WEBVTT

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Did you guys watch the bloopers at the end, by

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the way? Yeah. Once the credits stop rolling,

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he's like, all right, finally, we're done. Can

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I get my Rickshaw now? You see the kid, like,

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step on the barbed wire. Blood's all pouring

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out on the camera lens. And she's yelling about

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missing a take and stuff. It's super, super funny.

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Welcome to Fear of Stairs, Desi Films Decoded,

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the podcast where four friends from different

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backgrounds unlock the world of Desi cinema.

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I'm Winnie, the Desi who's never been to India.

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Hey, I'm Kili. I'm from India. I love films and

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I like to talk about films. Hi, I'm Nikki. I'm

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from Thailand and I love to talk about films

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too. Hey, I'm Adam. I'm from America. I like

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to talk about films as well. Wow. We have such

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common... We should do a podcast about this.

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I think that's a good idea. Anyway, so today,

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I just have to tell you guys something. My depression

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came back. From this movie? From this movie.

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For real? This is a very heavy film. It's a heavy

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film. I think... So, me, Keely, and Winnie didn't

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realize what kind of movie we were going into.

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And this movie is pretty heavy. It deals with

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the poverty... Children? Children? Impoverished

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children? Bombay. And of course, as you can see,

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that movie is Salaam Bombay by Meera Nair. Yeah,

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so we chose this because she is the mom of Zoran

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Mandani, who just got the Democratic nomination

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for the mayor of New York. He's a Democratic

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socialist. He's 33. He's pretty young. And it's

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just not talked about often. And I really wasn't

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aware either that his mom was a director. And

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we kind of looked into it and saw that, you know,

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she's actually a pretty big director that's done

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American films and Indian films. So we thought

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we'd be like kind of topical. And we watched

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the first one she's ever done. None of us had

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seen it. I didn't know anything about it. Yeah.

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I just I just, you know, watched it not knowing

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what to expect either. Well, what are your guys's?

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So, yeah, tell me. I'm curious. You guys saw

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it together. It was so heavy and it felt a bit

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drawn out. I mean, it was very raw, great acting,

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great, you know, like the storyline and everything.

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It feels very real. But yeah, you have to really

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digest it. And there's not many happy points,

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you know, like just when you think that their

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situation cannot get much worse, it somehow does.

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And it's a look into the reality of like an experience

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that. maybe has not been portrayed so much in

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Indian cinema. Maybe that's why it was so popular

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at the time. But it was a big hit. She was like,

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it was her first film, but it made like $7 million,

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which is pretty good for like the tiny, tiny

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budget. They, you know, I think their budget

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was like less than a hundred thousand. She studied

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at Harvard. She like went to university in India

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and then studied in Harvard, then went back to

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film this. But it was one of two Indian films

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to get Oscar nominations. And it was like a big,

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big, it got like swept the awards at Cannes and

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stuff. I didn't realize this until after watching

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it too, but it was a really big international

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hit and tuned in a lot of people to what was

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going on in Mumbai too at the time. We also found

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out that the movie is one of New York Times pick

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for best movies of the day. The top 1 ,000 best

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movies of all time. It was just in there. That's

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huge. Yeah. Do you feel like it belongs? Yeah.

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I think, you know, even though we think the movie

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is really dark and maybe too real, I think it

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does tell a great story. It does open up my view

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on, you know, how kids try to survive in a land

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that is just not kind to them. I think... i think

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like how when you tackle a subject like that

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it's a it's a very delicate matter and then how

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at the point of how you tackle this subject how

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you produce such a film right so um like while

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being empathetic this film still uh for me like

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kind of borders in the territory of urban middle

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class background or a very highly educated person

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from an elite sector section of the society coming

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and with a very empathetic point of view looking

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at these kids it's uh but still does the job

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in a very well -mannered way i think they set

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up the whole i mean when we talk about the production

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process we'll go into that and then uh like they

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did the whole workshop with the kids teaching

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them how to like do the acting she mentioned

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a lot of times it's the most important thing

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for them to teach those kids was like how to

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concentrate on things because being on street

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while growing up on street they cannot focus

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on one thing so to do this kind so they just

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acted out their reality of their surroundings

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right so these films while looking at it from

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a outsider point of view it's very um full of

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good intention empathetic but there goes the

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thing like it's uh it's it doesn't look very

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empowering but it is very documenting this the

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situation i don't think there were films that

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documented this the reality of street kids that

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well before this film like in india She said

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that she was inspired by this Brazilian film

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called Pissot, but where the main character gets

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killed later on in real life, like the main actor.

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So she was very touched by that. So they started

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the foundation as well. Salaam Balak, Balak means

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boys. So foundation, which grew a lot. So yeah,

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I think this is how, if you want to tackle this

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subject. this is this is the most ethical way

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i think it's like you can go about it at the

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okay it's a different point of view a point of

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discussion whether you should make a film like

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that or not but that's a different topic people

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talk about like you know like if something's

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poverty porn or not yeah you know and i think

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that's always like kind of dangerous but you

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also want to give voices to those people too

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you know like i don't want to see just films

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about rich people either but it's a super fine

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line you know you don't want to be exploitative

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You don't want to just do poverty porn. And you

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also don't want to make it oriental, right? Like

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you don't want to make them seem like you're

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like looking at this weird alien subculture or

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anything like that. And I think it's hard to

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describe, you know, the differences, but it's

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just, yeah, purely in the approach and the intention

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of the filmmaking. And I think, you know, in

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an interview that Kelly turned us on to, the

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director said that. She was kind of inspired

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by the film when she was around those kids and

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saw that they were fighting to be children at

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all costs. So like as much as the world was preventing

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them, they were going to like fight for their

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right to be children, you know? And so I think

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she really respects the subjects. I think she

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like admires it. And I think you see that through

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the filmmaking too. Like at no point is she looking

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down on them. It's not judgmental. um it's very

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humanistic very empathetic like you said and

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it's just looking at kids and the adults just

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like living in the world around them that they're

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kind of just forced to interact with you you

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just have a very three -dimensional view of these

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people and i think that's why it's not just like

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despair poverty porn and and like it's sad but

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there's a lot of good moments too the kids are

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happy and like you know they they find pockets

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of uh moments where they can like laugh and stuff

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I think ethics is a very important conversation

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in a movie like this. And, you know, she had

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workshops and all for the kids, which we can

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talk about later. But I do question the extent

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of ethics that were involved in when it comes

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to approaching the children. A lot of them are

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street children. They don't have any parental

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guardianship or anything like that. And to kind

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of bring them into a workshop to get their stories,

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film them. The question then comes to, did they

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benefit from this at all? You know, like what

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stories were they fed? Was any of the proceeds,

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like the funds that the movie raised, was any

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of this eventually passed down to the children?

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They started a foundation 10 years later, the

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Salam Balak Trust Foundation. At the same time.

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No. I think it was 1998. And then another NGO

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started from this movie. But, you know, the main

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actor, Shafiq Syed, he ends up kind of just going

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back to live in the slums. I think he has a rickshaw

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company. We also don't really know under what

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conditions these children were brought in, how

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their stories were told. If they received any

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care, a lot of what they were acting out was

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also quite traumatic. They were placed in, right,

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it's a traumatic plot line. There's a scene where

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like the guy kind of like just raises the girl

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up in the air, hanging over the balcony and shakes

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her. So then there's also a question of was there

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any like aftercare that was also provided for

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them beyond just treating them like subjects

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and making the storyline. I hope that there was.

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There was. I mean, they had therapists. You had

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a trust fund for the main actors. So, like, they

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were paid, and then they had a trust fund set

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up that, like, paid them out over time and then

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used proceeds from the movie for other kids in

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that situation. One of the kids, she said, like,

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ended up living in California. Yeah, he got adopted

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by one of the crew members. Yeah, so, like, he

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had a totally, completely different life. But,

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yeah, the main guy lives in Bangalore and has

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an auto rickshaw. But that's, you know, like,

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life, too. Like, what? I mean... it's not every

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movie's responsibility to make sure every person

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gets rich. Like, how much can you possibly, you

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know, do? I don't know. The trust was made, built

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in the same time. I just checked. It's in 1988,

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on 1988. And, yeah, so she had addressed later

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on an interview about, like, what happened to

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Shafiq Saik. So... actually like he's he's pretty

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old he was like older he was like 15 year old

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at the point of filming but you can see like

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how he looks so small because of the malnutrition

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being on the being a street kid so he comes from

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a family where like both parents are like alcohol

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were alcoholic and he didn't have a nice childhood

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so he fled bangalore to bombay he was living

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in the street of bombay and after this film like

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he did certain roles in started to do in tvc

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tv drama and stuff but no one could make him

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act because uh they were going in a very point

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of point of view of like okay performing acting

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right while this film was like workshopped and

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they just he just did what his life was and yeah

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so the workshop she she said she's very specific

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she didn't teach him how to act there was six

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week workshops but the main thing was not teaching

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them how to act it was teaching him how to not

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act like how to be natural on the camera. And

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so for six weeks, they're just doing improv games

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and stuff to be natural on camera. And that looks

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great for this film, but that doesn't translate

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into being in other films because they don't

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know how to act. They just know how to be natural.

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Yeah, I mean, I don't think we have much evidence

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or anything of how those events took place at

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the time, how the workshops were, if any care

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was provided. But I think if a movie like that

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was produced today, it would definitely come

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a lot more under scrutiny for sensationalizing.

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people's trauma like these street kids trauma

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and i think there'd be a lot more conversation

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around how to support them whether it's ethical

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like whether it's trauma -informed the way that

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they're approaching these children that conversations

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that i don't think were probably so mainstream

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yet back then you know and yeah yeah reliving

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trauma is right when i listened to an interview

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i guess i just felt like i was not convinced

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that like they were placed at the center of it

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i just felt like it was her storyline, her vision,

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and also her trying to make this movie kind of

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appeal to the West. And I do see elements of

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sensationalizing their trauma. I think it's reality

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for sure. And like, you know, there's an element

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where she took their stories, their real lived

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experiences and put it in the plot. So we can't

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say that it's sensationalizing it, but I do feel

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like there's a lot of just emphasis on their

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sadness and their pain. I guess these days we're

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more used to seeing movies made in a more empowering

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light. Like we watch the other one, all the lights

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that shine. All we imagine as lights. All we

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imagine as lights, where it's also a similar

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plot, where it takes place in the slums of Bombay.

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But we see that painted as more of an empowering

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narrative, where they're in control of their

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lives. They can control their outcomes. So because

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this is around children, it's a lot more of a

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stark reality. They can't control. That's the

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whole unfortunate point, is like they're in this

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situation where they're just reacting to... uh

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the hand being dealt with them you know what

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i mean it is and it is frustrating like you do

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get that watching the film they're they're children

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they can't do anything you know and i would kind

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of feel robbed if it was just a happy ending

00:13:17.830 --> 00:13:19.649
like if it was just like an oliver twist thing

00:13:19.649 --> 00:13:21.350
because there aren't a lot of similarities like

00:13:21.350 --> 00:13:24.090
oliver twist i got the very like dickensian you

00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:26.710
know kids kind of wandering the streets and stuff

00:13:26.710 --> 00:13:29.509
and how sometimes like the institutions are worse

00:13:29.509 --> 00:13:33.259
than the street um But Oliver Twist has a cop

00:13:33.259 --> 00:13:34.860
out ending. We're like, oh, yeah, like a rich

00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:37.620
family. You have a good life. OK, bye. And that

00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:42.100
just isn't realistic, you know. But I you know,

00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:43.840
when the director said it's these kids fighting

00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:45.840
to be children at all costs. Like, again, I think

00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.919
she's not like taking glee and watching them

00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.519
suffer. It's about finding happiness despite

00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:56.820
the suffering you're around. Well, let's get

00:13:56.820 --> 00:13:59.639
to the plot. Yeah. I guess I'll just put in a

00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:01.559
warning. A little warning. Because it deals with

00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.779
children, right? Just for our listeners. This

00:14:04.779 --> 00:14:08.059
movie is a heavy one. It deals with like prostitution,

00:14:08.379 --> 00:14:12.879
child beating, drug use. The whole shebang. The

00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.200
whole shebang, I guess. Like the themes presented.

00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.179
But it's a grim reality of things. Our main character

00:14:19.179 --> 00:14:22.120
is basically like this 11 -year -old boy. His

00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:32.940
name is Krishna. His name is Krishna. There was

00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:34.559
one point in the movie where he explains that

00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.799
he was being bullied by his older brother. And

00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:44.600
as retaliation, he just decided to burn his bike.

00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:47.759
And then as punishment, his mother took him to

00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.019
a traveling circus where she told him that he

00:14:51.019 --> 00:14:54.340
should make enough money to pay back for the

00:14:54.340 --> 00:14:57.480
damages done. She just abandoned him there. How

00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:01.039
much? I think it was 500 rupees. Yeah. I want

00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:02.620
to take note of this because she mentioned this

00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:04.779
in the interview, but that was a brilliant plot

00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:08.259
structure of like, we know pretty soon like how

00:15:08.259 --> 00:15:10.740
much he needs. And we see him throughout this

00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:13.659
time, either like adding or deducting from that

00:15:13.659 --> 00:15:17.379
total he needs, which is 500 rupees, which is

00:15:17.379 --> 00:15:19.700
like a really, really brilliant way to plot this

00:15:19.700 --> 00:15:22.659
kind of loose film with just. Every, every interaction

00:15:22.659 --> 00:15:24.799
you see, like every time he drops the cup when

00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.279
he's selling tea, it hurts you. Cause like, you

00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:29.100
know, he just got like shorter away from his

00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:31.759
goal. I did the math really quick too. If you

00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:35.240
adjust for inflation, uh, 500 rupees now is like

00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.960
6 ,500 rupees. It's about 80 us dollars. Okay.

00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:43.259
So when I first did the math, I did like a bunch

00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:45.659
of rupees. It was like $5. I wanted to like break

00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:48.620
the TV and just like hand $5 to this kid. I was

00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:50.860
like, that's crazy. But it is, it's like $80.

00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:54.940
Which is very hard for a kid to make, obviously.

00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:58.539
And with this kid, he's like, I guess I'll say

00:15:58.539 --> 00:16:00.700
it right now. This kid cannot catch a break.

00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:04.320
Throughout the movie, shit just keeps happening

00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.039
to him. This poor little guy. And the first thing

00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:12.039
that happens is that his circus boss told him

00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:14.080
to do some errand or something. And then the

00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.779
guy, he went away. And then the moment he came

00:16:16.779 --> 00:16:19.600
back, the entire circus was just gone. It was

00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.360
like a whole wasteland. And then he has no choice

00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.179
but to travel to the nearest city, which is Bombay.

00:16:26.580 --> 00:16:30.840
He gets his possessions stolen from some of the

00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.399
street kids. And then he tries to get like a

00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.840
job through delivering chai. Yeah. And then like,

00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.220
you know, this guy that employs him, he keeps

00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:42.480
like, you know, telling him that you'll make

00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.320
enough money, you know, if you keep it up. But

00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.960
like the reality of the situation is that it's

00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:50.620
going to take... An eternity. Maybe not even

00:16:50.620 --> 00:16:52.700
an eternity. Like forever of his life. If he

00:16:52.700 --> 00:16:56.299
had to like go through with delivering chai.

00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.039
I think he was making two rupees a day. He said.

00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:01.799
So the guy's keeping a ledger and he makes two

00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.160
rupees a day doing this. Yeah. And then so you

00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.759
have like these street kids and they're like

00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:08.819
basically you could call them his friends or

00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:13.039
just like compatriots. And we also have this

00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:16.460
like drug dealer. Like he's his name goes by

00:17:16.460 --> 00:17:19.549
Chillum. Yeah. So it's funny because the other

00:17:19.549 --> 00:17:22.049
day, Keeley was just talking to me about chillum.

00:17:23.009 --> 00:17:24.849
I don't know what it's called. You call it a

00:17:24.849 --> 00:17:28.349
drug? It's a smoking pipe. Chillum is for pot.

00:17:28.789 --> 00:17:31.609
Pot. Right. Is it like a slang term in India?

00:17:31.869 --> 00:17:34.170
No, no, no. It's a legitimate term. Chillum is

00:17:34.170 --> 00:17:38.869
like for smoking weed in that clay. Or then like

00:17:38.869 --> 00:17:45.289
terracotta or stone made pot. You see at one

00:17:45.289 --> 00:17:48.609
point they were using it. And this guy is like...

00:17:48.609 --> 00:17:51.509
He's addicted to this thing called brown sugar.

00:17:51.809 --> 00:17:54.390
Which according to Keely, I think you said it

00:17:54.390 --> 00:17:57.289
was like remnants of like heroin. Yeah. Heroin

00:17:57.289 --> 00:17:58.569
production. Yeah, it looks like heroin. Yeah.

00:17:58.930 --> 00:18:02.089
And this guy, he's like basically like a drug

00:18:02.089 --> 00:18:05.650
dealer in Bombay. And basically he works for

00:18:05.650 --> 00:18:09.650
this... I want to call him like the big boss

00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:12.950
drug dealer slash pimp. His name is, like, Baba?

00:18:13.210 --> 00:18:15.809
Baba. The director calls him Mr. Fix -It, or,

00:18:15.829 --> 00:18:17.769
like, the Fix -It guy. That, like, every little

00:18:17.769 --> 00:18:19.750
kind of street corner has a Fix -It guy where,

00:18:19.809 --> 00:18:22.170
like, yeah, he, like, quote -unquote, tames,

00:18:22.210 --> 00:18:24.849
you know, the prostitutes and, like, sells drugs

00:18:24.849 --> 00:18:28.390
and just kind of runs the street. And Baba here,

00:18:28.509 --> 00:18:30.609
he's, like, he runs, like, this brothel. No,

00:18:30.670 --> 00:18:32.970
not... But he does. It's a brothel, yeah. He

00:18:32.970 --> 00:18:34.789
doesn't run it. He doesn't run it. He just, like,

00:18:34.789 --> 00:18:37.890
has... He's involved with it and kind of, like,

00:18:37.970 --> 00:18:39.589
yeah, he's the Fix -It guy. Sometimes they need

00:18:39.589 --> 00:18:42.180
his help. And he like gets money from it. So

00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:44.660
there's this entire plot of a brothel. And there's

00:18:44.660 --> 00:18:47.019
this like matriarch who's like keeping these

00:18:47.019 --> 00:18:49.099
women, these young women in line who have no

00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:52.579
homes or whatever. And at some point in the movie,

00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:55.519
they managed to bring in this beautiful teenage

00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:00.019
girl that some people think she's like nicknamed

00:19:00.019 --> 00:19:03.519
Sweet 16. Just because she's 16 years old. And

00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.910
she's really pretty. She's a virgin which makes

00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:10.230
it more desirable I guess. And she's being sold

00:19:10.230 --> 00:19:13.990
by her uncle. Being sold by her uncle. So that's

00:19:13.990 --> 00:19:17.869
her. This woman is like… Gains the attention

00:19:17.869 --> 00:19:23.789
of our little guy. Krishna. Krishna, yes. And

00:19:23.789 --> 00:19:27.710
let's just mention the girl doesn't speak… Hindi.

00:19:27.869 --> 00:19:30.569
Hindi. Do you know what she speaks? No, she never

00:19:30.569 --> 00:19:33.150
spoke. She never talked. Yeah. But she doesn't

00:19:33.150 --> 00:19:34.670
know… She doesn't understand what people are

00:19:34.670 --> 00:19:36.849
saying. And no one… She doesn't speak. Yeah.

00:19:37.289 --> 00:19:41.730
And then Baba… Not only is he like the local

00:19:41.730 --> 00:19:45.230
boss and everything… He also has a wife. I think

00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:47.509
her name is like Rekha or something. Rekha. Yeah.

00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:52.690
She's also a prostitute. And she is kind of like

00:19:52.690 --> 00:19:55.950
this woman that… Wants to get away from the situation

00:19:55.950 --> 00:20:00.180
that they're in. To make matters even more depressing,

00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:03.759
I would say, is that both Baba and Rekha have

00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:08.880
a daughter named Manju. She's like this little

00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:13.579
girl. And this little girl also really gets treated

00:20:13.579 --> 00:20:17.920
pretty badly. They make her sleep outside. Her

00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:21.019
father doesn't give her any attention. It's kind

00:20:21.019 --> 00:20:24.690
of abusive. Even though she's been conditioned

00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:28.369
to like love him unconditionally. Well, he's

00:20:28.369 --> 00:20:32.529
just like the only stable guy in that area. Yeah.

00:20:32.750 --> 00:20:34.309
I think she's an interesting character because

00:20:34.309 --> 00:20:36.250
it goes to show that even though she has parents,

00:20:36.390 --> 00:20:38.910
her situation is also quite grim. And they show

00:20:38.910 --> 00:20:40.750
in parallel to the other street kids that don't

00:20:40.750 --> 00:20:43.150
have parents. That's true. And then Manju here,

00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:45.289
she's also, you know, she goes along with the

00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:47.589
kids and they try to, you know, make ends meet.

00:20:47.849 --> 00:20:51.849
So, yeah. So it begins with like, so they live

00:20:51.849 --> 00:20:54.759
in this like, railway station which one was it

00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.460
kiwi it was like a i i don't think they've shown

00:20:57.460 --> 00:21:02.519
the railway station name i i i i might have missed

00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:05.079
it but it was not that important because uh definitely

00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:07.599
they didn't show it again and again maybe in

00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:10.819
passing but like yeah it's it's a it's a brothel

00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:14.700
area next to a railway station kind of situation

00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:18.019
which is very common in mumbai like no train

00:21:18.019 --> 00:21:22.049
train is uh one of the core public transport

00:21:22.049 --> 00:21:25.589
system there yeah anyway so one thing that i

00:21:25.589 --> 00:21:28.009
noticed is that krishna gets like a nickname

00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:31.509
of some sort it's like called chaipao yeah i

00:21:31.509 --> 00:21:35.349
don't know what it means it might mean in something

00:21:35.349 --> 00:21:38.210
in slang in marathi or in bombay street language

00:21:38.210 --> 00:21:42.289
i couldn't understand it might be has to do with

00:21:42.289 --> 00:21:46.009
that he sells chai so it can be chaipu is like

00:21:46.009 --> 00:21:50.430
something a boy who sells tea it can be yeah

00:21:50.890 --> 00:21:53.549
So, yeah, like, so that being said, like, Chaipu

00:21:53.549 --> 00:21:56.710
has, like, this, like, routine, right? He gets,

00:21:56.809 --> 00:22:00.650
like, he gets, like, tea from the vendor and

00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:03.450
then delivers it across the street. Meanwhile,

00:22:03.549 --> 00:22:05.089
all the while getting beaten up by the other

00:22:05.089 --> 00:22:09.150
kids. And, like, you also have Chillum, this

00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:12.170
drug dealer, who kind of, like, kind of, like,

00:22:12.210 --> 00:22:13.609
I don't know. I wouldn't use the word trick,

00:22:13.650 --> 00:22:16.089
but, like, kind of, like, tells the boy to, like,

00:22:16.089 --> 00:22:21.069
leave some of the money in this, like, hidden

00:22:21.069 --> 00:22:24.210
space of a wall. The brick wall. The brick wall.

00:22:24.910 --> 00:22:27.190
There's a loose brick, and he's like, look, if

00:22:27.190 --> 00:22:28.769
you pull the brick out, you can hide money behind

00:22:28.769 --> 00:22:30.549
it, which is like, hey, I'm going to steal this

00:22:30.549 --> 00:22:33.130
from you later, obviously. You know that's a

00:22:33.130 --> 00:22:35.990
bad idea. But he frames it in a way where you

00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:38.230
can put money away from the other kids where

00:22:38.230 --> 00:22:41.150
they won't touch it. But you can tell this kid

00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:44.630
is getting taken advantage of, and he has no

00:22:44.630 --> 00:22:48.710
clue whatsoever. Imagine how dumb you were at

00:22:48.710 --> 00:22:51.730
11. And then, like, you're on the street and,

00:22:51.789 --> 00:22:54.109
like, everyone's out to get you. Like, I would

00:22:54.109 --> 00:22:56.730
be taking advantage of every second of the day.

00:22:57.130 --> 00:23:00.809
Yeah. And so, like, Chillum, like, takes Chaipu

00:23:00.809 --> 00:23:03.650
to, like, across the city where they, like, sell

00:23:03.650 --> 00:23:07.289
some drugs to foreigners. And I guess, in a way,

00:23:07.329 --> 00:23:08.809
we get, like, this scene where they're, like,

00:23:08.829 --> 00:23:10.470
they're, like, walking towards, like, a graveyard.

00:23:10.589 --> 00:23:13.150
And then they… Like, we get… We're introduced

00:23:13.150 --> 00:23:15.930
to Chillum's, like, vices where he's, like, doing

00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:19.799
brown sugar and, you know, kind of… Becomes like

00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.240
I think that scene embodies like this like kind

00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.240
of he has like this mentorship to Chaipu and

00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:28.400
like he tells them like how like Nobody's friends

00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.039
like we all gotta look out after each other after

00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.339
your own look out on your own He's like the artful

00:23:34.339 --> 00:23:38.539
Dodger You've all seen Oliver Twist. Yeah, he's

00:23:38.539 --> 00:23:41.039
like that, but he's a heroin addict Artful Dodger

00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:44.039
was not and artful Dodger would had kind of good

00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:45.839
intentions. This guy does not he's a heroin addict.

00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:48.930
You can't really says And there are other times

00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:53.109
like he… When like Chaipu seems to like… Like

00:23:53.109 --> 00:23:55.589
him. Because like every time he's in need of

00:23:55.589 --> 00:23:59.730
like… When… There are moments in later in the

00:23:59.730 --> 00:24:01.849
movie where Chillum is like going through withdrawals.

00:24:01.890 --> 00:24:06.589
Because he eventually gets fired from Baba. And

00:24:06.589 --> 00:24:09.470
like he would… Like this kid would do anything

00:24:09.470 --> 00:24:11.329
for Chillum. Like they would… He would try to

00:24:11.329 --> 00:24:14.329
tell them that like… He's sick again and he's

00:24:14.329 --> 00:24:18.250
in need of medicine. Yeah. He went… to the other

00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:21.710
like other part of this town to a different dealer

00:24:21.710 --> 00:24:25.230
to score for him like be for so that like he

00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:27.910
can like fight off the because i don't think

00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:30.809
like he's also understanding what withdrawal

00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:33.970
is like he just know that he needs his fix and

00:24:33.970 --> 00:24:37.930
then he's like he even got involved in a like

00:24:37.930 --> 00:24:42.559
a small like burglary yeah yeah okay you'll come

00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.319
to that later yeah yeah we'll get we'll get there

00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:47.460
yeah yeah so he does a lot of things for just

00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:50.720
you know helping him right uh chillum does mention

00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:52.720
during that mentorship scene that he mentions

00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.819
like the chiller room yeah the chiller room which

00:24:55.819 --> 00:24:58.200
is like which you later find out is like a juvie

00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:02.059
detention center in the movie and that'll come

00:25:02.059 --> 00:25:04.640
into play like a little later but yeah there

00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:09.319
are times where like um chaipu goes to visit

00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:12.039
manju Yeah. And they play together. Like they're

00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:14.700
playmates. And then they're like... You get like

00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:18.180
this weird little jealousy bit where like...

00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:21.319
Yeah. He often goes to play with Manju. But then

00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.019
like he's also... This little boy has like this...

00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:30.079
Crush on the sweet 16. Yeah. Like what Adam is

00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.460
about to say. He does steal a bird for her. And

00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:35.200
then Manju gets like... jealous jealous i wouldn't

00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.119
say like love jealous it's more like she's so

00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.480
lonely in a way she just wants attention no one

00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.359
gives her attention like and they all just want

00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:43.240
her to go away because she's in like a brothel

00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.500
and like it sucks so she just literally wants

00:25:45.500 --> 00:25:47.619
like a friend to play with and yeah she she she

00:25:47.619 --> 00:25:49.799
also like likes him like you know i think it's

00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.539
like those childhood crush well i just need a

00:25:52.539 --> 00:25:57.519
friend yeah so yeah she looks at him giving all

00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:00.099
the attention to the new sweet 16 girl and he

00:26:00.099 --> 00:26:02.420
also she also complains about it to her mother

00:26:02.420 --> 00:26:04.579
like you know like even chaipu doesn't play with

00:26:04.579 --> 00:26:07.640
me anymore all she is like he always wants to

00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:09.740
talk to that girl and like giving gift to her

00:26:09.740 --> 00:26:12.740
dead girl and then and then yeah then there's

00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:15.640
very sweet scene with the mother where the uh

00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.279
in in there is a power cut and the mother and

00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:21.859
daughter plays with the you know hand puppet

00:26:21.859 --> 00:26:25.319
shadow oh yeah in front of the candle And then

00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.740
the light comes back and also with, along with

00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:32.539
the light, customer comes back. That was like,

00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.940
yeah. What I like is that, you know, she does

00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:38.099
show them as children. Sometimes they're annoying.

00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.059
Sometimes they're means to each other. Sometimes,

00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.740
you know, they make bad decisions. Sometimes

00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:46.299
they're super fun. And, you know, like she does

00:26:46.299 --> 00:26:49.259
show them like how children act. And I do really

00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:52.400
appreciate that. And adding to what Adam says,

00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.970
like. he decides to burn sweet 16's room to like

00:26:56.970 --> 00:26:59.509
escape with her i don't know where he was going

00:26:59.509 --> 00:27:01.269
what do you think he was gonna go just run away

00:27:01.269 --> 00:27:03.809
they run away for them just run away because

00:27:03.809 --> 00:27:06.089
they did they live in streets like where they're

00:27:06.089 --> 00:27:08.490
gonna go like they don't have idea of home like

00:27:08.490 --> 00:27:11.289
chaipu seems to have a tendency for setting things

00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:13.750
on fire yeah because he does that in the brothel

00:27:13.750 --> 00:27:16.009
and the reason his mom had kicked him out was

00:27:16.009 --> 00:27:18.730
also because he set fire to his brothers Rickshaw

00:27:18.730 --> 00:27:20.650
or something? The brother's client's bike. He

00:27:20.650 --> 00:27:23.250
was a bike mechanic. He brought a bike from his

00:27:23.250 --> 00:27:25.930
client. A little arsonist here. The kid loves

00:27:25.930 --> 00:27:28.730
burning things he doesn't like. And anywhere

00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:31.109
is better than where they are. So whatever. But

00:27:31.109 --> 00:27:33.230
I like that little connection, right? We get

00:27:33.230 --> 00:27:35.849
to see that it's in line with what he's capable

00:27:35.849 --> 00:27:38.509
of. What he does, right? Because you only ever

00:27:38.509 --> 00:27:41.410
get to know about Chaipu's background through

00:27:41.410 --> 00:27:45.329
dialogue. And to have us witness him burning

00:27:45.329 --> 00:27:47.519
something else. It's like very in line with the

00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:50.019
character, right? These kids have agency, you

00:27:50.019 --> 00:27:52.359
know, like they're in these situations that are

00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:54.380
really harsh and they have to figure out what

00:27:54.380 --> 00:27:56.900
to do day by day, but they have agency. Like

00:27:56.900 --> 00:27:59.579
he's not helpless. Like he does try to fight

00:27:59.579 --> 00:28:02.180
back when he can. He has, you know, a strong

00:28:02.180 --> 00:28:04.380
character inside of him that doesn't die. And

00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:07.500
that's like, I think the movie, you know, shows

00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:09.420
you with each kind of kid, they all have like

00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:11.900
a flame inside them still. I like that scene

00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.440
where before he tries to escape like make the

00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.240
help the girl escape so he gives this the jealousy

00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:23.359
thing the love triangle I was calling it so he

00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:29.200
gives Manju a pack of biscuits to hand it over

00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:33.200
to the sweet 16 girl and she just goes there

00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:38.259
and just divorce the whole pack of biscuits while

00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:41.579
crying. And there was like a long ass shot of

00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:44.099
it. And then they're just intercutting with the

00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:47.579
kid playing with another kid on the street and

00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:50.079
waiting for her. And she just like stands in

00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.099
the corner, divorce the whole pack of biscuits

00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:55.640
and comes back like, oh, I have handed it over.

00:28:55.900 --> 00:28:59.039
I mean, that was like such a, that was also very

00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:03.599
assertive from Manju. She's jealous. She's angry

00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.019
that her friend is now like after another girl.

00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.680
So that scene was like really impressionable.

00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:15.240
I liked Manju. Manju becomes very close to the

00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:17.759
audience heart, I guess. Yeah, she has agency.

00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:22.380
And yeah, but you know, as with many things that

00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:26.059
happen in the movie, by setting her, Zui Sixteen's

00:29:26.059 --> 00:29:29.740
room on fire, his actions have a lot of consequences.

00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:32.519
So what happens in that movie? They didn't escape.

00:29:32.779 --> 00:29:37.019
They get caught... By this bouncer guy. And...

00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:41.859
He gets a beating. Chaipu gets a beating. And...

00:29:41.859 --> 00:29:47.039
Sweet 16 gets a visit... From Baba. Who the matriarch

00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:50.460
of the brothel... Orders him to... Tame... And

00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:54.559
I quote... Tame her. And... I'm gonna say that...

00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:57.059
That is like... Just gives me the creeps, man.

00:29:57.140 --> 00:29:59.660
Like that whole... Taming thing. Cause like you

00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:01.990
have that one scene... Where like... Baba kind

00:30:01.990 --> 00:30:03.849
of like breaks the rules a little bit by like

00:30:03.849 --> 00:30:07.809
taking out Sweet Sixteen to like a photoshoot.

00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:12.549
It was like a couple -y photoshoot. Like he just

00:30:12.549 --> 00:30:14.470
goes into full lover boy mode. Full lover boy

00:30:14.470 --> 00:30:16.549
mode. And you can tell that she's like not in

00:30:16.549 --> 00:30:20.009
on it. Like she tries to avoid his like aggressive

00:30:20.009 --> 00:30:23.049
advances. It's just really like… I feel like

00:30:23.049 --> 00:30:25.140
that moment was like that. It really gets under

00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:27.099
your skin, at least for me. But she falls for

00:30:27.099 --> 00:30:28.680
him. She falls for him. And that's how she becomes,

00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:30.799
she gets tamed, right? And it's like the oldest

00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.799
play. So she, she, cause he gives her a little

00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:35.599
bit of attention, which is what all these people

00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.420
are deprived of. He like goes in for like a little

00:30:38.420 --> 00:30:41.700
kiss. She has a photo of them, you know, kind

00:30:41.700 --> 00:30:43.500
of locking eyes that she keeps under her pillow

00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:46.559
now. And she is like totally in love with this

00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.160
guy. She doesn't, you know, understand what he's

00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.019
saying. But, you know, he's like promising her

00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:54.259
that they'll get out eventually. And you know

00:30:54.259 --> 00:30:55.980
that's not going to happen. Which gives you insight

00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.259
into like his relationship with Rekha as well

00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:00.579
and how it probably started. This is probably

00:31:00.579 --> 00:31:02.140
kind of what he does. And then you see that play

00:31:02.140 --> 00:31:04.099
out later because Rekha does have a scene where

00:31:04.099 --> 00:31:06.680
she gets angry and she tells him to go to suite

00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:09.359
16. So obviously like she's old enough now where

00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.680
she's caught on to his tactics. And she knows

00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.640
that there's no happily ever after. And so you

00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.259
see like kind of like... Rekha's character next

00:31:18.259 --> 00:31:20.680
to Sweet 16's character is also quite an interesting

00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:23.539
parallel. That like different stages. Exactly.

00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:27.259
But it's the same process. Exactly. Which happens

00:31:27.259 --> 00:31:31.200
with Chillum also later on. Yeah. Before we go

00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.240
back into all that, I'm going to go back to Chillum

00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.259
a little bit. So Chillum gets, as I mentioned

00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:40.319
before, Chillum gets fired from Baba. And there's

00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.970
like, because of this like weird... I don't want

00:31:42.970 --> 00:31:44.809
to use the word weird, but it's, like, a strange

00:31:44.809 --> 00:31:47.490
scene where, like, there's this, like, foreign

00:31:47.490 --> 00:31:49.829
journalist, like, a female journalist. Like,

00:31:49.849 --> 00:31:54.910
she's white. She goes for an interview with Baba

00:31:54.910 --> 00:32:00.849
and, like, it results him and Baba in, like,

00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:04.910
abusing Chillum, like, beating him up. Well,

00:32:04.970 --> 00:32:07.490
Chillum has, like, a bunch of tea and then Baba

00:32:07.490 --> 00:32:10.430
takes his belt off and then... Starts like whipping

00:32:10.430 --> 00:32:13.410
Chilam's feet. So Chilam has to jump and he's

00:32:13.410 --> 00:32:15.710
like holding this hot tea. So like the tea is

00:32:15.710 --> 00:32:18.049
like burning his hands, but he's trying to like

00:32:18.049 --> 00:32:20.710
not get hit by the bells. So he's just like humiliating

00:32:20.710 --> 00:32:24.349
this person because, you know, he can be charming.

00:32:24.410 --> 00:32:26.950
We see that with Sweet 16 and he's trying to

00:32:26.950 --> 00:32:29.670
be charming with this Western journalist, but

00:32:29.670 --> 00:32:32.630
he's trying to impress in a way that like might

00:32:32.630 --> 00:32:34.589
impress you if you're on the street, but not

00:32:34.589 --> 00:32:38.460
this Western person. He doesn't understand. how

00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:41.019
to speak that language and so his way of trying

00:32:41.019 --> 00:32:44.480
to impress them just becomes a humiliating mark

00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:46.940
on him she walks away and then he realizes like

00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:50.519
that he looked like a shithead but then he just

00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:53.039
makes him get mad at chill more for like making

00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:56.019
him look out to be bad in his eyes yeah yeah

00:32:56.019 --> 00:32:58.180
that's that's that's well said and then you know

00:32:58.180 --> 00:33:01.680
because of the embarrassment uh baba fires chill

00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:05.799
and takes the drugs away from him and throughout

00:33:06.750 --> 00:33:09.329
the remainder of the movie, Chillum goes through,

00:33:09.410 --> 00:33:12.250
like, ultimate withdrawals and, like, Chaipu

00:33:12.250 --> 00:33:15.730
feels sorry for him and he decides to try and

00:33:15.730 --> 00:33:19.170
help him out by doing all these, like, like,

00:33:19.170 --> 00:33:21.269
burglary. There's, like, one scene where, like,

00:33:21.349 --> 00:33:24.549
he and Chaipu and the kids rob an old man's house.

00:33:25.150 --> 00:33:27.890
Yeah. Like, just to make ends meet. And because

00:33:27.890 --> 00:33:29.869
of all that, because they're trying to get Chillum

00:33:29.869 --> 00:33:34.210
some drugs, it costs Chaipu his job as well.

00:33:34.450 --> 00:33:37.660
Like... He couldn't make it back in time for

00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:41.900
his shift delivering tea. Yeah, so he gets fired

00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:45.680
by the tea vendor for doing all the chaos and

00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.960
everything, whatever. He just needed a reason

00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:51.140
because these kids are amply, like there are

00:33:51.140 --> 00:33:55.559
enough kids to hire from. And then he just fires

00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:59.700
him and then gives him whatever he had earned

00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:02.460
by that time, which was like 400 rupee. And he

00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:05.539
deducts like 50 rupee. From there, for all the

00:34:05.539 --> 00:34:10.059
trouble, quote -unquote trouble, he made for

00:34:10.059 --> 00:34:14.179
the vendor. So he just gets 350 rupees. And then

00:34:14.179 --> 00:34:17.539
he's like, okay, next morning, I'm going to go

00:34:17.539 --> 00:34:22.360
live for my hometown. Instead of 500, it's only

00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.219
350. It's okay, fine. We understand. And then

00:34:25.219 --> 00:34:28.820
what he does, he puts the money in that safe

00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:35.130
box. Chill him. introduced him to and then when

00:34:35.130 --> 00:34:38.010
we saw it i'm like oh my god no bro please not

00:34:38.010 --> 00:34:41.010
there anywhere else and then yeah he leaves the

00:34:41.010 --> 00:34:43.130
remainder of the money in the place that chillum

00:34:43.130 --> 00:34:45.630
told him thinking that it would be like a bank

00:34:45.630 --> 00:34:48.809
or like a you know a safe spot but because chillum

00:34:48.809 --> 00:34:51.550
is all like going through withdrawal and he needs

00:34:51.550 --> 00:34:55.309
some drugs he ends up stealing the money and

00:34:55.309 --> 00:34:58.809
ultimately it kills him he overdoses from the

00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:01.710
drugs that he bought with the money stole Yeah.

00:35:01.769 --> 00:35:03.449
It's like Sonic getting hit and all his coins

00:35:03.449 --> 00:35:09.349
coming out. Yeah. Damn. That's pretty dark. Okay.

00:35:09.469 --> 00:35:11.989
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what it's like,

00:35:12.070 --> 00:35:14.150
Keeley. But like can you tell me like… Is that

00:35:14.150 --> 00:35:16.349
how… So when someone dies on the street like

00:35:16.349 --> 00:35:19.389
that… Do they just like… Carry the corpse through

00:35:19.389 --> 00:35:21.289
the street? Is that like… I've seen that. Yeah.

00:35:21.369 --> 00:35:22.969
I've actually… Carrying corpse through the street

00:35:22.969 --> 00:35:25.269
happens to everyone. Okay. That's the way of

00:35:25.269 --> 00:35:28.059
like… carrying the dead body to the end and then

00:35:28.059 --> 00:35:30.400
given they are poor they don't have no one has

00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:33.099
money maybe like the municipality has some money

00:35:33.099 --> 00:35:36.280
for those like you know homeless people's cremation

00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.139
or something like that so it's just a regular

00:35:38.139 --> 00:35:41.659
process of them carrying the like now they have

00:35:41.659 --> 00:35:44.280
like cars but back then like it was but even

00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.139
now no like last time i've been to i went to

00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:48.340
india like i saw you know processions i was in

00:35:48.340 --> 00:35:52.400
varanasi so yeah yeah but i i do kind of appreciate

00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:56.380
like um carrying dead bodies in the streets I

00:35:56.380 --> 00:35:58.360
think you should be like reminded of death you

00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:01.199
know like as a society I do think it's good I

00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:03.119
think it's as an American I was always hidden

00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.300
from death but I like being in places where like

00:36:05.300 --> 00:36:06.840
death is more out in the open and like you see

00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:08.760
it you know you're like drinking coffee and you

00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.280
just see like a dead body go down the street

00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.699
and it's a good like reminder reminder and we

00:36:13.699 --> 00:36:15.980
should I do think people should be reminded of

00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:17.760
that occasionally I think you should be near

00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:19.940
death and not be afraid of it is that the reason

00:36:19.940 --> 00:36:23.260
they do it I don't know but it's a good thing

00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:28.010
for society anthropological reading in the theological

00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:30.989
reading in the process of cremation and like

00:36:30.989 --> 00:36:33.409
carrying the dead body but i think you have to

00:36:33.409 --> 00:36:36.010
carry the dead body in certain way so now it

00:36:36.010 --> 00:36:38.409
happens uh i mean if you have money it happens

00:36:38.409 --> 00:36:41.489
you know like you know the cars that go in like

00:36:41.489 --> 00:36:43.630
with the dead body but it's still transparent

00:36:43.630 --> 00:36:46.730
the glass is still transparent it's not covered

00:36:46.730 --> 00:36:49.889
so everyone can see a dead body i think going

00:36:49.889 --> 00:36:54.389
through the going like leaving the land of no

00:36:54.389 --> 00:37:00.230
life while being seen by the by everyone that

00:37:00.230 --> 00:37:02.809
you are leaving you're departing i think that's

00:37:02.809 --> 00:37:06.949
a thing that that can be read into but what's

00:37:06.949 --> 00:37:08.670
cool about this shot is that as they're carrying

00:37:08.670 --> 00:37:10.929
the body through the streets they're filming

00:37:10.929 --> 00:37:14.050
by hidden cameras right and so this is just like

00:37:14.050 --> 00:37:16.210
people's normal reaction all the crowds that

00:37:16.210 --> 00:37:19.239
we see in that shot they're not stage actors

00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.519
or anything it's just the public going about

00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:23.480
their day and the kids are rushing through with

00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:26.099
this corpse along the road and they're filming

00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:28.099
through hidden cameras which is quite awesome

00:37:28.099 --> 00:37:30.539
we should say like none of this was filmed on

00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:34.780
sets right yeah um most of like besides like

00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:36.980
the main actors like when he said like it's just

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:39.880
people that are there like she's filming on location

00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:43.639
and some of these locations are like crazy like

00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:47.119
yeah if they had made it if they like made it

00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:48.940
a set it would have been the most elaborate set

00:37:48.940 --> 00:37:52.300
right because it's so realistic um ebert said

00:37:52.300 --> 00:37:54.400
it's like a documentary eye with a narrative

00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:57.840
heart and so yeah like they use hidden cameras

00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:59.980
and they would hide the cameras in like tea carts

00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:03.480
and stuff and so all all of this amazing footage

00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.199
you get of like the the orphanage he goes to

00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:09.519
later and like uh the brothels and stuff and

00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:12.380
the homes that people live in are actual homes

00:38:12.380 --> 00:38:16.329
and it's gives it such a I don't know how to

00:38:16.329 --> 00:38:18.090
call it. I guess like a documentary feel and

00:38:18.090 --> 00:38:20.610
just a very realistic look at everything. Meera

00:38:20.610 --> 00:38:22.929
and I are like as a creative person, like when

00:38:22.929 --> 00:38:25.949
she started, she's like, she went to, I think,

00:38:25.949 --> 00:38:31.909
first as a street theater actor. And then she

00:38:31.909 --> 00:38:35.369
moved to the US for Harvard and then studied,

00:38:35.510 --> 00:38:37.989
like wanted to study theater. But she is, according

00:38:37.989 --> 00:38:40.489
to her, it's like it was not enough impressionable

00:38:40.489 --> 00:38:43.980
and like, you know. she wants to reach a wide

00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:46.900
audience yeah and also like she wanted to she

00:38:46.900 --> 00:38:49.019
I think she comes from that school of thought

00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:52.000
that no creative work can change the world like

00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:54.719
changing the world via the medium of art and

00:38:54.719 --> 00:39:00.000
stuff like that so he didn't find her like that

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:03.400
power in theater so she moved to documentaries

00:39:04.230 --> 00:39:07.210
and then she believe she has talked about like

00:39:07.210 --> 00:39:09.989
her documentary style being like the fly on the

00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:12.710
wall like you know not meddling with the street

00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:15.489
uh with the characters much just like observing

00:39:15.489 --> 00:39:17.949
being as passive as be just be there with the

00:39:17.949 --> 00:39:21.570
camera like she uses the term uh i mean it's

00:39:21.570 --> 00:39:26.630
a cinema movement cinema which is like yeah so

00:39:26.630 --> 00:39:32.329
she she used to think so i so that that uh like

00:39:32.329 --> 00:39:37.929
method of works very well in the narrative, like

00:39:37.929 --> 00:39:41.170
fictional setup of this film. The way she described

00:39:41.170 --> 00:39:42.809
it was quite cool how she did crowd control,

00:39:42.929 --> 00:39:44.650
right? She mentions that she was wearing a salwar

00:39:44.650 --> 00:39:47.329
kameez and she just tied a rope around her waist.

00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:50.150
And so she would give like one person one rope

00:39:50.150 --> 00:39:52.110
at one end and then another person at the other

00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:54.150
end. And that would be kind of like the filming

00:39:54.150 --> 00:39:55.889
area. And then she would just kind of go and

00:39:55.889 --> 00:39:58.409
she compared herself to Indira Gandhi where she's

00:39:58.409 --> 00:40:00.210
trying to like beg people and please the people

00:40:00.210 --> 00:40:02.989
in order for them to like... work with her because

00:40:02.989 --> 00:40:05.070
they only had two or three shots for each scene,

00:40:05.210 --> 00:40:06.929
right? They had to do it in a very time controlled

00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:09.349
way. So she would really have to like get the

00:40:09.349 --> 00:40:12.230
people on her side to believe her and to kind

00:40:12.230 --> 00:40:14.250
of behave in the manner that she wanted to for

00:40:14.250 --> 00:40:16.789
that shot, which is impressive to do in a crowd

00:40:16.789 --> 00:40:18.989
like Bombay. Yeah. And that's why I don't think

00:40:18.989 --> 00:40:21.349
it's poverty porn either is because they're not

00:40:21.349 --> 00:40:23.329
like making a set and throwing dirt on a kid

00:40:23.329 --> 00:40:26.369
and like making it as grim as possible. It's

00:40:26.369 --> 00:40:29.570
just realistic places. Like it just that is what

00:40:29.570 --> 00:40:32.239
it looks like. And so. because she takes like

00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.380
a more documentarian approach and it's not a

00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:37.820
set. you know she is just showing it for what

00:40:37.820 --> 00:40:40.760
it is and uh she's not dressing it up yeah and

00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:42.920
also on a time only not only time control this

00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:45.900
is like the reminiscence of like you know like

00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:49.139
film film making with the film role they were

00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:51.159
like limited with the film stock itself so she

00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:53.099
was she was mentioning it quite a bit of time

00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:55.219
that they didn't have enough film stock to have

00:40:55.219 --> 00:40:57.599
like multiple shot of same multiple take of same

00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.079
shot so only two or three that's why like she

00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.989
had to get it done He doesn't have much film

00:41:02.989 --> 00:41:04.949
stock left. And that's why the kids' concentration

00:41:04.949 --> 00:41:07.769
was so vital. Yeah, for sure. If you have like

00:41:07.769 --> 00:41:09.909
three shots total and you're working with kids

00:41:09.909 --> 00:41:12.150
that have never been in front of a camera before,

00:41:12.309 --> 00:41:15.630
it's crazy. And you just have the public around

00:41:15.630 --> 00:41:18.849
and anything can happen. That is so hard to do.

00:41:18.969 --> 00:41:23.010
Yeah. With a script. Crazy. I still want to know

00:41:23.010 --> 00:41:25.730
how they... So Winnie mentioned it earlier in

00:41:25.730 --> 00:41:30.170
this episode where... Some of the scenes some

00:41:30.170 --> 00:41:32.130
of the shots were pretty harrowing like like

00:41:32.130 --> 00:41:35.309
for one the the one where Baba hangs Manju over

00:41:35.309 --> 00:41:37.949
the railing Yeah, like he shakes her up like

00:41:37.949 --> 00:41:42.550
that See we find out did anyone just real I think

00:41:42.550 --> 00:41:44.889
I mean just seems so that's just crazy to me

00:41:44.889 --> 00:41:47.429
Yeah, that's just so scary. He was doing a Michael

00:41:47.429 --> 00:41:49.710
Jackson. Yeah the Michael. Yeah, I did think

00:41:49.710 --> 00:41:51.809
of Michael Jackson Just shaking the baby over

00:41:51.809 --> 00:41:55.630
the balcony. Oh Blanket. Oh, yeah, he did that.

00:41:55.670 --> 00:41:57.670
Michael Jackson did a blanket I don't remember

00:41:57.670 --> 00:41:59.570
that. I was thinking of Lion King. No, no, no.

00:41:59.570 --> 00:42:02.849
It was... That's a totally different vibe right

00:42:02.849 --> 00:42:05.889
there. Yeah, Rafiki was such a dick to that baby.

00:42:05.969 --> 00:42:09.010
Just hanging it over the rock. Like shaking it.

00:42:09.090 --> 00:42:11.650
It was so rude to the new king like that. Do

00:42:11.650 --> 00:42:13.590
you want to like put the circle of life over

00:42:13.590 --> 00:42:17.769
the part where Baba puts Manju over? Rafiki like

00:42:17.769 --> 00:42:19.730
hits prostitutes with a stick. He's like the

00:42:19.730 --> 00:42:21.690
pimp of the town. I think we should just end

00:42:21.690 --> 00:42:24.750
up going further. I'm so scared to make any jokes.

00:42:25.150 --> 00:42:27.260
Alright, so what happens next? Okay. So okay.

00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:31.539
Chillum steals the drugs. The money. Chillum

00:42:31.539 --> 00:42:34.900
steals the money to get the drugs. He dies. And

00:42:34.900 --> 00:42:39.099
he dies. And Chaipu goes back to zero. No money.

00:42:39.719 --> 00:42:42.920
Video game symbol. Zero over his head. Start

00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:44.260
from the beginning. Start from the beginning.

00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:47.900
And then you know they had to do a few more odd

00:42:47.900 --> 00:42:50.679
jobs. And then like there's a significant part

00:42:50.679 --> 00:42:54.099
where the kids are all working for this rich

00:42:54.099 --> 00:42:57.250
family's Indian wedding. It's like a rich Indian

00:42:57.250 --> 00:43:00.750
wedding, basically. And the kids were like serving

00:43:00.750 --> 00:43:04.989
the food. And in between this, during this whole

00:43:04.989 --> 00:43:08.469
time, Chaipu was like stealing samosas, like

00:43:08.469 --> 00:43:10.929
putting them under his shirt. And we get this

00:43:10.929 --> 00:43:12.530
scene where the kids are like having their break.

00:43:12.670 --> 00:43:17.750
And Manju gives him, Manju has her own savings,

00:43:17.869 --> 00:43:21.769
which she gives to Chaipu. I think she gives

00:43:21.769 --> 00:43:25.210
her part of the wage to Chaipu. To Chaipu. Yeah.

00:43:25.329 --> 00:43:27.889
That was like a hint of hope. As we would say.

00:43:28.030 --> 00:43:29.650
Yeah. These kids help each other when they can.

00:43:29.889 --> 00:43:32.309
They're not evil. But then you know. As with

00:43:32.309 --> 00:43:34.329
all things in this movie. You know. That comes

00:43:34.329 --> 00:43:37.909
to a 180. Where the kids are like making their

00:43:37.909 --> 00:43:40.309
way back home. On a highway. I think it was like

00:43:40.309 --> 00:43:44.210
on a highway at night. And the police was like

00:43:44.210 --> 00:43:47.190
coming up behind them. The other kids managed

00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:51.420
to run away. The police caught up to both Chaipu

00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:54.780
and Manju. And what happens is that, like, they

00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:59.659
found the samosas that Chaipu was hiding. Right?

00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:03.000
And then they decided to, like, send both Chaipu

00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.880
and Manju to the... to separate detention centers.

00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:09.860
Like an orphanage, right? Yeah, Manju goes to

00:44:09.860 --> 00:44:12.920
a kind of... Yeah, I think one... Chaipu goes

00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:17.699
to Juvji as a... He did crime. Because he also

00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:21.340
finds the money. on chaipu and he the police

00:44:21.340 --> 00:44:24.800
uh with all his brutality thinks that like it's

00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:28.420
uh stolen money so sends chaipu to detain like

00:44:28.420 --> 00:44:31.480
juvi and then sends manchu they send manchu to

00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:35.739
uh orphanage i guess yeah yeah and uh yeah it's

00:44:35.739 --> 00:44:39.000
uh he goes back to zero again like it was pretty

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:42.460
such a doubter, you know, at that moment. But,

00:44:42.460 --> 00:44:44.280
you know, with all things said, all the things

00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.219
said, like, Chaipu makes his time in the juvie

00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:50.719
center. He fucking makes himself, like, king,

00:44:50.940 --> 00:44:53.699
you know, dude of the playground. He, like, punches

00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:55.519
the first guy, like, you know, the first prison

00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:58.039
rule of, like, not being a bitch and, like, punching

00:44:58.039 --> 00:44:59.840
the top guy. He does that. He kicks the bully

00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:02.900
in the nuts. He meets this other kid who, like,

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:06.719
who gives him, like, another, like, saying where,

00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:09.079
like, all these kids have been around. For many

00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:11.139
years. Like, some of them. For five years, yeah.

00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:13.139
The ones who, like, live over five years, they're

00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.780
forgotten. Yeah. Which is pretty depressing to

00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:17.920
think about. Forgotten? What are they in for?

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:20.500
Yeah, he forgot, like, the kid forgot what crime

00:45:20.500 --> 00:45:23.380
he even did if he did one. Some kid was in there

00:45:23.380 --> 00:45:26.039
for urinating in public. Yeah. As minor as that.

00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:28.860
Yeah. And, like, the system's not there to help

00:45:28.860 --> 00:45:31.619
them. Chaipu looks at his little name tag and

00:45:31.619 --> 00:45:33.480
it says that he has a hearing in, like, six months

00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:35.599
from now. No one's even told him this. He has

00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:38.840
no idea, like, what's going on. Yeah. And then,

00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:40.619
you know, you are presented with like, yeah,

00:45:40.659 --> 00:45:42.559
we have these institutions there to help people.

00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:45.460
But then why are they happier on the street?

00:45:45.659 --> 00:45:47.579
And that is the thing, like as bad as the street

00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:49.719
can be, like at least these kids have themselves

00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:53.019
or some weird support network or, you know, an

00:45:53.019 --> 00:45:56.780
agency and a family a bit, you know, something,

00:45:56.940 --> 00:46:00.719
some social network. And then in these institutions,

00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:03.139
they're stripped of that and their agency. And

00:46:03.139 --> 00:46:07.250
so. you know, it's not safe. And as dangerous

00:46:07.250 --> 00:46:10.010
as the street can be, yeah, at least they have

00:46:10.010 --> 00:46:11.949
their dignity in that. They tried to get Manju

00:46:11.949 --> 00:46:15.030
out of the orphanage center, right? And the orphanage

00:46:15.030 --> 00:46:19.510
tells Rekha that they're not allowing her to

00:46:19.510 --> 00:46:22.039
do that because she's a prostitute. I also think

00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:24.539
they didn't try. Baba was very happy that the

00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:28.420
kid is out of the way. And it was the mother

00:46:28.420 --> 00:46:31.059
because she has only one person in the world

00:46:31.059 --> 00:46:35.440
who's close to her is her kid. And she's stamped

00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:37.940
with this stigma and is now separated with her

00:46:37.940 --> 00:46:42.340
kid forever. again, the street was at least better.

00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:44.519
At least she could be with her kid. And it kind

00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:46.840
of shows the stigma against prostitutes in India

00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:49.079
as well because they took her child away solely

00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:52.360
on the basis that she is a prostitute. They don't

00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:54.300
know the treatment or anything that she was receiving.

00:46:54.460 --> 00:46:56.519
Yeah, they're not going to save her. They're

00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:58.780
not going to do anything about it. They're just

00:46:58.780 --> 00:47:01.880
punishing her more and giving her less options

00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:05.880
and more despair. And also, Medley... Wait, Kelly's

00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:09.389
dying. Give him a... carry the body out it's

00:47:09.389 --> 00:47:12.849
good for people to see dead chill him chill him

00:47:12.849 --> 00:47:16.829
he needs it fixed he's withdrawing ultimately

00:47:16.829 --> 00:47:20.690
that's the last we see of Manju yeah that's sad

00:47:20.690 --> 00:47:23.949
and she was not talking at all so like from being

00:47:23.949 --> 00:47:26.130
a very talkative child like when they met her

00:47:26.130 --> 00:47:28.050
at the orphanage she did not say a single word

00:47:28.050 --> 00:47:29.429
that was heartbreaking and that's kind of like

00:47:29.429 --> 00:47:31.820
her innocence shattering you know she Because

00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:34.079
she was like a very talkative person. She played

00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.460
a lot. You know, yeah. She was a kind of forceful

00:47:36.460 --> 00:47:38.519
personality and just drained of it all and not

00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:42.119
talking. That was quite sad. Yeah. Yeah. No,

00:47:42.179 --> 00:47:47.019
no. Okay. What a bummer. Going back to… I was

00:47:47.019 --> 00:47:49.139
going to say chill. He's dead. Going back to

00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:52.480
Chaipu. Going back to Chaipu. So he finds out

00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:54.699
that there's like a… He finds out from the kid

00:47:54.699 --> 00:47:57.059
that befriended him that there's like a specific

00:47:57.059 --> 00:48:00.400
part in the juvie center where he can make his

00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:03.320
escape. Which is like going up to the roof and

00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:07.119
then jumping through the barbed wire. They even

00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.119
have to climb a ladder. Which is crazy. They

00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:11.760
shoot it. And again, this is all real. So there's

00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:14.159
like real children's steps like tiptoeing on

00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:16.559
this barbed wire ladder. Wait, no. Keely had

00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:19.000
a theory that it's probably just plastic or rubber.

00:48:19.139 --> 00:48:22.199
Because no way those kids were put in danger

00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:26.059
like that. The barbed wire. Yeah, I think it

00:48:26.059 --> 00:48:28.000
has to be. I don't know. Or else that would be

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:34.400
like endangering a child. One wrong step. There's

00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:36.480
a tiny spot of wood right there. I can see it.

00:48:36.539 --> 00:48:39.619
Do it. Two shots. We don't have time for this

00:48:39.619 --> 00:48:42.340
bullshit. Use your little tiny children toes

00:48:42.340 --> 00:48:44.679
and step on this thing. Now jump from the building.

00:48:45.260 --> 00:48:47.820
Yeah, I think it was fake. Jump into the truck.

00:48:48.380 --> 00:48:50.599
Yeah, no. There were some really awesome shots.

00:48:50.739 --> 00:48:53.019
He like jumped to the fence and then he jumped

00:48:53.019 --> 00:48:58.039
down the truck. It is him doing it. He finds

00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:01.559
out that there's a new chillum in town. A new

00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.199
chillum in town. No, I know. With the same brick

00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:08.340
bank. Yeah, it was super dark. So that means

00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:11.960
like the guy chillum. So how Chaipu... It's not

00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:14.199
his real name. His real name was Krishna. And

00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:16.980
there was a letter writing scene. We can refer

00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:19.699
to that later. So where he says that like no

00:49:19.699 --> 00:49:21.719
one calls him Krishna anymore. Everyone calls

00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:23.920
him Chaipu. So they're all, these people are

00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:26.139
robbed of their name. They're known by their

00:49:26.139 --> 00:49:29.000
job. Chaipu, I think, I think I'm pretty sure

00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:32.099
it's because he's a boy, tea selling boy, Chaipu.

00:49:32.219 --> 00:49:35.800
And then Chilam is also pushing drugs and his

00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:39.789
name is Chilam. And so. definitely the the previous

00:49:39.789 --> 00:49:42.829
chillum guy is also just it's just his role in

00:49:42.829 --> 00:49:47.570
that small uh society that we are looking at

00:49:47.570 --> 00:49:51.409
and then he passed away and then the new person

00:49:51.409 --> 00:49:54.650
who took off his role is also chillum so there

00:49:54.650 --> 00:49:57.670
he's also and we get it's the same it's a very

00:49:57.670 --> 00:50:00.050
similar parallel to like what we see between

00:50:00.050 --> 00:50:03.340
rekha and the sweet 16 like it's just like cycle

00:50:03.340 --> 00:50:06.719
of the same thing happening to say the different

00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:10.119
set of people again and again. Yeah. That's a

00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:11.780
good point. And then he goes to the and then

00:50:11.780 --> 00:50:14.179
Chaipu goes to the brothel and then finds out

00:50:14.179 --> 00:50:17.420
that as we've mentioned before that Sweet 16

00:50:17.420 --> 00:50:21.440
has been tamed and that she is about to be sold

00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:23.840
out to her first client. Yeah. So she's gonna

00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:26.199
lose her virginity to this guy and she keeps

00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:28.800
the image of Baba under her pillow. Yeah. And

00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:31.099
she's like looking at Baba like outside the window

00:50:31.099 --> 00:50:33.690
of the car. She's like driving away with this

00:50:33.690 --> 00:50:37.070
guy. And she's tamed because Chaipu kind of offers

00:50:37.070 --> 00:50:39.150
her a way out, right? He offers to run away with

00:50:39.150 --> 00:50:42.309
her and she doesn't budge this time. So you can

00:50:42.309 --> 00:50:44.369
also see kind of like that fire going out a little

00:50:44.369 --> 00:50:47.409
bit and becoming complacent. That's two downers

00:50:47.409 --> 00:50:50.550
now in under five minutes. And then the third

00:50:50.550 --> 00:50:53.750
downer I would say is that Rekha being fed up

00:50:53.750 --> 00:50:56.050
with not being able to get her child back decides

00:50:56.050 --> 00:50:59.500
and knowing that Sweet16 is into baba decides

00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:02.679
to leave baba yeah right and they get to they

00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:04.880
get into this little fight where he's about to

00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:08.119
like where he's about to abuse her physically

00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:11.920
abuse her and then uh he threatens he like taunts

00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:14.900
her into like killing killing him with a knife

00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:18.260
but then uh reka basically just throws the knife

00:51:18.260 --> 00:51:22.219
away and before anything gets a lot worse like

00:51:22.219 --> 00:51:26.320
at that very moment uh Chaipu was just there.

00:51:26.539 --> 00:51:29.239
Yeah. I guess maybe to look for Manchu. Yeah.

00:51:29.380 --> 00:51:31.579
Probably. Yeah, of course. But he grabs the knife

00:51:31.579 --> 00:51:35.239
and manages to like stab Baba in the back. Yeah.

00:51:35.420 --> 00:51:39.000
And as he's dying as he's on his dying breath

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:41.860
Chaipu manages to grab Rekha and just they just

00:51:41.860 --> 00:51:46.420
run out of their home and basically like we get

00:51:46.420 --> 00:51:49.079
to this scene where like they run into this parade

00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:52.679
that was giving it's like a tribute to ganesh

00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:55.400
yeah so ganapati festival is like a pretty big

00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:58.300
in bombay so this was like the procession where

00:51:58.300 --> 00:52:01.619
they immerse the idol to the sea so after like

00:52:01.619 --> 00:52:04.860
few days in the the puja and all the festival

00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:08.539
going on it's a procession where from the temporary

00:52:08.539 --> 00:52:12.170
spot where the idol is kept They carry it to

00:52:12.170 --> 00:52:15.349
the sea to immerse the idol. And that's where

00:52:15.349 --> 00:52:19.369
the huge procession. This is like as crowded

00:52:19.369 --> 00:52:23.070
as you see. And this is a real footage. Again,

00:52:23.170 --> 00:52:25.469
it's not like with extras and everything. So

00:52:25.469 --> 00:52:28.429
it's like a real footage of Ganapati Festival.

00:52:28.510 --> 00:52:32.309
The filmmakers waited for that day to shoot those

00:52:32.309 --> 00:52:35.889
scenes. She had the time filming production exactly

00:52:35.889 --> 00:52:39.480
right to be able to film that scene. Yeah. Yeah,

00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:42.679
and through that parade, they both, Rekha and

00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:45.019
Chaipu, manage to lose each other in the crowd.

00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:48.579
They get separated. And ultimately, when Chaipu

00:52:48.579 --> 00:52:51.099
manages to break free from that crowd, we just

00:52:51.099 --> 00:52:54.059
get this long -ass shot. We just get this long

00:52:54.059 --> 00:53:00.119
shot of Chaipu just looking so defeated, so broken,

00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:04.800
that, you know, that's it. Yeah, he just killed

00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.579
a man. He got separated from a mother figure

00:53:07.579 --> 00:53:10.650
again. He's just lost in a sea of people. And

00:53:10.650 --> 00:53:12.630
as the director said, this is the moment where

00:53:12.630 --> 00:53:15.429
he becomes a man. And he's letting go of his

00:53:15.429 --> 00:53:17.309
childhood that he was fighting so much to have

00:53:17.309 --> 00:53:20.449
and just accepting his new role as adulthood

00:53:20.449 --> 00:53:24.329
who has to be responsible for himself and sees

00:53:24.329 --> 00:53:27.869
the kind of scenario he's in isn't lying to himself

00:53:27.869 --> 00:53:30.690
anymore. He's alone now. See, as the director

00:53:30.690 --> 00:53:33.449
talked about also, he was holding to the top

00:53:33.449 --> 00:53:37.639
that he carried from the first scene. when he

00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:39.559
ran away from the they're not ran away like he

00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:42.320
came to the bombay first he had this top so he's

00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.260
holding the top at the last scene and the director

00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:46.559
according to the director they couldn't film

00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:49.739
that like she she wanted her him to play with

00:53:49.739 --> 00:53:52.340
the top and shoot the top as well as the final

00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:54.280
scene they couldn't do it because they didn't

00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:57.239
have a limited i mean uh they didn't have enough

00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:00.440
film role left for that shot but they didn't

00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:03.260
want to take the chance because like if he fucked

00:54:03.260 --> 00:54:05.420
it up they didn't have enough takes to do it

00:54:05.420 --> 00:54:07.840
again so They were just like worried that he

00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:09.159
was going to like ruin the take. So they just

00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:12.460
didn't have him spin the top. But so here, like

00:54:12.460 --> 00:54:15.719
how film exists out of director's vision. I mean,

00:54:15.739 --> 00:54:18.400
when he did. So I was also like expecting him

00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:20.880
to spin the top. Like when I was seeing him,

00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:24.539
like just rounding the wear around the top and

00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:28.480
just looking at distance while his childhood

00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:30.780
is like leaving him. He just murdered a guy.

00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:34.539
I was expecting him to spin the top, but he didn't.

00:54:34.889 --> 00:54:37.429
I kind of read it because I didn't know what

00:54:37.429 --> 00:54:39.170
happened behind the scenes. I kind of read it

00:54:39.170 --> 00:54:43.510
like that signifies the childhood leaving him.

00:54:43.570 --> 00:54:47.590
He's not playing with the only toy that he always

00:54:47.590 --> 00:54:50.409
carried with him. So he's not playing with that

00:54:50.409 --> 00:54:54.829
anymore. So it became like an allegory of the

00:54:54.829 --> 00:54:57.570
whole thing in my head. But that's how the medium

00:54:57.570 --> 00:55:01.489
works anyway. Much like the characters are completely

00:55:01.489 --> 00:55:04.269
influenced by their material conditions. Bingo.

00:55:04.889 --> 00:55:07.389
um the movie is too like the director talked

00:55:07.389 --> 00:55:10.030
about possibly having a happy ending or maybe

00:55:10.030 --> 00:55:12.369
he goes home or something but because they had

00:55:12.369 --> 00:55:14.269
no money they couldn't film that they couldn't

00:55:14.269 --> 00:55:16.590
even go there so like just like the characters

00:55:16.590 --> 00:55:18.389
were constrained by money so are these people

00:55:18.389 --> 00:55:22.070
in this i know that's the ultimate uh lesson

00:55:22.070 --> 00:55:26.170
from all of this and uh but then we get you know

00:55:26.170 --> 00:55:28.750
again it's all empathetic i i saw it i loved

00:55:28.750 --> 00:55:32.300
it i did not it's depressing but the the The

00:55:32.300 --> 00:55:35.699
film was so fantastic that... I don't know. I

00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:38.480
didn't get sad. It was just so well done, I thought.

00:55:38.739 --> 00:55:41.639
I mean, it was sad. But I also appreciate those

00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:43.440
stories trying to tell. There was nothing wrong

00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:46.639
with it. It's just like... I don't think... I

00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:49.059
think there was a moment where we were checking

00:55:49.059 --> 00:55:51.360
how much time there is left. And there was like

00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.219
20 minutes left. And we were like, there is no

00:55:53.219 --> 00:55:55.860
way. This is going to get any better. It's not

00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:57.280
going to be... We're not going to get a happy

00:55:57.280 --> 00:56:00.820
ending. At least we got Baba dying. Yeah, but

00:56:00.820 --> 00:56:03.800
that was a semi... positive i want to talk about

00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:08.400
baba i loved this character like he's not a good

00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:11.900
character but the acting and the and his character

00:56:11.900 --> 00:56:15.239
was so fascinating i i really liked it like i

00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:19.400
think he has like a presence and i think the

00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:21.840
actor somehow shows in his eyes like everything

00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:25.139
he's seen and what he likes to do and what he

00:56:25.139 --> 00:56:27.159
doesn't like to do just like everyone's filling

00:56:27.159 --> 00:56:30.539
a role everyone needs a fix it right And for

00:56:30.539 --> 00:56:32.519
him to just not be on the street as like another

00:56:32.519 --> 00:56:34.539
heroin addict, you know, he kind of did what

00:56:34.539 --> 00:56:37.820
he had to do to be in as good a position as he

00:56:37.820 --> 00:56:41.860
ended up being in. I don't think he willingly

00:56:41.860 --> 00:56:44.579
do this in another scenario. I don't think he

00:56:44.579 --> 00:56:48.340
like gets off on like abusing people. It's just

00:56:48.340 --> 00:56:51.820
some, I think, I think some people have to do

00:56:51.820 --> 00:56:55.059
that to get. higher up but yeah you see some

00:56:55.059 --> 00:56:57.179
moments of empathy especially when sweet 16 is

00:56:57.179 --> 00:56:59.360
being driven away you kind of see her see him

00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:01.559
look at her and you get this moment where like

00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:03.679
it's clear that he has enough self -awareness

00:57:03.679 --> 00:57:06.019
to know that what he's doing is wrong and to

00:57:06.019 --> 00:57:09.079
kind of recognize it but also that's just part

00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:11.059
of his job that's just part of the identity that

00:57:11.059 --> 00:57:13.260
he has built in the streets to gain the respect

00:57:13.260 --> 00:57:15.849
and the privilege that he does have And compared

00:57:15.849 --> 00:57:18.010
to all people around him, it's in a better that

00:57:18.010 --> 00:57:19.650
puts him in a better position. So, yeah, he's

00:57:19.650 --> 00:57:21.750
just going to keep doing what he has to do. I

00:57:21.750 --> 00:57:23.730
think that's a good point. You can see the guilt.

00:57:23.949 --> 00:57:26.269
You can't like he does what he has to do, but

00:57:26.269 --> 00:57:28.909
you can see that he feels guilty at times. And

00:57:28.909 --> 00:57:31.289
I like that the movie shows that. But then you

00:57:31.289 --> 00:57:33.769
also you can also see that he does not have much

00:57:33.769 --> 00:57:36.329
self -control, that he has this maybe a temper

00:57:36.329 --> 00:57:38.130
issue, an anger issue or something where the

00:57:38.130 --> 00:57:41.010
moment he's triggered or his authority is put

00:57:41.010 --> 00:57:43.150
into question, that will come into play. And

00:57:43.150 --> 00:57:45.039
we see that with the scene where he's like. You

00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:47.619
know, throwing his balcony. Raising his balcony.

00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:52.179
His daughter off the balcony railing. And then

00:57:52.179 --> 00:57:54.320
the moment when Rekha's trying to leave as well.

00:57:54.380 --> 00:57:56.280
And you know for a fact that he's not going to

00:57:56.280 --> 00:57:58.519
let that happen. That it's going to get aggressive.

00:57:58.780 --> 00:58:00.940
And that's the moment that Chaipu comes in and

00:58:00.940 --> 00:58:04.559
stabs him. So it's a very nuanced character.

00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:07.159
But he's a well -renowned actor. He's a very

00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:09.739
famous actor in Bollywood. A bit controversial

00:58:09.739 --> 00:58:12.119
too. Maybe Kimmy wants to speak about this a

00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:15.610
bit. you know he got metooed uh by one one of

00:58:15.610 --> 00:58:18.969
the actor she's like they had like a kind of

00:58:18.969 --> 00:58:21.530
a item number dance like no like a sexy dance

00:58:21.530 --> 00:58:24.510
and then he was asking her to do certain moves

00:58:24.510 --> 00:58:27.030
and she was not comfortable he was pressurizing

00:58:27.030 --> 00:58:29.730
her and like there are other other story i am

00:58:29.730 --> 00:58:31.590
not going into detail but like method acting

00:58:31.590 --> 00:58:36.360
to play back yeah so So he had that allegation

00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:39.320
from her. But he's too powerful. I don't think

00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:42.260
many people came in support with her. In her.

00:58:42.420 --> 00:58:45.179
So whatever. I mean regardless of like that.

00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:46.920
I mean that sucks that that's the case. But as

00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:49.400
an actor. I thought he was just phenomenal. Yeah.

00:58:49.460 --> 00:58:51.320
He's a good actor. All of them were. Like Krishna

00:58:51.320 --> 00:58:53.900
as well. Like the kid Chaipu. I feel like for

00:58:53.900 --> 00:58:56.320
someone who doesn't come from an acting background.

00:58:56.420 --> 00:58:58.059
Or anything like that. And maybe it's because

00:58:58.059 --> 00:58:59.780
he's also playing some of his lived experiences.

00:59:00.019 --> 00:59:02.099
So it's more performative acting. Like you guys

00:59:02.099 --> 00:59:04.760
pointed out. That final scene when he just breaks

00:59:04.760 --> 00:59:07.940
down crying. There's so much power in that in

00:59:07.940 --> 00:59:10.360
the sense that you see his emotions evolve throughout

00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:12.860
the film as well. From survival mode to a child

00:59:12.860 --> 00:59:15.699
to adult. This is the first time he cries, right?

00:59:15.860 --> 00:59:16.960
That's the first time. And you know, throughout

00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:19.000
the film, he's very emotionally put together,

00:59:19.139 --> 00:59:20.579
right? He's a street kid. He's learned how to

00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:24.269
survive. He knows how to navigate people. Like

00:59:24.269 --> 00:59:26.329
there is a level of tolerance that he has probably

00:59:26.329 --> 00:59:28.630
built. But that end scene, I think, is so powerful

00:59:28.630 --> 00:59:30.949
just because you kind of see all of that facade

00:59:30.949 --> 00:59:33.409
come crashing down. And behind it is just an

00:59:33.409 --> 00:59:35.949
innocent little kid who never got to experience

00:59:35.949 --> 00:59:38.269
childhood. Should we talk about the letter writing?

00:59:38.690 --> 00:59:41.889
Yeah. What letter writing? When he wants to send

00:59:41.889 --> 00:59:43.610
the letter to his mom. Oh, that's the scene with

00:59:43.610 --> 00:59:47.190
Irfan Khan? Yeah. So Irfan Khan was brought into

00:59:47.190 --> 00:59:49.110
the project. He was working with the kids in

00:59:49.110 --> 00:59:51.130
the acting workshop. And he was supposed to be

00:59:51.130 --> 00:59:55.329
in the film. But his role was dropped because

00:59:55.329 --> 00:59:57.650
he was supposed to be one of the street kids

00:59:57.650 --> 01:00:02.449
who grew up and was living around there. Irfan

01:00:02.449 --> 01:00:05.769
was a street kid? No, no, no. His character would

01:00:05.769 --> 01:00:08.010
have been like a street kid who grew up. But

01:00:08.010 --> 01:00:11.510
the director said that he was like almost six

01:00:11.510 --> 01:00:13.869
feet tall. And these people were all like standard

01:00:13.869 --> 01:00:16.510
development. I mean, a street kid with the malnutrition

01:00:16.510 --> 01:00:19.150
they grew up in, they cannot reach the height

01:00:19.150 --> 01:00:22.429
of six feet. So his role was kind of canceled.

01:00:22.530 --> 01:00:26.309
And at that point, he was not an on -screen actor.

01:00:26.389 --> 01:00:28.409
This was his first on -screen appearance. But

01:00:28.409 --> 01:00:31.929
like we know later on, like what a huge, amazing

01:00:31.929 --> 01:00:34.650
actor he turns out to be in Bollywood. And even

01:00:34.650 --> 01:00:38.150
he went on in Hollywood, worked in Life of Pi.

01:00:38.829 --> 01:00:41.949
And stuff like that. So he's, he did that. That

01:00:41.949 --> 01:00:44.929
was the scene. And then he's writing later. Yeah.

01:00:45.110 --> 01:00:47.590
Yeah. I mean, basically Krishna goes to this

01:00:47.590 --> 01:00:49.469
guy. He wants to send a letter home. He's never

01:00:49.469 --> 01:00:51.670
talked to home since he's left. He just wants

01:00:51.670 --> 01:00:53.269
to say like, Hey, I'm alive and I'm going to

01:00:53.269 --> 01:00:55.050
come back with the money soon. I left the circus.

01:00:55.929 --> 01:00:58.849
A couple of things that are just, the scene was

01:00:58.849 --> 01:01:01.489
super profound for me because a couple of things

01:01:01.489 --> 01:01:04.130
was like, number one, just the system of like

01:01:04.130 --> 01:01:06.250
how to communicate back home. Yeah. I didn't

01:01:06.250 --> 01:01:08.760
even think about that. Like the kid can't. read

01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:10.960
he can't write so yeah you have to pay someone

01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.920
to like transcribe your message and they ask

01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:16.800
for his address and he has no idea he has no

01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:20.460
idea like where his city is like or what the

01:01:20.460 --> 01:01:23.840
number of his address is and so they kind of

01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:26.000
just junk the letter because they're like this

01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:27.619
there's no point it's not going to go anywhere

01:01:27.619 --> 01:01:30.300
and then the other the real heart -wrenching

01:01:30.300 --> 01:01:32.179
thing was he wanted to add a line that said like

01:01:32.179 --> 01:01:34.820
i love you and i still miss you yeah but it was

01:01:34.820 --> 01:01:38.869
going to cost like two you know half a cent more

01:01:38.869 --> 01:01:42.150
yeah and he couldn't afford it it's again like

01:01:42.150 --> 01:01:44.030
just constantly running into material conditions

01:01:44.030 --> 01:01:46.329
where he can't even like communicate because

01:01:46.329 --> 01:01:48.710
he just doesn't have the money and there is just

01:01:48.710 --> 01:01:51.230
no way to get it and just how constrained you

01:01:51.230 --> 01:01:54.849
are and then it's just so like sad because that

01:01:54.849 --> 01:01:57.190
yeah the letter gets tossed it goes nowhere and

01:01:57.190 --> 01:02:01.510
you just see like the hopelessness of the situation

01:02:01.510 --> 01:02:04.449
and and it's very like it was very profound for

01:02:04.449 --> 01:02:08.070
me yeah that scene was like really like when

01:02:08.070 --> 01:02:10.369
he's like almost on verge of tears i still miss

01:02:10.369 --> 01:02:13.250
you mom when i go back to sleep and then this

01:02:13.250 --> 01:02:17.210
guy is like it's like you have to pay extra for

01:02:17.210 --> 01:02:19.969
that like and then he's like okay no let's go

01:02:19.969 --> 01:02:24.710
yeah i was like oh that was very sad this movie

01:02:24.710 --> 01:02:26.730
is kind of compared a lot to slumdog millionaire

01:02:26.730 --> 01:02:29.530
which i think is a good comparison because it

01:02:29.530 --> 01:02:31.980
is the direct opposite It was like a film for

01:02:31.980 --> 01:02:34.139
Western audiences. It's kind of about the slums.

01:02:34.219 --> 01:02:37.340
There is a happy ending. They give you all that.

01:02:37.659 --> 01:02:40.400
And that is way more poverty poor than this movie

01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:46.340
is. And I think it takes way more advantage of

01:02:46.340 --> 01:02:49.840
that situation for its own movie telling point.

01:02:50.420 --> 01:02:53.659
And I think if you have any complaints about

01:02:53.659 --> 01:02:55.760
this movie, you kind of look at Slumdog Millionaire

01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:57.760
as its opposite. And I'd much prefer this type

01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:00.019
of film than Slumdog. When we were watching the

01:03:00.019 --> 01:03:03.239
interview, that Kelly showed us, and I'll link

01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:06.639
to it actually in the description. She says in

01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:08.760
the crowd, she says the actor that played Krishna

01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:12.860
was 15 years old, the same age as her son, watching

01:03:12.860 --> 01:03:15.920
the interview. So Zoran Mamdani was in the crowd

01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:19.780
in that interview at 15. And I think that that

01:03:19.780 --> 01:03:23.119
is a nice little tie -in to like, why do you

01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:25.019
make these movies? Is because, well, what do

01:03:25.019 --> 01:03:26.599
you do with that information after the fact?

01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.119
And if she's able to produce people, you know,

01:03:29.139 --> 01:03:31.679
like her son or other people that then want to

01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:34.039
go and make material changes to those realities

01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:37.179
because they feel sympathy or empathy for those

01:03:37.179 --> 01:03:39.639
in that situation, that is great. That is the

01:03:39.639 --> 01:03:41.099
point. That's what she wanted to do. And she

01:03:41.099 --> 01:03:43.059
did it with her own son. I think that's really

01:03:43.059 --> 01:03:47.300
cool. Like she sees how bad these conditions

01:03:47.300 --> 01:03:50.980
can be. And so did her son. And he's doing something

01:03:50.980 --> 01:03:53.619
about it. And I think that's quite cool that

01:03:53.619 --> 01:03:55.719
that. type of political action can come from

01:03:55.719 --> 01:04:00.539
that art like literally yeah yeah cool uh yeah

01:04:00.539 --> 01:04:02.639
i loved it i don't know uh i highly recommend

01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:05.340
it i thought it was just fantastic uh i don't

01:04:05.340 --> 01:04:08.179
think it's too much of a bummer but definitely

01:04:08.179 --> 01:04:10.440
you know prepare yourself yeah yeah i don't think

01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:13.079
the heavy film we were very well we were going

01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:16.039
to watch the film we're very light -hearted and

01:04:16.039 --> 01:04:18.619
like you know having fun and like you know like

01:04:18.619 --> 01:04:21.539
and then like yeah talking about like things

01:04:21.539 --> 01:04:24.599
and so suddenly and then went in and didn't know

01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:27.440
like how grave the film was and then like we're

01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:29.360
taken aback by the seriousness what keeps you

01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:31.820
off the instant he gets hit by the circus manager

01:04:31.820 --> 01:04:35.599
in the first one minute of the film yeah it's

01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:37.719
totally like go get beans or something like yeah

01:04:37.719 --> 01:04:40.980
it starts off like pretty grim the drugs they

01:04:40.980 --> 01:04:43.090
don't drugs like yeah I don't think we can really

01:04:43.090 --> 01:04:45.429
use our scale for this movie. It does not really

01:04:45.429 --> 01:04:47.989
follow any of the Bollywood norms that we've

01:04:47.989 --> 01:04:50.630
become accustomed to. No dance numbers or anything

01:04:50.630 --> 01:04:52.369
of that sort. There is dance numbers. Well, yeah.

01:04:52.510 --> 01:04:55.250
Formally around the children having fun. Regional

01:04:55.250 --> 01:04:57.690
heat check. One hundo. I thought the movie was

01:04:57.690 --> 01:05:03.230
pretty real. Family feud. Yeah, of course. Yeah,

01:05:03.369 --> 01:05:06.389
plenty. Warm throughout. I highly recommend.

01:05:07.349 --> 01:05:10.329
And yeah. Thank you, Kelly, actually, for turning

01:05:10.329 --> 01:05:13.170
us on to this film. This was great. So yeah,

01:05:13.210 --> 01:05:19.090
I'll see you guys later, physically. Bye! Bye

01:05:19.090 --> 01:05:19.329
-bye.