WEBVTT

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What if fear isn't the problem, but the signal?

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Today on The Thoroughbred Journey, I'm sitting

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down with Patrick Sweeney, known as the Fear

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Guru, and this conversation is different. We

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break down the neuroscience of fear, amygdala

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hijack, fight, flight, or freeze, and how you

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can train courage like a muscle so fear stops

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blocking your logic and starts fueling your growth.

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Patrick survived cancer, completely shifted how

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he lived, and turned fear into a system that's

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helped people move forward towards what's possible.

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And for founders and entrepreneurs, we get into

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his Buddha doctrine, where belief comes first,

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because belief is the missing piece that closes

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the belief gap and turns chaos into cadence.

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And if fear has been influencing your choices,

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this conversation right here will give you language,

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clarity, and a real way forward. What's up, fam?

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Before we get into this conversation, let me

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say this. Look, I know it's a thing, right? But

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if what we do here on this channel speaks to

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you, if it lifts you, centers you, or helps you

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see your life a little clearer... I invite you

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to like the video and subscribe so you stay connected.

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And if you want these conversations with you

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beyond YouTube, download the Thrival Journey

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a small ass that goes a long way and it really

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truly helps us create the kind of content that

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doesn't just entertain but actually supports

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your journey of growth and alignment. So hit

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that like, subscribe, let's breathe in, get present.

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step into the conversation. We are here back

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on a another episode of the travel journey. And

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today we're gonna be talking about fear, man.

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And fear is a fame for people. And really, you

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know, we're we have transitioned our podcast

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to this season to talking about disruption, our

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purpose after disruption. And again, fear plays

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somewhere in that. But we have Patrick Sweeney,

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who is Nicknamed the fear guru. And I'm excited

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to have you on, have a conversation with you,

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go into the depths of what this looks like and

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how it really shapes your life and how you experienced

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it. So Patrick, welcome. I'm really happy to

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have you on. Michael, thank you so much for having

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me. And thank you to all the listeners who are

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taking time out of their day to tune in and listen

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to our conversation. Yeah, we have some great

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listeners and watchers and, you know, I'm really

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excited for them to hear this conversation. And

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like I said, you know, at the top of the show,

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Nickname Fear Guru. Like, what's that? Talk about

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that a little bit. Where'd that come from? Well,

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I had a very disruptive experience in my life.

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We can talk about it a little bit later if you

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want. Basically, I grew up living the diary of

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a wimpy kid. I was terrified of everything. I

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saw a plane crash when I was six years old on

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TV and flying was by far my biggest fear. I couldn't

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look at the tail of a plane that had a Delta

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logo on it without flipping out, without my primitive

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brain taking over. Then after that disruptive

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experience, as you call it, near -death experience,

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as I call it, I changed 180 degrees. So I became

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Captain Courageous. So literally one year, diary

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of Olympic kid, next year, Captain Courageous.

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And courage became my superpower and fear became

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my fuel. And I was doing a charity bike ride

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in Boston. And it was like a hundred mile bike

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ride. And I got in a group. You start doing this,

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you get in a group with people kind of the same.

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Speed is you. One of the guys was a neuroscientist

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from Tufts University in Boston. And I said,

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hey, I got a question for you about the brain.

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And I said, you know, this is what happened to

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me. And I said, how did that happen and why?

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And he said, well, it's your amygdala. that's

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your fear center and he said why don't you come

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to my office next week we'll grab a coffee and

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i'll explain it to you so i went into his office

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he sat down he explained everything about the

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amygdala our fear center and he said you know

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if you find this stuff interesting you should

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go over to harvard and talk to my friend scott

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oar because he's doing all this uh research on

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ptsd and and storing memories so i went over

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to Harvard had lunch with Scott Orr. And he said,

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Oh, you know, if you really want to find out

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about how the brain works, and how you bring

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in information and data, you should go see Earl

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Miller at MIT. So these guys, all these neuroscientists

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are like handing me off one to the other. And

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they're all amazing guys, like cute big forehead,

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right? Like big brain guys. And super smart.

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And most of them, I'd have to ask them the question

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like two or three times, but I don't mind doing

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that. I don't care if I look stupid because I

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want to understand what they're saying. And so

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these guys, after that third visit, I thought

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the research they're doing is so cool. It takes

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two years to be peer -reviewed in a study before

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it gets out to the public, and it's really helpful

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information. When it gets peer -reviewed, it's

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in some journal that people don't even understand

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half the words. So I said, okay, you know what

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I'm going to do? I'm going to interview as many

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neuroscientists as I can about their research

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on fear, and I'm going to write a book about

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it. So I wrote the book Fear is Fuel, published

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in March 2020, hit number five on the Wall Street

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Journal bestseller list, and has helped hundreds,

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maybe thousands, I guess thousands of people

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now get over their fear and learn how to use

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it as fuel. That's the story on how I became

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the fear guru. The guru. There's a lot of things

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there, right? You've been on many podcasts. You've

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been on, I say many, I don't know. My research

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gave me at least four. For me, that's many. But

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what is the question about fear? Because you've

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been asked these questions over and over again.

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And so I know that you go in and out. You know

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the world of what fear is. And we'll get to the

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neuroscience of it all. But what is one of the

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questions that hasn't been asked of you that

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people can kind of learn from what fear is all

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about? That hasn't been asked of me. Yeah. Is

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there something that you like sit with and be

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like, I wish I would have shared this or, you

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know, I wish that could, you know, somebody would

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get this knowledge from me in this way. I think,

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you know, I mean, I've done. like 500 speeches

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since the book came out. So I think just about

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every question has been asked, except I don't

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know if anyone's directly asked me this, and

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it's a little bit of a complex neuroscience behind

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it, but I'm not sure anyone's asked me how to

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build courage. what it looks like to build courage,

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because everyone talks about fear. So with fear,

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we've got the amygdala. The amygdala handles

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the three F's, fight, flight, or freeze. And

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the smart part of our brain is called the prefrontal

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cortex. And that's right behind your forehead.

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And that's how we make rational decisions. So

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if we're going to weigh one choice versus the

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other, we're going to do it in that prefrontal

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cortex. That's our intelligence, basically. The

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amygdala is running this 2 million year old piece

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of software. Basically what it does is it says

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when we can't predict the future, we're either

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going to fight, flight, or freeze. It's going

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to be one of those three. It takes over the prefrontal

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cortex. When your amygdala hijacks, you can't

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think of anything else except doing those fight,

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flight, or freeze. there's something really interesting

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there's there is one study one good study i found

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from uh university of of like tel aviv or something

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and um and it's on a region called the s g a

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c c the the singular uh something cortex singular

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interior cortex and the s g a c c is your courage

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center And what they found is people can grow

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the size of their courage center, they can increase

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that SGACC just by making courageous choices.

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So the repetition, like building muscle, reps

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and reps and reps, if you do something that challenges

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you a little bit today, you're gonna increase

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that SGACC. If you do something tomorrow, it's

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a little more challenging, you're gonna increase

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it. If you keep... building and building and

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building, and this is what happened to me, then

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your SGACC is going to get stronger and it can

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turn off your amygdala. So when your amygdala

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tries to hijack, that SGACC can say, no, we're

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safe. We're going to deal with this. We don't

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have to be able to predict the future. We can

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have some uncertainty. Yeah, amygdala hijack.

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I learned that. I was in this and this course,

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and they talked about the amygdala hijack. I

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know about the amygdala, but hijacking, I was

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like, how does that hijack? What's going on there?

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Yeah, it's taken over the rest of your brain.

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Yeah. It's hijacking. It's hijacking. In my assessment,

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fear shows up faster than logic, right? And a

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better way of saying that, Michael, is fear blocks

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out logic. Fear blocks out logic. Yeah. Yeah.

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Covers it up. And so for somebody who is listening

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right now, you talk about the SGACC. Yeah. What

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are some of the things that they can do to it

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and start to encourage their courage and build

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their courage so that the things that they want

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to create for their lives that they're pursuing?

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fear may show up, but how do they just build

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the courage in order to continue to do that so

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fear won't lock them into old patterns and old

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identities? So I think knowing that you can reprogram

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your brain, knowing we can put a better piece

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of software than what we made 2 million years

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ago to survive and to procreate, that's the only

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thing the amygdala cares about is passing our

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genes on to the next generation. if you know

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that and you understand and are aware that we

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can reprogram the mind then what you'll do is

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you'll start to notice every choice you make

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is either made out of opportunity or made out

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of fear and you know i'm talking big choice if

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your career or maybe what you're going to do

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tonight or or who you're going to date it it

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doesn't matter the only two ways are opportunity

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or or fear and fear you can tell really is the

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gateway to something interesting, because you're

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uncertain with it. Our brain's a prediction engine,

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right? We're trying to always predict the outcome

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of every next thing. And when something's different,

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it creates a surprise. A surprise creates what

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neuroscientist named Karl Friston calls free

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energy. And it's basically the root of all fear.

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So if you can start to become aware of fear in

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your decision making and you start to consciously

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say, okay, I'm afraid to go to this party because

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I might look foolish and I just broke up with

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my partner and people are going to ask me and

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I don't want to talk about that. If you go through

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that logic and you say, okay, I'm going to do

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it anyways, I'm going to face this fear and I'm

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going to see what happens, then you build you

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build that conscious resistance up to giving

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in to the fear. So even little stuff like if

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you don't like snakes, watching some YouTube

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videos of guys catching snakes is like a great

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thing to do, because it might freak you out at

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first, but you know it's safe, you know you just

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don't like it, and you can kind of... sit there

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and look at it as a producer. You know, I know

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you're you're a film background, but you can

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you can say, OK, well, I'm going to look at Michael

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sitting in this seat here watching this snake

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video. And when you detach yourself, I often

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advise people to do that. A lot of my speeches,

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I'll have people get in a cold plunge, right?

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Do an ice bath or whatever, just because that

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instills fear in a lot of people. And I always

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say, look at yourself from the edge of the bath

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or wherever we are and pretend that you're producing

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this movie. You're the director of the movie.

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And tell me how you want that guy in the water

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to behave. And that sort of detachment also helps

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you get in touch with that SGACC, with that courage

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center. Yeah, I don't have a I mean I could do

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an ice bath, but I don't so I start with a cold

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shower. That's why I do the high shower then

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I turn to a cold shower So I'm like, oh, yeah,

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but there's a there's a refreshment there, too

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But I had to really train myself into you know,

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taking cold showers Which is interesting, but

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you talk about Benefits so all your listeners

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if you're you know, one of the things people

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don't ask me a ton about is like what would I

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recommend for entrepreneurs and and it's taking

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care of your health right because I I've seen

00:13:48.509 --> 00:13:51.750
health stop more great companies than just about

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anything else but cold showers and cold plunge

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incredible for immune system testosterone fat

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burning you know all that stuff so all your listeners

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should be doing that yes I agree 100 % because

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there's a big shift when I started doing that

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for myself so But, you know, you talked about,

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just to go back to fear a little bit, I don't

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know if I fear them, but I hate snakes when you

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talk about that. But I can, if I have to, you

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know, be around them or watch them, I can do

00:14:26.419 --> 00:14:29.940
that, do that. But I have a friend who I sense

00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:32.259
like - Is this a friend in air quotes, Michael?

00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:40.340
No, no, it's not me. Okay. Okay. No, she's a

00:14:40.340 --> 00:14:43.679
she's a she and she's a friend and she's, she's

00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.059
terrified, like, I think spiders or snakes, one

00:14:46.059 --> 00:14:49.820
of the others. And then I think I sent her something

00:14:49.820 --> 00:14:53.120
on Instagram. And it was supposed to be funny.

00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.860
And she wrote back, Mike, don't ever say me like

00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:59.000
that. It scares me. And so people still but they,

00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:02.360
you know, even though it's like so far from them.

00:15:02.539 --> 00:15:06.259
In their world, but they could steal. just get

00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:08.299
that emotion and that feeling, that signal of

00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:11.659
fear. What is that that keeps showing up for

00:15:11.659 --> 00:15:15.139
them that there's no detachment there? Yeah,

00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:20.220
and that's a big conscious choice. And I do this

00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:22.139
when I work with entrepreneurs a lot. The big

00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:24.179
conscious choice is whether or not you want to

00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:28.620
address your fear. So for me, I believe all your

00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:31.009
dreams are on the other side of fear. I think

00:15:31.009 --> 00:15:32.730
everything that we want, everything that makes

00:15:32.730 --> 00:15:35.330
us happy, everything that's fulfilled isn't necessarily

00:15:35.330 --> 00:15:37.529
going to come easy to us. We've got to get over

00:15:37.529 --> 00:15:41.610
the fear and the doubt and get to that beautiful

00:15:41.610 --> 00:15:45.509
dream that we've been talking about. So your

00:15:45.509 --> 00:15:48.909
friend, she has to be willing to build up her

00:15:48.909 --> 00:15:51.610
courage. She's got to say, hey, Michael, listen,

00:15:51.929 --> 00:15:54.769
I'm tired of being afraid at work every time

00:15:54.769 --> 00:15:58.950
I have to give an update on my business or whatever,

00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:01.509
and I'm tired of being afraid of snakes, and

00:16:01.509 --> 00:16:06.129
I want to work on my courage. When someone creates

00:16:06.129 --> 00:16:09.639
that awareness, then they'll start to see how

00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:12.679
silly most of their fears are. 99 % of our fears

00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:16.460
are just irrational. I call it a fear triangle.

00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:21.559
We've got three areas of fear. One is instinctual,

00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.100
which is just what your friend was talking about.

00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:28.559
Snakes, sharks. Sharks is one of the most irrational

00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.960
fears in the world. Do you know how many people

00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.919
die every year from shark bites? When I lived

00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:39.409
in Los Angeles, there were maybe one, but that

00:16:39.409 --> 00:16:42.169
was out of, you know, maybe for like 13 years.

00:16:42.789 --> 00:16:45.990
So, yeah. So it's like 12 a year and there's

00:16:45.990 --> 00:16:48.070
millions of people in the water all over the

00:16:48.070 --> 00:16:50.169
world. So the odds of getting killed by a shark

00:16:50.169 --> 00:16:53.889
are so minuscule, but people still have that

00:16:53.889 --> 00:16:56.070
fear because it's an instinctual fear, right?

00:16:56.169 --> 00:16:59.389
It's bred into our DNA. We also have physical

00:16:59.389 --> 00:17:04.220
fears and that's like flying. uh skydiving you

00:17:04.220 --> 00:17:08.460
know um getting getting uh hit by a falling rock

00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:11.480
or something like that anything physical we have

00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.799
and then the last the the last uh tangent is

00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:19.480
emotional fears and that's generally around fear

00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.819
of being rejected from the tribe and uh you know

00:17:22.819 --> 00:17:25.660
fear of abandonment and all these emotional things

00:17:25.660 --> 00:17:28.730
and it's funny because You have to train all

00:17:28.730 --> 00:17:30.730
three to get good at all three. So I've worked

00:17:30.730 --> 00:17:34.349
with a bunch of Navy SEALs who are the bravest

00:17:34.349 --> 00:17:36.950
guys in the world, right? And they're jumping

00:17:36.950 --> 00:17:39.210
out of a plane in the middle of a hurricane,

00:17:40.130 --> 00:17:42.589
pitch black at night with 200 pounds of gear

00:17:42.589 --> 00:17:44.470
on them. And they don't bat an eyelash. They're

00:17:44.470 --> 00:17:47.990
joking as they jump out the back. But a couple

00:17:47.990 --> 00:17:49.490
of these guys I've worked with have been married

00:17:49.490 --> 00:17:52.549
like three times, right? Because they haven't.

00:17:52.670 --> 00:17:55.829
on that emotional fear and when things get rough

00:17:55.829 --> 00:17:57.769
they go back to what they know which is fight

00:17:57.769 --> 00:18:00.450
and then you know get out after the fight so

00:18:00.450 --> 00:18:04.190
so the the three fears you have to work on you

00:18:04.190 --> 00:18:05.910
have to have some consciousness that you want

00:18:05.910 --> 00:18:08.369
to work on those three things and then once you

00:18:08.369 --> 00:18:10.529
do it's that you know there's a bunch of different

00:18:10.529 --> 00:18:13.390
ways of doing it but one is called exposure therapy

00:18:13.390 --> 00:18:16.769
you you just start to gradually do a cognitive

00:18:16.769 --> 00:18:19.589
behavioral therapy, which is which is just a

00:18:19.589 --> 00:18:21.450
little bit more, a little bit more exposure,

00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:23.750
getting, you know, upping the stakes a little

00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:25.849
bit and your body adapts to it, your mind adapts

00:18:25.849 --> 00:18:28.390
to it, your your fear center, your courage center,

00:18:28.569 --> 00:18:31.569
all adapt to that little by little kind of, you

00:18:31.569 --> 00:18:34.930
know, progressive steps. Yeah, I can attest to

00:18:34.930 --> 00:18:38.130
that in the emotional part of it, like when you're

00:18:38.130 --> 00:18:41.069
building a business or something and like the

00:18:41.069 --> 00:18:43.730
world of, you know, the unknown or I don't know

00:18:43.730 --> 00:18:47.369
what's You know what to do next. Yeah, what to

00:18:47.369 --> 00:18:51.250
do next. As a post, they're just kind of stuck

00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:54.170
in or not stuck, but just staying in that space

00:18:54.170 --> 00:18:58.630
of I don't know what's what's out there. You

00:18:58.630 --> 00:19:03.250
still make steps anyway to make that business

00:19:03.250 --> 00:19:07.089
that dream the idea happen. Well, and that's

00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:10.430
you know, that's what my new book is about. The

00:19:10.430 --> 00:19:13.299
Founders Creed Founders Creed is. is about having

00:19:13.299 --> 00:19:16.460
a creed that allows you to keep taking those

00:19:16.460 --> 00:19:19.420
steps, right? Because there's something that

00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:22.619
I call a belief gap. So if you're a founder,

00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:25.920
you've got a view of where the world can be five

00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.660
years from now, 10 years from now, right? And

00:19:28.660 --> 00:19:32.339
that's contrary to everyone else on the other

00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:35.240
side of this big canyon who look at the world

00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:39.359
the way it is today. So you've got this whole

00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.680
world besides you that sees the world as it is

00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.599
today, and then you're over here with this dream,

00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:48.799
this idea, this belief, and your job is to recruit

00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:54.119
people internally, employees and internal supporters,

00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:58.400
and recruit people externally, which is investors

00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.640
and customers and journalists and that sort of

00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:04.819
thing, to join you on that. on crossing that

00:20:04.819 --> 00:20:08.299
belief gap. The way you do it is with conviction.

00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.039
If you have this conviction, if you really believe

00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:15.039
that you can change the world, you can leave

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.400
a dent in the world, you can do something, then

00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:20.420
having the concept I introduced in the book is

00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:24.019
called the Buddha Doctrine, B -O -O -D -A. And

00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:28.380
it stems from an Air Force fighter pilot who

00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:30.960
created something called the OODA loop. And OODA

00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.759
loop is Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act. But

00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.099
to make this work in the startup world, to create

00:20:37.099 --> 00:20:39.539
companies that can scale in hypergrowth, you

00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:42.299
need that belief first. So you have to have the

00:20:42.299 --> 00:20:44.960
B in front of the OODA loop to go through those

00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.359
effectively. But once you do, those steps that

00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:48.859
you're talking about and that process you're

00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:51.799
talking about happens automatically. You're doing

00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.170
the OODA loop. As soon as you believe in something,

00:20:55.529 --> 00:20:57.490
you're gonna observe what the world looks like.

00:20:57.730 --> 00:21:00.430
That's the second O. It's the first O. The second

00:21:00.430 --> 00:21:03.450
O is orient yourself. So based on your upbringing,

00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:06.869
your understanding of the industry, your schooling,

00:21:07.049 --> 00:21:09.410
whatever, you're gonna orient yourself, kind

00:21:09.410 --> 00:21:11.490
of filter out the data. Then you're gonna make

00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:13.750
a decision. You decide and then you act. And

00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:16.470
as soon as you act, you get more data and you

00:21:16.470 --> 00:21:18.569
get data that your competitors don't have. So

00:21:18.569 --> 00:21:20.680
you do it again. believe, you observe, you orient,

00:21:20.740 --> 00:21:22.339
you decide, you act. You get more data back.

00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:24.319
Boom. Do it again. Do it again. Do it again.

00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:27.160
And the ones that win are the ones that get through

00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:29.240
those cycles the fastest. As I was going to say,

00:21:29.259 --> 00:21:31.619
that sounds like a good cycle to live through

00:21:31.619 --> 00:21:34.200
over and over again because like you said, it

00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:38.019
creates hyper growth. Yeah. Exactly. That's it.

00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:42.940
So Buddha belief, the belief gap B, first O is

00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:47.539
observe, second O is orient, D decide, A act.

00:21:47.779 --> 00:21:50.519
Buddha. That's it. You got it. I said, and I

00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:53.400
was, I was, I'm glad you went there. Um, at some

00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:54.720
point I was going to get there, but you got there

00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.359
faster, which is cool. Like the right thing to

00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:01.579
do. It was, it was perfect. Um, because I wanted

00:22:01.579 --> 00:22:07.339
to talk about like you, um, you know, you, you

00:22:07.339 --> 00:22:10.480
have a, you had a Buddha kind of, uh, enlightenment,

00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:14.000
I guess, for yourself. Um, you went from, you

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:21.720
said the wimpy. into this superhero mode. I mean,

00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:25.759
you faced some wild things and I attested to

00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:32.279
that because I did as well. And you had leukemia,

00:22:32.380 --> 00:22:37.380
right? Yeah, yeah. And you said that you died

00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:40.839
in a way, right? And then you came back different.

00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:46.359
Explain that or share share what that gap was

00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:52.200
for you. Yeah, that was, in retrospect, I've

00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:53.960
said it's the best thing that ever happened to

00:22:53.960 --> 00:23:00.140
me. I was living this really toxic lifestyle,

00:23:00.819 --> 00:23:08.279
so 33 years old, I guess, and I was constantly

00:23:08.279 --> 00:23:13.420
in fear. I was grew up in this really blue collar

00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:16.980
Irish immigrant area. My dad's first generation

00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:19.779
Irish immigrant. No one in my family went to

00:23:19.779 --> 00:23:21.559
college. I was the first person to go to college,

00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:24.700
but I was afraid of everything. I had an abusive

00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:29.940
grandfather. If you showed any fear, you were

00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:32.039
a complete wimp. Quit being a pussy. Get back

00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:36.460
to work. Don't complain. If you did or you felt

00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:38.359
anything or I felt anything, I felt shame. I

00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:41.140
had all this shame and all this fear flying the

00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:45.039
biggest one. I never did any spring break trips.

00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.519
I never did anything that other people did because

00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.460
I just make some excuse so I wouldn't have to

00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:54.420
fly. I got decent as an athlete in college. I

00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:56.039
joined the rowing team at the University of New

00:23:56.039 --> 00:24:00.240
Hampshire. Then when I graduated, I went to work

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.019
for a bunch of entrepreneurs. I thought, wow,

00:24:03.019 --> 00:24:05.470
I was getting really good at rowing. I wonder

00:24:05.470 --> 00:24:08.349
if I could get really good because if I got good

00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:10.569
at that and I became a great athlete, that'll

00:24:10.569 --> 00:24:14.470
bring me courage. That'll fix the problem. I

00:24:14.470 --> 00:24:16.569
spent five years training for the Olympics and

00:24:16.569 --> 00:24:19.009
I finished second in the Olympic trials, 10th

00:24:19.009 --> 00:24:21.569
in the world, raced the World Cup for three years.

00:24:22.309 --> 00:24:27.329
I had badass courage on the water. As soon as

00:24:27.329 --> 00:24:30.750
I got off the water, back to normal. To race

00:24:30.750 --> 00:24:33.039
the World Cup, I had to drink. eight or ten beers

00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:36.799
to get on a plane. So after the Olympics, I went

00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.640
back to business school because you get a dumb

00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.299
jock entry. Every top 10 business school has

00:24:43.299 --> 00:24:45.660
a Navy SEAL entry and a dumb jock entry. So I

00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:49.539
got the dumb jock entry into University of Virginia

00:24:49.539 --> 00:24:52.279
Darden. Really? I didn't know that. Yeah, of

00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:58.119
course. Got to tick those boxes. And so I thought

00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:01.710
if I make a lot of money, then I'll have courage.

00:25:01.930 --> 00:25:03.769
That'll get me the courage I'm looking for. So

00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:06.690
I set a goal, 40 by 40. I wanna make myself a

00:25:06.690 --> 00:25:08.849
net worth of 40 million bucks by the time I'm

00:25:08.849 --> 00:25:11.309
40 years old. Screw everything else, that's all

00:25:11.309 --> 00:25:16.269
I care about. And so I was doing that, made that

00:25:16.269 --> 00:25:18.930
decision, was doing that from the point of fear.

00:25:19.509 --> 00:25:21.750
And it was fear that was driving all those decisions.

00:25:22.250 --> 00:25:25.829
And I didn't know it, but my amygdala was constantly

00:25:25.829 --> 00:25:30.529
on. And I was producing this fear cocktail 24

00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:32.829
seven like I could I could feel the cortisol

00:25:32.829 --> 00:25:35.910
which is a stress hormone just like sort of seeping

00:25:35.910 --> 00:25:37.769
out of my body and I didn't know what it was

00:25:37.769 --> 00:25:40.130
or and I didn't know how to deal with it so I

00:25:40.130 --> 00:25:43.029
drank right so you know five o 'clock every day

00:25:43.029 --> 00:25:45.529
I I had a little dorm room fridge next to my

00:25:45.529 --> 00:25:49.170
desk you know I didn't believe in offices so

00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:51.349
so we had you know just deaths in the first company

00:25:51.349 --> 00:25:55.099
I started and um guys would come over like five

00:25:55.099 --> 00:25:57.359
or six o 'clock would start having a couple of

00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:00.180
beers. Then I'd go to some venture capital event

00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:02.940
and have three or four more beers and then go

00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:05.920
out with friends afterwards and catch up three

00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:08.519
or four more beers. get home at like one o 'clock

00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:11.200
after eight or nine beers, and then feel guilty

00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.400
about it, that whole Irish Catholic thing. I

00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.539
feel like I had to sweat it out in the morning,

00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:19.180
right? So I'd wake up at five, go to bed at one,

00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.640
wake up at five, hit the gym, and then spend

00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.480
the rest of the day drinking Diet Cokes to keep

00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:28.880
me awake and keep me moving in the startup world.

00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:31.960
And it didn't take long before that lifestyle.

00:26:32.170 --> 00:26:35.470
which is like super toxic, caught up with me.

00:26:35.809 --> 00:26:40.130
And I woke up one morning and I had this really

00:26:40.130 --> 00:26:43.769
bad pain in my wrist. I was going to do back

00:26:43.769 --> 00:26:45.950
and I said, okay, well, I'll just do cardio and

00:26:45.950 --> 00:26:48.150
see what happens. And then the next morning I

00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:50.769
woke up and the whole arm was red and swollen

00:26:50.769 --> 00:26:55.529
and really angry looking. And I said, well, I

00:26:55.529 --> 00:26:57.450
should go to the doctor, but I didn't go to the

00:26:57.450 --> 00:26:59.589
doctor, of course. You know why. I was afraid,

00:26:59.589 --> 00:27:04.230
right? Right, yeah. Exactly. And so third day,

00:27:04.349 --> 00:27:06.130
I could barely get out of bed. I go to the doctor

00:27:06.130 --> 00:27:08.970
and he said, oh, you know, it looks like a staph

00:27:08.970 --> 00:27:13.809
infection. I'll give you some antibiotics. Take

00:27:13.809 --> 00:27:15.430
a blood test. The nurse will call you back in

00:27:15.430 --> 00:27:19.910
the afternoon. And the nurse didn't call me back.

00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:22.990
The doctor did. And that was a phone call that

00:27:22.990 --> 00:27:25.019
changed my life. He said, he said, we don't know

00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:27.059
what it is, but you've got no white blood cells.

00:27:27.059 --> 00:27:29.599
You have no immune system. Come on in. We're

00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:31.220
going to check you in. You can do some tests.

00:27:31.660 --> 00:27:33.380
They did some tests. They couldn't figure it

00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:36.200
out. They said, OK, we don't know what's going

00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:38.640
on, but this is really aggressive and we want

00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.740
to get you to Johns Hopkins. Best hospital in

00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:43.559
the world. Two hours north of here and check

00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:48.420
you in. So my daughter is one year old at this

00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:51.680
point. My wife and I went up to Hopkins and.

00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:57.160
The doctor said, look, we've got a plan now.

00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.759
We don't exactly know what's going on, but we've

00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:04.539
got a plan and we're gonna do that. But if it

00:28:04.539 --> 00:28:07.119
doesn't work, you've probably got two weeks left

00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:10.019
to live. So you should maybe get your affairs

00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:14.920
in order and say your goodbyes. And my wife was

00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.519
sitting there listening to this. She's six months

00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.660
pregnant. Right? My one -year -old daughter's

00:28:19.660 --> 00:28:22.539
at her grandparents' house. And I'm here in all

00:28:22.539 --> 00:28:25.119
this. And the only thing I felt at that point,

00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:28.559
Michael, was this huge sense of regret. Right?

00:28:29.140 --> 00:28:32.799
I thought to myself, I missed out on life because

00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:35.099
I was afraid of dying. And now I'm going to die.

00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:38.200
And I missed out on everything. And it was like

00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:40.900
the worst feeling you could possibly imagine.

00:28:44.629 --> 00:28:54.390
Not to spoil the ending but I lived And I said

00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:57.710
if I get out of here I'm gonna get over this

00:28:57.710 --> 00:29:01.529
fear of flying yeah, and so I got out it took

00:29:01.529 --> 00:29:03.349
a while for my immune system to build back up

00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:05.250
so I couldn't couldn't leave my house for a while

00:29:05.250 --> 00:29:08.910
and And then when I could I went to Leesburg

00:29:08.910 --> 00:29:11.589
Airport and I said I want to take flying lessons

00:29:11.849 --> 00:29:14.890
And I'm going to get my private pilot's license.

00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:20.009
And so the first lesson, I think I peed like

00:29:20.009 --> 00:29:22.089
five times before we even got in the plane, right?

00:29:22.569 --> 00:29:26.490
Hold on one more time. I was so scared. The second

00:29:26.490 --> 00:29:29.569
time, we went out over the Blue Ridge Mountains

00:29:29.569 --> 00:29:31.690
and we hit some turbulence in this little two

00:29:31.690 --> 00:29:33.990
-seater plane. And I actually think I pooped

00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:37.809
myself. I mean, not a lot, just a little bit.

00:29:40.089 --> 00:29:44.750
The really strange thing is after maybe the eighth

00:29:44.750 --> 00:29:47.910
or ninth flight, I fell in love with flying.

00:29:48.529 --> 00:29:53.269
It became the most fulfilling, challenging, passionate

00:29:53.269 --> 00:29:56.609
thing that I've ever done. And I got my private

00:29:56.609 --> 00:29:59.069
license, I got my instrument rating, I got my

00:29:59.069 --> 00:30:01.269
commercial rating, I got my seaplane rating,

00:30:01.369 --> 00:30:04.509
I got my tail dragger, and now I fly aerobatics,

00:30:04.690 --> 00:30:07.769
right? I fly a stunt plane for fun. And even

00:30:07.769 --> 00:30:11.259
just talking about that, you know before this

00:30:11.259 --> 00:30:13.200
incident would have just had me in the corner

00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:15.720
you know like your friend in in the fetal position

00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:19.500
in the corner crying and uh but now it's now

00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:23.160
now i fly anything with a wing and uh it's it's

00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.779
it's like so much fun and such a great joy for

00:30:26.779 --> 00:30:29.299
me that's where you know that's why i say all

00:30:29.299 --> 00:30:31.180
of your dreams are on the other side of fear

00:30:31.180 --> 00:30:35.460
so there's the there's the genesis of that little

00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:37.869
statement of mine you know it's so great like

00:30:37.869 --> 00:30:41.230
so as i'm hearing this it's like it took the

00:30:41.230 --> 00:30:44.829
fear of dying in order to live kind of thing

00:30:44.829 --> 00:30:49.250
and i just i want to say that as a you know as

00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:51.289
we're listening to that story and anyone has

00:30:51.289 --> 00:30:54.670
listened to the story watching spark guys um

00:30:54.670 --> 00:30:57.890
there is something in your story that that other

00:30:57.890 --> 00:31:00.549
people can relate to in their life it may not

00:31:00.549 --> 00:31:03.549
be that you're about to die of cancer or anything

00:31:03.549 --> 00:31:05.509
like that but there could be something that's

00:31:05.509 --> 00:31:07.109
showing up for somebody in their life and saying

00:31:07.109 --> 00:31:11.029
you know what that's me you know like why am

00:31:11.029 --> 00:31:15.349
i afraid to live the dream that I'm creating

00:31:15.349 --> 00:31:18.710
for myself. Why am I afraid to, you know, stop

00:31:18.710 --> 00:31:20.990
living in the old patterns of, you know, the

00:31:20.990 --> 00:31:23.869
old identity that won't allow me to live this

00:31:23.869 --> 00:31:27.289
future fulfilled, you know, that I can? And what

00:31:27.289 --> 00:31:29.509
you live through and what you get to experience

00:31:29.509 --> 00:31:33.970
now is like, I don't know, a thousand times better

00:31:33.970 --> 00:31:36.769
than the way you were living. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:41.119
Crazy good. Yeah. My life is amazing. Yeah. I

00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:42.640
mean, I've done a little research on you. You

00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:44.500
got a couple of homes here in the States, one

00:31:44.500 --> 00:31:49.759
over in Europe. And you started how many companies?

00:31:50.539 --> 00:31:53.279
Five technology companies with three exits. With

00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:58.920
three exits. And would you say that that's something

00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:01.319
that you would have been able to do had you not

00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:06.930
shifted who you were being? No. I think I might

00:32:06.930 --> 00:32:11.650
have been able to, but there's such a different

00:32:11.650 --> 00:32:14.670
life experience when you're doing something out

00:32:14.670 --> 00:32:18.250
of fear versus doing something out of love and

00:32:18.250 --> 00:32:23.869
joy and opportunity. Because I think of Server

00:32:23.869 --> 00:32:26.630
Vault, which was my first company, it was really

00:32:26.630 --> 00:32:29.799
one of the first cloud -hosting companies. cloud

00:32:29.799 --> 00:32:32.759
hosting ever with security enough for insurance

00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:34.500
companies and the government, that sort of thing.

00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:38.480
And I started Server Vault, raised about $30

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.380
million in venture capital and debt. And I made

00:32:42.380 --> 00:32:46.339
every mistake a CEO could make. Because I was

00:32:46.339 --> 00:32:48.500
afraid all the time, I was always in this fight

00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:50.740
mode. Everything was a battle, no matter what.

00:32:51.420 --> 00:32:52.880
Someone's coming in, they want a partnership.

00:32:53.019 --> 00:32:54.759
They really want to try and screw me. I'm not

00:32:54.759 --> 00:32:58.339
going to let that happen. gloves on let's let's

00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:03.579
go and so it was all fear -based behavior for

00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:07.619
me at that point and and it cost me right like

00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:10.440
the we ended up having to restructure the company

00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:12.279
we merged with another company and eventually

00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:19.279
we sold it for 350 million to qts but the the

00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:22.700
path getting there um was partially what led

00:33:22.700 --> 00:33:25.819
to me getting sick and it was also what what

00:33:25.819 --> 00:33:29.099
just made me angry and there wasn't enough and

00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:31.420
you know everyone was trying to screw me so i

00:33:31.420 --> 00:33:35.039
don't you know Would I have been as successful?

00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:39.539
Not a chance. Not even close when I look at how

00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:42.279
I went from, because I had this imposter syndrome,

00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:45.759
which strangely enough, all those CEOs that I've

00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:48.839
spoken with, I'm in this organization called

00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.140
YPO, Young Presidents Organization, and I've

00:33:51.140 --> 00:33:55.259
done. maybe 40 or 50 talks for them each with

00:33:55.259 --> 00:33:57.480
a couple hundred CEOs from all over the world,

00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.420
you know, really big companies to, you know,

00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:04.920
10, $20 million companies. And nearly every one

00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:08.659
of those CEOs that I've spoken with has imposter

00:34:08.659 --> 00:34:11.619
syndrome. at one point or another in their career.

00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:14.760
And your listeners, I guarantee you same thing,

00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.559
90 % of them will have imposter syndrome. But

00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:20.599
if you know that even the top CEOs from huge

00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.420
companies have that same thing from time to time.

00:34:23.789 --> 00:34:27.750
It's a natural fear that you can either flip

00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:29.829
out about when you're on stage and you're wondering,

00:34:30.090 --> 00:34:32.550
why am I up here? I'm no expert. I'm not the

00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:37.309
best guy in this to having to give a report on

00:34:37.309 --> 00:34:41.230
sales figures or whatever. But I think that imposter

00:34:41.230 --> 00:34:45.530
syndrome, if you're the way I was originally,

00:34:45.610 --> 00:34:48.590
I would fight it. And so in my first company,

00:34:48.730 --> 00:34:52.550
I'd wear like $5 ,000 custom suits, you know,

00:34:52.590 --> 00:34:55.570
this is running like a 10 person .com company

00:34:55.570 --> 00:34:58.889
to start because I wanted to look the part of

00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:03.789
strong and courageous and great leader. And then

00:35:03.789 --> 00:35:06.730
after I got sick, it was my second company, this

00:35:06.730 --> 00:35:10.070
first one out of MIT called Odin. After I got

00:35:10.070 --> 00:35:12.289
sick, you know, I showed up at work in t -shirt

00:35:12.289 --> 00:35:14.840
and jeans and I said, Hey, we might be screwed

00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.239
because I've been in the hospital for a couple

00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:19.719
of months and we lost this client, we lost our

00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:23.159
COO. I don't know if we're gonna make it past

00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:26.280
this quarter. And people were like, well, what

00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:28.659
happened to the rah -rah, I've got everything

00:35:28.659 --> 00:35:33.119
under control, general guy, where'd he go and

00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:37.420
who the hell is this guy? And so I think that

00:35:37.420 --> 00:35:42.170
opened up a lot of opportunity for me. to be

00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:45.110
very authentic and very vulnerable. I think those

00:35:45.110 --> 00:35:48.809
are two things that a good leader, particularly

00:35:48.809 --> 00:35:52.250
a servant leader, needs to have to build up great

00:35:52.250 --> 00:35:55.269
companies. Yeah. There's a couple of points here.

00:35:56.190 --> 00:35:59.309
I'll see if we can try to get to it. But the

00:35:59.309 --> 00:36:02.170
imposter syndrome. Listen, anybody that's listening,

00:36:02.389 --> 00:36:08.010
I've heard this over and over again. People that

00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:12.230
we look at, you know, as super successful, I

00:36:12.230 --> 00:36:14.630
can name, you know, a whole bunch of them. You

00:36:14.630 --> 00:36:17.349
know, everybody has gone through that space of

00:36:17.349 --> 00:36:21.690
being or feeling like an imposter because there's

00:36:21.690 --> 00:36:24.489
a level that's higher than what they've experienced

00:36:24.489 --> 00:36:30.210
and they were still doing it anyway, right? And

00:36:30.210 --> 00:36:33.630
so... just as people are listening, um, I would

00:36:33.630 --> 00:36:36.010
consider just from your story and what you've

00:36:36.010 --> 00:36:38.650
been doing, you are a successful person and you've

00:36:38.650 --> 00:36:41.909
experienced that, um, imposter syndrome, right?

00:36:42.170 --> 00:36:44.510
So speak to those, the guys who, who are the

00:36:44.510 --> 00:36:48.349
guys and the gals that, you know, they're getting

00:36:48.349 --> 00:36:50.889
to that, whatever level it is for them. And they're

00:36:50.889 --> 00:36:52.809
like, you know, I don't know if I belong here

00:36:52.809 --> 00:36:55.369
and just, can you speak to that, that person?

00:36:55.829 --> 00:37:00.829
Um, yeah, I think, you know, I mean, um, I think

00:37:00.829 --> 00:37:04.349
having that belief and that conviction, and that's

00:37:04.349 --> 00:37:08.510
why that B is the front part, is that that eliminates

00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:11.610
the doubt, right? Your belief is what's going

00:37:11.610 --> 00:37:13.469
to fight that doubt. And then when that doubt

00:37:13.469 --> 00:37:15.010
comes in, that's when you have that imposter

00:37:15.010 --> 00:37:18.449
syndrome. And one of my favorite stories, and

00:37:18.449 --> 00:37:21.869
you'll appreciate this, is Laurence Olivier,

00:37:22.690 --> 00:37:28.159
one of the best actors of all time. until, I

00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:29.780
can't remember, I think he's 70 years old or

00:37:29.780 --> 00:37:32.780
something like that. He was acting on stage until

00:37:32.780 --> 00:37:36.880
he was in his 70s. And before every performance,

00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:43.019
he'd throw up. Yeah, he just, so his whole career

00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.960
for like his 40 -year career or 50 -year career,

00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:48.539
whatever it was, if he was going to perform on

00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:51.340
stage to a live audience, he'd throw up. And

00:37:51.340 --> 00:37:54.280
he knew it. He knew that was his body's response.

00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.659
He said, okay, let's take this step, get it over

00:37:56.659 --> 00:38:00.739
with and then get to work. And he did. And it

00:38:00.739 --> 00:38:04.320
just amazed me to think that someone so talented,

00:38:04.940 --> 00:38:09.159
so incredibly experienced and well proven had

00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:11.539
this as just part of his routine. He said, look,

00:38:11.539 --> 00:38:13.880
I know my body's going to react to this way.

00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:15.800
I know it's bullshit. I'm just going to go through

00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:19.460
it and then get on stage and kill it. So he did.

00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:23.820
And I think, you know, my friend Sami Inken and

00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:26.960
started two unicorns. One was called Trulia,

00:38:27.219 --> 00:38:30.739
if you remember Trulia. Yeah, yeah, real estate.

00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:34.079
They got bought by Zillow. OK, yeah, for three

00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:36.340
and a half billion. I didn't see him anymore.

00:38:36.500 --> 00:38:39.989
OK, I see why. Yeah, so and then the the one

00:38:39.989 --> 00:38:43.170
he started a few years ago is called Virta health

00:38:43.170 --> 00:38:46.030
and he's he's curing diabetes, which is really

00:38:46.030 --> 00:38:49.230
cool. And I'm an angel investor in Virta. So

00:38:49.230 --> 00:38:52.550
so they had a two and a half billion dollar valuation

00:38:52.550 --> 00:38:55.469
their last fundraising. So so he's he's really

00:38:55.469 --> 00:38:58.070
crushed it. And he said to me, you know, we were

00:38:58.070 --> 00:39:01.550
talking one time on a bike ride. He said he said,

00:39:01.670 --> 00:39:04.670
look, Everyone knows being an entrepreneur is

00:39:04.670 --> 00:39:06.869
like chewing glass for breakfast every morning.

00:39:07.349 --> 00:39:10.150
So if you're going to be an entrepreneur, you

00:39:10.150 --> 00:39:12.730
might as well shoot for something really big.

00:39:13.110 --> 00:39:15.150
And he said, there's not a lot of difference

00:39:15.150 --> 00:39:17.610
between creating a $10 million company and creating

00:39:17.610 --> 00:39:20.150
a $100 million company. So you might as well

00:39:20.150 --> 00:39:24.239
shoot for the $100 million company. And if you

00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:27.000
look, if every one of your listeners who's out

00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:28.619
there thinking, well, maybe I should start a

00:39:28.619 --> 00:39:32.679
company or maybe I could get my company to really

00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:36.139
scale and get hyper growth, if you look at the

00:39:36.139 --> 00:39:38.780
profile of people who've done it, there's somebody

00:39:38.780 --> 00:39:41.820
just like you who's done it successfully, right?

00:39:42.219 --> 00:39:45.380
There's no reason any one of your listeners couldn't

00:39:45.380 --> 00:39:48.849
create the next unicorn. And that's a critical

00:39:48.849 --> 00:39:51.110
thing to keep in mind because people from all

00:39:51.110 --> 00:39:53.889
backgrounds, rich backgrounds, poor backgrounds,

00:39:54.530 --> 00:39:56.909
Ivy League education, high school education,

00:39:57.289 --> 00:39:59.929
it doesn't matter. There's examples of success.

00:40:00.409 --> 00:40:01.989
And that's still, no matter what you think about

00:40:01.989 --> 00:40:04.210
the United States, I've lived all over the world

00:40:04.210 --> 00:40:07.489
and I've lived in Europe off and on for 15 years.

00:40:09.579 --> 00:40:12.119
America, the United States is still the greatest

00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:15.460
place of opportunity, assuming you can get in.

00:40:16.460 --> 00:40:22.800
Exactly now. Because anyone can build anything

00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:24.679
and do anything here, and I love that about this

00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:29.199
country. Yeah. Someone try to connect these two

00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:32.760
with a belief gap in what I'm about to say. Connecting

00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:38.420
to what you said. regardless of what you watch

00:40:38.420 --> 00:40:42.659
on the news and what you hear all the time. Maybe

00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:45.280
news has something to do with, you know, bringing

00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:49.599
fear based ideas into people's world. But I still

00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:51.920
find if I just sit back and just look at everything

00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.619
and what's happening in the United States, there's

00:40:54.619 --> 00:40:58.300
still so much opportunity to create like from

00:40:58.300 --> 00:41:01.440
nothing, you know. I hear stories about people

00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.760
who, you know, were homeless and they're in their

00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:06.880
cars and they help, they start building like

00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:08.960
a click funnel or something like that. And they

00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:10.920
start to, you know, build their business, you

00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:13.099
know, or, and they're not, you know, they're

00:41:13.099 --> 00:41:15.400
no longer homeless or whatever the story may

00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:20.280
be. You can start from ground negative 20 and

00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:22.659
still build yourself up. And I know that a poverty

00:41:22.659 --> 00:41:26.039
mindset kind of probably sets. in there somewhere.

00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.179
But if you go and connect with what you're talking

00:41:29.179 --> 00:41:31.960
about here with your with the Buddha, the Buddha

00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:36.239
loop, doctrine, belief gap, that belief gap in

00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:40.000
who you know you are, who you can be really can

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.340
play a significant part in your life and switching

00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:47.780
like who you think you are to who you know you

00:41:47.780 --> 00:41:53.119
could become. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And go ahead.

00:41:54.539 --> 00:41:59.880
Okay, so the thing that that brings up for me

00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:03.940
is that if people want to change and they want

00:42:03.940 --> 00:42:07.179
to become a better version of themselves, first

00:42:07.179 --> 00:42:10.380
of all, 100 % have to believe that they can do

00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:12.440
that. They have to believe that they can make

00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.480
change or they can do great things. Once you

00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.460
have that belief, and that's a great thing to

00:42:17.460 --> 00:42:20.179
tell your kids by the way, tell your kids if

00:42:20.179 --> 00:42:22.659
you work hard, you can be anything you want to

00:42:22.659 --> 00:42:25.539
be. And don't ever tell them they're smart. Don't

00:42:25.539 --> 00:42:27.079
ever tell them they're a really good athlete

00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:29.760
because that creates a fixed mindset. Then they

00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:31.820
think, oh, I'm smart. I shouldn't fail a test.

00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:34.340
I'm going to cheat. so I don't fail, right? So

00:42:34.340 --> 00:42:38.280
you want them to have this growth mindset where

00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:40.219
you say, if you work hard, you're going to be

00:42:40.219 --> 00:42:41.840
a great athlete. Oh, you got an A on a test?

00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:44.500
It's because you studied hard, right? So you

00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:48.719
reinforce that. But if you have that belief and

00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.940
the courage, you can use the Buddha doctrine

00:42:51.940 --> 00:42:54.179
personally as well. You can use it on yourself.

00:42:54.579 --> 00:42:56.420
If you say, I've got this belief that I want

00:42:56.420 --> 00:42:59.500
to create something great, and then your observation

00:42:59.789 --> 00:43:01.969
is you're going to see the whole world. You're

00:43:01.969 --> 00:43:04.070
going to see whatever it is, the apps you want,

00:43:04.309 --> 00:43:06.710
the friends you hang out with, the way your family

00:43:06.710 --> 00:43:09.969
treats you. You'll see all this stuff. But the

00:43:09.969 --> 00:43:13.550
big challenge is the second O in the Buddha loop,

00:43:13.610 --> 00:43:16.469
and that's the orientation. And this changes

00:43:16.469 --> 00:43:20.250
everything. This is like the gravitational center

00:43:20.250 --> 00:43:24.349
of the Buddha loop is the orientation. Because

00:43:24.349 --> 00:43:27.449
what happens is we make 80 % of our decisions

00:43:27.449 --> 00:43:31.360
every day subconsciously. before you turn the

00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:34.199
key to the car or turn on the radio station,

00:43:34.579 --> 00:43:36.960
your subconscious mind's already made that decision

00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:38.940
and you're just gonna act out on it for them.

00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:44.139
Our subconscious mind is largely built by other

00:43:44.139 --> 00:43:47.739
people. So we don't choose where we're born,

00:43:48.199 --> 00:43:50.199
we don't choose the color of our skin, we don't

00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:52.659
choose the language we speak, we don't choose

00:43:52.659 --> 00:43:54.420
the number of brothers and sisters we have, we

00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:56.579
don't choose if we're rich or we're poor, but

00:43:56.579 --> 00:43:58.940
all of those things go into our subconscious

00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:02.119
as creating our tribe this is what our tribe

00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:04.880
looks like anything outside of that tribe right

00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:06.800
i've got white skin you got black skin you're

00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.360
outside the tribe okay yeah you know i'm not

00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.599
going to talk to you i've got i've got you know

00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:16.739
uh poor um you know homeless person for an uncle

00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:19.579
and you guys are all living in in these beautiful

00:44:19.579 --> 00:44:21.239
mansions right i'm not going to you're not part

00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.719
of my tribe so anything that goes against that

00:44:24.329 --> 00:44:27.110
inherently, from a neurological perspective,

00:44:27.590 --> 00:44:32.550
is wired for us to make decisions about is this

00:44:32.550 --> 00:44:34.769
person someone I want to mate with? Or is this

00:44:34.769 --> 00:44:37.650
person someone I want to kill? And that's the

00:44:37.650 --> 00:44:39.730
our body, our brain has this thing called valence,

00:44:39.750 --> 00:44:42.909
where we make those decisions, split second decisions.

00:44:43.369 --> 00:44:46.070
And when we go through the orientation phase,

00:44:46.110 --> 00:44:49.650
if we really want to change ourselves, then we

00:44:49.650 --> 00:44:54.110
have to replace judgment with curiosity. And

00:44:54.110 --> 00:44:56.690
this is really tough for a lot of people. And

00:44:56.690 --> 00:44:58.829
I have to think consciously about doing it. And

00:44:58.829 --> 00:45:03.409
I've been doing this for 10 years. And I'll give

00:45:03.409 --> 00:45:05.289
you an example. If you walk into a Starbucks,

00:45:05.369 --> 00:45:08.670
so let's say I walk into a Starbucks, very traditional

00:45:08.670 --> 00:45:12.730
Irish Catholic background and very... conservative

00:45:12.730 --> 00:45:15.230
i walk into a starbucks and i look i see some

00:45:15.230 --> 00:45:17.650
dude who looks like he's a victim of a drive

00:45:17.650 --> 00:45:21.550
-by piercing right like he's got he's got all

00:45:21.550 --> 00:45:25.449
this stuff yeah exactly and then you know my

00:45:25.449 --> 00:45:28.010
initial reaction in my tribe is like oh what

00:45:28.010 --> 00:45:31.869
a freak like what's wrong with that dude if you

00:45:31.869 --> 00:45:35.050
can catch yourself in that moment and you can

00:45:35.050 --> 00:45:38.980
say okay wait a minute i'm being judgmental what

00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:42.699
can I find with that guy that's really interesting

00:45:42.699 --> 00:45:47.639
or really cool or that I admire? Well, one, he's

00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:51.320
got a great threshold for pain. He must be able

00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:55.679
to really suck it up and take it. Two, he doesn't

00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.260
care what other people think. He's got enough

00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:01.099
self -respect and self -confidence, and that's

00:46:01.099 --> 00:46:03.260
pretty cool. So if you do that, if you stop,

00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.860
first of all, you incorporate both hemispheres

00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.019
of your brain, because normally when we make

00:46:08.019 --> 00:46:11.579
those judgment decisions, we only do we only

00:46:11.579 --> 00:46:14.000
use half the brain because it's much more efficient

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.239
energetically. So we incorporate both sides of

00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:22.159
the brain. And so we think clearer and then we

00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:25.380
impact our future past, which I know sounds a

00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:29.119
little trippy. But in the future, when you walk

00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.920
into the Starbucks, the next next time you're

00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:35.369
going to rely on your past. to guide your decisions.

00:46:35.869 --> 00:46:40.130
If you put that into your subconscious memory

00:46:40.130 --> 00:46:42.789
that this guy's really cool, he made a great

00:46:42.789 --> 00:46:44.869
latte, it was a good experience, you come back

00:46:44.869 --> 00:46:46.969
in, you're like, where's my dude? I want to order

00:46:46.969 --> 00:46:50.690
with him. It totally changes the person you are.

00:46:51.409 --> 00:46:53.230
As you're going through the Buddha loop, that

00:46:53.230 --> 00:46:56.130
orientation is all about changing your perspective

00:46:56.130 --> 00:46:59.170
and getting as many different perspectives on

00:46:59.170 --> 00:47:02.630
what you observe is possible. And the easiest

00:47:02.630 --> 00:47:05.690
way is to catch yourself making judgments and

00:47:05.690 --> 00:47:09.050
replace it with curiosity. I love that. And that

00:47:09.050 --> 00:47:13.409
brings me to what I've been listening to or hearing

00:47:13.409 --> 00:47:17.610
is that, you know, we're not really in control

00:47:17.610 --> 00:47:21.010
of our first thought if this kind of comes, right?

00:47:21.829 --> 00:47:24.610
But if we just kind of say, okay, I get that

00:47:24.610 --> 00:47:26.329
thought, and that thought is not necessarily

00:47:26.329 --> 00:47:29.440
who I am or what I want to really think. Let

00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.980
me go to my second thought and then I can really

00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:36.099
reassess what that was for me. That's exactly

00:47:36.099 --> 00:47:39.139
it. Yeah, it's the same thing, right? It's you

00:47:39.139 --> 00:47:42.340
bringing your consciousness in what's called

00:47:42.340 --> 00:47:45.519
agency, right? You've got the ability to take

00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:49.719
agency over your life, your business, your leadership,

00:47:50.019 --> 00:47:54.969
whatever it is. If people are aligned with that

00:47:54.969 --> 00:47:56.929
in your business, you can do great things, right?

00:47:57.010 --> 00:48:00.469
Because that's when you go from managing a business

00:48:00.469 --> 00:48:05.730
to leading a movement. Leading a movement. That's

00:48:05.730 --> 00:48:10.429
big. Yeah. Yeah, that is big. That's living like

00:48:10.429 --> 00:48:18.949
a great idea. Just a great idea. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

00:48:19.889 --> 00:48:25.099
I'm living at that right there. So, I mean, I

00:48:25.099 --> 00:48:29.099
was looking at your new book that's coming out,

00:48:29.539 --> 00:48:31.539
The Founder's Creed, which was talking about

00:48:31.539 --> 00:48:38.340
the Buddha doctrine, right? And you said that

00:48:38.340 --> 00:48:40.920
in the world of, and I'm going to just kind of

00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:44.320
just go over this a little bit. The problem you

00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:46.619
state is the market is buying what you're building,

00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:50.260
but every day is a grind. You need more than

00:48:50.260 --> 00:48:52.769
the OODA loop, which is the Observe, Orient,

00:48:52.929 --> 00:48:56.309
Decide, Act, you need the missing piece that

00:48:56.309 --> 00:48:59.570
separates a billion -dollar exit from quiet failures.

00:49:00.869 --> 00:49:04.230
Right? So even if it's like, if someone's listening,

00:49:04.429 --> 00:49:06.190
it's not like they don't get the concept of a

00:49:06.190 --> 00:49:09.130
billion -dollar exit, just kind of go with it,

00:49:09.130 --> 00:49:11.969
right? Because it could be anything, right? But

00:49:11.969 --> 00:49:13.909
then you said the solution is belief. We talked

00:49:13.909 --> 00:49:19.110
about it earlier. The B comes before the OODA.

00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:22.179
The Buddha doctrine shows you how to close the

00:49:22.179 --> 00:49:25.679
belief gap and transform your company into unstoppable

00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:29.619
hyper growth force. And we've talked about that.

00:49:30.500 --> 00:49:33.920
But just in an everyday practical, I know you

00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:38.579
talk about the billion dollar exit, we kind of

00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:41.960
talked about it, but in a practical way, if somebody

00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:48.079
was to walk away from that doctrine right now,

00:49:48.380 --> 00:49:52.710
how can they? Apply it to their everyday life

00:49:52.710 --> 00:49:55.670
Sure, they're they're everyday personal life

00:49:55.670 --> 00:49:58.389
or their business life Well, let's can we do

00:49:58.389 --> 00:50:00.090
it in both ways like I mean because you know

00:50:00.090 --> 00:50:03.230
you have people in you know in different respects

00:50:03.230 --> 00:50:07.409
Yeah, yeah Okay. So for for business, that's

00:50:07.409 --> 00:50:12.030
the the easy one they when you you've got across

00:50:12.030 --> 00:50:14.849
this belief gap right when when you you've got

00:50:14.849 --> 00:50:17.349
this vision of the world and how you can make

00:50:17.349 --> 00:50:19.510
a dent in it and then everyone else is over here

00:50:19.510 --> 00:50:24.309
on the other side then what your what your entire

00:50:24.309 --> 00:50:27.090
goal is is to convince other people to do that

00:50:27.090 --> 00:50:30.110
but other people are going to have um they're

00:50:30.110 --> 00:50:31.670
not going to believe you right they won't have

00:50:31.670 --> 00:50:35.230
the belief they'll have doubts so your goal every

00:50:35.230 --> 00:50:39.440
day is to metabolize that doubt and turn it into

00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:42.159
conviction. And if you do that, the way you do

00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:46.880
that is to show progress. And this is why a lot

00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:49.599
of companies get stalled trying to create 100

00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:54.420
% solution. They'll get you a 70 % solution in,

00:50:54.420 --> 00:50:56.780
let's say, a month on a new app or whatever.

00:50:57.179 --> 00:50:59.599
Then they'll take another month, six weeks, to

00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:05.670
get that other 30 % that they've got left. It's

00:51:05.670 --> 00:51:09.789
because their decision -making speed has slowed

00:51:09.789 --> 00:51:11.690
down, and they're not metabolizing that doubt.

00:51:11.730 --> 00:51:13.869
They're creating more doubt the longer they wait.

00:51:14.230 --> 00:51:17.170
So when you've got a 70 % solution, let it go.

00:51:17.550 --> 00:51:21.429
Release it, let people experience it, because

00:51:21.429 --> 00:51:23.190
you're going to get data back. This is where

00:51:23.190 --> 00:51:26.250
the loops start to come in. So if you've got

00:51:26.250 --> 00:51:31.190
people believing, OK, we can get to something

00:51:31.190 --> 00:51:35.550
that we can manage that has a certain impact,

00:51:35.730 --> 00:51:37.489
a certain amount of feedback, and then we can

00:51:37.489 --> 00:51:39.650
change it and we can do it again. We get to that

00:51:39.650 --> 00:51:42.769
70 % solution, we'll let it go again. Instead

00:51:42.769 --> 00:51:45.829
of trying to build the perfect results, instead

00:51:45.829 --> 00:51:48.510
of trying to be 100%. And I've had a bunch of

00:51:48.510 --> 00:51:51.949
tech guys working for me, a few CTOs who said,

00:51:52.070 --> 00:51:53.989
no, no, no, we can't deliver it. It's not ready

00:51:53.989 --> 00:51:55.550
yet. It's not perfect. And I said, let's get

00:51:55.550 --> 00:51:57.789
it out there and find out what our customers

00:51:57.789 --> 00:52:00.949
think and get as much feedback as we can. Because

00:52:00.949 --> 00:52:04.860
at the end of the day, and this is personal as

00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:07.659
well as business, there's no such thing as good

00:52:07.659 --> 00:52:11.179
news or bad news. There's no such thing as either

00:52:11.179 --> 00:52:14.300
one. It's just data, right? It's all data that's

00:52:14.300 --> 00:52:18.000
gonna help you decide what you do next. And one

00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:20.460
of the things that in imposter syndrome causes

00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:24.320
this all the time is people get that amygdala

00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:28.199
reaction, that hijack, and they freeze. Okay,

00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:32.039
so I'm working with a company in, well, they're

00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:33.880
in five countries now in Europe, but they were

00:52:33.880 --> 00:52:36.219
looking at the German market, and I talk about

00:52:36.219 --> 00:52:38.159
this in the book, and they were trying to get

00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:40.460
into the German market for their clinics. They

00:52:40.460 --> 00:52:44.260
have these specialized clinics for removing varicose

00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:49.239
veins, and they had a huge opportunity in Germany.

00:52:50.019 --> 00:52:52.960
Their goal is to build up to 400 clinics in two

00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:56.619
years, and the CEO couldn't make a decision.

00:52:56.809 --> 00:52:59.710
He kept asking, let's get another report. Let's

00:52:59.710 --> 00:53:02.250
talk to another private equity firm. Let's see

00:53:02.250 --> 00:53:05.230
what the analysts say about this. And he froze.

00:53:06.090 --> 00:53:09.750
That was because he knew that if he bought this

00:53:09.750 --> 00:53:11.909
hospital, there was a hospital he had to buy

00:53:11.909 --> 00:53:13.510
to go with it. He didn't know how to run hospitals.

00:53:13.650 --> 00:53:15.349
He knew how to run these little vein clinics,

00:53:15.789 --> 00:53:19.010
but not a hospital. So he was scared. And that

00:53:19.010 --> 00:53:21.969
stopped the loop instead of making a decision,

00:53:22.090 --> 00:53:26.369
getting data back, and using data. over opinions,

00:53:26.369 --> 00:53:29.510
right? That's the way it should always be. That

00:53:29.510 --> 00:53:33.070
is, I don't know if you get how powerful that

00:53:33.070 --> 00:53:36.369
is, but I'm sure you do. But that right that

00:53:36.369 --> 00:53:38.210
little second right there is a very powerful

00:53:38.210 --> 00:53:41.130
segment. Because if if you're listening to that,

00:53:41.170 --> 00:53:44.730
as I'm listening to it, as I'm, you know, building

00:53:44.730 --> 00:53:49.610
the media company, like that is so ideal, especially

00:53:49.610 --> 00:53:52.769
for the project that we're doing right now. And

00:53:52.909 --> 00:53:57.869
It's like, don't stop the progress that could

00:53:57.869 --> 00:54:01.929
really bring information or data that can make

00:54:01.929 --> 00:54:06.489
the 70 % to like a 90%, 100%, whatever. And one

00:54:06.489 --> 00:54:09.929
of the greatest things that you just said is

00:54:09.929 --> 00:54:12.090
you said there's no good news, bad news. It's

00:54:12.090 --> 00:54:14.969
just data. One I used to tell myself, Matt, no.

00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:18.119
I used to be I was like, I was never wanted to

00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:20.980
say or share anything to anybody. I would keep

00:54:20.980 --> 00:54:23.039
it to myself. Oh, it's a great idea. But I keep

00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:24.900
it to myself, right? It's only a great idea over

00:54:24.900 --> 00:54:27.780
here. Yeah. Yeah. The thing is, if you know,

00:54:27.780 --> 00:54:29.719
I wanted to do that, because I didn't want people

00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:33.719
to say no, or you suck or whatever it is. And

00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:39.159
emotional figure. Yeah. That's my that's my thing

00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:44.300
that I'm working on. But the thing when I heard

00:54:44.300 --> 00:54:48.780
this Little phrase is no is nothing but data

00:54:48.780 --> 00:54:52.739
Yeah, that freed me up man and freed me up to

00:54:52.739 --> 00:54:55.219
be like, you know what? I'm even though whatever

00:54:55.219 --> 00:54:58.420
doing is you know, it's messy It's it's not great

00:54:58.420 --> 00:55:01.619
100 % yet and maybe 50 % 40 % whatever just put

00:55:01.619 --> 00:55:05.980
it out there and be okay to Look crazy or fail

00:55:05.980 --> 00:55:10.119
or whatever because that is data and and you

00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:13.829
know, I think there's There's a lot of people

00:55:13.829 --> 00:55:17.789
who have those emotional fears who are afraid

00:55:17.789 --> 00:55:21.469
to step out there and put it out there for fear

00:55:21.469 --> 00:55:23.630
of rejection from the tribe, right? It's one

00:55:23.630 --> 00:55:27.650
of the oldest fears that we have. So good for

00:55:27.650 --> 00:55:32.349
you for stepping up there and recognizing that.

00:55:33.230 --> 00:55:34.909
Well, it's in these kinds of conversations that

00:55:34.909 --> 00:55:39.599
I get to really look at the mirror. Because when

00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:41.840
you when people like you like I mentioned before

00:55:41.840 --> 00:55:46.599
we got on like We have some like in our in our

00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:50.179
short, you know lifetime. We've had like extraordinary

00:55:50.179 --> 00:55:54.340
guests That don't they bring the real stuff.

00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:56.940
You know what I mean? They bring the raw great

00:55:56.940 --> 00:56:01.500
diamond platinum kind of information and I get

00:56:01.500 --> 00:56:03.280
to listen to this thing like I don't know how

00:56:03.280 --> 00:56:07.039
many times before it gets to publish and I get

00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:10.380
to like get to look at myself what's good what

00:56:10.380 --> 00:56:13.099
shows up as you know what's missing and I could

00:56:13.099 --> 00:56:15.619
you know put in place that could make things

00:56:15.619 --> 00:56:19.699
move further um in my life and this conversation

00:56:19.699 --> 00:56:24.239
is one of those conversations and you know while

00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:26.119
I'm still trying to host and lead the conversation

00:56:26.119 --> 00:56:29.000
and then getting all these trying to think about

00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:33.599
how it yeah affects you yeah yeah it's a task

00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:40.039
but you know um so like grateful that I get to

00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:42.739
cross with or get to the intersection of people

00:56:42.739 --> 00:56:45.800
like yourself that I probably normally would

00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:47.679
not be able to if we didn't have the podcast.

00:56:47.860 --> 00:56:52.000
So I want to just say thank you because your

00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:56.659
information is, like I said, diamond. It's platinum.

00:56:56.780 --> 00:56:58.139
It's better than gold. You know what I mean?

00:56:58.619 --> 00:57:01.519
And so just everything that you shared today.

00:57:01.539 --> 00:57:08.690
Like Bitcoin. Like what? Like Bitcoin. Big. Better

00:57:08.690 --> 00:57:13.849
than diamonds and gold. Better, better. And you

00:57:13.849 --> 00:57:16.610
know, you don't normally go just an hour. So

00:57:16.610 --> 00:57:20.929
I just wanted to respect that. But you know what

00:57:20.929 --> 00:57:23.489
you have to say and who you've been and the things

00:57:23.489 --> 00:57:25.250
that you've gone through to get to the other

00:57:25.250 --> 00:57:27.880
side to be able to share. what you're sharing

00:57:27.880 --> 00:57:30.579
like guru for sure you know I mean so you know

00:57:30.579 --> 00:57:33.940
that that um that moniker really belongs to you

00:57:33.940 --> 00:57:36.519
so thank you for being able to share this information

00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:40.260
um and everything that you have and um you know

00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:41.960
is there anything that you want to say before

00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.880
you know I'll get to the the other last segment

00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:49.440
of this I'd say Michael um first of all my my

00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:52.039
purpose in life you know the purpose of writing

00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:56.429
Fear is Fuel my first book was to help thousands

00:57:56.429 --> 00:57:59.250
of people, you know, face their fears and learn

00:57:59.250 --> 00:58:00.929
how to use it as something productive and not

00:58:00.929 --> 00:58:04.110
cripple himself. The Founders Creed, my goal

00:58:04.110 --> 00:58:07.449
is to help create a thousand unicorns. So I'm

00:58:07.449 --> 00:58:08.809
sure there's gonna be a couple of people listening

00:58:08.809 --> 00:58:11.389
to your podcast who are gonna be on my list.

00:58:11.789 --> 00:58:14.210
So I tell them, you know, make sure you contact

00:58:14.210 --> 00:58:16.849
me and let me know when you're a unicorn. And

00:58:16.849 --> 00:58:24.190
I think they're simple, but not easy tools. which

00:58:24.190 --> 00:58:26.889
is what I lay out in the book that you can use

00:58:26.889 --> 00:58:29.610
to affect your business and affect your life

00:58:29.610 --> 00:58:33.489
and the the key thing is you know that being

00:58:33.489 --> 00:58:37.650
curious and having that curiosity and and that's

00:58:37.650 --> 00:58:40.449
what drives I think your ability to get over

00:58:40.449 --> 00:58:43.809
obstacles or or to learn from obstacles to get

00:58:44.170 --> 00:58:48.070
to metabolize that doubt. And then I think in

00:58:48.070 --> 00:58:51.389
a messy situation like your life or like a business,

00:58:51.909 --> 00:58:54.670
people are really good in general at putting

00:58:54.670 --> 00:59:00.340
out fires. We've got an emergency. I can see

00:59:00.340 --> 00:59:02.760
where the end is. I can go fix that. I can do

00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:04.579
something. A lot of entrepreneurs are really

00:59:04.579 --> 00:59:08.619
good in chaos, those moments of chaos. If you

00:59:08.619 --> 00:59:11.780
want to succeed in your life and in your business,

00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:14.579
you've got to learn how to turn that chaos into

00:59:14.579 --> 00:59:19.239
cadence. You keep that speed, you keep that flywheel

00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:21.760
moving even when there's no fire to put out.

00:59:21.869 --> 00:59:24.929
Right? You keep pushing ahead and you keep driving.

00:59:25.530 --> 00:59:27.429
And that's what creates, when you create that

00:59:27.429 --> 00:59:29.750
cadence, you create momentum. When you create

00:59:29.750 --> 00:59:32.349
momentum, all those people who are crossing that

00:59:32.349 --> 00:59:34.969
belief gap with you now really believe, and you've

00:59:34.969 --> 00:59:37.750
got momentum going that that's a movement. I

00:59:37.750 --> 00:59:40.269
love that. I love that. Right? Turning that chaos

00:59:40.269 --> 00:59:44.550
into cadence and creating movement as opposed

00:59:44.550 --> 00:59:48.110
to squiggly lines. That's how I see it in my

00:59:48.110 --> 00:59:55.019
mind's eye. Patrick, Fierce Fuel, The Surprising

00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:57.179
Power to Help You Find Purpose, Passion, and

00:59:57.179 --> 00:59:59.199
Performance. That's on Amazon. You can get it

00:59:59.199 --> 01:00:02.039
on Amazon, or we'll have the link to it. Audio

01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:05.500
book is fun too. I did that during COVID with

01:00:05.500 --> 01:00:07.320
all the people I wrote about in each chapter

01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:09.579
come in for a little mini podcast at the end

01:00:09.579 --> 01:00:11.960
of each chapter. It's pretty cool. Yeah, so the

01:00:11.960 --> 01:00:16.260
people don't read. There's the audio book. And

01:00:16.260 --> 01:00:19.769
then you have The Founder's Creed, which is is

01:00:19.769 --> 01:00:23.929
new, and you're offering the first chapter for

01:00:23.929 --> 01:00:27.369
people to read in the pre -order. Go to the site.

01:00:27.389 --> 01:00:30.250
You can download the first chapter. And as a

01:00:30.250 --> 01:00:33.170
pre -order, so it releases March 17th, St. Patrick's

01:00:33.170 --> 01:00:37.289
Day. St. Patrick's Day, yeah. And there's a 25

01:00:37.289 --> 01:00:40.449
% discount for pre -orders. There's the founderscreed

01:00:40.449 --> 01:00:43.230
.com. Well, how about all those links in the

01:00:43.230 --> 01:00:47.650
show notes and everything? And this was really

01:00:47.650 --> 01:00:50.460
meant this conversation was number one meant

01:00:50.460 --> 01:00:55.340
for people to really call out the fear and then

01:00:55.340 --> 01:01:00.039
and really be just be the awareness have it as

01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.280
an awareness of what that is for them and then

01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:06.840
not, you know, have them be stopped by it. Yeah,

01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:09.519
and then it also turn the other side and get

01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:11.500
on the other side of that. And through that you

01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:15.760
can work on building and encouraging your courage

01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.260
and becoming, you know, the person that you see

01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:23.039
yourself becoming in the world. And you can get

01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:24.980
that, you know, if you need some more support,

01:01:25.260 --> 01:01:28.500
you know, connect with connect here with Patrick

01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:32.460
and get the books and things like that. And I

01:01:32.460 --> 01:01:34.199
know you have Instagram or you have Instagram.

01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:37.519
Yeah. Instagram, the Fear Guru, LinkedIn, the

01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:40.460
Fear Guru. So yeah, if your listeners want to

01:01:40.460 --> 01:01:42.059
hit me up with anything, you know, questions

01:01:42.059 --> 01:01:45.800
or stories or whatever, love to hear from people,

01:01:45.980 --> 01:01:49.059
particularly LinkedIn is probably spend more

01:01:49.059 --> 01:01:53.000
time there. Nice. Okay. LinkedIn, Instagram,

01:01:53.139 --> 01:01:56.059
the Fear Guru. Oh, I wanted to say to this, I

01:01:56.059 --> 01:01:59.559
think we have one of my, I have a few. uh animals

01:01:59.559 --> 01:02:03.199
that I love um and I was you know not snakes

01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:09.699
though not snakes not even close um but cheetahs

01:02:09.699 --> 01:02:12.219
um I've always because I ran track and field

01:02:12.219 --> 01:02:15.199
I was in you know the sprinter um I've always

01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:18.460
been attracted to cheetahs well it's dogs cheetahs

01:02:18.460 --> 01:02:24.119
are lions and um um uh we call them um uh I was

01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:27.650
about to say falcons but um Oh my god, I can't.

01:02:27.670 --> 01:02:32.070
Eagles? Eagles? Falcon? No. I can't even think

01:02:32.070 --> 01:02:33.590
of the name of it right now. Phoenix. The Phoenixes.

01:02:33.690 --> 01:02:35.230
Even though I know Phoenixes are, they're not

01:02:35.230 --> 01:02:40.349
real. Those are just my, the animals that I really,

01:02:40.809 --> 01:02:44.369
you know, I love anyway. But I saw that you love,

01:02:44.369 --> 01:02:47.250
you love cheetahs as well. And I think I saw

01:02:47.250 --> 01:02:52.590
you with one. I got to hang out with a couple

01:02:52.590 --> 01:02:54.989
of them actually in South Africa. Yeah, it was

01:02:54.989 --> 01:02:57.949
super cool. I did a speaking gig and then went

01:02:57.949 --> 01:03:04.389
and there's a, it's like a reserve veterinarian

01:03:04.389 --> 01:03:08.730
center where they do, they help heal lions and

01:03:08.730 --> 01:03:11.610
they're doing genetic research on why. So hyenas

01:03:11.610 --> 01:03:13.670
apparently never get cancer and they're trying

01:03:13.670 --> 01:03:18.440
to figure out if they can help. other animals

01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:22.480
like lions and buffalo and stuff like that get

01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:24.440
the same thing. It's like really interesting

01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:26.519
stuff but you can go there and you can stay there

01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:29.800
for like three or four days and volunteer. And,

01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:32.179
you know, maybe it's 500 bucks a night to go

01:03:32.179 --> 01:03:34.300
as a tourist and like a hundred bucks a night

01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:37.019
if you go and you volunteer and help. And so,

01:03:37.019 --> 01:03:40.599
uh, so I got to chill out with, with those cheetahs

01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:43.280
and I was, it was like, it was crazy because

01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:46.119
they were so docile, you know, and I'm in the

01:03:46.119 --> 01:03:47.780
picture, you probably saw him petting the cheetah

01:03:47.780 --> 01:03:51.820
on the head. And I'm thinking, man, like a flash

01:03:51.820 --> 01:03:54.369
of a second, this sucker could just. take his

01:03:54.369 --> 01:03:57.610
claws and rip my throat out. And you know, so

01:03:57.610 --> 01:03:59.789
I had definitely had some fear going in there.

01:04:00.050 --> 01:04:02.650
Wow. But you know, you had the fear but you faced

01:04:02.650 --> 01:04:04.809
it and you went in. Yeah, yeah, it was awesome.

01:04:05.769 --> 01:04:09.710
Great photo opportunity. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

01:04:09.949 --> 01:04:11.849
Oh, man. So this is just shooting the stuff.

01:04:11.889 --> 01:04:15.909
Um, so anyway, thank you for being here. Like,

01:04:16.230 --> 01:04:18.230
you mean you're living your you're living your

01:04:18.230 --> 01:04:21.050
your truth. And I love that. And so just thank

01:04:21.050 --> 01:04:24.710
you. And You know, for all the watchers and listeners,

01:04:25.090 --> 01:04:27.010
as we always say, let's make thriving our new

01:04:27.010 --> 01:04:29.409
normal and we'll see you on the next podcast.

01:04:30.230 --> 01:04:32.309
Take care. Michael, thank you so much. Thank

01:04:32.309 --> 01:04:34.929
everyone else for listening as well. Absolutely.

01:04:35.710 --> 01:04:36.429
Absolutely. See you next week.