WEBVTT

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There's a kind of success people don't talk about.

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The kind that looks good on the outside but calls

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to your peace on the inside. And far too many

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of us are achieving while quietly abandoning

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ourselves. If you ever hit a goal and still felt

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empty, if you've ever hustled so hard you forgot

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who you were doing it for, this conversation

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is for you. Because success was never meant.

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to require your soul. And so the first thing

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is to get good at discerning what it is you need

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to actively cope with and what it is that disengagement

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coping is important. When there's an emergency,

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you don't have time for feeling. You have to

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handle it. But in most cases in our lives, we're

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not experiencing emergency. And so, because we're

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not experiencing emergency, in many ways we can

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take some time to say, ouch, you know, that thing

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hurt me that you said. And that's why today's

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conversation matters. Because what if success

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didn't have to hurt? What if you could lead,

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build, grow, and still protect the most important

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parts of you? Your mind, your identity, your

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peace. Dr. Cicely Horsham -Braithwaite. has spent

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her life helping high achievers leaders and world

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changers do exactly that and in her book self

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-care activities for women she gives both women

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and men permission and a plan to succeed without

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abandoning themselves in the process so before

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we step into the full conversation i want you

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to take a breath release whatever you've been

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carrying today and open yourself up to this conversation

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hey there Look, my hope is that the Thravo journey

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meets you exactly where you are and helps you

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rise into who you're here to be. It's 2025 and

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this is your year to thrive despite what the

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world is throwing at us. And our desire is that

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our conversations inspire you, bring clarity,

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and give you a reason to breathe deeper. So our

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ask is that you take a moment to subscribe, download

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the episode, and follow us on your favorite RSS

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platform. Your support doesn't just help the

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show grow. It helps build a space that's rooted

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in your evolution. And that means everything

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to me and the TTJ team. Now, if you're ready

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to go beyond the episodes, come join our private

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Thrive Wheel of Journey discussion group on Facebook.

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We're walking through a 22 -week series built

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to anchor each week in intention, purpose, and

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meaningful connection. I do so look forward to

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hearing your voice and can't wait to see you

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in the group. But for right now, let's get into

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it. Well, you know, uh again, we're starting

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the podcast. I just really wanna and I explain,

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I expressed it to you already and I just wanna

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welcome you to the Thoroughbore Journey podcast

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and I'm excited, so excited to really have you

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on the podcast. So, welcome Dr. Cicely. Um I

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know it's horse ham break weight. Um so, can

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I call you Dr. Cicely? Yes, yes, absolutely,

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Michael. So welcome. Thank you. Thank you for

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having me. We had such a lovely conversation

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and connection when we met. And so I am delighted

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to continue our conversation today and see where

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it goes. Yes, yes. prep for this and ready for

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you because you are a doctor, you're a psychologist,

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you're a coach. And I had to level up. So I had

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to make sure I'm ready to have a great conversation

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with you. But before we get going, I really wanted

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to because you took the privilege of sending

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me your book. And there's self care activities

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for women, 101 practical ways to slow down and

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reconnect with yourself. And I'm going to promote

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this right now because I really want uh women

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to go get this and I know it's for women but

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there's some activities in here for men um so

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don't feel if you walk around this book don't

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feel bad so this is an this is an excellent book

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and we'll talk about it so wow thank you for

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writing this um I gifted this to my sister oh

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one of my sisters and um she's going to take

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it from me as soon as we're done here. Well,

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and make sure I look at some of the activities

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that you feel called to because a lot of the

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research that drives the suggestions that I've

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made don't take gender into account. So the writing

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and the conceptualizing of some of the things

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that are unique to women is is what leads the

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book to be focused on activities for women. For

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some reason, both my books, the publisher picked

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the colors and they're both pink. My first book

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doesn't say it's just about women, but I've had

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several... uh, folks tell me that the men in

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their lives have been carrying it around. And,

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and, um, so, so go for it. That's what I'm talking

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about. So man, you guys get this too. I mean,

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we'll talk about a couple of, um, um, activities

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in here that I, that I really connected with

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app. There's a lot of them, but there's two that

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I want to specifically talk about. And throughout

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the conversation, I really want people to have

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this question playing around in their mind. and

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leave these in the comments, which is, if you

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had to make a change in your life, and if you

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fully believed it was possible, what would be

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your next level move? And through this conversation,

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we'll be talking about that, I'm sure, to speak

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to you. And so just have that question in your

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mind. As I was doing the research after we connect

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and I was like I need to know more about her

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and see what's going with her and You have a

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very interesting story. You had Caribbean and

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American parents, right? Yeah, and how did how

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did that you talked about that a little bit?

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How did that influence who you are today as far

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as you know? You get into the role that you're

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in right now and just your world. Yeah, I mean

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I so many ways probably ways that As I grow and

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change become will become more and more apparent

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to me so my dad is from Trinidad and he migrated

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to Canada and then the United States and my mom

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is from South Carolina and and she is part of

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the Gullah Geechee ethnic group and They migrated

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from South Carolina to New York. And so what

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I've come to realize is that having the experience

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of parents who knew what it was like to be outsiders,

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they had to learn to translate the environment

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and make sense of it while also remaining true

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to themselves and who they are and maintaining

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their cultural heritage, not feeling like they

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had to shed it. But also that's a delicate dance,

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right? They also had to figure out how to translate

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and live between worlds. And so I come from people

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who for a variety of reasons left their home

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to search for a better opportunity for themselves

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and their families, right? And I think that that

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set me up well for what I do today, which is

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to listen to the needs that people and organizations

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have and read between the lines. Because when

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you straddle culture, you have to read between

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the lines. And I think that that set me up very

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well to go through my doctoral education and

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then work in the environments as well as in my

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business that I have worked in because I... can

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be part of and know how to step outside and observe.

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And I think one of my particular gifts is to

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be able to spot what is out of alignment and

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help individuals, teams and organizations and

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companies get themselves back into alignment.

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What are the shifts that get them there? And

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so my work is to be an observer of culture. And

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I learned it from people who um to survive learn

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to observe culture yeah i think this is actually

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a really powerful place and then to have someone

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to come in that can see something that's probably

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not working for them um come in just make a shift

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um in someone's mindset or just a way that do

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things um and you also like you you've had influences

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and i took in your story that i found out there

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was um in your undergrad before you got to your

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um your doctoral degree. You had somebody that

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was very influential to you. Can you talk about

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that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know

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her name. Her name is Dr. Angela Byers. And she

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was not doctor yet, but I met her at a conference

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in New Mexico. I think it was New Mexico. It

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may not have been. It was somewhere. It might

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have been Atlanta. She was doing a presentation

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and I had the chance to just observe her. She

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was another woman of African descent and she

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just... she spoke and presented in a way that

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felt familiar to me. And while I had had a role

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model, my uncle, who is close in age to me, is

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also a psychologist. So he was in his doctoral

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program, but he's a man. And just to see her,

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I felt like this thing that I have placed on

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my mind and heart that I've been saying I want

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to do, I can actually do it. And so seeing her

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be in that space was sort of like a magnet that

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helped draw me toward where I was meant to go,

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right? Like that magnet is there, but I've come

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to realize that that pull is there, but we often

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need sturdy role models to help us to envision

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Getting there and she was that for me. I remember

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years later after I'd already completed my training

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and and was a psychologist I happened upon her

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somewhere and And again like it was a chance

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quick meeting and let her know what she meant

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to me And and that was just a beautiful opportunity

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to have that chance. Yeah, I think it's that's

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pretty awesome and profound because to have someone

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to look up to or see in the space that you want

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to be in and and not necessarily know where you

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want to go but have some kind of a north star

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it's it's it's pretty great first of all and

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i know that some people may not have that and

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to have that is a gift right And so that led

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you into really your focus, really. And so I

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want to talk about a little bit about that, which

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is social cognitive therapy. Is that what it

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is? So one of the theories that I used in my

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dissertation research is a career theory called

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social cognitive career theory taken from social

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cognitive theory. And basically it looks at things

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like how The opportunities that we see our assessment

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of the barriers we face to our career goals play

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a role in our lives. And it's the accuracy of

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sort of understanding those barriers that helps

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us to then take action that. allows us to navigate

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those barriers successfully. And part of how

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we might do that is to have experiences that

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strengthen our self -efficacy, our belief that

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our effort can produce the outcomes that we're

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moving toward. It's about being able to see other

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people do things that have been placed in our

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mind and heart and help us to understand that

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it is possible. And then having that awareness,

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taking action to move us towards that goal, and

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then adjusting along the way. And so I think

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it's helpful to have that framework in mind.

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And part of the reason I drew from that framework

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is that I was studying the experiences of African

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-American women who had been on public assistance,

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what helped them to transition to work, what

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were some of the inner strategies that they used

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to move forward. And I mean, there's barriers

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in different situations. Can you speak to some

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of the barriers and how someone can overcome

00:14:35.659 --> 00:14:40.879
a barrier in their specific situation? Yeah.

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Okay. The number one thing that I find when I'm

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working with folks is that, well, there are a

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few, but the thing that stands out that I think

00:14:50.500 --> 00:14:57.980
is a framework is that active versus disengaged

00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:04.059
coping makes the difference. So every day we're

00:15:04.059 --> 00:15:06.799
confronted with things that we have to cope with.

00:15:08.100 --> 00:15:12.379
And quite frankly, if you belong to any group

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that has historically experienced some sort of

00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:19.919
marginalization, I know we're on here, but I'm

00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:21.860
seeing something in my glasses that I'm trying

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to get rid of. And I think it's just a shadow.

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So I think that's what it is. So she's in my

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eye. So every day we're confronted with things.

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And if if our brain and if our sort of like mind

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and awareness allowed us to cope with every single

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thing, we just wouldn't get anything done. We

00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:49.120
would be stuck. We would be paralyzed. But if

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you belong to any group that has experienced

00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:58.289
some form of marginalization, whether that's

00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:03.070
poverty due to inequities regarding race, gender,

00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:07.789
whatever the thing is. The way that many of the

00:16:07.789 --> 00:16:10.950
places where we live are structured is that if

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you were to pay attention to all of the slights

00:16:14.269 --> 00:16:17.190
in the course of your day, that you just, again,

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you wouldn't get anything done. Right. And so

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often too much. So often we sort of push things

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away. Right. And so like, for my people, it might

00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.659
be like, I'm not studying them. I'm not paying

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attention to what they said or did. I'm just

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going to keep on moving. And what happens is

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that we when we when we generalize that to every

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kind of like, thing that we are coping with,

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it can lead us to be engaged in disengaged coping.

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And so what we want to do is actively cope with

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and address the things that come up that may

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be barriers to the thing we're trying to do.

00:17:05.180 --> 00:17:09.359
And so the first thing is to... Here on the Thrival

00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.019
Journey, we talk a lot about not just surviving,

00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.420
but thriving. And a big part of that for me has

00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:17.940
been understanding my health on a deeper level.

00:17:18.089 --> 00:17:20.549
That's why I partnered with Livegood and brought

00:17:20.549 --> 00:17:23.509
it under my company, Orion's Health. Not just

00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:25.470
because I believe in the products, but because

00:17:25.470 --> 00:17:28.529
I've seen what they can do firsthand. I've walked

00:17:28.529 --> 00:17:30.829
through some hard health chapters in my life,

00:17:30.930 --> 00:17:34.269
including cancer and a kidney transplant. And

00:17:34.269 --> 00:17:37.549
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00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.900
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00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:25.900
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00:18:25.900 --> 00:18:28.539
or health regimen. Your body is unique and your

00:18:28.539 --> 00:18:30.460
healthcare provider should always be part of

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the conversation. The links are in the show notes.

00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.160
Now tap in and take your next step toward thriving.

00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:42.420
Get good at discerning what it is you need to

00:18:42.420 --> 00:18:47.049
actively cope with. and what it is that disengagement

00:18:47.049 --> 00:18:50.049
coping is important. When there's an emergency,

00:18:50.329 --> 00:18:52.690
you don't have time for feelings. You have to,

00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.069
you have to handle it. But in most cases in our

00:18:56.069 --> 00:19:00.049
lives, we're not experiencing emergency. And

00:19:00.049 --> 00:19:03.349
so because we're not experiencing emergency,

00:19:03.789 --> 00:19:08.069
in many ways we can take some time to say, ouch,

00:19:08.630 --> 00:19:12.849
you know, that thing hurt me that you said, or,

00:19:13.170 --> 00:19:18.880
you know, I'm feeling tired. And so once you

00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:24.400
acknowledge the ouch, the feeling, the emotion

00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:31.380
tending to it is a way of actively coping. And

00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:36.240
that I think making that switch between I just

00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:40.059
push everything away and keep it moving. to a

00:19:40.059 --> 00:19:43.240
more refined, there's some things I give my attention

00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:51.619
to and some things I don't, is really, I think,

00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:55.740
the first switch that people need to take. And

00:19:55.740 --> 00:20:00.180
because I talk about self -care as part of my

00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:05.400
contribution to leaders to entrepreneurs, I talk

00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.380
about three different types of self care that

00:20:08.380 --> 00:20:11.640
are anchors to help with the ways in which we

00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:13.500
cope. And we can, you know, we can certainly

00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:15.920
talk about that. Yeah, we'll get definitely get

00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:20.539
to that. Because I'm excited for us to actually

00:20:20.539 --> 00:20:23.779
go over these. But you talked about push, you

00:20:23.779 --> 00:20:26.960
push away and keep things moving. Do you find

00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:32.230
that very? I know you talked you dealt with life

00:20:32.230 --> 00:20:34.930
during the pandemic, the COVID -19 pandemic.

00:20:36.650 --> 00:20:40.450
Americans have always been a hustle culture,

00:20:40.509 --> 00:20:45.049
but it seems like more so now than before. Do

00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:50.549
you find that a lot of people embrace that hustle

00:20:50.549 --> 00:20:53.329
culture, which I definitely did for a minute,

00:20:53.470 --> 00:20:59.740
but not so much now anymore? Like, don't stop

00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:02.720
to acknowledge the ouch or acknowledge the things

00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:06.279
that keeps them from really taking care of themselves.

00:21:07.539 --> 00:21:11.039
Yeah. I mean, look, I think it's easy for us

00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.140
to look at that from an individual perspective.

00:21:14.539 --> 00:21:18.279
Yes, I find that many folks are doing that. to

00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:20.819
some extent, what it takes to change that is

00:21:20.819 --> 00:21:23.660
that individuals have to change. And when we

00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:26.740
were living under the global pandemic conditions,

00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.380
depending on where you lived, it forced many

00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:34.880
people to slow down. But what I think is that

00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.559
the larger context is that we call it hostile

00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:40.880
culture, because there are many aspects of our

00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:48.430
daily lives that are compelling us to to hustle

00:21:48.430 --> 00:21:55.210
right yeah so um our phones are designed to keep

00:21:55.210 --> 00:22:02.369
us engaged and to take us down a rabbit hole

00:22:02.369 --> 00:22:05.509
and i love a good rabbit hole as well as the

00:22:05.509 --> 00:22:11.609
next person right i think we all do right right

00:22:11.609 --> 00:22:17.099
and um And part of what we consume tells us that

00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:20.740
we can always be better and different. And so

00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:24.980
that adds to it. And then our devices are these

00:22:24.980 --> 00:22:29.160
like wonders in little tiny machines that give

00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:34.259
us 24 hour access to the world and the world

00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:37.980
24 hour access to us. And what they're doing

00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:41.460
is really hitting the dopamine centers of our

00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:45.079
brain. And calling us back and back and back

00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:47.420
and they're doing it on sort of an intermittent

00:22:47.420 --> 00:22:53.880
response pattern like the the slot machines in

00:22:53.880 --> 00:23:02.240
the. Right and so so. And we are we are our culture

00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.759
is organized around consumption and I'm not going

00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.140
to say any of those things are blanketly bad

00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:11.200
right not at all what I am going to say is that.

00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:15.680
So it is easy to get caught up in being and doing

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:21.259
and having, and to be, do and have often requires,

00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:25.240
we believe, hustling. And so as someone like

00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:28.819
yourself who dabbled in that and realized like

00:23:28.819 --> 00:23:31.660
you were getting out of the matrix, I think it

00:23:31.660 --> 00:23:35.079
takes conversations like this from a variety

00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:40.740
of people giving that message for folks to consider.

00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:46.500
the importance of pausing, right? And Dr. Sandra

00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:48.980
Dalton, I think Smith is her name, who writes

00:23:48.980 --> 00:23:53.039
about rest, talks about the seven types of rest.

00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:55.740
I think part of how we get out of hustle culture

00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:59.599
is that we disconnect a little bit and then notice

00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:04.339
what becomes clearer. And so that we can develop

00:24:04.339 --> 00:24:13.970
a more regulated tapping into our achievement

00:24:13.970 --> 00:24:18.369
and manifesting. And so I think what flips the

00:24:18.369 --> 00:24:24.349
switch for people is recognizing you can have

00:24:24.349 --> 00:24:28.549
many of the things that you want, probably need

00:24:28.549 --> 00:24:30.730
to get really clear about what it is you want.

00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:33.549
And there are ways to bring it forth to you that

00:24:33.549 --> 00:24:35.769
don't require hustle. I don't know if that's

00:24:35.769 --> 00:24:38.460
what you asked me, but that's what I want. to

00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:43.599
you. That's no, I don't know what you asked,

00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:47.500
but that's what I want to say. You got it. And

00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:49.740
it's perfect. Because there's a couple things

00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:52.660
that you talked about. I guess I might as well

00:24:52.660 --> 00:24:54.359
just go in this direction. You talked about getting

00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:59.279
out of the matrix. And well, before we get out

00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.759
of the matrix, I know you said, it's not blankly

00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:08.579
bad, the hustle culture, but Just from my experience,

00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:11.880
and I guess I'll link this back to getting out

00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:16.059
of the host culture and out of the matrix, there

00:25:16.059 --> 00:25:18.880
are moments in times when I'm so very present,

00:25:20.140 --> 00:25:23.500
where like, you know, I've had this conversation

00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:30.380
before, where 3D, where 3D, right? I have an

00:25:30.380 --> 00:25:35.420
experience that it's like more 5D, right? In

00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:37.920
reality, but it doesn't feel like reality like

00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.079
I'm so present that The reality looks really

00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:47.440
different. Yeah, right That practice for me is

00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:52.140
just Just causing myself to be present. I don't

00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:56.019
know how to explain it But do you can you explain

00:25:56.019 --> 00:25:57.740
that or do you understand what I'm saying? And

00:25:57.740 --> 00:26:00.799
then if you do, can you explain that to people

00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.549
so they can? Not be do have but still be able

00:26:04.549 --> 00:26:06.849
to have the things they want but not live in

00:26:06.849 --> 00:26:11.230
that hustle Yeah, I mean I think that many people

00:26:11.230 --> 00:26:14.069
talk about this in different in different ways

00:26:14.069 --> 00:26:18.490
I know that you have had a guest on Mariana Cooper

00:26:18.490 --> 00:26:23.950
who talks about 3d and 5d and Which is how we

00:26:23.950 --> 00:26:32.579
met and and so I'm such a fan of her intellect

00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:38.599
and the intellect is reducing it like a fan of

00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.680
the ways that she understands and experiences

00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:46.299
and invites people to have an experience that

00:26:46.299 --> 00:26:51.799
takes us out of the day to day. And so part of

00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:59.730
how I understand that is that Since the dawn

00:26:59.730 --> 00:27:07.809
of time, when homo sapiens existed, people have

00:27:07.809 --> 00:27:15.529
had to pay attention more than to what they saw,

00:27:16.470 --> 00:27:24.109
but pay attention to how the ant tracks are working

00:27:24.109 --> 00:27:29.630
on the, you know, in the Saiyan. to understand

00:27:29.630 --> 00:27:32.549
what's happening maybe if they're tracking animals.

00:27:33.809 --> 00:27:38.470
From the dawn of time, there have been mothers

00:27:38.470 --> 00:27:42.289
who understood the difference or caregivers who

00:27:42.289 --> 00:27:46.470
understood the difference in the cry of the child

00:27:46.470 --> 00:27:48.869
that they were rearing, right? That there is

00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:55.190
like the sense that we have, and I think where

00:27:55.190 --> 00:28:02.009
we are going, is to a place where people can

00:28:02.009 --> 00:28:06.549
see the expansion of the world, see how we're

00:28:06.549 --> 00:28:09.769
all connected, and also how we are connected

00:28:09.769 --> 00:28:14.730
to wisdom and experience that is outside of what

00:28:14.730 --> 00:28:22.569
day to day we learned in school. And so I believe

00:28:22.569 --> 00:28:29.049
that That is individual for each person and it's

00:28:29.049 --> 00:28:32.289
contextual to your culture, right? Like some

00:28:32.289 --> 00:28:37.750
people See a different lens on reality because

00:28:37.750 --> 00:28:39.769
they're looking at the ways the tea leaves form

00:28:39.769 --> 00:28:43.150
in their cup others through their religious and

00:28:43.150 --> 00:28:47.730
spiritual expression of ecstatic praise where

00:28:47.730 --> 00:28:53.190
they go to a place where They have a different

00:28:53.190 --> 00:28:56.730
sense of knowing sometimes it comes in their

00:28:56.730 --> 00:29:00.670
dreams, right? Like on my mom's side of the family,

00:29:02.450 --> 00:29:06.349
the understanding, like if you dream a fish,

00:29:06.490 --> 00:29:14.210
somebody is pregnant. And so I think that all

00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:17.289
of that has always existed, and we are at a place

00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:22.250
where we can tolerate that there is more than

00:29:22.250 --> 00:29:27.599
just being tapped into the reality that the TV

00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:32.200
or the news wants us to know, wants us to have

00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:34.420
as a perspective. And one of the ways to get

00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:41.400
to that is a slowing down, is a experiencing

00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:46.779
of being with yourself in a space. And often

00:29:46.779 --> 00:29:49.519
that comes from slowing down through reflection,

00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:55.990
through meditating, meditative walking. journaling,

00:29:56.150 --> 00:29:58.710
resting and sleeping and rest and sleep we know

00:29:58.710 --> 00:30:01.029
are two different things, where you can start

00:30:01.029 --> 00:30:05.150
to access the truth that your body, your wisdom,

00:30:05.410 --> 00:30:07.549
that which is greater than you, if you believe

00:30:07.549 --> 00:30:13.170
in that, is sending you awareness and messages.

00:30:14.309 --> 00:30:21.650
And so I am a sort of someone who integrates

00:30:21.650 --> 00:30:26.440
what my cultural and spiritual beliefs are along

00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:30.980
with what science tells us, and I don't feel

00:30:30.980 --> 00:30:33.119
like you have to be either way. I feel like you

00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.579
can marry the two from a science perspective.

00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.680
Well, a great place where you see that is the

00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:44.140
research on meditation that folks who meditate

00:30:44.140 --> 00:30:48.960
for the spiritual aspects of it often are coming.

00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.039
to some of the same experiences and conclusions

00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.059
as those who study the impact of meditation on

00:30:56.059 --> 00:31:01.779
our minds, our hearts, our health, our psychological

00:31:01.779 --> 00:31:06.619
well -being. I think that's always helpful. I

00:31:06.619 --> 00:31:08.579
talked earlier about one of the things that I

00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:11.380
do is help people to figure out where they're

00:31:11.380 --> 00:31:14.380
out of alignment and to get back into alignment.

00:31:17.710 --> 00:31:22.130
The way to do that is often through some slowing

00:31:22.130 --> 00:31:25.269
down and alternate perspective. And you describe

00:31:25.269 --> 00:31:28.950
one of those ways as being between 3D and 5D

00:31:28.950 --> 00:31:33.190
and understanding the difference. And I think

00:31:33.190 --> 00:31:36.109
that these are integral tools of sort of like

00:31:36.109 --> 00:31:39.369
a pulling back and a slowing down. I know many

00:31:39.369 --> 00:31:43.289
entrepreneurs subscribe to and listen to your

00:31:43.289 --> 00:31:47.230
podcast. uh that is essential for an entrepreneur

00:31:47.230 --> 00:31:52.390
because what also doesn't work with hustle culture

00:31:52.390 --> 00:31:58.789
as you very well know is uh saying yes to to

00:31:58.789 --> 00:32:01.890
everything so in a business like you can't say

00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:04.710
yes to every client just to get five dollars

00:32:04.710 --> 00:32:08.269
you can't all work is not is not good work if

00:32:08.269 --> 00:32:10.869
it's out of alignment and it is in that slowing

00:32:10.869 --> 00:32:17.220
it is that and receptive state of idea and opportunity

00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:20.119
that allows you to make the right choices for

00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:24.559
your business or to sort of self -correct when

00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:31.160
maybe you have made a decision and the decision

00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:33.880
isn't working out well for you, right? That's

00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:36.460
not necessarily a mistake. It's just an opportunity

00:32:36.460 --> 00:32:44.940
to take a different approach sometimes. So let

00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:50.799
me digest all that for one second. That's something

00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:56.039
you can lots of thoughts. Oh, Michael. No, I

00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.680
think that's really great. Well, what I was thinking

00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.440
about, especially the last part you said when

00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.200
you talk about entrepreneurs in the space where

00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:10.200
I'm Okay, let's do a versus when I'm like always

00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:11.940
in the work and I'm like doing this and doing

00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:14.619
and doing and doing it's just about doing like

00:33:14.619 --> 00:33:17.960
getting things done, but when I do take a moment

00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:23.839
to step back and kind of collect myself and do

00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:28.980
a just breathe a little bit. There's a difference

00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:32.500
in just the way of being that happens and so

00:33:32.500 --> 00:33:36.099
in that difference, there's more creativity and

00:33:36.099 --> 00:33:40.480
more flow. And that's when I noticed like, oh,

00:33:40.819 --> 00:33:44.279
here's a good idea. And I get to connect ideas,

00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:49.240
um, for the businesses that I have. And there's

00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.839
a flow there and I'm not just, you know, on a

00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:58.119
hamster wheel trying to run. And I think that,

00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:02.180
um, entrepreneurship can be more, it could be

00:34:02.180 --> 00:34:05.440
purposeful, fulfilling, and you can still make,

00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:07.730
you know, the kind of ends that you need to make

00:34:07.730 --> 00:34:11.969
as far as money, um, without being burnt out.

00:34:13.809 --> 00:34:18.250
Yeah. Yes. I'm going to say two things to that.

00:34:18.250 --> 00:34:24.110
You know, like, and I think sometimes it's the

00:34:24.110 --> 00:34:27.030
burnout that gets you to that awareness that

00:34:27.030 --> 00:34:30.510
things can be different. Oftentimes. Most people,

00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:33.289
most people don't come to see me in either my

00:34:33.469 --> 00:34:36.389
therapy practice or my coaching practice, because

00:34:36.389 --> 00:34:43.090
they feel so great. That's it. That's it. There

00:34:43.090 --> 00:34:50.550
is a problem. Yeah, right. And, and so I do I

00:34:50.550 --> 00:34:55.730
agree with you 100 % that it doesn't have to

00:34:55.730 --> 00:34:59.510
be that way. And it takes conversations and hearing

00:34:59.510 --> 00:35:02.329
this over and over that people can envision.

00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:08.420
that there is a different way to be. And so if

00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:12.000
you are someone who really just wants to take

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:18.599
it from a brain perspective, that slowing down

00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:23.579
and the clarity of what your goals are allows

00:35:23.579 --> 00:35:27.619
your brain to be working in the background so

00:35:27.619 --> 00:35:30.719
that it can then spot opportunities for you to

00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:34.469
take. that allow you to be in the flow with your

00:35:34.469 --> 00:35:38.670
business. So slowing down allows you to be at

00:35:38.670 --> 00:35:43.210
a receptive state. It allows you to give presence.

00:35:43.469 --> 00:35:47.110
It allows you to be the observer of your thoughts,

00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:49.110
which is something that happens also when you

00:35:49.110 --> 00:35:52.670
meditate, rather than being so immersed in your

00:35:52.670 --> 00:35:57.670
thoughts. And so that's one way of thinking about

00:35:57.670 --> 00:36:01.590
it. you know, folks who talk about that from

00:36:01.590 --> 00:36:04.590
a manifestation perspective would also say, like,

00:36:04.650 --> 00:36:07.309
you have to slow down and you receive downloads.

00:36:07.869 --> 00:36:10.610
And then there's this intersection between paying

00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:14.789
attention to the neuroscience and then the manifestation.

00:36:15.630 --> 00:36:18.750
There's an overlap between the two and all of

00:36:18.750 --> 00:36:24.650
that very much leads you to slowing down. Um,

00:36:24.750 --> 00:36:27.809
I have a friend who, um, is an entrepreneur that

00:36:27.809 --> 00:36:33.849
I admire who talks about like, uh, rest is, um,

00:36:34.110 --> 00:36:40.369
a business strategy action, right? And so, um,

00:36:40.750 --> 00:36:46.010
I, what you say makes so much sense and, and

00:36:46.010 --> 00:36:49.050
it makes so much sense for me. I mean, I've recently

00:36:49.050 --> 00:36:54.550
had some new ideas about, um, my own business.

00:36:54.849 --> 00:36:56.630
Sometimes it's sometimes you think it's a new

00:36:56.630 --> 00:36:58.789
idea, but sometimes it is that you've slowed

00:36:58.789 --> 00:37:03.469
down enough to feel more aware or confident of

00:37:03.469 --> 00:37:06.489
the message that I like. I'm not saying you I

00:37:06.489 --> 00:37:10.269
that I've received for a long time and now my

00:37:10.269 --> 00:37:15.469
body is regulated enough to be able to hear and

00:37:15.469 --> 00:37:21.719
take action on that advice. And It's just a wonderful,

00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:25.900
it's just a wonderful different feeling that,

00:37:25.900 --> 00:37:33.239
um, that, um, sometimes you have to go through

00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:36.739
the challenge to realize that burnout is not

00:37:36.739 --> 00:37:39.659
going to get you. It's like burnout is a dead

00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:43.719
end street. It's a dead end street. And excuse

00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.659
me, it can be, it can get serious, but you know,

00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:48.079
you talked about, you just said regulated. I

00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:51.699
don't think people think. About their body is

00:37:51.699 --> 00:37:55.440
needing to be regulated And I think that that's

00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.800
a powerful place to be like that word It uh,

00:38:01.059 --> 00:38:03.199
I don't know it just it does something to me

00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:13.300
when you say regulate regulate yourself And we

00:38:13.300 --> 00:38:16.420
can also co -regulate right like we can be you

00:38:16.420 --> 00:38:23.019
know people People come to me also because despite

00:38:23.019 --> 00:38:26.920
whether or not I live my life as a calm person,

00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.199
people feel a sense of calm in my presence, right?

00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:37.000
But that also happens in positive relationships

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.400
with others, group environments where we feel

00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:45.119
a sense of belonging and safety. But that regulation

00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:49.340
is so important and if you don't have people

00:38:49.340 --> 00:38:55.340
taking a walk in nature and not focusing on what's

00:38:55.340 --> 00:38:57.800
on your phone or even listening to music, but

00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:03.500
just paying attention to the experience of seeing

00:39:03.500 --> 00:39:08.079
the trees, how the sun is hitting them, or how

00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:10.900
the light is playing off the waves in the ocean,

00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:18.789
or how the sand is is peaking and the valleys

00:39:18.789 --> 00:39:20.769
on the beach that you're walking on. It's like

00:39:20.769 --> 00:39:28.489
it's that that that attention to the natural

00:39:28.489 --> 00:39:32.929
that can also help us regulate. And we need that.

00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:36.010
I need that. No. Yeah, I think we need us just

00:39:36.010 --> 00:39:39.630
as a collective. Yeah. To really take in those

00:39:39.630 --> 00:39:43.130
moments that. uh that are always present but

00:39:43.130 --> 00:39:45.150
we just don't take the moment to actually look

00:39:45.150 --> 00:39:48.170
at it and I think those moments for me like you

00:39:48.170 --> 00:39:51.909
said it for you but those moments for me really

00:39:51.909 --> 00:39:54.230
helped me and I will say it regulate and I didn't

00:39:54.230 --> 00:39:58.190
think about it that way but it really kind of

00:39:58.190 --> 00:40:01.650
I guess another way to say it is align um align

00:40:01.650 --> 00:40:07.090
myself and oh I love that Yeah, just get connected,

00:40:07.309 --> 00:40:09.570
man. Just get connected with yourself. Oh, okay.

00:40:09.750 --> 00:40:12.210
Tell me, I want to ask you, how did you learn

00:40:12.210 --> 00:40:16.130
that? How did you learn to align, to regulate

00:40:16.130 --> 00:40:22.130
yourself, or that it was even important? I've

00:40:22.130 --> 00:40:25.469
never had that question asked, but what I will

00:40:25.469 --> 00:40:32.469
say is, through my journey, through self -discovery

00:40:32.469 --> 00:40:37.329
and putting myself in programs that really helped

00:40:37.329 --> 00:40:40.110
me to discover who I am as a person in this,

00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:46.710
you know, in this body. Just going through different

00:40:46.710 --> 00:40:51.789
situations that took me outside of myself and

00:40:51.789 --> 00:40:56.690
being in those self discovery, I don't know,

00:40:56.929 --> 00:41:01.829
moments. I knew what felt good and what didn't.

00:41:04.769 --> 00:41:06.969
I'll just put, I put it this way. I'd had with

00:41:06.969 --> 00:41:10.469
a business partner, uh, we kind of had a, a moment

00:41:10.469 --> 00:41:13.530
right out that was uncharacteristic of her. And

00:41:13.530 --> 00:41:19.510
then, um, an old me would have bounced back and,

00:41:19.670 --> 00:41:21.610
you know, like, yo, what are you, you know, how

00:41:21.610 --> 00:41:24.730
you talking to me like that? You know, but what

00:41:24.730 --> 00:41:29.510
I did was I was calm and subtle and say, okay,

00:41:29.530 --> 00:41:31.530
we'll talk about this later after we got off

00:41:31.530 --> 00:41:38.780
the zoom. Um, And in that moment, it was important

00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:44.019
for me to just stay grounded within myself because

00:41:44.019 --> 00:41:46.840
the other person that years ago where I would,

00:41:47.019 --> 00:41:51.480
you know, you know, was a cattywamp or whatever

00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:58.059
they call it, that person was addicted to that

00:41:58.059 --> 00:42:02.300
kind of reaction. But the person that I become,

00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:07.019
Loves the fact that I can stay within myself

00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:12.539
and stay grounded think emotionally with intelligence

00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:15.860
well about what's happening and then be okay

00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:19.800
and then deal with it another day when you know

00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:24.460
attitudes have calmed down and It's just been

00:42:24.460 --> 00:42:28.320
through I think Through the moments when I was

00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.269
not that I was totally opposite That I came back

00:42:31.269 --> 00:42:33.710
to myself. It's like I don't like that person.

00:42:34.530 --> 00:42:37.809
And that person can't solve issues. That person

00:42:37.809 --> 00:42:42.190
can't solve what's happening. And if I can't

00:42:42.190 --> 00:42:46.230
solve that, then I'm stuck in that moment. And

00:42:46.230 --> 00:42:48.849
I don't want to be stuck in the past. I want

00:42:48.849 --> 00:42:52.050
to be very, very present while I'm still creating

00:42:52.050 --> 00:42:54.250
my future from this present moment. And that's

00:42:54.250 --> 00:42:59.550
I just that's how I talk to myself. And it just

00:42:59.769 --> 00:43:03.769
For me, it just, it not only feels good, but

00:43:03.769 --> 00:43:07.750
I then get to, I get the opportunity to continue

00:43:07.750 --> 00:43:11.750
to build what I'm building for my future. Oh,

00:43:12.030 --> 00:43:14.570
that was beautiful. It makes me want to start

00:43:14.570 --> 00:43:20.289
a podcast so I can interview you. Can I, I have

00:43:20.289 --> 00:43:23.050
two things, probably more, but I'll just say

00:43:23.050 --> 00:43:31.400
two things to that. It is so powerful. for you

00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:37.519
to share that in in the Identities that you hold

00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.860
and the life experience that you hold right to

00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:47.780
share that about what it means as a man to pull

00:43:47.780 --> 00:43:54.340
back from the reaction that Your life experience

00:43:54.340 --> 00:43:58.730
your the testosterone in your body uh would tell

00:43:58.730 --> 00:44:03.050
you to and then the messages you know would tell

00:44:03.050 --> 00:44:05.389
you that you need to be and it's so power it's

00:44:05.389 --> 00:44:12.050
really i appreciate you sharing that um and i

00:44:12.050 --> 00:44:17.929
i think the another thing that it um highlights

00:44:17.929 --> 00:44:26.710
is that you know many of us we grew up um where

00:44:26.710 --> 00:44:33.210
we are told to keep a stiff upper lip and we

00:44:33.210 --> 00:44:40.250
either were pushed to excel or maybe not given

00:44:40.250 --> 00:44:44.349
attention and there were not expectations and

00:44:44.349 --> 00:44:47.510
we decided or we were exposed to something that

00:44:47.510 --> 00:44:51.190
leads people to watch your podcast every week,

00:44:51.429 --> 00:44:56.340
right? And pay attention to personal development

00:44:56.340 --> 00:45:03.320
through books and such. And I think that that

00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:08.139
helps to create a shift in our world. You know,

00:45:08.539 --> 00:45:11.440
I am not someone who believes that the only way

00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:15.380
to grow is therapy. I think there are some things

00:45:15.380 --> 00:45:21.429
that therapy is the way for, right? And then

00:45:21.429 --> 00:45:23.630
there are things that a combination are for.

00:45:25.869 --> 00:45:30.769
And so many of us learned patterns from those

00:45:30.769 --> 00:45:33.909
who came before us where they didn't have the

00:45:33.909 --> 00:45:42.510
luxury of investing in coaching or programs or

00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.539
or even education, right? And we are at a time

00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:53.239
in our history where we in many ways have the

00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:56.079
luxury to be able to do these things and access,

00:45:56.139 --> 00:46:01.739
right? You can get a whole PhD on Spotify and

00:46:01.739 --> 00:46:05.860
YouTube. You may not have a paper, but like a

00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:11.159
whole PhD, like we have access to that. And so

00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:18.659
I think the opportunity to invest in ourselves

00:46:18.659 --> 00:46:23.019
and then share what we learned from that investment,

00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:27.340
I really believe provides growth and healing

00:46:27.340 --> 00:46:30.820
that goes forward in generations and also goes

00:46:30.820 --> 00:46:35.880
back in generations. I know that if one thing

00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:40.960
is true about my life, I know that my study and

00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.980
research and writing about self -care has made

00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:47.300
a difference for the women in my family. I know

00:46:47.300 --> 00:46:51.619
that the women younger than me and the women

00:46:51.619 --> 00:46:55.820
who came before me, I know that in every fiber

00:46:55.820 --> 00:47:02.300
of my being. And so I started this to say that

00:47:02.489 --> 00:47:05.329
I think the beautiful thing about leadership,

00:47:05.550 --> 00:47:09.989
leadership as an entrepreneur, leadership, if

00:47:09.989 --> 00:47:15.050
you're leading in a job or in a community, it

00:47:15.050 --> 00:47:18.170
truly is a personal development and spiritual

00:47:18.170 --> 00:47:21.409
path. It gives you all kinds of opportunities

00:47:21.409 --> 00:47:26.829
to grow and develop yourself. And I loved hearing.

00:47:27.769 --> 00:47:31.389
the gift that you have given yourself, your family,

00:47:31.530 --> 00:47:35.090
your business partner of your own development.

00:47:36.409 --> 00:47:41.469
Yes, thank you. And it keeps the relationship

00:47:41.469 --> 00:47:44.170
going because I got told I was like, okay, it's

00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:46.690
okay. You know, we didn't kill each other. You

00:47:46.690 --> 00:47:51.199
know, it's okay. Oh, and can I tie that back

00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:55.179
to something? And that's how being out of hustle,

00:47:55.219 --> 00:47:58.519
that's an example of how being out of hustle

00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:02.599
helps to strengthen your business. Do you see

00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:05.579
that? Because you can pull back and say, okay,

00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:08.579
let's pull back, let's pause, and then let's

00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:12.719
come back to this. Because quite frankly, if

00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:18.030
we are really flooded by our emotions, then we're

00:48:18.030 --> 00:48:22.389
not able to engage the part of our brain that

00:48:22.389 --> 00:48:26.610
is best for planning and problem solving. I mean,

00:48:26.630 --> 00:48:29.510
that is part of the science around that as well.

00:48:30.230 --> 00:48:33.590
Yes. I didn't think about that, but that is so

00:48:33.590 --> 00:48:37.789
on point because I know if it was, you know,

00:48:37.849 --> 00:48:39.949
go, go, go, just hustling, trying to get to the

00:48:39.949 --> 00:48:42.889
next thing, try to doing whatever the emotions

00:48:42.889 --> 00:48:48.539
are, they're high at that moment. And yeah, I

00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:51.559
see that. And that's why I have to write notes

00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:54.679
because I forget what I want to connect that

00:48:54.679 --> 00:48:57.880
to. But forget it. I'm just going to talk about

00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:01.340
a couple of things, a couple of activities I

00:49:01.340 --> 00:49:05.059
saw in your book. And I really want to go through

00:49:05.059 --> 00:49:10.099
them real quick. And I was going to try to tie

00:49:10.099 --> 00:49:12.000
it with something that you said, but I'm just

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.980
going to go into it. One of the activities, you

00:49:15.980 --> 00:49:18.840
have 101, so they're really great. But one of

00:49:18.840 --> 00:49:22.559
them was called I Am Worthy. Oh yeah, what page

00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:26.599
are you on? 61. Funny how I don't have that memorized,

00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:34.179
right? Great. And you talked about, okay, basically

00:49:34.179 --> 00:49:37.340
it's, I'm going to read it for folks. Self -worth

00:49:37.340 --> 00:49:41.360
is broadly defined as a deep sense of knowing.

00:49:41.610 --> 00:49:45.030
that you have inherent value by virtue of being

00:49:45.030 --> 00:49:48.250
alive, which is not contingent on the opinions

00:49:48.250 --> 00:49:51.329
of others. There are many cultural messages of

00:49:51.329 --> 00:49:54.250
how a woman should be or look that creates a

00:49:54.250 --> 00:49:57.210
narrow view of womanhood that can erode self

00:49:57.210 --> 00:50:02.489
-worth. Positive self -worth helps develop help

00:50:02.489 --> 00:50:06.010
people develop a mental inner ally to squash

00:50:06.010 --> 00:50:09.210
their inner critic and actively refute negative

00:50:09.210 --> 00:50:11.849
messages. It requires practice to cultivate self

00:50:11.849 --> 00:50:15.030
-worth. And in the activity, you'll strengthen

00:50:15.030 --> 00:50:18.090
your worthiness muscles by listing all of the

00:50:18.090 --> 00:50:20.869
reasons you are worthy. And I think one of the

00:50:20.869 --> 00:50:26.150
things that people deal with, women in particular

00:50:26.150 --> 00:50:30.010
because it's about that, but men as well, they

00:50:30.010 --> 00:50:33.659
bring some of the old stories. to their situations

00:50:33.659 --> 00:50:38.860
where they're trying to fulfill a story where

00:50:38.860 --> 00:50:41.639
they're telling themselves that they're not worthy.

00:50:42.460 --> 00:50:45.860
And it brings in, it brings that stuff, that

00:50:45.860 --> 00:50:48.940
mess, right? And that story into leadership.

00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:51.440
And can you just talk about that a little bit

00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:56.480
and how this exercise helps? Yeah, let me paint

00:50:56.480 --> 00:51:01.159
a picture. If you believe that you're not worthy,

00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:05.800
and you hold a position that comes with some

00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:11.820
authority in your business, at your job, and

00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:20.619
people ask you smart, critical questions about

00:51:20.619 --> 00:51:23.820
something that you have said, done, or planning

00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:31.139
to do. that can lead folks to misuse the positional

00:51:31.139 --> 00:51:34.219
authority that they hold. Because, oh, they don't

00:51:34.219 --> 00:51:37.059
think I'm smart enough, they don't think I can

00:51:37.059 --> 00:51:42.639
do it, right? And so imagine what it looks like

00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:51.159
if you both have upleveled your awareness of

00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:58.099
your inherent worth and or have a practice of

00:51:58.099 --> 00:52:02.820
being in relationship with your worth. When you

00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:08.840
are questioned, you can respond with grace, right?

00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:13.400
And so this activity, because our self -worth

00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:18.880
often isn't something that we think a lot about.

00:52:21.100 --> 00:52:24.900
allows us to think about and to do it and to

00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:31.400
give our brain evidence to draw from that helps

00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:34.880
us to understand what makes us uniquely fabulous.

00:52:35.980 --> 00:52:40.019
And so by doing this activity, which is to write

00:52:40.019 --> 00:52:43.139
50 things that make you fabulous, you are giving

00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:50.389
yourself a database. And I suggest that folks

00:52:50.389 --> 00:52:53.289
not only do it once, but that they put it into

00:52:53.289 --> 00:52:55.989
their calendar with regularity to come back to

00:52:55.989 --> 00:53:00.889
that list and to add to it. You know, and none

00:53:00.889 --> 00:53:03.989
of these activities have to be done out the box

00:53:03.989 --> 00:53:06.969
the way they are. You can adjust it to my worth

00:53:06.969 --> 00:53:13.789
list. Right. And so slowly over time, it helps

00:53:13.789 --> 00:53:16.949
you to again, deepen your sense of worth. Now,

00:53:16.949 --> 00:53:20.039
if you really want to do something, uh what you

00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:23.300
might do is challenge the like what are the negative

00:53:23.300 --> 00:53:25.159
thoughts that you have that challenge all of

00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:28.219
those things of worth on your list so that you

00:53:28.219 --> 00:53:32.480
can um see like do you need a statement that

00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:36.940
feels more more accurate um or is there something

00:53:36.940 --> 00:53:41.019
that you can say that you can um negate the negative

00:53:41.019 --> 00:53:44.000
thought that you have so that you can uh build

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:48.219
um up the more positive ones. And I have another

00:53:48.219 --> 00:53:51.420
activity in the book about addressing your automatic

00:53:51.420 --> 00:53:56.300
negative thoughts that help you to practice ways

00:53:56.300 --> 00:54:00.679
to distance yourself from those thoughts and

00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:04.960
to decrease the power of them. A &T. I was going

00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:11.650
to actually use that as another example. Yes,

00:54:11.670 --> 00:54:14.730
I read that and I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, that

00:54:14.730 --> 00:54:17.809
that that acronym, I mean, it's something that

00:54:17.809 --> 00:54:21.369
has been in the cognitive behavioral therapy

00:54:21.369 --> 00:54:26.250
for a long time. And Dr. Daniel Amin of the Amin

00:54:26.250 --> 00:54:32.409
Clinic. Yeah, coined automatic negative thoughts.

00:54:32.769 --> 00:54:35.090
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was pretty.

00:54:35.269 --> 00:54:39.219
That was pretty. Pretty dope, I'd say. All right,

00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.739
I want to do one more, talk about one more here.

00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:47.280
This is on page 97, which is daydream your way

00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:51.739
to your career move. You know what I'm saying?

00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:55.880
Because I put a bookmark in for this discussion

00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:58.579
and somehow I had the sense that this is what

00:54:58.579 --> 00:55:02.840
you were going to ask me. What? Or I felt like

00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:06.219
we were gonna talk about some way. Oh, okay.

00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:09.679
This is this is what this wild. That's why I

00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:13.840
love it. I love it. Um, so let me go ahead and

00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:19.039
just read the the activity here. You can harness

00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:23.119
the power of visualization to see the future

00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:28.219
outcome you desire. We visualize you shift your

00:55:28.219 --> 00:55:32.159
sense of self to that of a person. who has met

00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:35.440
the goal and you build your confidence in achieving

00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:39.539
it. Doing this primes your brain to take the

00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:42.159
opportunities in your life to bring you closer

00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:46.820
to the hoped for outcome. So you talk for this

00:55:46.820 --> 00:55:49.639
activity, you'll start by identifying professional

00:55:49.639 --> 00:55:53.019
goals and spend time imagining yourself reaching

00:55:53.019 --> 00:55:57.349
it. Please expound on that for folks. Yeah, yeah,

00:55:57.650 --> 00:56:00.949
yeah. I have two things I want to say about this.

00:56:01.710 --> 00:56:06.030
So inspiration from this came initially from

00:56:06.030 --> 00:56:09.949
this study I read a very long time ago about

00:56:09.949 --> 00:56:13.829
folks who were laid off from their jobs and they

00:56:13.829 --> 00:56:19.030
were in a re -employment program. And they found

00:56:19.030 --> 00:56:24.630
that having job seekers visualize themselves

00:56:24.630 --> 00:56:29.590
going on job interviews, handling the questions,

00:56:29.829 --> 00:56:32.469
the ups and downs of the process and visualizing

00:56:32.469 --> 00:56:35.949
how they would deal with them, that the people

00:56:35.949 --> 00:56:39.869
who visualized had strong outcomes. So that was

00:56:39.869 --> 00:56:46.170
the inspiration. It's also based on the notion

00:56:46.170 --> 00:56:51.289
that our brains don't differentiate between what

00:56:51.289 --> 00:56:56.190
is real and what is imagined and use the, the

00:56:56.190 --> 00:57:01.610
imaginal power of our brain. to move us closer

00:57:01.610 --> 00:57:04.670
toward our goals. And the thing that you need

00:57:04.670 --> 00:57:07.730
to do is to be really clear about what it is

00:57:07.730 --> 00:57:12.730
that you that you want. And I really I like the

00:57:12.730 --> 00:57:19.070
work of James Doty, who has written two great

00:57:19.070 --> 00:57:24.610
books and and unfortunately just passed recently.

00:57:24.869 --> 00:57:30.610
He writes about Manifestation from a neuroscience

00:57:30.610 --> 00:57:34.329
perspective and I leave that into my work with

00:57:34.329 --> 00:57:37.949
folks and one of the things he talks about is

00:57:37.949 --> 00:57:43.250
that he learned the importance of. Tuning into

00:57:43.250 --> 00:57:47.369
your heart right when you want about what you

00:57:47.369 --> 00:57:49.590
want so it's in alignment with the greater good

00:57:49.590 --> 00:57:53.369
and because his studies are around compassion

00:57:53.369 --> 00:58:00.420
and altruism and so. What I find really compelling

00:58:00.420 --> 00:58:05.599
about that for this activity is like, you really

00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:09.659
put your full, full senses into imagining what

00:58:09.659 --> 00:58:15.659
you what you want. And that imagining is, is

00:58:15.659 --> 00:58:19.039
so powerful. And you need a couple of you need

00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.260
other ingredients, but two ingredients that I

00:58:21.260 --> 00:58:27.690
will share is you need consistency of of exposure

00:58:27.690 --> 00:58:31.250
to what that vision is, and then you also need

00:58:31.250 --> 00:58:39.289
action. It's not enough to, well, there are different

00:58:39.289 --> 00:58:42.530
schools of thoughts on this, but from a perspective

00:58:42.530 --> 00:58:48.010
of leaders in businesses and such, you are often

00:58:48.010 --> 00:58:52.269
going to need action. Made you very well with

00:58:52.269 --> 00:58:56.030
mountain with whatever that term is like referrals,

00:58:56.030 --> 00:58:58.869
but but at a certain point often you're going

00:58:58.869 --> 00:59:01.469
to need to be able to know how to bring in your

00:59:01.469 --> 00:59:04.969
own clients and customers and opportunities,

00:59:04.969 --> 00:59:10.570
right? And so what I love about this activity

00:59:10.570 --> 00:59:13.349
is like getting clear on what you want. And then

00:59:13.349 --> 00:59:16.309
I suggest people then go take action like they

00:59:16.309 --> 00:59:21.800
connect with folks on LinkedIn. or they let friends

00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:24.980
know what they're doing in their business or

00:59:24.980 --> 00:59:27.960
attend some networking thing or post something

00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:31.380
on their socials. You want to take action toward

00:59:31.380 --> 00:59:37.340
it to help sharpen the picture and get some of

00:59:37.340 --> 00:59:39.619
the force behind what it is you're trying to

00:59:39.619 --> 00:59:42.860
do. Yeah. I thought that was really powerful

00:59:42.860 --> 00:59:48.679
because I'm really into that and the visualization

00:59:48.989 --> 00:59:51.590
Um, and manifestation, but one of the things

00:59:51.590 --> 00:59:55.230
that you just addressed, which is, um, really

00:59:55.230 --> 00:59:58.929
take action. And I think what happens in my experience

00:59:58.929 --> 01:00:04.150
is that. When I visualize, like even in this

01:00:04.150 --> 01:00:06.789
conversation, I've said this before, like in

01:00:06.789 --> 01:00:10.190
this conversation, I visualize we're actually

01:00:10.190 --> 01:00:12.550
in a studio where you're across from me. I'm

01:00:12.550 --> 01:00:15.190
across from you and we're talking about this

01:00:15.190 --> 01:00:18.460
exact thing, right? And it's great to have that

01:00:18.460 --> 01:00:20.159
and continue to have it over and over again.

01:00:20.199 --> 01:00:22.739
That's the consistent part, but it's also taking

01:00:22.739 --> 01:00:25.659
action. And so it's the things that I can do

01:00:25.659 --> 01:00:29.199
to elevate this podcast. So I can actually get

01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:32.539
into that place where, you know, we're actually

01:00:32.539 --> 01:00:35.739
in a studio and I get to invite people to the

01:00:35.739 --> 01:00:38.639
studio and things like that. Oh, fun. I mean,

01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:41.500
fun. Part of what might also go into that is

01:00:41.500 --> 01:00:44.840
that we have mirror neurons in our brain that

01:00:45.659 --> 01:00:51.980
that communicate our intentions to other people,

01:00:52.119 --> 01:00:57.500
right? We also know that there's this term emotional

01:00:57.500 --> 01:01:00.760
contagion that like emotions spread in groups

01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:05.599
of people. And there's some research that they

01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:08.519
found I think during the pandemic that emotional

01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:15.539
contagion can happen over online platforms when,

01:01:15.619 --> 01:01:18.440
you know, you're having a team or work meeting.

01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:21.719
And so I bring that up to say from the mirror

01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:26.599
neurons perspective. Um, I, when you said that

01:01:26.599 --> 01:01:29.420
I just had this image, like, I don't feel that

01:01:29.420 --> 01:01:31.920
we're in different spaces. I really feel like,

01:01:32.539 --> 01:01:35.840
I really feel like we're having an experience

01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.059
of being in the room talking together. And I

01:01:38.059 --> 01:01:40.340
didn't, I didn't notice that until you said it

01:01:40.340 --> 01:01:44.139
until I said something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:48.119
I know like that was that's it. When I know that

01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:49.719
when I'm having a really connected conversation,

01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:52.059
like the teleprompter, all that kind of stuff,

01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:54.360
it doesn't I mean, it's here, but it doesn't

01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:57.679
really exist. It's almost as if there's a there's

01:01:57.679 --> 01:02:02.480
a just a sense of just being in a moment. You

01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:05.480
know, you know what I'm trying to say? Yes, yes.

01:02:05.719 --> 01:02:09.219
Yes. Yeah. So I love that you call it. Okay.

01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:12.480
I'm not scientific that way. But I love it. Is

01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:16.539
it mirror? Is it mirror? Like mirror? Am I mirror

01:02:16.539 --> 01:02:19.420
neurons? Okay. Yeah. So, okay, that's what I

01:02:19.420 --> 01:02:22.300
wrote in my notes here. All right. You got it.

01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:24.619
You got it. I like, you know, I'm a little bit

01:02:24.619 --> 01:02:30.139
of a geek like that. I like to to to have a have

01:02:30.139 --> 01:02:34.920
a label to sort of understand my experience.

01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:38.980
Yeah, no, I totally get it. I totally understand.

01:02:39.900 --> 01:02:43.900
You know, can you really just as we were closing

01:02:43.900 --> 01:02:47.519
out the hour, but is there a powerful transformation

01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:51.659
that you've seen through your work as a coach

01:02:51.659 --> 01:02:55.599
and as a psychologist that you've seen someone

01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:58.679
experience and pursuing like who they there they

01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:07.250
come to you to to be? Yeah, yeah. I'm going to

01:03:07.250 --> 01:03:13.110
talk about this in generalities because I prefer

01:03:13.110 --> 01:03:16.469
even without names to have permission for talking

01:03:16.469 --> 01:03:25.690
about people. But the thing that consistently

01:03:25.690 --> 01:03:35.460
the people I work with tell me is that they through

01:03:35.460 --> 01:03:43.920
being witnessed in our work that they feel a

01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:49.980
greater degree of confidence in taking action

01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:57.699
on the things that they know. And so that looks

01:03:57.699 --> 01:04:03.769
like Starting the business that they've wanted

01:04:03.769 --> 01:04:09.630
to start for 20 years. That looks like being

01:04:09.630 --> 01:04:17.909
able to. Set boundaries and and accept help within

01:04:17.909 --> 01:04:23.429
their family unit. To give them space to be able

01:04:23.429 --> 01:04:31.239
to pursue their dreams. That looks like. The

01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:40.659
space in which they lead. They. Along with their

01:04:40.659 --> 01:04:44.599
team are working in a way that feels like people

01:04:44.599 --> 01:04:48.119
have a sense of belonging and are giving their

01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:52.639
highest contribution within their work. And I

01:04:52.639 --> 01:04:57.679
can say for me, you know. Like many people, I

01:04:57.679 --> 01:04:59.460
probably do this work because I'm trying to figure

01:04:59.460 --> 01:05:04.880
some things out myself, right? And in my experience,

01:05:05.420 --> 01:05:11.059
much of what I talk about has come from not just

01:05:11.059 --> 01:05:13.059
what I've read about or science or helped my

01:05:13.059 --> 01:05:17.539
clients. It's that I've also had to learn. And

01:05:17.539 --> 01:05:24.820
for me, it has helped me to help organizations.

01:05:25.159 --> 01:05:35.260
go from performing in a way that everybody did

01:05:35.260 --> 01:05:40.099
what they wanted to being able to have a unified

01:05:40.099 --> 01:05:45.099
vision to increase the public perception of their

01:05:45.099 --> 01:05:49.519
work and thereby having more people come into

01:05:49.519 --> 01:05:54.139
their doors. avail themselves of the services

01:05:54.139 --> 01:05:59.820
offered because we set a collective vision and

01:05:59.820 --> 01:06:01.860
we dealt with the things that were toxic within

01:06:01.860 --> 01:06:04.960
the organization and that created transformations.

01:06:07.500 --> 01:06:13.460
So I love the process. I love, love, love when

01:06:13.460 --> 01:06:18.059
people are in the liminal space because I know

01:06:18.059 --> 01:06:20.840
that that discomfort of being in the in -between

01:06:23.260 --> 01:06:28.500
um is really the indication that seeds have been

01:06:28.500 --> 01:06:31.519
planted that are going to sprout beautiful flowers

01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:35.679
on the other side if i thought people would respond

01:06:35.679 --> 01:06:37.900
to it like my business would have like something

01:06:37.900 --> 01:06:42.400
liminal in the title but like i haven't found

01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:48.920
a way to make that cute and compelling Those

01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:54.800
are some of the transformations that I have seen.

01:06:55.280 --> 01:06:57.559
It's like people stepping into themselves and

01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:02.000
their unique contribution while they're here

01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:05.780
on this Earth. Yeah. That's how I was going to

01:07:05.780 --> 01:07:07.760
sum it up or that's how I was playing in my mind,

01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:11.300
which is people really stepping into their purpose

01:07:11.300 --> 01:07:14.480
and their power and being able to utilize that

01:07:14.480 --> 01:07:19.469
in their specific areas of life. I think it's

01:07:19.469 --> 01:07:22.010
really, that's powerful. And this is what you

01:07:22.010 --> 01:07:26.849
offer for people. And I think that's really powerful.

01:07:27.469 --> 01:07:31.030
This whole conversation has been out of this

01:07:31.030 --> 01:07:35.409
world, honestly. And I don't know if you know

01:07:35.409 --> 01:07:37.710
what I mean by that, but I think you do because

01:07:37.710 --> 01:07:45.449
of the experience that was here. was that there

01:07:45.449 --> 01:07:49.969
was a true connection and it was like we're a

01:07:49.969 --> 01:07:53.010
part and we're like right here you know and I

01:07:53.010 --> 01:07:55.769
think that's uh powerful and I think that people

01:07:55.769 --> 01:07:58.789
will that's listening and watching will get the

01:07:58.789 --> 01:08:01.929
sense of this as well um because the energy it

01:08:01.929 --> 01:08:11.329
it will it expands all right um so I wanted I

01:08:11.329 --> 01:08:14.030
wanted more questions we had I had so much but

01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:19.920
Before we leave, there's two things. One, how

01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:24.100
can people get in touch with you? Yeah. So, if

01:08:24.100 --> 01:08:29.260
you heard something today that you want to hear

01:08:29.260 --> 01:08:32.300
more of and explore what it's like to work with

01:08:32.300 --> 01:08:37.380
me personally, you can email me at hello at cicelybrathwaite

01:08:37.380 --> 01:08:42.430
.com. You can also go to cicelybrathwaite .com

01:08:42.430 --> 01:08:48.029
and there you'll find a link to sign up for my

01:08:48.029 --> 01:08:51.689
newsletter. And El Michael, I'll share with you

01:08:51.689 --> 01:08:57.189
a link to a companion to my first book, Better

01:08:57.189 --> 01:09:01.529
Daily Self -Care Habits. I have a... a free journal

01:09:01.529 --> 01:09:04.850
that folks can download and then have that and

01:09:04.850 --> 01:09:07.510
I'll share that link for you for your show notes.

01:09:09.329 --> 01:09:12.270
So those are the ways and I'm on Instagram at

01:09:12.270 --> 01:09:18.529
Dr. Cicely Brathwaite. But if you really want

01:09:18.529 --> 01:09:22.010
to connect with me, hop into my email and get

01:09:22.010 --> 01:09:24.010
on my newsletter because I have some exciting

01:09:24.010 --> 01:09:27.920
things around the corner. I know you do. I know

01:09:27.920 --> 01:09:34.140
you do. And last thing is what is the last, what's

01:09:34.140 --> 01:09:38.319
something on your heart or your mind? It could

01:09:38.319 --> 01:09:40.739
be anything that you would like to share as your

01:09:40.739 --> 01:09:45.399
last words on this podcast this time. Oh, it

01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:47.840
sounds like I'm going to be invited back. Oh,

01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:58.699
yeah. What I want to say to folks, I think that

01:09:58.699 --> 01:10:01.239
goes with the theme of the time we spent together

01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:11.319
today is you are enough. You don't need to have

01:10:11.319 --> 01:10:17.199
every answer. It is okay to ask for help. And

01:10:17.199 --> 01:10:21.079
the one thing that you want to do is when you

01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:24.880
have made an internal change you will get messages

01:10:24.880 --> 01:10:27.680
someone will say something to you an idea will

01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:31.100
come into your head that tells you to do something

01:10:31.100 --> 01:10:33.420
that is the very opposite of what you would have

01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:37.659
done before you made that internal shift don't

01:10:37.659 --> 01:10:41.460
turn away from it that message is telling you

01:10:41.460 --> 01:10:45.449
do you know what stop trying to pursue this contract

01:10:45.449 --> 01:10:48.369
that you know actually is not the right thing

01:10:48.369 --> 01:10:51.270
for your business or that message that's telling

01:10:51.270 --> 01:10:58.869
you be more regular with your Instagram or YouTube

01:10:58.869 --> 01:11:04.090
posts or have that conversation. That is energy

01:11:04.090 --> 01:11:07.109
freed up that's allowing the new. Don't turn

01:11:07.109 --> 01:11:13.140
away from it. Don't turn away from it. Dr. Sicily,

01:11:13.340 --> 01:11:16.859
I want to say thank you from the depth of my

01:11:16.859 --> 01:11:21.460
soul in my heart for your time being here. You're

01:11:21.460 --> 01:11:26.340
a doctor in Manhattan. So you got things you

01:11:26.340 --> 01:11:29.899
could be doing and you took the time out to share

01:11:29.899 --> 01:11:34.899
your message with me and our audience and you

01:11:34.899 --> 01:11:38.060
did not disappoint and you showed up fully and

01:11:38.060 --> 01:11:40.600
I truly appreciate it. So thank you so much.

01:11:41.579 --> 01:11:45.479
El Michael, this has been a nourishing conversation.

01:11:47.300 --> 01:11:53.859
I enjoyed, I enjoy your preparation and your

01:11:53.859 --> 01:11:59.460
diligence in shedding. information and support

01:11:59.460 --> 01:12:04.380
to your listeners. I've seen the breadth of the

01:12:04.380 --> 01:12:06.979
information that you share with the guests that

01:12:06.979 --> 01:12:11.119
you have, and that's a unique and special contribution.

01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:17.300
And so I'm really proud to be part of the contribution

01:12:17.300 --> 01:12:20.560
that you're making today. Thank you. Thank you

01:12:20.560 --> 01:12:24.229
very much. You know, thank you all for tuning

01:12:24.229 --> 01:12:27.670
in and listening and watching. And as we always

01:12:27.670 --> 01:12:30.810
say, let's make thriving our new normal, and

01:12:30.810 --> 01:12:33.810
we'll see you next week. Before you go, I just

01:12:33.810 --> 01:12:35.729
want to say thank you. Thank you for being a

01:12:35.729 --> 01:12:38.229
part of the Thrive Bull journey. Every time you

01:12:38.229 --> 01:12:41.189
show up here, you're choosing growth, clarity,

01:12:41.430 --> 01:12:43.409
and the deeper work of becoming who you're meant

01:12:43.409 --> 01:12:46.689
to be in this world. And if you're ready to reconnect

01:12:46.689 --> 01:12:49.550
with what truly lights you up, I created something

01:12:49.550 --> 01:12:53.130
powerful that can help you. It's called the Empowered

01:12:53.130 --> 01:12:55.810
Path. Seven days to reclaim your purpose and

01:12:55.810 --> 01:12:59.069
passion. It's a beautifully designed guided workbook

01:12:59.069 --> 01:13:01.409
that walks you through a week of powerful prompts,

01:13:02.010 --> 01:13:05.409
clarity building tools, and real mindset shifts.

01:13:05.609 --> 01:13:08.470
Now you can get instant access to it today. It's

01:13:08.470 --> 01:13:11.710
a small investment for a huge return. Your energy,

01:13:12.189 --> 01:13:15.449
your clarity, your alignment, and if you want

01:13:15.449 --> 01:13:18.119
to take it deeper, check this out. I'm offering

01:13:18.119 --> 01:13:21.279
a limited number of free 30 -minute purpose coaching

01:13:21.279 --> 01:13:24.140
sessions. No pressure, no pitch, just space for

01:13:24.140 --> 01:13:26.880
you to reconnect with your direction, your gifts,

01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:29.760
and what's next. So you can grab the guide and

01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:32.220
book your session at the link in the show notes.

01:13:32.859 --> 01:13:35.520
Let's not just go through the motions. Let's

01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:38.800
really walk this path on purpose. I appreciate

01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:41.579
you. And like we always say, let's make thriving

01:13:41.579 --> 01:13:43.880
our new normal. And I'll talk to you soon.