Hello, and welcome to Networking Unleashed Building Profitable Connections.
Welcome to the show.
I'm your host, Michael Foreman, and you're listening to the podcast where networking
is more than just awkward handshakes and bad coffee.
It's an art and a talent.
But here's the twist.
It's an art and a talent you can actually learn from.
Yes, even if you're a person hiding in the corner at every event pretending to check
emails.
Networking isn't just a nice skill to have.
It's a game changer.
When you get good at it, you wonder why it didn't start sooner.
More connections, more opportunities, more profits, it's like unlocking the cheat code
for life.
So whether you're the life of the party or let me stay in the corner tight, we've got
something for you.
So stick around.
Let's turn those awkward small talk moments into things.
Now I would like to introduce my guest.
His name is Eric Eden and Eric has been a chief marketing officer for 20 years and has
always been with world of thumbies.
He has his own startup called World of Thumbs, which is focused on better business networking
and is the host of the Remarkable Marketing Podcast.
Eric, hi.
How are you doing?
What's going on?
You're doing great.
Thanks for having me on the show.
Glad to be here.
Great.
I'm so glad that I have you because you've got loads of experience in networking communications
and you really tell it like it is.
So let's just start off with what was your journey and how you made it to now?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I've had the privilege of getting to work in tech marketing for 25 years.
I'm very old, older than Google, older than the internet, but a big part of that journey
has been building a network.
So I was on LinkedIn when it first started way back in 2005 and I have built up like 10,000
connections.
Plus I have been big in events.
I worked for an event software company for 10 years as the head of marketing.
And so I've been to events all over the world and learned best practices for in-person event
networking.
And I think that I've worked for web-based software companies, software as a service for
the last 10 years or so, 10, 15 years or so, and I've really loved it.
And one of the things I'm working on now with my startup is how can we do better business
networking?
I think we deserve a better next generation social media experience for business networking
and that's what I'm creating with Workverse.
So happy to talk a little bit about that today because I think it has some foundational
things in what does better business networking look like?
That's great.
Okay.
So with all that, can you just share with me and with my audience what a personal experience,
how it affected your career?
Yeah, I think that a lot of really great experiences working for the growth companies
and also very difficult at times because working in fast-paced, high-growth environments where
they really push you every day.
And so I've worked in some really great organizations.
I've worked with some great people.
But I think what I've realized over the years is people's greatest weakness is always their
greatest strength.
And that's a very interesting sociological thing for me to realize as I'm meeting new
people and networking is getting to really know them and understanding what people's
strengths really are is really where it's at for me.
And I think that the personal experience that I've had from this is that I'm a driver of
growth.
I just drive, drive, drive.
And when I was young in my career, I would just write over people because I was so excited
about getting to the goal and I would do anything in my way.
And that was also a negative.
So that's what I mean by the biggest thing I've learned is that you have to sort of,
even with yourself, manage your greatest strength and your greatest weakness together.
And so I think I've personally made some progress on that.
And I've also just noticed this dynamic in other people, how they work on their strengths
and weaknesses.
And it's just a really interesting sociological thing to...
You hit on something big.
You hit on, first of all, building a personal relationship far outweighs building a customer
base.
So you're trying to get really involved with the customers, with those relationships.
But I think the most important part is that you're listening more, that you have to listen
to your prospective relationship or your prospective client.
And you really have to listen and see what they're saying because you can't sit down
at a table and just think about the next thing that you want to say.
But listen to what they have to say.
Pause, that's very, very important.
You're pausing and then you're responding to what they have to say.
So it means a whole lot more to somebody, don't you think?
Absolutely.
And I think this leads to quality is so much more important than quantity and networking
and connections.
When I've gone to events and people said, how many business cards did you come back with?
I'm like, it's not about the number, it's about the quality of the connection you had
with them people and is that really going to turn into a relationship or just free
chashkis you got like t-shirts and coffee mugs that you'll never use again.
So I just think that that's very interesting is that it's really these days, I think people
drive for the quantity of how many thousands of connections or followers you have.
And it's really not about that, it's about engagement.
So I think that's a very interesting thing for people to look at.
I used to go to networking events.
I was in a mortgage field and I used to come home with a shoebox filled with business cards
saying, look how great I did.
And when you really think about it, I didn't speak to anybody more than like two minutes.
So the whole idea, what I tell everyone now is when you go to a networking event, let's
say it's three hours, four hours, you shouldn't come back with more than 15 or 20 business
cards because those business cards are people that you sit down with, you talked with, and
that you'll follow up with because you know as well as I do, the follow up is more important
than actually meeting the person themselves.
So you really have to go through this.
Absolutely.
So with everything, what do you think your personal vision is?
What gives me excited every day to get going and run hard at it is I like to create something
and to grow it.
I'm a driver of growth and that's what excites me.
That's why I've always worked for private equity and venture capital back companies is
because I wanted to create something that has value for the people at the company, the
investors, the customers of the company.
I wanted to create that value.
I never really wanted a job that was like, oh, just maintenance mode.
You can go in there, you can grow it a little bit and get a paycheck and you can have good
life work balance.
For some people, that's what they want and that's great.
What I wanted is I want to work for high growth companies.
I want to work for companies that create a lot of value, double in size every year and
really deliver something that people find helpful in reducing their costs, doing things more
efficiently or driving more revenue.
That's really what software does.
Some people are like, how do you get so excited about software?
I'm like, it makes people's lives better.
And so that's my vision.
Yeah.
No, that's good.
That's good.
Well, you told me your vision, but what are some challenges that you faced and how did
you overcome those challenges?
Yeah.
So in the different companies that I've worked for, you're running the challenges of being
able to achieve growth and make it a win for everybody involved, the investors, the people,
the company, and the customers, all of those groups.
If you don't have good product market fit is one issue.
So you have a product that doesn't really solve the issues the right way.
And the best way to solve that is to talk to the customers and get their direct input.
The second problem I had is that certain products that were almost too niche.
So they were focused on one industry and maybe one part of one industry.
It's not necessarily a big enough idea in a lot of cases.
And so that was sort of limiting.
Other businesses were more limited by geography to not only a country, but even local areas
for different reasons.
And so those sorts of limitations on business, there's ways to always solve them.
But thinking through how to walk through those steps of overcoming those obstacles takes
a lot of practice and thought.
And some people just don't work through them and the companies just don't succeed.
And that's sort of hard to watch.
But when it does happen, it's amazing to watch.
It's really great.
So, all right.
So if there was one essential tip that you can give somebody to improve their networking
or sales skills, what would it be?
I learned this actually at a really young age.
There was a family friend who owned a car dealership.
And he used to always come and spend time with my family.
And I was like, wow, that guy is like really amazing.
What is it about that guy that is really amazing?
And my dad said, well, Eric, he runs a car dealership.
He sells cars.
He knows how to build relationships with people.
I'm like, well, what do you mean?
And he said, well, do you notice how he always takes an interest in you more than telling
you about himself?
And I thought about it.
I was like, wow, that's right.
And so I think about this in terms of networking because a lot of times, whether it's at an
in-person event or whether people call me or email me, a lot of people walk up and they'll
just start talking about themselves for like 10 minutes straight.
That's just very awkward.
Like, it's the opposite of my friend who ran the car dealership is that he would say, how
are you doing?
Tell me, why are you here?
What are you hoping to learn at this event?
And he would just really take a genuine interest in everything related to me.
And then once he had done that, I was completely willing to talk to him and hear about things
that was going on with him.
But people don't necessarily balance that properly.
I get emails from people all the time that it's just like, it's 100% about them.
I get phone calls where people just jump in and there's 100% about them.
And I even see it in-person events.
It's super awkward.
What happens?
Well, you know, there's a mantra in networking.
If they know you, like you, and trust you, they'll do business with you.
And I say this all the time.
I say, you know, to know you, well, you know, everybody knows you, but likes you.
Well, that kind of cuts the numbers down in half.
But trust you, that's the kicker.
That's what really will have those people purchase from you.
If they know you, like you, and trust you, they will do business with you.
So when you go to that networking table at your networking event, that's always in the
back of your mind.
But I use something called form, F-O-R-M, family, occupation, recreation, and a message
that you both can be on the same level at.
Okay?
So I'm thinking every time when I'm talking to somebody, well, tell me about your family,
about your husband, your wife, your sister, your brother, your son.
You know, once somebody begins to talk about themselves, they love it.
You know, they can talk about themselves for hours.
But you know what?
You're getting them to lower the wall that's between the two of you, and they're learning
to trust you and ask them questions about their occupation, what do they do, or, you
know, whatever, recreation, do they like to go skiing, do they like to play baseball,
anything like that.
Okay?
Get them to talk about themselves, and that feeling of trust will far outweigh any other
thing.
Right?
So that's what I've learned with networking so far.
Absolutely.
I agree.
100%.
That's great.
So it is.
So tell me, do you have something like that when you go to a networking event that you
employ?
Yeah, I would just say take a genuine interest in other people.
And I always start off very similar to the acronym that you have.
If I'm at a conference where people have traveled in, I always start off, where are you from?
You know, and then I can take clues from where they're from.
Are they in sports teams from that area?
Often you can tell people they're interest by different things that they're wearing,
that they have with them.
And you just take a general interest in other people.
And it's fascinating that if you get into the conversations like you were just saying,
and you let people talk about themselves for a majority of the conversation, when those
people walk away from the conversation, they're like, the other person's like, wow, that was
an amazing conversation because people love to hear themselves talk about themselves.
Whereas if the ratio is flipped, if you went in and talked 80, 90, 100% about just yourself,
people would be like, that was a terrible conversation.
So that's sort of my formula is let the other person do the majority of the talking, not
to the extreme where it's awkward, but I think you don't want to be like questioning people
and just asking question, question, question.
But having a good natural conversation.
And I think the real art form of that is just taking a genuine interest.
People can tell when you're genuinely interest or when you're just trying to say something.
Like if you bring up things like the weather, that's not super helpful.
Right.
Well, I always inject humor into everything that I do.
And when you have somebody who is not funny and they're injecting humor, they can always
tell when you're forcing the humor to come out because you're like, that really wasn't
that funny.
So I'm going to walk over this way.
So you really have to be careful with what you say and how you do it, but you're right.
Let them talk about themselves.
And I think the conversation will go in the direction which you would like it to.
And with everything that you've said, what's your favorite marketing tactic?
My favorite marketing tactic is really if I want people to spend time with me, then
there needs to be an offer of value for them.
And this is also my biggest pet peeve is when people ask me for my time and they're not
really offering me any value because I place a value on my time.
And most other people do too.
So if someone comes to me and says, for example, hey, Eric, we will do an assessment of your
website with no obligation on your part.
Would you take 20 minutes to hear the result of the analysis that we did?
I'd be like, yeah, I'm interested because there's value in that for me.
They've made me an offer.
They're going to give me some insights.
I may or may not do anything with those insights, but they're made an offer.
What I really hate is when people are just like, hey, can you just give me 30 minutes
of your time?
And I'm like, no.
My time is $400 an hour.
So why would I just give you 30 minutes so you can sell me something?
No.
So I think having a valuable offer for people, it can be content.
It can be an analysis that you give to someone on a complimentary basis.
It can be some value that they would get from it, specific to the use case to what you're
selling.
It can be related to what you're doing.
You don't have to do things that are unrelated, but walk into it and give other people value
and don't require a commitment out of them to get it.
That always works.
100% of the times I've done that sort of marketing, campaigning program.
Okay.
So give me one takeaway that anybody who's listening, that they can use today or tomorrow
that they're going out, what's one takeaway that they can use right away?
I think the takeaway is be clear about who you want to serve as a customer and find out
how you can give them some value before you enter into a formal relationship where they're
paying you.
And if you can figure out something that would be truly valuable to the customer you want
and you can offer that to them, your conversion rates on networking and selling will go through
the roof.
Absolutely.
I always felt that you have to find what their problem is.
You have to find because wherever you go to a networking event, they're selling something,
doing something, that is their problem.
And what you have to do is offer a solution to the problem and then everything will happen
almost immediately.
So it's a matter of you getting to that point of offering what you can offer, you can have
a solution to their problem, whatever it may be at the time, and it would go far.
Absolutely.
Okay, so let me ask you a question.
If somebody were to get a hold of you, how would they do it?
So they can do it on LinkedIn, of course, and they can also check out my company's website,
WorkForce.com.
They can connect with me there as well.
So either of those places is great and always welcome the opportunity to meet new people
and get to know them.
That's great.
Eric, thank you very much.
I had a great time, a great conversation, and I think we'll both be doing a lot of networking
in the future.
Likewise.
Thanks for having me on the show.
Appreciate it.
Well, that's a wrap, folks.
A huge thank you to our special guests for sharing such incredible insights today and,
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in and spending your
time with us.
Remember, networking isn't about being perfect.
It's about being present.
So take what you've learned today, get out there, and make some meaningful connections.
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share
it with someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
Let's keep the conversation going.
You can find me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or my website, MichaelAForman.com.
Remember, until next time, keep practicing, keep connecting, and keep building those relationships.
This is Michael A. Foreman signing off.
Take care, and happy networking.