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Hello everybody, this is Michael Forman.

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I am with Networking Unleashed Building Profitable Connections.

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And today I have an amazing guest.

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His name is Jamie.

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We've been friends for about 50 years.

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But we both started in New York, worked our way down to Georgia.

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And he started really as a creative director on up to his owning his own business.

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But let me let me introduce you to Jamie and let him discuss everything with you.

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Jamie.

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Hi Michael.

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So my background starts even earlier as an entrepreneur.

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I started a law-mowing business with my brother, my twin brother, identical at the age of 13.

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And actually ran that business for 10 years.

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My brother and I put ourselves through school, had money to buy houses when we got married

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later on in our 20s.

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And kind of started the networking and relationship building on marketing our landscape business.

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Basically really saying hello to people and explaining what we could do and letting the

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work really prove itself.

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Most of the work we got even starting then was referral due to the great work we did.

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And that lesson actually has followed me throughout my life.

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And I could elaborate a little more on that later on.

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I went to Parsons School of Design for Communications and then VSA for additional courses.

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My first job out of college was working, if anyone can remember, we used to do paste up.

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And basically that's when you made a mechanical to go to the printer to get printing.

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So the funny story is as I was working out of Parsons, there was a sign above this big

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classroom saying computer room.

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And I'm going, what was that?

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What's going on?

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And I learned later on at my first job that PCs, basically Macs were coming in and were

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going to be used to actually create mechanicals.

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So part of my networking, I got a job working for Timeplex in their production department

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where we were doing a thousand page mechanicals, believe it or not, for all the instructional

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books.

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And I'm sitting there and I remember me, I see all these new computers.

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There was five production people in there.

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I was a freelancer and they liked my work and they said, Hey, do you know about computers?

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I said, sure.

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Of course, they didn't know a damn thing.

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I picked it up very quickly.

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Apple was very intuitive.

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A matter of fact, in good corporate sense, we worked on six months on the application.

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It was called Interlace.

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And then six months later, they sent us a trainer.

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And of course, we've been working six months in this platform and then started training

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the trainer because we were doing things like illustrations in this basic page layout

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system, the instructor home with a lot of hints and different aspects of the platform

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that can be used in laying out these books.

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So I know that was a long intro.

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After that, I moved to Atlanta and started in a production house, a company called SFI,

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Standard Forms Incorporated.

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So you can imagine they were around for a long time and then making a shift like every

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printer to digital.

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And then I helped build their production studio and then became involved in sales and networking

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and doing business presentations.

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What do you think, Mike?

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Was that what?

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Let me ask you a question.

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What personal experience impacted your business sense the most?

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You know, I guess I had the right and left brain.

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You know, most people have right, most people have left.

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I definitely have the creative side, but I do have the business side since I ran my

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own business.

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So I was always aware of ROI.

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Great.

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You know, everyone wants ROI.

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I was able to get into management and sales and not as a true salesperson, more as a

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networking and kind of category expert.

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So I would be brought in at the end to close the deal because I could speak to the marketing,

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I could speak to the business, I could speak to the strategy, the planning, execution,

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innovation and how all that happened.

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And again, you know, in my career, it was always transitioning to digital and obviously

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today it's 100% digital, but still back 20 years ago, it was a combination and evolving

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that and then getting into social media in the past 10 years and working that how to

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make themes and campaigns and actually reach the market and reach the people using my network

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of people to do that.

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So everything I've done, it's been a team effort.

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And not only did I network to get business, I networked to have freelancers, everything

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from writers, video production, illustrators, photographers.

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So it takes a team just like any movie, if you see a thousand names when it's in the

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credits, it does take a team to put together a good campaign, follow through and then report

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back on success.

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Well, you know, that's interesting.

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But with everything you've done, what do you think is your biggest challenge or was your

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your biggest challenge and how did you overcome it?

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Sometimes the biggest challenge is internal with the sales force because they are always

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afraid of something new and something that they can't control or manage.

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So that would be my biggest hurdle of them selling marketing because it's kind of really,

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it's kind of vaporware.

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It doesn't exist.

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You could talk about it, but it has to be created.

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It has to be a collaboration with the client and the salesperson and the production team.

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So that's probably the biggest hurdle of trying to get people to understand how the new technology

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works and the investment and follow through.

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So there's always been a fight of budgets that continue today.

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It's just expensive and you have to have the fortitude to do a campaign.

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When I mean a campaign, it's more than just one social media trying to go viral.

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It's a year or 18 months of planning and then responding to that and measuring and every

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quarter changing and pivoting if you have to.

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One client, we did a kickoff and realized the messaging in the beginning was just slightly

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off and we made a few adjustments and it exploded.

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So just knowing to look at the data, seeing what's coming through and then pivoting is

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also very important.

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So that's the things I've learned throughout my career.

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Yeah.

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So it's really not a one and done type situation.

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You have to constantly look at it and evaluate it and pivot where you aren't sort of speak.

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Correct.

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Correct.

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And I was heavily into B2B.

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So it's not B2C.

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It's not a product.

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We did some product marketing, but for the most part, we were B2B, selling enterprise

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accounts, get brand awareness for enterprises, for printers, things that are very hard to

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market because you're competing against an industry that's been around a hundred years

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and trying to introduce new technology.

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Sometimes it's a tough sell that it's a little more expensive.

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And again, it's the ROI is substantial.

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Talk about the ROI often, but here you are.

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You owned a business when you were 13 and networked and marketed everything you had to do on up

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to CEOs.

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So for somebody just starting out, what type of a networking tip or what could you suggest

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somebody to do to really that they can start tomorrow and really just start networking and

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getting out there?

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Well, one of the best network is friends and family.

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You just have to ask.

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You just have to ask, do you know someone and just give me an introduction.

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Cold networking today is tough just due to you could throw a resume out there and you're

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competing against thousands.

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And you're also competing against the bots that's really going to select you that may

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or may not be a good fit.

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So starting with friends and family, even after graduation, following your friends and where

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they're going and seeing looking at their network and you're asking to share that network,

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it's really right there in front of you.

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You just have to ask and don't rely so much on actually the social network online and

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so forth.

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You really make a phone call, do an email, try to do a one on one and tell people what

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you're looking for and how they could help you.

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Again filling out applications.

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Not a bad thing, but again, you're competing against so many when you have a warm introduction

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saying, Michael, I have a friend who has a position open.

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I'm going to connect you with him, whether it's a phone call, email or text is going

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to go a long way.

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And that goes to our business.

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It's about relationships.

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Starting new relationships is like starting a new friendship.

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It's not easy.

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You have to have the same legs or the same mind of what the target audience is as far

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as selling and understanding that audience.

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So having a warm introduction is really the best networking advice I could give.

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And that's really how I've worked my whole career.

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Not only with the corporate, but when I had my own agency, Atomik Wash, it was through

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referrals, we were referral based.

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We did try the social media.

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My partner was kind of into that and we spent money, but our best success was me pounding

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the pavement, calling your friends that moved to new businesses and had a new position and

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say, all right, I'm going to give you two months and I want to knock on that door and

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just get an introduction.

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One of the biggest successes was just doing a quick presentation of a PowerPoint.

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Now this wasn't an ordinary PowerPoint.

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It was a video PowerPoint with a storyline and voiceover.

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And it was kind of wowed the audience.

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And when they started talking about how we could do this within our agency, you know

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you have them one.

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And that one presentation led to millions of dollars worth of business in a five year

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relationship until they got acquired.

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So you don't always have to have the biggest agency.

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You just have to have really good content and really smart presentations that tell your

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story succinctly.

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Yeah, you would have to get to the know, like and trust, right?

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You know, to know you to like you and to trust you.

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But that trust factor is like the biggest factor because everybody knows you.

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Listen, they love you.

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You're a nice guy.

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Right.

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Now, do they like you?

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Well, then you're kind of, you know, fit with a little bit, but trust you.

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That's the number one thing.

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So when you're making that presentation and you're getting to them and all of a sudden

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they know you, they like you and all of a sudden trust you, you can do wonders.

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Exactly.

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And you really start off just as for a small project.

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It doesn't have to be a hundred thousand dollar project or a ten thousand dollar project.

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The first project that we did for that million dollar client was $2,500.

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And we proved it ourselves.

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We got it on time and they loved it.

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And they gave us a few more than we got to a presentation, a PowerPoint presentation.

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Then we got to trade shows.

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Then we got to social media and then we got to branding.

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So really the way we built trust was building success.

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And it's really success for the client.

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I'll tell you a story where I started in the production, worked my way up to VP of creative

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services.

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I had 14, over the 13 years, I had 14 bosses.

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So every time I'd have a new boss, I'd have a meeting and I'm saying here, I'm here to

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make you, that's what my job is.

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This is what I did for your predecessor.

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And we were making success.

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Unfortunately, he made some other mistakes, not in marketing, but was replaced or moved

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on in the company.

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But I could do that for you.

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And that was my pitch.

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And every time I did that, I would go on and build success with that executive.

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And that's kind of how we just built success.

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Let us prove ourselves by showing you what we could do and how we never fail.

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That's one of the things that we said, we never fail.

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If it takes us 10 times to reach that goal and the expectation that you have, the price

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is not going to go up.

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We're going to get there because if we missed it, if we failed, that's on us.

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It's not always on you.

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Now, a lot of times, the clients didn't know what they want and they would give us misdirection,

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but we would evolve it fairly quickly.

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And you kind of learn that, all right, this one made what I would call, this is a marketing

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project, so we didn't make any money on it.

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But we proved that we could take something that's really difficult, that they couldn't

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articulate and build success and have something that they could show to their executives and

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superiors and be proud of.

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And that's what we did.

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And then the ROI would be better.

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So it was really, again, collaboration and coordination with our clients and with our

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staff, the dedication of working late, working weekend sometimes, just an agency life, and

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the highs and lows are really busy.

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And then sometimes we'd have a gap, but Chris and I built a business and our practice was

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to have enough money in the bank to support all payroll and all expenses for a year.

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It took us about three years to build that.

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So we were confident that even in a low, we could support our staff.

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We had a staff of 10 at the highest point, and we could support them for a year.

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Of course, knowing we would get more business, we were confident we could do that, but we

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never wanted to lay anyone off.

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We all were in that position, and we were not going to do that.

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And we did not do that.

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And then we got acquired by a business and sold and then worked for another five years

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for that corporation.

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So let me ask you a question.

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So you've told me all sorts of networking and marketing ideas, how you made it and everything

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else.

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Tell me, what's your favorite marketing tactic?

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You know what?

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Getting someone out to lunch or dinner kind of breaks the barriers.

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For me, it's always around food.

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Take a minute to dinner.

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Exactly.

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You know, have drinks, have coffee.

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It just takes it out of the office and you can have a conversation.

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You can talk a little about families and get a little more history about them.

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Get some of their true pain points and how we could provide solutions to those pain points.

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And that's what our job is.

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We're there to help them.

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That's the number one thing.

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Everybody's got a problem.

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Every business, everybody.

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And what you have to do is you have to find a solution to that problem.

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And if you do that reasonably priced, you're going to make it.

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Yes.

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You know?

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So it'll have everything.

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I'm trying to close this up here a little bit and give me your number one takeaway that

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my audience can start doing tomorrow if they want to start networking.

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That's a big question, by the way, Chris.

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I would recommend doing a few different things.

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You know, social media, as far as your social media, your friends and group of family is

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a good place to start.

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You can always tell people that, hey, I'm looking for a job or I'm looking for a project.

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This is my skill set.

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Just get me introduction.

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That's really, again, I'm going to really harp on that.

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The other one, I would recommend, depending on where you are, now I'm coming from a creative

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aspect, right?

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I would get a headhunter if you're looking for a higher level position because they really

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could actually position you for a project as freelance headhunters or a full-time position.

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They really help and I've had great success actually hiring from them over the past 30

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years.

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And it's a great way to expand your network that you would never be able to get to.

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So they're getting you that warm introduction, saying, I have a perfect person for your firm

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and they have this skill set and keep your resume current and to the point because that's

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what people want to see.

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They want to see what you can do, how you could think.

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And I was always looking for thinkers, by the way.

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That was my main thing when I was hiring people.

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I could always train someone to work on a platform, but I can't train them to think.

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So if you can think and show them that you could think, you will be hired because that's

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what they want.

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And that's how I'm working as problem solving.

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And if I get someone to solve a problem, I could sell that, whether it's design, whether

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it's a trade show, whether it's promoting a new product or how to promote a new product.

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If I get someone to offer a unique view on how to sell that, that's a winning networking

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proposition.

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So when you speak to people, you just can't say all the successes I had.

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You tell them how you did the success.

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It's like a case study of yourself.

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That's going to help people how you came up with it.

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And by the way, show them the sketch that you started.

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If you started on a napkin, great idea.

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I do that all the time.

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We even go back sometimes and say, because we sketch on the whiteboard and then we don't

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take a picture, we say, we shouldn't have taken a picture.

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So if you did it from a sketch, just show them.

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This is where I started.

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And here's the end result, whether it's a paper, whether it's a magazine ad, whether

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it's a video, whether it's social media.

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Show them how you developed that kernel of an idea and actually expanded it to actually

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promote a product or service the client was asking for.

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And people like that.

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That's what I look for when I'm hiring.

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So you can show me the process.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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And that's what I was looking for also when I was hiring.

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I would also look for the same thing because I can teach them how to use a piece of equipment

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or how to do anything else, but you can't teach them to think.

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Right.

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So Jamie Lim is your question.

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If somebody was interested in Jamie Kazman, how could they get in touch with you?

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They could email me at Jamie Kazman at gmail.com.

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That was good.

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That was good.

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Are you able to get that?

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Yeah.

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Jamie, J-A-M-I-E-K-A-S-M-A-N at gmail.com.

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And I'll get back to them.

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And even if they're just asking for advice, anyone in your audience needs help, feel free

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to email.

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And I will get back to them right away.

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Right.

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Jamie, I want to thank you.

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You are a wonderful guest.

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And I look forward to talking to you again.

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Thank you, Michael.

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Okay.

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Bye-bye.

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Oh, my God.

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This has been another episode of Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable Connections.

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First of all, to all my brethren, to all the veterans of these United States, thank you

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for your service.

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Second, if you'd like to offer me a call, I always give to Tunnel.org.

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That's t2t.org.

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Thank you.