here to tell you my life story 00:30:14.059 --> 00:30:16.599 and I don't really want to hear yours. I want 00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.240 to connect with you, but I don't need you to 00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:21.220 go that deep in. It's making me uncomfortable. 00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:24.440 And then there are people who are so surface 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:28.259 level, so shallow that it never moves beyond 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:32.140 the small talk. And small talk is literally a 00:30:32.140 --> 00:30:36.420 filler. It's used so you can start to feel each 00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:38.960 other out, judge each other's tone, body language, 00:30:39.059 --> 00:30:41.920 and receptivity so that you can actually converse, 00:30:41.980 --> 00:30:44.799 right? As opposed to, hey, how's the weather? 00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.740 But there's people who never move past it. And 00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:51.079 it's been incredible to me how those two extremes 00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:53.039 can sometimes be at the same event, but they 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:57.339 can. And what I would say is try to examine what's 00:30:57.339 --> 00:31:00.859 working for you and what's not working for you 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:04.230 and make small adjustments. Like what Michael 00:31:04.230 --> 00:31:06.170 said in the beginning, you do still want to be 00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:09.009 authentic. If you're a person who connects deep, 00:31:09.210 --> 00:31:11.589 pretending to be shallow isn't going to get you 00:31:11.589 --> 00:31:14.230 very far. But if you're consistently noticing 00:31:14.230 --> 00:31:16.210 that you're making people uncomfortable with 00:31:16.210 --> 00:31:18.950 your questions, or if you're consistently noticing 00:31:18.950 --> 00:31:22.009 that the conversation is so shallow that the 00:31:22.009 --> 00:31:25.329 person's eyes keep wandering to, can I go talk 00:31:25.329 --> 00:31:27.470 to someone else? What's happening in that section 00:31:27.470 --> 00:31:29.509 of the room? Could it possibly be more interesting 00:31:29.509 --> 00:31:33.869 than this person? And adjust accordingly to that 00:31:33.869 --> 00:31:37.789 while still being true to yourself. You can. 00:31:38.009 --> 00:31:44.170 What I've found is ever since the pandemic, people 00:31:44.170 --> 00:31:46.710 have relied on Zoom and cell phones and everything. 00:31:46.829 --> 00:31:51.490 But the days of building your customer base is 00:31:51.490 --> 00:31:54.890 gone. And the time of building relationships 00:31:54.890 --> 00:31:58.730 is really around. I used to be in the mortgage 00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:01.200 business. And I used to come home with a shoebox 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.839 full of business cards. Yay. Look how great I 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.299 was. It was horrible. I learned that after a 00:32:07.299 --> 00:32:10.279 three or four hour networking event, if I come 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:14.039 home with 15 or 20 business cards, because I 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:17.980 know I created a relationship with them, then 00:32:17.980 --> 00:32:20.579 I can move on. I did very good. I did very well. 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.299 So it's good. So now last but not least. Okay. 00:32:24.339 --> 00:32:27.720 So you take a breath. Okay. Last but not least. 00:32:28.109 --> 00:32:33.269 Very empathetic of you, Michael Foreman. How 00:32:33.269 --> 00:32:36.329 do you see the fusion of stoicism and empathy 00:32:36.329 --> 00:32:40.309 shaping the future of networking and leadership? 00:32:41.910 --> 00:32:46.190 What I see it doing is helping people avoid, 00:32:46.450 --> 00:32:49.210 and it's actually very close to what you just 00:32:49.210 --> 00:32:51.150 said. It really dovetails on what you just said. 00:32:51.329 --> 00:32:54.029 Helping people avoid the idea that I got to work 00:32:54.029 --> 00:32:58.829 the room. Working the room is not the goal. The 00:32:58.829 --> 00:33:01.930 goal is to build a handful of relationships that 00:33:01.930 --> 00:33:06.289 are going to propel your business and maybe even 00:33:06.289 --> 00:33:10.670 your professional life forward, right? You never 00:33:10.670 --> 00:33:13.250 know. Some of these people could, in a few years, 00:33:13.410 --> 00:33:16.569 play a pivotal role. They could help you get 00:33:16.569 --> 00:33:20.440 your next job. It could be a massive shift. So 00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:22.359 you don't want to work the room. You want to 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:26.559 know the people in the room. Take a real human 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:30.259 interest in who they are, what is it that's interesting 00:33:30.259 --> 00:33:32.920 about them and what they do. So to the extent 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:34.539 you're talking about what someone does for a 00:33:34.539 --> 00:33:36.640 living, you're doing it so that you can better 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:39.200 understand that person, now better understand 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:44.480 what it is you can get from them. naturally help 00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:46.920 you to get more from one another. It helps to 00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:51.099 build this symbiotic relationship. And that symbiosis, 00:33:51.140 --> 00:33:55.519 that self -controlled empathic symbiosis is the 00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:58.819 best type of leadership out there. And remember 00:33:58.819 --> 00:34:02.660 that you are still in control of your part of 00:34:02.660 --> 00:34:05.180 the conversation. You are in control of yourself, 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:09.360 no matter what they say. You control how you 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:13.300 respond. So you can twist and take this conversation 00:34:13.300 --> 00:34:16.579 to a place that you think is right based on the 00:34:16.579 --> 00:34:19.780 relationship you want to build. But take that 00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:24.139 minute to find that real human interest. I promise 00:34:24.139 --> 00:34:25.880 you, you guys, I don't know if Michael mentioned 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.320 it, but I'm also a TED Talk producer. It's my 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:31.559 sort of part -time pro bono community activity. 00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:34.980 I've produced over 80 TEDx and TED Talks. And 00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:38.639 what I've learned is that everyone, in this world 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:43.579 everyone has an idea that can make things different 00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:47.559 and better and that is worth sharing and if i 00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:51.360 take a beat and get to know that person now if 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.659 i'm in a networking context i want to be careful 00:34:53.659 --> 00:34:57.119 i don't spend all my time with one individual 00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.360 because that's not the intention or the purpose 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.980 of the event but i want to go in deep enough 00:35:02.980 --> 00:35:07.360 to figure out their humanness and not just the 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.840 label on their business card before I move on 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:14.280 to the next person. Outstanding. Very good. Cher, 00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:18.179 I can't begin to tell you how glad I am that 00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:20.719 you came on this podcast. I feel that we can 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:24.369 talk another two hours if we want to. because 00:35:24.369 --> 00:35:26.449 you're very easy to talk to. And you obviously 00:35:26.449 --> 00:35:29.889 were very good at what you did because the way 00:35:29.889 --> 00:35:33.010 that you speak, the way that you negotiate, everything 00:35:33.010 --> 00:35:36.429 had a very calming effect on me. I don't know 00:35:36.429 --> 00:35:39.309 about my listeners, but on me. So I think you 00:35:39.309 --> 00:35:41.929 did very well. If somebody wanted to get hold 00:35:41.929 --> 00:35:44.809 of you, how would they do it? I appreciate it. 00:35:44.829 --> 00:35:46.969 I am now all over the place because of this book. 00:35:47.050 --> 00:35:49.530 Feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. I will 00:35:49.530 --> 00:35:53.190 warn your audience. I do get a lot of messages 00:35:53.190 --> 00:35:55.670 and connection requests on LinkedIn. I promise 00:35:55.670 --> 00:35:57.889 I get to every single one. Just sometimes it 00:35:57.889 --> 00:36:00.469 takes me a week or two. But if you want to reach 00:36:00.469 --> 00:36:02.349 out to me on LinkedIn, I'm more than happy to 00:36:02.349 --> 00:36:06.949 respond to you. You can also go to www .sharminkruze 00:36:06.949 --> 00:36:09.769 .com. That is my impossible to say and even more 00:36:09.769 --> 00:36:12.739 impossible to spell name. And that is the website 00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:18.539 I chose. So you can also just Google Stoic Empathy 00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:23.119 and I will come up. Very good. Cher, I can't 00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:25.400 begin to tell you how nice this was, how great 00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:28.460 this was. And I look forward to speaking with 00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:31.340 you again. Thank you. I do, too. I had a great 00:36:31.340 --> 00:36:35.260 time. Thanks for having me on. Well, hold on, 00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:38.059 folks. Don't go anywhere. 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So Quit Your Way to Success by Rodney 00:37:17.590 --> 00:37:22.030 Davis, available now on Amazon. And this is a 00:37:22.030 --> 00:37:25.469 nonprofit called Revved Up Kids. This is something 00:37:25.469 --> 00:37:29.030 I believe in wholeheartedly. Revved Up Kids is 00:37:29.030 --> 00:37:32.449 on a mission to protect children and teens from 00:37:32.449 --> 00:37:35.309 sexual abuse. exploitation, and trafficking. 00:37:35.550 --> 00:37:38.210 They provide prevention training programs for 00:37:38.210 --> 00:37:41.869 children, teens, and adults. To learn more, go 00:37:41.869 --> 00:37:46.750 to revvedupkids .org. That's R -E -V -V -E -D 00:37:46.750 --> 00:37:53.889 -U -P -K -I -D -S dot org. Well, that's a wrap, 00:37:53.989 --> 00:37:56.849 folks. A huge thank you to our special guests 00:37:56.849 --> 00:38:00.170 for sharing such incredible insights today. And 00:38:00.170 --> 00:38:03.570 of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing 00:38:03.570 --> 00:38:06.489 listeners, for tuning in and spending your time 00:38:06.489 --> 00:38:10.389 with us. Remember, networking isn't about being 00:38:10.389 --> 00:38:13.730 perfect. It's about being present. So take what 00:38:13.730 --> 00:38:16.309 you've learned today, get out there and make 00:38:16.309 --> 00:38:19.309 some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this 00:38:19.309 --> 00:38:22.280 episode. Don't forget to subscribe, leave us 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.920 a review, and share it with someone who could 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:28.219 use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep 00:38:28.219 --> 00:38:31.920 the conversation going. You can find me on Apple, 00:38:32.059 --> 00:38:36.599 Spotify, YouTube, or my website, michaelaforman. 00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:40.679 Remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep 00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:43.239 connecting, and keep building those relationships. 00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:46.820 This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take 00:38:46.820 --> 00:38:48.480 care and happy networking.