WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.500 To me, motivation is the path is already set. 00:00:02.759 --> 00:00:05.120 I just need to keep going down the path. Inspiration 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:06.960 is I didn't know there was a path. You've just 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:09.640 opened my eyes. There's a path. Here are three 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:13.259 questions you can ask. Number one, who do we 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:16.239 serve? The second question you can ask is what 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:20.780 job is our product or service hired to do? The 00:00:20.780 --> 00:00:24.239 third question that you can ask is of each staff 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:26.179 member is how do you make a difference here? 00:00:26.269 --> 00:00:28.469 And there's that certain anxiety that's all of 00:00:28.469 --> 00:00:31.789 a sudden created in you. But I know it now, and 00:00:31.789 --> 00:00:34.170 so I can let that dissipate. A little bit like 00:00:34.170 --> 00:00:36.090 getting on stage, even though I've done it so 00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:38.670 many times, every time I still got to do it, 00:00:38.710 --> 00:00:41.630 I still feel that activation for a few hours. 00:00:41.990 --> 00:00:45.070 What I would say to that person is, well, you 00:00:45.070 --> 00:00:47.469 have to figure out that if it's just your fear 00:00:47.469 --> 00:00:50.270 that's holding you back, then your fear will 00:00:50.270 --> 00:00:52.450 still hold you back five years from now. I went 00:00:52.450 --> 00:00:54.880 to college and I sat in the first day of this 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.140 one class and the professor said, part of your 00:00:57.140 --> 00:00:58.840 grade, everyone's going to get up front and do 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:01.439 a presentation. I was like, heck no, not me. 00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:04.280 I dropped the class. And at the end, when I got 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:06.319 done, people started to come up to me and said, 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:09.189 Hey, You need to do that more often. Hey, family. 00:01:09.390 --> 00:01:12.530 This is a Thriveware journey. Look, life's too 00:01:12.530 --> 00:01:15.829 short to just get by and 2025 is the year to 00:01:15.829 --> 00:01:18.870 persist. We're here to grow, build and thrive. 00:01:19.069 --> 00:01:21.790 This podcast is all about powerful stories, real 00:01:21.790 --> 00:01:24.090 talk and practical steps to help you level up 00:01:24.090 --> 00:01:26.329 in every area of your life. Now, if that sounds 00:01:26.329 --> 00:01:29.670 like something you need, don't just watch. Be 00:01:29.670 --> 00:01:31.730 a part of the journey. Let us know you're here. 00:01:31.969 --> 00:01:34.569 Do us a favor. If you're listening on the podcast 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:36.900 platform, download the episode and if you're 00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:39.280 watching on YouTube, you know what to do. Hit 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.900 that like button, subscribe and turn on those 00:01:41.900 --> 00:01:45.359 notifications so you never miss an episode. And 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:50.260 as we always say, let's make thriving our new 00:01:50.260 --> 00:02:08.370 norm. Hey, today I'm joined by James Robbins. 00:02:08.490 --> 00:02:11.889 He has over 20 years of experience. James has 00:02:11.889 --> 00:02:14.909 helped entrepreneurs and leaders align with purpose 00:02:14.909 --> 00:02:17.870 and action, build resilient teams, and drive 00:02:17.870 --> 00:02:20.069 sustainable business growth. He's a best -selling 00:02:20.069 --> 00:02:22.770 author, award -winning speaker, and an adventurer 00:02:22.770 --> 00:02:25.409 at heart. What I'm seeing is he climbed mountains 00:02:25.409 --> 00:02:27.370 and inspired audiences around the world, which 00:02:27.370 --> 00:02:31.050 is cool. He has a book, Nine Minutes on Monday, 00:02:31.370 --> 00:02:34.009 which was named Business Book of the Year. and 00:02:34.009 --> 00:02:36.990 he has an upcoming book, The Call to Climb, which 00:02:36.990 --> 00:02:39.650 is set to hit shelves this year. And James is 00:02:39.650 --> 00:02:42.330 here on our show. And we had a little conversation 00:02:42.330 --> 00:02:45.090 before we started. But you know, James, let the 00:02:45.090 --> 00:02:48.409 world know how you're doing. Michael, great to 00:02:48.409 --> 00:02:50.310 great to meet you. Thanks for having me on your 00:02:50.310 --> 00:02:52.830 show. Always, always good to meet new people. 00:02:53.349 --> 00:02:58.330 Yes, you know, we were talking and you, you live 00:02:58.330 --> 00:03:01.000 in the mountain area, right? And you grew up 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:02.979 from my research here, you grew up on a cattle 00:03:02.979 --> 00:03:06.060 ranch in the Rocky Mountains. How how was that 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:08.280 that life? I think I had the best upbringing 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.139 because my father grew up on a farm and then 00:03:12.139 --> 00:03:15.500 just he thought I need to get an education so 00:03:15.500 --> 00:03:18.039 I don't become a farmer. So he went did that 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:20.699 but then he wanted to raise his kids on on a 00:03:20.699 --> 00:03:23.560 farm. And so even though he was in the professional 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.000 world, he was still a rancher on the weekends 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.780 and evenings. So I got a chance to grow up on 00:03:29.780 --> 00:03:33.199 a cattle ranch, but it wasn't so big like some 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.379 of my friends that I grew up with where they 00:03:35.379 --> 00:03:38.340 worked really hard like chores all weekend. And, 00:03:38.340 --> 00:03:41.379 you know, I had minimal work to do. But, you 00:03:41.379 --> 00:03:43.020 know, got to grow up around animals, grow up 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:46.340 in the country. It was fantastic. Yes, I think 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:49.800 growing up. we would visit ranches and farms 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:52.780 in Michigan. But, you know, it was nothing that 00:03:52.780 --> 00:03:56.840 I would see myself wanting because it doesn't 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:58.719 look like a lot of work. You know, I'm here and 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:00.979 you got to wake up at six o 'clock in the morning 00:04:00.979 --> 00:04:03.020 or whatever clock in the morning to get your 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:05.159 chores done, get work done before you can go 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:08.500 to school, you know, at a young age. But I know 00:04:08.500 --> 00:04:11.180 you lived on the ranch. So did you get lessons 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:16.470 from living on the ranch? For sure. I think There's 00:04:16.470 --> 00:04:19.410 just a certain way that people think that are 00:04:19.410 --> 00:04:21.629 in the rural communities. I think even today 00:04:21.629 --> 00:04:24.110 this would still hold true. There's a simplicity 00:04:24.110 --> 00:04:27.670 to life and there's a common sense to life. It 00:04:27.670 --> 00:04:30.430 doesn't get too complicated. And I think that 00:04:30.430 --> 00:04:33.250 shaped my view as well. One of the things I'm 00:04:33.250 --> 00:04:36.089 known for is taking complex things and just making 00:04:36.089 --> 00:04:38.899 them simple. And I think I think probably that 00:04:38.899 --> 00:04:40.939 was rooted from where I grew up, right? Just 00:04:40.939 --> 00:04:43.800 keep things simple, water runs downhill. It's 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.100 just like some simple rules that that you live 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:49.879 by. Yeah, simply simplicity is the best way to 00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:52.360 do things. I think I mean, you know, there's 00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:56.339 complexity in many things. And I think when you 00:04:56.339 --> 00:04:58.860 make things too complex, you know, people just 00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:00.819 kind of, you know, tune out and it's like, you 00:05:00.819 --> 00:05:03.819 know, good, just keep things simple. What are 00:05:03.819 --> 00:05:06.019 the we're going to talk about leadership leadership 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:09.199 a little bit. Did you get lessons of leadership 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.279 as you're growing up on that wrench? I did, but 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.819 not like they were told to me that these are 00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:17.360 lessons in leadership. It was more that, you 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:19.639 know, later looking back, you can see the principles, 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.339 whether that's discipline or consistency. You 00:05:22.339 --> 00:05:25.379 know, Michael, as I say all the time, like leadership 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:27.459 isn't easy. At the same time, it doesn't have 00:05:27.459 --> 00:05:29.899 to be complicated. I think most things in life 00:05:29.899 --> 00:05:32.160 are like that. They're not easy, but that's not 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:33.899 complicated. And leadership at the end of the 00:05:33.899 --> 00:05:37.569 day is how do I produce results? through a group 00:05:37.569 --> 00:05:40.689 of people in a way that they enjoy the ride. 00:05:40.689 --> 00:05:43.410 Yeah. And so there's the there's the process 00:05:43.410 --> 00:05:45.129 side of that. And there's the people side of 00:05:45.129 --> 00:05:48.310 that. And, and both of them have, you know, both 00:05:48.310 --> 00:05:50.170 of them have some principles that you've just 00:05:50.170 --> 00:05:52.709 got to, you got to tap into, in your experience, 00:05:53.290 --> 00:05:55.589 what separates a good leader from a great leader, 00:05:55.790 --> 00:05:58.350 good leader from a great leader, good leaders 00:05:58.350 --> 00:06:04.209 will definitely get the job done. And They will 00:06:04.209 --> 00:06:06.689 motivate their teams, you know, all those things 00:06:06.689 --> 00:06:09.430 that we know, but great leaders are able to get 00:06:09.430 --> 00:06:12.930 people to have an internal source of motivation. 00:06:13.089 --> 00:06:15.129 So in other words, if we, if motivation exists 00:06:15.129 --> 00:06:18.009 on a scale, right on the far side, we've got 00:06:18.009 --> 00:06:20.589 this highly controlled external motivation, kind 00:06:20.589 --> 00:06:22.730 of like this is the bear chasing you in the woods. 00:06:22.930 --> 00:06:25.910 Like you've got to run. That's like, I have to 00:06:25.910 --> 00:06:28.569 do it. Bad leaders will motivate from there. 00:06:28.910 --> 00:06:31.050 Good leaders will come to a place where they'll 00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:33.649 get people to want to do it right because there's 00:06:33.649 --> 00:06:36.550 some kind of reward uh or perk but the great 00:06:36.550 --> 00:06:39.889 leaders are able to shift how people see the 00:06:39.889 --> 00:06:43.370 job in front of them so that internally they 00:06:43.370 --> 00:06:45.730 want to do it and that's when people have that 00:06:45.730 --> 00:06:48.990 intrinsic motivation that's when they are produce 00:06:48.990 --> 00:06:51.269 the best work put the most of their heart and 00:06:51.269 --> 00:06:54.370 passion in there persist through obstacles more 00:06:54.370 --> 00:06:57.029 they're more creative tons of research on extrinsic 00:06:57.029 --> 00:07:01.399 motivation so great leaders are able to get get 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:04.879 their people to be self motivated. Yeah, I mean, 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:08.540 oftentimes, we have guests on the show, and they 00:07:08.540 --> 00:07:11.180 talk about inspiration versus motivation. You 00:07:11.180 --> 00:07:13.180 know, what's your take on that? Inspiration to 00:07:13.180 --> 00:07:17.339 me is a very important piece of the puzzle. Inspiration 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:20.220 is when you think about it, inspiration is helping 00:07:20.220 --> 00:07:23.720 people open their eyes to possibility, right? 00:07:23.740 --> 00:07:26.519 When I see that, let's say I'm discouraged, and 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:28.540 then a leader comes in and says, Hey, James, 00:07:28.699 --> 00:07:31.189 like, What's going on? Like you have so much 00:07:31.189 --> 00:07:33.430 talent. You could do this. You could do that. 00:07:33.589 --> 00:07:35.310 And all of a sudden I open my eyes and I see 00:07:35.310 --> 00:07:37.389 it and I believe it. That's inspiration because 00:07:37.389 --> 00:07:40.029 what's happened is now I see there's possibility 00:07:40.029 --> 00:07:43.069 and that inspires me, you know, creates hope 00:07:43.069 --> 00:07:47.970 that creates action. Motivation is to me more 00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:50.949 that, okay, I know what I need to do. I'm just 00:07:50.949 --> 00:07:54.250 beginning to lose power. And so. If you're going 00:07:54.250 --> 00:07:56.410 to help me be motivated again, there's a lot 00:07:56.410 --> 00:07:58.050 of different techniques that we would use to 00:07:58.050 --> 00:08:00.790 help someone get motivated. But it's to me, motivation 00:08:00.790 --> 00:08:03.269 is the path is already set. I just need to keep 00:08:03.269 --> 00:08:05.649 going down the path. Inspiration is I didn't 00:08:05.649 --> 00:08:07.250 know there was a path. You've just opened my 00:08:07.250 --> 00:08:09.949 eyes. There's a path. So we took it to, we talked 00:08:09.949 --> 00:08:12.709 to a lot of, you know, aspiring entrepreneurs, 00:08:13.329 --> 00:08:15.949 business. beginning business owners, or people 00:08:15.949 --> 00:08:19.149 that have the idea of wanting to be an entrepreneur. 00:08:19.370 --> 00:08:21.870 If you're thinking about doing it, but don't 00:08:21.870 --> 00:08:24.870 take the steps, what would you say to that person 00:08:24.870 --> 00:08:28.470 that is kind of scared to step into that world? 00:08:28.790 --> 00:08:30.629 Do you mean the person who's thinking of starting 00:08:30.629 --> 00:08:33.009 a business and they've been dragging their feet? 00:08:33.370 --> 00:08:37.230 Yes. Yes. Thank you. For sure. Listen, I think 00:08:37.230 --> 00:08:38.950 starting a business is one of the best things 00:08:38.950 --> 00:08:41.799 you can do. For anybody even if it's just a side 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.179 hustle because you will learn so much not just 00:08:44.179 --> 00:08:46.179 about business Honestly, you learn so much about 00:08:46.179 --> 00:08:49.600 yourself. Mm -hmm like had I not started my own 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.799 business and I just continued to work in the 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:54.259 Organizations I was in yeah for sure. There's 00:08:54.259 --> 00:08:56.299 some perks and benefits there, but I would have 00:08:56.299 --> 00:08:59.279 missed out on the personal growth so what I would 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:02.500 say to that person is Well, you have to figure 00:09:02.500 --> 00:09:05.240 out that if it's just your fear that's holding 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:08.639 you back then your fear will still hold you back 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:10.860 five years from now and will hold you back 10 00:09:10.860 --> 00:09:12.940 years from now. In other words, there's never 00:09:12.940 --> 00:09:16.039 a time that I know where it's just easy to start 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:19.639 a business. And what I've learned is that starting 00:09:19.639 --> 00:09:23.860 a business is really about betting on yourself. 00:09:24.100 --> 00:09:26.659 Yeah, it's going all in on you. So you can do 00:09:26.659 --> 00:09:28.419 all the market analysis and you can do all those 00:09:28.419 --> 00:09:30.679 good things you need to do. But at the end of 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.299 the day, you have to say, do I believe in me? 00:09:33.539 --> 00:09:36.529 Am I going to bet on me so that When I do this, 00:09:36.690 --> 00:09:39.169 I'm committing, you know, it's Michael's not 00:09:39.169 --> 00:09:42.029 unlike getting married, right? When you get married, 00:09:42.490 --> 00:09:44.789 you don't know what you're doing, right? Or when 00:09:44.789 --> 00:09:47.330 you decide to have children, you don't know what 00:09:47.330 --> 00:09:49.429 you're doing, but you just make this commitment. 00:09:49.629 --> 00:09:51.389 All right. I'm going to, I'm going to be a father 00:09:51.389 --> 00:09:55.049 and I'll figure it out because I have no choice. 00:09:55.490 --> 00:09:57.490 So it's almost like putting yourself in that. 00:09:57.809 --> 00:10:00.289 In that setting. It's like, well, I will figure 00:10:00.289 --> 00:10:02.649 it out and I will believe in me and people who 00:10:02.649 --> 00:10:05.370 can do that will be successful. Yeah, I like 00:10:05.370 --> 00:10:06.950 what you said, like better knowing yourself. 00:10:07.110 --> 00:10:09.250 A lot of people have the self doubt though, right? 00:10:09.450 --> 00:10:11.889 They have the self doubt that I can't do, you 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:15.230 know, or they don't have a complete plan. But 00:10:15.230 --> 00:10:18.370 you said a nice phrase, which is bet on yourself. 00:10:18.610 --> 00:10:20.190 And that's what we should do anyway, even if 00:10:20.190 --> 00:10:22.309 we're not, you know, thinking about entrepreneurship, 00:10:22.590 --> 00:10:25.230 like if you just want, you know, to work within 00:10:25.230 --> 00:10:27.730 an organization, still bet on yourself. It's 00:10:27.730 --> 00:10:29.909 probably the best way to live your life, right? 00:10:30.149 --> 00:10:34.080 All in on you for sure. Yeah. What's a common 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:36.360 mistake that, you know, we're talking about leadership? 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:40.080 What's a common mistake that leaders make? If 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:42.039 they have a team, and we're going to transition 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:43.600 into small business in a little bit, if they 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.879 have a small team, what are the common mistakes 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.179 that leaders make? One of the common mistakes 00:10:49.179 --> 00:10:52.720 is that leaders see the territory different than 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.600 their team sees it. So if we want to be more 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:58.269 specific and talk about entrepreneurs, anyone 00:10:58.269 --> 00:11:00.750 listening who is a business owner or an entrepreneur, 00:11:01.110 --> 00:11:04.470 you started your business for a particular reason. 00:11:04.830 --> 00:11:07.269 And now it might be very altruistic, like you 00:11:07.269 --> 00:11:09.350 saw this need and you really want to help people 00:11:09.350 --> 00:11:12.610 out. But if honestly, most business owners, if 00:11:12.610 --> 00:11:14.870 they're really honest, that's part of the reason, 00:11:14.870 --> 00:11:16.710 but they usually start a business because, hey, 00:11:16.710 --> 00:11:18.649 I don't want to work for someone else anymore. 00:11:18.850 --> 00:11:21.769 I want to have my own freedom. I want to be able 00:11:21.769 --> 00:11:23.889 to take vacation when I want to take it. I've 00:11:23.889 --> 00:11:26.360 always wanted to do something different. So Those 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.279 are all your reasons, right? It's that purpose 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.940 that drives you, but that purpose is not transferable 00:11:31.940 --> 00:11:34.600 to the people that you're going to hire because 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.580 that's not motivating. Oh, I'm working for this 00:11:37.580 --> 00:11:39.320 company so that my boss doesn't have to have 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:42.200 a job. So what you have to do as a leader is 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:45.200 you have to translate purpose down to every level, 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:48.259 right? So even if your purpose is still, Hey, 00:11:48.259 --> 00:11:49.740 I just don't want to work for anyone else. I 00:11:49.740 --> 00:11:51.639 want to be in control of my own world. Hey, that's 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:54.840 totally fine. But then for the next level down, 00:11:55.019 --> 00:11:57.840 What are you calling them to be a part of? Because 00:11:57.840 --> 00:11:59.820 when you hire someone, especially into a small 00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:02.000 team, you want to hire them into a movement, 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:04.820 hire them into a cause, hire them into a challenge, 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:06.940 like, hey, here's what we're building. Here's 00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:08.779 what we're going after. Here's what we're doing 00:12:08.779 --> 00:12:12.399 so that they can be part of that, not just fill 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.559 a job description. And that's one of the mistakes 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.279 that especially small business owners make, I 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:20.679 got to fill this position, who's going to do 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.019 the job? How does one do that? How does one tap 00:12:24.019 --> 00:12:28.600 into that? that that world of, you know, connecting 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.639 their purpose or their why to their team? Yeah, 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:34.080 that's a great question. So for those of you 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:36.860 who are, are business owners, or even if you're 00:12:36.860 --> 00:12:40.120 leading in a company, here are three questions 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:43.779 you can ask of yourself that helps clarify the 00:12:43.779 --> 00:12:47.179 answer. Number one, who do we serve? So at the 00:12:47.179 --> 00:12:49.940 end of the day, you don't serve clients, that's 00:12:49.940 --> 00:12:53.000 not motivating. You serve some sort of need in 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.879 the market, you serve moms, you serve families, 00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:59.200 you serve business owners who are stressed out. 00:12:59.460 --> 00:13:02.000 It's almost like you take a page from your marketing, 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.039 the very same thing you use to get people to 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:07.720 buy your services, and you help your staff see 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.080 this is who we serve. The second question you 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:15.620 can ask is what job is our product or service 00:13:15.620 --> 00:13:18.899 hired to do, right? So everyone has a product 00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:21.620 or service, or maybe you have both, but At the 00:13:21.620 --> 00:13:23.639 end of the day, nobody really wants your product 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:26.240 or service. They are wanting it for some reason. 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.279 So I'll give you an example. I was working with 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.940 a small business owner. She had a day spa, but 00:13:31.940 --> 00:13:35.879 their prime revenue driver was cosmetic sales. 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:39.960 But what she found was that her sales team, they 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.139 were not pushing sales. They were not upselling. 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.899 So how they, how they had it, people, women would 00:13:44.899 --> 00:13:47.379 come in, they would get a make a free makeover. 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:50.940 And then the women. uh, the employees were supposed 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:54.679 to upsell them more makeup. And so I said, okay, 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:57.919 well, you know, what job is your product hired 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:01.240 to do like cosmetics? Basically, why do women 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.539 buy cosmetics? They told me, well, they buy them 00:14:04.539 --> 00:14:06.720 to feel beautiful and to look beautiful. I'm 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.480 like, yeah. So, so think about this for a moment. 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.360 Those, I don't know the name of the beauticians 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:14.799 or whatever you call the women who do the makeovers. 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:16.860 I said, so you're telling me they get to come 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:19.500 in every day and their job is I get to make women 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:22.259 feel beautiful. That's actually a great job. 00:14:22.899 --> 00:14:25.759 And if I really believe that's what I'm doing, 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:27.639 and I believe in the company and the products, 00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:30.700 then the upsell isn't a isn't a sale anymore. 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:32.980 It's just it's a it comes from a different place, 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.279 a place of service. And so sometimes it's getting 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.159 people to think differently about the job. So 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.289 we got We got them to start thinking like that, 00:14:41.309 --> 00:14:44.389 and within a week, a woman came in, got a makeover, 00:14:44.470 --> 00:14:48.169 she went to pay, and she said to the receptionist, 00:14:48.169 --> 00:14:50.909 she said, I just feel so confident, and I said, 00:14:50.950 --> 00:14:52.649 hey, you gotta take that sound bite, you gotta 00:14:52.649 --> 00:14:56.389 take that back and remind your salespeople, this 00:14:56.389 --> 00:14:58.970 is what we do, right? What job is our product 00:14:58.970 --> 00:15:03.190 hired to do? So it's our job as leaders to remind 00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:05.610 people, and I have to do it in my company as 00:15:05.610 --> 00:15:09.110 well, right? Like, I'll have a... maybe go out 00:15:09.110 --> 00:15:11.490 and maybe teach a workshop to a company. And 00:15:11.490 --> 00:15:13.950 then they might say afterwards like, Hey, this 00:15:13.950 --> 00:15:16.769 really helped us XYZ. Well, that's nice feedback 00:15:16.769 --> 00:15:19.590 for me. And then I know I'm making a difference. 00:15:19.950 --> 00:15:22.610 Well, my staff don't know that. Meanwhile, they're 00:15:22.610 --> 00:15:25.330 editing videos, you know, filling out stuff, 00:15:25.889 --> 00:15:28.169 customer service. So I've got to take some of 00:15:28.169 --> 00:15:30.350 that back and give it to them. Hey, just reminder, 00:15:30.509 --> 00:15:33.450 this is the bigger picture. And the third question. 00:15:33.769 --> 00:15:37.389 that you can ask is of each staff member is is 00:15:37.389 --> 00:15:39.470 how how do you make a difference here? Well, 00:15:39.470 --> 00:15:41.809 you're not asking them that you are letting them 00:15:41.809 --> 00:15:44.149 know here's how you make a difference. Right? 00:15:44.529 --> 00:15:46.610 That way people feel that sense of purpose and 00:15:46.610 --> 00:15:49.269 significance. Those are great questions are three 00:15:49.269 --> 00:15:52.809 questions. And you were you talk about helping 00:15:52.809 --> 00:15:54.990 people reach their highest potential. Things 00:15:54.990 --> 00:15:57.250 kind of connects. How do you What's the first 00:15:57.250 --> 00:15:59.129 I've been doing that the first thing in doing 00:15:59.129 --> 00:16:01.990 that is to get clear on what they really want. 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:04.250 not what they think they're supposed to want, 00:16:04.669 --> 00:16:06.470 not what they think their parents want them to 00:16:06.470 --> 00:16:09.610 want, or their church, or their spouse, or their 00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:12.690 community. What do you want? I believe that everyone, 00:16:13.269 --> 00:16:15.070 so it's my belief that everyone has an inner 00:16:15.070 --> 00:16:16.929 life, everyone has a soul, if you want to use 00:16:16.929 --> 00:16:20.049 that word, psyche, soul, and I believe everyone's 00:16:20.049 --> 00:16:23.149 purpose in life is to be the the highest version 00:16:23.149 --> 00:16:25.669 of themselves. A little bit like the seed of 00:16:25.669 --> 00:16:27.990 an oak tree, its purpose is just to become that 00:16:27.990 --> 00:16:30.309 oak tree. Now the oak tree will do many things, 00:16:30.509 --> 00:16:33.799 right? It's going to create shade, and a home 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.559 for animals. But it does those things because 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:41.100 of who it is. And I think number one is people 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:43.440 better get it clear of what they want. And then 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.279 number two is understand that their purpose isn't 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:48.340 even to go after those things. Their purpose 00:16:48.340 --> 00:16:50.620 is just to bring that highest version of themselves 00:16:50.620 --> 00:16:53.700 to the world. And then as they begin to pursue 00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:57.360 what they want in that authentic place, they're 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.259 going to run into resistance. And that's all 00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:01.559 the programming that we have from our little 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:06.420 life. And it's beginning to get intentional about 00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:10.079 seeing what those programs are and making a decision 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:13.240 that I'm not going to live on autopilot. I'm 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:17.079 going to make a different decision. And so it's 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.759 hard work, but that to me is the path of high 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:24.220 performance personally. I love that. And that 00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:26.619 I'm going to veer away from, we're going to get 00:17:26.619 --> 00:17:30.420 there in a minute, but you talked about, which 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:32.700 I think is great, first of all. your inner life, 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.680 your soul, and connecting to your purpose. In 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:39.920 that, you get obstacles, right? And sometimes 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.980 we question what our purpose is in connection 00:17:42.980 --> 00:17:46.720 with what our business is. How does one overcome 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:51.799 that or reconnect if they get disconnected, reconnect 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.910 with what that is for them? Made this mistake 00:17:54.910 --> 00:17:57.710 so many times in that I was always searching 00:17:57.710 --> 00:18:00.049 for what am I supposed to do with my life? It's 00:18:00.049 --> 00:18:02.329 like this really heavy question, you know, am 00:18:02.329 --> 00:18:04.509 I what I'm doing now? Is this what I'm supposed 00:18:04.509 --> 00:18:07.250 to be doing with my life, right? So it's it's 00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:10.390 not a bad question It's only a bad question if 00:18:10.390 --> 00:18:12.450 you think that there's only one thing you're 00:18:12.450 --> 00:18:14.990 supposed to be doing and you find that thing, 00:18:15.089 --> 00:18:17.730 right? It's like yeah, it's like the soulmate. 00:18:17.869 --> 00:18:19.910 I've got to find my soulmate. There's three and 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:23.829 a half billion, you know of the opposite sex 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:28.049 out there, and I've got to find the one. So to 00:18:28.049 --> 00:18:32.430 me, again, purpose comes back to, well, what's 00:18:32.430 --> 00:18:35.509 the version of you that needs to be here in the 00:18:35.509 --> 00:18:37.650 world? Right? What's the version of you as a 00:18:37.650 --> 00:18:40.430 father, as a mother, as a friend, as an employee, 00:18:40.509 --> 00:18:44.130 as a boss? What's that version of you? OK, now, 00:18:44.130 --> 00:18:46.250 once you get clear on that, there's probably 00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:49.029 a thousand different mountains you can climb. 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.400 And to me, this is the exciting part of life 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:54.619 is that, OK, you're going to you're going to 00:18:54.619 --> 00:18:56.440 start this business for a while. But maybe five 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.039 years from now, you're going to go, I don't really 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.299 feel passionate about this anymore. And some 00:19:02.299 --> 00:19:04.619 people then think, well, then I obviously chose 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:07.440 the wrong path. But you can't really it's hard 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.759 to make that judgment because maybe it was the 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:11.900 right path for that period of time. And now you're 00:19:11.900 --> 00:19:14.319 going to do something different. And that's that's 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:19.549 cool also. So to me, following your passion is 00:19:19.549 --> 00:19:22.769 going to be at times messy and you're not going 00:19:22.769 --> 00:19:25.789 to get it right. But you what you do want to 00:19:25.789 --> 00:19:28.829 get right is the authenticity that okay, here, 00:19:29.049 --> 00:19:31.109 this is what I'm going to do. For some people, 00:19:31.490 --> 00:19:33.710 their highest thing is maybe I'm just going to 00:19:33.710 --> 00:19:36.930 be a provider. So maybe it doesn't matter what 00:19:36.930 --> 00:19:39.789 job I take, as long as I can provide for my family. 00:19:39.890 --> 00:19:42.009 That's the number one thing and I will feel good, 00:19:42.269 --> 00:19:46.269 good about that. Yeah. What's you talked about 00:19:46.269 --> 00:19:48.809 authenticity in connection with your purpose? 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:53.359 And that's more intangible. How can you take 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:56.700 that intangibility, if that's a word, to something 00:19:56.700 --> 00:20:01.440 tangible like a habit and keep that habit aligned 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:05.079 with your purpose in your business? As I see 00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:08.400 it, everything in our life is the result of our 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:12.720 patterns and habits. And, you know, the very, 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.619 the very concept of habit means that it's become, 00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:19.769 in a sense, automated. It's become on its own, 00:20:19.890 --> 00:20:23.630 right? But then most of the habits that we have 00:20:23.630 --> 00:20:25.630 are below the surface that we don't even realize 00:20:25.630 --> 00:20:29.230 that they are there. So to me, it begins with, 00:20:29.230 --> 00:20:31.390 you know, kind of back to getting clear on what 00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:33.690 you want and starting to go down that path. But 00:20:33.690 --> 00:20:37.029 then as you run into resistance, that's the opportunity 00:20:37.029 --> 00:20:39.089 for growth. Because when you run into resistance, 00:20:39.170 --> 00:20:41.210 what you're really running into is a habit. So 00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:43.049 if we want to talk on it, you know, as you said 00:20:43.049 --> 00:20:47.210 about tangible habits, well, The business owner 00:20:47.210 --> 00:20:52.109 who is constantly distracting him or herself 00:20:52.109 --> 00:20:55.289 with redesigning their logo, changing their website 00:20:55.289 --> 00:20:58.009 again, all so they can avoid picking up the phone 00:20:58.009 --> 00:21:00.170 and getting on a sales call because they might 00:21:00.170 --> 00:21:03.210 get rejected, that often happens subconsciously. 00:21:03.309 --> 00:21:05.410 So until you start to take a look and you realize, 00:21:05.529 --> 00:21:08.369 wait a minute, I should be picking up the phone 00:21:08.369 --> 00:21:11.789 and making 30 calls before noon. Why am I not 00:21:11.789 --> 00:21:14.099 doing that? Yeah. And when you're really honest 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:16.119 in a non -judgmental way, it's like, well, because 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.640 I don't want to do that. I would rather redesign 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:21.680 my website and call my friend. Well, now you're, 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:24.319 now you're getting tangible. Like, okay, so there's 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:26.619 the, you found the habit. You stumbled on it. 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:29.660 The habit is a habit of avoidance. Now what do 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:31.619 you want to do? Do you want to create a new habit? 00:21:31.700 --> 00:21:35.240 And if you do, okay, let's, let's begin to set 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.079 some new goals. All right. I'm going to, I'm 00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:41.000 going to make 30 calls before noon. And as I 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.900 have that. resistance, great, I'll, I'll deal 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.299 with it, but I'll keep going. And eventually 00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:52.880 you create a new habit. Yeah. It's like, you 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:55.619 have to disrupt some of those things that, that 00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:58.559 are under that. I mean, they're apparent, but 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:00.859 they're under the surface that we don't necessarily 00:22:00.859 --> 00:22:04.720 see or call out on ourselves as not just entrepreneurs, 00:22:04.779 --> 00:22:08.599 but as human beings period. Well, sure. You know, 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:11.779 and I speak about the the sales thing. I speak 00:22:11.779 --> 00:22:15.720 about that because I know that I am that person. 00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:19.900 What's up Thrivo Journey listeners and watchers. 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.339 Look, if you're someone with big dreams of entrepreneurship, 00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:26.200 but need a flexible way to earn income while 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:28.640 building your business, let me tell you about 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.420 the Oriens Group. Through our partnership with 00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:35.000 Arise Virtual Solutions, you can become a customer 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.210 support professional, aka CSP and start earning 00:22:39.210 --> 00:22:43.369 from home on your own terms. Arise offers a streamlined 00:22:43.369 --> 00:22:45.809 certification process, getting you trained and 00:22:45.809 --> 00:22:48.670 ready to work with well -known brands all across 00:22:48.670 --> 00:22:51.730 America. 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You interested? 00:23:22.109 --> 00:23:25.829 If so, head over to www .TheOrientsGroup .com 00:23:25.829 --> 00:23:28.470 to learn more about becoming a CSP with the Orients 00:23:28.470 --> 00:23:31.509 Group. Look here, support your entrepreneurial 00:23:31.509 --> 00:23:33.490 journey while supporting the Thrabhu Journey 00:23:33.490 --> 00:23:36.609 podcast at the same time. All right, one more 00:23:36.609 --> 00:23:41.269 time, www .theoreansgroup .com. All right, we're 00:23:41.269 --> 00:23:43.829 done with the spot. Let's get back to the podcast. 00:23:44.549 --> 00:23:46.589 When I started my business, nobody told me I 00:23:46.589 --> 00:23:48.789 was going into sales. I just thought I was doing 00:23:48.789 --> 00:23:51.190 this fun thing over here. And then you realize, 00:23:51.390 --> 00:23:53.930 wait, I have to sell, which means I have to be 00:23:53.930 --> 00:23:57.130 rejected, which means I better deal with that. 00:23:57.829 --> 00:24:00.730 Right. I mean, that's probably in that world. 00:24:00.990 --> 00:24:04.009 It's an underlying issue for a lot of people. 00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:06.740 In one aspect of my business, I know that I have 00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:09.539 to make calls and do all that kind of stuff. 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.640 And I think for me, I was dealing with rejection. 00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:17.220 I didn't want to be told no, you know? And that 00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:20.740 was something that I had to overcome. And for 00:24:20.740 --> 00:24:23.599 me, a no is like, okay, well, not this time. 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:25.720 Maybe I'll circle back around or just keep on 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:28.259 going. And there was something that I had to 00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:30.799 deal with. How do you personally deal with it? 00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.480 personal setbacks or, or, um, resistance that 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.220 you, that you get. I still go through a cycle 00:24:37.220 --> 00:24:40.480 of, you know, depending on the day, I might just 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:43.140 one day all of a sudden, uh, rejection really 00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:45.880 bothers me and it creates that energy. And there's 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.019 that certain anxiety that's all of a sudden created 00:24:48.019 --> 00:24:51.839 in you. And, but I, I know it now. And so I can, 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.960 I can let that dissipate a little bit like getting 00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:58.059 on stage, even though I've done it so many times. 00:24:58.299 --> 00:25:01.400 Every time I still got to do it. I still feel 00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:05.839 that activation for a few hours and That's that's 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:08.839 not a bad thing actually, but I'm just used to 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:11.559 it now and I know okay Well, this is this is 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.579 just this goes with the territory for me Maybe 00:25:14.579 --> 00:25:16.819 for other people they are able to completely 00:25:16.819 --> 00:25:20.559 remove What rejection means to them? I think 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:24.410 for me it's ingrained in that there are days 00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:27.009 where I have a great bulletproof mindset and 00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:30.089 rejection just flows off me like water off a 00:25:30.089 --> 00:25:32.569 duck's back. Yeah. And there are other days where 00:25:32.569 --> 00:25:35.990 one rejection makes me want to go redesign my 00:25:35.990 --> 00:25:41.390 logo. That's so funny. Um, yeah, because I have 00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:43.970 those days too, right? Like, I'm like, ah, you 00:25:43.970 --> 00:25:46.089 know, just keep on going. Oh, somebody's told 00:25:46.089 --> 00:25:48.690 me no, it's okay. You know, you know, and then 00:25:48.690 --> 00:25:51.390 there's days where I'm looking because, you know, 00:25:51.390 --> 00:25:54.920 also in the social media world, it's like, oh, 00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:56.680 you know, somebody says something negative about 00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:58.700 something that I put out, or, you know, am I 00:25:58.700 --> 00:26:00.859 doing something wrong? And, you know, am I not 00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:03.839 doing it? Am I not good enough? Or something 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:06.099 that was, you know, it would just play around 00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:09.819 in my mind, you know, and then it's like, what 00:26:09.819 --> 00:26:11.559 steps do I need to take to make myself better, 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:13.380 but it could be nothing, you know what I mean? 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:15.940 It could just be like that person receiving something 00:26:15.940 --> 00:26:18.019 just the way they receive it has nothing to do 00:26:18.019 --> 00:26:21.339 with me. And I had to figure that out the hard 00:26:21.339 --> 00:26:29.880 way. I know you're on stages and you do a lot 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:34.740 of storytelling. What makes storytelling powerful, 00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:37.799 especially as people who are entrepreneurs that 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.359 may be not good at selling their business or 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.140 talking about their business or giving their 00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.980 vision or their purpose out? How does one do 00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:48.099 that and what makes that powerful? Yeah, stories 00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:54.460 is the superpower. Like we talked at the start, 00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:57.940 I grew up in a rural area. I was shy, introverted, 00:26:58.299 --> 00:27:00.619 totally insecure. First time I got on stage, 00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:04.839 the first hundred times I got on stage. But storytelling 00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:08.440 would be the anchor that gave me the most confidence 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.740 because it's the most natural. I think we were 00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:14.619 born to tell stories. It's difficult to remember 00:27:14.619 --> 00:27:17.640 the five bullet points, even though you've recited 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:20.529 them. but to tell a story is powerful. So when 00:27:20.529 --> 00:27:22.849 it comes to storytelling, you know, people make 00:27:22.849 --> 00:27:24.890 mistakes by trying to put too much in the story, 00:27:24.990 --> 00:27:27.450 too much backstory. Stories really need a couple 00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:30.329 of things to make them work. They need a starting 00:27:30.329 --> 00:27:33.309 point, which is some kind of a setting, right? 00:27:33.529 --> 00:27:37.329 Which is basically just per who and who and where, 00:27:37.890 --> 00:27:40.549 who, what and where, you know, Michael and I. 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.819 We're at seven eleven on Friday. That's just 00:27:43.819 --> 00:27:46.099 where it starts. The brain needs a place to get 00:27:46.099 --> 00:27:48.680 started. And then at some point it needs it needs 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.880 tension and tension is created by some sort of 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:56.380 either conflict or potential of loss. And then 00:27:56.380 --> 00:27:59.220 the rest of the story is is the resolution of 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:02.519 that tension, whether it was a solution, whether 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:07.319 it was a a fight that had to be won or a product, 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.619 your product that solved the tension. And then 00:28:11.619 --> 00:28:15.319 a transformation of the character. So when you 00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:17.579 When you tell stories though from a business 00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:21.359 perspective You want to find a way to tell their 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:23.880 story and you might have heard that before You 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.319 know make your stories their stories. Okay. Well, 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:28.660 how do I do that though? And there's a couple 00:28:28.660 --> 00:28:31.000 different ways and one of them is to is to pull 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:33.700 them into your story So I'll give you an example. 00:28:33.700 --> 00:28:37.059 I do this on one of my main keynotes I I have 00:28:37.059 --> 00:28:40.000 this keynote where it's a story of us climbing 00:28:40.939 --> 00:28:43.200 The attempting to climb the highest mountain 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:46.940 in Bolivia. And I start out telling the story 00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:50.240 and we're stuck at high camp. And then I say 00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:52.160 to the audience, I say, I want you to imagine 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:54.079 for a moment that there you are at high camp. 00:28:54.220 --> 00:28:57.019 And I begin to explain what high camp looks like. 00:28:57.319 --> 00:29:00.359 But, but I'm telling them like, then you do this, 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.400 then you get into your tent is freezing cold. 00:29:02.619 --> 00:29:04.259 You hear the wind. And then I take the story 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:07.440 back and I go back to, you know, I, I, I, but 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.599 in that brief. 30 seconds what I did was I got 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:13.579 people to imagine themselves on the mountain 00:29:13.579 --> 00:29:16.160 and now for the rest of the story they're climbing 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.359 the mountain which is filled with obstacles and 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.440 then they get really into the story so that's 00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:24.000 one way the other way is when you tell a story 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:29.299 and the character is very similar to them so 00:29:29.299 --> 00:29:34.779 for example if I was speaking to a rural audience 00:29:34.779 --> 00:29:38.200 which I've done from time to time And I could 00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:40.519 be telling one of my stories of growing up in 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:43.420 a rural area people resonate with that because 00:29:43.420 --> 00:29:46.720 they get that and in that way, it's their story 00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.019 or if you've got a product you're trying to sell 00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:52.099 and You're gonna give a test. You're gonna give 00:29:52.099 --> 00:29:54.259 a testimonial or a case study. Those are just 00:29:54.259 --> 00:29:57.720 stories You know like hey Michael tried our product. 00:29:57.819 --> 00:30:00.140 This is what Michael was struggling with with 00:30:00.140 --> 00:30:04.059 his business Right and as I'm telling people 00:30:04.059 --> 00:30:07.220 your story everyone who has the same problem, 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.099 it becomes their story, right? Your transformation 00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:14.779 becomes the transformation they want. The reason 00:30:14.779 --> 00:30:17.339 stories are so powerful is because think of it 00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:20.839 a little bit like the city of Troy, like the 00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:24.660 story of the Trojan horse, right? Like everyone's 00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:29.700 walls are up to resist influence. And what a 00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:32.059 story is, is the Trojan horse that's new and 00:30:32.059 --> 00:30:35.079 exciting and like, what's that? And people lower 00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:38.319 the bridge and let it inside. And then of course, 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:40.059 in the story, the soldiers came out. Well, the 00:30:40.059 --> 00:30:42.500 soldiers are the point of your story. Whatever 00:30:42.500 --> 00:30:44.119 point you're wanting to make, you're wrapping 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:46.220 that in a story that gets it through the gates. 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.059 And now they're into the city. That's their mind. 00:30:49.579 --> 00:30:51.839 Right. And that's how you change people's thinking. 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.299 Because if you want people to change it, it doesn't 00:30:55.299 --> 00:30:57.789 even start with just like knowledge. It's getting 00:30:57.789 --> 00:31:00.809 them to think differently. And once they think 00:31:00.809 --> 00:31:02.250 differently, they're going to take different 00:31:02.250 --> 00:31:05.930 action. So when you think about what story that 00:31:05.930 --> 00:31:08.549 you should tell, think more about what do I want 00:31:08.549 --> 00:31:11.069 them to think? And what do I want them to feel? 00:31:11.450 --> 00:31:14.130 And now let me create a story that's going to 00:31:14.130 --> 00:31:16.349 accomplish those two goals. And then you're in 00:31:16.349 --> 00:31:19.009 and you're in Yeah, for sure. Again, you've been 00:31:19.009 --> 00:31:21.710 on stages you had like we've talked before, like 00:31:21.710 --> 00:31:25.890 before the podcast started. You said 3 ,000 times 00:31:25.890 --> 00:31:30.589 you've been on stages. So for those who are listening 00:31:30.589 --> 00:31:33.150 and want to use, you know, they want to start 00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:37.369 speaking to, you know, elevate themselves and 00:31:37.369 --> 00:31:40.130 their business or, you know, and also to elevate 00:31:40.130 --> 00:31:42.509 the audience that they want to speak to. In the 00:31:42.509 --> 00:31:45.650 beginning, I know it's not easy. Have you had 00:31:45.650 --> 00:31:52.210 a story or sharing yourself on the stage and 00:31:52.210 --> 00:31:55.579 that that story or that message it flopped. And 00:31:55.579 --> 00:31:59.740 if so, how'd you recover? Yeah, so I came with 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:02.359 the belief that I am not a public speaker. And 00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:04.859 that started when I was seven years old. And 00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:07.779 I was asked to thank one of our coaches at the 00:32:07.779 --> 00:32:10.799 end of the year banquet. And I got up to do this 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.099 speech, and I totally bombed it. And even at 00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:16.160 seven, I knew I had bombed it. And it was like 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:18.299 somebody put a sticky note on me, you know, not 00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:20.900 a public speaker. Then in ninth grade, we had 00:32:20.900 --> 00:32:24.230 to do a speech. uh everybody had to do a speech 00:32:24.230 --> 00:32:27.369 in class and because of my own anxiety and because 00:32:27.369 --> 00:32:29.490 of my like i'm no good at this i didn't prepare 00:32:29.490 --> 00:32:32.950 and i totally bombed it and you know it's a it's 00:32:32.950 --> 00:32:35.990 a terrible feeling when you're 14 in front of 00:32:35.990 --> 00:32:38.910 your peers knowing that you suck in this moment 00:32:38.910 --> 00:32:41.930 and it was like 50 more you know post it no it's 00:32:41.930 --> 00:32:44.710 like not a public speaker well anyways this this 00:32:44.710 --> 00:32:48.119 continued i went to college and I sat in the 00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:49.920 first day of this one class and the professor 00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:51.700 said, part of your grade, everyone's going to 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:54.559 get up front and do a presentation. I was like, 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:58.440 heck no, not me. I dropped the class. So my fear 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:03.279 of speaking was then dictating my future. And 00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:06.440 what changed was one day I was, it was still 00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:08.380 a college student and I was attending this church 00:33:08.380 --> 00:33:11.059 and the preacher came to me and said, Hey, we'd 00:33:11.059 --> 00:33:14.299 like a college student to get up front. and share, 00:33:14.299 --> 00:33:16.519 you know, for five minutes on what they're learning 00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:20.880 in their Bible. And I'm like, can't you see all 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.099 the post -it notes on me that say you're not 00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:27.640 the public speaker? Right. So anyways, I distinctly 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:29.519 remember I was sitting on a football side of 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.880 a football field and I was just whining about 00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:35.220 this. And it was literally like a voice that 00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:38.940 said to me, could you just one time, could you 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:41.920 for once just not care about what anyone thinks? 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.799 and just go and do this. And I was like, okay, 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.559 I'll do it. And you know, if I'm going to fail, 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.579 let's let's at least make it a great story. And 00:33:50.579 --> 00:33:54.099 let's fail big time. So the difference was all 00:33:54.099 --> 00:33:58.119 of a sudden, I prepped, I prepared, and I showed 00:33:58.119 --> 00:33:59.599 up and I thought, well, I'm just going to go 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:03.720 for it and be energetic. And I was and at the 00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:06.759 end, when I got done, people started to come 00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:09.320 up to me and said, hey, you need to do that more 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:13.380 often. And that was the first day that some of 00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:16.500 those sticky notes began to come off. Not all 00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:18.860 of them. But then I realized I was the one who 00:34:18.860 --> 00:34:21.340 put them there in the first place. And so we 00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:23.840 have to be careful what we tell ourselves. So 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:27.480 for those of you who are entrepreneurs, giving 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.579 presentations is one of the best ways to grow 00:34:30.579 --> 00:34:34.019 your business. I would say 80 % of all my business 00:34:34.019 --> 00:34:36.880 is generated because of some kind of stage. Speaking 00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.900 at a conference, Uh, giving a webinar, inviting 00:34:40.900 --> 00:34:44.619 people to a free workshop. I'd say 80 % of my 00:34:44.619 --> 00:34:48.300 business comes out of that. And again, you might 00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:50.420 say, well, yeah, you've spoke so many times. 00:34:50.659 --> 00:34:53.420 Yeah, but look where I started. You, you can't 00:34:53.420 --> 00:34:57.159 be any further back than me when I started, right? 00:34:57.179 --> 00:34:59.559 Who's like, I, I'm going to drop my course. I 00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:02.699 can't do this. So yeah, it's, of course it's 00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:04.519 scary, but when you have the right structure, 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.739 then That's really where it is. It's, it's how 00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:09.880 you structure a presentation. That's where the 00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:12.599 money is. Yeah. I was going to say that because 00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.099 I have the opposite story. I, the first time 00:35:16.099 --> 00:35:18.460 I remember being in front of a crowd, I was thinking 00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:21.139 I was maybe, I dunno, I was in middle school. 00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:24.159 I was, I was wrestling and we had, you know, 00:35:24.219 --> 00:35:27.059 the, the little dinner after, you know, it's 00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:31.500 all done and everything. And, and I, I, you know, 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:33.300 had some postcards and everything. I was supposed 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:36.469 to go up and, you know, welcome people or whatever. 00:35:37.349 --> 00:35:40.170 And I didn't know what I was doing. But I was 00:35:40.170 --> 00:35:43.869 so confident in myself. And I used I found the 00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:46.409 word matriculation. I think maybe I was in, I 00:35:46.409 --> 00:35:48.449 don't know, maybe seventh grade, we're going 00:35:48.449 --> 00:35:49.670 into eighth grade, I don't know, something like 00:35:49.670 --> 00:35:53.230 that. And people are like, Oh, my God, matriculation 00:35:53.230 --> 00:35:55.510 for your such a young guy, you know, you know, 00:35:55.530 --> 00:35:57.889 these words. And so I got the pat on the back, 00:35:58.030 --> 00:36:02.130 you know, and then later on, and I was maybe 00:36:02.130 --> 00:36:05.500 14 or something. I went to Europe, you know, 00:36:05.619 --> 00:36:07.880 track and field, came back, received an award, 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.440 and I was in front of all these people. The only 00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:14.179 thing I said was, I don't know what to say. And 00:36:14.179 --> 00:36:16.280 everybody laughed and I thought it was great. 00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:20.219 So in my mind, I was, you know, doing good. And 00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:23.400 as I got older, you know, in college, I had to 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:28.460 do public speaking for my degree. And I was good 00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:32.789 in that. But then as I got older, Again, it was 00:36:32.789 --> 00:36:36.030 like a reverse. I just I was afraid to talk to 00:36:36.030 --> 00:36:37.989 people for whatever reason. Again, you were talking 00:36:37.989 --> 00:36:41.789 about structure. I felt like I just didn't have 00:36:41.789 --> 00:36:45.409 anything to say or maybe I didn't have a structure. 00:36:45.869 --> 00:36:49.909 But then I shied away from it. You know, what 00:36:49.909 --> 00:36:52.190 would you say to people that were in my shoes? 00:36:52.469 --> 00:36:55.230 You know, and I mean, I became an actor and all 00:36:55.230 --> 00:36:57.190 that kind of stuff. So I think kind of shifted. 00:36:57.909 --> 00:37:03.780 But still, if you said, Mike, go into this place 00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:08.159 and speak to 20 people. I'll be out. You know, 00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:10.760 I'll do this. I don't know. I don't know. What 00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:13.400 do you say to those people? First of all, like 00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:17.019 me, talk to me. First of all, I don't even know 00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:20.019 what the word matriculation means. So that's 00:37:20.019 --> 00:37:23.139 impressive that you use that as a child. Yeah, 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:27.250 Mike. I mean you can put me in front of a group 00:37:27.250 --> 00:37:29.630 and just say James talk to these people about 00:37:29.630 --> 00:37:31.150 you know Whatever and if it's something I don't 00:37:31.150 --> 00:37:32.949 really know about then of course, it's gonna 00:37:32.949 --> 00:37:35.809 cue the anxiety. It's gonna cue the insecurity 00:37:35.809 --> 00:37:38.929 At the end of the day when you're up front if 00:37:38.929 --> 00:37:41.989 you're speaking you got to think what's the message 00:37:41.989 --> 00:37:47.409 I want to share so sometimes sometimes we We 00:37:47.409 --> 00:37:50.429 doubt ourselves that we have a message but we 00:37:50.429 --> 00:37:55.840 do other times we maybe are so caught up with, 00:37:56.119 --> 00:37:57.860 oh, what should I say that we don't think about 00:37:57.860 --> 00:38:00.639 a message? So for example, let's say somebody 00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:03.360 is thanking you, honoring you for something. 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.460 And you get that moment where you're like, oh, 00:38:06.460 --> 00:38:08.619 I don't know what to say. But when you think 00:38:08.619 --> 00:38:11.400 about it, it's like, but what's the message I 00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:14.059 want to send? It could be that I'm so grateful. 00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.639 The message could be, I couldn't, I definitely 00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:20.360 didn't make it here on my own. The message could 00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:25.829 be, Hey, stick close to those who are your friends 00:38:25.829 --> 00:38:28.070 or, you know, whatever it is, there's, there's 00:38:28.070 --> 00:38:29.909 always a message. Sometimes it just takes that 00:38:29.909 --> 00:38:32.590 extra step to think about it. And once you get 00:38:32.590 --> 00:38:36.250 that, like, once you get clear on, Oh, this is, 00:38:36.650 --> 00:38:40.429 this is my message. Now just, now just say it 00:38:40.429 --> 00:38:44.230 in the most authentic way. Yeah. And you know, 00:38:44.250 --> 00:38:47.630 all the teaching about stagecraft and gestures, 00:38:48.170 --> 00:38:50.630 ah, there's a place for that. But like way, way 00:38:50.630 --> 00:38:53.110 down the road. The best thing you can do is just 00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:57.289 be authentic. And even if you're stammering and 00:38:57.289 --> 00:39:00.349 searching for words, that's actually okay. As 00:39:00.349 --> 00:39:03.610 long as you're present, right? Present with a 00:39:03.610 --> 00:39:07.250 message. So if someone surprised me, so let's 00:39:07.250 --> 00:39:09.650 say, let's say my friends all came over on my 00:39:09.650 --> 00:39:12.369 birthday and surprised me with a surprise party. 00:39:12.550 --> 00:39:15.090 And then they're like, speech, speech, speech. 00:39:15.389 --> 00:39:17.650 I might have that moment of like, ah, like, I 00:39:17.650 --> 00:39:19.769 don't know what to say. Right. But if I think 00:39:19.769 --> 00:39:22.809 about it for a moment. Well, what's one of my 00:39:22.809 --> 00:39:25.690 messages? One of my messages might be, I'm so 00:39:25.690 --> 00:39:29.010 grateful for the friendships I have. And suddenly 00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:31.309 I can, I can just start going around the room 00:39:31.309 --> 00:39:33.449 and that can turn into a 10 minute presentation 00:39:33.449 --> 00:39:35.769 about, you know, one thing I appreciate about 00:39:35.769 --> 00:39:39.469 Mike at this and this and this, uh, these guys 00:39:39.469 --> 00:39:41.650 think about our trip to Iceland, how much fun 00:39:41.650 --> 00:39:44.909 that was. And before I know it, there's a speech, 00:39:45.090 --> 00:39:49.710 but it's come out of a message of, of mine. Right. 00:39:50.170 --> 00:39:54.909 Yeah. Yeah, I think for me, the word that stuck 00:39:54.909 --> 00:39:58.789 out the most for me was authenticity. When you're 00:39:58.789 --> 00:40:00.570 authentic, even if you don't have anything to 00:40:00.570 --> 00:40:03.530 share, something will come up, you know, and 00:40:03.530 --> 00:40:06.449 whatever that message is. Yeah. Yeah. And that's 00:40:06.449 --> 00:40:10.150 a mistake I've made a lot, Mike, in the kind 00:40:10.150 --> 00:40:13.070 of the professional speaking is that it took 00:40:13.070 --> 00:40:15.309 me longer than it should have to be authentic. 00:40:16.190 --> 00:40:19.449 And it was a good friend of mine who's just raw, 00:40:19.730 --> 00:40:23.130 honest. In his presentations, he talked to me 00:40:23.130 --> 00:40:26.050 and he said, Hey, like your audience, they're 00:40:26.050 --> 00:40:28.349 going through their own pain, their own struggle. 00:40:28.849 --> 00:40:31.829 Like when you share yours. And so I thought, 00:40:32.010 --> 00:40:36.190 okay. And I, I then the next speech I did, I, 00:40:36.789 --> 00:40:38.690 to me, what I thought was very vulnerable point. 00:40:39.429 --> 00:40:41.789 I began sharing the story about something that 00:40:41.789 --> 00:40:45.050 had happened with our family. And I mean, right 00:40:45.050 --> 00:40:48.449 away, it just drew the audience like a, like 00:40:48.449 --> 00:40:52.079 the moon draws the tide. It just drew the audience 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.719 to me. Because instead of me saying, here's the 00:40:55.719 --> 00:40:57.659 three questions that you can ask as a leader 00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:01.980 to connect purpose to pay, right? It was, you 00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:05.599 know, one time this happened with my family or 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:09.400 this happened with my daughter or my son. And 00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:12.559 it's a it's a vulnerable moment. And now everyone's 00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:15.840 listening because because now your story is their 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.079 story. Yeah, I like that. Just just connecting. 00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:22.639 in authenticity and talking about, you know, 00:41:22.699 --> 00:41:24.900 growing your business and leadership with speaking 00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:28.619 and things of that nature. Leadership struggles, 00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:30.280 growing a business is what I just wrote from 00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:35.599 my notes here. What's a leadership lesson that 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:38.340 every entrepreneur should learn early in their 00:41:38.340 --> 00:41:41.039 career? Every entrepreneur, like I said, goes 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:45.599 into business for some reason that motivates 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.949 them. But at some point when they hire staff, 00:41:49.429 --> 00:41:52.309 they now become a leader, not just a business 00:41:52.309 --> 00:41:54.869 owner. And when it comes to leadership, now we're 00:41:54.869 --> 00:41:57.530 talking people. And every leader has a natural 00:41:57.530 --> 00:42:01.170 bent on one side of a spectrum. There's the driver 00:42:01.170 --> 00:42:04.289 side and the builder side. So the builders, they 00:42:04.289 --> 00:42:08.190 prioritize relationships, team, cohesion. The 00:42:08.190 --> 00:42:10.789 drivers prioritize results. Neither is wrong 00:42:10.789 --> 00:42:14.530 or right. And everyone's somewhere on that spectrum. 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:18.139 It's just that the driver's blind spot is often 00:42:18.139 --> 00:42:21.900 pushing people at the expense of of how are the 00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:24.219 people doing? How is the team doing? And the 00:42:24.219 --> 00:42:27.820 builders, their blind spot is sometimes they 00:42:27.820 --> 00:42:30.420 don't push for results because they're more concerned 00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:33.179 about the cohesion. So which it doesn't matter 00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:37.119 where you are. Just know that like I'm a builder 00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:39.780 and I know that my weakness is that sometimes 00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:42.360 I don't have high enough expectations. Okay, 00:42:42.579 --> 00:42:46.980 great. Then let me make sure. I'm always vigilant 00:42:46.980 --> 00:42:49.260 about that so I can bump up the expectations. 00:42:49.420 --> 00:42:53.079 Or when my staff gives me an excuse about why 00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:54.940 they didn't get something done, instead of just 00:42:54.940 --> 00:42:58.679 going, oh, okay, I understand that's okay. Understand 00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:02.599 that I often let people off the hook easy. So 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:05.159 let me pause on that for a little bit and think. 00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:07.659 For the driver, they're gonna ask themselves 00:43:07.659 --> 00:43:10.360 questions like, okay, I know we're pushing, pushing, 00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:12.199 pushing for these results, but when's the last 00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:14.880 time I just... even ask one of my staff how they're 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.760 doing or what did they do on the weekend or you 00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.579 know I heard their mom's in the hospital how 00:43:19.579 --> 00:43:23.340 is she yeah that's that's important so to answer 00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:25.920 the question you've got to understand who you 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:28.860 are as a leader where your natural bent is lean 00:43:28.860 --> 00:43:32.820 into that of course but make sure that you are 00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:36.039 keeping an eye on the other side yeah it's skill 00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:40.730 building right um we're in this Kind of new, 00:43:40.869 --> 00:43:42.969 I don't know if it's new, but we're in this new 00:43:42.969 --> 00:43:46.690 era, I keep saying new, in the era of, you know, 00:43:46.889 --> 00:43:49.909 technology and, you know, people figuring out, 00:43:49.909 --> 00:43:52.449 you know, how to create a business online and 00:43:52.449 --> 00:43:55.849 things of that nature. What do you think is the 00:43:55.849 --> 00:43:58.170 leadership skill that's kind of essential within 00:43:58.170 --> 00:44:00.690 the next, you know, five to 10 years? Understanding 00:44:00.690 --> 00:44:04.289 how AI is going to fit in with your business. 00:44:04.389 --> 00:44:07.250 I just did a workshop teaching leaders how to 00:44:07.250 --> 00:44:10.539 use AI to coach. how to make better decisions, 00:44:10.940 --> 00:44:14.900 how to analyze data. And, you know, the leaders 00:44:14.900 --> 00:44:17.380 who are not and the business owners who are not 00:44:17.380 --> 00:44:21.039 learning how they can bring in AI, you're going 00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:24.840 to find yourself behind. Yeah, yeah. I agree. 00:44:25.579 --> 00:44:29.019 You know, it was such a thing for me, like, you 00:44:29.019 --> 00:44:31.320 know, growing up, I was, you know, early in the 00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:33.199 90s, I think I was like, Oh, computers are the 00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:37.619 best, you know. And it was easy to do. computers 00:44:37.619 --> 00:44:39.320 back then, you know, a little programming and 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.699 all that kind of stuff. And, you know, of course, 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:45.760 things, you know, transition so quickly throughout 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.420 the years. And then when I got to AI, I was like, 00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:52.320 Oh my God, this is this is too much. But it helps 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.960 my business. And I figured, you know what, this 00:44:55.960 --> 00:45:00.179 is I have to embrace what it is, and then find 00:45:00.179 --> 00:45:04.190 out how to use it in my life and my business, 00:45:04.369 --> 00:45:07.230 because it's going to be there to stay, you know? 00:45:08.170 --> 00:45:11.969 So, that's sound advice. I want to talk about 00:45:11.969 --> 00:45:15.130 your book a little bit. Call to Climb, right? 00:45:17.230 --> 00:45:19.489 What inspired you to write that? The Call to 00:45:19.489 --> 00:45:23.389 Climb came out of, I would say, a mid -life crisis. 00:45:23.389 --> 00:45:27.570 I was in my mid -30s and I started wondering, 00:45:27.769 --> 00:45:31.019 why am I not happy with what I'm doing? The career 00:45:31.019 --> 00:45:33.519 I was in was highly purposeful as working for 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:36.699 a not -for -profit. Many people would have loved 00:45:36.699 --> 00:45:41.159 my job. And I thought, why am I not happy with 00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:43.679 this? But I didn't feel like I could change. 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.679 And that created sort of a, as Dr. James Hollis 00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:50.440 says, a collision of selves. There's the self 00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:52.820 I think I'm supposed to be, but then there's 00:45:52.820 --> 00:45:55.780 this other self, or let's say, pushed by the 00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:59.789 soul of doing something different. because when 00:45:59.789 --> 00:46:03.130 your life gets out of alignment, it creates problems. 00:46:04.349 --> 00:46:07.949 So in fact, the real inspiration of the book 00:46:07.949 --> 00:46:12.469 came when I thought, I'm gonna go see a therapist. 00:46:12.750 --> 00:46:18.250 And this was early 2000s. So even still then 00:46:18.250 --> 00:46:20.889 there was this stigma, especially for men, like, 00:46:20.889 --> 00:46:23.849 at least for me, like to go to therapy was actually 00:46:23.849 --> 00:46:27.869 a big... Big step in because it felt like a failure 00:46:27.869 --> 00:46:30.530 actually, but so it was a big step in that but 00:46:30.530 --> 00:46:33.769 he gave me this book by dr James Hollis called 00:46:33.769 --> 00:46:36.730 finding meaning in the second half of life how 00:46:36.730 --> 00:46:39.969 to finally grow up and so I read it and it was 00:46:39.969 --> 00:46:42.449 all about it was all about taking control back 00:46:42.449 --> 00:46:44.869 of your life and understanding that there are 00:46:44.869 --> 00:46:47.570 there are programs that are driving your behavior, 00:46:47.570 --> 00:46:51.630 but that at some point everyone's life receives 00:46:51.630 --> 00:46:55.599 a summons from the soul to come and have an appointment. 00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:59.420 But most people ignore the appointment with the 00:46:59.420 --> 00:47:02.440 soul. So that was the stuff he wrote about. And 00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:06.059 it impacted me so profoundly. I ended up reading 00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:09.019 so many of his books, contacted him online, was 00:47:09.019 --> 00:47:11.340 able to speak with them, had them on my podcast. 00:47:11.980 --> 00:47:15.280 But that planted the idea for the call to climb. 00:47:15.380 --> 00:47:17.000 And the call to climb is actually written in 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:19.800 a fable format. It's about somebody who stumbles 00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.260 into this village, remote village in Bolivia. 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.280 Only to find out that this village has been expecting 00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:28.099 them Because it's at the foot of this mountain 00:47:28.099 --> 00:47:31.440 and this mountain is special in that it calls 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:34.860 people to climb whose life is out of alignment 00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:37.960 so that they might Finally sit down and have 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:40.300 a conversation with their soul a conversation. 00:47:40.300 --> 00:47:42.719 They've been avoiding so the entire books about 00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:44.900 that and this main character ends up climbing 00:47:44.900 --> 00:47:47.659 up this mountain there's a guide with them the 00:47:47.659 --> 00:47:50.880 whole way and What happens throughout the climb 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.429 they begin realizing? what's really governing 00:47:53.429 --> 00:47:56.349 their life, what's really controlling it and 00:47:56.349 --> 00:47:59.150 how they can take back control from fear, from 00:47:59.150 --> 00:48:02.469 the opinions of others. And yeah, so that's, 00:48:02.510 --> 00:48:06.969 it's, it's been 12 years in the idea stage. And 00:48:06.969 --> 00:48:10.150 then finally, last year, we decided, all right, 00:48:10.150 --> 00:48:12.510 let's, let's make this happen. I knew someone 00:48:12.510 --> 00:48:15.469 at Wiley, a publisher, I'd known her for years 00:48:15.469 --> 00:48:17.210 and she reached out and she was like, when are 00:48:17.210 --> 00:48:19.710 you going to do this? And so I said, okay, let's 00:48:19.710 --> 00:48:22.989 do it. And so, yeah. I need it. I always need 00:48:22.989 --> 00:48:26.190 a deadline. So that got me that got it finished. 00:48:26.190 --> 00:48:28.010 And now we're just waiting for it to come out. 00:48:28.289 --> 00:48:30.150 All right. Say I was going to ask you when is 00:48:30.150 --> 00:48:32.550 it was it going to be up? I'll be happy like 00:48:32.550 --> 00:48:35.530 in August. Yeah, August 5. If you go to I will 00:48:35.530 --> 00:48:38.750 climb calm, I will climb calm, you'll see all 00:48:38.750 --> 00:48:41.349 the information for it. Awesome. All right. Because 00:48:41.349 --> 00:48:47.010 I will get that book. Appreciate it. Yeah. Want 00:48:47.010 --> 00:48:49.289 to wrap up a little bit here, but you do you 00:48:49.289 --> 00:48:53.309 had some phrases collision of self Summons from 00:48:53.309 --> 00:48:56.969 the soul call to the climb. I like I like these 00:48:56.969 --> 00:49:00.269 In all of that, you know, it's kind of it's it's 00:49:00.269 --> 00:49:04.130 really getting intrinsic, right? And you're a 00:49:04.130 --> 00:49:07.449 leader you built your business and you know for 00:49:07.449 --> 00:49:11.969 anyone less listening Can you is there one question 00:49:11.969 --> 00:49:15.789 that you as a leader? ask yourself every day 00:49:15.789 --> 00:49:18.369 or is there a question that leaders should ask 00:49:18.369 --> 00:49:20.510 themselves every day? I think a great question 00:49:20.510 --> 00:49:24.489 for leaders to ask is what's my work? And what 00:49:24.489 --> 00:49:27.050 I mean by that is I differentiate between your 00:49:27.050 --> 00:49:31.010 job and your work, right? So all of us have elements. 00:49:31.369 --> 00:49:34.170 of a job, right? And there's parts of your job 00:49:34.170 --> 00:49:35.690 that I'm sure you don't like. There's parts of 00:49:35.690 --> 00:49:39.969 my job I don't like. I don't like being stuck 00:49:39.969 --> 00:49:42.469 in Atlanta airport because my flight was delayed 00:49:42.469 --> 00:49:45.090 on a layover. But it's part of my job. I don't 00:49:45.090 --> 00:49:47.469 like that. I don't like getting on the phone 00:49:47.469 --> 00:49:49.730 and doing sales calls as part of my job, but 00:49:49.730 --> 00:49:52.590 it's not my work. What's your work? And so your 00:49:52.590 --> 00:49:57.590 work is where, in a sense, your purpose and your 00:49:57.639 --> 00:49:59.940 what I call your worthy pursuit come together, 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:03.760 right? Who you are and in this moment, what are 00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:06.260 you called to bring to the world? And so what's 00:50:06.260 --> 00:50:11.500 my work? And it's, it's not your job title. It's, 00:50:11.500 --> 00:50:13.780 it's, it's within that, of course, but what's 00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:16.460 my work? Okay. My work is, you know, to create 00:50:16.460 --> 00:50:18.739 a company where my staff feel like it's a safe 00:50:18.739 --> 00:50:22.199 place to work. My work is, is empowering leaders 00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:24.420 so that as they're better leaders, the people 00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:27.539 under them. are happier and they go home happier. 00:50:28.460 --> 00:50:31.159 That's, that's what I remind myself of sitting 00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:34.619 in Atlanta airport after another delay. Okay, 00:50:34.619 --> 00:50:36.460 this is part of my job. Sure, I don't like this. 00:50:36.500 --> 00:50:39.400 But what's my work? And everyone has to find 00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:42.119 that answer for themselves. And then keep it 00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.300 close. Because even the person doing bookkeeping 00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:49.300 for the Cancer Society needs to be reminded that 00:50:49.300 --> 00:50:52.739 I'm I'm part of something bigger person the big 00:50:52.739 --> 00:50:56.530 as you were saying that What was there for me 00:50:56.530 --> 00:51:01.510 was it keeps you connected to your why, your 00:51:01.510 --> 00:51:05.329 business is what it is or why you're doing or 00:51:05.329 --> 00:51:08.170 being who you are, being for your business and 00:51:08.170 --> 00:51:10.070 just keeps you connected. In the moments when 00:51:10.070 --> 00:51:12.610 you're stuck in Atlanta, the busiest airport 00:51:12.610 --> 00:51:14.789 in the world, when you're stuck in the airport, 00:51:15.090 --> 00:51:18.289 you know, not necessarily loving that moment, 00:51:18.730 --> 00:51:22.159 but also loving what you do. and who you are 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:23.920 in it. For sure. And Mike, you and I talked about 00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.619 this before we came on air, even about both of 00:51:26.619 --> 00:51:29.320 our podcasts. Both of us have a similar start 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.619 to our podcast. It wasn't like I'm a sort of 00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:33.400 podcast so I can get clients and make money. 00:51:33.500 --> 00:51:37.380 It was just I'm doing this because this is something 00:51:37.380 --> 00:51:41.000 fun for me. I like to do. I want to have guests 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:44.079 on that other people will listen to and it will 00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:47.840 inspire them. That's all tied into my work. It's 00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:51.809 not paid work, but it's still my work. And it's 00:51:51.809 --> 00:51:55.849 your work, right? So we, we, we love doing that. 00:51:55.849 --> 00:51:59.449 Yeah. And oftentimes I have to keep myself, you 00:51:59.449 --> 00:52:02.889 know, you know, connected with, you know, my 00:52:02.889 --> 00:52:06.389 purpose and my, and why we do what we do with 00:52:06.389 --> 00:52:08.929 this podcast. And it is, it is a true love for 00:52:08.929 --> 00:52:11.829 it. And I love having the conversations that, 00:52:11.909 --> 00:52:14.429 you know, even though I have linear questions, 00:52:15.130 --> 00:52:19.260 but it's, these are things I want to know from 00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:21.119 people who have been there or have done that. 00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:24.159 And we get to share this with people who may 00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:25.960 be struggling with something in their business 00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:29.639 or in their life. And they may hear something 00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:31.679 that really sparked something within them that 00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:34.800 may change their trajectory in whatever they're 00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.860 dealing with. And that's what I love. And I hear, 00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:41.739 not hear, but I get messages like, your podcast 00:52:41.739 --> 00:52:44.329 is good, keep going. when in the back of your 00:52:44.329 --> 00:52:46.690 head, it's like, are we doing anything? Do we 00:52:46.690 --> 00:52:49.889 suck? Or are we making a difference? You know, 00:52:50.670 --> 00:52:53.389 that little guy in the back of the head. And 00:52:53.389 --> 00:52:58.110 so when you when I'm doubting myself, that's 00:52:58.110 --> 00:53:00.010 a great question to ask, like, you know, what's 00:53:00.010 --> 00:53:03.550 my work? And my work is to, you know, really 00:53:03.550 --> 00:53:06.309 help and support people and live in their purpose 00:53:06.309 --> 00:53:10.550 and what they're up to. So as we wrap it up, 00:53:12.010 --> 00:53:15.739 James, What is your story that you want to share 00:53:15.739 --> 00:53:17.679 as your last words or something that you want 00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:20.159 to share as your last words on the podcast today? 00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:23.699 When you think all of us one day, all of us one 00:53:23.699 --> 00:53:27.239 day have the same final destination, and a group 00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.300 of people are going to gather at our funeral. 00:53:31.539 --> 00:53:33.860 And someone's going to read your eulogy. And 00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:36.500 your eulogy is basically all the things you accomplished. 00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:39.559 And it's going to take about two minutes. And 00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:41.960 the rest of the hour is a bunch of people talking 00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:45.280 about who you were and what you meant to them. 00:53:45.639 --> 00:53:47.780 And I think that's one of those things to always 00:53:47.780 --> 00:53:50.360 keep in mind. As entrepreneurs, we're always 00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:53.760 focused on eulogy, right? Build my eulogy, but 00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:56.420 it's going to be read in two minutes. So the 00:53:56.420 --> 00:53:58.719 bigger way is how do I show up as my best self 00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.760 for those around me? And I think that's the message 00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:03.619 I would want to leave people with today. I like 00:54:03.619 --> 00:54:07.360 that. How do I show up as my best best self for 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:10.699 the people around me? And that will, you know, 00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:15.139 you showing up that way? will live on within 00:54:15.139 --> 00:54:18.480 the people and it'll continue to affect people 00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:22.000 long after we're gone, you know? And I love that. 00:54:22.300 --> 00:54:25.360 How do people get in touch with you? I know you 00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:30.269 shared your website for your book, but... How 00:54:30.269 --> 00:54:32.610 else do we get in contact with your people get 00:54:32.610 --> 00:54:34.469 in contact with you? Thank you for asking. They 00:54:34.469 --> 00:54:37.369 can go to JamesRobbins .com. That's two B's and 00:54:37.369 --> 00:54:40.110 Robbins. JamesRobbins .com. Find me on LinkedIn. 00:54:40.230 --> 00:54:42.489 Tell me and let me know that you heard about 00:54:42.489 --> 00:54:45.610 me on Mike show here. And yeah, if you want to 00:54:45.610 --> 00:54:47.889 check out the book, I will climb .com comes out 00:54:47.889 --> 00:54:50.329 in August. You can you can get your copy ahead 00:54:50.329 --> 00:54:53.550 now though. Perfect. And born to climb is the 00:54:53.550 --> 00:54:56.809 name of your podcast? Yes. Born to Climb is the 00:54:56.809 --> 00:54:58.730 name of my podcast. All right. So check James 00:54:58.730 --> 00:55:02.690 out. And James, thank you for being here. Truly 00:55:02.690 --> 00:55:06.150 inspirational by listening to you. And I wanted 00:55:06.150 --> 00:55:08.630 to get into your climbing, your climbing stories, 00:55:08.670 --> 00:55:11.630 but maybe next time. But again, thank you for 00:55:11.630 --> 00:55:15.110 being here. And all you listeners and watchers, 00:55:15.269 --> 00:55:17.750 go to our Facebook group, The Tharbo Journey, 00:55:18.010 --> 00:55:21.050 connect with us there. And as we always say, 00:55:21.730 --> 00:55:24.670 let's make thriving our new normal. Thank you, 00:55:24.769 --> 00:55:25.590 James. Thanks.