I think that's the biggest secret, for lack of
better phrasing, is a lot of people think I got
to focus on the right things when in reality
what works even better is stopping the things
that are nonsensical. I often joke, I say, how
much would Michael Jordan be paid to play basketball
150 years ago? And the answer is zero dollars.
There was no market. There was no NBA. There
was no... So you kind of have to figure out what
is profitable and self -improvement. I started
doing therapy in my 30s and realizing, oh...
Got it. So I had there's four trauma responses.
I'll go brief with this There's fight flight
freeze and fawn drinking too much and too often
for sure grew up around a lot of alcohol Didn't
know that didn't know it wasn't normal, right?
What does next level mean to me? It means no
matter how hard your past has been you have a
bigger better brighter future on the other side
of taking personal responsibility. Hey, family.
This is a Throb Word journey. Look, life's too
short to just get by. And 2025 is the year to
persist. We're here to grow, build, and thrive.
This podcast is all about powerful stories, real
talk, and practical steps to help you level up
in every area of your life. Now, if that sounds
like something you need, don't just watch. Be
a part of the journey. Let us know you're here.
Do us a favor. If you're listening on the podcast
platform, download the episode and if you're
watching on YouTube, you know what to do. Hit
that like button, subscribe and turn on those
notifications so you never miss an episode. And
as we always say, let's make thriving our new
normal. So today we will be talking about scaling
your business and life like a no BS guide to
fulfillment and wealth. And our guest at just
two years old, our guest, Alan Lazarus, lost
his father in a car accident. And at 26, after
surviving a near fatal crash himself, he found
himself questioning everything, his choices,
his purpose, realizing that external success
meant nothing. without true alignment. He turned
to holistic self -improvement, immersing himself
in learning and transformation. And today he's
the founder and CEO of Next Level University,
a global top 100 self -improvement podcast, 75
countries with a heart -driven, but no BS approach.
And he's here to help us elevate love, life,
health, and wealth to the next level. And we
just had a cool little conversation before we
started. Alan, how you doing man? I'm very well.
I really appreciate being here. And the first
thing I always want to share, other than gratitude,
because that's definitely where I want to start,
is I don't take it lightly. Anyone who is out
there watching or listening, 10 years ago, after
that car accident that you mentioned in the intro,
I found podcasts, I found self -improvement,
I found books, I found courses, and I really
started reflecting on myself and my life. And
podcasts were very, they helped me sort of re
-orchestrate and reconstruct my life in a much
more positive way. of direction. So whatever
you're listening to, or watching is definitely
influencing you a lot. So I don't take it lightly
to be here, because a lot of podcasters in the
past helped me tremendously. So now I help people
and I think it's, it's a dream come true. So
thanks for having me. Absolutely. We were kind
of talking about the podcast world and how you
just said it was like crickets in the beginning.
And now like, you're busy. You know, like what's
I mean, you have over 1700 episodes, we're new.
And so thank you for being here, man. We're new.
This is like, you know, season 145. I think you're
episode 16 or 17. You know, like, what's the
secret to longevity and success that you that
you've encountered. Well, so we're coming up
on 2000 episodes that that's actually I think
1996 was last night. And these usually when you
say that to someone who doesn't podcast, it's
like, what do you do, man? Right? When you say
it to a podcast or they're like, wait, what?
Yeah. Yeah. So you mean like one minute episodes?
No, our average length is a half an hour. And
we it's 1 % improvement in your pocket from anywhere
on the planet completely free. But similar to
what you just said, I don't ever want to forget
where we started back in early March of 2017
and we started out I remember back when I was
hoping for four listens a day you know and now
we get you know thousands a day and I track it
every day where we just surpassed 1 .17 million.
listens, which is wild. And again, some podcasters,
that's not that great for us. That's, that's
a big deal for anyone in the beginning. That's
a really big deal. And so we all have our niches,
right? But the secret to staying power, the secret
to sticking around and sticking with it. And
I have these sort of four rules of success that
I give to all my business coaching clients, 25
individuals right now that I'm coaching. It's
the first one is stop the wrong trains, which
I think that's the biggest secret for lack of
better phrasing is A lot of people think I got
to focus on the right things when in reality,
what works even better is stopping the things
that are nonsensical. So for me, prior to my
car accident that you mentioned at 26, I'm 36
now, even though I look 12. You're not looking
30, whatever. You're looking young. I used to
be able to say... I'm hoping to hit puberty at
37, but then I grew this little mustache I got
going, so I can't say that anymore. And by the
way, as a business coach, looking young is super
helpful. People love to be taught by a teeny
bopper. I'm obviously joking, but again, it is
what it is. But anyways, so the first rule is
stop the wrong trains, which is prior to 26,
my car accident, I was drinking too much and
too often. I had high school friends and college
friends and corporate friends. And I brought
my high school friends to college and my college
friends to corporate. I was just in too many
circles with too many groups. I was a chameleon
trying to fit in everywhere. I was a wandering
generality. Zig Ziglar is a personal development
speaker from way back in the day, a wandering
generality versus a meaningful specific. And
now I coach, I train, and I podcast. That's kind
of all I do. And I help people align their passion
and their purpose with profit. And that's actually
really hard to do because what the economy pays
for is actually not usually what is fulfilling
and meaningful to you. It's very hard to align
those two. I often joke, I say, how much would
Michael Jordan be paid to play basketball 150
years ago? And the answer is zero dollars. There
was no market. There was no NBA. There was no
right. So he's very, he was very blessed in the
sense that his passion and his purpose were aligned
with something very profitable. And not all of
us are that fortunate. So you got to have to,
you kind of have to figure out what is profitable
and self -improvement, for example, it's not
super profitable, but business coaching is So
if I frame myself as a business coach, but I
help all the business owners improve themselves
I get to be a self -improvement coach for a profit
because when they grow their revenue I can get
a percentage of that type of thing So how do
you turn your passion to purpose into profit?
How do you stay long -term the first answer?
is stop doing all the bullshit that is holding
you back. So I quit drinking, I'm over five years
sober. It took me a long time to stop that. And
I really, I gotta say this too, the hardest part
for me has been losing people. So. I think some
people are really good at relationships and I
think some people are really good at success.
It's very rare to be good at both. I was definitely
good at success, not good at relationships. Engineer,
mathematical thinker, structure, discipline,
systems, structure, strategic thinking, chess
player of the game, so to speak, which is why
people don't like me. I'm reframing that to people
don't understand me fully. So my business partner,
Kevin, he's the people guy and I'm the systems
instructor, metrics guy, and you really need
both in business. And so for me, the hardest
part has been prior to 26, I had a lot of friends,
friends of friends and friends of friends of
friends. And I was invited to all the weddings
and all the barbecues. And now I quite frankly
have a very, very small circle by design, but
that's been really hard on my heart. But I realized
in hindsight, success is hard enough, even without
any friends, nevermind with a ton of them. So
I think one of the hard truths about success
and staying power is you kind of have to say
no to a lot of other things in order to stick
to the one really important things. Yeah, you
will actually I'll get the best of both worlds.
I have you on. I believe your partner is coming
on in a few weeks. So I'll get to have both of
those energies here. Good luck following this,
Kev. I'm joking. Everyone will like him more
than me. That I promise. Well, it's great to
have both energies intertwined because it seems
like it's working for you. Just talking about
the podcast space, how can entrepreneurs effectively
use their podcasting? if they're doing podcasting
to grow their business. Well, the first thing
I think it comes down to. So I have something
called a business star. It's just a framework.
It's a star with five points. And I actually
just taught it in a group coaching program last
night. And it's the group coaching program is
level up yourself, level up your podcast, level
up your business. It's six sessions, two, two,
two. And we just got to the business session.
And so this is the business star that I taught
last night. The first one is branding. Second
is marketing. Third is sales. Fourth is delivery.
And then fifth is community. So to me in the
21st century, the most important five things
to master in business are those five. But a lot
of people don't know the difference between them.
And I certainly didn't in the beginning. It's
over time that I started to understand all this.
Okay, so branding is it's essentially who you
are in someone else's consciousness. So if you
think of who was the most, so Kevin and I, we
went to the same high school. So if you were
to ask Kev, who was the most, who was the jock,
the biggest jock in our high school, him and
I would come up with the same, probably three
names. That's their reputation. Life, and again,
this is a metaphor, so don't take this literally,
but business is kind of like a huge high school.
I always say Tesla should not sell energy drinks
and Red Bull should not sell cars. You need to
be a meaningful specific. And so a lot of people,
They stray so much and Kev, he came to me early
on. He's like, what do you think about this?
And how do we do this? And this would be profitable.
It's like, dude, we got to stick to our thing.
And a lot of times business owners trying to
make money, they end up doing a bunch of stuff
that's not relevant to their sort of core value.
Like Nike is about athletics. It's not selling
cars and it shouldn't. That would water down
the brand. Okay. So branding is what people say
about you and think about you when you're not
there. Yeah. Okay. Good, bad or ugly. That's
your brand. That's the brand. Yeah. All right.
Number two. Two, marketing. Now, in some ways,
marketing, I think a lot of people think is making
yourself look better than you really are. We
try not to say that that's what it is. This is
what it is for us. Number one is knowing your
target demographic. In the podcasting world,
it's knowing your listener. So I'll use mine
as an example, but I want everyone thinking about
their own. So our listener are women in their
twenties, thirties and forties who struggle with
courage, clarity and confidence who want more
success in their intimate relationships and especially
in their careers. Okay. It's people who are humble
have have high work ethic and actually low self
-worth. We don't deal with entitled people. We're
like tryhards who came from nothing, both didn't
have dads, so we don't believe in the big rewards
for minimal effort stuff. Whatever that's going
on in the internet, not for us. Again, it is
what it is. People are like, oh, just raise your
prices. It's like, well, did you get any better?
What are your thoughts? But anyways, so marketing
is knowing who your target listener is. We call
it an ILA, ideal listener avatar. Which in the
beginning, you don't know because you don't have
any listeners yet. So you got to go meet them
and reach out to them and have calls with them
and understand them and study them and social
media. So we figured it out. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
So we didn't know at the beginning, right? We
thought bros bodybuilding bros, we're going to
listen. Okay. Yeah, that's where you came from
that world. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But Kevin and I
both used to, we still bodybuild, I guess, I
guess we don't brand ourselves that way anymore.
But yeah, and definitely got a little less in
shape than in my fitness competition. He's unfortunate
branding. a business or be in shape. Never both
unless it's a fitness business, right? It's very
hard to do both. Two full -time jobs. It is.
All right. So branding who you are and what people
say and think about you when you're not there.
Marketing is who you're talking to, so the person.
What you're saying, which is the message. So
Lowe's has never stopped improving. BMW is the
ultimate driving machine. Geico has saved 50
% or more on car insurance, right? So the message,
the person you're messaging too. And then it's
the channels. Okay. So the channels are podcasts.
WhatsApp is big for us. Facebook is big for us.
Yeah. Instagram is big for us. So LinkedIn, not
as much. Again, think of the demographic part
driven, but no BS. LinkedIn is more professional.
Gotcha. I would have thought LinkedIn. Nope.
In hindsight, Facebook and Instagram, 90 % of
our listeners, right? So you got to figure this
out through massive pain and failure, by the
way. All right. Branding, branding, marketing,
sales, sales, building meaningful relationships
with your target demographic in the real world.
So we like to say, change the word sales with
help. Instead of I'm going to sell you, I'm going
to help you. Or instead of I'm going to sell
you, I'm going to invite you. Yeah, I like that.
So we have a meetup tomorrow night. I invite
you. So we are inviting people to a meetup tomorrow
night, totally free on productivity. So if you
want to get more out of your time and effort,
boom, free. So sales, and this is the best thing
I understand about sales at this point. And I
screwed this up for years. You cannot have a
level eight ask for a level six relationship.
Now here's, here's the, so my beautiful girlfriend
and future wife, Amelia, if I walk into her office
and I say, Hey sweetheart, I give her a kiss
on the cheek. Totally appropriate. If I do that
to some stranger, I'm going to get slapped in
the face as I should. It's you don't know me
like that. You haven't earned that. a lot of
people in sales, especially in the 21st century
online, they're selling and pushing products,
but they haven't built a relationship yet. So
Michael, if I found out that you listened to
500 episodes of our show, I would invite you
to the meetup, but we just met. So it's like,
Hey man, come to my meetup. It's like, you don't
know me like that. And so people get offended
when you have a level 10 ask for a level two
relationship. And that's why free is so powerful
because it's not an ask, it's an invite. Wow.
I love that. You know, again, we're in the beginning
stages and you know, it's a lot of work. And
I mean, I like it, you know, I mean, it's, it's,
it's an arm of my business, but I like what we're
doing, you know, myself and the producer, two
man, man, woman team. And as I'm hearing you
say all these things, I'm like, man, Okay. So
we shouldn't be so upset when we get, you know,
low views or low listens, but it's when I look
at analytics and all that kind of great stuff,
it's the same people, or at least the same area.
So it's like we're creating a relationship with
people and it's prime where we are. And everyone's
low in the beginning. Yeah. You know, and it's
like, it's the love of it. Really. I love being
able to have these kinds of conversations and
meet people like yourself. who have rich offerings,
so to speak, from their experience, from who
they are, and then just being able to share that
with people. And it brings such, I don't know,
just a fulfilling moment for me when I get to
have these moments like this. So all that you
just shared was like, it's gold, and you never
know who can pick that gold up and use it. cash
in at some point in the future. I appreciate
that. And I think that one of the reasons why
we are successful is because we are so open to
giving value for free. Yeah, I mean, I have done
I think 340 I track everything. So I'm an engineer.
I always have to preface this because I come
off so pretentious. I track everything we at
NLU we track every listen every single episode.
I mean, we have 54 podcasts as we work with plus
11 from group coaching. So you're looking at
60. Five and then you've got it's 58. I'm sorry.
It's 58 podcasters plus 11 which is 69 I knew
my mind was off on that and then I work with
25 business owners So we're looking at almost
a hundred paying clients But what we tell people
first of all, there was no clients in the beginning
We didn't make any money in the beginning second
of all all of those clients were after free sessions
We built relationships with people for free.
I coached for free eight years ago I say I've
been mentoring for 10 years coaching for eight
because I didn't get paid until two years in
and I was a fitness coach and I was a mindset
coach and I was a peak performance coach and
I was a life coach and I was a business consultant
for a time and now I'm a business coach. So it's
been a hell of a journey. So if you look at our
moment now, I like to use the iPhone as a metaphor.
Like when you see the iPhone, I don't see an
iPhone. I see the 48 years Apple has been perfecting
technology. See, the very first iPhone in 2007
when I was a senior in high school was a revolutionary
breakthrough. That thing would be hot garbage
compared to this iPhone 14. It wouldn't be close,
right? So me eight years ago was not good, didn't
have a business star, wasn't able to articulate
to the way that I can now, right? So in the beginning
though, you really do need to... put it on the
court and, and add a lot of value and be willing
to work for free and offer free trials. I've
done 340 free business breakthrough sessions
and I only have 25 clients. So if you look at
the, if you go into business entitled, I think
you're screwed long -term short -term, you can
kind of look like you win and that kind of thing.
But what we've found, we've had a lot of podcasters
come and go because we've, we obviously do podcast
production. We produce 58 shows, including three
of my own, but At the end of the day, we've seen
so many come and go and it goes back to that
staying power thing. And so you have something
which is you just found fulfillment while podcasting,
which in the beginning, unless you have a side
business that's really crushing it, that's connected
to the podcast is basically all you can play
for. In the beginning, all we were playing for
was that fulfillment, learning, growing and fulfillment.
And then eventually over time, you start to know
your value. You start to go, okay, well, I'm
actually pretty good at this and we should really
start charging for this. And well now we know
how to audio and video edit. And now we know
how to do this, show notes, all that stuff, mid
-tro, outro, intro. So you just accumulate so
much expertise because you were so focused for
so long on adding value. Then you start to charge
and then you can reinvest that back into branding.
marketing, sales. And then you go to the other
two that I didn't finish, which is delivery.
So a lot of people, unfortunately, I came into
the self -improvement space, very naive. And
I thought, you know, this is going to be different
because I came from industrial automation. I
came from the corporate world. I came from a
world that I think has some alarming things about
it. Taking jobs is all good. It's happening.
It is what it is. Okay. I come into the self
-improvement space. I'm this naive 26 year old.
And I'm thinking this industry will be different.
This industry will be of integrity. Yeah, that
was wrong. Oh, there are just as many snakes
in this garden. Oh my goodness. I mean, some
people are quite frankly just lying straight
up lying about their listeners. You're sitting
there going, well, we don't have that many listeners.
That's honesty. In the beginning, most people
are lying. Hey, we have 60 ,000 a month. All
this. No, you don't. I produce 58 podcasts. I
know you're lying, but most people don't know,
right? So they're airing on the high side of
perception. It's not real. We say air on the
high side of reality. So delivery means you can't
just brand market and sell. You have to actually
over deliver. We've all opened a bag of chips
and had it one third full and been like, where's
my chips? Yeah. Where's my chips, man. You go
on a first date and it's like, this is back in
the day. Cause I've been with Emilia monogamous
five years adore everything. Uh, but in the past
it was like, Oh my God, your Instagram looks
so good. Right. It's it's they're really good
at making themselves look good rather than actually
being great on the inside. Okay. And so in business,
it's the same deal. Branding marketing and sales
is only the first three steps. After that, you
have to have a product or service. that's actually
amazing. Yeah. If the iPhone sucked, it doesn't
matter how good the website looks, right? Fifth
is community. Zappos is a great example. They
sell shoes, they sell a commodity, but it's got
this whole community around it. And so we have,
so our community, and this is, I'll define delivery
and I'll define community. What's up Thrivo Journey
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journey while supporting the Thrabu Journey podcast
at the same time. All right, one more time, www
.TheOrientsGroup .com. All right, we're done
with the spot. Let's get back to the podcast.
Listeners expectations. So if you coach with
me, you're gonna get you pay for an hour -long
session. You're gonna get an hour and 15 That's
actually why I was late by the way, sorry That
lateness what you're giving now makes up for
it 100 % Alright and then the last one is community
which is it's it's getting people together surrounded
by a core value So we have a place called Next
Level Nation. It's a private Facebook group.
Next Level University is the podcast. NextLevelUniverse
.com is the website. Next Level Nation is the
private community. All right. In the community,
we're not in there talking about politics or
religion or any of that. We're talking about
holistic self -improvement. And in the beginning,
we didn't know what the hell we were doing. But
over time, it's like, what is it that we're actually
providing? Right? What's the business you think
you're in versus the problem you're actually
solving? The problem I think we're actually solving
is that this growth journey is lonely as shit.
Yeah. And when you start looking inward and you
start looking at all your inadequacies and you
start building self -belief and self -worth and
you start this dream chasing unorthodox thing,
like becoming a podcaster, you're alone and you
don't feel like anyone supports you. And so it's
all heart -driven, but no BS like -minded dream
chasers that now it's cool to talk about self
-improvement. So we created a space just earlier
today. It was a joking post. Amy, she does Next
Level Nation. She's one of our team members.
And in the beginning, we had to do this all ourselves,
by the way. That's another thing. But she posted
caffeine or motivation. And I messaged both.
I commented. And there's a bunch of comments
on there and all this kind of stuff. So some
of it's fun and playful. Some of it's what books
are you reading? Some of it's, you know, are
you journaling? And so it's just a place where
there's no bullies and self -improvement is actually
cool because trust me, I wish it was self -improvement
is not cool. You know, be at a holiday dinner
table with your whole extended family and say,
who's excited to grow and contribute at a higher
level next year? What are your, what are your
goals and dreams? Everyone's going to be like,
okay, I got to get away from end of days over
here, you know? And they want to go back to talking
about sports or the weather or some other. nonsense
that really isn't super relevant. So if you're
the esoteric weirdo like me and like you, obviously,
you're welcome here. And there is a place for
you. And so that's what community is. You got
to build a space where people can gather around
a common core value. Never be a rapper at a country
concert. Yeah, that's funny. That's funny. I
don't know. Sometimes they may cross over a little
bit, but I get you. Actually, let's kind of talk
about the world of self -improvement. At two,
you did lose your father. At 26, you got... car
accident. Is that when things started to shift
for you? And who were you before the accident
that you had? If you can tell that story just
a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. So you don't
really know when you're young, where you fall
on the spectrum, the bell curve. So some people
have a ton of trauma in their childhood. It's
called an A score adverse childhood experiences.
Some people are on the very, very, very far end.
And some people are in the very, you know, happy,
you know, childhood. I didn't know because you
don't know any different, right? Right. And then
you get older and older and older and you rewatch
the movie of your own life. And it's either wow,
it was actually really good or it's alarming.
And it's what in the oh my that wasn't normal.
Oh, that wasn't normal. Okay, that wasn't normal.
So the metaphor that I use is we do relationship
talks, coaching Emilia and I we coach couples
and we use this metaphor because what happens
in couples is they have different Richter scales.
And I'll circle this back to my story as well
to answer your original question. If you grew
up in California and you feel a little tiny earthquake,
you don't even notice it. I've lived in California.
I know. Perfect. Okay. So I'm in Massachusetts.
So if we feel anything, it's like, oh my God,
what is happening? Yeah. Right. But if it's down
in South Carolina, apparently they got snow this
year. People are losing their minds. And in New
England, we're like, that's a Tuesday. So the
problem with childhood, and I can only laugh
about this because I've done a lot of therapy
in my 30s. You don't really know that you've
been in level 10 earthquakes repeatedly your
entire childhood until you get a partner who
hasn't. And you bring them to a family gathering.
No, I'm kidding. All right, so and they're like
Yeah, okay. So it's like oh, this is normal for
you So but here's what happens right one person
is raising their voice and the other person's
going I never what's going on here. This is is
this is really bad It's like oh you thought I
was raising my voice I got that was nothing so
it all depends on what you grew up around, right?
So we all develop now the benefits of an adverse
childhood are you have a ton of grit? you most
likely can suffer more than other people. You
just, you can run through a wall, right? The
downsides are you probably don't understand your
worth and your value. You're probably used to
being disrespected. So you probably tolerate
it all the time without even knowing it, that
kind of stuff. Okay. So to go back to my childhood,
father passed away at two. I had a stepfather
from age three to 14. My mom and stepdad did
not get along. That's a polite way to put it.
It wasn't all bad for anyone who ever would have
listened from my child. Like it wasn't all bad.
We had a lot of adventure. We had snowmobiles
and we had ski trips and we, it was the sort
of mid to late nineties, early two thousands.
And my stepdad worked for a company called AGFA.
Steve Lazarus. So my real last name is actually
McCorkle. John McCorkle was my birth father.
Big Irish Catholic family. It was Jim, Joe, John,
Jane, Joan, Jeanette. He was one of all J and
I didn't know my dad. I was two and a half when
he passed. Stepfather came into my life, Steve
Lazarus from three to 14. And I playfully refer
to this time of my life as boats and BS. It was
the nineties, which first of all, The 90s dot
com bubble globally was very big economic boom
times. You can research this. It's nuts how much
the economy grew during that time. And in the
U .S. in particular, the largest economy in the
world. Again, you can look this up. The 90s were
wild. Yeah, it was wild. Right. You know. OK.
So you were in California during the 90s. So,
you know. No, I was in Michigan during the 90s.
But you still know. Yeah. Yeah. What do we do?
I guess we'll I guess we'll do inline skating
and snowboarding and we'll do might as well skateboard
because everyone's just everyone has money. It
was wild times. Not everyone but like comparatively
statistically. Okay, so We had snowmobiles and
my mom drove a BMW and we had ski trips and we
lived on a lake and trucks and he drove a Ducati.
And I mean, again, I didn't know any different.
So from the outside looking in, it looked awesome.
I mean, everyone thought I was rich and all this
stuff. And it was awesome. We literally had a
yacht. We had boats and ski trips. Very nice.
Very nice. Yeah. But from the inside out, mom
and stepdad didn't get along. They partied a
lot. I didn't know any different, right? So I
go from Xbox, streamcast, early Christmas presents,
computers, right? Video games, all this stuff.
To stepdad leaves at 14. Now I get free lunch
at school because our income is so low. He takes
90 % of the income with him. Takes his entire
extended family with him. Haven't seen a single
one of them since. Not one. We don't associate
with them as much anymore. I'm 14 years old because
we were trying to be the Lazaruses, right? Same
year, sister moves out with her older boyfriend.
Same year, mom gets in a fight with my aunt Sandy,
her sister. My aunt Sandy ostracizes us from
that side of the family. To this day, I've seen
two human beings from my mother's side. So used
to be too much of a coward to share any of this,
certainly not publicly. The abandonment issues
that came with that were beyond my current fathomability.
And I didn't know that this was happening to
me. Like I didn't consciously, oh, I'm being
abandoned, right? Obviously that wasn't conscious.
And I started doing therapy in my thirties and
realizing, Oh, got it. So I had, there's four
trauma responses. I'll go brief with this. There's
fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. The one I didn't
know was fawn. And that's the one that I did.
So fawn is you're a social coward. You just appease,
appease, appease people. Yeah. People pleaser.
And so I became this sort of chameleon, be whatever
I need to be to not be abandoned. so i can fit
in with the jocks i can fit in with the nerds
all this stuff now the cool thing that i'm very
grateful for even though it was it came with
constraining effects later was socially it was
fun still working through that literally in this
moment like i'm probably red i'm not that red
okay that's good news but usually i became this
sort of social coward don't speak up don't tell
anyone you think that they're wrong don't challenge
anyone or anything right just don't get abandoned
don't get abandoned don't get abandoned But behind
the scenes, there was a drive in me that you
wouldn't fucking believe. I mean, it was fight.
It was aim higher, work harder, get smarter,
aim higher, work harder, get smarter, aim higher,
work harder, get smarter. So this sort of super
achiever was built because I looked into the
future. It's like, okay, how do we keep the house
in the family? There's no dad. There's no trust
fund. There's no generational wealth. Like we
are screwed. Yeah. And what are we going to do?
So I got, I bootstrapped. I got straight A's
in all of high school. Didn't get a single B.
Got one B plus in honors English, but it was
weighted because it was an honors class. I got
the president's award. It's behind me signed
by George W. Bush, which basically means you
get a 95 or above GPA for all 16 report cards
for all four years, four report cards, four years
in a row. And now you know why no one likes me.
I'm kidding. I got all the scholarships and financial
aid that I could because my dream was to go to
WPI, Worcester Polytechnic Institute. It's kind
of like a mini MIT in Massachusetts. one of the
best engineering schools in the entire world
but it's 50 grand a year and this is back then
and we don't have money so i can't go right so
i i went from i hope i get in to even if i do
get in i can't go so i get straight a's i get
all the scholarships and financial aid i can
possibly get academic scholarships i get in i
do computer engineering graduate with high distinction
get my master's in business and then i mean i
went from broke in high school and college I'm
talking rogue and again, we weren't gonna starve
but like Salvation Army hand me downs like mom
trades in her BMW for little Honda Civic. I know
what broke is. Yeah. I know I see you. I see
you. Yeah, not fun But anyways, so I'm used to
you know, we didn't have cable, right? So I'm
like I start making money dude 65. Okay, so 2008
economy crashes. I'm a sophomore in college.
I get my master's in business. I stay boom boom
boom 2012 bachelors 2013 masters. I've got an
MBA with a computer engineering degree in the
21st century I know this now linkedin linkedin
boom boom boom 65 to 85 85 to 105 105 to 125
125 to 180 in like a four -year period So now
it's 2015. I'm in my early 20s. I'm a 1 % global
earner. I paid off 84 grand worth of debt in
a single year. Beautiful. Thank you. That was
my goal, get out of debt, right? Yeah. And so
debt -free, celebrated that, got made fun of.
That is what it is. 150 grand in a Vanguard account
with all tech companies. I'm this weird computer
engineering esoteric, built my first computer
at 12 guy. So... I know what tech companies are
going to win. And I know that sounds arrogant.
So I picked all the good ones, right? Smart.
Thank you. Thank you. And that's what I said,
but you're not supposed to say that. So whatever.
Oh, I was all, yeah, exactly. You're not allowed
to say you're gifted or smart or any of that,
which by the way, we'll talk about it. Kevin's
like, dude, that's not normal. So we'll talk
about it. But basically now I'm This I am with
a girlfriend named Courtney. We live on a lake
in Worcester, Massachusetts. It's 500 bucks a
month for rent. I bought a 2004 Volkswagen Passat
for five grand cash. I'm making more money than
I know what to freaking do with because I grew
up broke, right? So at least after 14 and now
it's like, okay, I'm making all this money. Then
my car accident. So I went from iRobot, Sensata
Technologies, Oz Development, Tyco Safety Products,
Simplex Grinnell, all these different companies.
I'd interview at SpaceX, all this stuff. I ended
up at a company called Cognix. They sell industrial
automation equipment into manufacturing facilities
all across the world. It's machine vision equipment.
Picture the eyes of a robot. Simplest way to
explain it. My territory is Vermont, Connecticut,
Western Massachusetts. I'm going to GE. I'm going
to all these big companies. I'm not even supposed
to talk about it. Okay. I'm making all this money.
Great. Awesome referral program brought my high
school friends to college college friends to
corporate Big referrals come in my way because
they didn't have to pay the headhunters because
I brought like three or four people from my college
to the company So I just am making tons of money,
but I don't need much. So awesome invested it
all 2015 I get in a car accident and I realize
I have done this wrong So the best way I can
describe it now, and at the time I did not get
this, so the car accident was my fault. I crossed
the double yellows, it was three -way intersection,
dark winter night, snow banks were covering the
yield sign. What I thought was a Mack truck,
it was a lift -kidded pickup truck, thankfully.
Yeah, what saved my life was Volkswagen the Volkswagen
Passat I used to call it the tank little German
engineered steel trap of a car The whole front
end is completely smashed head -on collision,
but the frame stayed airbags deployed. Okay,
that's good So physically I'm okay. My little
cousin hurt his knee on the airbag I hurt my
face in the airbag second cousin for my mom's
side one of the two people that came back He's
17 tweeting about it thinking nothing of it.
My dad died when he was 28 in a car I've seen
pictures of his car I'm looking at pictures of
my car just rattled. So physically I'm okay,
but mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, I
mean, existential quarter life crisis. Just,
this is the second chance my dad never got. You
know, who, what, when, or why? Who am I? Why
am I here? What am I doing with my life? Did
any of this money even matter, right? All of
that. Drinking too much and too often, for sure.
Grew up around a lot of alcohol. Didn't know
that. Didn't know it wasn't normal, right? And
the best way I can describe it now... These four
buckets of life that we all go through and this
is what I help people with now the first bucket
is unsuccessful externally and Unfulfilled internally
when I was 14 and my stepdad left. I remember
15 16. I was a car kid and a busboy at a golf
course I was miserable. I was people would say
high school the best years of your life, and
I remember thinking god. I hope not This is terrible,
right? Pretty pubescent. You think I look young
now? Imagine me at 16, man, you know, overlooked
by every girl, bullied by every jock. I mean,
just brutal, man. These are the best years of
your life. Oh no. Seriously, Hope? Nah, I was
like, nope. So luckily they were wrong. But anyways,
unsuccessful and unfulfilled. I think statistically
speaking, as scary as this might be to share,
I think most people are probably there. Unsuccessful
externally and unfulfilled internally. I feel
you, I've been there. It's terrible. The next
stage, I was externally super successful, which
I thought would solve my problems. Stepdad left,
lack of money caused pain, so I figured money
would do it. Definitely doesn't, but it helps.
So I became externally successful and internally
unfulfilled. Post car accident. Dude, I flipped
the script. I was like, okay, screw this external
achievement thing. I'm going all in on internal
work. I'm going to go self -improvement, personal
growth, personal development, fitness, happy,
healthy, productive. Went broke. Liquidated all
my assets. Started my own company, Alan Lazarus
LLC. What you'll never learn in school, but desperately
in all caps need to know. Good luck getting speeches
at high schools and colleges with that tagline.
Dumbest idea ever, right? Trying to bring personal
development to the masses. Naive. Still kind
of on that mission, but you know. Sneakily here.
So now I'm fulfilled as hell internally fitness
model fitness competitor fitness coach 43 photo
shoots three fitness competitions Happy healthy
and productive fulfilled as hell love my life
and love who I am, but I'm broke So now I'm externally
unsuccessful Kevin and I and he'll tell you that
too Fourth bucket didn't happen till my 30s.
The fourth bucket is where all of us want to
get It's when you can look in the mirror and
say I want my future to be an amplified version
of what it already is. You are externally successful,
relatively speaking, and that's a mountain that
gets higher as you climb. And you're internally
fulfilled. In other words, your external success
in your career and your calling are in alignment
with who you actually are and what's meaningful
work for you. And that's, I mean, it took me
30 years and I think some people, it takes them
a lot longer and it would have taken me a lot
longer had I not gotten in that car accident.
So I think that's the fourth bucket everyone
wants to get to. Very few people are there. That's
been... really hard for me to see. Like, I coach
a lot of people, right, blah, blah, blah. Awesome.
Congratulations, Alan. Very few people. Usually,
there's a lot of external success with very little
internal fulfillment, or there's a lot of internal
fulfillment, but they're not that successful.
Very hard to do both. And that's why it's so
rare, but it can be done. And that is my main
focus in life. Nice. You said, like, in everything
you said, it was so much and I just want to first
honor what you said. So thank you for sharing
all that. acknowledge all that you've been through
to get to where you are at this point. And it
takes a lot, you know, from where you were to
where you are. There's a, there's such a growth
pattern that, that, that you go through for people
who are in their beginning stages of getting
their business or entrepreneurs that, that want
to take the aspiring entrepreneur out to entrepreneur.
What do you say to them when it's such where
they are missing something internally? but they're
really completely focused on the external value
only. Like how do you get them to connect the
two or even realize that one thing is missing?
Yeah. I think the hardest part still to this
day about being an entrepreneur is playing the
long game and making sure it stays your game.
There's two worlds we all live in and one of
them is the social world and the other one is
the real world. Okay, the economy is built on
the social world. So this is your instagram profile
So the best metaphor for the social world versus
the real world and i've had oh god How do I not
come off pretentious kevin's like dude you got
to say that different dude? Just say it. Yeah,
just say yeah, literally just say okay It's okay.
It is what it is. I gotta own it Okay, i've had
dozens of coaches and mentors many multimillionaires
one billionaire what I came to get freaked out
by is how unfulfilled they are and how out of
shape they are now the old me didn't have the
courage to say that publicly but internally it
was like you take better care of your Porsche
than your family like i can't i can't even there's
got to be a way to do both right and that's the
health wealth and love thing like holistic and
i know why it's harder i gotta i gotta make this
clear mathematically if you're one in a hundred
health one out of a hundred wealth and one at
a hundred love you are one in a million it's
just way harder right yeah Michael Jordan tried
to play basketball and baseball. Like, it's not
going to happen, brother, with all the love,
right? Michael Phelps has 23 gold medals, but
they're all in swimming. He's not going to have
a gold medal in swimming and then also run a
marathon, right? So it's very hard to be good
at multiple things. It's very hard to be extremely
good at multiple things. Okay. That's the whole
strength and weaknesses conversation. Okay. So
go back to the social world and the real world.
Hardest part for an inspiring entrepreneur, if
I could give you a golden nugget here. The social
world is the wedding and the wedding photos.
The real world is the marriage when no one's
watching. Oh, yeah. Yeah. OK, so clarity to it.
Yeah, sure. Good. OK, so I try and again, I'm
not perfect at this, but I try after 26 in particular.
I tried to focus more on the marriage. And again,
I'm not married yet. So in this metaphor, the
relationship than I do the wedding photos, the
way I see it is inside out is better than outside
in. If I focus on my relationship with Emilia
when no one's watching. and I work on myself
and I make sure I'm courageous, humble and vulnerable
and I make sure that I'm there for her and supportive,
but also challenging all this stuff. Okay. Then
it will ripple into social media versus what
a lot of people are doing is making social media
look good at the expense of their insecurity
because their real life actually isn't great.
So I call it the inverse 10 law. If someone is
portraying level 10 wealth, they are one 10th
as successful as you think. I have some other
people that are, I've seen their bank account
that don't portray wealth at all. and they're
multi -millionaires. So they are 10 times more
successful than you think. However, in the self
-improvement space, in the entrepreneurial land,
because of the 21st century, how do you have
credibility if you don't look successful? Right.
So if I don't drive a Tesla and blah, blah, blah,
are you going to come to me for business coaching
or are you going to come to the guy who rented
a Ferrari? That's been my hardest part because
what's fulfilling is the real world. What brings
success, unfortunately, is branding and marketing
and perception. And you have to master both.
I say syntax matters, make sure the real world
is first. And then that ripples into the social
world. If you put the social world first, you
are you are gonna end up very broken inside.
And that's just I don't want anyone to do that.
Yeah, you know, I mean, listen, like this, that's
a whole meal. Okay. That's a meal with some,
with some, uh, you know, some, some extra stuff
on the side, you know, a little take home bag,
all that stuff you just said. And I, I want to
get into that, you know, some more, but I know
we have time limits. So I'm loving this. If you
want to keep going, it's up to you. I just, I
gave you a hard stop, but I, I want to keep going.
If, if, if you want, I want to honor your time.
Appreciate you. So I definitely want to do that.
Let's, let's do this then. I'd love to have you
back on maybe. with your partner, you know, at
a, do it like maybe a live event, if that's possible.
And we can create that. And because this is,
this is really, this is gold, man. I would love
to, we would love to. Yeah. That's so great.
But I want to honor your time. That's a big thing
with me. Thank you. definitely will arrange something
where you and your partner can come on together
and we'll have a live event or something like
that. I would love that. Yeah, really. You know,
pump that thing up. So I know so much. Okay.
So in the entrepreneurial space, like, and I'll
just ask this for the last question. What is
next level to you? Because it's your business,
right? Next level to you. And what would be your
words to aspiring entrepreneur or beginning business
owner to really help them fulfill on what you
just shared as far as fulfillment on the inside
and excellence on the outside. Okay. What does
next level mean to me? It's the mountain that
gets higher as you climb it. I think it's reaching
your potential. Next level you, pun intended.
It's not the next level version of me. It's not
the next level version of Kevin. Our podcast,
what I've tried to do, what we've tried to do
is make it feel like you're on the growth journey
with us. We're not talking from a place of we've
arrived. I'm 36, he's 35. Like we're still young.
We've not arrived. We've achieved many of our
dreams and that's great. But like we are barely
scratching our potential and I'm very future
oriented. I always said my career wouldn't even
start till I was 50. I'm weird with that. Right?
Yeah. And if you look at the statistics, most
people's careers really take off when they're
like late forties, fifties, that kind of thing.
If they stay, you know what I mean? So next level
you is pun intended. It's it's the becoming the
best version of yourself, the next level version
of yourself. So I'm Alan version three point
six and Alan version three point seven is going
to be hopefully smarter. It's going to be smarter.
more capable, more aware, more virtuous, more
humble, more confident, real confidence, not
arrogance, more a better leader, a better communicator,
hopefully, a better podcaster, coach, trainer,
all that stuff, and better partner, intimate
partner, health, wealth, and love. So what does
next level mean to me? It means no matter how
hard your past has been, you have a bigger, better,
brighter future on the other side of taking personal
responsibility. Now, this is one of the things
that's really hard for me. I had a client once,
her name was Bonnie, she wouldn't mind me sharing
this, and she's not my client anymore, she's
working with my girlfriend now. And she said,
Alan, you have trouble having compassion for
people because you started in worse circumstances
than they did and they are making excuses and
you didn't make any excuses. What I've come to
understand as I've matured is that if you don't
have high self belief, none of what I just shared
about my story would have been possible. There's
two, three advantages that I have and I need
to make this as clear as possible for anyone
out there thinking, well, that wouldn't have
worked for me. Number one. You're not allowed
to say this, but I have to have courage. I definitely
am gifted. I as a kid, everything came fairly
easy, like not everything, but most things. Okay.
Especially intellectually, math and science.
I mean, simple, right. Partied all night, straight
A's in Calc, that kind of thing. That's cool.
Didn't have to go to any of the classes, straight
A's on the test type of thing. So there's definitely
that component. Number two, born in the US, which
is by far the largest economy. Again, you can
look that up. And I was born in a state, Massachusetts,
that had no child left behind. So I got financial
aid and scholarships to go to one of the best
colleges in the world. That's extremely expensive.
I actually spoke there a couple months ago and
I wouldn't have been able to go if I was born
in a different country. that was less economically
sound. So that was not me, right? These are the
things that weren't me. I was born gifted and
I had that. The third thing, and I do believe
that this was me but not consciously, I had a
ton of self -belief. You can research. It's called
self -efficacy. There's two types of self -efficacy.
There's external self -efficacy and then there's
internal self -value. External self -efficacy
is your unconscious belief in your own ability
to figure it out and make it happen. I can build
the castle. Self -worth is different. Remember
the two worlds, real world, social world? I had
very high real -world skills and competence levels
and I feel very confident in the real world,
but socially I never felt valuable. So I had
low self -worth in the social world and very
high self -belief in the real world. which most
people are the opposite statistically. Okay.
And that's why a lot of people with low self
-worth get bullied. And that's why a lot of engineers
feel like losers because they're actually really
smart and they're calculating everything. So
they have very high confidence in the real world,
but yet no one likes them type of thing. So if
you combine all those things, what you eventually
learn is that anyone can be better tomorrow than
they are today, but not everyone will. So why
not? Most of it comes down to self belief. If
you don't believe in your own ability to build
a business, you won't even if statistically you
could. And then the second one is self worth,
meaning if you don't think you're worth it, if
you don't think you're worth it, you won't do
it. Every one of us is calculating unconsciously
whether or not it's worth it. I had to determine
whether or not it'd be worth it to come to the
show right now. Right. You had to determine whether
it was worth it to have me on. And then we both
have to believe in our abilities to show up and
show up well. And even though it's not going
to be perfect, we're going to be able to get
better. So that's the growth mindset and the
self -belief. So what I've found coaching so
many people, literally I have it tracked again,
over 7 ,000 one -on -one hour long plus coaching
sessions. I have this all tracked. You find some
people think they believe in themselves consciously,
but don't at all deep down. Like Kevin, that
dude has tons of unconscious self -belief, but
doesn't think he believes in himself. You ever
meet someone who's like, no, I don't really believe
in myself that much, but they always take action.
And then you meet the opposite. They think they
believe in themselves a ton, but they never follow
through. That's called, that's called the Lulu
delusional. Yeah. It's not in their central nervous
system. Right. So I happen to have a lot of self
belief and now I have a formula to build it.
I'll give it to you quickly. It's state proof,
self -assigned quick story. I know we got to
jump. I was in college in 2007 and there was
a website back then as freshmen in college, my
dorm Riley one side tangent. We were mining for
Bitcoin in my dorm room. We had no idea. Yeah,
okay. Just a weird nerd school, right? But anyways,
so there's this website called stumble upon dumb
as shit ever. You literally it's like webcam
roulette. You everyone in my dorm was doing it.
I thought it was stupid. But now I realize why
you basically just stumble upon other webcams
of people all over the world doing dumb things.
Yeah, right. Funny, gross, whatever. I think
unfortunately, a lot of people walk through life
that way. They stumble upon a job. They stumble
upon a career. They stumble upon a partner. They
stumble upon this friend. They stumble upon,
and unfortunately it doesn't build belief. Belief
is only built when it's premeditated. Intentional.
So I didn't just get straight A's in high school.
I decided I'm going to get straight A's in high
school and go to WPI. And then I proved to myself
I could do it. And then I self -assigned it once
I did it. But if you don't state, you're not
going to self -assign. You're just going to think
you got lucky unconsciously. So what we tell
people at Next Level U is state, prove, self
-assign. State, I'm going to the gym tomorrow
no matter what. Prove to yourself you're going
to go. Keep the promise to yourself. And then
self -assign it once you do. Now you're building
unconscious self -belief. Now what else can I
do? What else can I do? What else can I do? But
most people are just stumbling upon stuff and
they feel out of control and then they have to
inflate socially to make it seem like they're
not. So next level you is that building inside
first and then letting success be a by -product
of that. And then the last part of your question
was, well, I mean, you pretty much captured it.
It was really more about how entrepreneurs can
really fulfill or connect with fulfillment on
the inside as well as the external success. Okay.
I'll touch on that quick. So I was actually successful
and wildly unfulfilled. I mentioned that. And
then I flipped the script and went all in on
fulfillment and then eventually became successful.
I would say both are really important, but the
syntax matters. Number one is what is meaningful
work for you? It's a Venn diagram. I got to close
my eyes when I do this. All right. Three circles,
Venn diagram. You got to find the star in the
center. And I wear this star around my neck to
represent my true North. Okay. Thank you, brother.
So three circles. The first one is what are you
ridiculously good at? This is usually something
that makes other people insecure. So your relationship
with it might not be great. Okay. Number two
is what will the economy actually pay for? Right?
I love self -improvement. Really good at it.
The economy doesn't pay for it. Right? Business
coaching, they pay for it. Okay. You will not
pay me to improve yourself, but you will pay
me to help you grow your revenue. Right? Right.
And what do you have to do to grow your revenue?
Improve yourself. Right. See? Finally figured
it out. All right. So the first one is what are
you ridiculously good at that most people hate
you for? They're insecure about. The second one
is what will the economy actually pay you for?
And the third one is what's the most meaningful
work for you? It doesn't mean you always want
to do it. I don't always want to coach. There
are some days where it's like, ugh, but after
I'm done, I'm always glad I did. Yeah. Yeah.
You don't know you love something because you
always want to do it. You know you love something
or someone because you're always glad you did.
You did. Right. That. And so if you find the
center of that Venn diagram, meaningful work
the economy actually pays for. not just now but
in the future and something you're actually statistically
good at because let's be real you're competing
it's like when you buy a house it's okay you
got to check the comps okay well that one sold
for five and a half that one sold for seven and
a half okay what's this one worth six and a half
that's how the economy works everyone's like
well i'm worth a thousand bucks an hour no you're
not no you're not i can get someone doing that
same thing for seven dollars an hour therefore
you're not despite your self -worth issues right
so that center of that epicenter is if you can
build a career there you will shine And then
you'll have social challenges with people trying
to Berg off you and Berg is Baskin reflective
glory. Okay. And all that kind of social stuff.
What is that? Yeah. Baskin reflect. It's like
our team one. It's like really your our team
where you're on the field. It's that kind of
thing. So once you become successful, now you
have social issues that you're going to have
to deal with and setting healthy boundaries.
Yeah, I got you. Okay, I like that. Man, it's
so rich you have So much to share. And I can't
wait to talk to your partner as well. You have
so much to share. And I appreciate you sharing
that. And I really think that anybody that listens
to this, they will, man, a bag full of nuggets,
man, gold nuggets that they can cash into in
their lives. And how does, I know you talked
about Next Level U and Next Level University.
How does our listeners get in touch with you?
Again, thank you so much for having me. This
is awesome. Yeah, happy to do it again. Sometimes
I playfully joke with Kev because I feel like
sometimes we're, you know, those girls in a bar
like watch out for that creep because we go on
a lot of podcasts. Right. So he'll always tell
me, dude, that guy's awesome. That girl's awesome.
Right. So I'm going to tell him like 10 out of
10, this is awesome. So thank you. We do green,
yellow, red. You're green, my friend. You're
welcome. Thank you. Thank you for being a good
person who sincerely has an interest in actually
serving people and isn't trying to sell me something
on the backend. Right. Yeah. So where can you
find me? The website is next level universe .com.
The podcast is next level university, 1 % improvement,
holistic health, wealth, life and love in your
pocket from anywhere on the planet, completely
free. Anyone can get a little bit better each
day. Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram
is probably the best. And if you Google my name,
you'll definitely be able to see, you can chat
GPT or Google my name. All of this stuff will
come up. The website, we got a book club that's
free every week. We've been doing it for four
years. We have monthly meetups every month. We've
been doing that for three and a half years. We
got one coming up on Thursday. It's totally free.
We have a journal. We got all kinds of stuff.
So if you're looking to reach the next level
and you feel stuck and you want some inspiration,
motivation, and education consistently, you want
to get around people who are ignited and excited
for the future in this very doom and gloom world,
this is the place for you. If you're humble,
grateful, work ethic, you're gonna love us. Nice
sincere interest to get to the next level, you're
gonna love us. If you are entitled or arrogant
on any level and you want big rewards for minimal
effort, do not reach out under any circumstance.
That's not your world. Yeah. Listen, people,
when you watch this, you know, all this stuff
will be in the description. Somehow we'll get
it from your camp, but rewind, play, rewind,
play, because there's so much here to take away.
And you know, so much in my mind, in my heart,
in my heart and my spirit to talk about. But
we'll stick to the scripts a little bit and let
you go. And really, man, Alan. Lazarus. First
of all, your last name is awesome. Thank you
for being here. Thank you for sharing what you
had to share. And I look forward to us doing
this sometime in the future here. And as we say
around this time on this podcast, make thriving
your new normal. Thank you, Alec. Thank you so
much for having me. Thank you. Absolutely.