Everything we do is about mentoring people to
realize their strengths, lean into their self
-worth, thrive going forward, positive reinforcement,
and then help people realize their struggle.
Because people will struggle, but we have to
sort of be there with them. I want to create
more businesses or acquire more businesses. So
I want more businesses so we can create more
jobs and so that more folks can have a chance
to make. a market -based wage and provide for
their families. That's how you kind of really
have diversity in the workplace. It's like, take
your frontline workers, you groom a few up to
be your frontline supervisors, you groom a few
more up to be managers, you groom them up along
the way. And they will hold the culture strong
of what that social enterprise is about. About
four or five years ago, I finally figured out
something. Now I'm older in life, but my mantra
every day is getting up. and seeking joy. So
it's about helping the individual, working on
it today, and leading in with investment. Poor
in our society need help. Poverty rate in America
has been the same for 45 years, same narrow 12
% ban. Once you understand God loves you no matter
what, and that you're made in God's eyes, everything
else gets much easier. Hey family, this is a
Throb Word journey. Look, life's too short to
just get by. And 2025 is the year to persist.
We're here to grow. build and thrive. This podcast
is all about powerful stories, real talk, and
practical steps to help you level up in every
area of your life. Now, if that sounds like something
you need, don't just watch. Be a part of the
journey. Let us know you're here. Do us a favor.
If you're listening on the podcast platform,
download the episode. And if you're watching
on YouTube, you know what to do. Hit that like
button, subscribe, and turn on those notifications
so you never miss an episode. And as we always
say, Let's make thriving our new normal. Today,
we're thrilled to have Tom Vozo, the visionary
leader behind Homeboy Industries with us today.
From corporate executive to the driving force
of social change, Tom is here to share how radical
leadership, compassionate business practices,
and second chances can transform lives and business.
So, you know, let's just dive into it. And Tom,
how are you doing today? I'm doing wonderful,
Michael. I was off on a vacation for a couple
of days. I'm refreshed. Nice. I need one of those.
I was just talking to my producer, like we need
a vacation because working on social media and
doing this kind of stuff in addition with business,
it takes a lot. Yeah. Vacation is a must. So
I lived in Los Angeles from 2003 to 2016. In
that time, I actually started a nonprofit myself
called I Love You That Foundation. It didn't
last because I had to move and then I couldn't
find anybody to keep it going. But I remember
one time, I didn't know what it was, but I saw
I was driving down. I don't remember what street
it was, but it was like homeboy, you know, homeboy.
And it said it right on the building. I was like,
that's cool. And then a friend of mine told me
it was a nonprofit organization and You are the
leader of that organization. Can you talk about
it a little bit? Yeah, sure. So Homeboy Industries,
as you mentioned, we're based in Los Angeles.
We're a nonprofit. And really our mission is
to help gang members leave gang life behind,
leave life of crime behind, and move their life
forward in a very positive way. Started over
38 years ago, our founder, Father Greg Boyle,
a Jesuit priest. First stop as a parish priest
was in East Los Angeles at the Center of Gang
Violence in the 90s. He wanted to sort of change
that dynamic and get these young men. out of
gangs or really stop dying from the gang activity.
And it hit upon this simple notion that if you
can get them a job so they can make enough money
for the basics of food and shelter, they're going
to stop running with the gangs to make that money
for the basics of food and shelter. And that's
how we started. From there, we moved into social
enterprises. But really, the last 20 years, it's
about helping people heal from their conflicts,
trauma. And so essentially, when someone leaves
the prison system or jail system and they don't
want to go back to that gang life, they walk
through our doors and we help them and we help.
them move their life forward and with all sorts
of programs and services, but we have social
enterprise and we can talk more about that, but
essentially we're a gang rehabilitation program.
10 ,000 people come through our doors every year
for the largest gang intervention program. in
the state, which means we're the largest one
in the country, which means we're the largest
one in the world. Yeah. LA has the most gang
members than anywhere else. Yeah. Well, you know,
LA was known for, for gangs. Well, two major,
major gangs. Yeah. And did you find that some
of those gang members from, you know, The two
main ones came through the organization and short
on their lives. Yeah, no. So in fact, look, listen,
there are over 200 different gangs in Los Angeles.
Yeah. Famous ones, three famous MS -13, all that
stuff, right? But look, there's all the gangs
get really a micro level of that many gang members.
We pull from people all over the county with
downtown Los Angeles, sort of gang neutral territory.
And so the most important part of getting somebody
out of gang life is getting them out of their
neighborhood where their fellow homies are around,
trying to pull them back into that side. And
so people come to our place voluntarily. They're
not court ordered. They want to change their
life. They want to be employed. They want to
have an honest day's wage. And they want to heal.
They don't want their kids to be gang members.
So they voluntarily come and we help them. And
we help them in all sorts of ways. And it's been
a very successful program. Me as the leader,
I sort of brag on behalf of the team. We know
how to help get men and women out of gang life
and leave that behind. It's a wonderful team
and a wonderful environment. And I say, anybody
listening to this, please come visit us. at Homeboy
Industries. Yeah, it's very interesting. I never
got a chance to go to the location, even though
I wanted to. I thought it was just when I read
up on it, it was like back then, I think it was
like 2007, 2008, something like that. Um, and
I was like, man, this is amazing, you know, and
when I started, I love you that I was like, I
would like to have an organization that is as
big and as cool and as, as making such a social
impact as homeboy industries was. And so, but
that wasn't your start for you. It was a transition
and you were in corporate America, which is,
I'm sure it was probably a lucrative for you
and you transferred into. the nonprofit world.
Why did you do that? Yeah. So right. A little
bit about my background. Corporate America for
26 years. My last eight years in corporate America,
I ran a $2 billion set of businesses over those
eight years. Very popular businesses. I was a
part of a $13 billion corporation. We were a
public company, private company, public company.
So I got to be there for a few of those transactions
and it did well for myself and my family. And
I love business. And even when I do homeboy talks
all the time, I talk about homeboy. off by saying
I'm a committed capitalist. And I still believe
well -run companies are good for our society.
Sometimes it doesn't go over so well to certain
audiences to say I'm a committed capitalist.
But again, well -run companies are good for our
society. They provide jobs. They provide good
jobs for people. They can move their life forward,
right? I agree. And so, but there's even why
I had a very successful corporate career and
rose up the corporate life, right? There was
something a little bit out of balance, like shareholder
value came before a customer. When push came
to shove, customers and employees became secondary.
It kind of bothered me. Somewhere in me, I was
yearning to find, is there a way of running businesses
where employees are as important as delivering
profits and shareholder value? Because I've seen
businesses where you can kind of do both, but
somehow top. management ownership thinks about
it differently. So that was what was behind some
of my thinking. But listen, so all throughout
my corporate life, we were encouraged while our
business was national and international is to
be local. And so I was on the board of Salvation
Army of Los Angeles. And when my fellow board
member, Fran, was on that board, on the Homeboy
board, inviting me, he knew I left corporate
America retired and inviting me to the Homegirl
Cafe for lunch. Now part of Homeboy is we have
social enterprise businesses. So we employ our
folks every day and they provide purposeful activity.
And so I go into the home girl cafe and have
lunch with my friend. And I still remember this.
It's now 13 years ago. I still remember this
like it was yesterday. I'm having lunch. We're
talking and I'm looking around at the employees
and I'm seeing how they're attentive to the customer.
They're taking direction from their supervisor.
They're enjoying their own interactions. You
know, back to my for -profit life. In my last
eight years, I bought 40 companies and sold five.
You get a feeling for what companies are going
to be good combinations, shared values, and good
workforces. Just sitting there, eating lunch,
I'm seeing this is a good workforce they have
here. I'm also realizing in my for -profit role,
I would have not hired not one of those folks
because they had tattoos on their face, they
were felons, and they were gang members. And
so it kind of challenged me right then and there
that, oh, here's this hot shot business guy I
think I am. And that is a part of society I knew
nothing about, and part of the workforce I knew
nothing about. In that, at Homeboy, in the context
of a job, we're helping people dramatically move
their life forward. And so my friend asked me
to get involved. He wanted me to be a board member
and that type of thing. But I had done enough
board member, board director work. wanted to
know if my business skills could be used in a
different way. And so I started volunteering
at Homeboy. They have social enterprise businesses.
At the time, they were going through a financial
crunch. They needed a guy with some gray hair
and some experience. Some experience, yeah. And
so I volunteered and, you know, just like you
fall in love with places, good energy, people.
care, people want to move their life forward,
and it's great to be part of that community.
And listen, I thought I would do it for six months
to a year and help them out and move on and go
off and do something else. But just beautiful
environment. And here I am 12 and a half years
later, still loving homeboy and loving being
part of that community. Yeah. What was the thing
that made you stick around? I know that you said
the environment. Was there just a moment? that
said, you know what, I think I want to get more
involved into what homeboy is about. Yeah, so
it's in all our folks, it is like, like, I came
to homeboy, like a typical corporate America
guy, typical middle class guy, typical all that
stuff, right? Not really knowing what the struggles
of the poor in our society are, not really knowing
anything about gang life, not knowing anything
about being incarcerated. So I had all those
sort of stereotypes in mind. But you come to
learn at Homeboy that like all our folks are
victims of complex trauma. They got jumped into
a gang when they were young. They're second generation
gang members. Their parents jumped, their mother
jumped them into the gang. Their father, their
uncle, their cousin, you know, they've been abused
as young people. They join a gang thinking that's
going to be their family because their family's
not really protecting them anyway. False hope.
They do something bad. They go to prison. They
come out. You know, they're damaged. They need
healing. They need help. What's sort of magical
about Homeboy is we have a team of people who
help people through their trauma and help people
form positive relationships for the first time.
You walk into Homeboy, you go through our doors,
you hear laughter, you see cries. People are
authentic. They don't have to have that hard
exterior that a gang member has when they're
out on the streets. They can kind of just be
themselves. And along the way, even like a guy
like me from corporate America can actually help
them, obviously through helping running the organization
and getting us resources and doing all those
things, but just... Like Father Greg, our founding
would say, just being willing to move each of
us to go to the folks who are on the margins
of society and be in relationship with them,
not wag our finger, tell them what to do, just
be in a relationship with them, help them heal,
helps them move forward. And so people are with
us for 18 months at a time. So you can see their
growth. You can see their transformation. And
just being part of that is very endearing and
heartwarming and helpful. And it's, you know,
a little bit of God's graces are just so visible.
So that's the sort of emotional part. And then
the me being the competitive business guy part
is seeing that the people who are poor in our
study have no resources or so many challenges.
And so part of my thing was, hey, can I help
this organization grow, bring more resources
and help solve problems in a tangible way in
addition to our team helping solve problems in
an emotional way? And so it was a very interesting
job. I mean, it was very strategically, very
difficult. The hardest job I've ever had, mostly
amongst the hardest job I've ever had, but fulfillment
wise, just the best job I've ever had for sure.
Yeah. I mean, I'm sitting here and I'm moved
by the fact that you saw the possibility and
the promise, not necessarily the building, but
the people who made it, what it was and what
it is. What it is, yeah. You use your skills
as a, you know, corporate guy, bring it to the
nonprofit world. And we talk about when we're
going to talk about social. Social enterprises.
What is a social enterprise? What's the definition
of a social enterprise? Yeah. So what we do is
we run businesses. We have a bakery, we have
a cafe, we have a social community operation.
Now, we'll get to this in a minute, but we have
about 10 social enterprises. But the way Homeboy,
why we call our businesses social enterprises
is because we don't run our businesses to make
money. We run our business to provide jobs. So
we don't bake bread to hire homies. We hire homies
to bake bread. So our business model is not about
bread. Our business model is about employment
and getting people, for our folks, the first
job they've ever had, structure in their life,
teach them job skills. And so our social enterprise
was, that's the purpose. Now, when I first came
in, it was sort of, they were losing a lot of
money. It was a real struggle. And I try to get
our business managers to understand, you got
to wear two hats, you got to wear the mission
hat, and you got to wear the social enterprise
leader hat. So I said, listen, we have to run
this like a for -profit business, good product
quality, good cost of goods, control shrinkage,
good customer service. But the one line I'm not
going to hold the business manager accountable
for is the labor line. And for us, we have two
to three times as much labor as a comparable
for -profit business. But our model is about
having more employment to have more purposeful
activities so people can heal. Thankfully, we
have donors. who help us offset those losses
in the business, the labor line. So definition
of social enterprise is a business that's run
for some type of social good. For us, it's applying
employment for the people who have never been
employed before. Other business may be the green
economy, maybe environmental issues. And so you
have to be really clear what is your part of
your mission of your social enterprises. And
again, back to why we have a bakery and a cafe.
There's nothing better. How do you gang members
to not have rivalries any longer? Food. If you
can personalize, like you don't demonize somebody
in relationship with. And so there's nothing
better than going, walking into our bakery, seeing
our, going to our bread table, seeing two guys,
rival gangs, standing shoulder to shoulder, rolling
dough, making bread. Cause they know how much
bread they got to make that day. They got to
get along and they got to get it done. And that
breaks down barriers and they start forming relationships.
So they start seeing each other as people, not
as this member of this gang, member of that gang.
And that's why we have our social enterprise
is just to provide that structure. First of all,
I find that just crazy amazing when, you know,
I mean, I've never been in a gang, but you see
the world of what gangs and like, they might
not have an issue with each other, but it's because
they're in that gang set. That's right. They're
told to have an issue with the gang, right? Right,
exactly. And so to be able to experience that
and witness that and actually create that and
cultivate that culture is pretty phenomenal.
It's crazy. It's really great. And it works.
That's the amazing thing. We all grow up wanting
to know that there's goodness in everybody. And
you see that every day at Homeboy Industries,
there's goodness in everybody. And we help people
develop positive relationships for the first
time in their life with the other. And so the
social enterprise's mission -driven business,
what advice would you give to entrepreneurs that
want to do that for their business? Yeah, do
it. First of all, yes. Have a business that has
a mission. Now, listen, again, I say this as
a committed capitalist, it's okay to make money.
It's okay to have a business that makes money.
Honestly, they'll obviously stay within the rules,
but if you have a product or service someone
wants to pay you money for, you're not forcing
them to buy from you. Do it, make money, but
also take care of your employees. It sounds almost
so obvious. I hate having to say this, but I
think over the last couple of years, it's shifted.
Well -run businesses are good for their, have
good employees that will stay there for a long
time. If you can have a business that you have
not just competitive wages, but good wages, market
-based wages, and people can make their life
teams come through too. Perfect. If you're in
a business, you know, so much, or let me take
this another way. If you're... In so much of
our capital markets, our private equity -owned
businesses, privately -owned businesses, you
have to get the highest profit level out there,
or else you're considered not a good business
person. Right. But listen, I know it. As opposed
to making 12 % profit, make 10 % and have the
2 % for the employees. That 10 % is still a lot
of money for you as the owner. Think about how
you can grow a business and have people grow
along with you. And that's where the fun and
the... affirmation and the motivation takes place.
And that's, that's what if you're an entrepreneur,
come up with a great idea, but bring people along.
Look, running business is not easy. I'm not saying
it's an easy scenario. How we work with people,
everybody can afford to do with that. Yeah, it
seems like it would need to be like a mindset
shift of, you know, who you're being as an entrepreneur,
or someone who believes in capitalism, but how
does a business owner integrate the social responsibility
into, you know, a business model of not necessarily
sacrificing that possibility, that 2%, but, you
know, being okay with taking less of a profit
to build, you know, to build that kind of social
enterprise. Yeah, I mean, it comes down to your
values and it comes down to what you want to
accomplish in your life and do. Again, make money.
Go make money. I'm okay with that. I just want
to say bring people along, right? I can tell
you a story about a couple of our homie stories,
right? Please do. And this will kind of get to
the point of your question. Back to our bakery.
our homeboy bakery. We have bread routes so we
deliver bread to bakeries, to restaurants around
the city. We also have farmers markets, right?
And so we send our guys out to the farmers market
and they go out with the bread. It's a sort of
a great experience where they're talking to people
that they've never talked to, they're selling
their bread, they're taking the cash, bringing
it back in, right? All homes doing this. No outside
management watching and they just do it on their
own. One of our best farmers market guys, George.
This is early in my time a homeboy. I was walking
through the bakery management by walking around
and overheard George talking to the bakery manager
asking for the weekend off, which is a big ask.
Particularly farmers markets, that's where all
the volume is. So the manager gave him the weekend
off and then I went up to George afterwards and
chit chatting, making small talk. I say, hey,
George, what are you doing? Very light things.
He said, I'm reporting in. And I say, well, what's
that mean? He said, I'm reporting to county jail.
I said, why? And he said, well, I owe money.
And at that time in LA County, you can be born
into county jail and retire some of the debt.
Now, a little bit of a side. It's not a nutty
thing for our society. People do a crime, they
go to prison, right? They have restitution costs.
Okay. That debt piles up while they're in prison.
Are you in prison? Role costs, probation costs,
court costs. How can, how does society think
that so as they're accumulating debt while they're
in prison, they can come out and start paying
off that debt right away when they barely can
make enough money or can't even get a job to
make enough money for food and shelter. So it's
just nutty, nutty, nutty. But at that time in
LA County, you can go to report into county jail
and earn off money. So I drove home that night.
They go, that's pretty amazing that George chose
to do it the right way. Well, society wants him
to do it the right way. He didn't go to a loan
shark. He didn't go to his homeboys, ask for
the money. He didn't go sell drugs to make the
money to pay off his debt. He did it. He wanted
to do it in an honest way, right? And so he was
reporting and all week and long, I'm thinking,
oh my gosh, maybe I should just pull money out
of my pocket, help them out. And it was sort
of, you know, that was rolling in my brain. Tuesday
morning, I make a beeline to go see George. I
said, George, what happened? And I could see
the stress on his face. Well, interesting. He
was an unusual case where after he got out of
prison, within months, he was able to get custody
of his two children, 10 -year -old Nate. And
the caregiver who was supposed to watch his children
while he reported at the county jail last minute
called in and couldn't make it. He had no family
support. He didn't have his neighborhood support.
So he reported to the county jail and left his
10 -year -old and eight -year -old alone in their
apartment. for three days. What's up Thrivo Journey
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done with the spot. Let's get back to the podcast.
So imagine this as a parent leaving your child
alone in their apartment, you're incarcerated,
you can't get out, you can't make the phone call,
you can't check up, and the stress that brings.
Let me just quickly say, the kid turned out okay.
It was fine, but the stress of a parent. Right.
Now, why do I tell that story for two things?
Those of us in the rest of society, we judge,
we quickly judge, wow, he shouldn't have done
it. He should have figured another way to pay
the money. He shouldn't have sort of put his
children at risk. But I'm saying people we serve,
people who are poor in our society have impossible
choices to make every day. And the rest of us
shouldn't judge them for the choices they make.
We just need to lean in and help. So how does
this relate to your question? So if you're social,
enterprise if you're an entrepreneur and want
to hire some of the folks we hire just recognize
that they're coming to the job all these other
challenges in their life and give them some latitude
they may need an extra day off they may need
to take a payday loan from you all earlier and
they'll pay you back because they have challenges
that the rest of us can never imagine and they
do a good job at their work they want to do a
good job but sometimes they have stressors outside
whether it's a parole officer demanding something
of them, or baby mama drama, or the landlord
shutting up their power. So what am I saying?
So if you're a entrepreneur, want to help out,
hire the working poor, paying what you pay normal,
everybody else, right? But just recognize you're
going to have to give them a little bit more
latitude, and they're going to be super loyal
employees, and long term, they're going to do
a great job. Yeah, you know, that does lead into
the question I was going to ask about entrepreneurs,
small businesses, actually employing people.
giving them second chances and being okay with
that because sometimes you look at application
and have you been incarcerated or are you a felon
or whatever and then it's marked yes, some people
won't give that person a chance. What do you
say about that or how can entrepreneurs look
at that and say, you know what, let me give this
person a chance or maybe put some things in place
where they can give these people a chance. Yeah.
I would say, and hopefully this doesn't sound
like I'm contradicting myself, but first let
me say, don't even think about whether they have
a felony or not a felony. If you interview them
and you think they can do the job and you want
them to do job, give them the job. Let's not
judge somebody for the worst thing they've done
in their life, right? Right. But also know that
If you do have that knowledge of this hemorrhage
background, you're probably going to have to
give them some latitude, like I said, a couple
of more days off. The parole officer is going
to call at some point and say, you need to report
tomorrow. Oftentimes, most businesses, if you
call in a day in advance, you can't get the day
off. But parole officers are going to demand
that. So you've got to give them some type of
latitude. But don't be fearful of what the felony
was or that they've been incarcerated. If they're
showing up at your place looking for a job, they
want to do it. They do a good job. They want
to have an honest day's pay for an honest day's
work and give them that chance, for sure. Just
don't hire them because they're a felon. Hire
them because you think they can do the job. They
can do the job. Yeah. There's some innovative
ways that can be put in place to hire someone
who's been incarcerated, if I can talk today.
Yeah. Incarcerated, yeah. Well, you know, I mean,
look, in LA, for sure, the people who've been
in our Homeboy program do well. So almost like
we have good housekeeping seal of approval. If
they get through us and our businesses, then
they're ready to work, for sure. And so, if we
ever listen, there's other organizations that
do re -entry services around the country. You
know, if they've kind of spent time going through
a re -entry program, helping them get through
some of their challenges, that's an important
part of it. Sure. Mentorship with anybody who's
been incarcerated, do you have a membership?
I can't talk today. A mentorship program. Well,
you know, it's funny how you say it. Everything
we do is mentorship. You know, over time I've
worked hard. Now two thirds of our management
team are people who are former clients. So men
and women who were in the gangs, men and women
who are incarcerated, become the homeboy. They
get through our 18 month model, our program.
We hire them on as regular employees. They rise
up to different levels of management. And so
it's everything we do is about mentoring people
to realize their strengths, lean into their self
-worth, thrive going forward, positive reinforcement,
and then help people. Why is there a struggle?
Because people will struggle, but we have to
sort of be there with them along the way. So
it's a great deal of mentorship along the way.
Which I think it helps. Now, we talked about
this a little bit. You've launched several businesses,
social enterprise businesses. What's your approach
to identifying like a viable business opportunity?
Yeah. So for Homeboy, let me first say why we
want to keep launching businesses. So people
come to our Homeboy program for the most part.
They've never had a job elsewhere before they
show up at Homeboy. So they come out of prison,
we help them heal. We help them become resilient,
take on what society throws at them. And then
we try to get them a job outside of Homeboy.
And not that many family -friendly employers.
So it's always frustrated me. A lot of our guys
ended up at minimum wage jobs after Homeboy.
In L .A. County, it's hard to live on minimum
wage. And then at the same time, I've seen that
our own Homeboy businesses, I see how they've
grown. every one of the managers within our homeboy
business is our former client. So I know our
folks can do the job at all levels, frontline
supervisor, director, manager, VP, all that,
right? And so part of me then put my business
background to use and especially when I sit in
the for -profit world, I bought 40 companies
and sold five. I wanna create more businesses
or acquire more businesses. So I want more businesses
so we can create more jobs and so that more folks
can have a chance to make a market -based wage
and provide for their families. And so to your
question then, what kind of businesses would
that be? And it's funny, I'm a little bit agnostic
because I need, but I need a business that needs
physical labor, hands, feet, head, right? I can't
be an IT company, right? So I can't, so. What
we need is sort of whether it's a manufacturing
business or food service businesses. So a number
of years ago, we acquired an electronic recycling
company where, you know, in the state of California,
there's all these rules in place about how to
recycle electronic cell phones, computers. And
so we acquired that business, which is kind of
innovative before a nonprofit acquiring a for
-profit business. At the time, they're about
a half a million dollars in revenue each year.
We acquired it and now they do about three and
a half million dollars of revenue. bring on a
homeboy band and homeboy name. It's been a great
job for our folks. They can pull apart computers
and reassemble them and resell them. And so that's
a business that needs physical labor. Yeah. And
that also kind of kind of can produce a profit.
This past month, we opened up one of our newer
businesses, dog grooming. There's not enough
dog grooming spots in LA County. And it turns
out these are pretty good jobs. We're paying
our folks $21 an hour plus tips. They love grooming
dogs. They learn how to cut hair in prison. Yeah.
Yeah. And LA loves dogs. LA loves dogs, especially
small foo -foo dogs, right? Yeah, exactly. So
there's that one. And then we're thinking about
an automotive shop along the way. A few more
food businesses because we have a homegrown cafe
and bakery. We know that. So I'm looking for,
the dynamic is... with labor, needs physical
labor, so I need to employ people. And the other
thing is, I hope to find businesses that can
contract with the government. We get very little
government funds to do what we're doing. We're
mostly 90 % privately funded between donations
and business revenue. But government was willing
to contract with us. And so if I can find a business
that a third of the volume will be contracted
with the city or the county, I mean, that's what
I'm looking for as well. Now I'm hearing you.
And I keep looking at the nonprofit I started,
and it keeps popping up in my head because there
was someone who was working with me to help build
it. And everything that you're saying makes sense,
but it was so foreign to me. And she was like,
you know, it was four young men and women who
grew up in homes without fathers. And she said,
it's great to have that social thing, but you
know... just give them some jobs, you know, they
want to make some money as well. And, you know,
keep basically keep their minds going. And I
think that's just such a phenomenal thing that,
you know, like, I think that would just be a
great thing for nonprofits to really take that
take that on and look at how, you know, nonprofits
are not just, you know, take, take, take, but
there's a there's a give. in that situation as
well. We're building up people to give back to
society in a great way. I just think it's amazing.
What are the misconceptions about running a social
enterprise? Well, let me say missteps. Again,
people aren't clear about what is their mission
succinctly, that they now try to do too many
things at once, number one. Number two, A misstep
that I keep advising people to avoid, it's fine
to run a non -profit social enterprise, it's
fine to run a for -profit social enterprise.
But you have to have management in place who
knows how to run it in a for -profit way. I mean,
if you can't run it as a for -profit, you're
never going to be able to succeed long -term
running as a non -profit. You've got to have
the dynamic of understanding the cadence. It's
a cash -type business, understand money in, money
out, cost of goods, all those things that's on
a P &L along the way. And the other thing is,
And many nonprofits who do social enterprises
rely upon their mission to bring customers in.
And I kind of had to force our team saying, no,
our product needs to be as comparably as good
for the price. Because we can't rely upon people's
charity to give us business. Because we'll do
it once, but they won't come back a second time.
Right. Right. You want to kind of sort of build
those repeat customers. And then the other thing
is... a little bit off from your question, but
it's like, work to build a management team from
within. And look, that's how you kind of really
have diversity in the workplace. It's like, take
your frontline workers, you groom a few up to
be your frontline supervisors, you groom a few
more up to be managers, you groom them up along
the way. And they will hold the culture strong
of what that social enterprise is about. If you're
constantly hiring outside people, you're not
gonna get the right culture. Right, right, lose
the quality. So you have a researcher that you
guys started launching homeboy threads, right?
What impact does that have on the fashion industry
or has it impacted the fashion industry yet?
Well, we want to impact the fashion industry
a little more than a half. Oh, listen. So what
we're trying to do is Fashion brands have come
to us and said to us, listen, they got a lot
of unsold merchandise in warehouses and they
don't want to necessarily just dump that into
landfill. We said, okay, this was an outgrowth
of our recycling of electronics. Now we're going
to recycle apparel. So we said, okay, bring it
to us. We have a labor force. We've got people.
We can put them to work to deconstruct some of
the fabric or the clothing in different ways,
take the labels off and kind of repurpose that
fabric downstream. And that's the kind of the
thinking behind that business. It's been slower
at growing than we would like. Brands have sort
of given more lip service. Some brands are pretty
good at it. Other brands are going to give lip
service to it all because it's too easy for them
is to buy cheap and dump the stuff into land.
It's going to change. We think the landfills
are filling up. You can't just have 10 % of that
landfill be apparel. You should do something
different along the way. We may be ahead of the
curve here, so we'll see how it plays out, but
they've been good jobs for our folks. Yeah, I
think so. I don't know. I'm just at all. at other
things that you're doing as a non -profit with
for -profit kind of things, social enterprise.
And I just think it's amazing. What kind of leadership
qualities can an entrepreneur take on trying
to build a social enterprise? Yeah. Listen, it
sounds almost cliche. It's about empathy and
compassion. I mean, I learned this much more
now than I did in my for -profit role. In my
for -profit role, I thought I had to be command
and control and quickly making decisions. And
I can learn a homeboy, I can quickly still make
decisions, but it's about being more empathetic
and listening more and having the team buy into
the decision in a much more fuller way. And it's
a shift that entrepreneurs need to make, because
entrepreneurs are generally, they're sole practitioners
for a while, and they got everything at stake
in terms of what they're doing. So they're hard
for them to give up trust, trust issue. letting
go or delegating. I had that for a while. I wrote
a book called The Homeboy Way. What I did is
I started writing because what lessons did I
learn at Homeboy that I would take back to the
for -profit world? There's a whole bunch of stuff
in there. Also, I talk about my own spiritual
journey along the way. But this, I think, will
line up between the two for entrepreneurs. About
four or five years ago, I finally figured out
something. Now I'm older in life. But my mantra
every day is getting up and seeking joy and looking
for joy and experiencing joy. And then all my
other worries are secondary to that. And associated
with that is you find joy through others. And
so as an entrepreneur, as a business person,
it's like, OK, I wake up every day. How do I
find joy through others? How do we work at this
together and see each other? find joy. We're
committed. It's a team. We're doing the same
kind of thing. But it's about in a day checking
out how much joy that I have. What was it? And
it's in a sort of a sort of good mental checklist
all throughout the week. And because being a
guy who thought about homeboy, almost like an
entrepreneurial issue or family -run business,
it's a stressful thing. It's full throttle. You're
trying to make payroll or you're trying to keep
things alive. You're trying to move things forward.
Very stressful. When I finally shifted through
the help of our founder, Father Greg, it's about
seeking joy. And then I was like, that really
helped. What is it? It's phenomenal that you
said that because just today, like you said,
like in the entrepreneurial world and in this
bubble, it could be stressful. And there's a
vision that we want to create and a vision that
we're future that we're creating and working
for, but it doesn't always work out the way that
we see. And this morning I was like, Mike, are
you having fun? Are you still having fun? You
know? Good question. And I had to ask myself,
like, am I still having fun? And even when I
have moments when I'm not having fun, is there
still joy in what I'm building and creating?
And I had to ask myself that. And I can be like,
you know what? Yes. Because I don't see myself
doing anything else at this moment. You know,
this is, you know, this is what I live for, every
aspect of it. And I think that's, I think that's
where I have to continue to use. the questions
for myself to keep myself alive in what I'm doing.
Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to talk about the
homeboy way. What are the core principles of
the homeboy way? I know you talked about, you
know, bringing joy, but do you have corporate?
It's in the corporate world, the business world,
you sort of particularly in the bigger corporation
side, you're rule -bound, you know, you worry
about setting precedent and doing the same thing
for everybody. At Homeboy, we have our freedom.
We help the individual in front of us in the
way they need. It may not be the same tomorrow,
so you may come to me today and then you need
help, you need money for rent, because, you know,
we know your story, we know you've been trying,
but you come up short. right? Well, give me the
money. Tomorrow another guy may come and we won't
give him the money because we know his story.
We know something else. We know another situation.
So we're not worried about setting precedent,
right? And so that's pretty freeing, not worrying
about setting precedent. And so it's about the
individual, not about the whole thing. And the
other thing is about doing what's needed for
that to help that person today. And I really
mean today. In the corporate world, business
world, I did this all the time, you know, you
would be in the in the office and you'd be walking
out hall, you see a colleague, you're sitting
inside the chit chat, and as you're talking,
you still got nine things rolling through your
brain as to what else you need to work on, right?
Or someone may bring a prop to you and you realize,
okay, that's probably number four on my priority
list and you'll get to it, right? But a homeboy,
when someone needs help, you help them today.
You don't put it off. You can't do that all the
time, I get it. I know I'm sounding like I'm
making this perfect world here, but it's like,
it's a sort of a... If it's a philosophy of how
you go about life, how you go about running your
business, that permeates everything and that
makes a difference. So it's about helping the
individual, working on it today and leading in
with investment. Poor in our society need help.
Poverty rate in America has been the same for
45 years, same narrow 12 % ban. And I think what's
pretty amazing at Homeboy is we're helping people
who are very poor and incarcerated lift them
out of poverty by helping them get a job outside
of Homeboy. So if Homeboy can lift people out
of poverty, I think the corporate world can do
that. And so it's about hiring the poor and understanding
the challenges they have and providing some support
services around it. I agree. In that, there's
some compassion. So how does an entrepreneur...
with compassion drive a long term business success.
Yeah, well, they're not like I asked the question.
But one doesn't stop the other. One does not
stop the other. Whatever your product, if you're
making a product, you got to make the product
you're doing a service, you got to do the service,
you can still be compassionate with your people.
I'm not saying not hold them accountable to do
x, y and z. You have compassion how you talk
about it. If someone's falling short, you still
have compassion how you talk to them about why
they're falling short. They're falling short
because something else is happening in their
life. Or maybe they didn't understand X, Y, Z.
Very few people, I think, sort of don't do a
good job because, let me say it in a different
way, most people do a good job. And if they're
not doing a good job, they have stressors in
their life. And maybe you have the wrong person
in the wrong job also, but you still bring compassion
to every one of those conversations. And these
are a lot of, okay, so a lot of businesses, I
mean, everything is like a transaction relationship.
Sure. That's the whole key. Don't be transactional.
Right. And so how do you, yeah, how do you do
it in a transform transformational kind of way
and make a transformational impact? in your business.
Well, listen, so we have sort of a number of
years ago, I sort of had some outside, we got
a lot of volunteers to help us and some business
academics guys came along. And so we sort of
framed it this way that a homeboy, which is different
from the rest of the world, we have sort of relational
accountability, as opposed to consequential accountability.
Okay, well through XYZ, you get this. For us,
it's about building relationships with our workforce.
And because we're in that relationship, they
will do what you're asking them to do, as opposed
to say, if you don't get XYZ done. Right, right.
It's a mindset shift. Now, we don't have traditional
corporate review process where we measure people
from one to five in a different scale. We don't
believe in measuring people along the way. That
makes sense. I mean, I love Homeboy. I haven't
even been in the building, but just the way that...
You've got a great energy. Yeah, I can sense
it. I mean, I'm still having these visions of
me driving past the building. Yeah, well, drive
back to us. Yeah. You know, when I come to LA,
I'll come to visit for sure because, you know,
everything that you guys are standing for is,
it's transformational in many ways and it supports
people to do level up in their lives. And I think
that's phenomenal. And so I have a question here.
So if every business adapted one principle, from
homework industries, which would have the biggest
impact on society? Geez, only one? Well, you
can name as many as you want. I mean, tangibly,
I want to say, hire the working poor. That will
have a massive impact on society. If we have
less poor people in our society, we'll have a
massive impact. But the other one, I guess I
want to be more aspirational, recognizing that
there aren't good people and bad people in our
society. There's goodness in everybody. And look,
I love, I learned... We all learned this, but
I saw this homeboy from day one, through the
teachings of Father Greg and the other homies,
that God is too busy loving us to be judging
us. So we don't need to judge. We just don't
need to judge. And that will have a big impact.
That's a study as well. Yeah. I think judging,
it comes as being human, but I think, you know,
not doing it, it takes work, right? It takes
work. Totally takes work. it could make the world,
I mean, and we're talking about entrepreneurship
and business and social enterprise, but just
being a little bit more compassionate, just being
more understanding, just seeing the help that's
needed. Especially as an entrepreneur, reaching
out can make a difference, not in only your world,
but the other worlds that you end up touching.
Absolutely. Absolutely. So what's one piece of
advice that you can give to an entrepreneur,
aspiring entrepreneur right now that's looking
to build their business, create the business,
not just as a, like I said, transaction, but
something that's purposeful and intentional and
that can make an impact in the world. Bring people
along with you. People want to follow leaders.
They want to be part of it. You don't need to,
you don't need to put a big distance between
you and everybody else. And as your last words
here on the podcast, what story advice or anything
that you would like to say that's on your heart?
Yeah. If you allow me to do it this way. Look,
there's, um, I feel like my last 12 years at
Homeboy has been full of God's graces and seeing
people change their life because they found that
they can start loving others because they start
loving themselves and they start loving themselves
because they finally understand that God loves
them no matter what. It goes along with understanding
not to judge. Once you understand God loves you
no matter what, and now you're made in God's
eyes, everything else gets much easier, and it's
very much full of joy. And I sense that from
you, so I appreciate you, Tom, for being here.
Now, I know that, you know, you're in Los Angeles,
but how do people support or get in touch with
you, or even by your book? Yeah, great. The book
is on Amazon, The Homeboy Way. Come to Los Angeles,
for sure. We have our web presence at Homeboy,
a lot of content on our Facebook page. We have
so many of our folks talk about their stories
and their voice and their authentic voice. And,
you know, there's a lot of stuff out there about
us. Come read it. Father Greg has four books
as well, beautifully written books. And, you
know, there's a lot to be said. Nice. Thank you.
I mean, the impact that, uh, that you guys are
doing, like I said it before, but it's, it's
amazing. It's astounding. And, you know, uh,
if there's other people who are watching that
are looking to, you know, start a nonprofit,
you know, this is a good way. Hey, they, they
have, you know, they have a method here. Yeah.
So for all the listeners and watchers, you know
what to do. Go to Facebook, go to The Thrive
World Journey if you want to see clips and other
information. And as we always say, make thriving
your new normal. Tom, thank you again. Thank
you very much.