Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed, building
profitable connections. Welcome to the show,
folks. I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're
listening to the podcast where networking is
more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
It's an art and a talent. But here's the twist.
It's an art and talent you can actually learn.
Yes, even if you're the person hiding in the
corner at every event, pretending to check your
emails. Networking isn't just a nice skill to
have. It's a game changer. And when you get good
at it, you'll wonder why you didn't start sooner.
More connections, more opportunities, more profits.
It's like unlocking a cheat code for life. So
whether you're the life of the party or the just
let me stay at home and text type, We've got
something for you. Stick around. Let's turn those
awkward small talk moments into big wins. Hello,
everybody. Now, I have an exciting guest. His
name is Swire Ho. And he was born and raised
in Hong Kong, but he immigrated to Los Angeles
in 1996. And he's done so much. He has such a
vast background that I would do it an injustice.
if I tried to tell you. So let me just introduce
you. Swire, how are you? And welcome to the show.
I'm doing well, Michael. Thanks for having me
on your show. Good. I'm glad you're here, first
of all. Why don't you tell us a little bit about
yourself? My name is Swire, and thanks for the
introduction. I came to LA in 1996. I originally
wanted to be in entertainment, but I don't play,
I don't act, I'm not good looking. But I wanted
to be in the entertainment industry, so I studied
and became a recording engineer. So I worked
there for a couple of years. Fast forward a little
bit on the day of my honeymoon, I found out that
the company that I worked for at the time went
out of business. So that started my entrepreneurial
journey. So started first in the CD, DVD replication
business. If you're old enough like me, back
in the days, people still buy a lot of this.
I'm in the right place at the right time. So
did that for about 10 years. In 2013, we sold
the business to a competitor in LA. So hindsight,
that was very good timing. So got into. promotional
product business. And now I call myself the promo
guy and have been in the promo industry for about
12 years now. Good, good. Wow, that's great.
And seems like your timing was perfect in just
about everything that you've done. But let's
switch this around a little bit. How has strategic
networking played a role in your ability to turn
creative ideas into successful business projects?
I wish I know more about networking. Like when
I was younger, like I love networking. This is
what I do. This is how I find business. But for
example, now my son is a sophomore in college
right now. So my advice to him at this point
will be you should network with the alumni, with
your professors, with other students, friends
that you have. Because I tell him, he always
complained to me that the job market is tough,
right? There's a lot of people who want the same
job. But I told him most positions, like even
the executive positions, are taken before they're
even on the market. Why? Because people network,
people know who is up and coming, who they want
to work with, who they want to be on the team.
So those dream position actually might not be
on the market, but you're able to get through
them through networking. So I think that could
relate to business as well. Like the best deal
out there are not in the open for request for
quote. It's already given through handshakes,
networking, and then people working from behind
the scenes. You're absolutely right. And let's
just go back a little bit. You said your son
was in college and you told him that networking
was so important. I can't begin to tell you how
right you are, because even today where I have
friends in. high places, they network through
their college buddies and they do work. One guy
goes hunting and invites all of his college buddies
with him and they talk business over hunting.
Everything is networking. Networking is so crucial.
And what goes with that is the trust. The trust
factor is so big and so important that when you
go to college with these guys, you have that
built in. So half your battle has been fought
already. Okay, so what are some key strategies
you use to build and maintain strong business
relationships that lead to profitable collaborations?
I think one of the key to success, if I can use
that word, is I like to... follow up with my
customer? Because think about, listener can think
about your experience right now. When is the
last time that a sales rep or a representative
checked in with you after you purchased from
them? Chances are not that often, but if you
are in business development, if you are a business
owner, why don't you check in with your customer?
Ask them a few questions. Are you happy with
the product and services that we provided? And
then you listen. Sometimes they will give you
concern. Sometimes they will complain a little
bit. I wish you could deliver on Thursday instead
of Wednesday. If this is something that you could
solve or do quickly, do that without them asking
you again. So you'll be surprised how you could
build on your customer loyalty that way just
because you listen. Most big companies don't
listen. Or if you try to complain, they have
a whole department just listen to you, but then
that they're not going to do anything. You're
absolutely right. And the follow -up, I'm jumping
ahead like towards the end of the podcast already,
but the follow -up is so crucial and so important
with your customer base. What system do you use
for follow -up and how do you follow up? I have
a plan that works for me. So obviously, everyone
is in different business and do different things.
Actually, I think the best one that I have learned
is from a financial planner. So what he does,
obviously, the cycle that he signed up a client
is longer than when you buy promotional product
is faster transactional. But what he would do
is he actually set up for customer loyalty and
his referral. He has this planner. So before
he signed up a client, he would tell them, we're
going to work together. We're very excited. If
all goes well, if I'm able to provide what you're
looking for, would you be willing to refer me
to your friends or colleagues or family member?
So he already set that in place. A couple months
during the time worked together, they... check
in, make sure that they're happy. And then he
go ask for that questions again. So the amount
of referral that he could receive as a financial
planner, that skyrocket. So there are different
ways that we could do that. For me, I'll ask
my customer if I know that they work in a larger
organization, the same question, do you have
any colleagues that could use promotional product?
Would you mind to introduce me to them? That's
how I'm able to build my relationship. You think
it's slow, but... one at a time, one at a time,
then what if you never lose any customer? Then
how is your business going to grow in five years
or 10 years? Absolutely. I used to be a mortgage
banker. And we did almost the very same thing
for referrals. Now, they said you should ask
for referrals when you're just starting out,
when you first start with that customer or client.
But I didn't do that. I waited until we were
about halfway through and said, are you happy
so far? And they would, of course, say yes. I
would ask for a referral. And at the end, when
they were so happy, I would ask for a referral.
So I would ask twice. in the sales cycle. And
it came back to me very well. What communication
techniques do you use to gain trust and influence
in a corporate setting? I think the way it's
changing right now, and you mentioned it in the
beginning of the show, Michael, like there are
a generation now, they don't like to speak over
the phones anymore. Some of my clients, I can
never get them over the phone. Email maybe, but
they do text and they will be available. a lot
longer if I text them. So I try to adapt, I try
to accommodate, right? So maybe they only do
LinkedIn DM. Maybe they only do text messages
after 4 .30 PM. So I make notes in my CRM system,
what they like to do and how I'm able to reach
them. Some of them still available before 8 AM,
before the madness start, as people call it.
So I learn how people like to communicate. I
learn, adapt to the style. that they like to
do things. Some people are more straight on point.
Some people like to see a lot of options. So
as networking, you got to be open to everyone.
There's not one style for networking. It's just
when you go to different situation, different
networking groups, there are different dynamics.
You might have to shift what works for you at
other locations. Do you network in any way, person
to person anymore? I do. I still go to a lot
of in -person networking. I think those actually
works for me better. A lot of buyers, they would
normally don't answer my email, don't take my
phone call. If I see them face to face, at least
I'll get a face time for a couple of minutes
to make an impression. So I think if you are
targeting larger account, if you know the buyer
or the decision maker is going to be there, you
should be there. Absolutely. Listen, I am a firm
believer in networking face -to -face. Networking
so when you walk into a room, you feel the vibe
of the room, you feel the vibe of the person,
and you see a lot more of what he does or she
does and how they do business, and you can do
business the very same way. Okay, so when presenting
a new idea or project, How do you communicate
its value in a way that resonates with corporate
leaders and stakeholders? Then you have to do
your research. So I think we're fortunate versus
back in the days in the CD business that we are...
Having fingertips, a lot of the information,
the bio, what people have done or what the corporation
has done. So when you actually speak to them
in person or via virtual meeting, you know a
lot about them already. So with the rise of AI,
it's actually easier. You could, if there are
someone, if you do a search, something's got
to pull up. So if you don't know your client
or the company or what the project is going to
be out, when you walk into a meeting, you lost
the account. So people want to be known, people
want to see, show me that you know me, right?
So when we talk to someone, if we could relate
to them, if we can build a rapport quickly, then
the chances of them opening up for our question
to answer things that we know is a lot higher.
But when you see someone... It seems like you
have not been preparing and you don't know nothing
about their project or their pain point. Then
you probably get shut out or that meeting is
going to end pretty quickly. It's true. There's
a mantra in networking. If they know you, like
you and trust you, they'll do business with you
and know you and like you. That's pretty easy.
Look, you're a nice guy. You're a good looking
guy. Everything goes all right. But that trust
factor is so important. And I stole this idea,
by the way, but I have a system. It's called
FORM, F -O -R -M, Family, Occupation, Recreation,
and a Message. And you get the person to talk
about themselves because people love to talk
about themselves. And the more that they talk
about themselves, that wall comes down a little
and the trust factor goes up. It's very integral.
It's very important that you gain the trust and
that you have them talk about themselves so that
all that comes together at the same time. What
are some of the most effective ways you expand
your professional network with the right people
who can turn your ideas into reality? I think
going tied to the previous point that you make,
right? So people love to work with experts. So
how can you make yourself become an expert in?
You don't necessarily have to be the best, but
then if you're the most well -known or if you
appear to be an expert in your industry, people
will likely get that conversation with you better.
So actually, again, I learned from a PR expert.
Her title was, she asked me, how do you become
the go -to expert in your industry? So you think
about that, listener. If you have, when I mentioned
coffee, when I mentioned luxury watches, when
I mentioned vacation, you already have. some
brand or some places in mind, why would they
come up like that? So in your industry, how can
you become that person or that few person people
will mention when they mention your industry?
So I think if I'm able to do that, and if listener
can able to get to those point, so the conversation
will be a lot easier, right? So if you're the
expert, you could probably afford to charge more.
than people who are regular. So it's my continued
journey, try to become the expert. That's why
I'm doing the podcast. I love doing podcasts.
Because if you people get the perception that
if you could talk about what you do, you probably
know what you're talking about. Sometime. That's
good. That's good because your goal is to be
the expert in your field and all of this is part
of it. But I'm sure that you've made mistakes
in the past. Okay. So just give me a general
idea of the mistakes you've made and how did
you overcome them? i'm not good at small talking
not at all like you mentioned in the beginning
as well trying to hide in the corner and pretend
i'm doing email i do that still nowadays like
even after almost 20 years now so what i overcome
those mistakes because i get nervous when I walk
into a room with sometimes 100 people that I
don't know, I follow my routine, I need to warm
up. So I normally will actually go to the magnet,
right, the alpha in the in the meeting or in
the event itself. I don't talk to anyone, right?
They they're welcoming there. They know everybody.
So I know by talking to him. or her, they will
give me a lot of energy. They will ask me a lot
of questions because they know what they're doing.
And after the conversation, I'll ask them to
introduce me to people that I might want to know.
I wanted to tell them who I'm trying to meet,
what kind of company works for me, and maybe
what I'm here for. A lot of times they will point
me to the right direction. So I think... I need
to work on my small talk, but I'll continue to
do my warm -up talk so that I become better after
I warm up in networking. That's very good. And
it's really important that you do that warm -up
and that you practice because this is a skill
like anything else, okay? The more you practice,
the better you get. And I do a whole thing when
I go on stages and I coach people. whether they
are introverts or extroverts. If they're introverts,
it's not much different than an extrovert. I
have what's called a wingman and I'll go into
that later on. It's really not much different,
but you're doing the right thing because you're
practicing to get to be better. And once you're
better, you become the expert in your field and
then everything opens up for you. Okay. Can you
share a time? when a connection helped you overcome
a challenge and open doors, an unexpected opening
of the doors? Yeah, actually a recent example.
So I'm not going to name names, but I went to
a conference for a hospital organization last
year. So I met all the buyers, all the important
people. So there were a lot of people, big events.
So I talked to the main buyer of a hospital group.
They have about... 20 ,000 employees in LA. So
bigger count for me potentially. But as those
type of meeting, a lot of people are jumping
onto the person as well. So I actually get maybe
two minutes of FaceTime. Nothing happened. I
checked in. I do all my email. He's busy. But
I met him again in November, right? At another
separate event. So he remember we met. So we
continue to talk. Still nothing happened until
about two months ago. I email him and I keep
following up with him. And he said, OK, actually,
do you have an opportunity for you? And we get
connected. And now we are getting little orders
from that big hospital group. So I think the
challenge and then for a lot of us is we're all
busy. Right. Do you ever forget your follow up?
How often do you follow up? Like at what point?
Do you give up? A lot of us give up after maybe
a couple of tries, maybe five tries. I think
like the longest I follow up with a person and
open up door, I think it was five years. That's
a long time. That's a long time. It's really,
there's in the sales force, you have to reach
out and touch somebody. touch their email, talk
to them, whatever, like six to 12 times before
they would respond to you. So you have to put
a lot of work into this while you're not getting
any response, but you have to keep at it. Now,
I emailed somebody about seven months ago. It
was an event planner that I wanted to talk at
this show. And nothing, crickets, nothing for
seven months. Last month, she emailed me and
talking as if we were talking for the entire
seven months. So it's mind blowing. But once
you extinguish your options with a potential
client, let's say, because I have a secret sauce
for following up. And after all of that, if they
still don't want to talk to me, I put them onto
my drip campaign. In other words, they're emailed
once a month just to keep me in front of them
and keep me top of mind. Okay, so never give
up. Practice, but never give up. If someone wanted
to strengthen their business communication and
networking skills, what's the first step that
they should take? They should definitely learn
more about their ideal client, meaning that we
all have our ideal client. One that will spend
the most money with you, one that will pay you
full price, and you love working with them. So
if you have not figured out who your ideal clients
are, you should definitely do that. And after
you know who your ideal clients are, think about
their demographics. Think about what they like
to do. Are they golfers? Are they going to be
at the gym? Are they going to be at a corporate
retreat? And once you identify all those things,
you got to be there. So if they're a soccer game,
you go to a soccer game. If they are only hanging
out at a country club, you got to get a membership.
So I think these are very important questions.
A lot of us sometimes run in circles. We attend
a lot of meetings, and then we complain that
it's not good for us because you're not going
to the right event, even though an event might
cost you, let's say, $1 ,000 to attend. If your
ideal clients are going to be there, there is
really you should consider doing that. Yes, free
meeting is good. Virtual meeting, no cost, not
good. But are you finding your ideal clients
there? So I think if you can answer the question
for who your ideal clients are, the rest of what
you're looking for will follow. Very good. Very
good. And so let's bring this full swing. All
right. Tell me, Swire, what is your favorite
marketing tactic that you would employ today?
I would still find people where they are, especially
I will find an industry that none of my competitors
are there. Because if you think about in my industry
and promotional product, people think it's a
commodity. But then if I talk to the right people,
which has the right pain point that I can solve,
then it will be easier. It's a no brainer conversation.
You know, going back to what I just said, to
find out my ideal clients, no more. about them
than they know about themselves. If you can do
that, then you are in a good point. If they only
hang out in a certain place, really, you should
go there. Or if they only play, if they all play
pickleball, for example, or if they all do running,
you got to take up the hobby. So I think really,
if you are strategic, and you wanted to make
best use of your time, knowing where they are,
what they like, and then do and meet them there.
Great. Okay. So let me ask you a question. So
if you were to give me one idea that my listeners
could take away from everything you've said,
they could take away and they could employ it
today or tomorrow, what would you suggest that
would be? I think I'm going to put in technology
in there as well. Assume that your ideal client,
or even if you are new in business, you don't
know who your ideal client are. Do you dream
of the perfect client, right? One that pay you
full price. You're happy to work with them and
they buy, they love buying your product or services,
right? And then you go in and ask AI, act as
your industry. I'm trying to target these are
my client. Where are they mostly located? What
kind of events do they hang out? What kind of
magazines do they read? What kind of social media
platform are they most likely to be on? And then
learn, at least in a general sense, AI can give
you that feedback. And then now you can do your
own research to confirm, are the ideal client
really on those platforms? Are they really at
those events? Then do yourself a favor to go
to those events, sign up for maybe their conferences,
and be on the social media platform that they
have, and then engage conversation with them.
That's great. Swire, if somebody wanted to get
hold of you, either they wanted to buy your services
or they just wanted to talk to you, what's the
best way that they would get hold of you? I'm
most active on LinkedIn. So you could go on LinkedIn,
just type in Swire Ho. You'll find me and happy
to connect with everyone. I think in order to
be an expert, another point that the PR expert
told me. A lot of time nowadays after the conversation,
a client would definitely Google your name and
Google your company. What would they see when
they type in your name or your company? Are they
good things or are they the bad reviews that
people have been living behind you? Try my name,
Swirehole, hashtag the promo guy and to see what.
So if you could plan. even on social media and
on web search about the content or the material
that you want people to see. And then people
will start thinking you as the expert because
it's why it's not just on the web, on social
media, talking about cooking, talking about his
backyard hobbies. He's talking about his industry.
So yeah, he has been in industry for a while.
So I encourage everyone to try that and see if
that works for you. That's great. Swire, I can't
thank you enough. This was a great podcast. And
thank you for coming on my show. Thanks, Michael.
Well, hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let
me just read a few of our sponsors that we have.
Struggling to reach success? Maybe it's time
to quit. In Quit Your Way to Success. by Rodney
Davis. This reveals 27 steps to breaking bad
habits that hold you back. This powerful book
helps you rewire your mindset, take control of
your actions, and turn setbacks into stepping
stones. With real -life examples, motivational
quotes, and actionable lessons, especially for
sales professionals, you'll gain the tools to
quit what's stopping you and start winning. Transform
your future today. So Quit Your Way to Success
by Rodney Davis, available now on Amazon. And
this is a nonprofit called Revved Up Kids. This
is something I believe in wholeheartedly. Revved
Up Kids is on a mission to protect children and
teens from sexual abuse, exploitation, and trafficking.
They provide prevention training programs for
children. teens, and adults. To learn more, go
to revvedupkids .org. That's R -E -V -V -E -D
-U -P -K -I -D -S .org. Well, that's a wrap,
folks. A huge thank you to our special guests
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
with us. Remember, networking isn't about being
perfect. It's about being present. So take what
you've learned today, get out there and make
some meaningful connections. If you enjoyed this
episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us
a review and share it with someone who could
use a little networking inspiration. Let's keep
the conversation going. You can find me on Apple,
Spotify, YouTube or my website. Michael A. Foreman,
remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep
connecting, and keep building those relationships.
This is Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take
care and happy networking.