1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,240
You know that you've been invited into that room for a reason, so just show up and be

2
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:07,640
your authentic self.

3
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,840
You're only going to do great science if you're really happy and if it fits in your life.

4
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,800
It's also good to learn from the other people that you're working with.

5
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:20,320
In the long run it's very satisfying, but it is an uphill battle and the only thing

6
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,200
that sort of keeps you going is the mentors and allies and friends and collaborators that

7
00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:34,680
you meet along the way.

8
00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:39,120
What's your advice to a young graduate student charting a path for themselves?

9
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,480
Be honest to yourself and know whether you really love what you're doing.

10
00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:49,240
Nothing good comes out of doing something for an outcome, for the PhD, for the MD, for

11
00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,600
this or that.

12
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:58,560
If you love the doing of it, the process, it will never feel hard, even if that reward

13
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:05,100
at the end gets to be a moving target, which usually it is.

14
00:01:05,100 --> 00:01:11,040
If you love the doing of it, if you walk into your lab or to your office and you sit down

15
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,400
thinking something good is going to happen today or I have to get through this so that

16
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,520
I can do something else that I'm really looking forward to.

17
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,640
If you are honest to yourself and you don't force yourself to do something because you

18
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:30,320
or somebody else has an expectation of you to behave or perform or do something else,

19
00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:34,600
you're going to be happy and it will come with a lot of good things.

20
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,960
I got advice from an old mentor long ago who said if you're really interested in something

21
00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:42,040
like neuroscience, you should do something outside of neuroscience to see if you like

22
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,240
it, right?

23
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,240
So I did that.

24
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,360
In orthopedics, it was unusual, I was like, oh, you know, I would be interested in the

25
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,360
bone, you know, I'll do orthopedics.

26
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,680
And it actually turned out to work out really well.

27
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,280
When maybe you and I were coming up through the system, you became an expert in a very

28
00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:03,760
specific domain and that today we really try, you really have to start to work across disciplines.

29
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,040
Yeah, it's harder for sure.

30
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:14,060
And in neuroscience now in particular, because what you could possibly do with the range

31
00:02:14,060 --> 00:02:19,680
of tools that has emerged, the expectation for a high profile paper is that it's going

32
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,560
to have a little bit of everything.

33
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:22,760
And how could you do all that?

34
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:28,880
So I think it becomes more important to work as a team and to have different people in

35
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:35,520
the group that you see more co-first author or even three co-all gave the same amount

36
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,880
of effort to the paper going on.

37
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,880
But it's also good to learn from the other people that you're working with.

38
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,300
The thing I try to do is just always like, know your stuff, you know, like bring some

39
00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:52,640
scholarship along, but just look at it with really open eyes, you know, curiosity, look

40
00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:56,480
at it for what's out there, you know, is this question everything.

41
00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:01,560
So I think, you know, I don't, it doesn't always work, but it kind of helps you getting,

42
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,240
you know, stuck in like, you know, fashion corners of the field.

43
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,240
Yeah, absolutely.

44
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,320
So and then projecting out, like if you were giving some advice to the younger, obviously

45
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,320
you do this all the time with your graduate students and trainees and that, you know,

46
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:16,600
what do you say to them about that?

47
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:22,920
Like getting on stock or framing out the questions in a way that will make them meaningful and

48
00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:23,920
important?

49
00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:30,020
Yeah, I sometimes feel for people in my lab because, you know, I really push them hard

50
00:03:30,020 --> 00:03:36,960
to make their own decisions and really to think like, is this really interesting to

51
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:37,960
you?

52
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:38,960
Do you care about this?

53
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,240
Do you, you know, what do you think is going to, you know, how is this going to change

54
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,480
the way you think about things?

55
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,040
Is this going to change our understanding?

56
00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:50,680
I really try to operate at that very basic low level where I think things are really

57
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:51,680
important.

58
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:59,520
So I really try and I think, you know, there are many ways to be a successful mentor, but

59
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:09,260
sort of my approach is really to try to help each individual find meaning and joy and their

60
00:04:09,260 --> 00:04:13,520
own, you know, pathway of the balance of productivity for themselves.

61
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,440
So I try not, you know, I'm not one of those things like everyone has to do this every

62
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:24,080
month and here we do, you know, it's all very more organic, kind of intense and organic.

63
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,800
Working on personhood as well as just like, you know, this is a great project.

64
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,560
And not just the person as a scientist, but the whole person, you know, like, I mean,

65
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,800
I think you're only going to do great science if you're really happy and if it fits in your

66
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:36,800
life.

67
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,800
You've had a, you know, an extraordinary career.

68
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:45,200
I mean, you really, really have and, you know, looking back on the things that happened and

69
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:53,040
the people that you met, has it given you a sense for the path to success?

70
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:58,600
And, you know, if you were to take that and turn it into advice for a youngster today,

71
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,400
you have some pearls of wisdom.

72
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,440
We always ask this question.

73
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:03,440
Yes.

74
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:11,640
Well, the world is changing dramatically, so I feel like I'm a bit dated already.

75
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,080
Serendipity has been a big part of this.

76
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:22,920
I started my lab out of graduate school from UCSF, went back to Japan.

77
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:30,400
It was not something that I had imagined doing, but they were launching a new institute, the

78
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,960
Riken Brain Science Institute.

79
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:39,320
And the goal was to create something more Western, not the traditional hierarchical

80
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,240
system of Japanese university.

81
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,440
And I thought, well, who am I?

82
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:50,080
I'm just starting out, you know, and I had a lot of interesting ideas, I thought, for

83
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,960
the research, but was just untested.

84
00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:01,800
But I felt that I could bring the kind of Western infrastructure or ecosystem to a new

85
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,360
institution.

86
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:11,680
And in that way, felt like I could contribute right away in addition to eventually science.

87
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,120
That was a very, very lucky break.

88
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:21,520
I was, of course, anxious about doing that, but excited at the same time.

89
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,320
It was an institution that had no tenure.

90
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,200
It was on a five-year review cycle.

91
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,480
And the challenge was there.

92
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,400
The moving far from the familiar.

93
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,680
But chances come around very rarely.

94
00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:46,920
And so I think my advice would be if a young person had an opportunity, they shouldn't

95
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:47,920
be afraid.

96
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:48,920
Yeah.

97
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:49,920
Seize the day.

98
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:50,920
Seize the day.

99
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:51,920
Right.

100
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,560
For youngsters up and coming, you know, you've traveled a certain path, you know, from an

101
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,560
immigrant family, other humanities, and so on.

102
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,760
When you turn around and you talk to your graduate students or even if you're out in

103
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,960
the school system, what do you say to youngsters?

104
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,920
What do you say about, you know, do you have some nuggets tips for life?

105
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:10,920
For life?

106
00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:11,920
Oh, wow.

107
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,040
Or the academy.

108
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:19,440
It's interesting because I was not by any means a traditional success story.

109
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,600
I think it took a long time for me to get off the ground.

110
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,440
I mean, in terms of, you know, I was a postdoc for something like seven years, which may

111
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:32,880
be more typical nowadays, just a larger commentary on academia in general.

112
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,040
But you know, I didn't think that I would succeed in this career path.

113
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,400
There was no indication I would for many, many years.

114
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:39,400
I struggled.

115
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:44,400
I didn't get my first faculty position until, you know, about 10 years ago.

116
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,560
It's a lot of investment that you put in, not sort of knowing what will come out the

117
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:48,560
other end.

118
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,920
But, you know, and people will give you all kinds of advice, but it's kind of the survivorship

119
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:53,920
bias.

120
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,640
And that's for me, that doesn't necessarily mean it'll work for anybody else.

121
00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:04,400
But one thing that I found that I couldn't move away from was this kind of like, I have

122
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:09,160
a unique perspective and I'm just going to keep doing the thing that I think needs to

123
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,960
be done, whether it's looking at spontaneous brain activity when nobody else cared about

124
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:18,000
that or, you know, whether it's looking at certain populations using certain approaches.

125
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,640
I have a unique perspective and I'm going to be here and I'm going to bring that perspective

126
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,440
to academia, whether they want it or not.

127
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:31,200
It turns out eventually they do want it because, you know, sometimes if you're not from the

128
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,000
majority group, you don't see anyone else that looks like you.

129
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,720
You think, well, I'm the odd one out.

130
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:36,960
I must be wrong.

131
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,320
But the truth is, you know, that as we've talked about, you know, the diversity is what

132
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,400
like drives the innovation in science.

133
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:48,520
And so when you, you know, you stick it out, you stick to your, you know, try to bring

134
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:54,720
people along, I guess, to your perspectives, in the long run, it's very satisfying, but

135
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,040
it is a uphill battle.

136
00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,480
And the only thing that sort of keeps you going is the mentors and allies and friends

137
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,760
and collaborators that you meet along the way who support you in that path.

138
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,800
So there's the both sort of don't lose your hope, even though it sometimes looks bleak,

139
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,480
but also like rely on those friends and connections and collaborations because that's what makes

140
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,680
it all possible and worthwhile.

141
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:21,880
A lot of our PhD graduates now, choosing not the academic route, choosing to walk away

142
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,320
from the research enterprise.

143
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:30,480
And of course, there's a big sucking sound as the big data firms, the Googles, the Facebooks,

144
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,200
take the PhD students that would formerly have gone down that route into their more

145
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,400
corporate world.

146
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,440
Are you worried about that?

147
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:43,360
And what would you say to a youngster looking at that fork in the road and saying, you know,

148
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:48,160
I could go over into this corporate world and make a lot of money, let's face it, or

149
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,200
should I stay in the academic track?

150
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,960
Is there something that we should be saying to somebody to say, look, you know, stay the

151
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,440
course, it's worthwhile.

152
00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,720
Academic research, you know, is fantastic.

153
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,400
Who can have a better job than what we do, right?

154
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:05,680
I mean, we wake up every morning and our goal is to just to come and think about, you know,

155
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:07,680
what are the next questions we want to.

156
00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:09,560
So there's no other job that offers you this.

157
00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:15,360
So that's one, so I think personally what I feel is that what I tell students is that

158
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,480
if you have the, if you feel that this is something critical for you and you have this

159
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,560
drive inside yourself, you don't have, you know, to come and then, oh, what do I do today?

160
00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:25,560
I don't know where I'm going.

161
00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:30,480
So if you come, you know, every day and you get to the lab and you get, and you have this,

162
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,400
all this thing driving you, that means that you have something inside you that is, you

163
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,000
know, that is done for science, right?

164
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,320
That's one thing where you should, because you need to have that.

165
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,840
If you don't have that, probably you're not at the right place because you need that because

166
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,720
it's, we know, we know what the cons are, right?

167
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:45,720
It's competitive.

168
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,280
There is a lot of people, there is a lot of very, a lot of ton of people who would want

169
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,960
to go after the same, you know, funding that you will be doing, but there is place for

170
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,400
you if you have that.

171
00:10:55,400 --> 00:11:00,800
And then of course, after that, you know, you need to take this and take advantage of

172
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:01,800
that.

173
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,560
Take your career, you need to take your career in your hands and move in forward.

174
00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:11,080
You know, you need to take the lead on your career and go with it positively and find

175
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:16,400
with it, surround yourself with a good team of people, taking advantage of the resources

176
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,880
that your graduate program offers you, taking, making a network, you know, talking with people.

177
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,320
You need to develop network.

178
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,200
So you need a lot of things that you need to, yourself, to take care of.

179
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,920
But if you do that, people will be pleased, you know, and excited to give you and train

180
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,760
you and help you advancing that.

181
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,980
But you need to take the lead on your own career and you need to have this motivation.

182
00:11:38,980 --> 00:11:44,120
If you have that, there's no reason why you should not, you know, you should not succeed.

183
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,800
There is place for you in research.

184
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,720
I mean, that would be my thing.

185
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,160
Have you picked up a specific mentoring style yourself?

186
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:55,240
Is there something that you bring or that you'd say this is a key component?

187
00:11:55,240 --> 00:12:01,840
I think, you know, thus far in my experience, you know, so I've been at Yale for 14 years

188
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,040
or so.

189
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,680
Every student is different, right?

190
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:11,040
You know, and I don't, I think if I have a mentoring style, it might be mostly centered

191
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:18,400
around being very patient, you know, very, trying to be very, very tolerant of the differences

192
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:24,560
between other people, how their styles might, might interact with others in the lab group

193
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:26,000
or with me.

194
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:31,960
You know, I, I try not to impose too many of my own, the expectations I had for myself,

195
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,520
I try not to impose them on my students because their style and their, their learning style

196
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,880
might be different from mine or their goals in life might be different from mine.

197
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,560
So yeah, I love that answer.

198
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,320
And I often get asked the same thing.

199
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,900
And I say like, you know, people in the lab are just human beings, like the human beings

200
00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:54,560
in your world, in your life, and they come in all shapes and sizes and you have to figure

201
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:55,960
out a way to fit around that.

202
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,320
Yeah, everybody has a real life too.

203
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:04,240
You know, it isn't, it isn't science 100% of the time, although sometimes it is, like,

204
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,400
I have trouble turning off the science in my head.

205
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:15,240
But you know, people come to the lab and they have had a bad day or they have, you know,

206
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,960
a family crisis or, you know, or something else is more important that day than, you

207
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:20,960
know, this one experiment.

208
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,440
And you know, that's, that's a real thing.

209
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,760
It's not just science, it's also everybody's real life too.

210
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:32,720
You've had an amazing life really, you know, you've reached the absolute pinnacle of the

211
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,200
Academy from a small town in Virginia.

212
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:42,720
When you talk to your graduate students or youngsters in the schools, and they say like,

213
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,080
you know, what do I, how do I do it?

214
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,160
How do I, how do I do what Brian Boyd did?

215
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,360
Do you have, do you have some pearls of wisdom for them?

216
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,360
Yeah, yeah, I guess two pieces of advice.

217
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,720
For me, and I think for other people in the field that I've interacted with as well, I

218
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,760
think, you know, mentors are really important.

219
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,800
You know, find your supportive mentoring network.

220
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,360
And sometimes you need mentors for different reasons.

221
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,400
Sometimes it's not just about the science.

222
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,180
Sometimes it's just about navigating academia.

223
00:14:13,180 --> 00:14:19,280
When I was in my doctoral program, one of my mentors was a Latina woman.

224
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,200
And I talked to her about what it's like being a minority in the Academy.

225
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,040
And those are the conversations we had.

226
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,840
But they were really important for my career.

227
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,360
So find your mentoring network, that support.

228
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:39,160
The other I would say to people, and I often hear this from students who are from marginalized

229
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,760
backgrounds, this whole concept of imposter syndrome.

230
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,280
And I feel like an imposter.

231
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,600
And I would say that, again, most people I've talked to in the Academy, at some point in

232
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,340
their career, felt like an imposter.

233
00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:59,400
So know that you've been invited into that room for a reason.

234
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,240
So just show up and be your authentic self.

235
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,520
So those are my two pieces of advice.

236
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:09,840
As somebody who's really had a fantastic career, what's that one pearl of wisdom?

237
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:11,240
What do you say to them?

238
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,680
What's going to get them through?

239
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,160
Yeah.

240
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,920
So single pearls are always a problem for me.

241
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:18,920
We have one minute.

242
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:19,920
You can do five.

243
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:29,480
And I think one might be to identify not a problem right this moment that you want to

244
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:40,780
attack that's important, but what would give your entire career in its inevitable arc meaning

245
00:15:40,780 --> 00:15:50,520
and importance so that if you got there, you would have felt fulfilled.

246
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:58,400
And to some of us, that has some sort of highfalutin kinds of words like changing the world or

247
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,020
discovering things that will help large classes.

248
00:16:03,020 --> 00:16:11,600
To some people, it might be equally important, but to answer this question that's always

249
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:21,240
been unknown, and if you have that, I think the complexities of life become just steps

250
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,380
toward that fascinating goal.

251
00:16:24,380 --> 00:16:30,200
And that might be toward human health, toward the betterment of the world, or maybe just

252
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:35,840
discovering the subatomic forces that explain black holes.

253
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:36,840
Just that.

254
00:16:36,840 --> 00:17:03,280
Thank you.