WEBVTT

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You talk about a little bit about your story.

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So can you take us back to your early years and

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share what it was like growing up, what I mentioned

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to you in the beginning of this? Yeah. I think

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sometimes it's hard to know you're in a cult

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till you're not in it anymore. So I started going

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to school at five and then we joined the church

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at ten and so it became my entire life, right?

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I was at school Monday through Friday there and

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I went there from first grade all the way to

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senior year of high school. The big switch for

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me was as a person and then translated into my

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leadership that helped my curiosity was the recognition

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that validation is not external. I am valid and

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I am valuable simply because empathy is necessary.

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And trying to understand the lived experience

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of people outside of themselves is necessary.

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And I like to break this down in hard numbers

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for people to sit with, right? So the United

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States, the population of the United States,

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Americans, only make up 4 .34 % of the global

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population. Wow. I want us to sit with that,

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right? Only 4 .34 % of the global population.

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Number one, pin that. Number two, white people

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only make up. She grew up inside a cult where

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control was the rule and curiosity was forbidden,

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but she broke free and transformed that pain

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into power. Today, Shana Francesca is a global

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voice for ethical leadership, intentional living,

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and courage to design your own life. Her story

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isn't just about survival. It's about building

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communities, companies, and cultures where everyone

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is valued and empowered. In this episode, how

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she turned trauma into purpose and how you can

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too. Hey there. Look, my hope is that the Thravo

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journey meets you exactly where you are and helps

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you rise into who you're here to be. It's 2025

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and this is your year to thrive despite what

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the world is throwing at us. And our desire is

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that our conversations inspire you. bring clarity

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and give you a reason to breathe deeper. So our

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ask is that you take a moment to subscribe, download

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the episode and follow us on your favorite RSS

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platform. Your support doesn't just help the

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show grow. It helps build a space that's rooted

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in your evolution. And that means everything

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to me and the TTJ team. Now, if you're ready

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to go beyond the episodes, Come join our private

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Thrive Wheel journey discussion group on Facebook.

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We're walking through a 22 week series built

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to anchor each week and intention, purpose, and

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meaningful connection. I do so look forward to

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hearing your voice and can't wait to see you

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in the group. But for right now, let's get into

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it. Welcome to the podcast. Shana, how are you

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doing today? I'm good. Woo, that was a great

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intro. Thanks for that. I work on those things.

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I work. I can tell most people just read the

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bio that I give them, which is perfectly fine.

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Yeah. But I love that you didn't do that. That

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was great. Thanks for that. I try to, you know,

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create some, some wonder around who are who we

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have on the show and my when myself and Yvonne,

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we got to read about your story. It was very

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intriguing to us. And so just go back before

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we get into who you are today and that wonderful

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purpose that you're living. You talk about a

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little bit about your story. So can you take

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us back to your early years and share what it

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was like growing up what I mentioned to which

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in the front in the beginning of this? Yeah,

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yeah. You know, I think sometimes it's hard to

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know you're in a cult till you're not in it anymore.

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Yeah. Especially when you're raised in it. Right.

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And, you know, I started going to the school

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that was part of the religious institution that

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we eventually joined and became this very cult

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-like institution. So I started going to school

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at five, and then we joined the church at 10,

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and so it became my entire life, right? I was

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at school Monday through Friday there, and I

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went there from first grade all the way to senior

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year of high school. right? And then also part

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of the church. And, you know, when you're in

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that environment, just like in a household, depending

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on where you are inside the institution depends

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on your experience, right? So there's some people

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who either attended that school or attended the

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church and did not have the experience I had.

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But there were many people who did, right? Those

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of us who were a little bit closer to the inner

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circle, who were in leadership, so on and so

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forth, got to see things that other people didn't

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get to see. The hiding of abuse, the hiding of

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pedophilia, the intimidation tactics that were

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used to silence people, the obfuscating of the

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truth, right? We're just not going to say the

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truth. We're going to say something entirely

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otherwise. The children of the head pastor were

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hiding the fact that he had dementia for like

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almost a decade. And he was responsible for people.

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You know, we knew something was off, but we thought

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they would tell us, you know what I mean? And

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here's, there's, you know, 1500 people at that

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time, you know, inside this congregation, you

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know, looking to this person who really needed

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to be being taken care of, who didn't need to

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be responsible for our spiritual right, but his

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Children didn't want to let go of the power that

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it gave them to be, you know, part of with him

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as the head pastor, so on and so forth, and ended

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up being investigated by the FBI. The church

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was making investments in tax liens. If you're

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not familiar with that, it's perfectly legal,

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but churches are given tax exempt status so that

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they invest in communities. If you're not familiar

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with tax liens, you can buy up somebody's back

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taxes on their home, which us having to pay property

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taxes on a house that we've only purchased once

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every single year is a whole other conversation.

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But you can, in fact, purchase somebody's back

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taxes and they have a year to pay you back. And

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if they don't, and you can charge the maximum

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interest in New Jersey is 17%. This is clearly

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already somebody struggling financially, that

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now you're putting this significant tax on their

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tax, right? And now you're requiring them to

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pay it back. And the church would, in fact, take

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those properties when people couldn't pay it

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back. was both unethical behavior and illegal

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behavior. The church was mandated reporters and

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they hid the fact that my father was a pedophile

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and never reported it. Never reported it. As

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a matter of fact, they canceled my mother. That's

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the avenue he chose because she wasn't being

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as godly a wife as she should have been. And

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so this is the kind of harmful ideology that

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doesn't start out that way. But it gets that

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way when we divest from curiosity, respect and

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accountability, which is why my work is built

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on that. Because I realized what was missing

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in those environments and growing up in a place

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where child labor is normalized, although it's

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like, oh, you'll get to miss class to help us

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set up for this event that they're renting our

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facilities. You know what I mean? Like this kind

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of And it becomes like a reward, but child labor

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should never be a reward. No, never. Never. And

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that shouldn't be normalized that you laboring

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for adults for free is in fact, you know, something

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beneficial. And as a neurodivergent person who

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was constantly told I was bad and wrong, you

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know, because I couldn't sit still in a chair,

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you know, being used, you know, in a way that

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let me get my energy out sounded enticing to

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me, but then I missed out on necessary education.

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Right. And so, you know, there's a lot of conversations

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to be had just in that reality. Right. Like 17

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different conversations, but there was so much

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and So many people are still reeling today. There

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was a couple of people I know who have been institutionalized

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because their mental health was just so fractured

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from being inside of this organization. And so

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many of us have complex PTSD and had to go to

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therapy for years and so on. So the financial

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toll and the mental toll and the physical toll

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that it takes on you takes decades to repair.

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Right. Decades. I can imagine. First of all,

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thank you for sharing that part of you. And when

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you were sharing that, I was thinking like, how

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does one that has been indoctrinated in that

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world and they're like, okay, wait, something's

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going on. What was that shift in that change

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that you began to recognize that got you out

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of that space? I had always had, that's a good

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question, I had always had questions, but people

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loved to use thought -stopping cliches to get

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me to stop thinking, right? Like that's the whole

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point, they're thought -stopping cliches. Like

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God's ways are higher than our ways, right? It

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was always the favorite, right? You know, I am

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not, I'm not required to worship something a

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physical being. I no longer believe in a sky

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daddy. That's how I like to call them. Sorry

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if that's disrespectful to anyone's beliefs.

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I just don't happen to believe in a singular

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puppet master in the sky anymore. I believe that

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there's something that gives life in all of us

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and to honor that in all living things is our

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greatest duty. But, you know, I would be told

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that God, as I was presented with him, you know,

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was always this dominating male figure, was all

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powerful and all knowing, and yet constantly

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refused to actually protect me or reveal himself

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or any of those things. And my questions compounded,

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compounded and compounded. And at first I let

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them go and I was just like, yeah, God's ways

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are higher than our ways. But then when the people

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who were supposed to be standing between me and

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God and helping direct me to God, when I saw

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the things that they were doing that were causing

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so much harm, Even in the cult that I grew up

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in and then the subsequent churches I attended

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after because I left and I was like, well, maybe

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it's just that church. And then I started going

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to other churches and the same pattern arose.

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They were trying to become what I had just left.

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Refusing to be financially open and honest, you

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know, not wanting to be held accountable, skewing

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stories, right? Like it just, you see that there's

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accountability is looking the thing in the face,

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right? And taking accountability. and responsibility

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for the impact. And if you're constantly obfuscating

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the impact and pretending it's not that bad,

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right? While the people impacted aren't being

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given a voice to say whether or not it hurt them

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that bad. And by the time they are given, they've

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been gaslit so much, the truth has been so skewed,

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right? And so you start to see all these things

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and you're just like, for me, at least I was

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like, shoot, I just... I don't think I can be

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part, I didn't say shoot, but that's the PG version.

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Shoot, I don't think I can be part of, right?

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I don't think what I'm looking for can be found

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inside of whether it be the denomination I grew

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up in or non -denominational churches or so on

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and so forth. And I looked and I looked and I

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was like, I just don't, I'm not finding a place

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that feels human, that feels humane, that feels

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like we're honoring one another. finding that,

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right? The last church I went to, I ended up

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talking to the pastor and I said, I feel like

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in the Good Samaritan, we are the people stepping

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over the bodies. He's like, I agree with you.

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He had no plan of action to change that or desire

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to and never came back to me with one. Ultimately,

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when I left there, is when I fully started deconstructing,

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right? Like before then I left the cult because

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I saw all the harm. I was like, there's no part

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of this that's okay. There's no part of this

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that Jesus would be okay with, right? Jesus would

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be tearing down the temple. Jesus would be throwing

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over the tables. Jesus would be telling them

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they're whitewashed tombs. I don't see Jesus

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in this place. But by the time I had gone to

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so many other churches and seen the same behavior,

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I was like, maybe church isn't for me. I'm just

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going to worship God directly. And then without

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all of the voices, telling me how I should interpret

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things and just interpreting it for myself. I

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finally was like, I actually don't think I believe

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any of this. I think Jesus was an incredible

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figure. If he was real, he was an incredible

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figure. I think he did incredible things. I think

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he truly put forward ideas we should be embracing.

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But I don't think that I can reconcile this figure

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that claims to be all powerful and all knowing

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and yet is not benevolent. as far as I can tell.

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I can't reconcile those things. I can't say that

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he's benevolent and does the things that he does

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being all powerful and all knowing. I can't reconcile

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those things anymore. And so it kind of all fell

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apart for me accidentally. I did not mean, I

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did not mean it was not like I went into it questioning.

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It was just that I guess the question stopped

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being silenced and then I couldn't not hear them

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anymore. And so there was always this questioning

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that was happening for a long time, from the

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time I was probably 12 or 13. But I didn't officially

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leave the church and leave the ideology until

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I was 34. Okay, well, that's a long answer. I

00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:56.740
know. But you know what, it gives me an understanding

00:13:56.740 --> 00:14:00.620
of, you know, who you are. And what stages as

00:14:00.620 --> 00:14:02.379
you went through, it wasn't just like a straight

00:14:02.379 --> 00:14:05.730
drop off, you know, you had to curate this understanding

00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:08.029
of who, you know, who you are and the spaces

00:14:08.029 --> 00:14:10.529
that you've gone through. And I totally understand

00:14:10.529 --> 00:14:14.610
that. So you're, you went through this and what

00:14:14.610 --> 00:14:18.090
was the pivotal moment that was just like, no

00:14:18.090 --> 00:14:22.250
more. I have, I got this figured out for myself.

00:14:23.669 --> 00:14:25.850
I think it was like the straw that broke the

00:14:25.850 --> 00:14:27.950
camel's back. I was, I was always in leadership

00:14:27.950 --> 00:14:30.350
in every church I ever attended. I very quickly

00:14:30.350 --> 00:14:32.110
would join leadership volunteer and then be in

00:14:32.110 --> 00:14:34.919
leadership. And in the last church I attended,

00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:39.500
one of the fellow leader volunteers looked at

00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:41.559
someone who was asking about the sermon that

00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:43.120
had just been preached and was like, hey, I have

00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.100
a question about something that the pastor said

00:14:45.100 --> 00:14:46.679
and I want to ask him about it. It was a perfectly

00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:48.240
reasonable question. Don't ask me what it was.

00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:51.279
I can't remember. And this person said, hey,

00:14:51.379 --> 00:14:53.480
I think I'm just going to email the pastor and

00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:54.879
ask him. And I was like, that's a great idea.

00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:58.039
I think you should do that. And the other volunteer

00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:01.809
leader said, oh, no, we don't question. we don't,

00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:04.649
we don't question the pastor. And I was like,

00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:13.409
Oh, so then, Oh, so that pastor is a human being.

00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:16.750
They're not actually God and we shouldn't hold

00:15:16.750 --> 00:15:22.299
human beings on pedestals. inside of any organization,

00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.080
accountability is required for a healthy, respectful,

00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.000
ethical environment. And absent of that, like

00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:30.820
if it's already made its way into leadership,

00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:33.919
it's because it's coming from on high. It's filtering

00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.259
its way down that hasn't been interrupted. Right?

00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.960
In a hierarchical environment, it's coming top

00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:44.039
down. And I was like, Whoa, that's scary. And

00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:45.639
that's when I had that conversation with him

00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.549
where I said, I think we're you know, it was

00:15:48.549 --> 00:15:51.409
right after George Floyd's death and, you know,

00:15:51.549 --> 00:15:55.429
2020. And I was like, where are we? Why are we

00:15:55.429 --> 00:15:59.809
not in the streets? Why are we not speaking up?

00:15:59.830 --> 00:16:03.970
Why are we as a diverse, you know, group of people

00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:06.450
worshiping God together? Why are we not standing

00:16:06.450 --> 00:16:09.370
up for human rights, for basic human rights?

00:16:09.429 --> 00:16:13.179
Why are we not in the streets? And Why are we

00:16:13.179 --> 00:16:15.120
not, not even just in the streets, why are we

00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:16.940
not having that conversation inside the church

00:16:16.940 --> 00:16:22.759
too? Right? Like I just not, I don't understand.

00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:26.919
And he didn't have an explanation. And I was

00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.580
like, okay. And then I found out that they had

00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:35.519
brought on staff somebody who was credibly accused

00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.799
of sexual violence on the church property. Oh,

00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:40.600
wow. And had been a volunteer and then they brought

00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:44.700
him onto staff. And I was like, yeah, I'm out.

00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:47.419
At that point, I just couldn't do it anymore.

00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.940
There was too many fractures. And it was just

00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:57.519
like, I think the problem is the ideology. The

00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:05.420
problem is constantly fostering an environment

00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:07.640
where accountability is left out on purpose.

00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:15.079
or respect is applied differently based on who

00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.680
you are inside of an organization and how you

00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.000
are being marginalized in society in general,

00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:23.160
right? So if you're just a little bit more respectful

00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:24.740
than society in general, well, then you're doing

00:17:24.740 --> 00:17:29.140
well. That's not what Jesus said. That's not

00:17:29.140 --> 00:17:34.099
right. And so it was just it got to the place

00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:36.299
where I was like, I can either continue to follow

00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:39.940
this ideology or I can reclaim my humanity. And

00:17:39.940 --> 00:17:44.140
I don't actually need someone threatening me

00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:47.039
with hell to show up in humane ways and fight

00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.279
for human rights. I don't need that. And so if

00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:52.460
that's true, I'll just worship God on my own.

00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.200
So that was the final straw. That was the final

00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.920
straw. And in that space, I'm hearing that you

00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:05.160
reclaim your humanity. And in this time, You

00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:10.200
were in corporate America, right, still? I had

00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.980
just left. I had just left a year before. Yeah.

00:18:13.059 --> 00:18:16.440
Okay. And all this stuff that we just talked

00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.599
about, that created who you were in this moment.

00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.460
And you're now experiencing yourself as being

00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:29.390
human, experiencing this humanity. When did you

00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:33.930
actually begin to build your business? Because

00:18:33.930 --> 00:18:37.069
I wanted to kind of do a little shift here. Because

00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:40.009
based on all this stuff that we talked about,

00:18:40.369 --> 00:18:44.069
it just seems like when you began to have your

00:18:44.069 --> 00:18:47.750
own company, a lot of what you've endured and

00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:50.529
went through. Oh, it came with me. Yeah, it came

00:18:50.529 --> 00:18:54.849
with you. And you began to, but you talk about,

00:18:54.849 --> 00:18:58.359
you know, true leadership and it's based on ethical

00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:00.480
relationships. And can you explain what you mean

00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.859
by that? Yeah. So this is the bridge, right?

00:19:05.019 --> 00:19:07.980
The bridge is growing up in a cult, I experienced

00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:10.460
what happens when we aren't invested in ethical

00:19:10.460 --> 00:19:13.420
leadership and relationship, the dire consequences

00:19:13.420 --> 00:19:15.799
for us, for our humanity, both individually and

00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.559
collectively. And so when I left that at 26,

00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.450
I started doing research on my own. looking for

00:19:22.450 --> 00:19:24.490
models for healthy leadership and relationships

00:19:24.490 --> 00:19:26.730
so that I could show up in the world in ways

00:19:26.730 --> 00:19:32.730
that felt honest and felt like because we know

00:19:32.730 --> 00:19:35.109
when we're doing something that's crappy, that's

00:19:35.109 --> 00:19:37.470
hurting someone else. We know. We can feel it.

00:19:37.549 --> 00:19:39.869
We carry it with us behind us. We drag it with

00:19:39.869 --> 00:19:42.710
us into every moment of the day. We know. We

00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:45.869
know. Unless you're a sociopath, you know, right?

00:19:46.009 --> 00:19:49.789
Yeah. And so like, I was dragging all this with

00:19:49.789 --> 00:19:51.609
me. And I'm like, something's not right. And

00:19:51.609 --> 00:19:54.230
I have to do something to show up as who I am.

00:19:54.230 --> 00:19:55.609
And I don't even know what that means. And I

00:19:55.609 --> 00:19:57.549
don't even know how to tap into that. And so

00:19:57.549 --> 00:19:59.650
I started doing that research for myself entirely

00:19:59.650 --> 00:20:02.970
selfishly. And then, you know, about six or eight

00:20:02.970 --> 00:20:06.990
years in, in, I guess, yeah, about six years

00:20:06.990 --> 00:20:10.430
in, I'm, you know, in my early thirties, and

00:20:10.430 --> 00:20:14.210
I'm like, hey, having these powerful conversations

00:20:14.210 --> 00:20:16.690
with other people, I'm leading these like group

00:20:16.690 --> 00:20:18.930
coaching sessions with like 14 people. I worked

00:20:18.930 --> 00:20:20.990
with like a hundred people over two and a half

00:20:20.990 --> 00:20:24.269
years. And, and I was like, there's something

00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:27.609
super powerful here, right? That, that apparently

00:20:27.609 --> 00:20:31.049
no one else is talking about. And then I took

00:20:31.049 --> 00:20:33.750
a break because it was mid pandemic, uh, you

00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:36.609
know, in like 2021, 2022, I had rebranded my

00:20:36.609 --> 00:20:40.970
business to the name Consonate, um, which is

00:20:40.970 --> 00:20:43.559
essentially like Harmony by Design. Right. That's

00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:47.140
what it means. It's a real word. It goes into

00:20:47.140 --> 00:20:48.519
more than that. You should definitely look it

00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.480
up. It's a really beautiful word. Yeah. And the

00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.440
definition is really beautiful. Yeah. No, it's

00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:55.920
really beautiful. I have my phone here. I could

00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.460
look it up, but I won't bother. But I definitely

00:20:58.460 --> 00:20:59.839
recommend that people look it up. I have the

00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.960
definition on my website, I think, too. So, you

00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:08.029
know, I rebrand, I write my company values. because

00:21:08.029 --> 00:21:10.769
they were my values, right? And I start moving

00:21:10.769 --> 00:21:13.589
towards speaking and consulting, because it was

00:21:13.589 --> 00:21:17.609
always there, right? It was always wanting to

00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:19.589
have these conversations and what I was learning

00:21:19.589 --> 00:21:21.529
and how I was reconnecting to my humanity and

00:21:21.529 --> 00:21:23.750
how it showed up in my leadership, right? Because

00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:25.769
anything you want to do as a leader shows up

00:21:25.769 --> 00:21:28.910
in our private life first. Yes, who we are as

00:21:28.910 --> 00:21:31.650
a person is always reflected in our leadership.

00:21:31.769 --> 00:21:34.049
Even if you try to hide it, it will leak out.

00:21:34.089 --> 00:21:37.509
Yeah. And it'll leak out big time. when you're

00:21:37.509 --> 00:21:40.250
least expecting it or least want it to, our insecurities,

00:21:40.329 --> 00:21:43.230
all of it, they will become very present and

00:21:43.230 --> 00:21:47.109
everyone around us will see them. And so I knew

00:21:47.109 --> 00:21:50.130
I wanted to be the kind of person who could sit

00:21:50.130 --> 00:21:53.250
with accountability, who could sit with what

00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:55.730
does it mean to actually be curious about others,

00:21:56.390 --> 00:21:58.490
especially for me as somebody who was raised

00:21:58.490 --> 00:22:01.470
in a cult and struggled with needing and wanting

00:22:01.470 --> 00:22:04.799
to be heard because I was never heard. I was

00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.680
never valued. People actually did listen and

00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.240
hear what I had to say, but then they would,

00:22:09.259 --> 00:22:11.079
to my face, tell me it wasn't valuable, then

00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:15.319
steal my ideas and implement them. Which happens

00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:17.380
a lot with very narcissistic environments, right?

00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.440
Yeah. And so I knew that what I had to say was

00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:23.220
valuable. I just needed to find the people who

00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:26.259
actually knew it to have value and who were going

00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:29.190
to pay. right? And respect it and honor it and

00:22:29.190 --> 00:22:32.309
pay me for my contribution, right? And I wish

00:22:32.309 --> 00:22:34.269
we didn't have to pay each other for our contributions,

00:22:34.390 --> 00:22:36.190
but we live in a capitalist world. We got to

00:22:36.190 --> 00:22:40.190
survive somehow, right? Yeah. So, you know, that

00:22:40.190 --> 00:22:43.130
ultimately was it led to my work. I didn't seek

00:22:43.130 --> 00:22:47.970
to do what I am doing right now. It just made

00:22:47.970 --> 00:22:52.380
the most sense. It was like you have now, you

00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:55.140
know, when I made that change, I had nearly a

00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:57.980
decade worth of research or a decade of research

00:22:57.980 --> 00:23:01.519
because it's now been 14, 15 years. I had a decade

00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:05.400
of research under my belt and had formed all

00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:07.740
of these powerful ideas and knew that people

00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:10.059
were connecting with them and had been told dozens

00:23:10.059 --> 00:23:12.059
of times, no one's talking about leadership this

00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:14.640
way. You need to get on stages. And I was like,

00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:18.339
great, point me. point me in the direction, get

00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:21.940
me on a stage, right? Yeah. And then that just,

00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:24.619
you know, kind of snowballed into where we are

00:23:24.619 --> 00:23:27.759
now. And I mean, I'm listening to you now and

00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:29.339
this is the first time I heard you and it's very

00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:32.579
engaging from, you know, how you tell the story

00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:35.759
to the way that you tell your story. And, and

00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.920
you talked about, you know, your insecurities

00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:42.859
or who you truly are will begin to creep, you

00:23:42.859 --> 00:23:46.460
know, show. And one of the things I'll talk about,

00:23:47.380 --> 00:23:50.079
especially here as one of our principles, I guess

00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.599
you could say is, is really work on you as a

00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:56.119
as a human being, you know, those issues that

00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.720
you may not be great at, just, you know, continue

00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.440
to build yourself in those areas, because who

00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:04.720
you are will seep out. And if you try to hide

00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:08.359
all that crap, the crap will show at some point,

00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.670
you know. And you talked about curiosity, and

00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:16.089
I wanted to ask you in leadership, what is essential

00:24:16.089 --> 00:24:18.869
for leaders to be constantly curious about, you

00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:21.769
know, and respecting the, and you talk about

00:24:21.769 --> 00:24:25.109
accountabilities. And so talk about that a little

00:24:25.109 --> 00:24:28.269
bit. Yeah, absolutely. Some of the most successful

00:24:28.269 --> 00:24:31.430
leaders of all time, long term, have been the

00:24:31.430 --> 00:24:34.130
most curious people, right? They knew they didn't

00:24:34.130 --> 00:24:36.309
know everything. They surrounded themselves with

00:24:36.309 --> 00:24:39.390
people who knew things they didn't know and were

00:24:39.390 --> 00:24:42.529
very smart in things that they had no knowledge

00:24:42.529 --> 00:24:45.029
or understanding of. And we cannot and should

00:24:45.029 --> 00:24:47.829
not try to know everything. It's impossible.

00:24:47.930 --> 00:24:51.769
It's impossible. And it's ridiculous. It's a

00:24:51.769 --> 00:24:54.150
ridiculous pursuit and it's a waste of your time.

00:24:54.289 --> 00:24:56.710
Surround yourself with incredible people, but

00:24:56.710 --> 00:24:59.950
surround yourself with incredible people who

00:24:59.950 --> 00:25:03.049
will long -term know themselves to be safe, to

00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:05.890
be seen, heard, understood, valued and cared

00:25:05.890 --> 00:25:10.009
for. as a part of your life and or your organization,

00:25:10.390 --> 00:25:12.710
you have to become the kind of person who's invested

00:25:12.710 --> 00:25:16.190
in those things for yourself first. And there's

00:25:16.190 --> 00:25:18.990
lots of societal messages that we have to confront

00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:27.109
that has to come first, right? And the big switch

00:25:27.109 --> 00:25:31.450
for me, was as a person and then translated into

00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:34.170
my leadership that helped my curiosity was the

00:25:34.170 --> 00:25:37.910
recognition that validation is not external.

00:25:39.890 --> 00:25:43.210
I am valid and I am valuable simply because I

00:25:43.210 --> 00:25:47.170
exist. No amount of productivity, no amount of

00:25:47.170 --> 00:25:49.430
contribution, no amount of any of that determines

00:25:49.430 --> 00:25:53.440
my worth or value. I exist separate from those

00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.380
things. I exist without those things. And I am

00:25:56.380 --> 00:25:58.440
valuable simply because I exist. Here on the

00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.859
Thrivel journey, we talk a lot about not just

00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:04.240
surviving, but thriving. And a big part of that

00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.700
for me has been understanding my health on a

00:26:06.700 --> 00:26:09.420
deeper level. That's why I partnered with Livegood

00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:11.960
and brought it under my company, Orion's Health.

00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:14.440
Not just because I believe in the products, but

00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:16.880
because I've seen what they can do firsthand.

00:26:17.380 --> 00:26:19.420
I've walked through some hard health chapters

00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:22.980
in my life, including cancer, and a kidney transplant.

00:26:23.420 --> 00:26:26.700
And I know what it feels like when your body's

00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:29.319
working against you. That's why we're offering

00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.200
two free tools that help me and can help you

00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.660
too. First, go to MyFreeHealthReport .com for

00:26:35.660 --> 00:26:39.079
slash Orion's Health. Take our quick health questionnaire

00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:41.640
and get a personalized report created by Dr.

00:26:41.779 --> 00:26:43.859
Ryan Goodkin, Livegood's Director of Product

00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:47.140
Development. It's clear, actionable, and totally

00:26:47.140 --> 00:26:50.880
free. Second, visit myfreedetox .com and get

00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.900
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00:26:53.900 --> 00:26:56.819
your first product order. It's a gentle, natural

00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:59.599
way to clear out toxins and start fresh, something

00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:03.240
I personally use and stand behind. This isn't

00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:05.460
just a sponsorship. It's part of my mission through

00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:08.539
Orion's Health to help people thrive and body,

00:27:08.900 --> 00:27:12.160
mind and spirit. Of course, of course, always,

00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:14.019
always, always consult your physician before

00:27:14.019 --> 00:27:16.079
starting any new supplement or health regimen.

00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.660
Your body is unique and your healthcare provider

00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:21.140
should always be part of the conversation. The

00:27:21.140 --> 00:27:23.859
links are in the show notes. Now tap in and take

00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:28.680
your next step toward thriving. And then, then

00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:30.579
when you enter the room, you enter in differently.

00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:32.599
It's not, you're not entering the room with ego.

00:27:32.740 --> 00:27:34.799
You're not entering the room to eclipse or dominate.

00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:39.119
You're entering the room to be a part of. to

00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:42.500
be a part of community, to be a part of we as

00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:44.819
human beings are part of nature, to be a part

00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:48.039
of the ecosystems that we are meant to exist

00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:50.299
as a part of. It's healthy relationship. That's

00:27:50.299 --> 00:27:52.440
what it is. It's an ecosystem of relationships.

00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:58.039
An ecosystem of ideas, thoughts, exchanges. And

00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:01.059
so for us as leaders, we have to be curious.

00:28:01.099 --> 00:28:02.980
We have to be talking to people at every level

00:28:02.980 --> 00:28:04.720
of our organization. We have to be talking to

00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:07.869
people that we don't like. We have to be hiring

00:28:07.869 --> 00:28:09.930
people who are perfectly capable who we don't

00:28:09.930 --> 00:28:13.069
like. I'm not talking about hiring people who

00:28:13.069 --> 00:28:16.910
are purposely going to try to destroy our organization

00:28:16.910 --> 00:28:19.529
or destroy our culture. But if your culture is

00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:21.789
not inclusive and if your culture doesn't make

00:28:21.789 --> 00:28:24.509
space for a diverse array of human beings, you

00:28:24.509 --> 00:28:27.509
are going to fail. And we know that in hard numbers,

00:28:27.529 --> 00:28:32.210
right? So our curiosity is necessary to facilitate

00:28:32.210 --> 00:28:34.490
the kind of environment where a diverse array

00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:37.470
of human beings are seen, heard, understood,

00:28:37.769 --> 00:28:40.190
valued, can bring their entire thriving selves

00:28:40.190 --> 00:28:41.890
because we're contributing to their thriving.

00:28:42.109 --> 00:28:44.910
So then they're contributing to ours, right?

00:28:45.450 --> 00:28:48.609
And so it starts there. It has to be there, right?

00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:51.170
And that's why I talk with leaders about relationship

00:28:51.170 --> 00:28:53.710
first. We can't talk about anything else until

00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:55.930
we talk about how you understand relationship

00:28:55.930 --> 00:28:59.349
and you understand how to build the kind of relationships.

00:28:59.710 --> 00:29:02.049
that will create the kind of culture that will

00:29:02.049 --> 00:29:04.990
bring in the kind of people and foster the kind

00:29:04.990 --> 00:29:07.630
of environment that drives creativity, innovation

00:29:07.630 --> 00:29:10.589
and profitability. It has to start with relationship.

00:29:10.890 --> 00:29:14.390
It has to start there. So yeah, we start with

00:29:14.390 --> 00:29:19.019
curiosity and you look at CEOs like Or, you know,

00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:21.619
leaders like Massimo Battura and his three Michelin

00:29:21.619 --> 00:29:25.480
star restaurant. You look at organizations like

00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:28.819
the ESOP out of Delaware that is Goran Associates.

00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.259
You look at King Arthur Baking Company. You look

00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:33.660
at Stewart's Shops, the guest and convenience

00:29:33.660 --> 00:29:36.519
store station that's up in the Northeast. You

00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:39.549
know, you look at the... the way that Pixar used

00:29:39.549 --> 00:29:41.410
to run their organization. I'm not sure if their

00:29:41.410 --> 00:29:43.690
leadership might've changed some things over

00:29:43.690 --> 00:29:45.069
the last couple of years, because I think they've

00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:46.529
been struggling a little bit, but you look at

00:29:46.529 --> 00:29:49.109
their kind of old school philosophies, you look

00:29:49.109 --> 00:29:51.670
at all these different organizations, how Campbell's

00:29:51.670 --> 00:29:54.869
Soup, their last CEO transformed that organization.

00:29:55.009 --> 00:29:58.130
You can look and see that curiosity was the bedrock

00:29:58.130 --> 00:30:02.970
of it all. Of it all. Yeah. I love that. I mean,

00:30:03.049 --> 00:30:05.509
I think just being curious about life. And then

00:30:05.509 --> 00:30:07.970
you talked about it earlier. Just being curious

00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:11.829
about life really takes takes you on a path of

00:30:11.829 --> 00:30:15.910
just, I mean, just exploration. And I think that's

00:30:15.910 --> 00:30:18.569
what we need. And can you share a specific example

00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:23.910
from your work with ethical leadership? Yeah,

00:30:24.069 --> 00:30:27.269
just at the yeah, leave it there. Yeah, yeah.

00:30:27.509 --> 00:30:30.309
You know, I have different kinds of conversations

00:30:30.309 --> 00:30:32.009
with different people. And one of the ones I've

00:30:32.009 --> 00:30:34.369
been having more often is about neurodiversity,

00:30:34.630 --> 00:30:36.849
about, and for those who don't know neurodiversity

00:30:36.849 --> 00:30:40.430
is a classification for those of us who are diagnosed

00:30:40.430 --> 00:30:44.109
with ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dyspraxia. And there's

00:30:44.109 --> 00:30:46.230
a lot of conversations being had right now because

00:30:46.230 --> 00:30:48.349
certain people are trying to invalidate our existence

00:30:48.349 --> 00:30:51.869
or call us an epidemic of diagnoses, so on and

00:30:51.869 --> 00:30:55.000
so forth, which by the way, it's not. It's just

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.619
that before 1984, people like myself could be

00:30:57.619 --> 00:31:00.480
forcibly institutionalized, lobotomized and sterilized.

00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:03.460
And so we had to hide our identity in order to

00:31:03.460 --> 00:31:05.480
assimilate, in order to not have violent action

00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.900
taken against us. And so I have conversations

00:31:08.900 --> 00:31:11.059
that go back to curiosity with leaders who are

00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:16.700
looking to bring about successful organizations.

00:31:17.019 --> 00:31:25.660
And we talk about diversity as as a part of necessary

00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:28.779
biodiversity, right? Because if we didn't have

00:31:28.779 --> 00:31:30.960
neurological diversity, neurodiversity, if we

00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.019
didn't have that and we didn't have biodiversity,

00:31:34.059 --> 00:31:38.740
one virus, one harmful ideology could wipe out

00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:42.039
the entire human species like that. Yeah, I agree.

00:31:42.579 --> 00:31:45.700
Yeah. So diversity is a necessary part of the

00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:48.720
human species' perpetuation, survival and success,

00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:52.980
right? And so when I look at it, I can see the

00:31:52.980 --> 00:31:54.900
light in their eyes change, right? When I say

00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:56.440
this to them, right? Because it also gives them

00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.400
a powerful talk track for like their board, right?

00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:06.140
And say that, it's like, oh shoot. And then I

00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:08.420
followed up with the hard numbers, right? And

00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:10.299
I look at them and I say, Citibank taught us,

00:32:10.299 --> 00:32:12.859
they came out with a study that came out in 2020,

00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:19.900
right? Citibank that said the US economy, still

00:32:19.900 --> 00:32:21.740
currently one of the greatest economies in the

00:32:21.740 --> 00:32:28.339
world, lost out on $16 trillion due to a lack

00:32:28.339 --> 00:32:31.039
of diversity. Let's put trillion in a perspective

00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:32.619
because a lot of times we have a hard time wrapping

00:32:32.619 --> 00:32:34.900
ourselves around what a trillion actually is,

00:32:35.019 --> 00:32:40.140
right? So a million seconds is about 12 days.

00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:47.000
A billion seconds is about 32 years. Million,

00:32:47.059 --> 00:32:52.519
billion. 12 days, 32 years, right? That's why

00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:55.900
billionaires don't need to exist moving on. So

00:32:55.900 --> 00:33:02.920
trillion, right? A trillion is 32 ,688 years.

00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:07.160
That even just that blows up the scope right

00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:11.019
there. And the US economy lost out on $16 trillion.

00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:15.960
That's due to a lack of diversity. That's kind

00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:18.980
of important now, especially with the assault

00:33:18.980 --> 00:33:24.420
on what diversity is for us today. Yeah. And

00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:27.640
a lot of people, falsely A, don't even know what

00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.220
DEI stands for, diversity, equity, and inclusion,

00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:33.519
right? And also don't understand its purpose

00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:36.440
and believe the false narrative because they

00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:38.160
don't know what it is. Maybe they weren't exposed

00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.730
to so on and so forth. It's about giving somebody

00:33:41.730 --> 00:33:44.589
who has no merit a job. And that's not it at

00:33:44.589 --> 00:33:50.150
all. It's looking at everyone who has merit and

00:33:50.150 --> 00:33:53.150
has the qualifications for that job and not being

00:33:53.150 --> 00:33:55.650
legally allowed, which is already illegal anyway,

00:33:55.690 --> 00:33:59.670
but not being legally allowed to, in fact, dismiss

00:33:59.670 --> 00:34:04.109
somebody for their race, gender, intersectional

00:34:04.109 --> 00:34:09.230
identity, whatever it is, right? And recognizing

00:34:09.230 --> 00:34:14.469
that And by having DEI initiatives, creating

00:34:14.469 --> 00:34:16.989
the kind of cultures that actually make it safe

00:34:16.989 --> 00:34:20.070
for a diverse group of people to exist inside

00:34:20.070 --> 00:34:22.190
of an organization. And I'm going to speak as

00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:24.409
a white neurodivergent woman for just a second

00:34:24.409 --> 00:34:27.179
and say, as a neurodivergent, white neurodivergent

00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:30.860
woman, how I experienced adverse consequences

00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:33.000
of being a neurodivergent person inside of an

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.840
organization because there was no giving a darn

00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:40.539
about DEI, about the diverse group of people

00:34:40.539 --> 00:34:43.059
that they were actually supposed to lead. Right?

00:34:44.300 --> 00:34:46.619
I had a boss look me in the face and tell me

00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:50.239
that he kept over $20 ,000 of my commission because

00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:54.400
it was only my second year in sales. And that

00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:57.679
even though I had worked 30 days straight as

00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:01.659
a salaried worker, so no overtime, because he

00:35:01.659 --> 00:35:07.809
abandoned me to respond to three RFPs. for the

00:35:07.809 --> 00:35:13.329
government on my own. I worked incredible amounts

00:35:13.329 --> 00:35:15.869
of hours. I had nearly killed myself. I was on

00:35:15.869 --> 00:35:18.949
the brink of complete and total burnout. I was

00:35:18.949 --> 00:35:21.989
getting sick all of the time because I could

00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:24.409
analyze so much information and I could put out

00:35:24.409 --> 00:35:26.809
so much information so quickly. I was unduly

00:35:26.809 --> 00:35:29.369
burdened with the job of three different people

00:35:29.369 --> 00:35:33.769
and it nearly killed me. And they stole my money

00:35:33.769 --> 00:35:38.889
and told me to my face. I never got it in writing,

00:35:38.949 --> 00:35:41.869
so it was hard for me to fight legally. But he

00:35:41.869 --> 00:35:44.409
felt so confident and he told me to my face.

00:35:45.469 --> 00:35:47.909
Now, had there been more accountability inside

00:35:47.909 --> 00:35:50.670
of that organization, had there been proper understanding

00:35:50.670 --> 00:35:53.210
of what leadership is, had there been initiatives

00:35:53.210 --> 00:35:56.730
for a diverse group of people to be counseling

00:35:56.730 --> 00:35:59.949
that leader, that CEO, it would have been much

00:35:59.949 --> 00:36:01.630
harder for him to get away with saying those

00:36:01.630 --> 00:36:05.530
things and doing those things. So we need to

00:36:05.530 --> 00:36:08.530
understand that this is causing direct harm to

00:36:08.530 --> 00:36:12.269
people, even if they are hired. They are being

00:36:12.269 --> 00:36:17.170
harmed inside of organizations, when there isn't

00:36:17.170 --> 00:36:21.590
training and understanding on the, the eclectic,

00:36:21.769 --> 00:36:23.889
right, we can use that word that the diverse

00:36:23.889 --> 00:36:28.750
reality that it is to be human. Right. Right.

00:36:29.809 --> 00:36:35.730
In that space, you talk about not only curiosity,

00:36:35.969 --> 00:36:38.829
but empathy. And I think in that space, that

00:36:38.829 --> 00:36:41.849
probably would work. What do you mean by lead

00:36:41.849 --> 00:36:45.389
with empathy? And how does that contribute to

00:36:45.389 --> 00:36:49.030
building stronger teams? And it seems like if

00:36:49.030 --> 00:36:52.590
that boss had some empathy, they wouldn't have

00:36:52.590 --> 00:36:54.909
stole that money from you. Right. Well, I think

00:36:54.909 --> 00:36:57.789
it also was insecurity problems, but it is what

00:36:57.789 --> 00:37:02.130
it is, right? So I think empathy asks us to lead

00:37:02.130 --> 00:37:05.139
with curiosity. And I can't divorce those two

00:37:05.139 --> 00:37:07.480
things. I can't for the life of me figure out

00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:09.739
how we're empathetic without curiosity. And I

00:37:09.739 --> 00:37:12.559
can't figure out how we're curious, truly curious

00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:17.219
without empathy. Because empathy requires us

00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:20.139
to consider someone else's lived experience as

00:37:20.139 --> 00:37:24.420
completely different than our own. And to recognize

00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:28.019
that that experience is valuable and valid. And

00:37:28.019 --> 00:37:34.219
we don't get a say in it. And to say, hey, I'm

00:37:34.219 --> 00:37:37.280
going to sit with and make space for your lived

00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:42.239
reality. Right? I'm not going to deny that you

00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.340
exist. I'm not going to design your lived reality.

00:37:45.460 --> 00:37:47.039
I'm not going to deny it. I'm going to make space

00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:52.860
for you and your lived reality. And that's when

00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:57.920
we can actually craft cultures where people are

00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:01.760
safe. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right? Like without

00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:04.769
empathy, people are not safe. And we know it.

00:38:04.769 --> 00:38:07.969
You can feel it in your bones. You can feel it

00:38:07.969 --> 00:38:09.969
the minute you walk there. It's funny because

00:38:09.969 --> 00:38:12.210
I'm not going to name the town. I live in South

00:38:12.210 --> 00:38:14.889
Jersey. My sister happened to travel to a town

00:38:14.889 --> 00:38:17.590
here in New Jersey. And she was like, have you

00:38:17.590 --> 00:38:20.269
ever been to this town? I'm like, yeah. It's

00:38:20.269 --> 00:38:23.230
funny how you can feel the reality of that town

00:38:23.230 --> 00:38:26.429
as soon as you drive into it, right? She's like,

00:38:26.429 --> 00:38:29.869
yeah. I was like, why don't you go look at some

00:38:29.869 --> 00:38:34.369
demographics, right? And she was like, oh, Shoot.

00:38:36.150 --> 00:38:41.940
Right? And so we can feel. culture, we can feel,

00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.179
right? You can feel someone's presence, even

00:38:44.179 --> 00:38:46.179
if your back is to the door when they walk into

00:38:46.179 --> 00:38:49.480
a room, you can feel who people are. We have

00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:52.559
powerful presence, we have powerful lived realities.

00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:55.039
And together, when we honor that, we create the

00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:56.980
kind of space where people aren't driving into

00:38:56.980 --> 00:38:59.599
our town and knowing they're not safe, right?

00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:03.300
We can create the kind of space where we're financially

00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:08.280
thriving, right? And it's necessary, right? Like

00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:11.119
empathy is necessary. Trying to understand the

00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:12.840
lived experience of people outside of self is

00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:15.260
necessary. And I like to break this down in hard

00:39:15.260 --> 00:39:18.739
numbers for people to sit with, right? So the

00:39:18.739 --> 00:39:20.739
United States, the population of the United States,

00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:24.199
Americans only make up 4 .34 % of the global

00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:27.340
population. Wow. I want us to sit with that,

00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:31.780
right? Only 4 .34 % of the global population.

00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:36.980
Number one, pin that. Number two, white people.

00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:41.059
only make up between 7 and 16 percent, depending

00:39:41.059 --> 00:39:43.559
on who's assessing and what you classify as white,

00:39:44.019 --> 00:39:48.639
of the global population. That means 84 percent

00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:55.559
of the global population is not white. We call

00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:58.559
it 95 percent of the global population is not

00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:03.019
American. And so when we take these two truths

00:40:03.019 --> 00:40:05.699
and we sit with them, we recognize if we want

00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:09.139
to compete in an ever globalized economy and

00:40:09.139 --> 00:40:12.940
an ever globalized world, we cannot do so centering

00:40:12.940 --> 00:40:16.360
our experience as either Americans or even more

00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:20.940
specifically as white Americans. Right and set

00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:23.199
CFOs of the biggest companies and countries and

00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:25.440
companies in the world will tell you this That

00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.199
they are not divesting from DEI because it would

00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:30.360
mean catastrophic things for their organizations.

00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:33.880
They're just renaming them Because they can't

00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:37.099
they can't it would literally mean the destruction

00:40:37.099 --> 00:40:41.099
of their organizations. Yeah And so when we can

00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:43.360
sit with that reality we can recognize that there

00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:46.019
are so many other realities that we need to be

00:40:46.019 --> 00:40:49.769
considering in our everyday life, if we actually

00:40:49.769 --> 00:40:52.130
want to create the kind of world where we all

00:40:52.130 --> 00:40:55.510
are seen, heard, understood, valued, and cared

00:40:55.510 --> 00:40:59.110
for, there's more than enough for everyone. For

00:40:59.110 --> 00:41:00.909
that reality to be true for everyone, there's

00:41:00.909 --> 00:41:03.550
more than enough. We just have to sit behind

00:41:03.550 --> 00:41:07.389
the, you know, creating organizations and cultures

00:41:07.389 --> 00:41:10.190
and, you know, our society in a way that honors

00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:13.170
that. It honors that everyone is contributing

00:41:13.170 --> 00:41:15.449
and we all succeed when we succeed together.

00:41:17.130 --> 00:41:23.250
I like when you stated those facts as truths,

00:41:23.250 --> 00:41:26.590
right? It's not something that can be, it's not

00:41:26.590 --> 00:41:30.289
an opinion. Nope. Google it. If you don't believe

00:41:30.289 --> 00:41:37.150
me, Google it. The great Googler. These are truths,

00:41:37.329 --> 00:41:40.750
these are facts. And the way that you just shared

00:41:40.750 --> 00:41:44.409
that, when somebody's sitting down, actually

00:41:44.409 --> 00:41:49.300
sitting with that. there could be just a revelation

00:41:49.300 --> 00:41:55.199
of who they are in this world. And you speak

00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:00.519
about, in the world of community, you speak about

00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:02.280
a community and leadership. How do you define

00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:06.039
community in the context of business and leadership?

00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:10.960
Yeah. So I define community as a human manifestation

00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:14.519
of an ecosystem, as the human version of an ecosystem,

00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:18.260
right? Because again, humans, we are nature.

00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:21.460
Shocking. I know we never really sit with that.

00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:23.920
We never ever consider that we spend all of our

00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:26.699
time trying to separate ourselves from it. But

00:42:26.699 --> 00:42:29.000
we are nature and we only live because of all

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:32.019
of other all of the rest of nature also living.

00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:36.320
So when it comes to our leadership, we have to

00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:38.780
recognize that we are meant to be fostering an

00:42:38.780 --> 00:42:41.179
ecosystem. Now my favorite definition of an ecosystem

00:42:41.530 --> 00:42:44.269
The only one I ever use is the one from National

00:42:44.269 --> 00:42:46.409
Geographic. Of course, they nailed it, right?

00:42:47.449 --> 00:42:51.269
So they define an ecosystem as a geographic area

00:42:51.269 --> 00:42:53.989
where plants, animals and other organisms, as

00:42:53.989 --> 00:42:56.889
well as weather and landscape work together to

00:42:56.889 --> 00:43:03.230
form a bubble of life. I love that part. A bubble

00:43:03.230 --> 00:43:06.010
of life. Isn't that the whole freaking goal?

00:43:07.289 --> 00:43:09.570
a leader inside of an organization, don't we

00:43:09.570 --> 00:43:12.130
want our people operating from a place of life,

00:43:12.730 --> 00:43:14.489
of our organization feeling like a bubble of

00:43:14.489 --> 00:43:16.610
life? Don't we know that innovation, creativity,

00:43:16.889 --> 00:43:19.110
innovation and profitability will be a given

00:43:19.110 --> 00:43:23.469
inside of that type of culture, inside of that

00:43:23.469 --> 00:43:25.789
kind of organization, inside of that kind of

00:43:25.789 --> 00:43:29.829
community? Right, right. Yes, it will be. We

00:43:29.829 --> 00:43:31.570
know that it is because we look at the organizations

00:43:31.570 --> 00:43:34.030
who are doing that and they are tremendously

00:43:34.030 --> 00:43:37.219
successful. Right with low turnover rates. I

00:43:37.219 --> 00:43:40.079
mean they can't get rid of people right like

00:43:41.109 --> 00:43:43.230
And because turnover, by the way, for those of

00:43:43.230 --> 00:43:45.130
you don't know, is extraordinarily expensive.

00:43:46.130 --> 00:43:47.949
Extraordinarily expensive for organizations,

00:43:48.349 --> 00:43:50.869
right? That investment is walked out the door

00:43:50.869 --> 00:43:53.190
and now you've got to pay to train a whole other

00:43:53.190 --> 00:43:56.510
person. You've got a slow time, a six month time

00:43:56.510 --> 00:43:58.650
before they're really acclimated and kind of

00:43:58.650 --> 00:44:00.630
up and running. So you've got undue burden on

00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:02.489
other people who are likely to burn out and also

00:44:02.489 --> 00:44:06.050
leave. It's a cascading, tremendous problem.

00:44:07.659 --> 00:44:10.659
So if we foster organizations with bubbles of

00:44:10.659 --> 00:44:15.579
life, that stops being such a problem, right?

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:18.239
And innovation and profitability are just built

00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:20.960
in because people are bringing their whole thriving

00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:24.599
selves, right? So when I'm talking to leaders,

00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:27.559
whether it be on a stage or it be one -on -one,

00:44:27.940 --> 00:44:32.320
we're talking about that. This is not about control.

00:44:32.659 --> 00:44:36.210
This is not about you knowing everything. No

00:44:36.210 --> 00:44:38.849
one cares about those things. It's what do you

00:44:38.849 --> 00:44:42.489
empower? What do you facilitate? What do you

00:44:42.489 --> 00:44:46.750
empower to be created? How do you empower your

00:44:46.750 --> 00:44:49.590
people? How do you support your people? Just

00:44:49.590 --> 00:44:52.289
like the land and the weather, which I propose

00:44:52.289 --> 00:44:54.010
is like the land is like leadership and the weather

00:44:54.010 --> 00:44:57.190
is like culture, right? Inside of that ecosystem,

00:44:57.989 --> 00:45:00.289
just like the land and the weather support us

00:45:00.289 --> 00:45:03.579
in real life. that's how leadership needs to

00:45:03.579 --> 00:45:06.280
show up inside of our organizations, consistently

00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:09.280
contributing to our people's thriving. I love

00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:11.340
that. First of all, I was okay, bubble of life.

00:45:11.559 --> 00:45:14.260
I was, I was like, when I was ready, I was like,

00:45:14.300 --> 00:45:15.739
what is the bubble of life? I mean, you kind

00:45:15.739 --> 00:45:19.900
of explain that here. But just when just that

00:45:19.900 --> 00:45:23.079
term by itself is very powerful, you know, so

00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:27.599
good. When I read it, I was like, damn, National

00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:33.210
Geographic for the win. I'm totally Bubble of

00:45:33.210 --> 00:45:38.150
life. I love that and You're talking about fostering

00:45:38.150 --> 00:45:45.090
fostering I've had it but Basically fostering

00:45:45.090 --> 00:45:46.849
the ecosystem fostering the ecosystem. Thank

00:45:46.849 --> 00:45:51.789
you. Yeah, what are What are some typical practical

00:45:51.789 --> 00:45:56.030
ways to actually foster the collaboration within

00:45:56.030 --> 00:45:59.409
it within the ecosystem and innovation in that

00:45:59.409 --> 00:46:02.519
kind of environment value, dissent, and failure.

00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:08.320
Value, dissent, and failure. I just needed to

00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:11.300
let it sit there for a minute. I had to receive

00:46:11.300 --> 00:46:14.780
it first. I know. If we cannot, okay, if you

00:46:14.780 --> 00:46:17.199
look at Michael Jordan, right? Michael Jordan

00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:19.139
not picked for his high school basketball. We

00:46:19.139 --> 00:46:21.900
all know that, right? Mm -hmm. Then he got down

00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:23.920
to business. He got down to the fundamentals,

00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:26.300
which in my line of work is curiosity, respect,

00:46:26.380 --> 00:46:27.659
and accountability. But in his line of work,

00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:31.179
it's free throws. It's shooting the ball. It's

00:46:31.179 --> 00:46:34.039
playing horse, whatever, right? It's getting

00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:36.880
the shots up. It's practicing the moves. It's

00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:39.380
all the basics. You know a great player because

00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:43.280
they constantly pay attention to the basics,

00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:46.849
the fundamentals, right? That's how he became

00:46:46.849 --> 00:46:49.789
a great player. That's how he became one of the

00:46:49.789 --> 00:46:51.550
greatest players. I'm not going to argue whether

00:46:51.550 --> 00:46:52.949
or not he's the greatest or not. That's not what

00:46:52.949 --> 00:46:56.190
we're here for, right? One of the greatest players

00:46:56.190 --> 00:46:58.449
of all time, right? In any sport. We're just

00:46:58.449 --> 00:47:00.369
going to open up and say of any sport, right?

00:47:00.429 --> 00:47:03.449
It's arguably so, yes. Arguably. Yes. Right?

00:47:04.110 --> 00:47:08.349
And so when we can understand that, right? That

00:47:08.349 --> 00:47:11.429
failure, he failed over and over and over again,

00:47:11.449 --> 00:47:14.139
but he pivoted quite literally. In real life,

00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:17.219
he pivoted with his body, but he also pivoted

00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:19.500
in reality. Every time he came up against a roadblock,

00:47:19.980 --> 00:47:23.179
he pivoted. He learned more. He got back down

00:47:23.179 --> 00:47:26.719
to basics and he, and he learned the fundamentals

00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:29.940
of the game in a way that he could put anything

00:47:29.940 --> 00:47:32.320
together because it lived and breathed inside

00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:35.219
of him. Right. When we want to be a great leader

00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:38.320
and we want to foster powerful organizations.

00:47:39.190 --> 00:47:41.929
We have to practice curiosity, respect and accountability.

00:47:42.090 --> 00:47:43.889
Like our life depends on it and our organization

00:47:43.889 --> 00:47:47.409
depends on it because it does. Because it does.

00:47:47.789 --> 00:47:54.989
And so we have to value dissent and failure because

00:47:54.989 --> 00:47:57.269
they are a natural part of what it is to be alive

00:47:57.269 --> 00:48:01.070
and to be human. And if we aren't, then we aren't

00:48:01.070 --> 00:48:04.829
valuing curiosity. We're valuing perfectionism,

00:48:04.829 --> 00:48:07.289
which is unattainable and inhumane fundamentally

00:48:07.289 --> 00:48:10.210
as a concept. Yeah, because it's unattainable.

00:48:10.550 --> 00:48:13.829
It is unattainable. And I think we're always

00:48:13.829 --> 00:48:17.530
I think it's important to get the concept is

00:48:17.530 --> 00:48:21.250
always pushing for perfection. Oh, but being

00:48:21.250 --> 00:48:24.889
great for greatness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah,

00:48:25.250 --> 00:48:28.849
being perfect is just because how many innovations

00:48:28.849 --> 00:48:32.179
happened by accident. How many times have you

00:48:32.179 --> 00:48:33.800
learned somebody was actually trying to create

00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:36.159
something else and accidentally created post

00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.539
-its, accidentally created rubber, accidentally

00:48:38.539 --> 00:48:40.559
created, you know, this, that, and the other

00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:44.380
thing. So many innovations have come from accidents

00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:46.539
where people were given the space and time and

00:48:46.539 --> 00:48:51.780
boredom. Access to boredom. One of our most powerful

00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:53.559
tools as human beings when it comes to innovation,

00:48:53.980 --> 00:48:57.300
given access to boredom so that in fact, they

00:48:57.300 --> 00:48:59.440
could see the thing that was right in front of

00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.079
their damn face and was a super profitable innovation.

00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.179
Right? Had they been required to clean up their

00:49:07.179 --> 00:49:10.559
area efficiently all the time, right? I'm not

00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:12.800
saying that we don't work for efficiency. I'm

00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.119
not saying that we, but we do not put those things

00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.329
as first. Those are just... part of, right? Yes,

00:49:19.329 --> 00:49:21.369
we need to build inefficiency. We need to make

00:49:21.369 --> 00:49:23.469
sure that we're doing things well. But we also

00:49:23.469 --> 00:49:25.829
need to make sure that we're making space for

00:49:25.829 --> 00:49:28.170
people's humanity and their creativity and their

00:49:28.170 --> 00:49:29.949
innovation, because it's in those moments when

00:49:29.949 --> 00:49:33.349
things are flawed that we actually discover incredible

00:49:33.349 --> 00:49:37.710
things. Yeah. Within the flaws, we discover incredible

00:49:37.710 --> 00:49:43.769
things. I guess the through line of what we're

00:49:43.769 --> 00:49:49.840
talking about here is that Business is important.

00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.380
And you know, it helps, you know, run the world

00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:54.719
and all that kind of good stuff. But who you're

00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:56.880
who you're who you're being as a human being

00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:01.940
really gives way to how that organization will

00:50:01.940 --> 00:50:06.159
be run or how it will be built or how it will

00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:10.539
thrive or not. And I think it's important. What

00:50:10.539 --> 00:50:12.320
we're saying here is to really work on yourself

00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:15.739
as a human being in different areas, so that

00:50:15.739 --> 00:50:17.900
whatever you who you are, whoever you are, You

00:50:17.900 --> 00:50:21.619
can bring that to your business. Yeah. And you'll

00:50:21.619 --> 00:50:23.559
find your way as a leader and as an organization.

00:50:23.780 --> 00:50:25.539
You'll find your way much easier when you lean

00:50:25.539 --> 00:50:27.420
into who you are and empower your people to do

00:50:27.420 --> 00:50:29.380
the same. Empower your people to do the same.

00:50:29.780 --> 00:50:33.739
And for the new entrepreneurs, what's the most

00:50:33.739 --> 00:50:37.179
important lesson you've learned about leading

00:50:37.179 --> 00:50:42.739
with intention? The pivot. The pivot. I know

00:50:42.739 --> 00:50:45.719
that. Yeah, right? Don't we all? You've been

00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:46.960
in business long enough. I've been in business

00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:49.400
for myself since 2016, coming up on 10 years.

00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:56.000
Given new information, I will always change my

00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:01.280
mind. Given new information. I did. I didn't

00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:03.599
go to school for this. I didn't go to school

00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:05.179
to be a speaker. I went to school to be an interior

00:51:05.179 --> 00:51:07.440
designer. That's a whole conversation unto itself

00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.480
because I had to pick something that was gender

00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:14.219
appropriate. It's not really what I wanted to

00:51:14.219 --> 00:51:16.199
go to school for. But I wanted to be a lawyer,

00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:18.699
but that's a whole other thing, right? But, you

00:51:18.699 --> 00:51:21.739
know, I figured out that, you know, I could spend

00:51:21.739 --> 00:51:24.360
a decade researching these things and I could

00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:26.539
look at scholarly work and I could in fact have

00:51:26.539 --> 00:51:28.679
a very powerful and informed opinion based on

00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:31.019
my lived experience inside of the opposite of

00:51:31.019 --> 00:51:33.460
these things and be able to bring a powerful

00:51:33.460 --> 00:51:35.739
perspective to the world. I pivoted my way right

00:51:35.739 --> 00:51:38.659
into being a public speaker accidentally and

00:51:38.659 --> 00:51:41.639
then on purpose. right? At first it was like

00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:43.820
kind of accidental, right? And then it became

00:51:43.820 --> 00:51:49.300
definitely on purpose. And honestly, I'm so glad

00:51:49.300 --> 00:51:51.320
I'm not in interior design anymore because it's

00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:55.340
very dependent on the economy, right? Not everything

00:51:55.340 --> 00:51:57.679
is, but in a way that just was not great for

00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:01.739
my mental health. And so, I pivoted my way here.

00:52:02.409 --> 00:52:04.329
Right. And I pivoted my way through my career

00:52:04.329 --> 00:52:06.210
and the transition between the two, I didn't

00:52:06.210 --> 00:52:07.989
just one day go to bed as an interior designer

00:52:07.989 --> 00:52:09.309
and the next day wake up as a public speaker.

00:52:09.590 --> 00:52:11.210
You have to bring your audience along with you.

00:52:11.210 --> 00:52:13.429
You have to, you know, there's so many steps

00:52:13.429 --> 00:52:15.250
inside of there. It's not an overnight thing.

00:52:15.329 --> 00:52:17.369
And I think that's really, that's really the

00:52:17.369 --> 00:52:19.269
reality is if you're becoming an entrepreneur,

00:52:19.269 --> 00:52:21.090
because you expect or want to be an overnight

00:52:21.090 --> 00:52:23.869
success, you will not be prepared for the number

00:52:23.869 --> 00:52:25.630
of pivots that it's going to take for you to

00:52:25.630 --> 00:52:29.730
actually be successful. A hundred percent agree.

00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:36.800
Yeah, you I gave some space to that for a minute

00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:42.099
You you talked about how at first it was accidental

00:52:42.099 --> 00:52:46.039
right and then it was on purpose. Yeah What do

00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:47.480
you mean by that? What does that look like and

00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:50.539
I get the picture of it for myself I know for

00:52:50.539 --> 00:52:53.360
anybody that probably going through it and they

00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.960
yeah in that space Yeah, what does that look

00:52:55.960 --> 00:52:59.619
like for them or what? For me, it was like, what

00:52:59.619 --> 00:53:02.440
in the world am I doing? And how exactly do I

00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:06.139
do this? And if you aren't networking, by the

00:53:06.139 --> 00:53:08.340
way, as an entrepreneur, or if you're considering

00:53:08.340 --> 00:53:11.679
starting a business, you have to be networking.

00:53:12.219 --> 00:53:15.059
When people say your net worth is dependent on

00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:19.119
your net work, I am telling you there is no truer

00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:21.659
thing that has ever been spoken. And you are

00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:23.619
going to need support in ways you don't even

00:53:23.619 --> 00:53:27.090
know how to conceptualize in this moment. And

00:53:27.090 --> 00:53:31.960
so network, but for me, it looked like. Having

00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:34.599
to pivot who I was networking with and how I

00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:36.599
was networking the kinds of people I was connecting

00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:38.800
to and spending time with getting myself around

00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:41.880
other speakers Being vulnerable enough to ask

00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.059
and curious enough right vulnerable and overt

00:53:44.059 --> 00:53:45.960
vulnerability and curiosity our best friends

00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:48.880
To ask the kinds of questions to help fill in

00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:51.619
the gaps of knowledge Studying other speakers

00:53:51.619 --> 00:53:53.780
making sure I'm getting to spaces and really

00:53:53.780 --> 00:53:55.519
paying attention to how do they structure what

00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:57.099
they're talking about? So on and so forth and

00:53:57.099 --> 00:53:59.800
then practice your craft just like a comedian

00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:02.380
goes to every bargain basement place they can

00:54:02.380 --> 00:54:04.480
get every community center, every retirement

00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:08.000
home, every whatever, right? And they're practicing

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:11.320
their craft, trying to form their type 10. You

00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:12.960
need to do the same in your business. For me,

00:54:13.059 --> 00:54:16.159
as a speaker, it was getting on podcasts. It

00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:18.340
was, I shared with you earlier, I've been on

00:54:18.340 --> 00:54:21.559
more than 130 podcasts worldwide, right? You

00:54:21.559 --> 00:54:24.639
look for every opportunity to speak and you be

00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:27.079
intentional about that. And if you're starting

00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:28.480
a business, by the way, you should be speaking.

00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:36.659
And it doesn't matter what feels safe to write

00:54:36.659 --> 00:54:39.420
to you, whether or not that's getting as part

00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:41.659
of a Toastmasters club so you can get comfortable

00:54:41.659 --> 00:54:46.079
with speaking or you go and join a comedy troupe

00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:48.039
and you're doing improv and you're practicing

00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:50.400
that way or you're just getting in front of people

00:54:50.400 --> 00:54:52.539
if you feel comfortable and getting feedback.

00:54:52.820 --> 00:54:55.260
Always be curious and ask for critical feedback.

00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:57.239
Critical means they're going to tell you what

00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:00.500
you've messed up. Yeah, I know you're gonna say,

00:55:00.739 --> 00:55:05.260
but you gotta know you gotta know right? I've

00:55:05.260 --> 00:55:09.380
never been so PG in my life. Um, you don't I

00:55:09.380 --> 00:55:12.800
try not to curse too much because I'm like, people

00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:15.099
are gonna be like, what is wrong with her? Um,

00:55:15.539 --> 00:55:19.960
but but you know, I, I just practice my craft.

00:55:20.139 --> 00:55:24.760
And I did so recognizing I was gonna mess up.

00:55:24.980 --> 00:55:30.369
And I had to mess up to be good. Yeah. And that's

00:55:30.369 --> 00:55:32.929
it. You have to be willing to mess up to be good.

00:55:34.130 --> 00:55:36.269
And you know what, that's a really good point.

00:55:38.050 --> 00:55:44.110
I think that little capsule will allow someone

00:55:44.110 --> 00:55:46.010
to just continue to move forward in whatever

00:55:46.010 --> 00:55:50.349
it is because the fear may be there, but you're

00:55:50.349 --> 00:55:53.369
gonna mess up anyway, you know? And you might

00:55:53.369 --> 00:55:56.960
as well just take it on and just... Just be the

00:55:56.960 --> 00:56:00.019
best you can be as prepared as you can be gather

00:56:00.019 --> 00:56:02.380
as much information as you can and move forward

00:56:02.380 --> 00:56:04.480
with the information you have, and you're going

00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:07.059
to figure out where your blind spots are. It's

00:56:07.059 --> 00:56:08.500
going to become obvious, it's gonna be super

00:56:08.500 --> 00:56:10.320
obvious at first. And as you go along, it might

00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:12.260
become less obvious, you might have to ask for

00:56:12.260 --> 00:56:16.139
critical feedback, right? I do, I still do all

00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:18.860
the time, because I want to know, right? It doesn't

00:56:18.860 --> 00:56:20.980
mean I have to take it on as gospel, but it's

00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:24.820
helpful information. Right? So like, you know,

00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:26.860
That's the other thing. Don't take it too personally.

00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:29.179
It is super personal, but don't take it too personally.

00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:35.980
Take it as information. It's data. Just flow.

00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:40.480
Just flow. When you started your business, I

00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:42.059
have this question here. When you started your

00:56:42.059 --> 00:56:43.800
business, what steps did you take to ensure it

00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:48.699
was built on strong foundation of ethical leadership

00:56:48.699 --> 00:56:51.940
and community? And I asked a question just so

00:56:51.940 --> 00:56:54.659
that people who are listening and watching that

00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:58.199
they get to get that information and utilize

00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:00.159
it for themselves. My hair's starting to look

00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:07.059
like Jimmy Neutron Boy Genius. So what I did

00:57:07.059 --> 00:57:10.679
was spend two years researching. I looked at

00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:12.559
all kinds of organizations that I was aware of

00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:15.219
that I wasn't aware of. I read the book, Francesca

00:57:15.219 --> 00:57:17.969
Gino wrote the book Rebel Talent. And she mentions

00:57:17.969 --> 00:57:20.630
a lot of organizations inside of that book and

00:57:20.630 --> 00:57:22.869
has a lot of different case studies. And I used

00:57:22.869 --> 00:57:25.889
that as a springing off point to do some digger,

00:57:26.329 --> 00:57:31.449
deeper digging on those organizations and find

00:57:31.449 --> 00:57:33.989
what information I could from them directly.

00:57:34.630 --> 00:57:37.510
A lot of the founders have written books or you

00:57:37.510 --> 00:57:39.989
can see what the people who've worked for them,

00:57:40.030 --> 00:57:41.530
podcasts they've been on, so on and so forth.

00:57:41.650 --> 00:57:42.969
You can get a lot of information. We live in

00:57:42.969 --> 00:57:45.110
the information age. Google it. You know what

00:57:45.110 --> 00:57:47.440
I mean? And you'll find out the good, the bad,

00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:50.039
and the ugly. And I wrote and I spent two years

00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:54.119
when I rebranded my business and wrote my values.

00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:55.840
My values are public. They're on my website.

00:57:56.019 --> 00:57:59.440
You look at them right now. And that's on purpose

00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:02.099
to hold myself accountable for other people to

00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:03.860
be able to hold me accountable and for people

00:58:03.860 --> 00:58:05.980
to know if you're working with me, this is the

00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:10.480
premise we agree on. Right. And that's powerful

00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:15.699
and that's important. And so I did that first

00:58:15.699 --> 00:58:17.900
because I knew that culture starts with one.

00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:22.940
It starts with me, right? I am the business at

00:58:22.940 --> 00:58:25.260
this moment, right? I have people that come in

00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:26.920
and contract with me and support me so on and

00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:29.099
so forth. But I'm the business. I'm the face.

00:58:29.179 --> 00:58:32.139
I'm the voice. I'm the everything. Well, what

00:58:32.139 --> 00:58:34.059
am I trying to bring with me? Because we bring

00:58:34.059 --> 00:58:36.300
culture with us everywhere we go. We bring who

00:58:36.300 --> 00:58:38.960
we are. Our presence comes with us. So what presence

00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:41.500
am I bringing with me? What shows up when I show

00:58:41.500 --> 00:58:44.150
up? Yeah. Ask yourself that question. What shows

00:58:44.150 --> 00:58:45.469
up when you show up? And if you don't know how

00:58:45.469 --> 00:58:47.849
to answer it, ask the people around you and be

00:58:47.849 --> 00:58:49.590
willing to hear some uncomfortable feedback.

00:58:50.610 --> 00:58:54.920
Yeah, that's important. Right? You have to be

00:58:54.920 --> 00:58:56.219
willing to hear that because you're never going

00:58:56.219 --> 00:58:58.099
to be great until you're willing to have that

00:58:58.099 --> 00:59:01.420
feedback. Every, every most famous athlete in

00:59:01.420 --> 00:59:03.360
the world has a hundred thousand coaches around

00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:05.599
them. Like they hire people to coach them and

00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:08.659
support them privately, personally, right? To

00:59:08.659 --> 00:59:10.579
strengthen conditioning coaches. They've got

00:59:10.579 --> 00:59:12.320
people with team, they've got people personally,

00:59:12.440 --> 00:59:14.139
they've got, you know, people who help them with

00:59:14.139 --> 00:59:16.239
their, their, their, the psychology of the game,

00:59:16.460 --> 00:59:20.300
their own psychology, all of it, right? They

00:59:20.300 --> 00:59:23.570
are supported. by a ton of different people who

00:59:23.570 --> 00:59:25.570
are telling them what the flaws in their game

00:59:25.570 --> 00:59:29.289
are. And you need people around you who you trust

00:59:29.289 --> 00:59:32.449
and know to be able to tell you what are the

00:59:32.449 --> 00:59:36.389
flaws in your game so that you can in fact become

00:59:36.389 --> 00:59:40.010
the Michael Jordan of your industry, right? You

00:59:40.010 --> 00:59:42.269
can't be that if you aren't willing to take critical

00:59:42.269 --> 00:59:44.150
feedback. It will never happen. You'll fall flat

00:59:44.150 --> 00:59:46.230
on your face and you'll never get up because

00:59:46.230 --> 00:59:47.349
you're going to fall flat on your face either

00:59:47.349 --> 00:59:51.110
way. Well, one way you get up, the other way

00:59:51.110 --> 00:59:53.070
you're just left there. One way you get up because

00:59:53.070 --> 00:59:55.309
people are there to help pull you up and help

00:59:55.309 --> 00:59:57.809
pick you up and help dust you off and help you

00:59:57.809 --> 00:59:59.650
reorient yourself so you know what direction

00:59:59.650 --> 01:00:01.769
to go, right? There's people who are going to

01:00:01.769 --> 01:00:04.469
show up for you when you most need them. So make

01:00:04.469 --> 01:00:06.070
sure you're networking. Make sure you're spending

01:00:06.070 --> 01:00:08.429
time finding the kind of people who are building

01:00:08.429 --> 01:00:10.610
the kind of organizations, no matter the industry,

01:00:11.469 --> 01:00:15.389
that you want to build yours like. Very good

01:00:15.389 --> 01:00:19.070
information. That's very good. You've shared

01:00:19.070 --> 01:00:23.489
so much from, you know, where you started, you

01:00:23.489 --> 01:00:27.730
know, being in the space you were in, going through

01:00:27.730 --> 01:00:31.949
your life and where you are now. What is your

01:00:31.949 --> 01:00:38.929
testament to who you are today? You know, that's

01:00:38.929 --> 01:00:43.989
a really good question. I didn't give up. And

01:00:43.989 --> 01:00:48.179
that sounds trite, and maybe it is, but I got

01:00:48.179 --> 01:00:51.239
it wrong so many times. I was loud and wrong

01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:55.380
for a very long time. Loud and wrong. Yeah. I

01:00:55.380 --> 01:00:57.599
grew up in a cult, right? I didn't know how much

01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.639
indoctrination existed inside of me. I just knew

01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:03.980
how to argue. I didn't know whether or not, I

01:01:03.980 --> 01:01:05.400
didn't know how to argue from a place of truth

01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:08.739
or accuracy or research, right? And I had to

01:01:08.739 --> 01:01:12.619
teach myself those things, the necessity and

01:01:12.619 --> 01:01:16.579
the importance of truth. and science and on all

01:01:16.579 --> 01:01:19.280
of those things and leaning on experts in the

01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:23.579
field, right? And recognizing that being loud

01:01:23.579 --> 01:01:27.320
and wrong isn't really powerful and you know

01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:29.179
it because you're coming from a place of ego.

01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:33.940
When you are actually no longer looking for external

01:01:33.940 --> 01:01:36.340
validation, you no longer need people to agree

01:01:36.340 --> 01:01:38.820
with your beliefs in order for them to be true

01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:43.139
for you. When you no longer need others' approval,

01:01:43.949 --> 01:01:46.869
in order to decide whether you're doing the right

01:01:46.869 --> 01:01:49.909
thing, and you can sit present with your own

01:01:49.909 --> 01:01:52.030
self and your own reality and your own beliefs,

01:01:52.269 --> 01:01:56.489
and you can know them to be true, then you truly

01:01:56.489 --> 01:01:58.289
become powerful. Because then you can show up

01:01:58.289 --> 01:02:01.230
as yourself, rather than who somebody wants you

01:02:01.230 --> 01:02:09.190
to be. Right? Right? Right. That's important

01:02:09.190 --> 01:02:12.559
right there. showing up as your authentic self

01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:17.820
and not some mirage or pretend person that someone

01:02:17.820 --> 01:02:20.599
thinks you are or who they want you to be. It's

01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:22.860
not about like rebellion. I don't believe rebellion

01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:25.360
is true. No one has authority over me that I

01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:26.920
don't give them. So there's no such thing as

01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:28.559
rebellion. I'm not rebelling against society

01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:30.260
because society doesn't have power over me that

01:02:30.260 --> 01:02:32.440
I don't give it. Well said. Culture doesn't have

01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:34.820
power over me. I don't give it. When you stand

01:02:34.820 --> 01:02:37.019
in your own power, you do not give your power

01:02:37.019 --> 01:02:41.250
away. You stand in it. Right? And when you stand

01:02:41.250 --> 01:02:44.269
in your own power, you cannot be moved. Right?

01:02:45.449 --> 01:02:46.849
It doesn't mean you can't be changed. It doesn't

01:02:46.849 --> 01:02:49.550
mean you don't change and learn. But when you

01:02:49.550 --> 01:02:51.230
are standing in your truth, you cannot be moved

01:02:51.230 --> 01:02:55.250
from that truth. And so it's about and. It's

01:02:55.250 --> 01:02:58.929
about nuance. It's about being powerful inside

01:02:58.929 --> 01:03:01.269
of ourselves and knowing how powerful that is.

01:03:01.389 --> 01:03:04.250
And then you can change the damn world because

01:03:04.250 --> 01:03:10.570
you changed yourself. Coming into your own. Right.

01:03:10.570 --> 01:03:12.989
You can't change anything but yourself, but you

01:03:12.989 --> 01:03:19.469
can change the world as yourself. That's pretty

01:03:19.469 --> 01:03:23.570
great. That's pretty great. That's pretty great.

01:03:25.570 --> 01:03:27.429
What is your talk about your business a little

01:03:27.429 --> 01:03:29.789
bit? What is your business? Whatever. I forgot

01:03:29.789 --> 01:03:32.710
about that something. I am my business. So like

01:03:32.710 --> 01:03:36.800
I just, you know, Um, I consult, I speak, I conduct,

01:03:36.860 --> 01:03:39.219
you know, and I believe in giving people access

01:03:39.219 --> 01:03:42.039
depending on where they are as a, as a solepreneur,

01:03:42.219 --> 01:03:44.019
as a small business owner, so on and so forth.

01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:47.000
So I'm getting ready to add some more dates to

01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:48.980
my virtual workshops that are available through

01:03:48.980 --> 01:03:51.619
my website at a really reasonable price point.

01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:54.420
Um, I don't even remember what it is, but I think

01:03:54.420 --> 01:03:58.760
it's like 65 or 55 or $65 for most of them and

01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:02.260
they're hour long workshops. you know, to give

01:04:02.260 --> 01:04:07.139
people access, right? Because when organizations

01:04:07.139 --> 01:04:09.380
hire me, we're talking thousands, right? So like

01:04:09.380 --> 01:04:11.079
if a sole entrepreneur wants access to the same

01:04:11.079 --> 01:04:13.099
information, I condense it down. We do a virtual

01:04:13.099 --> 01:04:14.980
workshop. I still want people to have access

01:04:14.980 --> 01:04:17.400
to the information. So I have my virtual workshops.

01:04:17.579 --> 01:04:20.139
I have my workshops that I do in person, keynotes

01:04:20.139 --> 01:04:23.199
and consulting. And usually it's kind of like

01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:26.179
people bring me in to do a workshop and then

01:04:26.179 --> 01:04:27.659
they hear what I have to say and they're like,

01:04:27.699 --> 01:04:31.820
so let's work together. And I'm like, let's do

01:04:31.820 --> 01:04:35.090
it. So yeah, you know, there's all different

01:04:35.090 --> 01:04:37.070
price points and I work with nonprofits and so

01:04:37.070 --> 01:04:39.630
on and so forth. So, you know, as much as I would

01:04:39.630 --> 01:04:42.309
love everybody to pay me what I wish they were

01:04:42.309 --> 01:04:45.050
paying me, there's always like, you know, flexibility

01:04:45.050 --> 01:04:48.750
and negotiation that goes on in place. And I

01:04:48.750 --> 01:04:51.090
give this advice because of other entrepreneurs

01:04:51.090 --> 01:04:54.670
here. You don't have to do something for free.

01:04:55.269 --> 01:04:57.309
Someone might not be paying you money, but that

01:04:57.309 --> 01:04:59.409
doesn't mean it doesn't cost them something.

01:04:59.590 --> 01:05:01.929
I'm not talking about sticking it to them. I'm

01:05:01.929 --> 01:05:04.429
talking about the fact that my Anytime somebody

01:05:04.429 --> 01:05:06.869
negotiates their price with me, my price with

01:05:06.869 --> 01:05:09.309
me, number one, I do not offer them anything

01:05:09.309 --> 01:05:13.690
extra because people are going to ask for that.

01:05:13.909 --> 01:05:16.250
Don't do it. I'm looking directly in the camera

01:05:16.250 --> 01:05:19.570
when I say, don't do it. And if somebody's giving

01:05:19.570 --> 01:05:23.030
you those vibes, run. Go the other way. Run.

01:05:23.829 --> 01:05:26.349
They will drag you for everything you're worth

01:05:26.349 --> 01:05:28.690
and you will be dissuaded from, and I get when

01:05:28.690 --> 01:05:30.090
you have to do what you have to do to survive.

01:05:31.329 --> 01:05:35.570
So caveat right but like run Okay, but when it

01:05:35.570 --> 01:05:37.610
comes to people negotiating your price like for

01:05:37.610 --> 01:05:39.510
me as a speaker, okay, you can't afford to pay

01:05:39.510 --> 01:05:42.610
me Well, I'm gonna ask that you share a 500 to

01:05:42.610 --> 01:05:44.489
a thousand word article that I've written both

01:05:44.489 --> 01:05:47.550
internally and with your external listserv That

01:05:47.550 --> 01:05:50.130
means my name and face and my words are getting

01:05:50.130 --> 01:05:52.269
in front of possibly thousands or tens of thousand

01:05:52.269 --> 01:05:54.469
people depending on the size of the organization,

01:05:54.469 --> 01:05:58.489
right then I'm saying, hey, can you give me a

01:05:58.489 --> 01:06:00.590
meaningful introduction within 30 days of me

01:06:00.590 --> 01:06:04.150
speaking? Then I'm asking, you know, can you

01:06:04.150 --> 01:06:06.210
give me a Google review? I'll send you the link,

01:06:06.409 --> 01:06:10.650
right? You know, can you let me record myself,

01:06:10.650 --> 01:06:13.230
right? And be able to use your name in my marketing,

01:06:13.409 --> 01:06:14.710
so on and so forth. There are things that you

01:06:14.710 --> 01:06:16.090
can ask or think about that for yourself. And

01:06:16.090 --> 01:06:17.489
I talked that through with a friend of mine who's

01:06:17.489 --> 01:06:19.769
an entrepreneur and a speaker. And she and I

01:06:19.769 --> 01:06:21.250
came up, you know, she told me about three of

01:06:21.250 --> 01:06:23.190
those things and I added the whole article thing.

01:06:23.759 --> 01:06:28.019
Right? So have conversations with other people.

01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:31.219
Figure out how you can get, take advantage of

01:06:31.219 --> 01:06:35.219
marketing with piggybacking on their marketing

01:06:35.219 --> 01:06:36.739
efforts that already exist. You're going to do

01:06:36.739 --> 01:06:39.179
the work for them and don't write the article

01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:43.260
with flipping chat GPT. Don't do that. You have

01:06:43.260 --> 01:06:45.980
to write it. It has to be from your voice because

01:06:45.980 --> 01:06:48.159
it's your voice that people are buying, not anything

01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:51.519
else. I've never written a single thing with

01:06:51.519 --> 01:06:55.250
chat GPT ever. Don't even let it edit my stuff

01:06:55.250 --> 01:06:57.849
because I'm just like horrified by whatever the

01:06:57.849 --> 01:07:00.690
hell it does. It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't

01:07:00.690 --> 01:07:03.809
seem to help at all. Grammarly, yes. Chachi BT,

01:07:03.949 --> 01:07:09.789
no. So you can do things that bring value to

01:07:09.789 --> 01:07:12.289
you that won't cost the organization anything.

01:07:12.409 --> 01:07:15.289
So don't ever do anything quote unquote for free.

01:07:16.260 --> 01:07:18.920
Make sure they're contributing and bringing value

01:07:18.920 --> 01:07:21.719
to that exchange. It's an energy exchange. Make

01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:23.880
sure it is an actual exchange. Otherwise, you

01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:29.099
will die on the vine. Especially those free things,

01:07:29.139 --> 01:07:32.179
you can really take advantage of them. I spoke

01:07:32.179 --> 01:07:36.840
at an event last year. I still do free things.

01:07:37.380 --> 01:07:39.500
I got three paid speaking engagements from it.

01:07:39.860 --> 01:07:42.960
I didn't even have to approach them. They didn't

01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:44.599
even approach me after I spoke. They reached

01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:47.320
out to me. They emailed me. And within six months,

01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:48.920
I had three other paid speaking engagements.

01:07:49.940 --> 01:07:53.900
So make sure if you're doing free things, doing

01:07:53.900 --> 01:07:56.079
them with people who value you and who want to

01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:59.260
see you succeed and who are 100 % in on doing

01:07:59.260 --> 01:08:02.619
whatever they can to help you succeed. Okay,

01:08:02.619 --> 01:08:06.940
that's really good. I was going to ask you our

01:08:06.940 --> 01:08:10.679
last question. I'll try to answer really short.

01:08:10.750 --> 01:08:14.110
You know, it's okay, because I think it's, you

01:08:14.110 --> 01:08:16.489
know, it's fine. It's fine. We normally get,

01:08:16.489 --> 01:08:18.170
you know, we give it an hour and a half for,

01:08:18.170 --> 01:08:23.250
you know, the conversation. But I think you really

01:08:23.250 --> 01:08:29.850
answered the question. So I don't even have to

01:08:29.850 --> 01:08:32.630
ask anymore. Because you pretty much answered

01:08:32.630 --> 01:08:40.149
the question. I'll ask this then. What's one

01:08:41.260 --> 01:08:46.840
big thing or story or anything that you have

01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:50.100
on your heart that you would like to share with

01:08:50.100 --> 01:08:56.739
somebody who's listening. We're in a time when

01:08:56.739 --> 01:09:02.060
people are not grounded. People feel ungrounded,

01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:06.359
unanchored. And there are people who are taking

01:09:06.359 --> 01:09:10.699
advantage of that and who are taking advantage

01:09:10.699 --> 01:09:15.260
of your exhaustion. Anytime somebody is presenting

01:09:15.260 --> 01:09:19.220
something to you that requires you to dehumanize

01:09:19.220 --> 01:09:23.880
or think less of someone else, you should be

01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:26.039
rejecting that ideology immediately and getting

01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:30.140
curious. And I want you then to imagine a world

01:09:30.140 --> 01:09:34.789
where I need us to spend time imagining. what

01:09:34.789 --> 01:09:36.890
we want the world to look like. And activists

01:09:36.890 --> 01:09:39.649
will ask us to do this. Imagine it as if you

01:09:39.649 --> 01:09:42.590
have no idea who you will be in that world. Rich,

01:09:42.770 --> 01:09:46.489
poor, white, black, brown, indigenous, part of

01:09:46.489 --> 01:09:51.750
the LGBTQ community, whatever it is. Imagine

01:09:51.750 --> 01:09:55.590
you had no say in who you are and spend time

01:09:55.590 --> 01:09:58.449
caring about what that looks like and intentionally

01:09:58.449 --> 01:10:00.090
imagining that because we can't build what we

01:10:00.090 --> 01:10:04.069
can't imagine. Right? And if you need resources

01:10:04.069 --> 01:10:06.189
and you want articles that help you to imagine

01:10:06.189 --> 01:10:08.909
that world, or so on and so forth, I recommend

01:10:08.909 --> 01:10:11.529
you read two books, What If We Get It Right by

01:10:11.529 --> 01:10:13.470
Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson, and you read The Some

01:10:13.470 --> 01:10:16.010
of Us by Heather McGee. And then you look at

01:10:16.010 --> 01:10:18.729
scholarly work that focuses on intersectionality,

01:10:19.090 --> 01:10:21.449
on Kimberle Crenshaw's concept of intersectionality,

01:10:22.149 --> 01:10:24.170
because we as human beings are never just one

01:10:24.170 --> 01:10:26.630
thing. And anytime somebody is trying to reduce

01:10:26.630 --> 01:10:28.930
us to one thing or invalidate someone's lived

01:10:28.930 --> 01:10:32.939
experience, for example, There's a conversation

01:10:32.939 --> 01:10:35.140
around what it is to be trans and that it's not

01:10:35.140 --> 01:10:39.100
real. But if you Google it, there's not just

01:10:39.100 --> 01:10:44.640
XX and XY as humans, right? It's XXY and XYY

01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:47.979
and XO. There's 2 % of the population, same as

01:10:47.979 --> 01:10:50.760
our redheads, that are intersex, neither biologically

01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:53.000
male or female. There's an entire group of people

01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:54.739
in the Dominican Republic and in South America

01:10:54.739 --> 01:10:58.100
called Cuevidoses and are born with female presenting

01:10:58.100 --> 01:11:00.039
genitalia and then at puberty, their genitalia

01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:03.970
changes. There is an entire biological reality

01:11:03.970 --> 01:11:07.369
that we are unaware of and people take advantage

01:11:07.369 --> 01:11:10.430
of that in order to invalidate the existence

01:11:10.430 --> 01:11:13.869
of other human beings. And anytime we buy into

01:11:13.869 --> 01:11:17.449
that, the harm, the othering of someone else,

01:11:17.810 --> 01:11:20.729
the invalidation of someone else, we are harming

01:11:20.729 --> 01:11:22.869
ourselves as well, whether we realize it or not.

01:11:23.210 --> 01:11:24.789
And Heather McGee points that out very clearly

01:11:24.789 --> 01:11:27.409
in The Sum of Us. It brings hard numbers to the

01:11:27.409 --> 01:11:29.489
conversation about what racism costs us as a

01:11:29.489 --> 01:11:33.279
nation. And I think we need to be focused on

01:11:33.279 --> 01:11:35.140
that. And Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson, she interviews

01:11:35.140 --> 01:11:38.560
everyone from community activists to astrophysicists

01:11:38.560 --> 01:11:41.680
to farmers and journalists on what we can and

01:11:41.680 --> 01:11:43.439
could be doing, what we're already doing in small

01:11:43.439 --> 01:11:46.140
ways, but could be applied more broadly that

01:11:46.140 --> 01:11:47.899
would stop and reverse global warming. And we'd

01:11:47.899 --> 01:11:51.239
be able to do it in a profitable way. It is actually

01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:55.100
profitable, more profitable than big oil. Right?

01:11:55.319 --> 01:11:57.180
And so I need us to lean into these things and

01:11:57.180 --> 01:12:00.010
get curious. because it quite literally will

01:12:00.010 --> 01:12:07.470
be what saves us. Curiosity, not, not loud mediocrity.

01:12:08.189 --> 01:12:10.630
We have to be, we have to be curious and we have

01:12:10.630 --> 01:12:12.229
to be respectful and we have to be accountable.

01:12:12.770 --> 01:12:16.649
I'm begging us. Like from the bottom of my heart,

01:12:16.770 --> 01:12:20.850
it will change your life. It changed mine. Well

01:12:20.850 --> 01:12:26.920
said. Um, we'll leave it there. Shannon, how

01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:31.539
does how does how do we get in touch with you?

01:12:31.859 --> 01:12:33.239
Good question. I'm sure it'll be tagged in the

01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:37.079
show notes. But you can reach me at www dot consonant

01:12:37.079 --> 01:12:41.460
dot world. That's key dot world not calm. You're

01:12:41.460 --> 01:12:43.380
going to be tempted to be like dot world .com.

01:12:43.640 --> 01:12:49.869
That's not real. Just that world. Consonate .world.

01:12:51.390 --> 01:12:53.789
And my contact information is there. There's

01:12:53.789 --> 01:12:56.489
some videos on what I mean by curiosity, respect,

01:12:56.529 --> 01:12:59.529
and accountability. There's my company values.

01:12:59.670 --> 01:13:02.350
My personal values are there. The story about

01:13:02.350 --> 01:13:04.449
how I found the name of Consonate, which I think

01:13:04.449 --> 01:13:06.689
is interesting, so on and so forth. There's lots

01:13:06.689 --> 01:13:09.109
of information there, my speaker sheet. So everything

01:13:09.109 --> 01:13:11.659
you need is there. It's right there. Oh, articles

01:13:11.659 --> 01:13:14.220
I've written, podcasts I've been on. Okay. And

01:13:14.220 --> 01:13:17.340
it's all there. It's all there. It's been a tremendous

01:13:17.340 --> 01:13:21.300
conversation with you. Very enlightening and

01:13:21.300 --> 01:13:25.539
enriching to not only to the mind, but also to

01:13:25.539 --> 01:13:29.939
the soul. So I just want to say thank you. Thanks

01:13:29.939 --> 01:13:33.079
for having me. This was great. This was great.

01:13:33.979 --> 01:13:36.279
I love when I have these great conversations.

01:13:36.619 --> 01:13:39.739
It's so fulfilling and wonderful. So thank you

01:13:39.739 --> 01:13:43.439
for being here, being who you are, not only for

01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:45.260
yourself and your community, but for the world.

01:13:45.579 --> 01:13:49.060
And it does make a difference. So thank you.

01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:52.880
And the question of the day to all you listeners

01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:55.100
and watchers, to all the entrepreneurs out there,

01:13:55.659 --> 01:13:59.409
what is the most important quality you think

01:13:59.409 --> 01:14:02.710
a leader should have to build a thriving community.

01:14:03.250 --> 01:14:05.270
Go ahead and drop those thoughts in the comments

01:14:05.270 --> 01:14:08.529
below. And as we always say, let's make thriving

01:14:08.529 --> 01:14:11.750
our new normal. And we'll see you next time.

01:14:12.430 --> 01:14:14.329
Before you go, I just want to say thank you.

01:14:14.449 --> 01:14:16.090
Thank you for being a part of the Thrive Bull

01:14:16.090 --> 01:14:18.770
journey. Every time you show up here, you're

01:14:18.770 --> 01:14:21.909
choosing growth, clarity, and the deeper work

01:14:21.909 --> 01:14:24.350
of becoming who you're meant to be in this world.

01:14:24.369 --> 01:14:27.189
And if you're ready to reconnect with what truly

01:14:27.189 --> 01:14:29.880
lights you up, I created something powerful that

01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:32.920
can help you. It's called the Empowered Path.

01:14:33.039 --> 01:14:35.619
Seven days to reclaim your purpose and passion.

01:14:36.140 --> 01:14:38.899
It's a beautifully designed guided workbook that

01:14:38.899 --> 01:14:40.979
walks you through a week of powerful prompts,

01:14:41.539 --> 01:14:44.960
clarity building tools, and real mindset shifts.

01:14:45.140 --> 01:14:48.060
Now you can get instant access to it today. It's

01:14:48.060 --> 01:14:51.239
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01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:55.000
your clarity, your alignment. And if you want

01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:57.659
to take it deeper, check this out. I'm offering

01:14:57.659 --> 01:15:00.819
a limited number of free 30 minute purpose coaching

01:15:00.819 --> 01:15:03.680
sessions. No pressure, no pitch, just space for

01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:06.420
you to reconnect with your direction, your gifts,

01:15:06.460 --> 01:15:09.300
and what's next. So you can grab the guide and

01:15:09.300 --> 01:15:11.760
book your session at the link in the show notes.

01:15:12.399 --> 01:15:15.039
Let's not just go through the motions. Let's

01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:18.340
really walk this path on purpose. I appreciate

01:15:18.340 --> 01:15:21.119
you. And like we always say, let's make thriving

01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:23.460
our new normal. And I'll talk to you soon.