and so I saw her all the time and one weekend
I went down to visit her and you know I was a
teenager I think I was like 19 or 20 and this
is now like 1990 or so and she wasn't herself
she was like grouchy and irritable and not the
fun grandma I knew And I talked to somebody at
her independent living facility and said, what's
wrong? She's not herself. And they said, oh,
don't worry. We'll fix her. And a lot of people
who are younger think it has to just be me. I
better have all of this or I'm not going to be
successful. We all know somebody. Truly. No one
hangs out with people that are completely without
a superpower. Everyone has some kind of a superpower.
So if you look, you're really and truly not gonna
have to look far, but we all think we're alone.
It's kind of how we're all built to think, well,
nobody's gonna know, nobody's gonna be able to
help me. And then as soon as people open their
mouth and they say, hey, I'm doing this, do you
know anything? You're gonna find within three
people that there's somebody who's gonna either
know or know somebody who does. The real cool
thing is that one man, he changed the lives of
individual students. He changed the lives of
a community and now he's bridging students between,
he's gonna start bridging the students between
Brooklyn and Tanzania. And he's gonna be changing
the world, one man. And so that's really what
the power of mentorship is, that you can make
a bigger impact than you could ever even realize.
She's changing the way we think about legacy.
Dr. Deborah Heiser joins the Thrive World journey
to reveal how mentorship shapes purpose at every
age. Hey family, this is The Thriveware Journey.
Look, life's too short to just get by. And 2025
is the year to persist. We're here to grow, build,
and thrive. This podcast is all about powerful
stories, real talk, and practical steps to help
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And if you're watching on YouTube, you know what
to do. Hit that like button, subscribe, and turn
on those notifications so you never miss an episode.
And as we always say, let's make thriving our
new norm. Hey, today we're talking with Dr. Deborah
Heiser. She's an applied developmental psychologist,
TEDx speaker, author, and the founder of The
Mentor Project, where she's helping people tap
into the power of mentorship. Her expertise in
aging, psychology, and leadership has been featured
in the New York Times, Thrive Global, and more.
Dr. Heiser is here to share why mentorship is
a game changer, how we can continue to grow.
with and reinvent ourselves at any age and what
entrepreneurs need to thrive in today's world.
So let's get right into it. And we talked a little
bit earlier, but how are you doing today, Deborah?
I'm doing really well. And I'm really excited
to be on your show. I am excited for you to be
here because there's a lot of stuff. that we
could talk about, especially with our audience
and me personally want to know a lot of good
stuff about aging. But as we get into it, I said
a mouthful in the beginning, right? Applied developmental
psychology. What is that? So most people think
of a psychologist as a clinical psychologist,
someone who's only focused on pathology, all
the bad things that can happen in our lives emotionally.
And I look at all of the good things. So just
like a developmental psychologist would look
at a child walking and talking and learning all
of those milestones, I look at everything we
can expect through our entire lifespan. And the
applied part means I don't just do research,
I work with individuals as well. Okay. Okay,
that makes sense. So what inspired you to do
that? Well, I I loved my grandmother like nobody's
business and she was like the coolest lady ever
and I would go down all the time in the 1980s
to visit her. And florida from new york there
is this really cheap airline called people's
air and i get on that airline and flight out
of visitor and was like practically free and
so i saw her all the time and one weekend i went
down to visit her and. You know, I was a teenager,
I think I was like 19 or 20, and this is now
like 1990 or so and she wasn't herself. She was
like grouchy and irritable and not the fun grandma
I knew. And I talked to somebody at her independent
living facility and said, what's wrong? Like
she's not herself. And they said, oh, don't worry,
we'll fix her. And I was like, what? And so the
next time I came back, she was herself. I mean,
she was back to being the fun grandma that wore
the cute clothes that everybody wanted to be
around. And I said to myself, I want to fix grandma's.
And so I switched my major in college and moved
from doing what I was doing. and decided to pursue
psychology, and I really wanted to go into aging.
And at that time, it was like the Wild West.
There was nobody doing that. And so I pursued
it after that, looking for anybody who'd take
me in a program that would allow me to look at
aging in New York. And so my journey really started
from my grandmother. I never looked back. I then
started to research anything to do with aging,
which at that time was everything no one wanted
to have or get. I thought studying aging meant
studying depression and studying frailty and
Alzheimer's disease and all of those things.
And one night I went to a dinner and was like
all excited to tell this person you know, this
whole group all about myself and all the cool
work I was doing. And I told everybody what I
did and the room went flat. Like nobody was like,
Oh, you go. Yay. Completely the opposite. Somebody
said, Oh, um, so what do we have to look forward
to? Is that it? Is that what our life is? And
it was like, I came to a screeching halt and
I said, oh my gosh, I have to pivot. And that's
when I looked at back at the research and found
out there's so much that we have to look forward
to. It just wasn't making it in the media at
the time. And so I pivoted and started to look
at what we can look forward to. And so my journey
was one of, you know, winding paths and nothing
was straight, a straight line. And it's still
moving along the way as I continue in my career.
Yeah. Well, first of all, grandparents are the
other thing that the bees knees there. And they're
the best they are, you know, just as you were
talking about your grandmother took me back,
you know, thinking about my grandmother and just
how invested she was in my life and making sure
that you know, I had things all the time that
would support me in my journey and in my sports
and everything like that. And And she was a great,
great, great woman. And so I could see how that
could, you know, shift you and your mindset to
doing something that would support support grandmothers.
So since we're talking about aging, and we're
here, just kind of, I just have a question about
aging and entrepreneurship. And I guess we'll
just stick around this for a little bit. How
does how does aging and entrepreneurship intersect?
And is there an ideal way to shift when you're
like, say, in your 40s from, you know, just say,
like, you want to make a transition in your life,
you know, what can you just kind of expound?
Yeah. Well, entrepreneurship, you know, is something
that it There's something so amazing about it.
We all have questions. Oh, I'd like to see where
this goes. I'd like to try this. I think it could
work. And when we're young, we have that real
desire to do that because we feel like we have
a safety net oftentimes. Like, oh, if I fail,
I can go live in mom's basement or something
like that, you know? Right. That exists. But
then there's a big chunk of time when we don't
have that. And that's when we might be starting
families and we might have, you know, bills that
we have to pay and things like that. And then
we kind of, it's harder to do that. Once we hit,
you know, midlife and beyond, that's when you
see people really flourish and they really want
to engage in entrepreneurship. And that's because
they've made their nice big fat connection book,
you know, the Rolodex, they know who they know,
they've accumulated expertise in something. And
those questions that we have that start when
we're babies, you know, when we're like, why,
why, how those never go away. So we're always
little entrepreneurs. We just have the bandwidth
and the money and the expertise and the Rolodex
to do it when we're midlife and older. So you'll
see people really expanding and trying new things
in midlife. The same way, you know, when we're
younger and we're just starting out, we feel
like we have a safety net. And that's really
an exciting thing. People should say, oh, good.
When I hit midlife, if I'm kind of feeling stuck
and I'm in my job and I've got to do it. Well,
as soon as that burden lightens up a little,
you'll be able to go and do all the entrepreneurship
you've ever wanted to do. Yeah. Well, I'm also
looking at like, it's never too late. Oh, right.
Never too late is, you know, I was, I remember
about a decade ago, I was looking at some of
the research and the top entrepreneurs were people
60 and older. And you know, that's started to
change a little bit, younger people are getting
more in the game, but People who are 60 and older
are still amazing entrepreneurs and starting
it for this first time. Oftentimes you'll see
somebody getting into the game. It is never too
late. And the cool thing is that you'll see now
people of all generations working together. It
used to be much smaller. You know, it'd be like
two young people in a garage working together
where you'd see, you know, an older person starting
something kind of as a solopreneur. But you see
a lot of people that are pairing up because of
the tech gap, you know, so you'll see somebody
with tech expertise, but without the big Rolodex,
or maybe the expertise in another area, or the
funds to start something. So you'll see intergenerational
work happening much more frequently now. So it's
really, I mean, right now, if you want to go
into entrepreneurship, it's a great time to go
into it. Yeah, and entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship
is so big now, like, I think when I was in the
90s, right when I was going to college, you know,
entrepreneurship was like, you know, go get a
restaurant or you know, it was just, you know,
brick and mortar kind of thing. But then now
you have so much around technology and, and the
way that entrepreneurship has expanded. It's
really good for the people. I don't know if you
believe in capitalism or not. But on this podcast,
we do and we talk about it. And there's, you
know, the midlife when you were talking about
how can midlife entrepreneurs leverage their
experience around just being successful in business?
Look, I'll tell my own story even about it. I
was I had an idea. When we were founding the
mentor project, it was a bunch of us. We were
batting around ideas. I knew that mentorship
was really an interesting thing and wanted to
learn more about it. But what happens with midlifers
is what makes it easier is they tend to come
together around an idea and they talk about it
and they really dissect it and people will come
with their different ideas and give a lot of
input. And I had that. There were about seven
of us that were talking at the time. It wasn't
just me and a lot of people who are younger think
it has to just be me. I better have all of this
or I'm not going to be successful. Well, when
we were setting up the mentor project, and this
is very common for mid lifers entering into an
entrepreneurship is that they'll talk with other
people about it. And when we did that, it meant
that we were able to get rid of some of the really
bad ideas right off the bat. And there were people
that said, here's how you form the LLC. Here's
what you do for this. Well, let's talk about
this. Oh, you make sure you have insurance. We
were covered with all the things that we wouldn't
have known to do if it was just me. If it was
just me, the thing would have tanked like five
minutes into it. But because there were a lot
of people around giving input that were involved
as founders in the very beginning. That's how
it works. So midlifers are good at that. They're
good at saying, I'm not going to do it alone.
Why should I do it alone? Right. And that makes
it so that it does generally work much more quickly
and better. Well, I can attest to that. I was,
you know, even though I'm very extroverted, I
guess, ambivert, I guess I go, you know, introvert,
extrovert, whatever. I learned that word this
year. I, in my younger years, I was, you know,
very much lone wolf, you know, and as I'm getting
older, first of all, I don't want to do everything.
And it's like, well, we need to do marketing
over here. I mean, maybe I know some knowledge
about it. Maybe I did take a class in my university
about it. But you know, I don't know enough.
Let me see if I can hire somebody to do it. And
I think just having the experience of life by
itself, Just leads me into just better choices.
So that I don't have to be bogged down by the
everyday day to day kind of things, which helps
entrepreneurship period. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Well,
you know, also, I was a few episodes ago, I have
a good friend of mine, Tony Powell. She's, she's,
you know, we're talking about real estate and
things like that. But she got a mentor. early
in her career, when she made this when she made
a shift. And you talk you talked about project
mentor, and we might as well just go ahead and
talk a little bit about that. First of all, do
you believe mentorship is essential for we're
talking to our aspiring entrepreneurs now, for
aspiring entrepreneurs and business, business
owners? And how does one get in contact with
mentors for them? It's it's essential it's really
not going to work if you don't have one i'm going
to give you an example of how a lot of the big
ideas if you talk about anything in tech they've
had mentors if you talk about. I've never met
anybody who's an entrepreneur that didn't have
mentors, but most of them are lateral mentors.
And this is a type of mentorship that most people
disregard. They don't realize that it's mentorship.
They don't know it's there. And then they don't
engage in it as much as they should or could.
So basically, if you want to think back to say,
I'll give you an example. There's this guy, Steve,
and he is at work. And he is given a task by
his boss. Now this is a startup. He's given a
task by his boss. Do this thing. We need it done
in three weeks. Hurry it up. Can you do it? Steve
says, sure. He couldn't, but he didn't tell his
boss he couldn't because he wanted to keep his
job. Like how many of us have ever been there?
So he's doing as much as he can. And the boss
is coming in every day and he's like, Steve,
where's the work? Come on. Can you do it? Our
whole company is hinging on this. So Steve says,
okay, I've gotten as far as I can. So he calls
his friend Steve. He goes, Steve, I have a problem.
I have gotten as far as I can. I don't know the
same kind of engineering you do. Can you walk
me through this and teach me what you know? Steve
says, sure buddy, I'll come over after work.
He goes over to his work and at night he helps
him. And the next morning the boss comes in and
he says, wow, I can't believe all this work you
got done. And Steve said, I told you I had it.
And then it was like Rumpelstiltskin at night.
Steve would come in and help Steve. And they
got the work done in two weeks instead of three.
Even though it was an impossibly short amount
of time, they got it done like a week early.
And the bus was like, what a miracle. No one
knew Steve was coming in at night and helping.
Steve was just like, yeah, I told you I had it.
I knew it all along. So this worked. It happened
for the startup. And the mentor was Steve Wozniak,
who was coming into Steve Jobs' job at Atari.
The boss was Al Alcorn, who's known as the grandfather
of video games. And the project they were working
on was Breakout, the first video game for Atari.
So that would have never happened if that lateral
mentor, Steve Wozniak, who was not Steve Jobs'
boss, he was his friend. He was like, my friend
needs my help. I'm going to go help him. That's
how entrepreneurs work. They call in people they
know and say, oh my gosh, can you help me? It's
critical. And who doesn't say yes? You know,
most everyone says, yes, I want to help this
person I know. Those are our mentors. They're
lateral mentors. I could give you a hundred examples
of how this looks in entrepreneurship and in
tech. And what happens is we all have like a...
a little virtual Rolodex all around us of all
the people that we know. And when we're stumped
with something, it's in aid in us, we reach out
to somebody to help us. And we as people like
to help our friends and other people that we
know, we don't charge them, we don't say, give
me an award, or give me a title. So nobody ever
says that's my mentor. But a mentor is someone
who is is innately wanting to give back without
any real recognition or award or money or things
like that. They feel meaningfully connected to
the person. They trust them and they have some
kind of a goal. This is how mentorship works
and we always think of it as hierarchical. But
everyone out there who wants to form some kind
of a company and start out as an entrepreneur
should really and truly look to their left and
to their right. Because there's somebody there
who's going to be able to tell them something
that's going to shorten their journey to get
where they want to go or who's going to add some
little sparkle to it and make it actually better
than it was. Yeah. Well, first of all, you were
telling a story and you mentioned Steve, then
you mentioned Steve. I was like, wait a minute.
Is that the same person? I did that on purpose
because if I say the name people tune out and
they're like la la la la la I already know all
about Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. Right, right.
Well, when you had said I was like, Steve was
Steven, but I was really into the story. So but
I got it. But I got it, you know, when you when
you finally finally say it Steve Jobs, Steve
Wozniak. That's so funny. So when for any I aspire
an entrepreneur, any entrepreneur that's even
in their in their field already, but they may
need some kind of support is what you're saying
is just look around you look, you know, just
to somebody that's really in your friend group.
They may that may have that kind of information
that will help you shorten your your journey.
We all know somebody. Truly, we no one hangs
out with people that are completely you know,
without a superpower, everyone has some kind
of a superpower. So if you look, you don't you're
really and truly not gonna have to look far.
But we all think we're alone. It's it's kind
of how we're all built to think, well, nobody's
gonna know nobody's gonna be able to help me.
And then as soon as people open their mouth,
and they say, Hey, I'm doing this, do you know
anything, you're gonna find within three people
that there's somebody who's gonna either know
or know somebody who does. What do you say to
the people that are scared? to find or speak
up or look for a mentor. I would say to them,
don't put the pressure on it. Don't most people
think you have to go to somebody and say, hey,
do you want to be my mentor? And that's weird.
So yeah, you should be afraid of that. That's
like walking up to somebody and saying, hey,
you want to be my friend? Someone's going to
be like, you're a weirdo. So we think of it in
that way that makes us feel scared to do that.
But no one is scared to say, can I have some
advice? Do you mind? Can I pick your brain for
a minute? That feels normal. And that is normal.
And who doesn't like to say, wow, they think
I'm an expert. It makes everybody feel good.
So if you just approach things in that way, that
fear will dissipate really quickly. Yeah. What
do you say about entrepreneurs and business owners
being mentors themselves? maybe people that in
their organization. Oh, it happens all the time.
I mean, just like I was talking about with Steve
and Steve, Steve Wozniak didn't know he was a
mentor. He was a friend to his friend. Right.
So we often think that that's what we are. Oh,
that's my colleague. Or, oh, that's somebody
that I know at work. I'm just helping somebody
out. So I would guarantee you that you are a
mentor and you just didn't realize it. because
I'm sure that you have helped somebody out along
the way. And within companies, we're all lateral
mentoring all the time. You know, I'll give you
an example. If you are a doctor, it doesn't look
very good for you to say, I have no idea what
I'm going to be doing in the surgery coming up
in an hour. That's not going to work out well
for you. That's a very hierarchical environment.
If you go to a hospital, there's a lot of hierarchy.
Everybody goes by title and, you know, the outfits
that they wear and who's wearing the stethoscope
over there, you know, white jacket. So how do
you take that away? Well, what you do is you
and you bring in lateral mentoring. That's where
they have, you know, a curbside consultancy.
Hey, what did you do when you had that case that,
you know, you were dealing with that knee replacement
or whatever it was? And that isn't you divulging
a vulnerability that you have. That's you saying,
I would like to hear how you do things. So what
I always say is that for entrepreneurs, you are,
you have been a mentor to somebody who has asked
you a question like that. And you should also
keep on asking those questions and being a mentee.
We should look at mentorship is constantly and
continuous and engage with as many people as
possible. It's an information exchange. It's
a knowledge transfer. And if you think of it
that way, you're just going to really be much
better at it and much more tuned in to looking
at people and saying, oh, I see they could use
my help. I will offer some. I'll say, hey, I
know about this. Can I give you a hand? Or you
will say, can I ask advice? It'll just get you
plugged in much, much more quickly. Yeah, you
as you're explaining, I have a friend who is
a very smart person. But there, there's a lot
of things that they don't know about business,
right? And I don't know about their business,
you know what I mean? So I mean, I'm not the
person for them to go to. How do you how how
does how do you how does one in like just get
engaged with a mentor, and keep engagement with
that mentor. I'm thinking about myself, right?
Like, I might feel like I know at all, but I'll
and I'll be scared to go to a person that may
know more than me in a certain field. But how
do I stay engaged with the person, especially
if they're busy and things like that? That's
another thing. People think that it's like an
arranged marriage for life. So that's very intimidating.
Like I better be engaged with this mentor or
mentee forever. And you don't have to. So I'll
give you an example. Like I was finishing graduate
school and we had to do an externship. And what
an externship is, is you have to go and do work
for free for somebody. And what you're hoping
for is that they'll give you an amazing recommendation
and all of that stuff. So you want to go in there
and wow, these people. And you've never done
anything. So you're like completely new to everything.
So I was sitting at my externship and it was
like the olden days. So the cell phones cost
like $10 if somebody called you on it back then.
And so my fellow classmate called me and I was
like, Oh my gosh, someone's calling on my cell
phone. This must be important. And she's like
whisper talking. She's like, Hey, can you tell
me how to do Kappa? Um, statistics, I know you
know them and I wasn't listening and I don't
know them and I have this thing I have to do
and they're going to find out I'm a fraud and
whatever. Yeah. And I'm like, all right, I'll
walk you through it. So I sat there and walked
her through it. I was done. That was it. I mentored
her in that moment. That was lateral mentoring.
She needed one thing. The goal was get her through
that minute, teach her this thing. That was a
knowledge transfer from me to her. She holds
that knowledge. It never went away. And she finished
her project and boom, out she goes. Now we remained
friends and whatever, but that was all she needed.
We often think that mentorship has to be a continuous
knowledge transfer for the rest of our lives
with this person. And that's a burden on somebody
who thinks of themselves as a mentor. I was done,
I did my job. I was like, oh, look at me. And
do you know, I asked her seven million times
to do that for me. But it was, you can do something
when you're mentoring, you can say, my goal has
been reached. So if you know what that goal is,
it could be, I need the lay of the land for this.
I'm starting a company. What does the landscape
of this area look like? I know that you know
this. Can you tell me? We're good to go now.
Thank you. Goal is reached. It doesn't have to
be now come along and continue. That makes both
people feel awkward. So you could have that mentor
that stays with you for decades and that goal
is an ever -changing goal. As you reach one,
you get another. But most of our mentors are
one -offs, two -offs, you know, or they come
in and out as we need them. And that power can
be that that's the person that makes something
happen for them and their career goes, goes all
the way in a new direction, or it could be that
somebody is just doing something that is important
at that moment. So mentorship, again, does not
have to be an arranged marriage for life. Mentorship
for a season. Yeah, mentorship for a minute for
not even a whole season. You talked about use
the word fraud. And the thought came to me was
imposter syndrome. Oh, yeah. How does how does
an aspiring entrepreneur entrepreneur whoever
really get rid of that mental thought or mental
barrier that they're an imposter? People struggle
with imposter syndrome all the time. I've been
around a few Nobel Prize winners who felt like
imposter syndrome in different places. When we're
in a new place, we feel like the imposter, like
I'm around all these experts. There's nobody
who's an expert in literally everything. So when
you step into something new, which every entrepreneur
is doing, this is something new to me. You're
going to feel like, uh -oh. I'm in a new area
and that can give you that imposter syndrome.
The best thing around that is align yourself
with and get the advice from somebody who you
think is that expert, because that's going to
alleviate your imposter syndrome. Here on The
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Of course, of course, always, always, always
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toward thriving. Right. Getting around like -minded
people, you would say? Yeah. Um, or different
minded, because, you know, when I was thinking
about the mentor project, I didn't want somebody
who thought like me, I thought I was a total
imposter stepping in this new field. I didn't
want to align myself with another imposter. I
wanted to go to the people that knew what they
were doing. Yeah, yeah. You talked about the
mentor project. What is the mentor project? And
can you share like a story or success story from
the mentor project? Sure so it really started
organically i was looking at when i was making
that pivot from looking at. Everything bad that
we don't want to have her get when we get older
one of the life stages that i was looking at
that is something we look forward to is this
life stage called generativity it's in midlife
and it's where we're built to want to give back.
We want to help others. We want to, um, we care
for others without expecting anything in return.
And we do this through mentoring, volunteering,
and philanthropy. And I was curious about mentorship
because it's giving a piece of us to somebody
else. Whereas, you know, you could volunteer
and be a docent at the zoo, but that may not
be your, a piece of you necessarily. And not
all of us can put our name on a building. So
I was like, everyone can be a mentor. So when
I was talking about it with people and asking,
I was curious about the mentors, like what drives
people to want to give back. And I was talking
to everybody across the board. And one of the
people that I was talking to said, I really have
a hard time finding mentees. And then another
person said, I have a hard time finding mentees.
These are people that did world changing things.
Like one of the fathers of the firewall. You
know, people were saying, I feel irrelevant.
I don't feel validated unless I'm able to give
back a piece of myself to someone who wants my
knowledge. It's like, what? Are you kidding?
These people that people would pay tons of money
to meet with can't find a mentee? So then, you
know, people were saying, I'm retiring, I'm not
going to be around others. So when we started
the mentor project, it was really to get some
of these people in front of kids to give back
for free. So we just started and we thought nothing
was going to come of it. It was going to be like
a really fun hobby to get people in front of
kids. and make a difference. For me, it was like
an anthropological expedition. And so when we
started it, it was like seven of us. And then
people said, nobody else who's really a high
level individual is gonna volunteer to be a mentor.
They're too busy, they're too important. And
I was like, okay, that's fine. But within six
months, we went from 10 to 60, then to 80, then
to 100 with people saying, I need to mentor,
I wanna mentor, I wanna do it. Wow, they're doing
that, I wanna do that too. And then we had to
put up a waiting list because there were so many
high like top 1 % in their fields like we have
an astronaut. We have 7 time Nobel laureate nominee.
We have artists that are well known writers that
are well known anyway. So. With the mentor project
now, we're in year five. We were able to give
out $3 million of mentoring hours for free. And
we have one mentor who lives in California. His
name is Justin Thompson. And he was like, I want
to teach art to kids that have not been exposed
to art. Well, a person from Reach Shirati, you
should really look into this organization, Reach
Shirati. She called and said, we have a school
of 500 kids in a rural area of Tanzania called
Shirati and they would like to learn, um, they
would like mentorship. So we sent Justin to Tanzania
to teach these kids cartooning. He's the guy
that can draw Snoopy and he does these murals
around the world and he's trademarked through
them because he works for Schultz Creative Studios.
So here's this guy. He goes there and he teaches
these kids for, you know, a week and he, it went
so well. It was amazing. And he came back that
he went the following year. And then from there,
he taught the teachers and the other people and
the whole community came out in both cases. They
were so intrigued. He drew a gigantic mural on
the side of the school and the whole, you know,
moms were holding babies and dads were like helping
with the scaffolding and stuff like that. Well,
then he went to Flatbush Brooklyn just this past
January and worked with middle schoolers there.
So he was and same thing. The kids loved it.
So the real cool thing is that one man. He changed
the lives of individual students. He changed
the lives of a community, and now he's bridging
students between. He's going to start bridging
the students between Brooklyn and Tanzania, and
he's going to be changing the world one man.
And so that's really what the power of mentorship
is that you can make a bigger impact than you
could ever even realize. And that's just one
of the many, many, many stories that we have
of our mentors who do phenomenal work to change
communities just in a short amount of time. And
for free. And for free. And I was hearing that
I'm like, man, that's, that's powerful. One one
man, being able to change lives and connect lives
from continents. And I think that's really, that's
really special, especially when you're a young
person. And you're not you don't necessarily
know your world outside of your world. Yeah.
And just for for that gap to be connected. is
pretty powerful. Yeah, it really is. We've been
able to see that with other mentees who have
started companies with us, who who've patented
with us like kids, like who just you don't know
what you don't know until somebody shows you
what you don't know. And that's really what I
think is the most exciting, just like I didn't
know that what a psychologist was. And then I
said, I'm going to be a grandma fixer. And, you
know, then when we look at these kids who were
like, just like kind of They weren't lost. They're
curious, but how do you know if you live in an
area and there aren't astronauts or there aren't
artists or there aren't, you know, you don't,
you don't get exposed to people everywhere depending
on where you live. Like it doesn't matter where
you live. People tend to congregate. Like you
have Silicon Valley in California. If you're
not in California, you're not going to be around
those guys. This allows you to learn from people,
the mentor project by going into. Um, panel talks,
or to having just the opportunity to say, I want
to just talk with somebody 1 on 1 to get to know
what they do. And that's what students can do
and we'll, you know, we also get them in front
of their classes, you know, our mentors so that
kids can say, oh, I could do that in the future
where I could start that now. That's really the
power of it because I did not. think about how
powerful it was when that woman said, we're going
to fix your grandma. And they did. And because
that changed my trajectory. And now I know that
as soon as we allow kids to learn what they don't
know, their whole life trajectory opens up and
shifts and changes because they see they can
do it. And I could too. That's when we see that
kids will take a whole new life path. And we're
talking about, you know, a younger generation,
and this is the digital age, so to speak. How
does mentorship fit into the digital age? Or
do you see it growing or changing? unbelievable
growth. You're mentoring right now. Your podcast
is reaching people and if a person is meaningfully
connected to you and they have a goal of learning
something from you and they trust what you're
saying, you've just mentored. I don't know how
many listeners you have, but the people that
especially come back and they listen over and
over, you have, you're a modern mentor. This
did not exist pre -COVID. Pre -COVID, we were
all on Skype and nobody met up with people. So
now we see that AI is coming around and we're
seeing people that are having, you know, sort
of virtual bots of people that can answer questions.
They have that for, they've had that for a little
while with the Holocaust, people who've survived
it and they answer questions that looks like
a real person. And now we're seeing other professionals
coming into the same. Space and they're answering
questions that a person can ask that person,
you know, mentorship questions and they're, they're
able to answer it. So our modern mentoring is
opening up. Do I know what it'll look like in
10 years? No, but I have a feeling that what
you're doing is going to be compounded. So the
reach that you would have had without podcasting
would have been limited. You know, radio is a
local community. But now, you know, that was
pretty serious radio, you know, where you can
reach larger groups. But now podcasting, it's
limitless. If you're on YouTube or you go on
any social media platform, it could be millions.
And that's one person that can do that. So we're
able to connect people globally, you know, in
a matter of minutes, which, you know, we couldn't
have accomplished in our lifetime before. which
I think is really powerful because, you know,
when I look at, like, the behind the scenes stuff
that we have to look at with analytics, and,
you know, where our podcast goes, I'm amazed,
like, Russia, just to speak, you know, other
areas, you know, in the Asian areas. And it's
like, wow, like, people are actually listening
to us in these different countries. And what
they get from the knowledge that shared on here
is can be, you know, be exponential. We don't
necessarily know. And we now have translating
devices because of technology so that if you
are speaking in English and someone does not
speak English, but they have the ability to turn
on like a Google Translate or something, we can
now it doesn't matter. You can speak in whatever
language you want and somebody is going to be
able to get that translated into the language
that they are most comfortable with. And so that
makes the world that much smaller and our reach
that much greater. Yeah, which I think is dynamic.
Yeah. I know. So the this episode is really talking
about entrepreneurship and how it is or entrepreneurship
and mentorship and how does entrepreneurs find
mentorship? mentors. But I think, you know, all
in all, like, just in life, having a mentor to
help guide you, especially when we're now we're
talking about younger generation. It's a powerful
person to have in your life. You know? What's
a great story that you could tell about you and
your personal mentorship? I'm just curious of
who I've mentored or who's mentored me. Or either
way, yeah. I have so many mentors and I, you
know, I just talked about my grandma. Grandpas
are important too. My very first mentor that
I really know was a mentor who he sits right
here, like he's right here. I used to, I was
the oldest grandchild and I lived in Des Moines,
Iowa. And my grandfather would take me every
Saturday driving through town to do his errands
with him. And he drove this gigantic car and
I'd sit in the front seat and he would tell me
stories about people that we would pass. So he'd
say, Oh, you see Mary over there? She's had a
hard life. You should have seen her kids though.
She put them through college. She works so hard.
You'd never know it. Oh, see that guy over there.
His wife just chewed him out for not bringing
in the dry cleaning. And you know, all of this
stuff. And I was like, Wow, he knows everybody.
He didn't I don't think he knew anybody. He was
just the point of this is week after week, he
would say to me, you never know a person's story.
Every single person has a story. So what he was
doing was telling me the story of everybody that
we passed. And I from that moment, net have never
ever met a person that I didn't want to know
their story. And that to me was super powerful
because it changed how I looked at people. You
can look at somebody as scary or off -putting
or somebody that, you know, that guy that had
the grimace when he said it was because his wife
chewed him out. I thought, well, of course he's
going to look like that. That makes, that made
me look at life and people differently. That
was a mentor that that mentorship lasted with
me forever. Um, in terms of me being, and I have
a ton of different mentors throughout my life,
you know, who are still with me, like my first
boss, 40 years later, we're still friends. Um,
I count her as a friend more than a mentor now,
but she changed how I looked at, um, teaching.
I was working with, um, children with severe
disabilities. And she said, You have to find
something in each child that you can resonate
with that you can You you say I want to see something
in this person that connects you And so whereas
most people would walk in and they'd say that
this group of kids. There's no hope with them
You know getting a child to drink from a straw
what felt like the biggest accomplishment For
us and for the child or getting some thing that
seemed very small to somebody else was monumental
and i still i still have pictures of the kids
i still remember every little bit about them
and that's what she taught me was how to look
at people and connect and find something of value
between the two of us that would be meaningful.
And in terms of me mentoring others, I think
that the biggest thing I could say, and I don't
always know when I'm mentoring, is that I have
been pretty consistent in terms of if a person
like my fellow classmate asks me for something,
I am going to help them. So I will reach out
and help them. And one example that I have right
now is there's a young woman, her name is Dina,
and she lives in Kenya. I've never met her in
person, but I've been mentoring her for a couple
of years now. And she was looking for how can
she get involved and do things. And she calls
from a crappy Wi -Fi phone that's like not working
great, cuts out all the time. But she started
TMP Kenya there and now has a whole lot of college
students who come to her and she's the leader
now and she's mentoring others in how they can
get mentorship and leading an entire group of
people. So she's changing her entire community
in Kenya and now doing a lot of what we're trying
to do. Here, I've never met her, but we meet
all the time. She's now going to start writing
about it and blogging about it. And to me, that
feels like I'm forever connected with her. There's
a piece of the two of us living in each other
now, and that will never go away. You can't sever
that cord. You can't take that away. When she
wins, every time she grows, I feel like a little
piece of me is living there with her and growing
with her. powerful to me. That is very powerful.
Like mentorship by itself, just as you were describing
it and sharing your stories. Like it's it. It's
a piece of you that continues to live on. Yeah.
And you never really know how that piece of you
that's now living in somebody else affects someone
else. And so just by just the exponential ripple
effect effect, you're really, you know, changing
the life of other people without you even knowing
it. Exactly. So how does someone get in connection
or involved with the Mentor Project? Well, if
you are a student, kindergarten through graduate
school, and you want to receive mentorship for
free, you click the Become a Mentor button on
our website, www .mentorproject .org. and you
will get through and get a mentor. If you're
a minor, someone who's under 18, you will need
to get your guardian to sign as well because
we have paperwork. All of our mentors go through
background checks and are vetted by several people
and have to do a whole onboarding system. So
we do ask that our mentees also fill out onboarding
information as well. So we're really very strict
about that, but it's free. If you are someone
who says, ooh, I'd love to donate or support
the mentor project, or I want to volunteer, or
I want to become a mentor, click our contact
us button and let us know. And then we'll get
in touch with you. Or go to our donate page,
whatever you'd like, but that's a way to become
Generative with us and we're really excited to
meet new people and get involved with more people
Yeah, I think it's a it's a powerful stance that
you take and when I'm first what we first talked
about, you know having you on and and Turn about,
you know, just having you on I was like, you
know mentorship Yeah, you know, be a mentor.
But it gets so much more deeper than the basic
understanding of, you know, oh, okay, you could
be a mentor. There's so much depth into the connection
of what a mentor -mentor relationship could be
and is. And I think that's just a powerful thing.
It is and I think everyone who if they listen
and realizes that they're a mentor in some capacity,
it's the most fulfilling thing that you can feel
is knowing that you have made a difference that
you live on in somebody else. Yeah, it is. What
would you say is advice will be a piece of advice
to entrepreneurs about mentorship. And let me
rephrase that. What's your one piece of advice
that you can give to entrepreneurs about being
mentorships in the world? I would say look to
your left and look to your right. You're looking
at a mentor or a mentee. There's everyone is
a mentor or mentee at any given moment. And if
you incorporate the idea of mentorship at the
very beginning, when you're starting out, it's
going to help you because you will be seeking
the advice of others. You're not going to be
the solo person running out, making mistakes
left and right. Somebody is going to check you
here and there. And you'll also end up. Having
a much more fulfilling journey with the with
the project that you're working on because doing
things alone is a lonely existence and entrepreneurs
often feel like cats you know they're off doing
their thing all by themselves and that's lonely
why be lonely. go out and connect with others
make mentorship a part of your foundation. It
does not limit your organization, it's only going
to make it grow exponentially faster with much
more impact. So look left, look right. Man. That's
that's yeah, that's it right there. And just
just a characteristic, are there characteristics
of what makes a good mentor? I tell this to people,
there's no good mentor and there's no bad mentor.
There's, there's just, you're a mentor or you're
not. So I'm going to go through it a little because
it's not like you say, yeah, I've got this friend.
They throw me under the bus every week and that's
not your friend. Like run away from that person.
So that would be, you would say that's a bad
friend. I would say that's not a friend, right?
So mentorship is the same way. So people will
say, oh, you need to be an inspiring mentor.
No. Like, do you ever say, I'm going to go look
for an inspiring friend? We have to think of
mentorship, not as a job and burden that somebody
is carrying that, you know, Oh my gosh, I better
pull this person up out of the trenches. That's
not the relationship. It has to be that the two
people, there has to be someone who says, I want
to give something to you. And then you have to
want what I'm giving. If you don't want what
I'm giving. That's not mentorship. I'm not going
to try to be more inspiring and give you more,
you know, make you want what I have. It's like
giving a gift at the holidays and somebody opens
it up and they go, you know, that's not a gift
then to that person. So they have to have that.
Then it has to be an intrinsically motivated
relationship. If you are paid, you are not a
mentor. Period. End of story. People try to tell
me all the time. Oh, no, no, but I'm a coach
and a mentor. No, you're not. You're a coach.
Would you do it for no money? No. OK, then you're
a coach. You're not a mentor. You don't pay your
friends, do you? This is where we have to think
of mentorship as somebody has to be intrinsically
motivated to do it at both ends. So mentee also
can't be like, well, I'm doing it because somebody
is going to say, well, they have a mentor. I'm
going to give them a good performance of that
or something like that. You also have to have
a meaningful connection. You have to like the
person. If you do not like your mentor, if you
do not respect your mentee, you are not a mentor.
You are not a mentee. That relationship just
isn't mentorship. It's something else. If you
also need trust. So if I think you're going to
run, I'm an entrepreneur and I say, I'm afraid
that that person is going to run off with my
idea. That's not mentorship. I'm not gonna freely
give to that person cuz i'm gonna think they're
gonna steal my idea likewise if i say i'm not
gonna i don't trust that. If i tell this person
what i don't know they're going to judge me in
some way it's just not mentorship. And finally
there has to be a goal if you're just chatting
then your friend. So you need all of these a
person should never think they have to go and
tap dance to be a better mentor. They should
not have to think they have to be inspirational.
If you say, oh, I've got a toxic mentor. That's
not your mentor. That's some toxic individual.
You're not being mentored by them. So we have
to remove those sort of value things that we
put on mentorship and think of it more the way
that we think of friendship. Does everyone who
passes in front of you become your friend? No,
does that make them a bad person? No, they're
just not your person. Same with mentorship. It
has to be the right fit. Otherwise, what's unique
in mentoring? What's unique about anybody? Yeah,
I thought you wouldn't keep going because I was
saying I saw you sort of shift and I was like,
All right, I'll stop. Go ahead. Keep going. I
was just going to say that the value judgments
that I hear from most people and a lot of people
will say the 10 top ways to be a good mentor.
And I think to myself, no, nobody does that with
any other relationship that we have. If you know
how to be in a relationship with someone, every
one of us does. That's all you have to think
of it'll feel natural. It's organic Don't give
it more thought than it needs to have if you're
not feeling that vibe with that person just say
oh I guess we were mentoring now. We're not it's
run its course. Is that a failure? No, that is
not a failure That is just not mentoring. You
can be friends at that moment. You can be an
acquaintance You can hate the person whatever
you want But don't make mentorship be something
that feels like a burden. Yeah, that's exactly
what just came in my head. Like it doesn't have
to be a burden. So like you creating the distinction
between mentorship and friend mentorship and
coach is very powerful. And thank you for creating
the distinction between that. As your last words
on the podcast, what is what is it that that's
on your heart that that you want to share. I
really hope that people will engage in mentorship
because a more connected world, you know, I'm
starting to see that the world is getting so
much more connected because of our our tech advances.
And if you're able to connect with more people,
I see only goodness coming from this because
when you're meaningfully connected with someone,
that is not usually for diabolical purposes.
It's because we're making the world a better
place. So my goal is to hopefully get as many
people as possible connected in meaningful ways
so that we can make some really good change and
entrepreneurship is a key part of that. So I
also hope people check out my book, The Mentorship
Edge and learn all those distinctions that we
talked about. Yes, you know, and we'll have like
your information circulating with our information
and the description description and everything.
And I think that people will check it out because
of everything that you shared. You shared your
heart, you shared your stories, you shared your
your education and everything that you've been
through. So I want to say thank you for just
being a light in this world with connecting and
bridging people from across the world to each
other. And really connecting with people's hearts
and souls that will, again, exponentially connect
with other people and other people and other
people. It's a great work that you're doing.
And I wholeheartedly appreciate it. So thank
you so much for doing that. And thank you for
thank you. And I want to say thank you for being
a modern mentor and touching the lives of so
many. The impact you're making is exponential
and you probably don't even know a tenth of what
you're what you're doing. So thank you for doing
what you do. I appreciate that. I'm gonna get
I'm gonna take that label on as modern modern
mentor. So Debra, thank you for being on the
podcast. And anyone who's watching everybody
who's watching and listening to the podcast,
we'll put our information Dr. Deborah Heiser's
information in our description. So make sure
that you go get the book, connect with her and
just become a mentor in the world. And if you
need to be menteed. Find your mentor in the world.
And just connect with us on the Thravo journey
on Facebook, Instagram, you know how to get in
connection with us. And as we always say about
this time, make thriving your new normal. Thank
you, Dr. Deborah Heiser. Appreciate you. Before
you go, I just want to say thank you. Thank you
for being a part of the Thravo journey. Every
time you show up here, you're choosing growth.
clarity, and the deeper work of becoming who
you're meant to be in this world. And if you're
ready to reconnect with what truly lights you
up, I created something powerful that can help
you. It's called The Empowered Path, Seven Days
to Reclaim Your Purpose and Passion. It's a beautifully
designed guided workbook that walks you through
a week of powerful prompts. clarity building
tools, and real mindset shifts. Now you can get
instant access to it today. It's a small investment
for a huge return, your energy, your clarity,
your alignment. And if you want to take it deeper,
check this out. I'm offering a limited number
of free 30 minute purpose coaching sessions.
No pressure. No pitch, just space for you to
reconnect with your direction, your gifts, and
what's next. So you can grab the guide and book
your session at the link in the show notes. Let's
not just go through the motions. Let's really
walk this path on purpose. I appreciate you.
And like we always say, let's make thriving our
new normal. And I'll talk to you soon.