Hello and welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable Connections.
I'm Michael Foreman.
I am hosting and I just want to tell you personal.
Okay, so we're going to delve into both of those, but I have an incredible guest.
His name is Frank Agin, and let me just tell you a little bit about him.
The science of networking, big misses in networking, referral best practices.
Frank Agin is president of Amspirit Business Connections, which empowers entrepreneurs,
health representatives, and professionals to become successful and get more referrals
through networking.
He also shares information and insights on professional relationships, business networking,
and best practices for generating referrals on his networking Rx podcast through various
professional programs.
Finally, Frank is the author of several books, including foundational networking.
Seal of his books through frankagin.com.
So I just want to tell you, I want to welcome you, Frank.
And I just, just tell us a little bit about yourself.
Well, thank you for having me on Networking Unleashed.
I really appreciate, appreciate the opportunity.
I live in Columbus, Ohio.
I came here 40 years ago to go to law school.
I really had an intention on staying, but I got a law degree, got an MBA, met a girl,
and started a job in public accounting.
I was a tax consultant, which was a great job.
It was great pay, just a great experience all in all.
Michael, I didn't want to do taxes for the rest of my life.
And most people understand that.
I'll run into a chair where it's like, oh, why not?
I didn't want to do it for the rest of my life.
And so I decided to leave and go into private practice because I've always been very entrepreneurial.
And a funny thing happened to me when I went into private practice, and the funny thing
was that nothing happened.
I had no idea how to get clients.
They don't teach you that in school, high school, college, law school.
They don't teach you that in the big firms because the work is already there.
We just need you to come in as many days a week and stay as long as you can and just
work.
And so I'm out on my own trying to figure out how to make it happen.
Most states have ethical requirements for attorneys and one of them, and certainly in
the state of Ohio.
I think most states have this.
These really aren't supposed to call people.
We're not allowed a cold call.
Advertising is very restricted.
And so I'm like, how am I going to get business?
This is the mid 90s.
There's no LinkedIn.
There's no email.
There's no websites.
I don't even think I had a cell phone, Michael.
I really don't.
And so I was beside myself.
What am I supposed to do?
So I had lunch one day with a friend of mine and she took a different path out of law school.
There's a saying in law school that A students become professors, B students become judges,
and C students become millionaires.
And that's because if you're a C student, you don't get the cushy opportunities, you
got to figure it out.
And that's what she did is she figured it out right from the start.
But I asked her, I said, what do I need to do to become successful?
And she said, why don't you get into a tips club or a leads group?
I really had no idea what she was talking about, but there was an organization based
out of Pittsburgh that was starting these networking groups, if you will.
And through a couple of introductions, I got invited to a meeting.
They didn't have an attorney.
They were really changed everything, to be honest.
I showed up and it made total sense that you could lift your whole world up, just helping
other people.
That's what you and I, that's what the whole essence of networking unleashed is, right?
Your whole, everything you do is all about this, you know what, this mentality of just
helping people and just trusting it's going to come back to you.
And that's what these groups are about.
And that really resonated with me because I'm good at talking about other people and
talking other people up.
If I start to talk about myself and self promote, I just, I lose steam right away.
So I really doubled down on being successful in that group and I'll make a long story short.
I had an opportunity to buy it at one point in the early 2000s and I did.
I enjoyed practicing law, but I could build something here.
I could, I could, the law is always changing.
Law schools are always pooping out attorneys every year, right?
What you and I do is really unique.
It's really unique and you could really learn a craft and be unique.
And so I stopped the practice of law.
I started, I rebranded the business that I bought to Amspirit Business Connections.
Started writing books, really becoming a student of networking.
Why is it, why do some people, why are some people successful and other people not?
That person there is really outgoing, but they're still living with mom, right?
That doesn't make any sense.
And that person's a total introvert and he's crushing it.
It doesn't make any sense.
You and I know the answers, right?
There are answers.
And so I just really started to lean in and learn these things.
And then that led into me having a podcast, which I, that's how you and I met, got you
on and lots of other things, all things networking.
That's great.
That's great information.
The thing I've learned personally is when I go to a networking event or a networking
meeting or something, I look to give, not receive.
I look to give, I look to, I say to the person, you know what, I like you.
I like what you do, how you do business.
How can I make you more successful?
How can I be a good referral source for you?
And if I do that enough, well, you said what goes around comes around.
So it definitely comes around.
So with all that being said, what was one experience that drove you to open up your
networking career?
What was that one thing?
I'll be honest.
When I had an opportunity to buy this, I would go from attorney to doing this.
And I remember having a conversation with my wife and saying, you know what, if I continue
being an attorney 30 years from now, I know what I'll be doing.
You know, I've seen the old codgers going into the law library.
They don't have a law, they sure they still have law libraries, but much of it's online
anymore.
Yeah, I've seen it.
I know the end of the story.
But if I do this, it's something very unique.
And so I really embarked upon it as a business opportunity.
Like, this is something unique.
This is something I can do.
This is something I can build.
But what really fascinated me about the whole networking thing is that it touches every
aspect of life.
I have friends of my kids who, you know, they're adults now who are graduating and needing
to get jobs or have jobs and losing jobs and trying to find a next job.
And I don't get paid for this, but I can lean into helping those people.
And it's really applying the same sorts of principles to helping a small business person
get business.
It's, okay, this is what you need to do to find a job.
It's just networking.
It's just that you that we're never really taught, but we all have, we just don't know
how to deploy them in the right way.
And if you do, it's really powerful.
So that was really neat for me.
It's true.
And those personal skills, listen, like anything else, you have to practice, practice, practice,
practice.
And the more you practice, the better you get, the more networking meetings you go to,
the better you get, you know, but in your travels, in your experience, what's your number
one challenge?
What really challenged you throughout your career?
I think this is something that challenges everybody.
Is this ever going to come back to me?
Yeah.
Right?
Because it is a real leap of faith.
You go work for a company, you work all week, and there's a paycheck at the end of the week.
Maybe it's two weeks, but it's the same thing.
I'm working, I'm going to get paid.
The government's going to step in and help me if I don't get paid or society.
There's this faith that the turnaround between what you're doing and what you're getting
happens quickly.
And with respect to networking, as you well know, that that's not always the case.
Sometimes it's pretty immediate.
And you and I have just met, when I say just met in the last three months, you've been
on my podcast, I've been on your podcast, and that's relatively immediate.
And thank you for having me on.
This is truly an honor, but it's also an asset for me because I'm out there on another platform.
So it is a gift.
And so there is a somewhat of an immediate return there.
So sometimes it's relatively immediate.
Sometimes it might be years where somebody will come back and say, you know what, I heard
you 10 years ago talk and I need help now.
Or even with respect to friends of my kids, I run this networking organization and I have
these kids, they're not kids, they're grown adults with spouses and houses and mortgage
payments coming into the organization and being clients of my organization.
And it's literally been decades in the making.
Hey, you need to go and get in Mr. Reagan's program.
So that's the biggest challenge has been just having the faith that things will come back
to you and you might not even recognize that it's come back to you, but it's coming back
to you.
Yeah.
Whenever you go into a networking event or meetings, that's what I've been saying all
along, really people lost sight of what they have to do and they lost sight of how they're
supposed to do it.
You know, this is going to sound very sexist.
I apologize to everybody who's listening, but usually it's the woman that walks in and
starts talking a mile a minute.
And you know, everybody's like, whoa, you know, stop, you know, what you have to remember
to do is when you first, let's say, walk up to a table, you don't talk, you listen, you
listen for the conversation, you listen to what is this a conversation that I want to
be a part of?
Then right.
Well, or no, it's not you politely back out, you go to another table.
But if it is, you wait for the opportunity for you to say something.
Now you've gone somewhere and you are supposedly the expert in your field.
So what you say, I really hope is something intelligent where at least one or two of the
people will turn around and respond back to you.
And that gives you the, opens up your opportunity to ask them what they do, how they do it and
everything else.
And remember form.
I don't know if you remember on our podcast, but form is family, occupation, recreation,
and a message you get to the same level.
Keep all that in mind and you let them talk, speak.
And after a while, you say, no, that's when you come back with the, I'd like what you're
doing, I'd like you, how can I make you more successful?
And before you realize it, they're giving you all their information.
And the best thing to do is to find a referral for them.
Best thing to do.
Yeah.
And it's really human nature.
Share a story.
This has happened a few months ago, but I retold it this morning, introducing two people.
I had met a woman down in Jacksonville, Florida, and it was very impressed with what she did
with AI.
I reached out to her and I said, Hey, would you please show me how I could be using AI
to do the things you're doing for your clients?
And I'm happy to pay you.
She said, don't worry about paying me.
You don't need to worry about paying me.
I'll give you an hour of my time.
You're out there doing this stuff and let's only an hour of my time and you're smart enough
to figure this stuff out.
If you need help beyond that, sure.
Just let's just sit and talk about it.
And I spent an hour with her and I was just blown away by the things she was showing
me.
And at the same time, we're talking.
I'm certainly listening to what she's saying and taking notes, but just intermittently,
it's okay.
Who do I know that could use this person?
Who do I know that I can introduce this person to?
When it's just, these are things that are just barking in the background in my head.
We are hardwired.
She gave me an hour of her time.
We are hardwired to reciprocate.
And so when we do these things, good things are going to come back to us.
Absolutely.
And I know being in business, it really doesn't matter what business you're in, but your referral,
your referral is gold.
It does nothing better than a personal referral.
So what does that tell you?
That you have to do right by whomever that you're helping and give them more and under
pay.
And so it's just, you give them more than what they're paying for.
And they should be so elated that you're helping them in such a way that they can't do anything,
but refer you.
And that referral say, oh, you know, so and so referred me and called you, oh, I love
her, you know, because they, because you're putting their name on the line as well on
how you treat them.
Yeah.
I think a lot of times people run into, they have this hang up that if I do something for
someone else, I am going to be depleted.
I'm out something.
And what I share with people, I always have to preface, okay, I'm not being, I'm not getting
crazy here.
Just follow my logic.
I say, I tell them, I don't like coconut.
I just don't.
From as being a young as a kid, I just didn't like coconut.
It's, I have a gag reflex.
If I have coconuts, but if you hand me an almond joy bar, that's all coconut.
Even though I will not eat that.
I will not.
I'll probably die before I eat it.
I will take it because I know there are people in my life that love coconut and could benefit
from coconut.
And so I'm going to take, I'm going to collect all the almond joy bars out there and give
them to the people I knew who love almond joy bars.
It's certainly not depleting me because I've already said, I don't like coconut.
And the reason I'm doing that is because I'm giving these almond joy bars out and hopefully
they're asking what kind of candy do you like, Frank?
Because I'll keep a look out for you because they're so thankful that I've given them
their favorite candy.
And I look at that same thing with respect to other opportunities.
A lot of things come my way that don't really fit for me.
Somebody might have a fitness podcast.
That's not for me, but it's for somebody I know.
And so I'm going to take that in that I'm in joy bar and I'm going to hand it out to
somebody else.
And what are they going to say?
What kind of podcast are you looking to get on?
I'm looking to get on ones that deal with professional relationships, business networking,
referral best practices.
Oh, okay.
I'll keep a look out for you.
And it's the same thing with respect to other opportunities too.
We're all encountering things and people, somebody looking to hire a, somebody to work
in their I.T.
department, but I'm in marketing.
That's an opportunity.
What type of person are you looking for?
Entry level, how many years?
I don't know if I know somebody, but I know people and maybe I can help you.
And so you're not depleted at all by doing those sorts of things.
You're not because even though, you know, I go on stages and I do breakout sessions and
workshops and people ask me all the time, whatever I give them an hour of my time, you're
giving me all of your information.
There's nothing left.
You know, what else could you possibly show me?
Well, there's an infinite amount of things that you can still learn.
Yeah.
But, you know, on my, on my website, I have my book, but right next to it, I have a little
thing called an abridged version and that's free.
It's a PDF and it gives you to the basics of my book and everything out, but it's free.
People say, well, why are you doing that?
Because whoever downloads it, obviously needs it.
You know?
But what goes around comes around.
I feel that if you give out as much as you can, it will come back.
Yeah.
It's like you have books and people say, what's the best way to sell a book?
I say, give it away for free.
I'm saying just get out there and just tweet little tidbits of it out there.
Right?
That's what I've done.
Here's this little reference to show the book, maybe a link to the book.
That's how I'll buy books.
Right?
I'll look at, oh, that really sounds interesting.
Perfect.
I'm going to buy that book.
And I joke and I say, if somebody was really enterprising enough, they could scour my LinkedIn
and my social channels and they could find the entire book, little bits and pieces and
plug it all together.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Because you are giving away enough for somebody to really put together if they want to take
the time to put it all together.
But you might as well just go out and buy the book.
That's what people end up doing.
What one marketing or networking tip that you feel the most strongly about?
That's a great question and I have a consistent answer.
Find something that you're passionate about and go volunteer.
I need to get out.
I need to network.
I need to do something.
I don't know where to do.
You should go find something.
Don't be calculating these big people are here or whatever.
If it's pet charities, then head in that direction homelessness, maybe it's youth sports, just
get out there and give to the world.
You don't have to wear a t-shirt that has your business name on it.
You'd probably better off not doing that.
Don't be calculating like that.
People will find out.
I see it all the time.
What do you do?
You run for an insurance agent.
Yeah.
Well, you have to remember that you're not just speaking with the people that are there,
speaking with their entire network, each individual people.
I always recommend exactly what you just said.
I always recommend just go and do.
When you start doing and you start giving, the conversation is going to turn around to
say, what do you do for a living?
That's when you can say, well, I do this or I do that.
People say, oh, that's very interesting or that's all right, but it will advance you
not only personally, but it will advance you professionally as well as long as you learn
how to communicate with them.
When you're doing those things, you're not doing them alone.
You're doing them with other people who care about the same, whatever it is, charity or
initiative, and they'll ask about you and you'll develop a relationship with them.
Something's going to happen from that, but that gets you off of the dime, so to speak,
and just doing something.
Yeah.
It's true.
That falls into the category of giving or receiving.
When you're there, you're going to give, give, give until somebody turns around and says,
what do you do?
Something like that.
That is great for your networking tactic.
Do you have a specific way that you market, a marketing tactic?
I know you run networking groups.
You actually have a separate networking next week, I think at four o'clock or so.
I have a couple of things that I do.
Again, it goes back to the whole notion of the best way to sell something is to give
it away for free.
In the early days of the pandemic, we were all a little bit, what does this mean?
What does this mean for the world?
We're all a little bit lonely and I discovered that you could use Zoom for something more
than talking to one person at a time.
I invited 12 people onto a Zoom call and we just had a conversation.
I said, I know none of you, people know each other.
You're all very well connected.
We each other, let's all talk about ourselves one by one.
That was born the networking hub, which is the second Wednesday of every month.
It's 7 p.m. Eastern.
You can get the link to it.
It's free to attend.
There's no commitment.
Networking-hub.com.
Then I've also started doing a referrals strategy workshop at 4 o'clock on that same day.
What I'll do on the workshop is I will bring up just... The workshop is more about hands-on
sorts of things with respect to referrals.
The next one, I'm going to be talking about the whole notion of what I call wholesale
referrals.
Basically, looking for people that will lead you to multiple referrals.
I'll talk on that briefly and then put people in breakout rooms and they can have a conversation
around that concept.
Again, free to attend.
It's interesting.
I see the people who are registering and certainly people from my organization, lots of people
not from my organization.
It's going to be a great opportunity.
Sprinting the good word about networking.
I love it.
Frank, if somebody wants to get hold of you, what's the best way that they can hold of
you?
Everybody communicates in their own style.
Some people love LinkedIn.
If you go to frankagan.com, you can find my email address.
You can get to my LinkedIn profile, my Facebook and communicate any of those ways.
However, works best for you.
For me, email is the best.
It's just easy for me to catalog and color code and put reminders and things like that.
That's just me.
Frank, I have to tell you, this was a great, great experience.
Everybody wanted to know about networking or referrals or anything else, please contact
Frank and he will set you free, so to speak.
I personally will be sitting along that networking event, both at four o'clock and seven o'clock
because I'm very interested in networking because you haven't realized that yet.
I want to thank you and good luck with everything.
Thank you.
Appreciate the opportunity.
Thank you.