00:00:00:00 - 00:00:04:10 Speaker 1 So what have happiness? Wasn't something you chased, but something you created every single day, 00:00:04:10 - 00:00:07:02 Speaker 1 no matter what your circumstances are So today 00:00:07:02 - 00:00:11:08 Speaker 1 we're going to talk to Ray, who lived that question for 14 years, traveling the 00:00:11:08 - 00:00:15:03 Speaker 1 globe after letting go of everything familiar his career as bears, 00:00:15:02 - 00:00:16:23 Speaker 1 even his home along the way, 00:00:16:24 - 00:00:18:11 Speaker 1 he discovered six rules for happiness 00:00:18:24 - 00:00:22:04 Speaker 1 leave for like six months or whatever And it turned into, I mean, it's been 00:00:22:04 - 00:00:22:25 Speaker 1 almost ten years, 00:00:22:25 - 00:00:25:26 Speaker 1 which it was the greatest move of my life 00:00:25:28 - 00:00:29:19 Speaker 1 assuming that, you know, that that was the greatest move of your life 00:00:29:18 - 00:00:30:19 Speaker 2 Certainly one of them 00:00:30:21 - 00:00:34:08 Speaker 1 Is certainly one of them Right? Yeah So when somebody's listening 00:00:34:08 - 00:00:38:29 Speaker 1 and they they look at that statement, I wish I lived my life true to myself, 00:00:38:29 - 00:00:40:23 Speaker 1 approach challenges, especially in business 00:00:40:26 - 00:00:43:07 Speaker 2 Yeah The first really thing that impacted 00:00:43:07 - 00:00:44:07 Speaker 1 Massively. I mean, it 00:00:44:07 - 00:00:48:07 Speaker 1 hugely impacted me was when I went into the monastery to do the ten day. 00:00:48:07 - 00:00:51:24 Speaker 2 meditation retreat, because that was the first time I'd 00:00:51:25 - 00:00:53:09 Speaker 2 ever sat in silence 00:00:53:09 - 00:00:59:09 Speaker 2 and was completely still for more than two minutes And I was I was doing it for ten days 00:00:59:09 - 00:01:00:14 Speaker 2 back in the in some ways 00:01:00:14 - 00:01:03:04 Speaker 2 But it just brought me face to 00:01:03:04 - 00:01:05:27 Speaker 1 With my own mind, and I had 00:01:05:27 - 00:01:09:06 Speaker 1 hours and hours every day to see and hear 00:01:09:06 - 00:01:12:04 Speaker 1 the noise inside my own head To the point where 00:01:12:04 - 00:01:13:01 Speaker 1 I could almost 00:01:13:01 - 00:01:21:25 Speaker 1 see it as something separate to me, which actually is But I never seen it as separate to me before I used to believe I was walking around in my life thinking that 00:01:21:24 - 00:01:23:13 Speaker 1 all these thoughts are going on inside me 00:01:23:14 - 00:01:26:09 Speaker 1 It's like me and my thoughts are one and the same thing 00:01:26:09 - 00:01:27:10 Speaker 1 It's clearly not 00:01:27:10 - 00:01:30:15 Speaker 1 And I never really understood that till I did that ten days 00:01:30:15 - 00:01:33:14 Speaker 1 we that can change the way we live, work, and love 00:01:33:14 - 00:01:34:07 Speaker 1 And we're going to 00:01:34:07 - 00:01:35:26 Speaker 1 dive deep into those 00:01:35:26 - 00:01:39:05 Speaker 1 today But what I want to do right now is just kind of weird 00:01:39:05 - 00:01:41:06 Speaker 1 insert this in. But, 00:01:41:06 - 00:01:48:03 Speaker 1 you know, we've been doing this podcast for about a year and we're all over the US, all over the world, really. 00:01:48:03 - 00:01:49:26 Speaker 1 We get, you know, listeners from 00:01:49:26 - 00:01:53:25 Speaker 1 Moscow, from Thailand, from, you know, all the different places. 00:01:53:25 - 00:01:55:21 Speaker 1 But there's one city 00:01:55:21 - 00:02:05:00 Speaker 1 that has been riding with us ever since the beginning, and that's Ashburn. I don't even know where Ashburn is here in the States, 00:02:05:00 - 00:02:10:02 Speaker 1 but someone from Ashburn has been riding with us, and I really want to 00:02:10:02 - 00:02:11:17 Speaker 1 put a shout out there 00:02:11:17 - 00:02:18:18 Speaker 1 to the person that lives in Ashburn that has been listening to the podcast for this whole year and really supporting us. 00:02:18:21 - 00:02:21:12 Speaker 1 First, thank you for supporting us. 00:02:21:12 - 00:02:30:10 Speaker 1 Like everybody else, but not for that specific person, that specific city has been doing has been supporting us from the from the beginning, the inception. And so 00:02:30:10 - 00:02:32:20 Speaker 1 we would like to really, really want to hear from you. 00:02:32:20 - 00:02:36:03 Speaker 1 Like like what, what has this podcast been doing for you? 00:02:36:03 - 00:02:37:15 Speaker 1 How have we supported you? 00:02:37:15 - 00:02:46:16 Speaker 1 The things that we could do better. So I want you to reach out to our email, which is team at the Thrive World Journey. Com, which. 00:02:46:16 - 00:02:49:00 Speaker 2 Is t a m at the. 00:02:49:00 - 00:02:54:16 Speaker 1 Thrive Well journey.com. So again want to say that shout out to you. 00:02:54:18 - 00:03:02:14 Speaker 2 So you don't have a phone in. You know they could call us in. We know we should right. Right. Yeah. And that's Ray Ray a Ray. 00:03:02:14 - 00:03:04:22 Speaker 1 Thank you for being on the podcast. How are you doing? 00:03:04:24 - 00:03:06:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, good. Thanks, Michael. 00:03:06:10 - 00:03:06:28 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:03:06:28 - 00:03:07:20 Speaker 1 We talked, 00:03:07:20 - 00:03:09:22 Speaker 1 just a little bit before the podcast, and and 00:03:09:22 - 00:03:19:17 Speaker 1 and you, you've been everywhere but before we get into your story, Ray, I like what I like to do is kind of start with something intrinsic, kind of. Okay, that takes us beyond the surface. And, 00:03:19:17 - 00:03:25:14 Speaker 1 since we're going to be talking about happiness, like, if you could describe happiness without using the word happy, 00:03:25:14 - 00:03:26:05 Speaker 1 what would you say? 00:03:26:05 - 00:03:28:23 Speaker 2 I could just say what it is for me. For me, it's, 00:03:28:23 - 00:03:40:03 Speaker 2 a feeling of being at peace deep inside with whatever is happening in any circumstance where I can just be at peace with what's happening without judging it or 00:03:40:03 - 00:03:42:28 Speaker 2 with, you know, with, with less worry 00:03:42:28 - 00:03:45:01 Speaker 2 being. That's how that's how I describe it. 00:03:45:03 - 00:03:50:17 Speaker 1 Is how you describe it. I think that's that's a great description. It's a it's a great way of being. I think, 00:03:50:17 - 00:03:53:29 Speaker 1 I was listening to your response here. And for me, 00:03:53:29 - 00:04:00:15 Speaker 1 I think that's what it is for me to like, if I'm in any situation that's maybe not ideal for me, 00:04:00:15 - 00:04:04:02 Speaker 1 mentally or what? I think a situation of circumstance should be. 00:04:04:05 - 00:04:06:14 Speaker 1 It's really still being at peace. 00:04:06:17 - 00:04:07:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:04:07:13 - 00:04:09:00 Speaker 1 And having that peace. 00:04:09:02 - 00:04:20:24 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, there are things that happen in our lives that are really sad. You know, right now, I'm aware that someone I know is quite elderly is going to pass away very shortly. And it's course it's sad. Yeah, but 00:04:20:24 - 00:04:30:27 Speaker 2 we can choose whether or not we can witness that sadness and experience that sadness in a peaceful way, or whether we can do it in a kind of agitated and noisy mental way. 00:04:31:25 - 00:04:32:27 Speaker 1 That's a choice. 00:04:33:00 - 00:04:34:16 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a choice. Yeah, 00:04:34:16 - 00:04:44:19 Speaker 2 but it's still sad. There's no question about that. I'm not trying to make any listeners believe sad things don't occur. They do them as part of life, and we're born for that. So it's going to happen. 00:04:44:21 - 00:04:46:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, I heard that. Yeah. 00:04:46:12 - 00:04:49:17 Speaker 1 I mean, in, in your early life, 00:04:49:17 - 00:04:51:12 Speaker 1 I had when I was doing research, I was like, 00:04:51:12 - 00:04:52:12 Speaker 1 right. Who was wrong? 00:04:52:19 - 00:04:53:09 Speaker 2 Let me find out. 00:04:53:16 - 00:04:54:07 Speaker 1 Right, right. 00:04:54:07 - 00:04:55:24 Speaker 1 And you have 00:04:55:24 - 00:05:00:16 Speaker 1 an extraordinary story Like we're going to definitely get into it, but I really want to start, 00:05:00:16 - 00:05:01:11 Speaker 1 you're from London, 00:05:01:11 - 00:05:02:05 Speaker 1 right? Yeah 00:05:02:08 - 00:05:03:13 Speaker 2 Just outside Yeah 00:05:03:15 - 00:05:05:04 Speaker 1 Just outside of London And 00:05:05:04 - 00:05:09:20 Speaker 1 if I sum in this conversation somehow, some have a, 00:05:09:20 - 00:05:13:10 Speaker 1 London accent, an English accent It's not on purpose 00:05:13:12 - 00:05:14:17 Speaker 2 Okay? I'm just never 00:05:14:17 - 00:05:15:19 Speaker 2 right No problem 00:05:15:22 - 00:05:16:05 Speaker 1 Something 00:05:16:05 - 00:05:16:23 Speaker 1 might just 00:05:16:23 - 00:05:18:04 Speaker 1 just kind of slip up. 00:05:18:04 - 00:05:19:21 Speaker 1 Trying to sound like I'm English. 00:05:19:21 - 00:05:22:14 Speaker 1 Because my last name, Bert, is an English last name, so. 00:05:22:17 - 00:05:24:24 Speaker 2 Yeah, it is. And that was the character name of 00:05:24:24 - 00:05:29:02 Speaker 2 Dick Van Dike and Mary Poppins and Bert Oh, yeah 00:05:29:04 - 00:05:29:12 Speaker 1 But, 00:05:29:12 - 00:05:30:10 Speaker 1 you were, 00:05:30:10 - 00:05:32:10 Speaker 1 you I mean, you had a lot of things going for you 00:05:32:10 - 00:05:32:28 Speaker 2 And 00:05:32:28 - 00:05:33:24 Speaker 2 when you. 00:05:34:01 - 00:05:34:21 Speaker 1 Were like, 00:05:34:21 - 00:05:39:16 Speaker 1 you were building your company, you're you're an award, see? Award winning CEO 00:05:39:23 - 00:05:40:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:05:40:06 - 00:05:45:21 Speaker 1 You're kind of at the top of your field What is it? What is an award winning CEO? What is that, first of all? 00:05:45:23 - 00:05:47:24 Speaker 2 Well, yeah, I mean, what it looks 00:05:47:24 - 00:05:48:13 Speaker 2 like 00:05:48:21 - 00:06:05:00 Speaker 2 specifically is like in America, you have The New York Times or the Wall Street Journal. These are very reputable newspapers. We have a one called The Daily Telegraph in Britain. It's very well known, well read by even Americans I think. Well every year they, they have an awards. 00:06:05:00 - 00:06:10:13 Speaker 2 Event where they choose business leaders and people from the world of business to, to recognize and acknowledge. 00:06:10:13 - 00:06:37:03 Speaker 2 And in 2002, I was selected for the Business Leader of the year award for a small to medium sized business in England. And I received the award from them. And I got lots of press in the newspaper and lots of accolades and nice, you know, kind of recognition and admiration. And it was lovely. And it was great because I had a vision when I started my own business to build a company that I and all the people in it could be proud of something. 00:06:37:03 - 00:06:50:29 Speaker 2 We could be really feeling good in our hearts, and we done something beautiful for the world of business. And we did. And so it was truly a reflection of that vision and intention. So I was very, very happy about that. 00:06:51:01 - 00:06:58:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. And yeah, I was listening to you on some other podcast, I think you had a you were on Regina Meredith, which. 00:06:58:13 - 00:06:59:05 Speaker 2 I, and that's from. 00:06:59:05 - 00:07:03:17 Speaker 1 Joyed her podcast. But you guys had known each other for, for quite some time. 00:07:03:17 - 00:07:06:12 Speaker 2 Yeah. I knew Regina because she was married to a close friend of mine. So, 00:07:06:12 - 00:07:07:21 Speaker 2 you have through that link. 00:07:07:24 - 00:07:24:26 Speaker 1 And she knew you. She knew your story. She was very familiar with your story. And so I want to kind of start there before we get into, like, who you are today. And. Yeah, the greatness that you're bringing, the people that I know that, you know, you had basically like a wave of loss, you know, your your marriage, your business. 00:07:24:28 - 00:07:27:16 Speaker 1 Who was your business partner as well? Right. 00:07:27:16 - 00:07:30:27 Speaker 1 And then your father, can you just kind of go into that story a little bit? 00:07:30:27 - 00:07:34:20 Speaker 1 Because I think it can help set up, set the tone for. 00:07:34:22 - 00:07:53:11 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, I cater. Yeah, yeah. So I started a business and my business partner who helped me create the company, we did it together as a what was a partnership was actually my life partner, the woman I was gonna eventually be married to. Yeah. And so the two of us were husband and wife management team of the company. 00:07:53:11 - 00:08:16:26 Speaker 2 And we worked together for ten years, and we built this business together, and we did it really well. We were brilliant as a team and it was fantastic. I had this funny feeling for some of those years that I sort of felt sometimes that I was living a life that others expected of me, and not the life I truly wanted to be living as much as I like being a CEO and I liked all the trimmings, I didn't 00:08:16:26 - 00:08:22:20 Speaker 2 feel 100% like it was what I really, really wanted to be using my energy in life for. 00:08:22:21 - 00:08:35:17 Speaker 2 But I never spoke about it because I was always too embarrassed to go and moan to others about that when they would say, well, what's wrong? You know you've got everything in your life brilliant. You got lots of money, success, great partner for you. 00:08:35:17 - 00:08:36:12 Speaker 1 At that time when. 00:08:36:12 - 00:08:36:22 Speaker 2 You had 00:08:36:22 - 00:08:42:13 Speaker 2 in my in my mid-thirties, well, that late sort of late 30s, late 30s, early 40s 00:08:42:13 - 00:08:42:26 Speaker 2 and 00:08:42:26 - 00:08:47:21 Speaker 2 and so that used to bug me and I just used to put it to one side and think there was something wrong with me. And, 00:08:47:21 - 00:08:57:11 Speaker 2 but then one day, after about ten years, my, my wife came back from a business meeting and she'd been to just very suddenly said, I'm leaving you and I'm leaving the company. 00:08:57:13 - 00:09:17:14 Speaker 2 And it was a real shock because I didn't see that coming. I had no sense of it being there, being a problem or anything like that. And it just really like, was someone torpedoing a hole. It like the Titanic hitting an iceberg. Yeah. I remember that moment. I realized, even though it wasn't going to happen immediately, that everything was going down. 00:09:17:16 - 00:09:34:05 Speaker 2 At the same time that happened, my father got very ill and he a few months later passed away. And that was going on at the same time. And of course, the end of my marriage meant I was out of my home, which we had together, and the company was inevitably going to change because she was no longer to be part of it. 00:09:34:07 - 00:09:36:05 Speaker 2 She was very critical member of the team. 00:09:36:05 - 00:09:36:16 Speaker 2 And, 00:09:36:16 - 00:09:55:24 Speaker 2 and so I just it just threw me into disarray and I felt like I was standing in a bomb crater looking around 360 degrees. All this damage around me getting lost, you know? What do I do? I feel very you do. Right? I feel really lost and broken. And then I followed that with about a year of being quite depressed, if I'm honest. 00:09:55:26 - 00:10:05:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I didn't really know what to do. But then eventually a friend said to me, have you thought about going away for a few months, maybe a six month sabbatical or something like that? 00:10:05:10 - 00:10:05:22 Speaker 2 And, 00:10:05:22 - 00:10:09:24 Speaker 2 that was I'd never thought of that originally. It kind of made sense. 00:10:09:24 - 00:10:12:06 Speaker 2 And so I thought, yeah, that would be a good thing to do. 00:10:12:06 - 00:10:32:24 Speaker 2 I've got money saved up. I'm okay. I could take that time out and just really reflect. I was in life. I was 44, 45. I thought perhaps this is a good time to reflect and make decisions about what to do next. And then I, I don't know if you ever heard of it, Michael, but I read this amazing book called the The Top Five Regrets of the Dying 00:10:32:24 - 00:10:34:09 Speaker 2 by Bronte, where. 00:10:34:12 - 00:10:35:21 Speaker 1 I've heard of it and I've had. 00:10:35:23 - 00:10:53:11 Speaker 2 A lot of people mention this book, and it certainly had a big impact on me because she talks. I mean, she works in hospice and she only talks to people in the last few days of their lives. And she says, I asked them all the same question, what do you most regret about your life? She said, I could tell you they all say exactly the same five answers. 00:10:53:11 - 00:11:03:09 Speaker 2 It doesn't matter who they were or how rich or poor what they did. Always the same. Five and the number one regret that everyone says that I. What do you think it would be? Any idea? 00:11:03:11 - 00:11:09:12 Speaker 1 Oh well, I would know because I did research on you. It's basically I wish I lived my life true to myself. 00:11:09:14 - 00:11:28:10 Speaker 2 Correct? Yeah, absolutely. I wish I'd live my life true to myself. When I read that, I thought, oh my God, you know, I've been thinking so much over the last few years. I'm not really living my life true to myself. What if I just took a complete break and went to explore on a quest? What does living true to myself actually look like and feel like for me? 00:11:28:14 - 00:11:30:24 Speaker 2 What would that be? Instead of the life I've got? 00:11:30:24 - 00:11:39:16 Speaker 2 And so that book really inspired me to take that leap. And I had nothing to lose because I've lost everything already. So I really was at my wits end at that point. 00:11:39:18 - 00:11:40:15 Speaker 1 You know what? I 00:11:40:15 - 00:11:43:06 Speaker 1 want to stop at that point, just just for a second. 00:11:43:06 - 00:11:44:10 Speaker 1 Because I think when. 00:11:44:12 - 00:11:45:10 Speaker 1 When somebody 00:11:45:10 - 00:11:48:03 Speaker 1 gets to really look at their life right now, 00:11:48:03 - 00:11:49:23 Speaker 1 that's listening or watching, 00:11:49:23 - 00:11:54:27 Speaker 1 and take that that statement, I wish I lived my life true to myself. 00:11:54:27 - 00:11:56:13 Speaker 1 You chose to do that? 00:11:56:13 - 00:12:05:28 Speaker 1 You kind of. You didn't double down on the security that you had, but you you just kind of left and, Yeah, you said, you know, no more six months turned into 14 years. 00:12:06:00 - 00:12:06:24 Speaker 1 A person, right? 00:12:06:24 - 00:12:10:24 Speaker 2 I never thought it would. By the way, that was completely not not expected. 00:12:10:27 - 00:12:11:24 Speaker 1 That was it. 00:12:11:27 - 00:12:16:21 Speaker 2 It was unexpected. I mean, I really thought I was going to go for six months just to make that really clear. 00:12:16:23 - 00:12:19:21 Speaker 1 Well, like I said at the top before, you know, before we, 00:12:19:21 - 00:12:31:11 Speaker 1 start push record, I said the same. I told you same thing like I was. I left Los Angeles and I was expecting to leave for like six months or whatever And it turned into, I mean, it's been almost ten years, 00:12:31:11 - 00:12:32:24 Speaker 1 about ten years now. 00:12:32:28 - 00:12:37:05 Speaker 1 And which I, which it was the greatest move of my life 00:12:37:07 - 00:12:37:15 Speaker 1 And, 00:12:37:15 - 00:12:38:07 Speaker 1 and I'm 00:12:38:07 - 00:12:42:20 Speaker 1 assuming that, you know, that that was the greatest move of your life 00:12:42:22 - 00:12:43:27 Speaker 2 Certainly one of them 00:12:43:29 - 00:13:02:14 Speaker 1 Is certainly one of them Right? Yeah So when somebody's listening and they they look at that statement, I wish I lived my life true to myself, but they're having this, this, this battle, you know, they're in a situation or circumstances that they created. But when they stop being looked up and they're like, wait a minute, 00:13:02:14 - 00:13:03:22 Speaker 1 do I really want this? 00:13:03:24 - 00:13:11:12 Speaker 1 You know, what do you say to somebody that's really in that, in that my mind frame or in that, that that critical moment for their life? 00:13:11:15 - 00:13:28:21 Speaker 2 Well, the first thing I would say would be to empathize and say, yeah, I really understand being in that dilemma without trying to fix it or anything. I would just say, yeah, I really understand that some of us end up there. It's nobody's fault. It's just that we're conditioned by everyone around us when we're growing up, 00:13:28:21 - 00:13:34:25 Speaker 2 who helps us kind of define the can off the shelf life story version of what happiness is like. 00:13:34:25 - 00:13:52:03 Speaker 2 In my case, my parents and my teachers told me, right, if you're going to be happy when you're an adult, you need a good job, a wife, a mortgage, a house. Yeah, this is all of those things add up to happiness. You don't get those, you won't be happy. So I've obviously taken the brief from those people I trust. 00:13:52:05 - 00:13:56:14 Speaker 2 I've got no ability as an eight year old to question whether that's true or not. And, 00:13:56:14 - 00:14:14:14 Speaker 2 and so I just get on with doing those things and that's what we all do. So it's kind of it's no one's done anything wrong. It's it's fair enough. But then some of us reach a point when we really are feeling more and more adrift from the person we feel we are on the inside and the person who's acting on the outside. 00:14:14:17 - 00:14:36:04 Speaker 2 Another friend of mine called Ralph Adams, he wrote a brilliant book called The Suited Monk, and he talks about the inner monk inside us and the suit we wear on the outside, which is our professional vocation. And I love that split. You know, it's a really clear split. And so I think being happy means aligning your inner monk with your outside work. 00:14:36:04 - 00:14:52:21 Speaker 2 I mean I've got an older brother. When we were little kids, me and my brother, we spent all of our school holidays going to watch airplanes at airports. My brother's up there and I liked them, but he bloody loved them. He was obsessed. And when he left school, guess what he did? He became a pilot and he's just retired. 00:14:52:21 - 00:15:01:01 Speaker 2 And he never did anything else except fly airplanes his entire life. And he went to work every day like the happiest person I can ever. 00:15:01:01 - 00:15:10:13 Speaker 2 That was in love. Yeah, because he was doing what he loved to do every day. He got really well paid for it, ironically, because being a pilot, you know, is a high paid job. 00:15:10:15 - 00:15:17:27 Speaker 2 And so he did actually well financially too. But it wasn't it wasn't what motivated by that. Just that was a coincidence. 00:15:17:29 - 00:15:18:22 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:15:18:25 - 00:15:19:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:15:19:08 - 00:15:27:22 Speaker 1 So it's really touching what's like the intrinsic love that you have for something and allowing that to. 00:15:27:24 - 00:15:45:20 Speaker 2 Your values and your vision of the things that it touches into. That's why you've got to have self-awareness, because you've got to know what's important to you. And we all know that because not because we sit or think about it every day. But if someone lies to us and we've got a value of truth, we feel it in our body immediately. 00:15:45:22 - 00:16:03:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. So we all know what's important to us. We just don't necessarily articulate it very clearly, but we know it when it happens. We know when we're at, our values are violated and we know when our values are being really reflected back to us through kindness or through someone really being there for us and supporting us. We know that too. 00:16:03:06 - 00:16:04:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:04:12 - 00:16:04:25 Speaker 2 So 00:16:04:25 - 00:16:10:26 Speaker 2 I encourage people to really reflect and deeply on their values and identifying them. 00:16:10:28 - 00:16:13:03 Speaker 1 Start identifying what that is for them. Yeah. 00:16:13:03 - 00:16:16:04 Speaker 1 So was so you start your journey in 2005 or was it? 00:16:16:05 - 00:16:19:05 Speaker 2 I left England in 2005 for my six month sabbatical. 00:16:19:05 - 00:16:33:04 Speaker 1 Or your six month sabbatical that turned into a 14 year. Yeah. That's right. And so from from from what I'm seeing here is you went from London to Shanghai, New York, and. Yeah, the Himalayas, the, 00:16:33:04 - 00:16:39:08 Speaker 1 was that where was that specific, like you specifically chose those places or how did that how did that. 00:16:39:10 - 00:16:53:23 Speaker 2 Kind of kind of, you know, like if you take your dog for a walk in the park and you let it off the leash, dogs, they don't walk in a straight line to a specific point. They kind of go, I kind of sniff their way around the meander and they kind of. 00:16:53:24 - 00:16:54:11 Speaker 1 Right, right. 00:16:54:12 - 00:17:13:19 Speaker 2 Follow the scent of things and they chop and change. And that was kind of like my journey, okay? I was kind of doing it. Yes. There was some vague intention to go to Thailand and Laos and Cambodia because I thought they would be interesting countries to be in. But I was also talking to travelers on the way and one would say, well, have you thought about doing this? 00:17:13:19 - 00:17:27:11 Speaker 2 Like, I know I'm and like, okay, I'm going to come with you and do that, you know, well, that sounds interesting. Or some guy said to me, do you want to go into a monastery and do a ten day meditation retreat? And I thought, I never thought that before. I thought, yeah, that sounds brilliant. I'd love to do that. 00:17:27:14 - 00:17:35:19 Speaker 2 So I did. So I had the chance because I had no targets or goals or obligations to anyone. I had the chance to do those things. 00:17:35:21 - 00:17:37:26 Speaker 1 Yeah. You're backpacking through life? 00:17:37:28 - 00:17:53:29 Speaker 2 Yeah. It was, I really was. And it was beautiful. It was, it was. It was the first time in my life and I was 45 when I started. So it's the first time in 45 years I'd given myself that permission to just do what? Whatever I wanted to do. That questioning anybody. 00:17:54:01 - 00:17:56:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, I was, I was actually, 00:17:56:25 - 00:18:03:26 Speaker 1 I mean, I've been around the world, you know, I've with sports and, you know. Yeah, education and things like that. But there was a point where, 00:18:03:26 - 00:18:06:08 Speaker 1 I was just going to just like drop everything, 00:18:06:08 - 00:18:09:11 Speaker 1 Australia was going to place. I was going to go, I don't know why I choose, 00:18:09:11 - 00:18:11:13 Speaker 1 Australia was like, no, you can't go. 00:18:11:16 - 00:18:15:12 Speaker 1 But then I had, you know, my kidney issues and yeah, kind of taken out. 00:18:16:07 - 00:18:25:17 Speaker 1 But I still have that plan. I don't know when I turned maybe 55. I have no idea. And I might just do that, you know, just to kind of let everything go, because I think sometimes, you know, 00:18:25:17 - 00:18:35:22 Speaker 1 that can be just just going on that adventure. Yeah. Can really bring just a whole different perspective on, you know, who you are and what you bring to the world. 00:18:35:24 - 00:18:38:01 Speaker 2 Yeah. Do you have family? You have kids. 00:18:38:03 - 00:18:39:02 Speaker 1 I know kids, 00:18:39:02 - 00:18:40:28 Speaker 1 it's like it's almost like I have kids. 00:18:40:28 - 00:18:46:19 Speaker 1 I have nephews and nieces and nephews. Always been there time? Yeah. House. 00:18:46:19 - 00:18:47:06 Speaker 1 And, 00:18:47:06 - 00:18:51:27 Speaker 1 it's like, you know, it's like I'm a dad. Yeah. Interim. 00:18:51:29 - 00:18:52:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:18:52:19 - 00:18:57:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. So no, I so I, I don't really have any ties except for business. 00:18:57:03 - 00:19:01:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. And that's it. So I can go anyone anytime I wanted to. 00:19:01:03 - 00:19:04:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. Got you got. Yeah. Yeah. I, I see you. 00:19:04:15 - 00:19:07:06 Speaker 1 I mean, you went to all these different cities. 00:19:07:06 - 00:19:08:26 Speaker 1 Was there one place like that 00:19:08:26 - 00:19:13:10 Speaker 1 that really? And that journey that shifted how you saw yourself? 00:19:13:12 - 00:19:19:01 Speaker 2 And. Yeah, I'd say so. I think the place where I really started, I feel to really feel at home and 00:19:19:01 - 00:19:39:12 Speaker 2 change the most was in Chiang Mai in Thailand. Because I like I wasn't just a tourist there. I actually took up an a, a small room in the guesthouse on a semi-permanent basis and started to get into Vo with the community that was living there, because there's lots of foreigners who live in all of these places. 00:19:39:14 - 00:19:51:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. If you go to any place in Asia, you'll find massive groups of Brits, Germans, French, Americans. There's loads and loads of people that live outside their home countries. These days. That's quite normal because everyone can work on the internet. 00:19:51:15 - 00:19:58:15 Speaker 2 Visas are easy to obtain. It's all done online. You know, generally it's quite easy to be more mobile in the world apart from when there's a pandemic. 00:19:58:15 - 00:19:59:16 Speaker 2 Of course, when it isn't. 00:19:59:16 - 00:20:04:23 Speaker 2 But outside of that, you know, it's pretty easy. And so and so I was yeah, I was living, 00:20:04:23 - 00:20:06:11 Speaker 2 outside, outside of, 00:20:06:11 - 00:20:08:24 Speaker 2 the UK in Chiang Mai. I was, 00:20:08:24 - 00:20:16:05 Speaker 2 meeting some wonderful travelers and people there who are into all sorts of sort of personal growth programs of, 00:20:16:05 - 00:20:17:28 Speaker 2 learning about spirituality, 00:20:17:28 - 00:20:18:26 Speaker 2 yoga, 00:20:18:26 - 00:20:21:18 Speaker 2 how to be happy, how to accomplish, 00:20:21:18 - 00:20:23:01 Speaker 2 your dreams, things like that. 00:20:23:01 - 00:20:42:11 Speaker 1 Hey there. Look, my hope is that. That the rival journey meet you exactly where you are and helps you rise into who you're here to be. It's 2025, and this is your year to thrive. Despite what the world is throwing at us. And our desire is that our conversations inspire you bring clarity and give you a reason to breathe deeper. 00:20:42:11 - 00:21:06:00 Speaker 1 So our ask is that you take a moment to subscribe. Download episode and follow us on your favorite RSS platform. Your support doesn't just help the show grow. It helps build a space that's rooted in your evolution. And that means everything to me and the TJ team. Now, if you're ready to go beyond the episodes, come join our private thrive Will journey discussion group on Facebook. 00:21:06:02 - 00:21:19:28 Speaker 1 We're walking through a 22 week series built to anchor each week an intention, purpose, and meaningful connection. I do so look forward to hearing your voice and can't wait to see you in the group. But for right now, let's get into it. 00:21:20:04 - 00:21:42:25 Speaker 2 And I, I love being in that community and talking about those things and sharing with people about my thoughts about those things, and really learning how to. And of course, I was trying to heal parts of myself from a marriage that failed. And I saw a lot of that failure was down to parts of me that were really stuck, and real negative patterns of behavior that I'd learned as a child, which 00:21:42:25 - 00:21:47:13 Speaker 2 were no longer serving me as an adult and were actually quite destructive in my relationships. 00:21:47:16 - 00:22:02:15 Speaker 2 But I never really had a chance to really sit and reflect and look at those and start to alter the way I dealt with situations like that. And in Chiang Mai, I found a lot of people that can help you with that and help me understand how to improve myself. Really. 00:22:02:18 - 00:22:09:02 Speaker 1 So I mean, you went exploring, you know, throughout the world, but you really start to explore yourself, you know, in these. 00:22:09:08 - 00:22:09:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:22:09:25 - 00:22:11:29 Speaker 1 And things. And you said, you know, you're the person who, 00:22:11:29 - 00:22:17:06 Speaker 1 the I can hear what I just wrote, but basically the personal reinvention of yourself. Yeah. 00:22:17:08 - 00:22:17:17 Speaker 2 That's what 00:22:17:17 - 00:22:37:16 Speaker 2 and yeah, go ahead. I was, I was going to say and not just in our work, but, you know, I while I was traveling, I started writing a blog because in the 2005, it was pretty Facebook ties that didn't even exist. And there was no social media website. So the only way of staying in touch with the rest of the world was to write a blog and that was what was happening at the time. 00:22:37:18 - 00:23:02:24 Speaker 2 So I wrote a blog. I started a blog called. The first one was called The Daily Lama, which was a play on the Dalai Lama and the Dalai Lama and that attracted quite a few readers because it was quite a funny, tongue in cheek, irreverent writing style. And then and then I stopped doing that and started a blog called The Daily Explorer, where I was being interviewed constantly by the editor of this magazine called Mozzie Bites. 00:23:02:27 - 00:23:09:07 Speaker 2 And he was he would write where he would write today, right. This week, Ray is in Lao Sink. 00:23:09:07 - 00:23:26:04 Speaker 2 You know, I was in Cambodia and this is where I caught up with him and asked him what he's up to. And then I'd be quoted in the article saying what I was doing. And so I found writing in the third person just gave me more permission to be cheeky, rude, insulting, and all these things because I wasn't the writer. 00:23:26:06 - 00:23:44:17 Speaker 2 I actually was, of course, but it didn't appear like I was right. So I never did any writing like this before. Michael. So this journey started honing my skills as a writer. I didn't know how to. I didn't even know I had a talent for writing that, to be honest. But I discovered I did, you know, so and so. 00:23:44:17 - 00:23:48:08 Speaker 2 I was on a creative journey as well as an inner journey. 00:23:48:10 - 00:23:50:15 Speaker 1 And you wrote a book and we'll talk about in a little bit. 00:23:50:18 - 00:23:51:29 Speaker 2 But yeah, you you. 00:23:51:29 - 00:23:53:26 Speaker 1 Love playing with words because I know your, 00:23:53:26 - 00:23:55:06 Speaker 1 Dave, your book, 00:23:55:06 - 00:23:55:19 Speaker 2 Life like, 00:23:55:19 - 00:23:56:04 Speaker 2 yeah. 00:23:56:07 - 00:24:03:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. Which I'm sure you know, you leaving the kind of the business world, the corporate. 00:24:03:03 - 00:24:04:06 Speaker 2 World with the necktie. 00:24:04:06 - 00:24:05:10 Speaker 1 Yeah, with the necktie. 00:24:05:15 - 00:24:09:14 Speaker 2 And there's also the four ties of life, which we'll come back to when you're ready. 00:24:09:16 - 00:24:12:04 Speaker 1 Yes, we will definitely come back to that. And, 00:24:12:04 - 00:24:16:14 Speaker 1 So, like, you were doing the daily exploring I see here. Yeah. 00:24:16:14 - 00:24:20:06 Speaker 1 How did your mindset change when you, like, really started to shift? 00:24:20:06 - 00:24:22:24 Speaker 1 The and approach challenges, especially in business 00:24:22:27 - 00:24:46:02 Speaker 2 Yeah The first really thing that impacted me massively, I mean, hugely impacted me was when I went into the monastery to do the ten day Vipassana meditation retreat, because that was the first time I'd ever sat in silence and and was completely still for more than two minutes And I was I was doing it for ten days right back in the in some ways 00:24:46:02 - 00:25:03:03 Speaker 2 But it just brought me face to face with my own mind. And I had hours and hours every day to see and hear the noise inside my own head, to the point where I could almost see it as something separate to me, which actually is. 00:25:03:03 - 00:25:10:15 Speaker 2 Yeah, but I never seen it as separate to me before. I used to believe I was walking around in my life thinking that all these thoughts are going on is me. 00:25:10:17 - 00:25:29:03 Speaker 2 It's like me and my thoughts are one and the same thing, and it's clearly not. And I never really understood that. So I did that ten days and I saw how powerful my what a tight grip of control my mind has on me. It's like an autopilot. It's like it's like whatever is going to go on in front of you. 00:25:29:03 - 00:25:36:01 Speaker 2 Someone's going to upset you or annoy you. Your autopilot is going to kick in and tell you exactly how to react. You got no choice. 00:25:36:01 - 00:25:48:10 Speaker 2 And I discovered that I did actually have a choice and I could choose a completely different response, but I. I never knew that before. So that definitely massively started to change how I was living. 00:25:48:12 - 00:25:51:25 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's what first of all, like, that's one of the things that, 00:25:51:25 - 00:26:06:07 Speaker 1 begin began to shift the way that I lived my life and how my relationships shifted as well, because I just through the the journey of personal development and things like that. 00:26:06:07 - 00:26:07:17 Speaker 1 I just begin to realize, like, 00:26:07:17 - 00:26:10:15 Speaker 1 my thoughts are not me. Like, I'm not my thoughts. 00:26:10:22 - 00:26:11:07 Speaker 2 That show. 00:26:11:07 - 00:26:20:25 Speaker 1 Up, right? Yeah. That doesn't mean that I get mad at somebody or. And the thought of me getting mad at somebody that I have to react in a certain way. 00:26:20:27 - 00:26:22:16 Speaker 2 Yes. And that's that's that's. 00:26:22:16 - 00:26:23:24 Speaker 1 A game changer for people. 00:26:23:26 - 00:26:35:15 Speaker 2 It is a massive game changer because what it does is it gives you more choices, right? Yeah. When you're reacting, you've got no choice. Your own, your autopilot is driving you. It's doing it for you. And, 00:26:35:15 - 00:26:35:24 Speaker 2 you know, 00:26:35:24 - 00:26:43:07 Speaker 2 coming back to my earlier when my brother was a commercial pilot, you know, they were flying those airplanes mostly with the autopilot on all the time. 00:26:43:13 - 00:26:50:03 Speaker 2 So that was taking the plane off, landing the plane, flying the plane, you know, actually doing that much apart from monitoring it. Yeah. 00:26:50:03 - 00:26:56:02 Speaker 2 But once in a while, they have to turn off the autopilot to prove they can still fly the actual thing themselves. You know. 00:26:56:02 - 00:26:57:01 Speaker 1 That's why, 00:26:57:01 - 00:27:03:18 Speaker 1 I just just just thinking, like, you take all that, that study and years of study to be a pilot. 00:27:03:18 - 00:27:06:06 Speaker 1 And then you have something that actually can do it for you. 00:27:06:07 - 00:27:23:05 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's crazy, but, you know, but the workload of a pilot is massive. Yeah. When you're when you're landing an aircraft that weighs 250 tons, you know, it's traveling at such a speed, you've got a lot of things to do in a very short space of time. So without the autopilot, the workload would be too much for a human to do. 00:27:23:08 - 00:27:23:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:27:23:23 - 00:27:31:09 Speaker 2 So you need it. So. And that's true for our mind. We need our autopilot. It's very useful for certain types of repetitive things we do. 00:27:31:09 - 00:27:37:03 Speaker 2 So we don't want to be thinking about how to tie our shoelaces every single time we have to do it. 00:27:37:03 - 00:27:39:24 Speaker 1 You know, we don't need the energy expenditure. 00:27:39:24 - 00:27:47:04 Speaker 2 No, no. Exactly. So the autopilot in our brain is there. It's got a useful purpose, but we've we've overextended its use. 00:27:47:06 - 00:27:49:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I understand that, 00:27:49:25 - 00:27:54:29 Speaker 1 so I, I want to get into and I know it's in your book, so I, I know. 00:27:54:29 - 00:27:56:01 Speaker 2 We won't do. 00:27:56:01 - 00:27:56:22 Speaker 1 It, but, 00:27:56:22 - 00:27:59:06 Speaker 1 the six, you have the six rules of happiness. 00:27:59:08 - 00:28:00:03 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:28:00:05 - 00:28:03:14 Speaker 1 And I think it's powerful, you know, travelers, 00:28:03:14 - 00:28:08:10 Speaker 1 entrepreneurs, leaders. And you know, anybody one that's wanting to create a, a life, 00:28:08:10 - 00:28:10:27 Speaker 1 for the for themselves, a better life for themselves. 00:28:11:02 - 00:28:11:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:28:11:09 - 00:28:11:23 Speaker 1 So, 00:28:11:23 - 00:28:15:23 Speaker 1 I'm just going to kind of go through the rules, and then you say what you want to say about it, and so. 00:28:15:23 - 00:28:16:11 Speaker 2 Okay. 00:28:16:11 - 00:28:16:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:28:16:19 - 00:28:21:01 Speaker 1 Rule one, which is build a solid foundation. And for entrepreneurs, 00:28:21:01 - 00:28:23:24 Speaker 1 what does it look like beyond just making money? 00:28:23:24 - 00:28:40:13 Speaker 2 Well, for me, I can only say what it is for me. I can speak generally, but as for me specifically, you know, I think about when I get up, you know, who do I want to be as a man in the world? How can I be? How can I go about what I need to do with kindness, with love, with compassion? 00:28:40:13 - 00:28:41:10 Speaker 2 How can I 00:28:41:10 - 00:28:58:03 Speaker 2 have a desire for things that I want, but not be so kind of dogmatically wedded to those desires that I would kill someone to have it, you know, or piss a lot of people off in order to go I want yeah, yeah, etc., etc. so for me, 00:28:58:03 - 00:29:09:08 Speaker 2 as a business leader, when I was CEO of a company, what that meant was I felt my job was mainly to make sure that every person in my team, I knew what their vision for themselves was. 00:29:09:11 - 00:29:19:20 Speaker 2 I knew who they wanted to grow into and become, and I was there to help and support and facilitate their growth and their success in the world. So my job was to cultivate 00:29:19:20 - 00:29:34:05 Speaker 2 the growth of the people in my team, and that led to a successful business financially. But I wasn't. It was that way around. It was it was growing through watering the seeds of the flowers of every person in my team. 00:29:34:10 - 00:29:59:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. So it lifts the whole thing. And I think, I think, you know, my experience of my early career when I was in some bigger corporate organizations was that management was all about power and territory, and it was shaking a stick and saying, do this or else, you know, you won't get a promotion or something like this is all very negatively and fearfully induced by, and that only works for a very short period of time. 00:29:59:07 - 00:30:17:05 Speaker 2 And then it stops. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't I didn't see that as a good way forward as a leader. So being a leader means you lead in a way, what I call human leadership. You lead in a way where your humanity is the thing that shines out the brightest, and you can do that because you know what your values are. 00:30:17:08 - 00:30:18:28 Speaker 2 So you can sit down and have a tough conversation 00:30:18:28 - 00:30:20:04 Speaker 2 with someone saying, look, 00:30:20:04 - 00:30:34:14 Speaker 2 I know this is going to be a tough conversation, and I have a bias because I have a value around fairness in the team and what you're doing. I don't think it's fair to the other members. And so I'm going to be particularly picking up on this because it's a value I have. 00:30:34:14 - 00:30:36:12 Speaker 2 And it's important to me. Yeah, 00:30:36:12 - 00:30:40:21 Speaker 2 I think we need to have this conversation. Are you up for it? You know. Yeah. 00:30:40:23 - 00:30:44:07 Speaker 1 Well, that's nice that you even ask it that way. You. Yeah. 00:30:44:07 - 00:30:54:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. You know, I've, I've seen people I've heard people and and like just they don't even preface it with this is going to have conversations. It's gotta go into the conversation. 00:30:54:03 - 00:30:54:29 Speaker 2 Correct. Yeah. 00:30:54:29 - 00:31:04:25 Speaker 2 Yeah. We can speak all day about what's bad leadership. Looks like you need so much of it. That's why I work as a leadership coach now. Yeah, because I'm trying to I'm trying to support 00:31:04:25 - 00:31:10:05 Speaker 2 leaders who want to live as authentic human leaders. I'm trying to do that. 00:31:10:05 - 00:31:13:26 Speaker 1 So yeah, I love that. And we'll talk. We'll talk about as well. Yeah. 00:31:13:26 - 00:31:14:29 Speaker 1 Rule number two. 00:31:15:01 - 00:31:15:11 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:31:15:17 - 00:31:18:27 Speaker 1 Fully owned everything that happens. 00:31:18:29 - 00:31:19:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:31:19:22 - 00:31:21:25 Speaker 1 You talk about radical responsibility. 00:31:21:25 - 00:31:22:25 Speaker 1 Can you say. 00:31:23:06 - 00:31:41:10 Speaker 2 More? Yeah. I mean, the best way of talking about this, I think, is like, let's say in my case, my wife said, I'm leaving you. I'm leaving the company. And I coulda sat here in this podcast 22 years later going, well, if it hadn't been for her, I'd have been happy. You know? It's all her fault. She's ruined my life. 00:31:41:12 - 00:32:11:00 Speaker 2 Yeah, blah blah blah. I was totally innocent. Nothing to do with me, right? But I would just tell her all her. Yeah, that would just be bullshit. It's like when those things happen at least probably more. But at least half of what is happening is something I've caused, something I didn't do, something in lack of integrity or something I let down, let it down around, or some agreement that I didn't keep or something you know, there's things for me to see and learn and change as a result of those things. 00:32:11:00 - 00:32:23:07 Speaker 2 And if I take full ownership for being the best version of me that I can be, then that's going to make me proactively go to the other person and say, I want you to tell me as much as you can about what I didn't do. Well, 00:32:23:07 - 00:32:32:05 Speaker 2 because I want to improve that the next time. So you don't wait to be told you're actually proactively going to get the stuff that's going to help you. 00:32:32:07 - 00:32:35:16 Speaker 1 Right? That's that's a level of humility as well. Right? 00:32:35:16 - 00:32:36:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. 00:32:36:23 - 00:32:39:12 Speaker 1 Really taking that on. Yeah. And not 00:32:39:12 - 00:32:46:03 Speaker 1 pushing the blame over it over there on that side. But looking at yourself, you are what responsibility that you have. 00:32:46:05 - 00:32:47:26 Speaker 2 And so yeah I agree I mean 00:32:47:26 - 00:33:02:25 Speaker 2 I love the guy. There's a guy called Jim Detmer. He wrote a book called the 15 Commitments of Conscious Leaders, and he's got this brilliant model. He draws it on a piece of paper, he draws a flat line on a piece of paper like this across the page. And he says, are you above the line 00:33:02:25 - 00:33:03:26 Speaker 2 or below the line? 00:33:04:02 - 00:33:20:17 Speaker 2 And everyone says what is the line they talking about. And he says well above the line, you're, you're committed to, you're open, you're curious and you're committed to learning That's who you are. When you're above the line, below the line, you're closed, defensive and committed to being right. 00:33:20:17 - 00:33:22:09 Speaker 2 And you're either in one or the other. 00:33:22:12 - 00:33:23:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:33:23:03 - 00:33:32:14 Speaker 2 When you show up for a conversation. And I much prefer to be above the line because I learn a lot more and I think I'm a better, kinder, better version of me. 00:33:32:16 - 00:33:38:25 Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think just on the, the below the line part, like if you always committed to being right. 00:33:38:28 - 00:33:41:09 Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah. More often than not you're not 00:33:41:09 - 00:34:02:17 Speaker 2 also you know, but also you don't learn anything new. Yeah. Because your viewpoint is impenetrable. Yeah. So you can't you're not open to any new data. So someone could say, I accept very much that you're wedded to the decision to not go into this market with this product. But that is based on data we collected two years ago. 00:34:02:19 - 00:34:23:24 Speaker 2 And since you made that decision, we've got new data from last month that shows us that market has shifted. And you go, nope, nope I'm still gonna and then you're just not open to new information. So if you were you go, oh let me see that new data. You know, I'm looking at you go, do you know what I was totally stuck on not going in there. 00:34:23:24 - 00:34:24:28 Speaker 2 But now that I've seen that, 00:34:24:28 - 00:34:40:13 Speaker 2 let's. I think we should do it. So. Right. I think you're making a really good point. I'm changing my mind here. I knew a guy once used to say, once I've made my mind up, that's it. And I'm never changing it. As if it was a strength. And I used to think, God, I would hate to be like that. 00:34:40:13 - 00:34:40:26 Speaker 2 Hey. 00:34:40:28 - 00:34:42:12 Speaker 1 I think maybe for a. 00:34:42:15 - 00:34:42:27 Speaker 2 Short. 00:34:42:27 - 00:34:46:05 Speaker 1 Period of time, you might be talking to a guy that was like that right now. 00:34:46:05 - 00:34:49:12 Speaker 2 Like, you know, like I. Yeah. 00:34:49:14 - 00:34:53:28 Speaker 1 It was a very short time, you know? Right. I don't remember much of it anyway. So. 00:34:53:28 - 00:34:54:25 Speaker 2 Right. Right. 00:34:55:00 - 00:34:56:09 Speaker 1 It's okay. 00:34:56:09 - 00:34:56:21 Speaker 1 All right, 00:34:56:21 - 00:34:57:18 Speaker 1 rule for, 00:34:57:18 - 00:35:02:24 Speaker 1 you create powerful, purposeful and sustainable relationships. Yeah. 00:35:02:24 - 00:35:04:17 Speaker 1 What's the key to spotting? You know, 00:35:04:17 - 00:35:08:13 Speaker 1 relationships that won't drain you versus will fuel you? 00:35:08:13 - 00:35:25:09 Speaker 2 Great question. I mean, you you sort of get a feel for that over a period of exposure to another person, don't you? I mean, I think, you know, you either have a conversation with them that's real. Say, look, we need to have a chat. As much as I like being friends, I feel like every time I see you, I'm just really drained and tired and, 00:35:25:09 - 00:35:28:14 Speaker 2 you know, if we're going to have a friendship, can we talk about this, this, this and not that? 00:35:28:14 - 00:35:31:25 Speaker 2 That and that, because it's it's not doing me any good. Yeah. 00:35:31:25 - 00:35:34:07 Speaker 2 Do you want to be friends or do you rather leave it? You know, 00:35:34:07 - 00:35:35:26 Speaker 2 you got to have a conversation like that, or you. 00:35:35:26 - 00:35:37:00 Speaker 1 Have to have a conversation. 00:35:37:00 - 00:35:51:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, you have to, you know, you have to or or just avoid that person. But I never feel good about making those decisions alone, because I think there's something that is in service to the other person for them to be involved in a decision, because it's a decision for them too. 00:35:51:09 - 00:35:53:13 Speaker 2 And you're basically inviting someone to say, 00:35:53:13 - 00:35:57:06 Speaker 2 let's have an intentional relationship, Michael, and you'll say, what do you mean, right? 00:35:57:08 - 00:36:15:07 Speaker 2 I'll say, well, we're going to work together every day in the same team in this department. We can all just come in and do our jobs and hardly speak to each other, just do our tasks. Or I could start on day one and say to you, what's your vision for yourself over the next year? What's the greatest achievement you can imagine? 00:36:15:09 - 00:36:30:11 Speaker 2 And you could just describe it to me and I can say, well, I can help and support you to get there. Would you like me to push you forward? You like radical challenge, radical support. I could do that for you and you could do the same for me. And so the two of us could really engage each other in a purposeful way. 00:36:30:11 - 00:36:42:16 Speaker 2 Here. We could be each other's buddies are learning buddies, bro. Buddies. Let's do it. You know, we can have an intentional relationship where we intend to help each other. Yeah, and that's very rare, you know? But it's great when 00:36:42:16 - 00:36:42:27 Speaker 2 it's. 00:36:43:05 - 00:36:45:14 Speaker 1 It's rare. Probably more so in the workplace as well. 00:36:45:14 - 00:36:46:01 Speaker 1 But it. 00:36:46:03 - 00:36:50:00 Speaker 2 It's becoming more common now, but it's very rare. It has been very rare. 00:36:50:03 - 00:36:53:29 Speaker 1 It has been very rare like. Yeah. But it changes the dynamic. It does 00:36:53:29 - 00:37:04:04 Speaker 1 in, in relationships. And it can really I mean, I see it as being able to not only like as a team support each other, but individually, 00:37:04:04 - 00:37:05:08 Speaker 1 and their goals as well. 00:37:05:11 - 00:37:13:06 Speaker 2 I think so. And what I've seen in my whole life, because I'm in my 60s now, so I've got a lot of actual data about how well this works. 00:37:13:06 - 00:37:22:19 Speaker 2 I've seen so many times I've had a call out of the blue from someone I've had that kind of relationship with years ago, called me and said, I thought of you for this new business coming up. 00:37:22:21 - 00:37:37:24 Speaker 2 I remember working with you. It was brilliant, you know, are you interested in being involved in this? Or, you know, you came to my mind the other day because someone I heard was looking for someone with this experience, and I thought of you. I've had, I've never applied for a job in my life, and I've been really not the first 116. 00:37:37:24 - 00:37:38:16 Speaker 2 But that was it. 00:37:38:18 - 00:37:39:23 Speaker 1 That was it. Nice. 00:37:39:25 - 00:37:43:03 Speaker 2 Every other work I've ever done has been by invitation. 00:37:43:03 - 00:37:44:04 Speaker 1 That's pretty cool. 00:37:44:06 - 00:38:02:14 Speaker 2 And that's really even my work as a coach these days. When I was, I went on that 14 year journey. The book, and then the year before it came to an end, I called an old colleague who I used to employ in my business in England because I wanted to know how she was and how her kids were, and stuff is personal, cool. 00:38:02:16 - 00:38:16:02 Speaker 2 And right at the end I said, what are you doing professionally? She said, oh, I'm starting a new business with someone and we're going to do a leadership development. And she described it to me and I said, gosh, that sounds brilliant. I, I said, any chance of me being a coach in your team? 00:38:16:02 - 00:38:17:15 Speaker 2 She said, what? You won't? 00:38:17:23 - 00:38:32:17 Speaker 2 You were my boss for six years, and now you want to join the company where I'm going to be your boss. So how do you feel about that? I said, I don't mind, that's all I've got. No pride about that. Yeah. And, And then when I came back to England a year later, I started working as a coach for that company. 00:38:32:17 - 00:38:43:01 Speaker 2 I still do, you know, and that's because we had a a 13 year gap in our friendship. But the moment we spoke after 13 years, it was like we'd never been apart. 00:38:43:03 - 00:38:43:21 Speaker 1 And that's, 00:38:43:21 - 00:38:45:09 Speaker 1 that's the sustainable relationship right there. 00:38:45:09 - 00:38:49:23 Speaker 2 That is. Yeah it is. I've got lots of relationships like that. I'm very lucky. 00:38:49:25 - 00:38:53:00 Speaker 1 That's that's that's a blessing. This person. Oh, 00:38:53:00 - 00:38:54:02 Speaker 1 rule number five. 00:38:54:04 - 00:38:54:23 Speaker 2 Yep. 00:38:54:26 - 00:39:01:05 Speaker 1 Pay attention to your health. Spiritual, physical, mental and emotional well-being. 00:39:01:05 - 00:39:37:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, wellbeing has become a hot topic in business and in the in the world because we live in a very toxic society. Toxic ideas, toxic air, toxic food. You know, we there's so many forces stacked up to make us unwell. High anxiety, high workload, high pressure, etc., etc. oppressive government policies, blah blah blah. You know, so I think just being that, just being well is a challenge too, and I don't think it comes automatically anymore in it to be, well, we have to make time to be quiet. 00:39:37:15 - 00:39:58:03 Speaker 2 We have to make time to exercise. We have to be really conscious about what food we're putting in our bodies. We have to rest well and be sure we're doing it. There's a lot of things to be in well and I that's why rule number five is you've got to take ownership for yourself. You can't wait till you're going to your doctor and saying, I'm falling over. 00:39:58:03 - 00:39:59:06 Speaker 2 I'm not. Oh yeah. 00:39:59:06 - 00:40:00:10 Speaker 1 Can't do it. 00:40:00:11 - 00:40:15:09 Speaker 2 I'm just too late. Yeah. So, you're broken. Rule number five is how do you how do you get in the driving seat of your wellness and stay there? And how do you keep yourself energized and resourceful, especially when there's a lot of crap going on around you, which is 00:40:15:09 - 00:40:16:23 Speaker 2 going to deplete you. 00:40:16:26 - 00:40:25:02 Speaker 1 You know, and it's I don't know, I don't know if it's less or more now, but in a culture that that, 00:40:25:02 - 00:40:27:08 Speaker 1 that rewards like overwork. 00:40:27:08 - 00:40:31:03 Speaker 1 One of the things that I'm positioning this podcast to be is really, 00:40:31:03 - 00:40:36:11 Speaker 1 have sustainable success, you know, and nothing that and getting rid of the hustle the hustle culture. 00:40:36:14 - 00:40:36:28 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:40:37:00 - 00:40:42:06 Speaker 1 Because it it doesn't necessarily support you as a human being. 00:40:42:06 - 00:40:52:06 Speaker 1 Your longevity, your sustainability. And the other thing that you want to do in life, like, you know, find love, you know, have, you know, great sex or whatever it may be. You know what I mean? 00:40:52:06 - 00:40:54:19 Speaker 1 Overworking doesn't work. 00:40:54:22 - 00:41:19:26 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think more and more people are coming around to this viewpoint. It's because it's been a lot of this is being echoed by the human resources people in big organizations who realize that, you know, they can't afford to not support their people just to stay. Well, it cost is too expensive in time off and absenteeism and all these things, it costs them billions of dollars. 00:41:20:00 - 00:41:32:07 Speaker 1 Right. Exactly, exactly. And they're seeing I think a lot of companies are saying that. Yeah, let's, let's, let's have a look at groups talking about and deal with or work with your well-being while you're well. 00:41:32:09 - 00:41:50:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. Right. And and also, we saw in the pandemic when everyone was told not to come to the office and stay at home, everyone's well-being was going off the charts upwards because they weren't able to do the commute. They weren't able to be at the office. It was stress. You know, everyone was loving that. And that's why now doesn't want to go back to the office. 00:41:50:22 - 00:41:52:22 Speaker 2 They still don't. A lot of them, you know. 00:41:52:24 - 00:41:54:05 Speaker 1 Well, yeah, I think 00:41:54:05 - 00:41:58:29 Speaker 1 I think I left the office, I graduated from a university in 2001. 00:41:58:29 - 00:42:01:15 Speaker 1 I think my last office I really worked at was, 00:42:01:15 - 00:42:02:24 Speaker 1 CNN and then. 00:42:03:10 - 00:42:06:12 Speaker 1 From 2003 and think ever since then, I was like, I'm, I think I'm. 00:42:06:12 - 00:42:07:24 Speaker 2 Good. Yeah. 00:42:07:24 - 00:42:12:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. So people that that were experiencing not being in the office, you know, in 2020, 00:42:12:17 - 00:42:17:02 Speaker 1 I'm like, I don't want to go back. That was for me in 2003. So I was like, yeah, I think. 00:42:17:02 - 00:42:18:22 Speaker 2 I'm done right on it. 00:42:18:24 - 00:42:23:13 Speaker 1 That's exactly rule number six empower and support others. 00:42:23:13 - 00:42:25:19 Speaker 1 How has this how does it, you know, 00:42:25:19 - 00:42:29:20 Speaker 1 reshaped your definition of success when you're like, I think you talked about it earlier. 00:42:29:20 - 00:42:30:26 Speaker 1 Empowering, supporting. 00:42:30:26 - 00:42:47:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. What do I. Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, what what what's occurred to me over the course of my life? I didn't know this in the early days of my career, but the older and wiser I've become, what I realize is that deep contentment comes from being in service to others. 00:42:47:23 - 00:42:50:27 Speaker 2 You know, you have to go beyond yourself completely. 00:42:50:29 - 00:42:54:25 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I've learned that lesson the hard way in some ways. And, 00:42:54:25 - 00:43:15:15 Speaker 2 but now I dedicate myself to empowering anyone who's interested to listen, to empower them to, to lift these principles into, you know, live well according to these rules for happiness and so I spend a lot of time working with and supporting others to embrace this understanding and learn how to apply it well. 00:43:15:18 - 00:43:32:02 Speaker 2 And anyone who does that, even outside of work contexts, like my partner has got three grown up kids and she has really dedicated her life as a mother to bringing up her kids really well. So they've got a really solid view on life, a really good set of principles to live by. 00:43:32:02 - 00:43:36:02 Speaker 2 A good understanding they're using to raise their own children with. 00:43:36:04 - 00:43:45:17 Speaker 2 And she just really dedicated herself to really giving them that care. And that understanding and supporting them, and still does even as a grown up now. Yeah, he still does that. 00:43:45:17 - 00:43:47:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's beautiful. Yeah. 00:43:47:03 - 00:43:49:06 Speaker 1 You talked about the four ties. 00:43:49:09 - 00:43:55:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, that occurred to me when I left to go on the sabbatical because in that period, 00:43:55:19 - 00:44:02:17 Speaker 2 I'd say the four things that define our identities subconsciously. Mainly the four things we all use to define 00:44:02:17 - 00:44:09:20 Speaker 2 who we think we are is our career. That's one time, our partner or spouse. That's the other time, 00:44:09:20 - 00:44:13:10 Speaker 2 in England, the third tie is our house, our physical house. 00:44:13:10 - 00:44:13:26 Speaker 2 I have 00:44:13:26 - 00:44:19:06 Speaker 2 and the fourth tie is the community of family and friends that orbit around us. 00:44:19:06 - 00:44:26:25 Speaker 2 And so a big decision is coming like a career move or something. You go, oh, does that work for my house? Because I 00:44:26:25 - 00:44:33:22 Speaker 2 don't want to move. Does that work for my family and friends? Will that affect my career and will my partner mind if I take this or not? 00:44:33:24 - 00:44:52:03 Speaker 2 You know, so these are the four things that we're always checking in around. And if you cut one of those ties, it would be like trying to get a tent down on the ground solidly. One of the guy ropes of a tent comes loose, the tent still stable, but it's flapping a tiny bit. Yeah, if two of them can become loose, it's now a little bit more unstable. 00:44:52:06 - 00:45:08:06 Speaker 2 Three become loose. You're in trouble. All four become loose. You don't have a tent is gone in a year you can finish. And I. What I experienced was all four of those ties in my life got cut at the same time. Yeah, when I went on my sabbatical. So I was using that to try and convey how that felt. 00:45:08:08 - 00:45:15:22 Speaker 2 But it's important, I think, to be aware that those four things really influence our thinking behind the scenes of our mind. We don't realize it. 00:45:15:28 - 00:45:16:17 Speaker 1 We don't realize. 00:45:16:18 - 00:45:26:23 Speaker 2 That, yeah, they they either make us risk averse or over risky, depending on how well our relationships with those four ties. Yeah. 00:45:26:23 - 00:45:28:26 Speaker 1 What I'm listening to and I'm hearing you, 00:45:28:26 - 00:45:32:16 Speaker 1 I'm putting myself in that situation like. Yeah, 00:45:32:16 - 00:45:33:05 Speaker 1 freedom for 00:45:33:05 - 00:45:35:18 Speaker 1 for Americans. I don't know if it 00:45:35:18 - 00:45:39:22 Speaker 1 can happen, like. Yeah. How's your house being attacked? Because some people. 00:45:39:25 - 00:45:41:28 Speaker 2 British people, are very house proud. 00:45:42:01 - 00:45:48:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Americans, they were like, yeah, I can sell the house, I can move, I get from another place, you know. Yeah, yeah. 00:45:48:23 - 00:45:49:04 Speaker 1 But 00:45:49:04 - 00:45:52:03 Speaker 1 you know, career, your, 00:45:52:03 - 00:45:58:07 Speaker 1 your spouse in your community that those are things that can really keep people tied into. 00:45:58:07 - 00:45:59:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. Situation. 00:45:59:16 - 00:46:00:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. They can. 00:46:00:19 - 00:46:01:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:46:01:03 - 00:46:06:13 Speaker 1 But, you know, some, like, like you said, it could be either risk averse or too risky. 00:46:06:13 - 00:46:06:24 Speaker 1 So. 00:46:06:24 - 00:46:07:00 Speaker 2 Yeah, 00:46:07:10 - 00:46:25:13 Speaker 2 this is a common, you know, classic. I coach lots of executives who, you know, would have taken a role in an organization they were offered, but their partner would have had a massive issue with it. Yeah, yeah, they might have been away. Sometimes people make your career decisions that mean they're not going to live at home for 4 or 5 days a week every week. 00:46:25:15 - 00:46:28:20 Speaker 2 And that puts a massive strain on the relationship especially if there's children. 00:46:28:20 - 00:46:34:27 Speaker 2 You know and so these are really big, big big decisions very crucial for one's wellness. 00:46:35:00 - 00:46:41:10 Speaker 1 Wellness. And I mean we're we're kind of talking about you know, what really brings happiness to you. 00:46:41:10 - 00:46:42:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. And you've 00:46:42:24 - 00:46:46:14 Speaker 1 I'll ask you this. Do you think you've mastered that? 00:46:46:16 - 00:47:06:15 Speaker 2 No. I wish I could say yes. I really wish, yeah. And then people would just send me money for my great was the big guys. Oh, now, I mean, I think I do the best that I can for myself. And so I feel like I've really improved my own understanding of how to be happy for me a lot since I, especially in the last 20 years. 00:47:06:15 - 00:47:21:05 Speaker 2 But I think it's a constant it's a constant job. It never stops. It's like it's like if you want to keep your garden beautiful, you're constantly taking weeds out. You're constantly cutting, trimming, planting, watering. 00:47:21:05 - 00:47:23:15 Speaker 2 The minute you stop attending to it, 00:47:23:15 - 00:47:28:25 Speaker 2 it starts to decay. And it's our happiness is insane is something you have to be mindful of. 00:47:28:25 - 00:47:39:21 Speaker 2 But if you set your life up well and you live by the rules, we've talked about, it should be a lot easier as you move forward. But it requires constant attention and awareness because 00:47:39:21 - 00:47:47:07 Speaker 2 life gives you feedback. You know you might be doing something that you think is kind, but the person who's receiving it might think, that's crap. 00:47:47:07 - 00:47:48:20 Speaker 2 I don't like the way you do that. 00:47:48:20 - 00:47:49:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:47:49:13 - 00:47:56:23 Speaker 2 And so you got to be open to hear that and go, oh, I had no idea you felt that way. Let me think about that so I can do it differently. Yeah. 00:47:56:23 - 00:48:01:09 Speaker 1 What's the most unexpected lesson that you've gotten since you're sabbatical? 00:48:01:09 - 00:48:02:06 Speaker 1 Oh. 00:48:02:08 - 00:48:02:13 Speaker 2 No, 00:48:02:13 - 00:48:08:14 Speaker 2 I mean, I probably the most unexpected lesson actually happened just before the sabbatical. It's what got me on it. 00:48:08:14 - 00:48:12:08 Speaker 2 And I'd say it's probably the most unexpected lessons of my entire life. Because 00:48:12:08 - 00:48:21:25 Speaker 2 when I was down and dark and depressed for a year after it all went wrong, a friend of mine said to me, you know, Ray, if you can't sometimes in life you're so down. 00:48:21:28 - 00:48:40:16 Speaker 2 If you can't see your way out, one thing you can do is go and find someone else who really needs help and dedicate yourself 100% to help them and just do it for a while. And and I guarantee you, if you find someone to do that, I bet you a breakthrough will happen. Some new thinking will come. That's what will happen. 00:48:40:19 - 00:48:56:19 Speaker 2 And so I went, okay, well, that's good advice, I'll do that. And at the time I was given it, I had a friend of mine who had used to live in England but now lived in Australia, and she had breast cancer. Okay. And she was married and she had a very young son, and she was about to start chemo. 00:48:56:22 - 00:49:12:26 Speaker 2 So I contacted her and I said, how do you feel about me coming to Australia for a month, just taking care of you while you're having new treatments for cancer and just being around the house looking after you and Matt and Pete and just being there. She said, all right, I'll be brilliant. Please come out, be nice. Yeah. 00:49:12:26 - 00:49:20:16 Speaker 2 I'll wait. Okay. So I flew to Australia, just dropped everything. I thought, I'm just going to go and look after her, which I did, and the month came out, finished. 00:49:20:16 - 00:49:27:10 Speaker 2 No new insight, no new thinking. I was thinking got that friend who gave me that advice about to go home. I'm going to give them a piece of my mind. 00:49:27:12 - 00:49:44:02 Speaker 2 It was a rubbish. But I got a call from a friend in Australia who live somewhere else and she said, while you're over here, do you want to come up and visit for a couple of days? And I had time to do it. And so I said, yeah, okay. And when I got to her house, she said, me and my mum are going to see this play at the theater. 00:49:44:02 - 00:50:03:20 Speaker 2 Do you want to come with us? I went, okay, I thought, you know Sydney. So I went to see this play and in the program for the play, you'll know this because you're an actor. It had a cool casting call for the next audition for the play, and it's called out. The play was called out of order by Ray Cooney's, a very famous British plays about parliamentary farce. 00:50:03:20 - 00:50:24:11 Speaker 2 Whitehall, member of Parliament, you know, was caught having an affair in the hotel. It's all comedy. It's kind of fun. And so I said, I'm not an actor at all. But I turned to my friends in the interval and I said, look at this play that they're auditioning for. I said, I should be in that because I've got the perfect British accent, and I could be this member of Parliament. 00:50:24:13 - 00:50:40:17 Speaker 2 I said it as a joke that my two friends said, well, we know the director of the plane, we know him. So if you go to the audition on Saturday, you know, we can put in a word for you. I said, don't be ridiculous. I'm not an actor. I'll be useless. I'll just give up. They said, why don't you just go and do it for fun? 00:50:40:19 - 00:51:03:26 Speaker 2 I went, okay, I'll do it. So I did, and I had to cut. A very long story short, this is all in the book. This story I did the auditions and I threw myself in 100%. And I got offered the lead role in that entire story. George picked the 400 lines of the script, and I, you know, he has to kiss two women on stage, move a dead body, the comedic center of the whole thing. 00:51:03:29 - 00:51:18:18 Speaker 2 And I. I couldn't believe it. I just said, I admire my my sister in law, my brother's wife, she's an actress. So I showed her the script and I showed it. I said, do you think I could do this with my level of skill and experience? She said, yeah, you could probably get away with it. I can show you how to do it. 00:51:18:20 - 00:51:37:05 Speaker 2 I can help you. And so I called the director of the play to make a decision. And I said, are you sure about this? You know, crazy asking me I'm a high risk Jew. It's, you know, you're 400 paying customers every night coming into the theater, he said, no way. We were 100% wanting you to do it. We think you'd be the right person. 00:51:37:05 - 00:51:59:15 Speaker 2 We'll get you ready. So I decided to do it, and I went back to Australia for three months to do that, play nice. I still didn't have the new insight or anything, but when I was flying back from that three months, instead of being George Pickford, I was flying back on the plane thinking, oh, why do I feel so lousy about going to be Ray the businessman again? 00:51:59:15 - 00:52:03:23 Speaker 2 And suddenly dawned on me, I had this epiphany on the airplane. I went, oh my God, 00:52:03:23 - 00:52:06:16 Speaker 2 Ray, the businessman is a character that I play. 00:52:06:16 - 00:52:20:23 Speaker 2 It's not actually me. And I never thought that until I'd been. George picked him the actual character. I had to become him, and it just created a chink in my thinking that I would never have had. 00:52:20:23 - 00:52:32:02 Speaker 2 I thought, you know what? I don't have to be the character of Ray the businessman. I could I could change the character because Tony Robbins, the coach, says, you're the director and the scriptwriter as well as the actor as. 00:52:32:02 - 00:52:33:13 Speaker 1 Well as the actor. Yeah. 00:52:33:15 - 00:52:49:15 Speaker 2 He saw I could change the character. All right, change the episode. Or I could kill the series off completely, but just take it off the air. And so I decided to kill the series off completely and take it off. Yeah, and I stopped. Quit being right. The business. That's what got me onto the sabbatical. Wow. 00:52:49:17 - 00:52:53:06 Speaker 1 Wow. That's a that's a great insight because, 00:52:53:06 - 00:52:55:15 Speaker 1 it took you some time to get there, but you got. 00:52:55:17 - 00:52:59:14 Speaker 2 12 months and a lot of experience and have to be an actor. 00:52:59:16 - 00:53:09:14 Speaker 1 Can I say that's a good story for people who are, you know, looking for whatever insight in their life that's going to cause their life to shift into a way that, you know, 00:53:09:14 - 00:53:11:08 Speaker 1 that's going to help them and the rest of the. 00:53:11:08 - 00:53:13:10 Speaker 1 So having that was, was. 00:53:13:10 - 00:53:28:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think the infringer I think the wisdom to share about it is there are times when you've got to be willing to walk completely into the unknown and trust that in that space, you're going to find out something that you can't find out any other way. 00:53:28:22 - 00:53:29:19 Speaker 1 Anywhere. Yeah, 00:53:29:19 - 00:53:30:08 Speaker 1 yeah. 00:53:30:11 - 00:53:32:02 Speaker 2 That's what Steven Jobs used to talk about. 00:53:32:02 - 00:53:38:22 Speaker 2 Apple. You know you got to see you can only connect the dots looking backwards. And everything makes sense when you connect. 00:53:38:24 - 00:53:39:29 Speaker 1 Right Tony. 00:53:40:02 - 00:53:40:28 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:53:41:01 - 00:53:45:09 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well at that point, you know you're in the future. 00:53:45:11 - 00:53:55:20 Speaker 2 Yeah. Right. And so I just had to. And I trusted it because I had nothing else I could trust. At that point. Everything else was broken. So I trusted that. 00:53:55:23 - 00:53:59:06 Speaker 1 And it got you a nice role. 00:53:59:09 - 00:54:09:14 Speaker 2 I like I loved being in the play. I wouldn't want to do it as a living. I wouldn't want to do it over and over. I just know one time was enough that satisfied, satisfied that because I think for me, 00:54:09:14 - 00:54:18:19 Speaker 2 part of my journey has been to, if you like, being less, less directed by my ego and more by my heart and soul. 00:54:18:22 - 00:54:26:11 Speaker 2 Okay. And so I think acting can you know, I don't know what you'd say about this, but I think acting can appeal to one Z or not. 00:54:26:13 - 00:54:30:03 Speaker 1 It can, work for it. It runs the gamut. 00:54:30:03 - 00:54:46:14 Speaker 1 For some people it's it's all about ego and praise. And, you know, what you get in the world or some people that's just like, just just who they are. They're. Yeah. Yeah. Or an actor. And yeah, just being in that world fulfills them. And I think I was probably a little bit of both. 00:54:46:16 - 00:54:48:25 Speaker 1 Yeah. To be completely honest. 00:54:48:27 - 00:54:50:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 00:54:50:25 - 00:54:52:12 Speaker 1 So I mean, 00:54:52:12 - 00:54:55:27 Speaker 1 you, you were you going through some, some many things. 00:54:55:27 - 00:54:59:02 Speaker 1 So if someone was listening today and they could only remember 00:54:59:02 - 00:55:00:16 Speaker 1 one of your six rules. 00:55:00:23 - 00:55:01:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:55:01:26 - 00:55:03:14 Speaker 1 What would you want it to be and why? 00:55:03:16 - 00:55:07:14 Speaker 2 Well, I definitely start with the first one. The first one's going to 00:55:07:14 - 00:55:25:25 Speaker 2 going to improve your life no matter what you choose to do. Because if you've got a foundation of self-awareness and you really do know what's on your personal dashboard, and on that dashboard, you've got like, you know, in the car, you've got speed, revs, petrol, temperature, if you've got what's my vision? 00:55:25:25 - 00:55:37:03 Speaker 2 Where am I trying to get to? What are my values? What's important to me every day? What am I empowering? Beliefs. What are my limiting beliefs? When am I in my element? In other words, when am I 00:55:37:03 - 00:55:45:18 Speaker 2 doing something I love and I'm absorbed and totally lost in it? You know, as a kid, Robinson called it. And the last thing, 00:55:45:18 - 00:55:50:08 Speaker 2 would be, I can't remember this one more, but I can't remember what it is. 00:55:50:11 - 00:56:12:14 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. When what what are the driving forces that I need to take into account? Because all humans have the same driving force is the need for security, the need for belonging, the need for recognition, etcetera, etcetera. And you've got to know how those are making your decisions because they sit behind your decision making. Yeah. You don't know you're doing it like, oh, I choose that. 00:56:12:17 - 00:56:19:05 Speaker 2 But you think, well that's it's only my need for security that's making me choose that. If I was fully secure financially, I wouldn't choose that, 00:56:19:05 - 00:56:20:01 Speaker 2 you know? So, 00:56:20:01 - 00:56:21:20 Speaker 1 So build that foundation. 00:56:21:20 - 00:56:33:18 Speaker 2 Yeah. Build the foundation of self-awareness and keep it going, you know, take the time to reflect, get up, get a buddy who's interested in that same thing so you can coach each other for free. 00:56:33:18 - 00:56:34:09 Speaker 1 Okay. 00:56:34:11 - 00:56:35:15 Speaker 2 You know, stuff like that. 00:56:35:17 - 00:56:39:13 Speaker 1 Accountability accountability partner kind of accountability buddy. 00:56:39:13 - 00:56:42:16 Speaker 2 That's a good way of saying it. Yeah it's nice. Something like that. 00:56:42:18 - 00:56:44:05 Speaker 1 Nice right. 00:56:44:05 - 00:56:45:11 Speaker 1 It's been a great hour man. 00:56:45:13 - 00:56:47:19 Speaker 2 It's, it's, it's got quick. 00:56:47:21 - 00:56:51:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. It has I have to be cognizant of it. 00:56:51:22 - 00:56:52:07 Speaker 2 But yeah. 00:56:52:09 - 00:56:58:25 Speaker 1 But sometimes you get you, I get so into the conversation that, you know, the time just kind of flies. And this is one of these conversations, 00:56:58:25 - 00:57:00:12 Speaker 1 and we your book, 00:57:00:14 - 00:57:06:16 Speaker 1 Life Without a tie. Yeah. That's a good book for people to get. I wish I would have gotten it before our conversation. 00:57:06:16 - 00:57:08:05 Speaker 1 But I didn't, so I will. 00:57:08:07 - 00:57:08:27 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:57:09:00 - 00:57:11:11 Speaker 1 Get the get it after the conversation and. 00:57:11:14 - 00:57:17:28 Speaker 2 Yeah. And if you want me to come back and do another episode about something particular in there, then just let me know. I'll be happy. Yeah, we'll do that. 00:57:18:04 - 00:57:19:23 Speaker 1 We'll do that. Yeah. That sounds good. Yeah. 00:57:19:23 - 00:57:23:18 Speaker 1 One of the last questions that we have, well, first, before we get to the last question is, 00:57:23:18 - 00:57:28:01 Speaker 1 how do you how do how would you like people to get in touch with you if they want to be coached by you, 00:57:28:01 - 00:57:29:01 Speaker 1 or anything, you know? 00:57:29:01 - 00:57:33:15 Speaker 2 Yeah, I've got that just fine that you offer. Yeah. Super. There's a there's a website, 00:57:33:15 - 00:57:41:06 Speaker 2 life without a time.com for the book. So that's a good place where people can go. I'm on LinkedIn as well. Yeah. 00:57:41:06 - 00:57:44:28 Speaker 2 And those two places is mainly how everyone reaches me. 00:57:45:01 - 00:57:46:19 Speaker 1 Nice and 00:57:46:19 - 00:57:53:15 Speaker 1 much like the first question and the last question is an intrinsic question as well. And the thing that I love to ask, 00:57:53:15 - 00:57:56:09 Speaker 1 is from your heart and from your soul. 00:57:56:09 - 00:58:00:07 Speaker 1 What was it? What would you like people to know? 00:58:00:07 - 00:58:02:08 Speaker 1 As we in this podcast. 00:58:02:10 - 00:58:04:10 Speaker 2 Oh, what? I'd like people to know. 00:58:04:10 - 00:58:06:15 Speaker 2 Oh, such a hard question. 00:58:06:15 - 00:58:10:10 Speaker 2 I think I'll just say that, you know, I found the 00:58:10:10 - 00:58:22:17 Speaker 2 living life that's true for me. And the way I'm doing it now, it's just I feel so much happier. I have a lot less money. In my particular example, so I'm not advocating for that. But in my case, it's how it is. 00:58:22:20 - 00:58:33:13 Speaker 2 But I'm just so much happier now. I haven't a lot less, I have a lot less stress, and I spend more minutes and more days being and feeling like the person I really want to be. 00:58:33:13 - 00:58:41:16 Speaker 2 And so I think finding your own path is something I'd encourage anyone to really commit themselves to. Yeah. 00:58:41:19 - 00:58:45:10 Speaker 1 I totally agree. Yeah, right. Thank you for being on the podcast. 00:58:45:10 - 00:58:47:23 Speaker 1 I really appreciate your time, your energy, 00:58:47:23 - 00:58:51:05 Speaker 1 your wisdom and just your life experience that you brought. 00:58:51:05 - 00:58:55:25 Speaker 1 Because it's only you're the only one that could bring your experience. 00:58:55:27 - 00:58:56:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:58:56:11 - 00:58:57:11 Speaker 1 To this podcast. 00:58:57:11 - 00:58:59:09 Speaker 1 You're welcome. And to the question that we have, 00:58:59:09 - 00:59:01:08 Speaker 1 for you listeners and watchers, is, 00:59:01:08 - 00:59:03:09 Speaker 1 if you're looking back at your own journey, 00:59:03:09 - 00:59:13:07 Speaker 1 so far, what's one choice you made, big or small, that brought you closer to living fully and thriving in your life? Go ahead and share those in the comments and, 00:59:13:07 - 00:59:16:15 Speaker 1 as we always say, let's make thriving our new normal. 00:59:16:18 - 00:59:18:02 Speaker 1 And we'll see you next week.