says, hey, what do you think about jumping out
of planes? And then I was like, find me up. I
get separated from everybody else. Wait, why
am I getting separated from everybody else? They
sent me to some barracks by myself. Ended up
working for a major. Angry Black Woman thing
was connected to you? You know what's crazy?
I thought it was me, because nobody talked about
that. And I thought, I'll work even harder. So
I'm already working 50 hours a week. I'll work
60 hours a week, because I'm going to prove myself.
Then got you to realize that you had to make
a shift for yourself, for your sustainability.
When I got laid off the second time. The light
shined. For some reason, I always found myself
in extremely toxic organizations, where I had
to protect employees, where I had to stand up
to executive leaders. And I had thought at that
time that I thought, oh, I can't ever get any
more toxic than this. God had to kick me out
because I still would have been trying to prove
myself. I ended up working with an executive
coach. Whatever, she just, she was tough because
I know how to do the smile and okay, okay, well,
nothing's wrong. First of all, niching down or
niching down, however you want to say it, is
probably more ideal for a person. Because in
that, like you said, what you do like it, what
you don't like. And if you find out what you
do like, there can be more fulfillment just in
your dailies. Like, you know, you're fulfilling
yourself because it's something that you love.
Probably happier. Of course. You find people
being happier. Oh, I can tell the energy shift
with my client who doesn't like people. We finally
started figuring out what he does like. What's
up, fam? Before we get into this conversation,
let me say this. Look, I know it's a thing, right?
But if what we do here on this channel speaks
to you, if it lifts you, centers you, or helps
you see your life a little clearer. I invite
you to like the video and subscribe so you stay
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It is a small ass that goes a long way and it
really truly helps us create the kind of content
that doesn't just entertain but actually supports
your journey of growth and alignment. So hit
that like, subscribe, let's breathe in, get present.
step into the conversation. Hello, Monique Gibson
is on the Thrivewell Journey podcast today. First
of all, I want to just say, welcome to the podcast.
How you doing? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I'm so honored to be asked. I really am. I'm,
I'm, I'm excited. I'm excited too. I, well, just
to create just some context here. I've known
you since what? Oh my God, 19. the late 90s?
2002? 2002? No, I think it was before then. Like
99 2000. So we have we have history, right? Yeah.
One of the things I found find out with you know,
people that I've known is that they have extraordinary
stories that I don't even know about. And I was
going across some of the social media and I saw
you in a post. And I was like, This is Mo? What?
Like, flabbergasted. I was like, who is this
person that I've known for so long and really
don't know the ins and outs of who you are, which
is why you're here. And I want to just kind of,
before we get to the, you know, the titles and
the roles and the accomplishments, I want to
ask you, like, I'm curious, like, what's one
belief that has remained unchanged for you, no
matter where life has taken you? Because what
I'm finding out, you have many, many places that
you've gone in your life and your story. And
I want to know. First thing that came to my mind,
I have to put in the work, period. Nobody's going
to give me anything. I got to work for everything
that I want. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And with
all that, like, put in the work, right? Like,
so you've... You've done a lot of things. You,
you have a Juris Doctorate. You've, you know,
I mean, it's a lot of things. I can just list
them, but I want to go back to the beginning.
Like in your professional career, you started
as an arm in the army. Um, from my research,
uh, I'm not going to try to pronounce it in Germany.
All right. Yes. So if I could back up before
then, so yes. In school, in the third grade,
I had a teacher who, she just didn't like me.
She wanted to make everything challenging for
me. She wanted to hold me back a grade. Well,
fortunately, in the fourth grade, I had Mrs.
Ash. Mrs. Ash, she didn't take any mess from
me. And she was like, you're real smart. By the
time I got to the fifth grade, I was still in
her classroom. She put me in the eighth grade
math book and I was doing the math. So she saw
something in me. that I didn't even know that
I had, but she gave me a chance and she developed
that. So then I started excelling in school,
excelling in school. And then when I got to high
school, I was goody two shoes. Oh, you so smart.
So then I tried to dumb myself down. Stopped
going to class. Barely graduated. Somehow I found
out about Grand Valley. It was college at the
time. Went, flunked, played all day. Met a friend
there. We just played all day. Never went to
the library, just played. Army recruiter calls.
Says, hey, what do you think about jumping out
of planes? And then I was like, sign me up. Why
not? Why not? No discipline, just sign me up.
So go through, you know, the tests and things.
So my best friend at the time, she went back
to college because she was like, yeah, I changed
my mind. So I was like, okay, forget it. I changed
my mind too. They come knocking on the door.
Y 'all ready? Nah, we changed our mind. Yeah,
no. You ready? So, we go to boot camp. Go to
boot camp. I promise I'm not making this up.
I was so good at everything that we did on the
gun range. I had never shot a weapon before.
Expert marksman. I'm marching. It didn't matter
how much weight they gave me. I'm like do do
do do do do. Everything we did, I was on the
range one day. and I'm laying on my stomach on
the range. Drill Sergeant comes in my ear, he
says, are you undercover CID? I said, Drill Sergeant,
what? Are you undercover CID? I didn't even know
what CID was. CID, Criminal Investigations Department.
They thought I was undercover looking for something
I guess the drill sergeants were doing. Because
you're so good? Because it just came natural
to me. I loved it. Loved the discipline. I loved
the challenge. I was an athlete. Very competitive.
It just worked for me. So ended up, we're graduating.
They go, everybody's going to Germany. What?
I am. I was like, it's okay, babe. You'll be
okay. Oh, don't get me started about my mom.
Whatever you want to do, you do it. Okay, man,
I'm going to be okay. You're going to be okay.
Get to spexing in Germany. On assignment I get
separated from everybody else They send me to
to some barracks by myself Ended up working for
a major Again, I still had some development to
do I've always had a mouth He tells me to carry
some you know, ream of paper when they have ten
reams in a box. Oh, yeah That's like 40 pounds.
It was old Germany. So it was like up two flights
of stairs. So he says, you know Gamel, that's
my maiden name. Go down there and get that box.
Sir, you go get it. So, buffing floors at night.
You told my man go get it, you go get it. Yes,
I did. You go get it. It's heavy. You go get
it. You big burly, you go get it. No way. I was
an expert floor buffer, but he saw something
in me. He said, you know what? You real spicy.
He said, but you smart. He said, you just need
to work on that attitude. He said, where do you
want to go next? I said, if you're that great,
send me to the Pentagon. That was right when
Desert, I think it was Desert Storm started rolling
up, people being sent over to Desert Storm. I
get orders to go to the Pentagon. I said, how
did that happen? How did that happen? Get to
the Pentagon. I'm in a meeting, all these officers.
We need somebody who can do Harvard graphics
at the time. We need somebody who can do this.
We need somebody. One of them says, dog on it,
soldier, what can't you do? I said, that would
be nothing. I said, if it's something I don't
know how to do, I'll figure it out. They were
like, oh, oh, oh. I ended up working with military
personnel at the White House. I mean, 19. 19
years old. But you came in with gusto. Yes, yes.
But that gusto had a sergeant that I didn't particularly
care for. I said, you know, I'm tired of dealing
with you. He would make all these off the walk.
I'm getting out. Got out. I would have loved
to have made it a career, but that one bad decision
based on my emotions, I'm getting out. Forget
y 'all. Wow, so you made it that far that won't
that one moment kind of shifted everything yeah,
and you end up going to the public sector Yeah
this that's interesting so like when Your life
has like just automatically shifted like that
because I mean I would just assume that doing
from what I've heard, like being in the military,
it's, you know, it's no games, you know, you're,
it's really strict, which you said you like,
like how that shift, where were you mentally
when you had to, when you just left the, you
know, the private sector or the, or the army
and all that good stuff to go to the public?
Honestly, I thought I was hot stuff. I was like,
I got the Pentagon on my resume. I'm a military
veteran. Yeah. Yeah. So quickly learned. Folks
don't really care about that. I never did fully
transition successfully from a military, very
structured atmosphere, teamwork. It doesn't matter
if I like you. I've got your back. We don't throw
each other under the bus. That was my experience.
I didn't realize in corporate wasn't the same.
You get to a meeting, your colleague throws you
under the bus and you're like, wait a minute,
we're on the same team. What are we doing here?
So I never fully successfully made that transition
because I liked the idea of the harder I work,
the more I'll be rewarded. Cause it's fair to
me. Like, okay. Oh, it's fair. Oh, competition.
Oh, even better. It's not like that in corporate
America. In corporate America. doesn't matter
how smart you are you know it's not always the
people who are with the most skilled and most
competent who get promoted it was more that likeability
factor which up until that point you know i didn't
even really understand what that was um yeah
so you had to make it you had to make a you had
to make a real mental shift at that point well
so i didn't make it at that point It took me
it took me 20 years to get it because it just
I did I could not comprehend like how was this
person rewarded when they didn't do the work
like I genuinely did not comprehend that so I
would work harder and then I would be criticized
for being you know too disciplined and oh so
and so the people are intimidated by you why
intimidated I didn't mean what why are you intimidated
by me Oh, you just seem angry all the time. No.
If I'm angry, I guarantee you'll know when I'm
angry. Yeah, right. Never. Again, group an environment
where you are a professional 100 % of the time.
And the military just really kind of solidified
that. Oh, I'd never show. Oh, I would never disappoint
my mama like that. I would never disrespect anybody
at work. That's not how I operate. really difficult
for me. I didn't understand why there were always,
there was always feedback about my attitude.
That's my attitude got, I'm killing it. Everybody's
coming to my office. Hey, I just want to run
something by you. Hey, I'd love your input. Hey.
But then I get feedback that, Oh, you seem to
have a chip on your shoulder. A chip on my shoulder.
How do you know that? Yeah. Did you, did you
believe that maybe the whole the time what you
call it but the the angry black woman thing was
was connected to you. You know what's crazy is
that you heard about that a little bit at that
time. But I didn't I thought it was me. I thought
it was me because nobody talked about that. Yeah,
nobody talked about I thought it was me and I
thought I'll work even harder. So I'm already
working 50 hours a week. I'll work 60 hours because
I'm going to prove myself. No matter what, I'm
going to prove myself. And I thought that the
issue was that I just hadn't proven myself yet.
Even though again, I got the CEO coming to my
office after hours. Hey, I just want to get your
input. I got general counsel coming in. Hey,
I wanted to get your input. So wait a minute.
Everybody's coming to me. They put me on all
the projects. All the projects, even outside
of my area. I'm on IT projects. That's weird.
They keep putting me on everything, but I have
a chip on my shoulder. Yeah, right. I didn't
really realize how common it was for black women
to be perceived as angry in a corporate environment
until, oh, I would say maybe the last six years.
Cause nobody talked about, we didn't talk about
it. Yeah That's interesting how that that go
ahead No, I'm gonna say that's interesting how
like Your perception is like I'm just I just
got to prove myself and I work hard hard hard
and harder so that I can prove myself but in
others others perception it was could have been
perceived as the ABW You know, I had a VP tell
me one time She was new to the organization and
I had been there And she calls me cuz she was
my new boss and she goes, you know what? When
I first got here the rest of the team told me
that you were effing know that you were an effing
a know -it -all And she was like they were right.
She's like you're so annoying. I Was like the
way she said it. I thought surely she's not serious.
Like did you just say that to me? And it's like
you just called me enough. So what did I do?
You know what? You're right. I do know a lot.
Yeah. Yeah. Again, you're probably right. I didn't,
I did not realize the dynamic. I didn't realize
the social political dynamic that I was missing,
that likeability factor, that not, that not overshadowing
everybody else. We're in the military. That was
a great thing. Like, oh, Oh, she knows how to
do this. We're going to give her another promotion.
We're going to put her over here. And that, you
know, I'm working two levels below at the Pentagon
in the basement in assignment as a 19 year old.
So now I go somewhere where in my mind, oh, oh,
I can do this. I can do that. I'm solving this
problem. I'm solving this problem. I'm questioning
CFOs. Wait a minute, Rebecca, that doesn't make
sense. Would you shut your face? And again, I
just got it. I'm like, these people are imbeciles.
Like, how did you get this role? And I was very
vocal about it. Yeah. And then, you know, I remember
one senior leader pulled me aside and he was
like, if you don't shut your mouth, he was like,
you, you gonna get your haircut off. And I was
like, yeah. Not me. It didn't matter to you?
It mattered a lot. But again, remember my mindset
is competition. Oh, I thrive in competition.
Oh, I will win. If I don't win, I will be a close
second. I will win. So I still didn't get that
likeability factor. Instead of showing everyone
how competent I was, I should have been spending
time on working on relationship building, on
that likeability factor, not outshining senior
leaders in a meeting. knowing when to open my
mouth, or as Kenny Rogers said, knowing when
to hold them, when to fold them. Shut your mouth,
Monique, because when I say something and a senior
leader looks incompetent, that didn't fare well
for me. But I didn't get that. I just didn't
get that. Put a damper on your shine and what
you actually have to offer the company So it
took for me to get laid off the first time Didn't
even see it coming because again fives five five
five out of five five five five on performance
five I'm getting this assignment in it. You got
a new boss She was like, oh They hired me now.
She was significantly less experienced than I
was. I was like wait, what's going on here? How
is she getting? How'd she get this title? Wait
a minute. Well, it was Came from upon high the
apparent company. But again, I'm thinking oh
You're not gonna come in here outshine me. Well,
yeah Came to work a child showed up. I was like
wait a minute. I could feel the energy was off
What's going on here? She said it's just not
working and got up and walked out of the meeting.
So I'm left there with the HR woman. I said,
what? Wait, what do you mean what? She starts
crying. This is happening to you. This is HR.
We've been working together. They know me. They
know me. If they wanted a question answered,
who'd they come to? Me? She's crying. Security
guard shows up like what what he comes in he
said miss Monique who we walking out That would
be me I suppose He faced his drop. He wouldn't
let me touch a thing. He said I don't want you
to carry everything That's how much respect they
have for me because I know how to work with people.
I work very well with the Union Conflict oh,
that's me all day long. Let's talk about it.
Now. I don't I don't give a rip about this kicking
doors in and Let's get to the root of the problem.
Let's talk about it. I was very good at what
I did. So it took me about five years to get
over that. Getting laid off. I was like laid
off. Now you say it was a first layoff, so it
had to be a new one, yeah? Learned the first
time. Because again, it wasn't performance. It
was just because things weren't working out.
I did not know what that meant. I'm a perfectionist.
I'm a competitor. If I lose, I need to understand
why. So in my mind, I lost. It just so happened
that while I was at that company, before I got
laid off, I had gone to an executive training.
There was a woman who spoke and she said, if
you never get fired, you ain't doing it right.
I was like, I would never be fired. Cause I come,
I'm one of the best. Not me. I remember that
when I got laid off the first time I said, there
might be something to that. So that was the first
time. So still hadn't learned the likeability
part of it, the political part of it. So continued
to operate on all cylinders, just outshining
executives. Which is a natural gear for you.
That's how you showed up, right? Competitive,
baby. If you don't want to compete, I made other
people, and now I realize it, because I've grown
so much. Now I realize that I made other people
uncomfortable because I pushed them too hard.
If you're going to stay up with me, you want
to compete with me, let's go. And people are
like, oh, yeah, no, I don't like this. She's
pushing too hard. She's getting too much done.
You know, like the army, we do more before 9
a .m. than most people do all day. That was me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Team projects. Yeah, you still
on project one. People on my team, I had people
who I had the opportunity to develop. One went
to Google, one went to Coca -Cola. Oh, you're
on my team? Oh, you will be pressed, but you
will learn so much. And they did. And that was
even worse because I'm developing all these,
you know, these young up and coming potentials
and that bothered people. That bothered them,
yeah. You so you're in the space, right? You're
getting laid off. And you're like, what's wrong
with me? Are you in that mentality? Yeah. Yeah.
Like, what am I doing wrong? Me and at one point?
It's probably the work in 70 hours a week. Because
I was dealing with foreign companies that we
deal with on different projects and things like
that. So I had to be up. You know, when it was
morning time in Japan or, you know, France or
work nonstop. I'm at a kid's games. I just got
to work hard. You know, that was supposed to
be watching my kids play and I'm on at the time,
the Blackberry. Oh man, not the Blackberry. Oh,
oh, and people knew. Oh, if you send me an email,
you're getting a response. Started having migraines.
Some of my hair was falling out. Started having
digestive issues. And I just thought, oh, geez,
I'm not working hard enough. And you still think
you're not working hard enough. You know, I was
going to say that because I had Lynette Cottrell
on yesterday, as a matter of fact, and she was
talking about how black women really feel like
they have to prove themselves over and over again,
and it's not sustainable. And then you talk about
the physical things that are happening to you
and the way that you kept doing that, it just
was sustainable for you. You know, I'll be real
transparent. So before that first layoff when
I'm working 60 70 hours Totally disregarded my
kids. My kids were young my husband. There was
one point where my husband told me he said mom
I don't even really like you anymore What do
you mean if you know my husband nicest guy ever
I don't know, that's his problem. That's how
bad it was, y 'all. I'm just being honest. I
was like, no, just get over it. It hurt. But
I was like, oh, he's just being emotional. Let
me get back to this Blackberry. Yeah. Yeah. And
when he said that and you're like, all right,
you know what? You'll get over it. Let me get
back to the Blackberry. What then got you to
realize that you had to make a shift for yourself,
for your sustainability? When I got laid off
the second time. The light shined. Yeah, it was.
I had thought for some reason, so I'm a believer,
for some reason, I always found myself in extremely
toxic organizations. Where I had to protect employees
where I had to stand up to executive leaders
and I had thought at that time that I thought
oh It can't ever get any more toxic than this
The last time whoa, I mean It was it was a demonic
experience. It really was They had bought me
in to replace this executive. She knew it. I
knew it For some reason, they thought she was
gonna be okay with that. She wasn't. Of course.
When I tell you I have never ever been, it was
like Hunger Games. She was always digging, digging,
digging. If I walked down the hallway. Why do
you walk so hard? What, what? So then I tried
to tiptoe. I'm tiptoeing down the hallway. Why
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It was always something. Always something. Because
I wear my hair curly, natural, in the summertime.
And then in the wintertime, I would blow it straight.
First time I blew it straight, she was dumbfounded.
So I'm talking to my team. She comes up and starts
running her fingers through my hair. I don't
understand. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I already know.
I already know. That's a no -no. She was in a
trance. She said, how is your hair this soft?
That's crazy. There are a couple females on my
team, and they all were like... Yeah. Don't touch
my hair. Don't go back. Don't touch my hair.
Oh I mean just I Would be at meetings there was
one meeting that I went to in another state when
I came back She said yeah, I need to talk to
you about the meeting you just had Okay, yeah,
you can't you can't the attitude you had isn't
acceptable What attitude? Well when you told
the team that you were willing to do whatever
it took to work well together And she comes as
attitude when I swear I don't make any of this
stuff up me you're going and even then I was
like, okay I thought that was a good thing. That's
what I do. I'm a collaborator. I want to collaborate.
How can we work well together? Let's Talk about
what the issues are. Let's get through it right
so the last Star broke the camera's back her
and I would go at it because I wasn't scared
of her talk to the CEO Hey, you need to get you
need to get her because I'm not the one Everybody
everybody I Could go on and on about that. There's
somebody on my team. She called him fat and sloppy
He told me he would never be anything. So he
comes in my office crying I go straight to her
office shut the door. You don't need to talk
to anybody on my team He is not fat and sloppy.
Oh No, no, absolutely not. So we're sitting before
the CEO, you know her that she starts crying
You you've been freaking harassing me bullying
me. Why are you crying? I was already familiar
with the tear game. So I just sit here we go
Yeah, here we go. So I mean it was tense. It
was tense Everybody in the office was like, oh
there they go. All right, they could hear us
going at it One night late six o 'clock everybody
gone Her and I just finished going at it. She
follows me into my office. The way my office
was set up, the desk was against the wall so
I could only get in or out one way. So I go to
my desk, grab my purse, turn around, she's right
behind me like this. Are you mad? Are you mad?
She said, are you mad? I swear. I felt a demonic
like get out. I swear I don't make this up. get
out it made that hair it still does makes the
hair on the back of my neck stand up get out
tell her whatever you need to do to get out she
wanted me to hit her i said please move out of
my way i need to go pick my son up from daycare
this is how funny that was at the time my son
wasn't even in daycare okay i said if i'm late
if i'm late they're gonna charge me 50 i just
felt like tell her anything tell her get out
and she just looked i couldn't even see her eyes
they were all black And then she turned to the
side she said, okay Just so you think that she
was trying to get you fired like Just trying
to get me fired she was trying to get me put
in jail. Yeah. Yeah She wanna get rid of you.
Because I was a major threat to her within the
short time I was in. Yeah, I can see that. General
counsel, they're all coming to me. They should
have been going to her. Hey, everybody, CEO.
I walk in, the CEO's like, what's up, mom? She's
standing there like, oh, oh, but guess what?
Out of all the negative things that I've been
through, I learned so much. So nobody can tell
me, oh, it's not toxic. They just don't understand.
No, no, no. I know the game. I know the game.
So after that layoff, if you see pictures of
me, I mean, just black under my eyes, my face
was just... It was a drag for you, like going
through all of that and living that life, having
a family, all that stuff. Was it worth it to
be where you are today? Yes. Because I had to
experience it to understand it. So now I can
protect other people. So now I understand when
people say, in front of everybody else, this
individual leader, whoever, they just love them.
Then when that door closes, baby, when I tell
you, I can't describe, other than demonic. Like
they report up very well, you know Then they
do our clothes is like that scary movie Then
it's all like Donkey Kong and they are freaking
bullies not even a good word for it is demonic
Absolutely to my everything you do is not good
enough. Well, wait a minute You can't even explain
to me what you want then when I do what I think
you want. It's still not good enough It's a game
So I had to experience it in order to understand
what it feels like and to understand all the
little games that go on, the psychological warfare.
It's not obvious. Good bullies aren't obvious.
But I know the game. So now I believe that God
is using those experiences to help me create
a path for other experienced people who have
not been valued or who have been kicked out just
because they were better than everybody else.
That's not a bad thing. That's like, I love it.
I love it. I love competition in a good way.
I want to be around people who are smarter than
I am. Cause guess what? I'm like a sponge. I'm
gonna sit in every meeting. I'm gonna listen
to everything you say. Like, okay, okay. So so
that's that's what I want to do is create like
a a talent collective With people who have 15
20 years of experience But these organizations
just don't know How to use somebody like that?
Yeah, they're a threat They're a threat you have
these people come in and they know more than
your executive folks. That's that's a problem
For someone who's listening Now, what advice
would you give them to really to deal with something
like that? So if someone is in a toxic environment
now, and you're having health issues, I understand
it's easy to say, oh, just leave, find another
job. But for some people, it was hard enough
to get that first job, not because I don't have
the experience. Because I got the experience,
oh, you need a degree? Not a problem. I got three
of them. Which one you want me to bring? So to
say, oh, we'll just quit the job. Everybody doesn't
have that luxury because everybody doesn't have
access to other jobs that would be a promotional
or a lateral move. I couldn't believe how hard
it was for me to get jobs. I was like, I'm a
veteran, law degree, MBA. undergrad. I got all
this experience. I was at the Pentagon. You know
what they would tell me? Oh, wow. Your background
is really impressive. But. Yes, right. Right.
So so I would tell someone if you're in that
position and it isn't easy for you to get another
job. At least start looking. You got to start
putting in the legwork. You have to. It does
have health ramifications. Yeah. Within the legal
community, there were so many sisters that were
dropping dead. I was like, I'm, who, who, who
died? Really? Because you're facing all that
stuff like daily. Daily. And at the time, I had
just taken in my parents and I had a teenage
daughter. So it was a triple threat. So, you're
dealing with a lot. Yes. And the start of menopause.
Yeah, okay. Yeah, I don't know anything about
that, but I have a sister that was going through.
I have a couple of sisters that are going through
it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We've never talked about
it. People don't talk about it. But guess what?
That's chemical. That's those hormonal changes
going on. You don't understand like what? Why
do I feel like this? What? I'm not myself. We
gotta talk about it. It's real. It is real. We
can't just shake it off. Yeah. It's not like
a jacket. Yeah, you can't just shake it off.
It's not just, oh, oh, it's not that bad. Yeah,
okay. Man. So you, you're going through, you
have all this experience, man, and these, these
hills, the climb and valleys that you went through.
And I mean, you had to make a shift at some point
where you kept getting laid off and I know at
some point you were like, you know what? I'm
done with this. I got it. Something has to shift.
When that you made a shift. What was that? So
actually, if I hadn't gotten laid off the second
time, I still would have been trying to prove
myself. How crazy is that? Right? God had to
kick me out. God had to kick me out because I
still would have been trying to prove myself.
I ended up working with an executive coach who
for whatever she just she was tough. Because
I know how to do the smile and okay. Well, nothing's
wrong After our first call. She said I'm surprised.
I have eyebrows left. I said you assert that
you probably found the perfect coach for you
because who you are I? Did she said you're like
a dragon? She said you just brush. She said you're
so angry. She said it comes through the camera
Said oh no angry. She said cut the bull. She
was like you're angry and I was I was, so she
really, she saved my life. I'm not even gonna,
she did. She saved my life because I still would
be trying to prove myself as crazy as that sounds
until she helped me realize that like I'm enough.
I'm more than enough. I had to let that anger
go. I had to forgive those people. That doesn't
mean I like them. I just had to say, you know
what? I gotta let that go. I gotta let that last
woman who was trying to put me in jail, I gotta
let her go. Took me years, I'm not gonna lie.
There were some things in my childhood, you know,
that she helped me realize why, you know, I might
be as spicy as I am. Had to let all that go.
Let it go. Had to release. Had to release. What
opened up for you when that shift happened, when
the transition happened? Yeah. Yeah. I felt it.
It was like a heaviness. It took time. I'm not
saying it was a two -week venture. It probably
took eight, nine months. I started feeling like
myself again. I could think again. My husband's
always telling me, Mo, you're meant to be an
entrepreneur. You're meant to be an entrepreneur.
I was like, nope, nope. Got to get that check
every two weeks. I want to prove it. I don't
care. As an entrepreneur, that's not always the
case, especially in the beginning. No, it's hard.
It's hard, but I didn't have a choice now. It
was right at COVID. That was another thing that
she did. You gonna put me out at the beginning
of a pandemic? That's okay. But that's how I
started consulting. Started my business. I could
think clearly. Now I could work when I wanted
to work. My ideas were heard. I didn't have anything
to prove to anybody. I could move as fast as
I wanted to. And it transformed me. I realized,
oh gosh, my family, is way more important than
a job. So had to rebuild some of those relationships
with my kids. My daughter's in her last year
of college had to, we're still rebuilding. She
was like, mine, you were just so like, I said,
I know, sweetie. All I can do is do better now.
I try to be the best for my husband. I was about
to say, does he like you again? Yeah. He was
real honest. He was like, no, I like you. You're
so energetic. That was another thing. My personality,
I've always been very, and I got so much criticism
that, yes. Well, that's not me. When I could
be me, that lifted that dark, it was like a heavy,
you know, those things you put on when you get
into x -ray, that heavy lead, whatever it is,
check. It was like, I do that. And I was like,
if you don't like me, you think I'm too much.
You think I'm too energetic. You think I'm a
know -it -all. Guess whose problem that ain't.
It ain't mine. That's yours. Right. It ain't
my problem. It's not mine. Yeah. So. Yeah. Now,
you made that shift. And, you know, like many
people are like really searching their whole
lives for the clarity. who they're called and
meant to be. When you went after the executive
coach, did you feel an understanding of what
your calling was and what your purpose is on
the planet? So that is a very deep question because
I think a lot of us got distracted with thinking
we had to go find our purpose. That's not spiritual.
God doesn't say, go find it, figure it out. Hopefully
it works out for you. Mm -hmm. That's that's
not so so I I was I was trying to find my person
because I'm trying to find my person No, our
purpose is to be an example To demonstrate what
he tells us to demonstrate to listen To pray
to seek him diligently. So it took me years to
get past like what is my purpose? What is my
purpose? What is my purpose? What is my purpose?
What? I had time during that but five, six years
since the executive coach to say, okay, Mo, girl,
what are you good at? What are you good at? And
I figured that out. And then I wasn't ashamed
about it. Yeah. If I'm a know -it -all and I
walk in and I'm more experienced than everybody
else in there, again, guess whose problem that
ain't. So then people started recognizing that
going, Hey, wait a minute. Yeah. Good. There
was one potential client I had. He just, during
the meeting, he looked, he goes, I thought I
was good. He said, but you think of solutions
out of the box, unlike anybody I've ever known.
So then you start like, okay, that's my gifting.
That's my gifting. I figure out, I see like the
matrix. I see the confusion, but I see the organization.
Like, oh, this is what we need to fix. This,
this, this, this, this, this, this. Oh, here
are the people who are the problem. Let's unpack
that. Let's talk about that. So through that
whole entrepreneurial journey that I'm still
on, I've discovered more of myself as well as
what I'm not good at. And that's okay. Why am
I going to pursue stuff I'm not good at? It's
a weakness for me. But in a space like you're
more yourself than you've ever been. And how
does that show up for you? I'm curious. I'll
tell you what my mother told me. My mama is 83.
My dad is 90. My mama said, this was a couple
of years ago, she said, you're glowing. You're
glowing. Your eyes are clear. She said, I haven't
seen that in years. I rest when I need to rest.
That was hard for me because I'm... I'm high
octane. I want to be working all the time. Let's
go. Let's go. Let's go. Right, right. I just,
I just felt, I just felt guys saying, no, you
need to rest. You need to let your body recover
from what 20 years of having knives thrown at
you, bombs thrown. You need to recover. It's
how I force myself. Okay, rest. Meditating. That
was huge for me. Meditating. Accepting who I
am and loving me. Yeah. What I'm sensing is there's
like no force, like forcing yourself to be or
to do something that's not aligned with who you
are. I think, well, so like we've already said,
entrepreneurship is tough. So when you are getting
that check every two weeks, and that check isn't
coming every two weeks, then it's a different
level of stress. And you're like, oh, should
I be doing something else? But it takes time.
It takes time to build up your business. And
then I had to learn the sales part. Yeah, I don't
like sales. I can't stand sales. I don't like
it. I do not like it. But like somebody told
me, if you don't sell you, who else is going
to do it? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's a muscle
just like anything else that we do in business.
And you know, it's funny even with you. Like
I would consider us very warm people. But I think
for me, what I don't like is the, the fakeness
of hi, you know, going to an event. I prefer
tonight. If you sit next to me at an event, we're
going to be besties by the end of the night.
Yeah. Yeah. But just that fake kind of, Oh, let's
exchange business cards. Okay. Great. I don't
like, I don't like the fakeness of that. You
know what I found? I don't like it either. Right.
So. I found that when that energy comes my way,
I know who it may be. I find myself either going
some other way or not even having that come my
way because I just, I can't deal with it. I don't
deal with it well. And it does still show up
from time to time, but I'm like, yeah, that's
not it. Because even when I'm in the world of
sales and I do sales, I want to be as genuine
as possible. And I like to just be like, this
is what it is. And you could be a yay or a nay.
And I'm good with whatever, because I'm not beholden
to the outcome. And I just want to just, like,
this is what it is. And whatever the outcome
is, that's what it is. And not to get too woo
-woo on that, but when you're in alignment and
you stop and you listen, You you'll feel that
energy you feel like that this person ain't for
me and you go you exit stage left and it's such
a I can't even don't get me started talking about
just the energies and the attraction when I myself
My energy is just it'll turn off some people
like oh great other people are drawn to me Tell
me more those are the people And that's okay.
That's not a reflection of me. And when I realized
that, I was like, well, okay. I went through
another, it was like a veteran cohort program.
And there was a woman, she was a psychiatrist,
psychologist or something. She was part of working
with the veterans and things. She told me, she
said, you know what the challenge is for you?
Identifying who you work well with. And I was
like, oh, no, I want to work with everybody.
And she's like, no, no, no, no, no. She said,
you need to work with people who are willing
to put in the work. Because if not, you get frustrated.
And she said, there's nothing wrong with that.
Everybody's not for you. Yeah. It's like, who
knew? But she's right. Yeah. She's right. Because
I'm not, I'm not, because. Remember I said earlier,
if you work with me, I'm gonna push you hard.
But guess what? Months later, years later, you're
gonna go, oh my God, who knew? I never thought
I could be doing this. But she pushed me. She
pushed me into what I was meant to do. She helped
me realize my limits. Everybody doesn't want
that. Other people are like, yeah, no, no, no,
no, I don't wanna do the work. Yeah, yeah, that's
not everybody's cup of tea. But you know, but
you've... You've seen results. So like you have
people that you've trained, they go off to different
places, you know, well -known places that they're
doing great things for themselves. Yes. Yes.
And that makes me feel good. That makes me feel
good. That's why I coach kids basketball. Third
and fourth grade boys, seventh and eighth grade
girls. I've coached for years. You know what
I love? I love the kids coming in. They're just,
oh, they can't dribble. They can't. By the end
of the season, we had an undefeated season last
season. What? What? These are boys. You know,
boys are, hey, let's do this thing. If you listen
to me, I promise by the end of the season, we'll
be killing it. Then when they started sending
results, they were like, yeah, I didn't have
to yell anymore. I'd have, I'd be on that, do
your thing, do your thing. And they finger rolling
and I'm like, that's what I love. I love to see
the progress. I love to see people putting in
the work. I'm going to be with you. Every step
of the way. I love the progress. But if you want
to get if you want to Say you want to get in
shape, but you don't want to go to the gym. I
That's not my people But I'm okay with saying
that now because I'm free to be honest, yeah
And in that, like, could you create the space
for yourself in that you attract, like you said,
that you attract the people that will want to
work with you and get the results that they're
really looking for. And you do that in your consulting.
Is it JMCO consulting? So, so I have JMCO consulting,
which I do professional development training.
I had contracts with 40 plus government agencies.
I do conflict training, negotiations, tactical
to strategic thinking. I did all that, but. January
of this year, a lot of those, those federal contracts
fell off, but I started another business with
another veteran, which is that talent collective
I was talking about. Like working with people
to say, what are you really good at? Cause typically
when you have 15, 20 years, you're like, I can
do everything. I believe you. I believe you.
But when you say that people don't know what
that means. Their eyes kind of glaze over. Yeah.
But what are you really good at? So I help people
figure out what are you really good at? And then
how do we package that? And then the next step
is how can we help organizations who know they
need that experience? How can we frame it in
a way that it doesn't cause issues for executives
who may feel intimidated? Can we come in for
90 days? Tell us what the problem is. We'll fix
the problem and then be on our way. That way
nobody feels threatened. You know, there's no
self -preservation fight going on because organizations
need that experience. We just need to figure
out ways that we can provide that experience
without them thinking, you know, it's going,
it's going to cost too much or, oh, you know,
they're not energetic. I don't even know where
that came from. It's 83. She's more energetic
than a lot. The 30, 40 year olds that I see.
So age is okay. I didn't think you were going
to say that. Did I tell you? Oh, mama, 83. Cause
she tells, she said, I don't want to, I don't
want to be an old person just sitting on a couch.
I don't want to be, I don't, I don't want to
be doing it. Yeah. So, you know, all the stereotypes
and it just off. Like that has nothing to do
with age. personal. I mean, you know, so, so
that's what we're trying to build with with Prime
Bridge Solutions. It's just, again, that talent
collective, helping people identify how can you
hold yourself out as an expert in what? Because
we should. And by that many years, yeah. So I'm
working with a woman, she's the COO of a hospital
organization. The conversations are amazing.
What are you good at? Just a lot of things. No,
tell me two things. So we worked through that.
We worked through that. We worked that. We identified
things that you thought you were good at, you're
really not good at, or things that you hate doing.
Okay, let's avoid those things. Yeah. Have another
client. Okay, good. Go ahead, I'm sorry. Now
I was gonna say I have another client who he
would say, oh, I'm good at leadership. Then the
more we talked about it, I said, you don't even
like people. He's like, yeah. Oh, wait. And you're
right. No judgment. No judgment at all. Cause
it's okay. He says, but I feel like I have to
be a good leader if I want to progress in my
career. No, no man. You, you love being in the
back room, you know, computer. You're not a leader
and that's okay. That's okay. So, so it's been
fascinating walking through the professional
journeys with people and then having them realize
like, you know what? I really don't like doing
that. What I really do like doing this, how can
I pivot? Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about that. Well,
I see that first of all, niching down or niching
down, however you want to say it is probably
more ideal for a person because in that you're
like, like you said, what you do like it, what
you don't like. And if you find out what you
do like there can be more fulfillment and you
know, you're just your daily, just in your dailies.
Like, you know, you're fulfilling yourself because
it's something that you love and you're probably
happier. Of course. You find people being happier.
Oh, I can tell the energy shift with my client
who doesn't like people. We finally started figuring
out what he does like and his whole energy has
shifted. I mean, I can see it. He's like, oh
yeah, I want to do that. He said, what do I need
to do for that? Versus when we started out, he
was... Yeah, so, you know, I do this and so that's
how we're developed we're developed to want to
do things that we like we like it for a reason
and if you're good at it even That's it. That's
it. You're gonna enjoy it. Yeah Enjoyment is
key. So what's it? What's the difference in managing
people and leading them in your in your in your
like experience. I saw this at every organization
I was with because the way organizations are
structured, the goal is to become a people manager
for every job role. That's that's out of order
because being a leader is a skill set. I have
seen so many people who were awesome as an individual
contributor and they get put into a leadership
position. and they fail horribly. Leading people,
your role is to develop those people. That takes
work. That takes patience. A majority, I would
say 90 % of the managers and people leaders I
work with, they thought it was HR's job to develop
the people. Or they thought, well, if somebody
wants to be developed, they need to do it themselves.
That's your role. I mean, that goes back to Jesus
discipling the disciples. As a leader, you're
supposed to create leaders. If you're not creating
leaders, you're not doing it right. So I just
think, you know, and then you hear there have
been so many leadership gurus and whatnot. And,
you know, you look at their background and you're
like, have you ever been a leader? But come out
with all of this advice and people love it. They
eat it up. Just go with what, you know? Leadership
advice, like, if you want to be nice, people
will think you're nice. And you're like, that's
your advice? So yeah, that's a whole nother skill
set. Managing people is hard. It is hard. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I'd rather develop leaders. I'd rather
do that. kind of bring this together. You've
coached, you coach, you're still coaching sports
and you're coaching and consulting adults and
business. How do those two worlds come together?
What do they have in common? Especially when
you're building confidence in people's characters.
That right there, building confidence. I'm a
coach. I've always been, even as a kid, like
I want to see you do better. And I mean, that
translates into everything I've done. Like, again,
if you're on my team, oh, we're going to be the
best. I don't do bad news bears. That is not
me. We might start out that way. I don't do that.
But every skill that I've learned just throughout
my coaching, just parenting what I've done wrong,
what I've done better, being able to say I'm
sorry, the way I did at the time, it wasn't the
best I could have done or should have done, but
I'll do better. Being able to go to my husband
and say, I'm sorry, sweetie. Like I'm, I'll do
better. That's all I can do is do better. So,
so the coaching, the consulting, it's all motivational.
You know, I got to tell people, hang in there.
I'm here with you. I'm waiting for you. Even
with the adult, you know, the, the, the, the
one client I have that said that he Thought he
was a good leader. Then he figured out he really
doesn't like people. He said, stay, stay on me.
Stay, stay with me. Stay with me. Cause I don't
want to disappoint you. So you're not going to
disappoint me. I said, you meet me halfway. I'll
meet you the other halfway. Yeah. Yeah. From
where you, from the beginning of our conversation
of the things that you went through and to who
you are now, what's the biggest lesson that you
can. Give someone Just one explain how you want
to explain it First is self -reflection Really
self -reflection What are you doing? What has
it worked? It's just all we can do is develop
ourselves. All we can do is change ourselves
I can't change anybody else. That's one lesson
I can't change anything, but I can change myself.
I can decide if I want to be mean and nasty.
I can decide if I let something that someone
said bother me or I accept a negative comment.
That's my choice. I tell my kids that all the
time. Somebody says something off the wall about
you. It's your choice whether you accept it.
At the end of the day, people go, oh yeah, but
they made me mad. No, they didn't. They can't
control you. That has been a mind blower for
me. I think when you develop yourself in those
spaces and you hear somebody say, well, that
person made me mad. When you hear it, it's like,
wait a minute, how can someone make you mad?
They could probably do things that can make you
mad, but the person that... owns that, that emotion
is you. And you talk about emotional intelligence.
What is, I know it's like a buzzword, but what
is that for you and how do you connect that to
your coaching and your consulting? Okay. So remember
early career, I didn't realize how important
likeability, all that is social, social and emotional
intelligence. I didn't realize how important
it was to develop relationships with people,
to be seen as somebody who Others could work
with I didn't realize that but now that I have
realized it now. I even teach on it That's one
of the courses that I just did one yesterday.
That's part of the conflict resolution When you
can talk to people when you're aware of self
when you understand emotions are a huge part
of communication I can say Michael I just think
you need to do differently Versus hey Michael,
I appreciate the effort you're putting in. I
was thinking that maybe you Could we talk about
doing something different? I said the same thing.
I just said it differently. So understanding
that it matters. It matters what you say, how
you say it. It matters what you say to yourself.
If I'm constantly saying, you're not good enough.
You're not the, you're not the, oh, that was
dumb. You did. What's that words worth? I think
it was your mind is a garden. It's up to you
whether you plant flowers or allow weeds to grow.
So I constantly tell myself, oh, again, I'm very
competitive. You're the best to ever do it. So
what am I telling myself? What am I telling myself?
I'm not valuable. You see, you can't do anything
right now. Just like those negative comments
come to your thoughts. That's when you write
back. Nope. I'm a child of the most high. God
came so that I could have life, have it in abundance
to the overflow. Yeah, but ooh, that bank account
getting low, doesn't matter. God's got my back.
God's gonna bless me into the, you gotta talk
back. It's an active thing there. You gotta talk
back to those negative thoughts. You gotta input
those positive thoughts. You have to, you have
to do that self -reflection. What do I need to
work on? You can't just say, oh, I'm just like
that. Nope. No, let's talk about that. Why are
you just like that? Why are you so angry? Who
are you angry at? let that go what do they say
uh unforgiveness is like drinking poison poison
and expecting someone else to die yeah let it
go right let it go let it go let it go so a lot
of it is just you you are the only person that
contains you and you gotta put the work in. I
can't forget that part. You gotta put the work
in. It's hard work. You gotta put the, it's not
just gonna happen. You have to put the work in,
but it's, oh god, it's worth it. It is so worth
it. My relationships just, I can't, I'll get
emotional. I went from not even being present
mentally. I was there physically. Mentally for
my kids. Now my daughter's calling me all the
time. My son, you know. Feels close. I think
my husband feels closer. Even my mom, my mom,
you know, so much for you because now I'm at
peace. I can take care of my parents. I'm here
for my daughter when she needs my here for my
son. I'm here for my husband. My attitude is
better. Even the pets like Like I said on the
couch and here come the cats they do. Yeah, you
know everybody my family goes. What is it the
cats love you? Because they can feel that they
feel that just that love like I'm I'm I'm operating
in this mode. I'm supposed to I'm supposed to
how can I make a difference? How can I be an
example? And I'm over here talking negative to
myself. I'm mad. I'm frustrated. I'm being mean
nasty to people. That's not being an example.
Yeah. And that's yeah, that's your purpose to
be an example. Before we leave, because I can,
I have so many questions. I mean, we can continue
to go on, but as we begin to wrap up, what's
one thing on your heart that you want to share
with people or let people know as your last words
on this podcast today? You are enough. I don't
care if you've been laid off. fired, can't find
a job for six months, eight months a year, you're
good enough. I know it's hard because that's
how we pay our bills is through our jobs, but
you are good enough and God has something special
for you. You're worth it. You're worth it to
take this time. If you've been laid off and you're
frustrated, you're anxious, take this time to
relax, relax, focus, pray, work on yourself.
Get rest And if I can't even explain you just
to start feeling better you start looking better
You'll start attracting that positive one of
the I just did a post recently about how when
I got laid off the first time I went to the next
interview and I was so angry you could just And
I ended up taking over the interview I was like,
well, I think what you meant to say was that
so needless to say I didn't get called back years
later I was like, oh my god That they could feel
that negative but people can feel that It's the
energy is real when you're frustrated man anxious
and you go to the interview and you know people
can feel that people are like, ooh Coming in
here. It's okay. It's a great take the time to
work on you put the work in because you deserve
it you deserve it You don't keep proving yourself
for for the people who find themselves and the
same like oh my god that was me you feel like
you have to keep you've already proven yourself
you've already proven yourself you've already
proven yourself yeah there you go yeah mo i appreciate
you being on like this has been a good conversation
really cool like like it went i never tried to
dictate where the conversation goes i'll just
have my questions available and then i listen
and There's still so many questions I have for
you. So we might have to do another one, another
part to you. But before we end, I know you have
your businesses. How can someone get in touch
with you? So the easiest one I would say is just
at my JMCO. So January, March, October, Christmas.
Y 'all did that wrong, didn't I? JMCO, January,
March. Christmas, October. So I'm on at January,
March, Christmas, October consulting .com. So
JMU JMCO consulting account. I'm on LinkedIn.
You'll find me Monique Gibson. I'm on Instagram.
Um, yeah. Yeah. And I'm still, I'm still developing
things, you know, cause everything is just kind
of changed in the job market. I'm still building,
developing. And I just want to say to you that
I have seen you just. comes such a long way.
I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you to step
out and do a podcast. You have such a warm and
engaging personality and that God has something
so special for you because you have a heart for
people. So I'm just again, I'm just honored that
you asked me to be on and I just, I love to see
you thrive. I love it. I love it. Cause I know
what you've been through. So I don't want to
get emotional, but Don't get emotional because
you can get emotional. I'm like, I know what
I am. I'm so proud of you. I really I'm so. Thank
you. I appreciate you for the words and just
who you are in the life in the world and in my
life. And I appreciate you for being on here
and just being authentic and sharing yourself.
And at this time, we always ask our audience,
you know, one last question is Based on this
conversation, what's one leadership lesson you've
learned in your own journey or what area in your
life you're ready to grow? And again, Monique,
thank you for being on the podcast. And as we
always say, let's make thriving our new normal.
And I'll see you next week. Thank you.