There's a kind of success people don't talk about.
The kind that looks good on the outside but calls
to your peace on the inside. And far too many
of us are achieving while quietly abandoning
ourselves. If you ever hit a goal and still felt
empty, if you've ever hustled so hard you forgot
who you were doing it for, this conversation
is for you. Because success was never meant.
to require your soul. And so the first thing
is to get good at discerning what it is you need
to actively cope with and what it is that disengagement
coping is important. When there's an emergency,
you don't have time for feeling. You have to
handle it. But in most cases in our lives, we're
not experiencing emergency. And so, because we're
not experiencing emergency, in many ways we can
take some time to say, ouch, you know, that thing
hurt me that you said. And that's why today's
conversation matters. Because what if success
didn't have to hurt? What if you could lead,
build, grow, and still protect the most important
parts of you? Your mind, your identity, your
peace. Dr. Cicely Horsham -Braithwaite. has spent
her life helping high achievers leaders and world
changers do exactly that and in her book self
-care activities for women she gives both women
and men permission and a plan to succeed without
abandoning themselves in the process so before
we step into the full conversation i want you
to take a breath release whatever you've been
carrying today and open yourself up to this conversation
hey there Look, my hope is that the Thravo journey
meets you exactly where you are and helps you
rise into who you're here to be. It's 2025 and
this is your year to thrive despite what the
world is throwing at us. And our desire is that
our conversations inspire you, bring clarity,
and give you a reason to breathe deeper. So our
ask is that you take a moment to subscribe, download
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platform. Your support doesn't just help the
show grow. It helps build a space that's rooted
in your evolution. And that means everything
to me and the TTJ team. Now, if you're ready
to go beyond the episodes, come join our private
Thrive Wheel of Journey discussion group on Facebook.
We're walking through a 22 -week series built
to anchor each week in intention, purpose, and
meaningful connection. I do so look forward to
hearing your voice and can't wait to see you
in the group. But for right now, let's get into
it. Well, you know, uh again, we're starting
the podcast. I just really wanna and I explain,
I expressed it to you already and I just wanna
welcome you to the Thoroughbore Journey podcast
and I'm excited, so excited to really have you
on the podcast. So, welcome Dr. Cicely. Um I
know it's horse ham break weight. Um so, can
I call you Dr. Cicely? Yes, yes, absolutely,
Michael. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you for
having me. We had such a lovely conversation
and connection when we met. And so I am delighted
to continue our conversation today and see where
it goes. Yes, yes. prep for this and ready for
you because you are a doctor, you're a psychologist,
you're a coach. And I had to level up. So I had
to make sure I'm ready to have a great conversation
with you. But before we get going, I really wanted
to because you took the privilege of sending
me your book. And there's self care activities
for women, 101 practical ways to slow down and
reconnect with yourself. And I'm going to promote
this right now because I really want uh women
to go get this and I know it's for women but
there's some activities in here for men um so
don't feel if you walk around this book don't
feel bad so this is an this is an excellent book
and we'll talk about it so wow thank you for
writing this um I gifted this to my sister oh
one of my sisters and um she's going to take
it from me as soon as we're done here. Well,
and make sure I look at some of the activities
that you feel called to because a lot of the
research that drives the suggestions that I've
made don't take gender into account. So the writing
and the conceptualizing of some of the things
that are unique to women is is what leads the
book to be focused on activities for women. For
some reason, both my books, the publisher picked
the colors and they're both pink. My first book
doesn't say it's just about women, but I've had
several... uh, folks tell me that the men in
their lives have been carrying it around. And,
and, um, so, so go for it. That's what I'm talking
about. So man, you guys get this too. I mean,
we'll talk about a couple of, um, um, activities
in here that I, that I really connected with
app. There's a lot of them, but there's two that
I want to specifically talk about. And throughout
the conversation, I really want people to have
this question playing around in their mind. and
leave these in the comments, which is, if you
had to make a change in your life, and if you
fully believed it was possible, what would be
your next level move? And through this conversation,
we'll be talking about that, I'm sure, to speak
to you. And so just have that question in your
mind. As I was doing the research after we connect
and I was like I need to know more about her
and see what's going with her and You have a
very interesting story. You had Caribbean and
American parents, right? Yeah, and how did how
did that you talked about that a little bit?
How did that influence who you are today as far
as you know? You get into the role that you're
in right now and just your world. Yeah, I mean
I so many ways probably ways that As I grow and
change become will become more and more apparent
to me so my dad is from Trinidad and he migrated
to Canada and then the United States and my mom
is from South Carolina and and she is part of
the Gullah Geechee ethnic group and They migrated
from South Carolina to New York. And so what
I've come to realize is that having the experience
of parents who knew what it was like to be outsiders,
they had to learn to translate the environment
and make sense of it while also remaining true
to themselves and who they are and maintaining
their cultural heritage, not feeling like they
had to shed it. But also that's a delicate dance,
right? They also had to figure out how to translate
and live between worlds. And so I come from people
who for a variety of reasons left their home
to search for a better opportunity for themselves
and their families, right? And I think that that
set me up well for what I do today, which is
to listen to the needs that people and organizations
have and read between the lines. Because when
you straddle culture, you have to read between
the lines. And I think that that set me up very
well to go through my doctoral education and
then work in the environments as well as in my
business that I have worked in because I... can
be part of and know how to step outside and observe.
And I think one of my particular gifts is to
be able to spot what is out of alignment and
help individuals, teams and organizations and
companies get themselves back into alignment.
What are the shifts that get them there? And
so my work is to be an observer of culture. And
I learned it from people who um to survive learn
to observe culture yeah i think this is actually
a really powerful place and then to have someone
to come in that can see something that's probably
not working for them um come in just make a shift
um in someone's mindset or just a way that do
things um and you also like you you've had influences
and i took in your story that i found out there
was um in your undergrad before you got to your
um your doctoral degree. You had somebody that
was very influential to you. Can you talk about
that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know
her name. Her name is Dr. Angela Byers. And she
was not doctor yet, but I met her at a conference
in New Mexico. I think it was New Mexico. It
may not have been. It was somewhere. It might
have been Atlanta. She was doing a presentation
and I had the chance to just observe her. She
was another woman of African descent and she
just... she spoke and presented in a way that
felt familiar to me. And while I had had a role
model, my uncle, who is close in age to me, is
also a psychologist. So he was in his doctoral
program, but he's a man. And just to see her,
I felt like this thing that I have placed on
my mind and heart that I've been saying I want
to do, I can actually do it. And so seeing her
be in that space was sort of like a magnet that
helped draw me toward where I was meant to go,
right? Like that magnet is there, but I've come
to realize that that pull is there, but we often
need sturdy role models to help us to envision
Getting there and she was that for me. I remember
years later after I'd already completed my training
and and was a psychologist I happened upon her
somewhere and And again like it was a chance
quick meeting and let her know what she meant
to me And and that was just a beautiful opportunity
to have that chance. Yeah, I think it's that's
pretty awesome and profound because to have someone
to look up to or see in the space that you want
to be in and and not necessarily know where you
want to go but have some kind of a north star
it's it's it's pretty great first of all and
i know that some people may not have that and
to have that is a gift right And so that led
you into really your focus, really. And so I
want to talk about a little bit about that, which
is social cognitive therapy. Is that what it
is? So one of the theories that I used in my
dissertation research is a career theory called
social cognitive career theory taken from social
cognitive theory. And basically it looks at things
like how The opportunities that we see our assessment
of the barriers we face to our career goals play
a role in our lives. And it's the accuracy of
sort of understanding those barriers that helps
us to then take action that. allows us to navigate
those barriers successfully. And part of how
we might do that is to have experiences that
strengthen our self -efficacy, our belief that
our effort can produce the outcomes that we're
moving toward. It's about being able to see other
people do things that have been placed in our
mind and heart and help us to understand that
it is possible. And then having that awareness,
taking action to move us towards that goal, and
then adjusting along the way. And so I think
it's helpful to have that framework in mind.
And part of the reason I drew from that framework
is that I was studying the experiences of African
-American women who had been on public assistance,
what helped them to transition to work, what
were some of the inner strategies that they used
to move forward. And I mean, there's barriers
in different situations. Can you speak to some
of the barriers and how someone can overcome
a barrier in their specific situation? Yeah.
Okay. The number one thing that I find when I'm
working with folks is that, well, there are a
few, but the thing that stands out that I think
is a framework is that active versus disengaged
coping makes the difference. So every day we're
confronted with things that we have to cope with.
And quite frankly, if you belong to any group
that has historically experienced some sort of
marginalization, I know we're on here, but I'm
seeing something in my glasses that I'm trying
to get rid of. And I think it's just a shadow.
So I think that's what it is. So she's in my
eye. So every day we're confronted with things.
And if if our brain and if our sort of like mind
and awareness allowed us to cope with every single
thing, we just wouldn't get anything done. We
would be stuck. We would be paralyzed. But if
you belong to any group that has experienced
some form of marginalization, whether that's
poverty due to inequities regarding race, gender,
whatever the thing is. The way that many of the
places where we live are structured is that if
you were to pay attention to all of the slights
in the course of your day, that you just, again,
you wouldn't get anything done. Right. And so
often too much. So often we sort of push things
away. Right. And so like, for my people, it might
be like, I'm not studying them. I'm not paying
attention to what they said or did. I'm just
going to keep on moving. And what happens is
that we when we when we generalize that to every
kind of like, thing that we are coping with,
it can lead us to be engaged in disengaged coping.
And so what we want to do is actively cope with
and address the things that come up that may
be barriers to the thing we're trying to do.
And so the first thing is to... Here on the Thrival
Journey, we talk a lot about not just surviving,
but thriving. And a big part of that for me has
been understanding my health on a deeper level.
That's why I partnered with Livegood and brought
it under my company, Orion's Health. Not just
because I believe in the products, but because
I've seen what they can do firsthand. I've walked
through some hard health chapters in my life,
including cancer and a kidney transplant. And
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This isn't just a sponsorship. It's part of my
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thrive in body, mind, and spirit. Of course,
of course, always, always, always consult your
physician before starting any new supplement
or health regimen. Your body is unique and your
healthcare provider should always be part of
the conversation. The links are in the show notes.
Now tap in and take your next step toward thriving.
Get good at discerning what it is you need to
actively cope with. and what it is that disengagement
coping is important. When there's an emergency,
you don't have time for feelings. You have to,
you have to handle it. But in most cases in our
lives, we're not experiencing emergency. And
so because we're not experiencing emergency,
in many ways we can take some time to say, ouch,
you know, that thing hurt me that you said, or,
you know, I'm feeling tired. And so once you
acknowledge the ouch, the feeling, the emotion
tending to it is a way of actively coping. And
that I think making that switch between I just
push everything away and keep it moving. to a
more refined, there's some things I give my attention
to and some things I don't, is really, I think,
the first switch that people need to take. And
because I talk about self -care as part of my
contribution to leaders to entrepreneurs, I talk
about three different types of self care that
are anchors to help with the ways in which we
cope. And we can, you know, we can certainly
talk about that. Yeah, we'll get definitely get
to that. Because I'm excited for us to actually
go over these. But you talked about push, you
push away and keep things moving. Do you find
that very? I know you talked you dealt with life
during the pandemic, the COVID -19 pandemic.
Americans have always been a hustle culture,
but it seems like more so now than before. Do
you find that a lot of people embrace that hustle
culture, which I definitely did for a minute,
but not so much now anymore? Like, don't stop
to acknowledge the ouch or acknowledge the things
that keeps them from really taking care of themselves.
Yeah. I mean, look, I think it's easy for us
to look at that from an individual perspective.
Yes, I find that many folks are doing that. to
some extent, what it takes to change that is
that individuals have to change. And when we
were living under the global pandemic conditions,
depending on where you lived, it forced many
people to slow down. But what I think is that
the larger context is that we call it hostile
culture, because there are many aspects of our
daily lives that are compelling us to to hustle
right yeah so um our phones are designed to keep
us engaged and to take us down a rabbit hole
and i love a good rabbit hole as well as the
next person right i think we all do right right
and um And part of what we consume tells us that
we can always be better and different. And so
that adds to it. And then our devices are these
like wonders in little tiny machines that give
us 24 hour access to the world and the world
24 hour access to us. And what they're doing
is really hitting the dopamine centers of our
brain. And calling us back and back and back
and they're doing it on sort of an intermittent
response pattern like the the slot machines in
the. Right and so so. And we are we are our culture
is organized around consumption and I'm not going
to say any of those things are blanketly bad
right not at all what I am going to say is that.
So it is easy to get caught up in being and doing
and having, and to be, do and have often requires,
we believe, hustling. And so as someone like
yourself who dabbled in that and realized like
you were getting out of the matrix, I think it
takes conversations like this from a variety
of people giving that message for folks to consider.
the importance of pausing, right? And Dr. Sandra
Dalton, I think Smith is her name, who writes
about rest, talks about the seven types of rest.
I think part of how we get out of hustle culture
is that we disconnect a little bit and then notice
what becomes clearer. And so that we can develop
a more regulated tapping into our achievement
and manifesting. And so I think what flips the
switch for people is recognizing you can have
many of the things that you want, probably need
to get really clear about what it is you want.
And there are ways to bring it forth to you that
don't require hustle. I don't know if that's
what you asked me, but that's what I want. to
you. That's no, I don't know what you asked,
but that's what I want to say. You got it. And
it's perfect. Because there's a couple things
that you talked about. I guess I might as well
just go in this direction. You talked about getting
out of the matrix. And well, before we get out
of the matrix, I know you said, it's not blankly
bad, the hustle culture, but Just from my experience,
and I guess I'll link this back to getting out
of the host culture and out of the matrix, there
are moments in times when I'm so very present,
where like, you know, I've had this conversation
before, where 3D, where 3D, right? I have an
experience that it's like more 5D, right? In
reality, but it doesn't feel like reality like
I'm so present that The reality looks really
different. Yeah, right That practice for me is
just Just causing myself to be present. I don't
know how to explain it But do you can you explain
that or do you understand what I'm saying? And
then if you do, can you explain that to people
so they can? Not be do have but still be able
to have the things they want but not live in
that hustle Yeah, I mean I think that many people
talk about this in different in different ways
I know that you have had a guest on Mariana Cooper
who talks about 3d and 5d and Which is how we
met and and so I'm such a fan of her intellect
and the intellect is reducing it like a fan of
the ways that she understands and experiences
and invites people to have an experience that
takes us out of the day to day. And so part of
how I understand that is that Since the dawn
of time, when homo sapiens existed, people have
had to pay attention more than to what they saw,
but pay attention to how the ant tracks are working
on the, you know, in the Saiyan. to understand
what's happening maybe if they're tracking animals.
From the dawn of time, there have been mothers
who understood the difference or caregivers who
understood the difference in the cry of the child
that they were rearing, right? That there is
like the sense that we have, and I think where
we are going, is to a place where people can
see the expansion of the world, see how we're
all connected, and also how we are connected
to wisdom and experience that is outside of what
day to day we learned in school. And so I believe
that That is individual for each person and it's
contextual to your culture, right? Like some
people See a different lens on reality because
they're looking at the ways the tea leaves form
in their cup others through their religious and
spiritual expression of ecstatic praise where
they go to a place where They have a different
sense of knowing sometimes it comes in their
dreams, right? Like on my mom's side of the family,
the understanding, like if you dream a fish,
somebody is pregnant. And so I think that all
of that has always existed, and we are at a place
where we can tolerate that there is more than
just being tapped into the reality that the TV
or the news wants us to know, wants us to have
as a perspective. And one of the ways to get
to that is a slowing down, is a experiencing
of being with yourself in a space. And often
that comes from slowing down through reflection,
through meditating, meditative walking. journaling,
resting and sleeping and rest and sleep we know
are two different things, where you can start
to access the truth that your body, your wisdom,
that which is greater than you, if you believe
in that, is sending you awareness and messages.
And so I am a sort of someone who integrates
what my cultural and spiritual beliefs are along
with what science tells us, and I don't feel
like you have to be either way. I feel like you
can marry the two from a science perspective.
Well, a great place where you see that is the
research on meditation that folks who meditate
for the spiritual aspects of it often are coming.
to some of the same experiences and conclusions
as those who study the impact of meditation on
our minds, our hearts, our health, our psychological
well -being. I think that's always helpful. I
talked earlier about one of the things that I
do is help people to figure out where they're
out of alignment and to get back into alignment.
The way to do that is often through some slowing
down and alternate perspective. And you describe
one of those ways as being between 3D and 5D
and understanding the difference. And I think
that these are integral tools of sort of like
a pulling back and a slowing down. I know many
entrepreneurs subscribe to and listen to your
podcast. uh that is essential for an entrepreneur
because what also doesn't work with hustle culture
as you very well know is uh saying yes to to
everything so in a business like you can't say
yes to every client just to get five dollars
you can't all work is not is not good work if
it's out of alignment and it is in that slowing
it is that and receptive state of idea and opportunity
that allows you to make the right choices for
your business or to sort of self -correct when
maybe you have made a decision and the decision
isn't working out well for you, right? That's
not necessarily a mistake. It's just an opportunity
to take a different approach sometimes. So let
me digest all that for one second. That's something
you can lots of thoughts. Oh, Michael. No, I
think that's really great. Well, what I was thinking
about, especially the last part you said when
you talk about entrepreneurs in the space where
I'm Okay, let's do a versus when I'm like always
in the work and I'm like doing this and doing
and doing and doing it's just about doing like
getting things done, but when I do take a moment
to step back and kind of collect myself and do
a just breathe a little bit. There's a difference
in just the way of being that happens and so
in that difference, there's more creativity and
more flow. And that's when I noticed like, oh,
here's a good idea. And I get to connect ideas,
um, for the businesses that I have. And there's
a flow there and I'm not just, you know, on a
hamster wheel trying to run. And I think that,
um, entrepreneurship can be more, it could be
purposeful, fulfilling, and you can still make,
you know, the kind of ends that you need to make
as far as money, um, without being burnt out.
Yeah. Yes. I'm going to say two things to that.
You know, like, and I think sometimes it's the
burnout that gets you to that awareness that
things can be different. Oftentimes. Most people,
most people don't come to see me in either my
therapy practice or my coaching practice, because
they feel so great. That's it. That's it. There
is a problem. Yeah, right. And, and so I do I
agree with you 100 % that it doesn't have to
be that way. And it takes conversations and hearing
this over and over that people can envision.
that there is a different way to be. And so if
you are someone who really just wants to take
it from a brain perspective, that slowing down
and the clarity of what your goals are allows
your brain to be working in the background so
that it can then spot opportunities for you to
take. that allow you to be in the flow with your
business. So slowing down allows you to be at
a receptive state. It allows you to give presence.
It allows you to be the observer of your thoughts,
which is something that happens also when you
meditate, rather than being so immersed in your
thoughts. And so that's one way of thinking about
it. you know, folks who talk about that from
a manifestation perspective would also say, like,
you have to slow down and you receive downloads.
And then there's this intersection between paying
attention to the neuroscience and then the manifestation.
There's an overlap between the two and all of
that very much leads you to slowing down. Um,
I have a friend who, um, is an entrepreneur that
I admire who talks about like, uh, rest is, um,
a business strategy action, right? And so, um,
I, what you say makes so much sense and, and
it makes so much sense for me. I mean, I've recently
had some new ideas about, um, my own business.
Sometimes it's sometimes you think it's a new
idea, but sometimes it is that you've slowed
down enough to feel more aware or confident of
the message that I like. I'm not saying you I
that I've received for a long time and now my
body is regulated enough to be able to hear and
take action on that advice. And It's just a wonderful,
it's just a wonderful different feeling that,
um, that, um, sometimes you have to go through
the challenge to realize that burnout is not
going to get you. It's like burnout is a dead
end street. It's a dead end street. And excuse
me, it can be, it can get serious, but you know,
you talked about, you just said regulated. I
don't think people think. About their body is
needing to be regulated And I think that that's
a powerful place to be like that word It uh,
I don't know it just it does something to me
when you say regulate regulate yourself And we
can also co -regulate right like we can be you
know people People come to me also because despite
whether or not I live my life as a calm person,
people feel a sense of calm in my presence, right?
But that also happens in positive relationships
with others, group environments where we feel
a sense of belonging and safety. But that regulation
is so important and if you don't have people
taking a walk in nature and not focusing on what's
on your phone or even listening to music, but
just paying attention to the experience of seeing
the trees, how the sun is hitting them, or how
the light is playing off the waves in the ocean,
or how the sand is is peaking and the valleys
on the beach that you're walking on. It's like
it's that that that attention to the natural
that can also help us regulate. And we need that.
I need that. No. Yeah, I think we need us just
as a collective. Yeah. To really take in those
moments that. uh that are always present but
we just don't take the moment to actually look
at it and I think those moments for me like you
said it for you but those moments for me really
helped me and I will say it regulate and I didn't
think about it that way but it really kind of
I guess another way to say it is align um align
myself and oh I love that Yeah, just get connected,
man. Just get connected with yourself. Oh, okay.
Tell me, I want to ask you, how did you learn
that? How did you learn to align, to regulate
yourself, or that it was even important? I've
never had that question asked, but what I will
say is, through my journey, through self -discovery
and putting myself in programs that really helped
me to discover who I am as a person in this,
you know, in this body. Just going through different
situations that took me outside of myself and
being in those self discovery, I don't know,
moments. I knew what felt good and what didn't.
I'll just put, I put it this way. I'd had with
a business partner, uh, we kind of had a, a moment
right out that was uncharacteristic of her. And
then, um, an old me would have bounced back and,
you know, like, yo, what are you, you know, how
you talking to me like that? You know, but what
I did was I was calm and subtle and say, okay,
we'll talk about this later after we got off
the zoom. Um, And in that moment, it was important
for me to just stay grounded within myself because
the other person that years ago where I would,
you know, you know, was a cattywamp or whatever
they call it, that person was addicted to that
kind of reaction. But the person that I become,
Loves the fact that I can stay within myself
and stay grounded think emotionally with intelligence
well about what's happening and then be okay
and then deal with it another day when you know
attitudes have calmed down and It's just been
through I think Through the moments when I was
not that I was totally opposite That I came back
to myself. It's like I don't like that person.
And that person can't solve issues. That person
can't solve what's happening. And if I can't
solve that, then I'm stuck in that moment. And
I don't want to be stuck in the past. I want
to be very, very present while I'm still creating
my future from this present moment. And that's
I just that's how I talk to myself. And it just
For me, it just, it not only feels good, but
I then get to, I get the opportunity to continue
to build what I'm building for my future. Oh,
that was beautiful. It makes me want to start
a podcast so I can interview you. Can I, I have
two things, probably more, but I'll just say
two things to that. It is so powerful. for you
to share that in in the Identities that you hold
and the life experience that you hold right to
share that about what it means as a man to pull
back from the reaction that Your life experience
your the testosterone in your body uh would tell
you to and then the messages you know would tell
you that you need to be and it's so power it's
really i appreciate you sharing that um and i
i think the another thing that it um highlights
is that you know many of us we grew up um where
we are told to keep a stiff upper lip and we
either were pushed to excel or maybe not given
attention and there were not expectations and
we decided or we were exposed to something that
leads people to watch your podcast every week,
right? And pay attention to personal development
through books and such. And I think that that
helps to create a shift in our world. You know,
I am not someone who believes that the only way
to grow is therapy. I think there are some things
that therapy is the way for, right? And then
there are things that a combination are for.
And so many of us learned patterns from those
who came before us where they didn't have the
luxury of investing in coaching or programs or
or even education, right? And we are at a time
in our history where we in many ways have the
luxury to be able to do these things and access,
right? You can get a whole PhD on Spotify and
YouTube. You may not have a paper, but like a
whole PhD, like we have access to that. And so
I think the opportunity to invest in ourselves
and then share what we learned from that investment,
I really believe provides growth and healing
that goes forward in generations and also goes
back in generations. I know that if one thing
is true about my life, I know that my study and
research and writing about self -care has made
a difference for the women in my family. I know
that the women younger than me and the women
who came before me, I know that in every fiber
of my being. And so I started this to say that
I think the beautiful thing about leadership,
leadership as an entrepreneur, leadership, if
you're leading in a job or in a community, it
truly is a personal development and spiritual
path. It gives you all kinds of opportunities
to grow and develop yourself. And I loved hearing.
the gift that you have given yourself, your family,
your business partner of your own development.
Yes, thank you. And it keeps the relationship
going because I got told I was like, okay, it's
okay. You know, we didn't kill each other. You
know, it's okay. Oh, and can I tie that back
to something? And that's how being out of hustle,
that's an example of how being out of hustle
helps to strengthen your business. Do you see
that? Because you can pull back and say, okay,
let's pull back, let's pause, and then let's
come back to this. Because quite frankly, if
we are really flooded by our emotions, then we're
not able to engage the part of our brain that
is best for planning and problem solving. I mean,
that is part of the science around that as well.
Yes. I didn't think about that, but that is so
on point because I know if it was, you know,
go, go, go, just hustling, trying to get to the
next thing, try to doing whatever the emotions
are, they're high at that moment. And yeah, I
see that. And that's why I have to write notes
because I forget what I want to connect that
to. But forget it. I'm just going to talk about
a couple of things, a couple of activities I
saw in your book. And I really want to go through
them real quick. And I was going to try to tie
it with something that you said, but I'm just
going to go into it. One of the activities, you
have 101, so they're really great. But one of
them was called I Am Worthy. Oh yeah, what page
are you on? 61. Funny how I don't have that memorized,
right? Great. And you talked about, okay, basically
it's, I'm going to read it for folks. Self -worth
is broadly defined as a deep sense of knowing.
that you have inherent value by virtue of being
alive, which is not contingent on the opinions
of others. There are many cultural messages of
how a woman should be or look that creates a
narrow view of womanhood that can erode self
-worth. Positive self -worth helps develop help
people develop a mental inner ally to squash
their inner critic and actively refute negative
messages. It requires practice to cultivate self
-worth. And in the activity, you'll strengthen
your worthiness muscles by listing all of the
reasons you are worthy. And I think one of the
things that people deal with, women in particular
because it's about that, but men as well, they
bring some of the old stories. to their situations
where they're trying to fulfill a story where
they're telling themselves that they're not worthy.
And it brings in, it brings that stuff, that
mess, right? And that story into leadership.
And can you just talk about that a little bit
and how this exercise helps? Yeah, let me paint
a picture. If you believe that you're not worthy,
and you hold a position that comes with some
authority in your business, at your job, and
people ask you smart, critical questions about
something that you have said, done, or planning
to do. that can lead folks to misuse the positional
authority that they hold. Because, oh, they don't
think I'm smart enough, they don't think I can
do it, right? And so imagine what it looks like
if you both have upleveled your awareness of
your inherent worth and or have a practice of
being in relationship with your worth. When you
are questioned, you can respond with grace, right?
And so this activity, because our self -worth
often isn't something that we think a lot about.
allows us to think about and to do it and to
give our brain evidence to draw from that helps
us to understand what makes us uniquely fabulous.
And so by doing this activity, which is to write
50 things that make you fabulous, you are giving
yourself a database. And I suggest that folks
not only do it once, but that they put it into
their calendar with regularity to come back to
that list and to add to it. You know, and none
of these activities have to be done out the box
the way they are. You can adjust it to my worth
list. Right. And so slowly over time, it helps
you to again, deepen your sense of worth. Now,
if you really want to do something, uh what you
might do is challenge the like what are the negative
thoughts that you have that challenge all of
those things of worth on your list so that you
can um see like do you need a statement that
feels more more accurate um or is there something
that you can say that you can um negate the negative
thought that you have so that you can uh build
um up the more positive ones. And I have another
activity in the book about addressing your automatic
negative thoughts that help you to practice ways
to distance yourself from those thoughts and
to decrease the power of them. A &T. I was going
to actually use that as another example. Yes,
I read that and I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, that
that that acronym, I mean, it's something that
has been in the cognitive behavioral therapy
for a long time. And Dr. Daniel Amin of the Amin
Clinic. Yeah, coined automatic negative thoughts.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was pretty.
That was pretty. Pretty dope, I'd say. All right,
I want to do one more, talk about one more here.
This is on page 97, which is daydream your way
to your career move. You know what I'm saying?
Because I put a bookmark in for this discussion
and somehow I had the sense that this is what
you were going to ask me. What? Or I felt like
we were gonna talk about some way. Oh, okay.
This is this is what this wild. That's why I
love it. I love it. Um, so let me go ahead and
just read the the activity here. You can harness
the power of visualization to see the future
outcome you desire. We visualize you shift your
sense of self to that of a person. who has met
the goal and you build your confidence in achieving
it. Doing this primes your brain to take the
opportunities in your life to bring you closer
to the hoped for outcome. So you talk for this
activity, you'll start by identifying professional
goals and spend time imagining yourself reaching
it. Please expound on that for folks. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I have two things I want to say about this.
So inspiration from this came initially from
this study I read a very long time ago about
folks who were laid off from their jobs and they
were in a re -employment program. And they found
that having job seekers visualize themselves
going on job interviews, handling the questions,
the ups and downs of the process and visualizing
how they would deal with them, that the people
who visualized had strong outcomes. So that was
the inspiration. It's also based on the notion
that our brains don't differentiate between what
is real and what is imagined and use the, the
imaginal power of our brain. to move us closer
toward our goals. And the thing that you need
to do is to be really clear about what it is
that you that you want. And I really I like the
work of James Doty, who has written two great
books and and unfortunately just passed recently.
He writes about Manifestation from a neuroscience
perspective and I leave that into my work with
folks and one of the things he talks about is
that he learned the importance of. Tuning into
your heart right when you want about what you
want so it's in alignment with the greater good
and because his studies are around compassion
and altruism and so. What I find really compelling
about that for this activity is like, you really
put your full, full senses into imagining what
you what you want. And that imagining is, is
so powerful. And you need a couple of you need
other ingredients, but two ingredients that I
will share is you need consistency of of exposure
to what that vision is, and then you also need
action. It's not enough to, well, there are different
schools of thoughts on this, but from a perspective
of leaders in businesses and such, you are often
going to need action. Made you very well with
mountain with whatever that term is like referrals,
but but at a certain point often you're going
to need to be able to know how to bring in your
own clients and customers and opportunities,
right? And so what I love about this activity
is like getting clear on what you want. And then
I suggest people then go take action like they
connect with folks on LinkedIn. or they let friends
know what they're doing in their business or
attend some networking thing or post something
on their socials. You want to take action toward
it to help sharpen the picture and get some of
the force behind what it is you're trying to
do. Yeah. I thought that was really powerful
because I'm really into that and the visualization
Um, and manifestation, but one of the things
that you just addressed, which is, um, really
take action. And I think what happens in my experience
is that. When I visualize, like even in this
conversation, I've said this before, like in
this conversation, I visualize we're actually
in a studio where you're across from me. I'm
across from you and we're talking about this
exact thing, right? And it's great to have that
and continue to have it over and over again.
That's the consistent part, but it's also taking
action. And so it's the things that I can do
to elevate this podcast. So I can actually get
into that place where, you know, we're actually
in a studio and I get to invite people to the
studio and things like that. Oh, fun. I mean,
fun. Part of what might also go into that is
that we have mirror neurons in our brain that
that communicate our intentions to other people,
right? We also know that there's this term emotional
contagion that like emotions spread in groups
of people. And there's some research that they
found I think during the pandemic that emotional
contagion can happen over online platforms when,
you know, you're having a team or work meeting.
And so I bring that up to say from the mirror
neurons perspective. Um, I, when you said that
I just had this image, like, I don't feel that
we're in different spaces. I really feel like,
I really feel like we're having an experience
of being in the room talking together. And I
didn't, I didn't notice that until you said it
until I said something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
I know like that was that's it. When I know that
when I'm having a really connected conversation,
like the teleprompter, all that kind of stuff,
it doesn't I mean, it's here, but it doesn't
really exist. It's almost as if there's a there's
a just a sense of just being in a moment. You
know, you know what I'm trying to say? Yes, yes.
Yes. Yeah. So I love that you call it. Okay.
I'm not scientific that way. But I love it. Is
it mirror? Is it mirror? Like mirror? Am I mirror
neurons? Okay. Yeah. So, okay, that's what I
wrote in my notes here. All right. You got it.
You got it. I like, you know, I'm a little bit
of a geek like that. I like to to to have a have
a label to sort of understand my experience.
Yeah, no, I totally get it. I totally understand.
You know, can you really just as we were closing
out the hour, but is there a powerful transformation
that you've seen through your work as a coach
and as a psychologist that you've seen someone
experience and pursuing like who they there they
come to you to to be? Yeah, yeah. I'm going to
talk about this in generalities because I prefer
even without names to have permission for talking
about people. But the thing that consistently
the people I work with tell me is that they through
being witnessed in our work that they feel a
greater degree of confidence in taking action
on the things that they know. And so that looks
like Starting the business that they've wanted
to start for 20 years. That looks like being
able to. Set boundaries and and accept help within
their family unit. To give them space to be able
to pursue their dreams. That looks like. The
space in which they lead. They. Along with their
team are working in a way that feels like people
have a sense of belonging and are giving their
highest contribution within their work. And I
can say for me, you know. Like many people, I
probably do this work because I'm trying to figure
some things out myself, right? And in my experience,
much of what I talk about has come from not just
what I've read about or science or helped my
clients. It's that I've also had to learn. And
for me, it has helped me to help organizations.
go from performing in a way that everybody did
what they wanted to being able to have a unified
vision to increase the public perception of their
work and thereby having more people come into
their doors. avail themselves of the services
offered because we set a collective vision and
we dealt with the things that were toxic within
the organization and that created transformations.
So I love the process. I love, love, love when
people are in the liminal space because I know
that that discomfort of being in the in -between
um is really the indication that seeds have been
planted that are going to sprout beautiful flowers
on the other side if i thought people would respond
to it like my business would have like something
liminal in the title but like i haven't found
a way to make that cute and compelling Those
are some of the transformations that I have seen.
It's like people stepping into themselves and
their unique contribution while they're here
on this Earth. Yeah. That's how I was going to
sum it up or that's how I was playing in my mind,
which is people really stepping into their purpose
and their power and being able to utilize that
in their specific areas of life. I think it's
really, that's powerful. And this is what you
offer for people. And I think that's really powerful.
This whole conversation has been out of this
world, honestly. And I don't know if you know
what I mean by that, but I think you do because
of the experience that was here. was that there
was a true connection and it was like we're a
part and we're like right here you know and I
think that's uh powerful and I think that people
will that's listening and watching will get the
sense of this as well um because the energy it
it will it expands all right um so I wanted I
wanted more questions we had I had so much but
Before we leave, there's two things. One, how
can people get in touch with you? Yeah. So, if
you heard something today that you want to hear
more of and explore what it's like to work with
me personally, you can email me at hello at cicelybrathwaite
.com. You can also go to cicelybrathwaite .com
and there you'll find a link to sign up for my
newsletter. And El Michael, I'll share with you
a link to a companion to my first book, Better
Daily Self -Care Habits. I have a... a free journal
that folks can download and then have that and
I'll share that link for you for your show notes.
So those are the ways and I'm on Instagram at
Dr. Cicely Brathwaite. But if you really want
to connect with me, hop into my email and get
on my newsletter because I have some exciting
things around the corner. I know you do. I know
you do. And last thing is what is the last, what's
something on your heart or your mind? It could
be anything that you would like to share as your
last words on this podcast this time. Oh, it
sounds like I'm going to be invited back. Oh,
yeah. What I want to say to folks, I think that
goes with the theme of the time we spent together
today is you are enough. You don't need to have
every answer. It is okay to ask for help. And
the one thing that you want to do is when you
have made an internal change you will get messages
someone will say something to you an idea will
come into your head that tells you to do something
that is the very opposite of what you would have
done before you made that internal shift don't
turn away from it that message is telling you
do you know what stop trying to pursue this contract
that you know actually is not the right thing
for your business or that message that's telling
you be more regular with your Instagram or YouTube
posts or have that conversation. That is energy
freed up that's allowing the new. Don't turn
away from it. Don't turn away from it. Dr. Sicily,
I want to say thank you from the depth of my
soul in my heart for your time being here. You're
a doctor in Manhattan. So you got things you
could be doing and you took the time out to share
your message with me and our audience and you
did not disappoint and you showed up fully and
I truly appreciate it. So thank you so much.
El Michael, this has been a nourishing conversation.
I enjoyed, I enjoy your preparation and your
diligence in shedding. information and support
to your listeners. I've seen the breadth of the
information that you share with the guests that
you have, and that's a unique and special contribution.
And so I'm really proud to be part of the contribution
that you're making today. Thank you. Thank you
very much. You know, thank you all for tuning
in and listening and watching. And as we always
say, let's make thriving our new normal, and
we'll see you next week. Before you go, I just
want to say thank you. Thank you for being a
part of the Thrive Bull journey. Every time you
show up here, you're choosing growth, clarity,
and the deeper work of becoming who you're meant
to be in this world. And if you're ready to reconnect
with what truly lights you up, I created something
powerful that can help you. It's called the Empowered
Path. Seven days to reclaim your purpose and
passion. It's a beautifully designed guided workbook
that walks you through a week of powerful prompts,
clarity building tools, and real mindset shifts.
Now you can get instant access to it today. It's
a small investment for a huge return. Your energy,
your clarity, your alignment, and if you want
to take it deeper, check this out. I'm offering
a limited number of free 30 -minute purpose coaching
sessions. No pressure, no pitch, just space for
you to reconnect with your direction, your gifts,
and what's next. So you can grab the guide and
book your session at the link in the show notes.
Let's not just go through the motions. Let's
really walk this path on purpose. I appreciate
you. And like we always say, let's make thriving
our new normal. And I'll talk to you soon.